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Hi everybody, it's Susie singer Carter and I just wanted to take

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1:15

people and I thank you so much.

1:27

When the world has gotten down,

1:30

and Alzheimer's

1:30

sucks, it's an equal opportunity

1:33

disease that chips away at

1:33

everything we hold dear. And to

1:37

date, there's no cure. So until

1:37

there is we continue to fight

1:41

with the most powerful tool in

1:41

our arsenal. Love. This is love

1:46

conquers all is a real and

1:46

really positive podcast that

1:50

takes a deep dive into

1:50

everything. Alzheimer's, The

1:53

Good, the Bad, and everything in

1:53

between. And now here are your

1:58

hosts Susie singer Carter and

1:58

me, Don priests.

2:06

Hello,

2:06

everybody. This is Susie singer

2:09

Carter.

2:10

And I'm Don priests

2:10

and this is love conquers all.

2:13

Hello, Susan.

2:14

Hi, Donald.

2:14

What's up? What's going on?

2:18

Well, ah, let's see. Well, I

2:18

spent the weekend with my two

2:25

little grandbabies. And I'm

2:25

tired.

2:29

They're little and

2:29

they're energetic. And one of

2:33

them's three and the other ones

2:33

eight months. And oh, my

2:38

goodness,

2:39

they're so

2:39

cute. I'll picture up. I'll put

2:42

a picture up in the edits.

2:42

Because you know, why we gotta

2:46

do? No reason you

2:46

wouldn't. Right. But yeah, they

2:52

are chock full of energy. And

2:52

yeah. And yeah, so you had the

2:58

three year old for two days is that

3:00

I did, I

3:00

did. And we got to the park. And

3:02

you know, I just want to say,

3:02

I'm trying to get fit again.

3:08

Because I've been, you know,

3:08

working so much and I forget

3:11

that I'm when when you're

3:11

writing or if you're editing you

3:14

it's like you're in a time warp.

3:14

There's something weird that

3:17

happens like you start at nine

3:17

in the morning, and then you

3:19

look up and you go, No, it's not

3:19

four in the afternoon. And it is

3:23

and I've been sitting at my desk

3:23

so I started running. And I I've

3:29

been running between like six to

3:29

eight miles each time. That's

3:33

freaking good. It's too

3:35

much. It's too much

3:35

for me. makes me tired. You

3:40

know, it actually burns

3:40

calories. Just as think about

3:44

it. It burns calories so

3:46

well. It

3:46

hurts my feet. Does anybody have

3:48

any suggestions? My feet hurt. I

3:48

got news. I have ones helping.

3:52

What Don't run. Don't run.

3:56

Fine. I'm

3:56

getting like midlife belly but I

3:59

don't know where it's coming from.

4:01

But are you showing

4:01

your midlife belt? I'm

4:03

trying to show my midlife belly there's Why do

4:06

you think I wear

4:06

black? I've had midlife belly

4:09

for like 10 years and yeah, and

4:09

I don't even run so I guess

4:17

we're even I don't even have

4:19

because you

4:19

eat like you eat like Jethro and

4:22

I eat like a bird and it's still

4:22

happening and I'm running eight

4:25

miles and it's still it's not

4:25

happening so I need I need

4:29

advice I need I need diet advice

4:29

you guys I don't

4:32

know she's

4:32

considering does she fast anyone

4:35

know about fasting does Yeah.

4:35

Can you tell us about that? I

4:38

don't know about that. My I

4:38

consider a fast one hour of

4:42

naughty

4:46

That's

4:46

right. And here's the thing, you

4:48

know, I don't know if it's all

4:48

midlife. I do think and let's

4:51

get to the caregiver part. Like

4:51

the past year. I've been under a

4:56

lot of stress. And so

4:59

which kid call cause

4:59

that type of thing that causes

5:03

that. That's what is the it's

5:03

called the here somebody out

5:07

there is going DOI. It's the

5:10

it's

5:10

cortisol Don da it is.

5:13

I was gonna say

5:13

that. I didn't

5:16

read she

5:16

didn't. So, okay. Okay, Pierre.

5:20

Okay. I'll be transparent. I did

5:20

stop the recording and look it

5:24

up.

5:25

Look it up. I was

5:25

gonna say, you know thou good.

5:30

Paul says, Yeah, great. I know.

5:33

Yeah, from

5:33

my Google on my phone. Anyway,

5:36

my cortisol level is raging and

5:36

has been raging. So I think and

5:40

apparently that makes you and

5:40

then lack of sleep also can add

5:44

the poundage on?

5:45

Yeah, so it's

5:45

stress, lack of sleep, sitting

5:49

at your desk for eight to 10

5:49

hours without standing up. These

5:54

are all, you know, I mean,

5:54

they're they're elements that

5:57

could cause and is absolutely

5:57

causing what's going on right

6:01

now? Because there's no other

6:01

there's no other answer. Why

6:03

are you 15?

6:03

Are you saying that you just

6:06

said it? He just said no.

6:08

I said, No. I said,

6:08

What's happening right now? Oh,

6:12

no, I shouldn't use air quotes

6:12

is that I'm not allowed to use

6:15

air quotes. Correct? No. Okay. I

6:15

will not use any air quotes in

6:19

this episode. I promise. No

6:19

more.

6:21

I can't

6:21

show below my waist. There's a

6:24

tiny bit of crap happening. I

6:24

like my body. I'm fine. I'm

6:28

positive.

6:29

I know how many

6:29

people are going Shut up. You

6:32

know, people are out there going Shut up.

6:34

No, I Oh,

6:34

that's yeah. I get it. But

6:39

here's the thing when you have

6:39

like certain size clothes, and

6:41

all your clothes are that size,

6:41

and suddenly it doesn't fit

6:45

becomes very expensive.

6:47

And well, that's why

6:47

I give you all my old jeans. So

6:50

you do I like

6:51

Don's old

6:51

jeans. I I rip them up and I

6:53

make them look cool. Anyway, we

6:53

digress.

6:57

Where are we? Well,

6:59

I'm trying

6:59

to make things light because

7:02

we're the topic we're going to

7:02

talk about today's a little bit

7:05

heavy. Well, but yeah, that's

7:05

okay. It's okay. Sometimes we

7:09

have to hear the bad so we can

7:09

get to the good. We have to go

7:12

through the weeds so we can get

7:12

to the flowers. Look at that.

7:16

Absolutely. Wow.

7:16

And, and our guests is like a

7:19

gardener a gardener who gets us

7:19

through those weeds. To the

7:23

flowers.

7:24

She's right. She's amazing. She's from Australia and my love her

7:26

accent. And she's beautiful girl

7:31

woman I should say. And

7:31

beautiful inside and out. i We

7:37

interviewed her for No Country

7:37

for Old people. And I was like,

7:41

Oh my God. Our audience on love

7:41

conquers all is going to love

7:44

you because she's an expert in

7:44

dementia, Dawn, and also works

7:51

for the adult protection

7:51

services, which I had no idea

7:55

what they did. So it's gonna be

7:55

this is going to be a great

7:59

show. Yay.

8:00

Indeed. I'll tell

8:00

you all about are you ready?

8:02

Yeah. With over 20 years of

8:02

international experience,

8:07

Bettina Morrow, started her

8:07

career in her home country of

8:10

Australia before moving to the

8:10

UK. There she practiced social

8:13

work for nine years, eventually

8:13

leading to her move to the

8:16

United States. Bettina has spent

8:16

the last 15 years working with

8:20

at risk and vulnerable adults

8:20

with specific expertise in elder

8:24

abuse, dementia and

8:24

guardianship. She has obtained a

8:27

Bachelor of Social Work and a

8:27

master's in dementia is a

8:30

nationally certified guardian

8:30

and has presented at state and

8:34

national conferences. We are

8:34

absolutely thrilled to have her

8:37

here today. So let's not wait

8:37

another moment and say hello to

8:40

Bettina Morrow. Hello, Bettina.

8:43

And good afternoon. Hi.

8:45

So happy to

8:45

have you on this show. And like

8:49

I we interviewed you for the

8:49

documentary, and I realized

8:54

you're you're just an amazing

8:54

resource for this show. Because

9:01

of all that you're doing in the

9:01

dementia arena and and which is

9:05

really rare. So, so happy to

9:05

have you.

9:11

Thanks for having me.

9:11

Very excited to be asked. So

9:14

it's definitely my pleasure to be

9:16

Oh, good.

9:16

Good. And we like your accent so

9:18

there's a bonus a bonus accent

9:18

you guys. Yeah. So So Don

9:26

introduced you and I think you

9:26

know I'm just in like I said in

9:30

our interview for No Country for

9:30

Old people. It's amazing to me

9:36

that there are so few if any, I

9:36

don't think I've met anyone

9:40

other than in our community

9:40

outside of any facilities that

9:44

are actually are have studied

9:44

and are really have a focus in

9:48

dementia and our hands on which

9:48

you have done and and I think

9:54

that's it's a good I can't

9:54

believe that you are the unicorn

9:58

in this in this I mean it every,

9:58

almost everybody, how many

10:02

people do you reckon in your

10:02

studies end up with some form of

10:07

dementia or Alzheimer's?

10:10

Actually the most the

10:10

largest population group of at

10:14

risk adults that we work with

10:14

have a form of dementia,

10:17

Alzheimer's. So I would say that

10:17

the way that we measure the

10:22

data, though, has different

10:22

elements. At the intake phase,

10:26

we have over 30%. But I would

10:26

say that that number is

10:30

increasingly much, much higher,

10:30

because what we often find is we

10:34

go out to meet people, and

10:34

they've clearly got actually

10:37

cognitive deficits that we can

10:37

identify based on our training

10:41

and our skills. So I would say

10:41

it's well in excess of like,

10:45

half of who we interact with

10:45

have a cognitive deficits.

10:50

See, that

10:50

just blows my mind. Because you

10:53

think you figured that people

10:53

that are in this industry, and

10:56

they've made it their career

10:56

choice and their business choice

10:59

to, to take care of people in

10:59

this in this population in this

11:04

demographic? Who, who, like you

11:04

said, have a really high

11:08

percentage, somewhere between 30

11:08

to 40%, maybe more, and that

11:13

they absolutely know, zero,

11:13

about the disease and the

11:18

progression, and how it

11:18

manifests and how it presents.

11:22

And so, you know, well, so what,

11:22

what made you well, let's talk

11:29

about you first, like what made

11:29

you choose this focus for your

11:34

for your career?

11:35

Yeah, I my career

11:35

actually started working with

11:38

children. But after about 11

11:38

years of working with children,

11:43

I had the opportunity to

11:43

transition into to working with

11:47

adults in a hospital discharge

11:47

in an inner city, London

11:51

hospital. And I found that

11:51

literally, within my first week,

11:56

I was like, I love children, but

11:56

I love older adults, way more.

12:03

There was just like, there was

12:03

something about it. And as I was

12:07

going through my training

12:07

process to transition my skill

12:09

set, specifically around risk

12:09

assessment into the adult world,

12:14

I really honed in on dementia,

12:14

because that was a big part of

12:17

our population group and people

12:17

who had experienced strokes, and

12:21

was fascinated fascinated by

12:21

everything that came with

12:24

dementia, especially the

12:24

neurobiology side of it. And

12:27

then how are we as a hospital

12:27

treating and caring for people

12:31

with dementia specific to their

12:31

needs, and not just as a

12:34

patient. So my my love and my

12:34

passion and interest really

12:39

developed way back in 2009. And

12:39

I've really incited dedicate

12:44

myself really to the adult

12:44

protection Adult Safeguarding

12:48

arena, and really emphasize that

12:48

with the dementia population,

12:53

because what we know is people

12:53

who are at risk of elder abuse,

12:58

one of the single largest risk

12:58

factors is having a cognitive

13:02

deficit. So as the years

13:02

progress, and I furthered my

13:05

studies, I eventually led myself

13:05

into the direction of

13:09

undertaking a master's in

13:09

dementia through the University

13:12

of Tasmania in Australia, which

13:12

is an incredibly unique Master's

13:17

it is, as far as I'm aware, the

13:17

only university in the world

13:22

that offers a master's program

13:22

that is just on dementia, it's

13:26

not Gerontology it is just on

13:26

dementia. So you have four

13:30

components that you focus on

13:30

being health and social welfare

13:34

and cap, policy and policies

13:34

International. So it's not just

13:38

focus on Australian policy, it

13:38

is international policy on

13:41

dementia, neurobiology, that was

13:41

definitely something I had to

13:45

knuckle down on. And public

13:45

health, which was interesting,

13:50

because I was studying also at

13:50

the time that COVID swept around

13:53

the globe. So amazing

13:53

opportunity, incredible

13:58

university that not only offers

13:58

this level of study, but also

14:02

offers free training

14:02

certificates to anybody. Their

14:06

commitment to educating people

14:06

on dementia is so external. And

14:11

so far from just making any

14:11

levels of money from tuition.

14:14

They offer this course to

14:14

anybody around the world. And it

14:17

has gained incredible success

14:17

and notoriety and how beneficial

14:22

that actually has been to

14:22

professionals and to families

14:25

who can sit at home at you know,

14:25

12 o'clock at night because

14:29

that's when they're actually out

14:29

and actually like learn what is

14:31

happening to their loved ones.

14:31

It's an incredible, they call it

14:34

a MOOC. It's a massive online

14:34

open course. I highly recommend

14:38

it to anyone. All of my new

14:38

staff are required to undertake

14:41

the MOOCs as part of their

14:41

orientation to their employment

14:44

with me.

14:46

Good Good

14:46

on you. So as far as to when you

14:52

say my staff, what is your

14:52

company? What do you say your

14:55

steps? Yeah.

14:57

I said I work for a

14:57

local county government. and I

15:00

oversee a team of investigators

15:00

I work in within adult

15:03

protection services in Colorado.

15:03

So we investigate allegations of

15:08

abuse, neglect exploitation for

15:08

at risk adults, and our largest

15:13

population is older adults. But

15:13

we also include people who have

15:17

intellectual and developmental

15:17

disabilities. But our largest

15:20

group is definitely

15:20

investigating whether there's

15:22

been abuse of some description

15:22

to an older adult in the

15:25

community, as well as in

15:25

facilities. So we cover

15:28

facilities as well in the state

15:28

of Colorado.

15:31

And what led you to

15:31

that section of you know, the,

15:35

was there an experience that you

15:35

had? Was it just hearing what

15:38

was going on what led to that?

15:38

Yeah, that's

15:41

actually an interesting

15:41

sort of historical component.

15:44

When I, when I transitioned from

15:44

children into adults. In within

15:48

this hospital in London, they

15:48

were just introducing

15:52

safeguarding adults, which is

15:52

the same as federal protection,

15:55

it was just being formalized and

15:55

introduced into their system.

16:00

And at that time, my staff that

16:00

I had in London, their whole

16:04

role was about discharge

16:04

planning, they had no training,

16:08

or education on risk assessments

16:08

and how to undertake any sort of

16:12

investigation. So I was in a

16:12

really unique position that I

16:15

could take all of my historical

16:15

child protection, risk

16:19

assessment, forensic

16:19

interviewing skills, and adapt

16:22

it to the adult sector that we

16:22

were working with. So I then

16:26

started to produce a lot of the

16:26

trainings for all of the staff

16:29

to help them navigate these new

16:29

policies and procedures of

16:33

safeguarding adults within the

16:33

London system. And from there, I

16:36

became the Adult Safeguarding

16:36

manager that oversaw the service

16:40

within for that particular team

16:40

within the hospital. And then 10

16:46

years ago, I moved to the United

16:46

States. And they, you know, in

16:51

the States, we have a very well

16:51

structured adult protection

16:54

services across the country. And

16:54

so when I was looking for jobs,

16:58

there was a position right

16:58

there. And I was like, that's

17:01

my, I'm going for it. It's my

17:01

position, and it's got my name

17:04

on it. And I was very lucky. And

17:04

I'm sure enough, I got the job.

17:08

I'm so glad

17:08

you did. And you answered one of

17:11

my questions. I was gonna say in

17:11

terms of adult protection

17:13

services, which I don't think

17:13

any of us really know what they

17:17

do. And you know, first of all,

17:17

it is state by state. Correct.

17:22

But there are guidelines from

17:22

the federal government that says

17:26

here's because it is. It's

17:26

financed. It's, it's paid for

17:30

through through taxpayer. Right.

17:32

Yeah, but not through

17:32

the federal government. So we

17:35

are working on that. So you're

17:35

right. So it is state by state.

17:40

There's there's some guidelines

17:40

at the federal level from some

17:44

associations, but there's no

17:44

regulations that come down from

17:48

the federal government, because we don't have any federal funding. So each state has to

17:50

fund their own program, through

17:55

whatever measures they've

17:55

actually determined internally.

17:59

So there is currently actually a

17:59

process it's undergoing to look

18:03

at federal guidelines being

18:03

implemented for adult

18:05

protection, and how do we look

18:05

at uniting across the country,

18:09

some of the larger beliefs and

18:09

practices that underpin all of

18:13

our practices across the country?

18:15

Right. So

18:15

who does fund the programs? Are

18:19

there?

18:20

It is, it is taxpayers.

18:20

So it's taxpayers dollars

18:24

through the state

18:24

level

18:24

through the state level? So all

18:28

right, so here's the here's the

18:28

the crappy question, and that

18:31

is, how much how much power do

18:31

you have as as an adult

18:37

protection service agent? You

18:37

know, when if, if we're, if I'm

18:42

to call you up and say, my mom

18:42

is being neglected and abused,

18:47

and here's where, what, what

18:47

would be the next steps taken

18:51

and how, and with all due

18:51

respect, and I mean, like 1000

18:56

pounds of respect for you. It's

18:56

like, I know, what, what goes on

19:01

out there in these programs, and

19:01

you know, especially state to

19:04

state and when they're not

19:04

really highly regulated. That

19:08

also means they're not highly

19:12

enforced. enforced.

19:12

Yeah.

19:14

Yeah.

19:15

Yeah. And you know,

19:15

there is actually the risk of

19:19

some elements of not being

19:19

enforced. So quick summary, a

19:23

referral come in, we have

19:23

hotlines referral can come into

19:26

our hotline. We gather specific

19:26

information that helps us

19:30

determine per legislation and

19:30

our rule and our policies, what

19:33

the guidelines are that we're

19:33

looking for. If it meets those

19:36

criterias, we will undertake an

19:36

investigation, where we

19:40

interview that client collateral

19:40

contacts, their power of

19:44

attorneys, family members, we

19:44

work with police, if it's

19:47

appropriate if we've got a very

19:47

identified clean criminal

19:51

activity that's occurring. Our

19:51

first and foremost is to

19:54

mitigate risk to improve safety

19:54

and mitigate risk. That's our

19:57

first and foremost. From there

19:57

we do case plants to see how we

20:00

can better support the at risk

20:00

adult to lead a healthier, safer

20:05

life, predominantly to age well

20:05

in the community. And as part of

20:10

that process in the state of

20:10

Colorado, and this is different

20:14

across all the states, we do

20:14

actually have findings. So we

20:18

conclude our investigation per

20:18

finding and determine whether

20:21

the finding has actually

20:21

occurred. So it can either be

20:25

substantiated, inconclusive or

20:25

unsubstantiated. And that is

20:28

against who the person is that's

20:28

been identified as the alleged

20:31

perpetrator. And so an alleged

20:31

perpetrator can be anybody, it

20:36

can be a family member, it can

20:36

be a neighbor, it can be a con

20:39

artist, it can be a

20:39

professional, professional

20:42

guardian, a professional nursing

20:42

home staff member, it can be

20:45

anybody. Their names can be

20:45

placed on a list within Colorado

20:51

that then is legally required by

20:51

certain employees to check to

20:55

determine if they have been

20:55

substantiated as causing harm to

20:58

an at risk at all. The goal is

20:58

to reduce the number of

21:04

specifically professionals that

21:04

bounce between employments and

21:09

continue to cause harm to at

21:09

risk adults and vulnerable

21:12

people. A real specific area

21:12

that is to really look at the

21:17

nursing home, industry, and the

21:17

it because they're so grossly

21:21

understaffed. And it's so easily

21:21

to just jump between nursing

21:25

homes and never be trapped for

21:25

the abuse or the exploitation

21:28

that they may actually be

21:28

causing to at risk adults,

21:31

especially for people with

21:31

dementia, who maybe aren't able

21:35

to advocate for themselves

21:35

clearly, to say, I am being

21:39

harmed, I'm being physically

21:39

hurt, I'm being neglected,

21:42

they're stealing money from my

21:42

drawer being the most popular

21:46

vulnerability. So that's a quick

21:46

synopsis. So in some ways we do

21:51

because we can put people's

21:51

names on the registry, which can

21:55

impact their employment, their

21:55

future employment, we work very

21:59

strongly with the law

21:59

enforcement departments to

22:02

really push for criminal

22:02

prosecutions. In going through

22:08

the justice system, we really

22:08

believe that to make progress in

22:11

this area, people have to be

22:11

held accountable. And if they're

22:14

not shown that there are

22:14

consequences, people will

22:17

continue to do it. There are

22:17

limitations, though, fully

22:21

recognize there are limitations

22:21

in what we can and can't do,

22:25

which are incredibly frustrating

22:25

at times.

22:27

Do you oversee the

22:27

the system though, meaning that

22:32

if it's a systematic problem

22:32

within a nursing home, where

22:34

it's just you know, from the top

22:34

down, that you're talking about

22:38

the individual, but when it's

22:38

the practice,

22:41

right, that

22:41

was gonna be my God at all?

22:43

Yeah, well, yeah, you have if

22:43

you're, if you're, if you're

22:47

indicting, you know, a CNA or,

22:47

you know, whatever, the director

22:53

of nursing, you know, that's an

22:53

employee of, and so, what,

23:00

sometimes, obviously, there's,

23:00

there's bad people out there,

23:04

just individuals who are awful

23:04

and take

23:08

Bravo for you, after

23:08

them,

23:11

for sure,

23:11

for sure. But a lot of the

23:14

neglect comes from the top down.

23:14

Huge, huge amount. So in which

23:19

what you mentioned understaffing

23:19

so what kept let's talk about

23:23

those cases, because those are

23:23

the most those are the most

23:29

under the radar, those are the

23:29

things that are under the radar.

23:31

And everyone thinks, well, they

23:31

don't understand that this this

23:35

is this is the norm. This is the

23:35

standard, folks.

23:38

Right? Yeah. And I'm

23:38

not going to tell you, Susie, I

23:41

know anything new when you hear

23:41

the statistic that 70% of

23:45

nursing homes across the United

23:45

States are actually privately

23:48

owned. That is the business of

23:48

providing care to older adults

23:54

in a residential care setting is

23:54

big business. There is a lot of

23:59

money, it is millions and

23:59

millions and millions of dollars

24:02

of profit that is made off the

24:02

back of very vulnerable people.

24:07

The systematic issues of

24:07

understaffing, there is so much

24:11

research and it's not even just

24:11

the United States. There's

24:13

actually international research

24:13

that shows how regularly for

24:17

profit facilities will

24:17

intentionally under staff to

24:22

increase their profit margin.

24:22

And not only will they

24:25

intentionally understaffed, they

24:25

will not employ the right

24:29

educational and training levels.

24:29

So instead of having a

24:33

population group that needs

24:33

three nurses and 10 CNAs, they

24:38

will intentionally employ one

24:38

nurse and five CNAs. So that's

24:44

understaffed, and it's a

24:44

complete deficit in the actual

24:48

skill and training of those that

24:48

are physically there. That is

24:51

definitely something we see. We

24:51

have investigated that within my

24:56

budget killer service, the

24:56

further out remit can go is that

25:01

we can actually hold

25:01

administrators and directors

25:03

responsible. I would say my team

25:03

is one of the few that will

25:09

actually go that far. I wouldn't

25:09

say that, even though it's

25:13

permissible, it's not maybe as

25:13

common practice. Our belief is

25:18

that you're being paid six

25:18

figures, your job is to be

25:22

responsible for the care of

25:22

everybody there, you may not

25:25

directly be actually providing

25:25

bathing, but the staffing is

25:30

your responsibility. And if you

25:30

knowingly, are aware that your

25:36

business, the home, whatever you

25:36

want to refer to, is

25:40

intentionally being

25:40

understaffed, you will be held

25:43

accountable. Because we have had

25:43

situations where people have

25:46

died, we're not just talking

25:46

about they didn't get their

25:49

meals on time, or they didn't

25:49

get the bath or the shower when

25:52

they wanted. We're talking about

25:52

abuse and neglect. That is so

25:57

serious and chronic, that people

25:57

haven't been bathed in a month,

26:01

that they have not received

26:01

their medications, that there is

26:04

nobody providing wound

26:04

management. We've had a

26:07

situation where somebody who had

26:07

zero qualifications or training

26:11

and wound management was

26:11

administering it. And we've had

26:15

people who have died, because

26:15

their wounds have become so

26:19

exacerbated. And then they're

26:19

developed sepsis, that the wound

26:22

is an open hole, you can see

26:22

down to the bone, that I realize

26:28

it's hard for it for people, the

26:28

general public who don't

26:30

visually see the forensic

26:30

photographs of what this looks

26:35

like. But it's horrifying. And

26:35

it's agonizing. It is absolutely

26:40

torturous to do this to anyone.

26:40

So we will go as far as them.

26:46

The part that we don't have the

26:46

power is we can't we don't we

26:49

can't supersede that. So the

26:49

actual management companies that

26:54

often enforce the reduced

26:54

staffing levels, we don't have

27:00

direct access to for

27:00

accountability. And I know, CZ,

27:06

in our previous conversation I

27:06

had shared with you a situation

27:10

we had investigated here, that

27:10

was incredibly serious. And we

27:14

were looking very closely at the

27:14

administrator. And the

27:18

administrator actually came back

27:18

to us, and not that this excuse

27:21

what happened, but was able to

27:21

show very clear evidence that

27:27

they had been communicating with

27:27

the management company about the

27:30

seriousness of the state of the

27:30

nursing home, and how

27:33

desperately he needed funds to

27:33

be released to get staff in

27:37

because of actually the rest of

27:37

residents and the management

27:40

company saying no. Like, yeah, I

27:40

mean, you couldn't get any

27:46

clearer

27:46

of get any

27:46

clearer than that. That's, it's

27:49

no, it's so heartbreaking. So I

27:49

get asked this, or I get told

27:54

this a lot from people as I'm,

27:54

as I'm trying, you know, raising

27:58

money and interviewing people

27:58

and keep trying to get this as

28:01

as public as possible this

28:01

problem, and I get, I get a lot

28:04

of like, yeah, there are bad

28:04

places, Suzy, but there's some

28:08

really great places. I mean, how

28:08

would you answer that if someone

28:14

said that to you?

28:16

And I'm sure they do. And,

28:19

and I would say, you

28:19

know, they're they're actually,

28:21

I would say that there actually

28:21

are a couple that I have

28:24

actually been somewhat surprised

28:24

about that actually have it's

28:28

like, goodness, like I turn up

28:28

unannounced and like, displaces,

28:33

like, they've got all the stuff

28:33

that they're supposed to have,

28:35

if not actually more at some

28:35

points. And like, why is it two

28:38

activities coordinators here

28:38

like it's like, and they're

28:41

actively doing, like, actively

28:41

engage, and they almost look

28:45

like they're enjoying

28:45

themselves, like as if this is

28:48

what they want to be doing. But

28:48

what I would say that it's not

28:54

just a few bad apples. This is a

28:54

chronic chronic issue that is

28:59

across the country. And in some

28:59

ways, I would almost compare it

29:04

to society's unwillingness or

29:04

inability to accept how serious

29:09

domestic violence is to accept

29:09

how serious and chronic child

29:12

abuses or sexual assault of

29:12

women, you just don't want to

29:16

actually acknowledge or maybe

29:16

fully understand how rampid some

29:20

of these issues are. And

29:20

unfortunately, the crisis we

29:24

have within nursing homes is

29:24

actually no different. It's not

29:27

just a couple of bad ones. It is

29:27

actually across the country, and

29:30

it needs such significant

29:30

attention to it. Right.

29:35

Like you're using

29:35

the bad apples as I mean, if

29:37

somebody gave you a basket full

29:37

of apples, and 95% of them were

29:42

rotting, and you say Oh, but

29:42

there's a couple of good ones

29:44

out there. Thank you. Seriously

29:44

I guess they're all good.

29:56

Don't

29:56

really it's like there's there's

29:58

a million people that are

29:58

hungry. But I found one apple.

30:02

That'll get it right.

30:05

I mean,

30:05

that's it. I also had somebody

30:08

write on my post. You know, I'm

30:08

all about I get that nursing

30:12

homes need some reform, and I'm

30:12

all about that. But you know,

30:16

what I'm not about is scaring

30:16

people? Well, I am people need

30:21

to be scared. I'm scared. What

30:21

do you think? I mean, don't you

30:24

think people need to, like you

30:24

said about the wound, what she

30:28

said it was exactly my mother's.

30:28

You know, that was her journey.

30:32

That's what happened to her. And

30:32

I saw that wound go down to the

30:35

bone. And I saw her be, you

30:35

know, no matter what, with me

30:39

advocating every day, I couldn't

30:39

get her to get the kind of care

30:44

needed

30:45

to record talking

30:45

directly to the doctor and them

30:47

saying, no, no, our will look

30:47

into it. We'll look into Yeah,

30:51

we'll look into it. Yeah. Which is basically no.

30:54

So I mean,

30:54

I don't want to scare people.

30:57

It's not like I get a thrill out

30:57

of it. I don't like scary

31:00

movies. It's not, it's not my

31:00

bag. But at some point, we all

31:03

have to put our big, big girl

31:03

big boy, big person pants on and

31:07

just go. This is the reality,

31:07

folks, do you agree?

31:11

Yeah, you know, it, it

31:11

is hugely complicated. And I get

31:16

this thing you don't, they don't

31:16

want to be scared. And I would

31:18

never want any family I'm

31:18

working with to be scared

31:20

either. But I think the part

31:20

that's really, really, actually

31:25

the most important part is that

31:25

people need to be informed. How

31:28

can you make a decision about

31:28

your loved one, if you are not

31:31

informed of the reality? It's no

31:31

different to if we go to our

31:35

doctor, and they suggest a

31:35

medical procedure? If we don't

31:38

know all the benefits in the

31:38

rears, how can we make an

31:41

informed decision about whether

31:41

that's in our best interests, or

31:44

for our child or a parent? And

31:44

nursing homes are much the same?

31:47

That? No, we don't want to scare

31:47

because we understand and

31:50

appreciate that there are many

31:50

people that can't continue to

31:53

provide the care in their

31:53

community homes. However, if we

31:58

don't actually address the

31:58

issue, all the people that don't

32:03

want to be scared, are going to

32:03

be horrified when they find that

32:07

it's them and their loved ones

32:07

if this is happening to. So I

32:12

mean, we don't want to scare

32:12

people. No, of course we don't.

32:14

But it's happening. It's

32:14

happening right now. It's

32:17

actually it's not like, Oh, it's

32:17

just bad luck. If it does

32:21

happen. People need to be

32:21

informed, if you are informed,

32:24

you can have a voice. And that

32:24

voice can be effective for

32:27

change. So that future people do

32:27

not have to be at risk of this

32:31

happening. We have to we have to

32:31

say to people, this is what's

32:35

happening behind closed doors,

32:35

you should be angry about it.

32:39

You should be demanding your

32:39

local your advocates, your

32:42

politicians, whoever it might be

32:42

your senators, that this will

32:46

not be tolerated. It's my

32:46

taxpayers money. Exactly. Pain,

32:51

to profit people who are

32:51

intentionally causing harm, and

32:55

distress and pain and death.

32:58

Exactly.

32:58

Okay. And I mean, even like, I

33:00

think about the me to movement,

33:00

or, or right to life, and all

33:04

those kinds of moves, you know,

33:04

movements were, you know,

33:07

growing up, you would see all

33:07

these movies about abortion, and

33:12

women, you know, giving

33:12

themselves self abortion,

33:14

because there was no place to

33:14

go. And it was against the law.

33:17

And and yeah, it's grotesque,

33:17

and it was awful. But those are

33:20

the kinds of those are the kinds

33:20

of scenarios that that impact so

33:24

that you go, because if you just

33:24

say, well, then women are going

33:28

to be, you know, trying to abort

33:28

themselves. That's very benign.

33:33

In this you know, what that

33:33

entails? Yeah. Right. And I

33:38

didn't know what a bedsore was,

33:38

I thought it was literally like

33:42

a red mark on somebody's soul, a

33:42

little sore, like you've been

33:45

leaning too long on your elbow.

33:45

That's it. Yeah. Who knows until

33:50

you know, so. And I also want to

33:50

talk about since you You're such

33:56

a, you're such a great resource

33:56

for both sides of this, you

34:03

know, because you have this,

34:03

this expertise on dementia, and

34:09

I want to talk about ableism

34:09

because it's rampid. And so you

34:13

talk about neglect and abuse for

34:13

people that are residents in a

34:17

in a nursing home situation or

34:17

long term care but then you add

34:20

on dementia and Alzheimer's and

34:20

you've got you know, the the

34:26

ability to neglect and abuse is

34:26

I'm sure double tripled

34:31

whatever. And within the

34:31

industry there, I'm sure you

34:36

come up against it with with

34:36

very naive people that don't

34:39

understand because I did like

34:39

what what can you speak to that?

34:45

Gosh, have we got long

34:45

enough? I, the most vulnerable

34:52

people that we have in nursing

34:52

homes. We've got the cognitive

34:57

decline. What many people don't

34:57

realize is that dementia is not

35:00

just about losing memory. It's

35:00

actually affecting your

35:04

executive functioning, your

35:04

decision making your safety

35:07

awareness and your

35:07

communication. Many people, if

35:11

not most, will lose their

35:11

ability to speak and form

35:15

sentences as the disease

35:15

progresses, so they're highly

35:18

vulnerable. With that we have

35:18

big issues of not just the risk

35:23

of abuse, but how very

35:23

undertrained and understaffed

35:28

facilities address and care for

35:28

people with dementia. So two big

35:32

areas we see us restraints,

35:32

physical restraints that are

35:36

imposed on people with dementia

35:36

and chemical restraints. So

35:39

physical being, they have them

35:39

to their position that they

35:42

can't get out of bed freely.

35:42

They have them situated in a

35:45

chair with a dinner table in

35:45

front of them knowing that they

35:49

can't physically move. We've

35:49

even had a case where staff

35:52

intentionally placed furniture

35:52

in front of their rooms, so they

35:56

couldn't even exit their room.

35:56

Chemical restraints is actually

36:00

even bigger issue for me,

36:00

because the amount of nursing

36:03

home residents who have a

36:03

diagnosis of dementia and are

36:06

being prescribed anti psychotic

36:06

medications is just horrifying.

36:11

anti psychotic medications is so

36:11

commonly used in people with

36:14

dementia, even though there is

36:14

hundreds and hundreds of

36:18

research papers that show the

36:18

efficacy of using them is about

36:24

this much. And the risk is

36:24

exponential. The risk of using

36:29

any psychotropic medications

36:29

increases fold, it increases the

36:32

risk of stroke, heart attack and

36:32

death. And they're more likely

36:36

to become more confused. Why

36:36

would we do that to anyone to

36:40

anybody? Why would they do that?

36:42

Because it's easier for them.

36:44

It's easier. Exactly.

36:44

And it's because of former

36:46

sedating, we just sedate. And

36:46

they use off label. I talked

36:52

recently in a different podcast

36:52

about a big an actual federal

36:56

review that was being undertaken

36:56

about the inappropriate use of

36:59

psychotropic medications on

36:59

nursing home residents with

37:02

dementia. And one of the

37:02

interesting things they found is

37:05

that throughout part of the

37:05

study, an overview was over a

37:08

period of time is that the

37:08

prescriptions of them actually

37:12

went down. But what happened was

37:12

it magically, a whole bunch of

37:18

older adults with dementia

37:18

suddenly had schizophrenia

37:21

listed on their face sheet on

37:21

their diagnosis sheet. Because

37:26

it's not recorded the same way.

37:26

prescribing said he psychotic or

37:30

psychotropic medication for

37:30

someone with schizophrenia is

37:33

not recorded the same way as it

37:33

is with dementia. So even though

37:37

there was zero symptoms, or

37:37

medical evidence to show why

37:41

they would suddenly have

37:41

schizophrenia, the dots were all

37:44

because it was a way of getting

37:44

around government oversight. And

37:48

it's largely Yeah, it's largely

37:48

because they don't know

37:51

actually, the skills and the

37:51

training of how to provide true

37:55

holistic person centered care.

37:55

That's nonpharmaceutical

37:58

nonpharmaceutical care held

37:58

basically zero risk to the

38:02

individual. Yeah. What, why

38:02

would we balance a zero risk

38:06

with death?

38:08

So I know,

38:08

I and you talked about it. And

38:12

my mom was a victim of Depakote.

38:12

So I know I know what it does to

38:16

people. And I didn't know she

38:16

was on it until it was a bit too

38:19

late when her regular doctor

38:19

said, your mom's on Depakote,

38:22

and it's a Black Label drug for

38:22

someone with dementia. And she

38:26

lost her mobility and she became

38:26

incontinent when we got her off

38:29

of it. She didn't gain either of

38:29

those back. And her cognitive,

38:34

you know, level went down, of

38:34

course. So but here's what you

38:38

hear as as a caregiver is that

38:38

this is the natural progression

38:43

of dementia and Alzheimer's. Oh,

38:43

yeah, it looks like it because

38:48

they pushed you pat, like seven

38:48

stages. So So and then they say,

38:54

but this is this is what

38:54

happens, honey, this is what

38:57

happens. This is the natural

38:57

progression. So you know, when

39:01

my mom was was, you know, when

39:01

they were trying to kick her out

39:04

the door, basically they'd go,

39:04

this is this is the progression.

39:07

This is how people with

39:07

Alzheimer's die. Yeah, that's

39:11

how everyone dies. But but

39:11

that's what death looks like.

39:15

But how does that justify her

39:15

being at this point now?

39:19

Right? Yeah, yeah. And

39:19

they're not the same things.

39:22

They're completely gets everyone

39:22

dies. And, you know, there are

39:25

stages of dementia. And if

39:25

you're not fully drugged up on

39:28

psychotropic medications, you

39:28

actually can observe those

39:31

stages of dementia. But when you

39:31

expedite that by giving them

39:36

prescription drugs that are not

39:36

clinically tested on people with

39:39

dementia, that's a completely

39:39

it's not even like the same

39:42

argument at all at all. It's not

39:42

even within the same sort of

39:45

like remit of discussion. You

39:45

know, often what we hear is

39:50

facility staff or professionals

39:50

in the health care system, say

39:53

to families, it'll make them

39:53

more comfortable. It's like,

39:57

that's not informed consent.

39:57

That's what informed consent

40:00

should always like, well, let's

40:00

see, what else have you done to

40:02

make them more comfortable? What

40:02

actually have you done, how many

40:06

facilities their staff members

40:06

truly understand and or

40:11

practice, that if you walk up

40:11

from behind for someone with

40:15

dementia and put your hand on

40:15

their arm from behind, the

40:19

absolute fear that imposes

40:19

peripheral vision actually is

40:25

lost with dementia, as the tops

40:25

in the plane go up, sorry,

40:29

plaques and tangles actually

40:29

started to deteriorate the the

40:32

cells and actually, literally

40:32

shrinkage of the brain.

40:37

peripheral vision is something

40:37

that's actually lost in people

40:39

with dementia. So they don't

40:39

even not only walk in from

40:42

behind, but even standing to the

40:42

side, they can't sense that the

40:45

education levels are actually

40:45

very, very low. We also know

40:48

from studies that even for staff

40:48

members who hold higher levels

40:53

of education, their ability to

40:53

recognize delirium is grossly

40:58

inadequate. And delirium is an

40:58

incredibly high medical issue

41:02

that actually occurs in nursing

41:02

homes and specifically with

41:05

people with dementia. So

41:05

there's, there's a lot of

41:08

education, you know, often

41:08

you'll see on websites like, oh,

41:12

all of that stuff, undertook a

41:12

tip of snow training. And so

41:16

we're also qualified and like,

41:16

Wow, that's great. But don't

41:20

bring tip or snow into it.

41:20

Because we know that you're not

41:23

actually like, you get it once,

41:23

five years ago, when you stop,

41:26

it turned over like, tenfold

41:26

since then. None of them are

41:30

actively doing it anyway. So

41:31

Right. It's

41:31

like taking CPR when you have a

41:34

baby and saying, Well, I took

41:34

CPR 20 years ago, I'm good to

41:38

go. Yeah, so let's talk about

41:38

the big question, which is

41:43

ethics. You know, because

41:43

there's, there's, it just feels

41:48

to me, and I know, this sounds

41:48

very Neela stick, but I can't

41:51

help it, since I've got to this

41:51

place, after all of my hell last

41:56

year, is to say, we have to

41:56

really sit back and think about

42:00

why are we keeping our loved

42:00

ones alive? To suffer? Because

42:05

when they say that they're more

42:05

comfortable? Would you want to

42:08

be in a room all day long in by

42:08

yourself? Would you want to be

42:12

flipped like a pancake back and

42:12

forth? Because no one's taking

42:15

care of your wound, but they're

42:15

going through motions of like,

42:18

look, we're taking care of her,

42:18

we're flipping her, you know?

42:21

And would you want to not eat

42:21

food for a year of your life?

42:26

But there would is that comfort?

42:26

And why would i Why are we

42:30

keeping people alive? Or is that

42:30

torture? Is that torture and the

42:34

ethics of it to me, because, you

42:34

know, I the last thing I wanted

42:38

was my mom to die like my best

42:38

friend lover, my favorite person

42:42

in the world next to dawn. But

42:45

I say come on.

42:46

But I I you

42:46

know, I finally got to that

42:51

point, like the week before she

42:51

died. I was like, I can't

42:54

anymore, like I can't. And this

42:54

is just torture, like my mom is

42:57

being tortured. And you just

42:57

want to, and there's nothing you

43:02

can do. And, you know, as I

43:02

started to learn the the

43:07

structure of the business of

43:07

nursing homes and long term

43:10

care, I realized they're just

43:10

making money off of her. They're

43:12

warehousing her. Yeah.

43:15

Yeah. That's, I mean,

43:15

that's a big area of ethics is a

43:19

very challenging, challenging

43:19

area. And there are a lot of

43:23

hard questions that need to be

43:23

asked in that area. And Susie, I

43:27

think there are many, many

43:27

families that go through

43:29

probably similar experiences

43:29

that you have, but I want to

43:32

keep my loved one alive. But is

43:32

it? Is it really the quality of

43:38

life that they actually wanted?

43:38

Because it's really what they

43:42

would want if they were here

43:42

looking down on themselves. We

43:46

get through a lot of that. So

43:46

it's a service I work in we we

43:50

are guardians, for a number of

43:50

people who don't have family

43:54

members to where their court

43:54

appointed guardians and we make

43:56

all their legal, social medical

43:56

decisions. And it's paramount

44:01

for us that we treat everybody

44:01

with such humanity and really

44:06

balance out where where do we

44:06

draw the line of enhancing their

44:11

quality of life? And then how do

44:11

we also educate other people

44:16

that we work with on areas like

44:16

end of life and CPR? CPR is not

44:21

like the movies. It's not you

44:21

don't get pulled out of a river

44:24

and you give CPR and like the

44:24

coffin splutter, and

44:26

everything's good and fine CPR

44:26

and an 80 year old person who is

44:31

had dementia or has osteoporosis

44:31

or has like diabete, any number

44:35

of clinical issues. That's not

44:35

what's going to happen. The

44:39

chances of it actually being

44:39

successful is so minimal. The

44:43

chances of them leaving for a

44:43

short while and having chronic

44:45

brain damage are actually really

44:45

high. their lungs being

44:49

completely shattered, and

44:49

puncturing their lungs through

44:51

the process are really high.

44:51

These these questions of quality

44:55

of life and ethics are really

44:55

big. I The the team we've

45:01

developed we have a very

45:01

specialized guardianship program

45:04

is a constant conversation

45:04

around how do we promote what we

45:08

know is important to that

45:08

individual. We also have no

45:12

playing the game except for to

45:12

do the right thing. Our service

45:15

doesn't we don't have any, any

45:15

profits to make. So it's

45:18

different. Add an element with

45:18

his profits to make. Especially

45:24

if you're just leaving someone there.

45:26

So as

45:26

guardian, which is really

45:28

interesting that you, you know,

45:28

you guys become these

45:30

professional guardians for

45:30

people. So you bait in essence,

45:34

you know, go up against the same

45:34

issues that we are. Yep. And and

45:39

so, you know, like you said, you

45:39

have to make decisions like, but

45:43

you it feels like you should

45:43

have an edge because they should

45:47

have some more respect and fear

45:47

of you as as someone who works

45:52

in a job. Yeah, thing you would

45:52

think, you know, like, if you

45:57

walked in and saw that you're

45:57

one of your, you know, people

46:01

were in a hot room on their

46:01

side, no music, no, nothing, you

46:05

know, not at all. I mean, what

46:05

will you do? What, what I mean,

46:10

how would you handle that?

46:10

Because you're up against this

46:13

huge machine. And even though

46:13

you're fierce and awesome, and

46:17

your team is fierce and awesome.

46:17

You handle it?

46:21

Yeah, I feel like we're

46:21

probably pretty annoying to

46:24

people. Because I do I work full

46:24

acknowledgement to my team,

46:30

because I work with the most

46:30

exceptional people like

46:34

exceptional people, and

46:34

especially the guardianship

46:37

caseworkers that manage our

46:37

guardianship clients and all the

46:40

aspects of their life. They're

46:40

incredible. There is no topic we

46:45

weren't getting to at all, we

46:45

will we will challenge and we

46:49

will speak to any staff member

46:49

at any time and repeatedly. And

46:54

we will go over and over and

46:54

over and over their rights, our

46:59

expectation, the case plan, if

46:59

the long term care ombudsman

47:03

needs to get involved, if we

47:03

need to. We'll investigate them

47:09

for actually caretaking neglect

47:09

of our guardian. You they're

47:12

clearly not actually doing it.

47:12

Like that's an element. That's a

47:15

process that we could go down.

47:15

But my staff are professional,

47:20

they are educated, they are

47:20

intelligent, and they themselves

47:23

are. I want to say they brave.

47:23

They have they know that our

47:30

clients come first. And they

47:30

will push an advocate for them

47:33

with every breath that they have

47:33

of every minute that they are

47:36

within a nursing home and

47:36

outside. And we have we have

47:40

nursing homes, who will a month

47:40

later say oh yeah, no, we change

47:45

their medications and prescribe

47:45

them this anti psychotic, like,

47:50

you legally have zero rights to

47:50

do that. And then we have to go

47:54

through this whole conversation

47:54

again. So yes, you would think

47:57

that we have or that they may

47:57

listen to us. But I guess that

48:02

holds to the actual point. If we

48:02

have that as the state entity

48:07

that investigates abuse and

48:07

neglect if we still have to deal

48:09

with that, how big of an issue

48:09

are we dealing with? Yeah,

48:13

that's what

48:13

I mean. I mean, it's like, here,

48:16

that's what I'm saying, here.

48:16

Here's this fierce team that you

48:19

have you've you've aggregated

48:19

this team and you're so amazing,

48:23

like seriously folks is is like

48:23

such an unicorn of a woman I

48:27

just I can't I just have so much

48:27

respect for you. And and you are

48:32

so up against it, and I know it

48:32

and that's you know, to me

48:35

that's set really does paint the

48:35

picture so clearly because a we

48:41

have to be and not everyone can

48:41

do this not everyone, people

48:44

have to support their own their

48:44

families, their children, their

48:47

so how much time can you balance

48:47

advocating I just happen to be,

48:51

you know, have grown children so

48:51

I could take some time off and I

48:55

decided, you know, I'm gonna I

48:55

have to be there because I

48:59

wasn't that girl wasn't that

48:59

helicopter daughter until I had

49:03

to be. And so I tried to be and

49:03

also, you know what, I've said

49:08

this before I have the disease

49:08

to please and I was always like,

49:11

catch you. So sorry to bother

49:11

you test it out. And then

49:14

finally, by the end, you're

49:14

freaking Shirley MacLaine, and

49:17

you're screaming like, come on,

49:17

she's hot. What's going on?

49:21

She's thirsty and hungry. I hate

49:21

you, all of you.

49:27

Families are in the

49:27

most impossible situation. They

49:29

aren't because people are

49:29

dealing like it's if you have

49:32

little children, you're trying

49:32

to balance them children, a

49:34

house, a mortgage, you're

49:34

working yourself and you've got

49:37

a parent or a loved one in a

49:37

facility. This strip the

49:42

strength and the energy that you

49:42

have raven like or even the

49:45

understanding, and that's a big

49:45

part about what we find really

49:48

important is about educating

49:48

people to know your rights. No,

49:51

you are allowed to say what the

49:51

hell you are allowed to say no,

49:55

you're not prescribing that like

49:55

you can't push back because you

49:58

have the right to do that. up.

49:58

And I will also acknowledge a

50:03

that it's scary for families

50:03

because I know in Colorado and

50:06

I'm guessing it's the same

50:06

across other parts of the

50:09

country, we have a really big

50:09

chronic cert availability of a

50:14

nursing home beds. That's right.

50:14

So push too hard. And all of a

50:18

sudden, they're not appropriate

50:18

for our level of care. We think

50:22

they should be somewhere else if

50:22

you like. But there isn't

50:24

anywhere else and Medicaid. If

50:24

you're private, you can kind of

50:28

get a bed where you want all the

50:28

time. Yep, take your money to

50:32

your home, you can take care if

50:32

you want to. You can't do that.

50:36

That's true. That's absolutely

50:36

cruel to do that to family to so

50:41

not fair for professionals to

50:41

say something like that.

50:44

So is there Oh, I

50:44

was gonna say, oh, go ahead to

50:47

something because you're just

50:47

gonna say on the thread, I have

50:49

an okay. No, I was just gonna

50:49

say, is there? Or can there be

50:53

any, you know, Portal, websites,

50:53

social media saying this place

50:58

sucks. This place is not good.

50:58

This is a one star facility, not

51:02

a five star facility. Here's all

51:02

the cases. And so when you go

51:06

to, you know, set up something

51:06

for your that basically start

51:10

shaming these places, they're in

51:10

business, and businesses, you

51:13

know, there's the Better Business Bureau, do they do anything? No, but you can always

51:15

go there and say, here's the 50

51:18

complaints.

51:19

Like, here's the problem with that, like, but just what just what

51:21

patina just said, there's,

51:24

there's some most places don't

51:24

have any, there's a bed

51:28

shortage. So you're sort of

51:28

stuck. So you think this place

51:31

May that may be the only place

51:31

available and your loved one

51:35

needs long term care?

51:37

I understand what

51:37

I'm talking about, you know, we

51:40

got to start, but these are

51:40

businesses, and they do. Yes,

51:45

yeah. Do Is that something you

51:45

have? Or?

51:48

Yeah, yeah, there's two

51:48

ways here. And one of them I

51:51

know is across, they both

51:51

actually gonna be across the

51:54

country in many formats. So

51:54

there's one they are online to

51:57

online forums where you can

51:57

actually rate and then they do

52:00

actually, they are given a

52:00

rating of like one to five, I

52:04

would say, though, I would, I

52:04

would tell anyone to take those

52:09

ratings with a grain of salt,

52:09

because we investigate

52:11

everything from one to five, and

52:11

that's

52:14

talking about

52:14

something, something coming from

52:16

your perspective from you here.

52:16

This is our official Star

52:20

ratings, you know, because if it

52:20

came from you, the people who

52:25

are in charge of kind of

52:25

overseeing this thing, not from

52:28

some, I just think there would

52:28

be some power to that.

52:32

But there is some there are some done, there's some there are some

52:33

transparency, organizations that

52:38

are starting to do that. And,

52:38

and even identifying who the

52:42

owners are, you know, the true

52:42

owners, there was the there was

52:45

a regulation from CMS, or

52:45

they're still there, I think

52:48

they're in the middle of it

52:48

trying to enforce that or to to

52:52

create a regulation. But at the

52:52

end of the day, it is what you

52:57

know, this is what we have.

52:57

That's all we have, we have one

52:59

apple, that's it.

53:01

And now the Department

53:01

of Health here will publicly

53:04

release investigations and

53:04

concerns into facilities. What I

53:08

would say to that is a some of

53:08

the difficulties or challenges

53:12

they have is that by the time

53:12

they've released it, it's can

53:15

often be a considerable time

53:15

after the fact. And the majority

53:19

families don't even know that

53:19

they can go there and access it.

53:22

Well, that's the thing. It's where it needs to be that that's part of the

53:23

education is it's part of

53:26

educating the public and saying

53:26

there are these, you know, these

53:30

these facilities are these

53:30

things that you can go and see

53:33

where you're going. Where's your

53:33

where's your loved one going? So

53:38

I don't know. I mean, I know

53:38

everything you can always say,

53:41

hey, well, we'll try it. We

53:41

can't do that. We can't but I

53:44

think it's got to be a multi

53:44

1000 prong attack on change. And

53:50

you know,

53:51

because it

53:51

has to come at the top because

53:53

that's that's where

53:55

the top Yeah, yeah,

53:55

no, yeah, let's say write your

53:58

congressman writer that but that

53:58

that's fine. But what are your

54:02

what's your congressman doing?

54:04

Because the

54:04

nursing home lobby are, you

54:07

know, holding hands with

54:09

this pretty powerful,

54:09

which I think that would be

54:12

surprising to a lot of people as

54:12

to know actually how powerful

54:15

the lobbyists are in that area.

54:15

Like it shocked me when I

54:20

started to learn like they even

54:20

have lobbyists.

54:23

Well, corporations

54:23

it's a big corporations so

54:27

yeah, my my

54:27

partner who is a federal

54:30

prosecutor for years and years,

54:30

he reckons that they're, they're

54:34

more powerful than the

54:34

pharmaceutical lobbyists. So

54:38

they're and they're not they're

54:38

not on the radar because nobody

54:40

would think it.

54:41

Nobody would notice

54:41

because you would ever connect a

54:43

nursing home to a lobbyists

54:43

right now, whatever the nursing

54:46

home politics like, yeah, at

54:46

all, but they're there because

54:51

there's a lot of money to be

54:51

made. Yeah, you know, research

54:55

again also shows that and this

54:55

is like very, very different

54:59

kinds. trees is that mortality

54:59

is actually increased. If you

55:03

enter a not for profit nursing

55:03

home, you are more likely to

55:07

have healthier and better care

55:07

and live longer healthier in a

55:11

not for profit nursing home than

55:11

if you are actually in a profit

55:14

for profit nursing home for

55:14

sure.

55:17

And but the nonprofits

55:18

doing it for the right reasons.

55:21

There's

55:21

still some issues there. There's

55:23

still some nonprofits that are

55:23

you know, there's, there's a way

55:26

of structuring

55:27

or in quotes. I do

55:27

Oh, I'm sorry, I did air quotes.

55:34

That's it. Okay.

55:38

I, I get one an

55:38

episode.

55:43

So, let me

55:43

see if I have any more notes on

55:45

my free people. Receipt.

55:48

Very sophisticated.

55:48

Yeah, yes,

55:50

we are professional.

55:53

Yeah, no, I

55:53

was taught now I think like,

55:55

what, because I was really

55:55

listening to our conversation

55:58

before our pre interview, and I

55:58

was listening to your interview

56:02

on all home care matters. And,

56:02

you know, and it just, it just,

56:07

I feel like the conversation is,

56:07

it's on a, it's on a, on a merry

56:11

go round. We're just, you know,

56:11

we're going that did it. You

56:17

know, it's, it's, it's very

56:17

depressing to me, and and I

56:25

just, I love that you're so

56:25

honest and open to say what

56:29

you're doing and what you're

56:29

doing, I think, being the thorn

56:32

in the nose and the noisy, then,

56:32

you know, making making good

56:36

wiki, you're making good

56:36

trouble. I think we all as much

56:39

as we can need to make as as big

56:39

a trouble as we can until the

56:43

system changes, you know, from

56:43

from the top down, until we can

56:48

just break it down, blow it up

56:48

and start all over again. So

56:52

it's so

56:52

important, its

56:52

efficacy, it's just pure

56:55

efficacy, it's so important,

56:55

like, this is us in years to

56:59

come. If we're privileged enough

56:59

to live, it's all of us like,

57:03

it's not the others. It's not

57:03

somebody else, this is

57:06

potentially any one of us. Why

57:06

would we want that for us? And

57:11

why would we want it for our

57:11

moms and dads and our sisters

57:13

and our grandparents? We just

57:13

don't want that. So why are we

57:17

funding it through our

57:17

taxpayers? Like a does, it needs

57:21

to be dismantled? We need to go from this merry go round to a Gravitron. And then something

57:23

that's going to actually like shoot it off. Right? It's really

57:25

like set it up again.

57:28

Right?

57:28

Yeah. So in the meantime, until

57:31

that happens, which I hope that

57:31

this documentary will at least

57:34

you know, cause enough noise

57:34

that for people to actually take

57:39

a look and go, Okay, we need to

57:39

we need power, power to the

57:42

people and get out there and

57:42

make you know, we have the

57:47

power, we just have to get

57:47

people to that's where the

57:49

education becomes really

57:49

important. And if if we have to

57:53

scare people, then we have to

57:53

scare people. I'm sorry, but

57:55

that's the way it is what it is.

57:55

I didn't do it. I'm not making

58:00

this up. And I'm not. I'm not

58:00

trying to be inflammatory or you

58:04

know, what's up Catholic? Or

58:04

you're a conspiracy theorist.

58:09

That's not me. Verschuren that's

58:09

not me. You know,

58:13

this isn't what you

58:13

want to be doing right now. What

58:16

you want to be doing

58:17

now, you

58:17

don't want to be doing this

58:19

patina, you want to be able to

58:19

go in and fine. It's like for

58:22

the few bad actors. Like that's

58:22

what I think people look at.

58:25

Right, right. Yeah, there you

58:25

go. Okay, you're out, you're

58:29

gonna get you're penalized. This

58:29

is what's happening to you. And

58:32

then it up. But that's not it.

58:32

So you guys are like pushing,

58:35

pushing the rock up the hill to

58:35

and so in everybody's getting,

58:39

you know, if they eventually you

58:39

get burned out, because you

58:45

know, and I've talked to so many

58:45

caregivers who have gone through

58:47

what I've gone through, and when

58:47

their loved one passes away,

58:51

they're done.

58:53

Yeah, yeah. Oh, the the

58:53

toll not just emotionally, but

58:57

physically on care providers is

58:57

enormous. And the other thing I

59:00

would say is, you know, often

59:00

obviously, we can butt heads a

59:05

little bit with nursing home.

59:05

But we also, we were all on the

59:10

same page in the same patients

59:10

being let's just do the right

59:13

thing for the actual resident,

59:13

we actually could help them.

59:17

Because why would they want the

59:17

liability of having someone

59:20

that's abusing as an employee,

59:20

like we actually can identify,

59:25

have them put on a registry and

59:25

save their entire business, from

59:29

actually having these people

59:29

employed? Like, if we were

59:32

working together for the common

59:32

goal, we could actually be

59:36

changing the system as it is.

59:36

And you know, sometimes our

59:39

staff on the ground level who do

59:39

want to do that, and I have to

59:41

say, we have had staff members

59:41

on the ground level, who have

59:46

privately said stuff to us about

59:46

their management company that

59:49

their management company would

59:49

just fire them on the spot if

59:52

they knew they had disclosed off

59:52

to my staff. Absolutely fire

59:56

them on the spot, because their

59:56

belief is about actually The

1:00:00

residents, for sure, and they do

1:00:00

care, but, but they don't have

1:00:04

the power. So somebody has to

1:00:04

like come together to actually

1:00:08

formulate this power and then

1:00:08

make it happen. Wait, you know,

1:00:11

another thing that I actually

1:00:11

think is really important, and

1:00:14

this is going to be very

1:00:14

unpopular. That is, I think

1:00:17

nursing home, they need to look

1:00:17

at fingerprinting for their

1:00:19

background checks at the moment.

1:00:19

Many states only require name

1:00:23

checks. Name checks. Yeah, I

1:00:23

mean, you're carrying for the

1:00:28

most vulnerable population, my

1:00:28

argument would be that, you

1:00:32

know, we really do need to look

1:00:32

at fingerprinting checks so that

1:00:34

it's federal, across the whole

1:00:34

country, so people can't commit

1:00:38

serious crimes in one state and

1:00:38

go to another with an apparent

1:00:41

clean slate, like that's a

1:00:41

really important element of

1:00:44

protection and safety. There are

1:00:44

so many other health

1:00:46

professional industries that

1:00:46

require but fingerprint checking

1:00:52

checks,

1:00:53

look at

1:00:53

them loved good nurse that which

1:00:55

is based on a true story. And

1:00:55

that nurse that guy that was

1:00:58

killing people putting whatever

1:00:58

you put into the, into their IV,

1:01:03

I mean, he went from facility to

1:01:03

facility, and he would end

1:01:07

because, you know, when we when

1:01:07

there becomes a shortage, and

1:01:11

people are they're desperate

1:01:11

these places to to hire. And so

1:01:16

like you said, they're the

1:01:16

background checks are minimal,

1:01:19

or, you know, they, um, they're

1:01:19

cursory, cursory and so and I, I

1:01:24

told you this last time, we

1:01:24

talked that when I've

1:01:28

interviewed many, many nurses

1:01:28

that are have been disruptors

1:01:32

and have you know, lost their

1:01:32

job, because they've gone to the

1:01:35

top and said, No, this is

1:01:35

happening, and I can't be a

1:01:38

party to it. And then they get

1:01:38

fired. And then I said, Well,

1:01:41

how do you get hired again? And

1:01:41

they said, because nobody

1:01:45

checks?

1:01:47

Frightening? isn't that

1:01:47

scary?

1:01:49

So see, I'm

1:01:49

sorry, but that is scary. And

1:01:52

I'm scared. So people, we need

1:01:52

to be scared. We need to be

1:01:56

scared.

1:01:58

Is there? I mean, I

1:01:58

know that the pushback the

1:02:01

privacy issues, the cost, the

1:02:01

you know, the rights of the, as

1:02:06

there ever been talk of putting

1:02:06

cameras in these rooms? And so

1:02:12

you can see what the heck is

1:02:12

going on in their sounds? You

1:02:14

know, and and if, and if they

1:02:14

do, I can't imagine it, I got to

1:02:18

imagine it's going to cut down

1:02:18

some of the issues, especially

1:02:22

abuse, neglect is hard to show

1:02:22

on camera. And I know neglect is

1:02:25

abused, but there's still a

1:02:25

different as opposed to actual,

1:02:28

you know, but is there what is

1:02:28

what is where's the state of

1:02:32

that

1:02:33

the actual official

1:02:33

state of the new government say

1:02:35

would never be able to enact

1:02:35

that. But there are some there

1:02:39

are different stories of like

1:02:39

actual family members, like

1:02:42

inserting some of them have been

1:02:42

hidden, some a bit more overt,

1:02:46

mostly have been hidden. And

1:02:46

they're the ones that are

1:02:48

because for a reason, they're

1:02:48

suspecting something. And, and

1:02:51

unfortunately, they've actually

1:02:51

been proven right with their

1:02:54

suspicions many a time. And

1:02:54

that's such as here. We have

1:02:57

plenty of cases, sadly enough in

1:02:57

Australia to where our Aged Care

1:03:00

System has just undergone an

1:03:00

enormous government inquiry

1:03:04

because of the abuse and neglect

1:03:04

and the poor standards there as

1:03:07

well. So it's not even just the

1:03:07

United States. It's

1:03:10

unfortunately, something that

1:03:10

needs to be tackled at a higher

1:03:14

level. But yeah, cameras,

1:03:14

cameras does hit the issue of

1:03:17

like safety, privacy. All those

1:03:17

areas. Yeah. Who

1:03:21

we who we tried to

1:03:21

protect who was trying to

1:03:23

protect?

1:03:25

Well, yeah,

1:03:25

obviously, if a facility says

1:03:27

they they're not allowed, but

1:03:27

it's also statewide.

1:03:29

What do you wanted

1:03:29

to take? Yeah, you wanted to

1:03:33

take a picture of your mother's

1:03:33

bed sore, that's your mother,

1:03:35

they would not allow it. They

1:03:35

said, No, you can't do that,

1:03:38

that tell you that you cannot do

1:03:38

that against policy and you

1:03:41

can't do it. It's like, really?

1:03:44

Yeah. But

1:03:44

what happens is that you get to

1:03:47

a point where you, you, you

1:03:47

know, they your bar gets lower

1:03:51

because you're up against, it's

1:03:51

like Stockholm Syndrome, because

1:03:55

it's like, Okay, I gotta choose

1:03:55

my battles. So it's like, Fine,

1:03:59

I won't take a picture because

1:03:59

they're gonna cause a big

1:04:01

problem that's even more

1:04:01

distracting from taking care of

1:04:05

my

1:04:05

mom and threatened

1:04:05

to kick your mom out. Yeah,

1:04:08

yeah. Or just

1:04:09

don't care

1:04:09

about her. And just you know, so

1:04:11

the retaliation kind of, you

1:04:11

know, fear that we have as Carol

1:04:15

even when you were

1:04:15

when they came into Turner,

1:04:18

they'd say, Okay, you got to

1:04:18

leave. Really, you have to leave

1:04:22

your the conservative of your of

1:04:22

her person. You are her

1:04:26

daughter, and you have to leave

1:04:26

because they didn't want me to

1:04:28

see unless they needed you to

1:04:28

help them because they were

1:04:32

understaffed. Yeah. Yeah, so

1:04:37

Well, what

1:04:37

else is there anything that you

1:04:43

what I have to emphasize love conquers all as you guys

1:04:56

well, you obviously

1:04:56

you must love what you do

1:04:58

because you do Do this get her

1:05:01

she's

1:05:01

amazing. Look at her. I mean, we

1:05:04

all of us that are doing this,

1:05:04

we have to keep fighting.

1:05:07

Because we can at least if we

1:05:07

help a little tiny bit, and get

1:05:13

noisy and big and make, you

1:05:13

know, it's like when a bear

1:05:15

comes, what are you supposed to

1:05:15

do? You're not supposed to run

1:05:18

away and you're not supposed to

1:05:18

lay down, you're supposed to get

1:05:20

big. Right? I was just telling

1:05:20

Dawn and then you're supposed

1:05:23

to, you know, growl really loud.

1:05:23

And then that you are that's

1:05:27

what they tell you.

1:05:28

So depends on the

1:05:28

bear. But that's no, no,

1:05:31

it's true.

1:05:31

I say get big and loud. get as

1:05:35

big as you can, and as loud as

1:05:35

you can, until we can fix this

1:05:38

freaking system. Do you agree?

1:05:38

Yeah,

1:05:42

I do. I, I 100% believe

1:05:42

that, when people come together,

1:05:47

they actually can affect change.

1:05:47

They do. Sometimes it takes a

1:05:50

really long time. But if you're

1:05:50

committed and you stick to it,

1:05:53

you can I mean, State of

1:05:53

Colorado has done some

1:05:55

incredible things with

1:05:55

legislation and practice within

1:05:58

in my particular area, which has

1:05:58

just been really impressive. And

1:06:02

it's motivational and and I

1:06:02

think that we can be doing on a

1:06:05

much bigger scale, we can do it

1:06:05

nationally here. And you know,

1:06:08

what, if nationally, here we are

1:06:08

together, and we are showing

1:06:11

what can be accomplished.

1:06:11

Imagine how beneficial that is

1:06:14

for other countries who can

1:06:14

actually see if the United

1:06:17

States accomplish this, then we

1:06:17

can too, we can actually affect

1:06:20

change for our residents and our

1:06:20

nursing homes as well. So

1:06:24

there's a lot at stake and I do

1:06:24

I just believe that together,

1:06:27

we're so much stronger, and we

1:06:27

actually can make a change,

1:06:30

I agree to

1:06:30

and I think, you know, you only

1:06:32

you can look at it in the

1:06:32

opposite way. And we are we are

1:06:35

role models for the world. You

1:06:35

know, America is very, very

1:06:39

powerful that way. And, look,

1:06:39

what our western individualism

1:06:43

has done is it's permeated all

1:06:43

so many countries that didn't

1:06:47

have that, that were really, you

1:06:47

know, much more communal. And,

1:06:51

and, and it's it, you know, I

1:06:51

hear from people in, in Egypt,

1:06:55

and then in Asia, you know, and

1:06:55

where they used to revere their,

1:07:00

their elders, and it's

1:07:00

permeated, it's become, you

1:07:04

know, that that has become the

1:07:04

that that is the paradigm. And

1:07:09

also, you know, even in, like

1:07:09

you were saying in England,

1:07:13

where you think, and also

1:07:13

Australia, I mean, it's there.

1:07:17

It's this individualism that's

1:07:17

permeated everywhere.

1:07:22

Yeah, we can do

1:07:22

round, right, so we can

1:07:24

do it negatively MIT, let's do it positively, positively. Yeah.

1:07:26

And if it if it's capitalism,

1:07:30

that is the motivation, then

1:07:30

let's figure out a way to make

1:07:33

that, you know, work in that

1:07:33

direction, but in a good way. I

1:07:37

don't you know,

1:07:37

yeah, yeah, exactly.

1:07:37

You know, it's not about like,

1:07:41

even the can be money made. But

1:07:41

where, where are our priorities,

1:07:47

like, as human beings as a

1:07:47

society? Yeah, we should be we

1:07:53

should be doing better. And also

1:07:55

one thing and evidence that this is such a huge problem, it's overwhelming.

1:07:56

How can we, if you were to save

1:08:00

one person's life today? I think

1:08:00

you'd go home feeling pretty

1:08:03

good. Oh, yeah, I see. Good. So

1:08:03

if we sit, you know what I mean,

1:08:08

it's got to start somewhere.

1:08:08

Yes. And we can't fix it all at

1:08:11

once. But we can start making a

1:08:11

difference now. And it's it's

1:08:14

one, and if it's saving one

1:08:14

person a day, or making one

1:08:18

person's life better a day, so

1:08:18

be it and then go from there.

1:08:21

But let's not look at it this

1:08:21

fatalistically. Let's look at

1:08:24

you know, yeah, that's how you

1:08:24

have to wake up in the morning.

1:08:27

Absolutely. And these

1:08:27

are the benefits of people like

1:08:31

Don and Susie and Lance because

1:08:31

all home care matters. And other

1:08:35

people who are doing podcasts is

1:08:35

providing this platform to all

1:08:39

of the communities and societies

1:08:39

for people to tune into and go,

1:08:43

Ah, I do have those rights, or I

1:08:43

didn't know that before. And I

1:08:47

didn't know there was the

1:08:47

benefit of this other danger

1:08:49

that they held all of these

1:08:49

platforms that you have

1:08:52

developed for everybody around

1:08:52

the country to dig into. I mean,

1:08:55

this is part of that movement is

1:08:55

helping educate and support

1:08:58

everybody out there. I just saw

1:08:58

the statistic was actually now

1:09:02

at 6.7 million people with

1:09:02

dementia, or might have actually

1:09:07

just been specifically Alzheimer's across the country. So we we know we're on a

1:09:09

trajectory of growing and your

1:09:12

platforms, some of the strength

1:09:12

base foundations to help people

1:09:16

be motivated and be like, I need

1:09:16

to say more. I'm not going to

1:09:19

accept this. I'm not going to tolerate it.

1:09:21

Thank you.

1:09:21

Thank you for that. Thank you.

1:09:23

And I think that you know, it is

1:09:23

it is about love. Because that's

1:09:28

I wouldn't be doing this if I

1:09:28

didn't love and care. I wouldn't

1:09:32

be putting myself out there like

1:09:32

this, you know, I would be

1:09:35

talking about oh, here's tips on

1:09:35

what to do for an activity in

1:09:38

the afternoon with your loved

1:09:38

one. And there's plenty and

1:09:41

that's worthwhile. But yes, but

1:09:41

I saw things that I can't unsee

1:09:47

going

1:09:47

on. See? Yeah, yeah,

1:09:47

that's a different place. And

1:09:49

those those those guidance and

1:09:49

tips are really great for

1:09:53

different people at different

1:09:53

points and stages of where they

1:09:55

are because you know some people

1:09:55

If if there's any sort of like

1:10:02

light, who who do experience

1:10:02

pleasant confusion, that would

1:10:06

be like the ultimate if you're

1:10:06

going to if you're going to

1:10:09

experience dementia and pleasant

1:10:09

confusion is like your single

1:10:13

symptom or not your single but

1:10:13

your single primary symptom, as

1:10:17

compared to the spectrum that we

1:10:17

have, there's a really big

1:10:19

spectrum of how dementia can

1:10:19

affect people. So you can have

1:10:22

pleasant confusion, or you can

1:10:22

have really out near Big

1:10:26

outbursts, like significant

1:10:26

psychological symptoms of

1:10:29

dementia, that, you know, you

1:10:29

might be lashing out at people

1:10:32

and have lots of very intense

1:10:32

delusions and hallucinations.

1:10:37

And so, they're, those tips are

1:10:37

really good for when you can

1:10:41

have someone at home. But we

1:10:41

know that everyone's experience

1:10:44

is different from the person

1:10:44

with dementia to the person

1:10:47

providing care and all their

1:10:47

surrounding families. And what

1:10:50

you where you're at, is, you're

1:10:50

at this end of the spectrum,

1:10:54

you've seen the worst of the

1:10:54

worse. And now, your goal and

1:10:58

where you're places in this

1:10:58

world is to be helping everyone

1:11:01

else who has seen but you can't

1:11:01

unsee as well, because there are

1:11:05

more of you out there. And they

1:11:05

need support as much

1:11:08

do they do

1:11:08

and I and I, I think it's an

1:11:13

honor in a way to do this. So,

1:11:13

you know, and I and I didn't,

1:11:18

didn't sign up for it. It's like

1:11:18

I always say that Leeza Gibbons,

1:11:22

who's like one of my good

1:11:22

friend, and she's been in this

1:11:24

in this field for a long time.

1:11:24

She always she always says, you

1:11:30

know, nobody grows up saying I

1:11:30

want to grow up and be a

1:11:34

caregiver. It's not. It's not

1:11:34

sexy. It's not glamorous, and

1:11:38

there are no caregiver Barbies,

1:11:38

you know, and so there should be

1:11:44

yeah should be so I'm promoting

1:11:44

for caregiver Barbie. And and so

1:11:52

so be it. Let's just be loud,

1:11:52

you guys. Anything else you

1:11:56

wanted to say before we say I

1:11:56

do.

1:11:59

I thank you for having

1:11:59

me on your platform. And thank

1:12:01

you for everything you're doing

1:12:01

to like support everyone out

1:12:04

there. It's it's so invaluable.

1:12:04

And I very much appreciate both

1:12:09

the effort and time you both put

1:12:09

into this vac actually

1:12:12

appreciate you

1:12:12

completely and I'm sure a lot of

1:12:15

people out there appreciate what

1:12:15

you're doing. So keep it going.

1:12:18

Thank you.

1:12:18

Thank you to be continued.

1:12:22

Absolutely.

1:12:23

Take care.

1:12:23

Bettina Morrow is good, good,

1:12:26

good people. Good good people. I really

1:12:27

because

1:12:30

only a good person would do what she's doing, obviously. Yeah, but she's just

1:12:32

such a spirit too. She's just

1:12:35

got this energy and positivity

1:12:35

and considering what she's doing

1:12:40

to have that yeah, is amazing.

1:12:40

Still, you know, not be run down

1:12:45

by it, you know? Yeah. Fabulous.

1:12:49

I hope everybody got a lot out of that. And we didn't mean to be so

1:12:51

negative, but we're not being

1:12:54

negative because it's really

1:12:54

leading towards change. So we're

1:12:58

just trying to, you know, be

1:12:58

transparent of what we see. You

1:13:02

know, and I think that she

1:13:02

really, I think Bettina really

1:13:06

gave a good side to it, you

1:13:06

know, being being a

1:13:10

professional, a professional

1:13:10

advocate and, and what she's up

1:13:15

against and her team. So that

1:13:15

that really, that really paints

1:13:21

a picture for us as caregivers,

1:13:21

what we are up against because

1:13:25

we don't know and they they know

1:13:25

all the ins and outs and it's

1:13:28

still so hard and it's still

1:13:28

they have to go and keep

1:13:33

advocating keep advocating so

1:13:33

the point is until it changes

1:13:37

keep advocating get big. Get big

1:13:37

like a bear. Get Fisher voice.

1:13:43

Raul growl Krakow

1:13:43

can't really.

1:13:47

Yeah, and

1:13:47

Yeah, cuz that's, it's it's

1:13:51

really at the end of the day about

1:13:53

love between

1:13:53

obviously loves what she does

1:13:55

she you know, you can't do that

1:13:55

without loving it. So it's all

1:13:58

love, love, love. Yeah. So and

1:13:58

that ends. Why we? Because

1:14:03

that's right. And that's because

1:14:03

love is powerful. Love is

1:14:06

contagious. And love conquers

1:14:06

all. We thank everyone including

1:14:12

you out there who who listened

1:14:12

or watched today. Please always

1:14:17

share like, do all those good

1:14:17

things. And please do look into

1:14:20

supporting our upcoming

1:14:20

documentary No Country for Old

1:14:24

people. We need your help. And

1:14:24

we need it in a big way. And we

1:14:28

have to say it's it's money at

1:14:28

this point.

1:14:30

Yeah, it's

1:14:30

for all of us and, and if you

1:14:33

can't again, I just encourage

1:14:33

you to share it, share and and

1:14:38

and find if you've known any

1:14:38

like minded philanthropist.

1:14:41

That's awesome. And until then,

1:14:41

we'll talk to you. We'll see you

1:14:45

next time.

1:14:46

Take care bye bye

1:14:56

hey, this

1:14:56

is Susie singer Carter and I

1:14:58

just wanted to take a minute to

1:14:58

talk to you About bedsores, I

1:15:01

know but if you're like I was

1:15:01

you probably don't have a clue

1:15:04

what a bed so really is. Most

1:15:04

people don't. I mean, no one

1:15:08

told me and I really just

1:15:08

assumed it was part of the body

1:15:11

that was like the name says sore

1:15:11

from lain in one position too

1:15:15

long and then if you change the

1:15:15

position, all better. Wrong.

1:15:19

bedsore is really a euphemism

1:15:19

for more appropriate names such

1:15:23

as pressure wound, and to keep

1:15:23

it as ulcer. Unfortunately, I

1:15:26

discovered what a bedsore really

1:15:26

was. When my mom was admitted

1:15:29

into the hospital last year with

1:15:29

a stage four ulcer, that is the

1:15:33

worst level, you don't ever want

1:15:33

that to happen. bed sores can

1:15:37

develop quickly and worsen

1:15:37

rapidly and can lead to serious

1:15:40

health issues, even death if

1:15:40

they're not properly treated, or

1:15:43

properly treated. And that

1:15:43

includes cleaning and dressing

1:15:46

the wound, but most importantly,

1:15:46

reducing pressure off the sore

1:15:50

by frequently changing the

1:15:50

position of the person off of

1:15:53

their wounds so it can heal and

1:15:53

that can mean propping the

1:15:56

person up 30 degrees to the

1:15:56

side, far enough to be off the

1:15:59

lower back, but not too far as

1:15:59

to be on the side hip where

1:16:03

there isn't much cushion right

1:16:03

between the skin and the bone.

1:16:05

This is why I'm so excited to

1:16:05

tell you about that sir rescue,

1:16:09

which was designed by an amazing

1:16:09

woman when jewel a nurse who is

1:16:13

tired of fooling around with

1:16:13

simple pillows and bulky wedges

1:16:16

that just don't work. The beds

1:16:16

are rescue positioning wedge

1:16:19

cushions are uniquely designed

1:16:19

to provide ergonomically correct

1:16:22

and comfortable support for a

1:16:22

sustained period of time without

1:16:26

touching the sore and the

1:16:26

curvatures and bilateral angles

1:16:29

make it possible for the bedside

1:16:29

cushion to be used to support

1:16:33

many other body parts as well.

1:16:33

You can flip the heels you can

1:16:36

put it under the head, you can

1:16:36

put it under the arms behind the

1:16:39

knees, both sides. You can even

1:16:39

use it as a breakfast in bed

1:16:42

table the curvatures of the bed

1:16:42

sir rescue fit the curvatures of

1:16:46

your person's body and it's made

1:16:46

to meet all the patients

1:16:49

safeties, and bed bound

1:16:49

positioning standards for acute

1:16:52

and long term care facilities. I

1:16:52

wish I had it for my mom, I

1:16:56

really do. So chances are if you

1:16:56

have a loved one in long term

1:16:59

care facility, or at your home,

1:16:59

you may become a pressure injury

1:17:04

soldier too. But bed sores

1:17:04

should never never get to stage

1:17:07

four. And one way to ensure that

1:17:07

they don't is to make sure that

1:17:11

as soon as one begins to

1:17:11

develop, you keep the pressure

1:17:14

off. You can do that easily with

1:17:14

beds so a rescue and you can

1:17:17

find bedsore, rescue and many

1:17:17

other pressures solutions online

1:17:21

at jewel nursing solutions home

1:17:21

of the patented bedsore rescue

1:17:24

positioning which cushions pads

1:17:24

and pillows that's Jul, je w e l

1:17:29

l nursing solutions.com. And

1:17:29

when you use the special code

1:17:33

and C F O P the entire amount of

1:17:33

your purchase will go to support

1:17:38

our important documentary No

1:17:38

Country for Old people, which

1:17:41

chronicles my mother's journey

1:17:41

navigating the nursing home long

1:17:44

term care crisis that literally

1:17:44

began with an unreported

1:17:47

untreated pressure wound. So

1:17:47

take the pressure off yourself

1:17:51

and your loved one with the

1:17:51

bedsore rescue