0:00

When the world has

0:00

gotcha down, and Alzheimer's

0:04

sucks. It's an equal opportunity

0:04

disease that chips away at

0:08

everything we hold dear. And to

0:08

date, there's no cure. So until

0:12

there is we continue to fight

0:12

with the most powerful tool in

0:15

our arsenal. Love. This is love

0:15

conquers all is a real and

0:21

really positive podcast that

0:21

takes a deep dive into

0:24

everything. Alzheimer's, The

0:24

Good, the Bad, and everything in

0:29

between. And now, here are your

0:29

hosts Susie singer, Carter, and

0:33

me, Don Priess

0:39

Hello, everybody. I'm Susie singer Carter.

0:42

And I'm Don Priess.

0:42

And this is love conquers all

0:45

calls. Hello, Susan.

0:47

Hello, Donald. Summer.

0:51

Oh, yes. We've been show.

0:53

I've been

0:53

watching show Shogun after

0:55

everything. Yeah. On some kind

0:55

of dogs that now. Yeah, they

0:59

don't like that gives it some

0:59

Alfie summer. Alfie summer, I'm

1:05

gonna be the Shogun of my house.

1:10

It's, it's such a

1:10

neat, I don't know if anyone's

1:13

seen it out there. And I'm sure

1:13

a lot of people have but just,

1:15

you know, to have to read almost

1:15

the entire show. It's, it's a

1:18

challenge. Because you can't go

1:18

and you can't be on your phone

1:24

while you're watching. There's a lot of

1:27

there's a

1:27

lot of cutting. There's a lot of

1:29

me doing this. That there's a

1:29

lot of that. Yeah, you can't.

1:33

It's really It's it. I don't

1:33

know what's compelling. It

1:36

compelled me to finish it. But

1:36

yeah. It's a good story. It is a

1:41

good story. Yeah. So thank you

1:41

all for coming and listening to

1:48

us. Because we know you have

1:48

other lot of other podcasts to

1:52

listen to. But you know, we're

1:52

happy that you're here. And, you

1:56

know, we're happy that we

1:56

continue to get amazing guests

1:59

and people that are interesting,

1:59

and you know, have different

2:03

ways of looking at the subject

2:03

matter that we talked about

2:06

every week. And just a quick

2:06

update on no country, for old

2:11

people, we're we have just

2:11

pretty much locked our picture.

2:16

And we are very, very tired, and

2:16

very proud of ourselves. And,

2:24

you know, who knew that you have

2:24

to do all this legal stuff for

2:27

documentaries? You know? No, no,

2:27

it is brutal. We had to go

2:32

through every single frame of

2:32

this three hour project and get

2:37

clearance from what's called a

2:37

fair use lawyer. So so that we

2:42

don't get sued later on, and

2:42

that the distribution doesn't

2:46

get sued. And so we've done our

2:46

due diligence, and also it's

2:51

very expensive. So we're still

2:51

raising money, folks, if you

2:54

want to get a tax deduction.

2:54

Bring it on, bring it on.

2:58

Because various lawyers are very

2:58

pricey. Yeah, very pricey. Oh,

3:06

it too. Looks like

3:06

Oh, I get to write you an email

3:09

that will be $700 Yeah,

3:12

I'm not

3:12

even kidding you. But, you know,

3:15

but

3:15

they're really good.

3:15

We there are terrific, so worth

3:19

every penny I say

3:20

worth every penny if they're if they ever listened to this. We're hoping

3:22

for a thumbs up this time.

3:26

Because yeah, because it's just

3:26

getting too expensive. So anywho

3:29

that's, that's what we're doing

3:29

right now. And we're also

3:33

beginning to to create what's

3:33

called the Impact campaign. So

3:38

this is because as you know,

3:38

this is not just a movie, it's a

3:41

movement. And we want to create

3:41

a collective conscious shift in

3:46

the way we think about our third

3:46

act of life and and, you know,

3:51

the long term care industry

3:51

which is exactly what it is an

3:56

industry that needs to shift

3:56

very, you know, very quickly can

4:02

because many, many people are

4:02

suffering now as we speak as and

4:07

we are all in this it's it's not

4:07

just other people's problems,

4:11

it's really all have our so it's

4:11

super important and we still

4:16

appreciate everyone's support.

4:16

And if there's anybody out there

4:20

that is an expert in creating a

4:20

you know, a metoo movement kind

4:26

of situation. You know,

4:26

political activism, we're all in

4:31

please contact us because we

4:31

make movies, we don't know how

4:34

to make movements, but we're

4:34

gonna, we're there for you.

4:37

We've got this great tool to

4:37

educate the public and it will

4:41

so help us get it out there and

4:41

help us you know, make changes

4:45

that are dire. Okay, I'm off my

4:45

soapbox. Let's talk about Well

4:50

done. Well.

4:55

We'll move on to Yeah, we have a

4:57

great guest

4:57

who came to us like through via

5:00

You know, we weren't even

5:00

searching this and it just came

5:03

to us like a gift.

5:04

It's a miracle.

5:04

Yeah. Shall I tell you all about

5:08

her? Yes. Okay. Heather Finn

5:08

came to filmmaking from comedy.

5:15

She has been making funny videos

5:15

since she was a kid growing up

5:18

in small town, New Jersey. New

5:18

Jersey, yeah, Jersey. I know.

5:25

You're gonna like her even more

5:25

now. Girl, I love it. After

5:30

earning a philosophy degree from

5:30

Georgetown University, she has

5:34

gone on to direct over 35 comedy

5:34

shorts. Heather has been

5:37

featured on MTV, Dr. Phil TV

5:37

Guide magazine and the

5:41

Washington Post just to name a

5:41

few. And now her real life story

5:45

has led to a groundbreaking one

5:45

woman show quicksand that

5:49

chronicles her dad's paralyzing

5:49

stroke, and the struggles to

5:52

pull herself up from sinking. As

5:52

Heather says from caregiving to

5:56

death and the midlife crisis.

5:56

Quicksand is a storytelling and

6:00

cloud exploration of the realest

6:00

shit we face. And we are very

6:05

excited to hear more about this

6:05

heartfelt project and everything

6:09

in the world of the one, the

6:09

only Heather Fink Hello,

6:13

Heather.

6:14

Thank you so much

6:14

for having me. And PS, I went to

6:17

George Washington, not George

6:17

Town, although that would have

6:20

been nice. Oh, did

6:21

I say Georgetown?

6:22

Well, you know, there are two George's that are both in DC. Yeah, they're quite

6:24

competitive, although the one is

6:27

Ivy and the one is not. So you

6:31

went to was clearly better.

6:35

It's got 100% More

6:35

Washington than then Georgetown.

6:39

So you're

6:39

absolutely right way America,

6:43

Washington. Yes. It's such a

6:43

pleasure to be honest with you.

6:46

I clearly you're the film you're

6:46

making. Can you tell me the

6:49

title again,

6:50

No Country

6:50

for Old people, No Country

6:53

for Old people. I mean, it's beautiful. And the show that I'm making to dads

6:55

have a long term purpose, not

6:58

just, you know, making a lot of

6:58

different parties feel less

7:03

invisible for making caregiving

7:03

less invisible to make eldercare

7:06

less invisible, to having female

7:06

breadwinners be less invisible.

7:11

All these different things I

7:11

want to give visibility to. And

7:15

so I'm quite passionate about

7:15

what you're saying. And I love

7:18

for this to lead to the ability

7:18

to change caregiving in the

7:22

world.

7:23

Let's do

7:23

it. Yeah. I swear, you know, it

7:28

really comes from storytelling.

7:28

And it really comes, you know, I

7:31

feel like we the power that we

7:31

have as filmmakers and writers

7:34

and directors that we can, you

7:34

know, fashion a story to touch

7:38

hearts. And that will resonate.

7:38

Right. So it's, and I keep

7:42

telling people that, you know,

7:42

this problem in long term care

7:46

has been around for decades for

7:46

five decades to be exact. And,

7:51

you know, and it's not like,

7:51

it's not been talked about, you

7:54

know, it's been, you know, it's

7:54

frontline and CNN and you know,

8:00

and John Oliver, and now all

8:00

everybody's talking talked about

8:03

it, but it doesn't resonate when

8:03

it's just facts. So when you

8:07

tell a story, like what you're

8:07

doing with your with quicksand

8:11

is, that's what that's when you

8:11

reach people is when you touch

8:14

their hearts, when it resonates,

8:14

you know, it's it's and, you

8:18

know, comedy. But so? And can I

8:18

just preface before you get into

8:24

because I can't wait to hear all

8:24

about it. Is that this? You

8:27

know, just wanted to clarify

8:27

that, yes, your dad had a

8:30

stroke, and it wasn't

8:30

Alzheimer's. But in the long

8:33

term care world, you know, there

8:33

is so much ableism and ableism

8:39

is directed at people with

8:39

dementia, people with

8:42

Parkinson's and people who have

8:42

had strokes, because often, all

8:47

three of those lose their

8:47

ability to communicate. And when

8:50

you don't have a voice, that's

8:50

when you are so vulnerable. And

8:54

that's why we were having

8:54

Heather on because I want to

8:56

talk about that, and how that

8:56

she navigated that with her

9:00

father, because I had that issue

9:00

with my mom. And and I think it

9:05

is, you know, that is the

9:05

universal issues that the

9:08

ableism ageism, and then the the

9:08

vulnerability of not having a

9:12

voice so,

9:14

yeah, tell

9:14

us about

9:14

you. I mean, you're very great.

9:17

And obviously, you've done so

9:17

much. And that's a whole nother

9:20

podcast, I'd love to talk about

9:20

what you've done as a filmmaker

9:24

and a creator. But tell me about

9:24

how quick Sam came about.

9:29

Well, you know, I

9:29

am now 42 years old, and I have

9:33

been trying to make it and we've

9:33

gotten very, very close to a big

9:36

break, like so close where I had

9:36

investors in a film and then it

9:40

fell through or I was hired to

9:40

direct these two, you know,

9:44

major TV shows, and then there

9:44

was a merger and those shows got

9:48

canceled. So I'm getting very,

9:48

very close. And I've written

9:51

maybe six different feature

9:51

scripts. I've made one that

9:54

didn't really have it. That

9:54

wasn't my big break either. And

9:58

so I've been struggling to tell

9:58

my story for so long. And I

10:03

wrote a feature film based on

10:03

the things that my family went

10:06

through. I always even though I

10:06

specialize in comedy, because

10:09

that's my favorite instinct. and

10:09

I are, that's my strongest

10:13

thing, instinct, my comedy

10:13

instinct. But I always want to

10:18

make things that give like a

10:18

spoonful of sugar with the

10:21

medicine. So I always want to

10:21

deliver a message or something

10:26

that I care about in every

10:26

single story, I tell. So that's

10:28

there for everything. But I've

10:28

struggled for so long to try to

10:32

figure out how to tell the story

10:32

of what my family went through.

10:36

And my first feature script I

10:36

wrote about it, I think, is the

10:39

worst script ever wrote, because

10:39

it lacked objectivity. And so

10:43

I've been for that, I wrote that

10:43

in 2019. And I've been trying to

10:47

figure out how to tell it. So I

10:47

started developing it for

10:50

television. And then I know that

10:50

these things take forever to get

10:54

made, if at all, and I just

10:54

said, My dad passed in June. So

10:59

it'll be about a year. And I was

10:59

like, I just need to get this

11:03

out. And so that's why I started

11:03

doing a solo show. And one big

11:08

part of the show that speaks to

11:08

what you mentioned, about not

11:12

being able to speak. And it's

11:12

something that's depicted in the

11:16

show that I tried to figure out

11:16

through the television version

11:19

and the stage version, which is

11:19

that one of the deepest

11:25

struggles I've had in my dad's

11:25

life, after the stroke, and

11:31

during his death, was that he

11:31

couldn't talk and there would be

11:35

no last words, you know, and I,

11:35

I've been seeking those I can

11:40

connect to and identify with on

11:40

this. And I was like listening

11:43

to Anderson Cooper's grief

11:43

podcast, which is fantastic. And

11:46

I recommend, and I'd been

11:46

participating in death pathways,

11:50

which if you don't know about

11:50

them, I also really recommend

11:52

this, but I could connect, it

11:52

was very rare that anyone could

11:57

speak to that feeling, that

11:57

desire, that feeling of being

12:01

like robbed of last words, and

12:01

all of that, because it happened

12:05

in 2010. He was for 13 years

12:05

like that. And yeah, I'll stop

12:11

if I'll keep going. If you run

12:11

for I thought, you're gonna say

12:14

something?

12:15

Oh, no.

12:18

Okay, so it's

12:18

called quick sound. Because

12:20

organically I felt during this

12:20

time that I kept thinking, and I

12:25

kept trying to do something to

12:25

pull myself up from it. But life

12:29

and the situation and constant

12:29

emergencies kept sort of pulling

12:34

me down. And it's my desire to

12:34

try to climb back out of that.

12:38

And I thought for the television

12:38

version, that there could be the

12:41

surrealist space where, for

12:41

example, my character could

12:45

communicate with some version of

12:45

her dad and have conversations

12:48

with her dad, maybe it's like a

12:48

puppet or a claymation version

12:51

or something like that. So that

12:51

is actually part of the show, I

12:55

have made a puppet version of my

12:55

father. And I do kind of play

12:59

with that. There's some surreal

12:59

stuff, like there's a

13:02

storytelling sandwich in the

13:02

show. And in the middle, I do

13:05

some interesting theatrical

13:05

themes with caregiving and, and

13:10

weight, and my puppet. So that

13:10

happens, but for the TV version,

13:15

I just want there to be some

13:15

sort of surrealist space to work

13:19

through the emotional part of

13:19

the story and make it something

13:23

like the thing with film in our

13:23

heart rate is you want to create

13:27

an emotional response. You want

13:27

to get to people who maybe maybe

13:31

have gone through this or even

13:31

have it to try to help them

13:34

understand what it feels like.

13:34

So that's kind of how I'm using

13:37

like this quick sound surrealist

13:37

space. And for the TV version, I

13:42

liken it a bit to Ally McBeal,

13:42

how she would like visualize all

13:46

these, like dancing baby and

13:46

things. So it's not exactly your

13:48

dream states, but it's more the

13:48

character can interact with

13:52

things about how they're feeling

13:52

inside. So yeah, that's what I

13:56

like to do.

13:58

It's great.

13:58

It's like it's a great device to

14:00

to work through a really hard

14:00

situation. Right. So I think,

14:06

yeah, I think that's really

14:06

powerful. Because it is hard,

14:12

because when you're thrown into

14:12

a situation like that, like my

14:15

mom was communicating and then

14:15

due to what happened in 2022,

14:20

you know, she ran to hospital

14:20

got intubated, and then you know

14:24

anybody even if you don't have

14:24

Alzheimer's, you know, your

14:27

ability to speak after being

14:27

intubated is is impaired you

14:30

need you know, therapy to get

14:30

back get back to to my mom began

14:35

to lose her ability to speak and

14:35

I wasn't prepared for that

14:39

either. And but we were so close

14:39

that I, I had such a nonverbal

14:44

communication with her, you

14:44

know, I you know, I spent every

14:48

time I was there I was I would

14:48

do the dog and pony show the

14:51

Suzy. I'm your daughter, dog and

14:51

pony show, to keep, you know, to

14:55

get in to open the doors. And we

14:55

communicated as I'm sure you and

14:59

your Dad, have you figured out a

14:59

way? Right? Yeah. And I

15:05

literally could make her laugh.

15:05

I could make her swoon, I could

15:10

make her throw kisses to me.

15:10

Because she and I would see her

15:14

look for words like she'd look

15:14

up and I go, I know you're

15:17

looking for the word. You're

15:17

trying to get it. And I go, I'm

15:20

here. I got time. Wait, wait,

15:20

wait, you know. And, you know,

15:26

there was one moment, and I'll

15:26

say this, because I gave I had

15:29

patience. And halfway through

15:29

before, you know, it was like,

15:32

six months at this chapter, when

15:32

she went into the hospital and

15:37

then died. About three months

15:37

into it, she just looked at me

15:42

with clarity and just went I

15:42

love you like that, like fully

15:46

articulated, like she was she

15:46

ran a marathon to get those

15:50

words out. And never again, they

15:50

didn't come out again. But it

15:53

was again, but you know, and I

15:53

feel your pain, because I had to

15:57

go through walking her out the

15:57

door without hearing how she

16:03

felt about it.

16:06

Right. Yeah, I

16:06

mean, it really is a deeply hard

16:09

thing. And I know that there's

16:09

other people out there going

16:11

through, which I think is why

16:11

you make a podcast, like I'm

16:14

making the show, you're making

16:14

the movie, we do these things to

16:17

try to connect. So that I mean,

16:17

the feeling is that you want to

16:21

make something because for all

16:21

the suffering or tragedy, you

16:25

want it to have been worth

16:25

something, you know, you want to

16:27

do something with it. So and you

16:27

know, like I said, there isn't

16:31

there wasn't Alzheimer's in my

16:31

family. But aside from my dad's

16:34

stroke, also my grandmother, and

16:34

my dad's older brother was

16:37

schizophrenic. And so and they

16:37

have well, my grandmother lived

16:41

with us when I was a teenager.

16:41

And so I've had a lot of people

16:45

who aren't all that they're

16:45

present in their mind. And you

16:49

talk about those moments of

16:49

clarity. And I can remember,

16:51

like, very rare few moments

16:51

where you could actually connect

16:55

and how intense and how you'll

16:55

always remember those moments

16:59

for the rest of your life. And

16:59

so my dad, I think, you know, he

17:03

had a decent amount of

17:03

comprehension, although he had a

17:06

hyper emotive state where he

17:06

would either laugh or cry more

17:09

easily. Like, for example, you

17:09

know, we tried so hard to still

17:13

bring him stuff. So you could

17:13

have, we could all have a good

17:15

life. And we took him to the

17:15

ballet at Lincoln Center. And he

17:19

was, he laughed, you laughed at

17:19

her ballet dancers. And then he

17:22

laughed at how inappropriate it

17:22

was to laugh. So he laughed so

17:26

hard, we had to like pull him

17:26

out of the valley. Which is, I

17:31

think, to me, like any like real

17:31

good ballet, very ridiculous. So

17:37

we had to pull him out those,

17:37

but those kinds of kinds of

17:41

things happen. And then more

17:41

recently, you know, something

17:46

happened with my mom or my mom

17:46

has always been like, sharpest

17:49

line, she was nicknamed the

17:49

Bulldog at work. And she was

17:53

recently, really in a really bad

17:53

way, a victim of romance

17:56

scammers who came, like they

17:56

target widows, it's really bad.

18:00

And even then I felt for the

18:00

first time in my life, like my

18:03

mom wasn't with it mentally,

18:03

like just trying to get through

18:07

to her. And this is something

18:07

I've been dealing with this past

18:10

few months. And it's been fairly

18:10

devastating. But that thing

18:13

where your loved one, there's

18:13

like something where you're not

18:16

connecting, it hurts, it's

18:16

really

18:18

hard. Very

18:18

hard. It's a big loss. It's it's

18:23

it is little, they're little

18:23

deaths along the way, you know,

18:28

we have to come to come to terms

18:28

with you know, and so you grieve

18:34

them as quickly as possible. And

18:34

then you go to the next new

18:37

normal, the next new normal.

18:40

Yes, yes, it's

18:40

that next new normal? What's

18:42

that accepting with? For

18:42

example, you know, you almost I

18:45

know some people, of course,

18:45

have both parents will be sick

18:48

at the same time. And I don't

18:48

know, I guess I was naive to

18:51

think I could really

18:51

compartmentalize it, okay, when

18:53

dad passes, we can focus on mom,

18:53

and she can be free from being

18:56

intense caregiver again, and do

18:56

all these nice things. And then

19:00

I realized, Oh, my God, she's so

19:00

vulnerable and needs help. And I

19:03

need to think about, you know,

19:03

maybe I need to move back. My

19:07

mom's in New Jersey, and maybe I

19:07

need to move back. Maybe we'll

19:10

live in New York City area

19:10

together, somebody like making a

19:13

plan in that way, you know, all

19:13

that stuff that I'm

19:17

recalibrating, once again, you

19:17

know, it's that recalibration,

19:20

it's that feeling of that

19:20

sinking in quicksand, but if I

19:23

can be prepared for it, although

19:23

usually can't really prepare for

19:27

these things. No,

19:28

you can just prepare for being unprepared. Is that right? So

19:30

you just know that things are

19:34

going to happen that you're not

19:34

going to expect and like how can

19:37

you you know, be resilient to it

19:37

and you know, and also

19:44

acknowledge your own your own

19:44

journey, which is difficult. So

19:49

you you know, that's I think for

19:49

me like being always wanting to

19:53

be strong for my mom, and and

19:53

coming in with the best face my

19:58

dog and pony show and not

19:58

wanting to make her feel like

20:01

she's making me feel sad,

20:01

because I know she wouldn't like

20:04

that. So I would try to always

20:04

be stoic, but you have to honor

20:07

your own, you know, journey

20:07

through it. Which, you know, in

20:13

part of, I think what you're

20:13

doing, you know, like, like,

20:16

even like, I wouldn't say that

20:16

this film, I wouldn't do my film

20:22

as a way to, to come to, to

20:22

grips with my mother's, you

20:26

know, this, the last chapter of

20:26

her life, that it's too much

20:32

work and too hard. But on the

20:32

other hand, you know, it's

20:36

really for a bigger purpose. But

20:36

it does help you put it into

20:40

perspective, and to look at it

20:40

with, you know, a more objective

20:45

eye, if you can't, you know, it

20:45

as objective as we can be with

20:49

it. Right. But I think that it

20:49

does it. It certainly doesn't, I

20:54

don't think make it worse. I

20:54

think if anything, it helps you,

20:57

you know, process.

21:02

Absolutely, in

21:02

every step of writing, this show

21:04

has been harder than anything

21:04

I've ever done before. Because

21:07

even if I've written things that

21:07

were inspired by my life or

21:10

reality, it was never about my

21:10

life. And so you have this, like

21:14

pressure to honor that you you

21:14

have the same thing like to

21:18

honor this huge subject you care

21:18

so much about and your your

21:22

actual family member, you know,

21:22

that's a lot of pressure, you're

21:25

like, Oh, my God, how do I how

21:25

do I even put something like

21:28

this into words? How do I take

21:28

the stories I've told over and

21:32

over again about my life to

21:32

other people in conversation,

21:35

and actually serve it up? How do

21:35

I summarize? You know, it, to

21:41

maintain

21:42

their their dignity?

21:42

You know, because you're talking

21:45

about things that maybe, you

21:45

know, hard when you're talking

21:48

about, you know, your loved one

21:48

and how they would feel if they,

21:51

you know, I mean, obviously, he

21:51

still had his mental capacity.

21:56

So, you waited till it was all

21:56

you wouldn't started writing

22:00

during this did how'd you or

22:00

maybe you did, I don't, I

22:02

did, because I

22:02

always had this desire to, like

22:08

they were so there's such a deep

22:08

loneliness in suffering through

22:12

anything by yourself that you

22:12

feel people can't relate to. So

22:15

I always had a desire to depict,

22:15

I wanted people to understand

22:19

better, I wanted them to

22:19

understand better what it's

22:22

like, to really live with a

22:22

wheelchair, like wouldn't be

22:26

getting the caregiving like,

22:26

look what the dressing was,

22:28

like, what a stroke actually is,

22:28

because we didn't know how to

22:31

spot one. And if I can tell your

22:31

audience real quick how to spot

22:34

a stroke FASD T, fast Face

22:34

drooping arm weakness, speech,

22:40

difficulty time to call 911

22:40

Immediately, the only thing you

22:43

can do is get to the hospital to

22:43

snap a stroke immediately. My

22:47

mom didn't know he was having a

22:47

stroke, because she thought it

22:49

was a heart attack. She tried to

22:49

give him an aspirin, that kind

22:52

of thing. So we didn't even know

22:52

that that was a direct. I know

22:57

that maybe other people know

22:57

this, but high blood pressure

23:00

stroke. So watch out for that.

23:00

And also for me that he was

23:04

healthy, very healthy. And other

23:04

Aside from this, and it was his

23:08

sleep apnea that caused his high

23:08

blood pressure. So snoring can

23:12

lead to a stroke and people

23:12

should know, they should know

23:15

because this is devastating.

23:15

What happened. Yeah,

23:18

I it's something I

23:18

have. And yeah, it's I've heard

23:25

you know, you hear it, you hear

23:25

it, but yeah, you'd never think

23:27

oh, yeah, but that's not well

23:27

just monitor your blood

23:30

pressure. Just monitor and I do and I do. Yeah. And it's under

23:32

control right now. So that's

23:36

your information. It's not like if

23:37

you snore, you're gonna have a

23:41

stroke. It's more watch out for

23:41

your blood pressure. If

23:44

I think if

23:44

you snore, other people are

23:47

gonna have a stroke, because you're

23:49

exactly keeping them

23:49

from because they won't sleep.

23:53

Yeah, and that was

23:53

it. I mean, my dad is so crazy,

23:56

but so that had been I mean, you

23:56

know, it is one of those things

24:01

where it's like, he knew right

24:01

he drank in moderation, smoke he

24:04

was he did exercise and stuff

24:04

and it's still you know, he got

24:07

it got really bad so that and

24:07

then we're stressing the fact

24:12

that he was all this other stuff

24:12

going on, but either way that

24:15

was to me and you talked about

24:15

little duck like that happened

24:19

when I was 29 years old 2010 And

24:19

that was actually for me harder

24:24

to deal with his stroke than his

24:24

passing because I guess it was

24:31

like the introduction to intense

24:31

loss you know, the loss of his

24:37

physical identity the way that

24:37

he's role as father with his

24:42

physical mobility but more than

24:42

that physical mobility it really

24:45

was him not being able to talk

24:45

anymore. I you know, it's funny

24:50

the things you think about like

24:50

I realized there's this like two

24:53

levels of missing like

24:53

yesterday, I just saw this image

24:56

of really gorgeous chocolate

24:56

chip cookies, and I missed To my

25:00

dad's chocolate chip cookies,

25:00

but those are from before, like,

25:04

that's from when they're, you

25:04

know, 14 years ago that he could

25:08

last make his chocolate chip

25:08

cookies. So this is an old

25:11

nothing, it's not the data had

25:11

later it was making these and

25:16

it's strange how the death has

25:16

made me reconcile with the old

25:19

version of the way dad and with

25:19

the other, like, there's these

25:23

two versions and I get it.

25:26

I talk

25:26

about because I became mommy

25:29

towards the end. And and I

25:29

really, like I vote my mom was

25:35

always my, my best friend and I

25:35

loved her and admired her and

25:39

just had a ball with her. And,

25:39

but in that last stages, like,

25:46

it was like she was my daughter

25:46

and I fell in love with her like

25:49

a mother would to a child

25:49

because I am a mother. And and I

25:54

miss, like I missed fiercely

25:54

what you're talking about in the

25:57

beginning because it was a 16

25:57

year you know, journey with

26:02

Alzheimer's. I did have those

26:02

deaths and missed all those

26:05

things. But once I you know,

26:05

transitioned into mommy with my

26:09

mom, I miss that mommy, I missed

26:09

that one that I took care of the

26:16

most. And and because it was

26:16

such a pure, she was so pure and

26:20

so vulnerable. And like doing

26:20

the documentary and looking at

26:25

her face that that we have to

26:25

edit all the time. And I always

26:28

tell dawn I missed that face.

26:28

You know, and and that's not her

26:35

face. It's not the face that I

26:35

grew up with. It's the face that

26:39

I helped shepherd and yeah,

26:45

you just made me

26:45

think of this feeling I had you

26:47

know, I'm sure you've had many

26:47

times you had to go to the

26:50

hospital over and over again.

26:50

And you just remind me this

26:53

feeling was of going to the

26:53

hospital and like looking for my

26:56

dad's room because it was like a

26:56

new thing so I didn't know where

26:59

his room was and like you know

26:59

when you like scan through all

27:02

the rooms and all the beds and

27:02

all the faces that you don't

27:04

know and then you like land on

27:04

when it's your first than those

27:08

eyes like that that moment in

27:08

the hospital where you're like

27:10

looking at all this seems

27:10

strange faces and you like

27:14

random more person? They're not

27:14

strange and there's like

27:17

something about that. That

27:17

feeling? I don't know. Yeah, but

27:21

face and what they are like, I

27:21

mean, my dad, that's all they

27:24

had. You can do. Yes. No. Okay.

27:24

Mostly everything was was said

27:29

with the word. Okay. And we did

27:29

the guessing game the dog and

27:33

pony show you mentioned like,

27:33

the guessing game was just such

27:36

a big part of our life. But he

27:36

made jokes. I mean, my favorite

27:39

joke used to make because he

27:39

would like hide behind an object

27:42

that was obviously too small

27:42

like hide behind the coffee mug

27:45

like it was so cute. He was

27:45

using what he had you know, he

27:50

was using right could do and he

27:50

would make jokes and sometimes

27:55

you know, I remember the first

27:55

father's day after the stroke

27:59

like how much I resented it like

27:59

I was so like upset because I it

28:07

was too much like the instant

28:07

movement from my big strong dad

28:12

to this like someone who was

28:12

cute. Or in Bihar, like this

28:16

idea of like old person is cute.

28:16

It was something that was so

28:21

like, I wasn't ready for it. I

28:21

didn't like it. I didn't like

28:25

people talking to my dad or

28:25

looking at my dad or, or

28:28

thinking about our parents like

28:28

cute people. It's like a

28:31

dismissive kind of thing that. I

28:31

mean, it bugs me about old

28:35

people and older people in

28:35

general how, you know, people

28:40

act like they're just these

28:40

adorable or fragile or feeble

28:44

things. It's like, you don't

28:44

know how badass this person

28:46

might have been? Like, you don't

28:46

know what, like Miss Harrison

28:50

could have been an actual

28:50

gangster like you have no idea.

28:54

I think

28:54

about that all the time. I used

28:57

to I used to my mom was an

28:57

amazing singer. And I had all of

29:01

her tracks and she had a she had

29:01

a deal at Capitol Records side

29:05

all these songs from the 60s

29:05

that she did and when she

29:08

recorded there and I would play

29:08

them because people would just

29:11

do that like to humanize her and

29:11

she became just a great lump,

29:14

right? And so I would play the

29:14

music every time I was there and

29:18

people would walk by and go, who

29:18

is that? Singing? I go that's

29:22

her the lady in bed. That one

29:22

that amazing woman because

29:27

people forget and and just just

29:27

to backtrack on how I felt about

29:33

my mom towards the end. As my

29:33

child it's not infantilizing her

29:38

it was more about knowing the

29:38

stage that she was at and giving

29:44

her grace to be at that stage

29:44

and it's okay, and that I was

29:48

there for her. And then I wanted

29:48

to give her dignity, but I had

29:51

to respect the stage that she

29:51

was at physically, cognitively

29:57

and spiritually. Right. So And

29:57

then and, and that is a hard

30:02

thing to do, because we don't

30:02

want to, you know, my mom was

30:05

fierce, and was independent and,

30:05

you know, just a force of

30:09

nature. And so to see her I

30:09

still saw that in her no one

30:15

else would have, but I saw it.

30:15

But you know, but I also had to

30:19

allow her the respect to to let

30:19

her be where she was. And even

30:25

though I missed that other mom

30:25

fiercely Yeah, absolutely, very,

30:30

it's very, it's very

30:30

complicated.

30:33

I completely

30:33

understand that feeling. Like,

30:36

interestingly, I guess, maybe

30:36

because it was my dad that had

30:39

stroke, I felt this immediate

30:39

thing, and my family tried to

30:43

buck up and be the dad, but I

30:43

had to just take, I just tried

30:45

to take care of stuff and show

30:45

up in that way. I mean, it

30:50

really like very literal ways,

30:50

like my dad loved garden

30:54

gardening. And when my dad was

30:54

in the acute rehab center after

30:58

the stroke, I went home, and I

30:58

went, like out of this huge

31:01

garden in New Jersey, and I like

31:01

went up sort of like, Alright,

31:05

I'm gonna do this thing. No

31:05

idea, like, looked at it. And I

31:08

was like, Okay, I have no idea.

31:08

I don't know what any of those

31:11

things were popping about a gun,

31:11

like, I'm just gonna try to fake

31:14

something else. But I do think

31:14

that my mom and my sister have

31:20

sort of said as much that about

31:20

the role that I've taken. We

31:25

that, you know, we're you

31:25

parental fi, I guess is another

31:28

term I've heard, where I'm kind

31:28

of like, okay, how can I step

31:33

in? Now? How can I take care of

31:33

business and sort things out?

31:36

And that part of it I could

31:36

handle where I'm like, okay,

31:39

what can I do to help the

31:39

situation, I can handle that the

31:42

harder part is more recently,

31:42

with my mom being ruined

31:45

scammed, and us not being able

31:45

to get through to her. Which we

31:50

have finally gotten through to

31:50

her, which is great, but just

31:54

the thought of, I didn't like

31:54

signing Power of Attorney for my

31:57

dad, but we needed to I didn't

31:57

like that we had to do that,

31:59

that mentally thinking like,

31:59

they acknowledge that, you know,

32:03

paper acknowledgement of

32:03

diminished capacity. But then we

32:07

explored that for a minimum. And

32:07

that was to me, like, that's a

32:09

bridge too far. Like, yeah, I

32:09

do. Like, she's definitely like

32:13

with it on so many levels. she's

32:13

not, she's not a little old

32:17

lady. Like, I just hate that.

32:17

She's vulnerable. She's not her

32:22

full self that she was. But she

32:22

is with it in so many ways. And

32:28

she just needs to grieve not

32:28

just the loss of laid out. But

32:34

she really, you know, this

32:34

happened when she was 60 years

32:36

old. And she was working in New

32:36

York City as this, like very

32:40

active business woman and and

32:40

loved her life. She loved

32:44

working and being a part of New

32:44

York City and all that goes with

32:47

it, and to grieve that sudden

32:47

loss becoming a full time

32:52

caregiver. And so she needs to

32:52

reconcile and work through all

32:56

that stuff. And I really think

32:56

she has hoped to get herself

32:59

back because she doesn't have an

32:59

actual condition other than

33:02

being like a truck read over her

33:02

heart.

33:08

You know, real

33:08

thing. I mean, it is.

33:11

I mean,

33:11

it's, there's nothing more

33:13

devastating. I mean, this is a

33:13

whole life is like, shifted in,

33:18

in a in a flat one second, you

33:18

know, it's like, I lost my dad

33:22

when I was 16. And he died in a

33:22

plane crash. And it was, like I

33:25

say, you know, like, I've had

33:25

experiences of both. So I had my

33:28

mom who was took 16 years to

33:28

exit. And my father who was

33:33

ripped out of life, I that's how

33:33

it feels like he was at the top

33:37

of his career in the music

33:37

industry, and flying a plane

33:41

back from Mexico City, and he

33:41

crashed, and he died. Just like

33:45

that. And, and, you know, so

33:45

there's, there's all different

33:50

kinds of losses. And, you know,

33:50

for your mom, like the lifestyle

33:55

is, so it's, it's huge. I mean,

33:55

that is a death. So all those

34:02

deaths that happen, right, so

34:02

your lifestyle, your, your, your

34:08

perspective, your perception of

34:08

yourself, and how you fit into

34:11

this world, as as a wife, so now

34:11

she's not a wife anymore. All of

34:17

those things, and then now she's

34:17

13 years old or older. Right?

34:21

And, you know, I know like, I'm

34:21

hitting a stage where I'm going,

34:26

wow. So I have I, you know,

34:26

Flink in your 90 And it's like,

34:31

whoa, so, you know, 13 years is

34:31

a long time. And now your mom

34:36

needs to reconcile that and how

34:36

does she you know, she's not

34:40

going to get those 13 years

34:40

back. So how does she make the

34:44

best of what is coming? Right

34:44

knowing that that is not either,

34:50

you know, we all are by the

34:50

grace of God. So I get it where

34:54

your mom is going through. It's

34:54

a tremendous amount of, you

34:58

know, loss and and

34:58

responsibility to herself to to

35:04

get to figure out how to get

35:04

back on track if it's possible,

35:08

if possible. I

35:09

think it is

35:09

possible. We just got her knees

35:12

replaced because her knees were

35:12

worn out by caregiving. And then

35:14

I messed up my knee, I mean,

35:14

then helping her. I mean, it was

35:18

a combination of that. And my

35:18

knees were already worn from

35:21

working on set, because it's

35:21

physically brutal. But there's

35:24

like this cycle of, you know,

35:24

there was I just so thankful

35:29

though, that my mom survived

35:29

this because my mom's mother

35:32

died caregiving for my oha. So

35:32

we were all set, we had an

35:37

intervention with her months

35:37

before my dad passed, like all

35:40

of my mom's from Holland. And it

35:40

was like all her brothers and

35:42

sisters, and we sat down with

35:42

her, like, you can't keep going

35:45

like this, like, you're gonna

35:45

burn out. We don't want you to

35:47

go like you're like, oh, Lon.

35:47

And, you know, it was a kind of

35:52

thing, right? I wanted my dad to

35:52

pass and I wanted him to pass

35:56

peacefully, because this was

35:56

just, to me what my mom was

36:00

trapped in. And what my dad was

36:00

trapped in, was devastating.

36:06

However, it was interesting that

36:06

despite how difficult life was,

36:11

my dad was really fighting to

36:11

not go like he was really, in

36:15

his death, the time of his

36:15

death, you could see him really

36:19

trying to stay with us, which

36:19

was a beautiful thing. So I was

36:23

very, like, been off the death

36:23

process. But yeah, it was

36:27

amazing.

36:27

Well, then that's

36:27

you should feel be you know,

36:29

then that's because of you and

36:29

your mom, you know, he had

36:32

something to live for Still,

36:32

despite everything, he still had

36:35

something to live for. Because

36:35

you were giving him that life.

36:38

You were you know, you were you

36:38

were providing him that love and

36:42

something to hold on to. So I do

36:42

have a question when because

36:46

Susie will tell you that when

36:46

her mom was first diagnosed, she

36:50

she thought she was going to fix

36:50

it. She thought she was going to

36:53

you know, just by sheer Well,

36:53

she was going to fix this. We're

36:57

going to conquer this. Was there

36:57

ever that feeling because I mean

37:00

with yours? It's a fit, you

37:00

know, with Alzheimer's. It's a

37:02

progressive thing. This was like

37:02

bam, now, and the doctors, I'm

37:05

sure gave you what the prognosis

37:05

was. Did you ever feel that? No,

37:09

we're gonna, I'm gonna fix this

37:09

thing. Oh,

37:12

yes, we did. For

37:12

years, we fought so hard because

37:16

with strokes, physical speech

37:16

and occupational therapy are

37:19

three therapies you can go

37:19

through to get certain things

37:21

back. And there's a certain time

37:21

window where people can get

37:23

things back, they can get their

37:23

speech back, they can get their

37:26

mobility back, they can get

37:26

their motor skills back. But

37:30

with my dad's case, God did we

37:30

fight for it, the things that we

37:33

did. We took every kind of

37:33

therapy, everyone's had just all

37:37

these things, and you're Vikings

37:37

and every it's extensor then you

37:40

try so hard. We haven't even

37:40

tried to let my dad drive again.

37:46

She put him in the cars and

37:46

empty parking. We'd like and she

37:50

had random emergency. I mean,

37:50

she we did all of it. Like my

37:54

mom, especially pork did not

37:54

give up fighting like we tried

37:59

to take them places where it was

37:59

obviously insane. To have a

38:03

very, like partially very like a

38:03

lot of him paralyzed man on an

38:08

airplane airplanes are not very

38:08

accessible. They just really

38:11

aren't and we guarded but we

38:11

took him to France to Holland

38:15

cruise. We tried all this stuff

38:15

and all I got all of it. Every

38:19

time was devastating because

38:19

they everything that says it's

38:22

handicap accessible. Most of the

38:22

time, 75% of the time, it really

38:26

isn't like, Oh, you didn't think

38:26

this these steps here like we're

38:30

gonna be a problem for the

38:30

wheelchair. Like, how is it like

38:35

there's not bars in this bad or

38:35

like stuff that seems really

38:39

basic are often just oh yeah,

38:39

let's try a beach wheelchair.

38:42

Well, my dad, you know, his

38:42

digestive system was also

38:44

partially paralyzed. So he was

38:44

huge. He was already six foot

38:47

one. So if you've ever tried

38:47

like pushing a frickin beach

38:51

wheelchair over the dudes, the

38:51

Jersey Shore Oh. Always think

38:57

that it seems so nice. But I

38:57

knew it was just such a struggle

39:03

to enjoy things still. But we

39:03

bought we tried. And yes, we

39:08

tried very hard to get things

39:08

back. Well, this is one other

39:12

little thing that I always think

39:12

about was in the parking lot at

39:17

there. It was the Kessler rehab

39:17

center in Chester, New Jersey. I

39:22

was like fresh off his stroke.

39:22

And I said to the nurse in

39:24

theory, you know, my dad and I

39:24

we always like, I move a lot in

39:29

New York City and rebuild

39:29

furniture, like build a key

39:33

together. Do you think you'll

39:33

ever be able to do that again?

39:36

And she gave me this look in my

39:36

life like oh, no, never but she

39:39

was? Yeah, sure. Sure. You never

39:39

know. It was the know in her

39:47

eyes. And it was I probably knew

39:47

the answer, but I had something

39:51

about letting go of that.

39:51

Because we burned in so much

39:56

doing that I had to let go of

39:56

it. I had until I just asked

40:00

her. Yeah,

40:03

yeah, no, I

40:03

get it. I get it. It happens

40:06

with every like, you know, I

40:06

remember the first person that

40:10

really laid out the truth to me

40:10

about Alzheimer's was Leeza

40:14

Gibbons. And Lisa was like, she

40:14

was a friend of a friend. So

40:18

this was like, 16 years ago, we

40:18

went to lunch. And she said, I

40:21

know it doesn't seem like it's

40:21

going to progress, but it's

40:24

going to progress. And I know

40:24

that, you know, you're not going

40:28

to know it, and you're going to

40:28

turn around and you're, you've

40:31

lost a whole nother part of her.

40:31

So and she was the one that

40:36

encouraged me to take photos and

40:36

videos, so I don't forget. And,

40:39

you know, and, and I remember

40:39

sitting at lunch thinking, yeah,

40:42

that's your mom, that's not

40:42

gonna be my mom. My mom said,

40:45

it's not gonna happen to my mom.

40:45

I just thought it was everyone

40:48

else's mom, or dad, you know, it

40:48

wasn't gonna happen to my mom,

40:51

because it's different. But you

40:51

know, then we quickly realized

40:55

that we are not, you know,

40:55

Superman and Superwoman. And we

41:01

are gonna, we're gonna have to

41:01

put on our cape in a different

41:05

way. And, you know, and deal

41:05

with what we've got. So wow,

41:13

you're, you're very raw right

41:13

now. I feel it.

41:17

Yeah. And there's a couple of things you said? Well, the superhero thing I

41:20

always think of, say that I

41:23

think caregivers are the real

41:23

superheroes of the world. You

41:26

know, they bring on their pet on

41:26

their backs and their shoulders.

41:29

And there was something else you said about the recording, there's an actual line in my

41:30

show about, you know, how, what

41:34

I went through with my dad made

41:34

me realize I have to record

41:37

things, I don't lose them,

41:37

because I really didn't have. I

41:40

mean, it was 2010. So like,

41:40

smartphones didn't come until a

41:43

couple years after that. So I

41:43

don't, it really didn't have a

41:45

recording of his voice or

41:45

talking of the soul.

41:51

I know, I

41:51

know, when my dad too, because,

41:54

you know, my dad Oh, so long

41:54

ago, and I was like, you know, I

41:58

mean, he was such a technophile,

41:58

we had, you know, eight

42:01

millimeters and stuff like that,

42:01

and, you know, Super Eight or

42:04

whatever it was at the time,

42:04

but, you know, I haven't heard

42:08

my dad's voice since I'm 16. So

42:08

I, I've missed that so much.

42:13

And, and he had one of those,

42:13

like, you walk into a room and

42:16

you know, he's there kind of

42:16

guy, you know, and he's like,

42:18

this big booming masculine guy

42:18

with, you know, tons of charisma

42:23

and you're just like, I wish I

42:23

could just hear that voice

42:26

because it's been so long. You

42:26

had I feel like especially

42:30

like your mom

42:30

being a recording artists and

42:32

your dad having you have those,

42:32

but you're filming the wrong

42:34

thing, like you're filming this

42:34

beach film Uribe? June.

42:37

I know. It

42:37

there's a quick anecdote, I went

42:42

to take all my mom's vinyl and

42:42

had it digitized. And I went to

42:46

you know, a there's the this

42:46

legendary master who masters

42:51

from records and are mastered

42:51

onto records called Bernie

42:54

Grundmann. And it turns out that

42:54

my father was his mentor, I

42:58

didn't know that my father was

42:58

was very big in that industry.

43:01

And when I was there, they were

43:01

still using my father's

43:04

equipment. And so Bernie

43:04

Grundmann will happen to be

43:07

there. And he came to tell me

43:07

all about my dad, like all these

43:09

anecdotes, and how all this how

43:09

bigger than life he was. And he

43:13

was saying, he was explained to

43:13

me because I said, I said, it's

43:16

so odd, because I don't

43:16

understand. Here's my father who

43:19

invented the conversion from

43:19

mono to stereo was one of the

43:21

top engineers of his day, and I

43:21

do not understand how the sound

43:25

gets into the vinyl like, go I

43:25

do not understand it. So Bernie

43:29

was trying to tell me it's just

43:29

like your eardrum, it's all you

43:32

know, pulses. And the pulse goes

43:32

into the to the cutter and the

43:36

cutter puts those pulses into

43:36

the vinyl. Right? And he said,

43:39

and at the time when your dad

43:39

was doing it and he was teaching

43:43

me said You know, it's very,

43:43

it's very sensitive, it picks up

43:45

all sounds so at that time, you

43:45

have to be very quiet. Well, my

43:49

he goes, have you ever do you

43:49

ever remember your father being

43:51

quiet? No. So and he said,

43:51

there's so many times where he

43:54

would be talking and it would

43:54

get into the recording that they

43:57

were like mastering onto the

43:57

value. And I said you have to

44:00

find those for me because I

44:00

haven't heard his voice in so

44:02

long. But I so I haven't been

44:02

able to follow up with him and

44:06

get it but I know His voice is

44:06

out there on some vinyl. That

44:13

would be such a it would be like

44:13

strange, and I don't know, it

44:21

just would be incredible, but I

44:21

understand what you're saying.

44:26

So tell us about your show.

44:26

Where is it? It's opening in

44:29

June?

44:31

Yes, it's in June

44:31

at the Hollywood Fringe

44:33

Festival. So there's five shows

44:33

this June at the Hudson

44:36

theatres, um, which is there.

44:36

It's on Santa Monica Boulevard.

44:40

And it's also I booked an

44:40

accessible theater that was

44:43

important to me. And and the

44:43

first show well, the preview is

44:50

June 8, and then I believe it's

44:50

the fifth to the 23rd, the 27th

44:54

and the 29th. It's mostly

44:54

weekends, but there is one

44:56

Thursday the 27th and Yeah, so

44:56

part of Hollywood fringe, you

45:02

can look up quick sound

45:02

Hollywood. If you I think if you

45:05

just Google quicksand Hollywood

45:05

Fringe Festival, or quicksand,

45:09

and my name Heather Fink, you'll

45:09

find a link to buy ticket.

45:12

That's

45:13

great. No,

45:13

I'm definitely, we're definitely

45:15

gonna go and see you are you

45:15

going to record it, you're gonna

45:18

have somebody record it,

45:21

I am going to

45:21

record it. I thought about

45:24

having a live stream, but I

45:24

decided against it because the

45:26

show is first of all, so

45:26

intimate. And I really look at

45:29

this show as a first run, like,

45:29

I want to do it more, I want to

45:33

bring it to New York, I want to

45:33

make it even longer because I

45:36

have a couple of musical numbers

45:36

that we're spending time. And

45:39

this is an hour, so I love it.

45:39

So I just want to keep

45:43

developing and doing it more.

45:43

And this to me feels like a

45:45

first run beginning of

45:45

something. And because it's five

45:49

shows that I really liked, I

45:49

hope to fill those seeds. But I

45:52

know for friends, it's normal to

45:52

do that many shows. I hoped to

45:55

maybe go to the Edinburgh

45:55

Fringe, which is like the big

45:57

center of the Fringe Festival

45:57

next year. Yeah, so I just want

46:01

to keep developing and doing

46:01

more and more and hearing from

46:05

audience hearing from people

46:05

who've been through this, like

46:08

doing you feel seen in this.

46:08

What do you want to know more

46:11

about? I want to hear from

46:11

people as well. And I hope to

46:15

make this a television show. And

46:15

I want to incorporate so as much

46:18

of this world through this. What

46:18

would be a family instead of

46:22

drama idiom calling it a trauma?

46:25

Comedy,

46:25

that's so great. To comedy.

46:29

That's great.

46:31

Is there is there

46:31

anything as we as we've been

46:34

working on the documentary, you

46:34

know, we there's so much you

46:37

know, it's obviously about

46:37

Susie's mom. And there's some

46:39

moments and you know that Suzy

46:39

just like can you please fast

46:43

forward through that. And we've had, she's had to compartmentalize and I have to

46:45

because I was very close with

46:48

her mom, just so we can get

46:48

through it and really treat it

46:51

like it's like this? Or is there

46:51

certain parts, either as you

46:54

were writing or as you're

46:54

rehearsing, performing, that

46:57

consistently hit you? And how do

46:57

you deal with that? You just use

47:01

it? Or you just say, No, I gotta

47:01

put that aside, and, and what

47:04

are you gonna be enough to tell me all of them?

47:07

Well, yes,

47:07

absolutely writing it. And the

47:10

crazy part too, is that there's

47:10

so much because I can't have the

47:14

show be too long. That's not

47:14

pleasant for the listener, or

47:18

for the audience. So I do have

47:18

to pick and choose. And I'm

47:21

caught a lot of stories and

47:21

stories that I feel are

47:23

essential. And I've really

47:23

focused it down to what I think

47:27

are the most important focuses

47:27

for the show. But as I was

47:30

writing it, getting it out. It's

47:30

such a normal thing as a

47:36

creative or a writer that when

47:36

you write anything, you'll beat

47:40

yourself up, you'll get this

47:40

self doubt thing that goes, Oh,

47:42

this isn't good. Or this is

47:42

hard, or it's not coming out,

47:45

right? Or what business do I

47:45

have the data, you go through

47:48

all that stuff. So I knew that

47:48

that was familiar when I started

47:51

facing that. But in this it was

47:51

even more like I was

47:55

procrastinating big time. And it

47:55

was like either you have now

47:59

write the scene, write the

47:59

scene, because so much. If I

48:03

were to tell you specifics, I'll

48:03

tell you what I actually tell

48:05

him the show is stuff that's

48:05

gonna be hard every time I tell

48:08

the actual story of his death, I

48:08

tell it very specifically,

48:12

because I don't think natural

48:12

death is depicted, I just don't

48:17

think it's depicted much at all

48:17

in a real way. You know, murders

48:21

and bang, bang, you get shot

48:21

kind of deaths are depicted. So

48:24

I do tell the story of his death. And I tell the story of his stroke. And I also give a

48:26

lot of backstory of myself and

48:30

my family, because part of the

48:30

concept of quicksand is how we

48:36

lose ourselves in these things.

48:36

So I want to sort of set up,

48:39

okay, here's who we were, here's

48:39

who I was on. And I want to ask

48:44

the question of like, Am I still

48:44

that person? Have I lost we

48:48

always talk about, you know, as

48:48

we get older, or I'm not that

48:51

person anymore, but like what

48:51

parts of us still really are

48:54

always are, what parts are lost

48:54

or what parts? What is actually

48:57

game like that we've grown. So I

48:57

asked a lot of those kinds of

49:00

questions. But I cut out some of

49:00

my really favorite super fun

49:05

stories from my own life too,

49:05

because I was like, the point of

49:08

anything I'm going to share

49:08

about myself has to be the story

49:12

of my own life's personal goal.

49:12

So I'm going to tell you about

49:15

that stuff. I'm going to cut

49:15

this other stuff out. And then

49:19

with my parents and my dad, I

49:19

sort of did want to set up what

49:22

was going on in our lives before

49:22

that. And I want to tell you the

49:26

story of the stroke, but part of

49:26

the roof. Okay, so one thing

49:28

I'll say is I sort of do this

49:28

clown like, demonstration of

49:35

caregiving, which I think you

49:35

can imagine could easily lend

49:38

itself to common care caregiving

49:38

for someone's eye. That's

49:42

something that I do, because I

49:42

think rather than tell you all

49:46

of these specific stories, I

49:46

will rather take you into the

49:51

emotional healing we're doing.

49:51

So I've sort of summarized some

49:57

of the stories because I'm

49:57

mindful of audience I'm mindful

49:59

of they're getting something out

49:59

of it instead of just like

50:02

exhausting them with like this

50:02

happened this happened this

50:04

happened. But so because the

50:04

answer your question about

50:09

what's been hard to get through,

50:09

it's so hard talking about

50:13

yourself and trying to summarize

50:13

yourself, period, whether it's

50:16

the happy moments or the sad

50:16

Romans and owning up to your

50:21

own, like midlife crisis career

50:21

failures in the entertainment

50:24

industry. I mean, that's doesn't

50:24

feel great. But I think it's

50:28

worthwhile because I know other

50:28

people connect, I think even

50:31

super successful people feel

50:31

like failures in this business,

50:35

because it's designed to make

50:35

you feel inadequate. It's

50:37

design, though.

50:39

Yeah, yeah,

50:39

I relate to it. Even in the

50:42

documentary, I knew that we had

50:42

to establish my relationship

50:46

with my mom and who I was at

50:46

before and who and what my life,

50:51

like, being one of the, one of

50:51

the people in the the was there

51:00

was the chaplain from hospice

51:00

came in, wrote wrote about me,

51:06

in the notes in the medical

51:06

records, saying, you know, this

51:09

poor girl has dedicated her

51:09

entire life to her mother, and,

51:12

you know, I'm so worried about

51:12

what will happen after her what

51:15

her life will be, like, after

51:15

her mother dies. And I was so

51:19

offended by that because of her,

51:19

you know, shallowness to even

51:24

write something like that. I

51:24

didn't, that my fear was that is

51:28

there anybody out there that

51:28

would think that I was this

51:30

helicopter daughter, I wasn't a

51:30

helicopter daughter, I had a

51:34

life, I have children, I have a

51:34

career I, I dance I, I do that,

51:39

you know, and I wanted to show

51:39

that I'm a full person. And then

51:43

I was watching it, you know, in

51:43

our first cut, and I'm like, Oh,

51:45

my God cut me out. There's too

51:45

much of me. It's like too much.

51:49

Right? And, and, you know, there

51:49

is the, the coming to Jesus kind

51:53

of like, you know, looking at

51:53

yourself and going, you know, is

51:56

that important? Where, what, how

51:56

does it support the message

52:01

we're trying to make, and that

52:01

is very difficult, from, you

52:05

know, our perspective as writers

52:05

and creators, and then the

52:08

people who are, are, you know,

52:08

deeply enmeshed in this

52:13

narrative, you know, so it is,

52:13

it is quite a challenge. And I

52:17

understand that what you're

52:17

saying completely 100% and it's

52:22

very delicate. It's a delicate

52:22

dance. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.

52:27

There isn't gonna

52:27

moment like of jokes I cut out,

52:30

I had sort of like a joking

52:30

moment about my, I mentioned the

52:34

scamming of my moment, too raw

52:34

for me to hate it. I don't want

52:38

to make fun of it. So sorry,

52:38

audience, you're not getting

52:42

that laugh. Like I'm, I'm not

52:42

giving recall, as personal as it

52:46

can be what we're doing. Very

52:48

personal.

52:48

And, you know, and I do think

52:51

that, you know, I'll credit Phil

52:51

Rosenthal, I got to saw I saw

52:56

him talk, my friend, moderated a

52:56

talk with him, who was the

53:00

showrunner many things. But you

53:00

know, everyone loves Raymond.

53:03

And he talks about how, you

53:03

know, universality is in the

53:07

details. And so, you know, I

53:07

always remembered that, because

53:10

when I was doing my mom and the

53:10

girl, which was my, my film

53:12

about my mom for Alzheimer's, I

53:12

kept that in mind was very much

53:17

in my forefront, thinking that,

53:17

you know, oh, is this is anyone

53:22

going to relate to this? This is

53:22

our story. It's so it's so

53:25

nuanced to our relationship to

53:25

our life. And then I remember

53:30

him saying that, that that, you

53:30

know, that the universality is

53:34

in the details. And that's how

53:34

you reach people. So you have to

53:38

have, and he's right. So you

53:38

have to have faith in that. And,

53:43

you know, and we saw that

53:43

firsthand, like, Don, and I did

53:46

the festival circuit with that

53:46

film. And, you know, it was

53:49

tremendously successful. And we,

53:49

we, and besides

53:53

being in the edit

53:53

bay, we're like, is anyone care

53:56

gonna care about this? Does this

53:56

relate to anybody? And we were

53:59

like, we weren't, we did not know.

54:02

I didn't know I just had to be truthful and tell the story. And I wanted

54:03

to make sure that I showed, you

54:07

know, that trauma 80 of it, like

54:07

you said, I was totally stealing

54:10

that now, Heather, I love it so

54:10

much. I will credit you,

54:14

you can license it from her.

54:15

I love it.

54:15

I had to show the tragedy of it

54:18

because there was so much comedy

54:18

mom and I related with comedy,

54:22

you know, and that's what I

54:22

loved about Valerie Harper was

54:25

that she had that lovely balance

54:25

of heart empathy and, and the

54:29

funny bone you know, and and it

54:29

was like the perfect she was the

54:35

perfect person to play this

54:35

role. But you know, I had to

54:41

lean into that and say that

54:41

those those moments are what

54:45

will touch people even if it's

54:45

not what happened to them. It's

54:49

the authenticity of it.

54:51

I was I can't wait

54:51

to see your film. I have to see

54:54

that. It sounds like you're

54:54

both. I love that. I have to

54:58

tell you this my family

54:58

Interview I've done because it's

55:01

so rare that you get to connect

55:01

both on like the caregiving and

55:05

elder care elements, but also

55:05

that we're creatives and we are,

55:09

we're trying to take what has

55:09

happened to us and our hearts

55:12

and not just make something of

55:12

it that's useful, but it's maybe

55:16

something that's useful to

55:16

others, you know, so that we

55:19

learn, we can connect. And that

55:19

is such a beautiful quote about,

55:23

you know, the the universality,

55:23

the universality being in the

55:27

details. That's always true for

55:27

comedy, you know, the more

55:30

specific, like a joke or detail

55:30

is, the more someone can laugh,

55:34

because even if it's not their

55:34

detail, it can be next to their

55:38

personal details. I wrapped up

55:38

my real, yeah, authentic, it's

55:42

real, like, the more specific

55:42

the more real. Yeah, so I would

55:45

love love to see your film. And

55:45

there is that thing that like

55:49

when you say something, or it's

55:49

just you buy or there's

55:52

something that's very isolating

55:52

about a solo show, that's like

55:56

in my head for so long, like the

55:56

first time i There is one other,

56:00

there's a quicksand fairy that

56:00

is coming into the middle of the

56:04

show. But that's there's one or

56:04

there person. And when I ran

56:07

lines with her for the first

56:07

time, I had was that satisfying,

56:11

like, Oh, thank God. We're

56:11

having probably the more fun

56:14

part of the show. But yeah, it

56:14

really does feel like a lot. And

56:18

there's been moments where I,

56:18

it's weird to retell the story

56:22

of your dad stuff out in great

56:22

detail over and over again. And

56:25

that's a weird thing to do. Yes,

56:25

and it's probably weird, like

56:29

showing these clips from your

56:29

life, you know, over and over. I

56:33

don't think we detached from it,

56:33

though.

56:35

I can't attach but we can compartmentalize. That's what I

56:37

do. Yeah. You know, because I,

56:41

my biggest fear was my whole

56:41

life is my mom dying my whole

56:44

life. Like, we used to laugh

56:44

about it, she'd go, Well, don't

56:47

worry about it. Because we don't

56:47

die. We're not dying. You and I

56:49

are not dying this week goes,

56:49

We're not going to do it. We

56:52

joke around about it, you know,

56:52

and like, but if anything

56:55

happens to Susie, I'll be

56:55

jumping in right after you. So

56:57

don't worry, you know, we there

56:57

was that kind of thing. And when

57:01

I when it was coming, and I kept

57:01

telling the doctors, she's not

57:03

ready to die. And but I said

57:03

I'll know because we

57:07

communicate, I will know when

57:07

she's done. I know that 100% And

57:12

I had to, you know, woman up,

57:12

you know, for lack of a better

57:16

term, to be there for my mom and

57:16

let her know that I was I was

57:21

you know, I was okay with it.

57:21

Because she knew what a big baby

57:23

I was about it. And I wanted to

57:23

not be the big baby. I wanted to

57:27

be strong for her and me. And

57:27

you know, the last thing I say

57:32

in the final narrate the

57:32

voiceover in the film is that

57:36

you taught me how to live and

57:36

now you're taught me how to die.

57:40

And I watched her die so

57:40

beautifully. And, and I'm glad I

57:49

didn't. I'm glad that I was the

57:49

one. And I'm glad that I got you

57:54

know, I got in I'd like took all

57:54

the tubes out and laid down next

57:58

to her and cuddled on her and

57:58

loved on her. And it was one of

58:02

my favorite moments. It's one of

58:02

my best memories. And I'm glad I

58:05

had that time to do that. And so

58:05

important, and I just felt proud

58:11

of myself. I'm proud of my mom.

58:11

We are like well lived in for

58:16

her being such a badass, strong

58:16

girl for the last six months.

58:20

And I told her You did such a

58:20

good job. I'm so proud of you.

58:25

It's really wild.

58:25

Like how, like, I love you. I

58:30

mean, not hearing you say how

58:30

much the death was beautiful and

58:35

meaningful and powerful to you

58:35

for you. Like that's what I

58:38

experienced too. And I do wish

58:38

people would talk more about

58:41

that because it was miraculous

58:41

when I felt I witnessed so

58:46

agreed and

58:46

I loved my mom more than

58:48

anything and I it was my biggest

58:48

fear. Like I used to just go I

58:52

can't I can't I can't and I had

58:52

a guest on about two years

58:55

before on our show who's still

58:55

my friend now and and Trish love

59:01

and I adore her and she went

59:01

she's very strong empathetic

59:06

woman who is you know close to

59:06

like a death doula and wrote

59:10

books about it and and she told

59:10

me on my podcast before my mom

59:14

died, you know, I wasn't even

59:14

thinking of her dying yet. But I

59:17

just said I don't even like to think about it is going to be my hardest thing in the life. She

59:19

said it's going to be beautiful.

59:22

You're going to be strong and

59:22

you were going to get through it

59:24

because I see you and I had that

59:24

in the back of my mind the whole

59:29

time. And if it wasn't for her

59:29

framing it that way for me. I

59:35

don't know if I would have been

59:35

able to view it like that but I

59:38

went into it because she I

59:38

really trusted this woman and no

59:42

thought it's going to be what it

59:42

is it's going to be as beautiful

59:48

as a birth. Is this death

59:52

that's amazing. I

59:52

mean, I don't know people who

59:55

are death doula is that is such

59:55

a beautiful thing for anyone

59:57

listening to know that your

59:57

death a death can be beautiful.

1:00:01

Or nonviolent, that should

1:00:03

be it.

1:00:03

Yeah. It's a it is an art. It's

1:00:06

honor. It's it's, it's

1:00:06

spiritual, it's a transition.

1:00:10

And in if anything, it should be

1:00:10

the most dignified thing that

1:00:15

you can go through if you do if

1:00:15

at all possible because it is

1:00:19

your it is your moment your exit

1:00:19

should be spectacular. You know,

1:00:26

I made the room as beautiful as

1:00:26

I could in the hospital, I put,

1:00:29

you know, everything I could I

1:00:29

didn't know how to do anything I

1:00:33

just did from my gut, you know,

1:00:33

and I just tried to make it as

1:00:37

peaceful and loving and warm and

1:00:37

safe. So now let's go cry

1:00:45

because now I feel like I did a

1:00:45

little I got a little teary

1:00:51

eyed. Very emotional now. I love

1:00:51

to having you on. This was so

1:00:57

great. I can't wait to see your

1:00:57

show. And I'm wishing you so

1:01:00

much success with it. I know

1:01:00

you're gonna have great success

1:01:03

because it's coming from a

1:01:03

really good place. It's coming

1:01:06

from love. That's what our

1:01:06

shows. This really is.

1:01:10

Yes, it is. Do you

1:01:10

know why Susan? Why I do but

1:01:13

tell. And that's well that's

1:01:13

because love is powerful. Love

1:01:17

is contagious, and love conquers

1:01:17

all we do. Thank everyone for

1:01:22

watching and listening today.

1:01:22

Please if you're in the LA area

1:01:25

in June go check out quicksand

1:01:25

with Heather Fink Ben and as

1:01:30

Suzy said we can't wait to see

1:01:30

it cannot land and and like

1:01:35

share or all those good things.

1:01:35

Subscribe to our podcast so more

1:01:39

people can hear it. And we will

1:01:39

absolutely see you next time.

1:01:45

Take care.

1:01:45

Thank you both so much.