6:00

We're law tubing over there. You deserve it. So

6:02

great, Bob. We're trying. Yeah, it's

6:04

fun. It's fun. It's eating into

6:06

my podcasting, which my podcast fans are getting

6:09

irritated with. You

6:11

know, I like I started that thing to whatever. I'm not

6:13

going to, but I really was doing it

6:15

to promote the pot. Right. So, but

6:17

at any rate, like I kind of love it. It's kind

6:19

of fun being on there and being able to like really

6:21

because I'm on core TV a lot and law and crime

6:24

and it's like so truncated. You know, you

6:26

get to go in for like three minutes and they

6:28

ask you one question. Yeah, don't really get to stretch

6:30

your legs on it. So I kind of

6:32

love being able to just yap at will. So

6:34

but like watching this whole trial, you

6:37

know, and it's like I

6:41

was and I'm still now that

6:43

the evidence is closed, we've heard

6:45

closing arguments. I still

6:47

don't know what happened to John O'Keefe. Like

6:49

honestly, I honestly don't know. Like

6:51

midway through it, I was starting to

6:54

throw out this third theory concept

6:56

because remember, and I say it all the time and I know

6:58

I've said it to you guys, the state

7:00

wasn't there. The Commonwealth was not there. The cops

7:02

were not there when this went down. Neither

7:05

was the defense. So what they're doing is

7:07

they're just throwing theories out there based

7:09

on the evidence that they've seen. Yeah,

7:12

I started thinking I'm like, well, what happens if

7:14

he just slipped like a double

7:16

leg both feet out from under you

7:19

slipped on a slippery driveway because the

7:21

nor'easter's bearing down. There's snow on the

7:23

ground. It would explain that giant wound

7:25

on the back of his head. He

7:28

somehow gets up on all fours. Like if

7:30

you hit your head and you're not knocked

7:32

out cold immediately, but you're definitely concussed. Yeah,

7:34

yeah, you have that wound. But you know,

7:37

in your your woozy, you get up on

7:39

all fours, which is how you do it.

7:41

You know, he slips again, hits his,

7:44

you know, gets the egg over his eye,

7:46

you know, falls on his face a little

7:48

bit, but then ultimately staggers over to where

7:50

he's ultimately found. It

7:53

could be, I mean, scrambling if there's gravel

7:55

or something on the arm, but ultimately

7:57

then he's still innocent. to

26:00

be so credible, I found her

26:02

to be like unimpeachable with her integrity

26:04

because she came in with an undetermined.

26:06

She said, I don't have enough evidence

26:09

to say whether or not

26:11

he was struck by a motor vehicle, which

26:13

is a death. Now to Lally, you know,

26:15

I mean, like you want your me coming

26:17

on and say, okay, yeah, this this lines

26:19

up with what the state's theory is. She

26:22

couldn't say it like, and I respected the hell

26:24

out of her for being honest about it. Like

26:26

she just wasn't a hack for the state. She

26:28

just said, look, I don't have enough information to

26:31

be able to say, you know, with

26:33

a reasonable degree of medical certainty that John O'Keefe

26:35

was struck by that SUV, I can't say it.

26:37

So she came back with undetermined. She couldn't even

26:39

say it was a homicide. So

26:42

then you've also got to

26:44

look at Trooper Paul, poor Trooper Paul, who

26:46

I actually felt terrible for. I mean, there's

26:48

no way that he should have been called

26:50

to the stand. If you guys have not

26:52

seen that testimony, you need to go back

26:54

and watch it. It was he was their

26:57

accident recon guy. He's in.

26:59

He just didn't have the education level

27:01

and the experience to be able to get on

27:03

the stand and sell the case. He's the guy

27:05

who comes up with his concept

27:08

is that John O'Keefe had his arm in

27:10

a kind of a 90 degree angle up,

27:12

you know, holding his fist up in

27:14

the air, maybe holding the glass

27:17

and that the arm

27:19

is struck in a side swipe that

27:21

his whole body doesn't get struck and

27:24

that that causes him to pirouette. He

27:26

then falls to the ground

27:29

and then bounces somewhere between 50 and 30

27:31

feet. Isn't this

27:33

the guy who did like 150? Is

27:35

this the 156 reconstructed accident guy? No,

27:39

OK. No, no. This

27:42

guy is like he it

27:44

was terrible. Like his like

27:46

it was so bad. The

27:49

Commonwealth. He was the man. He was the one who

27:51

was like sweating bullets, right? Yeah, he

27:53

was the one who just I felt terrible for

27:55

the guy. Because he just like he was stumbling

27:58

over his words and he couldn't say certain. that

30:00

they're searching on the internet, you know, maybe they're

30:02

porn. Who knows? I mean, there's a million

30:04

like, I don't want anybody searching through

30:07

my shit. I know, but it's that

30:09

accompanied with so many other things. Like,

30:11

it's so much. I

30:13

think one of the YouTube comments at the

30:15

end of the of Jackson's final

30:18

statements was like, Oh, you forgot about the sale

30:20

of the home. Right. And it

30:22

was like, Oh, my God, there's even more than what

30:24

you said. Yeah. No, I mean, they

30:26

sold the home now. And

30:29

I'm always devil's advocating, you know, because like on

30:31

this thing, you know, obviously, like,

30:33

I think that reasonable doubt, like,

30:36

I don't know how a jury can't find reasonable doubt.

30:39

In that case, that doesn't mean that I don't think

30:41

that Karen may have hit him. I don't know. And

30:44

it doesn't mean that I don't think that maybe

30:46

John went in that house because I feel the

30:48

same. Yep. Like when I heard the text message

30:51

because the way that it played out with the

30:53

Brian Higgins text messages, which if you guys haven't

30:55

followed the case out there as thoroughly as we

30:57

may have, he's an ATF

30:59

agent who had an office that was

31:01

in the Canton Police Department. He's pretty

31:03

he's pretty tight with Brian Higgins, the

31:05

homeowner they had been out or

31:08

Brian Albert. Thank you that

31:10

day. And then they were in

31:12

New York. I think it a cop's funeral.

31:15

And so they had traveled back home.

31:18

They went out. They went drinking. So

31:21

we then get into Brian Higgins text

31:24

messages. And it turns out that

31:26

he's texting with Karen Reed about

31:29

for about a 10 day period where Karen reaches

31:31

out to him. Now, this

31:33

is after the whole Aruba

31:35

trip where Karen thinks that

31:38

John was banging or had some kind

31:40

of sexual encounter with one of the

31:42

Sullivan sisters. I think she did see

31:44

him kissing someone. Right. Well, it was

31:46

one of the Sully. Yeah, it was

31:48

I think it was at a

31:50

I think it was like it's Marietta Sullivan, the

31:52

younger of the two Sullivan sisters. I might be

31:54

messing up her first name, but so

31:57

the younger of the two Sullivan sisters. So that

31:59

thing. blew up in Aruba. She, you

32:02

know, she called her and, you know, an

32:04

effing bitch and whatever. And they had an

32:06

exchange. The Sullivan sister and Karen, Karen apologized.

32:08

She offered to pay for half of her

32:10

room. She's like, I'm so sorry that this

32:12

happened. But that that feeling

32:15

lingered with Karen, like Karen believed

32:17

what she saw or what

32:19

what had happened. John had ghosted for a

32:21

while. Couldn't she couldn't find him. He wasn't

32:23

answering texts. So there's this whole

32:25

thing leading up to her reaching out to

32:28

Brian Higgins and kind

32:30

of flirting with him. And then like in Higgins

32:32

isn't an idiot. He's like, yo, you know,

32:34

like I'm not I'm not about being your

32:37

pawn because Higgins would have heard about the

32:39

Aruba trip. You're like, this is

32:41

a small the inner circle. That's what

32:43

they call them. So he's hearing what

32:45

went on with John and Karen in

32:47

Aruba. I have no doubt about that.

32:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's asking. He

32:52

kept asking the question. So why

32:54

did you get my number? Why did you hit me up? You

32:56

know, like, what's your game here? You know, because

32:59

he knows he's like, I'm not going to be

33:01

your pawn in your battle with John. Yeah. Yeah.

33:03

Yeah. And then she texts him that, you know,

33:05

she plants that kiss when she's walking him out

33:08

of John's place like after the Patriots game. And

33:11

like she tells Higgins like, oh, John saw

33:13

the video of when I walked you out.

33:15

And he's like, what? She's

33:17

like, oh, no, no, he didn't see the kiss. But it

33:19

implied that that he had

33:22

that John. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seen the kiss.

33:24

And maybe John had like if that was

33:26

Karen's game to be like, you know what?

33:28

Fuck you, John. Yeah. You pulled that shit

33:30

here. A little tit for that. Little

33:33

tit for tat. Just normal, like crappy

33:35

relationship stuff. Exactly. But let me

33:38

play it out. Let me play it out. Like, because

33:40

this is where this is where my head was at,

33:42

because like the problem that I had with with John

33:44

going in that house was the timing of it in

33:47

terms of the like the way it had to

33:49

work for the defense's theories. It had to go

33:51

down immediately. And what could have gone on like

33:53

going into the trial when I didn't know about

33:56

the Brian Higgins tax? Like,

33:58

I'm like, what? What could have possible? going on.

34:00

I'm not buying that. You know, Colin, Colin

34:03

Albert threw a beer can on John's fucking lawn and

34:05

he went in there and started to fight. It sounds

34:07

like bullshit to me. So here, let me let me

34:09

let me play it out. So once we

34:11

got like watching Andy's ready. And

34:14

he's ready to come at me. I'm so I'm going

34:16

to say it real quick. Pip

34:19

to the face. You're walking in

34:21

a room with. Yeah,

34:23

but like, no, I'm not buying that. You're

34:25

talking about Colin. Now, I don't know. I

34:27

don't know. You haven't have you met that many Boston

34:30

men, sir? Yeah.

34:32

Yes, I have. And

34:35

they are they are. Yeah, I know you you Midwesterners.

34:37

I know are a different breed.

34:40

We are. But I have my my boyfriend

34:42

in Boston when someone started a fight, because a guy

34:44

asked me about my necklace and he thought he was

34:46

looking down my shirt. Right.

34:49

All right. So let me finish. So this

34:51

is what I'm getting with the whole Brian

34:53

Higgins situation. So we know that

34:55

like either John saw the kiss or he

34:58

didn't see the kiss on the red camp

35:00

video. But what we also know is that

35:02

Brian Higgins, as this is like played out

35:04

over the next 10 days, Karen starts pulling

35:07

back. Yeah, Higgins is still coming

35:10

at her a little bit. And we know that the the

35:12

so or well, um, or what, you

35:14

know, whatever that text was that night

35:16

while they're all at the bar, you

35:19

know. And so you have to be

35:21

able to to bring yourself to a

35:23

place where Karen's driving.

35:26

John sees that text. John's

35:28

hammered. He's a Boston guy,

35:30

just like you guys were saying. Like

35:33

they're had they're having a beef in the

35:35

car. She's like, fuck you, John. I know

35:37

you fuck fucking Sullivan. And but

35:40

John's going in into that house hot

35:42

going directly at Brian Higgins because he's

35:44

macking on his woman. That's

35:47

that changed everything for me in that

35:49

scenario, because I can then see

35:51

why John O'Keefe would have gone

35:54

into that house and immediately picked a fight. So

35:56

like and that's how it goes. Yeah, but even if he

35:59

picked a fight, he's.