4:00

in how they decided their vote. And

4:03

sure, some of their

4:05

other important factors are Mercury and retrograde

4:07

and election day wind speed. But

4:12

still, promising. As

4:15

if, like, I have not yet decided how

4:18

I'm going to vote. And yes, it's an

4:20

important factor. But it's

4:22

just a factor as I slide giant

4:24

balls across an abacus. I'm

4:31

undecided. Conviction

4:33

moves me towards Biden. Keep

4:39

calling. Still

4:48

crunching the numbers. We

4:54

live in hell. Meanwhile,

4:57

speaking of being trapped in a room for what

4:59

feels like an eternity, the Trump and Biden campaigns

5:01

have agreed to the rules for the first presidential

5:03

debate of 2024, which

5:05

will be in Atlanta on June 27th. The

5:11

most surprising rule? Rule number

5:13

three. In

5:15

three, be nice. Rule

5:19

number three is be nice. This

5:22

is neither here nor there. I haven't

5:24

seen the Patrick Swayze film Roadhouse. I've

5:27

seen it since 1990. I

5:30

saw it once on television,

5:33

and I was too young. I

5:36

was too young when I saw Roadhouse. And

5:38

so even though I don't remember any piece

5:40

of it, and I was too young probably

5:42

to understand the plot, I do remember Patrick

5:44

Swayze killing a man with his bare hands.

5:47

And specifically, I remember that his

5:49

hand is held in a strange position. Does

5:51

anybody else remember that? That

5:54

fucked me up. Because

5:56

he kind of does like a... It's like, I don't

5:58

even understand what I saw, did he? Did he break

6:00

his neck? Did he rip his throat out? What did

6:02

I fucking see? He

6:05

rips his throat out? That's really,

6:07

because I'm being honest. I have

6:09

not, until this clip

6:11

was pitched, I had not thought about the

6:14

movie. And

6:17

seared into my child brain is Patrick

6:20

Swayze, may his memory be a blessing,

6:22

ripping the throat out

6:24

of a man's throat. The

6:31

90 minute debate will include two commercial breaks, but

6:33

the candidates won't be allowed to talk to their

6:35

advisors while off the air. Oh

6:38

no, 90 whole minutes where we can't talk

6:40

to him? I hate that, said a Trump

6:42

advisor, shaking like a shelter chihuahua. Just

6:48

imagine that commercial break. The

6:50

two of them standing in silence, side by

6:52

side of the urinals, both desperately

6:54

trying to squeeze out just a few

6:57

drops of pee. Just

6:59

fighting, neither one of them acknowledging, it's just

7:02

like, you gotta pee a little bit. I

7:04

gotta do what I need to pee, but it's

7:07

gonna take me too long. I gotta get back,

7:09

fuck. There

7:14

will be no opening statements, as this of

7:16

course comports with the clause in Trump's contract

7:18

that says there can be no foreplay. Each

7:25

candidate's microphone will be muted when

7:27

it's not that person's turn to speak. Imagine

7:33

being the Atlanta sound engineer who gets

7:35

to push the button to

7:38

mute Donald Trump. Imagine how much sex

7:40

they're about to have. Imagine

7:43

what a letdown that sex will be

7:45

after having pushed a button to mute

7:47

Donald Trump. The

7:52

rules warn that this time around,

7:54

moderators will use all tools at

7:56

their disposal to enforce timing and

7:58

ensure a civilized discussion. Hell yeah,

8:00

they will. Am I excited

8:02

for this debate? No, I'm not. Am I excited

8:04

for the part of this debate that involves the

8:06

rules? Yes, I

8:08

am. If

8:11

you could distill the emotional essence of

8:13

it's my job and duty to the

8:15

country to enforce these debate rules into

8:17

a physical human form, that

8:19

form would be Jake Tapper. My

8:25

main worry, other than the obvious concern, that if Joe Biden

8:27

has a bad night, we'll have Texas

8:29

National Guard doing backpack checks at the Space Needle,

8:31

and all the trans people will have to go

8:33

to Canada for top surgery like the guys going

8:35

to Turkey for hair transplants. That's

8:39

my main concern, but... But

8:41

my other concern is that Jake will just never

8:43

stop enforcing these rules. In

8:46

all circumstances. Long

8:48

after it's over. Also, I just want

8:50

to flag that don't worry,

8:52

the moderators will run this presidential debate

8:55

like obedience trainers at a facility that

8:57

rehabilitates fighting dogs. That

8:59

is in and of itself a sign of how accustomed

9:01

we've become to having to deal with Trump's shit all

9:03

these years. Like we're all

9:06

applauding debate rules. This

9:10

used to just be Jim Lehrer at a desk while

9:12

two old guys had a conversation. Now it's like, we

9:14

gotta make sure that there's somebody with a

9:16

fucking cattle prod. And

9:20

I know it's not in there, but we should probably remind

9:22

the Trump people that they can't just

9:24

get a group of fucking voles into the audience

9:26

to try to spook... spook

9:30

the Democrats. Steve

9:33

Bannon will reportedly serve his four month prison

9:36

sentence not at a cushy minimum security prison

9:38

camp as he'd hoped, but rather at a

9:40

low security federal prison in Danbury, Connecticut. Which

9:42

is better than where he currently lives. Steve

9:45

Bannon's house. Speaking

9:51

of terrifying spaces, you wouldn't want to send your daughter. On

9:55

Monday, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy called on

9:57

Congress to require a warning label on

9:59

social media. like those on tobacco

10:01

and alcohol. But are we talking about some

10:03

kind of pop-up? Because we just closed those with ache.

10:06

We close them faster than the brain can perceive them. Pure

10:09

reflex, like a frog catching a bug.

10:12

That warning label better be superimposed on an Instagram reel of

10:14

a hot guy making a

10:16

scallion pancake or... not a soul

10:18

is gonna look at it. No one

10:20

can even see written type anymore if

10:23

it isn't superimposed on Minecraft footage. Just

10:25

get bored so quick.

10:30

Unless there's somebody running and jumping while someone

10:32

else is telling the story. I

10:34

can't listen to a story if there isn't someone also decorating

10:37

a cake. That's

10:39

too boring. I

10:41

can't need the

10:44

cake. Or I'll move on. Murthy

10:46

also called on tech companies to make changes, but told

10:48

the New York Times, I don't think we can solely

10:50

rely on the hope that the platform

10:53

will be able to do that. And if

10:55

the platforms can fix this problem on their own, they've

10:57

had 20 years. Oh,

11:00

you want to solve a problem in under 20 years

11:02

with ache in America? Now? This isn't

11:04

the space race. This

11:06

isn't Hidden Figures. It's 2024. Those

11:09

days are over. Los Angeles still has four

11:11

years until we're hosting the Olympics. I don't think

11:13

we're gonna make

11:15

it. They're gonna be doing the uneven bars in the parking lot

11:17

of a Winchell's Donut Shop. In very

11:19

good news, the Biden administration

11:21

announced Tuesday that it will take executive action

11:24

to shield the undocumented spouses of

11:26

U.S. citizens from deportation, a move that could

11:28

protect about 500,000 immigrants. Whoo!

11:33

Whoo! I just want to

11:35

take a second to

11:38

just appreciate how good this is. And,

11:41

you know, there was something that jumped out at me in

11:45

some of the reporting on the show that I

11:47

was gonna talk about. And I think that's

11:49

really important in some of the reporting on this, which

11:51

is that for the people from, the

11:55

immigrants from Mexico to whom this will apply, they've

11:57

lived in the U.S. on average of 23 years. become

12:00

a citizen would be to go back to Mexico for

12:02

10 years. Imagine being told

12:04

that you either have to live as a

12:06

second class non-citizen, unable

12:09

to seek the protection of the laws,

12:11

afraid of being taken advantage of by

12:13

landlords and by employers, or you have

12:15

to leave your family for 10 years.

12:17

Your family, by the way, that is

12:19

American, American citizens. Your husband or your

12:21

wife is an American citizen. Your children

12:23

are American citizens. You've lived in this

12:25

country most of your life, if not

12:27

all the life that you can remember. And

12:30

you're told you have to go home. I just went, so

12:32

that's what he's fixing, right? And by

12:34

the way, you can apply to be a citizen. You

12:36

just leave the country to do it, right? Now you

12:38

can just stay when you apply. And Republicans called this

12:40

blanket amnesty. That's what we're dealing

12:43

with. Republicans called this a blanket amnesty. Biden

12:49

in the announcement also called out Trump's

12:51

rhetoric about immigrants as he announced this

12:54

policy. These are

12:56

the fears my predecessor is trying to play

12:58

on when he says immigrants. Immigrants,

13:00

in his words, are poison the blood of

13:02

the country. When he calls

13:05

immigrants, in his words, animals.

13:08

Now this order follows President Biden's decision

13:11

earlier this month to restrict entry at

13:13

the border, which drew criticism from activists

13:15

and some Democrats. Joe Biden

13:18

likes to keep everyone on their toes in

13:20

policy, on a windy day as

13:22

he has to do stairs. And

13:25

you're right behind him, and you feel like even though nobody

13:27

said anything, you're just kind of, it's like you have a

13:30

job. You

13:32

know, when you're behind somebody on the stairs, you're like,

13:36

I'm in a position of responsibility. Speaking

13:41

of old guys who make us nervous, Senate Majority

13:43

Leader Chuck Schumer posted a classic

13:45

Father's Day photo. He was manning the grill

13:47

for his family, but then he had to

13:49

delete the photo or chose to delete it

13:52

after people pointed out that he had laid

13:54

in the photo a slice of cheese on

13:56

a still raw burger. And

14:01

I just want us to take a moment to

14:03

appreciate this photo. Because

14:07

the cheese part isn't even like

14:09

a top ten issue. The

14:12

meat's the wrong color. That's

14:15

first of all, let's start with that. And

14:19

if you look in the photo, he's got a pair of

14:21

glasses sitting face

14:26

down on a cutting board. Was

14:32

there beef on that cutting board? Is

14:36

that where the burgers came from?

14:41

Why else would it be there? And

14:45

then if you look at Chuck Schumer's head,

14:47

you can see the kind of depression in

14:50

his face where the glasses were. It's too

14:52

tight. Those glasses were

14:54

on too tight? There's a

14:56

fucking Mars canal

15:00

going up and around his ears where those

15:02

glasses were just pressed too deeply into the

15:05

fucking skin. That's

15:10

wild. Last

15:13

week, Michigan GOP congressional candidate Anthony

15:15

Hudson posted a TikTok featuring an

15:17

endorsement from an AI-generated Martin Luther

15:20

King Jr. I

15:22

have another dream. Yes,

15:26

it is me, Martin Luther King. I

15:29

came back from the dead to say something

15:31

as I was saying I have another dream.

15:33

That Anthony Hudson will be Michigan's 8th District's

15:36

next congressman. Yes, I have a dream again.

15:41

Okay, now I am going back to where I

15:43

came from today. My name is Anthony Hudson and

15:45

I approve this message. Okay,

15:49

here's the thing. The

15:54

pause and then the okay, I gotta go back to

15:56

where I came from. That is when

15:58

it became a piece of art. Unfortunately, I don't

16:00

make the rules on what art is. But

16:05

that's when that happened. Obviously

16:07

pretty gross. The FBI

16:09

had no idea where MLK's ghost was and they've

16:12

been tracking him ever since. You

16:16

know what's never made sense about Ghostbusters? Would

16:21

MLK's ghost just get sucked up and put in

16:23

the vault with Slimer and the other ghouls? There's

16:26

just zero due process over there. The EPA is the

16:28

hero of that movie. Hudson

16:32

had first seemed pretty annoyed that this

16:34

went out in his name, blaming a

16:36

staffer and saying, I would have never

16:38

approved such a stupid, disrespectful video. He

16:40

then went on to post, I sincerely

16:42

apologize that all of you have seen

16:44

this and I'm extremely furious about this

16:46

situation. Anyway, you think that would

16:49

be the last week here of this candidate and

16:51

his stupid but hilarious staffer. But

16:53

then a few hours later, Hudson did a

16:55

complete reversal. He said,

16:57

upon further review, of

17:00

the MLK video in question, I decided

17:02

to not only keep my campaign staffer

17:04

but give him a raise. If

17:07

MLK were alive today, I do believe

17:09

he would endorse me and my vision

17:11

for a better Michigan. Sure,

17:15

and if James Dean were alive today, he'd probably laugh at

17:17

all my jokes and kiss me on the lips. We

17:19

can all play this game, Hudson. I

17:22

just love the evolution here. He had first

17:25

reacted like a normal person, then he remembered

17:27

that he's a Republican in 2024, like

17:30

an episode of The Simpsons where Mr. Byrne gets hit on

17:32

the head and is sweet to everybody. Chuck

17:37

Schumer deleted his beef pick. This

17:39

guy, no apologies. Speaking

17:42

of people getting their patties smoked. George

17:45

Norcross, a longtime democratic power broker in

17:47

New Jersey was indicted on racketeering charges.

17:50

The indictment describes Norcross threatening a developer

17:52

over waterfront property by saying he would,

17:56

fuck you up like you've never been fucked

17:58

up before. And

18:00

I just found it weird that a corrupt New Jersey

18:02

businessman sounds like the imaginary voice I give a deep

18:05

dish pizza when it's set down in front of me.

18:12

I'm in a sub-dom relationship with deep dish

18:14

pizza. Speaking

18:18

of being in deep... Justin

18:22

Timberlake was a... All right.

18:26

Was arrested on a DWI charge and held

18:28

for nine hours after getting pulled over and

18:30

failing a sobriety test in the Hamptons early

18:33

Tuesday morning. That's right, the Justin

18:35

Timberlake from the social network. Timberlake

18:40

allegedly told police, I had one martini and

18:42

I followed my friend's home. Couldn't be more

18:44

of an obvious lie. No one has ever

18:46

had one martini. That's not how martinis work.

18:50

We also got Timberlake's mugshot. And

18:55

I have to say, it is nice of them to let

18:57

him use his own ring light. Does

19:01

he keep one in his car? Should

19:05

I keep one in my car? According

19:09

to page six, the cop who pulled Timberlake over

19:11

was so young that he didn't recognize his face

19:13

or name. Oh,

19:18

God damn it. God,

19:21

he hadn't pulled over by a cop that was

19:23

born after 9-11. In

19:29

my opinion, too young, you

19:32

should have to be able to identify Joey Fatone before you get a gun.

19:36

That should be one of the rules. According

19:41

to page six, Justin said under his breath, this is going to

19:43

ruin the tour. The

19:47

cop replied, what tour? And

19:51

Justin said, the world tour. That

19:58

was awesome. Justin

20:01

Timberlake telling a cop about his world

20:03

tour sounds even sadder than I did

20:05

as a child describing an imaginary friend.

20:08

Sure you got a world tour there little buddy, you want

20:10

some goldfish? Let's

20:13

get something in that stomach. And

20:17

finally, it's time for a segment we're

20:19

calling America's Least Wanted. Since

20:25

we're here in beautiful North Carolina, we

20:28

thought what better time to trot out

20:30

one of your hometown circus wackos. Republican

20:32

nominee for state education superintendent, Michelle

20:35

Morrow. Don't

20:41

be a vote. Morrow is running

20:43

to oversee all of North Carolina's public schools

20:45

which educate 1.3 million children which

20:48

is of course a natural progression for a,

20:50

it says here property manager. Everyone's

20:55

favorite, a property manager. Not

20:57

only does Morrow not have a background

20:59

in education, she doesn't believe in public

21:01

education at all. She homeschools refined children

21:03

and is regularly called public schools indoctrination

21:06

centers but not in the school in

21:08

her living room where math begins a

21:10

conception. Morrow

21:14

staged a surprise upset in the primary in

21:16

March, edging out the incumbent GOP state superintendent,

21:19

Catherine Truitt, by four points. Morrow ran a

21:21

vicious campaign against Truitt and railed against her

21:23

as part of the educational establishment which

21:26

I guess is just code for has been inside

21:28

a school before. Morrow

21:30

really does seem to have a lot of time

21:32

on her hands despite allegedly being the sole educator for

21:34

five children and I guess that's how

21:36

she wound up at the Capitol on January 6th. Morrow

21:40

claimed I shit you not that she took her oldest children

21:42

there as a field trip to teach them a lesson about

21:45

the citizens role in our democracy. It really

21:47

is beautiful. One person, one

21:49

vote, one Viking helmet, one dump

21:51

on Nancy Pelosi's desk. On

21:56

her now deleted Twitter account, Morrow regularly espoused

21:58

conspiracy theories that the The 2020 election was

22:00

stolen, Democrats drink the blood of children, Obama

22:02

was a Muslim plant sent to destroy America,

22:04

but in fairness to Morrow, she didn't just

22:06

pull those ideas from thin air, they're part

22:08

of the standard school curriculum where she teaches.

22:20

She also tweeted in 2020 that she wants

22:22

to see President Obama killed live on television,

22:24

along with calling for the deaths of Elon

22:26

Omar, Chuck Schumer, and Dr. Anthony Fauci. And

22:28

look, I'm as annoyed as

22:30

anyone that Fauci's book is number one above the

22:32

book John Tommy and I have coming out. Because

22:35

it's like, what did he ever do except destroy the economy?

22:42

Oh, tough ground. And

22:47

still, violence isn't the answer. Book

22:49

purchases is the answer. And

22:55

look, I

22:58

know there are a lot of angry maniacs

23:00

running for office all over the place here in

23:02

North Carolina, and it can be easy to grow

23:04

a bit of nerd to it all. But Michelle

23:06

Morrow is one of the scariest candidates around, not

23:08

just because of her violent and conspiratorial worldview, but

23:10

because she has a real chance of winning and

23:13

turning the three Rs in North Carolina schools to

23:15

reading the Bible, reading the Bible, and reading the

23:17

Bible. You

23:25

get it. So

23:29

head on over to

23:31

votesaveamerica.com/2024 to sign up,

23:34

learn more, and fight back. If you

23:36

haven't signed up yet, now is the

23:38

time. It's here. They're

23:41

debating in fucking June. The election

23:43

is here. We're in what

23:45

could only be described as what will

23:47

feel like an eternally long home stretch.

23:51

And that's been America's Least Wanted. Nice.

23:56

All right, we will be right back. Coming up next,

23:58

Trezzy McMillan Cottom is here. Hey,

24:03

don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave

24:05

It coming up. Have

24:07

you met All Modern? All Modern brings

24:09

you the best of modern furniture, and

24:11

they deliver it for free in days.

24:14

You heard that right. Days. That way,

24:16

you get your sofa ASAP and can

24:18

sit comfortably while figuring out your other

24:20

modern must-haves. At All Modern,

24:22

you'll find only the best of

24:24

modern, from Scandi to mid-century, minimalist

24:26

to maximalist. Every piece is

24:29

hand-vetted for quality by our team

24:31

of experts, and designed for real

24:33

life. That's modern made simple. Shop

24:35

now at allmodern.com. They

24:39

say plants like music. Yeah, no, like

24:42

really, they respond to the vibrations of

24:44

it, which means that this playlist you're

24:46

listening to, the plants are too. You

24:48

know what else plants like? Organic soil

24:50

from Miracle-Gro. It's made with all the

24:53

best stuff, like wood, fiber, and compost.

24:55

Plus, it's OMRI certified organic, which officially

24:57

means it's made with superior ingredients. And

24:59

when you give your plants the stuff

25:02

that makes them happy, they won't judge

25:04

you on your iffy playlist. Hear that,

25:06

plants? So go ahead and give them

25:08

Miracle-Gro. And

25:14

we're back. Please

25:20

welcome to the stage, friend of the show, and

25:22

I hope me personally, after I absolutely crushed this

25:24

segment, it's the incredible Tressie McMillan Cottom. Hi,

25:31

it's good to see

25:33

you. Thank you for

25:35

being here. It's a lot

25:37

of y'all. Hey, it's a

25:39

lot of people. It is a lot of people. Yeah.

25:42

You were at our Asheville show last time, I believe. Yes, I was. We're going

25:44

to head to Asheville now, but it's so nice for you to be here. Thanks.

25:46

Good to see you. I'm a huge fan. I really am. Thank

25:49

you. I don't know if it's true, but I don't care.

25:51

Thank you. It is true. Okay, thanks. It

25:53

is true. It is true. So

25:57

you're very good at TikTok. I am. I

26:00

mean, I am, okay? What

26:03

a shift. I don't try

26:05

to be, I really am

26:07

a text-based person. Twitter was my thing.

26:10

I don't approve a video. I

26:14

don't really like it. I'm not a

26:16

fan. But it's

26:18

where the people are, and I really got

26:20

on to see if I could figure out

26:22

how it worked. And then people found me,

26:24

and it was all downhill from there. You

26:28

know what's interesting about it is that I do

26:30

think for, like, there

26:32

are a lot of people for whom TikTok

26:36

is not necessarily their native language. Basically everyone over

26:38

30. And what

26:41

you trying to say, Joan? I'm saying we're both

26:43

over 30. Oh,

26:45

okay. And what's interesting is, like, there

26:48

are a lot of people who

26:50

are trying, and it comes

26:53

across as trying. But you're one of

26:55

those rare people that has a kind

26:57

of, there's

26:59

something about TikTok where when people come on there

27:02

and they try to put on a show, they

27:04

get caught. But you don't seem to be doing that. And I

27:07

think it has to do with knowing yourself. Do

27:09

you feel like that's part of why you're appealing to people?

27:11

Like, no, but there's a kind of, but like, and like,

27:13

I think there's, there are people who are 20 and know

27:15

themselves and there are people who are 60 who don't. It's

27:18

possible. But do you feel that people are coming to you

27:20

because there's a sense in which there's

27:23

a, they can trust you because you're not putting on a

27:25

show. Do you know what I'm saying? Jeez.

27:28

Okay. So I don't know if

27:31

I would, if I'm prepared for self reflection. You know,

27:33

I never, I actually

27:35

never understand exactly why people

27:39

read me, follow me, watch me. I'm

27:41

always grateful, but I think there must be

27:44

like a million stories for why people are

27:46

there. But I like to

27:48

think that I know who I am mostly

27:51

because I know who I'm not and

27:54

all the stuff left over. I go, okay, yeah, is

27:56

that me? Then yeah, that's me. And

27:58

I remember early on, I was like, I'm not going to do this. early on in

28:00

making the transition to TikTok, someone said

28:02

to me, the TikTok audience

28:05

and that TikTok generation is very discerning.

28:07

They don't want you selling them anything. They

28:10

can sniff out a false

28:14

performance and they resent it.

28:17

And I thought, well good, because I don't know how

28:19

to do any of that. So that's fine. And

28:22

it's really hard to pretend to be something you're

28:24

not. I actually think that's what's wrong with a

28:26

lot of public figures. It's

28:29

really hard to maintain multiple voices

28:31

without starting to hear them all

28:33

in your head at the same

28:35

time. And so mostly I'm trying

28:37

to protect my sanity by being

28:39

exactly who I am as much

28:41

as possible. That's

28:43

good. That's good. I'm

28:48

gonna keep doing this character. I

28:51

don't think, I think this is you. Yeah, it

28:53

probably is. Yeah. I'm

28:56

not disciplined enough. I don't

28:58

have the skillset. Exactly,

29:01

no, it isn't. And that's actually a

29:03

good thing. I think only

29:06

two kinds of people can maintain

29:08

a lie across

29:10

time and make people believe it and

29:12

be consistent with that lie. And

29:15

it's like politicians and serial

29:17

killers. So I actually think

29:19

it's fine to say

29:22

I don't have the

29:24

dedication required to create an

29:26

avatar of myself and maintain

29:28

it. Yeah.

29:34

So speaking of politicians, on

29:36

TikTok you're recently talking about

29:38

basically the impact of the

29:40

2000 election and

29:45

Al Gore and what, can you

29:47

just talk a little bit about that? Well,

29:50

kind of like Justin Timberlake, I'm very dismayed

29:52

that there are young people. And

29:56

I teach college students who have been born very

29:58

recently. recently, and it

30:00

only occurred to me, you

30:03

know, so I'm constantly finding something that

30:05

they didn't know that's very tangible for

30:07

me, and one of them is the

30:09

2000 election. And

30:12

so we can talk about how we kind

30:14

of got here, and I think there, you

30:16

know, yes, Trump is both a convergence and

30:18

a divergence and a distraction. We

30:21

can certainly talk about, I think, what

30:24

happened during the Clinton years, et cetera, but

30:26

I think that the 2000 election, there's

30:30

a really strong argument that

30:32

that's where, one, a lot of people

30:34

lost faith in our ability to have

30:37

a meaningful election, and we start to

30:39

see this polarization that now defines our

30:41

political discourse emerge after that. I

30:44

think it is where we start to see

30:46

this sort of rogue

30:49

Supreme Court feel its power,

30:52

and we see what's happened since then,

30:54

right? And so

30:56

I think that we would have made

30:58

maybe more meaningful progress

31:01

in our response to climate change, have

31:05

we done that? And since I think

31:07

a lot of our economic anxiety is

31:09

rooted in us resisting dealing with climate

31:11

change, I just can imagine a whole

31:13

world where we weren't making

31:16

politics based on panic and fear,

31:19

and all of that, to my mind, really kind

31:22

of starts with that election. Eric?

31:26

Yeah. Speaking

31:31

of that kind of climate anxiety and

31:34

economic anxiety, and TikTok, there really is

31:36

a lot of, I think, well-earned

31:39

cynicism out there, and

31:44

that cynicism is gonna play out in who does

31:46

and doesn't turn out to vote. And

31:49

I'm curious what

31:51

you say to a young person who's

31:54

writing to you about why

31:57

they feel like they don't feel

31:59

any... urge to

32:01

participate in the election, or they don't

32:03

think it matters, or they don't

32:06

believe that they should be turning

32:08

out to vote for Joe Biden. Like how do you

32:10

talk to somebody who's feeling that way? And I have

32:13

a lot of this, again, I'm surrounded by a lot

32:15

of young people, and

32:17

I hear this often for

32:19

a range of

32:21

reasons, either like a political

32:24

identity, like they're anarchists, or

32:26

just being disconnected from

32:29

the political process. And I honestly think

32:31

the very first thing we

32:33

should do is acknowledge that

32:35

them feeling that way is

32:38

rational. Depending

32:40

on when you were born in

32:42

this country over the last 20

32:44

years, you watch your government let

32:46

children die at school, your

32:49

friends, people your age, and not

32:51

do anything about guns. Right?

32:55

If you are a young person

32:57

who only knows the last 15,

33:00

20 years of American political life, you

33:02

have watched the concerns of the people

33:04

around you who you love and rely

33:06

on, their concerns not be reflected in

33:09

the people they vote for. So

33:11

the first thing I say to them is, I get it. I

33:14

think it's absolutely reasonable. I think we

33:17

take the wrong tack when we try

33:19

to convince them that

33:21

they just don't understand. You

33:24

know, let me just sit you down and tell you

33:26

about the real world, kid. You

33:29

know, I find that young people today are very, very

33:31

aware of the real world. And

33:34

what they are seeing is true. There

33:36

is a disconnect between our political representation

33:38

and what most Americans care about, right?

33:41

On issue after issue. And we go,

33:43

how did we get here? And they

33:45

can see it, and they go, well,

33:48

why participate? So first to acknowledge that

33:50

it's real and it's rational. But then

33:52

I try to say to them, after

33:55

listening to them, reflecting back what

33:57

I think is real, and

33:59

I say, Well, the thing is, this

34:01

is the world you've got now. I

34:05

get wanting a better world. I

34:08

do. I always want one. But

34:10

tomorrow is the world you've got to

34:13

worry about, because you don't get to

34:15

10 years from now if you don't

34:17

handle tomorrow. And I tell them that

34:19

voting is about tomorrow. So

34:21

when you wake up tomorrow, who do

34:24

you hope is in the room making

34:26

the decisions about the things that you care

34:29

about? Now, I don't mean who

34:31

do you love in the room. So

34:34

part of what's happened, I think, with

34:36

political polarization in this country is that

34:39

our political identity has become our identity

34:41

identity. And we think

34:43

that we need to like the people. Really,

34:46

you just need someone who is afraid

34:49

enough of voters to do voters will.

34:52

You don't have to love them. We

34:54

don't need celebrities as politicians, I don't

34:56

think. And

34:59

so I try to say to

35:01

them, there are really pragmatic concerns

35:03

that don't require you to be

35:05

happy. Actually,

35:08

I think we got that all wrong. I don't think we're

35:10

all supposed to be happy. I think we're all supposed to

35:12

be roughly equally unhappy. So

35:16

let's try to tip those scales back to that. Right now,

35:18

a lot of people are happy who don't deserve to be.

35:22

And so

35:27

let's tilt that back. And let's spread that

35:29

around. That's democracy. I

35:31

love that. Yeah,

35:38

that is a big part of the challenge, right? This

35:40

idea that when identity gets

35:43

wrapped up in politics,

35:47

and I've always been in that. I've been in the same place as you. That's

35:50

never been how politics was for me. I

35:52

always viewed inspiration as like, it's a valuable

35:54

tool for a politician to have to

35:57

inspire people to vote for them. But if you

35:59

say you need to. to be inspired if you actually

36:01

follow that logic all the way to the end. You're

36:03

like, you mean you know what you're supposed to do,

36:05

but you won't do it unless somebody rouses you? Exactly.

36:07

But you just said you know what you think needs

36:09

to happen. So who cares

36:11

if you're inspired? Exactly. Go, go, go

36:13

to the, go see Sufs, you

36:16

know? Leave me alone. Adulthood is

36:19

almost unilaterally about doing things

36:21

you don't want to do,

36:23

right? And so this is

36:25

excellent practice for that, yeah.

36:28

Yeah, it is. But then, you

36:31

know, inspiration's nice. It's

36:33

nice to have. Inspiration is nice. But

36:35

I do think that we have fallen

36:38

a little too in love with it,

36:40

and I share your same concern. Like,

36:42

I don't really trust your

36:45

motivation for doing the right thing if

36:47

someone had to inspire you to do

36:49

it. Like, it may work

36:51

out for us in the short term,

36:54

but I don't think that's a long-term

36:56

practical strategy for building the world

36:58

we want to live in. You have to get

37:00

up every day and do

37:02

the thing. Some of my favorite

37:04

activists and organizers in the world say

37:07

that hope is action. Hope is what

37:09

you do. It's not what you feel.

37:12

You don't have to feel hopeful to do the hopeful thing,

37:14

right? Just like you don't

37:16

have to love somebody to be loving, right?

37:19

And so you don't have to like believe

37:21

in everything somebody's saying and wait for them

37:24

to like have the Holy Ghost move over

37:26

you, right? To do the thing. We

37:29

have a responsibility to each other that

37:31

shouldn't require inspiration. It is nice. I

37:33

go to the rally sometimes, and when

37:35

you've got somebody, a figure like a

37:37

Barack Obama or a Bill Clinton, I've

37:40

been in those convention halls, and it's

37:42

amazing. They're so good at it. But

37:46

we shouldn't need that. The stakes

37:48

are high enough that I don't think we need to

37:50

have a prom every time we go to the ballot

37:52

box. And

37:57

I think a positive rendering. Another

38:00

way to see that too is not, oh,

38:02

you don't need it being in Delta's heart, do what

38:04

you're supposed to do. The other side of it is

38:06

it's not really about them. What's

38:09

inspiring is all of us coming together to

38:11

put ourselves in a position to take

38:14

a step towards the future that

38:16

we want. And no, Joe Biden doesn't

38:18

get us to that future, but Donald

38:20

Trump makes that future impossible. There you

38:22

go. Yeah. Now,

38:31

this is just before we get to it, we're gonna

38:33

play a little game. But before we get to that,

38:35

you're working on a piece about AI. I

38:37

am. And I just do- How do

38:40

you know that? It

38:42

just says it here on this card. Oh,

38:44

okay. All right.

38:47

Now the question is, should Hallie, our

38:49

head writer, who is currently typing this question

38:51

for me, John Lovett, to

38:54

speak aloud, switch industries? Oh.

39:00

No, I mean, that's like jumping from

39:02

the frying pan, I think, into the

39:04

fire. So my position so far on

39:06

AI is this, there are some discrete,

39:10

amazing potential for what AI can

39:12

do and things like healthcare and

39:14

certain parts of manufacturing, et cetera.

39:17

It is not, however, what is being

39:19

marketed as. So the marketing of AI

39:21

is very different from what

39:24

AI can do. And if you talk to

39:26

anybody sober in that industry, they'll tell you

39:28

that. The only people who- So

39:31

the only people who are saying anything

39:33

about how, next week, all the jobs

39:35

are gonna be gone and you won't

39:37

have to do this, because AI will

39:40

do that. The biggest problems facing

39:42

us as a society are not

39:44

issues of productivity, which AI

39:47

is great at increasing. American workers

39:49

are actually very productive, believe

39:52

it or not. Our

39:55

problems are around things related to

39:58

care and care work.