0:01

Well, that was quite a 24 hours, wasn't

0:03

it? From

0:06

American Public Media, this is

0:09

Marketplace. In

0:19

Los Angeles, I'm Kyle Rizdahl. It is Friday

0:21

today. This one is the 28th of June.

0:24

Good as always to have you along, everybody. We

0:27

begin on this last Friday

0:29

of June with a mix of economic

0:31

data, the management of this economy, and the

0:33

politics of this economy. Nobody better to do

0:35

that with than Gina Smilak. She is

0:37

at the New York Times. Catherine

0:40

Rempel is at the Washington Post. Hey, you two.

0:42

Hey, Kyle. Hey, Kyle. Gina,

0:44

let me begin with you. We will start

0:46

with the data. The Fed's favorite measure

0:49

of inflation, which everybody listening to this

0:51

program knows is the Personal Consumption Expenditures

0:53

Price Index, PCE for short, came in.

0:55

I think the word I saw

0:57

one of your sources in the paper today use was mild,

0:59

2.6% year on year.

1:03

Thus, perhaps maybe this

1:05

spring was just a bump in a bumpy road. What

1:07

do you think? Yeah, I

1:09

think that's kind of the consensus that

1:11

we're really seeing forming is that this

1:13

spring looked bad. It was pretty worrying,

1:15

but it wasn't necessarily anything that derailed

1:17

progress here. We probably saw slightly

1:20

more progress than you would have expected toward the end

1:22

of last year than we saw a lot less progress

1:24

than you would have expected through March. Now, we're kind

1:26

of back on track to where we previously thought we

1:28

might be. I think that's

1:30

great news for anybody who's hoping that

1:32

inflation comes back under control. It's probably

1:34

good news for the Fed. I talked

1:36

to several economists today who said that

1:39

this doesn't solidify the case for a rate cut

1:41

as soon as September. It doesn't make it a

1:43

done deal, but it definitely helps the case for

1:45

that. Catherine Rempel, the next

1:47

words out of my mouth are yes and

1:50

but. We learned this week

1:52

that GDP is softish, 1.4% in the first quarter.

1:56

Consumers are maybe not great. There's

1:58

some sort of... selfening in the

2:00

labor market. What do you think? Well,

2:04

and even in the release

2:06

today, the same release that

2:08

had the PCE data also

2:10

showed pretty solid income in spending

2:12

numbers, which may mean that, okay,

2:15

the inflation slowdown has improved the

2:17

outlook for Fed cuts, but maybe

2:20

there's no urgency to cut either,

2:22

given that spending is still pretty

2:25

strong. Do you want to encourage

2:27

more spending and potentially reignite inflation?

2:29

It's kind of this cacophony of

2:32

different economic indicators, which I

2:34

guess is always true to some

2:36

extent. It's always

2:39

kind of a mixed bag, but it would

2:41

be nice if more of the numbers were

2:43

pointing in the same direction that they have

2:45

been recently, given everything we've been

2:47

through. Yeah, no, totally. So look, Gina, just a

2:49

very quick detour back to the Fed, right? The

2:51

mantra has been for, I've

2:54

forgotten how many months and years it's been now, data,

2:56

data, data, we want more confidence and we want more

2:58

good data. The Fed is going

3:00

to have to separate the wheat from the chaff here and

3:02

decide what data they like and what data they don't. Yeah?

3:05

Yeah, right? This is always the problem with

3:07

saying you're data dependent. It's been like, which

3:10

data are you depending on, exactly. And I

3:12

think this is clearly one of those moments

3:14

for them. I think that they've pretty clearly

3:18

set out this sort of two-part test for us that I

3:20

think is somewhat useful in thinking about how they're going to

3:22

think about the rest of the year, which is that they

3:24

want to see sort of sustained

3:26

evidence that makes them believe that inflation is under

3:28

control. So I think that's basically them telling us

3:31

that they are just looking at these inflation numbers.

3:33

And then the second part is they would be

3:36

sort of prodded toward a cut if they saw a

3:38

surprising and sudden deterioration in the labor market. And so

3:41

I think that those are sort of the two, watch

3:43

those jobs reports and watch those inflation reports. That seems

3:45

to be where they're focused at the moment. Yeah, sorry,

3:47

Gina, let me just stay with you for one second

3:49

and something you said. They want

3:52

to know that inflation is under control. So

3:54

we should read this 2.6% and

3:56

flat monthly, by the way, the PCE

3:59

that came out today. We should read that

4:01

as the Fed thinking maybe inflation's not yet

4:03

under control Yeah,

4:05

so I think that one of the things that they

4:07

are probably pretty aware of is You

4:09

are going to have and I went back to using

4:12

nerdy term But then I'm gonna define it you are

4:14

going to have base effects kick in pretty soon Which

4:16

means that inflation came down a lot toward the end

4:18

of last year and as we

4:20

lap those softer numbers on a year-over-year Basis

4:22

so as we're comparing inflation today to inflation

4:24

a year ago It's going to

4:27

look like and it's gonna be a little harder for

4:29

inflation to keep coming down So those year-over-year numbers could

4:31

flatline and in fact, we're kind of expecting them to

4:33

flatline And so I think that's what's gonna

4:35

keep the Fed a little bit wary You know, you

4:37

don't want to while while those monthly numbers matter a

4:40

lot They're not gonna want to cut interest rates at

4:42

a time when inflation is gonna get stuck at two

4:44

six sort of indefinitely You know, and so I think

4:46

that that is what's gonna keep them a little bit

4:49

on watch in the months ahead Okay,

4:51

Catherine Pell to the management of this economy from

4:54

the Supreme Court of the United States today a

4:57

case in which the Justice

4:59

has overruled what's come to be called the

5:01

Chevron deference Which is to say that regulatory agencies

5:03

should be deferred to generally speaking when when

5:05

figuring out how to apply in practice Laws

5:08

and statutes in their areas of

5:10

expertise This is as we talked about a

5:12

little bit on the program yesterday with a different case This

5:14

is a fundamental change in the way

5:17

this economy is managed Absolutely

5:19

It is a shift of power

5:21

away from the executive branch and

5:24

to some extent away from Congress

5:26

Toward the courts that the

5:28

courts will now be probably facing

5:30

a torrent of litigation a torrent

5:32

of cases About other

5:35

kinds of regulations that are on the books

5:38

labor regulations food safety financial

5:41

regulations environmental Energy,

5:43

etc They're all going

5:45

to be challenged or many of them

5:48

will be challenged as well Did the

5:50

regulatory agency overstep its authority did they

5:52

you know, did they did they were

5:54

they putting into effect? Very

5:57

specific instructions from Congress or were the

5:59

instructions? to ambiguous and therefore the

6:02

agency, whatever regulations the agency put in

6:04

place, rules and regulations, those no longer

6:06

stand. So I think it's going to

6:08

lead to a lot of uncertainty about

6:11

what the rules of the road are

6:14

for major, major industries. And

6:17

beyond that, it'll constrain

6:19

how much various federal agencies

6:22

can actually regulate the

6:24

industries that they're supposed to be overseeing.

6:26

There's some opportunity that Congress can step

6:28

in. And

6:31

rewrite statutes and create more certainty. But I

6:33

think the next few years you're going to

6:35

see a lot of uncertainty about

6:38

how companies should be operating. Sorry, Catherine, one

6:40

more thing on this. Congress, as

6:42

we know, cannot agree what day of the

6:44

week it is. Yes. Which

6:46

amplifies this challenge, right? And that's

6:49

a facetious thing to say, but they can't

6:51

agree on practically anything. Yes,

6:53

it's not just that Congress is

6:55

dysfunctional, it's that there legitimately

6:58

are a lot of complicated questions

7:00

that you would want to be

7:02

deferred to the experts. There are

7:04

professional expert civil servants at

7:07

NASA or at the FDA or the

7:09

EPA where you want the scientists figuring

7:14

out what's the right level of arsenic in

7:17

the water or whatever. You don't necessarily want

7:19

to rely on the expertise of Congress, even

7:21

in a Congress that were more functional

7:25

than the one today. But yes,

7:27

your point is taken that if Congress

7:30

can't agree on very basic things, how

7:32

are they going to agree on these

7:34

minutia that will be needed to figure

7:36

out how industries operate, how companies operate?

7:38

Gina, super quick on the politics of

7:40

all this. Former President Trump

7:43

last night in the debate hailed

7:46

his own deregulatory agenda, and we now have

7:48

the Supreme Court with a

7:50

deregulatory set of decisions. Uncertainty,

7:53

that word Catherine kept using. Uncertainty now

7:55

kind of applies. Yeah,

7:57

I think that obviously. I

8:00

think he's probably going to take some amount of

8:02

credit for the Supreme Court being the composition that

8:04

it is and this sort of

8:06

having happened. I think

8:08

it's been really interesting to watch recently,

8:10

not just in the debate, but in

8:12

a lot of his interviews as of

8:15

late, former President Trump has really emphasized

8:17

that his deregulatory agenda was the thing

8:19

that he thinks lifted growth in that

8:21

first term, to the extent the

8:23

growth was lifted, I think, which we could take issue with.

8:26

But I think that you're going to hear this message

8:28

more and more that deregulation is the thing that they're

8:30

likely to focus on this time around because tax cuts,

8:32

it's hard to do a lot more

8:34

on tax cuts. You can extend them. They're talking

8:36

about tipped tax cuts. But really, I think this

8:39

deregulation is the thing we're going to see Republican

8:41

politicians hammer

8:43

into the election in the fall. Gina

8:45

Smilak at The New York Times, Catherine Redpel at

8:48

the Washington Post. Thanks, you two. Thanks,

8:51

Kat. Wall Street today bringing the first

8:53

half of this year to a close. Traders

8:55

decided to sell just a little bit though.

8:57

We'll have the details when we do the

8:59

numbers. It's

9:04

been a busy

9:07

couple of days

9:09

at one first

9:11

street northeast, Washington,

9:14

D.C., the mailing

9:26

address of the Supreme Court of the United States. The

9:28

court has been handing down its last handful

9:30

of decisions for the term. One more decision

9:33

day coming on Monday. Today

9:35

though, in addition to that Chevron

9:37

deference case, the justices also ruled six

9:39

to three that city bans on

9:41

homeless encampments on streets and sidewalks are

9:44

not unconstitutional. That is

9:46

one extreme end of an ongoing

9:48

housing crisis in this country, crises

9:50

really of supply and affordability. We

9:53

got more evidence of that this week. The

9:55

National Association of Realtors told us

9:57

that pending home sales fell about

9:59

two percent. in May, and the group

10:01

predicted median existing home prices are going to keep

10:04

on rising to more than $400,000 this

10:06

year. That's up about 4% from 2023. Marketplace's Mitchell Hartman

10:12

has the rest of that story. The spring

10:15

home selling season is wrapping up.

10:17

And if you're the chief economist for

10:19

the country's realtors, you can say goodbye

10:21

to it with a Bronx cheer. Home

10:24

sales activity for spring 2024,

10:26

it was a

10:28

sluggish disappointment. That's

10:30

Lawrence Yoon at the National Association of

10:32

Realtors. Pending contracts, lowest

10:35

ever since we began our

10:37

measurement from 2001. Meanwhile,

10:40

the sale prices listed on those

10:42

contracts are the highest in U.S.

10:44

real estate history. Part

10:46

of the problem is very low

10:48

inventory of homes for sale because

10:50

of what's called the lock-in effect.

10:52

Homeowners with a 3% mortgage

10:55

don't want to put their house on the

10:57

market, then swallow a mortgage rate that's twice

10:59

as high on their next house. Yoon

11:01

says this is starting to change.

11:04

Life moves on. There's divorces,

11:07

marriages. People have additional child

11:09

in the family. Maybe

11:11

people are looking for different school districts.

11:13

People want to change residence. And

11:16

recently, the supply of homes for

11:18

sale has increased. But

11:20

just when that happened, home demand

11:22

turned sour, at least demand for

11:25

homes at their current astronomical prices.

11:28

One reason is those high mortgage rates. And

11:30

then there's all the other rising expenses

11:33

families are dealing with. Robert

11:35

Dietz at the National Association of

11:37

Homebuilders says we're facing a

11:39

multi-decade low in housing affordability

11:41

conditions. Price to income ratios

11:44

expanding as home prices increase.

11:46

Dietz estimates that after years

11:48

of underbuilding, the U.S. has

11:50

a deficit of one and

11:52

a half million new homes.

11:55

If we're able to increase housing production by about

11:57

100,000 homes a year, It's

12:00

going to take a decade. So

12:03

maybe at this point you could let

12:05

spring turn to summer without trying to

12:08

become a homeowner, says Chris Mayer at

12:10

Columbia Business School. I hear

12:12

it over and over again. When you rent, you're

12:14

flushing money away. I don't think that's

12:16

true. It makes perfect

12:19

sense if rent is low

12:21

relative to buying that you should rent and

12:23

take the money that you would have spent

12:25

buying the home. And save it

12:27

for later. I'm Mitchell Hartman

12:29

for Marketplace. If

12:46

you had to pick one word, one

12:48

idea to sum up the American economy

12:51

the past two-ish years, it

12:53

might be normalization. Fly

12:55

chains, inflation, GDP growth, they have all

12:57

normalized from the height of the pandemic.

13:00

According to data out this week from the Bureau

13:02

of Labor Statistics, we can

13:04

add work from home to

13:06

that normalization list. The BLS

13:08

says that in 2023,

13:10

35% of employed people did some or all

13:13

of their work at home. And

13:15

while that is more than 10 percentage points higher than in

13:17

2019, didn't change much

13:20

from 2022 as workplaces

13:22

and workers, I suppose, settled into their

13:24

new normal. Marketplace's Elizabeth Travall

13:27

has that story from home. There's

13:30

something special about today's data from

13:32

the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Daniel

13:34

Hammermush with UT Austin says, imagine

13:36

a bunch of American workers filling

13:38

out diaries of how they spend

13:40

their time. The beauty

13:42

of the diaries is you fill it out when

13:45

you start an activity, when you finish an activity,

13:47

or at least you do it in retrospect over

13:49

a day, and it's got to be

13:51

24 hours, no fooling

13:53

around. The data reflects people's

13:55

routines, work, leisure, childcare

13:58

in 2023. But

14:01

Hammermesh doubts that much has changed today.

14:03

So I ask him, if the work

14:05

from home rate is hovering around 35%,

14:07

can we go ahead and chisel that

14:11

into stone? You use something a

14:13

little bit less durable than stone

14:15

because something could come along just

14:17

as COVID did to completely surprise

14:19

people. And so, yes, it's interesting.

14:22

Nothing else happens of totally revolutionary importance. It

14:24

will be this way for quite a while,

14:26

I predict. But work from home

14:28

rate has leveled off in the past couple

14:30

of years. Jose Maria Barreiro is with the

14:32

Mexico Autonomous Institute of Technology and studies the

14:35

transition to work from home in the U.S.

14:38

Looking ahead, he says, If anything,

14:40

work from home is likely to increase

14:42

in the long term. And so the

14:44

reason basically being technology. Technology that makes

14:46

it even easier to do our jobs

14:48

at home in our pajama pants. But

14:51

many employees did actually have to put their

14:54

work pants on in 2023. In

14:57

fact, the BLS data show that there

14:59

was also an increase of people who

15:01

went into the workplace, either sometimes or

15:03

full time. There may be

15:05

a move towards more hybrid

15:08

work. Economist Emma Harrington

15:10

with the University of Virginia says

15:12

there are benefits to the hybrid

15:14

model. You get focused time at

15:16

home for cranking out tasks. And

15:19

then also some of that more collaborative

15:21

time in the office where you're having

15:23

those, you know, inspirational water

15:25

cooler chats. For some, it's the

15:27

best of both worlds. I'm

15:30

Elizabeth Troval for Marketplace. Thank

15:54

you. Coming

16:03

up, the economic model

16:06

for EMS-based community paramedicine is

16:08

very challenging. Getting

16:10

medical care when you need it, but

16:12

more particularly where you need it. First

16:14

though, let's do the numbers. Dow

16:18

industrial's off 45 points today at 10%, 39,118.

16:23

The NASDAQ dipped 126 points, 7 tenths of 1%, finished at 17,732. The

16:29

S&P 500 slid 22 points, about 4 tenths percent, 54 and

16:31

64. The

16:35

Dow dwindled just a tenth of 1%. The NASDAQ

16:37

gained about a quarter percent. The S&P 500 slipped

16:40

a tenth percent. Monday and Tuesday next week,

16:42

by the way, normal trading days. Early close

16:44

Wednesday off Thursday for the 4th, back to

16:46

work on Friday on Wall Street.

16:49

Nike stock ran down a whopping 20%. Today,

16:52

that's after it reported less than expected quarterly

16:54

revenue. The company said it

16:56

expects a sales drop of 10% this

16:58

quarter due to soft sales in China

17:00

and, quote, uneven consumer trends globally. Bond

17:03

prices fell when that happens. The yield goes the

17:05

other way. Up the yield on the 10-year T-note,

17:07

4.38%. To

17:10

end the week, you're listening to Marketplace. This

17:23

is Marketplace.

17:34

I'm Kai Rizdahl. Ticker symbol CVX

17:36

up about a quarter percent today

17:39

in New York. If

17:41

you're not up to speed on your New

17:43

York Stock Exchange tickers, that's Chevron, which I

17:45

mentioned not as a measure of what traders

17:47

think of that company's prospects, but

17:50

as a shorthand way to get into the nuts

17:52

and bolts of what Catherine and Gina and I

17:54

were talking about earlier. The Supreme Court this morning

17:56

overturning a doctrine known as the Chevron deference, which

17:58

again, until today. held that federal

18:00

agencies and regulators in their areas of

18:03

expertise are the best ones to

18:05

decide how laws should be applied in actual practice.

18:07

So what happens now

18:09

for those agencies and regulators?

18:12

Here's Marketplace's Kimberly Adams. The

18:15

end of the Chevron deference will mean

18:17

changes for federal agencies and for lawmakers,

18:19

says Kristin Hickman, a professor at the

18:22

University of Minnesota Law School. The

18:24

Supreme Court is signaling

18:26

as strongly as it

18:29

is able that it

18:31

expects Congress to be

18:33

a little bit more

18:35

careful in how it

18:37

drafts statutes. And

18:39

she says the court won't be as willing as

18:41

it was in the past. To

18:44

allow Congress to just

18:46

fall back on agencies

18:49

rather than making some

18:51

hard choices for itself.

18:54

Especially when it comes to more

18:57

controversial topics like workplace safety or

18:59

environmental regulations, says Devin Ombres at

19:01

the Center for American Progress. There

19:04

is a real concern that the

19:07

court may now begin

19:09

placing statutory constructs in amber

19:11

and not allowing agencies any

19:14

flexibility to address new and

19:16

emerging challenges. Moving

19:18

forward, agencies will have to stick

19:20

to exactly what's written in the

19:22

law, says Dan Greenberg, general counsel

19:25

at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, which

19:27

filed a brief before the court

19:29

in favor of overturning the Chevron

19:31

doctrine. Congress is going

19:33

to be required to do a better job

19:35

to write clearer text, clearer

19:38

statutes, and no

19:40

longer will agencies be able to

19:42

come in and clarify ambiguities. Because

19:45

if agencies do try to interpret the

19:47

law in a way that, say, a

19:50

business or industry group thinks goes too

19:52

far, they're on notice that the

19:54

courts will probably strike it down.

19:56

Because previously, they had some degree

19:58

of independence. That era is over.

20:01

And a post-Chevron era has begun.

20:04

In Washington, I'm Kimberly Adams for

20:06

Marketplace. Healthcare,

20:21

as we know, is not distributed

20:23

evenly in this economy. It's not

20:25

distributed evenly by race. It's

20:28

not distributed evenly by income.

20:30

And it's not distributed evenly

20:32

by location. In some rural

20:34

parts of this country, the parts where

20:36

hospitals and doctors are in short supply, what's happening

20:38

is that people are calling 911 to

20:41

get basic medical care. That's

20:44

not great for a lot of

20:46

hopefully obvious reasons, but a new-ish

20:48

model called community paramedicine aims

20:51

to address it by having paramedics

20:53

regularly check in on people before

20:55

the health issue becomes an emergency.

20:57

Marfa Public Radio's Travis Bubenic reports

20:59

from West Texas. It's

21:01

a scorching hot summer day in the

21:03

tiny desert town of Terlingua, Texas, where

21:05

Susan Martin's the local EMS chief. This

21:08

is our apparatus bay. We do have the one ambulance.

21:11

We have a rescue vehicle now that serves

21:13

kind of as an all-purpose vehicle for us.

21:16

It's what our community paramedics run

21:18

out of when they go on

21:20

calls. Martin's small crew, fewer than

21:22

10 people, responds to 911 calls

21:25

across a dusty 3,000-square-mile range of

21:27

rural West Texas. A lot

21:29

of what we're seeing now with the

21:31

heat is environmental, some dehydration, some heat

21:33

exhaustion, things like that. Martin says they

21:35

also get calls from people with chronic

21:37

health issues. Some patients

21:39

don't understand their medications. They

21:41

don't make me feel good, so I don't want to take them, so I

21:43

don't take them. Then I end up being a 911 call. The

21:46

closest hospital is more than an hour away,

21:48

so her department's one ambulance can be tied

21:50

up for a good chunk of the day

21:53

on an emergency call. That's a

21:55

big part of why Martin's team has launched

21:57

a community paramedicine program, where paramedics regularly change

21:59

their lives. check in on people with known

22:01

health issues, patients who might not get

22:03

to the doctor as often as they should. Alexandra

22:06

Hollenbeck is one of the local paramedics.

22:09

A lot of people out here, you know, they're

22:11

very reclusive. It

22:14

tends to be older people or people

22:16

with chronic illnesses such as hypertension, COPD.

22:19

A 2023 survey from a national paramedics trade

22:21

group counted more than 150 of these kinds

22:25

of community paramedicine programs across the

22:27

country. It's a growing

22:29

health care model championed by EMS agencies

22:31

and hospitals at a time when some

22:33

advocates say rural health care is

22:35

facing a crisis. Adrian Billings

22:38

is a longtime West Texas doctor and

22:40

rural health expert at Texas Tech University.

22:43

This area is one of

22:45

the most under-resourced health care

22:47

areas in our state. Billings

22:49

says for patients, routine paramedicine

22:51

check-ins at home can avoid

22:53

expensive emergency room visits. Hospitals

22:56

want to avoid that too. They can face

22:58

penalties when too many patients come back to

23:01

the ER soon after release. That's

23:03

called a readmission. From a

23:05

financial standpoint, community paramedicine programs do

23:07

help cut down on readmissions that

23:09

can be very costly for hospitals.

23:12

One KFF health news analysis from 2022 tallied

23:14

$320 million in hospital readmission penalties nationwide.

23:21

But even though paramedicine programs

23:23

can save big on costs,

23:25

preventative care like this requires

23:27

an upfront investment. The economic

23:29

model for EMS-based community paramedicine

23:31

is very challenging. That's

23:33

Matt Zavodsky, a longtime emergency medicine

23:35

professional in Texas who now works

23:37

for a national consulting firm for

23:39

EMS operations. He

23:41

says insurance providers, Medicare, Medicaid,

23:43

and private insurers mostly

23:46

don't cover paramedics making house calls.

23:48

So we've got EMTs and paramedics

23:50

all over the country who are

23:53

doing the right thing by trying

23:55

to work with patients to prevent

23:57

unnecessary emergency department visits. But

23:59

yet they're not. not eligible for reimbursement.

24:02

The new paramedicine program in small town Terlingua

24:04

is being funded as part of a broader

24:07

$5 million U.S. Department of Agriculture

24:09

Rural Development Grant, with

24:11

no guarantees for long-term funding. Being

24:14

able to prove to the payers that

24:16

these programs are economically more efficient

24:19

than a 911 call

24:21

to the emergency department is going to

24:23

be crucial for those rural communities to

24:26

sustain these outstanding programs. Zavotsky

24:28

hopes that with time and data, community

24:30

paramedicine programs will be able to prove

24:32

their worth to healthcare insurers. In

24:36

Marfa, Texas, I'm Travis Bovetic for

24:38

Marketplace. This

24:50

final note on the way out today, which caught my

24:52

eye, I think because I'm going to be on and

24:54

off airplanes a lot over the next five weeks. I

24:56

saw this in the Wall Street Journal, data courtesy of

24:59

TSA, that seven of the 10 busiest

25:01

days in the history of the

25:03

TSA, 20-something years, have happened

25:05

between the 23rd of May and

25:07

today. Daily record, you're shy of 3

25:09

million people passing through checkpoints. Here is

25:12

one reason why. Although

25:14

they are still higher than they were in the before

25:16

times, airfares are down almost 6%

25:18

over the past year or so. Our

25:21

theme music was composed by BJ

25:23

Liederman, Marketplace's executive producer is Nancy

25:25

Fargali. Donna Tam is the executive

25:27

editor. Neil Scarborough is the

25:29

vice president and general manager. I'm Kai Rizal. Have

25:31

yourself a great weekend, everybody. We will see you

25:33

again on Monday. All

25:38

right? This

25:45

is APM.