0:03

You ended up being introduced by Larry

0:05

David to, you know, part of

0:07

one of the most famous dynasties

0:09

in this country, you know, and

0:12

you ended up marrying one of the Kennedys.

0:15

I did not grow up that

0:17

way. My family, we

0:20

never talked politics. You

0:22

know, if I asked my mom who she was voting

0:24

for, she'd say none of my business. There are some

0:27

things you don't talk about, people. And

0:29

politics is one of them. I didn't

0:31

have an idea who the

0:33

Kennedys were. I would have

0:35

never in a million years imagined

0:39

that this would

0:41

be my life. It's

0:43

a fine line to write, still

0:46

find the comedy and the

0:48

fun in situations. A

0:50

lot of times we'll be at a big

0:52

dinner table and somebody will be a low

0:54

talker. And then

0:56

you're talking about something very serious and

0:59

it's just like, you

1:02

know, when I was a father, my father said

1:04

to me, one thing that I never wanted to

1:06

do, and Bobby and her are like, wait,

1:09

did you say your father? And

1:11

they're like, yes. And

1:13

on his deathbed. And

1:16

we're like, and then, you know,

1:18

at some point you're just like, uh-huh. Wow.

1:22

Okay. Yes.

1:24

And you had a very scary experience

1:26

with an intruder. With

1:28

Bobby, it's intense. There

1:31

are people that want to hurt him and we've seen

1:33

it. I'm

1:36

home. I'm in my office

1:39

and I look outside and I see

1:41

a guy I don't recognize coming in

1:43

the backyard. And then

1:46

I watch security, you know,

1:49

taken down and somebody

1:52

in the living room is calling 911

1:54

and I'm like, I think it's actually an

1:57

under control. I

2:00

mean, I guess your definition of under control has to

2:02

shift in your life. I'm

2:05

gonna be your hollux breakdown, she's gonna

2:07

break it down for you. Because

2:10

you know the thing I wanna do.

2:12

She's gonna break down, she's

2:14

gonna break it down. My

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3:50

I'm Myambialik. I'm

3:57

Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. This

4:00

is the place where we break things down. You

4:02

never really give me that line. So you don't have to. This is

4:04

the place where we break things down, so you don't have to. Today

4:08

we're going to break down a very, very funny

4:10

human. Very excited. It's very exciting. I've

4:13

worked adjacent to this person, but I really

4:16

feel like I know her. Emmy

4:18

Award-nominated actress, director and producer

4:21

Cheryl Hines. She's perhaps

4:23

best known for her role as Cheryl

4:26

on Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is currently

4:29

airing its 12th and

4:31

final season. I freaked out when I saw that that

4:33

season was. I didn't know. And I just opened HBO

4:35

Max, and then all of a sudden there it was.

4:37

I was like, oh my God. Yeah. I'm very excited.

4:40

Well, she's been a huge part of it. Also directing

4:42

an episode of,

4:44

and many other things, but an episode of Curb

4:46

in particular. Cheryl

4:48

does lots of awesome things. She has a

4:52

company that she started with her daughter, called Hines

4:54

and Young. We're going to talk about that. So

4:57

many things to ask Cheryl Hines about.

4:59

Welcome to the breakdown. Thanks, guys. How

5:02

was it to hear part of your bio? It's

5:06

always strange. You're like, oh, that's interesting. And

5:09

actually something that I would like to add, which I

5:12

didn't sort of read from the bio. I

5:14

know you as a Groundling alum because I grew

5:16

up in L.A. and I have many friends who

5:18

are part of the Groundlings company. And

5:21

you're a huge part of that community

5:24

and that whole world.

5:26

That world. That improv world. Exactly. That

5:28

improv sketch. Yeah. Yeah.

5:32

And you were there in some pretty interesting

5:35

years. Like you were there when Will Forte was

5:37

there. Will Forte was there. And

5:40

a lot of overlap. I was looking at your cast picture and

5:42

I've seen a lot of those people for years

5:44

in Groundlings. Martha McCarthy, Kristen Wiggles,

5:46

right before Kristen Wigg, but

5:49

Chris Parnell. Wow. There's

5:54

so many. There's

5:57

just Rachel Harris. Yeah. In front of my...

6:00

Yeah, it's crazy. I

6:04

have so many things I want to ask

6:06

you about, but I'd like to start there

6:08

if we can, because for people who are

6:10

not in the comedy world, a

6:13

lot of people don't realize it's like

6:15

Groundlings, and Upright Citizen Brigade, and Second

6:17

City. Those are the places in the

6:19

country, and Greater

6:21

Northern America being respectful to the Canadian in

6:23

the room. We're

6:26

definitely people. Second

6:28

City is... We're hilarious.

6:35

But those are kind of like the places, and

6:37

a lot of people come to the cities that

6:39

those places are in order to make it big,

6:42

and you start often in these

6:44

theaters, and you end up

6:46

building a repertoire, you build a character,

6:48

you build relationships, and

6:51

you went from that to obviously

6:53

other acting roles, but this

6:55

role that you are most known for is really,

6:58

it's an extended long form improv, right?

7:00

It is. And I wonder when

7:02

you started doing improv and doing sketch,

7:04

did you feel like this

7:07

is my gateway to something

7:09

else? Like when Curb came about, nobody

7:11

else was doing what Curb was doing

7:13

that way. Right. Actually, they're still not,

7:15

which is interesting. I don't know of

7:17

any sitcom that's all

7:20

improvised. But yeah,

7:22

it's funny because when I was

7:24

at the groundlings, I really felt

7:27

more at home doing sketch comedy,

7:29

writing sketch, performing sketch, and

7:32

then improv was just, you

7:35

know, I did my best. Some

7:38

people are great at it. Yeah. Well,

7:41

what we do on Curb is different than what you

7:43

do on a live show

7:45

on stage, right? You're on stage,

7:48

you know this better than anybody, they

7:50

say, what are these two people doing? They

7:52

work at Dunkin' Donuts, lights go down, lights

7:55

go up, and then now you're in a

7:57

scene about Dunkin' Donuts. And it's

7:59

terrifying. To me, it makes me

8:01

cry. I keep trying

8:03

to do the cooking with gas show. It

8:06

doesn't go well. Yeah, same.

8:08

And they're like, no, just come back. But

8:11

it's different because on Curb, so

8:14

that is more about deciding

8:18

on a character in a

8:20

moment. And they always say,

8:22

take it to 10. So why

8:25

are you watching this moment in time?

8:27

It's not two people saying, hi, how's it going?

8:30

There's a crisis. There's something going on. Put

8:32

your hands up. Yeah, exactly. So

8:34

some people and some

8:37

improvisers, especially

8:39

at the groundings, just because I know

8:41

them, are so good at, they

8:43

can reference pop culture,

8:46

politics. They have everything on

8:48

their fingertips. And I am

8:51

not necessarily that person. When

8:54

I did, when I guess

8:56

did, there was a

8:58

long form, the second act as the

9:00

long form. And what

9:03

was chosen was Harry Potter. And I

9:05

had not read or seen

9:07

any Harry Potter on this

9:09

stage. And it's like, oh,

9:11

she's famous. I had

9:13

no, I was like, I vaguely know

9:16

that they're sorcery. And I

9:18

literally just was the sidekick in

9:20

every scene that I did. And I

9:22

literally didn't go back for five years. I mean, it

9:25

was horrible. It wasn't like, oh, you did great. It

9:27

was like, I don't know any of these references. It

9:30

was really bad. There was a sketch that you were in.

9:32

I forget who your partner was. When

9:34

I did it more recently. And the

9:38

reference was a book that he clearly

9:41

didn't know. And mine

9:43

didn't know that he didn't know it. We

9:45

had to do a Dr. Seuss book. I

9:48

don't know why he didn't know what Dr. Seuss

9:50

was, but he didn't get the rhyming thing. So I

9:52

kept rhyming. Oh, sometimes it's funny. But

9:54

the Harry Potter one, if you have to have

9:56

a reference, that's very, very

9:58

difficult. But what did you do? Were

10:00

there specific characters then that you enjoyed creating

10:03

in your time there that were more

10:05

part of like I like writing and

10:07

creating this world as opposed to improv?

10:09

Yes, yes. Yeah,

10:12

you know, I had some some

10:15

fun characters and you know when

10:18

the you know there was a girl that was going

10:20

over to see her boyfriend and she wanted for him

10:23

to buzz her in because she was downstairs. And

10:25

he just kept making her, you know, kept

10:27

asking these very personal questions before he buzzer

10:29

in and now people are at the door

10:31

there, you know, they're listening to what kind

10:33

of condoms and, you know, I hope you're going

10:35

to drink a lot and it's like, oh my

10:38

God, just buzz me in. So

10:40

there were things like that that

10:42

I felt like, okay, this is,

10:44

you know, I

10:46

can control it. I can write

10:48

it. I can think about it. So

10:52

there were a

10:54

listen, I was in the Sunday company at

10:57

the Growlings for two years, which is crazy.

10:59

So you're doing sketches

11:01

every week. You're writing new sketches

11:04

performing on Sundays. You

11:06

mentioned the word control and I think this is one

11:08

of the reasons I hate improv because I do. I

11:10

like to have, you know, a sense of control. What

11:14

is it like because, you know, how

11:17

do you seek for you, Kerb? Is

11:20

it a fusion of, you know, sort

11:22

of creating and also a character that

11:24

is established? Like, where do you feel sort

11:26

of a comfortable sense of control in

11:29

that format? Well,

11:31

Kerb is so different because, you

11:35

know, your training as an actor

11:37

is all about listening. So it's

11:39

improv, of course. It's really just

11:41

about listening. So on

11:44

Kerb, I don't have that pee

11:47

in your pants feeling like, oh,

11:50

the oven is on fire at Dunkin

11:53

Donuts and, you know, you have to

11:55

break the extinguisher. It's like, that's live

11:58

improv, right? Yeah. curb

12:00

it I know and I knew from the

12:02

beginning who Larry

12:05

David is right and

12:09

what sort

12:11

of ridiculous about him and

12:14

what the idea of the show is is just to you

12:17

know highlight

12:20

yeah right so but you're

12:23

a little bit I mean everybody's kind of laying pipe

12:25

right if you're all in with Larry you're like literally

12:27

laying case yeah you're just like oh yeah

12:29

but it's funny because I was

12:32

teaching improv when I got

12:34

that job and the first

12:36

three years of curb they

12:39

he never showed me the show outline

12:41

right so most shows have

12:44

a script this this has

12:46

a like a three to five page

12:48

outline but I didn't even get

12:50

to see that so when I would be

12:52

doing scenes with him Larry would come home

12:54

and say you know oh I just killed

12:57

the neighbor's dog oh my

12:59

god why would you always asking

13:01

questions right there would I go

13:03

to teach my class they

13:06

would say why are you we

13:08

watch you

13:10

because I don't know what's going on in other scenes

13:12

I mean I'm playing the

13:14

reality of the scene as

13:16

his wife I did nothing

13:18

he said made sense to me so I just say

13:20

just tell me what why

13:22

would you do yeah so it

13:25

was yeah it's a different vibe

13:28

yeah I I did I

13:31

did three episodes but I think I only spoke in

13:33

one and what was funny I

13:35

don't know if you know this story tell me

13:37

so I played

13:39

Jodie Fonkhauser right and

13:42

the way that I got onto

13:44

curb is I was auditioning it was after I had

13:46

had two kids it was I think

13:48

before I got Big Bang and I had

13:50

just started auditioning for things and I was auditioning in a

13:53

building and as I was walking down the hall I

13:55

saw that it was the Curb Your Enthusiasm casting

13:57

office I've never done this in my life

14:00

I walked in and I was like, I'm down

14:02

the hall for another audition. It's

14:04

not even that it's my favorite show. This show

14:06

is my life. I am Larry David and I

14:08

just want you to know, I'm auditioning again and

14:10

I exist. And my name is Mayim Bialik. And

14:13

whoever was sitting at the desk was like, oh my gosh,

14:15

hi, that's really awesome. I never thought

14:17

I'd hear anything. And

14:20

several weeks later, I got a call to audition

14:22

for Curb Your Enthusiasm. And I was like, the

14:24

one time I actually put myself out there was

14:27

for something I really, really felt passionate. So

14:29

I went in and they gave me a

14:31

slip of paper. Yeah. And it

14:33

was literally a slip of paper. It's like

14:35

an inch. It's like a ransom note, not

14:37

even. And it said, you run into Larry

14:40

and Jeff and you're excited to see Larry,

14:42

you're not excited to see, that's it. And

14:44

that was all the information. I was cast from

14:46

that audition. I'm a terrible, improper person, you know

14:48

this. I don't think that's it. But I was

14:51

like, I didn't even have much to say. They

14:53

hired me and I figured, okay, well, I'll get

14:55

to see the outline. Nope. What

14:58

was the audition though? It was

15:00

a pretty good one, but you skipped over the part where you had

15:02

to play that out. Yeah, and I was

15:04

just like, sorry. I

15:06

was like, hey, nice to see you. Hey, like

15:08

that was it. And then the audition was over

15:11

and I got the job. And then the day

15:13

that I showed up for work, I

15:15

was getting no more information. And

15:17

they were like, okay, now you're gonna do that scene

15:19

that was on your piece of paper. And there was

15:22

Larry and Jeff. And I

15:24

didn't know that my character was a lesbian. I didn't

15:26

know anything. I didn't know that until the episode came out. And

15:30

then I got to be in

15:32

two other episodes with Bob. And

15:35

we had this unbelievable, it was a wedding scene.

15:38

And I didn't speak, but they needed

15:41

me there because I was like part of the family, right? And

15:43

Bob, yeah, he

15:47

narrated what every extra was thinking the whole

15:49

time. And it was a running commentary the

15:51

whole day. And we were peeing in our

15:53

pants. He was unbelievable. And that was my

15:55

day. He was, he really

15:58

was entertained by. the

16:01

atmosphere workers. And he

16:03

would always look across the room, oh my gosh, he'd look across the

16:05

room and go, these

16:09

are all my friends and

16:11

family, look around you. And

16:15

the poor actors that are extras,

16:17

you know, they're just like, what? Oh,

16:20

he had a hall. He would whisper to

16:22

me, this one is a butcher. Oh no.

16:24

And she met him in

16:26

their third date. He brought a piece of

16:28

corn. And it would just go on

16:30

and on. Anyway, I had

16:33

a wonderful time, but I was

16:35

surprised that you literally don't know

16:37

what else is happening. No, you

16:39

really don't. There's something about your

16:41

role on Curb that is actually

16:43

quite hilariously

16:45

resembles like the

16:48

stereotypical wife, you know, and

16:50

like reflective of relationships. What

16:53

are you talking about? Like, I

16:56

talked to my about my business.

16:59

And she's like, I don't understand anything that

17:01

you're saying to me. Why are you traveling

17:04

to this city? And so like, that's just

17:06

on steroids. Right. Just

17:09

so which is so just so perfect. Well,

17:12

yeah, well, thank you. But I do think

17:14

a lot of couples

17:16

see themselves in these characters. Yeah.

17:20

And sometimes it's it's sometimes it's opposite. But a

17:22

lot of times the

17:25

husband is Larry David and the wife is Cheryl

17:27

David. I'm gonna and, you know, I

17:30

love that you didn't have to stay married,

17:32

meaning your characters didn't have to stay married the whole

17:35

time. I think that's really interesting. And I think it's

17:37

I think it's important. You know, it's an important dynamic. I

17:40

wonder for you, you know, as an

17:42

actress in terms of this is a long time

17:44

to play a role, you know, it's like a

17:46

really long time. And yes, there was a

17:48

hiatus. But yeah, it's a really long

17:50

time to play that role. Is

17:53

there ever a desire to be

17:55

able to be a different version of this character or is it

17:57

kind of like once you sign up for the show? for

18:00

this formula, you're in it. Oh

18:02

yeah, no. No,

18:05

Curb is its own

18:07

animal. You

18:11

know what I mean? There's no changing it.

18:13

Yeah. And- Like you're gonna be

18:15

blonde. And like you couldn't be like, I wanna

18:17

be a red. Like I need to make out

18:20

of myself. No, no, no,

18:22

cause it's never about Cheryl

18:24

David. It's really

18:26

how Larry David sees

18:28

the world. It's through his lens. So

18:31

there's never gonna be a side, you

18:33

know, a B story of

18:36

Cheryl David gets a job. It's

18:38

like, that's just not this kind of show.

18:41

You know what I mean? I wonder if that's, I

18:43

think that's a lot of women's experience, especially before

18:46

the women's revolution, right, before the

18:48

feminist revolution. Like you were just that

18:50

person's, there's sometimes if you look

18:52

in old cemeteries, sometimes women are buried

18:54

as wife of, like John

18:57

Smith. Her name's not even

18:59

on the gravestone. So I'm not saying that

19:01

this is like, you know, the

19:03

1700s on Curb Your Enthusiasm. No, but I think

19:05

it's an interesting thing that as an actor, you're

19:08

given a role and you kind of have to

19:10

play it. And especially for women, sometimes you

19:12

are. Yeah, I'm,

19:14

yeah, cause I mean,

19:18

maybe I'm crazy. That

19:20

may be true. I think on, I

19:22

think it was on SNL, this is like years

19:25

and years ago. I think

19:27

they did a Curb Sketch and somebody

19:29

played me and they were

19:31

just, you know, with a dish

19:34

towel, like just doing nothing

19:36

with the dish towel, saying, Larry, and I

19:38

was like, oh my gosh. That's

19:40

kind of, it's just Cheryl waiting for

19:42

Larry to walk in the door and go, what are you

19:44

up to? And

19:47

I never really thought about it until I saw that. I said,

19:49

oh, I guess that

19:52

is, I'm just always at home. Wow.

19:54

So, Larry, you know what

19:56

I mean? Or we're out to dinner or something. But if

19:59

there isn't, the one. person grounded in some

20:01

form of reality you don't really see

20:03

how just how absurd it is. So

20:05

like for... No you're

20:08

the audience in that sense. You're the

20:10

person understand helping us understand. I'm just

20:12

trying to think about like the audience who

20:14

may be listening that like hasn't seen

20:16

Curb. Like how would we describe...

20:19

It's like this podcast but with

20:21

Larry David and Sarah Line. I'm

20:23

Larry David and you're Sarah Line.

20:27

How would you describe the show? Yeah how would you

20:29

do it? Like I don't know that I could do

20:31

it necessarily. I mean one of the creators of

20:33

Seinfeld right created a show that's

20:35

even more Seinfeld than Seinfeld like that.

20:37

Yeah. You know it's often like

20:41

very very small issues that get extrapolated

20:43

and blown up to the nth degree. I mean

20:46

unbelievable thing... A lot of neuroses. A lot of

20:48

neuroses, an unbelievable thing happened to this man.

20:50

And he really hates social

20:52

niceties so I mean

20:54

I have in real life been with

20:57

him when somebody calls and he says you want to

20:59

go to lunch and he's like no. And they

21:02

said oh and he

21:05

said why do you want to go to lunch? And they said

21:07

oh I just we haven't seen each other in

21:09

a year. He's like no I don't want

21:11

to go but if you want to talk about something just say

21:13

it now. And they were like oh no

21:16

I just thought it would be nice. He's

21:19

like no I don't want to do it. And

21:21

that's the part of the show that

21:23

really speaks to people because a lot

21:25

of people think that. They like to

21:27

do that. My favorite like my favorite

21:29

curbiumthusiasm moment that that I think really

21:32

typifies the show is when Larry's

21:35

mother dies and obviously

21:37

he's sad but he also is so deeply relieved

21:39

that he can use it as an excuse to

21:42

get out of everything he doesn't want to do.

21:44

And someone will call and be like you want

21:46

to do this? Oh yeah sorry my

21:48

mom just. Right. That's it.

21:50

That's the epitome of her. When

21:54

Larry was going to do that episode because you

21:56

know we would talk talk all the time he's

21:58

like what do you think about this? I like

22:01

that I'm saying that and they're gonna listen to this

22:03

and go oh really Cheryl I'm running all my ideas

22:05

by you and have to wait for you to okay

22:07

then But he said he said

22:10

I think I'm gonna do a show where my mom

22:12

dies And my dad doesn't tell me and I missed

22:15

the funeral and I said that's not funny. I Said

22:18

you can't do that. That's not

22:20

funny. He's like you watch Eddie

22:23

did the episode You

22:25

know and his dad Played

22:28

by Shelley Berman was like why I don't want to bother

22:30

you 100% I mean, that's what happened to my family I

22:35

was wrong. So what

22:37

do I know about comedy? Personally

22:43

my social battery sometimes gets a little drained

22:45

because I'm not setting enough boundaries It can

22:47

be easy to ignore our social battery. Sometimes

22:49

we spread ourselves too thin. What's the right

22:51

amount of socializing for you? How do you

22:53

recharge? I found that therapy is a place

22:56

that can give me the self-awareness to build

22:58

a social life That doesn't drain my battery.

23:00

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EL P comm slash break Mind

23:25

me. I'll break down is supported by air B&B

23:29

If you're anything like me There

23:31

are times in your life when you know

23:33

that you're gonna be away from your home

23:35

for like a good chunk of time For

23:38

example, I recently worked in New Jersey

23:40

and New York and I was gone for like

23:42

almost a month Did it ever

23:44

occur to you like it just occurred to me

23:47

recently? That you

23:49

can host your space on Airbnb

23:52

Like especially so many people have put so

23:54

much love and thought into their home and

23:57

into the space. Why wouldn't someone

23:59

else? Enjoy it, and

24:01

if you're not there, you can make money

24:04

off of your own place. It's like a

24:06

really cool idea. So Airbnb Hosting

24:08

is such a great way to earn

24:10

extra money, even if it's just when

24:12

you happen to be out of town. It's also a

24:14

way to share your home and the things that you

24:16

love about it, and all of the work that you've

24:18

put into your space to make it beautiful, and let

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other people enjoy it too, and you

24:22

can make some extra money. Your home

24:25

might be worth more than you think.

24:27

Find out how much at airbnb.com/post. Were

24:33

there ideas that were discarded because they

24:35

were too crazy that you were like,

24:37

oh, thank gosh, they didn't do that?

24:40

Oh, I don't know any

24:42

that were discarded because they were

24:44

too crazy. I know, I think of the

24:46

ski lift that it's Shabbat. Do you want

24:48

to violate Shabbat? That's just a jump

24:50

up the hill. By the way, that was based

24:53

on a true story. My

24:56

father passed away almost 10 years ago,

24:58

and one of the saddest things is

25:00

that he could not experience the nerve of your enthusiasm,

25:02

because it's our life. My

25:05

dad and I have so many Larry

25:07

Davis... Things happen to me that shouldn't

25:09

happen to people. Then

25:13

I watch Curb, and I'm like, it's not

25:15

just me. It's happening to Larry. Anyway,

25:19

I do want to talk about Losing

25:22

Richard, Richard Lewis. This

25:26

is a huge

25:28

icon, obviously, in the comedy

25:31

world, and such a huge

25:33

component of this show,

25:35

and of him and Larry's

25:38

relationship. Anything

25:41

you'd like to talk about, I'm happy to

25:43

give you a little space to share anything

25:46

about Richard. I

25:48

appreciate that. I mean, I loved Richard. I

25:52

had the biggest crush on him when I was

25:55

younger, and he

25:57

was this tortured. stand

26:00

up and I was like, I like that

26:02

guy. And then when

26:04

I got to work on Curb with him,

26:06

it was really a dream come true. And

26:09

he was as neurotic as

26:11

one might think. So I remember because

26:13

you know from being on the show,

26:16

there's no rehearsal for the scene. Nobody talks

26:18

about what's gonna happen in a scene. Larry

26:21

wants it all to just be, to

26:23

capture the moment. So

26:27

even if you do have a

26:29

tiny rehearsal, you speak

26:31

gibberish. You said, oh, I'll

26:34

come over here and I'll sit down and I'll say,

26:36

la da da. Beep, beep. And then I'll walk

26:38

out the door. So this

26:41

was early on. Larry and I were across

26:43

the room. Richard was on

26:45

the other side. And before we're rolling,

26:48

Larry and I are talking about nothing. What

26:51

we're gonna have for lunch, nothing at

26:53

all interesting. And Richard's like, what are you guys

26:55

talking about? No, we're not

26:57

talking about it. You guys are coming up with

26:59

lines. Are you coming up with something funny? Cause

27:01

I've got funny stuff. And Larry's like, don't

27:04

have funny stuff. Don't think

27:06

about what you're gonna say. And he's like, well, you

27:09

guys are over there talking about what you're gonna say.

27:12

We can say we're not, we were just

27:15

talking about what we're gonna have for lunch. We're not talking about the

27:17

scene. But always, even I

27:19

had a poker party, Texas

27:23

Hold'em. And I don't think

27:25

he was putting this on. I

27:28

don't think he was, but you know, in Texas

27:30

Hold'em, you have two blind bets that go around

27:32

the table. They rotate around. And

27:35

if you were to come to Richard, we'd

27:38

say, well, you have to put in $25, whatever to say. What?

27:41

Why? Well,

27:43

that's the way that, this

27:47

is three hours into it. That's the, it rotates

27:49

around. I mean, I'm looking around. I'm the only

27:51

one putting money in. Right,

27:54

remember we just went around the whole table. You

27:56

say, I don't know what you're talking about. I

27:59

just felt like. I was being crazy. But

28:03

he was just always so, so Soulful

28:09

and sweet at the

28:11

same time. Really appreciated people. Yeah, I

28:14

think I got to, I used to go to

28:16

Jeff Garland's Break the Fast on Yom Kippur and

28:18

so Bob Saget would be, I mean like it

28:20

was just like, everybody was there. And so I

28:22

think I may have crossed paths with him at

28:24

one point, but I also had a huge crush

28:26

on him. Something about that hair, you know? It

28:29

was so hip then. It's all black. He

28:31

was always running his hands through his

28:33

hair. Like, wow, this guy got a

28:35

lot going on, but I like

28:37

it. I

28:40

wonder if we can dip into a little bit of

28:44

what your life was like kind of before you

28:46

got to Groundling. You're born in

28:48

Florida, is that right? Yes. Okay.

28:51

And you

28:53

come from humble beginnings and

28:55

kind of an interesting story. I wonder if you

28:57

can talk a little bit about like how you

28:59

grew up and were your parents creative? Was it

29:01

just you? So

29:04

I did. I grew up in

29:06

Florida, mostly

29:09

Central Florida and then Tallahassee. Yes,

29:13

very humble beginnings. My

29:17

dad had

29:20

different jobs throughout his life.

29:23

One time he, for

29:25

no reason whatsoever, I don't know what, you

29:27

know, was he a great businessman? No. He

29:31

came home with a big van

29:33

and a few mopeds.

29:36

Oh. Yeah. And we were like, what's happening?

29:39

He's like, this is the new business. Oh, like

29:41

how is this a business? So

29:44

I had my dad on that side. Did

29:47

the business work for how? No. Okay.

29:50

Just asking. I remember I

29:52

didn't have a car at some point, you know, I'm 16.

29:54

I don't have a car. I'm like, well,

29:56

there's the old moped. I don't remember when I

29:58

was going to a day. and I was

30:00

like, I guess I gotta go pick up the

30:03

corsage on my moped. But

30:07

then my mom was really always

30:09

working. There

30:12

were four kids. And

30:14

yeah, I mean, we were on free

30:16

lunch when I was little and always

30:19

wondered, well, why do I have to stand in this line? But

30:23

I have a deep appreciation for how

30:25

hard she worked. And

30:27

they were fun. My mom's

30:30

still around and she's

30:33

having a ball. Some days, some

30:36

days I'm having a ball. I'm

30:38

like, all right. But

30:41

yeah, my sister and

30:43

I would, and

30:47

I guess my brothers, they weren't quite

30:49

as enthusiastic as we were, but we would put

30:51

on sketch comedy shows every

30:54

Sunday. They weren't good. So

30:57

don't be too impressed. But yeah, I don't

31:00

know why. I don't

31:02

know why I had

31:04

that instinct from early on. Who took the lead

31:06

amongst your siblings? Were you writing

31:08

and producing and directing, or was it collaborative? How

31:10

did you guys get into that? I

31:15

mean, my sister was very bossy.

31:19

I know she's listening. My

31:22

sister, Dr. Becky Hines, first doctor in

31:24

the family. But

31:26

yeah, I don't know. We

31:28

just had a good system. It's like, okay,

31:31

you ready to do the elevator sketch? Yep.

31:34

And then whatever friends were over, we'd make

31:36

them wear a hat and tell them what

31:38

to do. What

31:41

number are you in birth order? Three.

31:44

Okay. So it went?

31:47

It went my brother, Chris,

31:49

who passed away. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank

31:52

you. My sister, me, and then I have a

31:54

younger brother. Got it. Wow.

31:58

Are any of them creative, or are you... really

32:00

the... They're

32:04

creative. My sister Becky is very

32:06

creative. Right. Now

32:09

Mike is listening going, OK, what am I?

32:11

Well, I'm just like, you know, so like,

32:13

are they musicians? Are they actors? Are they

32:15

Becky is she's a great writer.

32:17

She's she's an idea person

32:21

and a good executor. It's

32:23

my dad. My dad ideas.

32:26

I was just like, I just bought some

32:28

op-eds. Like, well, hmm. And

32:32

then Mike is more of a he's

32:34

more of a. Well,

32:38

he was teaching. And then

32:40

when I started Heinzen Young, he's now

32:42

running our warehouse. Oh, cool. He's a,

32:44

you know,

32:47

a worker. Like, yeah, get it

32:49

all done. Like, OK. Did

32:54

you always know you wanted to be an actor? Yes.

32:57

Were there other things you were interested in or you felt

32:59

like that was a? Well,

33:01

I felt like that. I

33:04

never felt like there was going to be

33:06

anything other than that. But after

33:09

I graduated from high school, I

33:11

didn't think I was going to go to college. I

33:14

couldn't afford it for one thing, but also didn't

33:16

have a desire. And I went to beauty school.

33:18

Wow. And I got my

33:20

cosmetology license. And then

33:22

while I was in beauty school, all of my friends

33:24

were in college. And I kept thinking, oh

33:27

boy, when they graduate, are they going to be smarter

33:29

than me? Like, what are they teaching? What are they

33:31

what do they know that I don't know? So I

33:34

felt I felt like I really need to

33:36

go to college just to see what

33:38

are missing if for no other reason. So

33:41

I worked in a salon during the day and I

33:43

bartended at night for probably

33:45

a year and just saved as much

33:47

money as I could. And then I put myself through school. Wow.

33:50

Where did you go to school? Where didn't I go

33:52

to school? Got it. I

33:55

graduated from the University of

33:57

Central Florida. Wow. Yeah. cool.

34:00

That's awesome. Yeah, no,

34:03

it's great. I had

34:06

a really great experience and

34:08

I majored in television production,

34:10

minored in theater. I wanted to major in theater

34:13

but I couldn't because I couldn't be in the

34:15

plays at night because I had to work. Wow.

34:18

That's a slog to put

34:21

yourself through school like that. I mean

34:23

like that's no joke. By

34:25

the way, I still owed on

34:27

student loans when I got curbier enthusiasm.

34:29

Wow. Yeah. That's incredible.

34:31

That's incredible though.

34:37

I'm really fascinated with beauty

34:39

school. I mean, partly because like if you grew

34:42

up watching

34:44

the movie Grease, which was my

34:46

favorite. I was born in 75 so I was like the

34:48

perfect age to

34:51

fall in love with Grease, right? And so

34:53

there's a whole thing about beauty school. I

34:55

was like throughout beauty school dropout. But

34:59

it always really fascinated me. And then

35:01

my mom was raised in

35:03

the 50s and 60s. And

35:06

so I also grew up with these amazing

35:08

stories based on photos of like they would

35:10

wrap toilet paper around their beehive and you'd

35:12

sleep in it and just all the cool

35:14

things about hair. All the things that she

35:17

would iron her hair in the 70s on

35:19

her body. She once burned herself. Anyway, did

35:21

you have a specialty or did you love

35:23

doing hair? Did you love doing makeup? Like

35:25

what did you do? Okay. First

35:28

of all, I was 17. Wow. So

35:30

I graduated high school when I was 17.

35:33

So I started beauty school when I was

35:35

17. This was in the heyday of perms

35:38

and hairy girls. So

35:41

and there were only a few

35:43

young, there were only

35:45

I think like three girls

35:47

that had just come out of high school. Everybody

35:49

else was sort of older and

35:52

like they knew this they were pretty

35:54

serious about it. But we would stay

35:56

out all night. We would go

35:58

to school in the morning. shampoo

36:01

each other's hair, put it in

36:03

curlers, and then sleep under the

36:05

hairdryer. Wow. Till my instructor

36:07

would, you know, bang on the hairdryer.

36:10

You can't sleep all day in

36:13

this class. So, um, what was

36:15

I good at? I don't know.

36:18

Haircuts, I guess. Okay. Not

36:20

color. Oh, color? I mean,

36:22

it's also come, it's come quite a distance since

36:24

probably what it was like. Not that you're that

36:26

old. I'm just saying, like the technology is... I

36:28

am that old. And second of all, it

36:30

hasn't changed that much. Right. But

36:33

perms were, perms

36:36

were tough because, you

36:38

know, you can really burn

36:41

somebody's hair. And

36:44

this one guy that I met,

36:46

he's, we were talking, he said, oh, did you

36:48

do pocket perms? And I said, what?

36:50

What's that? What is a pocket perm? And

36:52

he said, well, when I was in beauty school,

36:54

and I would give somebody a perm, when I would

36:57

rinse the rod, the hair and the rod, sometimes the

36:59

whole rod with the hair

37:01

wrapped around it would break off and drop

37:03

into the shampoo bowl. He said, and I

37:05

would just reach in and grab

37:07

it and read in my pocket before they noticed

37:09

that their hair just fell off. Because

37:12

the chemicals are so harsh. You're so strong. I mean,

37:15

you're literally changing the, they're trying to change the

37:17

follicle. Yes! It doesn't want to change. You soften,

37:19

you soften the hair. This is not a perm,

37:21

by the way. This is the real deal. Well,

37:23

by the way, if I let

37:26

my hair go, it would look like that. My

37:28

hair is curly. I didn't know that. No, it's

37:30

crazy. And when I was in Florida, when

37:33

I first started out, I mean,

37:35

my hair was just curly,

37:38

frizzy, not curly. Well,

37:40

Florida weather is like... And

37:42

my agent, I had an agent

37:44

at the time, and this before

37:46

I had done anything, he said, well,

37:48

you've been booked for a print job.

37:51

It's like a print job, like a model.

37:58

Somebody looked at my picture and they won. Me

38:00

for a print job?" And they said, yeah. I

38:02

said, oh my god, that's amazing. So

38:05

I get to the job

38:07

and I said, what do you, you know,

38:10

what do you need me to do? And

38:12

they said, it's, this is

38:14

for salon. We correct people

38:16

that have bad perms. And

38:19

they said, we just need you to hold up

38:21

some of your hair. Your regular hair. My

38:23

hair. And I don't even have a

38:25

perm. And to look at my hair. I

38:27

was the before. And look at my hair

38:29

with a face like, uh oh. Look

38:32

at my hair. And then they put, and then when

38:34

they ran it, they said, bad perm. We can help.

38:39

How much did you get paid for that?

38:41

Oh my, I have no idea. Like $50.

38:43

Oh my gosh. Probably just a sandwich. And

38:45

you were the before. Wow.

38:49

Do you have your, like, do you straighten it every

38:52

day or you do something to it now that makes

38:54

it stay straight? Well, first of

38:56

all, it helps that there's not the humidity. Right. And

38:59

second of all, I do keratin treatment. Oh, okay. So

39:01

you do the thing. So you don't have to do

39:03

it. And third of all, yes, I straighten it. I

39:05

just like blow it out. Like, I won't. I refuse.

39:09

That's not going to be me. Do you ever

39:11

let it go? I have it perfect. This is

39:13

very new that it started doing this. Everyone's confused.

39:17

You mean it started curling? Yes, I

39:19

don't have curly hair. That's

39:22

clearly the case. It's really cute. It doesn't

39:24

feel weird. Um, I

39:26

mean, I had six straight hair, you know, like six

39:28

straight when I was a kid. And then like when I hit

39:31

puberty, like it got, you know, what

39:33

we call a jufro, which is like half curly,

39:35

half straight, like curly underneath, but like straight on

39:37

the outside. And then I just

39:39

had like hippy chick hair, you know, even

39:41

when I was on curb, I don't even

39:43

remember what they did with it, but it

39:45

was just probably not. I mean, yeah, not

39:48

a lot. It was just like kind of,

39:50

I don't know. But then, um, it later

39:52

in life started curling. And I

39:54

mean, I'm through menopause. So that must be

39:56

it. This is my, this is my wise

39:58

hair. But

40:01

I think I look like a 1930s child. You

40:04

know, like those like Clara Bowe pictures?

40:06

Because it looks cute. I

40:09

mean, honestly, it does kind

40:11

of look like you have a perm. I

40:14

mean, in a good way. You should come back to

40:16

the 80s. A body wave. It's not. If you

40:18

use larger rods. No, I, a friend of mine, I mean,

40:20

I had to... You could be the before picture. I

40:24

literally, I have a friend who was kind of

40:26

a new friend. We met like as adults and

40:28

she's got this really awesome curly hair.

40:31

And she, I think

40:33

she was just waiting till we were close enough for her to ask,

40:35

what are you using your hair? To which

40:37

the answer was, I don't use anything. I don't

40:39

know. And she suggested what she uses. And I

40:41

think it was her way of being like, you

40:44

know, like, yeah, you don't need to look like

40:46

that. And so now when I get

40:48

out of it and I learned if

40:50

you have curly hair, you can't just take

40:52

a towel and be like, no, that's what

40:54

I've been doing. No, you have to scrunch.

40:57

Yeah. Otherwise, it gets too frizzy. So

41:00

now I scrunch and then this stuff that she told

41:02

me to buy, I put a little and I go

41:05

like that. It looks

41:07

good. He likes how it looks like

41:09

the next day when it's like, I think it was

41:12

like Einstein. If

41:14

you look at her Instagram and you

41:17

scroll, there's a handful of times where

41:19

it's just like Einstein. And

41:21

she looks, I think it's like very punk rock.

41:23

Very wise. And a little bit,

41:25

you know, artistic and a little bit badass. And

41:27

I'm like, just let go all the way. My

41:31

grandmother and my mother both had a really,

41:33

really distinct white stripe. And

41:35

I've started, I had to color my hair. So I've

41:37

started to get what I can tell will be my

41:39

which I'm very excited about. You're ready

41:41

for it. I'm totally ready. Anyway, okay,

41:44

enough about my hair in particular. Mind

41:50

be Alex breakdown is supported by third love.

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44:56

would like us to get

44:58

from Florida to Los Angeles. Okay.

45:04

Well. I mean, you also wanted to

45:06

get from Florida to Los Angeles. Yeah, I did, I

45:08

did. I just, you know, I was working at Universal

45:10

Studios and bartending

45:12

at night. In Orlando. In Orlando

45:15

to save money to move. And

45:17

then at some point I packed up my

45:19

Toyota Tercel and

45:22

I drove across the country with

45:24

my ex-boyfriend who

45:26

was driving me crazy. At the time was he right?

45:29

Yes. And I

45:31

was like, you can't go. And

45:33

he said, I've never been out of Florida. This

45:35

is my chance to leave Florida. And I was

45:37

like, yeah, okay. And it was

45:39

a long car drive. I was a long

45:41

car drive. And

45:45

then we were so confused when we got here

45:47

because in

45:49

Florida, you know, the highways,

45:51

they are, there are a lot of toll

45:53

booths. Your horse is being told. And

45:56

when we got here and we were trying to get, when we were

45:59

trying to get on to one. the three ways. It said

46:02

meter on. So we're

46:04

like digging through, looking for quarters and

46:06

we're like, where do you put the

46:08

quarters? People are honking. Like, oh, we're

46:10

paying our toll. Just

46:13

give us this. At

46:16

some point we said, okay, we're just gonna have to gun it.

46:18

I mean, we're gonna get a ticket. I don't know. I

46:20

can't find out. We're gonna put the money in. It

46:23

didn't make sense to me. So it

46:25

was definitely a culture shock. Yeah.

46:28

Did you have a plan of like, you're gonna

46:30

like, what did you know about LA at the

46:32

time? It was just like, I'm gonna show up.

46:34

I had a plan. I had a

46:37

job at the Intercontinental Hotel in

46:39

downtown. So I had a marketing job.

46:42

That was a little plans. That was good. And I had

46:46

two friends that lived

46:48

here. So that was

46:51

great. Actor friends. Yeah.

46:55

One was a professional extra. Okay.

46:58

And his boyfriend. Okay. Well,

47:02

I can't say that they had strong

47:06

careers. No, but they were

47:08

people that you knew. Oh, really? Yeah. My best

47:10

friend. Right. And so it was the three

47:12

of us, you know. So I bartend it for

47:14

a long time. And I've told this story

47:17

a few times, but that's

47:19

where I met one of

47:21

Phil Hartman's sisters. She

47:24

was at, she came to the hotel and she was

47:26

sitting at the bar. We were talking. And

47:28

she said, I want to go to the groundlings because

47:31

that's where my brother got to start. Oh my

47:33

God. And I said, what's the groundlings and

47:35

who's your brother? And she

47:37

told me, you know, you

47:39

didn't know. No. Wow. So

47:42

she said that, you

47:45

know, Phil Hartman started there doing

47:48

stand up and sketch. She

47:50

was also a very good artist. She

47:52

said. So

47:54

after that, I went to the first groundlings

47:57

show that I could on my day off. I

48:00

was so inspired by them. All

48:04

I wanted to do was take a class there, but I didn't

48:06

have enough money. I didn't even have a refrigerator. I

48:09

didn't realize that some

48:11

apartments don't come with refrigerators here.

48:15

Strange in Los Angeles. But

48:17

all I did was talk about wanting to take

48:19

a class. And for my

48:22

birthday, my regulars

48:24

and the other wait staff chipped in to

48:26

buy my first groundlings class. Wow. And

48:30

that's how it all began. That's unbelievable

48:32

though. I mean. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

48:34

Yeah. And then was that kind of

48:36

you're into groundlings and then you were kind of in

48:38

that system? Yes.

48:41

So Lisa Kudrow was my first teacher.

48:43

Wow. It was right before she got

48:46

friends. So she was on Mad About

48:48

You, which I

48:51

was starstruck. I was like, my teacher

48:53

is on television. Like

48:56

you were, what do I

48:58

call my sister? I'm like, you are not going

49:00

to believe it. But she and Lisa was so

49:02

funny and so smart and so quick. I was

49:05

so inspired by her. And

49:08

just all the people, I mean, when I

49:10

was going through this school, that's

49:13

when Sherry

49:15

O'Tary and Will Ferrell were

49:17

in the company. And I

49:20

would just watch every show every

49:22

weekend. How

49:25

long were you there? Well,

49:30

it takes a while to get

49:32

through. Yeah. I

49:34

was so probably took me six years

49:40

to get through the classes. And

49:43

then like I said, I was in the Sunday company.

49:45

So you're in the Sunday company before they ask you.

49:47

You're invited to the main company. And

49:52

that's where it usually goes off track for people.

49:55

Because there are only 30

49:57

members at the groundlings. So they can't invite someone

49:59

to be. a member until somebody else sat down.

50:02

And it's a very it's a very democratic system.

50:04

It's run by the people for the people.

50:06

And yeah. Yeah. So

50:09

you always have people

50:11

watching you and talking about your

50:13

writing and your performance and it

50:16

can be stressful. Yeah.

50:19

A lot of people audition for SNL and

50:21

things like that from there. Did you ever

50:23

audition? Was that? That I

50:25

was dying to audition for SNL. I

50:28

did audition for Mad TV probably three

50:30

times. And as a matter of fact,

50:33

when I got Curb, I was sort

50:35

of heartbroken by Mad TV because they

50:38

they had said don't, supposedly

50:40

to my agent, don't let

50:42

her take another job because we want

50:44

her. But that doesn't make sense because then why

50:46

don't you just hire her. And

50:50

then I auditioned for Curb and Curb

50:52

was just supposed to be a one hour special. So

50:55

it didn't feel like it was

50:57

going to change my life, you know. And

51:00

then it became a series. And

51:03

then I, you know, I would think back and

51:05

think, oh, I'm so glad I didn't

51:09

go to SNL or Mad TV. And

51:12

you you managed to also have a child somewhere

51:14

in here. So chronologically, I

51:16

know I'm trying to get you're in

51:18

LA. Right. I was going to

51:20

say, so you're in LA. And did

51:22

you and I know you're not married to the father

51:24

of your daughter right now, but when did you

51:26

like when did when when did your personal

51:28

life happen in Los Angeles? Yeah. So

51:31

yeah, I was single when I started Curb.

51:33

Wow. And then I met Paul

51:36

Young, my first husband, because

51:39

he was on the board at the Growling. So

51:41

I was on the board at the Growling. And

51:46

so I don't know, probably season,

51:49

probably between

51:51

season three and

51:53

season four. Something like that on Curb. But

51:56

that's also an indicator of how long

51:58

we would go in between. Right because

52:00

I never pregnant on the show amazing now

52:05

Yeah, I'm married had a baby And

52:08

that didn't work out a hundred percent but and

52:11

that baby is a grown-up now No, she's 20

52:14

and that's you started a company with her.

52:16

Yeah, that's the young that's the young I

52:18

was like right Heinz and young because it's

52:20

her daughter. It's the younger Heinz, but no

52:24

I just put it together. Yeah. Oh, it's

52:26

funny that you It takes her a minute. I

52:28

like that. No, but I like that idea. Yeah,

52:30

sorry. So you started a company Which

52:34

I know from having an 18 year old that he's

52:36

much more savvy about everything in the universe meaning like

52:39

I don't know Anytime even know how to like put

52:41

my clothes on without him doing like why did

52:43

you put your stuff on that way? Yeah, um,

52:45

so you decided to start a company with

52:47

a young person. I'm very savvy Did

52:51

you know you wanted to start this was it

52:53

something that she wanted to do? How did it

52:55

come about especially as a family Junction? Yeah I

52:57

was Starting

53:00

to get so sad thinking about her

53:02

leaving And

53:04

I thought how can I keep her? How

53:08

can I keep her clothes? Something

53:11

that you know, she'd have to talk

53:13

to me. That's why Jonathan started this podcast And

53:24

then cat and I You

53:27

know, I really we wanted to do

53:29

something that didn't use single-use

53:31

plastics. Mm-hmm. So just being I'll

53:34

say in the beauty world Which

53:36

I'm not necessarily but I do have

53:39

a history and yes, so I really

53:41

pay attention to Products

53:44

and the beauty industry is really

53:47

bad about single-use plastics. So

53:51

cat my daughter and I I

53:54

wanted to try to

53:56

do a company that didn't use single-use

53:58

plastic, but made a

54:01

line that we both

54:03

like, which wasn't

54:06

easy. But

54:10

it was great, because we have

54:12

body creams, and

54:15

we have candles, and we have

54:17

four different scents and

54:20

scent stories. And they all

54:23

smell amazing. And so we had

54:25

to agree on what it's

54:27

going to look like, what it's going to smell like, what it feels

54:29

like. Who is

54:31

in charge of marketing and the visibility

54:33

of it? Because like I said,

54:36

my 18-year-old, he knows everything

54:38

about social media and the way to do things. He

54:41

has a comment about everything that we

54:43

post. And every like, is that part of

54:45

the conversations? Or does that get left to

54:47

grown-ups? It's a

54:49

lot of grown-ups. Yeah. Also.

54:54

Because I want to believe that you can just unleash

54:56

it on the 20-year-old and be like, do it.

55:00

That's what I thought. Yeah. But

55:02

I guess it's like anything. If

55:06

you have to do it, it's like, ugh. It's

55:09

different than if you're just posting something, because

55:11

you love it. Because it's your life.

55:13

But if it's a job, then it's a different

55:15

vibe. So we have some

55:18

different people. And Kat. Kat's

55:20

a really good photographer. Oh, that's

55:22

great. She's also very beautiful. I wish she would be

55:27

out there more. For it.

55:29

But she gets a little shy. She's

55:33

never wanted to pursue acting or on camera

55:36

stuff. Well, she really

55:38

hasn't until lately. And we've

55:40

been going to different

55:43

premieres and different projects. And she's

55:46

very inspired by the

55:48

people here. Creative,

55:50

it's fun. We

55:53

leave the premiere. And she'll

55:55

say, oh my gosh, Kristen Wiig was so

55:57

funny in that. Oh, I got you. And

55:59

so we have a really. fun talk about it. So

56:01

it's interesting. I'm interested to see what happens.

56:04

I want to ask one more thing before we move on.

56:07

You and I have a shared OJ story

56:09

that revolves around a

56:11

bar. Yours might be more interesting

56:13

than mine, but I don't know. I

56:15

was in Ireland during the OJ

56:18

when he escaped in the,

56:20

in the, the chase. I

56:22

happened to be working in

56:24

Ireland and I was at the bar. I was

56:26

at the bar. I didn't drink until I was

56:28

an older person. And so I remember I was

56:30

like, cause you could drink at 18. I was

56:32

in the bar and no one

56:35

cared about this American guy,

56:38

OJ Simpson, but we were like,

56:40

Oh my gosh, what's happening? OJ Simpson

56:42

is driving in the Ford Bronco. Anyway,

56:44

that's my OJ bar story. Tell

56:46

us your OJ bar story. Uh,

56:49

okay. So

56:52

I was working at the Intercontinental

56:55

Hotel downtown and that's where

56:57

the OJ journey was. The doors were

56:59

sequestered and I forget what

57:01

floor they were on, but we weren't allowed to go to that floor.

57:04

We weren't allowed to tell anybody

57:06

they were there. Lord knows they needed a drink. Oh they

57:08

did. No, one of them, you know, etched

57:10

help me in their window and you'll get to see it.

57:13

I was like, what is going on on that floor?

57:15

But they were going crazy. I mean,

57:17

that was word at the bar. They

57:19

were like, we had a pianist that

57:21

would go and she would play

57:24

for them, but it had to be,

57:26

you know, on their floor and completely

57:28

private. And she was like, they are going

57:30

nuts. They can't, they're not going to make

57:32

it. So it

57:35

was very interesting. And then I

57:37

mean, I hate to toot my own horn, but I will.

57:40

I was so good at

57:42

working at the hotel as a

57:46

bartender. Sometimes I'd

57:48

fill in as waitress. One time I did room

57:50

service and my

57:52

manager during that

57:55

trial asked me to pack a bag

57:57

and keep it packed by my door.

58:00

because when they got

58:03

news that a verdict was coming in, I

58:06

was to drive straight to the hotel and check in.

58:09

I think it was the first time I stayed in

58:11

a really nice hotel. So

58:15

I get to stay in a room, and

58:18

then later on make drinks for

58:20

people and deliver some chicken to

58:22

somebody's room, which was also a

58:24

very weird experience doing room service.

58:26

I only did it when- That's

58:28

really funny. It was like, hi,

58:30

can I come in? And

58:34

this guy's in a bathrobe, and it was

58:36

just like, what are we doing? That's very

58:38

funny. It's just a little strange dynamic in

58:41

somebody's room. And

58:44

I didn't know how to set up the thing, and I was just

58:46

like, it's my first day. I

58:50

love that. One of

58:52

the reasons that I find your story

58:55

such an interesting trajectory, like

58:58

from Florida and from the

59:01

way you grew up and beauty school and then coming

59:03

to LA, you

59:06

ended up being introduced by Larry David

59:09

to part of one

59:11

of the most famous dynasties in

59:13

this country, and

59:16

you ended up marrying one of the Kennedys, as

59:18

it were. I'm

59:20

wondering, I don't mean

59:23

to romanticize, because of course there's this,

59:26

I think at least for my generation

59:28

and possibly yours, there's a real fantasy

59:31

element to certain aspects of American

59:33

culture. And the Kennedys was one of

59:35

them. I grew up, my parents

59:37

would tell me where they

59:40

were the day they found

59:42

out Bobby Kennedy was shot, and the day they found out,

59:45

and my father stopped voting after JFK was

59:47

shot. Like my father, in my home, it

59:51

was like he was the hope, the

59:54

voice, especially for liberals, and my parents

59:56

were first generation Americans. Anyway,

59:58

I grew up with this myth of the Kennedys. So

1:00:01

I'm just thinking of

1:00:03

your story and like where you came from and

1:00:05

then like to be you know Obviously

1:00:07

to like make it in LA is awesome and

1:00:09

you and I don't want it to be like you're

1:00:12

defined by the person you're dating However,

1:00:14

when you're introduced to a Kennedy

1:00:16

like what was that like?

1:00:18

Like what did it feel like to sort of consider

1:00:21

yourself like as part of that world? Well,

1:00:23

it's interesting because I did not

1:00:25

grow up that way

1:00:27

like my family I

1:00:30

don't remember my parents ever mentioning

1:00:32

the Kennedy We

1:00:37

never talked politics, you know if I asked my

1:00:39

mom who she was voting for she'd say none

1:00:41

of my business So

1:00:44

so it was just like oh we Why

1:00:49

do you think that well, I mean you're also from a part of Florida

1:00:51

that's basically the south Yeah, so it could

1:00:53

have been also that there were progressive tendencies

1:00:55

that were burgeoning young

1:00:57

people Yes,

1:01:00

I'm not sure and I'm

1:01:02

not sure if it's because you

1:01:05

know my mom What

1:01:07

she was very or she is I should

1:01:09

say, you know Yes, other

1:01:11

manners and you know, there are some

1:01:14

things you don't talk about with people

1:01:16

and politics is one of them So

1:01:20

I didn't have an idea of who

1:01:22

the Kennedys were I really the

1:01:25

only thing I had Known about them was

1:01:27

what I learned in school and was like, okay You

1:01:31

know for pretty amazing people

1:01:35

Complicated there's Criminal

1:01:39

issues. Yes, we've got some yeah,

1:01:41

it's a big family. Yeah. Yeah

1:01:45

So then yeah when I met Bobby Bobby

1:01:49

and Larry had been friends for a long time and

1:01:51

I just met Bobby I Want

1:01:54

to say in passing, you know, it wasn't

1:01:56

a moment in time or like I

1:01:58

just thought oh you

1:02:01

know he was really nice he

1:02:04

gave me his beanie

1:02:08

like knit cap because we were we were

1:02:10

actually on a ski lift and

1:02:12

he said you don't have a hat

1:02:15

I said no I was

1:02:18

with Larry we're gonna go to the

1:02:20

fundraiser no intention of skiing

1:02:23

and then we get there and Bobby's like hey

1:02:25

what's I should you wear we got these skis

1:02:28

we went next thing you know Larry and I

1:02:30

have skis on and we're headed to the ski

1:02:32

lift and Bobby said

1:02:34

well what why don't you have anything on your

1:02:36

head I thought I did I didn't even and

1:02:38

he said here take this I said well

1:02:41

intimate to give someone a beanie I said now

1:02:43

you're gonna be cold he goes I'll be fine

1:02:45

I know and I was just like who is

1:02:47

the guy in pleated khaki and so just gave

1:02:49

me a beanie like that's very

1:02:51

nice you know meanwhile Larry's like bundled up

1:02:54

like of course you're not getting my beanie

1:02:57

why wouldn't you bring one if you wanted what

1:02:59

you know he was just it was

1:03:01

just another guy. And

1:03:04

then you know I've been

1:03:06

then I really

1:03:09

Bobby was just an acquaintance for years and

1:03:12

you were both married you both got divorced

1:03:14

yeah he lived in New York I lived

1:03:16

here and and then I

1:03:18

didn't then at some point I saw that he was

1:03:20

going through divorce I was going through divorce

1:03:23

and this fundraiser was happening you

1:03:26

know at the same time every year and I

1:03:28

thought oh it'll be interesting to talk to him

1:03:30

his shirt going

1:03:32

through divorce. Did you have a little feeling? When

1:03:35

I met when I I mean

1:03:38

that's when I feel like I really met him because

1:03:40

I'm a divorced lady and sometimes like you're divorced and

1:03:42

you're kind of like everyone's a potential target for my

1:03:44

love who can I take prisoner next?

1:03:48

Well it was weird was like it was like

1:03:50

a it was like a

1:03:52

lightning strike. Lucky come with me. like

1:04:00

a I don't know there

1:04:02

was an energy that just struck me when

1:04:04

I saw him we connected

1:04:06

it away that was just like oh

1:04:08

I see you I see you and

1:04:11

it was interesting but still I

1:04:13

lived in LA he lived in New York and it

1:04:15

was just it was what it was

1:04:17

for a while just a long

1:04:19

distance interesting

1:04:23

romance yeah and then did he end up

1:04:25

moving out here yes then

1:04:28

he asked me to marry him still

1:04:32

living apart yes I love that that's

1:04:34

so grown-up distance thing is

1:04:36

a problem let's solve it with

1:04:38

marriage well yes

1:04:41

I guess but I said well

1:04:43

I don't you know it would make more sense if we

1:04:46

lived in the same state you're so

1:04:48

conventional and

1:04:51

he has kids he has six kids

1:04:54

six yeah he had two kids

1:04:56

okay his first marriage people

1:04:58

are complicated yeah yeah for with his

1:05:00

second marriage and so what's the age

1:05:03

difference between let's say his youngest and

1:05:05

cat his

1:05:08

youngest is 22 oh okay

1:05:13

yep the same okay I mean

1:05:15

same arena yeah got it okay

1:05:18

so you got married he moved here

1:05:20

you got married yeah okay yeah yeah

1:05:24

and then as time went by you

1:05:29

know he's he's an environmental attorney

1:05:31

I remember early on having a

1:05:33

conversation with him asking

1:05:35

him why he wasn't in politics right

1:05:37

because his whole family yeah he

1:05:40

felt like he could get he could accomplish more

1:05:42

if he wasn't in politics he

1:05:44

could sue polluters

1:05:46

and hold people responsible in a

1:05:48

way that he wouldn't have been able to do and he's done a

1:05:51

lot of tremendous tremendous yeah in

1:05:53

in that capacity Larry said

1:05:55

not to date him well you know

1:05:58

So. Bobby.

1:06:00

Doctor Larry. Which. Is kind

1:06:02

of hilarious. Not. Why would he feel the

1:06:04

need to ask him for his. She's.

1:06:07

Also, traditional. clearly I. Differ

1:06:09

is the. Yeah.

1:06:12

No are hidden then they will

1:06:14

Yes ah there's idea of. Yeah.

1:06:17

I mean Adidas. When I talked

1:06:19

earlier it I said so It

1:06:21

does look like. Lobby.

1:06:24

And I are gonna. Third, Seeds others

1:06:26

like that's a terrible idea is

1:06:28

never going to last. act like

1:06:30

but I somehow you there's not

1:06:32

one. There's. Not one name

1:06:34

that if I had said. That. Person

1:06:36

you know. George Clooney, Larry were

1:06:39

like that's a terrible idea is ever get a lot

1:06:41

you know it matter who it was a would. There's.

1:06:43

Never world with their be like

1:06:45

that sounds great. Cause Larry

1:06:47

Hades lover, Lira's territorial over

1:06:50

you. Are he doesn't

1:06:52

like people here is for nicer.

1:06:54

Together. Anyway,

1:06:56

all of us that I thought. A

1:06:58

drop and probably looking back it's a. His.

1:07:01

Ear, nose and throat is a lovable marrow.

1:07:03

Yeah. We're Bobby and I room in his

1:07:05

or a bed but two different. I mean this

1:07:07

is a shit off for the ages. This is

1:07:09

a match for the ages that Larry Way. Though

1:07:12

I mean that say he's a matchmaker

1:07:14

needs to more of a consumer to

1:07:16

get a place in heaven. So.

1:07:19

You. Know I have. Also we can totally cut

1:07:21

out that like for me I have like a

1:07:23

princess and say about the cataclysm clearly circle. With

1:07:25

like not by much snow that's enough. know know

1:07:27

that used to be that if it is a

1:07:29

lot of noble they have that luxury of Cajun

1:07:31

it like that or yeah I mean I grew

1:07:33

up with that and like this is it illegally

1:07:35

else is ours, his hours and my parents had

1:07:37

any. what it's like a wholesaler as a New

1:07:39

Yorkers as like a thing for the second level

1:07:41

of like not just like. Oh you're like from

1:07:43

where you came from. Like. I'm meeting a Kennedy like

1:07:45

what? Are. you are now

1:07:48

married to someone who's running for president

1:07:50

united states i've never spoken to someone

1:07:52

in my life i've never gotten to

1:07:54

be this close to someone who's isn't

1:07:56

is enough must be complicated mid west

1:07:58

in the that's a huge change in

1:08:01

your relationship, meaning, it's not

1:08:03

just like, oh, you're a public person, you're

1:08:05

an actress, you can handle it. This is

1:08:07

like next level of my- It's next level.

1:08:09

Yes, it was a long conversation. I mean,

1:08:11

it was- Maybe more than one

1:08:13

conversation. It was probably over the course of

1:08:15

four or five months. Wow. Where

1:08:18

it just, I

1:08:21

kept thinking, maybe he'll

1:08:23

change his mind. Right, because you don't want to be the

1:08:25

one to be like, no, don't, I don't want you to.

1:08:28

If he feels that strongly, especially after

1:08:31

all that. Right, so he- You

1:08:33

have to get your head around it. Yeah, it

1:08:36

definitely is his calling. Like he feels

1:08:38

it in a very visceral way.

1:08:43

And that's right. Yeah, so he

1:08:45

feels it, and this is what

1:08:47

he is meant to do. And

1:08:50

so that is really- Yeah, but it's not like,

1:08:52

honey, I'd like to go back to law school.

1:08:54

Can you work a couple extra shifts at the

1:08:56

dry cleaners so I can become a lawyer? This

1:08:58

is like, I'm going to thrust our

1:09:01

life. I mean, it's thrusting your life.

1:09:03

Everything about you is open for the

1:09:05

public, right? And

1:09:09

him, you know? It is, I

1:09:11

would have never in a million

1:09:14

years imagined

1:09:19

that this would be

1:09:21

my life. Just

1:09:24

because I've

1:09:26

never been interested in politics. I'm

1:09:29

not really that person that's excited

1:09:32

to go. Listen to

1:09:34

a lot of people talk about

1:09:37

politics for five hours. That's the

1:09:39

name of the game right now. And

1:09:42

I'm just like, oh my gee, okay.

1:09:44

Very few jokes. Not a

1:09:46

lot of jokes. They're not hilarious people

1:09:48

usually. Sorry, politicians that

1:09:51

are listening that are like, I actually am

1:09:53

funny. But if

1:09:55

you're comparing the groundlings and some

1:09:57

professional community- We're going to work at

1:09:59

Curves. versus going to work on the

1:10:01

campaign trail. Well, that is, that's the thing.

1:10:03

It's like, I am

1:10:05

from a world of comedy

1:10:07

where we're doing bits about

1:10:10

pickles, pickleball, or your glasses

1:10:13

or your hair, and

1:10:15

these bits could go on for two hours. No,

1:10:17

this is like the real world. And now

1:10:19

you're talking about national security. Oh my

1:10:21

gosh. And as actors, we

1:10:23

literally play make believe for a living. We

1:10:26

are paid to pretend and dress up.

1:10:28

And this is like the realest thing

1:10:30

there is, is that your husband is

1:10:33

running from the president. No, it is

1:10:35

very surreal. And

1:10:38

sometimes I feel like, oh,

1:10:40

this is like a scene from a movie because we'll

1:10:43

be dressed up, dressed up, walking

1:10:47

through strange

1:10:49

hallways. Like you're always going down

1:10:52

weird hallways that nobody's ever seen or

1:10:54

heard of. And

1:10:56

security is with us and

1:10:59

it's like you

1:11:01

walk when they say walk because you don't

1:11:03

know what's going on out there. So

1:11:06

it's just

1:11:08

a different world. And you're like, oh, and then somebody

1:11:10

will open a door and I'll be like,

1:11:13

are you ready? And you'll say, yes,

1:11:16

I don't know what the question

1:11:18

really is but yes, open the door. And

1:11:20

then there were 500 people there waiting to

1:11:22

say hello and

1:11:24

to meet Bobby. And it's just like, wow, it's

1:11:28

interesting. It's also

1:11:30

interesting, your role on Caribbean enthusiasm

1:11:32

is, as

1:11:34

you said, kind of supplying the

1:11:37

support for a very high profile

1:11:39

character. And in

1:11:41

some ways, I mean, for any

1:11:43

politician, they're all playing a part. And

1:11:46

you are also in this position of like,

1:11:51

I also think of you as

1:11:53

this like spontaneous, funny person who's

1:11:55

also trained and extremely gifted at

1:11:58

being funny, saying whatever you want. And

1:12:00

you're now in a place where you

1:12:02

have to be so careful. You

1:12:05

have to consider your words. What is that

1:12:07

like? It's really, sometimes it's hard. I mean,

1:12:09

the first big interview I did was with

1:12:11

The New York Times and... Yes, I read

1:12:14

it. And

1:12:16

that was very hard

1:12:18

because I have to try to

1:12:20

think about... Yeah,

1:12:22

I want to say something flip

1:12:25

or, you know... But

1:12:27

I don't because it's not going to... It's

1:12:30

not going to be true. And there's

1:12:32

always going to be someone looking to find fault. That's the position

1:12:34

that you and your husband are in. Right.

1:12:37

Right. So you can't... So

1:12:40

sometimes, even in that interview,

1:12:42

I remember she asked me, had

1:12:44

I talked to any of the previous First

1:12:47

Ladies? Like,

1:12:49

yeah, we're all in a WhatsApp group. Well, that's... And

1:12:53

I wanted to say, oh, I just

1:12:55

got a text from Melania. Yeah, you're

1:12:57

channeling Lady Bird. That's it. Yeah, but

1:12:59

I didn't because no matter

1:13:01

what you say, it's not... Some

1:13:03

people will be mad. It

1:13:05

just... So I have to just like, okay,

1:13:09

just take a beat. It's,

1:13:12

you know... It's

1:13:15

a fine line to still

1:13:17

find the comedy and the fun

1:13:19

in situations. Are there

1:13:21

those moments personally? There

1:13:25

has to be some way that you can

1:13:27

sort of diffuse when it's just

1:13:29

the two of you, right? Like, there has

1:13:31

to be... I want

1:13:33

to believe that there's humor there, meaning

1:13:35

that you can joke and laugh about

1:13:37

all the craziness of the structure of

1:13:39

bureaucracy and politics. Well, yeah,

1:13:41

I mean that... Listen, it is

1:13:43

like, the... meets

1:13:47

modern family because Heinz & Young is... hilariously

1:13:53

a relaxation line that

1:13:56

we had been working on for a few years,

1:13:58

and it just happened to line... right

1:14:00

after Bobby announced. So Bobby,

1:14:03

so me and my sister

1:14:05

Becky and my brother Mike

1:14:07

and we're working on Heinz

1:14:09

and Young, you know, light a candle

1:14:12

at the end of the day,

1:14:14

just relax. And then

1:14:16

Bobby, you know, is about,

1:14:18

you know, you're walking

1:14:20

to the living room and they're talking about

1:14:22

Russia and, you know, or whatever,

1:14:25

or, you know, you look

1:14:27

at your Alexa and you're like, and

1:14:33

you know, it's just like, what is happening?

1:14:35

But, but Bobby and I have a, we have a lot

1:14:38

of fun together. And what

1:14:40

are the things that I don't, it's

1:14:42

hilarious, but also in the

1:14:45

moment, it's not as funny as

1:14:47

you might think, but we'll, a

1:14:49

lot of times we'll be at a big

1:14:51

dinner table and somebody will be a low

1:14:53

talker. And they

1:14:55

are talking about something very serious and

1:14:58

it's just like, you

1:15:00

know, when I was a father, my

1:15:02

father said, one thing that I

1:15:05

never wanted to forget, and Bobby and I were like, wait,

1:15:08

did you say your father? And they're

1:15:10

like, yes. And

1:15:12

on his deathbed he said. And

1:15:14

we're like, and then, you

1:15:16

know, at some point you're just like, uh-huh. Wow.

1:15:20

Okay. Yes. And

1:15:22

then we, we, you know, it's like, did you, did you

1:15:24

get the story? It's like, wow. So

1:15:27

we had, there are those little moments that you, that

1:15:30

are just, you can't even

1:15:32

imagine until you're in them. But you know, it's

1:15:34

a whole night of that. It's not just, that's

1:15:36

not just one moment of the night. That's like

1:15:40

a lot of the night. You're just like, I

1:15:42

can't, will you sit next to the low talker

1:15:44

for just 20 minutes? Cause I need an ear

1:15:47

break. I'm like, I'm dying. You're

1:15:49

leaning. I am. I'm leaning like with my ear,

1:15:51

like to his mouth. I

1:15:57

want to ask another question. Yeah.

1:16:02

And you don't have to say who it is. Have you

1:16:04

ever met like a really, really like important, like

1:16:06

political person and You

1:16:08

don't know who they are. You don't know

1:16:10

who they are. But like, I, I

1:16:13

would imagine again, like, I know how your

1:16:15

brain works. Like there has to be like

1:16:18

absurdity to some of the situations that

1:16:20

you find yourself in. Yeah. Right.

1:16:23

It has to be like the person had

1:16:25

like the assistant whispering in their ear who

1:16:28

the And then sometimes you get

1:16:30

it wrong and you would like. Right.

1:16:32

Well, and also you can't laugh your way out of

1:16:35

things, which for me, that's always the way I get

1:16:37

out of things. But that's what I was asking. Like,

1:16:39

are there any situations where, you know, you're kind of

1:16:41

needing to call on other resources, right?

1:16:43

Because you cannot use humor. Well,

1:16:46

definitely when you're in another

1:16:49

country and you don't speak

1:16:51

the language, you go to

1:16:53

other countries. We did.

1:16:55

You had to go to other countries. No, we've

1:16:57

been around the world. I mean, I, okay. So

1:17:00

this, I don't know. Like, oh yeah, it's

1:17:02

part of his life. Your

1:17:04

his job. Well,

1:17:08

no, we haven't, we

1:17:10

haven't been traveling around the world for

1:17:13

his presidency run. But

1:17:15

you know, I just didn't know if you traveled during

1:17:17

that time. I know that, you know, no, no, but

1:17:19

that's a fair question. But it's

1:17:21

too. It doesn't look like you know what you're

1:17:23

doing. Yeah. But

1:17:25

Bobby has dedicated

1:17:28

his life to clean water and clean water

1:17:30

around the world. Got it. So

1:17:32

with Waterkeeper Alliance. So, you know, we

1:17:35

went to Bhutan. We've

1:17:39

been to India. We've been to, I mean,

1:17:41

you name it, we've probably been there.

1:17:43

And you are then your

1:17:46

presence, you have to be presentable

1:17:48

and you have to interact in

1:17:50

all these situations. Right. So even

1:17:52

in, you know, someplace like Bhutan

1:17:54

where I didn't really, you

1:17:56

don't really know the... I'm

1:17:59

going to Google. culture is

1:18:01

very sweet. I'm looking on a map. I

1:18:03

know that I know where it is roughly.

1:18:06

I just want to see on a map. Yeah. Got

1:18:08

it. Okay. Um, but

1:18:11

Eastern Himalayan edge is

1:18:13

where it is. And we, you

1:18:17

know, sometimes somebody,

1:18:20

you know, as prime minister of a

1:18:22

country, you don't speak

1:18:25

their language will

1:18:28

want to

1:18:31

serve you lunch, which

1:18:33

is very nice, but for

1:18:36

them, if they use their hands, it's an

1:18:38

even bigger honor. So it's

1:18:40

like, thank you very

1:18:43

much. Um,

1:18:45

don't eat meat. So that's always,

1:18:47

you know, some places don't understand

1:18:49

that. No. And it's just something

1:18:51

with a giant bone sticking out.

1:18:53

Thank you. You know, so

1:18:57

it takes a lot to not,

1:19:00

you know, go to do

1:19:03

a comedy bit. Yes. Like not

1:19:05

the place. It's

1:19:08

a tough audience. It's a tough

1:19:11

audience. And I'm not saying that that

1:19:13

was our experience in Bhutan, but in

1:19:15

Bhutan, but this could happen. This could

1:19:17

happen anywhere potentially where your normal go-to

1:19:19

would be like, yeah, one

1:19:21

of my friends, one of my friends said,

1:19:23

and maybe if I write a book, this will be the title, said,

1:19:26

when in doubt, curtsy, because it's

1:19:29

like, that's not bad. We're like,

1:19:31

hello, Kurt. I don't know what

1:19:33

I'm doing here. Um,

1:19:35

nobody in Bhutan, we went to this, um,

1:19:37

coronation. I think it was a coronation. Um, it

1:19:40

was a celebration. Nonetheless, the

1:19:42

king, the king was there. Um,

1:19:45

and, um, and it was an all

1:19:47

day thing. And one of my friends

1:19:49

was there and he, you

1:19:52

know, he said he was getting really hungry and they

1:19:55

were serving rice. And

1:19:58

you just put your, You made

1:20:00

a little cup with your hands. He

1:20:04

was watching everybody else and he's like, all

1:20:06

right, got it. And then you just eat

1:20:08

it out of your hand cup.

1:20:13

Hand cup. But it's moments

1:20:15

like that that are really interesting. It's fascinating

1:20:17

to see other cultures and to meet other

1:20:19

people. But there are funny things that

1:20:22

you can't really. Yeah, be funny about it. Like

1:20:25

practical stuff though, like you're in a country, you're

1:20:28

with the king like

1:20:30

you are. Yes, if you will. And I

1:20:33

assume if you're with the king, you're at

1:20:35

the kingdom palace? Yeah,

1:20:38

like an outdoor. Yes, but there are

1:20:40

definitely yes. Are you staying at

1:20:42

the palace? You're staying at a hotel next to the

1:20:44

palace. There's palace guest quarters.

1:20:49

And this particular- There's the palace. There's the

1:20:51

Bhutan palace. Yeah, we didn't stay at the

1:20:53

palace. It's fascinating that

1:20:55

you're like getting exposed to

1:20:58

things that you would never see otherwise.

1:21:00

So that's like truly fascinating. But like

1:21:02

practically, like for example, I don't eat

1:21:04

gluten and that can be a tough

1:21:07

adjustment. For example, if

1:21:09

you go to Texas, you know? If

1:21:12

I go to somewhere and I don't eat meat,

1:21:14

like and you're hungry, but like what do

1:21:16

you do? You keep a

1:21:19

pack of peanuts in your purse. And

1:21:22

I'm not kidding, you have to. Because

1:21:24

what are the odds that you're gonna be able

1:21:28

to eat, you know, whatever

1:21:30

somebody's serving in the moment, you

1:21:33

just have to be self-reliant.

1:21:35

If nothing else, I learned

1:21:37

about Bhutan today. Is

1:21:40

there a king in Bhutan? The palace was built in

1:21:42

1857. It's one

1:21:44

of the oldest monarchies in the world. And

1:21:47

the Bhutan foundation is hiring a senior

1:21:49

program officer and an accounts officer. So

1:21:51

if anyone is looking for a position

1:21:53

in Bhutan. It's very beautiful.

1:21:55

It looks beautiful. You can't even go,

1:21:57

you can't visit Bhutan without. a

1:22:02

guide. Oh. Yeah, it's

1:22:04

very mountainous. Remote, yeah.

1:22:07

And yeah, and so if

1:22:09

you're just a tourist, you

1:22:11

might have trouble. One of the

1:22:13

questions that I hate that you're asked, which I'm not going to

1:22:15

ask, is like, when would it mean I give

1:22:17

you became the first lady? It's a dumb question, because

1:22:19

we're not there, and you don't have to think about

1:22:21

that right now. But the question that

1:22:24

I have is a little meta. Yeah. I

1:22:26

wonder if like when

1:22:29

you're alone, when you're like in bed,

1:22:31

like if you ever let

1:22:33

yourself go there, just like

1:22:35

even for like a second, like do you let

1:22:37

yourself go there or do you really have to

1:22:39

suspend disbelief? And

1:22:43

when you go there, is it like a scene in V?

1:22:47

Well, it's really weird

1:22:49

because there are parts of

1:22:51

it that I can imagine,

1:22:54

because we already are living

1:22:56

it. You know, I've been

1:22:58

like of privacy, like, yeah,

1:23:00

but even, you know,

1:23:02

dinners where there's protocol and,

1:23:06

you know, you, you have

1:23:08

to know who's at the table

1:23:10

and you have to know what you can

1:23:13

and can't talk about. So we were

1:23:15

already doing that. So I can imagine

1:23:17

that. What I can't imagine

1:23:20

is just like, what

1:23:23

is the day today, like at the end

1:23:25

of the day when you're like, I'm gonna

1:23:28

hit the hay. What

1:23:30

is there? Why

1:23:33

does that look like? Is there, I mean,

1:23:35

of course there's a room, right? Like a

1:23:37

giant room. Is it

1:23:39

a giant room with a bed with, you

1:23:42

know, where you close the curtains of your bed because

1:23:44

the room is so big and people are watching you?

1:23:46

Or is it just like, or

1:23:49

is it, and is it

1:23:51

carpeted? Like how long has carpet been

1:23:53

in there? It's been around for a long

1:23:55

time. What does it smell like? What does

1:23:58

it feel like? have

1:24:00

that as your home is I think kind of the question,

1:24:02

right? Like not just like... Right. You're

1:24:04

not just spending the night for a few nights. Right.

1:24:06

That's your... That seems like that's how it would feel.

1:24:08

That's where you have to live now. It's

1:24:14

hard to imagine telling my friend, yeah, just

1:24:16

stop over. Right. Come up to my room

1:24:18

and we'll watch Netflix. Right. And then

1:24:20

the Secret Service forever. Right. Like

1:24:23

that's a big change. They're already... You've talked a bit

1:24:26

about some of the security stuff. I

1:24:28

mean, there's also so much around

1:24:31

obviously the Kennedy family in general

1:24:33

because of, you know,

1:24:35

two very, very public and,

1:24:37

you know, devastating assassinations in

1:24:40

the Kennedy family. But, you know,

1:24:42

beyond that, you know, for anyone who's, you

1:24:45

know, in the presidency conversation, like there's security

1:24:47

concerns. But, you know,

1:24:49

you had a very scary

1:24:52

experience with an intruder. But

1:24:54

I was also really struck by how you've talked about

1:24:57

it in terms of like there's a

1:24:59

matter of factness about it that you sort of have

1:25:01

to take on. Can you talk

1:25:03

a little bit about that? And I'm assuming

1:25:05

that you've experienced some of that as a

1:25:07

public person yourself, you know, even

1:25:09

separate from this. How is it different? Well,

1:25:16

it's intense. Because

1:25:19

as a public person, a

1:25:21

public eye, I've

1:25:24

never felt... And

1:25:27

maybe it's naive,

1:25:30

but you never

1:25:32

felt like somebody was coming to get you.

1:25:35

If anything, maybe somebody

1:25:39

wanted to talk to you

1:25:41

or get close to you. But

1:25:45

with Bobby, it's intense

1:25:47

because there

1:25:50

are people that want to hurt him. And

1:25:53

we've seen it. So

1:25:57

it is really a strange feeling.

1:26:00

to be watching

1:26:02

the news and

1:26:04

you're watching the news break

1:26:06

that somebody out early

1:26:09

on and you know one of

1:26:11

Bobby's events was arrested because he

1:26:15

and armed and

1:26:18

I'm watching it before I can even talk

1:26:20

to Bobby because Bobby got there and did

1:26:22

the speech. So it's

1:26:24

a strange world. Yeah.

1:26:27

Yeah. And then and then when

1:26:30

I was home and I was seeing

1:26:32

this once again it's these

1:26:34

needs modern family. I'm

1:26:36

home. I'm in my my office

1:26:39

doing Instagram live with my friend

1:26:41

and her

1:26:44

handle is mom loves baking.

1:26:47

My friend from from Tallahassee that

1:26:49

went to high school with we're

1:26:52

just kind and young and she's

1:26:54

going to get a big bump

1:26:56

after this. And I

1:26:58

look outside and I see a guy

1:27:01

I don't recognize coming in the backyard

1:27:04

and I thought

1:27:06

that I was looking out. She said, are you okay? And I said,

1:27:08

well, I and I'm

1:27:13

watching because I'm not sure. This is the

1:27:15

time when I say, yeah, I

1:27:18

gotta go. You know, and you're always afraid

1:27:20

to overreact in that situation. You want to be

1:27:23

that lady. Right. Um,

1:27:25

so I'm watching it and then

1:27:27

I watched security, you know, taken

1:27:29

down and somebody in

1:27:33

his living room is calling 911 and

1:27:36

I'm like, I think it's actually a

1:27:38

under control. I

1:27:41

mean, I guess your definition of under control has to

1:27:43

shift in your life. I

1:27:47

was like, okay, I don't know.

1:27:49

I mean, it

1:27:51

would be easy to be so stressed

1:27:55

every day about all

1:27:57

of it. Yeah. You know, and to

1:27:59

be fearful about of

1:28:02

the unknown like I don't know what's

1:28:04

gonna happen I don't know what any of this is gonna

1:28:06

look like or feel like so

1:28:09

I have to I spend a lot of time breathing

1:28:13

through it letting

1:28:15

it go you

1:28:17

know having staying

1:28:20

close to my family and grounded

1:28:24

that way you know we'll look at

1:28:26

each other and say this is crazy

1:28:30

it's surreal it's surreal yeah I mean

1:28:32

I'm amazed that you can have the

1:28:36

peace of mind in that moment to like

1:28:38

to finish the Instagram live oh we did

1:28:40

yeah it just goes on we

1:28:42

wrapped it up oh it's okay

1:28:45

show goes on that's no business

1:28:47

baby um I'm curious is there

1:28:49

anything in particular that you've adapted

1:28:52

either for

1:28:54

self-care or you know

1:28:56

just for for general wellness is there

1:28:59

anything you've adopted you know in this

1:29:01

new phase of kind of life meaning

1:29:03

have you taken up a new hobby

1:29:05

is there a certain exercise like is

1:29:07

there anything in particular that

1:29:09

you've found is helpful as you you know

1:29:11

kind of enter this very public phase of

1:29:13

life in such a different way than your

1:29:15

previous public life well this is gonna

1:29:18

sound like I'm just promoting Heinz and

1:29:20

Young which you know

1:29:22

is also a promotion for Heinz and Young

1:29:24

but because our we have you know four

1:29:26

different scents and I've I

1:29:28

kind of trained myself with this one sense

1:29:32

called Capri honeymoon because we did go

1:29:34

to Capri on our honeymoon but

1:29:37

I wait till the end of the

1:29:39

day I have it I have a

1:29:41

candle by my bedside and I put

1:29:43

on my pajamas and then I light the

1:29:45

candle and it's it's like

1:29:47

an indicator to me like you need to

1:29:49

whatever you're doing you need to stop and

1:29:53

remember when he wasn't running for breath and you

1:29:55

were just on your honeymoon it seemed like you

1:29:57

were a princess I was like whoo-hoo So

1:30:01

I just have to keep reminding

1:30:03

myself, and I do yoga, yoga

1:30:05

is very helpful too. And

1:30:08

in yoga, you know, you're... What

1:30:11

kind of yoga do you do? Regular.

1:30:13

Like poses and oftenas? Yeah, yeah. Okay,

1:30:16

got it. So, but you know, when you're holding a pose

1:30:19

that's really uncomfortable and you feel like, oh, my leg is

1:30:21

shaking and I don't want to do it. But

1:30:24

you keep breathing and you know it's going to...

1:30:28

Puts are going to come when you're not doing the pose

1:30:30

anymore. So I have... So it's good for me to do

1:30:33

yoga and to just be reminded

1:30:35

that sometimes I'm going to

1:30:37

have to do something really hard. And

1:30:40

I can get through it and there'll

1:30:43

be a moment after that hard thing that

1:30:46

hopefully won't be as hard. What

1:30:49

is the... When you light the candle, what

1:30:53

is the self-talk? I

1:30:55

mean, is it similar? Yes, it

1:30:58

is like... It's

1:31:00

interesting because it's not

1:31:03

only at the little flicker of

1:31:05

the candle because so that's visually

1:31:07

you're seeing it and it's

1:31:09

glowy and it feels good. But

1:31:12

to smell it, it's like, okay,

1:31:15

the talk is everything's

1:31:18

already happened that's going to happen today. So

1:31:21

there's nothing you can do

1:31:23

from this moment till you wake

1:31:25

up that's going to change the

1:31:27

course of your life. All you

1:31:29

can do is relax, take

1:31:31

a minute, you know, breathe

1:31:34

in, which

1:31:37

is hard because sometimes you want to...

1:31:40

And sometimes I do like pick up the phone

1:31:42

and see what

1:31:45

news is breaking in the world. Is there something I need

1:31:47

to know about? But most

1:31:49

of the time, it doesn't matter if I know the news

1:31:51

is breaking or not. Most

1:31:53

of the time. I'm curious, where did you

1:31:56

learn this? Because just

1:31:58

based on what you said, a little bit of... about your

1:32:00

parents. I can't imagine, and many of us

1:32:02

were not, raised with this sort of like breath

1:32:05

and awareness and mindfulness consciousness. When

1:32:08

did you get it? You know, is this something

1:32:10

you learned in therapy? Is it something that you

1:32:12

just picked up? Like, where did you get that

1:32:14

sort of notion? Because it's such a

1:32:16

simple thing to be able to say,

1:32:19

like, I don't have to keep working on

1:32:21

this. Right. Like, I get to sleep, I

1:32:23

get to rest. Like, I've been thinking about,

1:32:25

I was recently having some difficulty

1:32:27

sleeping and the notion that like, I deserve

1:32:30

a break. My brain needs to shut down.

1:32:32

Like, I deserve a rest. Where did

1:32:34

it come from for you? Well,

1:32:37

I think, I think it started

1:32:41

in acting classes. Because

1:32:44

I remember there was one that he

1:32:47

really focused on relaxation, which

1:32:49

I was excited about. But

1:32:52

I understood later

1:32:55

when I would start going in to

1:32:57

audition, you know, you

1:32:59

feel your adrenaline, you

1:33:01

feel your blood pressure go up right

1:33:04

before you walk in to audition. And that's,

1:33:07

nobody wants to see a nervous actor.

1:33:09

And there's just, you're not going to

1:33:11

hire a nervous actor to build a

1:33:13

career on the channel. You're going

1:33:15

out, you're just like crying pretty much. Like, if

1:33:17

you cast me, I'll be fine on the day.

1:33:20

But you know me, as a producer, you can't,

1:33:23

it's hard to cast a nervous actor in an

1:33:25

audition because it is very

1:33:27

stressful, but on set is even

1:33:29

more stressful. So

1:33:32

I paid

1:33:34

attention at that time,

1:33:36

like, how do you keep calm

1:33:38

in a very stressful situation?

1:33:41

And then, and

1:33:44

then I've recently really

1:33:47

been revisiting it. Well,

1:33:50

there's a lot of overlap between

1:33:55

not only like improv and acting,

1:33:59

the mindfulness, You you present

1:34:01

and you know, this is the first time I've

1:34:03

ever had the pleasure of sitting down with you

1:34:05

But you present as extremely Grounded

1:34:07

extremely focused extremely calm and that you know

1:34:09

I'm not saying that you don't have a

1:34:11

motor running a thousand miles an hour in

1:34:13

the background But the way that you come

1:34:16

across is isn't that she could be the first

1:34:18

lady She has to seem like she's composed with the key. I

1:34:20

had to keep it together I'm

1:34:22

gonna lose it as soon as I walk I Mean

1:34:25

people are allowed to let off that steam but

1:34:27

to be able to you know have that presence

1:34:29

So I always find it interesting between the

1:34:32

skills of improv and how do they translate

1:34:34

to the rest of life? Yeah,

1:34:38

well, I did learn a lot with

1:34:40

improv because The

1:34:43

thing that you learn That

1:34:46

I mean that the things that I had learned Previously

1:34:49

to the groundlings as an actor was Know

1:34:53

the script Word by

1:34:55

word know everything about the script so

1:34:57

that when you start doing improv And

1:35:00

there was no script and they say you just have to

1:35:02

trust yourself like a boy. I don't

1:35:04

think so I mean, this doesn't make sense

1:35:06

to me and then you learn

1:35:10

That there's no wrong answer Whatever

1:35:12

you're gonna say next is the right thing. It might

1:35:15

not be funny it It

1:35:18

might not even add to the scene But

1:35:21

nobody's gonna get up and walk out because

1:35:23

you just said the kitchens closed You

1:35:26

know, they might not laugh and your scene

1:35:28

partner may maybe like okay. Well, I

1:35:31

thought we were at the baseball game, but okay You

1:35:34

know, but and then you justify and

1:35:36

you your scene partner justifies and and

1:35:38

so thing

1:35:40

that I learned was just you not and I

1:35:44

can't do this all the time of course,

1:35:46

but to not second-guess yourself and to not

1:35:48

judge yourself For saying whatever you're

1:35:50

about to say to trust yourself that you're

1:35:52

not gonna say I trust myself. I'm

1:35:54

not gonna say something terrible

1:35:57

to somebody that would like

1:35:59

nothing, right Right. So,

1:36:02

you're like, what? I'm going to come out of my

1:36:04

mouth and then. Well,

1:36:06

there's trust and you have to control

1:36:08

the anxiety or you can't get anything.

1:36:11

Yeah. So, let's be mindful,

1:36:13

let's be present, let's show up.

1:36:15

Yeah. And then so you

1:36:17

control that. And then when I think about like

1:36:19

bringing it back to the shutting your brain down

1:36:22

at night, you're like, well, I

1:36:24

have to have trust that the day

1:36:26

is over that because, you know, when I

1:36:28

hear and I have the same experience that my, you

1:36:30

know, like when you can't sleep and I can't sleep,

1:36:32

put it in the first person, what I'm

1:36:35

trying to do is like figure something out mentally that I

1:36:37

can't. So I pick up the phone to see

1:36:39

if there's news or but there's nothing there

1:36:41

that is going to solve the thing that I'm focused

1:36:43

on. So like, how do I then come back

1:36:46

to trust? And I actually think there's a lot

1:36:48

of improv that is related

1:36:50

to that. Like there's an overlap between

1:36:52

mindfulness, presence, trust and improv. And what

1:36:54

we learn in any

1:36:57

type of healing practice or mindfulness practice. I

1:36:59

think you're right. And it is, it's about trusting,

1:37:02

right? Trusting the universe and,

1:37:06

you know, it's going to be

1:37:09

okay if you are

1:37:11

in bed for two hours awake, but

1:37:14

not doing anything. Like,

1:37:16

it's okay. Nobody's

1:37:18

judging you. And because there's also that feeling

1:37:20

that I feel sometimes like, if I'm awake,

1:37:22

I should be doing, I should

1:37:24

be doing something productive. That's the narrative about the

1:37:26

thing that you felt in the first place that just spirals

1:37:29

us. Yeah. Because

1:37:31

you brought up the word universe and I like talking about the

1:37:33

universe. Yeah. Do you feel like

1:37:35

there is some sort of like plan

1:37:37

that you or some sort of divine

1:37:40

intervention that you are on this path

1:37:42

that are experiencing, you know, these very,

1:37:44

what I'll call just abnormal because they're

1:37:46

only a handful of people that get

1:37:48

to have exceptional experiences? Yeah.

1:37:52

I do feel like it's

1:37:57

interesting because there's part of you that's interested in

1:37:59

this. that's one

1:38:02

that feels like you you

1:38:04

are Controlling

1:38:07

you're you're navigating

1:38:09

the boat a little bit about

1:38:13

You're not you're not in control of

1:38:15

the waves or the ocean or so Yeah,

1:38:19

so there's that that when I start

1:38:22

thinking back about my life, it's it

1:38:27

It feels like I am glad that I

1:38:29

was paying attention to signals

1:38:32

from the universe at the time even

1:38:34

working at the hotel and You

1:38:37

know, yeah, and then the groundlings

1:38:39

and then everything

1:38:42

in Curb your enthusiasm. I

1:38:44

didn't get mad TV. I didn't even get to audition

1:38:46

for SNL and then I'm on curb and then I

1:38:48

meet Bobby and then the next thing you

1:38:50

know He's running for

1:38:52

president. It's like and you're eating rice out of your

1:38:54

hand right

1:38:57

side of your end and it's it's but

1:39:01

I you know, I feel like

1:39:03

I Try

1:39:06

to be receptive to What's

1:39:11

coming at me and what's presented to

1:39:13

me in life, I don't

1:39:15

want to sound too, you know But

1:39:19

you might mean do you feel the same

1:39:21

way I'm adding get married at the Kennedy

1:39:23

compound She

1:39:29

wants to know if there are extra cousins Well,

1:39:36

I Mean also

1:39:38

like, you know, John F. Kennedy is the

1:39:40

first Catholic president like in my family were

1:39:43

Jewish It was like there was

1:39:45

some weird camaraderie. I think a lot of immigrants

1:39:47

felt like with like He

1:39:50

did it different like we're different So like, you

1:39:52

know, it's a very kind of different world

1:39:54

that we're talking about But I think that

1:39:56

you know, it's something that we talk about

1:39:59

a lot like and And what we're talking

1:40:01

about, the Christian word is providence. Is

1:40:03

there providence here? Are you able to say

1:40:05

the hand of God,

1:40:08

whatever that looks like, was always guiding

1:40:10

my path? And with

1:40:12

that, though, you have to take the

1:40:15

bad with the good, meaning every

1:40:17

trial and every

1:40:20

challenge is also included in that path.

1:40:25

But yeah, I mean, if I,

1:40:27

I mean, if I, no,

1:40:30

I wouldn't have drawn, if I were

1:40:32

you, I wouldn't have drawn that line from

1:40:34

beauty school at 17, you know, to

1:40:37

being a famous actor. Right. Even

1:40:39

that alone is not. And you know, like, respected

1:40:41

in your, you know, in your profession and known

1:40:44

to, you know, millions

1:40:46

of people, like, for your talent as

1:40:48

an actor, like, that alone, I

1:40:50

mean, you have your very nine lives about this. So,

1:40:52

you know, you've had a lot of incredible

1:40:54

iterations. It's really, um, and

1:40:57

if we go metaphysical, cause to answer

1:40:59

your question, you know, obviously totally different,

1:41:01

um, arenas.

1:41:04

But I do think that for me, when

1:41:07

I look at like small moments, for example,

1:41:09

I met mine when our kids were three

1:41:11

years old at a shared birthday party that

1:41:13

they were friends at, we were both married

1:41:15

to other people. That was 12

1:41:17

and a half, maybe

1:41:20

13 years ago. I

1:41:24

moved from out away from

1:41:26

LA back to Toronto. Then I moved

1:41:28

to Oregon and

1:41:31

this number of things that happened and

1:41:34

the way that then we got to these

1:41:36

chairs, totally random,

1:41:38

you know, like there was no, no way

1:41:40

that that would have happened. And

1:41:42

the number of things that would have happened had

1:41:44

to happen in order for that to unfold, to

1:41:46

even have this conversation, to hear

1:41:48

about someone's life who is even more peculiar. But

1:41:51

like in some of my circles, they're

1:41:53

like, you're sitting down and having this

1:41:55

conversation from some kid, you know, I'm

1:41:57

from Toronto and my friends are. Most

1:42:00

of them, a lot of them still there

1:42:02

doing whatever it is that they're doing. Many

1:42:04

of them having really cool experiences, but I

1:42:07

never saw that for myself. This is your booth on? This

1:42:10

is your booth on. It's your booth on. You can eat

1:42:12

rice out of it. I am full of

1:42:14

rice. And then the other things

1:42:16

that have aligned beside that to

1:42:19

start a company and to explore

1:42:21

that and to be sitting with

1:42:23

sometimes people who have started very

1:42:27

large, influential organizations. You're like, there's a surreal

1:42:29

nature that I could never have imagined. And

1:42:31

I do wonder, I'm like, is

1:42:34

it Providence? Is it totally random? But

1:42:37

what I always connect back to is that

1:42:40

growing up, I was like looking around and

1:42:43

I never looked around and was like, oh, this

1:42:45

is for me. You

1:42:47

always want to get out. I always

1:42:50

thought that was something else. That's how I

1:42:52

felt in Florida. Although my whole family lives

1:42:54

in Florida and I appreciate Florida. I appreciate

1:42:56

the people there. But when I

1:42:58

was growing up, I just felt like, hmm,

1:43:01

this is this. I

1:43:05

don't think that's where I'm supposed to be. And

1:43:08

that's the intuition when I heard you talk about Florida

1:43:10

and you're like, oh, I know I need to go

1:43:12

to Los Angeles. I didn't know where I needed to

1:43:14

go, but I knew that I needed to leave in

1:43:17

a way like Corona

1:43:19

is an amazing city. Like I think it's one of the best

1:43:21

cities in the world. And I,

1:43:24

all my friends, not all of them, but majority

1:43:26

of my friends would, they went to a college

1:43:28

called Western, which is in London, Ontario, which is

1:43:30

two hours away. And I was like, I knew

1:43:33

so much that I was not going there. I

1:43:36

again, didn't know where else I was going to go. And a lot

1:43:38

of my life is like, I'm not sure where to go, but then

1:43:40

I ended up there. And

1:43:43

then that's where you ended up going to school. I did not go. No,

1:43:45

I ended up going to Vermont and

1:43:48

then out to the West coast to

1:43:50

Victoria Island, British Columbia. And

1:43:52

then from there down to Los Angeles, I did the

1:43:54

American Film Institute's conservatory program. I never

1:43:56

would have thought to do that from

1:43:59

there. But like. Again following the sign

1:44:01

of like oh, right this

1:44:03

doesn't feel like something right I need to

1:44:05

do or where I need to be which

1:44:07

is powerful to to know what you Don't

1:44:10

want and to be able to move

1:44:12

away from it. That's hard. It's not always easy because

1:44:15

a lot a lot of times it's

1:44:19

You know is taking risks that's the other thing

1:44:21

I For

1:44:24

the most part I'm

1:44:27

okay taking risks, you know, I don't

1:44:29

because I have faith that I'll

1:44:32

make decisions in the moment that Are

1:44:34

gonna be okay. I Will

1:44:37

figure it out when the time comes but

1:44:39

I know people that are Paralyzed

1:44:41