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limited time. Who. Stars Day.

2:00

Yeah, it does feel that way. So,

2:02

you know, we've really dug deep to try

2:05

to piece together all the information. There was

2:07

some News Nation

2:09

coverage on this case about

2:12

six months ago, but really there hasn't been all

2:14

that much awareness

2:17

spread out there since then. No,

2:19

I don't, yeah, I'm not sure any other

2:21

news agencies networks that have covered it

2:23

at all. News Nations really become

2:26

the leader in missing persons

2:28

coverage or true crime coverage. And

2:30

they'll talk about cases that aren't, you know,

2:33

as highly publicized. Like they

2:35

seem to really do a good job

2:37

of seeking out cases that aren't getting

2:39

enough coverage and trying to help with

2:41

those. So shout out to News Nation,

2:43

I'm a big fan. Yeah, this one

2:45

is super bizarre guys. A

2:47

lot of twists and turns and

2:49

just strange things leading up to

2:51

her disappearing that could potentially give

2:53

us clues, but nothing that solidifies,

2:55

you know, any certain

2:58

theory in our minds. Which there's a

3:00

lot of theories to this one. And

3:03

obviously when talking about rural

3:06

Arizona, you know, we

3:08

always have to mention this idea

3:10

of these groups, communes, cults, whatever

3:12

you want to call them that

3:15

we know exist out in the

3:17

middle of nowhere throughout Arizona. And

3:19

is it possible she disappeared and

3:22

joined one of those groups? Again,

3:25

we'll get into the evidence for and against that,

3:27

but it's just really strange

3:29

to think about how

3:31

many people who have

3:33

gone missing who may have left

3:35

on their own accord and perhaps

3:37

the family or others feel, you

3:39

know, something nefarious may have happened

3:41

to them. Which again, definitely still

3:43

a possibility. Yeah, of course. But

3:46

I think it's just when

3:48

you start digging into how

3:50

many of these cults and groups exist in

3:52

the United States and you start

3:54

uncovering just the

3:56

sheer magnitude of, it's crazy because

3:58

there's so many. We'll talk about a

4:01

specific one in this episode as well that

4:03

you've probably never heard of. I know we

4:05

certainly didn't know about this one,

4:07

but. But it's something you definitely got to factor in,

4:09

especially when you consider how many groups there are. And

4:12

it's just, you know, statistically,

4:15

a lot of the people that have gone missing in this

4:17

country have got to be still out

4:19

there in these groups. Right, right. And oftentimes

4:21

these groups make you leave everything behind all

4:23

your belongings. You can't tell anybody. Disconnection from

4:25

your family. Yeah, I mean, look at the

4:27

love is one colt right here in Colorado.

4:30

We've been to the area where they were

4:32

based. Right, we're in Crestonia. So it's

4:34

definitely a possibility that I

4:37

think it's overlooked. It's more

4:39

prominent than people realize. But yeah, of course

4:41

it's definitely not the only possibility. We're gonna

4:43

look at a couple options here and go

4:45

through all of the facts. And with this

4:47

case, we are dealing with a lot of

4:49

time gaps and strange police interactions. And

4:51

there's very little hard evidence once she

4:54

actually went missing. A lot of what

4:56

we're gonna be speaking on is the

4:58

events in her life leading up to

5:00

her going missing and possible sightings and

5:02

things like that. But

5:05

for clarity's sake, we're gonna front

5:07

load the episode with all the

5:09

confirmed facts and evidence and then

5:11

kind of work our way back

5:13

through the different theories, potential sightings

5:15

and strange characters that wandered through

5:17

the desert in Arizona. But

5:19

let's start with a background on Chelsea. Chelsea

5:21

Grimm was born to Janet and Steven Grimm

5:23

in Connecticut on March 22nd, 1991. She

5:27

had at least one sister and was

5:30

described as an East Coast girl by

5:32

her friends and family. While Chelsea was

5:34

always super friendly and had a super

5:36

flourishing social life. She

5:38

also did struggle with depression and

5:41

actually really made that struggle known to her friends

5:43

and family. She was always very

5:45

open about her issues and her parents said

5:47

that she would often change her plans or

5:49

make split second decisions based

5:52

on her emotional state. In 2008,

5:54

her parents sent her to a

5:56

wilderness camp near Mesa, Arizona,

5:58

which would be her first. time in

6:00

the state. And while we can't

6:02

actually confirm which camp this was

6:04

given our episode on the treble

6:07

teen industry, obviously we

6:09

just covered that. If you missed it,

6:11

we'll link it below. We looked into

6:13

the Anasazi Foundation, which is likely the

6:15

camp that Chelsea attended. Like we said,

6:17

we're not exactly sure, but from sort

6:20

of what we gathered, it seems like that's a good possibility,

6:22

which that camp is a

6:24

nonprofit, which is a good sign. But

6:27

on the other hand, there have been several

6:29

stories of abuse within the camp

6:31

since the 1980s and Ruby

6:33

Frankie, sure many of you are familiar with

6:35

her. That psycho. Crazy

6:38

case. Nut job. The eight passengers, mother, they

6:40

had a family vlog channel. I'm sure most

6:42

of you have heard of it, but yeah,

6:45

they were big on YouTube. And for years

6:47

people were pointing out something is wrong

6:49

here. These people need to be reported as CPS and

6:53

massive amounts of abuse were going on.

6:55

And that I think the trial just

6:57

wrapped up, right? I believe so,

6:59

but don't quote me on that. Yeah, I kind of

7:01

had to tune out of it because it got

7:04

really, really dark and upsetting. Yeah. But

7:07

the reason we bring that up

7:09

is she actually had sent her

7:11

oldest son, Chad to Anasazi. And

7:13

we can't confirm Chelsea's individual experience

7:15

with it, or if it was

7:17

even the camp she attended. Like

7:20

we said, however, we do know

7:22

that these programs can really exacerbate

7:24

behavioral and mental issues in young people.

7:26

And we know that through this program, Chelsea

7:29

familiarized herself with Northern Arizona

7:31

or became accustomed to outdoor

7:34

living, whether she was in that program

7:36

or something else. She went to some

7:38

camp out in Northern Arizona. After that,

7:40

she finished high school at a wilderness

7:43

boarding school in Montana. Again,

7:45

only a little is known about her

7:47

time there. One of her lifelong friends

7:50

from the school said that, quote, we

7:52

went through a lot of things there,

7:54

though she didn't really explain much past

7:56

that. But again, it certainly hardened her

7:58

wilderness experience. experience, but her

8:00

friends didn't describe her as the outdoorsy

8:03

type necessarily. She knew what to do

8:05

in those scenarios, but was really a

8:07

city girl at heart. But it was

8:09

also in Montana that Chelsea began her

8:11

passion for photography. This was

8:14

a huge passion of hers. She loved

8:16

nature shots, sunsets, and photos of locals,

8:18

which is really interesting. She would call

8:21

these people that she would photograph the

8:23

forgotten people of America, and

8:25

it would really become like the central theme

8:27

of her photography. She studied social work at

8:30

NYU and received her master's in 2019. She

8:33

always wanted to help others who dealt with

8:35

the same issues that she did and saw

8:37

social work as a way to give back

8:39

to others. She worked as a 12th grade

8:41

social worker and therapist through the NYC Department

8:44

of Education and got in her first serious

8:46

relationship around that time as well. She

8:48

met her first long-term boyfriend near the beginning of

8:50

her first year of college, and the two of

8:52

them stayed together until around 2020.

8:55

So as we know, 2020, a

8:58

year that we'll never forget, right? Never.

9:01

Unfortunately, this is when the pandemic

9:03

hit, and Chelsea's work really seemed

9:06

to cease altogether, at least

9:08

was very limited once all the high

9:11

schools transitioned to remote learning. And

9:13

it was at this point that she got involved with

9:15

a musician producer, and the two

9:17

of them moved to Ocean Beach in San

9:20

Diego, California. And in Ocean Beach, Chelsea focused

9:22

on her photography and picked up social work

9:24

with teenagers in the area. She

9:26

lived in a Queen house near the beach,

9:29

and life seemed pretty good. But still, she

9:31

had those underlying mental health issues, and once

9:33

she broke up with the music producer, and

9:36

he moved back to New York, she

9:38

really didn't have many friends. In 2022,

9:40

she became romantically involved with Philip Brenner,

9:43

more commonly known as PJ. He

9:45

was a country musician with a

9:47

pet bearded dragon named Roxy. He

9:50

did street performances around Venice Beach

9:52

and declared himself a famous musician.

9:54

In reality, he was perpetually unemployed

9:57

and soon leached off of Chelsea. doing.

18:00

I'm okay. How are lasts

18:02

about 7.5 minutes. are

18:05

you doing all right? year

18:08

old Chelsea grim just reportedly

18:11

disappearing. shoot

18:13

of the lost solutie emotional

18:16

crying before I body

18:19

cam footage from se by

18:22

Williams police who re of

18:25

suspicious activity at Oh,

18:28

I'm sorry. No, no, yo I was

18:30

just doing a photo officer

18:33

asks her if she h at

18:35

and she says she didn' actually

18:38

thinking of jus night, but I wasn't really

18:41

gotcha. We didn't plan to So

18:44

that clip came from a it's

18:48

cut down quite a bit version

18:51

of it, which the in

18:54

it that you know, aren to

18:57

watch, I guess. But it podcast

19:00

if you're curious mark

19:03

on it, which I'm not mark because it's

19:06

not own domain.

19:08

So we're gonna wat from

19:10

what is this podcast series

19:15

on the lost and th in

19:18

this country. Yeah, I long

19:21

ago did you smoke ma and

19:23

hours ago? Okay, righ Cool.

19:26

Well, just hang tight I'll be right back. Okay. of

19:29

a bother. She said she a

19:32

couple hours ago. I don' signs

19:34

of impairment, but I look

19:37

for it all that well mean

19:39

she's not doing anyt photo shoots

19:41

of the solider she's

19:44

getting pretty emo just decided to

19:46

just to li and

19:49

because she's crying. is a

19:52

supervisor. Yeah, ba drive,

19:54

especially because state and

19:57

say, but if you Just

22:00

hang out here however long you want and you're

22:02

good to go. And then take

22:04

care of registration obviously because it's a... Yeah, I

22:06

could do that online. Yeah. Perfect.

22:11

If like a county stops you, they're not going to be as

22:13

nice as me. They're dicks. Okay.

22:16

You got it. Have a great rest of

22:18

your day. She

22:20

had such a cool energy about her too. So

22:24

just to go over that footage if it was kind

22:26

of hard to hear or if you're listening and didn't

22:28

actually see it. First

22:30

of all, you probably heard the bearded

22:32

dragon being named as

22:34

Razi. I guess the

22:37

bearded dragon had two names, Razi. As all

22:39

of our pets do, right? Yes. Went

22:41

by multiple names. The officer had

22:43

asked her if she had smoked marijuana and she

22:46

said she did earlier in the day and he

22:48

warned her that her registration was expired but told

22:50

her to renew it ASAP. He asked if she had

22:53

a hotel and she said she planned to go

22:55

camping. And he informs her that camping

22:57

within the city limits was illegal but

23:00

she'd be safe to sleep at the

23:02

love's truck stop nearby. And then he

23:04

kind of tells her about how cool

23:07

this photography would look in the morning during

23:09

the sunrise. So she says,

23:11

okay, yeah, that sounds like a good idea and

23:13

that she's probably going to go sleep at the

23:16

truck stop. So then on September 30th,

23:18

Chelsea was seen camping out by her

23:20

car on a rural dirt

23:22

road near Ash Fork. And she posted

23:24

this strange photo. Now if you're listening,

23:27

it's weird because she's barefoot. She's holding

23:29

a bouquet of flowers. It looks

23:31

like she just picked wildflowers in the

23:33

area. And then she has her car off

23:36

in the distance. It's sort

23:38

of focused on the flowers, but it's sort

23:41

of blurred out. It's just kind of a strange

23:43

photo. Yeah, but the car in the background has

23:45

three of the doors open, both the drivers and

23:47

passenger and then the backseat door on the left

23:49

side as well. What's strange

23:51

too is this area, you know, she's

23:54

barefoot and it's known to have like

23:57

stinging weeds. So it's not really a place that you would

23:59

want to walk. was

26:00

said in that conversation. It's

26:03

actually unclear if police even got his

26:05

statement. Came back out, was right at

26:07

dark. Just starting to rain and

26:09

she was still parked there. So we asked her if she had

26:11

any trouble. She said, no, we're

26:13

fine. She says, I'm just taking pictures and you

26:15

just missed a beautiful sunset. So

26:18

she was at her vehicle at noon. You go in and cut

26:20

wood, you're coming back and she's still at her vehicle. Which

26:23

is strange too, because he was an officer. So you'd think

26:26

they would do that. But I mean, they may have, and

26:28

we just Yeah, or

26:30

they just thought it was just an innocent

26:32

conversation. There's nothing to report necessarily, right? Yeah,

26:34

but it's like, obviously with a missing person,

26:37

you know, Yeah, the police should go, should

26:39

go. And they may have, we're

26:41

not sure if they did or not. It's just

26:43

not public if they did. But they pulled out

26:45

and left Chelsea there. And she seemed okay. They

26:47

said she didn't seem to be in

26:50

a super emotional state or in a manic state or anything

26:52

like that. He described her as a little eccentric,

26:55

but pretty normal. And they did not notice

26:57

her bearded dragon, but also keep in mind

26:59

it was raining and they were just talking

27:01

through their cars. Couldn't

27:04

see into the vehicle. So I'm guessing Roxy

27:06

was somewhere in the back. But George did

27:08

not notice that the vehicle seemed to have

27:11

any issues or flat tires. He said it

27:13

looked normal and that she was just taking

27:15

shelter inside from the rain. What's strange is

27:17

that this road led to the main highway

27:20

while other roads nearby were extremely rough and

27:22

required high off the ground four wheel

27:24

vehicles to remain safe. Yeah,

27:27

it looks like a bunch of dirt

27:29

roads, either county roads or private roads.

27:31

Perhaps we're not, not exactly sure. But

27:33

on October 4th, after Chelsea had not

27:35

spoken to them for days, her parents

27:37

reported her missing. They knew

27:39

that she'd be without cell service for some time

27:42

and maybe she even blocked them. But

27:44

they felt that this was plenty of time for

27:46

her to return home to San Diego and give

27:48

them a call back. What they didn't know was

27:50

that Chelsea had thrown out her on

27:52

October 5th, hunters in Kaibab national force

27:55

just north of where Chelsea was seen

27:57

camping by George Robertson reported

27:59

that her before to escape appear to be

28:01

abandoned. The area had been heavily

28:03

trafficked as hunting season had just started and the

28:05

hunters had noticed the car the day before with

28:08

two flat tires on the right side. They didn't call

28:10

on anyone at that point because they felt like, you

28:12

know, I don't want to rush to judgment here, let's

28:14

give the owner some time to find help and, you

28:16

know, get their car out of there. But

28:19

they did feel it was strange to leave

28:21

it there for a full day with many

28:23

of that owner's belongings still inside. So police

28:25

officers responded to the abandoned car around 6.05

28:27

a.m. on October 6th. And

28:30

this road that the car was on was

28:32

rougher than the one she'd been camping on

28:34

when George Robertson spoke to her. This road

28:36

is lined by jagged lava rocks, but it

28:38

was still relatively close to the main highway

28:40

and it's not impossible that her

28:42

vehicle could not have made it onto the

28:44

pavement even with two flat tires before being

28:47

abandoned. And again, there were numerous

28:49

hunters in the area and no one

28:51

had seen who the car had belonged

28:53

to. Officers did observe that Chelsea had

28:55

taken Roxy, her bearded dragon with her,

28:57

her wallet, driver's license, and a sleeping

28:59

bag and then locked the vehicle. But

29:02

inside of the car was still her

29:04

tent and camera, which everybody

29:06

that knows Chelsea kind of thought that was weird. They'd

29:08

be like, why would she leave with all these other

29:10

things and not bring her camera with her? I mean,

29:13

that's literally what she was on

29:15

the strip for was to take photographs.

29:17

And also, if she's planning to leave

29:19

the vehicle, walk somewhere to camp, you

29:21

know, she brought her sleeping bag with

29:23

her, why wouldn't she bring her tent

29:25

as well? So definitely a little odd.

29:27

An extensive search of a three mile

29:29

radius surrounding Chelsea's car took place and

29:31

Chelsea's family hired private investigator, Kelly Townsend,

29:34

to help them look for Chelsea. Dozens

29:36

of Chelsea's closest friends and family, including

29:38

PJ, traveled to Arizona to aid in

29:40

the search. Now, PJ really fucked this

29:43

whole thing up. Not only did he

29:45

withhold information about Chelsea's mental state and

29:47

the relationship before the trip, but he

29:50

refused to be interviewed by the cops

29:52

or Kelly Townsend, but still wanted

29:54

to lead the search and rescue mission. Not

29:56

only that, he posted on social media for

29:58

clout and even tried to... the

34:00

debit card and worried about him following

34:02

her and tracking her. It seemed that

34:04

way. But regardless, even

34:06

though he wasn't involved in her disappearance,

34:08

he's definitely not innocent in all of

34:10

this in any way. He

34:12

held back information from the police. He

34:15

centered himself in the investigation and created

34:17

that go that fake go fund me

34:19

to exploit her disappearance. Elias

34:22

claimed that even though PJ lied in the

34:24

description that he meant it, but $30,000 is

34:28

quite a lot of money to ask for for

34:30

a private search and rescue mission. Clearly there were

34:32

other motives there. At the

34:34

end of the day, he was responsible

34:36

for abusing and manipulating Chelsea, which likely

34:39

I mean, I think it's safe to

34:41

assume it did affect her

34:43

mental health while in Arizona. And

34:45

he may not have done the crime, but he

34:48

is definitely culpable. I feel comfortable

34:50

saying that. But let's talk about the tires.

34:52

The two tires on the right side of

34:54

her car were popped when police discovered her

34:57

abandoned Ford escape. They explicitly ruled

34:59

out foul play because the tires did

35:01

not appear to be slashed and the

35:03

vehicle was locked. But theorists

35:05

online have claimed that the tires were

35:08

slashed and that police don't want to

35:10

reveal that information. But honestly, that's pretty

35:12

doubtful given everything else they

35:14

have told the public they've been pretty open

35:16

for the most part. That's kind of a

35:18

weird thing to want to hide. Always a

35:20

chance, but you know, in our opinions, probably

35:23

pretty unlikely. So there is a

35:26

one in 10 million chance of two

35:28

tires getting popped simultaneously. So

35:31

it's extremely unlikely, but it's not

35:33

impossible. The Ford Escape is a

35:35

four wheel drive vehicle, but not

35:37

built for sustained off-roading. No,

35:39

and I was going to say I have I actually have

35:41

a lot of experience and knowledge

35:43

around four wheel drive vehicles as I

35:45

drive one myself and done a

35:47

lot of research on tires. And one of the things

35:50

with the stock vehicles is the tires

35:52

are, you know, there's different

35:54

plies for tire. So the thickness of the rubber

35:56

of the tires and tires that come

35:59

stock from the factory. are usually very,

36:01

very thin. And although it's an

36:03

all wheel drive vehicle, you get

36:05

out on some of those county roads or forest

36:08

roads and it'd be very, very

36:10

easy to pop your

36:12

tires out there. And if it

36:14

was two tires on the right side, perhaps she

36:16

was on the edge, driving along

36:18

the edge where those lava rocks are, you

36:21

could definitely pop both tires on sharp

36:23

rock like that. So I don't think

36:25

it's all that unlikely that she just popped it

36:27

just pulling over the side of the road or

36:29

something. And that slashing the

36:31

tires, I don't, I don't

36:34

know. I don't really see a lot of evidence for

36:36

that. Especially since she hadn't

36:38

changed them since purchasing the car as far

36:40

as we know. So those are stock tires

36:42

and it'd be very easy to pop those

36:44

on those kinds of roads, no problem. Yeah,

36:46

and she did drive a lot. She put

36:48

8,000 miles on the car in the year

36:50

before her disappearance, which is eight times as

36:52

much as she did the year before. And

36:55

this is probably because she became PJ Chaperone

36:57

for that year. Besides the

36:59

jagged lava rocks, like you mentioned, she

37:01

would have driven over the train tracks

37:03

before reaching the car's final destination. And

37:07

again, it's like we said, it's

37:09

improbable, but not impossible. It seems like you

37:11

really lean towards it being a, a

37:14

real possibility. What? Of

37:16

them both being popped. Yeah, I think so.

37:18

I mean, You would know better than

37:21

me, I don't know. Yeah, I think it's very likely

37:23

based on the terrain and

37:25

the actual roads there and the vehicle. Cause

37:28

yeah, it's very easy to pop. That's why,

37:31

you know, you go off-roading on any of these

37:33

serious trails and you're bringing a spare, even getting

37:36

like eight ply tires,

37:38

real thick, off-road, big tread,

37:42

you still bring a spare because- But to pop one

37:44

of them. People pop two

37:46

as well. Sometimes people carry two, especially

37:48

out in places like this. You're

37:51

in a sudden experience. Carry two spares just in

37:53

case because if you think about it, if she's

37:55

driving along the side and one, cause like how

37:57

did one get popped, right? It

37:59

was probably because- dot

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site for details. So

40:22

this is kind of interesting. There is

40:25

an unconfirmed tip. So we're not totally

40:27

sure in this from residents who lived

40:29

off of a rougher road nearby that

40:31

said Chelsea had crashed into their gully

40:33

around 11 or 10 p.m. and that

40:35

she seemed fine and asked for directions

40:38

back to the main road and

40:40

cops couldn't confirm this because the car

40:42

was in working order besides the tires

40:44

and it didn't seem like the car

40:46

had been through a wreck. So some

40:48

people online still really stick by the

40:50

theory that her tires must have been

40:52

slashed by opportunistic kidnappers who

40:55

acted while Chelsea was camping.

40:57

And it is important to note that human trafficking

41:00

is an issue in that area as it is

41:02

in most of the country these days. So

41:05

it's not impossible to assume that something

41:07

awful could have happened there. But

41:09

you got to think about the fact

41:11

that, you know, why would these kidnappers

41:13

take her sleeping bag, her phone, her

41:15

driver's license and her bearded

41:18

dragon? It's a little strange. I mean,

41:20

maybe the bearded dragon could have run away,

41:22

but he was supposed to or she was

41:24

supposed to be going into hibernation soon and

41:26

wouldn't really have the energy to get far away from the

41:28

car. So it seems like someone would have

41:31

taken her. We're not exactly. It's yeah.

41:33

I mean, more so than the bearded

41:35

dragon. I think the sleeping bag sticks

41:37

out because I could see why they

41:39

would take the phone and driver's

41:41

license so that there's

41:43

no trace of that. Yeah,

41:45

that's true. Potentially, there's always

41:47

the possibility that they want to stage the

41:50

scene. That's true. To make it look like she

41:53

left on her own accord, but she was actually

41:55

abducted. Yeah. Because these groups are very smart in

41:57

the way that they do these things. So it's

41:59

possible. that that was their plan.

42:01

I don't know

42:03

how much other evidence really is for this

42:06

theory of like kidnappers were

42:08

following her. She walked

42:10

away from her vehicle. They slashed her tire so

42:12

she couldn't leave when she comes back to the

42:14

vehicle. They kidnap her from there. And

42:16

again, this is like pretty

42:18

remote area. So still

42:21

near a highway. So

42:23

I guess there's, I mean, shit, there's this

42:26

kind of stuff going on all the time.

42:28

Yeah, so it's possible. Human smuggling happens all

42:30

up and down this highway. So yeah,

42:33

it's definitely a possibility. I hope that's not the case, but

42:35

yeah, definitely a possibility. And yeah, just a heads

42:37

up to all of you animals, animal lovers out

42:39

there. We're not sure what happened to Roxy to

42:42

this day. We have no idea

42:44

where she went or what could have

42:47

happened to her, which is really sad.

42:49

You can assume that she went with Chelsea,

42:51

wherever Chelsea went. Which it is possible

42:53

that Chelsea did go somewhere and took Roxy

42:56

with her. So yeah, we don't know that anything

42:58

bad happened or she ran away for sure. Well,

43:00

the car was locked when

43:02

they found it abandoned. So how did Roxy

43:04

just leave the vehicle? Yeah, that's a good

43:06

point. It's super weird. So Roxy would have

43:08

been dead in the vehicle had she not

43:11

taken it or whoever she left with hadn't

43:13

taken the bearded dragon with her because he's

43:15

not there or she's not there. So

43:17

it seems like she went wherever she went. Yeah,

43:21

that's probably what happened, yeah. But

43:23

people also point to Chelsea's emotional

43:26

state that maybe the car breaking down

43:28

tipped her over the edge. I mean,

43:30

it sucks to get a flat tire, especially

43:32

out where she's at. She doesn't have a

43:34

phone. So, you know, that could

43:36

send anybody over the edge.

43:38

Perhaps she left everything in a mental break

43:41

and plan to just go off the grid.

43:43

According to SF Investigates, a PI that helped

43:45

on the case, despondents who don't wanna be

43:48

found often find a scenic location and hide

43:50

away from those looking for them. However, in

43:52

Chelsea's case, she sought out scenic locations to

43:54

photograph them, yet she left

43:57

her camera behind. The camera

43:59

thing's very odd to me. Yeah, it is

44:01

again the land surrounding the road is very rocky

44:03

and uneven It was pitch black the night before

44:05

Chelsea's car was first spotted and she would have

44:07

likely tripped and hurt herself If

44:09

she just like up and left on

44:11

foot SF investigates model 3 million square

44:13

feet surrounding Chelsea's car and still couldn't

44:15

find any sign of her No clothes.

44:17

No footprints. No other tire

44:20

tracks. Nothing at all which

44:22

to me if this was like

44:26

a Abduction right there

44:28

likely could have been some sort of struggle. I feel

44:31

like there had been maybe a few

44:33

more signs of Something

44:35

happening at her vehicle as

44:37

well How did these people get in there to

44:40

slash the tires without leaving a trace on the

44:42

ground or anything like that as well? So it's

44:44

just something to keep in mind in the early

44:46

days of the investigation Chelsea's friends pleaded for the

44:48

authorities to investigate as if it were a criminal

44:51

case One friend even said that the

44:53

only reason cops ruled out foul play was that because

44:55

a car was locked but again There's no

44:57

hard evidence to suggest that human trafficking or

44:59

kidnapping played a role in her disappearance at

45:01

all The police maintained that

45:04

the rough roads popped the tires and

45:06

improbable as it may seem was entirely

45:08

accidental Some friends have said that the

45:10

cops just don't want to cause a panic by saying the tires

45:12

were slashed But since they've been so open about

45:14

all the other information they have in this case it'd

45:17

be very strange for them to

45:19

withhold a major thing like the

45:21

tires were clearly slashed because if

45:23

you look at pictures of Tires, I

45:26

mean obviously you could like stab a knife into it maybe

45:28

it just looked like a puncture hole, but I

45:30

feel like you can tell the difference between a Knife

45:34

going into a tire or some type of sharp

45:37

tool versus like a rock or something so

45:39

if the police are saying that it was

45:41

because of the rocky road that

45:43

these tires were popped I Am

45:46

gonna have to go with that and I think it's

45:48

very you know I don't see any reason why they

45:50

would lie about that. It seems very weird to Or

45:54

to withhold that kind of information. So let's

45:56

talk about is it possible that Chelsea had

45:58

a mental break or So

50:00

maybe that's why her phone records and bank

50:03

statements have been cold since her disappearance. And

50:06

if she lived in one of these communities,

50:08

she would likely have no need for electronic

50:10

communication as these cults do provide food for

50:13

the members, but they, like

50:15

I said, limit most outside social

50:17

interactions. So this brings

50:19

us to potential sightings of Chelsea

50:21

since her disappearance. And

50:23

they haven't been mentioned yet because they are unverified.

50:26

So, you know, take them with somewhat of a

50:28

grain of salt here. But while Chelsea was

50:30

sleeping at that truck stop, it's called Loves. Some

50:32

employees mentioned that they saw her with a middle

50:35

Eastern man with a beard and a mustache. She

50:38

was at Loves for at least two days

50:40

and was observed speaking with and spending time

50:42

with this unnamed man on both days.

50:45

And nobody there knew who he was and

50:48

none of Chelsea's friends knew anyone

50:50

who fit that description. Now, unfortunately, the

50:52

Loves truck stop did not have cameras

50:54

facing the parking lot, and they

50:56

also couldn't find footage of her within the store. So we don't know. That's

51:00

crazy. Loves doesn't have cameras on the exterior.

51:02

What the hell? I know that's

51:04

frustrating. That's insane. You

51:07

think for such a

51:09

largest album like that with so many people

51:11

coming through, you would think lots

51:14

of crimes that occur at truck stops that

51:16

there would be cameras on the parking lot.

51:19

Also during the police investigation, some

51:21

employees had mistaken her for another

51:23

woman who was staying there who

51:25

had a cardboard sign with the

51:27

word Seattle written on it. Regardless,

51:30

though, it's unclear if we can take

51:32

their testimony as fact. Yeah, I

51:34

would say this is probably

51:36

pretty unreliable because if they're confusing

51:38

with this other woman, who knows if

51:40

they even saw her at all. Then on

51:43

the 2nd of October, during the period

51:45

between when Chelsea spoke to the woodcutters

51:47

and when her car was found, she

51:49

was potentially seen in a gray Camry

51:52

near Prescott or Prescott Airport. Prescott.

51:55

No, it's Prescott. Is it Prescott? Yeah.

51:58

Wow. I didn't know that. I learned that from Hiram. covers

58:00

these doomsday UFO

58:02

cults that occur all over the

58:05

place. It's wild. Yeah,

58:07

it is pretty strange. But

58:09

because so many similar cults litter the desert

58:11

near where Chelsea went missing and many with

58:13

almost no online presence, because that's the thing

58:15

with Prince and his whole cult is it's

58:17

pretty public. They've got a radio show. He

58:19

goes on podcasts. I don't know. If

58:22

she was a part of that, would

58:24

we have more information on that? Would the authorities have more

58:26

information on that? I don't know. We

58:29

don't know if this individual who people

58:34

called in tips on is

58:36

actually Prince or not, maybe

58:38

a similar figure. As we said earlier, Chelsea's

58:40

Ford Escape was auctioned for around $10,000. Her

58:44

belongings, tent, camera, and journals dating back at least

58:46

12 years were all discarded. Her

58:48

family hasn't made any official statements since the

58:50

initial search, but has told those close to

58:52

them that they didn't have the capacity to

58:54

pick up her things. Their PI, Kelly Townsend,

58:56

is still working the case as far as

58:58

we know. The Cocosino Police Department said they

59:00

are searching for Chelsea, but her missing posters

59:02

have been largely taken down across the area.

59:04

Those close to the case speculate that they

59:06

have moved from search and rescue to search

59:08

and recovery and think that

59:10

Chelsea is probably deceased at this point.

59:13

The case has primarily gone cold with

59:15

no new official leads in nearly six

59:17

months. There haven't been any more potential

59:19

sightings since December, though this

59:22

could just be because awareness is so low at this

59:24

point because the case is going cold, which

59:26

is why recovering it, I mean, to kind

59:29

of bring it back to people's minds

59:31

again because she is still out

59:33

there, possibly, and possibly

59:36

still alive. Is it

59:38

possible she doesn't want to be found? I

59:40

think so. Yeah, I mean,

59:43

it's so hard when it

59:46

sounds like her family and those

59:48

closest to the case were actually on the

59:50

ground doing the search and rescue and now

59:53

recovery. It's hard when

59:55

they think that she is probably dead.

59:57

I like feel bad speculating that she could.

1:00:00

still be alive. I don't know exactly how

1:00:02

her family feels about that or if there's

1:00:04

more information, because that's kind of a big

1:00:06

jump. It hasn't been that long. It

1:00:09

seems like pretty quick to assume that

1:00:11

when there isn't really evidence for it.

1:00:15

Like in my mind, I think it's more likely

1:00:17

that she's probably out there and possibly could have

1:00:19

gotten with one of these groups just because there

1:00:21

are so many of them. And just like her

1:00:24

mental state leading up to this thing, she wanted

1:00:26

to get off the grid, ditching the SIM card,

1:00:28

not wanting, it seemed like she

1:00:30

was really disconnecting from a lot

1:00:32

of people in her life. I mean, her

1:00:34

family, she was kind of pushing back and

1:00:36

then wanted to completely get away from this

1:00:38

PJ nut. Well, yeah, and I think that

1:00:41

would be a great motivation to want

1:00:43

to disappear is to get

1:00:45

away from PJ. And like these types of

1:00:47

groups prey on people like

1:00:49

that who are in a tough spot

1:00:51

in their life, feeling disconnected from their

1:00:54

loved ones. So I don't

1:00:56

know, to me. Yeah, I mean, if there's

1:00:58

somebody out there offering you refuge

1:01:00

from all these troubles in your

1:01:02

life and also offering- And spiritual

1:01:04

understanding. Yeah, awakening and we can

1:01:06

help you get to a better

1:01:08

place and we'll bring you

1:01:10

into a whole group of other people who

1:01:12

are all in the same boat that you

1:01:15

are. She seemed like such a deep person

1:01:17

who would be interested in exploring, not a

1:01:19

cult necessarily, but just like the meaning of

1:01:21

life and spirituality and just like

1:01:23

she seemed to be a deep soul so,

1:01:27

or seems to be, I mean, she

1:01:29

very well could be alive in my

1:01:31

opinion. And I hope that's the case

1:01:33

as terrible as a lot of these cults

1:01:35

are, most of them. I mean, it's better

1:01:38

than the alternative if she is still out

1:01:40

there and could possibly still be recovered and

1:01:42

rejoin life with her family. If

1:01:45

she wants to. Yeah, if she wants to, yeah. I

1:01:47

mean, she might be happy. Because I mean, she's in

1:01:49

her 30s now and she- Of course you have every

1:01:51

right to just disappear from your

1:01:53

life and start over. And

1:01:55

people do it all the time. Makes a

1:01:57

lot of sense that these groups would be. looking

1:02:01

for potential new recruits at places

1:02:03

like truck stops or rest stops

1:02:05

because maybe

1:02:07

they don't want to be public and on

1:02:10

the internet and soliciting

1:02:12

members that way in

1:02:14

such a public setting and so what

1:02:17

better way to look for potential new

1:02:19

members or recruits for your group than

1:02:21

to go to a loves truck stop

1:02:23

and just like keep an eye

1:02:25

out for anybody that looks like they're nomadic

1:02:28

or living out of their vehicle or seem

1:02:30

to be distressed or you

1:02:32

know asking questions I mean that

1:02:35

makes a lot of sense to me so in my mind

1:02:38

the way that I see this kind

1:02:40

of playing out just from looking and

1:02:42

hearing everything is I don't

1:02:44

think this was the original plan when

1:02:46

she set out necessarily I don't either

1:02:48

I think a series of events happened

1:02:51

and especially in those three days yeah

1:02:53

and her one possibility is she

1:02:56

did go to that truck stop

1:02:58

and she camped there she

1:03:00

met somebody you know maybe they

1:03:02

came back with her to her

1:03:04

vehicle and then she left with

1:03:06

them that's the hard thing is like

1:03:08

we don't know the series of

1:03:10

events from that

1:03:13

traffic stop by that police officer to

1:03:15

you know when her cars finally

1:03:19

found by police like we don't know exactly

1:03:21

how the events played out and at what

1:03:23

point she actually left her vehicle or left

1:03:25

loves truck stop or if she even went

1:03:27

to the truck stop at all yeah

1:03:30

we don't we don't know for sure yeah

1:03:32

so that's the tough thing because I'm like

1:03:34

she did go to Arizona a lot she

1:03:36

did meet people in these wilderness camps could

1:03:39

she have met somebody who had

1:03:41

a connection to a group like this or

1:03:43

maybe she somehow contacted when she got to

1:03:45

the truck stop she called them and then

1:03:47

they came and got her I mean it's

1:03:49

really hard to say or what you

1:03:51

know or was it just totally

1:03:53

random she just ran into somebody who is recruiting

1:03:56

at the truck stop and was like hey you

1:03:58

want to come check out this