0:00

Hey there, it's Hunter and welcome to Throwback

0:02

Thursday. Most Thursdays we are going

0:04

to re-release one of my favorite episodes from

0:06

the archives. So unless you're a long time

0:09

listener of the show, there's a good chance

0:11

you haven't heard this one yet. And even

0:13

if you had, chances are that you are

0:15

going to get something new listening to it

0:18

this time around. Healing for yourself, healing for

0:20

your view of your former spouse, and

0:22

healing for your entire family. And beyond

0:25

healing, what's possible is

0:27

creating your dream life. You're

0:31

listening to the Mindful Mama podcast episode number

0:33

230. Today

0:35

we're talking about mindful divorce

0:38

with Radhika Lakhani. Welcome

0:43

to the Mindful Parenting podcast. Here

0:45

it's about becoming a less irritable,

0:47

more joyful parent. At Mindful

0:50

Parenting, we know that you cannot give what

0:52

you do not have, and when you've calm

0:54

and peace within, then you can give it

0:56

to your children. I'm your

0:58

host, Hunter Clark Fields. I help smart,

1:00

thoughtful parents stay calm so they can

1:02

have strong, connected relationships with their children.

1:05

I've been practicing mindfulness for over 25 years. I'm

1:08

the creator of the Mindful Parenting course,

1:10

and I'm the author of the international

1:12

bestseller, Raising Good Humans. And now

1:15

Raising Good Humans Every Day. 50

1:18

simple ways to press pause, stay present, and

1:20

connect with your kids. Welcome

1:23

back to the podcast, my friend. I am

1:25

so glad you are here today, and a

1:28

brand new welcome to you if you are new.

1:31

I'm so glad you're here. In

1:33

just a moment, I am going to be

1:35

sitting down with Radhika Lakhani.

1:37

She's a family lawyer and a

1:39

mother whose mission it is to

1:41

transform families post-separation

1:44

and divorce by sharing powerful tools

1:46

that can consciously move them from

1:48

high conflict to peace and

1:50

heart-centered parenting. And

1:53

this is an important conversation because whether

1:56

you are happily

1:58

married, whether you... are

2:00

single, whether you're going through a

2:02

divorce, we talk about tools

2:05

that actually apply to many, many, many

2:07

of us and to, in fact, all

2:09

parents. But the truth is that

2:11

50 to 40 to 50 percent of couples

2:13

are going to get divorced. So we want

2:15

to be able to do it better. We've

2:17

never talked about this before on the podcast.

2:19

I'm so happy to do it today. And

2:22

you know, loss of relationship can be a

2:24

pretty big trauma. So we want to do

2:26

this consciously for our kids because we're going

2:28

to be co-parenting with this

2:30

ex for a while. So

2:32

how can we do we have a

2:34

better path forward? We're going to talk about how

2:38

the legal process pushes us to find

2:40

external solutions, which are actually kind of

2:42

disempowering. How alternative dispute

2:44

resolution focuses on each party's

2:46

needs and mindful resolution goes

2:48

further to ask why. And

2:51

listen for the takeaway that we must

2:54

start the way we want to finish.

2:56

And I think that's a really important piece

2:59

in this. All right.

3:01

Now, without further ado, let's dive into

3:03

this conversation with Radhika

3:05

Lakhani. Another day is here, and

3:07

you're ready for it. What to wear? Check.

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like the power to do? Mobile banking requires

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select devices. Message and data rates may apply.

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Bank Bank of America and a member FDIC. Rad,

3:38

thanks for coming on the Mindful Mama podcast.

3:41

My pleasure. I'm

3:44

so glad you're here. And this is the first time

3:46

we're ever going to talk about divorce

3:49

on the Mindful Mama podcast. And I'm

3:51

so excited to talk to you about

3:53

it with you because you're

3:56

taking this thing which

3:58

is painful. and

4:00

difficult and scary for parents

4:03

or even especially for individuals

4:05

who may be in a relationship

4:07

that they don't like and want to

4:10

take those steps but are scared. They don't

4:12

want to hurt their children. There's a

4:14

lot that goes on with this issue and to

4:16

approach it more consciously the way

4:18

you're doing is I think

4:22

is very powerful. So I'd love

4:24

for you to just start us off by

4:26

telling us a little bit about what are

4:28

the problems that you're

4:31

seeing with couples

4:33

separating. Right.

4:35

Okay. So I mean the biggest

4:39

challenge that people have

4:41

is that the legal process

4:43

is very limited, right? And

4:46

so for me as a lawyer, which kind

4:48

of segued into how I got into wanting

4:50

to do this formally and to teach

4:53

consciousness for parents formally

4:56

was because they would always

4:58

look to external power to

5:00

empower themselves through this challenging process. Right.

5:02

So it's like, well, he's the

5:04

asshole. Sorry, I should have put a lot

5:07

to say here. He's the, you know, the

5:09

guy, the problem. She's the problem. Of course,

5:11

I have male and female clients, mamas and

5:13

papas. And it

5:15

was always looking at this external

5:18

solution for their,

5:21

their problems. Right. So it's like,

5:23

well, let's get the judge to tell him how

5:25

this is not okay. Or let's get the lawyer to write

5:27

on that. And so what

5:29

ends up happening is that I feel

5:32

like people lose themselves through

5:34

this process. And of course, divorce and

5:36

separation is such a challenging that

5:41

to take and to go through. And

5:43

like you said, you have the

5:46

counter thoughts about what's going to

5:48

happen to my child. I'm not gonna lose my child.

5:50

There's all this fear and

5:52

anxiety that comes present, which prevents people

5:54

from thinking clearly. Right. So there's a

5:56

lot of aspects of this process that

5:59

becomes very disempowered. empowering for people and Because

6:03

a legal system is so limited, you

6:05

know, and I'm a lawyer so I'd

6:07

like to you know Bring

6:09

a good favor towards a legal system, but it

6:12

is limited right? We can only write so many

6:14

letters You can only bring so

6:16

much resolution if parties are not

6:19

empowered seeing clearly Operating

6:21

from a place of love as opposed to

6:23

a place of fear Yes,

6:25

so I think when if we're talking about it

6:27

from a mindfulness perspective, I see that that is

6:29

one of the greatest challenge Yeah,

6:32

yeah, so I mean the way you described

6:34

that is really clear I mean the

6:37

as we know we've talked to us so

6:39

many times in this podcast fear and anxiety

6:41

That's our stress response or stress response is

6:43

keeping us from the higher order thinking. It's

6:45

cute It's literally bypassing the upper parts of

6:48

the brain. And so we are Reactive

6:51

and that is disempowering and then this

6:53

is this is not something you Have

6:56

gone through personally, but this is something

6:59

that you have dealt with as the

7:01

lawyer for other people going That's

7:04

right. And um, you know, it's funny

7:06

because I look back at my life and you can always

7:08

connect the dots backwards and

7:11

the Amazing thing is when I

7:13

think about why did I end up in family law? Readable

7:16

areas have a business background. You think I'd

7:18

be like a commercial litigator or something? I

7:21

I've personally experienced major separation from my

7:23

family I was 16 when my parents

7:25

decided to move to Kenya because a

7:28

fun little experience for me at growing up in

7:30

Toronto And when

7:32

I was 31, we lost our first

7:34

child at delivery So

7:38

in my own way going

7:40

through separation from family having

7:42

family upheaval lost, right?

7:46

and so What always

7:48

worked for me was the you know,

7:50

the spiritual or the mindfulness Practices that

7:52

I had to create my new

7:54

life and so when clients would come to me With

7:57

their own challenges with their own fog with their

7:59

own disempowerment And while I always

8:01

gave them the legal advice that they came to

8:03

my office for, I felt like I didn't

8:05

serve them fully if I didn't also

8:08

give them these other tools. And

8:10

I would do it for free and I would

8:12

do it after our appointment and never felt comfortable

8:14

charging for it, right? Because I thought, well, that's

8:17

not as important, but I realized over

8:19

the last 15 years that that's actually

8:21

the best part of what I was

8:24

providing, right? Is to give

8:26

people clarity back, to give them a

8:28

vision for their future and to remind

8:30

them that this too shall pass and

8:33

that they are conscious creators and that

8:36

they have so much more power than

8:38

they ever thought. But part

8:41

of being empowered, the other side

8:43

of the coin is taking responsibility,

8:45

right? For where we're at.

8:47

And sometimes that's a hard pill for people

8:49

to swallow because like you

8:51

said, that fear response is often causes

8:54

us to look

8:56

outside of our environment, right? And

8:58

in the original way

9:01

that we were created biologically, fear

9:03

and danger look like a saber tooth tiger. But

9:06

now when we're in this fear, response and then

9:08

divorce, it's the other person, right?

9:11

It's money. It's

9:13

all these external elements. So

9:16

I think my personal themes

9:18

also really infuse this

9:20

whole way of lawyering for myself,

9:23

which yeah, again, it

9:25

always felt so much more rewarding in

9:27

my clients. It would

9:29

land so much better with them. You could see their

9:32

eyes light up when they realize that

9:36

there are other things they could do other

9:38

than engage a lawyer, which of course ends

9:40

up becoming a very expensive process if

9:43

you can't take responsibility, don't have power,

9:45

don't have clarity, because now

9:47

you are giving instructions to your lawyer

9:50

through a very muddied lens. own

10:00

family of peoples and whatnot, you learn the

10:02

tools of mindfulness

10:04

to your thinking, perhaps

10:07

meditation. I'd love to learn more. But

10:09

basically that this clear

10:12

seeing is to help us become empowered. And

10:14

I really like what you're saying about the

10:16

other side of empowered is taking

10:19

responsibility. And kind of what you're

10:21

pointing to in a lot of ways is that it's pretty

10:23

interesting to me is that what you said in the beginning

10:25

is that we look to the external solution to solve

10:28

our problems. And I think that's the way

10:30

I always think, you know, what is in

10:32

the micro is in the macro, right? Like

10:34

we are saying that all the time. Yeah.

10:37

Like we're in a society that,

10:39

you know, generally we're many, most

10:42

people are raised in authoritarian families.

10:45

You're taught to just do what

10:47

the authority says, you know, respect

10:49

authority blindly. And you

10:51

have external validation, you have reward or punishment

10:53

for your achievement. You learn to

10:55

go for external validation, like grades or

10:58

rewards and punishment and things

11:00

like that. So that

11:02

it almost sounds like that, that

11:05

we're then we're taking that in

11:07

our suffering, in our, you know,

11:09

in this habit to our divorce, and

11:12

then looking to this external kind

11:14

of this authority for validation of what the

11:16

suffering we've been having. And kind of what

11:18

you're saying is that this you're,

11:21

you're saying people, as we can

11:24

empower ourselves

11:26

with clear thinking, we can then look at

11:29

ourselves and say, okay, also how, how

11:32

am I, how am I engaging? How

11:34

am I contributing to this, the problems as

11:36

well? That's exactly exactly.

11:40

The reality is being in the human conflict

11:42

world for almost 20 years now, there is

11:44

no conflict without two parties. Right.

11:48

And in the beginning of my career, I really go

11:50

out on the bandwagon of my individual clients because I

11:52

love people. And so I would connect with them at

11:54

the heart level and I want advocate

11:56

for them. And then what would

11:58

happen was really funny. I'd go into the meeting and I

12:00

would see the other parent. I really

12:03

like them too. And

12:06

they would tell a story that was

12:08

quite compelling, right? And I thought, oh my

12:10

God, so who's right here? And

12:14

what I realized very quickly is that we're never going

12:16

to solve these problems if we try to figure out

12:18

who's right because the reality is, is

12:20

that everyone's right. Everyone is

12:23

doing the best they can from the

12:25

ones that they have and experiences the

12:27

conditioning, negative, positive, from their childhoods,

12:30

their experiences. And

12:33

so the path forward is to,

12:36

again, go within and empower

12:38

yourself and possibly consider

12:40

from that new higher vantage

12:43

point that the

12:45

other person is doing the best they

12:48

can, which is a really hard

12:50

thing for people to see on day one,

12:52

right? It's a big ask. It's a big

12:54

ask. It's a big ask. And I think

12:56

we can't ask parents to do that until

12:58

we acknowledge their wounds, right? Until

13:00

a person has had an opportunity

13:02

to be acknowledged and recognized and

13:05

seen and heard, which

13:07

I try to do first with my clients. And

13:10

then gently we start to

13:12

just introduce tools that

13:15

would allow somebody on their own

13:17

experientially to expand and clear their

13:19

lens, right? And so this

13:21

is what I share with people is that your perspective

13:23

is really everything. And the

13:25

reality about trauma is that when you're in

13:28

trauma, which loss of a marriage in many

13:30

ways is a major trauma, right? Like some

13:32

people studies equate divorce with

13:34

look like a death. It's

13:36

the death of a dream. It's the death of the vision you

13:38

had for your family. It's the death of a family, photos

13:40

and albums and memories and

13:42

plans. And so

13:44

how can you make major

13:47

decisions about your everything?

13:51

You know, in a separation, we deal with everything, your

13:54

pension, your house, your income, your dog,

13:56

your kids, your everything. So

14:00

how do we make those big decisions? How

14:02

do we get clients to make these life-altering

14:04

plans when they're in trauma?

14:11

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16:50

So what I try to do is try

16:52

to empower people during the process and

16:55

then even after the process, because sometimes

16:58

we make our way through the process

17:00

and then what we realize is that my clients don't

17:02

stop calling me. You know, whether it's one day where

17:05

I had a client who

17:07

booked herself into my calendar because I have

17:09

a booking system and I said to my

17:11

staff, Marina, my right hand, you

17:14

know, Christine's coming in next week. Do you know why? Because

17:16

the agreement got signed, high fives. Like we were so

17:18

happy for her that we were finally able

17:20

to achieve some common ground with

17:23

her former spouse. And

17:25

they would still come in because they still couldn't

17:27

deal with their ex. You

17:30

know, I have clients who have said to me, when I have

17:32

to call him, I get anxiety attacks. When

17:36

he says to me how crappy of a

17:38

mother I am, I get triggered. Right.

17:42

And now, so now, you know, at 300

17:44

and whatever an hour, to be

17:46

calling me just seems so ineffective. Right.

17:49

And the reality of law is that there's

17:51

no shortage of business and family satisfaction comes

17:53

from seeing people launch. So I think

17:57

as professionals and as people going

17:59

through. through this process, if they could

18:02

find some tools, like the stuff

18:04

that you talk about on your podcast,

18:07

the mindfulness, because that's really where it

18:09

all starts, right? You can't change your

18:11

thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions, vision, without

18:14

mindfulness practice to know knowing

18:17

what your current thoughts are. Exactly. So

18:20

I think it's helpful as a

18:22

practitioner to be able to

18:24

give that tool to others. And

18:26

it's also a really great tool for me

18:28

to have, right? Because if I hadn't resolved

18:31

my triggers, how can

18:33

I help someone else? So I actually

18:35

also work with lawyers on the consciousness

18:37

tools. So yeah, it's my jam.

18:40

They're so universal, these tools. I

18:43

mean, it's so interesting, as we

18:45

take these perspectives into specific situations.

18:47

And it's really interesting to see

18:49

that in so many ways, like

18:52

the needs are so similar, right?

18:54

Like in my mindful parenting course

18:56

I teach, the mindfulness to

18:58

lower reactivity, a self understanding, and then how

19:00

to communicate, right? But that's exactly what you're

19:03

talking about. And then that's exactly what I

19:05

was just talking to a client about what

19:07

they need. And as the nurse

19:09

anesthetist of the world, she wants to help teach

19:12

them like how to do those things, like that's

19:14

so interesting. But I wanna go back to

19:18

something you said, which is that

19:21

we're never going

19:23

to be able to solve

19:25

these problems if we try to decide

19:27

who is right. And it's really interesting, right? And

19:29

because that's also the same as what I teach,

19:31

right? It's like that we have

19:33

a habit energy, we have a habit

19:36

and a culture to blame,

19:40

find out who is right, to place blame,

19:42

and to apply punishment

19:44

to that person, right? And

19:48

so on

19:50

the other side of that, in my world

19:52

is like we start to look at what

19:55

are the needs, what needs aren't being met.

19:57

And is that how you start to approach?

20:01

going into a divorce more mindfully

20:03

with both parties? So

20:06

say that one more time. Should we, what is

20:08

the last piece? So rather

20:11

than placing blame, looking at

20:14

everyone's needs, right? Yeah, absolutely.

20:17

Is that how you approach the more mindful

20:20

divorce? Like what would the picture of a

20:22

more mindful divorce look like? Great

20:24

question, great question. The reality

20:26

is that the fundamentals of dispute resolution

20:28

is always to find what are the

20:30

needs. So exactly what you asked, right?

20:33

Ultra-frontative dispute resolution, which is like mediation,

20:35

negotiation, collaborative law, for those who've heard

20:37

of that, which is a well-known process.

20:40

So if you haven't, look it up.

20:42

It's all over in North America, in

20:44

the world. All

20:46

of that is designed to say, okay, fine, we

20:48

have the law, we have a legal system, and

20:50

we have rights, right? But

20:52

forget the rights for just a moment. What

20:55

do you each need? What do

20:57

the children need, right? And

21:00

I think, so that's your standard, good legal

21:04

alternative dispute resolution process. I

21:07

think the mindfulness spin on that, I

21:09

would say, is to go one step

21:11

further to ask why,

21:13

right? What

21:15

are the true driving forces

21:18

here? Because again, as you

21:20

know, as a mindfulness coach and guide and mentor,

21:24

there is the ego-driven agenda, which

21:27

is fear and lack and scarcity and

21:29

all those things, right, which are valid.

21:32

And then there's the love and the

21:34

truth and the integrity and

21:38

the wholeness of the family, right? And

21:41

you'd be amazed at how many clients in line, when

21:44

I say to them, you

21:46

realize he's

21:48

gonna be in your life, remember.

21:52

Again, I'm talking about their ex, and I'll say

21:54

him, because we're Mindful Mama podcast here, okay? But

21:56

of course it always goes both ways. And

21:59

sometimes it's still. like makes me laugh

22:01

but sometimes they're so sweet but they they're shocked.

22:04

Right and I'm thinking wow you

22:07

seem surprised because you are co-parenting. Sure of

22:09

course we're talking about cases where there are

22:11

children, not just most of my cases, that

22:14

you are going to need each other's lives

22:16

forever. So how are you going to make

22:19

this work as a whole? Because

22:21

you're still kind of family. You're

22:24

related to this person, to this

22:26

beautiful being or multiple children beings

22:28

right? And so what would

22:30

love do in the situation? And love

22:32

would connect all of you and

22:34

all of your needs from a holistic view right?

22:37

So like I said to you at the beginning of

22:39

my career I thought being being

22:41

a good lawyer was advocating for my

22:43

client and getting them a great deal and I you

22:45

know I kind of I'm a negotiator at heart right?

22:47

So that's kind

22:50

of how I started but even before

22:52

I had kids I realized that's

22:54

not going to work. So what

22:57

are the needs of each of

22:59

you as individuals and then what are the needs

23:01

as a family, as the new family right?

23:04

Because as we know divorces

23:06

are commonplace today as

23:08

they should be. People should be able to pursue love

23:11

and happiness in their own form but

23:14

the goal here I think for all of

23:16

us is to reduce the conflict for the children right?

23:19

So how do we do this from a

23:21

mindful perspective?

23:24

And so again it kind of circles

23:26

back to that whole paradigm of fear

23:28

versus love, equal versus centeredness

23:32

right? And mindfulness and

23:34

so I talk a lot

23:36

to the parents about what is your intention kind

23:38

of like what's your why right?

23:40

So what is your

23:43

intention to ask for the house or why do

23:46

you want this schedule or is this linked to

23:48

really to child support or is

23:50

this really about the children right?

23:54

And like you I say you know what's true in the

23:56

macro is true in the micro and I really really feel

23:58

that and so I I work with

24:00

them to understand intention on a

24:03

macro level, right? So our

24:05

whole agreement needs a macro good

24:07

pure intention and then

24:09

also how intention is actually really powerful

24:12

on a micro level when you're communicating

24:14

with that parent, right? So

24:16

before you send that text message about Susie's

24:19

soccer class for the missing gym

24:21

uniform or whatever it is, right?

24:24

Which is what keeps my phone ringing off the hook. Do

24:28

you know what I mean? Like

24:30

these are some realities that people

24:32

are struggling with. Are

24:35

you able to enter a space

24:37

where you're receiving this in a

24:40

heart-centered space, right?

24:42

And if you have to walk away from it and

24:44

come back to it, that's okay too, right? Some post-it

24:46

trauma can do that. And

24:49

what is your intention and anchor yourself

24:51

to that intention before you communicate

24:53

with your ex? And

24:55

it's a game changer. Like I have clients coming

24:57

back to me all the time.

25:00

So say to me, wow, it was so

25:02

different. Like and then he responded like this and I can

25:04

trigger it and right? So there's all these

25:09

tools that we're talking about that can be used at the macro

25:11

level. But

25:13

yes, it needs, it's huge. It needs, it's huge. Shifting

25:18

that awareness. Yeah, like not solutions, but

25:21

what are the underlying, what

25:23

are the underlying needs? So I

25:25

love that, that you're working to sort of like shift

25:28

that awareness. So no, how... Just

25:30

yeah, just to give you one example. Sorry. Yeah,

25:32

please. Just so I can kind of like crystallize

25:35

it for someone, right? There are

25:37

people who say in an agreement, I have

25:39

to have the house or I have to

25:41

have a million bucks coming out of

25:43

this thing, right? And so if

25:45

we ask ourselves why we need that, we

25:47

can really get to, you know, is

25:50

this fear, you know, I've climbed to grow poor

25:52

and, you know, where money

25:54

was really scarce. And so this whole thought

25:56

of not having a joint income is very

25:58

triggering, right? So if we're able

26:00

to work on that and feel that, then

26:03

perhaps we can think of it more rationally about,

26:05

okay, what would be fair and

26:07

what would be sufficient, right? We'll be more than enough.

26:10

Yeah. Yeah. So we're

26:12

not having from this, this wounded

26:14

and fearful place where we're

26:18

working on that in ourselves and then seeing

26:20

more clearly. I love this. It's

26:23

so awesome. So I would,

26:25

I'm curious, how do you help

26:27

people listen to each other when,

26:31

like when difficult or strange communication

26:33

may have been part of the problem in the

26:35

first place? Yeah.

26:39

So again, I think it comes down to a

26:42

big part of the communication for me is

26:45

understanding who you are,

26:47

where you want to go and why,

26:50

right? And what

26:52

does that look like on an individual level for

26:54

you? What's your new mission statement for yourself? And

26:56

what's your new mission statement for your family? And

27:00

then how do

27:03

we bring that back

27:06

into what you're about to offer

27:08

or suggest or communicate, right? Also

27:11

in like a mediation setting, what's really

27:13

helpful is remembering your common

27:16

goals, right? So

27:18

where people overlap is

27:21

where the juice is, right? So somebody

27:23

might say, I want ABC and the other person

27:25

might say, well, I care about BCD. We

27:28

would focus on, okay, so here we are. And

27:31

you've both said to me that your kids' health

27:33

is important, that keeping your kids in

27:35

private school is going to be kind of

27:37

a priority for you guys for the various

27:39

reasons, right? So focusing

27:41

on what's common as

27:44

opposed to what

27:46

the individual wants is really helpful. And

27:49

also the other tool that's really

27:51

helpful is trying to detox your

27:53

statement, right? And I think

27:56

that sometimes offer balls on the professional

27:58

as well, right? job

28:00

as like a mediator for instance where you

28:02

know one might say you know

28:06

always she's feeding the kids bonbons till three in

28:09

the morning and she's not she's kind of mother

28:11

feeds kids candy yet before

28:13

dinner and whatever the complaint is and

28:15

as a professional what we're trained to do

28:17

is to take out a toxic

28:20

kind of a statement right so I try to

28:22

also share that tool with

28:24

my client to reframe what they're trying

28:26

to say remembering that you

28:30

get more bees with honey right so

28:33

and this is a long-term relationship that

28:35

you have so this is not just

28:37

a wham bam let's negotiate and deal

28:39

and we're out those are easy this

28:41

is about you start the way you want to

28:43

finish and so is this how you want to

28:45

speak in front of your

28:48

children right because kids are energetic

28:50

beings and that's one thing that I also

28:53

really want to remind them of right is that

28:56

there is true

28:58

authentic communication and

29:01

then there's kind of the fluffy fake

29:03

communication and you and

29:05

I know that kids are geniuses right they're

29:07

they're more in tune and tapped in and

29:09

in the flow than all of us because

29:11

they're especially when they're under seven and you're

29:14

not even analyzing what we're saying to

29:16

them to take everything for truth they stand to

29:18

clauses real to its very real right and

29:20

then this beautiful space but they're energetic

29:22

beings we're all energetic beings so a

29:25

child knows when the parents are fighting even

29:27

though they may not verbally say something to

29:30

each other right and

29:32

so again when we get into these meetings what

29:34

I suggest to people is focusing on you know

29:37

the common goal which is the children

29:39

and understanding that you

29:42

got to start the so how

29:45

we negotiate is

29:48

so important in the long run right that

29:50

getting the home run in the deal today

29:52

may feel good but

29:55

you're gonna have a really upset ex partner

29:58

that you got a deal with in the next 10 years and is that

30:00

space and the energy that you want your child

30:02

to be a part of. Oh

30:04

yeah, for years and years. It's so

30:07

interesting that idea of detoxing your semen

30:10

is this idea of reframing kind

30:12

of what you might have visually say because

30:14

again it's so interesting because that's what I

30:17

talked to parents about with siblings,

30:19

right? When siblings are fighting like if

30:22

you have to be in the middle

30:24

of it and you kind of translate

30:26

what they're saying in a more skillful

30:28

way. Totally and so here's what I

30:31

want to share with the

30:33

listeners is that and this is my kind of

30:35

pet peeve with the

30:38

pressure that sometimes people put

30:40

on parents, right? Because

30:45

so that's kind of like our paradigm that we want

30:47

to change how we communicate, correct?

30:49

And that you're absolutely right. Now beyond

30:51

that, you know, what I've seen is

30:53

that you can't ask people

30:55

to behave better than they're feeling, right?

31:00

So when somebody said something,

31:03

understanding that that's kind of the best that they've got,

31:05

maybe they were triggered, granted, and maybe you know the

31:07

next day they'll say she must have said that, but

31:10

for the most part all of us are operating from

31:12

a paradigm that we live in and a lot

31:14

of people are living in a lot of pain, a

31:17

lot of agony, you know, a lot

31:19

of us were drawn into abusive

31:22

or toxic relationships hoping that

31:24

this relationship would solve

31:26

our problems, right? And

31:29

then when they don't, it's

31:32

a shitshow because now not only

31:34

is the void still there but I

31:37

now resent my ex

31:39

because he or she

31:42

couldn't fulfill the love that I never

31:44

got from my mother or fulfill the XYZ

31:46

whatever the narrative is, right? So

31:49

the reason I'm so behind

31:51

this consciousness movement is because

31:53

I really believe that when

31:56

someone's going through this process, if

31:58

they could do just small learning, practices,

32:00

right? Like meditation, like breathwork,

32:02

mindfulness practices, mindfully washing the

32:05

dishes, whatever you have time

32:07

for, right? Which you and I

32:09

know time is a choice on how we spend it. And

32:12

we can very quickly justify our

32:14

Instagram use and our Netflix consumption,

32:16

right? But what I show parents

32:18

is that like 20 minutes a

32:20

day could change your

32:22

life. And

32:25

so now we're taking the inside

32:27

out approach, right? We're

32:29

taking that empowerment approach so

32:32

that you are

32:34

stealing your own wounds. You are

32:37

able to list your perspective and clear your

32:39

lens so that when you go into that

32:41

negotiation or when you go into that meeting or

32:43

if the process is over now you have to communicate

32:45

with your ex, you're able

32:48

to take the toxic out

32:50

of this. That's why

32:52

I'm saying that like I think to a

32:54

great extent it falls on us as professionals

32:57

because the parties can't do that because

33:00

they're doing the best they can, right? And

33:03

ultimately all of this not only

33:05

allows you to have the peace and sanity that

33:07

you really need, but it's

33:09

the life and home that you want to create

33:11

for your child, right? And

33:13

ultimately what I fundamentally

33:16

is that when you thrive

33:19

as a parent, as a mama, your

33:22

child can thrive and will thrive. And

33:27

I see it, right? Over and over again.

33:29

Yeah, I was gonna say like what are

33:31

the possibilities? Like so for some I'm

33:33

trying to imagine from the perspective of

33:36

a listener who may

33:38

be possibly entering

33:40

into this, may be scared, may

33:42

be in the midst of a

33:44

big life change. And I would just

33:47

love for you to paint a picture of

33:49

the possibility on the other side if we

33:51

can enter into this understanding

33:53

our own triggers, understanding

33:55

our what is our

33:59

highest self. want, understanding when we're

34:01

in fear and approaching

34:04

it in this way you describe, but

34:06

what is possible? It's

34:09

a great question and I

34:11

can, it immediately makes me

34:13

think of some of the people that I've coached

34:16

in an actual program for this, right?

34:19

Because again, the day

34:21

job is the legal work, but when I worked

34:23

with people giving them these mindfulness tools in

34:25

a kind of formulaic manner,

34:28

very simple, very easy to adapt.

34:31

We have seen people do 180 degree turns

34:36

and I never expected that to be honest. I'm very

34:38

humbled by that and I don't think that's new. I

34:40

think that's just the power of the tools, right? It's

34:42

just seeing the possible for someone else,

34:45

having that clarity and compassion for someone

34:47

else and then think, here, try this.

34:49

You've tried everything else, you know,

34:52

and it's not working. Are you ready to try something

34:54

new? And I think when parents are

34:56

ready to step into something new, right?

34:58

Victor Frankel, a famous quote that I always

35:00

quote with my parents, you know, is when

35:03

you no longer are able to change

35:06

a situation, you're challenged to change ourselves,

35:08

right? Stay

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38:36

Oh, I love that. Yeah, great.

38:38

My favorite quote, and I kind of blasted it

38:40

over and over with my parents, but that's

38:43

really what we're talking about here. And what's

38:45

possible is

38:47

unbelievable. Like, again, I do not expect people

38:50

to have these shifts in such a short

38:52

period of time, but what I know is

38:54

possible is that you can

38:56

heal yourself. You

38:59

can see the pattern that drew you

39:01

into that relationship that you're

39:03

ready to heal so that you don't draw yourself

39:05

into that pattern again. There's

39:08

some people who've had like four relationships

39:11

or two relationships back to back where

39:13

they seem to attract the same kind of

39:15

partner. You

39:20

can also not only adopt

39:22

these mindfulness principles that will be so game

39:24

changer for yourself, but start

39:27

doing it with your children. So

39:29

I have clients who are doing gratitude practices

39:31

with their children, and we walk them through

39:34

why that's important. In my opinion, it's

39:37

raising your frequency, right? It's coming into

39:39

a different energetic state. They're

39:42

meditating with their children. I have clients who have sent me

39:44

pictures of them and their son, 18-year-old

39:46

son, I'm thinking one particular parent,

39:49

and they both were sitting there with maladies meditating

39:52

together. So healing

39:55

for yourself, healing for your view

39:58

of your former spouse. healing

40:00

for your entire family. And beyond

40:03

healing, what's possible

40:06

is creating your dream life.

40:10

And I think that's what is

40:12

my passion, is helping people see that,

40:14

listen, this old chapter

40:17

didn't work. But

40:19

you as a conscious creator have an

40:21

opportunity right now to change

40:24

the future for yourself

40:26

and for your family. And

40:28

so the minute you're able and ready to

40:30

take that responsibility of how you got here,

40:32

right, in a loving, compassionate way, you will

40:35

now empower yourself because you're saying, okay,

40:38

I'm in control here. I'm in the driver's

40:41

seat. Life is no longer driving

40:43

me. I'm in the driver's seat. And

40:45

what I say to them is, you know, every new

40:47

journey needs a new destination. So what's

40:50

possible is not only do you heal, but

40:54

you're able to come out with

40:56

a new vision for yourself, for

40:59

the parent that you want to be, for

41:03

your child and for yourself, right?

41:06

The highest expression of your life and

41:08

the highest expression of you. And

41:11

it sounds really like, whoa, how

41:13

is that possible? I'm telling you,

41:15

like, I have seen people, I had a mom

41:17

who, her name is Dana,

41:19

her name, okay, and she had five children,

41:22

she had five children with her, a former

41:25

spouse. And every

41:29

time she had to see him, she would have

41:31

panic attacks. And

41:33

of course, the kids are watching, right?

41:35

Like, they're like, what's going on here? And

41:38

they want to have a loving relationship with their dad and

41:40

they want to have a loving relationship with their mom. And

41:43

they're really stuck in the middle. Like, it's really an

41:45

internal war that these poor children are going

41:48

through. And it is not about shaming

41:50

ourselves, but this is about recognizing

41:53

where we're at and wanting

41:55

and choosing better, right? There's

41:57

no reason, there's no need to like, put people

41:59

on yourself. But so these

42:02

children were witnessing this and a mom

42:04

couldn't leave her house and couldn't find

42:07

her flow in her own life. And in

42:09

a very short period of time, simply

42:12

because she made the decision that this was

42:14

no longer working and she

42:16

doubled down on the tools that were given to her. In

42:20

four weeks time, she was a

42:22

different person. And

42:25

to the point that her mother reached

42:27

out to us to thank

42:29

us because she didn't know who this

42:31

person was. Like she said, I'm

42:34

so thrilled that my daughter is able to be the

42:36

mother that I wanted. So

42:40

what I believe is possible is a lot in a

42:42

very short period of time. That's

42:45

so cool. And that is possible. It's

42:48

so interesting to take. We

42:52

are so afraid of

42:55

uncomfortable situations and discomfort.

42:59

And the truth is like that

43:01

these deep divisions

43:03

and these deep difficulties can ultimately

43:07

be our greatest teachers. Yes.

43:09

I mean, I've shared that like I've shared

43:12

plenty of times my struggles myself with my

43:14

anger when my daughter was little. And ultimately,

43:17

like if I didn't have that, if I

43:19

didn't have that suffering, I never

43:22

would have been able to be

43:24

propelled by that to create this new

43:27

possibility. And you're describing is the same

43:29

thing. Like there's this difficulty

43:32

and there's this wound and we can

43:34

use that power, that powerful energy to

43:37

propel us into creating

43:39

something new. I mean, just like hopefully

43:42

the deep

43:44

racial divisions of the world and the protests.

43:49

I'm not sure when we're airing this episode,

43:51

right? But we can propel us

43:54

into something new and a

43:56

new possibility. So,

44:00

so how do

44:02

you help people? So when people divorce, right?

44:04

One of the things that probably scared of,

44:07

um, is they're going into parenting

44:09

solo. And I, and I

44:12

feel for the single mothers, a lot of the single mothers,

44:14

I know, you know, in

44:16

the, during the quarantine, they're

44:18

alone, they have no support. They're, they're trying

44:21

to work. They're trying to parent there.

44:23

We live in a society in

44:25

the United States, particularly that

44:28

has very little social safety net and

44:30

very little support, uh, for,

44:32

for parents in general. And then if you're a

44:34

single parent, yikes. Uh,

44:37

how, how you, you spoke a little

44:40

bit about sort of after the process.

44:42

So tell me a little bit more

44:44

about after the process and becoming that

44:46

solo parent. So

44:50

again, I think it comes down to recreating

44:53

the vision for your life. Right. And

44:55

what does that even look like? Because I think when,

44:59

you know, you and I know that we have different

45:01

aspects of our life, right? We were finances, we were

45:03

children, we have a career, we have whatever, right? All the

45:05

family extended family friends, all these beautiful

45:08

little plots. Right. And

45:10

what I find is that when

45:12

people focus on one area, it's

45:15

because in the pain of it, often

45:17

the other areas of their garden are also kind

45:19

of struggling. Right. And

45:22

what I say to them is that when you start

45:24

to recreate the garden of you, you

45:27

know, if you were to literally take a

45:29

garden and try to fix it, you would

45:31

never try to fix an area, right? You

45:33

wouldn't just say to me, well, I'm just

45:35

going to change the soil in the cucumber

45:37

section, I'm just going to water just this

45:39

half on the tomatoes. I'll deal with the

45:41

other later. Right. And

45:43

so what I say to them is what consciousness

45:46

tools allow you to do, what mindfulness allows you

45:48

to do is to create

45:50

a new garden of who you are. All

45:53

the leads, which is to healing, right? To

45:55

replace the soil, to water the

45:57

whole thing. And all of a

45:59

sudden. And that's what thriving looks like.

46:01

And I think that those tools

46:03

are even more important for a single parent,

46:06

right? Because now you need

46:09

your superpowers even more, right?

46:12

And so it's really part of this, part of

46:14

the formula that I share is rewiring

46:16

your thoughts. Right? And

46:19

so if it's thinking like, well, I'm alone, how am

46:21

I gonna do this? All those disempowering thoughts, how do

46:23

we flip the script on that, right?

46:26

To connect to those others, to

46:28

ask for help, to be part of

46:30

a village, I think is so important. And

46:33

I think that is part of

46:35

heart-centered living, right? Does that make sense?

46:38

Yeah. So part of that, like

46:40

when they're recreating their lives, and I think this

46:42

is equally important for, even

46:44

more important probably for still the parents who

46:47

have this whole show on their shoulders, right?

46:50

Is remembering who you are

46:53

by remembering your values. What

46:55

makes you special, right? Lots

46:58

of parents who are in a crappy job, or

47:01

a job that they just, you know, there's no

47:03

crappy job as far as jobs, but crappy for

47:05

them, because they're misplaced in a long career, right?

47:08

And I have an accounting client who makes six

47:10

figures and would call it a crappy job. So I

47:12

don't mean to judge any kind of location,

47:14

because we need them all. So we

47:16

see that in COVID today, right? And

47:19

as we record this podcast. But so

47:22

remembering who you are means,

47:25

what are the things that make me uniquely special?

47:27

What's my contribution to the world, right?

47:30

Asking those big questions, I think is

47:32

a really great starting point

47:34

for anybody who wants to lift their

47:36

next chapter. Because I

47:38

do believe that we're all here for a reason. And

47:41

I think sometimes life has a way of causing you

47:43

to forget who you are,

47:45

right? And so that's

47:47

one of the exercises that I suggest people

47:49

start with, to think about

47:52

before they even try to start

47:54

forge a path forward, right?

47:56

And what's really cool is that as we're

47:59

helping people. consciously co-parent,

48:02

I've had like multiple parents have career changes in

48:04

the middle of this. Again, because

48:06

when you thrive your whole garden thrives. So

48:10

that could be financial stability if you're a solo

48:12

parent, that could be signing for a solo man

48:14

in a career or a slightly

48:16

varied version of the career that you're in. Also

48:20

finding new relationships, whether

48:22

that's romantic or just

48:26

a good wicked tribe around you, moms

48:28

and dads. It's

48:31

so valuable, especially if you're feeling alone.

48:35

So it's like you're really

48:37

talking about stepping very very much

48:39

into the big picture of using

48:42

this tumultuous time, using

48:45

this upheaval and really

48:47

look at everything. How do

48:50

I want to contribute to the world? Where

48:53

has maybe my path not been

48:55

in alignment with who I

48:58

am and and

49:01

awareness of all of these things. You

49:03

got it. And what is alignment? Coming

49:07

back to who you are and healing the

49:09

wounded aspects of yourself and what the beautiful

49:11

side effect, it's almost like the side effect

49:13

is now you can look at

49:16

your ex and say, oh now I get how

49:18

I was drawn into this and

49:20

that's cool, no judgment. And

49:23

now I can see the unveiled aspects of

49:25

him. And now

49:27

I can proceed with compassion. And

49:31

it's a whole different type of parenting. Yeah,

49:34

no, I'm completely with you. I mean,

49:37

I now look

49:39

at like all, you

49:41

know, all people and all the

49:43

terrible things that people do in

49:46

the world is, you know,

49:48

these are hurt wounded

49:50

people, unskillful, reacting from

49:52

their their their

49:55

conditioning, their habits, their all the

49:57

thing, all the different, the mirror.

50:00

of various things that help to

50:02

make up their experience and to kind of be

50:04

able to step back and see

50:06

that perspective gives

50:08

us a greater also perspective on ourselves you

50:11

know where we don't if we when we

50:13

can stop blaming ourselves we don't

50:15

we don't blame the other us so

50:17

much either and and that's such

50:19

a freeing perspective because then you can you

50:21

know move beyond blame and say okay what's

50:24

new what what what's really really

50:26

important this is so cool right

50:29

yeah no it's and

50:32

I just want to add to that because

50:34

you're talking about a new world and I

50:36

think that is so beautiful and so important

50:38

right just briefly like if we just think

50:40

about what you know

50:43

just like the conflict is impacting all

50:45

of these children right we're seeing shootings

50:47

gun violence at schools you

50:49

know what is happening

50:51

at the homes of these children and

50:54

I have parents who and colleagues and

50:56

friends who are educators and principals at

50:58

schools and they say indeed there is

51:00

a huge correlation between the

51:02

children that we see we're struggling at

51:04

school and what's happening with their

51:07

parents right and again

51:09

this is not judgment this is not anyone

51:11

this is saying here we

51:13

have this beautiful opportunity to not

51:16

only raise our own consciousness and to

51:18

create these beautiful lives that we will

51:21

always intended to have that's absolutely

51:23

a possibility I think

51:25

actually the world's rigged in

51:28

your favor but the imagine

51:31

the next generation of children that we're gonna

51:33

raise and

51:35

and how this is going to impact the

51:39

type of scenarios that we were seeing today

51:41

right because what is happening when

51:43

people are taking steps that they didn't want

51:45

to take right like even the

51:47

perpetrators you know most people don't like talking

51:49

about this but not to get political

51:51

but you know in all conflict in all

51:53

human conflict again we can come back to

51:56

everyone has their lens for

51:58

a reason and we can can all work

52:00

on ourselves. And when we

52:03

work on ourselves, here go, we work on our children.

52:05

We just change the whole game. We

52:07

just change the whole game. Yeah.

52:10

Yeah. Well, I know

52:12

you have some, I know you

52:15

have a resource for my audience. But

52:17

I'd love for you to

52:19

take, I'm thinking about the listener. And

52:22

there's a lot of big ideas.

52:24

There's a lot of possibility talking

52:28

about big changes.

52:30

What is a place to

52:33

start for even anyone just

52:36

listening who's saying, yeah, I

52:38

want some of that awareness. I want

52:40

some of that ability to

52:43

change myself. Where

52:47

did you start yourself? Or where do you

52:50

encourage your clients to start? So

52:53

I got to say, I think the

52:55

superpower tool that I would first

52:58

comes to mind and always comes to mind

53:00

is meditation, some kind of meditation

53:03

practice for yourself. I've

53:06

meditated with Dr. Douda-Svenza. I've hung out

53:08

with Deepak Chopra 10 years ago. I've

53:11

tried Transcendental. I've tried Chakra

53:13

meditation. There's so many

53:15

types. I think it's an opportunity

53:17

really just for you to have time

53:19

with yourself. And

53:22

so as you're starting to think about,

53:24

say, these first three questions, you could sit down

53:26

and just grab a notebook and do a journal

53:28

inquiry, which is really just a date with yourself.

53:31

I tell people, write a candle,

53:34

grab a bottle of wine, have a date

53:36

with yourself. You get

53:38

to know yourself again, because again, sometimes we've lost

53:40

who we are and who we want to be.

53:43

And so asking yourselves questions, who

53:45

are you? Where

53:47

do you want to go? What's the vision?

53:51

And why? So

53:54

I think the meditation practice allows

53:56

us to deeply come

53:58

to life. into that, right?

54:01

Because it starts to allow us to

54:03

have some heart connection

54:06

and to be able to create a space between those

54:09

thoughts, right? Which is your

54:11

consciousness, which is your awareness. So

54:14

I think picking up a

54:16

small meditation practice is super

54:18

powerful for clarity and

54:21

for healing. I

54:24

couldn't agree more. Of course,

54:29

I couldn't agree more. It is a superpower.

54:35

I think that we don't realize

54:37

before we have had some experience of

54:39

meditation how deeply

54:42

uncomfortable most people are with themselves.

54:45

And it

54:47

is therefore a superpower to have

54:50

this level of comfort with ourselves

54:52

and ultimately to become comfortable with all

54:54

these parts of ourselves. And then,

54:57

yes, we can take steps with clarity

54:59

that are amazing. I

55:01

couldn't agree more. So

55:06

this is awesome. I love the work you're

55:08

doing, as you know. I've already told

55:11

you as much before, and I really love

55:13

it. And I think it's so, so important

55:15

and so needed. You have

55:17

a resource for the audience. Do you want to share

55:20

that? The

55:26

parenting website is consciousco-parenting.ca. I'm

55:28

in Canada. Or they can

55:30

go to my website, my

55:33

umbrella website, which is consciousnesswithbrad.com.

55:36

And the resource that I put together

55:39

was just a kind of a journaling

55:41

exercise of where

55:43

to start. So I kind of highlighted

55:45

the three bullets for you just now,

55:48

right? Who are you? Where

55:50

do you want to go? And why? I

55:52

kind of further break down in this guide

55:55

how to actually extrapolate it. Because as I started

55:57

to have those conversations with parents and

55:59

people, because I do coaching for parent lawyers

56:01

and entrepreneurs as well. I

56:04

don't know what my values are. Like how do I

56:07

find my values? And

56:09

so I break down five different ways to

56:11

suss out your values to remember who you

56:14

are. So that's what the

56:16

guide is for. It just kind of breaks down the

56:18

questions that you can sit down and kind of work

56:20

through as you start to think about your

56:22

next journey.

56:24

Sounds awesome. Thank you

56:26

so much for coming on the

56:28

Mindful Mama podcast and for the

56:30

work that you're doing, for sharing

56:32

these tools with the world. Your clients

56:35

are really lucky and I feel fortunate

56:37

that you're able to share this and

56:40

open this possibility up for

56:42

my listener and to open

56:46

this possibility of what could be

56:48

of this. And I love this. I'm

56:50

all about changing generational patterns and we

56:52

can do this. And we

56:54

can do hard things. And you're part

56:58

of a wave of us helping us do

57:00

this. And

57:03

so thank you so much for your work and thanks for coming

57:06

on. It's my pleasure. I

57:08

just, in closing, want to just recap the people.

57:11

You're so powerful. Your

57:13

best days are truly ahead of you. I've seen it

57:15

hundreds of times with clients.

57:19

And I know you want your child to thrive

57:21

and it's going to start with you. So get

57:23

excited. That's what I want to say

57:25

to your amazing mamas. Thank

57:32

you so much for listening. I love

57:35

what Radhika says about you have

57:37

to start the way you want

57:39

to finish. And I think that makes

57:42

so much sense and there's so much we can take from that. In

57:45

so many areas of our life, oh my

57:47

goodness. If you found

57:49

this podcast helpful, of course, please subscribe

57:52

and leave a rating wherever

57:54

you listen. I'm so glad

57:56

you're here. I'm so grateful for you. And

57:59

I hope you're doing well. that this podcast was

58:01

helpful. Maybe you know someone going

58:03

through a separation, maybe it'll help

58:05

them. And I wish you peace. I

58:07

wish you moments of joy

58:09

and moments of deep rest

58:12

and stillness as you go into

58:14

this week. And I will

58:16

be back in your, in

58:18

wherever you listen to this

58:21

next week, next Tuesday. And we're going

58:23

to be talking about how to breathe next

58:25

week, which is so cool. Really, really cool

58:27

new book. Breathing.

58:29

So make sure you come

58:32

back and connect with

58:34

me then. Wishing you

58:36

a beautiful week until then, my friend.

58:38

Thank you so much for listening.

58:40

Namaste. I'd

58:50

say definitely do it. It's really helpful. It

58:52

will change your relationship with your kids for

58:54

the better. It will help you communicate better.

58:57

And just, I'd say, communicate better as a

58:59

person, as a wife, as a spouse. It's

59:02

been really a positive influence in our lives.

59:04

So definitely do it. I'd

59:06

say definitely do it. It's so

59:09

worth it. The money really is

59:11

inconsequential when you get so much

59:13

benefit from being a better parent

59:16

to your children and feeling like you're

59:18

connecting more with them and not feeling

59:20

like you're galing all the time or

59:22

you're like, why isn't this working? I

59:24

would say definitely do it. It's so,

59:26

so worth it. It'll change you. No

59:29

matter what age someone's child is, it's

59:32

a great opportunity for personal growth and it's

59:34

great investment in someone's family. I'm very

59:36

thankful I have this. You

59:39

can continue in your old

59:41

habits that aren't working or

59:43

you can learn some new

59:45

tools and gain some

59:47

perspective to shift everything in your

59:49

parenting. Are

59:54

you frustrated by parenting? Do

59:56

you listen to the experts and try all the tips and strategies? but

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