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information check

1:36

welcome back to miss saying i am

1:38

tim here today with lance lamps

1:40

or

1:40

it today

1:41

doing great looking forward to

1:43

this episode where we are sort

1:45

of bring everything to the table that has

1:48

gone on over the course of the last

1:50

few days really

1:52

hope everyone out there is doing well you

1:55

know nothing how

1:58

you're doing

1:59

the you

2:01

thank you for asking lance i am doing great

2:03

i love speaking to

2:06

are fantastic audience in

2:08

these episodes i feel like we get more

2:10

interactive in this format

2:12

and i just love it i will read some youtube

2:15

comments in just a few minutes

2:17

lance but it's been a busy week at crawl

2:19

space media and the

2:21

missing podcast last week aired

2:24

two episodes that ,

2:26

our friend bill thomas of the mind over

2:28

murder podcast and of course

2:30

his sister kathy thomas was

2:33

murdered as a part of the colonial

2:35

parkway killings killings

2:39

bill speaks about her and

2:41

a little bit about the case in those

2:43

episodes from last week and

2:45

we have a really amusing and story

2:47

with bill that is

2:49

only i don't know

2:52

ah appreciated in the

2:54

orbit that we exist in now

2:57

in the true crime industry which will will

2:59

talk about in a little bits are one thing

3:01

i want to say about bill thomas

3:03

and his work on the colonial parkway murders

3:06

he is directly involved in this and we always

3:08

want to check in with him because his sister kathleen

3:10

was murdered she was one of the first two known

3:12

victims and we always and it's no

3:15

disrespect intentionally at all

3:17

but we always talk about kathleen thomas because we're talking

3:20

to build thomas but her partner rebecca

3:22

endow ski i just want to make sure that

3:24

we'd always mention her name along with

3:26

kathleen's rebecca and does he was the

3:28

other person who was murdered on that

3:31

day october twelfth nineteen eighty six

3:33

he was kathleen's partner and

3:36

build speaks about her as well again

3:38

just in one forget about that particular victim

3:40

great point lance and i'm glad you brought that

3:42

up thank you very much for mentioning that

3:45

and i'm of the comments from part

3:47

two

3:49

which is called parkway murders updates

3:51

sarah's as bill seems like such an

3:53

intelligent thoughtful compassionate person

3:56

and so dedicated to his cause

3:58

love listening to him on your show he

4:00

certainly a folder sarah

4:04

just kidding there ,

4:06

one of the reasons why we have bill on the show because

4:08

he has a direct connection to

4:10

something that's unsolved it's a personal

4:12

family connection and at the same time

4:14

he's got a great sense of humor he is incredibly

4:17

articulate and like sarah said

4:19

intelligent thoughtful compassionate like

4:22

the perfect guess to have on our episodes

4:24

yeah he really is and i'm he

4:26

does his own podcast that's podcast part of the crawl

4:28

space media family and

4:31

that you can check that out its mind over murder

4:33

that is the title and you can check it out of mind over

4:35

murder podcast dot com the

4:38

ball carpenter here says bill thomas

4:40

as my utmost respect i really

4:42

hope he can crack some of these murders and

4:44

bill thomas' our utmost respect to and

4:46

paul carpenter you now have our utmost

4:49

respect so good on you

4:51

and you mentioned mind over murder

4:53

they don't specifically cover this

4:55

case but they do touch on it they branched out right

4:58

well they they covered a lot i would say

5:00

but they have branched out i'm pretty

5:02

far though speak with experts and i'll speak about other

5:04

cases they they also look at these cases individually

5:07

because what are the things that bill has

5:09

said a lot over the years is that

5:12

there are not sure if these are all committed

5:14

by the same you know killer it's

5:16

unlikely that there's just one serial

5:18

killer behind these murders it seems

5:21

a bit more complicated than that yeah

5:23

and i bring that up for two reasons one

5:25

because one part of the conversation

5:28

always leads to inevitably leads

5:30

to another part of the conversation which is is

5:32

this the jugular set of victims

5:34

related to this particular set of victims

5:36

and if not the related

5:38

to another set of victims or another victim that

5:41

took place years later in the as

5:43

it grows you know this this web of

5:45

cold cases just ends up growing and

5:47

it's again inevitable that you're

5:50

going to end up talking about it or they talk about

5:52

on mine over murder the other reason why bring it

5:54

up is because with our story that have been a crime

5:56

cons his co house kristen gilley on

5:58

mind over matter was integral part

6:01

of the missing bedtime his story

6:03

which will get to but i just wanted to ask your

6:05

that a people know that christ

6:07

in dili really stepped up when

6:10

looking for bill during this harrowing

6:13

event akram khan yes and

6:15

or so in part to that

6:17

parkway murders updates episode

6:19

we get into one of the i

6:21

guess you could call him a person of interest or a suspect

6:24

i dunno how official that terminology

6:26

would be in ron littles case but

6:29

certainly a suspicious guy

6:31

when it comes to the case he wrote

6:33

a letter that basically implicated

6:36

himself in the murders and

6:38

a so we speak about that a little bit in

6:40

part to the episode that came out on july

6:43

seventh twenty twenty two and

6:45

we posted the entire letter on instagram

6:48

you can check that out and instagram dot com slash

6:51

missing csm and

6:53

again it's it's rambling it's

6:55

like seven pages it's rambling and it is

6:57

bizarre as hell so we just want to

6:59

mention that makes your a interested

7:01

folks check it out get a wonder where people's minds

7:04

around when they write something like that i

7:06

have no qualifications

7:08

to unpack that right that

7:11

would be interesting to hear what people think about

7:13

it

7:13

from

7:15

regular folks like you and i to hopefully

7:17

people who hold a degree it

7:20

can work towards

7:22

understanding if at all what

7:25

is being said in this letter i don't

7:27

think you need to be an expert to call this letter

7:29

weird as hell because all you can

7:31

really don't use be offered at all that he he

7:33

was not a suspect until he wrote this letter

7:35

and now the f b i is very interested in

7:37

him so , sometimes

7:40

that's all these leads come about and

7:42

up bill describes his our conversations

7:45

with the f b i regarding this

7:47

are run little and he also mentions that

7:49

he spoke with arm run little this

7:51

children who also believe

7:53

there's a chance it is their father

7:55

on that apart in some of these killings

7:58

ah man will hopefully this is ones step closer

8:00

right i mean if he isn't directly

8:03

involved in this maybe he knows somebody who is

8:05

yeah it sounds it's he sounds like a pretty

8:07

good suspect i i have to say although he

8:10

is now deceased recently

8:13

which is which is unfortunate if he

8:15

if had any part in these

8:19

and will be right back after quick word

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thanks to our sponsors in our back to the program

10:13

okay lamps and on july

10:16

eleventh a twenty twenty two we released

10:18

in episode one of these missing

10:20

updates episodes and we

10:23

asked our audience or

10:25

fine audience for some additional

10:27

title names we still have a really

10:30

fully decided i think we sorta

10:32

still thrown some ideas around as far as

10:34

idling for this format of episode

10:37

and robin and barrow says missing

10:39

karma never forgotten

10:41

not bad

10:43

elizabeth be says how about

10:45

follow up on the missing that's

10:48

pretty good him it's pretty specific

10:50

i mean if anything what we've

10:52

learned is that when you title something very

10:54

specifically you'll get the

10:58

listen or is that you want your there's

11:00

really no vagueness there

11:02

if you start to get too vague then

11:04

you're not going to get the listeners

11:07

that you're looking for so

11:10

yeah pretty specific and travis

11:12

said missing in the americas that's

11:15

not too bad that's not too bad my yeah

11:17

i i i don't wanna limited

11:20

though you know there might be moments

11:23

where we need to cover something a

11:26

missing person case a cold case outside

11:29

of the americas but maybe that could be

11:31

the at or the addendum to

11:33

itself it's pretty good

11:35

missing in the coal in

11:37

america missing in the arctic

11:41

yeah , don't know i mean i guess the americas

11:44

is pretty wide you know it

11:46

it counts all of north america and

11:48

south america central america through

11:51

you getting kind of a lot there's a lot of countries

11:53

mixed into that so into think that would be pretty

11:56

encompassing your i just want people

11:58

in say sweden to be like well i

12:00

guess they can't cover dismissing person

12:02

who swedish through we and we have

12:04

gotten submissions and suggestions

12:07

from cases all over the world so i think

12:09

you're right on that i think

12:11

you become a travesty yeah please

12:13

keep on coming yeah follow ups i think follow

12:15

ups might be update and follow

12:18

ups missing colon updates and follow

12:20

ups on a lot of up sir and

12:25

commenter named trump one

12:27

said not a fan of maggie

12:29

thumbs down on in the why the

12:31

trump one commenter decided

12:33

to write that on this video i

12:36

believe that comments or did right also write it

12:38

on the maggie friehling episode but

12:40

again not sure why that commenter

12:43

goes out of their way and this one i

12:45

also noticed this commenter i do not

12:48

appreciate your hail satan t shirt from

12:50

off from last week last

12:52

from missing bill thomas live

12:54

show i'm

12:57

sorry hey

13:00

whites i'm sure that person's

13:02

fine with a t shirt

13:04

that has jesus christ

13:07

well i don't know i don't know i know either

13:09

i think the the point of your t shirt

13:12

as you're supporting the satanic temple

13:14

at us as salem massachusetts and

13:16

ah they fight for separation

13:18

of church and state and that's why that is an

13:20

important organizations not because

13:22

they are you want to get completely

13:25

into this but it's not because they sacrifice goats

13:27

or our children like gradually

13:29

more of a political organization yeah

13:32

and i didn't know we're going to get into about it in

13:34

front of we are getting into it yes the reason why

13:36

i was wearing a shirt isn't because i'm having satanic

13:38

rituals that my house if i weren't none of anyone's

13:40

business and that's the point of this attack

13:42

temple yeah they're not doing

13:44

that either though they're not doing that either

13:46

then we know

13:47

you're definitely not doing that but you're

13:50

right they are warriors

13:52

for religious freedom for personal freedoms

13:55

and the separation of church and state which

13:57

was ultimately

13:59

what it the was founded on in the first place so

14:03

funny sir i'm sorry i

14:06

was walking into the supermarket the other day and i had

14:08

a veteran who was outside

14:11

asking people to sign some petition

14:14

which i didn't sign because it wasn't the town that i lived

14:16

in so i couldn't sign it it would mean nothing and

14:19

he gave me like the devil horns when

14:21

not when i walked past him and smiled our

14:24

guy i was wearing that the teacher so

14:26

people get so he appreciated to share my we totally

14:28

dead yet he gave me like though the rock and roll

14:30

or devil horns you know what i mean late game

14:32

he that hansen signal and i

14:35

in a little nod and smile and and

14:37

i nodded and smiled back that those a good moments

14:39

and let someone who was looking for signatures for

14:42

some political purpose i believe it

14:44

was something to do

14:46

with the abortion laws

14:48

in that town i wasn't too

14:50

specific on it because again it wasn't my

14:52

town and i was kind of distracted

14:54

by the ah the devil horns at a game yes

14:58

he was out there doing exactly what

15:00

that shirt represented and you had mentioned of

15:02

robin it had given us a good name

15:04

they're missing never forgotten she also commented that he

15:06

was so glad to hear about dark valley incredible

15:10

that those cases are still unsolved

15:12

and what she's referring to is the new podcast

15:14

that we are going to be premiering next year about

15:17

the river valley killings that happened

15:19

in the connecticut river valley between

15:21

nineteen seventy eight nineteen eighty eight and the connecticut

15:23

river valley is located between

15:25

vermont and new hampshire and

15:28

it was a series of murders young women

15:30

and we are working very closely

15:32

with the last known victim who

15:34

survives her taksim borowski stay

15:37

tuned for that and glad that it's gaining

15:40

a little bit of momentum absolutely

15:42

yeah we love seeing the comments about that and

15:45

you can be here in a lot about that show in

15:47

the upcoming months lance

15:49

on crawl space on july tenth twenty

15:52

twenty two we released in episode called web

15:54

sleuthing the disappearances of erica

15:57

hold and melinda mccullum

15:59

and we spoke the a web sleuth named

16:01

gwen baron jerk who we met on

16:04

tic toc you can follow her at

16:06

gwen monster on tic toc she

16:08

is doug very deep into these two

16:11

disappearance cases and

16:13

you could argue maybe a little too deep

16:16

but , erica hold went missing from

16:18

selma oregon on may

16:20

seventeenth in twenty eighteen

16:22

she was last seen by her boyfriend at the

16:24

time goes by hannibal hopkins

16:28

and he said some some legal troubles although

16:30

he has not not a person of interest

16:33

of , case at this point it

16:35

is sort of a suspicious

16:37

disappearance however hogue does

16:40

suffer from schizophrenia and

16:42

was classified the disabled

16:45

and she's likely in need of medical assistance

16:48

that you have any information on her disappearance

16:51

please contact the josephine county sheriff's

16:53

office at five four one four

16:55

seven four five one two three

16:58

and

16:59

thank you to or chloe

17:01

cantor of the true crime twins

17:03

she hosts that show with her twin sister

17:06

molina he stepped in

17:08

she pinch hit the to do a

17:10

swing at the first pitch in and and

17:12

crushed a home run with a crust a grand slam

17:14

with it so i just wanted to personally thank

17:17

her i was at a funeral i couldn't make

17:19

it and again so

17:21

good to have the people in your

17:24

network of friends

17:27

and colleagues that you can reach out to

17:30

no have no problem just get beyond

17:32

the mike and contributing some

17:34

really valuable stuff i thought she did an amazing

17:37

job so big thanks to chloe for stepping

17:40

absolutely a big thanks to chloe and gwen

17:42

and i'm also we spoke

17:45

about melinda mccollum disappearance

17:47

a little bit in that episode towards the

17:49

end and melinda went

17:51

missing the from the seal beach california

17:54

on february twelfth nineteen

17:56

eighty nine pm any information on that

17:58

please contact the seal beach the bar been

18:00

at five six two five nine

18:02

four seven to three

18:04

to and even in the the

18:06

charlie project right up of melinda

18:09

his disappearance they mentioned

18:12

her boyfriend of the time harvey anthony

18:14

caron arm who

18:16

now lives in the same town as

18:18

our guests from that episode gwen and

18:22

he's a really suspicious person

18:26

and i definitely on the radar

18:28

of law enforcement and got into

18:30

trouble just recently and twenty nineteen

18:33

this is a a dangerous case to look

18:35

into i think is is a is a fair way

18:38

to put it so i'd definitely

18:40

go check that episode out and

18:43

we're just trying to raise awareness for

18:45

melinda mccollum disappearance it's

18:47

disappearance very tragic and the

18:49

airplane case and in nineteen ninety

18:52

three harvey pled no contest

18:54

to the murder of another woman forty five

18:56

year old stella von whose body

18:59

was found in roseburg oregon

19:01

more than two years after she disappeared so

19:04

again this fella

19:06

was dating melinda mccollum pled

19:09

guilty a few years after she went

19:11

missing to a different woman's murder

19:14

and is now out of custody

19:16

and lives in the same town as our guest

19:18

glance right and you said that this that this dangerous

19:20

case to cover this is a dangerous case to covered

19:22

law enforcement let alone a civilian

19:25

and i don't want to come across his and i know when you say things

19:27

like i don't want to come across as you kind of already

19:29

are coming across as what you're about to say you don't

19:31

want to come across as but i don't want to come across

19:34

as like pods leaning or

19:36

or investigations blaming

19:38

bites it's real it's

19:41

a real world thing it's a real life thing

19:44

and we talk about

19:46

domestic abuse and we talk about how these

19:48

things escalate until it's too

19:50

late and if gwen and this person of

19:52

interest are in the same town and

19:55

see as as energetic

19:57

and enthusiastic in her personal civilian

19:59

be the investigation into this case

20:03

tread lightly on that because you're

20:05

not equipped to handle what

20:08

could possibly be coming your way if you're

20:10

right law enforcement they

20:12

are equipped to hear to handle that to be come across

20:14

anything you need to turn it

20:16

in your you need to what did

20:18

in the right hands somebody like that

20:20

man backed into a corner you don't

20:23

know what they're capable of and lands last

20:25

friday on july eighth

20:27

twenty twenty two we had a live

20:29

pop up show with

20:32

bill thomas the aforementioned bill

20:34

thomas a hand and

20:36

rebecca sebastian of the dialogue

20:38

podcast and that yellow tape true

20:40

crime trivia we had them

20:42

on this live show where

20:44

we broke down what happened

20:47

at crime com twenty twenty two when bill

20:49

thomas was doing air quotes here

20:51

missing arm at at

20:53

crime gone twenty twenty two because in rebecca sebastian's

20:56

eyes he was unaccounted

20:58

for for a period of time from

21:01

the palaces perspective he

21:03

was exactly where he was supposed to be and

21:06

this actually lead to some i guess

21:08

comical confusion is a decent

21:10

way to put it on for us

21:12

and i hope our audience found

21:15

this amusing as well we

21:17

, lot of missing persons cases on

21:20

this show and we don't make light

21:22

of them but this situation

21:24

because situation had because it ending

21:27

it felt like it was okay to

21:29

sort of dive into it a little bit and try to have

21:31

a little fun with also because both

21:34

bill and rebecca were one hundred percent

21:36

on board and i think everybody

21:38

realized and appreciated the fact that it did have

21:40

a happy ending but i'd

21:42

love the idea that these people came together

21:45

especially rebecca kristen gilley ah

21:47

we had doctor shiloh you and i

21:49

were we were all talking about bill that

21:51

night and looking for i'm in trying to figure out

21:53

the best course of action and it was this

21:55

wonderful like relief and sigh when

21:57

we found out that he was okay

22:00

also

22:02

he was very confused about why people thought he

22:04

was missing and then when you heard the story

22:06

and all these little miscommunications that happened

22:09

it was like a cohen brothers movie without

22:11

like the super tragic ending without like the

22:13

holy crap ending i love it

22:15

that it is this example of

22:18

the balance that we always maintain

22:22

weird ourselves and our colleagues

22:24

and our friends that we can have

22:28

the call to action in real time

22:30

for one of our own and also

22:32

have the self awareness

22:35

to laugh at it after the fact

22:38

while still delivering the message that hey if

22:41

it happened again we would do it the exact same

22:43

way again because i

22:45

think rebecca had said she didn't want to be known as

22:47

the person who cried wolf or the person who cried

22:49

bill bill thomas settled and

22:51

ever happen because it's were a crime

22:53

com or some event and we're all together again

22:55

and you don't show up at an event or

22:58

me or rebecca or kristin

23:00

billie like will will do it all again

23:03

and will all hope the world will have that laugh after

23:05

just like we did this

23:07

yeah

23:08

it was a a great discussion and

23:10

we really did go through like where that

23:12

line is in are we

23:15

at least explored it's where that

23:17

line is before you kind of

23:19

go too far or or

23:21

we whether you don't go far enough i'm

23:24

in this case that was i'm not

23:26

contacting bills partner

23:29

which would have been late at night arms

23:31

those kind of the line there that that

23:33

everyone sort of held up

23:35

before crossing and

23:37

i think that was the right call so i i do think it was handled

23:40

well that evening and you

23:42

can hear all of that conversation

23:44

on our crawl space youtube page

23:47

at youtube dot com slash crawl

23:49

space and you search for it in the

23:51

live videos but also

23:53

it is playing on are missing premium

23:56

feed and you can find that at missing

23:58

dot supporting cast

23:59

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24:01

and missing premium is where you

24:03

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24:05

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24:14

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24:16

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24:28

check it out when you can

24:30

atlanta and we were speaking about that line

24:33

as far as like when to go too

24:35

far or when to pull back on

24:37

your friend or your loved one being

24:40

unaccounted for there's a story

24:42

out of wilmington north

24:44

carolina that was

24:47

very disturbing and it comes from w

24:49

e c t news

24:51

and an investigative journalist named

24:53

michael pratt's did a couple of

24:55

stories and videos

24:58

on this case the case

25:00

of vow do www re a

25:02

wilmington man who police encountered

25:05

and ran his name through

25:07

a database and he showed up a

25:09

day later

25:11

yeah

25:12

but here's the kicker the family had actually

25:15

reported him missing about ten days

25:17

before the police interacted

25:19

with the internet day after

25:21

the police interacted with them he was

25:23

found dead this one raises

25:26

so many questions in such

25:28

a short period of time this

25:31

article that we were referencing by michael

25:33

pratt's in alexandria sans

25:35

was published on may twenty fourth two

25:37

thousand and twenty two and this story

25:40

begins in mid april

25:42

correct april seventeenth yeah

25:44

i think so yeah this to articles on

25:46

this one that came out in may and one that just came out

25:49

in july at july

25:51

eleven there's so many things

25:53

about this story that are standing

25:55

out and it's almost happening in

25:57

real time as we're talking about it one

26:00

the news articles that were referencing was

26:02

published on may twenty fourth two thousand and twenty

26:04

two and this almost by the aforementioned

26:06

michael pratt's along with alexandria

26:08

sands from the w

26:10

e c t new six website

26:13

the call but the wilmington police department

26:15

officers responded to was on april

26:18

seventeenth and that was after vow

26:20

had been already declared

26:22

a missing person

26:24

yeah well was staying

26:25

add the coastal horizons program

26:28

as an outpatient in wilmington

26:31

and that some kind of rehab facility

26:33

and his parents his or

26:35

his dad and his brothers were looking for

26:37

him so , was

26:40

homeless by choice at this point and

26:43

after he left the rehab facility

26:45

his dad filed a police

26:47

report a missing persons report

26:50

with the police department and

26:53

then about ten days later apparently

26:55

vow the missing

26:57

person who's now deceased hold

27:00

the police that he was being chased there

27:02

is some inconsistency is on what

27:05

is actually in the video the body

27:07

cam video versus what the police

27:10

told thou father

27:12

who's also named val do for so

27:15

we have bow jr who is the deceased

27:18

young man and we a vow senior who is his

27:20

father who's trying to just get some answers

27:22

about this apparently he was

27:24

allowed to view this body

27:26

cam footage through the

27:28

internal affairs department the

27:31

app police department which is interesting

27:33

i don't know if that's typically

27:35

the channels that something like that

27:37

has to go through that it has

27:40

to be reviewed by internal affairs

27:42

within that of the police departments before

27:44

family members are allowed to view it i have

27:46

no idea but it's interesting that they

27:48

mentioned this yeah i can

27:50

imagine that's typical i think that

27:52

has something to do with thou

27:55

being found dead after

27:58

the police had stop them and as there are

28:00

dismissing persons report was filed

28:02

an apparently fell through the cracks

28:05

on his body video body cam

28:07

video you can hear the officer you

28:09

can actually see him entering vowels

28:11

name into the database and you can hear got to talking

28:13

to himself a bodies i got so i god

28:15

is this there was this charge these guys just

28:17

like casually doc down south and again

28:19

it's it's not his father martin a blaming the officers

28:22

about this i'm specifically i

28:24

don't know why though this

28:27

wasn't entered into the national

28:29

crime information center also

28:31

known as the and see i see which

28:34

is a nation wide database maintained

28:36

by the f b i were law enforcement

28:39

agencies of all levels from federal to local

28:41

police departments can enter information

28:44

about missing persons crimes fugitives

28:47

and it is available to all law enforcement

28:50

across the country but apparently north carolina

28:53

state law allows for

28:55

one month of leeway

28:57

after a missing persons report

29:00

is filed the to be officially

29:02

entered into that system however

29:04

in this case and in the tragic case of valves

29:06

he is literally dead because of this

29:09

because of this one month waiting period

29:11

and and only about ten days i think went by

29:14

after the police report was filed a file

29:17

and vow was found

29:19

deceased

29:22

that was shorter

29:23

he would likely be alive at this point because valve

29:26

would have come up as a missing person and

29:28

then probably taken into custody you would think

29:30

at least connected with his father

29:33

so many what ifs right i'm

29:35

really really hope that this thing isn't

29:37

the case where law enforcement

29:40

knew that this was somebody who was coming

29:42

from an outpatient program knew that this was

29:44

somebody was recovering from some sort of addiction

29:48

voluntarily homeless

29:50

and didn't have them

29:53

point on any level of priority

29:55

when they first encountered

29:58

this person when they first encounter now i

30:01

i hope that there wasn't that the

30:03

stigma i was initially apply devour he

30:05

just fell off the radar but

30:08

we do know that the family review

30:10

these body cam tapes and according

30:13

to this article each one lasted about ten

30:15

minutes and according

30:17

to and this is a quote from the article

30:20

valve brothers than he

30:22

said that is showing the complete

30:25

opposite of what we've been told for over

30:27

a month now i want the whole world to see

30:29

this because the whole world needs

30:31

to know something's going on

30:33

i don't

30:34

want to read too deep into the

30:36

something's going on the end of

30:38

that that tag at the end something's going on

30:40

but if the been told

30:42

something that's even close to the opposite

30:45

of what they saw i'm

30:47

coupled with the fact that this was reviewed

30:51

and they get approved for

30:53

the family viewing by internal affairs this

30:56

might be some pandora's box at this

30:58

police department is about open yeah

31:00

possible it it seems like sort

31:03

of a bureaucratic goal failure

31:06

is if if i'm reading this correctly

31:08

thou because there are no federal laws requiring

31:11

law enforcement to report

31:13

missing adults to the and see i

31:15

see however some states

31:18

enforce this law by there's

31:21

no federal law which is is

31:23

completely crazy to me for sure when

31:25

you called the national crime

31:27

information center why would there not be

31:29

a federal law that says up to the states

31:31

to do whatever they want him a national information

31:34

center the makes no sense little bit misleading

31:36

in their name right you think that the national

31:39

whatever is something

31:41

that supported by the federal government but

31:43

this does appear to be something that is just

31:45

left not just but appears

31:47

to be something that is left in the hands of the state

31:50

and that that's the union

31:52

right so the states get to

31:55

decide on many cases

31:58

individually based state issues and

32:01

is just happens to be one that falls in

32:04

this particular state and unfortunately

32:07

the glaring

32:09

failure

32:10

yeah i'm looking at those tragic

32:13

case of vow yeah there's no

32:15

question there and , without some

32:17

so twitter contact with the investigative

32:19

reporter michael pratt's so we may

32:22

i try to have him on to discuss this

32:24

case a little bit more i think it's

32:26

important and i think this is i'm sort

32:28

of a are a big issue that

32:31

issue not exactly presenting itself

32:33

as they give an issue

32:35

as it really is exactly

32:37

that's a great way to put it in that sort of what i was getting

32:39

at the beginning of this is that the more

32:41

you look into it the more you realize that this isn't

32:43

just

32:45

cut and dry

32:46

situation where where

32:49

someone who was homeless ended up in

32:51

up in bad mom

32:52

and

32:53

their life was taken not

32:55

like any of them are cut and dry anyway but again

32:58

more that you look into it and just read

33:01

them more in the words of his

33:03

brothers an something

33:05

feels like it's going on there something under the

33:07

surface here the not to mention that he

33:09

was allegedly being

33:11

chased involves words he was being chased

33:14

bread the yeah that's one of the other articles

33:16

discusses and

33:19

vows found dead at a brewery

33:22

and family

33:24

has said that

33:25

what they were told by police is different from what the

33:27

body cam actually shows and

33:30

we most likely will have that investigative journalist

33:32

michael pratt's on as you mentioned

33:34

we would love to have the father on as well because

33:36

his description of watching the video

33:39

is heartbreaking in these articles specially

33:41

when he sees the part where

33:44

vow says he's being chased by

33:46

two men and one of them i

33:48

guess might have been holding a bat and

33:50

the father had to vowed senior

33:53

had to ask them to rewind

33:56

it so he could watch it again

33:58

which is amazing

34:01

you're doing this in front of law enforcement and

34:05

you need to see that footage again so you can

34:08

figure what's going on i don't know where the investigations

34:10

out because obviously we're not part of the wilmington

34:12

police department we don't have the inside track their maybe

34:15

they are working on it super hard and

34:17

hard and you know hitting the streets

34:19

on it by again you'll

34:22

with something else is going on here and

34:24

will be right back after quick word from

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thanks to our sponsors the now we're back to the program

36:03

lance in our episode from the missing

36:05

part guess that was released on june twenty

36:07

seventh twenty twenty two we

36:10

discuss the murder of livia

36:12

louis and speaking

36:14

of frustrating tragedies

36:17

that could have been avoided this

36:19

case is one as well we would love

36:21

to come on this show and say

36:24

here's an update about matthew

36:26

edgar well we can't

36:29

because there is no update because when you look

36:31

up anything on is all the articles are stars

36:33

are so old at this point he

36:36

just walked out of the courthouse after

36:38

the second day of his hearing

36:41

and because his bond was

36:44

reached due to some weird loophole

36:47

he was able to just leave and

36:49

i'm not oversimplifying it this is

36:51

what happened he walked out of the courthouses

36:54

a picture of him on january twenty six

36:56

he was supposed to arrive back at

36:58

the courthouse the next day on the twenty seventh he

37:01

didn't show up and no one has seen

37:03

him since he , actually

37:05

been sentenced to ninety nine years

37:08

so this is just a formality

37:11

the third day was essentially a formality

37:13

where he would be sentenced i'm assuming

37:16

and proceed to serve out

37:18

his time in maybe file some appeals

37:20

but he just didn't show up

37:22

then come back a hen to add

37:25

insult to injury

37:27

he actually filed and i

37:29

know he said this before but i just can't have this

37:31

lost in the in the mix of

37:33

everything he filed charges

37:37

against libby lewis's

37:39

mom darcy because she saw

37:41

him in a convenience store after

37:43

his bond was reached and he was able to

37:45

leave and see became

37:48

verbally and physically abusive towards them

37:51

he killed her daughter then

37:54

he had the audacity to file

37:56

charges for i

37:59

believe it was in danger

38:01

men and bodily harm something like

38:03

that image of than

38:05

that the absolute audacity

38:08

on this yeah and now he's

38:10

gone any the murderer he's a

38:12

convicted murderer configured murder

38:15

on a loose so if you see

38:17

this person please do the right

38:19

thing and contact the us marshal

38:21

service or the texas

38:24

rangers or the say been county

38:26

sheriff's office that

38:28

see been county in texas and

38:31

the horn

38:33

how's that he walked out of was in hemphill

38:35

i think i'm pronouncing that correctly hemphill

38:37

texas lance

38:39

last tuesday night july

38:41

fifth for our crime and culture

38:44

a live show which is something we

38:46

do every other tuesday night on

38:48

crawl space across bases

38:50

channels extremes live

38:52

and we had an amazing panel

38:55

about ethics in true crime

38:57

creation with robbie with shadowy

39:00

saline beth olsen and

39:02

sarich hey lean joining us for

39:04

this lives and it was

39:07

brought to our attention by saline

39:09

bath who is a friend of ours we've had our on the show

39:11

she's a documentary and

39:13

she's worked on a had been

39:15

the documentary and

39:17

that is where we initially made

39:19

contact with her and since then we've

39:22

maintained a really good relationship like i said she's

39:24

a friend of ours and now i'm happy to

39:26

say that all of those individuals who

39:28

were present during a panel are

39:30

not only excellent colleagues of

39:32

hours but i would consider them friends as well

39:35

sarah kaylee and we've had her on numerous

39:37

times so she's an old friend and we

39:39

wanted to talk about this issue

39:41

that has gained

39:43

so much

39:46

momentum in the true crime community

39:49

about ethics and qualifications

39:51

and misuse of your popularity

39:54

and whatever power that you might have garnered

39:57

over the course of your existence in the true

39:59

crime community it really rebels

40:01

out to the listeners to victim's

40:04

family members friends etc

40:07

media coverage it's becoming

40:09

a problem

40:11

and

40:12

for whatever reason i feel like

40:14

we're in a good you and i and the crawl space

40:17

network we're in good

40:19

position to use

40:22

our platform to make sure that this

40:24

doesn't turn into a situation

40:26

that we see all

40:28

too often in other industries where it

40:30

swept under the rug until it becomes

40:32

so big and so controversial

40:35

and so detrimental that it actually brings

40:37

down to a point some industries

40:40

and some organizations are

40:42

what we try to do with the true crime communities

40:45

be as productive as possible learn from our mistakes

40:47

which we've made plenty and hopefully

40:49

have responsibly learned from and

40:52

again use our platform to try to

40:56

encourage others to do

40:58

the same

40:59

so by the time this ethics panel is

41:01

released on crawl space on

41:04

you tube on the podcast feed on

41:06

july twenty fourth there's a very

41:08

very very good chance that at

41:11

least one maybe two news articles

41:14

from major mainstream

41:17

news organizations we'll

41:20

be covering this so

41:23

again this is something that gaining momentum

41:26

and it's important to listen important so that it doesn't turn

41:28

into something that is going to bring down or

41:31

significantly harm this particular genre

41:34

that is coming to the crawl space podcast feed

41:36

on july twenty fourth twenty twenty

41:38

two you can check that out there and

41:40

lance on thursday july

41:43

fourteenth on the missing feed we

41:45

are releasing an episode about the

41:47

disappearance of tabitha queen

41:49

of from bastrop louisiana

41:52

is not out at the time of this

41:54

recording but it will be out this week and

41:57

this is a another really

41:59

tragic and i'm

42:01

pretty much terrifying to hear

42:03

the details that tabitha

42:06

was essentially abducted from her home

42:08

in front of her children and it's one

42:10

of these disappearances one of these stories

42:12

that we look at each other

42:14

were like why hasn't this been solved tiny

42:18

town everyone knows everyone everyone

42:20

seems to know who's responsible there

42:24

hasn't been any significant movement

42:26

that we know of that could lead to a conclusion that we do

42:28

know through our inside

42:30

sources that there has been some

42:33

developments by again

42:35

nothing has been officially declared

42:37

as the homicide

42:40

or she hasn't been or she's been found

42:42

or there's been a sightings incredibly

42:45

heart wrenching because the last time

42:48

anyone heard from her it was on

42:50

mother's day may nine two thousand two thousand one

42:52

and she called her mother to wisher a happy

42:54

mother's day and like

42:56

you said tim she is a mother of three lived

42:59

her life hustling to raise kids

43:02

and now she's gone and now those kids don't have a mom

43:05

as far as we it's really

43:07

sad and tabitha mah meri speaks

43:09

with crawl space media is jennifer a male

43:11

in this episode to

43:14

really break it down and you can hear that emotion

43:16

on mary's voice and

43:18

taboo the queen is five four

43:21

and wait about two hundred and thirty pounds

43:23

when she vanished she's vanished african american

43:25

woman as you have any information

43:27

please contact the bastrop lisa barb

43:29

and at three one eight to eight

43:32

one eight one to two

43:34

and every time we've talked about tabitha his

43:36

disappearance the like to mention

43:38

that a colleague of hours

43:41

gray hughes has done a wonderful

43:43

breakdown of the surveillance video

43:46

so please if you have time

43:48

go to gray hughes investigators

43:50

you tube channel and you

43:52

can look at this video that he does he

43:54

breaks down the surveillance of this

43:57

car between two buildings and individual

43:59

walking weight of the great job and provides

44:01

a really productive service to tabitha

44:03

his disappearance or lanes and we're almost

44:06

done with here with this episode but out

44:08

one more missing persons case to

44:10

mention out of cherokee county

44:12

georgia and the cherokee

44:14

sheriff's office is requesting assistance

44:17

in locating william lightfoot

44:19

who was a a white man seems

44:22

pretty young he was last seen that

44:25

thirty three ten trinity church

44:27

road in can't in georgia around

44:30

nine pm on july eighth twenty

44:32

twenty two says a very recent

44:34

case hopefully he can be found on

44:37

injured unharmed if you have

44:39

any information on williams whereabouts

44:41

please call six seven eight four

44:44

nine three four zero eight

44:46

zero

44:47

are you everybody thanks a lot for listening make sure

44:49

to check out tabitha queens episode on

44:52

thursday and will see

44:54

you soon

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