0:00

This is a Glassbox Media Podcast.

0:41

Welcome back to Missing. I am Tim here

0:43

today with Lance. Lance, how are you today?

0:45

I'm doing fantastic today, Tim. I hope all

0:48

of the missing listeners are doing as fantastic

0:50

as I'm doing. You seem to be doing

0:52

well, Tim. I feel inspired after this conversation

0:54

that we had. Are you feeling the same

0:57

way? How are you? I'm

0:59

doing great. Thanks a lot for

1:01

asking. And yeah, we spoke with

1:03

Allison Dyker in this interview, and

1:05

she is the daughter of Leneen

1:07

Rogers, who went missing on January

1:09

7th, 1981. At

1:13

the time of her disappearance, Leneen was 5'5", 140 pounds,

1:16

with sandy brown slash blonde

1:21

hair and gray eyes. And

1:23

if you have any information,

1:25

please call 814-332-6911. And

1:31

the reason why I said that I felt inspired

1:33

after this conversation is because Allison

1:36

has come out of this period of

1:38

her life in her adolescence, this period

1:40

of abuse and witnessing this abuse, to

1:42

write a book, too, A

1:44

Daughter's Journey and Story

1:46

of Resilience. This is a book that

1:49

you can find in any of your

1:51

booksellers, including Amazon. But she writes this

1:53

story. She's also used this traumatic moment

1:55

in her life to educate younger

1:58

people, including her family as well. So

2:00

what I thought was going to be a

2:02

heavy, serious conversation, which it was, turned out

2:04

to be not so much and I left

2:07

this conversation feeling like, hey, this woman

2:09

got through a lot and

2:11

it kind of puts a lot of things into perspective in

2:13

your own life, you know? Yeah,

2:15

absolutely. Yeah, Alison is

2:17

incredible to have lived through what she's

2:20

lived through and I'm sure you'll agree

2:22

after listening to her teller story in

2:24

her own words. But yeah,

2:26

you can pick up her book as well. It's

2:28

on Amazon and anywhere else you choose

2:31

to do your book shopping. And we're

2:33

just going to take a quick break

2:35

for commercial and we'll be right back

2:37

with Alison Diker. Before

2:44

we begin today's episode, you're about

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selectquote.com. Select quote, we

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shop, you save. Full

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details on example policies at selectquote.com

4:08

slash commercials. Welcome

4:19

to the podcast, Alison Diker. How

4:21

are you today? I

4:23

am great. Thank you for having me. Yes.

4:26

Thank you so much for joining us. It's

4:28

so good to virtually meet you. We've

4:30

been working with the Light the Way organization,

4:33

Light the Way Missing. So that's how we

4:35

got connected here. Can you

4:37

introduce yourself and how you met Light

4:41

the Way and what it is that

4:43

brings you to the show tonight? Absolutely.

4:47

So Light the Way actually

4:51

joined my Facebook

4:54

page. I created

4:56

a Justice for Launeen page

4:58

on Facebook

5:01

and Launeen is my mother. She

5:04

has been a missing person for, it'll

5:06

be 43 years in January. I

5:10

was only five when she disappeared. And I,

5:13

you know, when I became an adult, I

5:16

started to question and started to think, you

5:19

know, I used to be afraid of the

5:21

story and afraid to even ask questions. But

5:24

when I became an adult and just felt, you

5:26

know, more confident in myself and safe, I

5:29

thought, you know, somebody has got to ask

5:31

questions. What happened? And so

5:33

I created this page and worked

5:36

really hard on trying

5:38

to bring awareness to the page, awareness

5:40

to the case. And I was lucky

5:42

that Light the Way found my page

5:45

and they joined and then said, we want

5:47

to help. And I said,

5:50

that's fantastic. And they

5:52

then connected me with you. Very

5:54

cool. Well, yeah, you've been doing a

5:56

great job advocating and really getting out

5:58

there with interviews. So well done with

6:02

all that. Yeah. Can

6:05

you tell us a little bit about your

6:07

background? I was born to

6:10

two deaf parents. My mother and

6:12

father were both deaf. They

6:16

had a rocky relationship from the start. And

6:18

I was born

6:22

shortly after they were married. I had a

6:24

brother that was born shortly after that. And

6:26

I do believe my mother hoped that having

6:29

children, which she dreamed

6:31

of, would also change my father and

6:34

his abusive and

6:36

criminal ways that

6:38

she had experienced during

6:41

their marriage. And long before their marriage,

6:43

for sure, it did not.

6:46

And when I was

6:48

five, she actually

6:51

became a missing person.

6:53

And the story

6:56

there is she was planning to leave

6:58

my father. So in October,

7:01

they were actually legally separated in

7:03

October of 1980. And

7:10

my mother allowed him to come

7:12

back to the home because the

7:14

area is very snowy

7:17

at the snow belt area. And

7:19

she wanted him to be able

7:21

to experience Christmas with

7:23

his children. We were young. So

7:26

she allowed him to come back to the

7:28

home over the Christmas holiday, concerned

7:30

for the weather and his ability to get

7:33

back and forth from where he was

7:35

staying, which was with his parents. So

7:38

we did Christmas together. She did indicate

7:40

that when Christmas was done, he needed

7:42

to go home. They were

7:44

not getting back together. She was just being kind.

7:47

And shortly after that,

7:49

so the night of January 6,

7:51

1981, she

7:55

decided that he

7:57

was not going to leave. She asked him

7:59

repeatedly. To leave he would

8:01

not he said this is my home. These are my

8:03

children. I'm not leaving She

8:06

had left work And

8:09

gone to her parents home and explained to them

8:11

that he was never gonna leave the house She

8:13

was going to have to leave and

8:15

she asked to borrow money

8:18

to kind of help her figure out

8:20

where she's gonna go and you know how she's gonna

8:23

Handle leaving him came home that night

8:26

Had dinner with the family which would have been my

8:28

father my brother and I they

8:31

argued that night and I Know

8:35

that because we lived in a duplex Which

8:37

means we lived on the top apartment and

8:39

then there was a family that

8:41

lived under us and the family

8:44

reported That they heard arguing

8:46

and yelling and you know that sort

8:48

of thing to the police Into

8:51

the early hours of the morning. So that

8:53

was January 6th of 1981 and The

8:58

night, you know going into January 7th

9:02

my father's claims to have

9:04

awoken at 1240 because he was on

9:06

the couch after their fight and I'm

9:10

sure he was on the couch anyway because they were

9:12

separated but he claims that he woke at 1240 and

9:14

she was gone He

9:17

claimed that she left with

9:19

another man woke my brother and I up

9:21

at 3 a.m. And Took

9:25

us to the babysitter claiming that he was

9:27

going to look for her and That

9:31

she had left with another man so

9:34

the babysitter was also hearing impaired the

9:37

babysitter then waited until morning

9:39

so that The timing

9:41

is is very important where

9:43

he claims to have woken at 1240 a.m.

9:47

however he Went

9:51

to sleep when he realized he claims that he

9:53

went back to sleep when he realized she wasn't

9:55

there and Assumed that

9:57

she would just you know return

10:00

And then at 3 a.m. he claims

10:02

to have woken to get ready for

10:04

work and she's still gone. So

10:07

he wakes

10:10

us up, takes us to the babysitter. As

10:12

I said, the babysitter was hearing

10:14

impaired and waited until

10:16

morning because it was three o'clock in the

10:18

morning when he took us

10:21

there. The

10:23

babysitter then waits till

10:25

morning, has her hearing daughter call

10:27

my grandfather. My grandfather was

10:30

hearing and the hearing daughter said,

10:32

you know, the children were brought

10:34

here at 3 o'clock in the

10:36

morning. I'm very worried. Of course,

10:38

my grandfather was very worried knowing

10:41

that she had just had a conversation with

10:44

them about leaving him. He immediately

10:46

went to the apartment where

10:48

we were, the duplex, and

10:51

kicked open the door with my great grandfather,

10:53

went upstairs and

10:56

found the apartment pristine.

10:59

Everything was clean, no dishes in the

11:02

sink, beds were made, everything in its

11:04

place. So the odd thing there is

11:06

at 3 in the morning, if you're

11:08

ruffling, you know, and hurrying to get

11:11

your children up, I don't

11:13

know why your priority would be to

11:15

do the dishes and make beds, but

11:17

he did and went

11:20

to work. So my grandparents,

11:22

great grandfather and grandfather were in

11:24

the apartment, called

11:26

the police. The police came and

11:29

were doing a report when my father came home from

11:31

work. So when my father came home from

11:33

work, you know, he's upset because

11:35

people are in his apartment. What

11:39

are you doing here? Blah, blah, blah. You

11:41

know, the police explained that they heard, he

11:43

did not report her missing. They

11:45

heard that she was missing. And

11:47

he said, yeah, she ran away with another

11:49

man. So then just formality, they asked him

11:51

to empty his pocket and he

11:54

pulls out $60, $320 bill, which was

11:56

the exact denomination. that

12:00

my grandfather the night before had given to

12:03

my mother. So

12:05

of course my grandfather goes crazy and my,

12:07

you know, and a lot

12:10

of arguing takes place. From

12:12

that time forward, there were a lot

12:14

of like circumstantial things that were found,

12:16

such as a blanket was missing, you

12:18

know, a pink blanket that used to

12:20

be on on the backside of the

12:22

couch. He couldn't explain

12:24

where it could have gone. A

12:28

lot of different, you know, things that,

12:31

again, are circumstantial because she

12:33

was never found. There

12:35

were searches that took place. There were

12:38

volunteer firemen, you know,

12:41

community members. I had a lot of family members

12:43

in the area, you know, they did foot searches,

12:45

dog searches, helicopter searches, and

12:47

my father never participated in

12:49

a single one. Never

12:52

asked to help, never involved

12:54

himself in any way. In

12:57

fact, there's a report of him sitting

12:59

in the window watching

13:01

them search like

13:03

they were entertainment. So I

13:06

will say, you know, fast forward that

13:08

story. It's

13:10

been 43 years and there's been nothing,

13:13

no hits. Many,

13:15

many people have given,

13:17

you know, kind of character reports

13:20

of, you know, bad experiences with my

13:22

father and, you know, his

13:25

robbing, you know, stores

13:27

and homes and cars and a

13:30

lot of information that would lead to, you

13:33

know, negative character of

13:35

a person, but nothing that led to

13:37

finding her. And that's, you know, kind

13:39

of where we sit now, 43 years later. This

13:42

is an incredible story for a five-year-old

13:45

to have to experience and live

13:47

through. That must have been

13:49

incredibly traumatic for you. So

13:52

I applaud you for being

13:54

with us today and being

13:57

able to retell the story with

13:59

as little retry. trauma as possible. But

14:01

I know that you were only five and you

14:03

mentioned that your mom was abused and this was

14:06

back in the late 70s and early 80s. Obviously,

14:10

she's not putting her picture on her

14:12

Instagram of the abuse. So

14:14

how was it if you can remember or

14:16

was it something that you gradually

14:18

found out about as you grew up?

14:20

How did she communicate this to others

14:23

that she was being abused or was

14:25

it just so obvious that everyone knew?

14:28

So I can't say that it was a

14:30

memory of mine. It was definitely based

14:33

on my experience living with my father and

14:35

my own physical

14:39

abuse neglect that I experienced from

14:41

him. So that's one piece

14:43

of that. My aunt, her

14:46

sister, a lot of her friends,

14:50

through this crusade to try to find more

14:52

information, I have connected with more and more

14:54

and more people who knew her, which

14:56

is very special to me because I

14:59

was five and I don't

15:01

have many memories

15:04

of her that

15:06

are vivid actual memories. But

15:09

I have been told so many

15:11

times by my aunt many different

15:13

stories by her friends. My grandmother,

15:15

when she was alive, she wasn't

15:18

with us anymore. But lots

15:21

of stories of him just

15:24

being verbally abusive with her. I was

15:28

never told a specific physical

15:31

altercation or anything like that. More

15:35

verbal type abuse. I

15:38

do know that there have

15:40

been several people

15:42

who have said to me that they

15:45

experienced abuse. There's

15:47

a woman that responded

15:50

to me and said on the

15:52

Facebook page and said that she

15:54

put a restraining order against him because

15:56

he choked her when she asked him

15:58

point blank at the death club that

16:00

is an eerie word where he met my

16:03

mother what happened to her

16:05

and kind of point blank said

16:07

everybody knows you did it you know

16:09

and he lost it and

16:11

went for her throat and she

16:14

pressed charges and had a

16:16

restraining order against him and my aunt

16:18

has stories of you

16:20

know my my aunt my mother's sister told

16:23

me a story of he was abusing

16:25

the dog and she had

16:27

given him the puppy I think it's the story

16:30

so that was her connection to the dog and

16:32

he was beating the dog

16:35

and she could hear the dog yelping

16:37

as she was coming to the apartment

16:39

to visit us and she

16:41

came running up the stairs and

16:44

said you can't beat animals

16:46

you know and and said I'm taking the

16:48

dog back and tried to take the dog

16:51

and he knocked her down and this is

16:53

from my aunt you know she told me

16:55

the story that he knocked

16:57

her down and went for her throat

17:00

and that my mother was was like

17:02

stop stop stop so you

17:04

know this throat thing you know as

17:06

far as my hunch is concerned you

17:09

know they did not find blood they did

17:11

not find evidence such as that so

17:14

that would be a pretty clean way to go

17:18

about this crime and it is numerous

17:21

times then it has been reported that

17:23

he had done this to women I've

17:26

never heard this to a man in

17:29

regards to a man but I

17:31

have heard this multiple times from

17:33

women right so

17:35

he would go

17:38

towards their throat go to choke women

17:41

and he had quite a

17:44

criminal past in addition to

17:47

assaults but a lot

17:49

of theft yep

17:53

he was also convicted on

17:56

unfortunately and I

17:58

think it was in nineteen I

18:02

can't remember the date. Seventy-one maybe? Seventy?

18:05

Something like that. I apologize. I

18:07

don't remember the date, but

18:09

he was convicted of

18:11

felony sexual assault

18:14

with use of a weapon. Now

18:17

at the time, the

18:19

charges unfortunately were not

18:21

as severe as it would be now. He

18:23

served six months and

18:26

was released on probation. And

18:29

he broke

18:31

into a college girl's apartment

18:34

who he followed home from a bar

18:37

and assaulted her

18:39

by knife to the throat.

18:42

And he was dead. So he did

18:44

not hear that somebody must

18:46

have called a neighbor

18:48

maybe and reported that a crime was

18:50

being committed because the police kicked

18:53

open the door and caught him and

18:55

the friend red-handed assaulting these women. There

18:57

were two actually. I mean,

18:59

that was the most violent. And I didn't even

19:01

know that happened until I was an adult. You

19:05

can get the criminal record reports from

19:07

the county. It's a public record. So

19:10

I had asked for, in the

19:13

two counties he had resided in,

19:15

I asked for the criminal records

19:17

report and was absolutely stunned to

19:20

see that. Now I knew about the

19:22

thefts. I knew about breaking into homes

19:24

and cars and garages and stealing tools.

19:28

But this was a very different crime

19:31

that surprised me. And was it

19:33

common for your mother to have

19:35

male friends from

19:37

time to time and ones that she

19:40

might go away with without much

19:42

notice? I don't believe so. Of

19:45

course, I can't say that I know

19:47

that it's actually because I wasn't there and

19:49

I was five. But

19:51

I will say that she was deaf. And

19:54

the deaf culture kind

19:57

of shy away from hearing

19:59

the case. hearing world typically because

20:01

they have a hard time communicating,

20:03

especially in 1980. It wasn't something,

20:05

you know, nowadays I think there

20:07

were more inclusive of handicaps. It

20:09

was very different then and she

20:11

would not have sought out, you

20:13

know, friendship from

20:16

just random people. She would probably

20:18

say more to herself and

20:21

just be friendly and loving, you know, but

20:23

I can't imagine that because

20:26

of the hearing barrier she would have sought

20:28

that out, but the

20:30

one there was a man who worked at

20:32

the same place that she worked at and

20:35

he was an older man and I think he

20:37

kind of wanted to help her. Was intrigued by

20:39

her hearing loss

20:42

and her way of communicating. They had

20:44

lunch together a couple times, but

20:47

I do believe from what I've heard and learned

20:49

about him that

20:52

he really just wanted to help her and help her

20:54

get up out of a bad situation,

20:57

but my father somehow found

20:59

out that she had lunch with this man and became

21:02

very jealous and she

21:04

was already in the process of wanting to

21:06

leave him, so he assumed that this was

21:08

the man. And now I will say that

21:11

the police fully investigated

21:13

him. He cooperated a hundred and

21:15

ten percent and was

21:18

ruled out, you know, in the

21:20

realm of suspicion. And did your

21:22

father ever say who the man was who

21:25

came to pick her up between two and

21:27

three in the morning? No. What kind of

21:29

car they drove? Just said she

21:31

ran away with another man.

21:33

No information on anything to

21:35

do with this man or what he drove

21:37

or anything about him. I

21:40

don't think he offered

21:44

any idea of who the man was,

21:46

just that it was a man that

21:48

she ran away with. Yeah, I'm

21:50

confused why

21:53

he would then drop you

21:55

off at that

21:57

time if that was true.

22:01

Right. Well, and you had just

22:03

said a little

22:05

bit ago that you were

22:08

impressed with my knowledge or

22:10

my sharing of the story

22:12

because I was five. But the piece

22:15

that I want to add is that I was

22:17

five, but my parents were deaf.

22:20

So I was hearing. And

22:22

I felt like from the moment I was born,

22:24

I was being trained and

22:27

conditioned to be their ears. So

22:29

even at five, I was

22:31

interpreting for them. I was

22:34

signing and telling them

22:36

what a hearing person was

22:38

saying and vice versa. I

22:42

found eight millimeter film, the tracks that

22:44

they used to have, like the role

22:48

of me signing for

22:50

my parents, which was really neat to

22:52

see. But again, so I

22:55

was at five, given

22:57

kind of an adult role of interpreting for

22:59

them anytime we had been anywhere. So a

23:02

lot of my

23:04

senses would be very heightened

23:07

because it was my job to

23:09

hear for them, to speak for them. And

23:11

who was it that taught you how to sign? Was

23:13

it your parents? Mm hmm.

23:15

Yep. Both of them came

23:17

from families where they were the only deaf

23:20

person in their family. So my mother

23:23

had no other hearing loss than her family. And my

23:25

father had no other hearing loss than their family. So

23:27

they were the the only

23:29

two that communicated,

23:32

you know, mostly through sign. And

23:35

we'll be right back after a quick word

23:37

from our sponsors. Lance,

23:40

I have been playing June's journey on

23:42

my device lately. And I love it.

23:44

Have you played June's journey yet? Tim,

23:46

I think it's funny that you're asking

23:49

me, I was the one that introduced

23:51

you to June's journey because I love

23:53

the fact that you can become your

23:55

own detective, you can find clues, you

23:57

can try to uncover the mystery of

23:59

June's sister. murder so I took all

24:01

of that and I was like Tim

24:03

you need to play don't you remember

24:05

this moment? No I remember telling you

24:07

about it about how you can escape

24:09

to a bygone age of mystery danger

24:11

and romance as you immerse yourself in

24:13

the world of June's journey. Well we'll

24:15

just have to agree to disagree on

24:17

this but one thing that we can

24:19

all agree on is that everyone loves

24:21

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24:23

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24:25

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24:27

Parker and investigate beautifully detailed scenes of

24:30

the 1920s whilst uncovering the mystery of

24:32

her sister's murder. Great use of the

24:34

word whilst Tim I really appreciate that.

24:37

With hundreds of mind teasing puzzles the

24:39

next clue is always within reach. And

24:41

you can also build your very own

24:44

island estate with expansive gardens and beautiful

24:46

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24:48

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24:51

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24:53

that? Chat and play with or against

24:55

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24:58

you'll even get a chance to play

25:00

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25:02

skills to the test. So escape reality

25:04

and immerse yourself in the world of

25:07

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25:09

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25:11

this is the game for you. June

25:14

needs your help detective download June's journey

25:16

for free on iOS and Android. Can

25:18

you crack the case? Lance

25:26

I know you know about Rakuten but

25:28

I want to tell our listeners and

25:30

make sure they're using it because Rakuten

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holiday shopping to do. Rakuten though it

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maximize your savings. Ah Tim I am

25:47

so glad you brought up Rakuten because

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They got Petco on there. You're

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already shopping, so why not get

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of fact, members have earned over

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start saving today. Happy holidays. Happy

26:55

holidays, indeed. Tim and Lance here.

26:57

Lance, I got a question for

26:59

you. Yes, sir. Am I the

27:01

butthead for stealing an engagement ring

27:03

or for ruining an entire dog

27:05

olympics? Is that something you've actually

27:07

done, Tim? Or are you presenting

27:09

me with a hypothetical scenario? I'm

27:11

presenting you with a hypothetical scenario

27:13

that's based on rSlash, which is

27:15

a new podcast that I've been

27:17

listening to. It's fantastic. Tim, and

27:19

you know that I love a

27:21

good Reddit scroll, so rSlash is

27:23

my kind of show. I think

27:25

it's your kind of show as

27:28

well. And for those who don't

27:30

know, rSlash is a hilarious

27:32

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27:34

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27:36

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27:38

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27:42

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you're looking for a daily

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distraction and a laugh, check

27:51

out rSlash wherever you get

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your podcasts. Tim, can you

27:55

spell that for me? Sure

27:57

can, Lance! That's r-s-l-a-s-h. age

28:01

thanks to our sponsors and now we're back to the

28:03

program. What

28:05

was your mom like? I

28:08

know you were five when she went

28:10

missing but anything you remember or

28:12

you've been told over the years

28:14

about her? So I

28:17

didn't really have very many memories

28:19

of my own but

28:22

the gifts that I've had through this

28:24

kind of mission to try to get

28:26

more information and awareness you know about

28:28

the case I have come

28:30

across more and more people who knew her

28:33

and every story I hear just it

28:36

just warms my heart and gives me like

28:38

this picture of who she was and from

28:40

what I've been told from people who knew

28:42

her and loved her she was funny and

28:44

she was vibrant and she was kind of

28:46

you know a light of the party sort of always

28:50

very positive and never

28:52

accepted this is what I love and

28:54

I really connect to it never accepted

28:56

I can't or I

28:59

won't or you know never accepted

29:01

her disability as something

29:03

that would hold her back from anything and

29:06

my grandmother instilled that you know

29:08

and said well she's deaf so

29:11

we might have to help her but she's no different than you

29:13

and I she's gonna do it anything she wants and

29:16

you know I feel

29:18

like I resonated with that through all the

29:20

stories of people telling me you know that

29:22

she never accepted you know her disability as

29:24

anything that would hold her back and

29:27

likewise you know growing up I had

29:30

so many reasons to pick a

29:32

bad path you know and so many excuses

29:35

for not trying to

29:37

be a productive citizen or you know trying to

29:39

be a loving person I had plenty of reasons

29:41

not to be but I never

29:43

wanted to be like my father I

29:46

wanted to be like my mother I wanted

29:48

to be successful I wanted to be

29:50

loving and kind and known for that

29:54

and I became a special education teacher

29:56

so I am 24 years into my

29:58

special education education

30:00

career and I I love

30:03

working with with families and

30:06

children and That's what I

30:08

believe is my mother's legacy that in

30:10

spite of all of this ugliness I

30:14

could connect with you know that resilience

30:16

within her and live

30:19

to honor her and You

30:21

know, I am fighting for answers and

30:24

that will never stop but

30:26

it doesn't prevent me from having

30:28

a Loving

30:30

successful life. I

30:32

don't I'm very careful about my my

30:35

boundaries with my family and you know Giving

30:38

them what they need and I

30:41

often joke and say that I never grew up,

30:43

you know My growth was stunted as a child.

30:45

So I'm Reliving my childhood

30:47

through my children and I love every minute

30:49

of it Yeah,

30:51

that's not necessarily a bad thing at all So

30:56

It's a really incredible thing to hear

30:58

you say you're doing this work in

31:01

honor of your mother Because that's her legacy

31:03

something that she would probably look at you

31:05

doing right now and think to herself like

31:07

this is exactly what I would want my

31:09

daughter to be doing and the

31:12

trauma that you just inevitably

31:14

went through after Experiencing

31:17

this after you were five and and

31:19

and as you grew up I'm

31:22

again so impressed that you're you're able to come

31:24

out of it the way you've come out of

31:27

it can you talk about like

31:29

that time period a little bit more if

31:31

you don't mind like when you

31:33

started realizing they're worth there were things going

31:35

on with your dad and and What

31:38

other family members were telling you and what they weren't

31:40

telling you like what they were shielding from you to

31:42

protect you Sure. So

31:46

after my mother disappeared they

31:49

couldn't Convict him of

31:51

anything because they couldn't prove a crime was

31:53

committed if they didn't have her, you know

31:56

My father said she ran away. Well,

31:58

there's no way to prove that

32:00

she didn't without finding her. And

32:02

there's no way to prove that he committed a crime without

32:05

finding her. So the police

32:07

were not able to take

32:10

away, I guess, for lack of a better word,

32:12

my brother and I. So

32:15

we lived with my father, even

32:17

after all of this, you know,

32:19

craziness and even after all of

32:21

the criminal record reports and everything

32:23

else, we

32:25

were always placed in his

32:27

care. Now, throughout

32:30

my young life,

32:33

you know, I we ended up in foster

32:35

care for a while. I ended up with an

32:37

aunt because he would

32:39

go in and out of wanting to be a

32:41

parent, not wanting to be a parent. But

32:44

one thing he did do is that, you

32:46

know, of course my mother's side of the

32:48

family always believed that he

32:51

was responsible for what happened. So

32:53

he cut those ties and did not

32:55

allow any of them to

32:58

have any contact with us. Now from

33:01

time to time, like I would see

33:03

a Christmas card or a birthday card

33:05

or something comes through that I knew

33:07

that that name was someone connected to

33:09

my mother's side, but he

33:11

never gave us

33:13

any of that. I never saw like money or gifts

33:15

or anything like that. They

33:19

were completely shut off and basically

33:21

he told us that they didn't care about

33:24

us. That, you know,

33:27

we were with him and my mother

33:29

ran away and that they didn't care

33:31

about us because she

33:34

ran away. So as

33:37

I was growing, growing up, I

33:39

mean that's kind of the seed he planted and I

33:41

had no one to tell me a different message. You

33:44

know, that was the only message I heard. I experienced,

33:47

you know, abuse and neglect and when I

33:50

say abuse, I mean physical. He,

33:52

you know, would push us, hit us. And

33:55

I say us because I had

33:57

a younger brother. He was very neglectful,

33:59

would leave. for long periods of

34:01

time, often going to

34:03

his girlfriend, we would be left home alone. I

34:06

remember one time going to a neighbor's

34:08

house and asking if they had any food because we

34:11

hadn't seen my father and I don't know how long

34:13

and we didn't even have food in the house.

34:15

So I went next door and asked if you

34:18

know they had any food that my brother and

34:20

I could have so then Children's Services would sweep

34:22

in and take us away. And so

34:24

you know that led all the way up

34:26

until I was 14 and

34:29

this is another character story you know with

34:31

my father. So at the age of

34:33

14 it was my brother's

34:35

birthday, it was October 14th and we

34:37

were all going out

34:39

to dinner to celebrate my brother's

34:41

birthday. My father had

34:43

a pickup truck and at that time I

34:45

don't even think you know quad cabs

34:47

existed they were only single cabs

34:50

and the back of the pickup

34:52

truck wasn't covered it was just

34:54

open and October

34:56

in Erie Pennsylvania is very

34:58

very cold. Oftentimes

35:00

there's already snow in October but

35:03

it's very cold. It was at

35:05

night that we were traveling my

35:08

father's girlfriend had come to the apartment and he

35:10

said well she's coming with us so you have

35:12

to sit in the back and so I sat

35:15

in the back of the pickup truck you know

35:17

exposed to the elements and

35:20

we drove for about 20-25

35:22

minutes into Erie from where we were living

35:24

and I you know I

35:26

had tears like freezing to my cheeks you know

35:28

when your nose gets so cold your eyes start

35:30

watering and and I was banging on the back

35:33

of the pickup truck window. He just

35:35

ignored me and drove all the way in,

35:37

drove into Erie police station, gets

35:39

out and now again I'm usually the interpreter

35:42

so it was odd that he got out

35:44

and didn't ask me to come with him

35:47

but I just sat because I wasn't

35:49

sure what was going on and the police were

35:51

certainly not his friend so that was odd. He

35:54

comes back out and kind of motions me to

35:56

come with him so I go back into the

35:59

police station. with him and the officer

36:01

says, I don't know

36:03

what he's saying. Can you

36:06

help interpret for me? So my father says

36:08

to me, tell him you're bad and I'm

36:10

not taking you home. So

36:13

I interpret to the police officer, he says

36:15

I'm bad and he doesn't want to take

36:17

me home. It was

36:19

a Friday night. The police officer said,

36:22

okay, well, you can't just drop children

36:24

off here, but please tell him that

36:26

we'll get you some help. On

36:29

Monday, we'll have someone call you from

36:31

children's services and we'll

36:34

get you some support. He refused, said

36:36

I'm not taking her home. She's

36:38

bad. I don't want her anymore. Like I was a

36:41

pound puppy or something. And the

36:43

police officer said to me, do

36:45

you have anybody you can call? Now

36:47

let me pause this by saying, this

36:50

was the second time I was in this

36:52

particular school district. We had moved constantly because

36:55

he didn't pay his rent and we had

36:57

kicked out and have to move. And so

36:59

I was in Fort Lebff School

37:01

District for the second time. I had been there

37:03

in fifth grade and we had come back again

37:05

in eighth grade. So that

37:08

particular day, the guidance

37:10

counselor called me down and

37:13

asked me if I was

37:16

okay, if I needed anything. And by

37:18

this point, I was done even saying

37:20

anything because it never led

37:22

to an actual resolution that was

37:25

beneficial. I would get in trouble

37:27

for telling anybody anything. I'd get taken away and

37:29

that was never a good thing. So I just

37:31

said, I'm fine. I'm fine. And

37:34

she knew that I probably wasn't if I was

37:36

back with my father. So she wrote

37:38

her phone number down, her home phone number on a

37:40

piece of paper and handed it to me and

37:43

said, if you need anything ever,

37:45

you call me. Day or night, doesn't matter.

37:47

You call me. So now back

37:50

to the police station, he says, do

37:52

you know anybody we can call? I said, well,

37:54

they always take me to my aunt's house, which

37:56

was my father's sister. So they call

37:58

my aunt and my aunt's says, I'm done. Tell

38:01

them to figure it out. They're

38:03

not coming back here, meaning

38:06

my brother and I, although it

38:08

was just me that he was trying

38:10

to get rid of that night. So out

38:12

of nervousness, the police officer asks me, do

38:14

you know anybody else? And I said, no,

38:16

I don't. So out of nervousness, I put

38:19

my hands in my pocket and I felt

38:21

that paper. And I was like, well,

38:23

here, my teacher said I should call her

38:25

if I ever needed anything. You could try

38:27

her. So I really was just,

38:30

you know, in despair. And I didn't know what

38:32

to say. Never

38:35

imagining that, you know, she would actually

38:37

be part of, you know, a

38:39

resolution here. So he calls her and

38:42

she says, I'm on my way. And

38:46

they took me into their home and

38:49

I, they got legal custody of me. And

38:52

so from 14 to 18, I

38:54

had the stability of a loving

38:57

home. And, you know, I heard

38:59

messages of you will,

39:01

you will be successful. You will become

39:03

something. You will do whatever you desire.

39:05

You know, I heard these positive messages

39:08

that, you know, thanks me to

39:10

God, erased those negative messages. And

39:12

I did go to college and,

39:14

you know, I did move on

39:16

and have, you know, a decent life.

39:18

You know, I was able to kind of decide

39:21

for myself that I didn't, I

39:24

didn't want to be a failure.

39:27

I didn't want to be just another kid

39:29

in the system. And very much like my

39:32

mother, you know, when somebody told me I

39:34

couldn't do something, I was like,

39:36

Oh, yeah, watch, you know,

39:38

and I had an aunt that I lived with that

39:40

said, you'll be, you'll be pregnant by the time you're

39:42

16. And at the time I was just

39:44

like, I don't know, like 12 or 13. And

39:47

I thought, why would you even say that? And so

39:50

like inside of me, I was like, watch,

39:53

not only will I not be pregnant, but I'm going

39:55

to get a college degree and none of you have

39:57

one, you know, like, it was part of me that

39:59

was like just watch.

40:02

So you know you asked me

40:04

about what my thoughts were

40:06

about what happened to her. Well I had

40:09

never heard anything but she

40:11

left you from five on and

40:14

I had no connection to my mother's

40:16

side. So when I became

40:18

a senior and I was graduating

40:20

from high school my adoptive mother

40:23

asked me if I wanted to you know reach

40:26

out to them and get to know who they are

40:28

and I was like I guess you

40:30

know I didn't really have an opinion about them

40:32

because I was too busy trying to survive so

40:34

I wasn't I didn't know why

40:37

they didn't rescue me you know but I

40:40

didn't I was really not

40:42

sure and kind of nervous to meet them because if

40:44

they were anything like him I didn't need any of

40:46

that but they wanted to throw me a graduation party

40:49

so I was like okay so I

40:51

went and that day

40:53

I met my

40:55

cousin's aunt uncles from

40:57

my mother's side who had who never

41:00

knew what happened to me because my

41:02

father cut those ties and

41:04

who were so very excited to meet me

41:06

and they're like oh my gosh you look

41:08

so much like your mother and you act

41:10

like her and your mannerisms and the way

41:12

you talk and then I started to learn

41:14

you know that they never knew what happened

41:17

to me and they weren't

41:19

even allowed to talk to me because my

41:21

father had all the parental rights and he

41:23

forbid it so you know

41:25

I'm now connected with them and I go

41:27

to family reunions and I try to learn more

41:30

you know about my mother and that's where

41:32

I've heard some of the stories that you

41:35

know I I've based memory from but I

41:38

have to say that you know

41:40

the only message I heard growing up from

41:42

my father was that she loved you but

41:45

there was something inside of me that never believed it

41:47

and I just I just never bought

41:49

it and I knew not to

41:52

say anything because I didn't want to make him mad but

41:54

I just knew she didn't just leave us

41:57

and if he could be so abusive and unkind

44:00

of you have come out of it in

44:02

a more positive way. You've also

44:04

contributed to an organized searches

44:08

and done a lot of boots

44:10

on the groundwork to try

44:13

to figure out the truth here. Can

44:15

you talk about that? Sure. So the

44:17

justice page that I told you is called

44:19

Justice for Loning. That's

44:21

my mother's name. I had

44:24

posted that I was, I had

44:27

gone and met with the police and said,

44:29

okay, I don't know anything and I'm an

44:31

adult now and I want

44:33

to know what, what happened, what's going on?

44:35

What are you doing? What have you done?

44:37

What are you doing? You know, where are

44:39

things? And you know, the,

44:41

the investigator was saying, well, you know, this is

44:44

kind of where we're at. And, um, as

44:47

we were talking, there was one piece

44:49

of information she shared saying that, you

44:52

know, other than a deaf

44:54

person, um, talking about

44:56

or telling the police

44:58

that he had had

45:01

an encounter with my father's girlfriend,

45:03

long time girlfriend, saying

45:05

that she thinks that she knows where my

45:07

mother was buried. There hasn't been any hits.

45:10

I'm like, wait, wait, hold on a minute.

45:13

So, you know, back up. So I'm like,

45:15

tell me about this. So I said,

45:17

I didn't know any of that. And

45:19

so what had happened was my

45:22

father's girlfriend at the

45:24

time, um, they had broken up, which they

45:26

were kind of together back, you know, they

45:28

did a lot of that breaking up, making

45:31

up business for years. She

45:33

was at a party, also deaf, was

45:35

at a party picnic kind of thing

45:37

with other deaf people and a gentleman

45:40

who was also deaf, um,

45:42

was just talking to her and she said

45:45

to him, listen, I need to tell

45:47

someone. If anything ever

45:49

happens to me, I need

45:51

you to go up to church road and

45:54

see if, if he put me

45:56

there. Now, let me back up

45:59

and say that this. story is she

46:02

said that they that he kept

46:04

stopping at this particular forested area, the

46:06

dirt road, there's not much on this

46:09

on that road. No real

46:12

reason for many people to be on the road. And

46:15

he kept going there with

46:17

her stopping at a certain spot

46:20

and going into the woods and then coming back. And

46:23

one day she said she asked him, why

46:25

do you keep going in there? Like what,

46:28

what is there? Why do we keep coming here?

46:31

And he said, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. She

46:34

claimed that she said to

46:36

him, is Lonnie there? And

46:39

my father said, shut your mouth. Never

46:42

say, say that again, or I'll put you in

46:45

there with her. Now

46:47

Marie, this ex girlfriend told

46:49

the friend Richard, um, that

46:52

he said that. And if anything

46:54

ever happens to me, you need to look on

46:56

church road because I think she's there. Richard

46:59

tells the police and the police decide

47:02

that he's deaf and you know, they

47:04

didn't have a, an interpreter. So, you

47:06

know, it was hard to understand and

47:08

they just didn't, didn't accept

47:10

it as a credible lead and never

47:12

followed through on anything with that. And

47:15

I was like, what?

47:18

How do you, how do you get this information

47:20

and not at least do something? But

47:23

they determined he was not credible. So

47:25

I then said, okay, we

47:28

need to rewind this and figure out what,

47:31

where this is, what happened. I found out

47:33

who the man was, um, got

47:35

in touch with him. Um, I

47:37

recorded an interview with him. So

47:40

I knew that if I was going to

47:42

convince the police that they need to do something,

47:44

I had to have, you

47:46

know, evidence, so to speak, of

47:49

why. So I recorded, um,

47:52

he's deaf, so we were signing, but I tried to

47:54

like talk as we, as we were

47:56

talking, you know, in addition to

47:58

sign. So I recorded, the whole interview

48:00

and he was fine with it. And I shared

48:03

that interview with the police and I said, I

48:05

want cadaver dogs on church

48:07

road looking for remains. And

48:11

the investigator said, I'm with you, let's do

48:13

it. You know, I'm going to arrange it,

48:15

blah, blah, blah. Next thing I know, I'm

48:17

getting a phone call saying, I'm sorry, but

48:19

you know, we have to have more evidence

48:21

in order to warrant these kinds of resources.

48:24

And I'm like, you should have

48:26

done this years ago when they told you this.

48:28

And I believe her

48:30

boss told her, sorry, we're

48:32

not doing this. So then I

48:35

posted it on the justice page. And

48:37

wouldn't you know, I got a personal

48:39

message on the justice page from a

48:42

canine search human

48:45

cadaver search dog who the

48:47

police work with. So she

48:49

contacts me and said, I'll

48:52

bring the dogs and I'll have my friends

48:54

come and we'll run two different dogs. So

48:57

we did that. They brought their dogs. And

48:59

so I had two different handlers, two different

49:01

dogs run from two

49:03

different areas, three

49:05

times. We did it in

49:07

the winter. We did it in the spring. We did

49:09

it in the fall. And all three times, both

49:12

of those dogs alerted

49:14

their handlers to remains at

49:17

one certain tree and stump. And

49:20

so I then call the police

49:22

and I'm like, I recorded it.

49:25

I didn't want them to ever say, I was being untruthful.

49:27

Like, here's the evidence. I recorded

49:29

the entire thing. We

49:32

did it in three different trials with

49:34

two different dogs. And the response was,

49:36

well, I wish you would have invited

49:38

us to come when

49:40

they were coming out. And

49:42

I said, these are reputable dogs. So when I said

49:44

who it was, they're like, we know we work with

49:46

them. Okay. So

49:49

that turned out to

49:51

be, again,

49:53

I reached out

49:56

on that justice page and said, does anyone

49:58

have an excavator? Does anyone? anyone, let's

50:00

look in this area. And

50:03

I kind of arranged for

50:06

people to come and do some excavating.

50:08

We all like took it very slow

50:10

and kind of sifted through looking for

50:12

things. And we

50:15

never found anything. We

50:18

also, the police did after, you

50:21

know, the dog handlers

50:23

reported their report saying, you know,

50:25

they alerted three times from

50:27

three different, okay, all of that. They did

50:29

send Mercyhurst forensic

50:32

science team, which

50:35

is a university to come

50:37

and do ground penetrator radar to

50:39

see if there's anything there. And

50:42

the short of it is they didn't

50:44

find anything. But I will say that

50:47

just from what I've learned and researched,

50:49

I don't know that she was buried. It

50:52

was winter, you know, I

50:54

don't know that the ground would have been disturbed.

50:57

I could see how he would

50:59

cover her up with, you know,

51:01

branches or twigs or whatever. And

51:04

then unfortunately, you know, nature, wildlife,

51:06

I mean, the remains would be

51:08

scattered. So what

51:10

the handler said to me was it

51:13

could be that, you know, as morbid

51:16

as it sounds, like her body could have

51:18

decomposed there. And it would always be part

51:20

of the soil and the trees. So,

51:23

you know, when the dogs alerted, they kind

51:25

of punctured the ground and the dogs were

51:27

sniffing up the tree. And I said, are

51:30

they looking for squirrel? And

51:32

she said, no, they're following the scent because

51:35

the scent was going up. And I was like,

51:37

oh my gosh. So

51:39

we never found her, but I don't

51:41

believe, those dogs don't lie. They alerted

51:44

so convincingly multiple

51:46

times. Something was there, but

51:49

I don't again have any way to prove that. And

51:52

I don't know that he didn't move her. Maybe

51:55

she was there at some time and

51:57

then he moved her. I don't know. all

52:00

this, you know, circumstantial information,

52:02

but I have

52:04

been so grateful for the

52:08

community, for social media, for

52:10

podcasts, for people joining the justice

52:12

page. I mean, it has been

52:15

a community effort to

52:18

try to solve this case. You know, I've

52:20

been able to kind of move things forward

52:23

through the help of people who don't even know me, you

52:26

know, just willing to offer a helping hand. I

52:28

believe that we've moved forward

52:31

more than this case has moved in

52:33

over 40 years. And we'll be

52:35

right back after a quick word from our

52:37

sponsors. On

52:42

a hot summer night in 1988, Jane Barosky was

52:44

stabbed 27 times by an unknown man. She was

52:49

seven months pregnant. My

52:53

name is Jane Barosky. I survived

52:55

and I remember everything. Jane

52:58

is the lone survivor of the Valley

53:00

Killer, who prowled the borderland

53:02

of Vermont and New Hampshire and murdered

53:04

at least eight other women. I'm your

53:06

host, Jennifer Amell, and this

53:08

is Dark Valley. Jane

53:11

and I didn't set out to solve this. But

53:13

in the course of a two year investigation,

53:16

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in for an evening of mystery, mayhem

54:14

and exploration of the dark side of

54:16

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54:18

And I'm Dr. Scott, a former

54:21

Hollywood casting director. Now we're both

54:23

forensic psychologists working in Southern California.

54:25

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54:27

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54:32

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54:34

In each episode of our podcast LA

54:36

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54:38

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54:41

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54:43

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54:48

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Not So Confidential. Trust us,

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we're doctors. Thanks to our

55:10

sponsors and now we're back to the program. Just

55:13

to go back to the location

55:15

and the need to

55:18

get an excavator there to dig up

55:21

the soil. What

55:24

did your dad do for work? If

55:27

he was, I don't

55:30

know, able to bury somebody or

55:32

to move a body, did he

55:34

have access to equipment that could

55:36

do these types of things? I'm

55:38

not sure about access to equipment. However,

55:40

he worked in a tool and die shop.

55:43

You know, many people

55:45

have theories that he took her there.

55:47

It's a foundry. They melt metal. I

55:52

have been told from

55:54

the police that they thoroughly investigated that

55:57

and that's not possible. I don't

55:59

know that I... entirely believe that

56:01

that's not a possibility, but he

56:04

worked in a foundry. You know,

56:06

as far as what kind of access

56:08

he would have to equipment, I

56:11

don't know what he would have. He

56:14

was very handy with tools and

56:16

fixing cars and things like that. I can't

56:19

say he had many friends, so I'm

56:21

not sure people would just like let him

56:23

borrow something, but nothing like that I ever

56:25

heard. But

56:27

he was a big guy, like

56:29

over six foot big burly guy,

56:32

and you know my mother was 140 pounds. So I

56:36

mean dead weight is heavier, but

56:38

I would imagine the adrenaline of

56:40

the situation would make him

56:42

able to lift or move

56:44

or whatever if he had to. He

56:47

also drove a four-wheel-drive Bronco, so his

56:49

ability to get in and out of

56:51

dense forest or you know

56:55

heavy deep snow is a

56:57

little more likely in a four-wheel-drive. Right,

57:00

and what was this off-road a little bit

57:02

this location? Where it was,

57:04

it was not far from the road,

57:07

like a traveling road. It was in

57:10

like just off the road

57:12

maybe 150 yards maybe. You

57:15

could see the road from that area, and

57:17

it was an old logging road. So it

57:19

had been traveled many many

57:21

years prior. At that point,

57:23

I don't know how well the

57:25

road was maintained,

57:27

but there could have been a path.

57:30

Forty years later there wasn't, but there could

57:33

have been one then. Tell us

57:35

about your book and your

57:37

decision to write a book. Yes,

57:40

so I wrote

57:42

a book, this is my mother, called

57:45

A Daughter's Journey and Story of Resilience.

57:48

It was the 40th year,

57:50

so we're about to, in

57:52

January it'll be 43 years. So

57:54

almost three years ago it was COVID year,

57:56

you know, and everybody's home and can't go

57:59

anywhere. I just had

58:02

often just had this gut

58:05

feeling like I needed to tell her story, but

58:07

I wasn't ready. I had spent

58:09

so much of my life just trying to survive.

58:13

And I finally had come to a point that

58:15

I didn't feel like I needed to put so

58:17

much energy in surviving,

58:20

you know, that I

58:23

was healthy enough to tell the story. And I

58:25

was no longer afraid of my father. That was

58:27

another thing. You know, I never wanted

58:29

to upset him to a point where he'd come after

58:32

me or try to find me or find my family.

58:35

And something just turned

58:37

in me. You know, I just was

58:39

healthy enough and strong enough to

58:42

feel like, you know what, he can't hurt me anymore. You

58:45

know, he's old. So

58:47

I decided in the 40th

58:49

year of her disappearance that

58:52

I was going to write a

58:54

book. And I worked very hard,

58:56

like at every practice or

58:58

every event I would take the kids,

59:01

my children to, but I couldn't go

59:03

in because only they could go in.

59:05

There were so many times that

59:07

I was stuck in the car and I would bring my laptop

59:10

with me and I would write and write and write, you know,

59:12

much to my surprise. I was able

59:15

to finish that book in about nine

59:17

months and it's 530 pages.

59:20

Sorry, but there's a lot of pictures. I

59:24

had no idea how much, you know, that would

59:26

turn out to be. But the

59:28

gist of the book is I start by talking

59:31

about my mother's resilience, my grandmother's resilience in a

59:33

time where there was no such thing as special

59:35

ed. You know, if you had a handicapped child,

59:37

you sent him away to a boarding school. And

59:41

the resilience of my grandmother saying, no, this is

59:43

my child. Nobody else is going to raise my

59:45

child in a time when nobody

59:48

did that, you know, and then talking about

59:50

my mother's resilience and her

59:52

story of being born deaf, but never

59:54

accepting no or I can't, you

59:56

know, and then leading into the

59:58

disappearance and every that happened with

1:00:01

that. And then I kind

1:00:04

of morphed that into my story of living

1:00:06

without her. And you know what it was

1:00:08

like for me growing up

1:00:10

not knowing what happened to her or if

1:00:12

she would ever actually appear. You know

1:00:15

they call that ambiguous loss where it's

1:00:18

loss but it's not loss

1:00:20

that's definitive. Like I don't

1:00:23

I didn't have a grave to go to.

1:00:25

I didn't even have certainty

1:00:27

in knowing that she was truly gone even

1:00:29

though she was not present in my life

1:00:32

and just talked about a lot of that in in

1:00:34

the book. And the theme

1:00:36

throughout is resilience. It's in the title.

1:00:39

You know I talk about each you know

1:00:42

family member's story of resilience and

1:00:45

that you know as I

1:00:47

mentioned already this is this

1:00:50

is a fight to

1:00:52

find justice for my mother and find

1:00:54

out what happened. But more than anything

1:00:56

the bigger message is

1:00:59

the power of love, the power of

1:01:01

resilience, and you know

1:01:03

the the ability to overcome

1:01:06

horrific things and

1:01:09

put the focus and the

1:01:11

power in that

1:01:14

that spirit within us. That

1:01:16

when you've got nothing else

1:01:18

to reach for just that

1:01:20

little flame that just helps push you

1:01:22

forward you know on that positive path

1:01:25

and that you can

1:01:27

have a horrendous story and

1:01:29

come out as

1:01:32

a as a successful person

1:01:34

that can contribute positively. I

1:01:37

am not what happened to me. I am

1:01:39

who I decide to be. And

1:01:41

you know as a child so

1:01:44

much of the time I didn't have a choice with you

1:01:46

know where I was going to go or who was going

1:01:48

to take care of me but I do now. And

1:01:51

now I have the choice to use my

1:01:53

story to help others. You know I

1:01:55

help the students I work

1:01:57

with. I pray that that this touches

1:02:00

the hearts of people dealing with

1:02:02

trauma and gives them, you know,

1:02:05

encouragement and strength to know, you

1:02:07

know, if I could live

1:02:09

through all of this craziness, you can

1:02:11

too. Don't let it defeat you. You're

1:02:14

bigger than that. And that

1:02:17

is my mother's legacy. I really

1:02:19

feel strongly that, you know, I am

1:02:22

a teacher and I have tried

1:02:25

to, you know, touch others through my

1:02:27

teaching and connect with families. But

1:02:30

I pray that my book,

1:02:32

that my message, my story can

1:02:35

touch others that are struggling and

1:02:37

hurting and know that in this

1:02:39

world with so much pain, you

1:02:42

can be stronger and you

1:02:45

just got to dig deep, you know, dig

1:02:47

for that resilience spirit. And I do pray

1:02:49

that, you

1:02:51

know, my mother is known not

1:02:54

just for this crazy story, but

1:02:57

for that resilience spirit and

1:02:59

what we all can choose to be, you know,

1:03:02

if we put our minds to it. So

1:03:04

I pray that that message is also delivered

1:03:06

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