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0:31

This is a CBC Podcast.

0:34

Hi, missing and murdered listeners. It's me, Connie

0:37

Walker. I hope you enjoyed

0:39

the first episode of Stolen Surviving

0:41

St. Michael's. This week, our

0:43

podcast was recognized with both a

0:45

Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody

0:47

Award. We are thrilled. And

0:50

we're also happy to announce that the full season

0:52

is now available wherever you get

0:54

your podcasts. So we hope you

0:56

enjoy this episode. And if you'd

0:59

like to hear more, you can find the full

1:01

season by searching Stolen.

1:07

Before we begin, we want to let you know there are references

1:10

to violence and sexual abuse against children

1:12

in this episode. Please take care

1:14

while listening. Previously

1:17

on Stolen Surviving St.

1:19

Michael's.

1:22

I am just arriving in Duck Lake and

1:24

I'm on my way to meet my brother, Hal. My

1:26

dad and I were pretty, we were pretty close. My

1:29

dad passed away and the

1:34

only way I can get to know him now is through

1:36

these interviews and these conversations

1:38

with people who knew him better than I did. And

1:41

what did he say happened?

1:42

He recognized him as being one of

1:44

the priests that, and he said, one

1:46

of the priests that abused me in residential

1:48

school. I don't remember the priest.

1:51

Even to this day, they don't talk about what

1:54

happened to them in the residential school. Stuff

1:57

like that, you just try and bear with it. Did he tell

1:59

you?

1:59

tell you who the priest was or anything about him? No,

2:02

you didn't know. I've only just created

2:04

this image in my head of what this person

2:07

looks like. Big, intense eyes.

2:09

You see people who have, like, just hate

2:12

in their eyes, like that. 10 days

2:17

after she

2:19

turned 17, my

2:21

mom woke

2:25

up

2:29

in

2:33

the middle of the night. She

2:35

didn't feel well. The pain

2:38

and cramping in her abdomen was so intense

2:40

it frightened her. She

2:42

went into her parents' room and gently shook

2:44

her mom awake. Mom, I'm getting

2:46

sick, she said. My grandma

2:49

turned over and nudged my grandpa. Dear,

2:52

wake up. This girl is going to have her

2:54

baby.

2:56

My grandpa woke up and went outside to start

2:58

the car. It was a cold,

3:01

snowy night in late March. My

3:03

mom and her dad drove the 20 minutes from

3:05

our reserve to town in silence.

3:08

He hadn't spoken to her since he found out she

3:10

was pregnant. When

3:13

they reached the hospital in the small town

3:15

of Belcaris, my grandpa drove

3:17

past the parking lot up to the brightly lit

3:20

entrance. The doors were

3:22

locked, so my mom rang the buzzer and

3:24

a nurse appeared. Once

3:26

she was inside, my grandpa drove

3:28

away.

3:31

My

3:31

mom was alone in labor in

3:33

a small room behind the nurse's desk

3:35

for 18 hours before I was born.

3:38

At 1.20 AM on March 25, 1979.

3:45

I have

3:45

no idea where my dad was that night, but

3:48

less than a mile away in a nondescript

3:50

one-story building is a police

3:52

station where he worked as a special constable

3:55

with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

3:57

Why wasn't my dad there on the night I was born?

4:00

born? Did

4:01

he know my mom was at the hospital? Did

4:03

he visit us?

4:05

Probably not, because even though

4:07

he was only 24, my

4:09

dad already had two kids, and

4:11

he was married to someone else.

4:14

I don't know when he first saw me, and

4:16

it's kind of a sensitive subject with my mom

4:18

so we don't talk about it.

4:20

But after hearing the story of my dad and the

4:23

priest and thinking more about my relationship

4:25

with him,

4:26

I want to know.

4:28

Did he hold me when I was a baby? Did

4:31

he think that I looked like him?

4:33

What did my dad think about me?

4:36

I don't have any photos with him from when I

4:38

was a kid. My parents' relationship

4:40

was on and off throughout my childhood,

4:43

and we moved around a lot. I

4:45

remember bits of all these places,

4:48

and bits of him. But

4:50

I never remember hugging my dad, or

4:53

him showing me any kind of affection. Did

4:56

those things happen and I just forgot? Or

4:59

is it that my bad memories of him have pushed

5:01

the others out of my mind?

5:03

And if I learn more about him, can

5:06

I get any of those memories back? If

5:09

I find out what happened to my dad,

5:12

will it change the way I remember him?

5:16

I'm Connie Walker. From Gimlet Media

5:18

and Spotify, this is Stolen,

5:21

surviving St. Michael's. Where

5:24

was this one taken? Were you

5:26

smiling there?

5:45

Looks,

5:49

well, see, that would go to a lot of these

5:51

elders' gatherings and stuff, eh? Yeah.

5:54

And I'm pretty sure that's from one of them. It's such

5:56

a good picture.

5:58

I'm in my brother Hal's house, looking at...

5:59

a framed photo of my dad.

6:02

The photographer caught him mid-laugh and

6:04

there are deep lines around his eyes and mouth.

6:07

He looks so happy.

6:10

Standing next to me is the person who probably

6:12

knew my dad better than anyone,

6:14

his wife Norlane. This was

6:17

their home before she passed it on to Hal.

6:19

I don't come back here too often,

6:22

but it will always be a part

6:24

of home, right? Yeah.

6:25

This is where your siblings

6:28

raised, this is where your dad lived. Like

6:30

daddy, you know, so it'll always... And I'm glad that,

6:33

you know, Hal took it over. I knew that

6:36

he wouldn't

6:37

disturb anything that your dad had already

6:40

said, you know? But this

6:42

boy's not much of a

6:43

housekeeper. I

6:46

love Norlane. She's always been so

6:48

warm and welcoming.

6:50

And when she married my dad a few years after

6:52

my mom and I left,

6:53

she embraced becoming a stepmom to

6:55

all of my dad's kids.

6:57

And they had four more together, including

6:59

Hal.

7:00

They raised them here in this house.

7:03

I saw the best of my dad in the 26 years

7:05

he was with Norlane.

7:07

They were together until he passed away.

7:09

Yeah, so I was here with Hal yesterday

7:12

for a couple hours and then I went to

7:14

Auntie Ivy's last night. Oh yeah. And

7:17

so it was nice to...

7:19

Connect or even make those connections

7:22

again. And remember, I think, as well.

7:25

Yeah. So what are you working

7:27

on? What are you doing? Yeah,

7:31

so I'm not sure

7:33

yet. I get to start the first test thing. Before

7:36

coming home, I messaged Norlane

7:37

and asked if she'd meet me for an interview.

7:40

I told her I was thinking of doing a story about

7:42

my dad. She and I hadn't

7:44

talked in a few years, but she responded right

7:47

away and said absolutely. And

7:49

then Hal shared that post about

7:51

dad when he was in our CMP

7:54

constable and pulling over

7:56

that priest.

7:59

And that was like...

10:00

So I'll say and I

10:02

wasn't sure you know I got to

10:04

that point because I was I was

10:06

seeing him Drinking

10:09

yeah when when he was when he was drinking

10:12

and it was it was a different Howard

10:14

Yeah, you know then

10:16

the one that swept me off my feet

10:18

kind of thing Yeah, we were good when he was like

10:20

that, but it was different when he was drinking and

10:23

I saw what I wanted You know,

10:25

I was having feelings, but yet I was scared because

10:27

I knew his his history Norlane

10:32

says she knew my dad was violent in his previous

10:35

relationships But he

10:37

never tried that with me. Oh You

10:40

know the physical really no,

10:42

I asked him I said how come you

10:44

know, you never beat me like that You

10:47

know, and then he said he said

10:50

I

10:51

lost two families by

10:53

you know Then I didn't want

10:55

to lose another family You

10:58

know, and he said he knew he had

11:00

to stop that, you know

11:08

Me and my mom and my two younger siblings

11:11

were one of the families my dad lost I

11:14

Was seven years old

11:15

we picked up and left in a day. We

11:18

didn't even get to say goodbye. I

11:20

Didn't see him again until I was 14 This

11:23

is the first time I'm getting insight into

11:25

what my dad felt the first

11:28

time I'm hearing of his regret Because

11:30

your dad talked about that, you know, he hadn't he

11:33

hadn't seen you guys for years

11:35

and years. Yeah and

11:38

I know what weighed on him, you

11:40

know, but you guys were always

11:42

talked about, you know, because you were part

11:45

of the kids Yeah, like that it

11:47

so that our kids grew up

11:50

knowing you guys If

11:52

my dad missed us, I didn't know

11:54

it

11:55

for me. It felt like seven years of silence.

11:57

I

11:59

I feel like I have a memory of him sitting

12:02

on a chair like that, like a big

12:04

kind of chair that was like rocking

12:06

almost, eating a bag of radishes.

12:09

Did he ever- Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah,

12:12

he ate. Because

12:14

he could just sit there with a bag of radishes in

12:16

DC or a cucumber and salt.

12:20

You know what's happening.

12:22

It's a small thing, this memory of my dad

12:24

eating radishes out of a bag.

12:26

But it feels significant.

12:28

Because it's one of the few memories of him that I

12:30

have.

12:31

It feels like Norlane is validating those

12:34

impressions that I've held onto.

12:36

And it's nice to be able to ask her more about

12:38

my dad's life. Do you know much

12:40

about dad's experience in the RCMP?

12:44

Wait, I'm going to check this cabinet here because

12:47

he had- Norlane gets up and walks out to the

12:49

porch to grab something to show me.

12:51

Maybe

12:53

he'll put it- Oh wow. Because

12:55

he had- his badge was

12:58

here, but his badge- There's

13:00

a wooden cabinet there with glass doors, where

13:03

she's kept a lot of my dad's RCMP stuff.

13:06

She digs out an old beer mug engraved with

13:08

some dates. See look, your

13:10

dad was right here.

13:12

He was in Belcarres first I think, eh? And

13:14

then Shelbrooke. Oh okay, okay.

13:18

So what does that cup say? The sweet- H.J.

13:20

Cameron. From 1978 to 1979,

13:23

so this was when he was in Shelbrooke. I'm

13:25

surprised to find out that my dad was only

13:28

an officer for a brief time. He

13:30

joined the RCMP in 1977 and left in 1979. So

13:35

there's just a two year window when he could have

13:37

pulled over the priest. And there are only

13:39

two places where it could have happened.

13:42

Norlane tells me that he was first stationed in Belcarres.

13:45

And before I was born, he transferred

13:47

to Shelbrooke, and was there until he left

13:50

the force. Okay. So

13:52

do you think that's where he

13:56

pulled over that priest? I think so. Because

13:58

it would have been because-

13:59

because that would have been a priest

14:02

from the surrounding area, I would think. Right?

14:05

Yeah. Shelbrooke is only about 30

14:07

minutes away from Duck Lake, so Norlaine

14:10

thinks maybe my dad pulled over a priest who

14:12

lived nearby. Did he ever say who

14:14

it was? No. No.

14:16

Did you ever hear the names of anybody

14:19

from?

14:20

I've never heard him mention

14:23

names of, you know,

14:25

a priest or whatever that, but

14:28

I knew he had stories.

14:30

Norlaine and my dad were together for decades,

14:33

despite their closeness. She says

14:36

my dad rarely talked about residential

14:38

school. He didn't really talk

14:40

a lot about the experiences,

14:44

but, you know, it wasn't very

14:46

good. You know, he was abused. You

14:48

know, he was abused physically.

14:50

He was abused, like, sexually. That

14:53

part he never really talked

14:55

about, but I know it happened because

14:57

he told me it happened. Didn't

15:00

go into detail. That's all I wanted to know,

15:02

but it made me understand,

15:04

you know, better.

15:08

Yeah. I actually, I want

15:10

to try to find, I mean, I don't know if I'll be able

15:12

to, but I want to try to find out who

15:14

that priest was. And

15:17

I want to find out or try to find

15:19

out, like, if he was ever,

15:21

if we could find out who

15:23

it was, like, if he was ever held

15:25

accountable for anything that happened.

15:28

Yeah. You know, have you talked to Auntie Margaret?

15:30

No.

15:31

She would know. Yeah. Because

15:34

I'm, you had talked to her,

15:36

like, about everything. Yeah.

15:40

If she doesn't know, then

15:42

Uncle Harris or Uncle Dodgy would know. Yeah. She

15:45

was very close with those and she shared a lot with them too.

15:50

When I tell her that I want to try to find the

15:52

priest, it's the first time that

15:54

I'm saying it aloud to someone in my family.

15:57

Finding the person who did this feels important.

16:00

to me. I don't know what

16:02

will happen if I do,

16:03

but maybe it's a chance of getting some kind

16:05

of accountability. Norlane

16:09

encourages me to keep going, to

16:11

talk to my dad's brothers and sisters. I

16:13

want to ask them about their memories of my dad,

16:16

about what happened in residential school, and

16:18

ask if they've heard the story of my dad

16:21

pulling over the priest. Maybe

16:23

they even know who he is.

16:29

You might have to talk

16:32

a little louder than normal. Okay,

16:34

yeah, I'm fine with that.

16:37

I think I'm losing my hearing.

16:40

Oh, really? Not

16:43

that much, but a lot.

16:46

That's my Auntie Margaret.

16:47

At 76, she's the oldest Cameron,

16:50

and the most traditional.

16:52

Before I turned on my microphone, I

16:54

gave her a pouch of tobacco, and she

16:56

said a prayer in Cree. Can you

16:58

introduce yourself in Cree? Oh,

17:02

yeah. I

17:04

didn't even know what my name

17:06

was until

17:10

I went to the residence. Really?

17:22

What did they call you at home before that? Natanes.

17:26

Natanes. Yeah. And

17:28

that means daughter? Yeah. Oh,

17:30

Natanes. Yeah, because

17:34

I was the only

17:36

girl in the Cameron

17:39

family for a while,

17:41

for a long time. Did my dad

17:43

have a nickname in Cree? Tikine.

17:46

Tikine. What does that mean? Crazy

17:49

one. He

17:53

played ball, he played

17:55

hockey, and... Anything

18:01

he needed, I used to supply

18:03

it. He

18:06

was crazy. LAUGHTER

18:10

My Auntie Margaret is ten years older than my

18:12

dad, and she helped raise him. Him

18:15

and I

18:16

understood each other, and

18:18

he'd come and sit in the kitchen. Yeah.

18:23

And we were able to talk to each

18:25

other. Mm-hmm. My

18:28

brother Hal, he shared

18:30

a post about... I asked her if she's heard about

18:32

my dad pulling over the priest. And

18:35

the person who was the driver was a priest

18:38

from the residential school who

18:41

had abused him.

18:44

Oh.

18:45

And he told Hal that he

18:48

beat him up.

18:51

Oh. Huh?

18:54

Yeah. Did you ever hear about that? No,

18:56

never heard about it. So

19:04

my Auntie Margaret doesn't know the story, but

19:06

Norlane also said to ask my Uncle George,

19:09

or Dodgy, as my family calls him.

19:11

Did you know

19:13

that story? Yeah, he told me that, yeah.

19:16

Really? What did he tell you happened?

19:18

Well, you know, I think the rage came out in

19:20

him, because of the straps

19:23

and the lichens and stuff, and

19:26

being in the position that he was in. So

19:29

he kind of had the upper hand, whereas in

19:32

residence the priest had the upper hand. Did

19:35

my dad tell you which priest that was

19:37

that he beat him? No. No. My

19:41

Uncle George is a year older than my dad.

19:43

When we lived in Beirdes, I remember we spent

19:46

a lot of time with him.

19:47

He and my dad were close.

19:48

He was rough and tumbly. Drinking

19:54

and stuff, and playing ball, and

19:56

hockey.

19:59

I did that too, you know. I

20:02

have so many memories of being at the ball diamond

20:05

as a kid,

20:06

hanging around while my uncles played.

20:08

And then after the game, seeing them all sitting

20:10

around the dugout with a case of beer. Sometimes

20:13

the post-game drinks turned into a weekend-long

20:16

bender.

20:17

My dad did that too. And when

20:19

he drank, he sometimes turned

20:21

violent. He was a harsh,

20:25

harsh individual and your mum will attest to

20:27

that and probably has attested to

20:29

that.

20:30

My mum told me that one time she

20:32

took me to my Uncle George's house when my dad

20:35

was being abusive. My dad followed

20:37

us there, but my Uncle George went outside

20:39

and told him to leave, to go sober up.

20:42

My mum was grateful when he listened to him.

20:46

I didn't realise that my dad's family

20:48

knew how abusive he was and

20:50

they not only witnessed it, but

20:52

maybe understood it.

20:54

Because they knew where it came from.

21:00

But yeah, your dad would have been strict too. He

21:03

was very strict. Yeah. And

21:05

mean. Short fuse. Oh

21:08

man. Get mad

21:11

like that.

21:13

That's my Uncle Bill and his wife, my

21:15

Auntie Lorraine.

21:16

My Uncle Bill is my dad's oldest brother.

21:19

He's 75. When I

21:21

visit with them, my Auntie Lorraine has cooked dinner.

21:23

Ribs and rice. Help yourself

21:26

there, Connie. Thank you so much. This is so

21:28

nice. As we eat, my Auntie

21:30

Lorraine tells me that it wasn't just my dad. All

21:33

the cameron men were stern. She points

21:35

to my Uncle Bill. And then now

21:37

when we'd sit around the table here

21:40

and have supper with our kids,

21:42

he used to be so strict with

21:44

those kids. You finish

21:46

what's on your plate.

21:47

Don't drink while you're eating. Don't drink while

21:49

you're eating. Like being... You got elbows

21:52

on the table? Being overly

21:54

strict with the kid, with our kids. I

21:57

feel like that's how my dad was when I was a kid. It

21:59

was like...

21:59

You had to be really careful

22:02

about how you were. You couldn't

22:04

sit like this. They're all the same. My

22:07

Uncle Bill is so different now, but

22:09

I know exactly what my auntie is describing.

22:13

Meals with my dad were also tense.

22:15

No elbows on the table, hold your fork

22:18

properly, eat all the food on your plate.

22:21

And now as I'm sitting across from my dad's

22:23

brothers, I'm struck by how much

22:25

they look like him and sound like

22:27

him, and that so many of the things

22:29

I remember about my dad from childhood, their

22:32

kids would have gone through too. My

22:35

Uncle George tells me they still live with regret

22:38

about the fathers they were to us. Your

22:40

dad was not the nicest guy, you know. He

22:43

had a lot of issues that he

22:45

had to deal with, and just

22:50

like me, I guess. I

22:54

had

22:57

a hell of a time expressing love. And

23:05

it's only in the last that

23:08

I was able to say

23:12

to my kids, I love you, my grandkids.

23:16

But with my first wife, there

23:19

was a disconnect there, and

23:24

that's

23:27

the same thing I think your dad went through. We

23:29

had to be tough, I guess, really. That's

23:31

what we...

23:35

Not to be... Not

23:37

to show that we were broken, really, I guess.

23:42

From the residents and from

23:44

those experiences? Yeah. Like

23:50

in residents, boom, you know, you get the strap.

23:53

So you learn to just

23:56

take it, eh? Mentally,

23:59

I guess.

23:59

it toughened you up to the point

24:02

that it broke

24:04

you inside.

24:16

Coming to talk to my dad's siblings about

24:18

him has reminded them of their

24:20

own experiences at residential school,

24:22

which I know is difficult. When

24:25

I spoke with my auntie Ivy and auntie Leona,

24:28

they made it clear that they never really talked about

24:30

what happened there. This

24:32

silence is part of my family's history

24:34

on both sides. And it goes all

24:36

the way back to my grandfather, my mom's

24:39

dad.

24:40

In university, I took an Indian Studies

24:43

class. And one of my assignments was

24:45

to interview a family member to record

24:47

their oral history. I decided

24:49

to interview my grandpa,

24:51

the one who was mad at my mom for getting pregnant

24:53

with me.

24:55

We ended up being extremely close. And

24:57

in many ways, he was a father figure to me.

25:00

When I was a kid, my grandpa was my bus driver.

25:02

And then when he got older, I drove him around.

25:05

We spent so much time together.

25:08

But it wasn't until I was interviewing him for my

25:10

class assignment that he told me

25:12

he went to a residential school when he

25:14

was six years old.

25:16

He told me how when he was a kid,

25:19

he was also really close to his grandfather

25:22

and that he died when he was in residential school.

25:25

My grandpa remembered that he wasn't allowed to

25:27

go home for his funeral

25:29

and that he cried underneath a staircase.

25:33

I don't think he had ever told anyone about that before.

25:36

And if I hadn't had this assignment, even

25:38

that story would have gone with him when he passed.

25:41

I wish I could go back and talk to him again,

25:44

that I would have taken the time to learn more when I had

25:46

the chance.

25:48

I never talked to my dad about residential school

25:50

either.

25:51

But now I feel like I do have a chance

25:54

to not let the questions go unasked, even

25:56

if my dad isn't here to answer them.

25:59

There's still time. to learn the truth,

26:01

from his siblings.

26:03

Like me, they knew him at his darkest moments,

26:06

but

26:06

they also know what came before.

26:09

We all grew up at the residence.

26:13

I entered something like kindergarten,

26:17

and I stayed there till I was 16. But

26:23

boy, did I ever miss my family.

26:30

All of the Cameron kids went to the St. Michael's

26:32

Indian Residential School. Michael

26:35

Bill says that when he started, it

26:37

was the only place for kids from the reserve

26:39

to go to school.

26:40

Do you remember? Going

26:42

there? Yeah, vividly.

26:46

We went by a horse and buggy. How

26:50

did you feel?

26:51

Lonely. Your

26:54

whole family structure is taken

26:56

away, you know?

27:00

It was tough. There was a lot of

27:03

loneliness, but

27:08

we didn't complain. We

27:11

never questioned. I

27:13

entered residential school at five years old,

27:17

and then it was five months before I see my

27:19

mom and dad for Christmas, and then it was six

27:22

more months before we seen them again.

27:27

I want to know what it was like for my dad

27:29

and my aunties and uncles at St. Michael's, and

27:31

I'm listening for any kind of insight

27:34

into the priests who round the school.

27:36

The longer we sit and talk, the more they

27:38

share.

27:40

The swap they used to give us, they

27:42

eat. It's unbelievable. I

27:45

said I wouldn't even give it to my dog. Then

27:49

after classes were over, they

27:51

were supposedly supposed

27:54

to have been given a snack. Yeah. And

27:57

it was apple peels or breadcrumbs.

29:24

to

30:00

the priest and he

30:02

came and he whipped

30:05

me with the belt about

30:07

that wide. Sometimes

30:13

it's hard to talk about it. I

30:16

blocked it out for years and

30:19

years. Then

30:21

one day I

30:24

remembered it. And

30:29

at that time when I was being

30:31

beaten, I don't know if I cried. But

30:35

when it came back to me, I cried

30:38

and cried and cried. How

30:41

do you feel talking about it now? Are

30:43

you feeling okay? Mm-hmm. You're okay?

30:46

Yeah. The

30:49

one that had beaten me, his

30:51

name was Father Duham.

30:55

My Auntie Margaret says this happened to her more

30:57

than 60 years ago and

30:59

she still clearly remembers that priest,

31:02

Father Duham.

31:04

Hearing the name of a priest

31:06

is a reminder that the abuse my family

31:08

endured wasn't at the hands of some

31:10

institution.

31:12

People carried out this abuse against

31:14

the children they were supposed to take care of.

31:17

That's stuff we had to go through as kids.

31:20

It's unbelievable. I wouldn't even

31:22

consider my grandchildren going through

31:24

that. No. Like, put your daughter

31:27

in there. No, I can't

31:28

even imagine. My

31:30

daughter is 10 years old and hasn't been

31:32

away from us for more than a night or two in her

31:35

entire life. I don't even want

31:37

to think about her having to go to a residential

31:40

school.

31:41

Then my Uncle Bill and Auntie Lorraine

31:43

tell me that one of my dad's brothers was

31:45

sent away even before he had to go to

31:47

St. Michael's. Uncle I won

31:49

and something happened to him.

31:51

He was at Fort Sand

31:54

from three years

31:56

old.

31:59

My uncle Ivan got tuberculosis

32:02

and was sent to a sanatorium four hours

32:05

away.

32:06

At just three years old,

32:07

he had to stay there by himself.

32:09

They'd go and visit him, but he

32:13

didn't know. That's where his parents

32:15

were. They

32:17

say he forgot how to speak Cree,

32:20

and that when he got home two years later, he

32:23

didn't recognize his own family.

32:25

Ivan

32:30

was a stranger, you know? He

32:33

didn't know anybody. He didn't know anybody. I

32:36

think he had it tougher than anybody

32:38

else. Does

32:41

anybody have to come home and go to residential school?

32:44

Yeah. And he's

32:46

the one that said he got really, really

32:50

bad treatment that the residency

32:53

was sexually abused by

32:54

a priest.

32:55

Oh, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

33:02

Did he say which priest? Mm-hmm.

33:06

Is it Goji? Goji. Father

33:08

Goji. G-A-U-D-H-I-E-R. I-E-R,

33:12

yeah. Oh. What

33:14

was his first name? Father... Dylus?

33:19

Glascocia? No, I

33:21

don't know. I

33:24

forget. I don't care. Mm-hmm.

33:33

My dad wasn't the only one in his

33:35

family who was sexually abused

33:37

by a priest. His younger

33:40

brother, my uncle Ivan, was also

33:42

abused at the same school. I'm

33:46

left with the same feeling I had when I first

33:48

heard the story about my dad and the priest.

33:51

Like I can't look away. I have to do

33:53

something. I'm here as a daughter

33:56

and a niece, but also as a journalist.

33:59

And now, I know...

33:59

I know the names of two priests who

34:02

were alleged abusers at St. Michael's. Father

34:05

Gauthier, who my Uncle Ivan accused,

34:08

and Father Duhaine, who my Auntie

34:10

Margaret accused. Were

34:12

they at the school at the same time as my dad?

34:16

Did one of them abuse him?

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35:00

A Canadian journalist

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they maim or hurt or kill. White

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learn where it came from and where it's headed next.

35:27

White Hot Hate, available now on CBC

35:29

Listen and everywhere you get your podcasts.

35:37

Okay, I'm just arriving at the Provincial

35:39

Archives of Alberta, and

35:42

I'm here to look at the oblates records for

35:45

St. Michael's.

35:46

Father Gauthier

35:49

and Father Duhaime were members of the Oblates

35:51

of Mary Immaculate, an order

35:53

of Catholic priests.

35:55

The Oblates ran 48 of Canada's

35:57

residential schools, including St. Michael's.

35:59

Historically,

36:02

they've kept their residential school records private.

36:05

But survivors have been fighting for transparency

36:07

from the church and government for decades.

36:10

In recent years, the Oblates pledged

36:12

to be more open about their role in the residential

36:14

school system. They say they're working

36:17

to ensure their records are available to survivors,

36:19

their communities and families. In 2018,

36:23

the Oblates gave hundreds of thousands

36:25

of pages of their records to the provincial

36:28

archives in Alberta, making them accessible

36:30

to the public. That's where I am

36:32

now.

36:35

I said that I can record, so

36:37

I'm rolling. Before

36:40

coming here, I requested 21 boxes of records.

36:43

The archivist wheels them over on a big cart,

36:46

and I see just how many there are. Each

36:48

box is filled with file folders, which

36:51

are filled with pages and pages of documents.

36:54

I know that I can't read all of this in one

36:56

day. So my plan is to take as many

36:59

photos as I can and look through them later.

37:02

It's like a time capsule

37:04

of what went into the day-to-day running of

37:06

a residential school.

37:08

I'm looking at attendance records for over 100

37:11

years at St. Michael's. I see

37:13

family names that I recognize from Beirdies.

37:16

Gardupi, Sisukwesis, Yapays

37:19

and Gamble.

37:20

The federal government paid the Oblates

37:22

for every student that was in their care,

37:24

so the priests kept extensive

37:27

records. But

37:28

there's no mention of neglect, hungry

37:30

children, straps or abuse.

37:33

The horrors of residential school that

37:35

I heard from my aunties and uncles

37:37

aren't reflected in these pages.

37:40

But I find their names written on attendance

37:43

sheets. Ivan, Ivy,

37:46

George, Margaret, Bill. And

37:48

finally, I see my dad's name.

37:53

Howard Cameron. With

37:56

a number next to it. 829-819-821.

37:59

It's on an enrollment form dated May 5, 1961. He

38:04

was six years old.

38:06

It's heartbreaking to think of him being so

38:09

small when he was sent to the school.

38:11

And I can't help but wonder how long after

38:13

he arrived did the priest abuse him.

38:20

My dad was at St. Michael's for the 1961 to 62 school year,

38:24

and then he seems to have left.

38:26

By then, other schools had opened up nearby

38:28

that weren't residential schools. I

38:31

find my dad's name back on the St. Michael's

38:33

attendance records from 1967 to 1968.

38:38

And then when he was 13, he transferred to

38:40

LaBret, another residential

38:42

school run by the Oblates a few hours away.

38:45

He was there for a year and a half.

38:48

I asked my uncles if they thought the priest

38:50

could be from LaBret, but they said

38:52

they were treated much better there. And

38:54

one of my uncles said that my dad told him

38:56

the priest he pulled over was from

38:58

St. Michael's.

39:00

The records show my dad overlapped

39:03

with eight priests during the time

39:05

he was there,

39:06

including the two my family named,

39:08

Father Duham and Father Gauthier.

39:11

They were listed as the principal and vice

39:14

principal in 1968 when my

39:16

dad was there too.

39:18

Before coming here, I asked if they had any

39:20

files on Gauthier and Duham.

39:22

The archivist told me there are personnel files

39:25

for each of them,

39:26

but that the Oblates won't allow those to be

39:28

released until 50 years after

39:30

a priest's death for privacy reasons.

39:33

For 50 years, whatever is inside of

39:35

them will remain a secret.

39:37

Instead, the archivist hands me two manila

39:40

folders, one for Gauthier

39:42

and one for Duham.

39:44

They're filled with personal photos and mementos

39:47

collected by the Oblates and given to the

39:49

archives. OK,

39:52

this folder says, Gauthier

39:56

Father Gillis OMI.

39:59

What's inside?

39:59

looks like the contents of a drawer in someone's

40:02

desk, postcards, photos, and

40:04

keepsakes.

40:06

Father Gautier has a lot of photos of himself,

40:09

and most of them look like professional portraits or

40:11

headshots. In one of them, he's

40:13

wearing chaps and leather gloves with a

40:15

bandana tied around his neck, and

40:17

he's holding a Stetson hat. Looks like he's

40:20

in play, playing a cowboy.

40:21

Oh,

40:24

my God. What is that? A

40:26

picture of

40:28

him walking down the street giving

40:30

a piggyback to a Native

40:34

kid? It's weird. The

40:37

picture looks like it was taken in the 1970s,

40:40

Gautier's smiling at the camera.

40:43

He's not wearing a priest's collar, but

40:45

has a large silver cross dangling from

40:47

his neck,

40:48

and on his back is a teenage boy.

40:51

He looks indigenous.

40:53

I find it kind of disturbing.

40:56

It's a priest who has been accused of sexually

40:58

abusing a boy, giving another

41:00

boy a piggyback ride.

41:02

But it doesn't compare to what I find

41:05

in Father Duham's folder. This

41:07

is, it says Father Andrew, Antonio

41:10

Duham. Ah.

41:12

Father Duham's folder looks a lot like Gautier's,

41:16

except he's kept a sheet of negatives.

41:19

I can't quite make out what I'm seeing, so

41:21

I hold them up to the light. But it looks

41:23

like there's like one, two, three, four, five,

41:26

six, seven of them

41:28

getting dressed or getting undressed, including

41:31

one guy who looks like he's in his underwear. There

41:35

are two photos of teenage boys changing

41:37

in a locker room. Oh my

41:40

God. One guy looks like he's completely

41:42

naked in this picture. But

41:45

why would he take pictures of them undressing?

41:51

There's not a single mention of abuse at

41:53

St. Michael's in these archives, but

41:55

there is this picture of a naked boy

41:58

in a priest's file.

42:00

These are the records the oblates were okay

42:02

to release to the public.

42:04

And even though I set out to find an abusive

42:07

priest, I'm surprised to see

42:09

something so explicit sitting right

42:11

here in one of their files.

42:14

The records I found today

42:16

show that Father Gautier and Father Duhaim,

42:19

both alleged abusers, were

42:21

at the school at the same time as my dad.

42:24

They knew him and he knew them.

42:32

Next time on Stolen, Surviving

42:34

St. Michael's.

42:38

I've been trying to find out who

42:40

that was, you know? You don't want to, Connie.

42:43

No? No. Why? Well,

42:45

because I feel like a big part of

42:49

my understanding of residence. Because I

42:51

think I know who it is. But I know it's

42:54

not. I'm not going to say it on this

42:56

thing.

43:11

Stolen, Surviving St. Michael's is a

43:13

gimlet media and Spotify original

43:15

production. The show was hosted and

43:18

reported by me, Connie Walker. Additional

43:20

reporting by Betty Ann Adam. Producing

43:23

and reporting by Chantal Bel Richard, Max

43:26

Green and Anya Schultz. Our supervising

43:28

producer is Ellen Frankman. Our

43:30

editor is Devin Taylor.

43:32

Our consulting editor