0:01

Do you remember the day that Fara fass

0:03

had died.

0:04

I do not, and I'm ashamed, but

0:08

you.

0:08

Know it was the same day as Michael Jackson.

0:11

Was it.

0:12

I'm chatting with CNN anchor and sixty

0:15

minutes correspondent Anderson Cooper

0:18

about one of the biggest days in

0:20

the modern history of obituaries,

0:23

June twenty fifth, twenty oh nine.

0:25

I mean, now that you say it, I vague I

0:27

do recall did she die

0:30

in the morning? And then morning

0:33

it was announced that Michael Jackson died a little later

0:35

that.

0:35

Day, Michael Jackson was confirmed dead

0:37

right before the evening news broadcast on the

0:39

East Coast, so she had the full first

0:42

half of the day.

0:43

Well, I mean, as she should. I

0:45

mean, well, yeah, that's fast. I didn't

0:47

realize that that's a strange pairing.

0:50

I asked Anderson to join me today

0:53

because he not only has a real understanding

0:55

of the news cycle, but he also hosts

0:57

a podcast about death and green

1:00

called All There Is. Anderson

1:03

started working on the podcast when

1:05

he was packing up the apartment of his late

1:07

mother, the well known designer, artist

1:10

and heiress Gloria Vanderbilt.

1:13

I've lived, lost a lot, had

1:15

dreams of love and faithful encounters.

1:17

I wanted his take on why Michael

1:20

Jackson's death so completely

1:22

overshadowed Farah Fawcett's.

1:24

I think it's a combination of her

1:27

just I'm not saying it's fair, but

1:30

from a news standpoint, her

1:33

career had probably

1:36

peaud I guess she was not in the forefront

1:38

of pop culture and the public consciousness

1:41

in the way that Michael Jackson still was.

1:44

Now. Pharaoh wasn't entirely out of the

1:46

headlines in twenty oh nine. She'd

1:48

been very public about her three year battle

1:50

with cancer, but Michael

1:52

Jackson's death was a shock, a

1:55

suspicious drug overdose. The

1:57

King of Pop had even been staging a comeback

2:00

tour, and so as the afternoon

2:02

progressed, the special bulletins

2:04

came fast and furious. Pop

2:07

superstar Michael Jackson rushed to a

2:09

hospital in Los Angeles to day that.

2:11

When they arrived on scene, he was not breathing.

2:13

At three point fifteen Pacific time, Michael

2:16

Jackson, the King of Pop, was pronounced

2:19

dead. Michael Jackson had an

2:21

extraordinary career and a

2:23

troubled life, mark by incredible highs

2:26

and terrible lows.

2:28

Just from on a global scale and

2:31

the ups and downs and the controversies.

2:34

I mean, look now, Michael Jackson is still

2:36

more talked about than Farah Fosterite.

2:38

There's no Fara Foss musical on Broadway. There should

2:40

be. But yes, you know, in a friend of mine

2:42

from the New York Times, I remember at the time he said, Michael

2:44

Jackson is a story about music, about

2:46

business, about fashion, about race, about celebrity

2:49

justice, like every section of the paper.

2:51

Also, I mean there's his children, there's

2:53

the family, there's the siblings. There's

2:56

the question of possible medical malpractice.

2:59

And Michael Jackson grew up before

3:01

the cameras in a way that Farah Fawcett did

3:03

not.

3:04

The day after both of these pop culture

3:07

icons passed away, CBS's

3:09

Early Show mentioned Jackson's

3:11

name more than one hundred times.

3:14

Farah Fawcett was mentioned just

3:16

six times.

3:18

And of course we're also going to remember Farah Fawcett.

3:20

Somebody put it this way, this is the moment when Generation

3:23

X realizes they're grown up, when we

3:25

lose two icons that really

3:28

defined our generation. These people

3:30

were on our lunchbox, isn't it right?

3:32

Yeah?

3:32

It was the ultimate one two Punch yesterday

3:35

speaking which Ed McMahon died two

3:37

days before Michael Jackson and Farah

3:39

fawcet Oh really interesting, totally

3:41

ignored. Now when it comes to obituaries,

3:44

I've always been fascinated with the phenomenon

3:46

surrounding public figures who share

3:49

the same death day, Who

3:51

gets top billing and why? So

3:54

in this episode, I'm going to do something a little

3:56

different instead of focusing on just

3:58

one person, and and I,

4:01

along with some other special guests, will

4:03

look at a series of noteworthy

4:05

people who happen to have died on the

4:07

very same day as other noteworthy

4:10

people. There are, of course more

4:12

cases like Farah's where news

4:14

of one person's death gets well

4:17

buried by the death of someone else more

4:19

well known.

4:20

Of course, you're going to tell me that Charles Mansk got all the coverage,

4:22

then.

4:22

He got all the coverage. Some coincidences

4:25

seem too perfect, almost

4:28

divinely engineered. I

4:30

mean, what are the chances Thomas Jefferson

4:32

would die on the same day as John Adams

4:35

on July fourth, no less, not

4:37

just any July fourth, but

4:40

the exact fiftieth anniversary of

4:42

the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

4:45

There are cases of singular showbiz

4:47

talents turned co stars in

4:50

death.

4:50

Sammy Davis Junior died after an eight

4:53

month battle with throat cancer, and Jim

4:55

Henson Lee, creator of the Muppets, died

4:57

suddenly of what the hospital called a massive

5:00

bacterial infection.

5:02

And then you have what I call the odd

5:04

death fellows, those with seemingly

5:07

nothing in common. For example,

5:09

Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and

5:12

Mouseketeer and Nette Funicello. Can

5:14

you imagine the conversation those two had upon

5:17

arrival in the afterlife.

5:18

I don't think Margaret Thatcher would have it much to say

5:20

to a net Fonicello.

5:22

I mean each blanked

5:24

bingo from

5:27

CBS Sunday Morning, and iHeart

5:29

I'm Morocca, and this is

5:32

mobituaries, this

5:43

mobit died on the

5:45

same day.

6:09

I mean Pharah Faws. I had

6:12

her poster, her famous poster of course,

6:14

up in my room as a kid, even though I

6:17

wasn't really that interested

6:19

in her in the way that most of my friends

6:22

were interested in her.

6:23

So that poster sold twelve million

6:25

copies. And the thing that I love about it, and I

6:28

think this is probably well at least why I

6:30

loved Farah is that Apparently she

6:32

rushed through the shoot because she wanted to go play tennis.

6:35

But she was like a real person.

6:37

Yes, it's so of the time, it's

6:39

so seventies, it's so and

6:42

she's just she Yeah, she looks real.

6:45

Now, we've got a bunch of died on the same

6:47

day pairings to get to. But because

6:50

Farah got such a raw deal on the day

6:52

she died, we're going to take some time now

6:54

to give her some extra love. When

7:00

Farah posed for that nineteen seventy

7:02

six photograph wearing a red one

7:04

piece swimsuit, she became instantly

7:07

iconic. The hair, the smile,

7:10

those teeth. I mean. Tony

7:12

Manero, John Tripolta's character in

7:15

Saturday Night Fever had her poster up

7:17

on his wall. Of course he did. By

7:19

the way, Farah's feathered flip was a

7:21

TikTok fashion trend in twenty

7:24

twenty three.

7:25

Once upon a time, there were three little

7:27

girls who went to the police Academy.

7:29

Anderson Cooper and I were just kids.

7:32

When Charlie's Angels premiered in

7:34

the fall of nineteen seventy six,

7:37

it was a total sensation. It

7:39

was sexy and preposterous.

7:42

Three beautiful women who fought crime

7:44

at the behest of a man they never saw

7:46

but only heard via speakerphone.

7:50

You heard that, Charlie, everything, Sabrina,

7:52

and I've already made arrangements for you three to

7:55

go to prison.

7:56

Prison.

7:57

You've got to be kidding, Charlie.

8:00

Angels can say that again. I

8:02

loved all the angels, including kay Jackson's

8:05

Sabrina, today known as the stem

8:07

Angel, But Pharaoh was in a class

8:10

all her own. She radiated friendliness,

8:13

big dreams, and a great American

8:15

can do spirit. Jill, thanks

8:18

for everything.

8:19

You're an angel.

8:21

Yeah, that's what.

8:22

They tell me.

8:24

Sarah Lenny Fawcett was born in

8:27

Corpus Christi, Texas, in nineteen

8:29

forty seven. Farah was voted

8:31

most beautiful by her high school classmates

8:33

every year. But, and this is crucial,

8:36

she was the kind of popular girl who

8:38

was nice to everyone. I have no

8:40

proof of this. I just know this instinctually. Don't

8:43

challenge me. Sarah went to the University

8:45

of Texas at Austin to study microbiology

8:48

before switching to art. At twenty

8:50

one. With her parents' permission, she moved

8:53

to Hollywood to try her luck in the entertainment

8:55

industry. She soon appeared

8:57

on The Dating Game.

8:59

And number two.

9:01

Being from Texas, I'm used to having things

9:03

done in a big way, So how would

9:05

you make a little thing like sending me flowers really

9:07

big?

9:08

Well?

9:09

The Dating Game always fascinated me because even

9:11

as a kid watching it, I couldn't tell if it was real

9:13

or not. Did she appear as Farah Fawce's.

9:15

She appeared as Fara Faucet. She chose bachelor

9:18

number two, who was definitely the best looking one. I'm

9:20

glad she chose him, and he seemed like the most normal.

9:22

There's no way that date happened if

9:24

she was Farah Fawcett at the time, I don't believe

9:27

that that date happened.

9:28

Not surprisingly, Farah began popping

9:30

up in all sorts of commercials. It

9:33

must be said that there still has never been

9:35

an advertisement as sexy as

9:37

the TV commercial for Noxima's shaving

9:39

cream that ran during the Super Bowl

9:41

in nineteen seventy three. While

9:44

singing, Farah lathers the product

9:46

on the face of superstar quarterback

9:48

Joe Nimath. Farah

9:57

left Charlie's Angels after only one

9:59

sea. For a while, she struggled

10:02

to show that she had talent after

10:04

co starring in the comedy mystery film

10:07

Somebody Killed Her Husband. One

10:09

critic wrote, somebody killed her career,

10:12

but she didn't give up, and by the mid nineteen

10:14

eighties, Farah proved the naysayers

10:17

wrong.

10:18

You know, she had done The Burning Bed, so there had

10:20

been a revival of her and reappreciation

10:23

of her, And so she'd already gone through

10:25

the cycle of sort of rediscovery

10:28

and reappreciation.

10:29

Anderson's referring to the nineteen eighty

10:31

four TV movie The Burning Bed,

10:34

based on a true story, Farah

10:36

played a woman who fought back against

10:39

an abusive husband. TV

10:41

critic Matt Zeller Sites has called

10:43

the film a landmark, depicting

10:46

domestic violence as an unambiguous

10:48

horror and a human rights violation,

10:51

and Farah's performance one of the

10:53

finest in the history of TV movies.

10:58

You know, I'm come and go as much as I want.

11:00

Just leave Mickey. On the personal

11:02

front, her short lived marriage to six

11:05

million dollar man star Lee Majors

11:07

and long term relationship with heartthrob

11:10

Ryan O'Neil were continuous tabloid

11:12

fodder, but when Pharah was diagnosed

11:15

with anal cancer in twenty oh six,

11:17

it was her illness that made headlines.

11:20

She was suffering from anal cancer, which

11:23

no everyone wanted to talk about euphemistically.

11:25

They would just say she had cancer, but she

11:27

insisted on putting that out there because it was sort of

11:29

like an unspeakable kind of cancer. Supposedly,

11:32

Oh, that's interesting, good for her. Many

11:34

of her fans last saw her appear

11:37

in the NBC documentary Farah

11:39

Story, which intimately chronicled

11:41

her decline. It premiered on May

11:44

fifteenth, twenty oh nine, the

11:46

month before she died.

11:49

Sometimes this disease makes

11:51

me feel like a stranger to myself,

11:55

like ablon nothingness, alone

12:02

inside a body that once was

12:04

mine, but that has been damaged

12:06

by radiation, chemo and all

12:08

those drugs necessary.

12:10

For me to live. Now

12:15

in twenty oh nine, Michael Jackson

12:17

was bound to overshadow anybody

12:19

who might have died on the same day. But

12:21

forty six years earlier, there was a day

12:24

when the world all but stopped

12:26

spinning.

12:27

There is a bulletin from CBS News

12:29

in Dallas, Texas. Three shots were

12:32

fired at President Kennedy's motorcade

12:34

in downtown Dallas. The first

12:36

reports say that President Kennedy has

12:38

been seriously wounded by

12:40

this shooting from Dallas, Texas. The flash

12:43

apparently official President Kennedy

12:46

died at one pm

12:48

Central Standard Time.

12:52

If you're of a certain age, you will

12:54

never forget where you were on November

12:57

twenty second, nineteen sixty three,

13:00

day that President John F. Kennedy was

13:02

assassinated, which means,

13:04

though you may not realize it, you will

13:06

never forget the day theologian

13:09

C. S. Lewis, author of the

13:11

Chronicles of Narnia, met his maker.

13:13

Every stick and stone you see every

13:16

icicle is Narnia.

13:20

Or the day writer and philosopher

13:22

Aldus Huxley gave up the ghost.

13:25

As searing social critic.

13:26

Mister Huxley wrote Brave New World,

13:29

a novel that predicted that someday the

13:31

entire world would live under a frightful

13:33

dictatorship.

13:34

Yes, all three men, John

13:37

F. Kennedy, C. S. Lewis, and

13:39

Aldus Huxley died on

13:41

the very same day.

13:44

That's so interesting. I just was

13:47

trying to read an Aldus hux lady small

13:49

book about his experiences

13:52

taking I want to say it's peyote,

13:54

but I don't think it's paoti. It's mescaline. Mescaline

13:57

yes, and I tried. I was really excited

13:59

to read it, and I started it, and I just

14:01

found it so dull.

14:03

That I thought you were going to say, found it so trippy.

14:06

No, I just found it so dull.

14:09

And that's interesting because I just read C. S. Lewis

14:13

his book about the death of his wife, and

14:15

it's really it's an incredibly

14:17

touching book.

14:18

I wonder there are people, probably

14:21

fans of those authors who never realized

14:24

they died.

14:25

That's I'm sure that's true,

14:27

or certainly you know it took them a year to

14:29

find out that they had died. Even

14:32

globally, I mean, there's no way the

14:34

assassination of President Kennedy on

14:36

that day, there's no way anybody else

14:38

would get any airtime.

14:40

Well, Huxley's obit showed up two days

14:42

later in the paper on the twenty fourth of November,

14:45

and then it took yet another day for

14:47

C. S. Lewis, who had actually been the first of the three

14:49

to die that day. His death was reported

14:52

on November twenty fifth. That same

14:54

day, though the headline

14:56

was the death of Oswalt the murder of him by

14:58

Jack Rubin. He sort of got double

15:01

a clipse.

15:02

Wow. I mean It's

15:04

extraordinary when you think about

15:06

the impact that C. S. Lewis had with

15:09

all his books, and beloved he

15:11

was, and yet it's

15:13

the vagary of the day. I

15:15

mean, it makes no you know. I've

15:17

been on airplanes with a

15:20

couple of famous people, and

15:23

I remember one time thinking,

15:25

if this plane goes down, the

15:27

headline is going to be that person was on the plane

15:31

and four others, and I would be one of the four others.

15:33

I think that you'd either get below the fold

15:35

on a one, or you'd at least get the little reefer,

15:38

the little go to box.

15:39

First of all, thank you for having thought of this. Well,

15:43

no, I just you know, I think you have to. You're plotting

15:45

my death as I came in here today. Where

15:49

would I stack up. You're talking about a

15:51

front page. I would not be on the front page.

15:53

Oh we go on a plane with the queen.

15:55

I'm not going to say.

15:57

As a member of the storied Vanderbilt

15:59

family, Anderson is aware of the role

16:01

that social class used to play

16:03

on the Obitz page.

16:05

When my great uncle Alfred

16:07

Vanderbilt died on the Lusitania, which

16:09

was sunk by the Germans prior

16:11

to the US involvement in World War One. His name

16:14

was in the headlines

16:17

of the announcement of the Lusitania

16:19

being torpedoed. You know, Alfred

16:22

Vanderbilt doesn't survive, which

16:24

is interesting given the

16:27

number of people on board that ship. And I

16:30

don't think I don't think that would happen today.

16:32

Well, and this was in the New York Times, right, New York Times.

16:34

Well, okay, And because the New York Times, especially then

16:37

and for a long time, sort of

16:39

deferred very much to establishment families.

16:41

Well, I should also say I'm working a book about

16:43

the Asters and Jack Aster when

16:45

he died on the Titanic, the

16:48

Astor name was very prominent

16:50

in the headline.

16:51

Well, speaking of which, February

16:54

fourth, nineteen fifty nine, on

16:56

page sixty six, way back in the

16:58

paper, the headline reads

17:01

three singers who died in crash

17:03

of chartered plane, and there

17:05

are pictures here. They are Buddy Holly,

17:08

Big Bopper and Richie Vallence.

17:10

This is the so called day the music

17:12

died.

17:13

The three singers that appeared at the Surf.

17:14

Ballroom in clear Like Iowa last night, and.

17:16

We're on the way to Fargo, North Dakota.

17:19

This is page sixty six.

17:22

Right.

17:22

However, there is another

17:25

death on page A one that day,

17:27

and it is if you can see right

17:29

there.

17:30

Wow, it was at Vincent

17:33

Astor dies in his home

17:35

at sixty seventy. I had dropped out of a heart attack in

17:37

his home.

17:38

Wow.

17:39

I mean Vincent Astro had been

17:41

one of the richest men in America since he inherited

17:44

the money from Jack Astro when Jack Astro

17:46

died on the Titanic. But

17:50

I don't think today that

17:52

person would be on the front page. I think the

17:55

Buddy Holly, the Richie Vallens,

17:57

and the big Bopper would be right.

17:59

I think that's right. I think the criteria has

18:02

changed, has changed.

18:03

Love like yours will silly

18:06

come by.

18:10

We're going to do a quiz now. On November

18:12

nineteenth, twenty seventeen, two

18:15

very different figures died on the

18:17

same day. The first became best

18:19

known for her television roles, but began

18:22

her career as a jazz and gospel

18:24

singer, releasing her biggest hit, Don't

18:27

You Know in nineteen fifty nine.

18:30

Here's a little bit.

18:30

Of a.

18:40

I have fallen in love with

18:42

these.

18:44

Right, did a little hard So I'm going to give you a couple of other clues.

18:47

She became very big in the nineteen

18:49

nineties on a Sunday night inspirational

18:52

CBS hour long drama. She had

18:55

been big in the nineteen fifties and then in the seventies

18:57

she was on the sitcom Chico and the Man.

19:00

If you don't come to that meeting, somebody

19:03

is just liable to report this greasy

19:05

old.

19:06

Garage as a fire hazard.

19:08

Why this is some kind of black mail.

19:10

Well, it ain't.

19:11

White male baby.

19:14

That's Dela Reice. Touched by

19:16

an Angel?

19:18

Right.

19:18

So she died on November

19:20

nineteenth, twenty seventeen, and

19:23

she had a really interesting life. She toured with Mahelia

19:25

Jackson when she was thirteen years old, so she had its

19:27

great career as a singer before she was on the

19:29

sitcom and then Untouched by an Angel. By

19:32

the way, Untouched my Angel, I never understood,

19:35

like Roma Downey was

19:37

this angel that would go around and

19:39

I think Delice was like

19:41

her supervisor or something.

19:43

Don't you raise your voice to me, miss Wings,

19:46

you.

19:46

Got a little pride thing going on yourself.

19:49

I watched a lot of TV, but like Touched

19:52

by Angel probably was not something Every morning I

19:55

was looking a little darker, Yeah, a

19:57

little mer dystopian.

19:59

Murder. She wrote,

20:01

Well, I mean, I mean, every every week

20:04

someone dies in this tiny town in Maine. That's

20:06

pretty dark. Anyway. On that same

20:08

day, November nineteenth, twenty seventeen,

20:10

another person who was decidedly

20:13

not touched by an angel died. He

20:16

also began his career in music.

20:18

Ah, those real look

20:21

at your game, Look

20:26

at your game.

20:30

What a mad delusion.

20:33

Let's stop that now and then, because

20:35

there's no way, there's no way you're gonna get

20:37

this. I'll just give you a clue. He was a psychopathic

20:39

killer.

20:40

And well, I was gonna say, is he a serial that's so

20:42

funny. I was going to say, just from that thing,

20:44

I was like, is that like a recording made in

20:46

prison by a serial killer?

20:48

It was a recording made before this

20:50

killer went to prison, and he was in

20:52

charge of a family.

20:54

That Charles Manson.

20:55

Yes, Oh my gosh, Charles Manson

20:57

delay. This just got really dark, really

21:00

dark. And I understand the

21:02

fascination or that there was a fascination

21:04

with Charles Manson.

21:05

Of course you're going to tell me that Charles Manson got all the coverage,

21:07

He.

21:08

Got all the covers in New York Times. He was on a

21:10

one. Delriice was on a nineteen. The

21:12

Chicago Tribune put Charles Manson

21:15

on the front page. They gave nothing to Dela

21:17

Resee. The La Times made Dela Reice wait a day.

21:19

I was probably on the air that day, And if

21:22

I don't recall what I did, but I would imagine

21:25

faced with those two,

21:29

I.

21:29

Mean, go with God, go with the

21:31

Angel.

21:32

I mean, I think you have to go with Charles Manson,

21:34

maybe like a reader of

21:36

like, you know, del Reice died, but

21:40

to at least give her some props, yes,

21:42

but you know, and maybe

21:44

play a clip from I mean

21:46

again, it's unfair, but just in terms

21:48

of like foremost

21:51

in people's consciousness and the

21:53

nightmares of generations of people and

21:55

knowing that this person is no longer out

21:58

there.

21:59

How would you do that transition?

22:00

Though?

22:01

Well, I'm not going to do them close together, not

22:03

going to do a four minute piece on Charles

22:05

Manson. Then be like, oh, in Dela Reste, well.

22:08

Or would you say we lost Ella

22:10

Reese today and in much darker.

22:12

Us No, or you would not at all

22:15

link them together.

22:16

Well, if you say somebody that we're actually sorry,

22:19

we lost.

22:19

Why no, why are you insisting on putting these

22:21

two together? What is your vendetta

22:24

against Dela Reo?

22:25

No?

22:25

No, no, I actually have her greatest hits. I

22:27

really do. But I'm just thinking

22:29

if you want the broadcast to

22:31

have some cohesion and so, no,

22:34

and then and then later on we'll all be

22:36

touched by an angel. No, we don't do that. We wait.

22:38

I would not also make a you've

22:41

made now to touch by an angel

22:43

sort of puns. I would not do a touch by

22:45

an angel pun either. You said

22:47

someone who is definitely not touched by an angel?

22:50

Right, was not a which was a clever transition,

22:52

but not when I wouldn't get but I would That's

22:54

not what I would have used in a broadcast, like coming

22:57

up.

22:57

Or something subtler, a passing that

22:59

is touched all of us. You

23:03

could do that and then people won't know and then afterwards.

23:06

It was a very popular show. And she sang the

23:09

theme song as well.

23:10

Oh I didn't know that.

23:13

I need all the

23:15

time.

23:16

I January

23:21

seventeenth, twenty eight chess master

23:23

Bobby Fisher, who then became

23:25

a paranoid anti Semmi, and Alan

23:28

Melvin Alvin Melvin

23:30

Sam the Butcher from The Rady Bunch.

23:32

Oh, Sam Alice's boyfriend.

23:36

Sam.

23:37

It's me Alice.

23:39

That's what I said, Sam.

23:43

Alice's boyfriend. And what

23:45

happened to Butcher's like there there.

23:48

You don't you don't see the you don't see Butcher's

23:50

It's true.

23:51

Bobby Fisher in The New York Times

23:54

A one at the Bottom, nothing

23:56

on Alan Melvin. Alan Melvin

23:58

was on be sick in the Washington

24:01

Post four days after he died.

24:03

Okay, I mean, I don't know

24:05

what to say.

24:07

July eighth, nineteen ninety four. Dick

24:10

Sergeant, the second actor

24:12

to play Darren in the nineteen sixties

24:14

sitcom Bewitched, Good Morning

24:16

in Dora, How Nice You Dropped

24:19

In? And North Korea's founding

24:21

dictator Kim Il sung die

24:24

on the same day.

24:25

North Korea Tonight announced a nine day

24:27

period of mourning for the only leader

24:29

it's ever had, Dictator Kim El Sung

24:32

dead at eighty two.

24:34

That was a tough one for us of who

24:36

do we? Who do we? Who we

24:38

cover?

24:39

But you know, here's the thing. I feel

24:41

so bad for Dick Sergeant because it's tough

24:43

enough being the second Darren. Because everyone

24:45

knows the first Daron dick Yorick was a better Darren,

24:48

although Dick Sargent later came out

24:50

and became a gay rights advocate and was apparently

24:52

a lovely, lovely guy. But to be overshadowed

24:54

on that though that one day you expect

24:56

all the attention, right A

25:00

that's genocidal maniac.

25:02

Takes it from you, takes it from you. Don't

25:04

try to spare my feelings.

25:06

There's one thing I can't stand at someone feeling sorry

25:08

for me. Fun fact. Dick

25:10

Sargent's first film role was

25:13

a bit part in nineteen fifty four's Prisoner

25:15

of War about Americans in

25:18

a North Korean pow camp

25:20

who knew coming

25:25

up after the break some downright spooky

25:28

coincidences and some

25:30

very odd death fellows.

25:48

Fifty years to the day after the declaration

25:50

of Independence, having said all he

25:53

had to say to us, which was enough,

25:56

Thomas Jefferson died on this bed

25:59

a freeman on

26:01

that same day.

26:03

A few hours later, away to the north

26:05

in Massachusetts, John Adams,

26:07

also old and weak, also

26:09

satisfied to have lived until the fourth

26:13

also died. His

26:15

last words were, Thomas Jefferson

26:18

still lives.

26:20

That's so crazy that they died in the same

26:22

day.

26:22

I mean, I'm talking with Anders and Cooper

26:25

about famous people dying on the same

26:27

day. It doesn't get much eerier

26:29

than two founding fathers meeting

26:32

their creator on the very day

26:34

the nation they had helped birth turned

26:37

fifty.

26:38

And wasn't Adams's son, the

26:40

president.

26:41

John Quincy Adams.

26:42

So I wonder had

26:44

I been on the air that day, hypothetically,

26:48

like the coverage, what would you do, Like if television

26:51

had been around, both would probably

26:53

get equal. But because his

26:55

son is the current president, his

26:57

son would come out and make like some sort

26:59

of blick statement and stuff, So Adams

27:02

might that might push Adams up

27:05

above Jefferson.

27:06

Yep.

27:07

I think that's absolutely right.

27:08

Because he would hold maybe a live press event

27:11

and you would take the whole thing.

27:14

You have to say, the whole thing, and he would

27:16

give I mean, he would do a lot about his dad. He would

27:18

definitely do a head nod to Jefferson and a lot about

27:20

Jefferson. But John Quincy Adams is

27:22

going to speak live in a minute, We're

27:24

obviously going to take this live. That would be twenty

27:26

minutes, and then.

27:29

Van Jones, what do you think and

27:32

we're back with the panel. But you know, this

27:34

was considered a big deal the fiftieth anniversary

27:37

of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It's not

27:39

something we just looked back at.

27:40

Now.

27:41

Do you think that a

27:44

person can hold on to

27:46

die on a

27:49

day like that?

27:49

I do think that. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, I

27:51

don't have any actual evidence for that, but yeah,

27:54

I mean it seems first of all, too

27:56

coincidental

27:58

in that way. But but yeah,

28:00

I do believe people can hold

28:02

on or decide

28:05

like I'm ready. And

28:08

maybe maybe they did, one of them, or maybe

28:10

just one of them did the other. It just happened to be that

28:12

day. That one seems particularly

28:15

too coincidental. I mean, what

28:17

are the chances of that?

28:18

Do you know?

28:19

What's so cute is that James Monroe

28:21

died five years later to the

28:23

day, So he died on the fifty fifth anniversary.

28:26

Yeah, on July fourth, eighteen thirty

28:29

one. And it just is I wonder if he

28:31

was like, hey, guys, I want to be me

28:33

too. I want to be in the club. But not

28:36

really another

28:42

historic coincidence. November

28:44

tenth, nineteen sixty two, Former

28:47

First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt

28:50

and Lillian Cross, the

28:52

woman who decades earlier foiled

28:54

an assassination attempt on Frank

28:56

Lindelano Roosevelt, are buried

28:59

on the same day, a.

29:01

Final tribute to Eleanor Roosevelt,

29:04

distinguished Lady of our times.

29:08

Back in nineteen thirty three, the

29:10

five foot four, one hundred pound

29:12

Missus Cross was watching the

29:14

then President elect deliver

29:17

a speech in Miami. When she

29:19

noticed the even shorter Giuseppe

29:21

Zanngara aiming a gun at Roosevelt.

29:24

She grabbed him by the arm.

29:27

I knew he was shooting at the President, so

29:29

my first thought was to get the foot club in

29:31

the as so it wouldn't hurt any.

29:33

Of the bastin. Because

29:36

of her heroics, FDR was

29:38

spared and the bullet instead killed

29:40

Chicago Mayor Anton Sermak. So

29:45

we've talked about pairings that sort of seemed

29:48

to go together, but what about

29:50

pairs that don't seem to have anything

29:52

in common, like Pope

29:54

Benedict the sixteenth and Pointer

29:56

sister Anita Pointer. Then there's

29:58

Whitewater Prosecute, Ken Starr

30:01

and French New Wave director Jean Luc

30:03

Cadard, who were both left breathless

30:05

on the same day. Ditto character

30:08

actor Rip Torn and third

30:10

party presidential candidate Ross Perot,

30:13

who was himself a pretty great character.

30:15

Now whose fault is there?

30:17

Not the Democrats, not Republicans.

30:19

Somewhere out there, there's an extraterrestrial that's

30:21

doing this to us. I guess these

30:24

kinds of pairings are what I call odd

30:26

death fellows. For this special

30:28

category, I turned to two veteran

30:31

obituary writers whom I met

30:33

at twenty nineteen's Obit Khan. Yes,

30:36

Obit Khan think comic con but

30:38

for obituary writers. Ka

30:41

Powell spent fifteen years at

30:43

the Atlanta Journal Constitution and

30:46

is known in the biz as the Doyenne

30:48

of Death. John Pope

30:50

is a fifty year veteran of the business,

30:53

penning obits, most notably for

30:55

the New Orleans Times Picayune. Both

30:58

are fluent in the euphemisms used

31:00

to eulogize the dead.

31:04

Passed on, join God's

31:06

Heaven, require or my favorite, the

31:08

lights went out.

31:09

Lady fran means

31:13

well or prostitute

31:15

or raconteur is

31:18

a boring storyteller.

31:20

A racontry, a boring storyteller in an

31:22

obituary, Yes, racus.

31:24

Racus means loud drunk.

31:27

Naturally, I thought they'd be the perfect duo

31:29

to talk about this next combination of

31:32

famous figures. April eighth,

31:34

twenty thirteen, Former British

31:37

Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher dies

31:39

on the very same day as former

31:41

mouseketeer and star of Beach Blanket

31:44

Bingo A net Funaicello age

31:50

age brag. Now,

31:52

can either of you give our listeners a sense

31:54

of how big a deal a net Funaicello

31:57

was.

31:57

Any boy who grew up in the nineteen fifties

31:59

much Mickey Mouse Club was

32:02

just head over heels in love with Annette.

32:04

Pine too twift our MOCKI

32:06

dial to the right and left were

32:09

the great big smile. This is

32:11

the way we get to see a

32:14

mouse cartoon.

32:15

For you and me, well,

32:17

as a woman of that era,

32:21

the most influential was Beach

32:24

Blanket Bingo

32:27

and her two piece bathing

32:29

suit. Really couldn't call it a bikini. It

32:32

was a two piece bathing suit, which

32:34

I did have osa.

32:43

Well, you didn't mention this detail

32:45

about an that footagellow swimsuit.

32:47

She didn't show her navel because Walt Disney didn't

32:50

want to.

32:50

And I wouldn't either because we were

32:53

ladies. John, she

32:55

didn't have to be told that.

32:58

For people who are familiar with Vanessa Dudgeons

33:00

right from high school musical or Selena

33:02

Gomez, you know, Anette Funicello was

33:05

probably orders of magnitude bigger

33:07

than those. She became even more beloved

33:10

after struggling for years with MS

33:12

and really advocating for others. Now,

33:14

as for the obituary coverage, Margaret

33:17

Thatcher got more attention. I wonder

33:19

if news organizations struggled

33:21

to balance who they thought they should prioritize

33:25

versus who the audience wanted to hear more about.

33:27

What do you all think?

33:28

No, they knew it

33:31

would be Margaret Thatcher.

33:33

Yeah, Thatcher had been out on a limelight, but she did

33:35

lead a nation for better or worse.

33:38

In the aftermath of Thatcher's death,

33:40

protesters in the UK began an online

33:42

campaign to propel the song Ding

33:44

Dong the Witch Is Dead from The Wizard

33:46

of Oz to the number one position on British

33:48

iTunes. I wonder how

33:51

do you handle the situation as an

33:53

obit writer when the figure you're writing about

33:55

has a complicated legacy, a

33:58

legacy that polarizes people

34:01

you.

34:01

Write it, you tell the story,

34:03

you.

34:03

Tell the truth. Yeah, it's a news

34:06

story and that's

34:08

part of the news.

34:10

January thirtieth, nineteen

34:12

forty eight, The New.

34:13

Delhi, India Radio has just been

34:16

heard reporting that Mohandas Gandhi has

34:18

been fatally shot.

34:19

Mahatma Gandhi, the great

34:21

Liberator of India, is slain

34:24

on the same day that Orville

34:26

Wright, the co inventor of the airplane,

34:28

dies here at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.

34:31

This primitive kite made aviation history.

34:34

Now, obviously Gandhi

34:37

dominated that day banner headline,

34:40

but Orville Wright was also on the

34:42

front page below the fold of

34:44

most major newspapers. This

34:46

makes sense, right.

34:48

I I think if I look

34:50

at it over the long haul, to

34:54

me, we're looking at two people

34:57

whose contributions

34:59

are equal and affecting

35:01

the entire world forever.

35:05

Now, it had been forty four years

35:07

since that first flight at Kitty Hawk

35:10

when Orville Wright died, and it

35:12

had been thirty six years since his older

35:14

brother Wilbur had died. I

35:16

suppose that accounts for how much less

35:18

coverage Orvill Wright got on that day. But

35:21

you do make the point that flying,

35:23

I mean, it's an unimaginable legacy.

35:26

Gandhi, I mean, Gandhi founded a nation, and

35:28

there was also the drama of his death orvil

35:31

Wright was thought of as more of a part of a pair.

35:34

I mean, I'm sorry that he died, but he

35:38

was old and he didn't die as

35:40

dramatically as Gandhi.

35:42

And being part of a pair, maybe

35:45

the power of his passing is diminished,

35:49

like by a fraction of half.

35:51

Oh easily. Absolutely. I

35:54

wasn't around when either Lewis or Clark

35:57

died, so I can't vouch for the coverage their

35:59

death's got like that.

36:02

September twenty eighth, twenty oh three,

36:05

tennis pioneer ALTHEA. Gibson and

36:07

director Elia Kazan both

36:10

died now. Kazan

36:12

was one of the most honored and influential directors

36:15

in Broadway in Hollywood history.

36:20

He was most famous for his Broadway

36:22

productions A Street Car Named Desire and Death

36:24

of a Salesman, and for his movies On the

36:26

Waterfront and East of Eden. Personally,

36:29

I love tree grows in Brooklyn.

36:31

They didn't have any right to kill it, did they, Papa?

36:35

Oh No, wait a minute, they didn't

36:37

kill it.

36:38

Why they couldn't kill that three. He

36:40

was controversial. In his nineteen fifty

36:42

two testimony before the House on

36:44

American Activities Committee, Kazan

36:47

named the names of eight others who had been members

36:49

of the Communist Party with him. Althea

36:52

Gibson was a legendary tennis

36:54

player who broke color barriers in

36:56

the sport as a young woman. She

36:58

was the first africa An American tennis

37:00

player, female or male, to

37:03

win a Grand Slam title.

37:05

After Wimbledon, New York or

37:07

Native City welcome to her hall with

37:09

a ticker tape parade up Broadway.

37:14

I would have never thought that, coming

37:17

from the streets

37:19

of New York playing paddle tennis,

37:22

that I would be one who would have

37:24

the opportunity to shake the hand of

37:27

Queen Elizabeth.

37:29

She was the first black tennis player to

37:31

compete in the US National Championships,

37:33

the precursor to the US Open, and then

37:35

in golf, she became the first black

37:37

woman on the LPGA Tour. They

37:40

both had a lot of coverage. Kazanne

37:43

got more coverage, so in the New York Times,

37:45

Kazan edged out Althea Gibson

37:48

in the Chicago Tribune. In the LA Times,

37:51

they were fairly

37:53

equal. You know, Kazan was

37:55

a heavyweight, but Gibson was a major.

37:58

First. Did newspapers

38:01

get this one right?

38:02

Well, if you go by recent fame

38:05

slash notoriety, Kazan

38:07

had gotten back into the

38:09

spotlight a couple of years earlier when he was

38:12

given an honorary Oscar and

38:15

people were furious because this man who

38:17

had named names was

38:19

getting an award.

38:20

I would have probably given

38:24

her more coverage for the

38:26

groundbreaking things that she did

38:29

and the variety of accomplishments

38:32

she had.

38:34

October third, nineteen sixty seven,

38:36

Two very different cultural figures left

38:38

us that very day. Here is

38:41

the first.

38:42

This land is your land, and

38:44

this land is my land.

38:47

From California to

38:49

the New York.

38:50

Island, from the Redwood

38:53

Forest and the Gulf Stream

38:55

waters.

38:57

This land was made for you and

38:59

me.

39:00

Okay. That's American folk singer Woody

39:03

Guthrie. Of course, he died from Huntington's

39:05

disease at fifty five. It wasn't

39:07

front page news, but it was the leading obituary

39:10

in most major papers. Now

39:12

here's the voice of the other big

39:14

entertainer who died that day.

39:16

Does follow me?

39:18

Bozo the Clown and I'll take you Dousey

39:20

Kurt's home.

39:24

This is indeed the original Bozo the

39:26

Clown, played by the actor Pinto

39:29

Colvig. Ultimately, there were many different

39:31

Bosos depending on where you lived, but

39:33

the very first was Pinto Colvig.

39:37

Any thoughts on the contrast between

39:39

Woody Guthrie and Boso.

39:41

Couldn't be more different. I mean, Woody

39:43

Guthrie was of the people and

39:45

Boso performed his whole career

39:48

in clown makeup. No one I couldn't

39:50

tell you what he looked like.

39:51

Let me also add that Colvig Pinto

39:53

Colvig, was the original voice of Disney's

39:56

Goofy and Pluto

39:58

the Dog. Colvig a also voiced

40:00

the bearded muscleman, Blue Doo and

40:02

Popeye. And it's interesting because I used to always confuse

40:05

Pluto and Blueto, even though

40:07

they are very different characters.

40:10

Oh that I am, okay,

40:13

have it my way.

40:17

I would think that John

40:21

sort of hit on it with the anonymity

40:24

of who is Boso? He

40:27

had an appeal on one level.

40:30

Would he go through who was kind of more

40:33

political? The themes

40:35

of his songs could

40:37

be divisive, but clowns

40:40

are rarely divisive unless

40:42

you're afraid they're going to eat you, so you

40:44

don't sleep right.

40:46

There's that you're talking with someone

40:48

who dated the first female graduate of Ringling's

40:50

Clown College.

40:52

Is that true?

40:54

Yes, her name is Peggy Williams. She

40:56

is in the Clown Hall of Fame.

40:58

That's really exciting. Was dating her a lot

41:01

of fun.

41:02

She had this habit because

41:04

of her training. Whenever we'd go to dinner, I would

41:06

say something kind of a music and she would react. She

41:08

was playing to the second balcony. So

41:10

it's kind of scary.

41:16

When we've crossed over to the other

41:18

side of the break more with Anderson

41:20

Cooper. We're

41:30

back with Anderson Cooper and a game I

41:32

call above the fold. Below

41:34

the fold New York Times edition. For

41:38

those of you who still remember what a newspaper

41:40

looks like. The top half of the front

41:42

page is above the fold, where

41:44

the really big news goes. The

41:47

bottom half of a one is below the

41:49

fold, where the still big, just

41:51

not quite as big news goes. Okay,

41:54

I'm obsessed with this, even though no one under the age

41:56

of fifty notes that this means, right.

41:58

I actually still get a newspaper. Dillar.

42:00

Okay, right, so above the fault, below the fault. These

42:02

are all a one.

42:03

O bets, oh, these were all a

42:05

one.

42:06

Yeah.

42:06

So I think my mom was below the fold.

42:09

She was, yeah, she was blow the full she was yeah,

42:11

but she was a one. She was a one.

42:14

Yeh yeah, which is great. I mean, it's great to have a mom

42:16

who's on a one. It's cool, Babe

42:19

Ruth above the vault or below the fault, above

42:21

the fault. He's above Jackie Robinson

42:24

above the fault, below the fault. And that I

42:27

think is the most egregious error here. Incredible,

42:29

that's pretty bad. Yeah, that they put in below the fault.

42:31

What year was that?

42:32

That was in nineteen seventy two,

42:34

October twenty fifth.

42:36

I'm sure it was still a pretty all

42:38

white news room. Maybe, I don't know.

42:40

I mean, there's more sensitivity I would, I would think

42:43

now, and that Jackie

42:45

Robinson, who was such a Titanic figure,

42:48

would be above the fault, okay, Judy

42:50

Garland.

42:50

Above the fault, below the fault. Really

42:53

no, it's crazy.

42:54

June twenty third, nineteen sixty nine. She obviously

42:56

died the day before.

42:57

I cannot believe that she was well. Where was Stone

43:00

World?

43:00

Wasn't mentioned now

43:03

the New York Times, I mean a different

43:05

days. I thank you, but she's below the fault,

43:08

luci O ball.

43:11

Well, I mean, if they messed up with Judy

43:13

Garland, I'd say, below the fold.

43:15

You're absolutely right about that. Richard

43:18

Rogers, great composer, below

43:21

the fault, above the fold. Wow,

43:24

Oscar Hammerstein, the lyricist

43:27

below the fold, below the fold, which

43:29

is really this is like part of of what I think. It's like the New York

43:32

Times, long running anti lyricist bias's.

43:35

Always there, always

43:37

identify that it's true, and I'm that's

43:40

going to be my cause.

43:46

I inherited my love of obituaries

43:48

from my father. He always said that the obits

43:50

were his favorite part of the newspaper. It's

43:53

probably because my father had a deep appreciation

43:56

for the romance of life. I

43:58

know that sounds strange, but a good O

44:00

bit captures that the highs

44:02

and lows of a person's life in just

44:05

a few inches. To put it another

44:07

way, a good oh bit has the dramatic

44:09

sweep of a movie trailer for an

44:11

Oscar winning biopeck, the

44:14

kind of movie that Golden Age director

44:16

Cecil B. De Mill would make all.

44:19

Right, mister demil, I'm ready for my close up.

44:22

Incidentally, Cecil B. De Mill died

44:24

on the same day as Carl Switzer

44:27

aka Alfalfa from The Little Rascals.

44:35

How do you ask that warrior?

44:39

Thank you very much. You're not so

44:41

bad yourself.

44:43

I would like to watch The Little Rascals again

44:45

to see if it holds up, because I still don't

44:47

remember what the whole concept was.

44:49

Who were these little rascals and where

44:51

they how do they get that way?

44:53

A great question Anderson and One will

44:55

hopefully address on a future episode. But

44:58

for now, let's talk about a pair of Hollywood

45:00

royalty who both departed

45:03

this realm on October tenth,

45:05

nineteen eighty five. Yule Brenner,

45:08

famous as the King and the King and.

45:10

I, when I shall said, you shall sit, and

45:12

I shall neil, you shall nil at

45:15

sea.

45:17

And Orson Wells, the director

45:19

and star of Citizen Kane.

45:28

Orson Wells, died of natural causes at his

45:30

home in Hollywood.

45:31

He was seventy.

45:32

And El Brenner died here in New York after

45:34

a long battle with lung cancer.

45:36

He was sixty five.

45:37

I met Eul Brenner as a kid. I

45:40

loved the King and I and I loved Eel Brenner

45:42

and being in his dressing room and him going like

45:45

etcetera, etcetera, and

45:47

the whole thing. He was Yule Brenner like. It was

45:49

exactly what you would want eul Brenner

45:51

to do, right, he was the King on stage

45:53

and off, on stage and off. Incredible.

45:56

But I think my I mean, my mom went out

45:58

to Hollywood when she was like sixteen seven

46:00

and Shenner. She absolutely

46:02

would have known that you'l Brenner.

46:04

Yes, did she know Orson Wells?

46:06

So there is a rumor that

46:08

my mom had an affair with Orson Wells,

46:11

which I just read online.

46:12

Can I ask, if your mother did

46:15

have an affair with Orson Wells, was it Citizen

46:18

Kane, Orson Wells or Paul Mason Wine.

46:20

Outweels It would

46:22

have been Citizen Kane. I mean, please, My mom

46:24

had an affair with Marlon Brando, and it was like on

46:26

the waterfront of Marlon Brando, wasn't It wasn't apocalypse

46:28

now, Marlon. I mean, give

46:31

my mom some credit. So Orson

46:33

Wells and Yuel Brenner died on the same

46:35

day.

46:35

Yes, Now there's a split on TV. Yule

46:38

Brenner got top billing.

46:40

Okay, in print, and this sort of makes

46:42

sense to me. Orson Wells very much got

46:45

top billing there because

46:47

I think in print they were honoring sort of the importance

46:49

of Orson Wells, even though it had been decades,

46:52

I think forty five years since Citizen Kane.

46:55

They felt it was important to honor that. But

46:57

yul Brenner had been touring very recently. I brought

46:59

my grandmother actually to see his very last

47:01

tour in the King and I in Washington, DC,

47:04

and he'd had a sixty minutes profile and

47:07

I don't know if you remember this. He didn't

47:09

add that aired posthumously.

47:12

First about cancer ladies

47:15

and gentlemen, the late Yule Brenner.

47:18

I really wanted to make a commercial

47:20

when I discovered that I was that sick and

47:24

my time was so limited, I wanted

47:26

to make that commercials it says

47:28

simply Now that I'm gone,

47:30

I tell you don't smoke.

47:32

Do you remember that.

47:33

I do remember that. I do remember that.

47:35

That was a big deal.

47:36

Yeah.

47:37

This is what's interesting to me. The

47:39

people alive would

47:42

have remembered, probably foremost in their minds

47:44

about Orson welles at that time. The pal Masan wine

47:46

add.

47:47

The taste is smooth, flavorful, delicious.

47:51

Porma San wines taste so good because

47:53

they made with such care.

47:55

What Farmasan said nearly a century ago.

47:57

Is still true today.

47:59

We will sell wine the

48:01

first time.

48:03

We will sell no wine before its time.

48:05

Always annoyed me because it's a false rhyme. Wine

48:08

and time.

48:08

Do not rhyme.

48:09

That's what bothered you about it. Kind of did well,

48:13

that's what bothered okay. As a childer

48:16

child, I loved Paumas on wine. May

48:19

sixteenth, nineteen ninety Sammy

48:21

Davis Junior and Jim

48:23

Henson.

48:26

Wow, see that's

48:28

that's big.

48:29

The memories of Sammy Davis Junior and Jim

48:31

Henson topped the news this morning. The

48:33

head of Henson's production company says Henson

48:35

took our breath away as a talent and

48:38

provided laughter and love as a

48:40

friend. Frank Sinatra

48:42

calls Sammy Davis Junior a class act

48:44

and the best friend the man could have.

48:47

They're like the Adage and Jefferson of entertainment.

48:50

That is big. Sammy Davis Junior

48:52

had been sick for a while, hadn't.

48:53

He had been sick, and they'd had this really amazing

48:56

special on television

48:59

where all these stars paid tribute to him,

49:01

and Gregory Hines got up and tap dance with

49:03

him at the end. He wasn't expected to because he was so

49:06

sick. And then Jim Henson was

49:08

a shocker.

49:09

I don't I don't remember him. I mean I

49:11

remember his death. I don't remember what it

49:13

was.

49:14

It was a pneumonia. I think

49:16

for a time people thought, oh, it was just a euphemism

49:18

for AIDS. No, he died in pneumonia.

49:20

Wow. I mean, what incredible contributions,

49:23

both.

49:24

Really amazing, really amazing, and

49:26

they were given I think appropriately

49:29

side by side.

49:30

That makes total sense just

49:33

their creative output. And

49:35

Jim Henson obviously the Muppets some.

49:38

They will find Lorraine

49:42

convection, the lovers,

49:45

but dreamers and me, you

49:49

know, it's amazing to me that Sammy

49:51

Davis Junior never guest

49:54

starred on the Muppets.

49:55

Really is that amazing?

49:57

Wow?

49:57

I mean he was builders for the Muppets.

50:02

Black and Birred with our very red,

50:06

the basic hand

50:08

black of luck.

50:09

Whitney animals talk, Britney.

50:11

Animals, grunt squeak.

50:13

This one writty animals, and

50:16

they did not. At

50:28

the top of this episode, we mentioned Anderson's

50:30

podcast All There Is On

50:32

it, he explores the importance of grieving.

50:36

We've been having some fun chatting about the

50:38

coverage of bold faced names when

50:40

they pass on, but Anderson

50:43

knows all too well what it's like to

50:45

be part of the story. When he was

50:47

twenty one, his older brother Carter

50:49

took his own life.

50:51

When my brother died, I

50:54

do recall there being I think it was a front page with

50:56

somebody else's photo on it as him.

50:59

I don't know if it was the hoster the daily news.

51:01

And could you could you all even absorb

51:04

that? Could you absorb it and not be outraged?

51:06

Or I mean I didn't. We didn't have any you

51:09

know, we were sort of you know, there were like

51:11

reporters camped outside the house. And obviously my brother's

51:13

death was very public because he jumped

51:16

off the balcony of our apartment, but

51:19

we weren't looking at newspapers. Somebody who was

51:21

coming to visit had,

51:23

I mean stupidly, had brought in a paper and I

51:25

just happened to see it, like sitting out in the foyer.

51:29

But uh, yeah,

51:32

I just remember I just remember

51:34

they had there was the wrong picture.

51:36

You know, it's in

51:40

the constellation of terribleness, you

51:42

know, associated with this. That's one terrible

51:44

thing that the wrong picture does.

51:46

That have any meaning, that has no meaning, has no meaning.

51:49

I mean, those were all very obviously

51:51

dramatic, silicious headlines about

51:54

you know, my brother or about

51:56

his death. So it's not something

51:59

like an obituary that you would

52:01

want to read. And you know that also,

52:04

he was so young that there wasn't a track

52:07

record for you know, anybody to write kind of an obituary

52:09

of you know, it was unpleasant to have to

52:12

feel like you're sort of in this cocoon and somewhat

52:14

under siege. And then and then

52:16

we went to the funeral home, my

52:19

mom and I to view his body, and

52:24

there were photography were camera people camped

52:26

outside with of course Frankie Campbell

52:28

funeral home, and we were trying to go on

52:30

a side entrance and they followed us, and

52:32

I remember the time hating

52:35

the camera people, just feeling very

52:37

protective on my mom. And the weird

52:39

thing is, I don't know I've mentioned

52:42

of this ever, there was a

52:44

viewing my brother's body at the Campbell

52:46

funeral home, and we had really

52:48

no way. I mean, we were all, you know, just like

52:51

shell shocked, and there

52:53

was a line of I don't know, hundreds of people

52:55

and we really had no way to police it. Anybody

52:58

could have gotten that line, and my mom greeted each

53:00

person, but I realized

53:04

there's just random people on this line. So I

53:06

spent the entire time going through the line

53:08

like pre greeting people and

53:11

weeding people out. And there was one guy

53:13

who got within like three people at my mom

53:16

with a cover that he wanted her to sign the

53:19

front page.

53:20

Oh my god, and what did you do?

53:22

You remember today?

53:23

I escorted him out, I ushered

53:25

him away, and you.

53:26

Kind of ushered him away. This is perhaps

53:29

a little too logical, but do you think part of

53:31

it was you just lost your

53:33

brother, you weren't going to lose

53:35

your mother because some lunatic was in the

53:37

line, or yeah.

53:38

I mean I was always very protected my mom,

53:41

and certainly in that situation,

53:43

you know, I felt very

53:45

much like we are under siege,

53:48

and this is what I need to do,

53:50

and there's really no one else who can do it because

53:52

there's nobody else who kind of knows everybody that my

53:55

mom knows, and I always been like

53:57

my mom's gatekeeper. So I did

53:59

a study in my mom. From the time I was very little,

54:01

I used to read our journals like I would listen

54:04

in on phone calls. I wanted to know what was happening.

54:07

So yeah, I policed the line.

54:08

So it's I mean, it's almost as there was literally

54:11

no one else who could do that job.

54:13

Who was yeah or nobody. I mean, there

54:15

was nobody doing it, and I didn't feel like

54:17

there was anybody who could really Yeah.

54:21

I just didn't feel there's anybody could really do it.

54:23

Anderson says that terrible chapter

54:25

of his own life fundamentally shaped

54:28

the way he approaches his work.

54:31

It always stuck with me because I know what it's like to

54:33

be on the other end of the camera lens in those situations,

54:35

and it's really impacted the way I interact

54:37

with you know, if there's

54:40

been a school shooting and I'm talking

54:43

to or approaching somebody, you

54:45

know, I'm very sensitive about I

54:48

know what it's like to feel too,

54:50

you know, in the lowest moment of your life, to have cameras

54:53

in your face. I would rather not get the shot

54:55

than do something that is

54:59

intrusive, inappropriate. I don't ask

55:01

people how they feel when you

55:03

know, which is always an awful question. And

55:06

so it's yeah, it's impacted

55:08

the way I interact with people in

55:10

those moments.

55:21

So, Anderson, on this episode, you

55:23

and I have been talking about famous people who

55:26

died on the same day. I have

55:28

to tell you, whenever I bring up

55:30

this particular subject to people, and

55:33

it happens occasionally, they

55:35

almost always find it interesting,

55:38

I mean even fascinating, and they're

55:40

sort of tickled by it. Why is

55:42

this interesting?

55:43

I mean, why does anyone read obituaries? We

55:46

all have associations with these people, and

55:48

so I mean not with some of

55:50

the historical figures, but you know, we

55:52

all have our own memories

55:55

of Charles Manson or who

55:57

are Della Reese? Who you know, however it may

55:59

be, who whatever it may be, and we feel

56:01

connected to them. I mean, that's the interesting thing about celebrity.

56:04

You feel you have a relationship with these people,

56:06

and so there is this sadness

56:09

when somebody you you know, when

56:11

Sam the Butcher dies, you

56:13

know, it brings back all those memories of your

56:16

kid, and you're watching it and Alice and Sam

56:18

and the stupid jokes and the whole family and those

56:20

experiences. You're married and right,

56:23

and who you're watching it with?

56:25

Sam, Are you.

56:26

Going to kiss me under those stars?

56:30

I'm sure i'mna try.

56:33

And this is one of the things that that fascinates me is,

56:37

you know, the rituals of mourning and the

56:39

rituals of grief. We don't have communal rituals

56:41

really anymore, and so there's

56:43

a privacy to grieving now, and it's

56:46

done behind closed doors.

56:47

And so and when more than one

56:50

notable person dies on the same day,

56:52

it almost makes you think about why people

56:54

are remembered and how they're remembered.

56:57

And also just how how mysterious

57:00

all of this is, you know, how life

57:03

and death and you know, no

57:05

matter how high and mighty somebody is,

57:08

in the end, we are all, you know, we

57:10

all become dust, and everybody

57:13

we know will die, and we will

57:15

die. We all think

57:17

we're the first ones to like face the troubles

57:19

that we face and to you know, have the

57:21

issues that we have, But there have been generations

57:23

of people before us who have had the exact same

57:26

problems and the exact same worries and sleepless

57:29

nights and all that and I take

57:31

great comfort in that and to know that no

57:34

problem I face hasn't

57:36

already been faced by generations of people

57:38

before me, And whatever sadness I feel

57:41

has been felt by generations of people

57:43

who have experienced far worse than I will ever

57:45

experience and survived it.

57:52

By the way, did you ever meet Michael Jackson or Faara

57:54

Faucet?

57:55

Yeah, I did meet Michael Jackson.

57:57

I went to the

58:00

premiere of The Whiz with my

58:02

mom and my brother. And remember

58:06

if I met him at the theater or

58:09

if it was afterwards at Studio fifty

58:11

four, where my mom took me at age

58:14

eleven, But it was

58:16

very distinct to me because I didn't really know who

58:18

Michael Jackson was other than the guy in

58:20

The Wiz. I wasn't really much

58:23

of a music listener as a kid, but

58:25

I remember being a Studio fifty four and watching

58:28

him dance, and I turned to the person

58:30

next to me. I mean, I said, he's really good at

58:32

that. He should pursue it.

58:34

You know how to pick him.

58:36

I like to take some credit for you know,

58:38

he chose to pursue it.

58:40

He needed that extra

58:42

encourage that A.

58:43

Little question from eleven year old me.

58:49

I truly hope you enjoyed this Mobituary.

58:52

May I ask you to please rate and review our

58:54

podcast. You can also follow Mobituaries

58:57

on Facebook and Instagram, and

58:59

you can follow me on the social media platform

59:02

formerly known as Twitter. At Morocca

59:05

hear all new episodes of Mobituaries

59:07

every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts,

59:10

and check out Mobituaries Great Lives

59:13

Worth Reliving, the New York Times

59:15

best selling book, available in paperback

59:17

and audiobook. This episode

59:20

of Mobituaries was produced by

59:22

Aaron Schrank. Our team of producers

59:25

also includes Hazel Brian and

59:27

me Bo Raka, with engineering

59:29

by Josh Hahn. Our theme music

59:32

is written by Daniel Hart. Our archival

59:34

producer is Jamie Benson. Mobituary's

59:37

production company is meon Hum Media.

59:40

Indispensable support from Alan

59:43

Pang and everyone at CBS News

59:45

Radio Special thanks to

59:47

Steve Razis, Rand Morrison

59:50

and Alberto Robina. Executive

59:52

producers for Mobituaries include Megan

59:55

Marcus, Jonathan Hirsch, and Morocca.

59:58

The series is created by Yours

1:00:00

Truly

1:00:13

H