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1:32

Hi. It's me, Moe. I hope

1:34

you're enjoying season three of Mobituaries.

1:37

Now if you listen to to our Peggy Rusk

1:39

episode about the interracial marriage

1:41

that landed on the cover of Time Magazine

1:44

in nineteen sixty seven I think

1:46

you'll be especially interested in the

1:48

story of an earlier interracial union

1:50

between the fabulous actress Leslie

1:53

Uggams and her husband the very

1:55

charming graham Pratt. I

1:58

interviewed Leslie and Graham for CBS

1:59

Sunday morning in twenty twenty.

2:02

they told me about their wedding, which took

2:04

place in nineteen sixty five, a

2:06

time when interracial marriage was

2:09

still illegal in many states. But

2:11

here's something I recently learned.

2:14

Art was going to imitate life

2:16

just a few years later in nineteen

2:18

seventy when television production, Danny

2:20

Arnold, who had worked on TV's bewicked

2:23

and that girl, and would go on to create

2:25

Barney Miller, developed a sitcom

2:27

for Leslie. featuring an interracial

2:30

couple. The show never

2:32

made it to air. The three major

2:34

television networks all passed on

2:36

it. Danny Arnold would later

2:38

tell Variety that he'd been informed

2:40

by the networks that, quote, this

2:43

was a subject they were not ready

2:45

to deal with. It wasn't until

2:47

nineteen seventy five that an interracial

2:49

couple started to appear on TV

2:51

screens on a regular basis. we

2:54

move it on. As

2:59

George and Wizzie Jefferson moved on

3:01

up to a d apartment in the sky

3:04

on the Jeffersons, we met their

3:06

neighbors, Tom and Helen Willis,

3:08

a white man and black woman

3:10

who just so happened to be married.

3:13

You too seem to be able to handle

3:15

a problem so well. What problems?

3:18

Well, like, you

3:22

know, you and talent.

3:24

Oh, the biggie. That's not

3:26

our problem. It's other peoples. They're the

3:28

ones who can't handle it. Turns out Leslie Uggams

3:30

perspective wasn't so different from

3:32

the willises. She says she

3:34

and Graham were never bothered by

3:36

what the outside world thought of their

3:39

marriage.

3:39

It was a hurdle, but at the same time

3:41

the hurdle was not our focus. Our

3:44

focus was each other. And marriage

3:46

is not easy to begin with. You fall

3:48

in love, but then you gotta staying down

3:50

the road. So that was our focus

3:53

of loving each other and staying together

3:55

more than what the out side pressure

3:57

was gonna be because it was too late to think

3:59

about

3:59

that anyway. And now here's my

4:02

conversation with the incomparable lessly

4:05

ugums as it aired in

4:07

twenty twenty.

4:15

You ever hear six degrees of Kevin

4:17

Bacon? Yes. I have.

4:19

It should be two degrees of Leslie

4:21

Uggams. You've worked

4:24

with everyone. Every It

4:26

seems that way. I do

4:28

love in your teaching

4:31

From singing on TV's earliest

4:33

variety shows. What's

4:35

that? Please let us

4:37

spell out my name. Just starring in the blockbuster

4:40

mini series roots. That's a

4:42

kissy. KIZZY

4:45

to rooming with Ryan Reynolds

4:48

in the Deadpool superhero movies.

4:50

It smells like old lady ants in here.

4:53

Yes, I'm old, I wear pants. Leslie

4:55

Uggams career in showbiz spans

4:58

generations.

5:05

It's been seven decades.

5:07

I've been working since I was

5:09

six years old. In nineteen fifty,

5:11

the pioneering singer and actress

5:14

Ethel Waters starred in her

5:16

own sitcom, As Biola,

5:18

a Uggams played her knees.

5:21

Uggams was born not long before

5:23

in upper Manhattan. Her

5:25

mother, a waitress, had danced at the

5:27

cotton club, Her father, an elevator

5:29

operator, and maintenance man,

5:32

sang with a famous African American

5:34

choir.

5:34

They were happy to keep

5:37

me busy. because

5:39

we lived in a tough neighborhood, and

5:41

they were trying to keep me safe

5:43

and motivated. So I took

5:45

every kind of lesson you can imagine.

5:47

Her mother took her

5:48

on auditions. People used

5:49

to say, your mother's always

5:51

with you. My

5:52

mother would say, that's right.

5:54

singing and dancing

5:56

lessons were one thing, but after winning

5:58

a spot at Harlem's legendary

6:00

Apollo Theatre at age

6:02

nine, Leslie began learning

6:04

from the masters. Performing

6:06

on the same bill as Ella Fitzgerald,

6:09

she thought I was too skinny. Dina Washington.

6:11

She'd love to play cards. And

6:13

Louie Armstrong. I called him pops.

6:16

Were you like a sponge? Oh, I

6:18

watched every single

6:20

show.

6:21

It was the best school because

6:23

you were seeing everything on

6:25

and

6:25

off the scene. name that no

6:27

more. At sixteen, she sang

6:29

on the quiz show named that tune.

6:32

The influential record producer Mitch

6:34

Miller was watching. and

6:36

hired her for his new variety show

6:39

sing along with Mitch. I

6:41

love to walk in

6:44

Lorraine. It

6:46

was the first TIME THAT AN AFRICAN

6:48

AMERICAN WAS

6:48

ON EVERY WEEK ON NATIONAL TELVISION

6:51

WHICH THE SOUTH WOULDN'T TAKE THE SHELL IN

6:53

THE BEGINNING BECAUSE I WAS ON IT. AND

6:55

SO THE SPONSES AND MBC

6:58

KEPT SAYING THAT Mitch WELL JUST

7:00

HAVE HER ON A FEW TIMES AND Mitch SAID

7:02

NO, SHE'S PART OF THE FAMILY. to be

7:04

honest. You had no idea that these discussions.

7:06

idea. Not liking,

7:08

maybe ripening. Were

7:10

you aware the significance at the time of being the

7:12

first African Rocca regular

7:15

on a variety show? Yes.

7:17

I was, and it was a responsibility

7:20

that I gladly took on.

7:23

You couldn't mess up. You couldn't have any

7:25

kind of scam. But it was a lot of pressure

7:27

because I knew that I was carrying my

7:30

race on my shoulders, which

7:32

I gladly wanted to do.

7:33

Being good isn't good

7:35

enough.

7:36

Exactly. That's why I love that song.

7:45

I hope he had to be

7:46

the best. Let me go that extra

7:49

mile.

7:53

That song, Uggams' signature,

7:56

came from the nineteen sixty seven musical

7:58

hallelujah baby, Uggams

8:01

was the lead. So your first

8:02

show. Hello? I tell you how naive

8:05

I was when they came into my dressing room,

8:07

said, you've been nominated for Tony,

8:09

and I said, what's that?

8:10

She won the Tony. By then,

8:13

was married to Grand Pratt. The

8:16

two met in his native Australia. He

8:18

had never dated a black woman

8:19

before. But Pratt says they had a lot

8:22

of things in common. Most of them you

8:24

can't say on television. Okay. stop.

8:27

Before he brought her home to meet his

8:29

family, he wrote them a letter.

8:31

Now, I don't hear

8:32

any problems. I'm

8:33

gonna bring a black woman home. But

8:36

Pratt's mother, it turned out, wasn't

8:38

concerned about race. She

8:40

said, is she breast material? and

8:42

how ironic it was that I

8:45

impressed

8:45

material. But I

8:46

have a feeling that even if you were a methodist,

8:48

you would have lied and said I'm press here. As I

8:50

wore it. As he would have called me in.

8:52

The couple

8:52

has two children and

8:54

one grandchild. In nineteen

8:56

sixty nine, CBS decided

8:59

to replace the controversial Smothers

9:02

Brothers. With a

9:04

variety show hosted

9:06

by who used her

9:08

clout to help other people of

9:10

color in the entertainment world.

9:12

Is that what you thought? That's what I thought.

9:14

That's what I thought too.

9:15

so I had a black choreographer, Latino

9:19

black dancers, black

9:21

cameraman, and a black

9:23

conductor. So I maneuvered

9:25

what I wanted to be done. That was

9:27

a big deal. And you had a particular

9:29

writer on staff? Yes.

9:31

His name, John Amos.

9:33

He's at papa, who

9:36

I love in a door. John

9:38

Amos would end up playing Uggams' father

9:41

in routes. You got that right, Kasey. You

9:43

got it right. But if you wanna know what

9:45

show business is really about Would

9:47

you miss busting

9:48

out a little bit? just

9:50

watch her very improvisational

9:53

rendition of June is busting out all

9:55

over, which she

9:57

performed on a very wet NATIONAL

9:59

MALL IN WASHINGTON, DC2

10:01

IS

10:02

BOSTON OUT OF A LOVOO. YOU

10:04

CAR GUYS IN FRONT OF ME. AND

10:06

THERE I START AND ALL OF A SUDDEN

10:08

he slips and falls. The cars go

10:10

flying in the other direction. Now I have no

10:12

lyrics. So I just made up

10:14

anything that came out of my head

10:16

to busted

10:17

out alone. But

10:24

the thing is You sound great.

10:27

It's life. You can't say cut

10:29

and we'll do it all over. So I just

10:31

had to keep going. And that,

10:33

I'm guessing,

10:33

is that a polo training. It

10:35

was.

10:36

It was. In my mind,

10:38

I was skating like like

10:40

elephants

10:40

general. Mobits

10:42

what came out was not

10:44

scaring. I killed its general.

10:47

And I bet you nobody said anything

10:49

to you after finish. No.

10:51

Not a

10:51

word. Not even my husband. Among

10:55

a

10:56

group of especially devoted

10:59

fans, June the first is

11:01

now known as Leslie

11:03

day. A friend

11:04

of mine calls me on the phone.

11:06

He

11:06

says darling. Do

11:08

you know you're into every gay

11:11

bar in America? And I

11:13

said, doing what? He said,

11:15

June is but out all over.

11:22

I

11:23

hope you enjoyed that conversation. We'll be

11:25

back soon with brand new

11:27

episodes of Mobituaries. which

11:29

you can listen to on Amazon

11:31

Music or wherever you get

11:33

your podcasts.