0:00

Hello everyone and

0:02

welcome to episode

0:04

490 of

0:06

MTG Goldfish Podcast.

0:13

I'm Seth, probably better known as Seth from Alaban.

0:16

We have the full crew here this week kicking

0:18

things off with sweaty one piece

0:21

grinder Richard. Congratulations Richard on winning

0:23

your pre-release. We gotta stop talking

0:25

about lunges. People getting mad. We

0:28

gotta talk about Assassin's Creed today.

0:31

We are. Assassin's Creed. Assassin's

0:33

Creed. Assassin's Creed. It's

0:35

coming. It's coming. It's coming. We got another

0:38

ghost in Crem. Good morning Crem. How are

0:40

you today? Morning. Just

0:42

getting ready to move and do all the

0:44

moving pains and all that stuff. Wait, when

0:46

did you have to move? Like this month

0:48

or next month? Probably

0:51

this month. Oh. End

0:53

of this month. So yeah. We're getting

0:55

all that dialed in. That's all

0:58

I've known as this week. Yep, exactly.

1:00

Crem all gotta go by this

1:02

week. Crem blew my mind when he

1:04

was telling me I was looking for apartments in LA because

1:07

he was like, yeah, you're supposed to move in like in

1:09

the next couple of days. I was like, I couldn't literally

1:11

do that here if I wanted to. They're like, oh, in

1:13

the next month, maybe the beginning of the next month you

1:15

can move in. But apparently you

1:17

can't even do that in LA, which is wild to

1:19

me that they want you to move in right

1:21

away. But good luck with that. The move in time

1:24

is like, yeah, like the most places they won't

1:26

even hold you your apartment unless or place or whatever.

1:28

If you're like moving days more than like four

1:30

days. So I'm just like, all right, well,

1:32

that's because you're moving to the OC crew. I

1:34

watched that. Dude, I watched that show. I

1:36

know what's going on. I despise the OC.

1:38

I remember the 90s or whatever. I

1:42

will not be gone there. I despise the

1:45

OC. Gee. So

1:47

anyway, what are we talking about today on the cast?

1:49

Well, we got a BNR update today. So I want

1:52

to talk about that a little bit. We want to

1:54

talk about this Assassin's Creed. We have the full Assassin's

1:56

Creed set. So we're going to dig into that. There's

1:58

a modern pro tour this weekend. And then

2:00

maybe a couple other topics at the end if we

2:02

get to that Modern prices, some secret lair stuff, some

2:05

new decks in Modern, but before we jump into it

2:07

today, a reminder that today's show is brought to you

2:09

by Card Conduit and Card Conduit is the easiest way

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to Card Conduit for supporting this show. And

2:45

let's talk some Magic and let's start with today's news.

2:47

We'll get into Assassin's Creed in a minute, but first,

2:50

we gotta be in our update today. And

2:52

not only be in our update, this is

2:54

the once a year standard band window. If

2:56

you remember from last year, when they canceled

2:58

rotation and made all these changes, part

3:00

of those changes was with standard, we're only

3:02

gonna ban cards once a year. It's gonna

3:04

be six weeks or so before rotation. I

3:07

think maybe it's a month before rotation now

3:09

if you consider Bloomberg pre-release or whatever. But

3:11

anyway, right before rotation, Richard, what

3:14

do we get on this epic BNR update? No

3:18

changes in all formats. Standard

3:21

is very healthy. Every

3:23

other format, because Modern Horizons 3 just

3:25

released, we don't know what's up. But

3:27

here's some scary cards and then they

3:29

listed some scary cards, which are basically

3:31

Naru, Ruby, Medallion, Ral, stuff like

3:33

that. So

3:36

and then Modern Pro Tour is happening this weekend. So

3:38

that's a weird one, but standard basically

3:40

gonna be untouched going to rotation, right?

3:44

Yeah, so I think, yeah, this is,

3:46

it's interesting. And one hand, I don't know

3:49

if there's anything you really needed to ban

3:51

in standard right now. Like, is

3:53

there anything that you can think of, Krim, that like really

3:55

has to go? Did

3:57

I say to you? No. certainly

4:00

healthy so I'm excited they

4:02

didn't ban anything. On

4:05

the other hand, I don't know if

4:07

I like this system. I kinda agree with Krim,

4:09

like no changes for this update, like it's fine,

4:11

but it's so weird to me that

4:13

you'd make a system where the only ban

4:15

window is right before rotation and then if

4:18

you read today's announcement, they said we consider

4:20

banning a few guards with a Troxagrand Unifier

4:22

and Knight Yarn of Eos being the leading

4:24

candidates, but it's difficult to predict what exactly

4:27

will happen after each rotation. I

4:29

was like, isn't this like some faulty

4:31

logic going on here? Like if our only ban window is

4:33

gonna be at the one time when we don't actually wanna

4:35

make changes because we don't know what's gonna

4:37

happen after rotation, shouldn't we have the ban

4:40

window be like in February or something, when

4:42

like as far away from rotation as possible

4:44

be like the most productive time to have

4:46

this one ban window? No.

4:50

This is what you do when you don't wanna do your job. I

4:55

feel like, I don't know, I feel like they're just

4:57

trying to dodge declaring anything, right? Because

4:59

if you put it in a good time, you

5:01

have to take action or you have to have

5:03

good reason not to take action, but here they're

5:06

like, well, there's no point in

5:08

really doing anything, so it might as well not do

5:10

anything, right? But contrast that

5:12

to last time we had this, they

5:15

just rotated like half of Eldraine out,

5:17

right? They didn't even wait for rotation,

5:19

but then you would argue that it was

5:21

so dead at that point, like why did they have

5:23

to wait this long? So it still goes back to

5:25

Seth's argument that it should be

5:28

more aptly timed. And I think it needs

5:30

to be like in

5:32

the middle, like, right?

5:35

They can't put it right after a set release either, right? Because

5:37

then they're gonna be like, well, you know,

5:39

the new set has released and the meta has changed

5:41

and we're not sure how it's gonna end up. So

5:43

we don't really wanna do anything dramatic because maybe players

5:45

will adjust to the meta game, right?

5:47

We got that one canned. We can't say too

5:49

close to rotation. So you gotta just split it

5:52

and put it right in the middle, but

5:55

they should just get away with the schedule.

5:57

Does anyone care about the schedule? ban

6:00

when you think things need bandings and then don't do

6:02

anything when you don't think they do right and I

6:05

Would I would certainly hope Wizards is

6:07

looking at the format like every you

6:09

know, two weeks every month anyway Right,

6:12

like I hope it not actually just waiting till like

6:14

literally last week to begin. Let's look at standard right

6:16

now Let's see what's going on. Right pull up the

6:18

goldfish metagame page. What's going on this week? Regularly

6:23

and whatever but they see there's an issue they should

6:25

just act on it and then Declare

6:27

it fine. Otherwise like rather than having this

6:30

weird window and then no one's happy with

6:32

it. I'm not sure Hey,

6:35

so I will so I

6:37

will say I agree with you I would rather have

6:39

them do it that way but I have seen people

6:41

that feel the opposite I actually saw today just like

6:43

on social media talking to people about this There were

6:45

some people that were like this actually like gives me

6:47

confidence to know that they're not gonna be in my

6:50

cards It makes me feel safe to like buy a

6:52

standard deck because it shows that Wizards isn't gonna ban

6:54

anything So in that's part of

6:56

what Wizards kind of had wanted to do

6:58

with this change was like make people feel

7:00

comfortable paying $80 for a shield or whatever

7:02

because you wouldn't have to worry that it

7:04

might just get banned randomly So

7:07

even though it's not how I would manage the format

7:09

or like how I would enjoy it the most It

7:12

does seem like they're at least some people

7:14

are having positive Positive impact

7:16

out of this. So what do you think? When if you

7:18

control the ban list, when would you make the announcement if

7:20

you if you were in charge of this? Do you think

7:23

if you would do it once a year when when would

7:25

be the best time? Well

7:27

first off, I guess my

7:30

question before I answer how Handle

7:33

the ban lists isn't the whole

7:35

reason this this

7:37

the schedule exists Isn't

7:40

it so that if there is a car

7:42

that is problematic they have the time there's

7:44

always guaranteed a window that they could be

7:47

like Okay, cool. We can

7:49

ban this In

7:51

three months we know that we can

7:53

ban this in three months But that doesn't

7:55

exclude them from doing emergency bans so

7:57

they still would do an emergency ban

8:00

despite, you know, these banning

8:02

windows isn't like, isn't that a thing that

8:04

they've said or am I just making that up? So

8:07

sort of, yeah, I mean, exactly. This delay

8:10

did mention like the possibility of emergency mannings,

8:12

but they also made it sound like it

8:14

was kind of like an OCO thing. Like

8:16

we make some tragic mistake in the newest

8:19

set and we just can't wait the rest

8:21

of the year. So exactly what would qualify

8:23

as an emergency banding. Like let's say, you

8:26

know, AO actually has a problem after rotation

8:28

or a Trox. Would that

8:30

be an emergency banning after the fall set?

8:32

I don't know who knows. Or maybe we're

8:34

just talking about nothing because none of this

8:36

actually matters. Who's just going to ban cards

8:38

when they want to anyway. And all of

8:41

this is just noise. That is also a

8:43

possibility. They're going to change the policy in

8:45

three months anyway. Like that's like Wizards always

8:47

like lays out this grand scheme

8:50

and then they like mulligan it anyway. So like

8:52

it doesn't matter what they promise, right? Because in

8:54

two months they're like, wow, this one year band

8:57

windows like too rigid. So we're going to go

8:59

do this thing. Everyone's like, okay, cool. Right. Like

9:01

so it doesn't actually matter what they say. They

9:03

just do what they want and anything qualifies for

9:05

an emergency. So okay. I

9:08

don't know. Well, yeah, like what I

9:11

don't know what their metrics are for an emergency. So 10%

9:13

boys. Ban

9:17

a truck. Yeah,

9:20

I don't think banning a truck will help

9:23

their stock. They should have like their shareholders

9:25

vote for banning. That's the Democratic way to

9:27

do it. There it is. I

9:30

mean, in all

9:32

honesty, like how to get back to the

9:34

question that you asked because I was curious

9:37

because it would be closer

9:39

to this in that I have these

9:41

guaranteed windows, right, where I'm going to

9:43

ban something or not guaranteed to ban

9:45

But these are windows where I for

9:48

sure address the meta and

9:50

and kind of and if

9:52

there is a car that is so bad or not

9:55

even so bad, I guess like pretty darn bad.

9:58

I'd probably then do an emergency ban. or

10:00

put it out with those windows. I only, I

10:03

think I'm way more tolerant though of

10:06

a lot more things. I don't feel like

10:08

there are many things that need to be

10:10

emergency banned. And maybe that's because you know,

10:12

we've played, I've played through some of the

10:14

worst standard formats. And like,

10:17

I don't think Jace the Mind Sculptor, I don't

10:19

think it's a bad format, but I do think

10:22

that, like I loved Cawblade, but I

10:24

think that with the outcry of like how things

10:26

are now, I don't think

10:28

Jace would have made it like three months past like,

10:30

you know, the initial, once

10:33

whatever blood braid and all that rotated, once

10:35

that rotated out of standard, Jace took over.

10:38

And then I think in those windows, Jace would have been

10:40

banned. It's probably true. I

10:42

don't think, I mean, because Jace actually made it kind of

10:44

a long ways, right? Wasn't it like the

10:46

summer before rotation that it finally got banned?

10:48

Yeah. So it actually made it through most

10:50

of its standard life. Exactly.

10:52

So because I've played through so many

10:55

bad, like, or what people perceive as

10:57

bad standards, I mean, I played through

10:59

even like the skull clamps, which was

11:01

actually awful. A hum and

11:04

all of those formats, having played through them all,

11:06

I think this has

11:08

made me way more tolerant. And

11:10

it's like, oh, this isn't, this

11:13

card isn't as offensive as that

11:15

meta. So I think in

11:18

the grand scheme of things, I probably

11:20

would run it the way it currently

11:22

kinda is, but be

11:25

maybe a little more transparent that, oh

11:27

yeah, hey, maybe we are taking, like

11:29

more communication, right? Cause you look at like other

11:31

games like TFT and like

11:34

Riot, Mort Dog, right?

11:36

Like he's the like head dude

11:38

there. He is known for like

11:40

every weekly patch. And even

11:42

if there's not many changes, he types like

11:44

a 30 page essay on why it

11:47

is the way it is. And I

11:49

really appreciate the transparency of that, right?

11:52

So I think that's

11:54

the only difference that I would do right

11:56

now. I would be way more transparent on

11:59

like some cards. said, hey, yeah, we know she

12:01

Aldridge bothering you, but get good, right? Or

12:03

something like that. Or, you

12:06

know, like, these are things that

12:08

I would probably ask for if I ran the

12:10

banlist. Otherwise, I think it's cool the way

12:12

it is. So as far

12:14

as other formats, no modern changes make sense

12:16

with the Pro Tour coming up with Modern

12:19

Horizons 3. The Legacy one was

12:21

kind of interesting. Legacy players really want grief fan,

12:23

because grief is like, I've heard so many, even

12:25

more so than modern players, the Legacy crowd, oh

12:27

my goodness, grief is really brutal in Legacy. And

12:29

if you read the announcement, Wizards, I think gave

12:31

a little wink to that crowd, where they said,

12:34

yeah, we're doing it the same as Modern Horizon

12:36

3, we just got this shakeup. But don't worry,

12:38

we're gonna take a hard look at Legacy in

12:40

our August announcement. So I would

12:42

not be surprised if that's like, kind of

12:44

foreshadowing the end of grief in August, if

12:47

nothing drastically changes over the next couple of

12:49

months. But it'll be interesting

12:51

to see how things shake out. I think like

12:53

this announcement's fine, standards been fine, it's been better

12:55

than I would have expected for the past year. And

12:58

hopefully it remains to be good through rotation. And

13:00

hopefully if something is really out of whack, they

13:02

will just bite the bullet in emergency

13:04

manner, even if they don't want to. So anyway,

13:07

any other banning thoughts? I

13:09

have something to inject in here. Kind

13:11

of related, not related, not on our docket,

13:14

but Daybreak updated

13:16

their API to release

13:19

all of the magic online

13:22

match data. Now

13:25

it's down currently. I don't know

13:27

if, it may be because Wizards like, yo, what

13:29

are you doing? Or like they're down for technical reasons, I

13:31

don't know. But this is

13:33

unprecedented because this gives for

13:35

the first time access

13:38

to the same data that Wizards uses

13:40

to control these exact B&Rs. So

13:43

every time they reference like matchup

13:45

wind data, card wind data in

13:47

modern Legacy Vintage, it's all pulled

13:49

from Modo. And all of this,

13:52

as of like last week, is currently available

13:55

in raw format for us to have a

13:57

go at it. And I've been

13:59

working on it. other people working on it, but

14:02

we're gonna get the data and we're gonna be able to

14:04

tell like straight up Like if you

14:06

have grief in your deck your win percentage is this

14:08

versus not this we can tell you the matchups grief

14:10

versus whatever So it will

14:12

be interesting to see how Wizards handles B&R

14:15

going forth when they can't Hide

14:17

behind like oh, but we have the data

14:19

guys this right because the community will have

14:21

the data too And it'll be interesting to

14:24

see what happens from there My

14:26

guess is we're just gonna take down the data

14:28

real quick. That is my guess because My

14:31

under like from as long as I

14:33

run goldfish this goes against Wizards wishes So I

14:35

was very shocked when Dave big was like here

14:38

guys have at it So

14:40

I am speculating it's

14:42

currently down because we're just like yo yo yo,

14:44

what do you do with? Right, but if we

14:46

have all the data We would have like literally

14:48

like all the matches being played

14:50

all the league data like everything non

14:52

curated We would see

14:54

exactly what's going on legacy advantage, right? And we can't

14:56

really say like get good local meta game that kind

14:59

of stuff I like we'd actually have the data and

15:01

then we can compare it to Wizards So

15:03

if this sticks and stays through I think

15:06

this is gonna change the way Wizards does B&R Right

15:08

because up it would now they've been going like oh

15:10

that's community narrative, right? We got the real data This

15:13

is what really happened. So it will

15:15

change that dynamic and we'll see what happens if that

15:17

if that holds I Hope

15:19

I hope it's real because do you remember when

15:21

we used to do like the I forget the

15:24

exact numbers But like hundreds of thousands of games

15:26

of modern analyzed articles before we had to stop

15:28

doing them because Wizards And they took down the

15:30

ability right together the data from magic online back

15:32

then So it would be so

15:34

cool even just outside of mannings like So

15:37

many games are like this now, right? Isn't it the

15:39

norm that games like have an API where people can

15:41

look at Hearthstone and like the wind rates even stuff

15:43

like 17 Lands, maybe it'll go this time though Cuz

15:46

they haven't shut down 17 lands on

15:48

arena in the arena trackers that are also

15:50

like pretty in-depth Like yes, it's limited to

15:52

the pool of people who signed up for

15:54

the tracker So that's not as

15:56

great as the moto API, but still they

15:59

haven't shown any that down. So maybe

16:01

maybe we're in a new world now

16:03

or maybe Wizards just doesn't care about

16:05

magic online and it'll slide through for

16:07

that reason. That's also a possibility. Magic

16:10

online is the gateway to all the

16:12

eternal formats though, right? So this is

16:14

modern pioneer legacy vintage data.

16:16

I guess theoretically commander data if

16:18

that ever takes off as well. But

16:21

it would be certainly a new leaf for magic

16:24

if they were just open with all this data. And then

16:26

I think it'd be so

16:28

interesting just to see, you know, when they're like,

16:30

Oh, grief is fine. Like, is it actually fine

16:32

or is it not fine? Right? Like I'm actually

16:35

curious to see what it looks like. Yeah,

16:38

they've definitely had some B&Rs where they refer to like

16:40

their internal data. I think they are numbers, but they

16:42

don't really share what they are. And everyone's kind of

16:44

like scratching their head and like this doesn't line up

16:46

with our perception of the meta. So it'd be very

16:48

cool to, uh, if it does work out that way

16:51

to actually have something concrete to look at when, when

16:53

banning is and what not happen. So what do you

16:55

think the odds are Richard? Do you think, do you

16:57

think it's dead? Do you think there's any realistic chance

16:59

it stays up? So

17:02

I first think that you

17:04

do not want this level of data.

17:07

Like if you use like the Hearthstone trackers,

17:09

it takes the fun out of the game,

17:11

right? Like at some

17:13

point it's too much and it's like using a cheat

17:15

code, right? For the first hour, you're like, Oh my

17:17

God, I'm invincible. This is amazing. But then after a

17:20

while, you're like, why am I even thinking about the

17:22

game? Like the tracker tells me the win rates and

17:24

literally everything. I just choose the thing. Right. So

17:26

I used to be hardly against

17:29

wizards and over the years I've,

17:31

I've come in line with them. Having said

17:33

that, I'm still a data nerd. If this data is

17:36

available, we're releasing. We're going to process and release all

17:38

of it. That might be super interesting, right? But yeah,

17:40

like if it's available, you have to use it for

17:42

your advantage if you're trying to be sweaty, but

17:45

I feel wizards shouldn't really allow this

17:47

and they don't want to allow this.

17:49

Like literally every single

17:52

match being played, you have the data

17:54

on. That's very powerful. And especially this

17:56

game where we complain it gets too stale too quickly,

17:58

get solved too quickly and all that. that stuff, like

18:01

instead of being solved in like, what's

18:03

modern at like two weeks right now, right? Maybe it'll be

18:05

solved in like four weeks, it'll be solved in literally like

18:07

two days. Right? You would

18:09

hone in on the optimal build of NADU quite quickly,

18:12

right? And then people still

18:14

do this. So every day I get

18:16

requests on Magic Online to scrub their

18:18

results. So like a lot of

18:20

the top players in Magic Online do not want

18:22

the results because they don't want people to know

18:24

what deck they're on or what deck they're brewing.

18:26

You know, when you line up with someone, you

18:28

can actually just search them up and be like,

18:30

oh, this is their sideboard, right? So if people

18:32

are being sweaty like that, like just imagine like

18:34

just every match being available,

18:37

right? So I, I

18:39

think Wizards will take it down. But if

18:42

it's up, you got to use it, right? If you're

18:44

trying to win a challenge or something, you like when

18:46

you like to know your literal exact matchup spread, right?

18:48

Like don't you want to know how well your sideboard

18:50

cards do? Like you got to use it, right? So

18:52

yeah, yeah, there's, there's

18:54

not really a way around it. If you want to be

18:56

competitive, I have the opposite where you where now people are

18:59

going to see all the games I lose trying to record

19:01

against thoughts. Oh,

19:04

look at that. He went on 20 today. Anyway,

19:13

any other any other thoughts before we

19:15

move on to some Assassin's Creed. So

19:18

this week, or last week, actually was Assassin

19:20

Creed spoilers, we got the full set out.

19:23

And I'm very curious. So this set

19:26

is modern legal, legal and modern back

19:28

through vintage and in commander. It's kind

19:30

of like aftermath II sort of it's

19:32

like a booster product, but it's seven

19:35

card boosters, no commons in the set

19:37

all uncommon up through mythics. Curious

19:40

what you guys think of this set. So is

19:43

there anything for modern in here? I guess is

19:45

my question because I went into this thinking, oh,

19:47

this is gonna be like a modern

19:49

supplemental. We just got modern horizons three. Now

19:51

maybe we get a one ring or bow

19:53

masters or something for modern after seeing this

19:55

at though. It's a commander

19:58

is that right? Like if I squint really hard there's

20:00

a couple cards where I'm like maybe

20:02

that could see a tiny bit of modern play but

20:04

I'm not seeing a one ringer bowmasters or even like

20:06

a lorens revealed or something but what do you guys

20:08

think like what do you think of this set uh

20:15

to be honest with you I like as

20:17

someone who does not know a single

20:19

thing about assassins creed I

20:21

am truly just looking at it for the

20:24

functionality of cards um

20:26

I yeah you know who Cleopatra is I

20:29

know about Excalibur I

20:32

do I guess I know Da Vinci and

20:34

Socrates and all of that but like there's

20:38

really only thing is I guess it's

20:40

cool to see Sword of Feast and

20:42

Famine reprinted the stone blades still exist

20:45

in modern you do not play sword

20:47

of feast and famine in stone blades

20:49

yeah sick all right then I guess

20:52

in that case then this whole set so

20:54

far this is definitely a commander set but

20:57

every time we declare I I am

20:59

I've learned to be very cautious about

21:01

what I declare a commander set because

21:03

when there's a commander set all of

21:05

a sudden something takes over the meta

21:07

so what I will say is that

21:11

yeah this is of a

21:13

more generous power level uh

21:16

in some ways other than not otherwise I do

21:19

think it does look kind of weak uh

21:21

wait too weak for modern I

21:23

mean I I think the set is great

21:27

playing only two assassins creeds however

21:29

it is not

21:32

power creepy enough therefore 99 of

21:34

players will write it off right like I

21:37

am convinced if you take Lord of the Rings

21:39

and you remove orcish bowmasters and the one ring

21:41

99 of players

21:43

wouldn't care about it you know like as the set was

21:46

being released we all heightened like yeah lord of the rings

21:48

yah rah rah but like six

21:50

months after we'd forget about

21:52

it like war hammer like war hammer has

21:54

strong cards flavorful good set but it didn't

21:57

like power creep every format so we don't

21:59

remember it. Like every week a bowmasters hits

22:01

us in the face and we remember, oh,

22:04

Lord of the Rings is the greatest set

22:06

of all time. Right? So because

22:08

Assassin's Creed does not have a card like

22:10

that, you're just not going to

22:12

remember, right? Like you might randomly see an Assassin's Creed

22:14

Commander deck one day, but you're not

22:17

going to see like the one ring in

22:19

every game, in every format. So

22:21

I feel you'll never hit Lord of the

22:23

Rings peak until the Wizards decides, like this

22:25

is the power creep set. And

22:28

like you'll remember Modern Horizons 3 for a long

22:30

time because it's the power creep set, right? It's

22:32

just not universe is beyond. But

22:34

I don't know what IP would be the

22:36

favored one. Would it be Final Fantasy? Will

22:38

it be Marvel? But one of them will

22:40

be like the Wizards favorite where they actually

22:43

just power creep everything. And then

22:45

you'll have like Spider-Man and Modern in every deck.

22:47

Right? But like if you actually think of Lord

22:49

of the Rings, like do we see Gandalf? You

22:52

know, do you see Aragorn, Norm? Like, no,

22:54

right? They're all kind of just gone. It's

22:56

just like Orcish Boa Masters. It's Lorian Revealed.

22:59

It's all the stupid cycle ones that you

23:01

see in modern. So

23:03

it's power creep, not really flavor or

23:05

how tight it is and all that

23:07

that people remember. So Assassin's

23:09

Creed was not chosen by Wizards to

23:12

be power creepy. I

23:15

mean, isn't the idea, though, like,

23:18

or I'm just happy, I guess,

23:20

that outside of the Horizon sets,

23:22

like when it comes to a new set, maybe

23:24

only a few a grip full of cards make

23:26

it into like the older formats. Isn't that how

23:28

it's always kind of been anyways? But

23:31

you do a one ring type card, right? Like

23:33

unless you care about like, I don't know, like

23:35

what's the most playable card? Your tax collector might

23:38

make it into modern, maybe. Right. But like, even

23:40

if it's like a role play or fringe card,

23:42

you're not going to remember it, right? It kind

23:44

of needs to be like an ultra staple that

23:47

fits in multiple archetypes or is like not

23:50

defining, right? Like kind of just makes a whole

23:52

deck and like does the thing. But

23:55

like haystack regalia.

24:00

like they're cool cards, right? Like

24:02

I think Assassin's Creed pads would be happy

24:05

with it. I

24:07

think Rest in Peace could break into modern. Yeah,

24:09

that might have a chance. We

24:11

might see some Rest in Peace. I think

24:13

Fatal Push could break it into modern. That's

24:15

for sure. I mean, maybe

24:18

it's a good thing, right? Like we've

24:20

had this weird argument in the community over like,

24:22

how good do we want, you know, some people

24:25

don't want universes beyond it all, but how good

24:27

do we want universes beyond it be? We want

24:29

these cards to be showing up all the time

24:31

in formats like modern. So it's a little weird

24:34

to complain about universes beyond breaking

24:36

your immersion or like being showing up too

24:38

much and then being upset when the set's

24:40

not strong enough to see play. So maybe

24:42

this is like a good landing spot for

24:44

it. It's just weird. I think what's different

24:47

for me compared to Warhammer, let's say, or

24:49

something is this is like a modern set.

24:51

Like a lot of the universes beyond are

24:53

Commander decks. This one's like in booster packs

24:56

and it is like explicitly modern legal. So

24:58

that's what's like a little bit strange about it. I

25:00

was expecting it to kind of be like Lord of

25:02

the Rings in the sense that most of the set

25:04

would be like Commandery and power down, but there'd probably

25:07

be one or two cards that they like a handful

25:09

of cards that they may be pushed to show up

25:11

in modern. But I'm having a hard time finding any

25:13

cards that they really push to show up in modern

25:15

like tax collector. Maybe there's

25:17

also the two drop that you can like pay

25:19

one to make your opponent stuff lose hexproof and

25:21

indestructible and all that like that one

25:23

maybe in like the right matter or the right

25:26

matchup could be good. But I

25:28

was kind of surprised. What about Commander?

25:30

Like is this just a

25:32

low power set period or

25:34

is this a strong commander set that just doesn't line up

25:36

with modern? I

25:39

mean, I think this boosts a like

25:41

a very you would never guess it,

25:43

but two archetypes. Assassins.

25:45

Assassins. That's for sure. Yeah.

25:49

Wow. All the assassins do

25:51

like it's like Transformers. You're like, I want

25:53

to build the Transformers deck, but you're like,

25:55

they all just do random different crap and

25:57

you can't actually shove them all together into.

26:00

the same deck I tried building an

26:02

assassin deck it's like half of them deal with

26:04

historic half of you look like vehicles and pirates half

26:06

of them are free-running you're like what is this I

26:08

came in like just jam them together into a coherent

26:10

deck so it's super awkward

26:12

I would put it exactly like Transformers

26:15

you cannot make an Autobots deck you know it

26:17

just doesn't actually make any sense whatsoever but that's

26:19

the most logical thing anyone would ever do right

26:22

you're like I'm playing Transformers what I'd want to do

26:24

yeah I'm a transformer play them all together right why

26:27

did you do you like 18

26:29

different mechanic and our types here

26:31

none of this works together right

26:33

so I don't know about that part

26:35

of it but I can see what they're trying

26:38

to do though they wanted to give

26:40

you different archetypes so you can build multiple

26:42

different assassins creed decks but that's strangely enough

26:44

makes you can't like make a deck of

26:46

all these cards together right so

26:50

that'd be my one complaint about this set

26:52

actually it it might have

26:54

been easier if the theme wasn't assassins like if

26:56

it was a like

26:58

a card type that had more support in magic

27:00

it would be a lot easier but assassins you're

27:02

coming from like such a low baseline right that

27:05

like you kind of need assassins creed itself to

27:07

carry your assassins deck just because assassins haven't been

27:09

like that heavily supported over the course of magic's

27:11

history so I think that is like an interesting

27:13

issue I think it's what you said though like

27:15

they want people to be able to build like

27:18

an Edward Kenaway deck that's different than another assassin

27:20

deck and have them all like kind of do

27:22

their do their own thing so I think that's

27:24

what they're kind of going for you can definitely

27:26

see the eye on commander there where

27:28

like a lot of them are designed to be

27:31

commanders for your commander deck the one thing that

27:33

said I think really is going for are the

27:35

reprints are good Cremensions sort of feast in famine

27:37

they're sort of light and shadow there's temporal trespass

27:39

there's black market connections there's a horizon lands there's

27:41

rest in peace so it seems like Wizards it's

27:43

kind of like the old fetchland trick where when

27:45

Wizards would put a fetchlands in a set you

27:48

know and maybe the set isn't that strong and

27:50

Wizards want to make sure they had something in

27:52

there to like kind of juice it a little

27:54

bit I feel like they really juice the reprints in

27:56

this set in case people are like and these new

27:58

cards don't look super you know, strong or

28:00

whatever, at least you could open like some really,

28:03

really solid reprints. My question for you now is

28:05

though, do you think this set will sell well?

28:08

It's $132 for a 24 pack, 24

28:14

packs of seven card boosters. That's the current

28:16

price on Amazon. My

28:19

worry is like the aftermath, the aftermath

28:21

thing again, right? Like I'm

28:23

surprised they did this because like with aftermath,

28:25

people made it pretty clear they didn't like

28:27

paying full price for like mini packs. And

28:30

this looks a little bit the same to me. The

28:32

reprints help. Like, you know, there's in these mini packs,

28:34

there's pretty good chance you're gonna open a sword or

28:36

something that's like, you know, 40 bucks or whatever. It

28:39

drops to you now that it's reprinted, but

28:41

I don't know. I'm not, I don't think

28:43

I would buy a booster pack of this. Is this

28:45

just for Assassin's Creed fans? Is that the hope that

28:47

they're gonna like go open the boxes? What do they cut

28:49

in the pack? They just cut

28:51

some commons? Like there's no way they cut the

28:53

rare, right? These are play boosters. You still get

28:56

a rare. They did cut all the commons, I

28:58

think, right? They

29:00

cut all the commons? There's no commons. You

29:02

can get more than one, more than one

29:04

rare. They're basically like play boosters without any

29:06

commons in them. And I think you're guaranteed

29:08

a foil. I

29:10

don't know. Like, why did they just make normal

29:13

packs? I don't know why we have to, like

29:15

we podcast Magic the Gathering. We don't even know

29:17

what's in here. And how's the

29:19

normal person supposed to understand this? But I still

29:22

think it's power level. I think if

29:24

there was a one ring, I think you literally

29:26

bake the set, except there is a

29:28

one ring and orcish bow masters in here. The

29:31

set would sell like gangbusters. And

29:34

I would say it's very close to Lord

29:36

of the Rings in that the flavor is

29:38

not disgusting to

29:40

universes beyond haters. It looks and

29:42

feels like a magic set. Contrast

29:45

that to like say Doctor Who. You're like, what is

29:47

this? But this looks like Lord

29:49

of the Rings, right? This looks like it's fantasy,

29:51

assassin's thing. The only thing throwing you off is

29:54

like, why is Da Vinci here? Right,

29:56

but if you ignore that, that part's a bit weird. Art

29:58

of all the cards. looks like a

30:00

normal magic set. So I don't

30:03

think the Universals Beyond haters have much to

30:05

hate about this. So

30:07

I think it's just power

30:09

level. If it had super staply

30:12

cards in Commander and

30:14

Modern, we'd be all over it. But

30:16

instead, it's just like, well, explore

30:18

Assassin's Creed fans and it's fine.

30:20

Right? Like I think and it's also

30:23

wedged between the two hottest sets of

30:25

the year. Right? Which I

30:27

think will destroy its sales numbers, right?

30:29

Like have you even gotten your Modern

30:31

Horizons 3 cards yet? Right? Because remember

30:34

Modern Horizons 3 like

30:36

pre-release happened and then Assassin's Creed

30:38

spoilers. Right? Like I haven't even

30:40

like have you even built anything

30:42

yet? Right? And then coming down

30:44

the pipeline is Blue Burrow. Like

30:47

the most hype standard set that I you know,

30:49

that's been hyped up for like a really long

30:51

in a long time. Right? So I think

30:54

it's just kind of screwed. It's a

30:56

small weird set that's underpowered between the

30:59

two hottest sets of the year and

31:03

we'll continue talking about Modern Horizons 3 over the next

31:06

couple of weeks. Right? Like nothing from

31:09

Assassin's Creed will disrupt it unless wait.

31:12

Does the Pro Tour include Assassin's Creed? It doesn't,

31:14

right? It's not out there. No, it doesn't officially

31:16

release till the weekend after the Pro Tour. Yeah.

31:18

So no, no Assassin's Creed at the Pro Tour.

31:21

It reminds me a little bit of Commander Legends

31:23

Battle for Baldur's Gate where I had this like

31:25

awkward timing issue where it was in between.

31:28

What was it that year? Do you remember?

31:30

I remember one was Commander Masters because that's

31:32

where all the reprints came like a month

31:34

after Commander Legends Baldur's Gate. And then what was

31:36

the set? Was it Modern Horizons 2 was at

31:38

the set before? There was a popular set before

31:40

it and at the time Commander Legends

31:42

Baldur's Gate got really trash. People thought the

31:45

set was bad. It looked underpowered. They didn't

31:47

like it. People didn't buy it. Now two

31:49

years, three years later, people really

31:51

like this. And it's just that you see a lot of

31:53

people saying, wow, this that was actually really good. We kind

31:56

of missed it at the time. But I think the timing

31:58

really does play an important role. Like if everyone. spend

32:00

all their money on Modern Horizons 3 or they're saving

32:02

it for Bloomberg because those are the sets are

32:04

really hyped about it might be that Assassin's Creed is

32:06

the one that gets cut and then you got the

32:08

mini booster thing on top of it which adds another

32:11

layer of like if someone's thinking I

32:13

have a hundred and twenty dollars to spend on Magic

32:15

cards you're gonna have some people that are like I

32:17

would rather spend that on Bloomberg where I get you

32:19

know 15 cards in a pack than on Assassin's Creed

32:21

where I get seven cards in a pack so I

32:23

think all you add that you add all those things

32:25

together and I'm gonna be very curious to

32:27

see how it ends up I don't think this is gonna

32:29

be a super high selling set but

32:32

who knows maybe Assassin's Creed fans just carry because

32:34

the game is like super popular or something I

32:39

think that this is gonna have

32:42

because of how bad Aftermath was

32:45

and I I think that these

32:47

cards if you want they're gonna be

32:50

absurdly pricey though have you

32:52

seen how expensive Aftermath cards are

32:54

now is it because

32:56

it was absurdly unpopular and therefore no

33:00

one opened it it's the secret

33:02

layer logic yeah right

33:04

like like it is though and and you

33:07

may not know this but there's FOMO now on

33:10

Aftermath because if you want

33:12

that Nissa that Nissa is expensive I was

33:15

like that everybody knew that Nissa was expensive

33:17

from the get-go but then like Calyx is

33:19

randomly expensive all these cards from the set

33:21

are just randomly pricey for way too pricey

33:23

so I don't know I I'm

33:25

like well should

33:28

I should I buy this if I want

33:30

some of these cards or is this gonna

33:32

be like absurdly expensive I could

33:34

see this actually kind of piggybacks on something else

33:36

I wanted to talk about so a good transition

33:39

grim I could see it actually being worth it

33:41

because I think these cards are

33:44

gonna be tricky to reprint because Wizards

33:46

has talked a little bit about like

33:49

with these big universes beyond sets they're not

33:51

intending to do like full in

33:53

universe set they can like individually make in

33:55

universe versions of some cards if they need

33:57

to so I think like the Cleopatra

34:00

or whatever. These are probably

34:02

all the copies of Cleopatra. They're gonna be

34:04

printed probably forever, like literally forever. So there's

34:06

a good chance if no one opens a

34:08

set and then three years from now someone

34:10

really wants Cleopatra or there's some perfect Commander

34:12

card that goes with it. Those cards could

34:15

end up getting pretty expensive. And what got

34:17

me thinking of this was the wondering. I

34:19

don't know if you guys have seen the

34:21

wondering prices lately. Like I was working on

34:23

the finance update for the weekend and I

34:26

didn't realize the wondering. It was like 40 bucks not

34:28

that long ago. It was like 40, 45

34:30

bucks for the cheapest version, but it is just

34:33

since January 1st, it was $38 in December. Since

34:36

January 1st, it is up to the

34:38

cheapest version currently being $82 for

34:40

the bundle promo. And the normal

34:43

pack version over a hundred, all the other versions, you have

34:45

some that are 200, the one of

34:47

one of course, millions. But is this

34:49

an issue? Like I'm

34:51

starting to become a little concerned about modern

34:53

prices again. Because of cards

34:55

like the wondering, $82

34:58

a copy, you need four copies. And I don't

35:00

know if Wizards can really reprint this card. Like

35:02

they can do it in universe version theoretically at

35:04

some point, but it's not like they can just

35:06

stick it in a commander pre-gun or even in

35:08

a master's set. Cause it's the wondering and they

35:10

don't own the wondering. That's Gollum's hand down there

35:13

or whatever. And they don't own Gollum. They can

35:15

only use it for a limited period of time.

35:18

Do you think there's any worry? Should I be worried about

35:20

this or no? Am I freaking out about nothing? Wait,

35:23

let me get the straight. Yeah,

35:27

like, I guess I have a

35:29

little bit of a question about that.

35:31

Do we know if they can only

35:33

like, okay, maybe they can't reprint the

35:35

one ring, but functionally, right? They could

35:37

hypothetically make it like, you know, the

35:40

Godzilla border treatment, right? Like if, I

35:42

don't know, they made a Sonic super

35:44

like secret layer. I

35:50

think it would have to be my understanding cause I've

35:52

been researching a little bit. My understanding based on what

35:54

like Meru is that is it would

35:56

have to be like the

35:59

walking dead cards. they can print like an

36:01

in-universe version with a magic character

36:03

name and so forth, but they

36:05

can't use words or phrases

36:08

that are owned by the other IP. So

36:10

like maybe the one ring slips through, maybe the

36:12

one that rings generic enough that that doesn't actually

36:14

count as Lord of the Rings IP. I

36:16

know like Arwen or Aragon or

36:19

something, they can't put those words on

36:21

a card unless they pay whoever owns

36:23

Lord of the Rings to do it.

36:25

So they couldn't actually reprint those. They

36:27

could print Bob and print the same

36:29

rules text as Aragon on it and

36:31

have the Bob version or whatever like

36:34

they did with Rick in the Walking Dead

36:36

cards essentially. So

36:38

I think that's how they could reprint the cards.

36:41

Whether or not the one ring itself, maybe it's

36:43

generic enough that there wouldn't be any licensing issues

36:45

if they didn't have any Lord of the Rings

36:47

art on it. It

36:49

seems like a tough sell after the one ring

36:52

thing and how big of a news story that

36:54

was to be like, no, this isn't really connected

36:56

to Lord of the Rings, but maybe it would

36:58

work. I

37:00

mean, Orcish Bo Masters. That's

37:02

got to be generic enough. I think the Bo

37:04

Masters should be handoff, but I don't think you

37:06

can trademark the one like

37:08

the one ring. And like

37:10

like Krim said, like worst case, you make it,

37:14

you know, Ursa's ring, right? Or whatever.

37:17

And then you print that one.

37:19

So I don't think it's an issue. Really?

37:23

It's just Wizards will move on it. They're going to

37:25

they're going to bank up this reprint equity for a

37:27

while and they're going to use this as a way

37:29

to push it out. And I

37:31

don't know that even matters because we're

37:33

probably going to power keep the one ring pretty soon, aren't we? Like

37:37

do. Wow, that would be impressive. Maybe

37:39

maybe they power keep the one ring. How

37:42

could they think about the cards we were clamoring about

37:44

like from two years ago? Does anyone do I see

37:46

play anymore? Like I don't know what it was. I

37:49

don't remember whatever modern Horizons card we

37:51

were talking about. Like it's been supplanted,

37:53

right? So maybe they just get power

37:56

crept out or there's alternatives. But

37:58

if I don't. Patrick takes off.

38:01

I'm sure wizards will devise a way to cash in

38:03

on that. Okay, like as soon

38:05

as they feel the time is right They will

38:07

do it and the easiest way is to make

38:10

Ursa's ring or whatever and then call it a

38:12

day There's

38:14

no way or they can actually just do it

38:16

like we don't know what the contract says, right?

38:18

Like I Lord of the Rings. Would you like

38:20

more money? Yes. Okay. We're gonna reprint a Lord

38:22

of the Rings product right like I can't imagine

38:24

it going that poorly right

38:27

because They made a

38:29

presumably Lord of the Rings estate token estate made

38:31

a lot of money off this and They'll

38:34

take more money, right? So

38:37

I would actually look maybe they go to you Yeah,

38:41

I mean that is a possibility Series

38:43

comes the next Magic the Gathering sets They'll

38:48

they'll use orcish bow masters of the one ring

38:50

to sell it How

38:53

how bad would it be for magic if they did have

38:55

to print versus ring what if they did have to go

38:57

that direction like Isn't

39:00

that a weird solution to have one

39:02

of the most played cards in modern? We

39:04

have two different names But technically be the

39:06

same card and like you can't have the

39:08

one ring in the deck along with Ursa's

39:11

ring Cuz they're technically the same card, but

39:13

their names are different like that's every secret

39:15

layer says that's yeah Like

39:17

we all we have any days all the time now, right?

39:20

Yeah, so far though. Those are mostly

39:22

like commander only cards. I don't actually

39:24

see play I mean, it's still like

39:26

an awkward solution, but we've never had

39:28

that with like a tournament

39:30

staple that's everywhere I think most people just

39:33

forgot about walking dead cards or whatever and

39:35

like the moved on to the next secret

39:37

layer drop Could you imagine if

39:39

we ended up in a world where there's like happens

39:41

to a lot of cards though? Like every card is

39:43

two cards. We already talked about cards having so many

39:45

different card styles What if they each have a whole

39:47

bunch of different names to get rid of around IP

39:49

laws? Doesn't

39:51

sound like this And

39:55

literally unreadable secret layer cards

40:00

look it's the one ring I know

40:02

right where you're like here's

40:04

some cereal boxing rail like that what is

40:06

the you just eat breakfast like what's going

40:08

on right like what is this spot I

40:10

can't read anything so I feel

40:13

it's better better than like textless double-faced

40:16

cards or whatever so you need

40:18

to know this

40:20

if you're sweaty grinder that the

40:22

one ring and Ursa's ring is the

40:24

same thing right I'm sure some commander player will

40:26

get caught by putting the both in their deck but

40:29

DQ DQ yeah no yeah like I agree with

40:31

Richard there that

40:38

just doesn't seem like that big of a deal right like it's

40:40

like whatever like I I think we

40:42

already have so many different borders and things like

40:44

that just treat like a different showcase

40:46

style yeah maybe maybe

40:48

that's fair maybe that'll be fine well we will

40:51

see how that shakes out but let's talk about

40:53

Botard we have a modern a modern pro tour

40:55

coming up this weekend from

40:57

magic fast amsterdam whatever

40:59

whatever the proper title is but

41:01

coming to coming from Europe it's

41:04

modern featuring modern horizons too and

41:06

I'm really curious what you guys are

41:08

expecting out of this event so we

41:10

talked a lot about modern last week

41:12

Ruby storm Burroughs energy the nadu decks

41:15

L drasi decks a Tron decks making

41:17

a comeback just guy control is

41:19

like the new hotness of this week that

41:21

kind of emerged out of nowhere it's a

41:23

just guy energy control deck what

41:25

do you guys think about this new energy control deck and then

41:27

we'll talk a bit about the pro tour I

41:31

mean like I first

41:33

off it shows

41:35

that at least there was an inkling of

41:37

the correct idea when it came to deck

41:40

building on stream I was like I wonder

41:42

if you could make just control good again

41:44

right and I but I

41:46

obviously my numbers and like fine-tuning this

41:49

deck I think whoever won

41:51

the the challenge or whatever definitely

41:53

fine-tuned it way better than I did but

41:55

like holy crap there's so many yeah there's

41:58

there's a lot of one-ups and tech cars and

42:00

one dress down, one invert polarity. But

42:03

that's why at the same time, people are

42:05

always like, Crim, why do you only play

42:08

one of a bunch of random cards? Why

42:10

do you pretty much play Commander in Modern

42:12

every format? These deck lists are great. The

42:15

one-ofs are great for utility, different

42:17

situations, especially when you have to

42:20

play a control deck in Modern,

42:22

the widest format possible. That

42:24

isn't like, this is exactly what

42:26

you need. And when you back that up

42:28

with the one ring, nice

42:31

mention there. When you back that up with the one

42:33

ring, you most likely

42:35

will see these cards. You

42:37

will most likely see them. And

42:40

then if you're worried about the life

42:42

loss, Flage offsets that. And

42:45

most importantly, Snapcaster Mage

42:47

back in decks. Yo,

42:49

let's talk. All

42:52

I see is scoreboard here. That is

42:55

Snapcaster on the board, right? Snapcaster

42:58

getting Flayed again? Dude, nature

43:00

is healing, my dude. It's

43:03

good again. So Richard, is

43:05

the takeaway from this that controls back or

43:07

that Flage is busted? What are your

43:09

thoughts on this deck? The takeaway is the one

43:11

ring is here. I

43:13

think is what's enabling all of this. But

43:16

Flage re-randomly in a deck, very

43:19

good, right? It's not, we

43:21

haven't seen it in like one shell and

43:23

like, you know, it dominate in that shell,

43:26

right? It is literally going into very,

43:28

very different archetypes of different colors.

43:30

And you might argue

43:33

that people are including

43:35

colors to add Flage, right? Which is like

43:37

the ultimate sign of respect. So Flage is

43:39

the real deal. This

43:42

list is very one ring heavy. Like the only

43:44

way to get your one ofs is to one

43:46

ring and just power through and draw your deck.

43:49

What's interesting to me is Arena of Glory is

43:51

in here. The Exert Land, the haste. When

43:53

Control wants to take the corner, it

43:55

needs Arena of Glory, right? And presumably

43:57

for that Flage over there. But

44:00

the main engine is the the one

44:02

man account trip that adds energy galvanic

44:04

discharge and then wrath disguise Two

44:07

man a wrath turns out pretty good and then

44:09

you can even snap cast or two man a

44:11

wrath as well, right? so like And

44:13

then lives and then don't worry commander plays

44:16

looks like a commander deck because we've got

44:18

invert polarity, which is a three mana Commandeer

44:21

if you win the coin flip, otherwise only

44:23

a cancel And then

44:25

sink into stupor as well. They were

44:27

playing like tapped MDF C's Or

44:30

that's the three life MDF C. So

44:32

this is this is hot, but this is

44:34

well Richard This is a one ring that

44:36

you're not I've never seen one ring deck

44:38

so hard in my life Like you don't

44:40

you see a random black pile and you're

44:42

like that is being carried by

44:45

the scam package Like yes,

44:47

the other cars could like do something but

44:49

it's hard carry I don't think this deck

44:51

exists without the one ring like

44:53

the one ring has to be holding it together, right? Half

44:56

the modern decks I play wouldn't exist without the one

44:59

ring. That's that's how twice

45:01

for card advantage That's desperate ratings like

45:03

no man. You're wondering it down As

45:06

much as I think don't don't disrespect think

45:09

twice As

45:11

much as I think the one ring is like an overpowered

45:13

like too good card It does let you

45:15

play any pile like you can play pretty much any pile

45:18

of cards and if you throw four one rings in there

45:20

It's kind of like the commander philosophy where you talk about

45:22

like Oh, I'm building some like birds or some horrible tribe

45:24

and you're like, oh well I gotta have toski cuz I

45:26

need to draw a lot of birds cuz birds are really

45:28

bad That's all my modern decks now or like I got

45:31

the one ring My cards are horrible, but I'll just draw

45:33

so many of them that I'm gonna win some games with

45:35

it because of the one ring So

45:37

cream have you got to play with wrath the

45:39

skies at all yet even not in modern even

45:41

necessarily. Yeah, how good is that? That's a card

45:43

that's really interesting right you like if you have

45:46

the energy It's a two-minute wrath for essentially you'll

45:48

monthly in permanence. How strong is it? It's

45:51

it's good Wrath

45:53

of skies is sick. I

45:56

won't lie to you. I haven't had the

45:58

modern itch for a

46:00

while. Is this decade?

46:02

While are you going to be back in modern

46:04

control? And this this car, this deck

46:07

looks kind of sick, dude, like. And then on

46:09

top of that, Richard, what

46:11

you didn't mention was consigned to

46:13

memory also in the sideboard, which

46:16

is a blue and replicate one

46:18

counter target triggered ability of color

46:20

of colorless spell or triggered

46:23

ability. Oh, I mean, so

46:25

it has replicate. So Stifle

46:27

has replicate. Yo,

46:29

that's kind of sick, right?

46:31

Like there's a lot of

46:33

things about maybe maybe Modern

46:36

Horizons three is

46:38

what finally gets modern to be in a

46:40

place where I want to play again. Right.

46:42

Like like this. This looks good. And

46:44

Wrath of the Skies has been solid.

46:47

Like an actual solid card to

46:50

the narratives. It may not. It

46:53

may not seem like much. But I

46:55

think having played a variant of this

46:57

deck. Toon,

46:59

the narrative is insanely good.

47:01

Like it is it is such a good

47:03

setup spell. And it's not like

47:05

the one that's going to jump off the

47:08

pages like, oh, my God, Flage, right? But

47:10

like or or or Wrath of the

47:12

Skies. But what makes Wrath of the Skies tick is

47:15

the tune, the narrative. I like being

47:17

able to just clean sweep everything. This this

47:20

is a sweet, sweet board wipe that

47:22

I could not imagine. Like to

47:24

levels unknown. And yeah, sure. The one ring

47:26

is going to be a heavy

47:29

backbone to like a lot of decks like

47:31

you had mentioned, along with the light scam

47:33

package. It will not really scam, but, you

47:35

know, solitude, like solitudes. Good.

47:37

Like the elementals are obviously

47:39

good. Flage has been phenomenal.

47:41

So I think this deck

47:43

is if you play

47:45

control. I think this is looking just

47:47

guy is back on the menu, baby.

47:51

It's kind of impressive because the meta is

47:53

still way like very wide open in modern

47:55

right now. Thanks to Modern Horizon 3, you

47:57

got like Naughty decks and Storm decks. You

47:59

got Trondex. You got the old leftovers from

48:01

before modern Rises 3, so it's pretty impressive

48:03

that control is managing to find

48:05

a way to control such a diverse set of

48:08

decks right now. And I'm out of this just

48:10

all over the place. What do you guys think

48:12

of this pro tour? Are we going to see

48:14

this just like control deck? What are your, what

48:16

are your predictions? Like what's

48:18

going to win? What's going to be, what's going to be the

48:20

big narrative out of this tournament? Storm,

48:22

Nadu. I

48:25

mean, control. I think, I think if

48:27

control is at the top, storm comes

48:29

knocking, right? Which is always, always

48:31

the problem. Uh,

48:34

so I'm, I hope we

48:37

see this. I think Ruby storm is

48:39

a solid deck. Uh,

48:41

I've been, I've been looking it up and then

48:43

kind of get, getting into the, the world of

48:45

modern again. So, uh, I don't

48:47

know. I think, I think that deck is probably

48:49

going to be somewhere. It's going to be very

48:52

prevalent, especially with how much control is popping up

48:54

the weeks before the pro tour. Plus, I mean,

48:56

you know, the pros, storms always overrepresented.

48:58

Cause you feel released, you know, you get all the

49:00

intricate, you get to cast to tell the spells, maybe

49:02

this, do you think original, let me ask you, is

49:04

this version of storm too easy

49:06

to be appealing to the best players in magic compared

49:08

to like the past where you got to like, Oh,

49:10

I gotta get my gifts ungiven and do I get

49:12

enough man on, can I flash it back? Let's just

49:14

look at turn two. I

49:19

feel so, but that may be the reason

49:21

people comes back. Finkles like, yo,

49:23

I got like two hours of prep. What can I play?

49:27

I did a league. I did a league. I

49:29

did a league. I did a league. I know what's going

49:31

on. All right, let's go. So

49:34

I don't know. It's like

49:36

when John is the best deck in the format, it becomes

49:38

a lot less interesting. It's a lot

49:40

funnier when you see someone like navigate through like

49:42

this terrible, like 40, 60 matchup and like actually

49:45

dunk on someone. But

49:49

my prediction is the metagame will look wildly

49:52

different. Like even right now,

49:54

every day yields new results in the metagame. We

49:56

didn't talk about this, but turn two. one

50:00

train of spheres back on the table baby like

50:03

trot yeah here like

50:05

the meta game is so fluid

50:08

because like you know in football they

50:10

have the coaching trees where like certain

50:12

coaches have certain play styles and then

50:14

they're the people they train the

50:16

assistant coaches take those styles like we need to build

50:19

the tree for modern which is

50:21

like scam package one

50:23

ring i don't know the other one

50:25

is monkey or something right like if

50:28

you if you if you descend one of these

50:30

trees you win right so if you if

50:32

you have a one ring type deck

50:34

you can go like many different directions all off

50:36

the one ring like tron is a one ring

50:38

deck uh yeah so because

50:40

we have this kind of free for all

50:43

i think it's going to be a wide open format

50:46

i think seth you you

50:49

you you uh you tweeted this i think

50:51

it was from alexander hayne he's like modern

50:53

is a great format you take your eight

50:55

cards your favorite eight cards from the past

50:57

30 years of magic and then add 67

51:00

modern horizons one two or three cards and

51:02

you're good to go and i

51:04

i kind of feel like that's it right like you

51:08

start a scam package you start one

51:10

ring maybe something you know and then

51:12

you just add some random pet cards into a deck

51:14

and like you're good to go right and then you

51:17

battle you bid range battle everyone else

51:19

there so it's gonna

51:21

be exciting i am sure i i wonder if they're gonna

51:23

break it i wonder if someone like

51:25

actually builds nadu or it turns

51:27

out like uh i don't

51:30

know like grix's storm is the best

51:32

ruby storm variant right because you need

51:34

this thing now now you're unbeatable right

51:36

so i feel or this is

51:38

the best flage shell we've seen so many flage

51:40

shells like which one is the real one so

51:44

i feel the protur's gonna decide that

51:46

and it'll be super exciting this is

51:48

the most excited i've been for a protur in

51:50

quite a while because this is right after a

51:52

set release and it's modern and there's just like

51:54

you were saying there's a possibility

51:57

of new archetypes but even if there types

52:00

that emerge at this tournament, we don't really know

52:02

what's the best way to build Necro dominance, what's

52:04

the best way to build a storm deck or

52:06

the nadu decks, it's so scattered

52:08

and so all the control deck even more like that

52:10

like do you play tamios, do you not play tamios

52:12

it's all over the place. It can be really interesting

52:14

to see what rises to the top with the best

52:16

players in the world getting to get their hands on

52:18

this format. I'm still a little worried about nadu I

52:20

don't think we've talked enough about nadu and just like

52:23

just from watching the pros talk on social media

52:25

it seems like a lot of them are hard

52:28

at work trying to make nadu or break nadu.

52:31

It'll be interesting to see if that actually is like

52:33

as dominant as people are afraid it could

52:35

be maybe it's actually ruby storm that's the

52:37

dominant deck or maybe it's none of these

52:39

above maybe it's something you know that's two

52:42

or two right now that people haven't even

52:44

really focused on since modern horizon 3 came

52:46

out. It's a mere control. It's a rise

52:48

up and yeah. Wait

52:50

no like legitimately Richard sent me

52:53

this list that was fire like

52:55

it was pure fire it

52:58

was it was like it played for shadow

53:00

of doubts dude. Did I have

53:02

the shadow of doubts to have the stupid frog.

53:04

Oh my god that frog. I was trying to

53:06

the frog is so fun. Wait what frog is

53:08

this? Psychic frog.

53:11

Wait. Oh I'm freaking I'm starting

53:13

to I'm starting to hate that guy was playing I was

53:15

playing my beloved blood moon deck and I had turned to

53:17

blood moon but my opponent was on the place only played

53:19

a frog first was like oh I got him turn to

53:21

blood me when they couldn't cast a spell the rest of

53:23

the game. They just discarded their hand of the frog and

53:26

attack me three times and I died it was so bad.

53:30

Literally their whole interaction check. Yeah. Yeah.

53:34

It turns out this stone rain and blood moon

53:36

does not does not stop the

53:38

frog. Yeah. I mean like I I saw

53:40

that to me or deck that Richard sent me

53:42

like five vote or something and I have

53:44

to say I'm in love with that. That

53:47

is single handedly restored

53:50

my love and like

53:52

has made me want to play

53:54

modern. So I am currently actually putting

53:56

that deck together. You

53:59

know it's so sad. Talk about all this gank. That's

54:01

508 not a time of going

54:03

to be seen Yeah, I tried

54:05

so hard. I Have

54:08

not I have burnt so many. Yeah, my

54:10

win rate is like 25% You

54:12

know, what's the trap Emperor of bones crib you

54:14

tricked me Emperor bone sucks. No Are

54:17

you using Emperor bones correctly? Have you

54:19

tried? What have you tried? Manna

54:22

alive Alive

54:26

oh Come

54:28

on Played

54:30

Emperor bones. It's popped off Oh

54:34

I can't make that card work. But why why why

54:36

no green? What do you what do you why do

54:38

you green in the format? They only green we got

54:40

I guess not it was green but like no, I

54:43

don't like Actual green

54:45

beater like we don't use those anymore.

54:47

They don't have enough ETB's and recursion

54:49

but no green beaters I

54:52

guess Titan is still around but No,

54:55

I do the charm a glitch to make this happen. Oh

54:59

Oh one very unrelated note before before

55:01

we get to fish mail Richard you added you

55:03

added something to our discord the other day That

55:06

was kind of funny. It was it was an

55:08

ad from commander on Amazon What

55:11

what is what is going on in this? commander

55:14

ad I Don't

55:16

know but so they took stock

55:19

photos for for

55:21

commander and It

55:24

is like the most staged photo I've ever seen

55:26

if you're watching video pop How

55:29

nicely so everyone's playing unsleeved obviously,

55:31

but like look how the

55:34

lands are aligned like what commander players? I

55:39

Is this AI generated? Is this I

55:41

don't human could align their lands that

55:43

perfectly it must be Like

55:47

commander gave you ever seen and they have

55:49

like I don't know they have drinks that

55:52

are not on coasters on a wooden

55:54

table right next to the right next to

55:56

their own sleeve cards, and they're all in

55:58

sleep yeah, this is like from the 90s or this

56:01

is how people used to play magic I think in like 1995. Is

56:04

this how people play magic though? Like no

56:06

cap like okay so we don't play magic

56:09

like this right? But the the rest of

56:11

the world is this how they actually play

56:13

magic? Because it might be. It

56:16

might be. I I

56:18

do not believe people's lands are aligned that nicely. I

56:20

just can't believe it. I'm

56:22

not gonna be the one to tell people

56:25

or like question how people place their lands

56:27

but I don't think it's realistic

56:29

enough because it's I

56:32

think the basic knowledge nowadays is that

56:34

if you play a card game sleeve

56:36

your cards right? Like like it doesn't

56:38

at this point I'm almost willing

56:40

to sleeve my like basic like tabletop

56:42

like table cards like poker cards. So

56:48

you know how much effort that is though to sleeve

56:50

a deck? Like dude it's

56:53

a lot of downtime. It's

56:55

common knowledge now though. There's

56:58

no timeline where you are not

57:00

sleeving up cards. Plus you gotta pay like

57:02

10 bucks for a pack of sleeves? That's

57:04

disgusting. But no playmat? Have you played

57:06

with no playmat? It's like impossible to pick up

57:09

your cards. Like you you need

57:11

that little give to push down to pick

57:13

up a card that the playmat gives you.

57:15

If you don't have that it's actually very

57:17

hard to like manipulate your cards. So

57:20

that's weird. The reason I play

57:22

without a playmat is because

57:25

my clownery makes me forget my

57:27

playmat at home. But someone someone

57:29

I think in the reddit thread someone figured out

57:31

this was taken in the last five years or

57:34

something. Like this is not like an old stock

57:36

photo because there's some card on

57:38

this table that was only printed

57:40

recently. So this was

57:42

like recently printed or you know

57:45

photographed and this is the way

57:47

wizards want you to enjoy magic. That's with

57:51

drinks magic but no sleeves. Yeah oh

57:53

I see a thermal alchemist that is

57:55

definitely a thermal alchemist there. Yeah there's

57:57

some card to tell you that it's

57:59

restated. Oh, there's an arcane signet.

58:01

There's an arcane signet as well. But

58:04

but yeah, I I feel this

58:06

is how most people play magic. Actually,

58:08

it's just not. You think I

58:11

am curious if you're listening to this and you

58:13

can comment. Do you sleep? I guess if you're

58:16

late, they would not listen to us. Right. Yeah.

58:18

Like the people who are not sleeping there, that's

58:20

probably don't listen to our podcast. You really think

58:22

people play unsleeved like a meaningful number

58:24

of people. OK,

58:27

do you? I don't think

58:29

about the sleeve. Do you play your board game sleeved?

58:32

No. Oh, yeah. Do not view them as a

58:35

vehicle of sending your child

58:37

to school. You know, you know, you know, you

58:40

don't view them as an investment. You don't view

58:42

them as your retirement fund. So you just take

58:44

cards and play them. Right. Do you sleep? Do

58:46

you go to Vegas and sleeve up your poker

58:48

card? Like, no. So intuitively, I

58:50

think most people would play like this.

58:53

I guess it actually makes sense. Like if you

58:56

don't if you're not in franchise in the community,

58:58

you probably wouldn't sleeve your cards, right? Because you

59:00

treat it like anything else. Yeah. I actually think

59:02

I believe it now. I

59:05

sleeve my sushi go card. All

59:07

right. So I I do. Like,

59:11

how do you not play things like

59:13

I actually do? No, you're

59:15

like, wait, this car is March. I got the.

59:18

Yeah. On it. Dude,

59:20

I would sleep like it doesn't matter what it

59:22

is, like the deck in Candyland. I'll sleeve the

59:24

hat. Like I sleeve anything that is sleepable. If

59:26

it were up to I can't believe people. There's

59:29

no way that you will play unsleeved in the

59:31

current year. Even like you go to. And he's

59:33

like, OK, hold on, guys. We

59:36

need to spend 30 minutes leaving this up. Yeah. Yeah. You

59:38

got to sleep. You're right. All right. You

59:41

get me some sleeves. Yeah,

59:43

you got to. I'm sure you

59:45

put the inner sleeve in first.

59:47

You got double sleeve. You

59:50

got double sleeve. This is a spoon. What

59:52

are you doing? Double sleeve. I got the

59:55

comic on double sleeve. No

59:57

joke, I do have a slitting kids.

1:00:02

Well, on that note, I

1:00:05

think that was the end of our podcast for

1:00:07

today. No fish mail this week, but Richard, uh,

1:00:10

we'll probably get to it next week. How should people send in their

1:00:12

questions for us? All right. Hit us

1:00:14

up on Twitter at MTGoldFish with the hashtag

1:00:16

MTG fish mail, and we'll get to your

1:00:18

questions on air. And

1:00:21

I believe that brings us to the end of

1:00:23

episode 490 of MTGoldFish podcast. So

1:00:26

Richard Graham, thanks for hanging out. Thanks everyone for

1:00:28

listening. Stay Card Conduit for supporting the show and

1:00:31

we'll be back next week to talk about the

1:00:33

modern pro tour in whatever else goes on in

1:00:35

the world of magic. So until

1:00:38

then everyone have a spectacular week and

1:00:40

this is a crew signing out. Bye.