0:01

Welcome back

0:29

to What the Hype podcast and happy pride to

0:31

all of you who celebrate, which should be

0:33

all of you, even if you're just allies. Which

0:37

should be all of you. That

0:39

is a threat. So speaking of pride,

0:41

we did want to acknowledge that and

0:44

celebrate that in our own special way.

0:46

So this week on What the Hype,

0:48

we're talking about Netflix's Heartstopper, which is

0:51

an adaptation of Alice Osman's

0:53

graphic novel. I'm here

0:56

with Andrew and Eric this

0:58

week. I just realized I didn't introduce

1:00

myself, but it's Pam. I'm back. Sorry

1:02

for everybody. Everybody knows that voice. And

1:06

we also have a special guest this

1:08

week. Right, Andrew? We do. Yes.

1:10

And I get to enter him because

1:12

he's my boyfriend. Pat is here. Welcome

1:14

Pat, making his What the Hype debut.

1:17

Hello, everyone. I'm so excited that

1:20

I get to be in the

1:22

trifecta of Hype podcasting

1:25

now. So this is great.

1:27

Oh, through yourself. I get it.

1:30

Yeah. Well, Pat is on today,

1:32

not just because he's gay, but also because

1:34

he is a huge Heartstopper

1:36

fan, like huge, huge, huge. So we

1:38

thought we have to have him on

1:40

to talk about it because he's probably

1:42

going to know the TV show and

1:44

the comics better than anybody. Yes.

1:47

How many times? Sitting next to

1:49

me. So I have all five.

1:52

So yes, I love them. Patiently

1:54

waiting for the fifth installment. Yes.

1:57

Or the sixth, right? The sixth installment.

1:59

Yeah. That's the six. How many

2:01

times have you read the graphic

2:04

novels and watched the TV show at this

2:06

point? So I've only read the fifth one

2:08

once, but the rest of them probably four

2:11

times. And

2:13

then the show in

2:15

this rewatch just to prep for this was

2:17

probably my sixth time watching

2:20

those seasons. Nice. Is

2:22

this a comfort watch for you? Is that

2:24

what it's turned into? Yes. Okay. Yes. It

2:26

just makes me happy. Almost as much as

2:28

great British Bake Off, but it's there. It's

2:31

up there. I thought you were going to

2:33

say how much as much as me, but

2:35

it's fine. Baking's baking's good. I get it.

2:37

Well, you did fake break up with him

2:39

on Millennial this week. So maybe that's merited.

2:42

All right. Well, don't worry

2:44

about it if you're not a super fan like Pat,

2:46

because as you probably know by

2:48

now, our first episodes on what the

2:50

hype are always dedicated to introducing

2:53

you to the fandom so that you can get

2:55

your bearings straight before you dive right in and

2:57

we're going to do that just right now for

2:59

you all right here. To kick things off, I

3:02

wanted to tell you all a little bit about

3:04

what Heartstopper is about. So

3:06

Heartstopper is a queer British coming

3:08

of age romantic dramedy series and

3:10

it is based off of Alice

3:13

Osman's web comic and graphic novel

3:15

of the same name. And

3:17

you can read that for free as well, right Pat?

3:20

Yeah, so she has the

3:22

entire series on both

3:25

Tumblr and Tapas, which are just

3:27

two blogging sites. Obviously, Tumblr is

3:29

more famous. There

3:31

are extra scenes that are

3:33

not in the actual published versions of

3:36

the web comics or of the graphic

3:38

novels. I have not gone through all

3:40

of that yet. That is something I

3:42

will do someday. Well, the cool thing

3:44

about this adaptation is that Alice Osman

3:46

is actually very heavily involved in the

3:48

making of the TV show as well,

3:50

which is why graphic novel fans will

3:52

probably notice that the

3:55

show is very true to the

3:57

comics. She serves as writer. and

4:00

executive producer on the show. And

4:02

Season 1 premiered back in April of 2022.

4:05

The show centers

4:07

around Charlie Spring and Nick Nelson, who

4:09

meet when they end up sitting next

4:11

to each other in class. And

4:14

while Charlie is out as gay, Nick

4:16

is still struggling to figure out his

4:18

identity. Each season is

4:20

only eight episodes long, and each episode

4:22

is about 30 minutes. So it's a

4:25

pretty easy binge to Pat's point about

4:27

having watched the series through about six

4:29

times. So you two could be like

4:31

Pat, and it's a pretty low commitment.

4:33

So it's really easy to get into

4:36

this if you're, you know, for

4:38

some reason, if you've missed the boat. Yeah,

4:40

and it is very popular. Heartstopper

4:42

came with a built in audience

4:44

of fans who had been avidly

4:47

reading Osman's webcomic turned graphic novel

4:49

series. And fun fact,

4:51

Nick and Charlie were originally introduced

4:53

as characters in Osman's debut novel

4:56

Solitaire in 2014, which

4:58

actually centers on Charlie's sister, Tori.

5:00

So we know Pat has

5:03

read the graphic novels, Pam

5:06

and Eric, you haven't yet, right? This

5:08

was not on my radar at all until

5:11

we said we were going to do What

5:13

the Hype on it, and I decided to

5:15

give it a shot. I

5:17

was thoroughly charmed by the series.

5:19

I'm so glad to hear that.

5:21

Very charmed. I've watched the first

5:24

season now, and

5:26

it's just, it's wonderful. So

5:28

I've not read the graphic

5:30

novels, maybe sometime. I

5:34

have actually read all of them, and

5:36

they're really quick to get through as

5:38

most graphic novels are the comic style

5:41

as well is very charming. If you

5:43

watch the show and you notice

5:45

all those little like animations of

5:47

leaves and flutters and sparks, all

5:50

of that is part of Osman's

5:52

style in terms of what

5:55

the graphic novels are. And

5:57

so it's a really easy way

6:00

to like dive into both worlds. Like

6:02

there's touchstones on either side, no matter

6:04

where you start. I thought

6:06

that was a really nice touch that even

6:08

those graphic leaves appeared in the TV show.

6:11

It was a really cool way to tie

6:13

the graphic novels and the

6:15

show together. Pat, tell

6:17

us about the adaptation more

6:19

though, in terms

6:21

of like graphic novels, the seasons, how

6:24

are they moving along thus far?

6:27

Yeah, so the first season is the

6:29

first two graphic novels, basically

6:31

in their entirety, which

6:34

going like back to reading them, even though they

6:36

are each about like 300 some pages,

6:38

it only take you an hour to read. Because

6:41

you go through them so quickly, like there's

6:43

maybe like a few frames per page, you

6:45

just kind of fly through. So

6:48

there's that. When we get

6:50

to season two, season two mixes

6:53

up the third and

6:55

the fourth graphic novels a bit.

6:58

It's basically the entirety of the third and then the

7:00

fourth it picks and chooses a little bit of it.

7:03

I have a feeling that one

7:05

season three is out this fall,

7:07

that is going to be the

7:10

rest of the fourth and probably

7:12

some at least of the fifth

7:14

installment of the graphic novels. Okay,

7:16

it's fun to speculate, isn't it, about that sort

7:19

of thing? Yeah, and it's the

7:21

way that the story is going along, I see

7:23

the reason why I don't want to spoil anything

7:25

for anybody, but I do see

7:28

the reason for Alice

7:31

changing up the order a little bit. Cool,

7:33

and speaking of changes, she has made some other

7:35

changes. Yeah, so she's

7:38

combined a few characters here and there

7:40

to form other ones. There's a

7:43

couple characters from Solitaire,

7:45

that original novel based on

7:47

Tori, where she's

7:49

taken aspects of those characters and kind of

7:51

plugged them in to some of these other

7:54

ones. And she's just able to

7:56

flesh out the characters a lot more. Like we

7:58

have, the

8:00

lesbian couple in the show, Darcy and... Tanya

8:04

blanking on her name. Yes. She,

8:08

like, is able to elaborate just on their backstories

8:10

a little more so that we're able to just

8:13

really see who they are and flesh

8:15

them out since the graphic novels do

8:17

focus primarily just on Charlie and Nick.

8:20

It is nice to be able to see more

8:22

of, like, Tau and see more of Elle,

8:25

especially with Elle getting more of her

8:27

backstory. Oh, it's so great

8:29

to hear that that is the case with

8:31

the show, because that's something that I love

8:33

about it early on, is it's a whole

8:35

sort of group of queer

8:37

coming-of-age teens that are all friends, and

8:41

it's really great to kind of see what each

8:43

of their backstory is and what their relationship is

8:46

to each other, so I do love the show

8:48

for that. Yeah, everyone's kind of gay in

8:50

the Heartstopper universe. Not really, but

8:52

almost. That struck me when I first started

8:54

watching. And

8:56

I liked how, I mean, the one sort of

8:59

straight character of Tau is, like, maybe the worst

9:01

off in terms of, like,

9:05

he's kind of a mess, he has a crisis in

9:07

season one. But, you know, it's just everybody's going

9:09

through it. It feels very real. It

9:12

feels very grounded. Nothing

9:15

is overdramatic. I really love it.

9:17

Yeah. So I

9:19

think, needless to say, Pat, you would recommend the

9:21

graphic novels to anybody who is interested in... Oh,

9:23

100%. ...diving into this

9:25

fandom. You said reading one graphic novel

9:27

in the series takes an hour? Yeah.

9:31

Yeah, they're really quick, like... Super easy. Yeah,

9:33

even, like, reading it for the first time,

9:35

too, like I just read, I've had the

9:37

fifth one, and I've been putting off reading

9:40

it, but I did just read

9:42

it last night, the fifth one, first time reading, and

9:44

taking in all the pictures, all the art and everything,

9:46

still just an hour. Wow. Why

9:49

have you been avoiding reading it? You don't want it to end? I don't

9:51

want it to end. The

9:53

fourth one is a little heavy,

9:56

so that I was a little bit, like,

9:58

afraid of... where it would

10:00

put me emotionally. So, guys, a little

10:03

bit of it too. I get that.

10:05

Yeah, I would check trigger warnings for

10:08

sure. Yes. For the fourth one. I

10:10

would agree with that. Uh-oh. I

10:13

wasn't expecting it to go there, and then when it did, I was like,

10:15

oh, this actually makes a lot of sense. Yes. But

10:18

it is really heavy. Oh, okay. Well,

10:21

that aside, what I've

10:23

really enjoyed about Heartstopper is that

10:25

it is a feel-good series. It's

10:27

very colorful. Pam

10:30

mentioned the

10:32

graphics, the leave graphics falling when they

10:34

kiss and sparks flying and stuff like

10:36

that. I love that it is very

10:38

loyal to the graphic novels. I really

10:40

appreciate a solid book to film or

10:42

TV adaptation. And I would

10:45

also say it's relatively less

10:47

dramatic. I didn't

10:49

know about Volume 5. But from what

10:51

I've seen so far, it's

10:53

relatively less dramatic than some

10:55

other LGBTQ plus stories that

10:57

we see on television

11:01

and in film. And

11:03

I think because of that, it's

11:05

trying to reach a wider range

11:07

audience. Whereas some queer

11:09

stories, they seem like they're very targeted

11:11

towards mainly adults. I mean, the first

11:14

queer series I watched was Queer as

11:16

Folk, and that is definitely not for

11:18

children. Not at all. And that

11:21

was my introduction to the gay world. And

11:23

I was like, wow, it's just sex, drugs,

11:25

and rock and roll out there. But Heartstopper,

11:28

it paints a very different picture. And

11:30

arguably a more accurate picture, especially

11:32

in present day. So I really appreciate that.

11:35

I mean, I would call this a family

11:37

show. I think it's a good family show.

11:40

Well, it's crucial that there's queer

11:42

joy. The characters are allowed to

11:44

have joy. Nobody's

11:46

dying of cancer every other episode.

11:49

It feels like so often the

11:51

queer narratives that I've been exposed

11:53

to have ended horribly. And

11:56

there's so much suffering. And these characters

11:58

are far from perfect. the narrative is

12:00

far from perfect. But watching the show,

12:03

even in the first season, I

12:05

kept catastrophizing, going, what's

12:07

gonna happen in this scene? They're getting together,

12:09

they might kiss, but who's gonna walk in

12:12

on them and then absolutely out them to

12:14

everybody? And then it doesn't happen. My worst

12:16

fears don't happen. And it's such

12:18

a relief. It's such a

12:20

relief that there are genuinely touching

12:22

moments that these characters are allowed

12:24

to have and give it space.

12:26

Their relationship, again, far from perfect,

12:28

but it feels so real. It

12:31

feels so, it's so heartfelt and it's so

12:33

happy to watch them smile at each other

12:35

and say hi. That

12:38

is the sweetest part. I mean, the

12:40

queer experience is not my lived experience,

12:42

but I have a lot of friends

12:45

who are. And from what

12:47

I've heard, a lot of these stories

12:49

that Hollywood comes out are rooted, to

12:51

your point, Eric, in like

12:53

tragedy in a way. Like it always

12:55

has to include a lot of pain.

12:57

And sometimes the pain doesn't even get

12:59

soothed at all. And so it is

13:01

nice that even though Heartstopper doesn't

13:03

shy away from exploring parts of that, at

13:06

the end of the day, it is still

13:08

a feel good coming out story, right? Like

13:10

we know, for example, that Charlie

13:12

is out because he gets outed and that's not

13:14

great. Everybody should be allowed to come out on

13:16

their own and in their own time, but he

13:18

has a really good support system and that's not

13:21

something that you often see. I

13:23

think the only other recent

13:25

television show that hasn't really

13:27

featured a gay love story

13:29

that's rooted in pain or

13:31

like a bunch of homophobia

13:33

is Schitt's Creek. And

13:35

I know that a lot of people have similarly said,

13:38

what you said, Eric, about this is that they kept

13:40

waiting for the shoe to drop and then it didn't

13:42

happen. Like there was never a moment in Schitt's Creek

13:44

where those two characters had to suffer

13:47

and we need stuff like that too. And

13:49

I totally understand that because I can't imagine

13:51

like going through life and only seeing like

13:53

romance stories that end in tragedy in some

13:56

way that would kill me. Yeah,

13:58

and so many, so many. of

14:00

the stories, at least when it comes from

14:02

like the gay perspective, are

14:04

based in like the 90s,

14:06

where every single story fail

14:09

stop, because I think it's easy to fall

14:11

back on, goes into the

14:13

like the AIDS crisis. Yeah. So,

14:15

and it's like, I

14:17

think all of us now are in

14:19

a space where it's not

14:21

like we're beyond that, but

14:23

that story is so easy to fall into.

14:26

And we just want something happy. Like I

14:28

think this show truly embodies

14:30

the whole, it gets better movement from

14:32

a decade and a half ago. Like

14:35

this is on the better side of

14:37

it. Yeah. And to that point, I think

14:40

in some ways I understand, I actually just,

14:42

this does not really hurt supper related, but

14:44

I'm a really big Chapel Road fan. And so

14:47

I'm on Chapel Road TikTok right now, as everybody

14:49

probably is, because she's been blowing up lately. But

14:51

they were talking about this older

14:53

man who was really getting

14:56

down to Pink Pony Club at one of her

14:58

concerts. And people were talking about how emotional it

15:00

is because the reason you don't often see a

15:02

lot of older gay men is because a lot

15:04

of them did die as a

15:06

result of the AIDS epidemic. So I think

15:08

perhaps the reason why a lot

15:10

of these Hollywood depictions of gay love do end

15:12

in tragedy is because the people that are green lining

15:14

that that's like kind of all they knew for a

15:17

while. So it really is refreshing

15:19

to see that, you know, we're

15:21

kind of turning over a new leaf and there

15:23

can be stories for all of you that need

15:26

that representation to feel joy. There's

15:28

a perfect moment in season one. I think it's Ellen

15:30

Tower looking to watch a movie and

15:33

the options are Brokeback Mountain or Moonlight.

15:36

And I think Elle is like, that's so

15:38

sad. It's so depressing. Like, yeah, and I've

15:40

seen both Moonlight is wonderful, but Brokeback

15:43

Mountain, I mean, it's just about

15:45

how being gay ruins their lives

15:47

and their marriages and all of

15:50

their relationships around them. And like,

15:52

this is not inspiring. The show

15:54

yearns to be what those queer

15:56

films are not. Yeah, I think

15:58

I have to. One

16:01

of my goals here is to get personal and

16:03

what the hype from time to time, as we

16:05

have already with our episode on fitting pop culture

16:07

into your life. And Pat,

16:09

I do have to ask you, you are so

16:11

in the heart stopper and I'm happy for you,

16:14

but I can't help but wonder if

16:16

you're so into this love story

16:18

because something is missing from our

16:20

love story. I

16:23

hope you're on this question. Pat, did

16:25

you know this question was coming? This

16:28

is on the spot here. No,

16:31

nothing is missing. I just, thank

16:34

God. I

16:37

adore these characters so much. And I think a

16:39

big reason of that is, is because I see

16:41

myself in both of them. Like

16:43

I have lived experiences that both of

16:45

them have had. Just

16:47

like when it comes to Nick, like I

16:49

did sports, I grew up on

16:52

a farm, like kind of having to be the manly

16:55

type person that people wouldn't

16:57

necessarily think was gay.

17:00

But then at the same time, like with Charlie,

17:03

I've had some of the same mental health

17:06

things that he does. Like

17:09

with depression and things like

17:11

that, like definitely anxiety. So

17:14

I can relate to both of

17:16

them on such deep levels. And

17:19

like we've talked about, it's just, it's

17:21

such a happy show. Like even me

17:24

rewatching it over this past week, like

17:26

I'm sitting there like happy crying, like

17:28

legit tears, just gushing, even

17:30

though I've seen it so many times, I know exactly

17:33

what's coming. But I just,

17:35

I feel so happy for these characters most

17:37

of the time. Yeah, no,

17:39

I totally understand. It is a feel good show. You

17:42

can't help but feel warm and fuzzy when you watch

17:44

it. So if anybody needs to pick me up. I

17:46

thought I was just gonna say, he needed you to sidle up more and

17:48

say hi to him. Like more than

17:50

you do. He needs you to join the rugby

17:52

team, Andrew. Well,

17:55

we're gonna cry a little bit more

17:57

over Heartstopper and Andrew and Pat's adorable.

18:00

love story and we'll be back with more chatter

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that ad break, I also just canceled

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the couples therapy that I thought I

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needed to schedule. So the emergency session.

19:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Concerns over the love

19:50

for heart stopper. Uh, well,

19:53

we talked a little bit about what it was

19:55

that pulled us into this story, but I wanted

19:57

to make sure everybody got what they needed to

19:59

stay out. I think. It seems like what

20:02

really drew us in was the characters, and the

20:04

character development. I think that seems to be a

20:06

running theme so far. That

20:08

and the soundtrack for sure. I think

20:10

even in the first episode, it's Wolf

20:12

Alice, Don't Delete the Kisses plays, and

20:15

I love that song. There's

20:17

so many good tracks. Shura is

20:19

in there. I love Shura a

20:22

lot. There's so many good songs.

20:25

They're regardless of gender, a lot of

20:27

them will be like there's like saffos

20:29

in there. There's going to be a

20:31

lot of like, just I love you

20:33

songs and it's so applicable to the

20:36

moment. You're just like, this

20:38

is wonderful. This is perfect for this. Definitely

20:41

that I think every actor is well

20:43

cast, and

20:45

the full view of the characters is really

20:47

endearing. Yeah. Do you know

20:50

what's really funny? I think Pat will agree

20:52

with me here too. If you pick up

20:54

the graphic novels, it's crazy how much like

20:56

I know that it's a very like rudimentary

20:58

art style. It's crazy how much who they

21:00

cast looks like the drawings. Oh, yeah. Down

21:02

to like the list will be here for

21:04

Tao and stuff like that. It just looks

21:06

like they came right off the page. It's

21:08

insane. Yeah. Speaking of

21:10

the music, like I'm obsessed. Whoever

21:12

is the music coordinator for this

21:15

show is an absolute genius. Like

21:18

I love, like the past two

21:20

years, my Spotify wrapped has been

21:22

mostly Heartstopper stuff. Because

21:24

Spotify has great playlists where it literally

21:27

all the songs in order for both

21:29

seasons. So you can just kind

21:31

of relive the show as you're listening to it

21:33

as well. Oh. It's brought

21:36

me on to Baby Queen who has

21:38

exploded since this show has been on

21:40

because Baby Queen was one of Alice's

21:42

like favorite artists. Now I

21:44

think she's touring with Cindy Lauper this

21:46

year. Baby Queen is like, she's

21:49

huge now and her music is great.

21:52

Yeah, it's that's

21:55

all I listen to when I can't think like

21:57

if I want to be out of my pop-punk

21:59

emo phase. I go to Heartstopper. That's basically like

22:01

my life at this point. I see why you

22:03

were concerned. I get it now, absolutely. Right? Yeah.

22:07

Punk, Heartstopper music, which is kind of, you

22:09

know, it's good music, but it's also kind

22:11

of downbeat. Some songs are. It's kind of

22:13

the point where I hear some of the

22:16

Heartstopper soundtrack play, and I'm like, this is from

22:18

Heartstopper, isn't it? It's just a certain vibe you

22:21

get from the songs. It's indie pop. It's

22:24

sad bop, indie pop. Yeah.

22:27

Sad girl pop, yeah. Yeah. I

22:29

also wanted to know, cause you

22:31

know, we have a very diverse queer

22:34

panel here today. If there were any

22:36

aspects of the characters' experiences that y'all

22:38

found particularly authentic or that resonated with

22:40

you, like is this a good queer

22:43

rap? I think

22:45

it covers, yeah,

22:47

so many, I mean,

22:49

we have gay, lesbian,

22:51

transgender, bi, non-binary, asexual,

22:55

like it covers the gamut of

22:58

like, at least having one

23:01

person representing someone. Yeah.

23:03

I have like a specific situation,

23:06

but a lot of moments throughout

23:08

the first season, which is the season I've watched, really

23:12

stood out to me. A lot of the

23:14

lessons they're learning, a lot of what the show is

23:16

showing are things that I've

23:18

come to over time. But no, there's

23:21

a moment, it's Charlie's birthday

23:23

bowling party, and

23:26

Nick is there, but has

23:28

also agreed to another commitment.

23:30

And when I tell

23:32

you, like I was pretty much screaming

23:34

internally to watch Nick navigate sort of

23:36

this moment, because

23:39

he's somewhere that he wants

23:41

to be genuinely, but

23:43

also has a commitment to be somewhere where

23:45

he feels he has to be. And

23:48

I, in real life, tried to

23:50

do both and failed miserably. And

23:54

watching Nick not make the mistake that

23:56

I have made, it was

23:58

really, heartening

24:00

and just like I

24:02

fully get it. He felt like a real person

24:04

to me and he felt like me. So

24:07

I was very moved by sort

24:10

of that episode and all the

24:12

episodes honestly. But that's great. Speaking

24:14

of specific scenes and I'll call

24:16

out a specific character, Nick's mom

24:18

played by Olivia Coleman, who unfortunately

24:20

will not be in the next

24:22

season due to scheduling issues, she

24:24

said. But she is

24:26

so supportive to Nick when he finally

24:29

comes out. And I thought it was

24:31

so sweet because it shows you, maybe

24:33

let's say younger viewers, that if you've

24:35

been in the closet and you've been

24:38

really worried about coming out of the

24:40

closet, you can see the

24:42

scene in which Nick gets

24:44

nothing but unconditional love and support from

24:46

his mom. And that just feels good

24:48

to see and of course receive, especially

24:50

after you've been so stressed about coming

24:52

out to family. And Olivia Coleman, you

24:54

know, she's such, everybody wants Olivia Coleman

24:57

as their mom. It's like, she's just

24:59

like a lovely person. So I would

25:01

like to come out to Olivia Coleman

25:03

for fun one day. Yes.

25:06

Yeah. And looking

25:08

at background interviews

25:10

and stuff, her talking about that

25:13

scene specifically is so heartwarming.

25:15

Like we all know she's an amazing person.

25:17

So if you go and just look at

25:19

that interview, you'll fall in love with her

25:21

even more. That's something else about the show

25:23

that I think is not

25:25

only a good, but a

25:28

crucial portrayal of the LGBTQ

25:30

community. Every character's parents support

25:32

them. Full stop, without

25:34

question. Charlie's dad, who's in the

25:36

picture in season one, Nick's mom,

25:40

I think Tao's mom

25:42

supports Elle whenever she

25:44

comes over. It is so,

25:46

so, so crucial. Their lives are

25:48

not perfect, like I said, and

25:51

they do get shamed

25:53

or bullied at school by

25:56

peers, but everyone's parents are

25:58

on the level they are. understand how important

26:00

it is to support their kids, and they want

26:03

them to be happy. I can't think of how

26:05

many times Charlie's dad dropped him

26:07

off at something and really let him

26:09

know, hey, if something goes south, call

26:11

me. Like how meaningful

26:13

that is and how involved and

26:16

not involved they are in their kids

26:19

lives. Seems like the perfect balance. They

26:21

care about their kids. Yeah.

26:24

That's a really good point. One

26:26

thing I wanted to bring up, and I

26:28

guess this is a good place to do

26:30

it because, we also see these characters are

26:32

surrounded by people that really care for them

26:34

too, in terms of their friend groups and

26:36

even the teachers at the school. But

26:39

something that jumped out to me when I was rewatching

26:41

to prep for this show is, how

26:45

harsh Tao is a little bit

26:47

in terms of trying to get

26:49

Charlie to stop having feelings for

26:52

Nick. On one hand,

26:54

I understand that he's just being a

26:56

protective friend because he's probably seen how

26:59

awful it was for his friend prior

27:01

to this point. Did

27:04

that strike anybody

27:06

else here at all or was that

27:08

just me? No. I think by

27:11

episode three, I was thinking Tao is actually the

27:13

one who's in the worst shape mentally. I

27:15

really thought that I was bold for a

27:18

show to have LGBT characters with issues

27:20

and the straight one is the one that

27:22

is actually unraveling before our eyes. That

27:26

was my impression of it. I'm

27:29

glad that to the point where I've seen

27:32

in the show, I mean, Charlie

27:34

and Tao have had a talk and

27:36

it really seems like that's being reigned

27:38

in. But yeah,

27:40

with any friendship shakeup, what I

27:43

appreciated about the Tao character was

27:45

that he was torn between the

27:47

past and the future. How

27:50

do you look forward to the future if you

27:52

feel more alone? A lot of these characters have

27:54

a lot of self-doubt. I

27:56

did ultimately empathize with Tao and

27:59

I do find him But,

28:01

you know, there's some very deep stuff that's going

28:03

on with him that I, I bet

28:06

the show will continue to prod at.

28:08

I guess Tal's just trying

28:10

to be a protective friend and

28:12

there has to be some conflict somewhere.

28:14

So I suppose that's where

28:16

that is coming from. Yeah,

28:19

for sure. I'm just thinking about like, anytime

28:21

my friend tells me they have a crush, just like,

28:23

yeah, I'm manifesting that for you so hard. I

28:25

hope it works out. Aw, she's jealous.

28:28

But what will this do for me? How

28:30

will this affect me? But

28:33

I get that like, teenagers feel things so

28:35

much bigger than we do after

28:38

we develop as adults and, you

28:40

know, especially at the core of things he's... Especially at

28:42

first love. Yeah, and I know at the core of

28:44

it too, he's just worried about all his friends drifting

28:46

and he's trying so hard to be the glue. So,

28:49

it makes sense. Well,

28:51

I know that we've talked a lot

28:54

about the praise and how much Heartstopper

28:56

is worthy of praise, but I just

28:58

wanted to ask if there

29:00

was any instance in which the show missteps and

29:02

it's okay if the answer is no. For you

29:04

all, I just feel like we would be remiss

29:06

not to ask. Oh, like

29:08

for myself personally, I don't

29:11

think the show missteps in a lot of places.

29:13

There are parts where like, I

29:15

think more so for the graphic novels since I

29:17

am more like up

29:20

with that since I just finished reading him again.

29:23

There are times where I'm like, okay, teenagers don't

29:25

talk like that. This is very

29:27

like therapy speak, which is great. I think

29:29

that that is very much needed for

29:32

the show, especially with the things that they're going

29:34

through. But there are moments where I'm

29:36

like, okay, well, a teen just doesn't talk like that.

29:38

But I get it. I get why it's being said

29:41

for the age group that it's being

29:43

geared to. They need to hear that

29:45

kind of stuff, especially if they... Let's

29:49

say there is a queer teenager

29:51

watching this who's in, I don't

29:54

know, Alabama and their family won't let them or

29:56

they're too afraid to come out. They

29:58

need to hear that if they are. aren't able

30:00

to get to therapy in some way. So

30:03

it's like an afterschool special. Kind of,

30:06

yeah. Like they can get it in a way

30:08

that doesn't put them in jeopardy with their

30:11

family or their community. That makes a lot

30:13

of sense. Yeah. I mean,

30:15

if I'm trying to

30:17

share any complaints is that sometimes it is

30:19

too positive. It is good that that is

30:21

there, but sometimes it's like. You

30:24

like strict a little more fear into the youth. I did

30:26

not have this feeling, Andrew. I

30:29

did not personally. Well, that is kind of my

30:31

mild concern, Pam. Like

30:34

give them a little bit of fear

30:37

because it is a hard world they're

30:39

still coming into. Things have progressed tons

30:42

over the past few decades, but

30:44

there's still battles being fought every

30:47

day in the queer community. And

30:49

it's not all sunshine and rainbows,

30:51

but you know, all things

30:54

considered, I'm very happy with this show and that

30:56

it is a feel good show. I think we

30:58

do need this. Yeah,

31:00

I wasn't entirely clear what Tori's relationship was

31:03

to Charlie. She just kind of showed up

31:05

in his room once or twice, like the

31:07

first most of the season. Obviously

31:10

that wouldn't have been a problem in

31:12

the graphic novel, but

31:14

I think it's like the seventh episode or

31:16

so. She shows up

31:18

when he's contemplating something. He's just like, you just

31:20

showed up out of nowhere. And I was like,

31:22

oh, they know. They know that Tori just does

31:24

that. And they clarified the relationship. And I was

31:26

like, okay, this is great. They

31:29

did give her a little more to do in

31:31

season two, if I remember correctly. That's good. Yeah,

31:33

because I ultimately do wanna, and I know there's

31:35

a sibling and a parent of Nyx that I

31:38

haven't met yet, according to episode summaries. But yeah,

31:41

so I did peek ahead a little bit.

31:44

But yeah, I, for the most part, I'm

31:46

really pleased with the amount of time spent

31:48

with the various sort of

31:50

ensemble characters. The only

31:52

thing that I would say that like is misdone

31:55

or like kind of gets at me, it's

31:57

not the relentless positivity, but it is. whenever

32:00

you see Nick and Charlie take a leap,

32:02

but then the next episode, it takes them

32:04

back a little bit. Specifically

32:08

in season one, there's

32:10

this talk about telling each of their friends

32:12

that they're dating. Even

32:16

at the end of the show, there's

32:18

a very public scene where they could be

32:21

seen holding hands and the

32:23

next scene or two, they're talking about

32:25

whether or not they should announce their

32:27

relationship. It's like, you guys just did.

32:31

Nobody questions it anymore. We're

32:34

still on whether your boyfriend or girlfriend

32:36

or not. That stuff boggled me

32:38

when I was in high school and it

32:40

boggles me now. Official, unofficial,

32:43

boyfriend, not dating, seeing

32:45

each other, partners, whatever.

32:48

Maybe I'm just inclined to think

32:50

that it's all nonsensical or whatever,

32:53

but it matters to the

32:55

characters, so it does matter to me. Conflicts,

32:57

conflicts, conflicts. Conflicts. You want to find it

32:59

somewhere. Well,

33:01

I was going to say too, even

33:04

though the show is so positive, outside

33:07

of the show, there has

33:09

been some toxicity and

33:11

not with people who you

33:13

would think. It's not coming

33:16

from people who are anti

33:19

LGBTQ plus. It's not that,

33:21

it's from the fans themselves

33:24

are being a little toxic. With

33:26

Kit Connor who plays Nick Nelson,

33:29

he was basically forced to come

33:31

out as bi, just like his

33:33

character, by the fans because

33:35

everybody was speculating and they're like, oh my

33:37

God, he's hot. He has to be gay,

33:40

all of this. Basically, he

33:42

finally broke down on Twitter, maybe a

33:44

year and a half ago now, two

33:46

years ago and was like, hey, y'all,

33:49

clearly you're not getting the message of the

33:51

show, but I'm bi, that's it. Just

33:53

left it as that. It was really sad.

33:56

His tweet was, I'm bi, congrats

33:58

for forcing an 18 year old to out

34:01

himself. I think some of you missed the

34:03

point of the show by. It's

34:06

heartbreaking to read a message like that.

34:08

Clearly he was very frustrated

34:10

by what had transpired. Yeah, I can't imagine

34:12

the amount of like DMs and stuff that

34:15

he was getting. Cause like he wasn't in

34:17

much before this. Like he

34:19

was, he played young Elton

34:22

John and that movie about

34:24

him and like was really

34:26

in not much else. This was his first

34:28

bigger role. So you're getting

34:30

all of this attention right away because of

34:32

how like much of a phenomenon this was

34:35

that every, all these people. They

34:38

were accusing him of, or the show of

34:40

like queerbaiting or like. It's accusing him

34:43

of queerbaiting specifically, which

34:46

like, I mean, that

34:48

that's a bigger conversation, but it's,

34:51

you can't really like, I

34:53

don't think like a person can really

34:55

be accused of queerbaiting. The writers could

34:58

queerbait, but a person is

35:00

nuanced. And it's so silly to me that

35:02

the internet and especially fandom, the way fandom

35:04

operates is that first of all, like they

35:06

preach that everybody should be able to come

35:09

out on their own time. But then they

35:11

demand answers with regards to people's sexuality. Yeah.

35:14

Instead of accepting that

35:17

no confirmation either way still means

35:19

that that person could be queer

35:22

and just not ready to publicly

35:24

announce it. They automatically assume that

35:26

no confirmation means that they're straight

35:28

and they're queerbaiting. And it's really

35:31

dumb because it's not. And

35:33

also like, a lot of this started

35:35

because he got cast

35:37

in another adaptation. It's

35:39

a rom-com, I think it's called the

35:42

Cuban girls guy to tee in tomorrow.

35:45

And I guess he was seen out with that actress

35:47

and they were like, you see, he's straight. He's just

35:49

another straight guy. That's like taking away gay roles. And

35:51

it's like, five people exist y'all. Like

35:53

you can, there are a lot of people that.

35:55

There's not enough drama on the show. They need

35:57

to create it in real life with the cast.

35:59

I didn't come out to myself or to

36:01

the public until I was 19. So

36:05

like he said, like he was still figuring himself out. He's

36:09

only 18 years old when he did, when he was

36:11

forced to come out, basically. Like,

36:17

especially if you're trying to figure that out

36:19

and it's, it's so frustrating that,

36:21

that, that it, the fandom itself was toxic about a show that

36:23

is so positive. Yes.

36:28

Speaking of fandom drama,

36:30

this crosses over between Heartstopper and Harry Potter.

36:33

I'll share it real briefly. Sebastian

36:36

Croft plays Ben Hope, the

36:38

bully in Heartstopper. Sebastian

36:41

Croft also voiced the

36:44

lead character in Harry Potter, Hogwarts

36:47

Legacy, the video game that came out last

36:49

year. He got a lot of

36:51

backlash for taking that role in the Harry Potter video

36:53

game because people are saying,

36:56

how could you when JK Rowling,

36:58

she's transphobic and all that. Now

37:00

the concerns over JK Rowling are valid,

37:03

but Sebastian Croft is just looking to make

37:05

some coin. And he got offered

37:07

a sick role in the big Harry Potter video

37:09

game. Nobody should be

37:11

shaming an up and coming actor for taking

37:14

a role in a Harry Potter video game,

37:16

in my opinion, but he got attacked for

37:18

that too. And maybe the

37:20

attacks were harsher because he was in this

37:22

queer series. But

37:24

I was not happy that he was facing. And

37:27

he felt like he had to apologize

37:30

for taking the role. And like

37:32

he's done so I follow him on Instagram. He's hilarious and

37:34

just really funny anyways, but he does so much on the

37:36

outside too. Like he started

37:39

a charity where they released shirts of

37:41

like two dinosaurs with long necks, like

37:43

hugging each other. And it says like

37:45

queer was always here. Basically

37:47

like, look, dinosaurs are even

37:49

gay. So like it's always been around. Like

37:53

I love that he's like so positive

37:55

with that kind of stuff. But

37:57

I think all these people that were attacking him

37:59

too. aren't looking at all the other

38:01

stuff that he's doing. But he's an

38:03

actor, he's getting work, like booked and blessed. That's the

38:06

whole thing that they always say. Hollywood's

38:08

cutthroat, yeah. Yeah,

38:11

well that's the other thing too. I think

38:13

that people assume that nowadays you can come

38:15

out and still have a successful Hollywood career.

38:17

The truth of the matter is, it doesn't

38:19

always work out that way for people. Especially

38:22

people early on in their career. I

38:24

do not blame anybody that's young

38:29

and still up and coming for not wanting to

38:31

define themselves one way or the other. Yeah,

38:34

the show just deals with that so much. And

38:36

it even says, I think during the Tara storyline,

38:38

like how important it is to control your own

38:40

narrative. Like yeah,

38:42

you have the right to

38:45

come out on your own terms and it's

38:48

okay to not know something about yourself. Yes,

38:50

exactly. All right, so we're having a great

38:52

discussion here and we will wrap up this

38:55

discussion in a moment just after this break.

38:57

We'll be right back. Well,

38:59

speaking of narratives on the

39:03

show, I

39:05

wanted to look forward here because

39:08

a new season of Heartstopper is coming out

39:10

this October and

39:13

I wanted to know what everybody's little

39:15

wishlists are for what they're hoping to see. Eric and

39:17

I have just seen season one, but you

39:19

can still chime in here and let us know what you might

39:21

wanna see in the coming season so far. Oh

39:24

thanks. Awesome, we're having a great conversation here. I'm so

39:26

happy to have a really good conversation in

39:28

the coming seasons as well. Yeah, I mean

39:30

is graduation on the table eventually? I think they're

39:32

what, year 10 and year 11 in

39:35

the first season? Presumably

39:37

they'd be getting on with their lives. I

39:39

wanna see what sort of

39:41

sunny, optimistic outlook the show

39:43

that has not so far dealt with

39:45

the COVID pandemic has on the job

39:47

market. I wanna see what happens. What

39:50

are these kids gonna do when they

39:52

grow up? What are they doing for

39:54

work? Can people get

39:56

jobs? Are their interviewers gonna call them

39:58

back? Maybe I'm projecting. because

40:01

I'm on a job hunt, but I

40:03

just want to see how long this

40:05

feel-good positivity lasts when they grow up

40:07

and have to face the real world

40:09

and not their sheltered school lives. That's

40:11

a good point. To Andrew's point about

40:13

more darkness. Yeah. I don't

40:15

mean more darkness. Give me the optimistic

40:17

version of the job market. Please. I'm

40:20

begging you. So volume six of Heartstopper,

40:23

the comic series, is going

40:25

to be the last one, but I could

40:27

see Netflix, and maybe Alice Oseman will change

40:30

her mind, but I could see Netflix trying

40:32

to take this further into adulthood. I mean,

40:34

these kids are still quite young. There's so

40:36

much more story they could tell. She

40:39

has said that they aren't. She

40:42

said that she can tell their whole story in

40:45

two more seasons, and that is all that

40:47

there will be. So right now. Would

40:49

that be season three and season four or season

40:51

four and season five? Season

40:53

three and four. So with the... I

40:57

only saw this just because the end of the fifth

40:59

one gives you a calendar of what the timeline is.

41:02

So from the beginning of season

41:04

one to where we are at the

41:06

end of volume five is only a

41:10

year and a half. So that's all

41:12

they're going through. And then there is

41:14

a spin-off like novella called Nick and

41:16

Charlie, which is Nick's

41:18

first year at university. So

41:22

that would take place in the following

41:24

year. So it's really I think

41:26

the whole series itself will only cover about

41:28

like two, two and a half years. Nolke.

41:31

So Pat, as somebody who's so well versed,

41:34

what spoiler free elements do

41:37

you think listeners and viewers should be

41:39

expecting in Heartstopper? And then what are

41:41

you hoping to see more of going

41:43

forward? Do you have anything? It's

41:45

really hard to say without having

41:48

spoilers. I

41:50

did say a little bit before it does

41:53

go into more mental health talk. So

41:56

I really, really hope that they pull that

41:58

off in a way that doesn't... doesn't

42:00

make people feel like they can't talk about

42:02

it. You know what I mean? Like, just

42:05

like personally with my own anxiety, it took

42:07

so long to be able to talk

42:09

about it and admit it to myself. So

42:11

I hope that this show is able to like get

42:14

teens or even adults our

42:17

age, like it's okay to talk

42:19

about it. Please talk about it. It's going to be

42:21

more about the mental health. Yeah. Yeah.

42:24

And to that point, there is one aspect that as

42:26

much as it like, it makes me

42:28

feel like there's like a dead weight in my

42:30

stomach. I am looking forward to seeing how they

42:32

tackle that because it's a subject

42:35

that I think Hollywood and

42:37

the media very rarely portrays

42:39

well, but Heartstopper has

42:41

a good track record. So I'm really

42:45

looking forward to seeing how they tackle

42:47

that personally. And I think if they

42:49

keep the, like I didn't mention before,

42:51

but so many pages of the graphic

42:54

novel are frame for frame,

42:57

word for word shot for the show. Like

43:00

if they continue to do that

43:02

in those scenes that

43:04

are so important, if they do the

43:06

exact same thing with adapting them, it

43:08

will be successfully done then. I have

43:11

high confidence in that. Well, I think

43:13

we can all agree here that we

43:15

think Heartstopper is worth the hype, but

43:17

in case anybody listening is still maybe

43:19

on the fence for whatever reason, why

43:21

do y'all think they should give this

43:23

a shot? Don't you like joy? Don't

43:25

you like happiness? Don't you like loyal

43:27

adaptations? In

43:29

some ways it is a standard

43:31

queer coming of age romance, but

43:35

between the diverse cast, the

43:37

overall feel good atmosphere that you get

43:39

here versus other

43:42

queer content, and

43:44

then you throw on 10 extra heapings

43:46

of cute, it is an

43:49

original show that I think

43:51

everybody, queer or not,

43:53

should be watching because we

43:56

all need feel good shows, and this is

43:58

a feel good show that's easy to get

44:00

through. 30-minute episodes, eight-episode seasons.

44:03

Yes. I second all of that. If

44:06

you don't watch it, you're homophobic and I don't make

44:08

the rules. He's

44:10

allowed to say that during Pride Month. Any other

44:12

month, that's a little too much. Yes.

44:17

I have said this earlier, but I

44:19

found so many things in the

44:21

first season alone that are so relevant

44:23

to my life. There's

44:26

wisdom, relatable emotions

44:29

across all the characters. I

44:31

would say it's essential viewing,

44:34

honestly, for people. There's

44:36

so much going on in

44:38

addition to the feel-good love story that

44:41

it feels important.

44:45

It is important and it's important because

44:47

younger generations can watch this series and

44:50

read these novels and know that it

44:52

gets better. It can get better. It

44:54

will get better. You will

44:56

probably feel inspired to live your true self

44:59

after seeing this if you are currently in

45:01

the closet. There's people out there that

45:03

are ready to love you too. I think that

45:05

that's really what's at the heart of this, right?

45:07

Yeah. Yeah, that's a

45:10

really good way to put it. Well,

45:13

Pat, thank you so much for joining us. I feel

45:16

like we couldn't have done this episode without you, especially

45:18

knowing how big of a fan you are. Thank

45:20

you for having me. I

45:22

will always talk about Heartstopper, so I'm

45:25

ready. Did you want to let people know where

45:27

they can find you online if they want to go hang

45:29

out with you? Sure. I am

45:31

on all the social medias. My

45:34

handle is trickfin, trick underscore fin.

45:36

Last part of my first name, first part of my last name. I'm

45:40

sure you will be posting about Heartstopper

45:42

on threads this October when it comes

45:44

out. Anytime I see

45:46

news on Instagram, I reshare it to my story.

45:50

Alice was just watching it and read

45:53

like in the editing bay for

45:55

this new season, like this past week. So

45:57

yeah, that's official Heartstopper

45:59

course. Yeah. Yeah,

46:01

yeah. So thank you

46:03

to all who've listened to our

46:06

first episode on Heartstopper. We

46:08

are a new show. So we do need

46:10

your support. You can do

46:12

this in a myriad of ways, but first

46:15

and foremost, please follow us in your podcast

46:17

app and also consider leaving us a review.

46:20

It's really going to help make the show

46:22

a success and find an even wider audience

46:24

than we've ever had before, which we're ambitious

46:27

about. And it's also really

46:29

important now versus later because we're new, just

46:31

starting out and really looking to reach more

46:33

people. Yeah. And thank you

46:35

to those who have submitted reviews. Kyle

46:38

said, after listening to these hosts'

46:40

other show, Mugglecast for 19 years,

46:42

so thrilled to hear their takes

46:44

on more general pop culture phenomenon

46:47

with such a great panel format.

46:49

And Renee says, really enjoy these first couple

46:52

episodes and just know that this will be

46:54

an excellent show. After listening

46:56

to these hosts for literal decades, I just

46:58

know the show will continue to keep the

47:00

bar high for podcasting. Great

47:02

personalities, smooth conversation transitions, a

47:05

sense of humor, and so

47:07

well researched and edited. Aw,

47:10

thank you Renee and Kyle. It also makes me feel old. And

47:13

everybody else who's left the review, we

47:15

appreciate that. Literal decades. Spam, literal decades.

47:17

Literal decades. I

47:20

feel that in my creaky dusty bones. Now

47:22

that I have been on, I'll leave a

47:24

review for you guys. Oh, okay. Thank you

47:27

so much. That latest

47:29

guest was hot. The Heartstop

47:31

episode was amazing. More

47:33

Pat. Listeners,

47:35

don't forget to follow us on

47:38

social media. We're on TikTok, YouTube,

47:40

Twitch, and Instagram as What the

47:42

Hype Podcast. And our

47:44

website is whatthehypepodcast.com. On

47:46

X we are What the Hype Show. And

47:48

if you want to email us

47:50

about anything, you can drop us

47:53

a line at whatthehypepodcast.gmail.com. And

47:56

there is also a contact form and the

47:58

option to leave a voicemail through. through what

48:00

the hype podcast.com. And you know, a friend

48:02

or family member who's obsessed with heart stopper.

48:05

If you do be sure to share this

48:07

episode with them and tell them we're walking

48:09

through every aspect of pop culture each week.

48:12

All right, that's it. Thanks so much. That's

48:15

the hype. That's the hype. Bye,

48:17

everyone. Bye. Bye.

48:31

Bye.