0:05

Primary care is an innovative, alternative

0:08

path to insurance driven health care. Typically,

0:12

a patient pays their doctor a low monthly

0:14

membership and in return,

0:16

builds a lasting relationship with their doctor

0:18

and has their doctor available at their

0:20

fingertips. Welcome

0:22

to the My DPC Story podcast, where

0:25

each week, You will hear the ever so

0:27

relatable stories shared by physicians who

0:29

have chosen to practice medicine in their individual

0:31

communities through the direct primary

0:33

care model. I'm your host, Marielle

0:36

Conception, family physician, DPC

0:39

owner, and former fee for service doctor.

0:42

I hope you enjoy today's episode and

0:44

come away feeling inspired about the future

0:46

of patient care, direct primary

0:49

care. Well,

0:53

welcome. Welcome, everyone. I am so

0:55

excited to be joined by two special

0:57

guests today. So let me go

0:59

straight introductions. I will first introduce

1:01

Zach Holdsworth. You've heard from him on the podcast before,

1:04

but Zach is the CEO and co founder

1:06

of Hint Health. For those of you who don't know, Hint

1:08

is the leading tech company focused on the

1:10

growth and success of the direct primary

1:12

care movement. He is also joined

1:15

today by Dr. Janine Rodhams, a fellow family

1:17

physician who has been in practice for over

1:19

two decades in Santa Cruz, California, and

1:21

she is a fierce advocate for DPC.

1:24

So welcome Zach and Janine.

1:26

Thanks for having us. Thank you.

1:27

So this episode is really

1:29

focusing in on DPC

1:31

going into the future. We are at

1:33

such a pivotal point in health care in this country,

1:35

especially with patients,

1:38

physicians, and everybody who's involved

1:40

in health care wanting and demanding

1:42

change. So appropriately, this

1:44

year is celebrating Hintz eighth

1:46

year hosting Hintz Summit. And

1:48

this year the title is appropriately Elevating

1:51

Healthcare, DPC's Climb to

1:53

Mainstream. So with that, I

1:55

want to get into what does it mean for DPC

1:57

to go into the mainstream. One thing

1:59

I want to point out here is that Zach,

2:02

Janine and I, and Sidney, who's not on

2:04

the call, of Michie Health we're all on a team

2:06

lobbying in D. C. early in the spring, and

2:09

for me, it was clear as we were going around

2:11

to the different staffers offices and the different senators

2:13

and, and representatives offices that

2:15

stories matter. So, can you

2:18

each speak to what does it mean to you

2:20

to think about DPC going into the mainstream

2:23

and how do we harness the power of stories

2:25

to help the DPC movement go forward.

2:27

Yeah. So I think, historically DPC

2:30

has been a physician

2:32

led grounds up movement. There's been a lot of push

2:35

that's needed to happen to kind of get

2:37

that flywheel effect going. And

2:40

my view is, is that what we're starting to see, and

2:42

that's something that's super exciting, is that

2:45

we're starting to see it become more of a pull,

2:47

right? when we were on, on the Hill with you, with

2:50

the two of you, I actually was like, playing

2:52

more of a supporting role. I said, Oh, I was like, I'm like the

2:54

bodyguard, right? But the thing I,

2:56

there's one stuff where I can't remember who he was, but I remember

2:59

one of you told a story. And you

3:01

could see he kind of on the front end, he's

3:03

like, I don't really have time for this, but I have to do this.

3:06

Halfway through there was a moment where it clicked

3:08

for him, and you could actually see his posture

3:11

change. He led, he actually lent

3:13

in and then he actually went and got another

3:15

guy, brought another one out, right?

3:17

And so it was just like that, a very

3:20

stark difference. And I think it was as

3:22

a result of the stories you were telling about the care

3:25

you're delivering to patients, right? Like that, that

3:27

was the, the moment, right? DPC

3:29

is becoming, the stories of success,

3:31

the success stories with DPC both

3:34

in terms of patient success, right? Really

3:36

just awesome, stories

3:39

from patients who had, who spread the word of

3:41

the amazing experience they're getting. The

3:43

kind of stories from physicians who are saying,

3:45

Hey, listen, I've really transformed my life. I really

3:47

transformed the love of medicine, right? Encouraging

3:49

other physicians to go in as

3:52

well. We can just follow this movement. But

3:54

also importantly, we're starting to see kind

3:56

of the narrative on the employer and advisor

3:58

or broker side of things as well. Yeah. Where folks

4:01

are saying, instead of having to educate the market

4:03

on like, what is this new thing, it's off to

4:05

the side. What we're starting to see

4:08

is actually that's turning

4:10

into a, kind of more of a pull, where people actually

4:12

come in seeking out DPC. And

4:15

that's really something that I've

4:17

observed quite, quite

4:20

a lot actually in the last few years. Actually one example

4:22

will be as. I

4:25

would often be, not invited to speak

4:27

at conferences because,

4:29

but, and, but now actually what's happening and people are saying,

4:31

Hey, can you come and speak on this topic? It's

4:34

a small story, but but something

4:36

that is. Yeah, I

4:38

thought it was really interesting as well.

4:39

This is so, uh, full scope moment right here,

4:41

Zach, when you are talking, because I

4:44

didn't even know what DBC was in 2018

4:46

and it's because of Janine sitting

4:49

down with me at a table for an hour and a half, explaining

4:52

to me what DPC was and I was

4:54

sitting there overwhelmed, but totally transformed

4:56

in terms of, I didn't even know that

4:58

this is a possibility. She said to me,

5:00

in a month it's going to be Hint Summit. And that was my first

5:02

summit back in 2019 in San Francisco.

5:05

So it's so awesome to be talking with you both

5:07

and talking about the importance of stories because stories

5:09

are definitely proven to make change. So

5:12

Janine, What does it mean for you to see

5:14

dPC going into the mainstream and

5:16

how do we, continue to

5:18

to help the movement with our stories,

5:21

especially given that you have been in DPC

5:23

for quite some time, almost 10 years now.

5:25

Right. We've been, doing our model.

5:27

We're in our ninth year right now, and

5:30

we're at a point where we're seeing

5:33

that the community has finally recognized

5:35

that what we are doing is

5:38

so much, so much better than what

5:40

is available in medicine right now

5:42

in terms of the continuity of care. And.

5:45

The help and the, the

5:47

value and the relationships

5:50

and the trust that that continuity,

5:52

uh, generates in our model of care. I

5:55

think it's fascinating to see that our

5:57

stories collectively are beginning

5:59

to encourage other docs

6:01

to say, Hey, is this not something

6:03

maybe I can do? And

6:06

we are seeing those stories

6:08

and people are even coming to us to

6:10

look at what we've been doing to

6:12

help assist. to them to open these

6:14

practices across our state

6:17

and provide that advisory role

6:19

for even across the country. I've

6:22

just excited that this

6:24

is beginning to enter mainstream.

6:26

I do think it is the, it's

6:29

the powerful model that will bring

6:31

us back to our roots

6:33

as primary care physicians. To

6:36

practice medicine the way we were trained to do

6:38

and do what we

6:40

consider appropriate in terms of care

6:43

and that relationship with our

6:45

patients and being able to maintain

6:47

that continuity. Those are the stories

6:49

that are pushing this

6:52

movement forward. And,

6:54

uh, it's just exciting to see

6:57

the growth, uh, that's occurred

6:59

over these last nine years.

7:01

One of the things I've also observed

7:03

is even just the need to explain

7:05

what DPC is, right, two or

7:07

three years ago, people like, what, what is that? Is

7:09

that, what is your, what is it? What are you talking about?

7:12

Now? It's actually like, oh, that's interesting. I've heard

7:14

about that. Tell me more. So I think we're

7:16

kind of going through different

7:18

sort of a different phase of growth

7:21

in the, in the movement where people are actually starting

7:23

to Yeah. understand it, and now

7:25

it's more about how do we help accelerate that

7:28

narrative and help bring people along. Without

7:30

needing the, really the hard part of kind

7:33

of almost explaining what it is. And the problem

7:35

with DPC is when you explain it, it's almost like

7:37

too good to be true. So people

7:39

are like, yeah, I mean, it can't, obviously that's

7:41

not going to be the case for us. It's like too good to be true.

7:44

So now that the, the, the, the, the narrative

7:46

is out there, people are actually saying, Hey, maybe

7:49

this is real. Let's, let's go find out more.

7:51

it's so true. You, you really hear it from

7:53

both patients and physicians. I hear patients

7:55

all the time, as I'm sure, you do too, Janine, especially.

7:58

Oh, I wish we could have access to our doctors.

8:00

I wish, medicine wouldn't be so,

8:03

uh, unaffordable. I, I wish that, and

8:05

then, We, especially as a DPC

8:07

doctor, I'm sure you did this too, we

8:09

look and we're like, but that's what we're already

8:12

doing. And physicians are sitting

8:14

there and that's why they're coming to ask

8:16

DPC physicians like yourself who are, wanting

8:19

to find out if there's

8:21

a different way to do it. And I love that people are asking

8:23

about, is there a different way? Because

8:25

even if they don't know that there's a problem, they're,

8:28

they're feeling it out as they, do one

8:30

more code in their clinic. So the

8:32

other thing too, though, is that what I love about

8:34

this movement right now, and the time that we are

8:36

in this movement, is that not only

8:38

are the stories continuing to explain

8:42

You know, in relatable terms what we're doing,

8:44

but now we have data to back up what we're

8:46

doing. So the proof is in the pudding, not

8:49

only through stories, but actual data. And

8:51

Zach, at Hint you have a unique role

8:53

in understanding and visualizing

8:55

that data. So can you speak to us

8:57

today about the signs that you've

8:59

seen over time? What data

9:02

are you seeing that's pointing to greater

9:04

adoption of DPC.

9:06

Yeah, for sure. Of the data points

9:08

is that just the growth of actual DPC clinics,

9:10

right? And so there's now, over 3,

9:13

500 DPCs. Directionally we're seeing consistently

9:15

greater than 20 percent a year growth in

9:17

new DPC clinics. That's,

9:19

and that's been since we've been tracking, right?

9:22

So for a number of years and

9:24

the, a few years ago, we conducted a research

9:26

report we were actually going to be refreshing

9:29

that probably in the next 12 months or so, but

9:31

there's over a four

9:33

year period from 2018 to 2022,

9:36

it's a little bit old, but I think the trend's still

9:39

there is that there's been an over 800

9:41

percent growth rate in number of employers

9:43

that are adopting DPC. So now there's,

9:45

Just on the Hint platform, more than 6, 000

9:47

employers across, uh,

9:50

across all the DPCs that are running on Hint.

9:52

So that's just incredible. And

9:54

we're also seeing kind of another

9:56

really interesting data point that, where,

9:59

uh, practices are actually increasingly

10:01

adding clinicians in second locations.

10:04

We're actually going to drill in and try to get, kind of,

10:06

more granular statistics on that.

10:08

But, but there's a definite pattern there,

10:10

which we're seeing that kind of success of that first

10:13

clinic is precipitating

10:15

in either, adding doctors

10:17

or clinicians into that clinic. or

10:20

just spinning up new ones, in the town next

10:22

door, things like that. So that's another pattern we're seeing, which

10:24

is really compelling. Because

10:26

it's, again, it's lowering the friction for, let's say,

10:28

not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur, right? Sometimes

10:31

if you're a doctor, you just want to be a doctor. So

10:34

the ability to go and come out of residency and go

10:36

join a DPC clinic like that opens

10:38

up another avenue for growth.

10:40

And then perhaps the last thing, Which I,

10:43

I actually made a double take on this number.

10:46

But just in the last 12 months

10:48

alone, the growth

10:50

in patient volume, again this is HINT data,

10:52

not necessary industry data, but

10:54

there's been a 46 percent growth rate

10:56

in total members, active members.

10:59

Alright, and that includes churn across

11:01

the HINT database. Which actually

11:03

is really quite incredible. Like, that's

11:05

a, that's a high, that's a lot, right?

11:08

And that's a combination of new clinics as well as

11:10

clinics, uh, adding doctors

11:12

and then those doctors getting their panels

11:14

filled, right? So you have that. So

11:16

that's just some of the data. But, and then, You could keep

11:19

going on and on, but it's pretty good, right?

11:21

It's just incredible. It's, it's one

11:23

thing to be a DPC physician,

11:25

but In the, 30 minutes

11:27

to 90 minute visit, uh, with your

11:29

patient and then it's really awesome

11:32

to take a step back and see how DPC

11:34

around us is growing more physicians

11:37

choosing to, to do this type of medicine

11:39

because, like you said, Janine, it really speaks

11:41

to how much people loved, having

11:44

the time to take care of their patients, The

11:47

patient's love not being rushed with their doctors

11:49

and the value of the relationship between the physician

11:51

and their patient to be able to prevent

11:53

illness and to be able to, get accessible

11:56

care when one needs to. So

11:59

when we talk data, I want to ask you, Janine,

12:01

from your perspective, can you speak to

12:03

the data that's out there, that you talk

12:05

to others about, especially when other

12:07

physicians are coming to you to learn about DPC

12:10

and how data in

12:12

general can help make this movement stronger

12:15

future.

12:17

Well, when I speak to other physicians, typically

12:19

it's people who are interested. We

12:21

speak with residents locally

12:24

to get them exposed to the model of care.

12:26

Some of them are in total disbelief at

12:29

both the simplicity, like you, like Zach

12:31

had said, and how does

12:33

this really work? Uh, we, we

12:35

talk about things like reducing

12:38

uh, overall cost. I think the Millman

12:41

study came out with 20 percent

12:43

reduction in overall cost from the model. I

12:45

think we've seen a variety of Estimates

12:47

of that being somewhere between 20 and 30

12:49

percent, we, we're now seeing the

12:51

Millman group re re

12:54

perform that study with sort

12:56

of a broader base of, physician

12:58

practices in order to get

13:01

even more detail as

13:03

to how the model is saving, uh,

13:05

expenses in the current healthcare system.

13:08

The other things that we focus on with physicians

13:11

is total patient load. We

13:13

are not. A model that sees,

13:15

uh, 4, 000 patients, which is

13:18

what some of our local groups are actually forcing

13:20

physicians into at this point, and it's

13:23

really unmanageable. We

13:25

have a smaller profile of

13:27

the number of patients per physician, and

13:29

that's much more manageable for each of the

13:31

independent practices and

13:33

that's something that they can also negotiate

13:36

in terms of work life balance. balance

13:38

as to how much work is involved with, with

13:40

the pool of patients that they have. I

13:43

think there's often a lot of criticism in the model

13:45

about not seeing enough patients, but

13:47

I do think that part

13:49

of the attraction

13:51

to the model And the ability to

13:54

actually maybe bring more physicians into

13:57

primary care and DPC is to show

13:59

a model that actually is a reasonable,

14:02

patient platform, that

14:04

is manageable, allows you to do the work that

14:06

you, are committed to doing. And so,

14:09

I think those are sort of the, the points

14:11

that we emphasize, uh, with other

14:13

physicians when we talk to them about

14:16

how we're doing this and what we're doing. The,

14:18

the other component that has been a little

14:20

bit difficult to

14:23

obtain from our perspective is,

14:25

what sort of metrics do you use

14:27

to be able to gauge how

14:30

you're doing relative to

14:32

the model of care? And

14:34

we, you'll hear a little bit more

14:36

about how we're beginning to approach

14:39

patient centered metric to

14:41

be able to evaluate. What

14:43

our practice is doing more from a patient's

14:46

opinion approach rather than

14:48

a strict metric approach to

14:50

be able to validate

14:53

that we are doing good work and

14:55

that we don't necessarily need to record

14:57

every hemoglobin

14:59

A1C in order to show that we are

15:01

doing excellent work for our patients.

15:04

I'm sure that there's people in the audience who just

15:06

shake their head at 4000 people

15:08

on a panel. That's more than 10

15:11

patients a day working 365

15:13

days a year. So forget vacation,

15:16

forget, spending time with your family. That's

15:18

not important. You got to see over 10 patients

15:20

a day. 365 days a year. Does

15:22

that sound palatable? No, not to patients, not

15:25

to physicians. So it is so crazy

15:27

that when a resident is going

15:29

into choosing where

15:31

they're going to practice. I'm

15:33

very proud that residents are asking

15:36

the question of, like, how many people do you have on your

15:38

panel? When we talk about metrics. It

15:41

probably evokes some PTSD in

15:43

people because people are so

15:45

sick of how the way that metrics have

15:47

been put into meaningless use

15:49

data that is not helping our health care

15:52

system, one of the things that you mentioned

15:54

is really focusing on what actually matters.

15:57

One example of how powerful

15:59

a Patient centered data is is coming

16:01

from the person centered primary care measure

16:04

from the Larry Green Center. And it's a

16:06

great example. Dr. Ellison Edwards, a fellow DPC

16:08

doctor, used that in her clinic and other

16:11

other doctors like Dr. Ben Akin, who

16:13

was just previously on the podcast, use

16:15

that as well. And it's, it's a very different

16:18

way of using study

16:21

of your patients to help your practice

16:23

and to help the movement rather than to

16:26

generate codes. So I

16:28

respect the PTSD feeling that somebody

16:30

may have hearing metrics and

16:32

codes in the same sentence, but

16:35

they are not necessarily the same.

16:37

just One thing I wanted to mention is your

16:39

stat around your 365 years,

16:41

days in a year, and so it's 10 patients

16:43

a day. The way it stacks up is you actually

16:45

probably have, I don't know, back of the envelope,

16:47

200 days a year or the amount of

16:49

actual functional working time there is.

16:52

And so actually what it, what it ends up being

16:54

is actually 20 patients a day, which

16:57

actually, I could see a world where Conceivably,

16:59

you could still have a 45 minute meeting

17:02

with 10 patients and that'd be a pretty intense

17:04

day. But what we're seeing is actually 20

17:06

to 30 visits a day in a traditional

17:08

fee for service model and

17:11

to your point, Janine, the argument

17:13

that while reducing the number of patients you see

17:15

is actually going to hurt the primary care system, to

17:17

me, that's a logical fallacy, right? the

17:19

Reason there's a shortage of physicians is

17:22

because they're seeing 20 to 30 patients

17:24

a day and are, you know, not

17:26

fulfilling the love of medicine and delivering the type of care they

17:28

want to do. If we can fix that fundamental

17:31

problem, right, actually make

17:33

this the type of care that, that doctors

17:35

want to go into, then it'll

17:37

ultimately, over the long term horizon,

17:39

fix the fundamental problem.

17:41

So for those, who are not

17:43

familiar with the patient centered primary

17:45

care measure what are examples

17:47

of the questions that are involved

17:49

in a type of study like that?

17:51

these are, uh, metrics

17:53

that are centered

17:56

around how the patient has experienced

17:58

the practice. And so they're, They're important

18:01

for things like, that my doctor

18:03

cares for all factors that

18:05

affect my health. The practice

18:07

makes it easy for me to get care.

18:09

My doctor and I have been through a lot together.

18:12

The care that I get in this

18:15

practice is informed by knowledge of my family

18:17

and of my community, where these

18:19

are much more relevant. To

18:21

how we should be functioning in primary

18:24

care, and helpful

18:26

to the practice to know whether or not

18:28

there are some issues in terms of,

18:31

is there a communication area that we need

18:33

to work on? Are we, appropriately.

18:35

Approaching our patients, uh,

18:38

healthcare goals and I think we

18:40

will get a lot of good information

18:42

as direct primary care practices

18:44

from this type of approach that,

18:47

if we can come up with an easy

18:49

method for direct primary care practices

18:51

to be able to do this work,

18:54

that we will be able to show

18:56

some data about our quality

18:59

and efficacy going forward.

19:00

One of the things that we're going to be helping kind of get

19:03

the word out across our, ecosystem.

19:06

And so we'll be targeting,

19:08

a fairly substantial number of clinics getting involved

19:10

in this. We're actually planning to

19:12

at the Hint Summit kind of present the early,

19:14

the sort of first, there's multiple phases, but it'll

19:17

be results from the first phase

19:19

so that she presented live at Hint Summit, which

19:21

will be super exciting by Janine

19:23

and Amy.

19:24

What matters to our practices is

19:26

making sure that our patients are valuing

19:29

the service that we're, we're delivering, making sure

19:31

that, we're delivering good evidence based medicine,

19:33

that patients have access because our patients

19:35

at the end of the day are investing in us, you made a very

19:37

good point. It's a way for us to learn about

19:40

how we're delivering the care. And

19:42

it's a way for us because we have the autonomy

19:44

that we do in DPC to be able to make

19:46

changes that positively help

19:49

our practices going forward. Let

19:51

me ask you, because of, our experience

19:53

in D. C. earlier this year, Janine,

19:56

if you can recall any stories

19:58

that speak to the answers to those

20:01

patient centered primary questions, how

20:03

they impacted the people, like, who, who's,

20:05

saw it, like, leaning forward.

20:06

Using some of the stories from

20:09

our patients about

20:11

the continuity of care that we provide.

20:13

We are a practice that still does

20:15

our hospital work. So, our

20:18

patients who do wind up in a

20:20

hospital setting are still seeing

20:22

us and we are providing their

20:24

care through that. Silo

20:26

of care in a sense that does occur in

20:29

the fee for service world. Their,

20:31

gratitude over us providing

20:34

the continuity has been,

20:37

just an amazing

20:39

part of the relationship that we've been able

20:41

to generate as physicians with our

20:43

patients that trust

20:46

that allows us to To prevent

20:48

going into the emergency department in the middle

20:50

of the night when we're able to talk to our patients

20:53

and say, Hey we can do these

20:55

things. Let's see you tomorrow. The increase

20:57

in access that our model is able to

21:00

perform where we can see people

21:02

right away and they're not waiting three months to

21:04

see their primary care physician. These

21:06

are some of the things that we talked about when we were

21:08

on our trip to Washington

21:10

DC to, help support.

21:13

The, Direct Primary Care Coalition's,

21:15

uh, work with the

21:18

Medicaid Primary Care Improvement Act

21:20

and the Primary Care Enhancement Acts

21:23

that we've been trying to put forward

21:25

for both better Medicaid access

21:27

in innovation projects, uh, with

21:30

removal of the waiver that, innovation

21:32

centers have been putting forward, and

21:34

then also to help with defining

21:36

the HSA issue that is, present

21:39

in the DPC model of care

21:42

that we've been working on for a number

21:44

of years.

21:45

I definitely would encourage people to read Dr. Garrison

21:47

Bliss's article that he wrote for DPC News

21:49

where the group of people who were

21:52

Lobbying in D. C. Independent physicians

21:54

sitting across the table from companies like

21:57

Amazon and Boeing. Listen to

21:59

the coalition meeting that happened before

22:01

we actually went and talk to staffers. It's quite

22:03

interesting. And I think that this speaks

22:05

to how, uh, impactful

22:08

it can be when others get involved. So,

22:11

more stakeholders in this movement get involved,

22:13

patients, brokers, physicians tech

22:15

companies, people who are with, solutions

22:18

to help us deliver the care that we

22:20

want to and that we can deliver

22:22

through DPC. How can different stakeholders

22:25

take an active role in, continuing

22:28

to help DPC go mainstream,

22:30

and get greater adoption nationwide.

22:33

Yeah. I mean, one of the things I think is

22:35

really important, the power of story is really

22:37

important, obviously. And I think, company tech

22:39

companies and anyone out there, we can help

22:41

share the stories

22:43

of patients positions. And I think amplifying that message

22:46

is really powerful. One of the things I

22:48

think is actually quite important and maybe kind of

22:50

under thought about, I guess,

22:52

is getting as an industry

22:54

consistent with how we communicate

22:57

and the way we talk about DPC

22:59

and the, I think the consistency

23:01

of the language, I think actually

23:03

is important. At Hint Summit, Kenneth Q

23:06

is going to be doing a talk specifically

23:08

actually on this around how

23:10

can we help, DPC go mainstream

23:12

through like common language and common,

23:14

certain kind of common threads in terms of stories.

23:17

But diving in and, you mentioned tech vendors, obviously

23:19

we're, we're, we support, we partner with

23:22

DPCs as a technology company.

23:24

And one of the things that I

23:27

think is really important

23:29

and I'd love to see more of

23:32

as Often when, tech

23:34

vendors or vendors will kind of come to

23:36

serve DPC, they'll often be

23:39

in service of many different things and

23:41

then they'll also support DPC. The thing

23:43

I'd love to see is groups coming

23:45

and saying, hey, we're actually going to be our primary focus

23:47

is going to be DPC. I think the industry

23:50

is getting to a scale where That you

23:52

actually build a business there now,

23:54

right? So and say, Hey, we actually like, we,

23:56

we really understand the unique aspect of DPC

23:59

and that's something we've been doing since day one and

24:01

is really passionate about. But I think the

24:03

industry is growing such that actually

24:06

more and more groups can do that.

24:08

I would agree with Zach that our language

24:10

does need to be a little bit more cohesive

24:13

in terms of how we describe ourselves

24:15

and how we are coming together

24:17

as a movement. I also would like

24:20

to caution that We should

24:22

always maintain that focus of

24:24

the doctor patient relationship. That's

24:26

the critical component. And

24:28

as long as we kind of keep that centered

24:30

focus, what has happened in the

24:32

fee for service world with

24:35

outside interests really

24:37

losing that focus I think we will

24:39

be able to hold it together and maintain

24:41

the growth while we go forward in the direct

24:44

primary care movement.

24:45

Another point I was going to make just for

24:47

current DPC practices one

24:50

of the most powerful ways to spread the word

24:52

is by kind of educating

24:54

your peers and residents, right? And it's

24:56

like, it's a, it is a physician driven

24:59

movement, right? So continue

25:01

that pressure, right? Continue that advocacy

25:03

because that's super powerful.

25:05

We've tried to maintain links locally

25:08

in our residency programs.

25:10

We have, the local Natividad

25:12

center here in, uh, Monterey,

25:15

we have a new residency coming up in Santa Cruz County

25:18

and we are a component of both

25:20

groups in their practice management

25:22

rotations. So we are there to help. be

25:25

accessible, help for them to

25:27

see the model, get them to be

25:29

exposed to it early. And

25:31

I've had residents come back in their

25:33

second and third years that are, uh,

25:36

well, how do we do this? How can we manage

25:38

this? What's the best way to putting it together?

25:40

So that I think is critical because I do

25:42

think it's our younger docs in

25:45

this movement. who are understanding

25:48

what it is we're doing and are

25:50

able to come out of residency with sort

25:52

of a broad range of, things

25:54

in family medicine that they enjoy doing,

25:56

that they're able to maintain in this

25:58

model. That would include things like hospital

26:01

work. So, it is critical

26:03

that we continue to expand the education,

26:06

especially for the new docs that are coming out

26:09

and early in their residencies so that they

26:11

see. That this is a possibility

26:13

and they're not just facing a employer

26:15

contract with a large group coming out.

26:17

And, one of the trends

26:20

that I've thought is really interesting

26:22

is if you think about in the traditional

26:24

fee for service model, on the one end of the spectrum, we've

26:27

got Doctor and

26:29

the other end of the spectrum. We've got like a health plan

26:32

and brokers and they're it's

26:34

just like total war Right

26:36

between those two. It's like that, totally

26:39

Opposite end of the spectrum, incentives,

26:42

the system is just like fundamentally broken, da da

26:44

da, like we all know that, right? What

26:46

is super interesting, if you think, on

26:48

the one hand, we have this physician driven movement,

26:50

right? This like renegade group of doctors

26:53

and clinicians that are going basically, hey, let's

26:55

do something different, and now we're starting to see

26:57

that, go mainstream. What we're seeing

26:59

on the other end of that spectrum is we're also

27:01

starting to see, a new type

27:04

of advisor. Right. A new type

27:06

of broker and advisor who actually

27:08

is railing against the system and on

27:10

the other side of the system and a similar

27:12

way to these doctors have where they say, hang

27:15

on, this is immoral. And what we, this,

27:17

our industry is doing, let's figure out

27:19

a different way to get. Really

27:21

great access to care for the employees

27:23

that we're serving. Let's actually figure out how can we save money

27:26

while improving access? And what

27:28

I think is really interesting is you're actually seeing almost

27:30

like the connection of those

27:32

two extremes coming together. We

27:34

have actually a DPC doctor

27:37

and an advisor that really truly cares

27:39

and they're trying to figure out how can we care for this population.

27:42

And, It's got to the point actually where we've

27:44

seen some doctors become advisors.

27:47

Like actually get their brokerages and their licenses so

27:49

that they can actually play both of those roles. But

27:52

to me, that's the sort of, this sort of almost like

27:54

the third camp here that

27:56

is really critical and

27:59

I, I really just. implore you

28:01

as if you're a DPC clinician, go

28:03

find whoever that advisor is

28:05

in your community. And there's, that's, it's a, it's

28:07

like DPC, it's a small community, but it's growing.

28:10

Go find that person and figure out how

28:12

to collaborate with them. Cause I think together

28:15

there's a lot of magic can happen.

28:17

And we're going to be. trying to facilitate

28:20

some of that connectivity at the hint summit,

28:22

right? We invite some advisors

28:25

that are really mission aligned to come and collaborate

28:27

and talk about how can we make this go mainstream

28:29

together. But I think it's another really powerful

28:32

underground movement that's happening on the, on the other

28:34

side of the fence there.

28:35

And this echoes what you have continued

28:37

to mention, but, our stories matter, words

28:39

matter we see In

28:41

our DPCs, word of

28:43

mouth is how we really,

28:46

really grow what what is really the

28:48

the biggest ROI is a patient who

28:50

is so amazed and

28:52

impressed and thankful for your care

28:55

there's the current amount of brokers

28:57

that understand DPC. There's other

29:00

brokers that they talk to. And so this

29:02

is definitely, just calling out

29:04

that word of mouth and sharing what you do

29:06

with people. matters so with

29:08

that, I want to get into the details now of Hint

29:11

Hint Summit is going to be this September,

29:13

September 27th through 28th in

29:15

Denver. And again, the title of is

29:18

Elevating Healthcare, DPCs Climb

29:20

to Mainstream. So Zach,

29:22

can you tell us some more details

29:24

yeah, for sure. If you want like the nitty gritty go

29:27

to summit. hint. com, but I think maybe just

29:29

talking high level, the intention of

29:31

summit has always been about

29:33

inspiration and kind

29:36

of how can we help

29:38

inspire this community to go to the next level?

29:41

and help form connections,

29:43

right? Now, we do have a bunch

29:45

of content we've got. One of the things we try to do

29:47

each year is bring keynotes in that maybe

29:50

are a little bit off the beating track or things

29:52

that you may not have heard about or thought about.

29:54

And we, we try to delight

29:56

there a little bit and give it sort of expand

29:58

the mind. And so we've got some really interesting keynotes

30:01

there on that front. We also bring

30:03

topical topics. And so, for example, we

30:05

just, spend time talking about regulatory stuff. We'll

30:08

be having Jake, he's doing a talk on kind

30:10

of update from the hill and maybe up live

30:12

update on what's going on. Mentioned, uh,

30:15

Kenneth is going to be talking about the power of words.

30:17

We've got uh, Nir

30:19

Patel, who's, he's a, he's a DPC.

30:22

He's got a, scaled out, a handful

30:24

of DPC clinics, but also has

30:26

a broker group and advisory. So

30:29

it's one of these examples of folks that have tried to bring

30:31

these two worlds together. There'll be some really interesting

30:34

stories there. Uh, we actually have our very

30:36

own Dr. Brad uh, who's going to be

30:39

Doing a story with

30:41

one of their, one of his employers, like a case

30:43

study and live interview with

30:45

one of the employers that he's working with to

30:48

look after the employees. And there's going to be

30:50

two tracks. One of the tracks is all

30:52

around kind of, Building and

30:54

scaling a DPC clinic. The

30:56

other track is more about aspiration, like how

30:58

can we help take this movement to the next level. So

31:01

you can sort of network in the places

31:03

you're interested in and there's really good content for the

31:05

stuff you're looking for. and there's like a ton of stuff

31:08

we can do, great parties, events, things like

31:10

that. The thing that I want to leave with at

31:12

the end of the day. The content

31:14

is going to be awesome. But the thing that I

31:16

think people always go away with from

31:19

hint summit as they, as

31:21

the connections, they form the

31:23

friendships that, that they solidify

31:26

the inspiration they get from

31:29

just being around other people that are like

31:31

minded. And I think at the

31:33

end of the day, it's the intangible, I

31:35

think that is what is going to be

31:37

most powerful.

31:39

We've really appreciated the networking,

31:42

the, the The joy in

31:44

this movement coming together and

31:46

the environment that Hint provides with

31:48

the summit. So, actually this

31:50

year the fellow, physician in my office Dr.

31:52

Adam Yarmay, is going, so it'll be

31:55

his first time to be at the summit.

31:57

And we've just truly appreciated

31:59

what Hint Health has been able to put together

32:01

for our movement with these

32:04

events.

32:05

So again, Hint Summit elevating Healthcare

32:07

DPCs Climb to Mainstream is happening

32:09

September 27 through 28 in Denver,

32:11

Colorado. the details are definitely

32:14

going to be@summit.hint.com. Keep

32:16

checking back there. For the list of ever-growing

32:19

amazing speakers, the cost to attend

32:21

is $599 for the general

32:24

public, $499 for

32:26

Hint customers. And if you use the code,

32:28

my DPC story, all one word,

32:31

you can get $50 off your ticket. If

32:33

you are a resident a medical student

32:35

or somebody who is interested in attending

32:38

and cost is an issue, please reach out

32:40

to the team at summit. hint. com.

32:42

There are scholarships for residents and,

32:44

there are also DEI scholarships

32:47

at the end of the day, this is, we see Hint

32:49

Summit as part of our kind of giving

32:51

back, right? So it's a, it's

32:53

a nonprofit endeavor, right? We're

32:56

trying to keep it as affordable as possible.

32:58

And we always survey, at the

33:00

end of it, like, what'd you guys think? What would you do differently?

33:02

And the survey results are really good, 98

33:04

percent of people love it, it's this event

33:07

we put on for the community. And,

33:09

yeah, look forward to celebrating with you all.

33:12

one last time summit. hint. com

33:14

if you would like to get your ticket to join

33:16

the direct primary care enthusiasts, pioneers

33:19

and innovators and to network with

33:21

them and to share your story and to hear theirs.

33:24

So thank you again so much both of you for joining

33:26

us today.

33:26

Great to be here.

33:27

You're welcome.

33:28

Thank you.

33:32

Thank you for joining us for another episode of

33:34

My DPC Story, highlighting the physician

33:36

experience in the world of direct primary

33:38

care. I hope you found today's conversation

33:41

insightful and inspiring. If

33:43

you want to dive deeper into the direct primary

33:45

care movement, consider joining our My DPC

33:48

Story Patreon community. Here you'll

33:50

have access to exclusive content, including

33:52

more interview topics and much more. Don't

33:55

forget to subscribe to My DPC Story on your

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33:59

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34:01

I'd greatly appreciate if you could leave us a review.

34:04

It helps others to find the podcast. Until

34:07

next time, stay informed, stay healthy,

34:09

and keep advocating for DPC. Read

34:12

more about DPC news on the daily at

34:14

dpcnews. com. Until next

34:16

week, this is Mariel Concepcion.