1:50

Primary care is an innovative, alternative

1:53

path to insurance driven health care. Typically,

1:57

a patient pays their doctor a low monthly

1:59

membership and in return,

2:01

builds a lasting relationship with their doctor

2:03

and has their doctor available at their

2:05

fingertips. Welcome

2:07

to the My DPC Story podcast, where

2:10

each week, You will hear the ever so

2:12

relatable stories shared by physicians who

2:14

have chosen to practice medicine in their individual

2:16

communities through the direct primary

2:18

care model. I'm your host, Marielle

2:21

Conception, family physician, DPC

2:24

owner, and former fee for service doctor.

2:27

I hope you enjoy today's episode and

2:29

come away feeling inspired about the future

2:31

of patient care, direct primary

2:34

care.

2:38

Direct Primary Care is a modern take

2:40

on old school medicine, allowing doctors

2:43

to reconnect with their patients on a

2:45

personal and more even

2:48

playing field, a mutually beneficial

2:50

relationship and to truly

2:52

address the matters that are important

2:55

to both. My name is Michael Chunn

2:57

of Chunn Family Medicine Direct Primary

3:00

Care, and this is my DPC story.

3:02

Dr. Michael Chun started his path in healthcare

3:04

as a phlebotomist at the University

3:06

Hospital in Little Rock, Arkansas. The

3:09

energy of the hospital and a deep interest in

3:11

science directed him to a career in

3:13

medicine. In a few short years,

3:15

he was a student in that same hospital,

3:17

and he graduated from the University of Arkansas

3:20

for Medical Sciences in 1998. He

3:23

completed family medicine residency at Miami

3:25

Valley Hospital in Dayton, Ohio, serving

3:27

as co chief resident in his final year

3:30

of training. Dr. Chun first

3:32

practiced in Benton, Kentucky, in both

3:34

inpatient and outpatient settings in a

3:36

rural community, then transitioned to occupational

3:39

health and emergency care. In

3:41

2007, he and his family moved to

3:43

Cincinnati to start Chun Family Medicine.

3:46

Initially a part of Premier Health Partners, in

3:48

2016, Chun Family Medicine

3:51

became a fully independent practice, taking

3:53

a step away from corporate involvement in

3:55

the doctor patient relationship. In

3:57

January of 2022, the DPC

3:59

model was introduced to Dr. Chun by

4:02

a long time colleague. The idea

4:04

of returning to the foundations of medicine became

4:06

a growing preoccupation, and with the support

4:08

of colleagues and his family, Dr. Chun

4:11

decided to transition. Chun Family Medicine

4:13

to Chun Family Medicine Direct Primary Care

4:15

in January of 2023. Dr.

4:18

Chun has been married to Andrea since 1995.

4:21

Together, they have raised three amazing adult

4:24

children. Most of the credit goes to Andrea,

4:26

though. Scattered across Texas,

4:28

California, and Arkansas, Hannah, with

4:30

her husband Josh, Isaac, and Caleb,

4:32

aka the Chunlings, are creating lives

4:34

of their own out of the nest. Copper,

4:37

the mini golden doodle, keeps the house alive

4:39

with walks and fetch. Faith

4:41

and spirituality play a significant role

4:43

in Dr. Chun's life. Dr. Chun dabbles

4:46

in woodworking, loves baseball, go Cardinals,

4:48

attends live music and theater, and enjoys

4:51

a good show on TV or the big screen.

4:53

He and Andrea have been dubbed foodies by

4:55

some of their friends and love the food scene

4:58

in Cincinnati, Ohio. Welcome

5:01

to the podcast, Dr. Chun.

5:03

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

5:05

I love that your journey has truly demonstrated

5:07

that you've continued to hone in and

5:10

hone in and hone in even further.

5:12

To that patient doctor relationship. And

5:14

so I want to start off with your

5:16

journey into medicine was not going

5:19

to medical school after undergrad. You were actually

5:21

a phlebotomist before you became a physician.

5:24

So tell us, the listeners

5:26

and myself, how did you end

5:28

up going into phlebotomy and how did

5:30

that lead to you choosing to become a physician?

5:33

Sure. I was a college

5:35

student studying. I

5:37

think at that point I was a biology major

5:39

and I got a phone call. My dad worked

5:42

for the American Red Cross and I

5:44

have those friends or colleagues with

5:46

the blood bank administrators in the

5:48

local hospitals. And he called and said, get

5:50

up. You have a job for the summer. There's

5:53

a guy down at the university hospital

5:55

who's in charge of the blood bank. You're going to be a phlebotomist.

5:58

Okay. I don't know what a phlebotomist is. So

6:00

go to the hospital and they said, well,

6:02

you're, you're going to draw blood from

6:04

patients. And once again,

6:07

okay, you're going to have to show me the rope. So connected

6:09

with several seasoned phlebotomist

6:12

and they showed me what to do.

6:14

And I did that for well

6:16

through college and all the summers and

6:18

all the holidays, it, it allowed me to work nights

6:21

and weekends and holidays and I

6:23

just love it. I loved it. I fell in love with

6:25

the energy of the hospital. It was the university

6:28

hospital where all the teaching and all the trauma

6:30

and all the action happened

6:32

and the University of Arkansas as the

6:34

state's only medical center,

6:36

or at least it was at the time. medical

6:39

school. And so all the residents

6:41

and and training was happening there.

6:43

And I just loved it. I loved

6:45

the mysteries and

6:48

the weird things that that came

6:50

in. And I got to kind of be a fly on the wall

6:52

as a phlebotomist and learned

6:54

a good skill. And it just, it

6:57

changed my direction. I was

6:59

thinking about being a pharmacist

7:01

or chemistry teacher or whatnot,

7:03

and just wasn't quite sure

7:05

what to do. And this really

7:08

I love that. I love that. The, the journey

7:10

was get up. You got a

7:12

job today, man. That is amazing. And

7:14

that's so, I don't know. I think

7:17

it speaks to our parents,

7:19

in this idea that a

7:21

lot of us come from, there's not

7:24

not necessarily a set path. It's

7:26

just hey, this opportunity is here. This

7:28

is something you can take advantage of. And I absolutely

7:30

love that it has led you into this journey

7:32

and into now being a direct primary care physician.

7:35

So when you decided

7:37

that, medicine was the way to go you

7:39

saw these cases being the person in the room

7:42

without, at the time being the person to

7:44

triage and to diagnose, et cetera.

7:46

When you, Eventually went into

7:49

medical school. How was medical school different

7:51

for you because you had had that experience

7:53

versus someone who had not even been in,

7:55

a hospital or a clinic before

7:58

applying to medical school.

8:00

That's interesting because many times this

8:02

was back in the. Um,

8:05

We had a little white lab jackets as phlebotomists.

8:07

And so we kind of look like medical students anyway.

8:10

And I got mistaken for

8:12

a medical student or a resident many times.

8:14

And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm not the doctor. I need

8:16

to go get a doctor. And then as

8:19

the. Medical student and then resident,

8:21

I, I was familiar

8:23

with the rooms, the way the rooms were set up. Okay,

8:25

don't bump into that. Don't unplug

8:27

that machine. So

8:29

that was a little bit of familiarity. And then the

8:32

whole mystery of ordering labs.

8:34

I, I knew I was like, Oh, you need to put this

8:36

in and make sure you order it with this, add on

8:39

or this goes in the right. You put that in the wrong

8:41

tube. And that was really,

8:43

really helpful for sure.

8:45

That learning curve was so, so

8:48

less steep for you when it came to especially

8:50

the labs. And I love that because the first

8:52

part of your journey, after going

8:54

to medical school in terms of really practicing

8:56

was both in an inpatient and outpatient

8:59

setting in rural Kentucky. So, given

9:01

that you had this experience,

9:04

in the medical field before medical school

9:06

and you were able to, build off of

9:08

that. In training, what

9:10

was life like in Kentucky

9:12

when you were in a rural environment

9:14

practicing medicine?

9:16

Yeah. Benton, Kentucky, west, far western

9:18

Kentucky is very blue collar

9:20

area. A lot of manufacturing

9:23

a lot of tire manufacturers, chemical manufacturing,

9:25

some metals and alloys type

9:28

thing. And so a lot of my patients

9:30

were hardworking very physical

9:32

jobs We also were located

9:35

in the corner of the state there that connected

9:37

Missouri, Illinois and Tennessee, and

9:39

so this was the height of the oxycontin

9:42

and hydrocodone stuff,

9:44

so there was lots of doctor shopping so people could

9:46

drive to all four states in a day and

9:48

hit for doctor's appointments and probably

9:51

have a, 500 bills of, Lortab

9:54

or oxycodone or whatnot. So that

9:56

that was very, very challenging. Casper

9:58

and the electronic reporting

10:01

technology was just getting started. We

10:03

sent faxes in when we, had to check

10:05

people's prescribing uh, and

10:08

such. So, that was a definitely

10:10

a trial by fire and I did not enjoy

10:12

that at all. That wasn't my training to

10:15

pass out narcotics at all. So,

10:17

very, Very challenging and kind of disheartening

10:19

at times. But then on the other side, you

10:22

treat someone on a Christmas Eve that,

10:24

they're leaving on vacation, it's a little rural

10:26

town and they bring you a, warm

10:28

banana pudding when they get back in town for, thanking

10:30

you for taking care of them and that

10:33

hospitality, Southern hospitality and,

10:35

and gratitude was there. So,

10:37

the, the trade offs were, were,

10:40

it was a really nice place to It's

10:42

a really nice place to work, but it was in a setting

10:44

that different than

10:47

the urban setting of my residency

10:49

and medical school training for

10:51

sure.

11:41

I'm with you 110 percent when it comes to that

11:43

rural hospitality, there's nothing like

11:45

it. When it comes, though, to,

11:48

the culture that we're in now, where physicians

11:50

are really commodities, we are not valued

11:53

as people who are trained to think

11:55

and diagnose and, be all the things, especially

11:57

in family practice. When you

11:59

were practicing in this,

12:01

opiate world that you were in, especially

12:04

at the confluence of all of these geographic

12:06

areas, Did you have any sense

12:08

that you were valued any less as a physician

12:10

because you were the one with the prescription

12:13

pad, or did you still feel

12:15

valued apart from the patients

12:17

with the bread, with the banana pudding by

12:19

your, by your employer?

12:21

It was, it felt like a target at times

12:24

because it was a game. To get, how

12:26

can I get the prescription out of the doctor,

12:28

so that part of it was felt undervalued

12:31

because I wasn't Playing the role as a physician,

12:33

I was the kind of the guardian of

12:35

the pad versus the, the right district,

12:38

prescriber. I do feel like those

12:41

who were legitimately being treated for

12:43

their healthcare and needed that healthcare

12:46

did value a conscientious,

12:48

well trained physician who could provide

12:50

the services that they needed in a rural area,

12:53

because Nashville was two hours away.

12:55

Paducah, the next biggest town, which was about

12:57

70, 000 people, was half an hour away.

13:00

So there was a lot of driving involved if you needed to

13:02

see a specialist. And, if you were well trained

13:04

and I feel like I had a great residency training

13:07

you saved some people, some time and some time

13:09

away from work, time away from home dollars

13:11

on the, on gas driving

13:14

places. So,

13:15

At what point did you make the transition

13:17

into your next step along your journey

13:20

where you were doing occupational medicine

13:22

and emergency medicine before moving

13:24

back to Ohio?

13:26

Yeah, the practice that I started in

13:29

the growth there was

13:31

starting to, to falter. We weren't

13:33

quite sure if we were wanting to stay

13:36

in, in the rural area long term

13:38

with our family. And so this

13:40

occupational medicine opportunity

13:42

came available and I did have a non compete,

13:44

so I couldn't just open another family

13:47

practice office down the street in

13:49

our small town. So the occupational

13:51

medicine. bit of it was outside

13:53

of that restriction. So

13:56

it was a good fit. It was a great timing. It

13:58

was a different aspect of primary

14:00

care that I had not been exposed

14:03

to to any great degree. And At that part,

14:05

it was it was fun to learn. It was I

14:07

got my own hard hat so I could go into the plants

14:09

and and go see where

14:11

these people worked. And it

14:14

really opened my eyes to the to

14:16

the real cause and effect part

14:18

of especially musculoskeletal

14:21

medicine. But other exposures,

14:23

there was a plant that made Polyvinyl chloride PVC,

14:27

and that one of the byproducts is chlorine

14:29

gas, so there, there were these chlorine gas

14:31

tanks on, on plant, and the next

14:33

plant down the street had made the

14:37

Freon for your air conditioners, and

14:39

they had fluorine gas, and it was our

14:41

little area was on the Homeland Security map,

14:43

because if you blew either of those

14:46

up, the area around was going to really

14:48

be toxic so that was an exposure

14:50

to Different, different part of medicine, for

14:52

sure.

14:53

How did you work that time in to do

14:55

site visits and to see, you know, on the job

14:58

what people were going through? Were you

15:00

under a contract that included payment

15:02

for your time to go there? Did you, was

15:05

there an RV? I mean, and I, I ask

15:07

that in all earnest because there's, walked

15:09

into a lamppost as a, as an ICD

15:12

10. So. Yeah, right. Right. What, what, how

15:14

did you. How were you able

15:16

to see patients but also see them

15:18

in such, a personalized manner

15:21

back then?

15:22

I was an hourly employee for

15:24

a service employee health

15:27

service that contracted

15:29

with the individual company. So we provided

15:31

pulmonary function testing, hearing conservation,

15:34

minor emergency care and

15:36

their pre employment and then workers

15:39

type services. So that was

15:41

part of my job was to go visit with the

15:43

safety directors and sometimes

15:45

see, see workers on

15:47

site. Most of the time they came to our clinic

15:50

that was in the area and was very accessible

15:53

to them. So it was just really

15:55

helpful to walk around and, as a chemistry

15:57

major. So I saw these, four story tall

16:00

buildings that essentially was a big Erlenmeyer

16:02

flask or a big beaker, that I messed

16:05

with in college chemistry. So it was I

16:07

liked it. I kind of geeked out on that kind

16:09

of thing. So it was fun.

16:12

And at what point did you

16:14

transition to doing emergency medicine

16:16

or was that overlapping with your time

16:18

doing occupational medicine?

16:20

That was more of a like a moonlighting type

16:22

situation, the local critical care hospital

16:24

that I had done the inpatient medicine with. I continued

16:27

to be able to do inpatient

16:30

medicine. So I would admit patients.

16:33

I was on the call schedule for our critical care

16:35

critical access hospital. So I did

16:37

emergency room shifts. It was

16:39

a small hospital in a rural area.

16:41

We were pretty close to Kentucky Lake and Lake Barkley,

16:43

which is a big recreation area.

16:45

So, we saw four wheeler accidents

16:48

and snake bites and, fish

16:50

hooks in the palm and sunburns

16:53

and such in the summertime. And yeah,

16:55

on top of the elderly person

16:58

who fell and broke their hip where the, the 65

17:00

year old smoker with pneumonia. So it was, it

17:02

was a broad range of things.

17:05

But in a. Very small community.

17:07

Gotcha. Now, when you guys

17:09

decided to move back to Ohio

17:12

I, I want to ask, what was the,

17:15

what was the reason for moving back specifically

17:17

to Ohio? And how

17:19

did you then find a job

17:21

given that you were in a location where

17:24

you had been before training in

17:26

medical school and residency, but then not necessarily

17:28

for the, the years prior to moving back to Ohio?

17:31

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So once

17:34

again, Just kind of like, is

17:36

this all there is? And I don't say that in

17:38

a, in a derogatory way, but just

17:40

in my own journey thinking

17:42

I wanted to practice more full scope. Family

17:45

medicine. I trained at Miami Valley Hospital

17:47

in Dayton, Ohio, and my

17:50

residency mates were all working

17:52

kind of spread out. And Dr Timothy

17:54

Linker, who I mentioned in my alluded

17:57

to in my website Had established his

17:59

practice was getting busy and I

18:01

contacted him said, Hey, what's going on? He

18:03

goes, Oh, it's interesting. You call. I was just

18:05

thinking about expanding our practice

18:08

here. And with star clause

18:10

and a lot of the practice arrangements,

18:12

he couldn't subsidize my startup.

18:14

And so I became an employee.

18:17

It worked out. My wife's from Cincinnati.

18:19

And so it's a familiar area.

18:21

It's a, we, we liked the size.

18:23

It's a middle place, as they say on the,

18:26

the show, the good place. It's a, it's kind

18:28

of a middle of the world, middle

18:30

of the country kind of place.

18:32

And So I became employed by

18:34

a corporate hospital system here

18:37

in town and we became a joint venture.

18:39

So I rented essentially

18:41

rented employees, space, supplies,

18:43

and all the things that it took to, to

18:46

have a practice from him. And

18:48

we had an arrangement to do that. And

18:50

I had my practice that was run by

18:52

the hospital and he had his practice that

18:54

was solo and privately owned.

18:56

When you talk about renting, did. Did

19:00

you get to participate in choosing

19:02

staff or billers, etc., or

19:04

did, did you get these are the

19:06

people you have to choose from, that's all

19:08

you got?

19:10

I had probably the best

19:12

employed experience

19:15

My practice was the farthest south in the

19:17

practice area for this hospital

19:20

system. We kind of were a guinea pig and

19:22

are they going to be able to break into this zip

19:24

code essentially. And they were very

19:26

hands off. They just said, yes, we'll fund

19:29

your salary. You just, see patients

19:31

make money and we'll be fine. So

19:33

I had a hand in hiring

19:35

and firing and, capital.

19:37

Expenses and and all of those

19:40

things, they didn't even really push

19:42

like referral patterns

19:44

or or anything. We worked. It worked as

19:46

a great relationship until

19:49

meaningful use came out and

19:52

we're in a, we're in an interesting area.

19:54

It's very much a suburban kind of bedroom

19:56

type. Area for Cincinnati. Very

19:59

middle class, upper middle class

20:01

probably. And, and we had

20:03

very, very few Medicare patients

20:05

and very, very few Medicaid patients

20:08

given our geographical location. And so we,

20:10

we really struggled to meet the criteria

20:12

to, to Submit data for meaningful

20:14

use. So that whole process, I was

20:16

kind of the, the annoying practice

20:20

in the group that, Oh, he's, he's the problem

20:22

child. Cause he's special. And

20:24

we were allowed to keep our EMR

20:27

that preexisted epic. And

20:30

they said, yeah, cause you're kind of on the

20:32

outskirts. We'll let you keep it until

20:34

you can't. And then 2016,

20:36

they said, you either have to, to

20:38

Transition to Epic or, or

20:40

not. And Dr. Linker

20:43

is privately owned. He doesn't want to

20:45

go on Epic. He has no reason to be on Epic.

20:47

And we're not going to have two EMR systems in our,

20:50

in our one little office there. So

20:52

I said, well, now's a good time to part ways. I don't

20:54

have a non compete. It just basically changed

20:56

the sign on the door. And, the next day we

20:59

opened as Chun Family Medicine.

21:02

It's it's definitely a rarity to hear something like

21:04

that happening these days. I, I also

21:07

will give a high five to all the other

21:09

people who laughed when you said meaningful use

21:11

and thought meaningless use is what you said.

21:13

Um, So, going, going

21:15

on to, that thread, it's, it's

21:17

incredible how, DPC

21:21

blooming in your mind, just

21:23

because, it's yeah, I'm

21:25

supposed to be a doctor and this is an absolute

21:28

barrier to me having my

21:30

relationship that was, there with my

21:32

patients because it's now one more thing that you have to do.

21:34

I just, I think of that graph that is very famous

21:36

where it's every time there's a meaningless

21:38

use type of Oh, requirement,

21:40

the number of admin hours goes up

21:43

and the patient, the physician satisfaction

21:46

plateaus or goes down like somebody diving

21:48

off of a diving board. So when,

21:50

when we talk about you, having this amazing

21:53

like day, day zero, you

21:55

were you were at your previous practice and

21:57

then day one you were Chun Family Medicine. Had,

22:00

go, going into that transition though I mean, you have

22:02

a logo and you have a website

22:04

and, your website now is updated to your

22:06

Chun Family Medicine direct primary care. But

22:08

at the time, I mean, did you just like whip

22:10

that logo out and posted something

22:13

on the, on the door the next day? Or had you,

22:15

been sensing that this change

22:17

was going to come so that you had to make a switch?

22:21

We did have some time, fortunately,

22:23

and without the non compete,

22:25

we could work on credentialing with, changing

22:27

my NPI or whatever numbers needed

22:30

to change to practice independently.

23:29

And I, my logo, which is

23:31

the same logo that I have today a friend

23:34

happened to have a He's not even a graphic

23:37

designer as by trade, but it has that

23:39

interest. And I said, let's sit down and, and

23:41

hammer something out. And so he came up with

23:43

a bunch of different options and we

23:46

refined it down. And

23:48

yeah, it, it's really very DIY

23:51

and I haven't hired big ad agencies

23:53

or marketing groups or anything.

23:55

It's been, friend of a friend or. that

23:59

type of situation. So yeah,

24:01

definitely the, the DPC was a complete

24:03

rework of the website. Just I couldn't

24:06

even imagine trying to, do

24:08

code. So I, I went the easy

24:10

route on all that.

24:12

When you made the transition

24:15

for your patients, because you were still at the

24:17

time accepting insurance, Was there

24:19

any, I mean, did they even get that

24:22

there was a change at all? Or,

24:24

I mean, clearly the name had changed, but in terms

24:26

of like how they experienced your

24:28

practice as a physician, your, the relationship

24:31

that they had with you, did that change at all

24:33

when you went from your previous practice to Chun

24:35

Family Medicine?

24:37

Really not, because this

24:40

was the beginning of. Well,

24:43

our practice had not yet turned

24:45

over the keys of the billing to the corporate,

24:47

big corporate office. So they still got statements

24:49

directly from my office and they still got

24:52

phone calls from my employees as

24:54

far as your, your bills passed due or

24:56

your, we need to update your, your

24:59

insurance card or whatnot. So they really

25:01

didn't see a difference. And unfortunately

25:04

the money really didn't change a whole lot either.

25:06

As far as how I got paid,

25:08

I had to. See the patients to

25:11

be paid. It wasn't just a base salary anymore.

25:13

And so the productivity,

25:15

that mindset was still there. It still

25:17

was, Hey, I need to keep my schedule full in

25:19

order to, to be able to take home enough money

25:21

to, to pay my, my mortgage and

25:24

kids expenses and things. So,

25:26

that part of it, unfortunately, didn't change a whole

25:28

lot either because we really didn't have a contentious

25:30

relationship with the, with the hospital

25:32

system at that point. So I

25:35

wasn't really running away from I just can't

25:37

take it anymore. Kind of attitude.

25:39

That is the attitude I had leaving,

25:42

leaving insurance to DPC though.

25:44

So let's go there because from 2016

25:47

all the way until 2022,

25:49

I mean you were, you were living that life

25:51

of the fee for service doctor. How

25:54

did, what changes did

25:56

you see over time that got you to this point

25:58

of, I am so done, I'm

26:00

doing DPC?

26:03

I mean, you can never take vacation

26:05

without doing the mental math

26:07

of, okay, I'm gone so many days, which equals

26:09

so many dollars I'm not going to earn. And

26:11

then I'm going to pay money to go on vacation.

26:14

So this, this vacation is

26:16

a net loss. Anytime I took

26:18

time away that grant,

26:21

grinded on me, the hiring and firing

26:23

part of it. It still, Is

26:25

there today, as a, as

26:27

a DPC practice and privately owned practice.

26:29

So that it really didn't change, but Being

26:32

beholden to the insurance companies

26:34

and knowing that I was never

26:36

going to get a raise per, per, per patient,

26:39

that that dollar figure is probably never, ever

26:41

going to go up and, employee

26:43

wage costs are going to go up. The

26:46

supply costs are going to go up. My rent is

26:48

going to go up. And, there, there just was a,

26:50

an outlook of the only way I'm ever going

26:52

to make more money than I, than I'm making

26:54

today is to see more patients, which is already

26:57

a strain and a, and a source of,

26:59

the satisfaction for me and my patients.

27:01

Absolutely. And, I think about when

27:04

When patients get the brunt of that, it's,

27:07

well, I couldn't see my doctor, so

27:10

I sat here with a hematoma that went septic

27:12

and opened up the skin all the way down to my shin.

27:14

I mean, crazy things are happening because it's

27:16

like, we have too many patients on our panels

27:19

in fee for service not in DBC where

27:22

it, it really, accessibility

27:24

is like the hugest problem

27:26

that people see. When they're, I

27:28

mean, even trying to call into an office and they're like,

27:30

no one will pick up. I literally, and I'm sure

27:32

you do now, like I have patients saying, I

27:35

need to get scheduled with said doctor,

27:37

surgery, cardiology, whatever, but I can't get them.

27:39

So I called you and I'm like, okay,

27:42

you still need to see them, but how can I help?

27:44

Maybe maybe they'll talk to a doctor. I don't know. But

27:46

you know, it's, it's, it's crazy

27:48

to hear that and then

27:50

to envision what our patients go through,

27:53

which is. Like completely

27:55

unacceptable. I mean, it's unacceptable for us

27:57

as physicians because we were under that pressure

27:59

when, at the root of all of this, we're trying

28:02

to be doctors. There's, there's people who say

28:04

like, it's not the doctor that's, that's the problem.

28:06

It's the system. And, that's, that

28:08

is definitely true in a lot of cases

28:11

where you have no control

28:13

over your patient panel

28:15

or who, how many are on your panel. And

28:18

so it's it's very interesting that.

28:21

You would, you had seen this transition again,

28:23

going from your days as a phlebotomist

28:25

to really, wanting to be

28:27

in the medical world as a physician

28:30

and then seeing this transition just

28:32

continue to take hold to this place of you have

28:34

to pay to go on vacation. I mean, residents

28:37

still, they don't believe they're

28:39

like. I mean, their, their faces,

28:41

their jaws drop when they're, when they,

28:44

they hear these stories. I mean, the, the

28:46

the local corporations tactic

28:48

when CMS raised a reimbursement

28:50

for primary care RVUs was, Yes,

28:53

that all of that money goes to the corporation.

28:55

And so of that new, newly increased

28:57

pool, we're going to take this amount. And

29:00

magically, you're getting less than before

29:02

CMS raised the rates. And they're like, we

29:04

have, how does that work? How is that

29:06

fair? It's Oh, it's not fair. It's just,

29:08

it's not fair. Yeah, that's just how it happens.

29:11

So let's go to your journey now. Back in

29:13

2022, just a year

29:15

prior to opening, you had learned

29:17

about DPC. So tell us about how

29:19

you learned about DPC and how

29:22

quickly did your mind change to

29:25

fee for service is no longer going

29:27

to be my plan?

29:29

I was feeling the strain, mental health

29:31

wise, I was, having anxiousness

29:33

and probably some form of depression

29:36

with just kind of hopeless, hopeless

29:38

feelings of the career and

29:41

physically tired,

30:25

physically high blood pressure, high cholesterol,

30:28

overweight. Just, it

30:30

was not good. I was not doing

30:32

well. And yeah. I kind of

30:34

had that same scenario when we moved from

30:36

Kentucky to Ohio, a friend,

30:38

another resident friend called from

30:40

Oxford, Ohio, Dr. Jason Hoke and

30:43

said, Hey, have you heard of direct primary care?

30:45

I'm like, no, I don't know. I've heard

30:47

of, vague, concierge, whatever. And

30:50

he goes, Hey, let's go to dinner and let's talk about

30:52

it. I'm like, okay. So the original

30:54

pitch was for me to join

30:56

him at his practice in Oxford, which is

30:58

about 45 minutes away, about an hour

31:00

from my house. And

31:03

I'm like, wow, this sounds amazing, but I

31:05

can't drive an hour. And we had, we

31:08

had just bought a house and built a house,

31:10

bought a house, whatever. And, and I'm like,

31:12

I'm not going through the whole real estate thing, but

31:15

I like your idea and I would love to

31:17

be your colleague in. In

31:19

spirit so, we had a lot

31:21

of brainstorming sessions. I went to the DPC

31:23

summit in Kansas city. And

31:26

first time I had seen you on stage and,

31:28

and introduced to the podcast.

31:30

And I just, it was the proverbial

31:32

fire hose, and every night I would come home

31:34

from the, from the conference and talk to my wife.

31:36

And she's wow, that sounds interesting. And it sounds

31:39

like it answers a lot of our questions and, a lot

31:41

of the needs that we have. And

31:43

it just. And by

31:45

the end of the conference, we're driving home

31:47

from Kansas city to Cincinnati. And,

31:49

and I'm like, I think, I think I'm

31:51

feeling like we probably ought to do this. And she supported

31:54

it, which is huge. I mean, I

31:56

can't make a big

31:58

job move like this without her support

32:01

and, and her being on board. So.

32:04

We're like, okay, we're going to do this. So I listened to every

32:06

podcast that you put out. I put, I listened to

32:08

the I think the direct primary care podcast

32:10

that Rousseau had on, I listened to all

32:12

of his stuff and I, I

32:15

didn't really read a lot of stuff I

32:17

knew enough about. built

32:19

doing a practice, but I just needed to

32:21

know what a DBC

32:23

practice look like. So listening to everyone

32:25

else's scenarios and stories

32:28

really, really helped me flesh things out and

32:30

then talk to Dr. Hoke and then Dr.

32:32

Amy Meckley down and she's just south

32:35

of us and talked to her a lot

32:37

and got a good sense. and

32:39

then had some kind of focus

32:41

type questions to patients, Hey, if I

32:44

did this, what do you think? And some people

32:46

that I, trusted would give me good feedback

32:48

and it sounded like it would fly. So,

32:50

let's see the, the conference was in June. I think

32:52

in August I sent out my first MailChimp

32:55

email and the phone started ringing

32:57

like crazy. What do you mean Dr. Chen's blah, blah, blah,

32:59

and all this. And so

33:01

then probably every patient visit

33:04

September through December, the last

33:06

five minutes of every single visit

33:09

was so what does DPC mean for

33:11

me? And I have insurance or I don't have

33:13

insurance or my employer already

33:15

pays for all this stuff. And I got to answer all

33:17

the bullet points, all the talking points that

33:20

you and and all the other

33:22

DPC docs on before me

33:24

had fleshed out. And so, That

33:27

was, I had a sore throat pretty much

33:29

every night coming home because I talked twice as

33:31

much as I ever did. And then building

33:33

a website and, and talking

33:35

to everybody about their different communication

33:37

platforms membership management and

33:40

all this stuff. So we got it all

33:42

lined up ahead of time, which was great. Started

33:44

pre enrolling I think in November of

33:47

22, and then. January

33:49

3rd, I think, was the Tuesday

33:52

after the holiday we opened the doors

33:54

as DPC.

33:56

What a way to celebrate the new year. That is

33:58

awesome. And I love, just just

34:00

going back to you had talked with Dr. Linkler

34:02

and heard about. Doing private practice under

34:04

a fee for service model, because DPC

34:07

wasn't as prevalent, but when you talked with someone

34:09

like Dr. Hoke, who was already doing DPC,

34:11

that's what I love, and I'm so glad

34:13

that you found the podcast, you found Dr.

34:15

Roussel's podcast, that you were able

34:18

to find It Things out there

34:20

that were able to help you along

34:22

your journey as well as going to the summit. But, I

34:24

think that this is what I love also about this

34:26

movement that if somebody is looking

34:29

for a different way to do things in their second

34:31

year of residency or, their third

34:33

year out of residency. There's people

34:35

like yourself who they can turn to to say Hey,

34:37

Dr. Chen, I, I saw this thing

34:39

that you're doing, but I don't, I don't understand what this

34:42

not taking insurance businesses and you

34:44

can, you can tell them. And, another thing

34:46

you had done too, is you had a series of

34:48

YouTube videos where you recorded your town

34:50

hall. So I wanted to ask about your

34:52

transition, because in addition to you losing

34:54

your voice and talking extra at the end of

34:56

all these visits to tell your patients, what

34:58

you were doing. Where

35:01

in that journey did you decide

35:03

to do a town hall and tell us about

35:05

the town hall? Was it helpful? What?

35:08

And if it was helpful, how was it helpful

35:10

to your practice as you transition to DPC?

35:13

Sorry. Heard about the town halls

35:15

from Dr. Hoke and then several

35:17

of the guests that you have on your podcasts. And,

35:20

and we have conference rooms

35:22

in our building. It's kind of a mixed use

35:24

office building and we had space that

35:26

we could do it. And so I offered that

35:28

up just, I got so many questions

35:30

over and over and over again. I'm like, okay, let's

35:32

do this all at one time. I

35:34

think the first time I had about 25 people

35:36

show up and the second time about the same.

35:39

I think ultimately I did three

35:42

town halls and the last one was pretty

35:44

poorly attended, but I will have to say

35:46

I did a, another town hall this

35:49

past year in the midst of

35:51

running the DPC and we had one person

35:53

show up, but that one person turned into six

35:55

patients. So it, it

35:58

was I guess that was a high yield very small

36:00

attended high yield meeting, but I

36:02

would say it was helpful in that the people that attended

36:05

got very in depth answers

36:07

to their questions. As far as volume

36:09

goes, I don't know that it

36:11

made a whole lot of difference because it was

36:13

mostly my patients. They already knew

36:15

me. They already had access to me in other, in

36:18

other arenas. If you were in an area

36:20

that did not have DPC

36:22

available, you're the first stock in town

36:24

that's doing that. Or, you're, you're

36:27

a part of maybe a different organization like

36:29

a Rotary Club or a something along those

36:31

lines that that could be very helpful to

36:33

reach a bigger group of people. But,

36:36

I think if I just put a sign in the yard and said, Hey,

36:38

free cookies. And do you want to know about DBC?

36:40

I, I, that didn't, that didn't draw many people

36:43

that last time.

36:44

No, when you talked earlier about how,

36:46

Just the numbers game wasn't really making

36:49

sense at all for you, in terms of in

36:51

fee for service, you'd have to see more and more and more

36:53

to maintain the income that you brought in

36:56

when you transitioned to DPC.

36:59

How did you financially plan for DPC

37:01

so that, all those things you had to pay for

37:04

your kids' education and their necessities

37:06

and your mortgage and all the things. How

37:08

did you plan financially to make the leap

37:11

into DPC so quickly?

37:12

Yeah, it, it took a lot of math and

37:15

even the math was a bit fuzzy as,

37:17

as they say. I said, I, until

37:19

I opted out and I, and I did

37:22

opt out from the beginning from, from Medicare

37:24

I worked for an urgent care as well in town

37:27

that was a multi site urgent

37:29

care. And So I just upped

37:31

my shift work and and worked

37:33

a lot of weekends leading

37:35

into that to kind of build a bit of a

37:37

bit of a nest egg or a cushion on

37:40

the cash flow side of things in the practice.

37:43

I wasn't initially able to reduce

37:45

my overhead at the beginning because I

37:48

essentially was still running a fee for service practice

37:50

on the business side, trying to clean

37:52

up all the the A. R. The accounts receivable.

37:55

So for the first three months, it kind

37:57

of looked the same except.

37:59

My, my DPC membership

38:01

fees were coming in and I was getting

38:04

some insurance payments in from those patients

38:06

I saw, October through December

38:08

of 22. So that was actually a

38:10

nice crossover. It didn't make it

38:13

as stark transition

38:15

and it kind of, I did not,

38:17

I'll just, Say I did not take

38:19

a paycheck March, April, May,

38:21

I think of that first year. And

38:24

that's where that cushion came in. And my wife

38:26

also has a, a good job and,

38:28

and was able to, we were able to make

38:30

the cashflow work thankfully.

38:32

We're blessed in that, in that regard. So didn't

38:35

have to take out a loan, which was a huge

38:37

blessing. We had the opportunity to had

38:39

lines of credit for the, for the business

38:41

that we could have pulled from, but did not

38:43

have to do that. And then about

38:45

the time the insurance payments started waning,

38:48

the, the payroll part of

38:50

it, as far as my employee who I was responsible

38:52

for, for employees paying their

38:54

salaries went down commiserate

38:57

to my use. And so it that

38:59

part of it helped as well.

39:01

Because as you transitioned and thank you

39:03

so much for sharing about how financially transitioned,

39:06

but was there anything from

39:08

your time in fee for service that

39:10

was mentally Holding

39:13

you back from, just being

39:15

completely free in DBC. Like, Did you have any

39:17

habits that you found yourself doing that were

39:19

like, I actually don't need to do that workflow

39:22

anymore because that's not needed in an

39:24

insurance free world.

39:26

Oh, definitely. The, I probably have.

39:29

A

39:29

couple hundred ICD 10 codes that I

39:31

have in my head that just automatically regurgitate

39:34

every time I say a diagnosis. So, I

39:36

don't have to remember those until I refer

39:38

somebody or fill out a physical therapy referral

39:41

or whatnot. I don't have to always,

39:43

did I ask enough review of systems

39:45

to qualify for a 214? Or,

39:48

is this a G code on the Medicare

39:50

visit? So, now, and now I relish and

39:52

I don't care. I don't give a flip whether there's

39:55

a G code or not.

39:56

Amen, I just saw the, the, a recent

39:58

post that was like, now you can

40:00

get paid for this. And I'm like, I

40:03

literally don't know what this is saying.

40:05

It's like completely foreign language to me because

40:07

I had the I don't care air of

40:10

like in front of my eyes in front of

40:12

my glasses. So, I, I'm totally

40:14

with you now, when you got through

40:16

this first three months of, Closing the

40:19

book on insurance, being completely free,

40:21

having your members join your practice. In

40:24

terms of the admin side of things did

40:26

you change, I mean, you,

40:28

you told us about your, your, your EMR transition

40:31

in 2016, but what was your experience

40:34

then choosing things like,

40:36

your tech stack to be able to

40:38

do DPC without having

40:40

the burden of coding anymore?

40:43

Yeah. So that would, that has been a work

40:45

in progress and I, I have an ideal

40:47

way things should be. And then I have a way that is

40:50

feasible for me right now. I'm

40:52

very much piecemeal right now

40:54

with all of the components

40:56

of our practice management. Our

40:59

EMR is the same one we've had since 2007.

41:02

Well, I've had since 2007. It's obviously

41:04

been updated, but it handles

41:07

scheduling and, and, visit

41:09

capture and all the,

41:12

all the, Data that we have to

41:14

put in scanning documents

41:16

and such

41:17

Now let me ask you about the, the,

41:19

after effects of you explaining to

41:21

your patient panel, prior to 2023,

41:24

this is what I'm doing. It's called direct primary care.

41:27

I'm still going to be the same Dr. Chun, except

41:29

I'm going to be able to be more of Dr. Chun than

41:31

Dr. Coder Chun. When, when

41:34

you. made the transition

41:36

to DPC. I mean, your

41:39

growth has been insane. I mean, you

41:41

have over 600 patients and this is,

41:44

early of 2024 when we're recording this. So

41:47

in terms of the patient's

41:49

understanding of DPC and

41:51

what that manifested in, in terms of number

41:54

of patients joining your practice, how did

41:56

the growth happen at your practice? Was it all

41:58

upfront? Has it been consistent

42:00

until now?

42:01

No, it's, it's funny. My graph, I wish I could,

42:04

show you it's a, it's a funny camel

42:06

hump that I had the pre enrollment

42:08

and I had about 225 people that

42:10

were enrolled prior to January

42:13

one. And then January was

42:15

another big month because people were like, Oh crap,

42:17

is it, is it too late? So they, I think

42:19

I had a bit of an emotional rush from some

42:21

of the, some of the patients who signed up

42:24

very early on, scared that they weren't. going

42:26

to have the opportunity later. So by

42:28

the end of January, it was like 335 or

42:31

so. So yeah, it was a crazy

42:33

first couple of months that has tailed

42:35

off and I've been pretty flat

42:38

on the growth curve since about

42:40

July or August of last year of about

42:42

a net of 15 patients a month since

42:45

then, which is, I, I anticipate

42:48

that will continue on. It's been that way

42:50

now for six, seven months.

42:52

And in terms of your practice, to

42:54

be able to, spend time with your family,

42:56

spend time with your wife, spend time with your kids, have

42:59

you envisioned a cap on the number

43:01

of patients you'll accept as members at Chun

43:03

Family Medicine?

43:04

I'm ballparking 800. And

43:06

I know that sounds like a lot, and it's more than what

43:08

a lot of people say. I had a,

43:10

I had an active patient panel

43:12

at the transition of over 4, 000

43:15

patients. And I don't say that in a bragging

43:17

way, it just is what I. Tolerated

43:19

and what I got used to it's like boiling

43:22

the frog, and 800 patients right

43:24

now does not seem we're right at 695

43:26

I think today and

43:29

I can still See 8

43:31

to 10 patients a day if I need to that's

43:33

not every day, but That's a pretty

43:35

doable pace. I have a really

43:37

good ma who takes a lot of workload off

43:39

of the Administrative side

43:42

of things and she's definitely worth worth

43:44

her weight in gold and so with that

43:46

kind of seasoned process.

43:50

800 seems doable. I have told

43:52

my wife and I've told Amanda,

43:54

the medical assistant, that, once we get to

43:56

the point that I can't offer

43:58

same day next day appointments or

44:01

can't, get one more prescription

44:03

sent out in the day or whatnot, that's

44:06

when we'll cut it off and let things kind

44:08

of, the attrition back it

44:10

back down to a doable level. But

44:12

I think that's great. I think that's so

44:15

reasonable to say like, it's not

44:17

the number. It's the, if I can't

44:19

provide this level of service, if

44:21

I'm, delving back into the depths

44:23

of the fee for service cattle call medicine

44:26

feel for my practice, then that's

44:28

not what I'm here for. That's when

44:30

I will put the brakes on. And I think that especially

44:33

from physicians who are doing DPC in

44:35

their third to fifth year, I think,

44:37

I mean, you're, you're, you're not even there yet.

44:40

And you're, you're already thinking these thoughts,

44:42

which I think are very, very important for people

44:44

to, to think about. It's re evaluating your

44:46

practice to see, is this still

44:48

allowing, be. Fill in the

44:50

blank that I wanted to have by

44:52

doing DPC, income, time

44:54

with family, etc, etc. I mean you fill

44:56

in the blank for what works for you, but I think that

44:58

that is really important for people to hear.

45:01

It's not the number. It's what

45:03

matters for you and your patient relationship.

45:05

So awesome. Right. In this season

45:07

of

45:07

life too, as an empty nest doc,

45:09

I learned too late in life,

45:12

too late in my career or later

45:14

than I would have liked to, that, DPC existed.

45:16

So, my kids are, are out of the house

45:19

and I don't have to go to ballgames, have

45:21

to, I love going to ballgames, but I, that's not

45:23

part of my schedule anymore. For me to work

45:25

until five 30 or six o'clock, doesn't,

45:27

doesn't ruin the day anymore.

45:30

So it's a little more tolerable when the kids were

45:32

all playing their sports and doing their

45:34

school activities. It was it was a tragedy

45:37

to miss a recital or a ball game.

45:39

And today I can tolerate a little bit more

45:41

flexibility.

45:42

I think about Dr. Anand Mehta. His youngest

45:44

is, I believe, in kindergarten

45:47

or preschool. It's preschool. And I'm

45:49

going out to um, to

45:51

talk with him and other DPC docs in May

45:54

and in Atlanta. And he said,

45:56

okay, guys, I might be late because preschool

45:58

graduation is happening. And we're like no,

46:00

you will not miss your priest, your daughter's

46:03

preschool graduation period like we

46:05

will be fine. The world will continue on if

46:07

you are not, present for whatever

46:09

conversation. And I think that that is

46:12

something that, especially hearing you say

46:14

you couldn't take vacation. I mean, we

46:16

all know those people who, you work,

46:18

work, work, and then something bad happens,

46:21

like the day after you retire, cancer,

46:24

hit by a car, whatever it is. And it's

46:26

it is so tragic that we,

46:28

we have one life and I, I

46:30

hear you when you're saying, you wish you would have heard about this

46:32

sooner. I think this is also why it's so

46:34

important you're sharing your story so that other

46:36

people, no matter where they are in their career, Like

46:39

Dr like Dr. Tom White, I think he

46:41

was 25 years into his career or

46:43

the people who are in residency right now hearing

46:45

this, it's so important to hear from another

46:47

physician what the journey has been like,

46:49

so again, super, super grateful

46:51

for you sharing your story. Now,

46:53

when it comes to pricing

46:56

of your practice, I wanted to ask this because something

46:59

when I was scrolling, as I check out everybody's

47:01

websites, when I was scrolling, you

47:03

have something that goes beyond just the membership,

47:05

the monthly membership, unlimited visits,

47:07

et cetera, et cetera. You have the DPC

47:10

basic plan. So can you tell

47:12

us about what is the DPC basic plan for

47:14

those who have not visited your website? How did

47:16

you develop it and how has it been used

47:18

in your patient panel? Okay.

47:20

The DPC basic offering

47:22

came kind of along

47:25

the way. When I first opened

47:27

the practice to pre enrollment

47:30

we did not have that as an option and

47:33

several of your guests had

47:35

said we don't, we're not making any exceptions.

47:38

This is a, not in a angry

47:40

way, but just, Hey, we're, we've got a product, this is

47:42

what we're selling. And, and here's what we're going to offer.

47:45

And I had so many. People

47:47

I say so many, but I had more enough

47:50

to create a trend that said,

47:52

but I'm just so healthy. I only come

47:54

in for my physical once a year. Is

47:56

this really necessary to pay you all

47:58

year round or pay an annual fee, big

48:00

annual fee? Cause I have a age

48:02

tiered pricing. For

48:05

that one visit. I said, well, that does make

48:07

sense. I hear you and I get

48:09

that. I think I could probably argue the

48:11

value of that, but I, I

48:13

hear what you're saying. So Andrea,

48:16

my wife and I talked about, how, how

48:18

do we solve this problem? Do we cut out these

48:20

healthy people who would be awesome patients

48:22

who we can talk about lifestyle and,

48:24

and wellness instead of, the

48:27

drudgery of chronic illness all the time.

48:30

And she's well, what about, cover one or two visits

48:32

a year and then they still have access

48:34

to the texting and the, and

48:36

all of that. And what does that look like? What are the boundaries

48:38

of that? So we came up with two visits a year,

48:41

which I thought that's a physical and a

48:43

sinus infection or whatever, and then any

48:46

other visit that needed to happen

48:48

within the 12 month membership period

48:51

would be charged at their age

48:53

appropriate monthly rate. So

48:55

if you're, 45 and your monthly

48:58

rate, 75. You pay 75 bucks

49:00

for that extra sunburn

49:02

or poison ivy or whatnot. And

49:04

it's been very well received. I've

49:06

had a few people who have pushed the boundaries

49:08

and I've said, okay, it's it's time

49:10

to pay up and they're like, oh man I've

49:13

missed a couple that it's, they've been seen

49:15

three times, four times, and I didn't realize

49:17

they were on a basic. Plan. So, I've

49:20

gotten quote burned on that, but I've also

49:22

had about 20 percent who said, you know what,

49:24

I'm going to come in more often because I need

49:27

to, or I, something developed. So I'm

49:29

going to transition to the, to the unlimited

49:31

plan. So we just moved their plan

49:34

over, which is super easy and hand is a click

49:36

of a button. And it's so nice.

49:38

And let me ask you there for those patients

49:40

who are like, I completely understand

49:42

the value now. And I want to be a full fledged

49:45

member. If they've already paid,

49:47

it's, it's three months in, they've already

49:49

paid their their DPC basic plan

49:52

for the year how do you,

49:54

how do you, I know you mentioned the button,

49:56

but just I'm asking this more for, Like

49:59

high level envisionment of how do you

50:01

then handle what they've paid

50:04

versus what they owe for the membership?

50:07

Do you just credit their account with what

50:09

they've already paid up until that point?

50:12

You can do that. You can prorate if

50:14

it's an annual payment about

50:16

20 percent do an annual

50:19

payment, the rest do a monthly payment. So it's less

50:22

than the majority. But you can prorate,

50:24

you could restart their start date and

50:26

just start their membership

50:28

and credit the prorated amount going

50:31

forward. There are several different ways

50:33

to do it I don't, my office manager

50:35

does a lot of that stuff. So I don't see that

50:37

most of the time.

50:38

In terms of the word of mouth

50:40

that has manifested from people

50:43

experiencing your practice through the basic

50:45

plan, has that also manifested

50:47

in more patients similar to that one

50:49

person who attended your town hall equaled six

50:51

patients joining?

50:53

Right now. Yeah. Some, some people,

50:56

they, they had the sacrificial family member

50:58

who they sent you're going to have a membership. And then

51:00

if he's okay, we're going to, the rest of the family

51:02

is going to join. So there's some of that. And then

51:04

there is the, yeah, the,

51:06

the, my neighbor said, this is really

51:08

cool. And so they, sent

51:11

a neighbor along or, or whatnot.

51:13

The word of mouth has definitely been the most

51:16

banker about treat your patients right and

51:18

they're going to tell people and they're going to, your neighbor

51:20

is going to go, Oh, I had a sinus infection. I called

51:22

my doctor and got treated the same day and I walked out of the

51:24

office with antibiotics. Like, where the heck did that

51:26

happen? And, and I, by the way,

51:28

I texted him the night before to get

51:30

an appointment and he told me so

51:32

I didn't have to run to the urgent care. So, yeah.

51:35

Yeah, that, that customer service is,

51:37

there's no substitute for that.

51:39

When we talk about customer service with

51:41

you, we talk about your practice. When we talk about the

51:43

fact that you're in Cincinnati and there's lots

51:45

of DPC presence in Cincinnati,

51:47

you are part of TriDPC. So

51:50

can you tell I think. I

51:52

want to say Dr. Meckley had mentioned this slightly, a little

51:54

bit on her episode, but

51:56

for those who have not heard Dr. Meckley's episode, what

51:58

is Tri DPC and how has that affected

52:00

Chan Family Medicine DPC?

52:03

So Tri DPC is a portal

52:05

or a pathway for employers

52:08

to connect a insurance

52:11

plan, some sort of insurance

52:13

plan, whether it's health sharing

52:15

or, or a traditional insurance

52:18

plan with direct primary care.

52:20

So essentially carving out primary

52:22

care from their insurance coverage

52:25

for employers. And there are

52:28

doctors in Cincinnati. I believe they're somewhere

52:30

between 10 and 12 of us here in the Cincinnati

52:33

area tri state that's what the tribe

52:35

Stands for in the Tri DPC, Indiana,

52:38

Ohio, and Kentucky. So that those

52:40

employers have those 12

52:42

doctors to choose from for

52:45

their employees. For me, I

52:47

kind of came in late to the to

52:49

the initiation of that. And so, this

52:52

last open enrollment period,

52:55

I think I picked up about 25 patients

52:57

out of that. And it's it's Great.

52:59

They're, they're great people. The patients

53:02

are, are great. They, they have the same questions

53:04

and the same understanding of DPC as

53:06

the, the regular civilian out

53:08

there. So it's, it's still a lot of a

53:10

lot of education and, and answering,

53:12

how logistical questions for

53:14

it, but it's been a really good relationship. Amy

53:16

Meckley is a, is a

53:18

great mind in medicine and the

53:21

business of medicine, the economics of medicine,

53:23

and, and she's been a great colleague to

53:25

work with. Mentor. She's she's

53:28

taught me a lot.

53:28

When you look back at your transition

53:31

to DPC, for those people who are,

53:33

but the income is going to be different, or

53:35

I don't have an MBA. If you, the people

53:38

who are asking themselves

53:40

I don't think I could do this because

53:42

do I have this skill or that skill? What

53:44

would you say to that person,

53:46

who is aware

53:49

of DPC but is not yet choosing

53:51

to do DPC.

53:53

I would not be scared of DPC

53:56

solely on the business aspect. If

53:58

you can pay bills at home and

54:01

income has to equal your,

54:04

your bills you can figure this

54:06

part of it out. And if you need help

54:08

with an office manager or you need an accountant

54:10

that you can talk to, those are well

54:12

spent dollars. Because the medicine

54:14

comes back and that's the awesome thing is that

54:17

you actually like this whole ethos

54:20

of being a doctor actually comes back

54:22

and it's like having a plant cut

54:24

down at the at the ground and it sprouts

54:26

back Out and I talked

54:29

to another DPC. Dr. Dr

54:31

Jonas and in Beaver Creek, Ohio

54:33

and called him about a problem and

54:35

and I said it'd be great that

54:37

I can actually call a doctor in the middle

54:39

of the day and have a 20 minute conversation

54:42

about something clinical and a little

54:44

bit of, friendship discussion and whatnot.

54:46

And I don't feel like I've just put my schedule

54:48

behind by an hour by, by doing that,

54:51

I, I regained my professional

54:54

identity by doing that.

54:56

So that would be the first thing that I would say is

54:58

if you feel like you're losing your identity,

55:02

the dollars don't matter at the end of the day

55:04

and they will come. If you're really doing the

55:06

thing that you're passionate about it, it

55:09

costs me the fee for service model,

55:11

the current national healthcare

55:14

system cost me,

55:17

I'm sure years on my life, I probably

55:19

would live longer in the, in the zoomed

55:21

out picture. Had I not experienced what I experienced

55:24

The pain and anguish that I went through

55:27

battling that and

55:29

mostly in isolation on my, because

55:31

of myself, doctors, at least

55:34

primary care doctors in many

55:36

settings don't have a lot of contact

55:39

with people. We don't have time to have contact. There's no doctor's

55:41

lounge and outpatient family practice to

55:43

go hang out with the, with the colleagues

55:46

and whatnot. So, it was a very lonely

55:48

struggle for me. And this

55:51

is. This

55:53

has brought me back to being a human,

55:55

being being an equal with, with people

55:58

in my office and, and just in the world,

56:00

it's it sounds overly dramatic probably,

56:02

but, I was one of those people on the verge of

56:05

burnout and definitely suffering physically

56:07

and emotionally in the system wasn't

56:09

the only problem that I had my professional career,

56:11

but it definitely didn't help. And

56:13

I'm. I'm very grateful for

56:15

direct primary care and all the

56:18

things that it brings to my life today.

56:21

Thank you so much, Dr. Chun, for joining us today.

56:23

Oh, it's been my pleasure. This is a, this

56:26

was like, I was like the fan fan boy on

56:28

this. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I got, I'm

56:30

able to be on the show. This is great.

56:35

Thank you for joining us for another episode of

56:37

My DPC Story, highlighting the physician

56:39

experience in the world of direct primary

56:41

care. I hope you found today's conversation

56:44

insightful and inspiring. If

56:46

you want to dive deeper into the direct primary

56:48

care movement, consider joining our My DPC

56:51

Story Patreon community. Here you'll

56:53

have access to exclusive content, including

56:55

more interview topics and much more. Don't

56:58

forget to subscribe to My DPC Story on your

57:00

podcast feed and follow us on social

57:02

media as well. If you're able,

57:04

I'd greatly appreciate if you could leave us a review.

57:07

It helps others to find the podcast. Until

57:10

next time, stay informed, stay healthy,

57:12

and keep advocating for DPC. Read

57:15

more about DPC news on the daily at dpcnews.

57:18

com. Until next week, this is Mariel Concepcion.