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1:04

Sunday, presidential showdown. President Biden and former

1:06

President Trump are set to face off

1:08

in the first debate of the 2024

1:10

campaign. I'm

1:12

not interested in playing politics with the border or

1:14

immigration. I'm interested in fixing

1:17

it. When I'm reelected, Joe Biden's illegal

1:19

amnesty plan will be ripped up and

1:21

thrown out on the very first day.

1:23

Will this high-stakes debate shake up the

1:26

race? My guest this morning,

1:28

Biden campaign co-chair Mitch Landrieu and

1:30

Republican Governor Kristi Noem of South

1:33

Dakota. Plus, running

1:35

mates. Donald Trump narrows

1:37

his choices for his vice presidential pick.

1:39

There's never been a better politician, a

1:41

better debater, a better communicator. I feel

1:43

very comfortable with the fact that I

1:46

could do the job. Who will make

1:48

the final cut? And team of rivals,

1:50

Vladimir Putin, makes a rare visit to

1:52

North Korea to sign a mutual defense

1:54

pact, as he seeks more ammunition for

1:57

the war in Ukraine. How will

1:59

the West confront... this new escalating

2:01

threats. Joining me for insight

2:03

and analysis are the Wall Street

2:05

Journal senior political correspondent Molly Ball,

2:08

Greg Blustein, senior political reporter for

2:10

the Atlanta Journal Constitution, former

2:13

Republican Congressman Carlos Kerbello,

2:16

and Simone Sanders Townsend, former chief

2:18

spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris.

2:21

Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

2:25

From NBC News in Washington, the

2:28

longest running show in television history, this

2:31

is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.

2:35

Good Sunday morning, I'm Peter Alexander, in

2:37

for Kristen Welker. It has been more

2:39

than 1,300 days since the last debate

2:42

between President Biden and former President Trump,

2:44

the last time either man appeared on

2:46

a debate stage. In four days they

2:48

will face off again in the earliest

2:51

general election debate in history, in what

2:53

may be the most consequential face-to-face in

2:55

decades. The two candidates and their allies

2:57

have signaled that they will attempt to

3:00

portray each other in the most negative

3:02

light possible, casting Mr. Trump as an

3:04

unhinged felon and President Biden as

3:06

not physically or mentally equipped to

3:08

serve another term. Crooked

3:10

Joe has gone to a log cabin to

3:14

study, prepare. No,

3:16

he didn't, he's sleeping now because

3:21

they want to get him good and strong. So

3:23

a little before debate time he gets a shot

3:25

in the ass. The things he said are off

3:28

the wall. I

3:30

want to be a dictator on day one. I

3:32

want to move in a direction where he talks

3:34

about, you know, suspending the

3:36

Constitution. All I have to do

3:38

is hear what he says, remind people what he says and what

3:41

I believe what he believes. The

3:43

stakes are high, more than 73 million

3:45

people tuned into the first Biden-Trump debate

3:47

in 2020, and

3:49

President Biden is spending the weekend at

3:51

Camp David hunkering down informal debate prep.

3:54

The president's personal lawyer, Bob Bowers, playing

3:56

the role of Mr. Trump, reprising his

3:58

role from 2020. Mr.

4:00

Trump was on the campaign trail on

4:02

Saturday. Aides say that he's going to

4:04

spend time this week meeting privately with

4:06

advisors at his Florida State as part

4:08

of a more informal debate prep process.

4:11

President Biden closed door fundraisers and on the

4:14

trail has previewed what will be one of

4:16

his key debate messages that Mr. Trump is

4:18

now a greater threat to the country than

4:21

during his time in office. The

4:23

threat that Trump poses greater in

4:25

his second term than his first.

4:27

It's clear that when he lost in

4:30

2020 something literally snapped in his car.

4:32

Now he's running again and he's clearly

4:34

unhinged. Trump allies

4:36

are pushing the former president to focus

4:39

on President Biden's record and some of

4:41

his own plans, instead of venting about

4:43

the legal cases against him and repeating

4:45

false claims of election fraud. President

4:47

Biden's team expects aggressive attacks on the

4:49

president's record on immigration and the economy

4:52

in particular. Tomorrow marks the

4:54

two year anniversary of the Supreme

4:56

Court's Dobbs decision that overturned Roe

4:58

v. Wade and both the president

5:00

and vice president are making the

5:02

fight to protect reproductive rights central

5:04

to their campaign. I

5:07

think that the debate is going to

5:09

make clear the contrast between our president,

5:11

the current president who works on behalf

5:13

of the American people, fights for the

5:15

American people, and the former president who

5:17

pretty much spends full time

5:20

fighting for himself. Mr. Trump's vice

5:22

presidential shortlist has gotten even shorter

5:24

in interviews with NBC News. More

5:27

than a dozen sources wired into

5:29

the process tell us that North

5:31

Dakota Governor Doug Burgum and Ohio

5:33

Senator J.D. Vance are now emerging

5:35

as the top finalists. Florida Senator

5:37

Marco Rubio remains in contention, but

5:39

those sources say there are doubts

5:41

about Rubio's enthusiasm for the job.

5:43

Both Burgum and Vance were asked this week whether

5:45

they want to be VP. When

5:49

he makes that decision it's solely up to

5:51

him and he's the guy that controls the

5:53

criteria. There's never been a better

5:55

politician, a better debater, a better communicator.

5:57

I think that's ultimately... Donald

6:00

Trump's choice, whether he selects me as vice

6:02

president. I feel very comfortable with the fact

6:04

that I could do the job. But look,

6:06

you have to have some humility going into

6:08

this too. And

6:10

on Saturday, NBC News asked Mr. Trump

6:12

whether his vice presidential pick will come

6:15

to Thursday's debate. Most

6:17

likely, yeah. I'm excited for your

6:19

vice president. In my

6:21

mind, yeah. Do they know? What

6:23

problem? Nobody knows. And

6:26

joining me now is Mitch Landrieu, national co-chair

6:28

for President Biden's campaign. Mr. Landrieu, welcome back

6:30

to Meet the Press. Hey,

6:33

nice to see you. Thanks for having me. Let

6:35

me get started. President Biden asked for

6:38

this debate in June, the earliest general

6:40

election debate in history. Aides privately tell

6:42

me that the campaign was looking for

6:44

an opportunity to shake up a race

6:46

that has largely been static for months

6:49

here. Is President Biden the underdog in

6:51

this debate? No,

6:54

I don't think so. The president has debated Donald Trump

6:56

twice and beat him twice already. The president is really

6:59

anxious to tell his story to the American people,

7:01

as he has been doing for the past three

7:03

and a half years. Listen, this race is going

7:06

to be tight. Everybody knows that. It's going to

7:08

come down to a couple of votes in a

7:10

couple of really important states. And it's important for

7:12

the country to see the difference between these two

7:14

men. Joe Biden wakes up every day thinking about

7:17

the American people, fighting hard for regular folks, thinking

7:19

about ways to lift everybody up. Donald Trump wakes

7:21

up every day pretty much thinking about himself, thinking

7:23

about his rich friends and then really thinking about

7:26

ways to hurt people with the power that

7:28

he would have if he were the president of the

7:30

United States again. And I think the president wants to

7:32

be really clear about the difference between those two that

7:35

everybody will see again on Thursday. And Mitch, let me

7:37

ask you, will you at least concede that this is

7:39

a high reward, high risk strategy

7:41

for President Biden, given the doubts that

7:43

Americans have about his ability to serve

7:46

another four years? Well,

7:49

listen, everything that we do is high risk. I

7:51

mean, every campaign that you have is going to

7:53

be closed. So everything that you do has to

7:55

work. It has to be thoughtful. But when the

7:58

American people continue to see Donald Trump do. and

8:00

say the things he's done before, the American people

8:02

are gonna go, I don't want a guy that

8:04

thinks about himself and his rich friends. I want

8:06

somebody that thinks about me that is fighting for

8:09

myself. So I expect President Biden to do an

8:11

excellent job just like he did in the last

8:13

two debates. It really doesn't matter how Donald Trump

8:15

shows up. If he comes in unhinged like he

8:18

is most of the time, or he sits there

8:20

and is quiet, people are gonna know that he's

8:22

a twice impeached, convicted felon who's been found to

8:24

have defamed somebody, sexually abused somebody, and gone bankrupt

8:26

six times. They will always know that, and that

8:29

is something that the American people have to

8:31

think about, about the wisdom, the character, and

8:33

the judgment of the person that they're gonna

8:35

appoint to lead America, not only at home,

8:37

but also to the rest of the world.

8:39

And as you know well, top of mind

8:42

for so many Americans right now, both the

8:44

economy and inflation, despite limited signs of improvement

8:46

for President Biden, polls consistently show that voters

8:48

prefer Mr. Trump over President

8:50

Biden when it comes to handling the

8:52

economy. So how do you change the

8:54

minds of those Americans who say they

8:56

are still not feeling the progress that

8:58

you promote? Well,

9:01

first of all, those feelings are really important and

9:03

they're real, but to remind people that when President

9:06

Biden took over, the country was in the midst,

9:08

as you know, of COVID. They were in the

9:10

midst of, as you now know, an insurrection and

9:13

an economic cataclysmic downfall. President

9:16

Biden came to the rescue. He passed for

9:18

the biggest domestic pieces of legislation that was

9:20

seen in our country's history. He's created 15

9:22

million jobs, the lowest unemployment rate that was

9:24

seen in the last 50 years. But the

9:27

problem is that all of those benefits are

9:29

not flowing down to everybody as quickly as

9:31

possible. And that's why Joe Biden every day

9:33

is fighting to save people money by fighting

9:35

for lower prescription drug costs, fighting for healthcare,

9:37

fighting to make sure people have access to

9:39

housing, fighting to make sure big oil and

9:42

all of the big companies are not taking

9:44

profits when they're not supposed to, and

9:46

making sure that everybody has a better chance to

9:48

support their families. And it's just to be very

9:50

clear, you just mentioned housing. Their home prices right

9:52

now have hit a record high. The medium U.S.

9:54

home price is $419,000. You

9:57

were talking about food prices as well. Those costs

9:59

are up. of 20% since the

10:01

start of the Biden presidency. I wanna ask

10:03

you specifically about the debate. There's gonna be

10:05

no studio audience, and a camera and a

10:07

candidate's microphone is gonna be muted when it

10:09

is not their turn to speak.

10:12

If the Biden campaign's intention is to show

10:14

Trump being Trump, with all the interruptions that

10:16

we saw back in that first debate in

10:18

2020, does this

10:20

in some way prove to be an advantage

10:23

for Donald Trump? Does it cause

10:25

a bigger risk for Joe Biden? I

10:29

don't know. I mean, who knows what Donald Trump is

10:31

gonna do at any minute or any time? I'm gonna

10:33

bet that he's gonna talk over the microphone a hundred

10:35

times like he does because he's a bully, but the

10:37

best way to fight a bully is to stand up

10:39

to him. And Joe Biden has done that before. He's

10:41

gonna do it again. The fact still remains that Donald

10:43

Trump's presidency was awful. 17 of

10:46

his cabinet members left and said, please don't

10:48

elect him again. Three of the people that

10:50

he's thinking about picking as vice president that

10:52

are on his top list actually asked the

10:54

American people not to listen to Donald Trump

10:57

because that he was a fraud. So this is a really

10:59

clear choice. You can have a great guy that's got

11:01

great character, great judgment, great wisdom that fights for the

11:04

American people. Or you can have a guy that thinks

11:06

about himself and just wants to hurt everybody who's not

11:08

for him. It's gonna be a pretty clear choice and

11:10

the American people will get it right. Well, they're gonna

11:12

get a chance to see these two men side by

11:14

side just four days from now. Let me ask you

11:16

about a new ad from the Biden campaign that was

11:19

just released that focuses heavily on Mr. Trump's felony convictions.

11:21

It calls him a quote, convicted criminal who is only

11:23

out for himself. Will Joe Biden make that same argument

11:25

on the debate stage? Well,

11:28

I'll let the president say what he's gonna

11:30

say, but the fact of the matter is

11:32

that the sky is blue sometimes and Donald

11:34

Trump is a convicted felon. And the American

11:36

people have to sit in that for a

11:38

second. The person who wants to be president

11:40

has to go sit with his probation officer

11:42

before he actually goes to the debate. And

11:45

so it is just a fact, but it's

11:47

not just to call Donald Trump a convicted

11:49

felon. It goes to his behavior and it

11:51

goes to his character. Remember, he's actually filed

11:53

bankruptcy six times. That means that he's not

11:55

just a bad business guy. It means he

11:57

screwed all the small people who actually

11:59

relied on him. him for a living. And so the

12:01

American people are going to see that when you have 17

12:03

cabinet members and his chief of staff

12:05

saying to you, I witnessed this guy, the people

12:08

who know Donald Trump, people who know Donald Trump

12:10

the best, like him the least. That's

12:12

worth taking a moment on to think about

12:14

whether or not this guy is just going

12:16

to be better next time at being bad.

12:18

And to be clear, many Democrats say that

12:20

President Biden is spending too much time on

12:22

this particular topic of democracy being at risk.

12:24

It's their argument that if you believe that

12:26

democracy is at risk right now, you're already

12:29

voting for Joe Biden. Are they wrong? No,

12:33

they're not wrong. Democracy is really important. Donald Trump,

12:35

as you know, led the insurrection and talks about

12:37

political violence. And if you undo our democratic norms,

12:40

you don't even have a chance to make a

12:42

living. But the point that they're making and it's

12:44

a good point and it's worthy and Joe Biden

12:46

knows this and is working hard on it. You

12:49

need to lower the cost for American citizens. And

12:51

Joe Biden is fighting for that every day on

12:53

housing costs, on gas, on groceries. Inflation has come

12:55

down from 9 percent to 3 percent because Joe

12:57

Biden is working every day. And don't forget, Americans

13:00

are now back in work. We're building things now.

13:02

We're making products in the United States of America.

13:04

The stock market has set four all time highs,

13:06

but we've got to do more because people are

13:09

feeling the pain and Joe Biden wants to make

13:11

that easier for them. Mitch, let me ask you

13:13

about this. In the 2020 campaign, you'll remember after

13:15

four years of Donald Trump, Joe Biden promised to

13:17

return the nation to what he called normalcy and

13:20

he cast himself as a bridge to new leadership.

13:22

Here is what he said then. Look,

13:25

I view myself as a bridge, not

13:28

as anything else. There's an entire generation

13:30

of leaders you saw stand behind me.

13:33

They are the future of this country. So

13:35

here we are four years later and Joe Biden is

13:37

back on the ballot. What changed? Well,

13:41

nothing changed. Joe Biden didn't say that he was

13:43

going to be a one term president. He said

13:45

he was going to lay a strong foundation to

13:47

build a new generation of leaders. And my goodness,

13:49

look at all the incredible Democratic leaders we have

13:51

across the country. We have governors now that didn't

13:53

that want an office before that are now doing

13:55

an incredible job. Wes Moore in Maryland, who, as

13:57

you know, was right there when the bridge collapsed

13:59

and with the president got that back

14:01

up in operation. Mitch, if there's so many other good

14:03

Democrats out there, why not hand the reins over to

14:05

a different Democrat, this go around, where you would take

14:07

away the concerns about his mental fitness to

14:10

serve? Well,

14:12

first of all, Joe Biden does have any

14:14

concerns about his mental fitness, nor do I.

14:16

I've spent an incredible amount of time with

14:18

Joe Biden. That's just the fade that the

14:20

other side is pushing. Joe Biden has taken

14:22

this country from being in a cataclysmic downfall

14:25

to actually leading the world once again, and

14:27

he's gonna continue to do that. And he

14:29

has built up and a tie a new

14:31

generation of leaders that will govern this country

14:33

really well into the future. And so he

14:35

succeeded masterfully in both of those things. Let

14:37

me ask you about policy, if I can.

14:40

Mr. Trump is expected to, per our reporting

14:42

to attack President Biden as being weak on

14:44

immigration, amplifying the examples of undocumented migrants committing

14:46

crimes. President Biden is losing ground with some

14:48

Latino voters. How will the president respond to

14:50

those attacks? Well,

14:53

first of all, the border is in

14:55

trouble, and it has been for the

14:57

past 20 or 30 years in this

14:59

country. Joe Biden on day one, on

15:01

day one, sent a comprehensive immigration reform

15:03

proposal to Congress. They did nothing with

15:06

it. Then, as you may recall now,

15:08

four months ago after the Congress doing

15:10

nothing, the president met with the most

15:12

conservative Republicans in the country. They asked

15:14

for everything in the border bill the

15:16

president gave them to him. And because

15:18

Donald Trump called and told them not

15:20

to do it, that border bill is

15:22

still waiting challenges. And so we have a long

15:24

way to go on that. It's a very important issue

15:27

and making sure that America is safe and secure as

15:29

one of Joe Biden's top priority. But, Mitch, to be

15:31

clear, the question is, why is Joe Biden losing ground

15:33

with some Latino voters right now? Well,

15:37

I don't know. I think that you got to play

15:39

this thing out and see actually how it works. Latino

15:41

voters are like everybody else. They move around from space

15:43

to face. You see this with African-American voters as well.

15:46

The point of the matter is most Americans want a

15:48

safe and secure country. They want a stable president. They

15:50

want somebody that is fighting for them. And at the

15:52

end of the day, I think that they're gonna vote

15:54

for Joe Biden. Mitch Landrieu, we appreciate

15:56

your joining us and sharing your perspective. Thank you

15:59

very much. we come back Republican

16:01

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17:19

back former president Trump says he only

17:21

knows who he will pick as a

17:23

running mate. He's only one with that

17:25

information in his mind and on Saturday

17:27

at a gathering of religious conservatives here

17:29

in Washington. The crowd had some ideas

17:31

shouting VP VP as our next guest

17:33

took the stage and joining me now

17:35

is Republican governor Kristi Noem of South

17:37

Dakota governor Noem. Welcome to meet the

17:39

press. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. We

17:41

heard how President Biden is preparing for

17:43

the bait from Mitch Landrieu moments ago.

17:45

Here's what a group of veterans of

17:48

presidential debate prep said Republican strategist Carl

17:50

Rove about what Donald Trump needs to

17:52

accomplish. They said quote everyone agreed that

17:54

Mr Trump cannot come off as unhinged

17:56

or enraged the words rigged election should

17:58

not pass his lips. He has

18:00

to keep his cool and cannot make it

18:02

all about himself. Is that good advice, Governor?

18:05

I think it's an important debate. It'll be a

18:07

great opportunity for President Trump to talk about his

18:09

policies and how his policies, when he served as

18:11

president of this country, were good for every single

18:14

family that lived here. They had more money in

18:16

their pockets. The grocery prices were down, gas prices

18:18

were down. There was a lot more opportunity. So

18:20

he's gonna have a fantastic opportunity to talk about

18:22

what his policies delivered for the American people.

18:24

To be clear, in 2022, you said the

18:26

personal insults are part of what you did

18:28

not appreciate about Mr. Trump. Should he avoid those

18:31

insults on the debate stage? You know, I don't think

18:33

that he has to talk about get personal

18:35

in this debate at all, because he's gonna

18:37

have so many good things to talk about

18:39

in contrast with Joe Biden's policies. Republican, sorry.

18:42

Joe Biden's policies have just been devastating for

18:44

the families that live here in this country.

18:46

Their costs have gone up. They've had

18:48

less opportunities. And they're

18:50

just really incredibly challenged right now with trying

18:52

to afford to put food on the table.

18:55

So that's really what I think President Trump

18:57

is planning on focusing on. So let's talk about

18:59

the economy for a moment, if we can. And specifically

19:01

Mr. Trump's plans on it. He has talked about a

19:03

60% tariff on all

19:05

Chinese imports. He recently floated an

19:07

all-tariff policy. As you know, he

19:09

calls himself a tariff man, which

19:11

economists say is effectively a tax

19:14

on American consumers. So how would

19:16

sweeping new tariffs help middle and

19:18

lower-income Americans? Well, I believe when he

19:20

was talking about that, what he was referencing was getting

19:22

rid of the income tax, which obviously would help every

19:24

single family in this country too. And doing that in

19:26

exchange with some of those tariffs. They

19:28

don't pay the income tax. So wouldn't they end up paying

19:31

more in the tariff if it affected all Americans? I served

19:33

on the Ways and Means Committee when I was

19:35

in Congress. And that's the committee that does all

19:37

tax policy, all trade policy. And many times when

19:39

we talk about trade and trade with other countries,

19:41

and especially with China, we talk

19:43

about free and fair trade. Unfortunately, we've gotten

19:46

a lot of free trade. We've never been

19:48

treated fairly by China, not once. They have

19:50

manipulated their regulations and hit us at their

19:53

borders with regulations that take

19:55

more money out of Americans' pockets. They've never

19:57

been fair to us. So President Trump has

19:59

recognized that... many times with countries like China

20:01

who do violate our trade agreements all the

20:03

time that you have to have some consequences

20:06

when they do that. And I want to

20:08

talk specifically about what you have said about

20:10

tariffs in the past and the resulting trade

20:12

wars in Donald Trump's first term. You said,

20:15

quote, South Dakota has been devastated by the

20:17

trade wars that are going on. Do you

20:19

still agree that more tariffs, as Mr. Trump

20:21

proposes, could be devastating to South Dakota's economy?

20:23

I think it's very important to remember and

20:26

be specific about when tariffs are utilized. So

20:28

I'm a farmer and a rancher. And

20:30

many times when you talk about tariffs, they

20:32

do have an impact on us and on our incomes. The

20:35

soybean farmers know as well as anybody in your state. Yes.

20:38

And we also know very well that when our soybeans

20:40

hit the border of China, that they hit us with

20:42

sanitary and phytosanitary regulations and reject our shiploads of soybeans

20:44

based on things that aren't even in our trade agreements.

20:46

And when China hits you back, it had a real

20:48

impact on the people in your state though under Donald

20:50

Trump's watch. Well, listen, they are. China is definitely our

20:52

enemy when it comes to the Communist Party and who

20:54

is run by that government. They've never

20:56

treated us fairly under our trade agreements. And I'm hopeful

20:58

that President Trump will continue to be strong and fight

21:00

for the American consumer. Let me ask

21:02

you about the infrastructure law. It never got

21:04

passed under President Trump. It did pass with

21:06

bipartisan support by President Biden in 2021. It

21:09

has provided South Dakota with $1.5 billion for more than 250

21:12

projects. They

21:15

include more than $800 million for roads and bridges, $47 million for airports, $100

21:21

million to expand broadband access. Has South

21:23

Dakota benefited from President Biden's bipartisan infrastructure

21:25

law? You know, South Dakota has used

21:28

dollars from the federal money to help

21:30

better the families in our state. But

21:32

we also have helped our families by

21:34

opening up our state and by making

21:37

sure our economy was strong. We've

21:39

made very different decisions when President

21:41

Biden was in office than we did when President Trump

21:43

was. I would say that every day as

21:46

governor, when Trump was in the White House, I was on

21:48

offense. I was able to go out there and solve problems

21:50

for Americans and for people in my state. With

21:52

Biden and the White House now, I've

21:54

been on defense. It's been a consistent

21:56

fight against regulations and administrative rules. and

21:58

interpretations and even lawsuits from the federal

22:00

government on what we're doing. So we-

22:02

So to be clear, you wouldn't give

22:04

the $1.5 billion back. So

22:07

has your state, has South Dakota benefited from the

22:09

$1.5 billion? We have used those dollars strategically. So

22:11

you benefited, you would agree. I would say that

22:13

those dollars we use strategically knowing that if we

22:15

returned those dollars back, they'd be sent to another

22:17

state. And that they would use them. Some of

22:20

them we've rejected though. The ones that came with

22:22

ties to green new energy deals and

22:25

some regulations and more control for the federal government,

22:27

we've rejected some of those dollars recognizing that it

22:29

was just a way for Joe Biden to grab

22:31

more control over our families. Let me ask you

22:33

about some of our reporting that shows there are

22:35

three names now on Donald Trump's shortlist to serve

22:37

as his vice presidential pick. Yours is not one

22:39

of them right now. Are you being vetted? Have

22:41

you received the paperwork? The only person who knows

22:43

who the vice president's gonna be is Donald Trump.

22:45

Have you received the paperwork though? No, I haven't

22:47

received any paperwork. No, I haven't. I've had conversations

22:49

with the president and I know that he is

22:51

the only one who will be making the decisions

22:53

on who will be his vice president. You said

22:55

that having a woman on the ticket would help

22:57

Donald Trump win. And he said on this program

22:59

last year that he liked the concept of running

23:01

with a woman. Only men, as you know, are

23:03

on his shortlist right now, Bergen Vance Rubio. Would

23:05

Donald Trump be making a mistake if he does

23:07

not pick a woman as his running mate? You

23:09

know, I think he needs to pick the best

23:11

person for the job. He needs to help someone,

23:14

pick someone that will help him win. And I

23:16

think that President Trump is in a fantastic position

23:18

to win this election. He's strong, he's right on

23:21

all the policies. He needs to

23:23

pick somebody who will help him win and

23:25

make sure that he's back in the White

23:27

House fighting for America. I need to ask

23:29

you, you wrote in your recent book, No

23:31

Going Back, about shooting your dog cricket. Of

23:33

course, the blowback was intense there. Do you

23:35

think that sharing that anecdote, whether fairly or

23:37

unfairly, cost you a shot at being his

23:39

vice president? You know, I would say that

23:41

that was a story from 20 years ago

23:43

about me protecting my children from a vicious

23:45

animal. So, you know, we've covered that and

23:47

any mom in those situations when

23:49

you have an animal that's viciously killing

23:51

livestock and attacking people, it's

23:53

a tough decision. The reason it's in my book is

23:56

because that book is filled with challenging time is in

23:58

hard decisions and it's a story about it. but I

24:00

think many Americans will be able to read and to

24:02

learn how they can get engaged with their government again.

24:04

And to be clear, Republicans have had a lot

24:06

to say about your story. Puppy dogs are pretty

24:09

popular from Senator Mike Rounds of your state. I

24:11

was pretty stunned when I read it, said another,

24:13

why would you do that to a puppy? It's

24:15

just crazy. Even Donald Trump said about that episode,

24:17

Governor, that you had a bad week. Do you

24:19

think it cost you a shot at being his

24:22

VP? Did you read the book? We have read

24:24

a lot of the book. I haven't read it cover to cover,

24:26

but read a lot of portions of it. It's a wonderful book. And

24:28

if you read the book, what got reported was not the truth, was

24:31

not the truth on the story. So I would encourage people to read

24:33

the book and to really find out

24:35

the truth on why that story is in there

24:37

and read the other parts of the story about

24:39

how we're not going back to politics the way

24:41

that it used to be. How Donald Trump changed

24:44

politics because we're having much more honest and genuine

24:46

conversations about the challenges that people face. So let's

24:48

talk about the book, having gone through much of it

24:50

right now. This week, Russian President Vladimir Putin traveled

24:52

to North Korea to meet with Kim Jong Un. In

24:54

the first release of your book, he wrote, I remember

24:57

when I met with North Korean dictator, Kim Jong Un,

24:59

there was no evidence that that meeting happened. So

25:01

how did it make it into your book, Governor? I'm

25:03

not gonna talk about that. You're not gonna talk

25:05

about having it in your book? I took that line out of my book

25:07

and I'm not gonna talk about it. I guess my question is, you

25:09

wrote the book though. So why was that line ever in your book

25:11

if it didn't happen? I wrote the book and I hope

25:14

people will read it. It's a good book about how

25:16

the American citizen can get involved in their government again

25:18

and what they can do and how the most powerful

25:20

person in government is them. It's the

25:22

people who show up, who get engaged and the

25:24

stories of what they can do to take this

25:26

country back and how Donald Trump's policies work for

25:28

the American people. And understood then just to put it to bed

25:30

once and for all. Did you or did you not meet with Kim

25:32

Jong Un? I am not going to talk about this. Wouldn't

25:34

it be any, why is that such a difficult

25:36

one to say publicly? Because I've taken that line out

25:39

of the book and I'm not going to discuss it.

25:41

Okay, but I guess the question is because you

25:43

wrote it in the book. People just wanted to

25:45

know whether that was an accurate or inaccurate statement. Let

25:47

me ask you about the topic of abortion, one

25:49

that you focused on heavily at the Faith and

25:51

Freedom event last night. As a member of Congress, you

25:53

voted for federal legislation that defines life as beginning

25:55

at conception. Donald Trump does not support that. In fact,

25:58

he now says that he would not take. any

26:00

federal action on abortion, if

26:02

elected, is that the right call? You

26:05

know, I think what's important is that Roe v.

26:07

Wade, in that decision of it being overturned, has

26:09

given the decision back to the people at the

26:11

state level and every state will look different. I

26:13

think that's appropriate. So I know that

26:16

every state will have different laws and what we need to

26:18

do is continue to talk about what we can do to

26:20

help women who are in crisis, what we can

26:22

do to walk alongside them and support them and

26:25

love them. And you know, when people find an

26:27

unplanned pregnancy, that's a very difficult time for many

26:29

of them when they're challenged with that. And so

26:31

that's what we've chosen to do in South Dakota,

26:33

is to make sure we're focused on supporting

26:36

women and supporting families and making sure that

26:38

we're taking care of those that find

26:40

themselves in this type of a situation. And as you

26:42

know, on this topic, South Dakota has some

26:44

of the most restrictive laws in the country.

26:46

It has no exceptions allowing an abortion in

26:48

cases of rape and incest. Donald Trump says

26:50

he supports those exceptions, said he would not

26:52

pick a running mate if they do not

26:55

support those exceptions. Why is he wrong on

26:57

that? Oh, I wouldn't say that. I would

26:59

say that every state is gonna look different. And he said that

27:01

many times over. In fact, you know,

27:03

in our state, specifically the people decide, the

27:05

people will decide what the law looks like.

27:07

I as the governor don't get to be

27:10

the dictator. You know, we

27:12

get to talk to people about what the law

27:14

will be and have that discussion and then every

27:16

state will look different. We're in the shadow of the

27:18

Capitol right now, just outside the building here on January 6th, 2021.

27:21

You posted a message immediately condemning the

27:24

violence. You said what's happening in the

27:26

Capitol right now must stop. What message

27:28

is Donald Trump governor sending by promising

27:30

to pardon the rioters who have been

27:33

convicted if he wins? I think each

27:35

of those situations needs to be looked at separately. So

27:37

you can't put a blanket approach. So you would disagree with

27:39

him in pardoning all of them. I would say that

27:41

every single one of those cases needs to be looked at specifically.

27:43

So let me ask you specifically about the. What I have

27:46

been very clear about is that we don't wanna

27:48

see another January 6th again. Nobody in this country

27:50

wants to see another day like that again. And

27:52

I believe that Donald Trump, when he comes back

27:54

to the White House we're

27:57

gonna have incredible opportunities to show that people

27:59

in this. country will be safer, they

28:01

will have law and order back in our streets.

28:03

If you look at one of the most violent

28:05

areas of our country is often Democrat run cities,

28:08

sanctuary cities with an open border. In fact, by

28:10

the time the country is down 50% since Joe

28:12

Biden took office, but specifically just to get back

28:14

to this topic of the writers, is Donald Trump

28:16

wrong when he says he would pardon all

28:19

of those who have been convicted in the January

28:21

6th attack? Each of those individuals needs to be

28:23

looked at separately as far as what their role

28:25

was and what has happened in that situation. And

28:27

132 of them who admitted to assaulting

28:29

law enforcement officers, would you agree that they should not

28:32

be pardoned? I think that every one of those cases

28:34

needs to be looked at individually. And if they admitted

28:36

to, you would agree that that would be? I think

28:38

that this is what our judicial system is for. It's

28:40

supposed to be the scales of justice and lady justice

28:42

is supposed to be blind. So

28:45

I guess the question is would that be based on the grounds

28:47

if they attack law enforcement officers? That will be based on his

28:49

prerogative and his decision when he looks at those cases. But

28:52

what I would say is that we have a

28:54

nation, we are a nation of laws and they

28:56

need to be enforced. And we have a president

28:58

in the White House today that is ignoring federal

29:00

law. He is ignoring federal law and allowing people

29:02

into this country that are incredibly dangerous. And

29:04

there just this week, I think we had four

29:07

different people that were attacked or raped or murdered

29:09

by illegal immigrants that have come in over our

29:11

open border. And that can not continue to happen.

29:13

To be clear, as you know, well, undocumented immigrants

29:15

commit crimes at a much lower percentage than Americans

29:17

do. But let me ask you a last question

29:19

about your future, which is regardless of whether you

29:21

were on the ticket this time, are you considering

29:23

a presidential run in the future in 2028? Oh

29:26

my goodness. I'm considering being the governor of South

29:28

Dakota as long as they'll have me. So I

29:30

love my job. It's the best job taking care

29:32

of the people in my state and and

29:35

that's my plan. It's a beautiful state. Are you

29:37

ruling it out? I'm not

29:39

even thinking about it right now. So I certainly

29:41

have a situation where I'm busy at home and

29:43

we have a lot to get accomplished in South

29:45

Dakota the next several years. Okay, to be clear,

29:47

at least for now, you're not ruling it out.

29:49

Perhaps we'll see you again along the way. Kristi

29:51

Noem, Governor of South Dakota. I appreciate your being

29:53

with us in person. Thank you so much. And

29:55

when we come back, incumbent presidents often struggle in

29:57

their first debate. Will President Biden be ready? The

30:00

panel is next. Welcome

30:12

back. The panel is here Greg Blustein senior

30:14

political reporter for the Atlanta Journal Constitution Molly

30:16

ball senior political correspondent for the Wall Street

30:18

Journal. Simone Sanders towns and former chief spokesperson

30:21

to vice president Kamala Harris and host of

30:23

the weekend and former Republican congressman Carlos Cabello

30:25

of Florida. Appreciate you're all being with us

30:27

as we look ahead to the debate coming

30:30

up Molly. I'll start with you. President Biden

30:32

and Mr. Trump they're going to be facing

30:34

off and Atlanta just a few days from

30:37

now 1300 days since either of these

30:40

men have been on a debate stage who

30:42

is facing more pressure who's the pressure on

30:44

when you say like that it doesn't even

30:46

feel like that long right look this debate

30:48

is hugely consequential. It's the first chance for

30:50

either candidate to be to break out of

30:52

what has essentially been a tie for the

30:54

past year and try to shake things up

30:56

term momentum in their favor. I think you

30:58

have to say that more pressure is on

31:00

president Biden. We know from polls

31:02

that voters have more doubts about his age

31:04

and his ability to do the job. They

31:06

want to see him perform in a high

31:08

pressure pressure situation as you say neither of

31:11

these candidates has debated in many years. And

31:13

so I think there's going to be a

31:15

lot of interest on on

31:17

just their respective stamina their ability

31:19

to Perry questions and speak consistently

31:22

and comprehensively in addition to what they actually say

31:24

and what sort of demeanor they want simply to

31:26

synthesize your thoughts into these 2 minutes sound bites

31:29

that you may get are one minute other times

31:31

Greg, this is your home state. What are you

31:33

going to be watching for look the pressures on

31:35

president Biden in my view as well. There's been

31:37

a lot of questions about his polls about his

31:39

ground game about enthusiasm about grassroots energy and about

31:41

whether you can do the job and so there'll

31:43

be a lot of pressure looking at how he's

31:46

going to synthesize those answers and also what he

31:48

can get Donald Trump to say you know, I

31:50

think in a week from now we might be

31:52

talking more about what he got

31:54

down to go to Donald Trump and saying and

31:56

less about what president Biden said himself. Someone in

31:58

comments historically have lost. the first debate go back

32:00

to Barack Obama with Mitt Romney back in 2012.

32:03

What are you hearing about how the Biden campaign

32:05

is trying to prevent that from happening here? Well

32:07

look I think first of all the Biden team will

32:09

tell you that they they the

32:11

reason we are here today in this particular

32:13

space looking forward to debate this Thursday is

32:16

because of the challenge that the president issued

32:18

to the former president to meet him at

32:20

the debate stage earlier than usual outside of

32:23

the presidential debate commission and I think

32:25

that they're setting that they set the terms and

32:28

now they know that they have to rise to

32:30

the occasion the Biden folks do believe that every

32:32

time they've asked the president to you know meet

32:34

the moment he has so they're not concerned about

32:36

that I think that from

32:38

the Trump perspective though I think that Donald Trump has a

32:40

lot right on this debate as well and I understand

32:42

why the pressure would be on Joe Biden as

32:45

the incumbent but Donald Trump we haven't

32:47

seen him on a high-powered debate

32:49

stage standing next to his opponent

32:51

talking about the issues we hear him railing

32:53

raging against the machine in front of a

32:55

camera all the time but not talking substantively

32:57

about the issues Joe Biden regularly speaks substantively

32:59

about the issues probably would like to be

33:02

more so in a interview frankly for a

33:04

lot of us than then what we've been

33:06

seeing but we know where he stands on

33:08

the issues how will he meet the moment is a question

33:10

but where does Joe where does Donald Trump stand on the

33:12

issues what is what does Donald Trump

33:14

need to do for a good night

33:16

Peter no self-inflicted wounds Donald Trump is

33:18

oftentimes his own worst enemy as everyone

33:20

has said here the pressure is not

33:22

on him I mean there's some pressure

33:24

but the heavy pressures on Joe Biden

33:26

he's the one who has to perform

33:28

Donald Trump can actually take governor noem's

33:30

advice and talk about policy boring things

33:32

that's what Donald Trump needs to do

33:34

in this debate be vanilla reduce his

33:36

risk profile to make some of those

33:39

Americans who switched to Joe Biden

33:41

in 2020 who chose Joe Biden 2020 because

33:43

they thought Trump was too risky too chaotic

33:45

he has to counter that narrative Molly president

33:48

by no Simone yes but that to me

33:50

means that pressure is on Donald Trump because he has not

33:52

hard we have not seen him can do that is very

33:54

hard right now can you do these are the

33:56

things that the allies are saying it seems

33:58

like it shouldn't be tricky we haven't necessarily

34:00

seen it happen yet Let me ask you

34:03

about something we've noticed from the Biden campaign

34:05

in recent weeks. They particularly leaned in to

34:07

referring to Mr. Trump as a convicted criminal,

34:09

clearly unhinged, the president has said in recent

34:11

speeches. Is that the right message to take

34:13

into this debate? Well, look, the Biden campaign

34:15

believes they're doing something very clever here by

34:17

making this argument that because, that Trump being

34:19

a convicted felon shows you that he's focused

34:22

more on himself. And it reminds

34:24

me actually of a version of the argument that

34:26

a lot of the Republican, his Republican opponents made

34:28

in the primary, which was the idea that these

34:30

legal issues that he faced would be a distraction

34:33

to him. And it didn't work then. Voters did

34:35

not believe that he'd be too distracted by his

34:37

personal issues to govern or to

34:39

be the nominee. It'll be interesting to see if

34:41

the Biden campaign continues to feel that this is

34:44

an effective attack. You know, a

34:46

lot of Democrats believe that in 2016 Hillary

34:48

Clinton spent too much time attacking Trump's character

34:50

and not enough talking about the policies he

34:52

would implement. And at the same time, there

34:54

is a feeling that a lot of the

34:56

disengaged voters that Biden needs to reach don't

34:58

necessarily know about all this baggage that Trump

35:00

has. Well, perhaps I think there's also the

35:02

concern, right, that they want to make sure

35:05

they know about the economy and what his

35:07

vision is for the next four years. So

35:09

many Americans I'm struck as I travel around

35:11

the country, Greg, don't even know what Joe

35:13

Biden has accomplished in the course of his

35:15

four years. You're a Georgia guy, one of

35:17

the critical battlegrounds. Donald Trump narrowly lost it.

35:19

Lasko around this time, he consistently leads in

35:21

all the polls. How does Joe Biden appeal

35:23

to the independent voters there? Well, I think

35:25

he appeals partly with that argument about the

35:28

convicted felon. I mean, think about Georgia. Georgia

35:30

is the backdrop to this debate. It's also

35:32

the home of a significant number, small but

35:34

significant number of disaffected Republicans who switched ballots,

35:36

who switched tickets in not just in 2020,

35:38

but also in 2022. And also

35:40

some of them in 2018. These are

35:42

voters that are concerned about Donald Trump's background.

35:45

They're his history. It's not a huge number,

35:47

but enough that swung the election in 2020

35:50

and enough that helped Senator Raphael Warnock get elected in

35:52

2022. How concerning is the

35:54

fundraising advantage that Joe Biden had? It's now all

35:56

but been erased by Donald Trump. A lot of

35:58

it after his. conviction in Manhattan there. How worried

36:01

should the Biden campaign Simone be about that? I

36:03

don't think they should be too worried. Look, this

36:05

debate is gonna be a big moment of fundraising

36:07

opportunity for the president as well. He's coming off

36:09

the heels of a big fundraiser in LA with

36:12

everybody from George Clooney to Julia Roberts. So

36:14

I think the money will be there. The

36:16

question on the table is, for the folks

36:18

that are not tuned in, right? Some of

36:20

those younger voters, based Democratic voters, and some

36:22

of those diseffective voters as well, those disaffected

36:24

Republicans, will what they

36:27

see on the debate stage this Thursday make a

36:29

difference for them? Let's just be- How does an

36:31

81-year-old or a 78-year-old speak to a

36:33

21-year-old in this country? Well, well, I know some

36:35

younger people, maybe

36:37

not 21-year-olds, but some mid-20s,

36:39

early 30s folks who would

36:41

love to buy a house, but it's very expensive,

36:43

who feel their rent is too darn high to

36:46

be clear. And so what is Joe Biden gonna

36:48

do about that if given a next term? And

36:50

does Donald Trump have a plan? I haven't heard

36:52

one. Carlos, we had new reporting today about who

36:54

the sort of front runners are. Is this Whittles

36:57

Down? The number of VP picks? Doug Burgum, JD

36:59

Vance, Marco Rubio, sort of the third choice as

37:01

we are told right now. Who would be the

37:03

best asset for Mr. Trump? Well, Peter, apparently, Burgum

37:06

is the one Trump likes the most

37:08

and feels most comfortable with. Vance would

37:10

be the next leader of the Amaga

37:12

movement. Rubio's got a little

37:14

residency issue, right, being from the state

37:17

of Florida. However, I think that politically,

37:19

he brings the greatest benefits to his

37:21

ticket. I want you to think about

37:23

two groups in particular, Hispanics. They've been

37:25

migrating towards Republicans. Rubio can accelerate that.

37:28

And Greg, you mentioned these Trump skeptics,

37:30

the Republicans who are weary of Donald

37:32

Trump. Marco Rubio is a figure that

37:34

could give those people comfort. The people

37:36

who are still showing up in primaries

37:38

voting for Nikki Haley. Those are two

37:41

groups that Trump really needs to lock

37:43

down and Rubio can provide that benefit.

37:45

Not even mentioning the fact that Rubio

37:47

would be a great governing partner too,

37:49

given his foreign policy. Greg, does the

37:51

VP pick matter anymore? I

37:54

think it does. Look, margins, this is a

37:56

margin of error race, and the race will

37:58

be decided in the margins in states like

38:00

Georgia. states with just a small number of

38:02

voters could affect the outcome. But look, it

38:04

could also have a countervailing effect, right? Picking

38:07

a JD Vance could also help energize the

38:09

Democratic base. It could help get Democratic-based voters.

38:11

Look, if you talk to Democrats in Georgia

38:13

about Joe Biden's, quote unquote, problems

38:15

with black voters, they don't see it as

38:17

a battle between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. They

38:20

see it as a battle between Joe Biden and

38:22

the couch. And getting someone on the far right

38:24

who could energize Democratic-based voters could end up helping

38:26

Joe Biden in the end. Simone, you worked

38:28

for Kamala Harris. Who does she want to debate

38:31

in this? I think either any of the

38:33

folks that were named would be, I

38:35

don't know about formidable. I heard someone say that

38:37

JD Vance be a formidable and concerned opponent for

38:39

Vice President Harris. I don't think so. I think

38:42

she is someone that could take either

38:44

of them. Because the reality is it's not about

38:46

who the VP pick is, because your name is

38:48

the number two on the door, not the first

38:50

name on the door. It's about what Donald Trump

38:52

says. And that vice president, whomever they may be,

38:54

will have to defend his record and all of

38:56

the things that he said. And Molly, last thought,

38:58

notably all three of those names we mentioned have

39:00

been very critical on tape against Donald Trump in

39:02

the past. You can already see the ads writing

39:04

themselves. You play the VP picks voice, attacking

39:07

the guy at the top of their own ticket. Well,

39:09

it's hard to find anyone who's been in the Republican

39:11

Party for more than five minutes who hasn't said something

39:14

negative about Donald Trump that they then had to eat.

39:16

But look, I think Trump wants a

39:18

few different things out of his VP pick. And

39:20

I think, to Carlos's point, the decision he makes

39:22

is going to be a massive statement about what

39:24

kind of presidency he sees himself potentially having in

39:27

a second term. Is it about the future of

39:29

the MAGA movement? Is it about taking someone like

39:31

a JD Vance? Or is it about a yes

39:33

man, which is something that we know that he

39:35

wants throughout his administration, is someone who will not

39:37

say no to him and will sort of make

39:39

him feel comfortable indulging all of his instincts. And

39:41

so I think it's going to tell us really

39:44

a lot about how he plans to govern which

39:46

of these men he plans to govern. The last

39:48

vice president he had doesn't, isn't supporting him. And

39:50

I think that's very telling. He was a yes

39:52

man until he wasn't. We got more to talk

39:54

about when we come back. And the best advice

39:56

for a president in a reelection debate that has

39:59

been learned over time.