0:00

W. C. Fields once said he would

0:02

like his epitat to read I'd

0:05

rather be living in Philadelphia, which was

0:07

his actual birthplace. Um,

0:09

but actually I would rather be

0:12

living in Philadelphia at least this week

0:14

where the Democratic National Convention is

0:16

being held, because it has been

0:18

a fascinating experience,

0:20

not only to be here, but in Cleveland

0:23

last week. Brian, how does this compare to

0:25

other conventions you've witnessed?

0:28

This is much different.

0:30

I mean, on one level, it's the

0:32

same. There are the logistical issues,

0:34

there's getting around a convention hall. There's

0:36

all that stuff, the role call, the funny

0:39

outfits, the buttons, the pens,

0:41

which I always love from the great state

0:44

of Delaware, where the ice cream bars

0:46

or coldest, where the orange juice

0:48

is sweetest. But on

0:51

another level, this is really

0:54

a strange campaign because even

0:56

though we're in Philadelphia for the Democrats, all

0:58

anybody's talking about Donald Trump.

1:01

I built the business, and I didn't start

1:03

it with a million dollar check from my father. Safeguarding

1:06

freedom and security is not like posting

1:08

a TV reality show. This

1:11

guy doesn't have a clue about

1:13

the middle class, not a clue.

1:16

This is not like any campaign

1:18

I've seen or I've ever read about in history.

1:21

It's something we're going to be talking about

1:23

with our guest Frank Lentz, who's

1:26

coming up in a minute. Frank is a Republican

1:28

pollster. He's also part

1:30

time comedian or a wannabe. We

1:33

tease him and call him checky, but he's

1:35

got a million jokes. In fact, we could hardly get

1:37

him out of the studio without

1:39

him telling us some Chris Christie jokes

1:41

which I will not repeat, and a Bill Clinton

1:44

joker too. He was fair and balanced, like Fox

1:46

News where he works and CVS.

1:48

He's quick to point out, yes, even his

1:51

media contracts are are balanced.

1:53

But we should just tell you a little bit about him,

1:55

because even though you may not have heard

1:58

his name, I think you're going to be the earlier

2:00

with some of his work. He's really

2:02

come up with the words that have really

2:04

defined our politics over the last

2:07

twenty years. So when

2:09

we say climate change rather

2:12

than global warming, when we say

2:14

death tax rather than a state tax,

2:17

energy exploration instead of oil drilling.

2:19

He's really helped Republicans over the years

2:22

try to position their policy

2:24

a little bit differently to appeal

2:26

to more voters. His critics believe that

2:29

you know, he's creating a misleading impression.

2:31

He's he's steering the

2:33

voters to believe something that isn't true. His

2:36

supporters say, this is what's happened

2:38

in politics throughout history, and he's just a

2:40

very effective strategist. We'll talk to him about

2:42

being sort of the official GOP wordsmith,

2:45

but also about the mood of the country because

2:47

Frank travels everywhere. He's

2:49

talked to so many people over the

2:52

past several months, and I

2:54

think he has his finger on the pulse, perhaps

2:57

better than almost anyone. So I can't

2:59

wait to year from him so he

3:01

can share with us what people are sharing

3:03

with him.

3:06

Frank Lens is in the house. I

3:08

know I'm in trouble, doctor, Frank leans,

3:10

we should get the full title. That's right, you have a PhD.

3:13

Right, According to Bill Maher, he wasn't quite

3:15

sure. Frank Lean says, over here, and doctor

3:19

doctor, it's great to see your

3:21

doctor. I

3:23

know we just watched that boy. He was tough

3:25

on you. Frank was that hard? It was awful.

3:27

It was awful. It was awful because I

3:30

had come on to be candid. I had come on

3:32

to have a real conversation, not take

3:34

a partisan position. I was specifically

3:37

told by the executive producer, don't tell

3:39

jokes. That's not let

3:41

be serious, be

3:44

be open, be candid, And

3:46

every time I tried to do it,

3:48

it was another Trump joke and another Trump

3:50

jokes. What's going on? I saw all

3:53

week? It is now tied Trump

3:55

and Hillary forty forty. Explain

3:58

this to me how and in saying

4:00

racist and orange grease paint can

4:04

be tied with the former First Lady.

4:06

And I kept waiting for the real conversation

4:09

to happen, and it never did. Well. Clearly

4:11

he viscerated you because you

4:13

are associated with Republicans and

4:16

Bill is clearly a liberal Democrat.

4:18

So I think it wasn't necessarily

4:21

a match made in Heaven from the get go, right, but

4:23

it was. I said to his executive

4:25

producer that he blew a good opportunity

4:28

because there are times, just as you

4:30

have comedies that have a very serious show.

4:32

There's humor in it, but they deal with a serious

4:34

topic. I was ready to really

4:37

open up, and I'm not doing

4:39

that again. I learned from this politics

4:43

does not and media does not reward

4:45

candor. It does not reward

4:49

the truth. It rewards

4:51

a real articulated, well explained

4:55

facts and information. But

4:57

if you are being reflective, you are punished

5:00

for it and you are not celebrated

5:02

for it. It's kind of like your version of the Colonel

5:04

Jessu. You can't handle the truth,

5:07

no, because that's entertainment.

5:10

Yeah, you're actually trying to describe

5:13

what you're seeing in the country because you do more

5:15

focus groups than probably any

5:17

other professional in America. I'm

5:19

the closest thing to a mayor, but I'm a mayor

5:21

For the company's group of eighteen women

5:23

to Studio fifty seven yesterday and included

5:25

six Republicans, six Democrats, and six

5:28

independents, and they did not find much common ground.

5:30

Every night, I'm seeing or thirty

5:33

new people every night, I'm learning what bothers

5:35

them. I'm learning their challenges and

5:37

their hopes and dreams and and it's all

5:39

positive or negative, but I'm hearing it in

5:42

reality. So let's start with Donald

5:44

Trump. I want a word or phrase

5:46

for you all to describe Donald Trump

5:49

patriot, clown show, hate monger.

5:51

And so every night when I go to sleep, I take

5:53

that with me. It doesn't leave me.

5:55

And in fact, you don't seem like a happy camper

5:58

right now, because I guess the things

6:00

you're hearing out there in the country are

6:02

not happy. When I started this back

6:05

in I don't

6:07

know there was Ross Perot

6:09

who I worked with. UM. Even

6:12

the anger had its borders

6:15

that you would disagree with somebody,

6:18

but you would not take them outo the wood shed.

6:21

Today, in our current political

6:23

environment, there are no limits.

6:25

You have the right to get into

6:27

someone's face and scream at them. You have the

6:29

right on national television to insult

6:31

them. You have the right not to stop at

6:33

the commercial break, but to continue

6:36

to pontificate because you've got the right to

6:38

be heard. This is one collective

6:40

temper tantrum. And for me and

6:42

I never went through this, it is like

6:45

mom and dad fighting with each other, and

6:47

I have to make the choice who I'm going to live with

6:49

for the next four years. I don't want

6:51

to live with either of them. It's it's

6:53

it's rough. Can I ask you a question. We

6:55

we've talked about this a lot. Why

6:58

are people so angry? Because if you

7:00

look at so many of the indicators, the

7:02

economy has been growing for seven years.

7:05

Unemployments below five cut

7:07

in half since President Obama

7:10

took office. Yeah, wages

7:13

are stagnant there, they're

7:15

not rising like they used to. H

7:18

Long term unemployments a larger

7:20

challenge, but we face far worse in the past.

7:22

Why are people so uniquely angry

7:24

now? Because the three people who are sitting at

7:26

this table do not feel any economic

7:29

suffering at all, and that if any

7:31

of us lost our jobs or something went wrong,

7:33

we'd be okay. For fifteen

7:36

or of America, they are doing great.

7:38

And the truth is the wealthy shouldn't

7:40

be angry with Barack Obama. They should embrace him

7:43

because this has been the best time for them. The

7:46

people who are suffering, and I say

7:48

this as someone who's right of center, the people

7:50

who are suffering are the working class.

7:52

They had forty hour a week jobs ten

7:55

years ago. Today it's twenty eight hours a

7:57

week because their employer is

7:59

trying to avoid paying for health care even

8:01

though they claim that healthcare and it has

8:04

uh provided care for

8:07

eight to ten million people who did not have it

8:09

before. There's six to eight million

8:11

people who lost their health care and almost

8:13

everyone has seen it increased significantly

8:15

the cost. We no longer

8:17

believe that our employers will be there for

8:20

us ten years from now. We have no faith in our

8:22

retirements. Social Security doesn't pay

8:24

for anything, and so if you are a

8:26

family of four at about fifty

8:28

two fifty four thousand dollars a year, you

8:31

have no savings, you have no safety

8:33

net, and you have no future. And

8:35

if you're in your fifties or sixties,

8:38

you have no opportunity to fix it. So

8:41

I'm living through the fact that some of

8:43

the things that I believed as

8:45

recently as a few years ago have proven not to be

8:47

true. And both sides are

8:49

failing. And I'll make one last point. I apologize

8:52

for no it's fascinating, which is that

8:55

it's all right, But this is this is my life every

8:57

day, which is I don't want to live in a country

9:00

tree that is in decline. I

9:02

went to Oxford, I got my defail from

9:04

Oxford University, and I

9:06

talked to these kids whose parents were in charge of

9:08

the world, not grandparents, but parents. I

9:11

don't want to be them. I will

9:14

give up, and I've done well. I will give it

9:16

up for a country that is happy and

9:18

healthy and progressing, a

9:20

country where most people do get

9:23

to experience their dreams if they

9:25

work hard and play by the rules. But

9:27

that's not America right now. And so I I

9:29

jokingly say I'm moving to New Zealand, the

9:31

southern Island because the weather is good,

9:34

people are great. But it's

9:36

becoming less and less of a joke. I

9:38

can understand that, and it's it

9:40

is difficult because I do think the three

9:42

people at this table are detached

9:45

from reality on many levels.

9:48

Brian told me about a statistic

9:50

that what percentage Brian of people

9:53

cannot deal with an unexpected four expense?

9:56

For I think it's about

9:58

the American people. This was a study from the Federal

10:01

Reserve would not be able

10:03

to afford an unexpected four expense.

10:05

I think people are really really

10:08

hurting, and and yet

10:10

there seems to be two America's

10:13

in many ways. So is this

10:15

solvable? I mean, can a president really

10:17

change all of this? And are

10:19

there limits to a presidential power? It

10:21

was solvable in two thousand eight, Barack

10:25

Obama had the capability.

10:27

And I'll just illustrate this with what I saw

10:30

on January nine. I

10:32

came to the inauguration. I was not a

10:34

supporter of his, and I

10:37

saw fifteen year old um

10:40

inner city youths helping

10:43

seven year old women with mink coats

10:45

and diamonds that are worth more than

10:47

this studio helping them across this

10:50

area because there were barriers and all sorts of security,

10:52

and I saw people who have never talked to each other before

10:55

ever have the most amazing

10:57

conversations. And on that

10:59

day I actually thought, Wow,

11:02

this guy is going to be transformational. And

11:05

it went to hell so fast. You

11:07

surely can't put it all on his shoulders.

11:09

Aren't there greater forces at work

11:11

here? Frank like globalization,

11:14

this transition we're witnessing from an

11:16

industrial to a technological society,

11:19

the fact that you can't necessarily go into

11:21

your father's business as

11:23

a as a blue collar worker because

11:26

manufacturing has has

11:28

declined. In some cases, yes,

11:30

it's been moved overseas, but in some cases

11:33

it's been replaced by technology and robots.

11:36

So I mean, aren't there bigger things

11:38

that are affecting this this sort

11:40

of summer of our discontent? But

11:43

this country went through a global war that

11:45

we possibly could have lost, and

11:48

we came out of it stronger. We went through

11:50

two global wars in the twentieth century.

11:53

We have had we have we have went

11:55

from the horse and buggy to the car. I'm

11:57

not saying there aren't things that you can

12:00

do. But I'm just saying, can

12:02

you blame all these things? I'm

12:04

President Obama. I was going to cite Nancy

12:06

Pelosi. Republicans

12:09

could not meet with her. I did not know this at the time.

12:12

She would not meet with a Republican. A Republican

12:14

could not carry legislation, a Republican

12:16

could not offer an amendment, a Republican

12:19

could not lead a debate.

12:22

They were completely and totally cut off.

12:25

So when I actually got a chance to ask questions

12:27

of them, and this wasn't this It took till two thousand

12:29

twelve. I do not interview

12:32

a single Republican who had a single meeting

12:35

in her office, not

12:37

one. Democrats

12:39

were told, do not talk to them, do

12:41

not engage with them, do not allow

12:44

them to co sponsor legislation. It's

12:47

our turn now. And

12:49

that is that after they said things like

12:51

we our goal is to make sure Barack Obama

12:53

has a one term presidency. Though that was

12:56

January five of two

12:58

thousand seven, before Barack Obama is

13:00

even president. If you remember,

13:02

the two thousand sixth election is

13:04

what brought Nancy Pelosi the speakership,

13:06

not two thousand and eight, and

13:08

so all that poison had been unleashed,

13:12

and the one that the Democrats used to just

13:14

really hate New Engrich new

13:16

Gangwich set aside. Every single day, every

13:18

day of his speakership, he met with Democrats,

13:21

which used to drive Republicans nuts. In

13:23

fact, to actually go back and correct history.

13:26

Newt was almost overthrown by Republicans,

13:28

not by Democrats, and the Republicans

13:31

who are trying to overthrow him were angry with

13:33

him for spending too much time with

13:35

the other party. Wasn't it the contract

13:38

with America? And that he kind of

13:40

the chickens came home to roost after

13:42

he suggested what many people saw as

13:44

draconian measures. You mean what

13:46

Bill Clinton talked about at

13:49

his convention speech about welfare reform,

13:51

that after years and years, they both they actually

13:54

agreed, they compromised, that they

13:56

compromised on legislation that balanced

13:58

the budget, that you had a Democratic

14:00

president and a Republican Congress that actually

14:03

brought the budget into legitimate balance.

14:06

That you had a Democratic president and a Republican

14:08

Congress that actually got welfare reform

14:10

and put people back to work. It

14:13

can work. And gang which is not the easiest

14:15

guy to get along with, and Bill Clinton is not

14:17

a walk in the park, and yet

14:19

they got it done. And we don't have

14:22

that right now. But both parties have a kind of

14:24

a partisan disaster narrative

14:26

when things took a turn, So like sore,

14:28

she's too happy that you're explaining

14:31

why I feel the way that I do. So I'm

14:33

here at the Democratic Convention. They're treating me great.

14:36

Well, let's talk about being here at the Democratic

14:38

National Convention. What are your

14:40

thoughts in terms of what you've

14:43

seen so far. I don't understand

14:45

why the Clinton campaign didn't turn to the Sanders

14:47

people and say stop the protests.

14:50

You're making us look foolish.

14:53

At the Republican Convention, they booed Ted Cruz

14:55

and that lasted for twenty four

14:58

seconds and that was it. That's

15:00

one Number two is I

15:04

refuse, I absolutely refuse to demonize

15:07

any of these people, because if you have a

15:09

conversation with them, either

15:11

Clinton or Sanders, there is

15:13

a there is both a fear

15:16

and a hope and a

15:18

commitment to something better. I

15:21

don't like it when the two conventions

15:23

for four nights just abuse

15:25

each other. You have every right to

15:28

hold Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton accountable

15:30

for what they have said and what they have done.

15:34

But it gets so extreme.

15:36

You know when when people were talking about the

15:39

Republican Convention and particularly

15:41

Donald Trump's acceptance speech, they used

15:44

words like dark, depressing,

15:46

dystopian, and yet it

15:48

played much better in the real world.

15:51

Is that because people are feeling dark

15:54

and depressed? It's because people they

15:57

felt that he told the truth and

15:59

that's what they want more than anything else. They just want

16:01

you to look them straight in the eye. Don't be politically

16:03

correct, don't be gentle, tell

16:06

us the truth. Now you

16:08

have basically of the country

16:10

that still is positive and hopeful. You

16:12

have to believe our best days

16:14

are behind us, and there's the that's

16:17

in the middle. Trump was specifically

16:19

appealing to those and basically saying,

16:22

they're not going to tell you the way things are. I

16:24

will. You may not like it, but

16:27

I'm going to be direct with you. And yet,

16:29

do you think the solutions that he's providing

16:32

are specific enough and realistic?

16:34

At some point, aren't people going

16:36

to be saying where's the beef? I

16:39

mean when he

16:42

has a responsibility in the debates

16:44

to do that, but just in the debates. But

16:47

the first step is to tell the truth.

16:49

The first step is to articulate

16:51

how people feel. But you're telling you that Donald

16:53

Trump telling the truth. I mean, the fact checkers

16:55

kind of went nuts during his speech because

16:58

he was describing crime

17:00

out of control immigrants

17:02

is uh, you know, modern mob

17:05

of of violence around the

17:07

country. He was describing unemployment

17:09

as it as far worse than it

17:11

actually is. Is he trying to create the prices?

17:14

But it's America's

17:16

version of the truth. This is how Americans feel.

17:19

And so every time that the Obama administration

17:21

says, hey, we've turned the

17:23

corner, things are getting see the

17:25

Obama people don't feel it. And the problem

17:28

is people in a bubble. Uh,

17:30

when's the last time that you had a meal at

17:33

Denny's. It's

17:35

been a long time. I admit I

17:37

prefer waffle House. Have you do you

17:39

really go there? Sometimes? I

17:41

live in Las Vegas and I go to some of these

17:44

cheaper face and there's no reason for me too, but

17:46

it's what I do, and I probably stop going

17:48

to those cheap things. Look at me. I basically

17:51

it's like I like being around Chris Christie

17:53

because then I look like the after photo rather

17:55

than the before. And you know, I know,

17:59

Jackie Love, I'm

18:02

not sure you're going to be able to make that claim. I'm I'm

18:04

going to explode, But I see the people

18:06

who are there, and when I'm up,

18:09

when I'm getting food is the best time because

18:11

people's guards are down. And to ask

18:13

them, why did you choose here? Why are you at

18:15

this hotel? And the answer is,

18:18

we can't afford a vacation. This is

18:20

the only place that we can afford. And we drove

18:22

here. We drove here from Phoenix, we

18:24

drove here from Los Angeles, we drove here from

18:26

San Diego. They can't

18:28

even afford We always

18:31

assume, right that when you work hard,

18:34

you get one week or two weeks off and you

18:36

take your family somewhere. This is

18:38

all that they can do because they can get a hotel

18:41

room for forty nine dollars a night that

18:43

the whole family can have a big meal for

18:45

under sixty bucks. And that's

18:48

and when gas prices were at four dollars a gallant,

18:50

they couldn't even do that. Let's

18:52

talk about why they're

18:55

attracted to Donald Trump, because

18:58

I know, in many ways he's a vessel or

19:00

proxy for the anger and frustration

19:02

and resentment that many people

19:04

are feeling. I get that,

19:07

But then don't you need

19:09

to take a step further. What will he

19:12

do? How is he going to change things?

19:14

And it's these broad, broad

19:17

strokes, But that's

19:19

the problem. Frank just wrote

19:21

a card and I just wrote the word. But so

19:24

everyone listens. I

19:28

used the word ass on Hannity yesterday,

19:30

which would have got me into trouble, except one of

19:32

the Benghazi guys used the effort

19:34

after me, so then everyone

19:36

forgot that. I think they asked, is the mascot

19:39

of the Democratic Party? Yes, and I and

19:41

I fill up the chairs with mine. So

19:46

it's always the butt and these people listen

19:48

to the Trump voter listens for the button.

19:51

To my surprise, when Donald Trump has asked

19:53

the question about Rosey o'donald in that first

19:55

debate, and I thought he was done, I

19:57

admit it. I thought it was over between

20:00

John McCain and

20:02

and Mexican rapists and

20:06

all of that. I thought he was done. Political

20:09

correctness matters

20:11

so much to these people, and

20:13

the fact that he's willing to say things unedited,

20:16

uncensored, just put it out there. It

20:19

agitates people what he says, but

20:21

they're so grateful that he says it. And now look

20:23

at the reverse. Hillary Clinton hasn't

20:26

delivered a traumatic line, hasn't

20:28

stepped outside her comfort comfort zone.

20:31

Ever, Donald Trump runs to the

20:33

TV cameras, she runs away from them.

20:35

Donald Trump never delivers

20:37

a prepared speech, except for what

20:40

three times now in the whole campaign. She

20:42

can't do anything but a prepared

20:44

speech. He is way too loud,

20:46

she's way too careful. He's way too out

20:49

there. She's way too controlled. And

20:51

for the average American, they

20:53

want to look you in the eye, which is why instance

20:55

people take their sunglasses off. They want

20:57

to look you in the eye and decide do you really mean it? With

21:00

Donald Trump, they believe that for all his

21:02

faults, he's a real guy.

21:04

They believed that for Hillary Clinton, that for

21:06

all her experience, she's

21:09

not and that

21:11

is what could prevent her from being president.

21:14

We want authenticity, what about

21:17

experience and confidence? Experience

21:20

is less important than judgment.

21:23

Tell me what you're going to do, not what you've done

21:25

already. She's done

21:27

the sort of traditional thing that you do in

21:29

campaigns, and maybe that doesn't

21:31

work anymore where. She has a big policy

21:33

team, and they put out numbers and

21:35

they send it to analysts and the newspaper

21:37

reporters, you know, pick it apart.

21:40

Trump has put out tweets

21:43

and statements, some of which contradict

21:46

each other, and they're tied. And

21:49

and what does that tell you

21:51

want to hear about programs? People want to

21:53

hear about platitudes.

21:56

No, they want to hear they want to know who you are. If

21:59

she had come clean on

22:02

the Clinton Global Initiative, if

22:04

she did an interview and I'm going to be specific

22:07

with Leslie stall On sixty minutes,

22:09

and Leslie was the way she usually

22:12

is, which is tough but fair, and

22:15

she were to say, I am

22:17

far from perfect, and

22:20

I have made significant mistakes

22:22

in my career. But I

22:25

asked that you examine the balance. I asked

22:27

that you look at the things that I got wrong and compared

22:29

to the things that I got right. And

22:32

it is essential that I

22:36

level with the American people because I'm asking

22:38

them for their support. If

22:40

she did that, she is the next president.

22:44

If Donald Trump announces on day

22:46

one that he will conduct

22:48

a forensic audit of the US

22:51

budget and brought in Deloitte

22:53

Ian why KPMG

22:57

brought in the brought in the big and

23:00

within one d days, we will go through every

23:02

line and we will cut every single

23:04

program that doesn't work, and if you are responsible

23:06

for that program, you will be looking for work. He's

23:10

the next president. She

23:12

needs to level, she needs to be candid,

23:15

humble, He needs to be specific

23:18

with one program that bothers

23:20

the American people more than anything else. Waste,

23:23

government waste, Washington waste even

23:25

more than government waste, because people they don't have

23:27

issues as much with their local community or even

23:29

their state government. What they hate is when

23:31

Washington does it. But he hasn't

23:33

done it, and she hasn't done it, and

23:36

I don't know if either of them will do it. And

23:38

so I go across the country. I

23:40

eat in my Denny's, I go to my buffets,

23:43

and I get depressed. And every once in a while

23:45

I get to come to a Philadelphia and

23:47

then get hot and depressed. We're

23:51

going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

23:59

Let's get back to the of you. Why

24:02

do you think Hillary Clinton isn't doing

24:05

more of what you said? Why didn't

24:07

she apologize immediately

24:10

after the email scandal and and say,

24:12

you know what, I screwed up. This was so this

24:14

was a stupid but honest

24:17

mistake, and I'm not even asking

24:19

and not even suggesting she needs to use that word,

24:22

because I know that there'll be people who would hear this podcast

24:24

and say she has nothing to apologize for. But

24:27

she did make a mistake. She said she mistakes.

24:31

If I were her campaign manager, I would tell

24:33

her to lower the podium as she walks

24:35

out onto the stage, have the podium

24:37

go down slowly, and say

24:40

to the audience, into the world, my

24:43

name is Hillary Clinton. I

24:46

have been a lawyer, a

24:51

researcher, second Chary of State

24:53

of an United States senator. I

24:55

have prepared my entire life for

24:58

what is arguably the toughest job on

25:00

the face of the globe. And I

25:03

don't need a teleprompter to tell

25:05

you where I stand or what

25:07

I will do. And

25:09

then she delivers the speech that she has delivered

25:12

without a podium, without that teleprompter,

25:14

that's right out the center. She can do

25:16

it. I was going to say, she's actually incredibly

25:19

gifted, almost as good a speaker without

25:22

notes as Bill Clinton is. I

25:25

think she's just been so so careful

25:27

during the course of this campaign. I mean I

25:29

have seen her walk around a stage without

25:31

a teleprompter, without notes and

25:34

just dazzle an audience, the contrast

25:37

between her and Trump. If

25:40

she were to do this would be so

25:42

significant, and she can

25:44

absolutely do it, so why

25:46

not Why do it the

25:48

way it's always been done before? When you

25:50

know that the American people desperately want you to look

25:52

them straight in the eye. I think the visual of that

25:54

would be very powerful. But I'm more interested

25:57

in what the content of the speech is going

25:59

to say. And the ch American isn't no,

26:01

no, no, no no. I don't think that's true. I

26:03

think that if she conveys

26:07

true honesty and

26:10

and humility and

26:12

talks about you

26:15

know, I think some of her flaws,

26:18

perceived or real, I

26:20

think it could be very

26:22

moving as well. And I think what Franks saying,

26:24

I think what Frank's saying this really interesting is

26:28

the issues, the substance,

26:30

the specific ten point plans, they

26:32

don't matter very much to voters. Well, that's what

26:35

David Brooks wrote about the other day. He talked

26:37

about, you know, with Democrats,

26:39

the answer to every problem is a program.

26:42

But what Donald Trump

26:44

is being so effective at is

26:47

really really kind of measuring the

26:49

mood of the country and calibrating

26:52

his statements to to reflect

26:54

that mood, and that

26:57

the Democrats need to somehow

26:59

do that too, and it's just not

27:01

in their DNA. Their DNA

27:03

is to be much more specific on policy

27:06

points when they need to be more

27:08

touchy feeling right, well,

27:10

there will be a whole lot of Republicans would argue with

27:12

that that their DNA is a government

27:15

solution when they need to

27:17

think more about how solutions

27:19

are delivered on the local level,

27:22

uh public private partnerships with

27:24

a focus on the private rather than the public.

27:27

That the problem with the Democrats is

27:29

that they continue to focus

27:31

on Washington, which has never

27:33

been more in popular than it is right now.

27:36

If that becomes the context,

27:39

she represents the Washington solution,

27:41

which she has for quarter century.

27:43

Trump represents the American

27:45

solution. Trump will beat her. If

27:48

that's what the context is. What

27:50

worries you most about a Clinton presidency

27:53

or a Trump presidency. What worries

27:55

me most about a Trump presidency is that I

27:58

want to see more or knowledge.

28:02

I want to see a better

28:04

understanding of the consequences of every

28:06

decision. The

28:08

smartest political person I ever worked for was

28:11

New Gingrich, and he could tell you

28:13

that if we do A, then B and

28:15

see, you're gonna happen, and if they happen, then that's going

28:17

to impact D, E, N F. And you could

28:19

go all the way through the alphabet. So he

28:21

saw the impact. For example, if you're gonna do environmental

28:24

legislation and say we will not build homes

28:26

here, you cannot build twenty story

28:28

tall apartments. Now what's the consequence of

28:30

that. It means that you're then going to have to

28:32

build sixty miles away. More

28:34

cars are going to be on the road, so it's gonna put

28:36

more C O two into the air. So

28:39

then you say, okay, we're gonna add a catalytic converters,

28:41

so you have to address the pollution. So what does

28:43

that do? Car prices go up. People

28:46

can't afford it. They're gonna have to buy older

28:48

cars, use cars. He

28:51

knew the consequences of it. That's

28:53

not what Trump does. And I

28:55

really want someone now who if

28:57

they say we have to do X,

29:01

that they will know the consequences to Y and

29:03

Z. He has said things

29:05

like we're going to round up and deport

29:07

eleven million illegal immigrants. Nobody

29:09

believes that. I don't know if if

29:11

Donald Trump gets elected, I'll be prepared to bet

29:13

you right now that that never happens,

29:16

and why is he saying it, and why doesn't

29:18

it matter that he doesn't mean it? You need

29:20

Donald Trump to answer those questions for you. When

29:23

we did a session with Republicans

29:25

and immigration. And by the way, Republicans

29:28

want a pathway to legal status.

29:30

Republicans do, Marco Rubio,

29:33

Jeb Bush, But but average

29:35

Republicans, grassroots Republicans. Republicans

29:38

believe that if you were brought here through no

29:40

fault of your own, if you're brought here as a child, you

29:42

should be allowed to stay here as an adult, if

29:44

you go to college and you have a job. Republicans

29:47

believe that building a wall is not the

29:49

answer to illegal immigration,

29:51

although they do want genuine border security.

29:54

But those weren't the Republicans who were

29:57

nominated. It's Donald Trump that

29:59

was nominated. And who who is for mass deportation

30:01

in a wall. So how can you

30:03

say, on the one hand, they want these sort

30:05

of center right moderate

30:07

positions, and on the other they nominate the

30:09

person with the most extreme position because

30:12

they keep electing members to Congress that really

30:14

do want to get this resolved.

30:16

They really do want solutions rather

30:19

than platitudes, and rather than this anger, and

30:21

they believe even as they voted for Once again,

30:23

I come back to they wanted to vote for somebody

30:26

who said it like it is. They wanted to

30:28

vote for someone who wasn't Millie

30:30

Mouth. There's someone who they thought that would

30:33

buckle. And Trump is a tough, tough

30:36

guy. So that's why

30:38

they voted for him, even if they disagree with him on

30:40

policies like immigration. There's a broader point

30:42

you're making that. I think it's really interesting you

30:44

said Trump is being rewarded

30:46

for telling the truth, for saying it like it is,

30:49

and yet so much of what he says is

30:51

verifiably not the truth.

30:54

It's the truth as he sees it.

30:56

How do you square those two. They rewarded Hillary

30:58

Clinton for have in the experience

31:00

even though they absolutely agreed with Bernie

31:03

Sanders. Bernie Sanders is the

31:05

heart and soul of the Democratic Party today.

31:07

Bernie Sanders agenda and platform

31:10

is what a majority of Democrats believe. I

31:12

don't believe that platform is electable

31:14

at this point, but Bernie Sanders

31:17

is the most popular and credible national

31:19

politician alive today, even

31:21

higher than John McCain, now, much higher than

31:24

Barack Obama. Way higher than Hillary Clinton,

31:26

are any of the Republicans? Jeff Bush, Mitt Romney,

31:28

Bernie Sanders, an avowed socialist,

31:31

is the most popular politician. And the reason

31:33

why is because he said what he meant and meant

31:35

what he said. And even though the public disagrees

31:39

with all that free stuff he wants to give,

31:41

they loved him for saying it because

31:43

they thought he really believed it. It's the same

31:46

thing with Trump, and the only reason why

31:48

you don't say it is because you're not with them.

31:50

You're not with these people. How many Trump

31:52

rallies did you go to when you sat from beginning to

31:54

end? I went to

31:57

toning. That's not bad. How

31:59

many you go to? Zero? Zero? You

32:01

gotta go to one because the music is great

32:03

if you like, if you like, uh, no,

32:06

classic rock. He I

32:08

gott admit something because and

32:11

now I get animated. No, don't

32:13

rap, No, we have to. I'm getting

32:15

a note from our producer that I

32:19

have seen everything, and I'm jaded

32:22

and cynical. So I'm watching waiting

32:24

for the rally, and people start to commend here

32:26

it's it's about to begin. The

32:28

most powerful guitar riff of any

32:31

song, to me, is

32:33

the opening of revolution. When

32:35

John Lennon plays that screeching guitar,

32:39

the moment that that song hit and

32:41

I can't I can't say the moment the first

32:43

chord. Trump steps up on

32:45

stage and everyone goes nuts, and

32:47

you hear and you think revolution,

32:51

Donald Trump politics. And

32:54

I felt it for the first

32:56

time in this entire campaign. I

32:59

felt it, as did people in the

33:01

room. And that's what's going on right

33:03

now. When Bernie Sanders takes the stage,

33:05

the guy is so old that takes him

33:08

an hour and a have to watch sixteen minutes. He's

33:10

so old. His favorite painting is the last supper

33:12

is the second waiter from the left. The

33:17

only time he doesn't have to pee is when he's

33:19

paying. That's how old this guy is. And

33:23

and and but what did he do? He had

33:26

twenty one year olds eating out

33:28

of the palm of his hand. These

33:30

rallies, they were all positive. People were so

33:32

funny, even people who knew what I

33:34

do and knew that I worked for Fox. They'd

33:37

come over and they would ask me, is he gonna do okay?

33:39

Is he gonna be okay? And I told

33:41

them, I don't think he's gonna win. But your

33:43

ideas are gonna win. Watch what happens.

33:46

It's not just about the man, it's also about

33:48

the principles. And his principles are changing

33:50

the Democratic Party, which means they're going to

33:52

change the country. And that and and

33:54

young people were so tuned in on

33:57

that. Do you think they're going to come out

33:59

and support Hillary Clinton in the

34:01

end. So right now

34:03

it's se of Sanders, people

34:05

support Clinton on decided

34:08

supporting Donald Trump. She

34:11

has to take that and bring it up

34:13

to nine. She has to. If

34:15

she does that, she's probably the next president.

34:18

If it is below eighty five, she may

34:20

well lose because states that matter, Iowa,

34:24

New Hampshire, Nevada. These

34:26

are states where it's very close. And

34:28

if you're losing your own base, then you're

34:31

going to have a challenge. I believe she wins at

34:33

this point, but I'm but I'm

34:36

also convinced that Trump could win

34:38

if he runs a solid campaign

34:40

and does well in the debates. President Obama said

34:42

is much this week in an interview.

34:45

I have to ask you what you're most

34:47

afraid of when it comes to a Clinton presidency.

34:50

Um, I'm most afraid

34:52

that this partisanship and

34:54

this rancor gets even worse. She's

34:57

known for reaching across the aisle. I feel like

34:59

I'm being a Hillary apologist, but I'm

35:01

not. I'm just saying the fact of

35:03

the matter is when she was senator. That's

35:05

again, in addition to being a good listener.

35:08

One of the things they tout about

35:10

her governance that she does

35:13

work with Republicans. She understands

35:15

the schmooze factor, having

35:17

a drink in the Oval office with

35:19

with those who may think differently than

35:21

she does. Bill

35:24

Clinton talked about Tom Delay at the

35:26

Democratic Convention, and

35:28

I'm sitting next to Antonio via Rigosa

35:30

and I said, my god, you would never have heard Tom

35:33

DeLay's name mentioned at a Republican convention.

35:35

That's right, because he was an adoptive father, right,

35:37

he adopted a child. But he's being celebrated

35:39

at the Democratic convention. And then who's the next

35:41

name? He mentions, new Gingrich never

35:44

once mentioned at the Republican convention.

35:47

So here is Bill Clinton celebrating

35:49

these conservative Republicans at the Democratic

35:52

I'm thinking, man, my coludes

35:54

are kicking back up again. And

35:56

explained so much, Frank, and it's

35:59

like, don't do the edible from Colorado. Guys.

36:01

By the way, I've got one piece of advice as a way to close this.

36:04

Don't buy the marijuana licenses in

36:06

Colorado. Buy the pizza parlor licenses

36:08

right next door. That's

36:11

how you'll make money. Or that's

36:14

that's good. Also, can I ask one to last political

36:16

questions? So there's a theory

36:19

right now among a lot of political professionals that

36:21

you win by pumping up your base, that

36:23

it's a retro idea to reach to

36:25

swing voters in the center. And that's a big

36:28

divide in our politics between

36:30

those who believe in just going for the base and

36:32

those who want to appeal to swing voters.

36:34

Where do you come out on that? I

36:36

come out on trying to basically

36:39

blur the lines between base and

36:42

center. And so I'm trying to reach six

36:45

of the country or seventy of

36:47

the country, not fifty one, and

36:49

obviously not a hundred. I know that people are going to disagree

36:52

with me. I accept that. I don't want

36:54

them to be enemies of mine. I want them to be opponents.

36:57

And that's where we've gotten it wrong. We now

36:59

think that the people who we don't appeal to

37:01

our our enemy. We have to

37:03

lower the decipline level so they see

37:06

us as people that we disagree

37:08

with, but not as people that should be punished

37:11

or destroyed. The

37:13

rap on you, I guess in some circles

37:16

is that you have inflame

37:18

some of this divisiveness with

37:21

words that work and words

37:23

that work. So how does that inflame? Well, you

37:25

know, because they sometimes misrepresent

37:29

rather than school choice. I'm the one who argued

37:31

for parental choice or moving

37:34

from UH vouchers

37:36

to scholarships. And you know why,

37:39

because you can afford to send your kids

37:41

to any school they want to go to. But

37:43

the kids that I really want to help, the ones that actually

37:46

need that opportunity,

37:48

they can't, and I want to make sure

37:50

that parental involvement, parental

37:53

control happens. Another

37:56

example is is in

37:58

terms of taxation, I

38:00

don't believe you should be taxed. I

38:02

don't believe that you're the

38:05

product of your success should be taken

38:07

away from you because you die. So

38:10

it was moved from in the state tax to a death

38:12

tax. This is what you've said, Frank

38:15

on emotion versus rationality

38:17

and facts. And I'm curious because I think

38:19

it's very relevant to this election.

38:22

It's all emotion. But there's nothing wrong

38:24

with emotion when we are in love. We are

38:26

not rational, We are emotional. My

38:28

job is to look for the words that triggered

38:31

the emotion. We know that words and emotion

38:33

together are the most powerful force

38:36

known to mankind. So

38:39

you make no apologies for coming up

38:41

with these trigger words

38:43

if you will that make people feel

38:45

a certain way. By the way,

38:47

Bill Clinton does it. Bill Clinton is the best

38:49

at it. I'm watching him yesterday. This.

38:52

I learned my craft, not

38:54

from New Gingrich Katie.

38:57

I learned my craft from Bill Clinton

39:00

because he better than anyone I've

39:02

ever seen, including Ronald Reagan. When

39:04

he draped his hands over that podium

39:07

and his voice would get like why would his

39:09

voice get like this? You know why,

39:11

because he wants to be emotional. His

39:14

normal voice is this. But no, he gets

39:16

like this because he cares so

39:18

much. And all I'd say

39:20

is, if it's good enough for Bill Clinton, and

39:23

it's good enough for Ronald Reagan, it's

39:25

good enough for America. But on the other

39:27

hand, but there's the word again, but that's

39:31

good. But on the other hand, you know, Clinton lied

39:33

about his affair with Monica Winsky.

39:35

You won the PolitiFact

39:38

Lie of the Year award for describing

39:40

Obamacare as a government takeover.

39:42

So I think the critique of you, and by the way,

39:44

what happened after a year after when it actually

39:46

when it is that a

39:48

number? If you did your Google search,

39:50

you'd see that a number of newspapers wrote that, in

39:52

fact, I was correct,

39:56

six million people lost their coverage.

39:59

That is a government ego of healthcare when

40:01

they actually acknowledge, Well, no, maybe you can't

40:03

necessarily keep your doctor. In

40:05

reality, but that's not what you said. Was all that

40:08

you said it was a government takeover. It's not a government

40:10

takeover. It was a plan that was developed at the Conservative

40:13

Heritage Foundation. Look, once

40:16

again, you are speaking in ways that

40:18

the American people do not feel. They

40:20

cannot afford your coat,

40:22

they cannot afford your shirt.

40:25

Does that give you

40:27

license to manipulate? Manipulate?

40:30

It is the true incite people to think

40:32

things when they're not necessarily So

40:35

you think you think Obamacare is a tremendous success.

40:37

No, do

40:40

you think Obamacare

40:44

eight to ten million people were now insured,

40:47

they would call it a success. I think for the other

40:49

people who lost their insurance or their

40:51

premiums went up, it is not. Yes,

40:53

And I have many friends who have complained

40:55

about that it is not a success.

40:58

So net net, I guess

41:00

it's pretty neutral. Well, it

41:03

depends who you ask. We still have a majority of

41:05

Americans who say that it isn't successful, which

41:07

doesn't happen. Social Security was regarded

41:09

as a success once it got started Medicare,

41:12

but the majority don't want it

41:13

to be so,

41:16

So it's it's a it's a people

41:19

were conflicted about it, and it's not a government

41:21

takeover. That's the question. The government is now

41:23

determining our healthcare. No, they're not.

41:25

The government determined what plans would be offered.

41:28

You know what we should wrap She's about to

41:30

have a stroke. She has because she's listening

41:32

to you and going, wow, that is just not really

41:34

true. Hanging

41:37

there though, I'll hang in there. I'll

41:40

get some more lectures. And by the way, and I'm just

41:43

I'm just enjoying watching the two of you spar

41:45

the two of us. We're not gonna be around when Social Security

41:47

goes belly up, but I'm going to be around.

41:50

Yes, you will be there. You'll have a chance to experience it.

41:53

You know, we we'd love to have you back because actually

41:55

we did want to spend a lot of time talking about

41:57

like, how you got into this crazy business.

42:00

I don't want to be in the son of two Dennists.

42:02

I want to check out your teeth. Oh no, they're

42:04

yellow. But not a single cavity.

42:06

I've never had a single cavity. But I used to throw

42:09

up in my father's chair. I felt so bad for him.

42:11

Really, yes, I I

42:13

don't understand what it is about Jews that we like to

42:15

put our hands in people's mouths.

42:19

Just speak for yourself. There's something

42:21

in our religion that just Jews

42:23

become Dennists. I don't know what it is. So

42:25

you used to vomit? Oh yeah, why

42:27

you're gagging reflex? Yes, and

42:29

so what we finally figured out is when I had

42:31

to go to the dentist, I was not allowed to eat for a

42:33

day. Now, I agree,

42:36

I'm fat today, I'm in shape

42:38

if round is a shape. But when I was a kid, I

42:40

was a rail So my mother was very

42:42

conflicted a Jewish mom. What do we

42:45

do. Do we prevent Frankie from eating

42:47

so he won't get sick in Lester's chair? Or

42:50

do we let him eat because he's so thin that he looks

42:52

like he could just blow away and then

42:54

he gets sick and all the patients have to deal

42:56

with it, so going to the dentist

42:59

is very traumatic. I was a child that's

43:01

going to say, so

43:06

the next episode is going to be frank

43:08

lens no,

43:10

Frankie l Frankie. Oh, my

43:14

father used to do that in public in front

43:16

of al Haig. I met Henry Kissinger

43:18

with my dad and he would always call me Frankie and they

43:20

would look at me. And then I realized

43:23

as I got older that actually the I e

43:25

at the end of the name helps you, because

43:28

you can't really hate someone named Frankie,

43:30

but you can hate someone named frank I

43:36

love hearing from Frank about what people

43:39

are saying, but I am hungry

43:41

for solutions, and I

43:44

don't feel like anyone is talking

43:46

enough about how we improve

43:49

the state of the country. And I

43:51

hope he'll come back when the

43:53

candidates themselves start

43:55

articulating their visions to

43:57

make the country better. Well. One of the things that Frank

44:00

said that really struck me is the voters

44:02

don't care that much about policy

44:04

and solutions. I think he really believes

44:06

that they care about affect

44:09

and personality. And who seems to

44:11

be telling it like it is as

44:13

opposed to who has the ten

44:15

point planned to fix infrastructure?

44:17

And maybe that's not that interesting, But just

44:20

basing your vote on somebody who you

44:23

know is authentic and is channeling

44:25

your anger that scares the bejesuits

44:28

out of me. Yeah. It was always

44:30

funny to me when I would see people in focus

44:32

groups on TV say, oh, well, I don't

44:34

really care what they stand for. I just want to know

44:36

that you know the person is authentic and

44:39

he means what he says. Well,

44:41

policy really matters, and campaign

44:44

promises are the best barometer of what

44:46

presidents are going to do in office. So I think,

44:48

no matter what you believe, we should pay attention to what

44:50

these people are saying in their ads and speeches

44:53

and definitely in the upcoming debates,

44:55

and not just their tweets. I'd

45:00

love to hear what you think. So the big question

45:03

of the show today is do

45:05

you think America is in decline or

45:07

are you optimistic about the future. So

45:10

give us a call at nine to nine to

45:12

four, four six, three seven, leave

45:15

us a voicemail, and as always I

45:17

will be standing by the phone. Poor

45:20

Brian, you need to get a hobby. Meanwhile,

45:22

if you're hungry for more election coverage, you

45:24

can check out my fellow podcaster David

45:27

Gregory. His recent honest

45:29

and in depth interview is with vice presidential

45:32

nominee Tim Kane. His show is

45:34

called The David Gregory Show and you can

45:36

find it on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever

45:38

you get your podcasts. Thanks

45:40

to Gretta Cone and the right Reverend

45:43

John de Lure for producing this show.

45:45

Thanks to Mark Phillips for our theme music,

45:48

and please subscribe, rate and review

45:50

It really helps listeners find the show. So

45:53

we'll talk to you next time, and thanks so much for listening.

45:59

It's good headphones to take these with us, just

46:01

like it will

46:03

be five. But

46:06

here's a great thing. They'll bill you. Yeah, yeah,

46:08

exactly. Hey

46:18

everyone, this is Scott Ackerman of Comedy Bang Bang.

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