42:00

a perfect combination of comfort and

42:02

support. I took the Helix Sleep

42:04

Quiz and I was matched with, as I've said

42:06

before, a Midnight Luxe mattress. I wanted something that

42:08

felt medium firm and I sleep on my side.

42:10

And you know what? My daughter was gonna get

42:12

a Helix mattress, not trying to prejudice her one

42:14

way or the other. I had her take the

42:17

Sleep Quiz. She ended up with a Midnight Luxe

42:19

too, because like father, like daughter, she sleeps on

42:21

her side. Not only is

42:23

that mattress the best anybody in our family

42:25

has slept on, but the setup was fast,

42:27

easy. Helix mattresses are delivered in a box

42:29

right to your door for free. You just

42:31

cut open the wrapping and bang. Suddenly you

42:33

have a giant mattress in your room. Plus

42:35

Helix mattresses all come with a 10 or

42:38

15 year warranty depending on the model. Bonnie

42:40

Barnes sleeps on a Midnight Luxe. So you

42:43

guys have that in common. Don't

42:45

wanna take Adam's word for it

42:47

while I hardly blame you. Helix

42:49

has been awarded the number one

42:52

mattress picked by GQ and Wired

42:54

Magazine. It's even recommended by multiple

42:56

leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep

42:58

medicine as a

43:01

go-to solution for improving your sleep. Helix

43:03

is offering up to 30% off

43:05

all mattress orders and two

43:07

free pillows for our listeners. Go

43:09

to helixsleep.com/Paula. That's helixsleep.com/Paula.

43:12

This is their best

43:14

offer yet. It won't

43:16

last long with Helix.

43:18

Better sleep starts now.

43:21

And if you're gonna try it anyways. Use

43:24

our code. Use our code. And

43:27

we are back. Thank you, Houseman Chris Erickson.

43:31

That sounds fantastic. Thank you Chris. If I didn't

43:33

say it before, what a wonderful set. Thank

43:36

you so much for being here and

43:38

doing this. But Paula, you clearly have

43:40

something else going on in your mind. I

43:43

can tell you've got that preoccupied look on your face. Okay. Well,

43:46

before we go even another step. I'm gonna say

43:48

it again. I'm gonna

43:50

say it again. I'm gonna say it again. I'm gonna say

43:52

it again. I'm gonna say it again. Oh,

43:54

even another step. I just

43:56

wanna say that I am sympathetic. to

44:00

Captain Kringle, Bonnie Burns a little bit,

44:03

because I once saw what turned

44:08

out to be a Max

44:10

Hildeman impersonator, and

44:12

I thought it was Max

44:14

Hildeman. Max Hildeman, I'm

44:16

not sure I know who Max Hildeman is. Well,

44:19

that's why it's so easy to get

44:22

them confused. Okay. Yeah, so I'm

44:24

just, I just, All right, that's fair. I just, I

44:26

wanna reach that olive branch to Bonnie

44:28

Burns, who didn't just take us on a bizarre

44:30

journey for nothing, but rather,

44:32

yeah, I understand it can happen. Adam,

44:36

as we've talked about many times,

44:39

I wanna do whatever I can to keep

44:41

our government out of the hands of candidates

44:43

who would take away our right to vote,

44:46

not to mention other rights.

44:48

So of course I'm voting for

44:51

Democrats. I also

44:53

make campaign contributions. I

44:55

give some to Vote Save America, the

44:58

organization that John Lovett from Pod Save

45:00

America told us about that gives money

45:02

and support to campaigns around the country

45:04

where it helps the most. I also

45:06

give to individual campaigns of my

45:09

own choosing around the country, but I know

45:11

there are limits. I just don't

45:13

know what they are. You

45:15

know, I ran for class president in the

45:17

sixth grade, and we couldn't take contributions. I

45:19

had to pay for my own poster board.

45:22

It was a different time. I didn't

45:24

know about campaign finance laws back then.

45:26

I didn't need to. I

45:28

could sure use some help now though.

45:30

I know nothing about it. There are experts,

45:33

people who do know, people filled

45:35

with knowledge on the subject, brimming with

45:37

knowledge, I would say, but I have

45:39

no way of talking about that. Certainly

45:42

not on this squid pro quo of

45:45

a podcast. Well, Paula, if you

45:47

just, again, I'm sorry if I'm angry, but

45:50

like you could text me, you could call me,

45:52

you could email me and I'll book the guest

45:54

that you want because you

45:56

didn't, I book Jean-Pierre crouton. The grand-

45:58

of the man who first thought about

46:01

putting stale bread and salad. Wow.

46:04

Well, that'll be, you

46:06

know, that'll be an interesting conversation. Yeah. I

46:08

mean, he'll be great. He'll be great. But oh, no, no,

46:10

no, no, no, no, no, Paula, you're in luck. Once

46:12

again, I'm wrong. That's next week.

46:15

Our guest today is the very expert you seek.

46:17

Well, that's a coincidence, heated with

46:20

the foil over the dessert peeled

46:22

back. You said

46:24

it. That's what I was

46:26

thinking. He is the director

46:28

for Federal Campaign Finance Reform

46:30

at Campaign Legal Center, a

46:33

nonpartisan organization based in Washington,

46:35

D.C. that's working to advance

46:37

democracy through law. There he

46:39

leads the organization's efforts to

46:42

uncover campaign finance violations and

46:44

advocate for more robust campaign

46:46

finance laws. Please welcome Sarav

46:48

Ghosh. Hello. Welcome, Sarav. Thanks

46:50

for having me. Oh, thank

46:53

you so much for being

46:55

here. I know nothing on

46:57

this topic. Honestly, I just when I

46:59

do write a check and yes, I

47:01

still use checks when I

47:03

do write a check, I just sort of

47:05

cross my fingers and hope I'm not doing

47:08

anything wrong. Now, I don't have enough money

47:10

to do a lot wrong. But

47:13

I really have no idea how much I can

47:15

donate to a kid. I think you're sort of

47:17

like recycling. I'm not sure it really gets taken

47:19

care of on the other end. But, you know,

47:21

I've done my part just by throwing it in

47:23

the bin. Is

47:25

it different in different states? Sure.

47:30

So if we're talking about federal

47:32

candidates, you know, people who are

47:34

running for Congress, the House of

47:37

Representatives, or the Senate, and

47:39

certainly in the presidential race, then

47:42

it's not going to matter. State to

47:45

state the limits are the same. And

47:48

in the current election, it's $3,300 per

47:50

election, which basically

47:55

means for the primaries up to $3,300 and

47:57

for the general election. Because

52:00

for decades and decades, corporations

52:03

have not been allowed to

52:06

either give money in any form or

52:08

spend money on their own to

52:10

influence elections. And Citizens United changed that

52:13

overnight. So I still don't know

52:15

what a super PAC is. Is it a corporation? No.

52:19

So that's kind of a step in the path

52:21

that led to super PACS. So I won't

52:24

go into all the legal details,

52:26

but there was a follow-up case

52:28

in the DC appellate court that

52:31

said, if you're only raising money

52:33

to do

52:36

this independent spending, then

52:38

you can create an organization that

52:41

is able to raise as

52:43

much money without limits, and

52:46

it can raise money from corporations. And

52:49

so that was basically the skeletal

52:51

structure of a super PAC. And that's pretty

52:53

much what they're still doing to this day.

52:57

They can raise money from

52:59

corporations, from super wealthy

53:01

people to give as much as they want.

53:04

And the only conditions are that that

53:06

spending cannot be coordinated with any

53:08

candidates or political parties, and that it has

53:10

to be open to these goals. And the

53:12

reason I keep mentioning those two things is

53:14

that that is really where

53:17

I do my work, is that both

53:19

of those conditions are actually not being

53:21

met. So let me

53:23

just clarify, get to, and

53:25

we'll get to how these things are not

53:28

being met. If Hula Poundstone wants Adam Schiff

53:30

to become the senator from California, she can

53:32

donate $3,300 to him in the

53:34

primary, $3,300 to him in the general election, and

53:36

she can use all the

53:42

millions of dollars that she earns from

53:44

this podcast and give that all to

53:46

a pro Adam Schiff super PAC.

53:49

And there's no problem with that.

53:51

Legally that's not problematic, and that

53:54

is happening every election, every

53:56

election. Okay, so the millions that are

53:58

making from this podcast... And thank you

54:01

again for doing it for free. The millions

54:03

that I'm making from this podcast that

54:06

I'm now donating to a Super PAC that

54:09

is in support of Adam Schiff, but

54:13

is not a part of his campaign. Am I correct

54:15

about that? That's correct.

54:18

And he's legally prohibited from coordinating

54:20

with that Super PAC and how

54:23

it's spending its money. Aha! Is

54:26

that what you do? The coordination you

54:28

find people colluding with their own Super

54:30

PACs and drag them off

54:32

to jail, kicking and screaming? Well, everything

54:35

but the last part. At CLC,

54:37

we identify situations where someone appears

54:39

to be coordinating with a Super

54:41

PAC. And unfortunately, although

54:43

we typically report that to the

54:46

FEC, the agency I used to

54:48

work at, the sad

54:50

thing is that the FEC isn't enforcing that

54:52

prohibition. They're not enforcing the law. Wow! So

54:55

it's pretty bad because the Supreme

54:57

Court said, well, this spending

55:00

is independent, so it's not going to corrupt anybody. No

55:02

candidate is going to be beholden to corporations

55:05

or wealthy donors because it's independent,

55:07

right? And the reality

55:10

is in the 14 years since they said that, that

55:12

independence has been a total joke. So

55:15

when, for example, allegedly,

55:19

Trump met with the heads

55:21

of the oil companies and

55:23

said, if you give me a billion or whatever it

55:25

was, I will

55:27

make decisions in favor of oil.

55:31

How would they get those billions to him

55:33

or that billion? I

55:35

know it started with a B, whether it was with

55:38

an S on the end or not, I'm not certain.

55:40

How would they get that money to him? Well,

55:43

I mean, they clearly couldn't give it to his

55:45

campaign. That's obvious. The

55:47

campaign can only take a minuscule

55:50

amount, which was the

55:52

point of the law that's restricted how much

55:54

you could give. So they're talking

55:57

about super facts. They're talking about... outside

56:00

groups. They could also be talking about what

56:03

are, you know, affectionately known as dark money

56:05

groups. And I think

56:07

it's important that we also know, you

56:10

know, super PACs are at least disclosing

56:12

where they're getting their money from. And

56:16

so they're raising as much as they want and

56:18

all but they're, they're, they're

56:20

required to report that dark

56:22

money groups don't, they would have somewhere in

56:24

a ledger that they got, you know, millions

56:26

from nobody listens to Paula Pounce on the

56:29

comedy podcast, that would have to be written

56:31

down. So what is a dark money group?

56:33

Well, not just a ledger, like they're keeping

56:35

track, they have to report that to the

56:37

FEC. So yeah, you or you or I

56:39

or anybody who wanted to know could go

56:42

and see that. But dark

56:44

money group is a type of nonprofit,

56:46

they claim, you know, nonprofit

56:48

status under the tax code. And

56:50

because of that, they actually aren't

56:52

required to report their donors. Wow.

56:56

But by the same token, they

56:59

are allowed to spend money on elections.

57:01

They are. Does that mean like a

57:03

church? Not a church. These are typically

57:06

organizations that are tax exempt under 501

57:08

c four for, you know, social welfare

57:10

is there like

57:14

our podcast. Sure.

57:17

You know, there there's all kinds of 501 c fours. Many

57:19

of them do actual

57:22

social welfare, welfare work. The ones

57:24

that I focus on are basically

57:26

exploiting the tax code

57:28

to say, you know, we are

57:30

on a mission to improve society.

57:32

But actually, what we see is

57:34

that they're spending millions of dollars

57:37

on, you know, attack ads that say, you know,

57:39

don't vote for so and so, you know, in

57:41

my view, and again, the view of many reformers,

57:45

is again, undermining the basic

57:47

idea of Citizens

57:49

United that, you know, all of this

57:52

spending has to be disclosed. So could

57:54

I ostensibly if I wanted Adam Schiff

57:57

to be the senator from

57:59

California? start a charity to

58:01

help puppies with dyslexia. And

58:04

I don't think there's anything

58:06

sadder. And use my money

58:08

to make ads that say,

58:11

Adam Schiff is great and

58:13

whoever is imposing him is

58:15

awful. And then show a

58:17

picture of a puppy who

58:19

clearly can't read left

58:21

to right. Yeah, they keep

58:23

yelling, Fra, Fra, Fra. Yeah.

58:26

And when you go to call them, you

58:28

have to go, come here, God, come here,

58:31

God. Yeah, something close to that, I think.

58:33

So charities aren't allowed to spend on elections.

58:35

Charities being charitable causes

58:37

that actually, the donations to

58:39

them are taxing them. Donations

58:41

to C4s are

58:44

a little different. But

58:46

yeah, pretty close. Well, give me an example.

58:48

So if you were to form a group

58:51

that's like, I wanna lobby, I wanna advocate

58:53

for improving economic conditions in America. Like there

58:55

are a lot of these groups that, their

58:58

mission statement on their tax form is like,

59:01

we are a group of concerned citizens

59:03

that wanna improve economic conditions. Concerned citizens

59:06

for prosperity. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in

59:08

fact, one of the best known dark

59:10

money groups is called Americans for Prosperity.

59:13

Oh, wow. It's actually a

59:15

front for the Koch brothers, but

59:17

that's their name is Americans for

59:19

Prosperity. Well, they're American and they

59:21

are for prosperity. Bingo, bingo. So

59:24

yeah, so I mean, they can

59:26

claim that and they can spend money

59:28

on ads that say, Adam Schiff is

59:31

bad for our economy and Adam

59:33

Schiff would be a terrible

59:35

Senator from California or the opposite, right? That

59:38

he'd be amazing. And that would be

59:40

allowed. And I think the real problem

59:43

is that they would never have to

59:45

disclose that they got their money from

59:47

All Found Stone or the podcast. And

59:49

so the typical, the voter

59:51

in California who's like, man, those Adam

59:53

Schiff ads were really convincing. They're

59:56

not gonna know who paid for them. All right,

59:58

I think we should find. presents

1:02:00

The Anime Effect. We

1:02:02

are a new show breaking down the anime news, views,

1:02:05

and shows you care about each and every week. I

1:02:07

can't think of a better studio to bring something like

1:02:09

this to life. Yeah, I agree. We're covering all the

1:02:11

classics. If I don't know a lot about Godzilla, which

1:02:13

I do, but I'm trying to pretend that I don't.

1:02:16

Hold it in, hold on. And our

1:02:18

current faves, Luffy must have his

1:02:20

due. Tune in

1:02:22

every week for the latest anime updates and

1:02:24

possibly a few debates. I

1:02:27

remember, what was that? See

1:02:29

what you're gonna say and I'll circle back. You

1:02:32

can listen to Crunchyroll Presents, The Anime

1:02:34

Effect, every Friday, wherever you get your

1:02:36

podcasts and watch full video episodes on

1:02:38

Crunchyroll or the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. ["Crunchie

1:02:47

Roll"] Fun

1:02:53

fact, most praying mantises

1:02:55

are in fact atheists. ["Crunchie

1:02:58

Roll"] And

1:03:09

we are back with Sarav Ghosh.

1:03:11

We are talking campaign finance law,

1:03:14

getting very, very, very depressed about it.

1:03:17

Can I bring up a name? Well,

1:03:20

that's fun. What happened to

1:03:22

McCain Feingold? Famously, is that

1:03:25

what Citizens United struck down? Famously, that was a piece

1:03:27

of legislation in the early part of the 21st century

1:03:30

that was supposed to get rid of

1:03:32

a lot of these campaign finance questions. And

1:03:34

we were all so optimistic

1:03:36

about it because a Republican and a Democrat

1:03:39

worked together, put their names on it and

1:03:41

made it into law. What happened? We

1:03:43

got rid of McCain and Feingold. One

1:03:48

thing that happened. You know, the

1:03:50

aspirations were just as high in

1:03:52

the official title, which was the

1:03:55

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, which

1:03:57

sounds like everything we need.

1:04:00

again today. Sure. Yeah,

1:04:02

but if they want something to pass, they

1:04:04

have to throw the word family in no

1:04:06

matter what the topic is. So

1:04:09

the family bipartisan campaign

1:04:11

finance reform law, that would

1:04:14

work. I

1:04:16

completely agree. And we can throw in for

1:04:18

American prosperity just to really. Yeah.

1:04:21

Yeah. So

1:04:24

David, that was a great law. It

1:04:26

was the last really major congressional reform

1:04:28

effort. But that was in 2002. And

1:04:31

what that did is it foreclosed soft

1:04:34

money. So soft money wasn't

1:04:36

is money that doesn't

1:04:38

comply with federal requirements.

1:04:41

It had been common practice for

1:04:43

years. And it was the reason

1:04:45

why they did this law that

1:04:48

these non-federal, these state organizations, 527s

1:04:50

would be raising and spending a ton of

1:04:52

money. Federal candidates would be helping

1:04:55

that process. They

1:04:57

were just major loophole in

1:05:00

the campaign finance framework. So

1:05:03

McCain and Feingold closed that loophole.

1:05:06

But roughly seven, eight years

1:05:08

after that, Citizens United happened

1:05:10

and in some ways blew

1:05:12

open a whole new loophole,

1:05:14

which as we have been

1:05:16

talking about, it's

1:05:18

the Wild West out there in a lot of ways. It's

1:05:22

so frustrating about this that we

1:05:24

take this amount of money. And

1:05:26

now the campaigns never stop anyways. Even

1:05:29

if your candidate gets elected, then you

1:05:31

start receiving these emails that say that

1:05:34

now they're in debt and could you

1:05:36

help pay off the debt? And

1:05:39

then I don't know, like even if

1:05:41

a senator is only get elected every

1:05:43

six years, but there is just no

1:05:45

end to the campaign at all. And

1:05:47

what's frustrating about the money thing is

1:05:49

because yes, I'm happy to

1:05:52

put up the little bit

1:05:54

of money that I can for candidates that

1:05:56

I feel strongly about. But say, for example,

1:05:58

I feel very strongly about it. if

1:08:00

they're a representative, right? It should just simply

1:08:03

be their district and not, you know,

1:08:05

not one way there. Okay, so when

1:08:07

I was in high school, we

1:08:09

used to have this program where they took you

1:08:11

out in the woods, they gave you

1:08:13

a piece of plastic, a string,

1:08:15

some matches, and I don't know, one or

1:08:18

two other things. And,

1:08:20

you know- I think this was just

1:08:22

your teachers trying to get rid of you, Paul.

1:08:24

Well, when having me sit in the hallway didn't

1:08:26

work, this was the next step. But my point

1:08:28

is, we all received the same plastic, we all

1:08:30

received the same string, we all received the same

1:08:32

matches, we all- right, and we went out and

1:08:34

we made do with it the best we could,

1:08:37

you know, and quote unquote, you know, survived for

1:08:39

a couple of days, right? Oh, and a bag

1:08:41

of rice, I think, maybe in a pan. So

1:08:44

given that once you're

1:08:46

in office, you have to work within

1:08:48

a budget, right? Why don't we just

1:08:50

finance, give everybody a certain amount of

1:08:53

money, and that's what

1:08:55

you got, and, you know, and let

1:08:57

the chips fall where they may, and

1:08:59

you can't receive any kind of outside

1:09:01

money or donations. Doesn't that make sense?

1:09:03

Well, I mean, if you were to

1:09:05

sort of design a campaign finance system

1:09:07

from the ground up, that might make

1:09:09

a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the reality

1:09:11

is our system is, if

1:09:13

it's definitely moving in the other direction,

1:09:15

you know, more and more money is

1:09:18

being spent on elections every election cycle.

1:09:20

I think it's easy to look at

1:09:22

the trends since citizens united and say,

1:09:24

you know, there may be no end

1:09:27

in sight. We

1:09:29

just see more and more being

1:09:31

spent. And so, you know, the

1:09:33

catering to the wealthy donors is

1:09:36

just part of our political process. And I think that

1:09:38

gets back to what you were saying a minute ago.

1:09:41

Why can't we just spend money on

1:09:43

the issues we care about? Well, part

1:09:45

of the reason we can't is because

1:09:47

corporations and lobbyists are pouring more money

1:09:50

or facilitating, you know, more and more

1:09:52

money being poured into these elections. So,

1:09:54

you know, if you don't play that

1:09:56

game, that power of who's at the

1:09:58

table is really driven. being

1:14:00

proposed. What can we win? What

1:14:02

can we win? Well, you know,

1:14:04

I think one of the clearest

1:14:06

battles that can and should be

1:14:08

won is this transparency issue. So,

1:14:11

I mean, again, the

1:14:13

listeners can't see your faces, but both of

1:14:15

you look pretty startled when I was talking

1:14:17

about dark money groups. There's a bill in

1:14:20

Congress that would require

1:14:23

any such entities that are spending

1:14:25

more than ten thousand dollars on

1:14:27

elections to disclose,

1:14:31

as the name suggests, where they're

1:14:33

getting money from. It's a

1:14:35

bill that Senator Sheldon Whitehouse from Rhode

1:14:37

Island has proposed for every Congress for

1:14:39

who knows how long. And

1:14:41

it's a terrific bill. CLC has endorsed it.

1:14:45

It would definitely solve

1:14:48

the dark money problem as it currently

1:14:50

exists. We know, you know, they'll get

1:14:52

creative. Maybe they'll find other ways. But

1:14:55

the biggest problem in campaign finance

1:14:57

today, in my view, could be

1:14:59

solved with that bill. That's

1:15:01

the one we're monitoring from our

1:15:03

multi-million dollar podcast. Sarav, that was

1:15:06

excellent. He is the director for federal

1:15:08

campaign finance reform at Campaign Legal Center,

1:15:11

what I call the CLC. Sarav

1:15:14

Ghosh, everybody. Thank you so much.

1:15:17

Thank you so much. This has

1:15:19

been a lot of fun. Coming up now

1:15:21

that we've watered the tree of liberty,

1:15:23

what else can we do to fuck

1:15:25

with the plant kingdom? How about Garden

1:15:28

Time with Captain Crinkle? That's when we

1:15:30

come back. And

1:15:38

now a news update from the dental chair.

1:15:41

We here at the schools have

1:15:44

to put out the 10 parents.

1:15:50

This has been a news update from the

1:15:52

dental chair. Go

1:18:00

to polypoundstone.com to get your tickets. Or,

1:18:03

perhaps, when I'm in Huntington,

1:18:05

New York at the Paramount

1:18:08

Huntington on Friday, August 9th.

1:18:10

Listeners should go to

1:18:12

polypoundstone.com to get their tickets. Or,

1:18:16

equally possibly, when I'm in

1:18:19

Provincetown, Massachusetts at Town Hall

1:18:21

on Saturday, August 10th. Listeners

1:18:24

can get tickets at polypoundstone.com.

1:18:26

Catch some jumping jokes. Oh,

1:18:29

that'll be fun. And Provincetown, P-town, as I like

1:18:31

to call it, that's a great place, too. It

1:18:33

is a great place, yeah. You can be my

1:18:35

old stomping ground of Huntington, New York on Long

1:18:37

Island, and I encourage all my old high school

1:18:39

friends to go see Paula there. And P-town, you

1:18:42

could catch a whale watch from there, Paula. Yeah,

1:18:45

you know, my kids used to go,

1:18:47

I think it was the third grade they

1:18:49

used to take out on a whale watching

1:18:51

trip each school

1:18:54

year. And even

1:18:56

the kids came to call it the

1:18:59

water watching trip because they never saw

1:19:01

whales. Oh, wow, I've been on one

1:19:03

whale watch out of Provincetown and I

1:19:06

saw a bunch of humpbacks. No, but

1:19:08

this was California. My children went to

1:19:10

school in California. They

1:19:13

shouldn't have done that. If they wanted to see whales,

1:19:15

they should have been on the East Coast. Yeah, well,

1:19:17

you know, didn't occur to me,

1:19:19

but okay. Next time. Live and learn, live

1:19:21

and learn, next time. Hey, speaking of next

1:19:24

time, we all knew this was gonna happen

1:19:26

at some point or another because with Summer

1:19:28

here, you know that. And

1:19:31

there's only one person on this show

1:19:33

qualified to kill him. It's time for

1:19:36

Garden Time with Captain Kringle. I

1:19:39

thought when you said there's only one person on

1:19:41

this show, I thought for sure you were gonna

1:19:43

say Max Hildeman. Yeah, no, no, no,

1:19:45

just a Max Hildeman look. I just wanna say,

1:19:47

I've looked at that picture that Bonnie sent me

1:19:50

and Tony's right. That profile doesn't

1:19:52

look anything like that. Oh my

1:19:54

God, it looks exactly like him. No.

1:19:57

No, because Rod Stewart had that kind of like

1:19:59

big prominent England. Oh my god, he made his

1:20:01

living. This guy looks like he was

1:20:03

squashed. In Britain they call it

1:20:05

a copy. That he's a copy of Rod Stewart. I

1:20:08

mean, that's not a copy of Rod Stewart.

1:20:10

He's not a copy of Rod Stewart. Yeah,

1:20:12

that's Rod Stewart's nose. That's Rod Stewart.

1:20:16

This is the nose of the guy. That's

1:20:18

barely an Elton John nose.

1:20:20

Do you think that we have shown enough stuff that

1:20:22

there are no bodies? Can't

1:20:26

see. This would be good for Patreon though. You

1:20:28

could take this little clip and... Okay,

1:20:30

on Patreon. You know what? We're going to be recording

1:20:32

a little thing for Patreon later. So Patreon people, jump

1:20:35

on over to that page. Because as a bonus to

1:20:37

the thing we're going to announce on Patreon, we're also

1:20:39

going to show you a couple of noses and see

1:20:41

what you think about what has just gone down. We're

1:20:44

going to show you the noses of people

1:20:46

who are not rock stars. And

1:20:50

by the way, if you haven't found a

1:20:52

great reason to subscribe to our Patreon account,

1:20:54

which is fun and and bumpchas and just

1:20:56

a ball for everybody, seeing

1:20:59

the nose of somebody who's not Rod

1:21:01

Stewart has got to be the ultimate

1:21:03

enticement. So go over to

1:21:05

patreon.com, look for Nobody Listens to Ball of

1:21:07

Poundstone, and hook us up everybody. We're having

1:21:10

a great time over there. I

1:21:12

almost feel bad, you know, for those who

1:21:14

choose not to join Patreon. And that's, you

1:21:16

know, that's fine. You can just listen to

1:21:18

the podcast. That's great. It would

1:21:20

be wonderful if you told your friends about the podcast.

1:21:22

That's an awkward conversation. As

1:21:25

we know, not always easy to have.

1:21:29

I feel a little bit bad not

1:21:31

making the nose of people

1:21:33

who are not rock stars available to

1:21:36

everyone. Well, you know

1:21:38

what, you can feel bad, but there's

1:21:40

a reason why that's a premium service.

1:21:42

Meanwhile, we are giving plenty of value

1:21:44

because it's time for garden

1:21:46

time with Captain Kringle. I'm

1:21:49

a little seed. I need

1:21:51

lots of sun. Feeds my growing

1:21:53

body. Warms me up. And

1:21:56

now it's garden time with Captain

1:21:58

Kringle. Captain Kringle. ["Grow,

1:22:02

Grow, Grow!" song plays in

1:22:04

the background.] Bonnie

1:22:11

Burns, Captain Kringle, you've been out

1:22:13

there in your garden toiling day

1:22:15

and night, coming up with

1:22:17

handy tips for all the green-thumbed nobodies

1:22:19

out there. What you got for us

1:22:22

this week? Hi, gardeners, and

1:22:24

welcome to the show. I'm so glad

1:22:26

you're joining us today. Here's

1:22:29

a little fun fact. If you've been

1:22:31

craving fruits and vegetables that are green

1:22:33

or orange, you know the

1:22:36

colors of vegetables correlate to the needs

1:22:38

in our bodies. So if you've been

1:22:40

craving orange or green vegetables, you could

1:22:42

be low on potassium. Do

1:22:45

oranges have potassium? No.

1:22:48

I thought potassium came in bananas. Well,

1:22:51

it comes in cantaloupe, like

1:22:53

cantaloupe cucumbers. Uh-uh. Yeah.

1:22:55

Okay. Okay. Great.

1:22:58

Do you have carrots and potassium? I

1:23:01

don't know. Okay.

1:23:04

This is a fun fact, but not a

1:23:06

very deep one. Okay. And

1:23:08

now on to another part of Mother Nature.

1:23:11

It's gardeners, we should appreciate all of

1:23:13

what Mother Nature has to offer. So

1:23:16

today, I'm going to talk about Bart

1:23:18

the Bear. What? Okay,

1:23:20

is it really Bart the Bear, or is

1:23:22

it a Bart the Bear lookalike that

1:23:25

you saw at the hairdresser? Look at that

1:23:27

muzzle. That looks nothing like Bart the Bear.

1:23:29

Yeah. Look at those

1:23:31

age spots on Bart the Bear. Okay. All

1:23:34

right. I'll bite, Captain. Who's Bart the Bear?

1:23:36

Bart the Bear died in 2000, but his

1:23:38

legacy will live on forever. He

1:23:40

was a male Kodiak bear best

1:23:42

known for his numerous appearances in

1:23:45

films, including The Bear, for which

1:23:47

he received widespread acclaim, White Fang,

1:23:49

Legends of the Fall, and The

1:23:51

Edge. Here's what he sounded like.

1:24:00

Ahhh! I

1:24:04

can't believe it.

1:24:08

Bart the bear is scary. R.I.P.

1:24:10

Bart the bear who sounded terrifying.

1:24:12

Alright. Where are you going with

1:24:14

this captain? Here's what's

1:24:16

so amazing about Bart the Bear,

1:24:18

okay? He was an uncanny actor.

1:24:21

He could run on cue, jump on

1:24:23

cue, and not just like jump. Wait,

1:24:25

do you grow him in a garden?

1:24:27

Did I miss something? He

1:24:29

could jump up in the air, okay?

1:24:31

He could hug, he could hug actors.

1:24:33

There's footage out on YouTube that shows

1:24:36

him sitting next to his trainer on

1:24:38

a log and he actually puts his

1:24:40

arm around the trainer like they're just

1:24:43

sitting there like pals and then kisses

1:24:45

him, okay? Isn't that the trainer that

1:24:47

was recently killed? No. Bart

1:24:50

the bear is outstanding. So.

1:24:53

Was outstanding. He

1:24:56

also could, like at the edge, he actually

1:24:58

picked up Anthony Hopkins

1:25:00

and threw him over

1:25:02

a hill. Oh, I read about that.

1:25:04

That was a stunt bear. No, it

1:25:06

was a stunt bear. They never used

1:25:08

a stunt bear. They always used Bart

1:25:10

the bear. He was considered the John

1:25:12

Wayne of bears. Okay, but

1:25:15

let, okay, back up a second. That sounds like

1:25:17

so extraordinary. It was a bear. He picked up

1:25:19

Anthony Hopkins and he threw him. You

1:25:21

know, Anthony Hopkins can be so annoying. Who

1:25:24

among us hasn't picked up Anthony Hopkins and

1:25:26

whipped him over a hill somewhere at one

1:25:28

time or another? I don't think that. I

1:25:30

gotta confess, in 2013 I did exactly that.

1:25:33

Yeah, I did it. I don't see how

1:25:35

that said Bart the bear apart from really

1:25:37

any of us. Well,

1:25:40

Bonnie did that once, but it turned out not

1:25:42

to be Anthony Hopkins. It

1:25:44

was a summer squash. It was

1:25:46

Anthony Hopkins lookalike. Remember

1:25:49

when they had that contest where you

1:25:51

grew summer squash to look like Anthony

1:25:53

Hopkins and. Yes. And there was no

1:25:56

winner declared because it turns out all summer

1:25:58

squash looks a lot like Anthony Hopkins. Anthony

1:26:00

Hopkins. Yeah. And they bought the shit out

1:26:02

of you. A lot of people have inadvertently thrown summer

1:26:05

squash over the hill. I bet Bart the

1:26:07

Bear did that a few times. Bonnie, continue

1:26:09

with your helpful gardening tips. Speaking

1:26:12

of Anthony Hopkins, Anthony Hopkins starred in

1:26:14

two movies with Bart the Bear. Of

1:26:16

course he did. And what he said

1:26:19

about the Bear story, and the Bart the Bear

1:26:21

story sequel, Bart the Bear 2. You

1:26:23

might be confusing Bart the Bear with Buffalo Bill,

1:26:25

but go on. No, I'm not, okay? Well,

1:26:28

Bart the Bear started with like

1:26:31

Robert Redford, Morgan Freeman, Darryl Hannah,

1:26:33

Brad Pitt. Like he did over

1:26:35

more than 20 movies. Darryl

1:26:38

Hannah will not do a film without Bart

1:26:40

the Bear. In fact, now that Bart the

1:26:42

Bear is dead, Darryl

1:26:44

Hannah. That's why you don't see Darryl Hannah anymore. Yeah,

1:26:47

remember that time she climbed up a tree and wouldn't

1:26:49

come down because she was trying to save the tree.

1:26:51

Do you remember that? Yeah.

1:26:54

What no one direction was. I was the one who got her

1:26:56

down. What? Wow. I threw Anthony

1:26:58

Hopkins at her. What

1:27:00

nobody ever talks about is that Bart

1:27:03

the Bear was already up in that tree.

1:27:05

So she went, they're very close. So this

1:27:07

is a difficult time. I

1:27:09

know that Darryl Hannah does listen to our podcast. I

1:27:11

just want to say, we're sorry for

1:27:13

your loss Darryl Hannah about Bart the Bear. We'll

1:27:16

not do a film without him. Did

1:27:18

you ever see that movie Legal Eagles and

1:27:20

Bart the Bear? Or did you see Splash

1:27:22

with Bart the Bear? Or did you

1:27:24

see? Roxanne and Bart.

1:27:28

Clan of the Cave, Bart the Bear. Did you

1:27:30

see that? Cause Darryl

1:27:32

Hannah will not do a film without Bart the Bear.

1:27:34

There's the end of Darryl Hannah's career. Who could blame

1:27:37

her? Yeah. Still Magnolias with Bart the

1:27:39

Bear. I'm sorry, Captain

1:27:41

Crinkle, more gardening tips. All right. So

1:27:44

all these great actors that were in movies with

1:27:46

Bart the Bear could not believe how well trained

1:27:49

he was and how docile he was. Anthony

1:27:52

Hopkins treated him like he was

1:27:54

another actor. He treated him with

1:27:56

respect. He would spend hours sometimes

1:27:59

sitting on. the set just staring

1:28:01

at part the bear. That's respectful. And

1:28:04

that doesn't, okay. He's batting with

1:28:06

someone. All right, but you're a

1:28:08

Bart the Bear. You're in a salon. You're

1:28:11

just trying to get your hair done. And

1:28:13

somebody's staring at you. Staring at you. So,

1:28:15

you know, I remember that famous Anthony Hopkins

1:28:17

quote when Bart the Bear walked into the

1:28:19

room, sorry for the double take, I just

1:28:22

couldn't help it. And Bart the

1:28:24

Bear was like, well that's okay. And I remember the famous Bart

1:28:26

the Bear quote, which was like, take a picture, it'll last longer.

1:28:28

Yeah. Okay. And then Bart

1:28:30

the Bear went into the bathroom and

1:28:32

no one heard the toilet flush afterwards.

1:28:35

That's all I'm gonna say. Okay,

1:28:37

so Anthony

1:28:39

Hopkins was so confident around Bart the

1:28:42

Bear that he did almost all the

1:28:44

scenes with them in the movies. He

1:28:47

didn't use a stunt double. Now that's

1:28:49

impressive. And Bart the Bear could

1:28:51

like jump on people and act like he

1:28:53

was attacking them and kind of seemed like

1:28:55

he was clawing their face. And

1:28:58

he did it as an actor. He knew

1:29:00

how to do that without hurting them. Yeah,

1:29:02

but the tragedy is that Bart the Bear

1:29:04

actually had great range and yet in every

1:29:06

movie was cast as a bear. Yeah, yeah,

1:29:09

that was, you know, his- It

1:29:12

was typecasting, typecasting. Bart the

1:29:14

Bear's dream role was the Easter Bunny

1:29:16

and they would not let him do

1:29:18

it. That was something. No, and he

1:29:20

produced it. He produced the movie and they wouldn't let

1:29:23

him play the bunny. Yeah, when he, he

1:29:25

auditioned for the role and they said we're

1:29:27

going in, because he did like, he did

1:29:29

the Easter Bunny cold. He was really good

1:29:31

at it. But they said to him, we're

1:29:33

going in a different direction with the Easter

1:29:35

Bunny. And yeah, that

1:29:37

was- They hired a bunny, which was a

1:29:39

vastly inferior actor. Bart the Bear may have

1:29:42

died of a broken heart because that really-

1:29:44

He really might have. He felt like his

1:29:46

goal- You know what it is Paula? It's

1:29:48

that damn political correctness now where you have

1:29:50

to have a bunny play a bunny. Oh,

1:29:52

yeah. It's just not fair. I mean, because

1:29:54

Bart the Bear was a movie star. He

1:29:56

would have made that movie successful. Exactly.

1:29:58

It's the- Jonathan Price

1:30:01

story with the Vietnam play all

1:30:04

over again. Over again. All

1:30:07

right, I'm sorry, Bonnie, go ahead with your gardening tips. No, no, no, no, no, no,

1:30:09

no, that's okay. All right,

1:30:11

well, hey, that's a quote

1:30:14

from not Rod Stewart. Yeah,

1:30:16

you're right. Okay,

1:30:21

all right, here's just part of what

1:30:23

else amazing about Bart the Bear, it's

1:30:25

what a great actor he was. He

1:30:27

would get into like compose himself before

1:30:29

a take. He would know like when

1:30:31

the guy goes scene number, blah, blah,

1:30:34

blah and does the slate, Bart the

1:30:36

Bear would actually like compose himself and

1:30:38

get ready to act. I'm

1:30:40

sure gardening's coming into this in some moment.

1:30:43

You know, a lot of times when

1:30:45

we have pets, animals, we,

1:30:48

I mean, it's a thing. Everybody likes

1:30:50

to say what the animal is thinking.

1:30:53

Me and Wendell, you know, Wendell often think something

1:30:55

quite different than what I think the animal is

1:30:57

thinking in our house. Everybody

1:31:01

likes to say what the animal is thinking.

1:31:03

My guess is that Bart the Bear is

1:31:05

not thinking, oh yes, this is scene 12,

1:31:07

hold on while I prepare. He was, I

1:31:09

saw it. How do you know? What do

1:31:11

you mean you saw it? You can see

1:31:13

his body like this. You can see him

1:31:16

change, like pull it together. Yeah,

1:31:18

my guess is, you know, he's thinking,

1:31:20

my gosh, there's bugs on

1:31:22

my head, I must scratch now. It's

1:31:25

possible. No, it's not

1:31:27

possible. It's not possibly possible.

1:31:29

It is possible. He was

1:31:32

unbelievable. Okay. It

1:31:34

is possible. It is not possible that

1:31:36

Bart the Bear, here's the ghost, scene

1:31:38

32 takes two. It

1:31:41

is not possible. He

1:31:43

was like human. Okay, here's,

1:31:46

he was born on January 19th, 1977

1:31:50

at the Baltimore Zoo. After reaching

1:31:52

adulthood, he made his film debut in

1:31:55

the film Windwalker. That was in 1981.

1:31:58

He grew to nine feet, seven feet. 7.5

1:32:01

inches tall. What kind of bear was

1:32:03

he? What? Kodiak

1:32:05

bear. A Kodiak bear. He

1:32:07

grew to

1:32:11

9 feet 7 and a half inches

1:32:13

tall and he weighed 1500 pounds

1:32:15

throughout his life as an adult.

1:32:17

Well, that's great. Well, I just

1:32:19

say the same. It's not

1:32:22

really going to help me plant these

1:32:24

snow peas, but it's good. Okay, okay.

1:32:26

All right. One of his movies, The Bear,

1:32:29

was a hit in both Europe. Not to

1:32:31

be confused with the Hulu series, The Bear.

1:32:33

Yeah, right. One of his movies, The

1:32:36

Bear, was a hit in both Europe

1:32:38

and the United States, grossing over 31

1:32:40

million in the United States and over

1:32:42

100 million worldwide.

1:32:45

He was nominated for an Oscar

1:32:47

in the... In what category?

1:32:50

I'm going to tell you. He was

1:32:52

nominated for an Oscar. Yeah. It

1:32:55

was Best Actor Who Doesn't Use

1:32:57

Silverware. That was a... I'm surprised

1:33:01

Anthony Hopkins didn't win that one. Yeah.

1:33:03

God, that guy's annoying. Right over the

1:33:05

fucking hill with him. But the nomination

1:33:08

was unable to go forward because animal

1:33:10

actors are precluded from receiving Academy Awards.

1:33:12

Oh boy. Well, somebody didn't read the

1:33:14

form before they put him in. Absolutely

1:33:17

not. How bad would you feel as

1:33:19

an actor? It's Bart the Bear, right?

1:33:22

It was Anthony Hopkins up for

1:33:24

Best Actor in Remains of the

1:33:26

Day. But darn it, if

1:33:29

Bart the Bear didn't win. Yeah. No.

1:33:31

That would be humiliating. You're right. Okay.

1:33:33

He's not an actor. He's a bear.

1:33:35

Okay. So in 1998, he

1:33:37

actually made an appearance on the

1:33:40

Academy Awards, the 70th Academy Awards

1:33:42

as part of a salute to

1:33:44

animal actors. I'm surprised that he

1:33:47

forgave them. He presented an envelope

1:33:49

to Mike Myers on stage. Okay.

1:33:52

No. Do you remember when the back

1:33:54

of Jennifer Lawrence's dress was torn? That

1:33:56

was the time that Bart the Bear

1:33:58

was on the... on the Oscars.

1:34:00

And he tore the back of her head.

1:34:02

Yeah, ooh boy, shreds in shreds. And that

1:34:04

wasn't Mike Myers, that was a lookalike. Yeah.

1:34:07

Oh my God. I'm gonna wander around the

1:34:09

earth for the rest of her time. I

1:34:11

wonder if Bonnie hasn't been managing somebody else

1:34:13

for quite a while now, thinking

1:34:16

she was managing me. It's

1:34:18

a little suspicious. But

1:34:20

go on Bonnie, go on with these great gardening

1:34:22

tips. In

1:34:25

1998, I think he was like around 22,

1:34:27

he was diagnosed with cancer. Oh

1:34:30

no. He underwent surgery twice to

1:34:33

remove the tumors. It was in his

1:34:35

right paw, okay? But the

1:34:37

cancer returned. Oh, hot tumors. Did he go bug?

1:34:39

Did he have to wear a whole body wig?

1:34:42

His cancer returned. It took

1:34:44

away his appetite

1:34:46

and his strength. And then he became

1:34:48

like he didn't wanna take his pain

1:34:50

medication anymore. And his

1:34:53

trainer said that he told him that

1:34:55

he was ready to go. And

1:34:57

then Bart the Bear breathed his

1:35:00

last breath in the trainer's face. Okay,

1:35:03

so rude to the end. Okay,

1:35:06

here's the thing. Honestly. Bart the

1:35:08

Bear's trainer might've been a little

1:35:10

nutty because the bear didn't tell

1:35:12

him anything. Oof. Yeah.

1:35:16

I think he recognized it in his

1:35:18

eyes, okay? All right. Yeah.

1:35:21

Again, we all like to layer on

1:35:23

to animals what we think they're thinking

1:35:25

or what we think they're saying. And

1:35:28

they're not. We just, you

1:35:30

know. I would like to encourage the

1:35:32

nobodies to go like on YouTube and

1:35:34

see some footage of Bart the Bear

1:35:36

because he is amazing. Okay,

1:35:40

after receiving a cancer diagnosis, Bart

1:35:42

served as a spokes bear for

1:35:45

the Animal Cancer Center at Colorado

1:35:47

State University. Oh, so he did

1:35:49

volunteer work too. That's a really

1:35:51

nice. And he

1:35:53

was the spokes bear. Wow.

1:35:57

You know, there's- Yeah, but he did replace the

1:35:59

other. the

1:40:00

candidate you have to love to yeah no

1:40:02

but you can't you can't there's strict laws

1:40:04

about that can't give it directly to you

1:40:06

can give it in the proximity

1:40:11

of the candidate right our congressman

1:40:13

shift I'm just gonna leave this

1:40:15

envelope on this table right

1:40:17

here and walk away yeah that's

1:40:20

good that's good that's how it's

1:40:22

done now not to single out

1:40:24

Adam Schiff who I'm sure would

1:40:26

vote for campaign finance reform if

1:40:28

it could ever get 100% yeah

1:40:30

yeah but so not to single

1:40:32

out Adam Schiff

1:40:36

who Bonnie saw by the way Oh Bonnie

1:40:38

saw him yeah yeah she showed me a

1:40:40

picture that was not Adam

1:40:42

Schiff that was I thought it looked a lot

1:40:44

like Adam Schiff except for the long

1:40:47

blonde hair and you

1:40:50

know and then the evening gown and

1:40:52

the and a

1:40:55

giant birthmark but otherwise it looked

1:40:57

a lot like Adam Schiff yeah

1:40:59

heaven forbid she's the only witness

1:41:01

to a crime because she she

1:41:03

just doesn't notice details

1:41:05

you know simple

1:41:08

details like you know so ma'am

1:41:10

can you describe the murderer yes

1:41:13

officer it was Rod Stewart yeah

1:41:15

no it was Elton John I'm sure of it

1:41:18

he came right up this yellow brick road

1:41:20

here yeah we have we have good evidence

1:41:23

I know I'm not supposed to be here

1:41:25

but I just have to say this okay

1:41:27

you're not here so you know I'm gonna

1:41:29

get a knee replacement operation I'm

1:41:31

kind of interested in that so when Rod

1:41:34

Stewart just came back to go back to

1:41:36

the station where the person the hairdresser was

1:41:38

gonna cut his hair he was

1:41:40

sort of like shuffling and

1:41:42

that I had to realize that people then

1:41:44

I looked him up and it turns out

1:41:46

he'd had a knee replacement and I'm like

1:41:48

oh my god look it that didn't work

1:41:50

out so well yeah

1:41:53

cuz it wasn't Rod Stewart yeah I

1:41:55

mean you can Not

1:42:01

everyone who shuffles is Rod Stewart. That's one

1:42:03

of the things. You've

1:42:05

got, there's so much like,

1:42:08

okay, remember proofs and geometry? Like

1:42:10

there's so many, yeah, your

1:42:13

system isn't working at all. I think,

1:42:15

you know what? Somebody asked Julie if

1:42:17

she could please book Rod Stewart for

1:42:19

the show because, you

1:42:22

know, I think, first of

1:42:24

all, Bonnie, you're not here, but second of all, Adam, I

1:42:27

think Rod Stewart would be glad to come on our

1:42:29

podcast. And we

1:42:31

can, Bonnie, you're not here. And we can, you

1:42:33

know, unlike our guests

1:42:35

today, we can give them a lot of

1:42:37

money because we are making- He's not running

1:42:39

for anything. We are making, exactly. And we

1:42:42

are making tons of money on this podcast.

1:42:44

I mean, it's just- And I'm sure it's

1:42:47

even exponentially more since garden time. Oh

1:42:49

my gosh, yeah. Somebody suggested, by

1:42:51

the way, a garden time with

1:42:54

Captain Kringle, trowel as a

1:42:56

merchandise that we could sell. And

1:42:58

I think that's brilliant. I think it would

1:43:01

probably be involved as a murder weapon and

1:43:03

a lot of murders, and that'll be good

1:43:05

publicity. That's great publicity,

1:43:07

because it's protruding from somebody's back. Yeah.

1:43:10

Did you see Bart the Bear in Romeo

1:43:12

and Juliet? He

1:43:16

was fantastic. I

1:43:18

believe that title of that one was Romeo

1:43:20

and Juliet and Bart the Bear. Yeah, it

1:43:23

was. No, no,

1:43:25

Bart the Bear was Juliet. And what I

1:43:27

was amazed at is the way he was

1:43:30

able to, you know, cross over, you know,

1:43:33

and he really released the feminine

1:43:35

side of himself in that role

1:43:38

of Juliet. He was a gifted

1:43:40

actor. Yeah, tremendous loss. I'm

1:43:44

pouring one out for Bart the Bear right now. You're

1:43:49

not here. No, it's sort of sweet and sad.

1:43:51

You're not, you know, you're not- I believe that

1:43:53

he blew his last breath in the train of

1:43:55

space. That's ridiculous. I believe

1:43:58

he blew his trainer. I

1:44:01

can't believe you

1:44:03

said that!