0:05

But I tell you one

0:05

thing that's pushing us in this

0:09

direction is the huge amount of

0:09

people that are out there that

0:14

can define themselves as solo

0:14

agers. This is we do a weekly

0:19

discussion in my community on a

0:19

variety of topics. Our most

0:23

popular topic is so what are we

0:23

reaching? There are so many

0:27

people that are out there who

0:27

either have outlived their

0:30

family, they they have been

0:30

divorced, they may be where they

0:35

were, where they were, their

0:35

former movie all over the world

0:39

and are taking full

0:39

responsibility for what their

0:46

their steps are in their care.

0:46

And for the soldiers building

0:50

that personal village is even

0:50

more important.

0:55

Welcome to Now

0:55

or Never Long-Term Care Strategy

0:58

making. themselves. with Kosta

0:58

Yepifantsev a podcast for all

1:01

those seeking answers and

1:01

solutions in the long term care

1:04

space. This podcast is designed

1:04

to create resources, start

1:08

conversations and bring

1:08

awareness to the industry that

1:11

will inevitably impact all

1:11

Americans. Here's your host

1:15

Kosta Yepifantsev.

1:17

Hey, y'all,

1:17

it's Kosta. Today, I'm here with

1:19

my guest, Steve Gurney, founder

1:19

and CEO of positive aging

1:23

community, author, and Senior

1:23

Living advocate of over 30

1:28

years. Now, before we get into

1:28

the episode, I want to talk

1:32

about your own personal journey

1:32

with care. Like so many of us,

1:36

you've come into this industry

1:36

through necessity, will you tell

1:39

us a bit more about how your

1:39

family's experience with

1:43

caregiving inspired your career?

1:46

Absolutely. Thanks

1:46

for having me. My journey began

1:51

when I was in college, my

1:51

grandfather needed care, he had

1:56

a stroke, he was paralyzed,

1:56

needed to go to a nursing home,

2:00

I saw firsthand what my family

2:00

had to go through to make that

2:04

challenging decision. And it

2:04

kind of surprised me that there

2:09

wasn't a guidebook that would

2:09

help people through that

2:13

difficult journey. And so fast

2:13

forward, I graduated from

2:18

college, didn't have the

2:18

greatest job in the world. And I

2:23

decided, hey, look, I'm gonna

2:23

put together a guide. And it'll

2:28

be a great something that shows

2:28

that I'm a self starter on my

2:31

resume, maybe get me into a

2:31

fancy grad school. And I started

2:36

what is called now the positive

2:36

aging Sourcebook back then it

2:40

was called the Guide to

2:40

Retirement Living. And much to

2:44

my surprise, folks really

2:44

embraced it. Because there

2:48

really wasn't a comprehensive

2:48

listing, you were basically, you

2:53

would be discharged from the

2:53

hospital, and the social worker

2:55

would tell you, here's where

2:55

you're gonna go versus being

2:58

able to see all the different

2:58

options. So I've been doing that

3:02

for about 33 years, I am based

3:02

here in the DC, Washington, DC,

3:08

metro area. But the print

3:08

publication covers the entire

3:14

Mid Atlantic from Philadelphia

3:14

to Northern Virginia. But our

3:18

articles and all the things that

3:18

we do are not location specific.

3:23

I did have an interesting path

3:23

where I ended up selling the

3:27

business to the Washington Post,

3:27

and I ran it under their

3:32

ownership for over 20 years. And

3:32

about 14 years ago, I had an

3:36

opportunity to buy the the

3:36

company back, and I'm running it

3:40

on my own again.

3:41

Can I Can I

3:41

ask what was it like the

3:45

feedback that you got,

3:45

especially early on when you

3:47

released your book? What was the

3:47

feedback like did it obviously

3:52

was received very well. But I'm

3:52

curious to hear what people had

3:56

to say about it. Well,

3:58

the number one, a

3:58

lot of professionals in the

4:02

field were like, I can't believe

4:02

I didn't come. Because

4:06

especially like the marketing

4:06

people, they had these they had

4:11

lists, they were compiling of

4:11

all the options so that they

4:15

wouldn't know where the other

4:15

communities were their

4:17

competitors for business

4:17

analysis, but no one had really

4:21

thought to sort of create a

4:21

consumer based directory. What

4:26

am I things was being what I and

4:26

it may have been a little bit.

4:31

So people embraced it. But I was

4:31

really young. I was in my early

4:36

20s. And I didn't have industry

4:36

knowledge. I was just learning

4:41

as I was going along. And one

4:41

interesting thing is now

4:45

nationwide, the term assisted

4:45

living was, you know, pretty

4:51

common. Use that pretty common.

4:51

Back then. 33 years ago, in

4:57

Maryland, DC and Virginia. They

4:57

were called on a board and care

5:01

homes and you know, retirement

5:01

homes and things like this, and

5:05

actually, like I have one of the

5:05

marketing things for sunrise

5:10

assisted living, which is their

5:10

senior living, which is one of

5:13

the largest companies is out

5:13

there. At the time. They only

5:18

had two locations, and they were

5:18

calling them sunrise retirement

5:21

homes. So but what was

5:21

interesting is I was looking at

5:27

all of this, and I had to create

5:27

a category with a label. And I

5:32

decided to create that section.

5:32

As like, you know, this assisted

5:36

living term that's being thrown

5:36

out there a little bit is a lot

5:41

easier to understand. And so I

5:41

just threw a dart at the

5:45

dartboard and I'm glad I threw

5:45

it at the lemming at the right,

5:49

Steve, did you coined the term

5:49

assisted living?

5:52

Oh, no, not at all.

5:54

Maybe

5:54

popularized using it, you made

5:56

it more mainstream?

5:57

I think, I think

5:57

one thing, I think, at least in

6:01

the markets that i, where i was

6:01

doing this book, is because we

6:08

were kind of lumping everybody

6:08

under this umbrella. It really

6:13

helped. Because at the time,

6:13

Virginia and Maryland, there was

6:19

sort of a legal name that they

6:19

were supposed to be using. And

6:24

by me sort of not worrying about

6:24

the geographic boundaries, they

6:28

can still use any name. And we

6:28

describe the different

6:33

categories in our article. So

6:33

anyways, interesting stuff. It's

6:38

been a really fun journey. And

6:38

let's

6:40

talk about

6:40

that fun journey. Because your

6:43

experience as a resident, and a

6:43

senior living community at 45,

6:49

is rather astonishing. You knew

6:49

you wanted to be an expert in

6:54

senior living, and what better

6:54

way to become an expert than to

6:58

learn firsthand, right? You. You

6:58

live temporarily in five

7:05

different senior communities.

7:05

What was that like? And what did

7:08

you learn?

7:11

It was probably

7:11

one of the most awesome

7:14

decisions and eye opening

7:14

experiences in my career. And

7:20

let me kind of back up a little

7:20

bit. So remember, I started this

7:25

at age 20. And I definitely was

7:25

a pioneer in sort of

7:33

categorizing and organizing all

7:33

of these complex eldercare

7:38

options. I had also visited over

7:38

500 communities, I interviewed

7:43

hundreds of people on their

7:43

transition from their home into

7:48

a community. And I was regarded

7:48

as this senior housing expert,

7:53

you know, so if, if some media

7:53

was doing an article, they call,

7:59

Hey, I heard you're a senior

7:59

housing expert, and to set the

8:02

other end. And at some point, in

8:02

my so, at 43, I was over 20

8:09

years experience in this field,

8:09

regarded as the senior housing

8:14

expert. And I was at UC and, and

8:14

I was in a client's, at a

8:19

community where they were asking

8:19

me my opinion on something. And

8:23

I said, you know, I started to

8:23

answer him. And I said, But you

8:27

know, the best way for me to

8:27

answer that would be to just

8:30

move in here and stay for a bit.

8:30

And I've never done that. And

8:34

that would give me a better

8:34

perspective. And they looked at

8:36

me kind of funny. They're like,

8:36

really? And I said, Yeah, you

8:41

know, it's sort of like, How can

8:41

I be an expert? It's kind of

8:44

like, saying that I work at a

8:44

restaurant, but I don't eat the

8:49

food there. Right. And so they

8:49

called me a couple of weeks

8:53

later, I moved in. The first one

8:53

was an assisted living community

8:58

that was in the suburbs. Okay,

8:58

I, I was not pretending to be

9:04

anybody other than my healthy 43

9:04

year old, okay. I actually had a

9:11

classmate that did this in a

9:11

nursing home where he was in a

9:14

wheelchair and taking

9:14

medications. And what I wanted

9:18

to do is say, convenes homes be

9:18

a home to a person, not an older

9:24

person or a person with a

9:24

disability. And I have to tell

9:28

you, these homes and I've done

9:28

it five times in a very

9:32

different communities. These are

9:32

the best neighborhoods I've ever

9:36

spent time in, okay. And the

9:36

main reason why is the, the the

9:44

caring that the neighbor, so,

9:44

the blind spot in in 33 years,

9:51

what I didn't see is how much

9:51

the other residents care for

9:54

each other. So especially if

9:54

you're in a big community, it's

9:59

not like There's an RN, that's

9:59

going to be there at every

10:02

quarter when you need help

10:02

picking something up off the

10:05

floor. It's the fellow

10:05

residents, and the sense of

10:09

camaraderie. And whenever I

10:09

would go back home to my family

10:13

in the suburbs, after one of

10:13

these adventures, I really felt

10:19

lonely because being part of

10:19

that community in close

10:23

proximity to people and knowing

10:23

that people care about you, was

10:27

a really good feeling.

10:29

And a lot of

10:29

times, when we talk to people,

10:31

that's always sort of the tenant

10:31

that comes out is you have to

10:34

have a network of people that

10:34

are supporting you, and that you

10:40

can also support them in the

10:40

journey. And especially if you

10:43

have that network, then you can

10:43

age in a much more. And I don't

10:48

want to say safer, it's just you

10:48

don't you don't fall into a lot

10:53

of the into the pitfalls that a

10:53

lot of people who are aging do,

10:57

because you have a network of support.

11:00

I'm really, you're

11:00

hitting on one of my hot

11:03

buttons. And I have lately,

11:03

we've been calling this building

11:07

your personal village. So rpm

11:07

has been doing a study since the

11:13

beginning of time that says

11:13

that, you know, X amount of

11:15

people want to age in place.

11:15

Yeah, they want to age in place,

11:20

you know, and, and, and I get

11:20

it, okay. We are like the

11:26

memories of our home and the

11:26

sense of independence, I think

11:30

the most important thing about

11:30

aging in place is that you're

11:35

living in, in a neighborhood

11:35

that is not segregated. So

11:41

senior community, senior living

11:41

communities are the last legal

11:45

segregated housing that we have,

11:45

you can build something that

11:50

says young people can't live

11:50

here. And that's, that's one of

11:54

the reasons why folks want to

11:54

stay in their home and not age

11:59

in place, because they don't

11:59

want to move to an age

12:02

segregated housing option, no

12:02

matter how great it sounds,

12:05

okay. Now, the secret to aging

12:05

in place is not hiring 100

12:13

Different companies to help you,

12:13

you might need to hire 100

12:16

Different companies to make that

12:16

happen. But it's building that

12:20

personal village and having

12:20

conversations with that personal

12:24

village, on, you know, what are

12:24

my dreams? What are my ideas?

12:29

What are the things that I like

12:29

to do? And how can I give you

12:32

support? Talking about my

12:32

village? And how can you help me

12:36

if I need help. And if people

12:36

would invest more time and doing

12:40

that, the experience of aging in

12:40

place would be better. But also

12:45

what would be better is when

12:45

they do decide to make the move,

12:49

they can bring that personal

12:49

village over with them. And now

12:54

their personal village becomes

12:54

part of the senior living

12:57

community as well. And I feel

12:57

like we're moving in this

13:02

direction. But there's still a

13:02

lot that we could do. But I tell

13:07

you one thing that's pushing us

13:07

in this direction, is the huge

13:13

amount of people that are out

13:13

there that can define themselves

13:17

as solo agers. This is we do a

13:17

weekly discussion in my

13:22

community, on a variety of

13:22

topics. Our most popular topic

13:26

is solar, we reaching, there are

13:26

so many people that are out

13:30

there who either have outlived

13:30

their family, they may have been

13:36

divorced, they may be a widow or

13:36

whatever, or their favorite

13:41

movie all over the world. And

13:41

they are taking full

13:46

responsibility for what their

13:46

their steps are in their care.

13:53

And for the solar wagers

13:53

building, that personal village

13:56

is even more important.

13:58

What are some

13:58

other components of a positive

14:01

aging community? And how does it

14:01

help seniors and our communities

14:05

overall?

14:06

I think the

14:06

hardest thing is communication.

14:10

It's having discussions with

14:10

your loved ones about these

14:16

choices. It's it's being

14:16

involved. That is what I see is

14:21

the hardest thing for people to

14:21

do. And right. Let's let's talk

14:26

about one of the hardest things

14:26

that we can talk about talking

14:29

about that. Yeah, you know, and,

14:29

and, and that's one thing that I

14:34

found when I made these moves

14:34

into the senior communities that

14:38

the residents of these

14:38

communities have, it's almost

14:42

more of a beautiful dialogue

14:42

about end of life. That I think

14:49

for younger generations is a

14:49

little bit harder to talk about

14:54

and be but because they're

14:54

there, you know, just by default

15:00

out there in the community where

15:00

they're seeing their their

15:03

friends and their loved ones

15:03

pass away at probably a higher

15:07

rate than those of us who were

15:07

younger, it becomes a more

15:11

normal conversation. And when it

15:11

becomes a more normal

15:15

conversation, you can now share

15:15

with your loved ones and those

15:19

people around you what your

15:19

wishes are. And in that, that's,

15:23

that's one element there.

15:23

Another element that I would

15:26

bring up, and as you can tell,

15:29

this is fascinating.

15:30

Yeah, the use of

15:30

technology, I think that we

15:35

have, we have a huge problem in

15:35

terms of getting enough people

15:43

to care for elders that need

15:43

assistance, okay, with the

15:48

shifts and then bounces in

15:48

supply and the demographics. And

15:54

then just people that want to do

15:54

that job and can do that job

15:57

well and are committed to it.

15:57

And technology like Alexa and

16:03

Google Home. Just that my watch

16:03

here is tracking a lot of my

16:10

health care status without me

16:10

knowing it, instead of having

16:14

the fallen and I couldn't get up

16:14

devices around our neck, we can

16:19

now have sensors that are

16:19

monitoring, if I fall or if

16:24

something happens, and, and I

16:24

don't even need to think about

16:29

it. These are some exciting

16:29

developments that can save

16:34

people money by utilizing

16:34

technology, meaning they don't

16:37

need as much hate paid care,

16:37

personal care that they need.

16:41

Yeah. But it can also

16:41

communicate with our loved ones

16:46

and our healthcare providers a

16:46

little bit better. Some exciting

16:51

things out there. When when

16:51

people asked me to is a lot of

16:54

times people are asking me,

16:54

they'll say, Hey, what is the

16:57

best technology out there for

16:57

older adults. And I don't think

17:01

there's anything best because

17:01

we're all unique. But one of the

17:05

elements of what are the

17:05

elements that I like, is don't

17:11

go grandparent, and what gogo

17:11

grandparent is, is, if you're

17:17

not skilled at using one of

17:17

these things, it can be very

17:20

difficult to get an Uber or Lyft

17:20

ride, go go grandparent and

17:24

enable somebody with a rotary

17:24

dial phone to get an Uber or

17:28

Lyft. And they're using

17:28

technology, so that we don't

17:33

need to necessarily use

17:33

technology, similar to the way

17:37

that the Amazon Alexa works. I

17:37

don't need to master a bunch of

17:41

apps, I just, you know,

17:43

say Alexa,

17:43

I'm sure it probably popped up.

17:48

The good thing is,

17:48

well, I got Google Home in this

17:51

room. So that's good.

17:54

It makes a

17:54

lot of sense. And you know, I'm

17:56

gonna thread this needle and kind of bring it all full circle. So, aging in place, as

17:58

even though everybody wants to

18:03

do it, it does have a lot of

18:03

unfortunate social isolations.

18:08

And society, you know, has

18:08

always, recently, especially in

18:13

the last, like 30 years has has

18:13

somewhat been trending in that

18:15

direction, you know, people kind

18:15

of don't mind that they're by

18:19

themselves, right? And even

18:19

though we're always talking

18:23

about the necessity for

18:23

community, so it reinforces

18:27

aging in place, in my opinion,

18:27

reinforces this social

18:31

isolation. And if you don't

18:31

build a circle of support, or as

18:36

you describe kind of the, the

18:36

network, right, then you will,

18:42

you will fall into that trap.

18:42

And I think that at some point,

18:45

you can get so far down the

18:45

rabbit hole of being by yourself

18:48

that it's hard to get out of it.

18:48

And I love I love the fact that

18:53

they're that they're creating

18:53

these retirement communities.

18:55

You know, I grew up in Atlanta.

18:55

And every time I go to visit my

18:59

parents, there are 50 plus

18:59

communities popping up

19:02

everywhere. And I'll tell you,

19:02

what's interesting about the

19:06

technological component is, I

19:06

think, even more so than the

19:15

Aging in Place aspect. I believe

19:15

that if people aren't accessing

19:22

these retirement communities and

19:22

compounding technology and aging

19:26

in place, I think it's going to

19:26

it's going to exacerbate the

19:30

social isolation because people

19:30

typically have most of their

19:33

interaction with human

19:33

caregivers, statistically, and

19:38

so the fact that people are

19:38

coming around to the idea that

19:43

living in a community that's 50

19:43

plots, that's a senior

19:46

community, and they are

19:46

embracing it is going to not

19:51

just solve some of our

19:51

significant issues when it comes

19:55

to care, specifically the supply

19:55

and demand issues. But I think

19:59

it's Going to give, it's going

19:59

to finally de stigmatize what

20:05

these communities are meant to

20:05

do. And it's and I think it'll

20:09

help people in the long run live

20:09

longer and happier lives. Not to

20:13

sound cliche, but it's true.

20:14

Oh, no. And, and

20:14

one little tip that's worked

20:19

with some of the members of our

20:19

communities is that there's a

20:23

lot of folks that are out there,

20:23

and they'll, they'll get our

20:26

guide, or they'll come into a

20:26

discussion and they're like,

20:30

Okay, I've toured all these

20:30

places, I, and, no, I'm not

20:36

ready for any of them yet, but I

20:36

do want a more carefree

20:40

lifestyle. And one solution that

20:40

has worked really well, is what

20:46

I've sort of coined the term

20:46

smart lifestyle community. These

20:50

are generally apartments and I

20:50

said, apartments, because an

20:54

apartment is something that you

20:54

can rent and see how it works,

20:57

okay, versus a condo, it's a

20:57

transaction, and you're stuck

21:02

with the condo fees, and this

21:02

that the other. But I always

21:06

recommend folks is utilize the

21:06

website Walkscore. Use the AARP

21:10

livability index, look into

21:10

apartments. And the most

21:15

important thing to be close to

21:15

is the grocery store, you don't

21:19

need to be close to hospitals,

21:19

because hopefully, you're not

21:22

going to have to go to a

21:22

hospital, but a grocery store in

21:26

something and the beauty is here

21:26

in the DC metro market. And I

21:31

know a lot of larger markets,

21:31

we're getting these sort of

21:35

urban suburban cities. And a lot

21:35

of times, they're putting a

21:39

Harris Teeter or grocery store,

21:39

on the bottom level of an

21:42

apartment building, what a great

21:42

place to live. By by renting,

21:47

you can experiment with

21:47

downsizing, see if you like that

21:51

lifestyle. And a lot of times,

21:51

there's a lot of empty nesters

21:56

in these urban suburban

21:56

apartment buildings. And then

22:00

you know, if you if you like it

22:00

great if you don't move back to

22:04

your home, if you feel like you

22:04

need more care in the health

22:08

care safety net, then maybe you

22:08

can move to a life plan

22:11

community from there. But that's

22:11

one tip to certainly the stigma

22:16

really bothers you. That's one

22:16

way to get around it.

22:20

Good point.

22:20

Positive aging community isn't

22:24

just a company name for you.

22:24

It's a philosophy. Would you

22:28

mind sharing how this philosophy

22:28

impacts the approach of your

22:32

organization? And how it could

22:32

impact our listeners?

22:36

Yeah, wow, great

22:36

question. And I. So one of the

22:43

things that the the term

22:43

positive aging, and here, again,

22:50

I didn't sort of coined this

22:50

term or anything like that, but

22:54

one term that I did coin was pro

22:54

aging. And you can get to a

23:01

website at pro aging.com. And

23:01

but I coined the term pro aging

23:07

for professionals in the field

23:07

of aging. But But I then

23:11

realized it's like, wow, this

23:11

also has another point to it,

23:19

which is positive aging, and

23:19

this I like that term pro aging,

23:23

positive aging, because in

23:23

general, in our culture, ageism

23:29

and the stigma of growing old,

23:29

and the the things that are the

23:36

beautiful wrinkles and gray hair

23:36

that we develop, we don't work

23:40

with them that way. And and so

23:40

if I do have a philosophy, it's

23:47

to look at this chapter of our

23:47

lives as not one of decline in

23:53

depression. But what if

23:53

opportunity and exploration and

23:58

wisdom and the fact that you

23:58

don't have maybe some of those

24:04

biases that you had when you

24:04

were younger? The it's it's not

24:09

easy though, it because if

24:09

you've got healthcare changes,

24:14

if you have loss in grief,

24:14

reinventing yourself and finding

24:20

purpose in life can be

24:20

challenging, but one of the

24:25

benefits of being an elder is is

24:25

that you don't you can't live on

24:30

this planet for 40 5060 years

24:30

without solving a lot of

24:35

problems and overcoming a lot of

24:35

challenges. And it's just you

24:41

know, looking creatively and

24:41

positively sorry about that.

24:48

And, and really embracing this,

24:48

this chapter in our lives.

24:54

As an expert

24:54

in senior living. What do you

24:56

believe is the biggest

24:56

misconception about This

25:00

experience,

25:01

that it's any

25:01

different than any sort of

25:05

chapter in our lives that we

25:05

have gone through before. So, I

25:11

mean, and that's one of the

25:11

things, one of the things, when

25:13

I'm talking to people about this

25:13

transition, nobody wants to move

25:19

to a senior community. Now, when

25:19

they move there, I've

25:23

interviewed hundreds of people

25:23

that want it. And so when I work

25:26

with families and individuals, I

25:26

say, look, you're not looking at

25:31

an old folks home, let's pretend

25:31

that you're going to find the

25:35

next college you're going to.

25:35

And let's sort of compare these

25:39

two things. A college kid

25:39

walking onto a campus, he's not

25:44

thinking about this being

25:44

decline, he's thinking about

25:47

this as being an opportunity,

25:47

positive experience. And that's

25:51

what this chapter can be to.

25:51

Also a college kid, when he

25:55

walks on that campus, he doesn't

25:55

care about the square footage of

25:59

his dorm room, it's the other

25:59

students on the campus, right.

26:03

And that's what we should be

26:03

doing too is that the new

26:06

people, I'm going to meet the

26:06

new experiences, and it would be

26:10

the case of an elder going to a

26:10

community or aging in place and

26:15

getting out there and joining a

26:15

new club. They have life

26:19

experience that they can really

26:19

share. Your typical 18 year old

26:23

doesn't have any life

26:23

experience, he or she is trying

26:27

to gain that. Right, your

26:27

typical senior living community

26:31

is just you could staff a small

26:31

college with the residents that

26:36

are that are in any of these

26:36

communities.

26:39

I mean, why

26:39

do you think that we have

26:42

experience experience, the

26:42

stigma that we're describing?

26:45

And also secondary to that? Is

26:45

it improving? Meaning are people

26:50

starting to shed that stigma?

26:52

It is improving, I

26:52

think one of the reasons that we

26:56

have the stigma is that, let's

26:56

say that your pursuits in life

27:02

are primary, primarily athletic.

27:02

And as you grow older, it has

27:08

nothing to do with you growing

27:08

older, by the way, I mean,

27:11

there's people who get injured,

27:11

and and blow out a knee when

27:15

they're in their 20s. But as we

27:15

grow older, many of us it's

27:18

like, oh, I can't swing golf

27:18

club, like I used to swing the

27:21

tennis racket, ride my bike,

27:21

what have you. And so it can

27:25

oftentimes be looked at is Oh,

27:25

because I'm growing older, I

27:29

have to give up these things.

27:29

Okay, now, that, again, this

27:34

happens at every stage in our

27:34

life. So what are some things

27:39

that we can do to make this

27:39

better? One of the things I like

27:42

to spotlight is how it's

27:42

perfectly acceptable to go to a

27:49

birthday party for somebody over

27:49

a certain age, and give them

27:52

this horrible birthday card with

27:52

all this black humor, you know,

27:57

with the Grim Reaper, or them in

27:57

a rocking chair, that their life

28:01

is over and this that the other,

28:01

and that's acceptable. In fact,

28:04

you hand that card to somebody

28:04

and they'll laugh right along

28:07

with you. And I think Little

28:07

things like that, if we start

28:11

moving the needle, to, if you

28:11

get a card like that, use it as

28:18

a opportunity to have a

28:18

dialogue, okay, about what

28:22

growing older can be and what it

28:22

should be. But number two, just

28:26

stop giving cards like that, you

28:26

know, there's so many positive

28:30

cards that are out there, again,

28:30

going back to the college age

28:33

kid, look at the cards for a

28:33

high school graduation, and then

28:39

look at the cards for

28:39

retirement. And this one over

28:44

here is for black humor. There's

28:44

no black humor. This is, you

28:48

know, a new chapter in life,

28:48

this is exactly the same, they

28:52

should be exactly the same. In

28:52

fact, I tell people, when you go

28:56

to a retirement party, give them

28:56

a graduation card, because

29:03

retirement is is the most

29:03

exciting graduation in our life.

29:07

We're just moving to another

29:07

chapter. I know I've been

29:11

That was

29:11

perfect. I think essentially

29:13

what you're saying and this is

29:13

something that I that I'm always

29:15

fascinated with is how we've

29:15

socially engineered our society

29:19

to, to think in the capacity

29:19

that you're describing. And we

29:23

talked to a lot of people about

29:23

ageism, and I'll be honest, I

29:26

haven't really taken it to heart

29:26

Intel, we started the show and

29:32

started to really understand the

29:32

impacts that it has within the

29:35

senior community. And then you

29:35

have the personal experiences

29:39

like for example, my in laws are

29:39

well into their late 70s. I have

29:43

some people that I work with who

29:43

are you know, 95 105 and I

29:49

talked to my in laws and they

29:49

seem somewhat concerned with

29:53

their age, whereas the people

29:53

who are in their 95 and 105 ages

29:58

they're talking about hey, You

29:58

know, next year, I'm going to

30:01

move into a lot to a bigger

30:01

place, or I'm going to be closer

30:05

to not the senior citizen

30:05

center, I'm going to be close,

30:09

I'm going to be closer to, you

30:09

know, the, the target that's

30:13

down the road, because I love

30:13

going there. And they're nine. I

30:18

mean, one of the guy that comes

30:18

to mind, he's 102 years old, you

30:21

know, and so, and I can see the

30:21

differences and one listens to

30:27

the directions that, you know,

30:27

society gives them about how

30:33

they should feel that will at

30:33

this age, and how they should,

30:36

you know, you can't run anymore.

30:36

So you might as well just pack

30:41

it all in, don't go to the gym,

30:41

you know, don't use the

30:44

elliptical, don't you don't go

30:44

swimming, and do water aerobics,

30:47

just go and pack it in, you're

30:47

done. You know, you don't get

30:50

hurt, you know, God forbid that

30:50

you fall and hurt yourself. This

30:54

other guy's like, um, do

30:54

whatever I want, you know, I'm

30:57

gonna just keep going like I've

30:57

been alive long enough. So I can

31:00

listen to my body. So I totally

31:00

understand what you're saying.

31:03

Taking a look back, you founded

31:03

Retirement Living Sourcebook in

31:08

1990, over the past 30 years

31:08

working in senior living, what's

31:13

changed the most?

31:15

I think there's

31:15

more choices out there. That

31:19

back 30 years ago, the category

31:19

of assisted living really didn't

31:24

exist. And that's one of the

31:24

reasons why a lot of us have

31:28

these horrible stigmas of

31:28

nursing homes, because

31:30

basically, the people that are

31:30

now in assisted living, were

31:35

there in the skilled nursing

31:35

center. And that that was tough,

31:41

you know, it's tough to see mom

31:41

and dad who just need help with

31:45

one or two activities of daily

31:45

living with somebody who is

31:48

totally bedridden. And so the

31:48

the amount of choices that are

31:52

out there is increased. One of

31:52

the challenges that we face is

31:58

addressing the needs of what

31:58

they are referring to as the

32:02

Forgotten middle. It's this

32:02

group, and there's more choices

32:06

coming out there. But it's this

32:06

group, you know, if you're

32:09

impoverished, we've got

32:09

Medicaid, we got the PACE

32:13

program, we got things like

32:13

that, if you are wealthy, you've

32:17

got plenty of opportunities that

32:17

are out there. But it's this

32:22

group in the middle that I've

32:22

always referred to as the cop

32:25

between the cracks and ties, the

32:25

middle takes more creativity

32:30

there. And we need, we need more

32:30

resources for that group. There

32:34

are more resources than there

32:34

were 30 years ago. But there's

32:37

also more people needing this

32:37

stuff. Than then there's there.

32:42

And it seems like as you're

32:42

talking about, like, you know,

32:47

Atlanta, whatever in this

32:47

market, too, is that there's a

32:52

lot of new communities being

32:52

built, but they're primarily

32:54

being built for folks with

32:54

assets. And

32:58

so I mean,

32:58

what do you suggest is some of

33:00

the solutions that we can take

33:03

the early

33:03

solution, and I mean, is what we

33:07

were talking about is building

33:07

your personal village. Because

33:11

if you can cultivate a personal

33:11

village, and it doesn't

33:17

necessarily need to be friends

33:17

and family, it can be like in in

33:21

some markets, there's Shepherd

33:21

centers where there's volunteers

33:25

that help out, it could be your

33:25

church group, it could be, but

33:29

if you can cultivate a village

33:29

of unpaid support, then it

33:36

stretches your dollar longer. So

33:36

somebody who might need homecare

33:42

for five days a week with them

33:42

could utilize technology and

33:48

their network to provide care

33:48

for three of those five days.

33:53

Now, they're only paying for a

33:53

caregiver for two days. And that

33:56

could that could stretch your

33:56

money for many years, you know,

34:00

so that's the only solution I

34:00

can come up with, you know, you

34:04

can't build communities fast

34:04

enough. I mean, and what are you

34:08

building 100? Apartment?

34:08

affordable community? I mean,

34:14

you probably need 500 Well,

34:16

you know, and

34:16

I think people need to really

34:19

take into consideration what

34:19

what the word affordable

34:22

actually means when it comes to

34:22

people that are retiring. You

34:25

know, I think if you look at the

34:25

statistics, 60% of Americans

34:31

that are retiring are retiring

34:31

with just basic social security.

34:34

So there's in the other, you

34:34

know, there's a batter, that 30%

34:39

that are retiring with about an

34:39

average of $250,000 in savings

34:43

and then obviously you have the

34:43

10% Those 60% are drawing around

34:50

1200 to $1,800, you know, a

34:50

month that's not a lot of money.

34:56

And you know, when you're a builder and you're looking to extrapolate as much bang for

34:58

your buck, so to speak, you

35:02

know, I think that it's going to

35:02

be necessary, especially as we

35:05

progress into more of an aging

35:05

population for the federal

35:08

government to try and consider

35:08

subsidizing some of these

35:11

projects. Because, you know, not

35:11

just having the conversation

35:15

today, which has been

35:15

exhilarating, and also has made

35:19

me really consider how important

35:19

these retirement communities

35:22

are. But we need to accelerate

35:22

that. I think you and I are both

35:27

on the same page, when we say

35:27

like, we don't have enough

35:29

housing, and we need more, we

35:29

need it to be affordable. So and

35:32

we need it to be for the 50

35:32

Plus, so that all those people

35:36

that are millennials and Gen Z,

35:36

who are complaining about not

35:39

being able to buy a house have

35:39

access to buying a house, you

35:42

know, so killing, killing two

35:42

birds with one stone, so to

35:46

speak, you know, I want to talk

35:46

about your experience, what's

35:52

the hardest part of getting

35:52

older from a social and communal

35:56

perspective? And what can we do

35:56

to ease these hardships?

36:00

You know, I know I

36:00

sound like a broken record. No,

36:03

no, please. Yeah. But

36:03

communicating with your loved

36:08

ones around you in advance, it

36:08

solves so many problems and

36:13

break. So it's, I know, it's

36:13

hard. But most of the calls that

36:18

I get on a weekly basis are a

36:18

loved one who is flying into

36:24

town, because mom foul, and they

36:24

don't know anything about Brian,

36:32

they don't know what she wanted

36:32

this, that the other, and then

36:36

they might look at the

36:36

situation, you know, coming in

36:39

for the weekend. And it's like,

36:39

Mom, we gotta get you to

36:41

assisted living. No way, I'm not

36:41

going to one of those places.

36:45

And it had they had some

36:45

conversations, some players in

36:51

advance, and that doesn't need

36:51

to be this, this heart, you

36:55

know, eight hour conference

36:55

call, it's just having

36:59

conversations. And a lot of

36:59

times, the best way to have a

37:02

conversation is saying, if

37:02

there's somebody in your life,

37:07

that may or may have dementia,

37:07

or cancer or a mobility issue,

37:13

it's sort of like, hey, what

37:13

would you want us to do? Or what

37:17

would you want to do? If that if

37:17

you were in the situation? Now,

37:22

if somebody says, and they will

37:22

say this, oh, I'm healthy,

37:26

that's not going to happen to

37:26

me, you know, it's sort of like,

37:31

look, this happens to people

37:31

that run marathons. And I'm just

37:36

asking you, let's just have a

37:36

little conversation here.

37:39

Because I've been thinking about

37:39

this, like, the only thing is

37:43

not when you're talking to a

37:43

parent, it's not sort of putting

37:47

it in, sort of, like, the and

37:47

this is another problem is is is

37:53

that if you start talking to an

37:53

elder as though they're like

37:58

somebody different than you talk

37:58

about it as yourself, you can be

38:03

in your 30s and 40s. And think

38:03

about what would happen if I

38:08

developed dementia? Where do I

38:08

want to be cared for in my home?

38:13

Or somewhere else? So

38:15

and even

38:15

understanding the process of

38:17

like, who is the who's the PCP,

38:17

you know, or who is your

38:21

Medicare with, you know, and

38:21

especially, you know, you

38:24

probably know this with with

38:24

dealing, being in this industry

38:27

for so long. There, the majority

38:27

of Americans don't understand

38:31

how Medicare works. You know,

38:31

they don't understand what

38:33

Medicare Advantage is they don't

38:33

understand what a supplemental

38:36

plan is. They don't understand

38:36

how the how the structure of the

38:38

system works. And so I think

38:38

just at least just asking, like,

38:42

hey, you know, what's your

38:42

doctor's name? Or, you know,

38:46

what insurance? Do you have

38:46

simple questions like that, so

38:49

that at least you have your

38:49

very, very, you're at least

38:53

somewhat prepared in the very

38:53

most minut amount, but you're at

38:56

least prepared to, to help when,

38:56

when the time comes. So we

39:01

always like to end the show with

39:01

a call to action. Positive aging

39:06

community offers a wealth of

39:06

resources on senior living, how

39:11

can we use digital tools and

39:11

online communities to create

39:15

more positive outcomes for

39:15

people of all ages?

39:20

I would say,

39:20

folks, visit our website, pro

39:24

imaging.com. And we have these

39:24

weekly discussions on every

39:29

topic under the sun. ageism

39:29

solver with aging, choosing and

39:34

paying for a senior community

39:34

aging in place, and you're not

39:40

being sold to this is basically

39:40

just open discussions. You can

39:45

ask questions, and and I am just

39:45

the pandemic brought this on to

39:53

our business and I'm thrilled

39:53

because for me, it's like a

39:56

support group that I get to wake

39:56

up to and look for or to every

40:01

day that we have one of these

40:01

discussions and I just say to

40:04

your listeners, you know, feel

40:04

free to join us. Because I feel

40:09

like you know, whether it be

40:09

jumping in on a positive aging

40:12

community discussions, or

40:12

joining a support group, or just

40:17

inviting your friends over and

40:17

there's this concept death over

40:20

dinner, check out that book

40:20

where you can host a dinner

40:23

party and the conversation is

40:23

about that. There's so many

40:27

creative ways that you can build

40:27

your personal village or connect

40:30

to another community like ours,

40:30

to just help me this chapter,

40:35

the most wonderful and set an

40:35

example for the generations that

40:40

follow that man, this is

40:40

something to look forward to an

40:44

adventure as every day that

40:44

we're walking this planet should

40:48

be.

40:49

Thank you for

40:49

joining us on this episode of

40:51

Now or Never Long-Term Care

40:51

Strategy with Kosta

40:54

Yepifantsev.If you enjoyed

40:54

listening and you wanna hear

40:57

more make sure you subscribe on

40:57

Apple podcast Spotify or

41:01

wherever you find your

41:01

Podcasts,leave us a review or

41:04

better yet share this episode

41:04

with a friend. Now or Never

41:08

Long-Term Care Strategy is a

41:08

Kosta Yepifantsev

41:13

production.Today’s episode was

41:13

written and produced by Morgan

41:16

Franklin. Want to find out more

41:16

about Kosta? Visit us at

41:21

kostayepifantsev.com