0:05

Hello,

0:07

welcome

0:09

to Ono Ross and Carrie, the show where

0:11

we don't just report on fringe science, spirituality,

0:13

claims of the paranormal, we take part ourselves.

0:16

Yep, when they make the claims, we show up so

0:18

you don't have to. I'm Ross Blaucher. And

0:20

I'm Carrie Poppy, and we're back

0:22

at the Conscious Life Expo 2024. Yeah.

0:25

All right. So for those

0:28

of you who haven't followed

0:30

our many other exploits at

0:32

the Conscious Life Expo, it's

0:34

this amazing collection of crystal

0:36

healers, alien contactees, vaccine deniers.

0:38

Channelers, tarot card readers. Free

0:40

energy machine purveyors, CBD

0:43

oil supplement salesmen.

0:45

Some classics who we've met

0:48

there, Shokun Tali, Kimberly Meredith,

0:50

Jimmy Church, Deborah King,

0:53

Cher Jolene. So many

0:55

wild characters. It's almost overwhelming,

0:58

this collection of people so

1:00

individual and strange that converge

1:03

upon the LAX Hilton every

1:05

year in Los Angeles. And

1:07

have been doing it for over 30 years. I'm

1:11

repeating what they said. I don't know exactly how many

1:13

years it was. It's been around for a long time. This

1:15

year we wanted to see some of our favorites

1:18

and see some new folks. And

1:20

you went to attend this

1:22

talk by Whitley Streber. Whitley

1:25

Streber, a fave of mine.

1:27

The inventor of the cotton gin. Nope.

1:30

Nope. You have it wrong? Okay.

1:33

Oh, that's Eli Whitney? Yeah. Is

1:35

that right? That's right. Whitley Streber is a

1:38

professed UFO

1:40

abductee who wrote one

1:42

of the most famous

1:45

and impactful abductee memoirs

1:48

in English speaking history. Yeah.

1:50

We've talked about Betty and Barney

1:53

Hills incident, which I think was

1:55

the first published abduction experience, but

1:57

I feel like Whitley Streber's communion.

2:00

which came out in 1987,

2:02

really did put the idea

2:04

of alien abduction into the

2:06

common parlance, into all of

2:08

our collective minds. And

2:10

you all may remember the

2:13

iconic photo, not photo, the

2:15

iconic painting on the

2:17

front of the book by Ted Seth

2:19

Jacobs of this gray alien. Though

2:22

really, Carrie's got her copy of the book

2:24

here. And I don't know

2:26

if I would describe him as a gray, maybe

2:28

kind of a very light yellowish gray. Yeah,

2:31

but that is how he's described.

2:33

But with those big almond shaped

2:35

black eyes. And

2:38

maybe he's outsized in my mind at

2:40

Whitley Streber, because this was just right

2:42

in the era when I was really

2:44

getting into UFOs. And I remember seeing

2:46

that image and it just seared into

2:48

my retinas. But I

2:50

feel like a lot of people, maybe our age

2:53

also remember that. Yeah. It's been a long

2:55

way. One of my former coworkers

2:57

at the James Randy Educational Foundation

3:00

also kind of got into organized

3:02

skepticism as they'd put it there.

3:04

Yeah. Because he was

3:07

at one point terrified of UFOs as

3:09

a kid. And he also

3:11

has this very scary association with

3:13

this imagery as just still kind

3:15

of spooky to him if his

3:18

eyes passed over it. At the time,

3:20

I was very much a Christian,

3:22

a believer. And I

3:24

had this kind of working theory, many

3:26

other people have floated versions of this,

3:28

that aliens were demons. And this was

3:31

some sort of thing that they were

3:33

running on the side to kind of

3:35

freak people out. Oh, right. Yes. Oh,

3:38

the Cristiano brothers. Oh, do they have that kind of...

3:41

Okay. Well, definitely that image

3:43

stuck with me. And then I was really

3:45

into the X-Files, which came a few years

3:47

later in all these documentaries that would feature

3:49

various depictions of the gray aliens. But yeah, that

3:51

cover always stood out. And I've got to confess,

3:53

I've never actually read Communion. So I

3:55

just started reading it for the first time. And I

3:57

was going to ask you if we want to... to

4:00

have our listeners vote on whether they

4:02

want us to pause and hold everything

4:04

for a communion book review next week

4:07

or would they like us to move

4:09

on? Are they like, we know enough

4:11

about communion, the memoir, but

4:13

if they're interested, I'd halt and read all of

4:15

communion this week. Yeah, I'd gladly

4:17

do that. All right, we'll put up

4:20

polls on Facebook and X. Okay,

4:23

cool. Yes, X and

4:25

X poll. As I'm editing this, I'll

4:27

have to go do that. But I

4:29

remember when we went to these conferences

4:31

and I realized that Whitley Streber himself

4:34

was appearing, I thought, oh my goodness,

4:36

wow, what a get. Yeah. The guy

4:38

who wrote communion. And it turns out,

4:40

I think he's just kind of made

4:42

sort of a secondary career out of

4:45

making appearances like this. Yeah, the conference

4:47

circuit. Like if you're an actor who's

4:49

been in Star Trek, you've got now

4:51

a lifetime's worth of appearances at various

4:53

booths and photo opportunities. Similar to

4:56

Travis, the guy who he was

4:58

an abductee who had a movie

5:00

made after him. Yes, we met

5:02

him at the Ozark Mountain Conference.

5:04

Fire in the sky, I want to say the name

5:07

of that. Yeah. Travis Walton. Walton, right? Yes. So

5:10

similar thing where, yeah, you

5:12

have this one experience, your book takes

5:14

off and boy, you're the golden child

5:16

until you go. Not the

5:18

Waltons of Good Night, John

5:21

Boy. Right. Yes. For differentiating

5:23

Wikipedia. That

5:26

was my disambiguation for anyone who's like,

5:28

I only know those Waltons and the

5:30

Waltons who own the Walmart company. He's

5:32

also not related to them as far

5:34

as I know. I appreciate it as someone

5:37

whose brain will stop and say, is that

5:39

related to Walmart? Okay.

5:43

Speaking of Whitley Streber's

5:46

written output, he's got over 40 books.

5:49

Over 40? Over 40 because I counted

5:52

41, but there were others that didn't

5:54

have covers and maybe other language translations.

5:56

This is a good reason. I didn't

5:58

get to the bottom of exactly. How

6:00

many? Over forty? But I feel confident saying he's

6:02

written. Okay, people pay. For

6:06

thirty years area around Forty

6:08

Three approved use of the

6:10

only. Has to do is sit down and explain

6:12

it be for forty five seconds no matter how hot

6:14

piece of media I have encountered. Is like I am

6:16

now over forty years old he says. Yes, yes

6:18

and will that yet. but just. Trip

6:20

In. Just like I often say with

6:22

L Ron Hubbard, you have the fiction

6:24

and be acknowledged fiction. Race Riot. Whitley

6:26

Strieber has written many i think successful

6:29

books that are science fiction, but then

6:31

he has other ones like Communion that

6:33

he says are based on his real

6:35

experiences. We talked about him on the

6:37

show before. Yeah, and just listeners.

6:39

You may have this binary and

6:41

your mind as like was true

6:44

or it's made up. Remember there's

6:46

that third category. Author means it

6:49

isn't by it. There are reasons

6:51

to think they're misled by it's

6:53

around narrative. Yeah, an internal coherence

6:56

is running street stories. Indeed,

6:58

Whitley Strieber was promoting a new

7:00

book that he's written. The

7:02

talk was named after as well.

7:05

called them. Yes, so I was

7:07

stoked to when I knew he was

7:09

coming back. Nine has so much a

7:11

Saxon for Whitley. Strieber. I wanted to

7:13

be listening to another target the same time

7:15

by Dell Big Trees and will talk about

7:18

that later. but one of the magical things

7:20

with the conference is that it's you. wait

7:22

around. They have this boost where they sell

7:24

D V D's so they always have someone

7:27

in the back of the room. I say

7:29

always They don't record everything that goes on.

7:31

They're not the Freestyle, they've got someone in

7:33

the back with a video camera and then

7:36

later on you can find these Dvds that

7:38

they quickly pushed out and I've seen these

7:40

like computer towers they have with like twelve.

7:42

Dvd writers and I wow, where are

7:44

those? They were right by the booth

7:47

on the Monday when I came back

7:49

to my more but I think those

7:51

are usually. I think they've gotten behind

7:53

the scenes and they're just pumping out

7:55

all these discs, slopping labels on them

7:57

sometimes. a sharpie reading it has to

7:59

be a monumental effort to quickly turn

8:01

all recordings into D V D's The

8:04

qualities not always great. someone with all

8:06

a camcorder at the back you can

8:08

get what you get. Yeah, I've bought

8:10

Dvds that are blank my oh you

8:12

have a okay are they just did

8:14

not successfully complete the process. I was.

8:16

Actually helping you paid sixty dollars. Have been

8:18

like that is that he has his senses blank.

8:21

So I the end were often trying to see

8:23

if we can find some of the talks that

8:25

we attended or ones that we really wanted to.

8:27

And it's like ten dollars per Dvd by if

8:29

you get six than it's only fifty bucks Fl

8:31

yeah are you may one hundred bucks more. Any

8:33

was bought a D V D's yeah that's what

8:35

I'm saying here. Absolutely. It's. At. Perfect way

8:38

to break our brains and make sure we buy every.

8:40

Single thing and then a few more. Yeah, and

8:42

there's always themes each year, just breaking away

8:44

from Whitley Strieber for a second. Guess I

8:46

noticed there was a lot of astrology this

8:48

year. picas, it's hear the Dragon and when

8:50

since we make a big deal out of

8:53

that and a lot of white language. Yes!

8:55

New new buzzword Late Lane.

8:57

I'm really excited for us to cover

8:59

a white language yeah, out interest of

9:02

just tease that it's speaking in tongues,

9:04

but for the alien crowd. Oh, is that

9:06

what it is? Spirituality crowd. Yeah

9:08

oh. It's like okay, colossal, they'll.

9:10

Yeah yeah oh how and why. It's

9:13

while there are some miles apart from

9:15

Under did you get to witness it?

9:17

There was one talk we're going to

9:19

go to and then we had the

9:21

last minute. Seems we work now though

9:23

you were going to a light language

9:25

talk I'm going to a different light

9:27

language talk and then we ended up

9:29

at his such as know exactly where

9:31

we ended up. Yeah I bad guys

9:34

he I'll have a lot has a

9:36

lot Additives daughter briefly summarize that. the

9:38

vibe guy. Yeah, yeah, the lived I survive

9:40

either. That's against his back to my best

9:42

friend. The cigarettes and I are happy

9:44

Birthday Classic. Are thick layer. Can you read this

9:46

far? Mean tell me. About. It or not that

9:49

I've and my a guess. oh I got

9:51

signed up for the texts from him and

9:53

alley and was fast and furious at first

9:55

sight. For women, calm down a bit as

9:57

I love that about that south. Anyway, Other

10:00

themes in Conscious Life, good question,

10:02

good question. They even had a

10:04

room called the rabbit hole where they

10:06

sent all the conspiracy theorists. Yes, I

10:08

felt like that was too on the nose. I know, I

10:10

almost felt like they would find that

10:13

maybe insulting or something. Oh, you're putting

10:15

us in the rabbit trail room downstairs?

10:17

Right, right. Off the beaten

10:19

path. Good luck getting

10:22

yourself out. Uh-huh. Yeah. We

10:24

did see more listeners at the show this year. Yep.

10:26

It's always fun. I saw 13, I think. Of

10:29

course, we show up so you don't have to, but you still

10:31

can. You can, you can, yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

10:33

there was a lot of DNA talk this

10:36

year, I think. Yes, yeah, that's

10:38

become DNA activation, cellular memory, various

10:40

sounds and meditations and things that

10:42

can affect and improve your DNA.

10:45

Lots of talk about trauma, but I

10:47

would say usually now more as a

10:50

secondary, like a supportive topic instead of

10:52

like that's the primary one. Yeah.

10:54

Okay. I got a healthy dose of

10:56

self-love. Well, good. It's

10:59

fascinating just to see themes that emerge and

11:02

I know soon we're going to be telling

11:04

you about contact in the desert we

11:07

attended and there was a lot about AI

11:09

there and I was surprised. Yes. There

11:11

were certainly some here, but I was surprised

11:13

that AI wasn't a bigger theme

11:17

as I had expected. Also,

11:19

I've been pulling all the talk titles together

11:21

in a text document and I'm running them

11:23

through a word cloud generator. Oh, smart. So

11:25

I'll show you hopefully next time we meet

11:28

to just... Oh, cool. And we'll be waited by

11:30

number of times. Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah,

11:32

cool. Just curious to see the visual

11:34

for that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm excited.

11:36

So, okay. Anyways, yeah, we were at

11:38

Conscious Life Expo and Kerry was here

11:40

in the room for the Whitley Strebber

11:43

talk titled Them about his new book.

11:45

I watched it many times on DVD

11:47

later. You watched it many times. I

11:49

did. Oh, wow. Okay. Thank you. At

11:51

least three. Okay. I watch,

11:54

but I like, I'm pausing every

11:56

10 seconds. So my

11:58

process is very dense. There's kind of

12:00

like the watch it and then the watch it and

12:02

take notes and then the watch it and clarify certain

12:04

things. What did he say here? Okay.

12:07

Yeah. So here's how it

12:09

was built in the program. Whitley does a

12:11

deep dive into the nature of individual communication

12:14

with the entities he calls the visitors and

12:16

explains why there is so much secrecy surrounding

12:18

their presence. This presentation is

12:21

based on his book, Them,

12:23

and the extraordinary revelations that

12:25

have been made in 2023

12:27

in congressional hearings and elsewhere

12:29

about their capabilities, their bodies

12:31

and our government's hidden struggle

12:33

to understand. Whitley Strieber

12:35

is the author of Communion, one of

12:37

the most iconic books in the literature

12:39

of the Unexplained and the best-selling nonfiction

12:42

book on UFO related subjects in history.

12:44

His most recent book about alien contact

12:47

is Them, published in 2023. In

12:51

2021, he published Jesus, A New Vision.

12:53

I'm curious about that one. Yeah, me too. And in 2022,

12:55

A New World. Everybody's

12:58

got a co-opt, Jesus. Christ-opt. Yep.

13:01

Both these books are follow-ons

13:04

to Communion that extend his

13:06

research beyond personal issues of

13:08

contact and into broader areas.

13:10

He is the author of Over 40.

13:14

Oh, I didn't know. Over

13:17

40 other books in proper use. I'm

13:20

glad that we converged on the same

13:22

description. Nope, the excuse goes for you

13:24

and not for him. Including

13:28

The Wolfen, The Hunger and

13:30

Superstorm, all as with Communion

13:32

have been made in two

13:34

films. Wait, all Over 40? The

13:37

ones that were just mentioned by names. No, the

13:39

including. Okay, I'm going to use some copy editing.

13:43

This whole catalog could use copy editing. Yeah,

13:45

fair. Again, to be fair, they've

13:47

brought a lot of people together with a

13:49

lot of wild descriptions of talks. Yeah.

13:53

It's quite an effort to get them all into that little

13:55

printed catalog. Oh, Lord. I mean, once you've

13:58

signed on to the whole operation. of

14:00

running this thing. You are

14:02

making some moral calls in

14:04

your, oh man, in your

14:06

daily life that I don't even want to think about. I

14:09

mean, we'll talk about, this was I think

14:11

one of our favorite moments at the conference

14:13

this year had to do with someone announcing

14:15

they were the Messiah. Yes. And

14:17

I know exactly who you mean. I was

14:19

a little surprised they allowed this Messiah to

14:22

come give a talk at the conference, considering

14:24

the waves he's been making outside of

14:27

the conference. Yeah, it's interesting. We've got

14:29

some good stories to tell. Anyways, they

14:31

mentioned in the little byline about him,

14:33

his research. And I think

14:36

in this talk, you're going to get a feel

14:38

for what qualifies as his

14:40

research. Yes, which I'm

14:42

legit excited about some of

14:44

the stuff I learned from

14:47

this talk about what he's

14:49

cataloging and where he's cataloging

14:51

it. Yeah. Again, we've talked about him on

14:53

the show before, but people who don't maybe

14:55

remember a lot about Whitley Streetbird, this doesn't

14:57

come up a ton in this talk. But

14:59

he also had a wife, Anne. It's

15:02

very sweet how he talks about her

15:04

and remembers her, obviously just

15:06

loved her with a great passion. And

15:09

he has kind of found ways to

15:11

sort of continue his communication with her.

15:13

Yeah, she co-writes books with him. And

15:16

we're not in the business of

15:18

diagnosing people, but it does seem

15:20

like he has some form of

15:22

maybe temporal lobe epilepsy, some sort

15:24

of psychosis, perhaps, where he does

15:26

see and feel and experience things.

15:28

And I believe that he does

15:30

experience these things. But

15:33

then he runs them through this kind

15:35

of understanding of the world based around

15:37

shadowy visitors to our planet. He

15:39

often thinks that Anne visits him in the form

15:41

of a white moth. So I always think of

15:43

that when I see a white moth. Anne's

15:46

visiting you as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

15:49

as we said in our last episode, apparently

15:51

when you're beyond the grave, you have the

15:53

ability to influence the flight patterns of various

15:55

insects. So She continues to help

15:57

him write his books. And I Think She- the

16:00

is kind of a hidden piece of this whole

16:02

story and a lot of ways and so come

16:04

up a lot. Here and Whitley

16:06

Strieber himself is a tall

16:08

white gentlemen. I he's wearing

16:11

spectacles. Holders. He's in his eighties

16:13

now. I'm just gonna guess. Early

16:15

seventies? Seventy eight? Oh late seventies?

16:17

Okay yeah, he has a very

16:19

like a very good speaking voice.

16:22

I'd listen to an audio book

16:24

read by him. Oh yeah, he

16:26

has a podcast called Dreamland. He's been

16:28

doing that and said it's in it's twenty

16:30

fifth year. Okay, Dad Dreamland pretty good

16:32

and like an ally. Impressive. Yeah,

16:35

Yeah, he has a great delivery. Very

16:37

thoughtful speaker as he's

16:39

building his sentences, making

16:42

about them and unleashing

16:44

them, and this very

16:46

controlled thoughtful manner. Most of

16:48

the the major talks at consciously Expo

16:50

like on the the primary schedule are

16:52

slated for an hour and a half

16:54

and then there's kind of this secondary

16:56

course of smaller lectures that are only

16:58

an hour long so they can be

17:00

sort of back to back or but

17:02

he was scheduled for the hour and

17:04

a half and the first ten minutes

17:06

were just tech problems. Yes, which

17:08

he interpreted as of

17:11

them fooling with him.

17:13

And which which is a primer. Bang Beds are

17:15

commenting we hear to. Only as whistleblower

17:17

type absolute joke if you're down in

17:19

the rabbit hole room or one of

17:22

his you are photogs they my jokingly

17:24

or they might seriously say that the

17:26

tech issues they are experiencing have to

17:28

do with interference really are because of

17:30

live expo the government is delaying your

17:32

talk with or aliens seven minutes of

17:34

scrambling this him but then you get

17:37

to give it was the end goal

17:39

were right right but he cleverly said

17:41

oh this happens around me all the

17:43

time I'm the reason why I think

17:45

he means that. We have three links. There's

17:47

tech support guys up here trying to get my

17:50

slides to your can. The audio. It's. It's

17:52

very hard to notice when you're the

17:54

common denominator. And guess who introduced him? I

17:57

know this is it. Allah sciences or so

17:59

and. These everywhere. How does he do it

18:01

and are now? what Are you talking about Him. I

18:03

should also say this was fifty dollars. A

18:05

while? Yeah, only all the prices went up

18:08

this year. Yeah, I guess it's right. there were

18:10

forty before, right? Yeah, I think it used

18:12

to be forty in advance and then like

18:14

forty forty five. it's you get waited too

18:16

long and this year was fifty. and then

18:18

if you're like mean you waited to the

18:21

last possible minute to buy your tickets, it

18:23

was sixty dollars lox all oh crazy up

18:25

little. While waiting in line for this

18:27

talk, there weren't very many of us

18:29

that there was a woman who saw

18:31

me from the Disclosure lunch to at

18:33

least talk. Oh, saw me be the

18:35

one brave enough to leave. The Disclosure

18:37

launched a black i'm hit and lately

18:39

on time so. She was. She's sitting

18:42

at your table now. Ah, cases, there

18:44

was a listener sitting at your table.

18:46

Our side of L O Two Oaxaca,

18:48

half of excellent with who noticed later

18:50

who wrote us later. Oh road

18:52

as later Who turbo? Oh okay,

18:54

Alice's sign them. Yeah, there were

18:57

two less. Their. Sale. The neighbors were

18:59

definitely acts with you. And do you want

19:01

to say yet? you are sitting at a

19:03

table Someone we've talked about? Yeah, yeah okay

19:05

whereas. Whitley was sitting at a difference a

19:08

box bad He got up to lead the

19:10

disclosure lunch to be like I have a

19:12

talk at se minutes after that I

19:14

just got up and anyway this other person

19:17

followed and she was saying that oh man

19:19

I said are you they quickly san and

19:21

she said it goes beyond that Now I

19:23

oh my gosh I just watched like everything.

19:26

Okay mermaid. Nine are read. Everything

19:28

is our and. I am largely here

19:30

at the conference because of with reserve

19:32

probably are so. She sat next

19:34

to me. she was a nice

19:37

and as he was fumbling for

19:39

the taxes like see this happens.

19:42

When. To get a narrative yes that thing are

19:44

holed into the narrative and job working. For her

19:46

cell Allen Seinfeld as he said got

19:48

up and was like i basically said

19:50

what you were just saying like hey,

19:52

we have a hero. This is a big

19:54

deal in the room. Yeah, he's an important

19:56

figure in this movement and don't really use.

19:59

Yep. oh. Something interesting

20:01

Allen said scan and nodded to

20:03

the existence of others around Consciously

20:05

Expo who make claims that he

20:07

allen is more skeptical of. yes,

20:09

but he feels like Whitley by

20:11

contrast is the real deal and

20:13

all that. I was like movie

20:15

thing. You know that for example,

20:17

yeah, you can't She can't say

20:19

that. That I'm like a lot

20:22

visitors exurbs. a moment later where

20:24

it feels like Alan recognizes something

20:26

birds, which leaves taking a little

20:28

too credulous. Oh.

20:31

Wait, To get us at Geico. Flag at

20:33

okay so Whitley begins and he

20:35

he tells us that we are

20:37

moving into Aquarius from Pisces. Good

20:40

doorways, Hitting that age of Aquarius who

20:42

I am. Had been singing about it since

20:44

the seventies but I guess to the finally

20:46

becoming we'll at. He said the

20:48

little says she's gonna end up

20:50

flopping around on dry land. Okay,

20:53

let's extend their Pisces metaphor. Why

20:55

not? exactly? And so I

20:57

think he was intimating that

20:59

during this time. Some.

21:02

We're gonna get more visitations maybe.

21:04

and some of those visitors are

21:06

predators that most of them are

21:08

at. Most of them are midwives

21:10

and doctors who intends to pull

21:13

this incense ensue A new world.

21:15

Keeps referring to this new world. This

21:17

is was pre saved by all of

21:19

these does it Haitians and right He

21:21

kept using at birth metaphor or for

21:24

us coming out to be kicking and

21:26

screaming into the light and trying to

21:28

figure out what we were in this

21:30

new reality and that there was this

21:32

quote he said with a lot of

21:34

gravitas. A new world is

21:37

you can take it. And. He

21:39

kept repeating that like a pastor's son

21:41

hangs quoting something from First Corinthians or

21:43

something a New World is. you can

21:45

take it. Kind of fleetingly. And

21:48

can we take. yes

21:51

he gets philosophical am now and then

21:53

where he'll remember all these weird little

21:55

abduction experiences he's not into from himself

21:57

and others is always leading back to

21:59

this big larger narrative about our souls

22:01

and this battle for our souls on

22:03

the planet and this new era that

22:05

we're going to be pulled into, hopefully

22:07

into the light of truth. He

22:11

also said this line, being born is

22:13

hard. Ask any baby, they'll tell you.

22:17

I guess with their cries. Okay,

22:21

he said that the son is our

22:24

father. I didn't know if he meant

22:26

S-O-N or S-U-N. I was

22:28

like, oh man, I'm eight minutes in and

22:30

I don't know what that son's father means. I

22:33

don't think I can clarify on that thought. But

22:35

he said we need to discover ourselves and

22:37

the aliens are here to help us discover

22:39

ourselves, which is really hard to do, because

22:42

every single one of us is in a

22:44

deep sleep and we

22:46

gotta wake up. That's another one of those

22:48

things he says with so much gravitas. We're

22:50

all in a deep sleep. We gotta

22:52

wake up. Oh wow, okay, thank

22:55

you, pastor. Yeah, I don't

22:57

know what to do with that, but

22:59

yes. I think the idea of them,

23:01

the book, is that he's collected stories

23:03

that came from readers of

23:06

communion, because for years people would write

23:08

him and he said that they sent

23:10

something like 250 to 300,000 letters. And

23:16

he just determined, I mean, there's

23:18

no physical way I can read these, so

23:20

what am I going to do with them?

23:22

But he says that his beloved wife, Anne,

23:24

and a good friend of hers, a friend

23:27

of theirs, Lori Barnes,

23:29

that they did the

23:31

Herculean job of reading these

23:33

letters, often responding to them

23:35

or bringing them selectively to

23:37

his attention, putting them in

23:39

careful filing. Cataloging them.

23:41

Yeah. Making this like their

23:44

life's work is this epic

23:46

Whitley Streber actual

23:48

contact archive. And

23:50

I mean, contact with his readers.

23:53

Right. So cool that she did this.

23:55

Thank you, Anne. I'll thank every white

23:57

moth that I see. Yeah. totally

24:00

want to see this archive and he has

24:02

given it to Rice University. Okay. We

24:04

got to go there. Do we know anybody at

24:06

Rice University? Oh, maybe. Well, let us know if

24:08

you're there and you can get us in. I'm

24:11

sure we could request, but yeah, he

24:14

referred to this as one of the most

24:16

important human documents. At first he was going

24:18

to say like, yeah, the most important. Then

24:20

he kind of caught himself. Well, you know,

24:22

there's like the Magna Carta or whatever, it's

24:25

one of the most important human documents

24:28

that they have created. All of these

24:30

letters that came in from people who

24:32

read communion said, this has happened to

24:34

me too. Let me tell you my story. And

24:36

he'll focus a lot on the face.

24:39

So a lot of these writers were

24:41

like that face, I've seen that face,

24:43

that specific face, that painting on the

24:45

front. Yeah. And he takes this as

24:48

confirmation without sort of realizing he's in

24:50

this echo chamber loop, right? Like we've

24:52

societally put the picture of the alien

24:54

in your head. And then the alien

24:56

picture is served up to you by

24:58

your mind. If

25:00

certain things happen during sleep or

25:03

whatever. And now that's what your

25:05

brain pulls and serves up to you. Yeah. The

25:08

causality gets lost in all of that.

25:10

Yeah. And also your sample is people

25:12

who have read your book and have

25:14

chosen to write you about it. But

25:16

going by those numbers, a lot of

25:18

people did. A lot of people. Understandable

25:20

that you would think, Hey, I'm sensing

25:22

a trend here. I'm going viral. Yeah.

25:24

Yeah. Absolutely. This is early going

25:26

viral and taking great meaning from

25:28

it, like Catherine Crick. Yeah. So

25:31

Laurie and catalog all these letters and they keep

25:33

them in a storage space in Texas. And

25:35

that's when he got Rice university involved

25:38

and another all there. And it also

25:40

has archives from Jacques Vallée and John

25:42

Mack. Other folks we've talked about

25:45

on the show, major figures in ufology.

25:47

And the archive is not just restricted to

25:49

scholars, which is good, but usually the case, but

25:51

yes, good. I don't remember what

25:53

this was apropos of, but around this

25:56

time, he was also talking about patents

25:58

that have been pulled out. from

26:01

alien technology and he specifically

26:03

named bodily implants. So I

26:05

assume like I don't know

26:07

replacement hips or some other

26:09

kind of... Or maybe those... what are

26:12

those new implants that they're doing

26:14

for like people who are paralyzed,

26:16

neuro... Oh yeah, I bet he would gladly label

26:18

any of those as taken

26:23

from alien technology. But the point of him saying

26:25

that was that there was this sort of meeting

26:27

that happened in 2008 where

26:30

they were going to sort of admit this

26:32

like this is where we got this technology

26:34

all of these various companies who are apparently

26:37

in collusion on this secret and

26:39

then they decided well wait then we'd lose our patents

26:41

so you know what let's keep it a secret. This

26:45

is the sort of aside that you'll get from

26:47

Whitley Streber without sourcing and

26:49

that would strain one's credulity.

26:52

Yeah, so his theory is like that

26:54

there are these these materials that were

26:56

taken from alien ships by

26:59

the government and then

27:01

given to companies to

27:04

patent and then

27:07

the US government

27:10

traded certain citizens to

27:12

the aliens in return

27:15

for the materials so that they

27:17

could patent them. So that's what he's talking about. Yeah,

27:20

he ties that up in a neat little

27:22

knot at the end and huh okay

27:25

let's accept that for now. Yeah, I

27:28

would have put a bit in that. Yeah, yeah, indeed.

27:31

Alright. Okay. So the next part of

27:33

the talk was all kind of organized

27:35

by a letter that someone had written

27:37

him that he thought was maybe exemplary

27:39

of a trend of types of letters

27:41

and then he would just sort of

27:43

expand on the story and give his

27:45

own connection to it. The first letter

27:47

was called Call of the Morlocks and

27:49

he wouldn't like read the letter to us but

27:51

he would give us sort of

27:54

his recounting of it and for those of

27:56

you who don't recognize Morlocks they are the

27:58

underground creatures in the um

28:00

hg well's book the time machine

28:03

oh i didn't know that okay they

28:05

lived underground and were scary okay

28:07

yeah um on whitley's x

28:10

account he tweeted

28:15

that that's the section

28:17

called call of the morlocks is

28:19

the creepiest part of the book

28:21

them and it features this letter

28:23

you're going to describe okay maybe when

28:25

people write something on x now that

28:27

we can't say tweeted maybe we can

28:29

say exuded sure

28:32

all right i'm gonna try to let's make

28:34

it happen like fetch so this

28:36

was the story of a psychologist and oh

28:38

my goodness when whitley street bird tells a

28:40

story he just leaves out all of these

28:42

important details that you really want and they're

28:44

like litters litters it with kind

28:46

of unnecessary information that too yeah but

28:49

then he gets to a point and you're like

28:51

wait how did you i just watched this three

28:53

times because i don't understand what you're saying yeah

28:55

you left out some really important details and then

28:57

as i was saying other times he has a very

28:59

controlled thoughtful way of communicating it's just sort of he

29:01

gets into this like scattered version where he kind of

29:03

has to pull it like eight or nine things that

29:05

he needs to tell you in order to communicate this

29:07

one point so he never gets central coherence all the

29:09

one point yeah yeah yeah i'll just

29:12

recount this as i had my

29:14

takeaway but he was talking about

29:16

a psychologist that he knows who

29:18

has just amazing vision he can

29:20

see the moons of jupiter with

29:23

his unaided eyes um can you i

29:25

don't i wouldn't be able to recognize the moons of

29:27

jupiter i'm like those are i'm suspicious of that

29:29

but i'm not suspicious

29:31

enough to say that's impossible so maybe

29:33

some people can do that but of

29:35

course he you're right i

29:38

didn't check but he

29:41

wants us to know just how

29:43

clear-sighted this psychologist is because uh

29:45

he obviously couldn't get things wrong he saw

29:48

a ufo over his head that looked

29:50

like a gigantic paper airplane and that's just

29:52

a fun mental image oh yeah of i

29:54

don't know like a 40 foot paper airplane

29:57

who knows and it also

29:59

sounds like an identified flying objects be

30:01

a paper airplane to post your head. Fair. The

30:03

more you tell us, the more identified it is. But

30:05

it was flying over this bright billboard, and so I

30:07

think he like got out of his car or something

30:09

because he saw this thing. And

30:12

there was a group of people standing

30:14

under the craft near the billboard. Doing

30:17

what you're doing, looking at it. Yeah, exactly.

30:20

But as he gets closer, they're like in

30:22

a circle, and it seems like they're doing

30:24

something that it doesn't sound like they're being

30:26

like pulled up into the craft. Sending

30:28

off a kite or something like that. Your

30:31

guess is as good as mine. But this is where it's

30:33

like, okay, I need more details, Whitley. But

30:36

as he approaches this group, one

30:38

of them, who's described as a dwarf, I

30:40

think maybe an ugly dwarf? I don't know.

30:43

Like he had some description of this

30:45

thoroughly short character who turns to him

30:47

and says, get out of here. And

30:50

so the psychologist does that. Then

30:53

years later, the psychologist, recalling this event,

30:55

says, you know what? I think that

30:57

dwarf was one of the gray aliens

31:00

that you described. Ah,

31:02

yes. That's the story. Oh, I'm

31:04

so glad you caught the story in this one.

31:07

What do I do with that? He says so much

31:09

that I missed this. The pieces don't

31:11

go together. Yeah, it's really hard

31:13

to follow. I think I did better on other ones. But

31:15

yeah. He's just missing the

31:17

connective fabric to answer

31:19

the obvious questions that arise from this. Like, wait,

31:21

was the aircraft still like moving? Did it stop

31:23

over the billboard? Why is the billboard important? Where's

31:25

the light source in all of this? Maybe just

31:28

show us the letter. Were they in the middle

31:30

of the road? How many people were there? How

31:32

many people were there? Somebody

31:34

questions. He has the whole time. He has

31:36

on the screen these titles. So

31:39

during that story, Ross was just telling, Call

31:41

of the Morlocks is just up on the

31:43

screen behind him. You have a

31:45

screen. You have slides. You

31:47

have Rice University archival students willing

31:49

to do work for you. Where

31:52

are the letters? Put them

31:54

on the screen. Yeah, great

31:57

idea. And You might be asking,

31:59

well, why not ask him to go? clarify during

32:01

Mcewen a how many cues whereas during the queue

32:03

and I. I would say zero. That

32:05

I would say that there is one person

32:07

present. I'm normally know a lot. Yes

32:09

oh man wait till I tell

32:11

you about the difficulty I had

32:13

asking a question during another you

32:15

fo time. So the various struggle

32:17

in this environment the next or

32:19

the other letter or section was

32:21

titled were hit the as time

32:23

go. And. Funny enough, as he

32:26

was telling the story he told

32:28

his own story of missing time

32:30

yet which is as you may

32:32

all recognize a regular feature of

32:34

the alien mythos that sometimes you

32:36

may be won't see them but

32:38

you'll experience missing time like wait

32:41

a second I just missed out

32:43

on an hour. What happens and

32:45

then later on may be through

32:47

hypnosis you figure out the you

32:49

got abducted, etc. One problem with

32:51

this is there's no standardization between what

32:53

do people. Think. It's missing time.

32:55

What counts is it when you walk

32:58

into a room and you're suddenly like

33:00

lima, hear that missing time. Yeah, well,

33:02

I would suspect that's part of

33:04

the answer of what's actually happening

33:06

when people realize, wait a second

33:08

I can driving for two hours

33:10

and I don't remember the last

33:12

half hour or you might have

33:14

just been kind of zombie functioning.

33:16

Yeah, without involving your memory process,

33:18

memory. Is so tied to attention? Not

33:20

were you doing you know if you

33:22

were say dreaming if you were in

33:25

sound like completely self secluded bubble me

33:27

and know reference outside world yeah you

33:29

didn't throw is happening as he walks

33:31

through your house to go get said.

33:33

they're gonna feel like missing time as our

33:35

but as he was telling his on missing

33:37

time story he was saying that he had

33:39

had lunch with the any see hand who's

33:41

actually the speaker at that talk that i

33:43

was telling you about whereas trying to raise

33:45

my hand not getting called months anyways he

33:47

said the after that once he took a

33:50

flight and he went to get his luggage

33:52

and so is waiting around for a long

33:54

time and there's just this one piece of

33:56

luggage all by itself there for a long

33:58

time and finally he as somebody And

34:00

they say that was there for like 45

34:02

minutes before you arrived and he's like, what

34:05

happened to that 45 minutes missing time

34:07

So yeah, his his understanding is

34:10

that his luggage arrived well before

34:12

him before like the plane

34:14

even Landed and so the

34:16

only explanation here is missing time

34:19

and not kind of forgetting what he was doing as he was ambling

34:21

through the airport Yeah Or that

34:23

person was mistaken it hadn't been there 45

34:25

minutes had been there two minutes and he

34:27

was there before everyone as he thought he

34:29

should be you have to consider these

34:31

options because Somebody telling

34:34

you the wrong information Is

34:37

more likely than the laws of physics

34:39

being broken? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so he also

34:41

asked us how many of us had had

34:44

a missing time Experience and so I was

34:46

like sure yeah had that feeling Broadly

34:49

defined sure he said okay a few of

34:51

you. Yeah, so he said he lost seven

34:53

minutes recently when he went out to dinner

34:55

He lost seven minutes while leaving his house

34:57

He has no idea what happened there and

34:59

then he had a letter from a woman

35:01

who was Vacuuming alone when she looked up

35:03

and there was a gray alien Presumably

35:06

just in her living room and she

35:08

wrote later recognized the face on the

35:10

cover of communion and saw dwarf figures

35:13

Okay, so she was missing time, but

35:16

hypnosis didn't work. She didn't actually recall

35:18

any alien stuff I feel like the

35:20

short alien seemed to be kind of

35:22

exclusive to Whitley at least he talks

35:24

about them more and he has like a blue

35:27

dwarf There's some kind of

35:29

blue short aliens he regularly talks about thing

35:31

Yeah, but he said she was horrified

35:34

and that gives you an idea of

35:36

just how easily they can penetrate into

35:38

our world There's no gateway. They can

35:40

walk into your life any damn time.

35:43

Mm-hmm. I mean, it really does sound

35:45

scary Yeah, absolutely There's no

35:47

defense against that and he

35:49

said that also you may feel Telepathy

35:51

suddenly and not really realized that you had

35:53

that ability but oh my gosh I can

35:55

understand this alien, but he's not opening his

35:58

mouth you interpret that as telepathy And then

36:00

you think I didn't know I could do that. Amazing.

36:02

Oh yeah, and then he ended that

36:04

story with this line. He said, I'm gonna

36:06

take what I want and the rest of

36:08

it can just go to hell. And

36:11

then there's this smattering of confused applause.

36:14

You're all like, well I can tell it

36:16

was a clap line. Yeah, he

36:18

loves to make these just

36:21

grandiloquent, large proclamations every now

36:23

and then, every 10 minutes

36:26

or so. I gotta say something profound

36:28

and memorable. And I think he's feeling

36:30

it too. Uh-huh. When it just comes out

36:32

as this just sort of

36:34

imprecise emotionality. Yeah, I think

36:37

right in the same time he also

36:39

said, and this leads to a bigger

36:41

question then, what is time? The question

36:43

is, who are we? All

36:46

right, yeah. Who are we? I

36:48

missed that one. Great question. I mean wait, what was

36:50

the smaller question? What is time? Yeah, because you're

36:52

talking about what is time. And then even better,

36:54

who are we? These stories make us ask what

36:57

is the nature of time, but more than that,

36:59

who are we? Okay. But

37:02

more than that, what is friendship? But

37:04

more than that, is government anything?

37:07

Ha ha ha ha. Goodness.

37:10

Yeah, these are the questions one asks themselves.

37:12

Yeah, these are the questions. Okay, so the

37:14

next letter was evil from above. Yes,

37:17

this is a letter about a possession

37:19

event. That's the phrase he used. Yeah.

37:21

A possession event. So this musician came

37:24

home, I guess maybe from

37:26

tour, and lays down and his

37:28

head explodes. I've heard of exploding

37:30

head syndrome, but I

37:32

guess he said this wasn't that. Yeah, so

37:34

there is like a phenomenon where you lay

37:36

down and you hear like a bang or

37:38

something in your head. I don't know why

37:41

Whitley is discounting that explanation because although he

37:43

said his head exploded, he went on to

37:45

write a letter. I don't

37:47

think his head exploded. Not literally. So you

37:49

came up with a different theory before Whitley

37:52

and I'm missing why you dropped it. Ha

37:54

ha ha. So Whitley

37:56

thinks at first that it's

37:58

exploding head syndrome, but. He discovers

38:00

that it can't because he

38:02

also sensed an evil entity

38:04

trying to enter his body

38:06

and replace him when he

38:08

heard the bang noise. The

38:11

feeling one can have. He

38:14

felt his soul being dragged

38:16

and dragged and heard a

38:18

thrumming sound. I feel a

38:20

connection between Whitley and Linda Moulton Howe

38:22

and that I feel like their strongest

38:24

form of evidence is the anecdote that's

38:27

just interesting to them. Like, oh, that

38:29

presents a little puzzle piece. And where

38:31

do I fit that in my overall

38:34

narrative? Must be true because this is

38:36

interesting and I want to tinker with

38:38

it. Yes. High pattern seeking. Yeah.

38:40

Sure. Which I think you and I relate

38:42

to. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. But it just

38:45

seems like he'll, he'll say some of the

38:47

right things sometimes where he's like, well, I

38:49

don't want to say this without evidence. He'll

38:51

make these little comments that make you think

38:53

he cares about the right things, but then

38:55

he'll proceed to say something that is pure

38:57

speculation as far as I can tell. Yeah.

38:59

I mean, I think he's limited the idea of

39:02

evidence to things he can hold in his hands.

39:05

So, you know, if a letter validates

39:07

another letter, wow, that's two pieces of

39:09

verification right there, but it's ignoring this

39:11

huge context of your culture and the

39:13

internet. Yeah. And other

39:16

credible explanations for these things that

39:18

don't blow up our understanding of

39:20

how the world works. Yeah. Somewhere

39:23

around here, he also had this little

39:26

aside about how great the day of

39:28

disclosure is going to be. And

39:30

then he says that it's not like they're

39:32

going to land on the proverbial White House

39:34

lawn, but then he catches himself and he

39:37

says, well, you know what, actually, I know,

39:39

I know them well enough that they have

39:41

a sense of humor and they will actually land

39:43

on the White House lawn. Oh,

39:45

wow. Just to make that common

39:47

human phrase literal. Oh, goodness. Okay.

39:50

So I wanted to return to that possession

39:52

event for a second. Yeah. So that writer

39:54

said that his soul was dragged and dragged

39:57

and the thrumming sound went on for two

39:59

hours. And then Dawn came. Sounds

40:01

like a horrible migraine. Oh yeah!

40:04

And the sound begins to drift away, and

40:06

they're left shaken but still together, because he

40:08

and his wife kind of went through this

40:10

together, but it's not clear what she was

40:13

actually experiencing. So like,

40:15

that's so fascinating. What a fascinating letter. I

40:17

want to see it too. I'm glad you

40:19

cataloged this, but your explanation for it is

40:21

so different from mine. Indeed. And

40:23

Whitley uses this to introduce

40:25

a concept that he'll repeat a couple

40:28

more times when the guy was talking

40:30

about his soul being dragged down. Whitley

40:32

has this, and I'm guessing his Jesus

40:34

book maybe is

40:36

about this theme. He has this

40:39

explanation of our souls and how

40:41

if we are surrounded by enough

40:43

fear and bad decisions, our

40:45

souls will get heavier, and that will

40:48

drag them down to what we would

40:50

traditionally call hell. But if

40:52

we think on the right things, if we do

40:54

good deeds, if we are surrounded by happiness

40:57

and joy and all the other things that

40:59

we would agree are good, that we will

41:01

have lighter souls, and they can't be dragged

41:03

down, and they will float up to the

41:06

top. So that seems to be kind of

41:08

this little metaphor of weight that he has

41:10

for our souls. Boy, I can

41:12

see why this makes sense with someone

41:15

with the kind of tunnel vision that

41:17

Whitley has, because he has this immense capacity

41:20

to just be like, I am looking only

41:22

at the thing in front of me, and

41:24

I'm comparing it to this other data point

41:26

and the hell to everything else. You have

41:28

that. All the other details that do not corroborate

41:30

this story can go to hell. But

41:33

also, that is the phenotype that

41:35

makes a great scientist, if you

41:37

can get it actually corralled. So

41:41

I am like seeing some, I'm

41:43

watching this and I'm just like,

41:45

Whitley, you're so close to something

41:47

so glorious. Yes. Something I think

41:50

about often is that both science

41:52

and superstition are driven by our

41:54

proclivity to see patterns. It's

41:56

just Science introduces some controls to help us

41:58

weed out things that aren't. Real patterns.

42:00

Yeah, and look at even more

42:02

bigger patterns that you wouldn't have

42:05

thought because you're specializing in some

42:07

other feel. Yeah, I think we're just

42:09

stopping a little short of those corrective measure.

42:11

Yeah, Yeah, exactly which is why we

42:13

at least you when I disguise

42:15

himself for like five hours so

42:17

maybe things and on the plane

42:19

every single one. Such a menu

42:21

and I can go on tour

42:23

and you like a two person

42:25

live show about my to have

42:27

this crazy archives you have and

42:29

what every single thing could mean

42:31

that seems to be amazing. Let's

42:33

hit the road weasley and carry

42:35

as lucky surf. Always

42:38

be in the front runner. I'm

42:40

trying to think what the massive

42:42

would be between Dreamland and Oh

42:44

no Dream know? Yeah

42:48

I guess allegory of people of follow me

42:50

to during know. Me I

42:52

zero and believe Disney to be with

42:54

me and Whitley through her and is

42:57

nonstop order okay then and then in

42:59

and said school. We can write that

43:01

forty something of book in collaboration. In.

43:05

Fact: when. You.

43:07

And Whitley and I joined powers. Were.

43:09

Gonna need a website? I have demands

43:11

here for gonna have a website with where

43:13

it leads. Yes, it needs to have an

43:16

online store with the suite of integrated

43:18

features. Who? Okay, where homeowner I'm more demands.

43:20

Also it needs have useful guides that

43:22

help maximize prominent among search results. Reading is

43:24

and ah I'd like to have extensions

43:26

are to connect my store with that A

43:29

third party tools to extend the point

43:31

of now have enough. Okay someone's got better

43:33

than Am ready them regatta extend the

43:35

functionality Also you'd be great if if it

43:37

had like a fluid engine. Dad's maybe

43:39

like a next generation. Web Design System

43:41

you. Want me to advance a website design

43:43

system for you in you what may call

43:46

it fluid and said. I mean it could

43:48

be called whatever, but it needs other functionality

43:50

or you know you don't need to develop.

43:52

it may be it already exists out there.

43:54

Mister Potter can your rider is. Really?

43:57

intense these days and

43:59

now We can give you

44:01

everything you desire only blue M&Ms. Yes,

44:04

I just remembered

44:06

about Squarespace which will

44:09

suit every need that you

44:11

just mentioned and I just

44:13

wrote down Really? Yes, Squarespace.

44:16

It's a website making website.

44:19

Oh my goodness. No blue M&Ms though,

44:21

right? Oh, no, you would never. Squarespace,

44:23

of course. Of course. Oh my goodness.

44:26

They have all those features that I

44:28

just mentioned And they have

44:30

beautiful templates. They really do and it's one.

44:32

I mean I use it It's one of

44:34

the best most reliable website builders. Yeah, you're

44:37

real about this people and it's all in

44:39

one You know, you don't need to download special

44:41

software. It doesn't matter what computer you're on at

44:43

the moment Maybe you're off at the you know,

44:45

your hotel and you just have your your iPad

44:47

Well, guess what you can log in and you've

44:50

got a tool to build your brand grow your

44:52

business online You stand out with a beautiful website

44:54

So maybe you put up the letters

44:56

that people write to you about their

44:58

alien Experiences and you have beautiful visuals

45:00

and you explain what each thing could

45:02

mean That website could house

45:04

one of the most important documents in the

45:07

history of mankind Three, come

45:09

on that could be you Whitley So

45:12

if you want to do that or just make a

45:14

normal website for some other thing that's in your life

45:16

Yeah, insert good website idea

45:18

here. That's us blowing out the

45:20

context Like we won't you

45:23

can you can head to squarespace.com slash.

45:25

Oh, no Oh HNO

45:27

for a free trial and then when you're

45:29

ready to launch you use the offer code.

45:31

Oh, no And what will happen Carrie you'll

45:34

save 10% off your first purchase

45:36

of a website or domain Squarespace

45:39

it lives in the high information zone Have

45:42

you ever wanted to know the sad lore behind talking

45:44

to his love of birthday parties or

45:47

I said any morning through is it for cartoons? Or

45:49

have you wanted to know how beloved virtual

45:51

pet site Neopets fell into the hands of

45:54

Scientologists or our former

45:56

Mattel employee? Managed to grow Sega into a

45:58

video game powerhouse Join us,

46:00

host Austin and Brenda, and learn all of

46:02

these things and more at secret histories

46:04

of nerd industry now on maximum

46:07

fun. Okay,

46:12

so the next letter title, these all pop

46:14

up on screen as he's talking, so the

46:17

next title is A New You. A New

46:19

You. So this one starts with

46:21

a little girl who telepathically wakes up

46:24

in a UFO and

46:26

is told that they won't harm her. And

46:28

then, then Whitley interrupts himself and

46:30

is like, who remembers Mars Attacks?

46:33

I remember Mars Attacks. I never saw it.

46:35

Oh yeah, one of the joys to me

46:37

of being a parent is that I get

46:39

to play movies for my son and get

46:42

his reactions and kind of relive them through

46:44

his eyes. And Mars Attacks was one of

46:46

those. Yeah. And the point that Whitley is

46:48

referring to is that these aliens go around

46:51

with flamethrowers killing people, but the whole time

46:53

they keep saying, we are not here to

46:55

harm you. We are not here to harm

46:58

you while they are obviously harming. That's

47:00

basically what they were doing. Was it

47:02

telepathic that they're saying it? Uh,

47:04

no, I think they had like an actual focal

47:07

system. Well, it's funny because whenever

47:09

I hear that, like these UFO people do it

47:11

all the time, they say it's kind of like

47:13

in the matrix. And I'll think, well, do

47:16

you think it traveled to you from the

47:18

matrix? So when I hear

47:20

it's kind of like Mars Attacks, I'm like, well, maybe

47:22

this little girl got it from Mars Attacks.

47:24

Right. Can you predate this

47:26

before Mars Attacks? Yes,

47:29

exactly. It might not be like, Mars

47:31

Attacks might not be like it. It

47:33

might be like Mars Attacks. Exactly. That's

47:36

the entire, the whole talk listening

47:38

to Whitley's Dreamer is that feeling

47:40

is like, you explained it. I

47:42

mean, you explained it away. Okay.

47:44

So we keep saying that we need to

47:46

give a talk at Conscious Life Expo. I

47:49

need to start taking notes on like themes

47:51

to cover, like just sort of basic skepticism.

47:53

So I'm just going to write here, order

47:56

of causality. We just need to think of

47:58

like general concepts that we need. need to

48:00

get across in this talk. Yeah, okay. Yeah,

48:03

I already have ideas. Okay, cool. A new

48:05

you. So what's

48:07

actually happening here? Whitley has the answer. Yeah,

48:09

yeah, they've been abducting her and doing what?

48:12

Getting biosamples. So biosamples have

48:14

been taken for years. This

48:17

is an odd detail. Scraping the skin

48:20

from the bottom of her feet. Oh,

48:22

yuck, okay. And her hair. And then

48:24

one of my favorite Whitley quotes, it's

48:27

been taken from me. I

48:30

know for a fact it's been taken

48:32

from me, yeah. Okay. Cover

48:35

my face with what I'm like, I know

48:37

every person has a wet dream. Right.

48:39

Don't announce your wet dream to me.

48:43

Is this a dreamer? We know what his are

48:45

like. Yeah, but he'll just announce

48:47

these sorts of things. Like he knows

48:49

for a fact that his semen has

48:51

been taken by the aliens. Yeah. You

48:53

do? I'd love to know

48:55

more. What I, I don't know. Come on,

48:58

buddy. No, you don't.

49:00

So because of this, he's convinced

49:02

that they are making human clones.

49:04

It's the kind of thing he'll just throw out there and

49:06

you'll be like, well, why are you convinced? Like how

49:09

did you get from A to B? Cause

49:11

that's a big jump from A to B.

49:13

Right, and you want me to follow you.

49:15

So show your work. But after introducing

49:17

this whole idea that they are reproducing humans,

49:20

he says this is real, this has happened.

49:22

Wow, that's a bold proclamation. And he made

49:24

a really good point here actually that I

49:27

liked because he had us all sort of

49:29

do the thought exercise of what if we

49:31

were the aliens? We were visiting another planet,

49:33

what would we do? Well, you'd have

49:35

a bunch of psychologists telling you don't let

49:38

them see you because that's gonna mess

49:40

with their path of technology and development,

49:42

you know, the whole prime directive idea

49:44

from Star Trek. But we

49:46

would also want to be collecting samples. So we

49:49

probably would grab them every now and then, pull

49:51

them off the face of the planet and do things

49:53

to them. And I really liked that he was thinking

49:55

that way cause I think that's important to

49:58

ask, okay, what would we do? if

50:00

we had the technology to go visit

50:02

other planets. So I like that he

50:05

was thinking that, but he had made

50:07

this kind of realization about how aliens

50:09

had seen that we had already decided

50:11

when we captured them in the 50s

50:13

that we weren't going

50:16

to treat them like ourselves. We were going

50:18

to prod them and torture them with the

50:20

alien bodies we recovered. So then what did

50:22

they do starting in the 60s? They started

50:24

abducting us. Right, so they'd seen like this

50:27

is the con... The feelings mutual. Yeah. We

50:29

are enemies now. Yeah, this is how you

50:31

treat us. Well, Betty and Barney Hill, we're gonna

50:33

abduct you. Right. Poke and prod you and and

50:35

disseminate you. He said it, so if you

50:38

turn it around and we're the aliens it all

50:40

makes great sense. If you don't assume that the

50:42

beings that you're dealing with have rights. This

50:44

reminded me of Stephen Hawking kind of made

50:46

this argument that like if we're really worried

50:49

about the aliens coming, yeah, they

50:51

would probably treat us roughly the way we

50:53

treat non-human animals, which is as not worthy

50:55

of the same rights as humans. Yeah,

50:57

and I think he used the

50:59

example as well of like people

51:01

from the old world first setting

51:03

foot on the shores of the

51:06

New World and spreading disease, killing

51:08

people just without compunction. But

51:10

I think there's also the argument

51:12

about once we get to the point where

51:14

we are a space-faring race, then at that

51:17

point you've learned to work collaboratively. You might

51:19

have a few more voices hopefully speaking about

51:21

not treating people like we have in the

51:23

past. I don't know, I didn't buy the

51:26

Stephen Hawking argument. Oh, interesting. I've always found

51:28

that not persuasive. I've always been like, yeah,

51:30

of course, we'd whoever smeared us treats everyone

51:32

like shit. Okay, yeah, I don't

51:34

necessarily think that because I think if

51:36

we found slime molds on other planets

51:39

we'd be so excited. We found

51:41

dolphins we'd be so excited and I

51:43

don't think it would immediately be like

51:45

the the whaling ships of the 1800s,

51:47

you know, where we'd suddenly just start

51:50

finding ways to monetize them and I'm talking myself out

51:52

of the idea so I'll stop. Okay,

51:56

so that's a new you. Next

51:58

was visitors in the trees. which

52:00

I think we're about excited about

52:02

because Mike Kleland, a

52:06

Ono Ross and Kerry, former interviewee and

52:09

the long guy, has

52:11

been cataloging this himself, people who

52:13

have visions of owls, in

52:15

particular, outside their windows right when

52:18

they also had a UFO adjacent

52:20

experience. So he says, visitors

52:22

in the trees, I'm like, here we go. So

52:25

this story was a letter from a family with

52:27

three kids, a mom and a

52:29

dad. The mom notices lights in the

52:31

driveway, but they go

52:34

away so it's no big deal. I'm

52:36

so eager to hear your retelling of this because it

52:38

was such a badly told story. But yeah, keep going.

52:41

Then she sees someone in a red

52:43

windbreaker go in their barn. Yeah, a

52:45

woman is walking into their barn with a red

52:47

windbreaker. Okay, nothing to do with aliens

52:49

so far. And then she jumps

52:51

off the roof of the barn and

52:53

into the trees. So

52:56

then the writer of the letter asked her daughter

52:59

to check on the barn, but

53:05

no one's in the barn. The mom

53:07

goes to the grocery store. She comes

53:09

home. The family's in the front yard.

53:11

And there are funny little people in

53:13

the trees. And she

53:15

goes out there with her kids and they can see

53:17

these little beings in the trees and

53:19

they don't know what they are.

53:22

I need so much more than I'm getting from this

53:24

story. But then he continues to ramble

53:26

on with too much detail about the

53:28

minutia of this story without, again,

53:31

any of the surrounding context. What's

53:34

the bigger picture happening for this family?

53:36

Yeah, and as he tells the next

53:38

part of the story, you're like, wait,

53:40

where's the connective fiber? What happened? How

53:42

did we get to the... Because next,

53:44

you have the mom going into the

53:46

barn and now she sees a human-like

53:48

figure in a green jacket and it's

53:50

filming her. Why? What does it

53:52

look like? Why is it human-like? Just slap

53:54

that letter on the screen, my buddy. Slap

53:57

that letter on the screen. Yeah, let us see it at least.

53:59

He says... At this point, she's very perplexed,

54:01

but she has been shown these things

54:04

step by step. And when he said

54:06

that, I was like, shown these things.

54:08

Is this hypnosis? Are

54:10

we talking about hypnosis? Quite possibly. But

54:13

yeah, another sighting was the mom.

54:15

Again, the mom is having most

54:17

of the sightings here. She's a

54:20

woman-like figure wearing this shiny

54:22

necklace and

54:24

she has beads on her forehead, but then

54:26

she turns into an alien being. She no

54:28

longer looks human-like, but she's wearing the same

54:31

regalia. And I'm just listening to all this

54:33

kind of like, okay, none of this sounds

54:35

real or consistent with any other alien account

54:37

that we have. What are we supposed to

54:39

do with this? Right, so many

54:41

contradictions. But again, just the pieces

54:44

that are interesting are enough to

54:46

validate the whole, and he

54:48

takes those and presents them as real. Who

54:50

is saying so many contradictions? Was that Linda

54:52

Moltenau? Kind of strange

54:54

contradictions. Yeah, kind of like saying

54:56

the quiet part out loud. So

54:59

strange, and that's all we need to do is just

55:01

acknowledge that it's strange. You

55:04

did have an interesting takeaway though about

55:06

all of these weird things that the

55:08

mom was saying. He thought that this

55:10

was indicative of this program that the

55:13

aliens had to measure how quickly we

55:15

could adapt to shocking things happening to

55:17

us. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah,

55:19

that the aliens were running this little experiment. Oh,

55:21

if I change- On like panic tolerance. Yeah, if

55:23

I change right in front of their eyes, what

55:25

did they do? Interesting, let me write

55:27

that in my notebook or capture it on my- Oh, very

55:30

many strategic goals. CIA,

55:32

MKUltra, that kind of, okay. That

55:34

was the narrative. Okay, so in another story-

55:36

And he promised us this would be the

55:38

last story. We'll see. This

55:41

one is about a little girl being abducted with

55:43

her mom in the car. 1968 in Texas.

55:47

Oh, thank you. Daughter screams, I

55:49

hate you mommy. The mom doesn't

55:51

understand that. It turns out

55:53

the daughter has an incurable cancer of

55:56

the nervous system which kills her. Then

55:59

a friend- Houston calls during

56:01

this mother's grief and says, I

56:03

have to tell you something. There

56:05

was an extra piece there in between the

56:08

girl telling her mom that she hated her

56:10

and the introduction. So they were driven off

56:12

the road while they were on the road.

56:15

And maybe this was recovered later,

56:17

but they were abducted into the ship and

56:19

they were separated. And this

56:21

is where the mom learned that

56:23

the aliens were taking her because

56:26

of their soul lineage, because

56:28

of their family, because of their inheritance,

56:30

they were of interest to these aliens

56:32

and they were abducted. And

56:36

then once they were let back on the

56:38

earth, that's when the daughter then said, I

56:40

hate you mommy, because she

56:43

was upset from this whole experience of being abducted.

56:45

I see. See, I bet I wrote this

56:47

down this way because I was thinking, what

56:49

do we know actually happened? It sounds like

56:51

a mom and a daughter were driving in

56:53

a car and then the daughter inexplicably shouted,

56:55

I hate you mommy. Oh, I re listened

56:57

to this so many times because it was

56:59

so confusing. So the reason I think that

57:02

it's like that is because then there's a

57:04

third character, the woman, the

57:06

legally blind woman who calls and

57:09

says, I got a message from

57:11

your dead daughter who died recently.

57:13

Yes. And then I think introduces

57:15

the alien narrative to explain. Oh,

57:18

maybe because somehow they'd incorporated

57:20

that into the timeline, but

57:23

of the original story. But

57:26

the one thing I was trying to get

57:28

clarification for and I couldn't was were the

57:30

aliens trying to heal the daughter? Because it

57:32

sounds like maybe that's why they had pulled

57:34

her up, but they were unsuccessful. Maybe

57:37

because the daughter did die. Oh, yeah.

57:39

But then you have this weird third

57:41

party who received the message from

57:43

the daughter telling the mom,

57:45

actually, she loves you and she'll love

57:48

you always, which counteracts the I hate

57:50

you mommy. Yeah, right. Okay. What do

57:52

we do with this? The third

57:54

party is legally blind, but she

57:57

drives to us to deliver the

57:59

news. Something's

58:04

wrong with this story. I need

58:06

more info. I guess

58:08

I have to read them. Yeah. I

58:10

think also Whitley has that pronoun

58:12

confusion problem. We're going to introduce

58:14

like five or six characters, give

58:16

us all their genders, and then just say, He-she, He-she, He-she,

58:19

He-she. And I'm like, witch! Yeah,

58:22

absolutely. And

58:24

then they were finding out that, but

58:26

who's saying? Just use their whole name,

58:28

please just say their name. Yeah, repeat

58:30

the name. And speaking of

58:32

his big takeaways. Yeah. For

58:34

this story, the takeaway, I guess,

58:37

from the daughter speaking from Beyond the Grave

58:39

is that, the new reality that we are

58:41

moving into, this new world, if you can

58:43

take it, will be so much bigger. And

58:46

you're all living these small lives now. But

58:48

when we emerge from the birth canal

58:51

into this new world, we will see with so

58:53

much more light. The blinders will come

58:55

off. Amazing. Which

58:57

is so funny for someone with such tremendous tunnel

59:00

vision to talk about the blinders coming off. Oh,

59:02

yeah. Oh, Whitley. I

59:04

know, I know, but I want to, I see it so

59:06

clearly. We should be friends.

59:09

This wasn't like a chapter from the

59:11

book, but then he gets into this

59:13

other story. It's just another weird transition.

59:15

Like, why are we talking about this

59:17

now? Yes, yeah, I wrote down stuff

59:19

about Roswell. Okay, yeah. So he was

59:21

talking about experiments that were being done

59:23

right after World War II, with V-2

59:25

rockets being tested at White Sands. He

59:28

was saying that the aliens would just

59:30

shoot them down. And I was like,

59:32

okay, I need more info. Because he's

59:34

saying they were nervous about us combining

59:36

rockets with nuclear warheads. But were

59:39

the tests with live nuclear warheads? Somehow

59:42

I doubt that, at least from the way he told the story. And

59:45

eventually we did have that technology,

59:47

so they didn't really stop us.

59:50

But his purpose in telling the story

59:52

about aliens shooting down test flights

59:54

of V-2 rockets at White Sands

59:57

was to illustrate the point that

59:59

sometimes... the aliens rather than like

1:00:01

communicating with you than sitting down with

1:00:03

the president saying hey We don't like that

1:00:06

you're doing this. Can you please cut

1:00:08

it out? It's dangerous for your civilization they'll

1:00:10

just jump in and blow things up and

1:00:13

Whitley was saying I know this is

1:00:15

true because that's what they do to

1:00:18

me because I'll be trying to Accomplish

1:00:21

something maybe I'm trying to meditate and all

1:00:23

of a sudden. I'll hear like a loud

1:00:25

explosion Explicable explosion. Yeah,

1:00:27

he doesn't say that it's

1:00:29

actually like something exploding just that he

1:00:32

hears that which again makes me think of

1:00:34

Experiences people describe when they have something like

1:00:36

temporal lobe epilepsy like I heard a loud

1:00:38

explosion It was just as far as we

1:00:41

can tell generated inside my head, which we

1:00:43

should mention He claims he was tested for and

1:00:45

passed the test. That's part of the okay part

1:00:47

of his war. Yeah, no comment Oh, my that's

1:00:49

true. That's what he says. He entertains it and

1:00:51

dismisses it But he says

1:00:54

that so regularly He'll just

1:00:56

notice that the aliens are messing with things

1:00:58

in his life and then he'll have to

1:01:00

work backwards to ask Wait, what did I

1:01:02

do to piss you off? And that's the

1:01:04

phrase he kept using I pissed off the

1:01:06

aliens But I don't know why but this

1:01:08

is how they act kind of passive aggressively

1:01:10

and then I have a joke and it's

1:01:12

Frank It made me think of

1:01:14

the Old Testament and earlier animism where

1:01:16

the lightning happens and you're like, oh,

1:01:18

what did we do to? Piss off

1:01:21

whoever caused that because we can only

1:01:23

think in terms of human agency Yeah

1:01:26

And I just again I felt so bad for Whitley

1:01:28

like oh He's living his life kind of like I

1:01:30

used to do when something bad would happen and I

1:01:33

would be like, oh What's the lesson? God is trying

1:01:35

to teach me? What am I doing wrong in my

1:01:37

life? Am I being too prideful? I feel like he

1:01:39

does that same sort of thing like oh, what are

1:01:42

the aliens responding to that? I did Why is it

1:01:44

my fault my emo friend

1:01:46

from college Kevin? He

1:01:49

had this problem still emo I think

1:01:51

he's less emo. I mean he's emo bless him

1:01:53

and blessing Sal thing Oh kids. Oh, yeah, but

1:01:55

maybe a little less emo for him. I just

1:01:57

remember one time we were getting out of his

1:01:59

car And he opened the door

1:02:01

in such a way that he banged his head

1:02:03

and then he said why do things

1:02:05

like this always happen to me? Like

1:02:10

banging your head You

1:02:13

smacked your forehead This

1:02:22

is where Whitley will insert like an aside

1:02:24

like just something will pop into his head

1:02:26

all of a sudden and And

1:02:28

so he adds a new bullet point

1:02:30

to whatever earlier discussion and I guess

1:02:32

because he'd mentioned explosions He said by

1:02:34

the way, we know that there's been

1:02:37

the destruction of many bodies in these

1:02:39

explosions I'm like what bodies what explosions

1:02:41

what are you talking about? Well, I'm

1:02:43

so confused about that He says but

1:02:45

we don't know if they were real bodies. They

1:02:48

could have just been simulations. I was like What

1:02:51

what are we talking about? What

1:02:53

what destruction of bodies alien bodies human

1:02:55

bodies? Is this even a thing? Simulation

1:02:58

I bet I bet that's to excuse

1:03:00

away something that's been debunked. But what are

1:03:02

we even talking about? Yeah So

1:03:05

he kind of said that people that

1:03:07

hear voices and things have it wrong

1:03:09

in their abduction stories He said other

1:03:11

people get telepathic messages, but that's actually

1:03:13

maybe Imagination because the reality

1:03:15

is this kind of display seems

1:03:17

to be much more their method

1:03:19

of communication Okay, meaning

1:03:21

visual displays. He was talking about a visual

1:03:24

thing. So that's interesting Kind

1:03:26

of taking a stand against invalid

1:03:29

dating messages. There was

1:03:31

a mention of telepathy earlier I'm

1:03:33

yeah, I'm not sure what the through line

1:03:35

is there. Yeah, so then he started talking

1:03:37

about this guy named dr. David Webb Dr.

1:03:40

Webb who actually has a poll quote at

1:03:42

the beginning of communion and he mentions this

1:03:44

because this highly placed intelligence

1:03:47

agent Was interested

1:03:49

in Whitley and his experiences

1:03:51

before communion was published and

1:03:54

he's described as a specialist Yeah, and

1:03:56

on the poll quote I'm looking at the

1:03:58

back of Kerry's copy of communion here signed

1:04:00

by Whitley Streiber to carry.

1:04:02

Spoiler. He's credited as member,

1:04:04

National Committee on Space, chairman

1:04:06

of Space Studies, University of

1:04:08

North Dakota. And

1:04:10

the quote is, the reader should remember the

1:04:12

words of a famous biologist, Dr. JBS Haldane,

1:04:15

who is a famous biologist. We've mentioned him

1:04:17

on the show before. That,

1:04:19

returning to the quote, not only is

1:04:21

the universe stranger than we suppose, but

1:04:23

stranger than we can suppose. Communion

1:04:26

is a brilliant, compelling, and provocative

1:04:29

work. And I'm sure when

1:04:31

he said that, he meant, so

1:04:33

anything goes. Right. You can use my

1:04:35

blanket seal of approval on anything you say.

1:04:37

I approve anything strange.

1:04:39

But yeah, Whitley has this long

1:04:41

list of organizations that Dr. David

1:04:43

Webb was involved with, DARPA, NASA.

1:04:45

He keeps on going. And where

1:04:47

did he end up, Ross? Oh,

1:04:49

I don't know. Where did he

1:04:51

end up? He ended up at

1:04:53

our cabin before our reunion. Yes.

1:04:55

Our meeting Whitley and Ann's. I've got to

1:04:58

start. I'm not going to lose pronouns. Yeah.

1:05:00

Let's not confuse our listeners the way

1:05:02

Whitley confuses us. Yeah, indeed. So before

1:05:05

he published Communion, Dr. David Webb was

1:05:07

visiting him at their cabin, where a

1:05:09

lot of these events take place in

1:05:11

the original Communion. At least I've heard

1:05:13

him tell the stories about all of

1:05:16

these visitations happening at that cabin. And

1:05:18

so his takeaway from this was,

1:05:21

they knew the well-connected intelligence officers,

1:05:23

the government, they all knew before

1:05:25

1987, before I published

1:05:27

this book, that these abductions were

1:05:29

happening. So when later on they

1:05:31

tried to say, we're all crazy, just know

1:05:33

that they knew and they realized this was

1:05:35

a real phenomenon. And I'm thinking, well, Betty

1:05:38

and Barney Hill, they published their book back

1:05:40

in 1966, The Interrupted Journey.

1:05:42

So the story had been out there for

1:05:45

a long time. Anyways, he thought that that

1:05:47

was very important, that we all know that

1:05:49

they knew. But also

1:05:52

he mentions here, again, without

1:05:54

any evidence, he's been

1:05:56

convinced by this, that all of this abduction

1:05:58

activity has been part of a- seed

1:06:00

bank plan. Yes, they are

1:06:03

storing our DNA in case Earth

1:06:05

is toast. Maybe we have a

1:06:08

nuclear fallout, maybe climate destroys

1:06:10

us, whatever it is, they're

1:06:12

backing us up. But,

1:06:14

he thinks that, sure, this is

1:06:17

about insurance, but it could also

1:06:19

be, all of these abductions could

1:06:21

be about creating something, an in-between,

1:06:23

a hybrid between humans and aliens

1:06:26

that can understand both of them

1:06:28

and facilitate communication. Okay,

1:06:30

could be, Whitley, could be. Yeah, could

1:06:32

be. It could be. Yeah,

1:06:34

this idea of insurance, of our government

1:06:37

trading us off so they can get

1:06:39

tech, oh my god, it's like voluntary

1:06:41

hostages. I mean, it's a truly brutal

1:06:43

vision. Where's this tech? Why are

1:06:45

we still using fossil fuels and solid

1:06:48

rocket boosters if we have all this

1:06:50

alien tech? It's all

1:06:52

in the military industrial complex. Yeah, but

1:06:54

why is the military still using all this old

1:06:56

technology that we had to figure out the hard

1:06:58

way? They aren't, Ross, keep

1:07:01

up. I'm trying. You only think that they're

1:07:03

using the old tech. They're using the

1:07:05

new tech from the aliens, which

1:07:08

is better. And well-documented in

1:07:10

grainy videos. Yes, thank you. Oh,

1:07:12

okay. That's how you're following. Well,

1:07:14

speaking of grainy videos, he's talking

1:07:16

about how our weapons are ineffective

1:07:18

against aliens. So, they're just so

1:07:20

far ahead of us. There's nothing

1:07:23

we can do. So he... Oh,

1:07:25

yeah. Should that video have a fire base off of

1:07:28

Afghanistan? Yeah. So, he demonstrates this

1:07:30

with a video from Afghanistan. And I

1:07:32

think it was shot in 2011. I

1:07:35

think that was the date on the footage. When

1:07:37

you look at it, it looks like infrared footage

1:07:39

and you've got a light backdrop and then dark

1:07:41

objects in the foreground, or as he tells us,

1:07:43

kind of hovering in the air. And there's two

1:07:45

shots. There's one that's just kind of zoomed in

1:07:48

on two of these floating simmering

1:07:50

objects that have kind of materials sort

1:07:52

of dripping off the bottom of them.

1:07:54

Yeah. And then there's a later shot

1:07:56

that's more zoomed out where you see the mountains, I

1:07:58

guess, of Afghanistan. And

1:08:01

these objects and there's I think up to four

1:08:03

of them that you can see anyway So he

1:08:05

tells us to wait for it and all of

1:08:07

a sudden What looks like a

1:08:09

rocket comes in from the side and blows up to

1:08:11

the left of them So it looks

1:08:13

like mm-hmm a projectile goes through

1:08:16

two objects and the objects disintegrate

1:08:18

and then reappear Yeah, visually

1:08:20

it looks like there's an explosion and it

1:08:23

knocks them down But then all

1:08:25

of a sudden there they are again Yeah,

1:08:27

and the audience laughs at them and in

1:08:29

Whitley Streber says yeah I mean how silly

1:08:32

that we think we can do anything to

1:08:34

them Oh the implication being actually this

1:08:36

is alien tech that zips itself back

1:08:38

up and we were our silly little weaponry

1:08:40

barely Scathed to them right so I'm thinking

1:08:42

okay. I think we need more info here

1:08:44

So I sent this to some skeptical podcasters

1:08:46

I know and I sent it to Mick

1:08:48

West who is he and his website Metabunk

1:08:51

are the best places to go for analysis

1:08:53

that kind of footage So

1:08:55

I sent it to him. He said yeah,

1:08:57

we haven't covered it on Metabunk But this

1:08:59

has come up a lot and forums definitely

1:09:01

something we've seen before and he was able

1:09:03

to send me a longer more full-featured YouTube

1:09:05

clip of this original footage and it becomes

1:09:08

so obviously clear what's going on

1:09:10

here Okay, and that's that these are

1:09:12

flares some people Yeah,

1:09:16

like with a flare gun you can like set up

1:09:18

this burning Object that can be used

1:09:20

and it can just kind of float in the

1:09:23

sky for a fairly long time and these probably

1:09:25

have shoots on Them hence shoot players so they

1:09:27

can just sort of linger in the sky and

1:09:29

you can do target practice or Marking

1:09:31

a certain area or whatever it is you need to do

1:09:33

are they on a drone or something? How do they stay that's

1:09:36

one way to do it another way would be

1:09:38

to put them on parachutes Oh, okay. They just

1:09:40

kind of slowly descend and give you enough time

1:09:42

to do things and So

1:09:44

so he analyzed this and he pointed

1:09:46

to a lot of helpful comments in

1:09:49

the the YouTube video And so I'll

1:09:51

read one from Patriot Condor because indeed

1:09:53

it does look like there's this huge

1:09:55

explosion And then yeah, why are

1:09:57

these things just rebounding to where they were before? And

1:10:00

Patriot Condor says, believe it or not, the

1:10:02

missile really didn't even hit the flare. The

1:10:04

flare itself is only a few inches across.

1:10:07

Hitting it perfectly is almost impossible,

1:10:09

as the missile tracks the plume

1:10:11

of heat, not the flare itself.

1:10:13

That large dark plume is the

1:10:15

heat signature which looks like several

1:10:17

feet in diameter in the flare,

1:10:19

the forward-looking infrared. As

1:10:22

the missile literally flies by it, within just

1:10:24

a couple of feet or so, the turbulence

1:10:26

from the missile causes the hot ash from

1:10:28

the flare to fly off and get caught

1:10:31

up in the turbulence of the missile. Because

1:10:33

the missile is actually undamaged, it continues on

1:10:35

and locks onto the next flare it sees.

1:10:37

So this seemed like a very good explanation of what we're

1:10:39

seeing. And they look like

1:10:41

flares, especially when you see the longer

1:10:44

clip that Whitley didn't include. Obviously,

1:10:46

there's, you know, like material

1:10:48

dripping down from it because

1:10:50

it's probably phosphorus thing. Yeah.

1:10:53

Entirely consistent with that. I

1:10:55

totally believe that. You made so many though

1:10:57

category distinctions that Whitley just wouldn't even make.

1:10:59

Like, you know, you said this is an

1:11:01

infrared video and I was like, oh yeah,

1:11:04

I guess that is an infrared video. Hadn't

1:11:06

thought about it. You know, I feel like

1:11:08

Whitley doesn't even do that sort of that

1:11:10

moment where you go like, well hang on.

1:11:13

What am I looking at here? What am I

1:11:15

missing in the entire view? If

1:11:18

I zoom out, now let's try to zoom out again. Now

1:11:20

let's try to mentally zoom out again. Yeah, indeed.

1:11:22

And I think it's consistent with the pattern

1:11:25

of walking on to the one interesting piece

1:11:27

of information and just sort of ignoring everything

1:11:29

else and the context. And

1:11:32

Whitley mentioned another thing and he

1:11:34

called it angel hair. That's how

1:11:36

he described the trails descending down

1:11:38

from the object. Yeah, and slightly

1:11:40

upward. The object turned out to

1:11:42

be fire. Yeah, and I'm

1:11:44

sure we've encountered this before, but I just didn't

1:11:46

recognize that term angel hair. So

1:11:48

Mick let me know that that's just kind

1:11:50

of part of the alien mythology and sure

1:11:52

enough I was able to find

1:11:55

references to this. The idea that

1:11:57

there's this wispy material that often

1:11:59

is... associated with

1:12:01

UFO sightings and apparently the

1:12:03

Raylians have made a big

1:12:06

deal about this as well.

1:12:08

Yeah and they described it

1:12:10

as ionized air

1:12:13

sleeting off of the electromagnetic field

1:12:15

that surrounds the UFO. Okay

1:12:17

those were a lot of words. The electromagnetic

1:12:20

field that surrounds the UFO. Hey

1:12:26

sure we explained it. Another

1:12:28

is excess energy converted into

1:12:30

matter. Okay. Wow

1:12:33

that's quite a statement isn't it? Yeah converting

1:12:35

energy into matter. Yeah yeah. Wow

1:12:37

we did it! Yeah the opposite of

1:12:40

an atomic explosion. Yeah impressive. And then

1:12:42

also this list is from a

1:12:45

Wikipedia article about angel hair. Another

1:12:47

explanation is the usage by UFOs

1:12:50

of a G field that would

1:12:52

cause heavy atoms in ordinary air

1:12:54

to react among themselves and produce

1:12:57

a kind of precipitate that falls

1:12:59

to the ground and disappears as

1:13:01

the ionization decreases. Hmm those were

1:13:03

words. Hmm. Yeah. Doobie likes that

1:13:06

though. I hadn't

1:13:08

heard the term angel hair before but now I

1:13:10

have. I love that pasta. Yeah. Great pasta. So

1:13:12

that was the first footage he showed us. So

1:13:15

next he showed us another video that you

1:13:17

were looking at as we were preparing to

1:13:19

record here so I can't wait to hear

1:13:22

your thoughts. Uh-huh. This was a video that

1:13:24

he prefaced by saying you know

1:13:26

people are always complaining that

1:13:29

UFO footage isn't clear enough.

1:13:31

Yeah I am always complaining about that. Yeah yeah

1:13:33

but I have some very clear

1:13:35

footage. Oh thank goodness I can't wait. And

1:13:38

then he shows what I have to say is

1:13:40

like kind of grainy. I mean it's better than

1:13:42

a lot of stuff but I'm so like it

1:13:44

wasn't shot on my iPhone I'll tell you that.

1:13:46

This is bad looking. And the reason

1:13:48

it wasn't shot on your iPhone is that

1:13:50

it's from 2002 before iPhones were a thing.

1:13:52

It's fair. This was taken in

1:13:55

um when

1:13:58

was it? in,

1:14:01

no, 2002, excuse me, in

1:14:04

the Okanagan in British

1:14:06

Columbia by a guy

1:14:08

who just happened to take it off of

1:14:11

his back deck. And

1:14:13

you'll see it in a minute. It'll come up. I

1:14:15

know the video is a

1:14:18

little long, but it will come up in a

1:14:20

moment. Let's just wait for

1:14:22

it. I'm sorry. I should have

1:14:24

taken the front of this clip off. Is

1:14:27

it running? Yeah, good. It'll

1:14:30

come up. And you'll see

1:14:32

a wonderful image of a UFO in

1:14:34

utter clarity here in just a moment.

1:14:37

There it is. Now that's

1:14:40

not a balloon. And look

1:14:42

at around the edges of it, there's

1:14:44

distortions around the outside of it or

1:14:46

because of it. There's a

1:14:48

very high intensity magnetic field involved

1:14:51

in that. And

1:14:53

now it will immediately disappear. What

1:14:56

we did was we expanded each

1:14:58

frame by seven so that this

1:15:01

happens more quickly. This is slowed

1:15:03

down, but it's not altered in

1:15:05

any way whatsoever. Once

1:15:07

again, Whitley offers a rational explanation

1:15:09

and then she says, no, not

1:15:12

a balloon. I'm looking at that, Ross. That

1:15:15

might be a balloon. I think

1:15:17

of how in politics lately you

1:15:19

often have to ask yourself, is

1:15:21

an accusation and admission of guilt?

1:15:24

I feel like that's a theme I keep seeing

1:15:26

with Donald Trump. He'll point at somebody else for

1:15:28

doing something. They're like, oh, is that you accusing

1:15:31

someone of doing something you just did? It

1:15:33

sounds like that's your modus operandi. Showing

1:15:35

your ass by accusing others. I feel

1:15:37

like when Whitley tells you something is

1:15:39

definitely not this, it might

1:15:42

be this. Yeah. He's like, I

1:15:44

explored that counterpoint, but I found a way

1:15:46

around it. And you can take my

1:15:48

word for it. So yeah, it's this

1:15:50

blue sky video that someone is taking

1:15:53

off of their deck and he says

1:15:55

it's completely clear. It is not. Oh

1:15:57

my God. It's clearly like a

1:15:59

time. capture. So

1:16:02

that's already not a clear video

1:16:04

by its nature because everything jerkily

1:16:06

moves across the screen in a

1:16:08

way that makes it animated in

1:16:10

the wrong way. And he tells us this

1:16:12

has been slowed down 7x, we've you

1:16:14

know expanded the frames, but it hasn't been manipulated

1:16:16

in any way. I was like okay well you

1:16:19

just told us how it was manipulated, thank you

1:16:21

for that. But we see during the footage that

1:16:26

the guy is zooming way in, so he's zooming

1:16:28

as far as his camera will let him I'm

1:16:30

guessing to lock in on this object. And

1:16:32

I'm quite certain the

1:16:34

reason the camera footage is so shaky

1:16:36

is because it is really hard to

1:16:39

keep something in frame when you're that

1:16:41

zoomed in. Any slight movement of your

1:16:44

hand is going to shake the

1:16:46

footage incredibly when you're zoomed in.

1:16:49

We don't know what the optical

1:16:51

or zoom enhancement is of this

1:16:53

image. But yeah like it's gonna

1:16:55

be herky-jerky and that explains the

1:16:57

movement. So it's fully consistent with

1:16:59

a completely steady object. Like when I

1:17:02

try to use binoculars to look at birds and you have

1:17:04

to have like such a steady hand or lose the

1:17:06

animal immediately. Yeah exactly and it helps to

1:17:08

have a tripod when you're dealing with those

1:17:10

kind of distances. But yeah any slight motion

1:17:12

covers a ton of ground. And

1:17:15

that's interesting I just assumed it was time-lapse footage

1:17:17

but you're right that's it. Here

1:17:20

we go two explanations that didn't involve

1:17:22

aliens. Right and then

1:17:24

it is this kind of gray

1:17:26

circle and it has interesting features to it.

1:17:28

My guess would be a mylar balloon floating

1:17:30

in the air. It looks like a balloon

1:17:32

to me. Yeah and it starts as like

1:17:35

more of a circular shape with some defining

1:17:37

features. But then it I would say

1:17:39

rotates so that you sort of see it on

1:17:41

edge and now it's more like a pill like

1:17:43

shape fully consistent with a balloon

1:17:45

that just sort of rotated up and

1:17:48

very high. And Whitley even goes so

1:17:50

far he adds more details again like

1:17:52

oh the distortion you see around it

1:17:54

is because it has a very strong

1:17:56

magnetic field. You don't know that. The

1:17:58

distortion is artifacting for compression from

1:18:00

a video from 2002 shot on

1:18:03

someone's camcorder from their bag. Anyways,

1:18:05

she's not clear. Again, I sent

1:18:07

it to McWest and he's like,

1:18:09

yeah, that's not super clear. The

1:18:12

criticism remains this is firmly in the

1:18:14

Liz, the low information zone. So

1:18:17

anyways, we got experts to look

1:18:19

at it. And Brian Dunning had

1:18:21

kind of the same reaction to

1:18:23

it that poor Whitley is probably

1:18:25

confused. Yeah, but he said that was

1:18:28

a UFO and utter clarity. So there you go.

1:18:30

Then he showed us a video of a gray

1:18:32

looking through a garage or something. He said there

1:18:34

was a lot of controversy about it on the

1:18:36

internet. And I think you were looking at this

1:18:38

before we started recording. So I'm interested to hear

1:18:40

your take. Okay. And here's the

1:18:42

moment where I think Ellen Steinfeld

1:18:44

was even skeptical of this because

1:18:46

he says Whitley introduces this and

1:18:48

says, I believe this is real

1:18:50

footage of an alien. It's

1:18:53

a dark room and they've got like

1:18:55

a light shining on this gray alien

1:18:57

face. And it looks like, you know,

1:18:59

if you imagined a mold, a rubber

1:19:01

mold, silicone mold of an alien, you

1:19:03

know, it looks like that, but it's

1:19:06

kind of moving around and having expressions.

1:19:08

And Ellen, I can hear from the

1:19:10

audience offers, oh yeah, I think

1:19:12

this is called alien interview. And

1:19:14

sure enough, this is footage that first appeared in 1997

1:19:16

as part of a documentary called

1:19:20

area 51, the alien interview. And it's

1:19:22

this credulous thing where they show a

1:19:25

little bit of this footage and then

1:19:27

they have talking heads, including one guy

1:19:29

who's, you know, lit from behind and

1:19:32

his voice has been modified because, you

1:19:34

know, he's worried about threats if he

1:19:36

reveals why he knows what he knows.

1:19:39

But they're all talking about this. Whitley

1:19:41

acknowledges that it's been controversial, but I

1:19:43

think Ellen Steinfeld pointing out that this

1:19:45

is called alien interview with him saying

1:19:47

like, yeah, we kind of know the

1:19:49

provenance of this video. Maybe. And I

1:19:51

don't know, maybe he does take it

1:19:54

seriously, but I got the impression that

1:19:56

he's like, maybe we shouldn't be

1:19:58

using this as an example. vibe.

1:20:00

Because it really does look like a human

1:20:02

made model of an alien. It's also,

1:20:05

listen, if the documentary is the first

1:20:07

place something appears, the documentarian is supposed

1:20:09

to take responsibility for where that came

1:20:11

from. Absolutely. And we were looking at

1:20:13

this disclaimer at the beginning of the

1:20:16

footage that says, the following program deals

1:20:18

with controversial subjects. The theories, opinions, and

1:20:20

beliefs expressed are not the only possible

1:20:22

interpretation of the evidence. Viewers

1:20:24

are urged to make a judgment based

1:20:27

on all available information. That tells me

1:20:29

you made a documentary where you know

1:20:31

it's ridiculous, but you want to give

1:20:33

people a little rope that

1:20:35

they can use to form their

1:20:37

own theories and feel justified. Yeah, we're

1:20:39

not getting mad at you because you can point

1:20:41

at this one text slide. Yeah, but tell

1:20:43

us, Carrie, how did Whitley know that this

1:20:46

had to be real footage? Great question.

1:20:48

He said, the reason that I believe

1:20:50

it's real. See the green

1:20:52

light flashing up and down? Oh,

1:20:55

like a little green

1:20:57

laser pointer almost that's like hitting a

1:20:59

little diffuse glass piece or something. That's

1:21:01

kind of what visually it looks like.

1:21:04

He says, a light like that was

1:21:06

flashing up and down on my desk

1:21:08

when I was writing communion. If that's

1:21:11

a fake, why would they

1:21:13

choose to do that? Why indeed?

1:21:15

So I

1:21:17

think this is a really interesting thing

1:21:19

about how Whitley's mind works that he

1:21:21

can just isolate like green light. That's

1:21:24

so convincing to me. And speaking to that

1:21:26

tunnel vision you were talking about, like, okay, I see

1:21:28

that one little detail in the frame. Never mind that

1:21:30

they get up and push and prod this like alien

1:21:32

mask. Yeah, I see the green light. I experienced a

1:21:34

green light like that. Then I could never prove it

1:21:36

to you, but I swear while I was writing and

1:21:38

he said, I always saw it out of the corner

1:21:40

of my eye and I tried to like touch it

1:21:42

with my hand and then it would ooze out of

1:21:45

my fingers. But if I look directly at it, it

1:21:47

would go away. I'm thinking, okay,

1:21:49

you're having some sort of experience,

1:21:51

but or like visual floaters could be anything

1:21:53

like I get a like a little flashing light

1:21:55

in the corner of my left eye sometimes and

1:21:57

the doctors looked at it and they're just like,

1:22:00

Like, yeah, it's like migraine plus 40

1:22:02

plus, you know, little flutters

1:22:04

in your eyes, moving around. Yep, nothing. That's

1:22:07

not the fun explanation. So

1:22:09

yeah, he's convinced by that. Then he shows

1:22:11

us this photo of an alien and

1:22:14

says that people in Mexico call them ant

1:22:16

people. They come up from the ground and

1:22:18

they wanna steal your soul. And he refers

1:22:20

to how, again, we need to have light

1:22:22

souls so they can't drag you down. But

1:22:24

it's this, you know, photo of what you

1:22:26

would consider a typical gray alien. Walking through

1:22:28

a doorframe, right? Yeah, and he says, I

1:22:30

had to cut it off so that it wouldn't

1:22:32

be restricted on YouTube. But you can tell that

1:22:34

it's a woman because it's naked and she's pregnant.

1:22:37

I looked up the original photo. It, you know,

1:22:39

looks like a model. I don't think anybody would

1:22:41

worry about it showing up in this video. Here

1:22:43

it is. Oh,

1:22:45

okay. Without the cropping. He

1:22:48

said she was coming up out of the

1:22:50

ground, which I took to me, maybe he

1:22:52

was looking at a tree, but no, that's

1:22:54

definitely like supposed to be an alien. It's

1:22:56

just the mythology, apparently, that they pop out of

1:22:58

the ground and drag people

1:23:00

down. But yeah, this looks like,

1:23:02

again, a model at very low

1:23:05

resolution. And- I

1:23:07

see something there. The name Uri Geller. Yes,

1:23:09

okay. I think almost every instance of

1:23:12

this image I found was in relation

1:23:14

to Uri Geller posting this image because

1:23:17

he was credulous and felt that this was proof

1:23:19

of alien. Ah, fuck! Uri. Uri

1:23:22

Geller. Are you that star for attention?

1:23:24

I'm gonna pick up my

1:23:26

man, Randy's mantle of

1:23:28

Uri Geller socks. Yeah. He

1:23:32

does. He's been sucking for

1:23:34

so long. As again,

1:23:36

James Randy would say, an unsinkable rubber

1:23:38

duck. He just keeps popping up again.

1:23:41

How annoying. He is annoying. He was

1:23:43

very convinced by that particular photo. There

1:23:45

was also a caption on this one, so

1:23:47

I'm just gonna read out the caption. It said,

1:23:49

alleged alien photographed on September 22nd, 2004 at

1:23:52

10 45 p.m. with

1:23:55

a Kodak DX4530 camera. The

1:23:59

photo was taken by... security guard

1:24:01

in an abandoned office in

1:24:03

Riones, Nuevo Leon, Mexico. I

1:24:06

love that all those little bits of detail

1:24:08

are I assume there to just make it

1:24:10

sound all the more credible. Perhaps. Exactly which

1:24:12

model of camera got this grainy photo. Oh

1:24:14

yeah, well I'm glad for it. I appreciate

1:24:16

the alleged. Yes, and I'll take all the

1:24:18

details you want to give me. So next

1:24:21

he showed another clip, this is his final

1:24:23

clip, and it was of these boys playing

1:24:25

soccer. He said it was in Argentina. Later

1:24:27

on the audience corrected him and said, actually

1:24:29

that was in Mexico. The guy in the

1:24:31

front row was like, that can't be from Argentina, they're

1:24:33

all speaking Mexican Spanish, which is a great

1:24:36

fact-checking moment. He's like, oh really, I thought

1:24:38

it was Argentina. Weird. Oh really Whitley? Why

1:24:40

did you think that? You need to go

1:24:43

back. Indeed.

1:24:45

Yeah, maybe stop and ask those

1:24:48

questions. But as they were playing soccer,

1:24:50

this was at night, it was dark,

1:24:52

and the boy farther from the camera,

1:24:54

he kind of walks back and there's

1:24:56

some kind of either tree or pole,

1:24:59

and an alien steps out from behind it,

1:25:01

and it looks like you know this alien

1:25:04

has been hiding behind this thing thinner than

1:25:06

the alien's body, and it's super

1:25:08

grainy, but it does look like one of

1:25:10

those kind of great aliens, and it reaches

1:25:12

out towards him and the boy recoils. Oh

1:25:15

that's what happened. I couldn't even make out what

1:25:17

was happening. Okay, and Whitley says

1:25:19

very dramatically, if it had touched

1:25:21

him, this

1:25:23

video would never have been made. Everyone

1:25:26

concerned would have had missing time.

1:25:30

They wouldn't have even known that it had happened. Wow,

1:25:33

okay. So then I start thinking, okay,

1:25:35

so you're telling me that every single missing

1:25:37

time story you've heard, they have not touched

1:25:39

the alien, so it was not

1:25:41

even a very impressive abduction story. Mm-hmm.

1:25:44

Okay. So someone asked him to replay

1:25:46

the clip. He can't, technology breaks on

1:25:48

him again. He can't rewind to the

1:25:50

previous slide, whatever. But then he wraps

1:25:53

this up for us thematically. All of

1:25:55

this activity, everything we've been talking about

1:25:57

here, it's about the harvesting of souls.

1:26:00

the exchange of souls, the freeing of souls.

1:26:02

We're all going to be reborn and some

1:26:04

of us will have free souls, but some

1:26:06

of us won't. And I

1:26:08

want for everyone who listens to me, I want

1:26:10

for them to have a free soul. Again,

1:26:12

this is very much like a pastor doing the

1:26:14

altar call. Yeah, you do have a

1:26:17

soul and this is your primary reason

1:26:19

for being. You are a master of

1:26:21

the soul. Okay. And

1:26:23

then he has additional stories. He's

1:26:26

talking about the bodies and he says

1:26:28

that they've known about it for a

1:26:30

long time and he talks about this

1:26:32

General Arthur Exon who was friends with

1:26:34

my uncle Edward Streber. And when they

1:26:36

were young officers, again, he's like leaving

1:26:38

out important details because he talks about

1:26:40

like holding of the bodies. But was

1:26:42

it someone that General Exon knew that

1:26:44

held the body or was it Exon

1:26:46

himself? I'm not sure. Can't we define

1:26:48

the bodies? And then he

1:26:50

tells us, my sister knew about this when

1:26:52

she was young. I didn't learn about it until

1:26:54

after communion. At my cousin's wedding. But

1:26:57

General Exon never told me about it directly. My

1:26:59

uncle never told me about it directly. But I

1:27:01

put two and two together. I'm like, what? Where

1:27:05

did this info come from? You completely

1:27:07

erased all of the pathways back to

1:27:09

this original story. Oh, your storytelling is...

1:27:12

I hope your writing is better. It is, it

1:27:15

is. And if you all vote for us to

1:27:17

read the book, well, okay, okay. The writing is

1:27:19

definitely better. Good. I'm glad to

1:27:21

hear that. He also said that there was a Reddit

1:27:23

document that has something that resembles his feelings when he

1:27:25

got abducted and it was like a Reddit document. Yeah,

1:27:27

I found a few Reddit threads that talk

1:27:30

about aliens producing smells. So it must have

1:27:32

been one of them. Yeah. But

1:27:34

yeah, he was saying how he personally had

1:27:36

witnessed something in his own life

1:27:38

where he saw an alien outside a window

1:27:40

and it was exuding and I don't know

1:27:43

how he smelled through the window, but ammonia

1:27:46

smelling like gross substances through

1:27:48

its skin. Oh, yeah, like feces pools on its

1:27:50

skin. Yeah, and apparently the Reddit document was

1:27:52

saying other things about aliens, but it was saying

1:27:54

that these EDOs, yeah,

1:27:56

Reddit document, Reddit thread was

1:27:59

saying that... that EBOs don't

1:28:02

have proper digestive systems. And so

1:28:04

they just exude stuff. So

1:28:07

gross. Through their skin. OK. The pores. And

1:28:09

that it's foul smelling. And he's, again, just

1:28:11

like that green light, Whitley says, well, there's

1:28:13

no way they could have known that. Because

1:28:16

I shared that with my uncle or this

1:28:18

general or whatever. But they never told anyone.

1:28:20

And I never told anyone. So there's no

1:28:22

way they could have known this detail about

1:28:25

aliens. Yeah, which is like, it's

1:28:27

sort of like sweat. The theory is

1:28:29

sort of like sweat. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So

1:28:31

I'm like, OK, how close were your

1:28:33

two pet theories? Mm-hmm. He couldn't

1:28:35

tell me anything. And then he has another

1:28:37

piece of data for us. They have extremely

1:28:40

large amounts of type 1

1:28:42

muscle, the endurance muscle. Is

1:28:45

that a type? Yeah, there are two types of muscle.

1:28:47

Yeah, I'm like, if you're a runner, you try to

1:28:49

build up the endurance muscle. I wasn't

1:28:52

aware of the numbers being assigned to them. But

1:28:54

I've certainly heard this before. And then

1:28:56

you have your quick strength muscle. And

1:28:58

he says that they are just replete

1:29:00

with all of this muscle. And he

1:29:02

knows this because he's been held from

1:29:04

behind by these aliens. Hell yeah, buddy. For

1:29:06

a long period of time. And he could struggle

1:29:08

to get free, but they could just hold him

1:29:10

like a vice forever. Oh, OK. All right. That

1:29:12

was not as fun as it sounded at first.

1:29:16

Who knows what was going on during

1:29:18

that embrace. But apparently, this also, for

1:29:20

him, verified the Reddit information. This has

1:29:23

to be a real document because I

1:29:25

can back up this one piece of

1:29:27

information with my remembered personal experience. So

1:29:30

he also said something really sweet that

1:29:32

just really touched on how alone Whitley

1:29:34

can feel. He said, there's nobody else

1:29:36

out here doing this. I'm all alone.

1:29:39

One of these days, these strange stories

1:29:41

are going to be to your children

1:29:43

and your grandchildren, just part of ordinary

1:29:45

life in the new world. Yeah,

1:29:47

he was pleading with the audience, please stay with me.

1:29:50

I'm all alone. And I was like, I'm

1:29:52

here. Yeah, that's how I felt. You want

1:29:54

to help him? I'll go to the archives

1:29:56

with you. I'll tell your story. Oh my god, I'll

1:29:58

do it. I'll do it 100%. We're in Whitley.

1:30:00

Yeah, yeah, please. So

1:30:03

then he was pretty much done. He got

1:30:05

a standing ovation. And then

1:30:08

Alan said, do you want a question? Do you

1:30:10

want any question and answer? And Whitley was like,

1:30:12

oh, they told me I couldn't. But okay, how

1:30:14

about just one? And then picks the first person

1:30:16

who shoots her arm up and

1:30:19

boy did she biff it. Wasted

1:30:22

opportunity. She did not have a question. She

1:30:24

just wanted to have an interaction with him and tell him

1:30:27

how much she loves him and he is so great. And

1:30:29

we all listened to that. And

1:30:31

then I went up and got him

1:30:33

to sign my copy of Communion. Yeah,

1:30:36

yeah, I'm a little jealous. Last time I

1:30:38

saw him at the previous Conscious Life Expo, I

1:30:40

took a picture with him. I wish I

1:30:42

had a signed copy of Communion. He sells

1:30:44

them on his website. Which he will sign. He

1:30:46

said anything directly from his website will come with a

1:30:48

signature. That's unknowncountry.com. But maybe I can wait

1:30:51

and get him to sign it in person.

1:30:53

And his podcast is Dreamland. Dreamland, yeah, he

1:30:55

reminds us of all of that. He

1:30:58

also had this one last piece

1:31:00

of data from the Crabwood Formation.

1:31:05

I don't know what that is, I didn't look

1:31:07

it up. But he told us to be, wear

1:31:09

those with false gifts and broken promises. Great. I

1:31:12

thought, hmm. Really helpful. That seems

1:31:14

relevant for the UFO community. Lots

1:31:16

of promises going on about disclosure and technology.

1:31:20

So when I got him to sign my book, there was

1:31:22

a woman behind me in line and I recognized her but

1:31:24

I couldn't get it from where. And she was like,

1:31:26

do you want me to take a picture of

1:31:29

you and Whitley? And it was like, she had like a DSLR. So

1:31:31

I'm thinking, well, it's just gonna be on your

1:31:33

camera, lady. Okay, if this will make you happy.

1:31:37

Maybe she just follows around Whitley's Dreebor and takes pictures.

1:31:39

Here, let me hand you my phone. Yeah, no,

1:31:41

no, she was holding her DSLR. Like, I'm

1:31:44

gonna take it on this. It exists

1:31:46

somewhere now. And so she took it. And

1:31:48

then as I was leaving, she was like, hey,

1:31:50

Carrie. Oh,

1:31:52

listener. And she had taken this

1:31:54

beautiful photo of me and Whitley's Dreebor. Which

1:31:57

I'll share. And her name is Jill Simpson. Jill,

1:32:00

you had a plan. It

1:32:02

all makes sense now. And so I wanted to say

1:32:04

what her impression was because she stayed for this whole $50 talk.

1:32:08

She said, I totally wanted a photo with Whitley.

1:32:10

I got one after you. I

1:32:12

mean, he's the OG alien abduction guy.

1:32:14

Communion was my introduction to that whole

1:32:16

phenomenon when I was a teenager. That

1:32:18

book was everywhere, even in little English

1:32:20

bookshops. She's English. I was

1:32:22

quite surprised at the small turnout for this

1:32:24

lecture. I thought he'd draw a much bigger

1:32:27

crowd. How many people were in there? So

1:32:30

I went back to my notes and looked, and there were 57 attendees.

1:32:32

Okay. And

1:32:34

I wrote down that... In the Carmel room.

1:32:36

Yeah, that's not full. And I wrote down

1:32:38

that my guess of ratio of women to men was one to

1:32:40

one, which is uncommon. The alien guys seem

1:32:43

to get a lot more men. Yeah, that's

1:32:45

true. Absolutely. Yeah, the whole

1:32:47

rabbit hole crowd is definitely more represented

1:32:49

with the men. Interesting.

1:32:52

Well, that was fun. That was

1:32:54

fun. Tell us if

1:32:56

you want us to read Communion, or if you're like, I get it.

1:32:58

A guy thinks he was abducted by aliens. Okay, I'll remember to

1:33:00

put those in the polls. Okay, I

1:33:02

get it. Those

1:33:06

will be the two options. And I'll share that video

1:33:08

footage as well. I'll put that up on the Facebook

1:33:10

page so you can see it. All

1:33:13

right, well, that's it for this episode, but boy,

1:33:15

do we have some really wild stories to tell

1:33:17

you coming up. We sure

1:33:19

do. Well, that's it for our show. Our theme

1:33:21

music is by Brian Keith-Shelton. Our administrative manager is Ian

1:33:23

Kramer. This episode

1:33:25

was edited by Ross Plautcher at the last minute. Thank

1:33:27

you, Ross. And you can

1:33:29

support us. You can help make this show

1:33:32

possible at maximumfun.org/join. But guess what? We've got

1:33:34

maximum fun coming up in the next month

1:33:36

or so. The next fun drive. That's a

1:33:38

good time to do it. Should

1:33:41

we say our special event that we're

1:33:43

doing? Or do we wait? Do we wait? Maybe we wait. We

1:33:45

wait. But there is something. Oh, Carrie's

1:33:47

doing amazing things with her hands right now. They're all

1:33:49

over the place. You

1:33:51

can also support us by telling a friend.

1:33:53

Telling an alien. Telepathically. The

1:33:56

first alien. They're

1:34:00

their first alien listener and we'll put you on the

1:34:02

show. Absolutely. And remember... To

1:34:05

give you a flavor of what

1:34:07

a new world will really be like, it

1:34:10

will be much bigger. You,

1:34:13

you will be much bigger

1:34:15

in this world than you are now

1:34:17

because you're living with blinders on, believe

1:34:19

me. They're gonna take those

1:34:21

blinders off. That's what it is to

1:34:24

be born. You come out

1:34:26

of the womb and all of a sudden, white

1:34:28

everywhere. What are you gonna do? You

1:34:31

can't see straight. But you

1:34:33

can. Actually you can. You

1:34:36

can do fine. We'll do fine. All right. Let's

1:34:40

see. The

1:34:54

following are real reenactments of

1:34:56

pretend emergency calls. I'm

1:34:59

on my way. My husband! It's

1:35:01

my husband! Calm down please. What about your

1:35:03

husband? He looks dishwasher wrong. Please help. Please

1:35:05

help me. Where are you now ma'am? In

1:35:07

the kitchen table. I was with my dad.

1:35:10

He mispronounced his words intentionally. There

1:35:16

are plenty of podcasts on the hunt for

1:35:18

justice. But only one podcast

1:35:20

has the courage to take on the

1:35:23

silly crimes. Watch John

1:35:25

Hodgman, the only true crime podcast that won't

1:35:27

leave you feeling sad and bad and scared

1:35:29

for once. Only on

1:35:31

maximumfun.org. Maximum

1:35:34

Fun, a worker owned network

1:35:37

of artist owned shows.