0:08

Welcome. To an arrest in carry the

0:11

show or we don't just report on

0:13

fringe science, spirituality, claims of the paranormal.

0:15

We take part ourselves. A up when they

0:18

make the claims. We shop so you don't have to

0:20

are most boucher can. I'm Carrie, Poppy and

0:22

I did. Nothing. In this

0:24

episode. Your what were you even doing this

0:26

night that we're going to be talking about? Hang

0:29

out with true. Did you ever go watch the

0:31

nighttime film there were showing it contact in the

0:33

desert because that's what we're talking about in episode

0:35

where tiger contact in the desert that happened in

0:37

the desert. We walked by it i remembered

0:39

your and I walking by a big like

0:41

and any did screen. Yeah, that seemed

0:44

unnecessary. They had this giant floodwall

0:46

screen on the edge of this

0:48

really big inflatable structure. And because

0:51

that you have to contend with

0:53

the noise of the continuous inflation.

0:56

Oh. Because they a motor

0:58

running the whole time. Gas. Like, why

1:00

not just make a scaffold or something

1:03

Brass ring on that. Oh yeah,

1:05

I did it compete with the

1:07

audio and. They did. I remember walking

1:09

by in her know, ah, lawnmower. oh

1:11

that would drive me I think inflated.

1:13

Yeah, what's the point. Yeah I wanna

1:15

see. it was actually the movie Alien.

1:18

Well. At least this particular night they

1:20

were showing Close Encounters of the Third

1:22

Kind. Oh okay, we're just going to

1:24

The Listener. Just wrote recently asking for

1:27

some insight into how these you fo

1:29

conference goers feel about that movie in

1:31

particular. Oh okay, and I, I don't

1:34

know waxed philosophical about their relationship and

1:36

how it comes up a fair amount.

1:38

but I wasn't thinking about how it

1:41

was actually a movie night at the

1:43

conference. Heck, let's see. And

1:45

I remember there was popcorn. Another night they

1:47

were showing Pall pall pall pall

1:49

he a you el pa. I'm

1:52

realizing how hard it is to

1:54

enunciate the word Paul. A

1:56

Here it's some. once you've decided

1:58

it's strange that Certainly is. Certain words

2:01

sometimes that semantic fixation like all of

2:03

a sudden you realize the component sounds

2:05

in our language is weird. Oh my

2:07

god, Duncan, we started on the word

2:09

chocolate. Do not

2:11

get me started. Oh no,

2:14

it's happening. Chocolate. This

2:16

is how you lose your sanity. No, now I

2:18

can't remember where it's from but there was this

2:20

joke. Everybody wants money.

2:22

That's why they call it money. Just

2:25

crack me up. When

2:28

Drew makes a

2:31

really good move

2:33

in chess he

2:35

says, and that's why they

2:38

call it chess. But

2:42

it's not. Sometimes

2:45

the sound just feels like it really goes.

2:47

Now certain things are

2:49

onomatopoeias but chess is

2:52

not. That's not why. That's

2:54

hilarious. So Paul is by

2:57

Seth MacFarlane. It's a movie

2:59

he made. Oh yeah, okay.

3:02

And I haven't seen it. But I know

3:04

it has. I think it has a CG

3:06

alien. Jack is another one with Robin Williams

3:08

back in the day. Just another single. Where

3:10

he builds a treehouse and he's a... I

3:12

did see that. Anyways, they have a movie

3:14

night at the same time. And

3:17

the reason we mentioned that is because we don't know

3:19

what Carrie was doing at the time. But I

3:21

was not at the movie. You were not at the

3:24

movie. You were at a star watching party.

3:26

Yes, Searching the Skies

3:28

Night Vision Goggle Experience

3:31

with Ben Hanson. Okay,

3:33

Ben. Yeah, I remember walking

3:35

by this and seeing

3:37

you there or something. I have a visual memory of

3:40

it so I was on my way to something. I

3:42

just don't know what. In the printed brochure, it

3:44

said it was 8.15 to 11. Wow.

3:46

Yeah, and then I

3:49

think maybe on the website somewhere it was saying 8 to

3:51

11. So

3:53

I was a little nervous because I Was in

3:55

line asking a Q at a Q&A at the end of

3:57

a panel. There's

4:00

I don't know I'm going to be late

4:02

to the beginning of this thing but then

4:04

when I got outside of like out still

4:07

light out you can't see any stars And

4:09

sure enough when I wandered over there this

4:11

was at or Ryan's look out that yes

4:13

they've given little labels everything and I want

4:16

say that's a holdover from the old location

4:18

that they would call the Star Party viewing

4:20

area or Ryan's look out how could be

4:23

was just the backline behind this conference room

4:25

space and almost in your son of the

4:27

movie. But I don't remember being disturbed or

4:29

distracted. By that the film noises.

4:32

It is a noisy environments out.

4:34

Yeah the whole scene noise pollution

4:36

and light pollution which is a

4:38

problem when you're having a started

4:40

doing party. Anyways, who has been

4:42

Hansen and why should we pay

4:44

attention to him Now they tell

4:47

us in the program Ben hands

4:49

and graduated from the university of

4:51

Utah with a degree in sociology

4:53

and criminology cause he went to

4:55

work investigating child physical abuse and

4:57

sex crimes of that followed by

5:00

employment. With the F B, I

5:02

heard he sounds fancy, unrelated but

5:04

an interesting at the very least.

5:06

He found powerful Well he also

5:09

uses the skills he learned to

5:11

validate you fo witness testimony and

5:13

filter out hoaxers and cases with

5:16

natural explanation. Okay, okay young get

5:18

approached sense that on it's face.

5:20

Ben was the lead host, an

5:23

investigator of the Tv show Sacked

5:25

or Fakes paranormal files. He appeared

5:27

on you foes declassified Mysteries of

5:29

the Outdoors. Expedition Unknown

5:32

Paranormal lockdown. Really?

5:34

Cure is Not that and Ghosts

5:36

of Shepherdstown. Oh yeah, this guy's

5:39

been on a lot of Tv

5:41

and. Sees Hansen within. Yes,

5:44

Yes, it's not like the band that

5:46

so there and oh and or came

5:48

back, Hansen, Iron and that and as

5:50

obe just back you know, bad backs.

5:53

Last name is answer yeah I just saw

5:55

him on the John Malaney shell. Oh,

5:57

really interesting jungle and he has his own

5:59

show. John Delaney had a six

6:01

episode show called Everybody's in LA that's

6:04

over, but you can see on Netflix.

6:06

Okay. Great. Loved

6:08

it. Beck Hansen is an EN. Okay, there

6:11

we go. Okay, we found another EN. That's it for

6:13

our show. Ben Hansen

6:15

is also a night vision

6:17

and thermal imaging equipment dealer

6:19

for night vision ops. Okay.

6:22

Interesting. Okay, so he sells night

6:25

vision gear. Yeah. Okay.

6:28

Clearly he's on a lot of shows. He's

6:30

got a 9 dB that's just a laundry

6:32

list of all these kind of UFO ghost.

6:34

Well, I guess they're mostly UFO shows where

6:36

he's either a host or a talking head,

6:39

an investigative expert, and they seem to go

6:41

back to like 2010 era. So

6:44

he's been doing this for a while and I

6:46

got the sense that he's, you know, like a

6:48

celebrity in this group where people are like, whoa,

6:50

Ben Hansen, I've seen you on TV. And

6:53

I just, I wasn't familiar with him, but I would

6:55

see like, I think he had a booth. I

6:57

remember seeing like a bunch of head shots of

6:59

him when he was, you know, even younger and

7:01

even dreamier. Good looking dude. And I don't know,

7:04

it was just that kind of weird feeling of

7:06

like, oh, maybe I should be a little more

7:08

in awe of you than I know to be.

7:10

I never know what to do with

7:12

someone claiming they were an FBI agent

7:14

or a CIA agent. Oh, right. Like,

7:17

how would I know if this was a lie? Where would I

7:19

begin? Mm, good point. Yeah, there's

7:21

just a real walled garden there.

7:24

Yeah. Where they can either

7:26

confirm nor deny. Yeah, I mean, you could

7:28

try to ask. I haven't tried. I also

7:30

did not track that down. So I'm not

7:32

going to put my weight behind his career

7:34

with the FBI. Ben had

7:36

also given a talk earlier that

7:38

day that I did not attend

7:41

called The Secret Plan for UFO

7:43

Disclosure. So you know, I

7:45

feel like giving a talk of that title already

7:47

gives a bit of a nod to sort of

7:49

where you're at in the

7:51

UFO realm. So I thought, okay, somebody who

7:53

feels like he has inside knowledge of how

7:55

UFO disclosure is going to play out. Can

7:58

make some predictions. I want to hear what

8:00

this guy's saying. has to say about UFOs.

8:02

And also we reported on our previous contact

8:04

in the desert back in 2017, the star

8:06

party that I went to that year where

8:08

there were also night vision goggles and a

8:11

lot of sightings they were promising like dozens

8:13

per night that you were gonna see UFOs.

8:16

Oh wow, yeah that seems to give up

8:18

the game doesn't it? Right, and I remember

8:20

at the time not only were people in

8:22

the moment getting super excited about things they

8:25

saw in the sky but then hearing people

8:27

tell stories about the previous night the next

8:29

day and making overblown

8:31

claims about what we all saw.

8:33

I'm like wait I was there that

8:36

didn't happen. So I'm hoping

8:38

for more of the same that's my

8:40

attitude going into this. More of the

8:42

same. Let's see what kind of interpretation

8:44

of the sky were being given at

8:46

this event. But it wasn't just Ben

8:48

Hansen alone there was also Mark De

8:51

Antonio who was

8:53

also listed in the speakers

8:55

section for contact in the

8:57

desert. Mark De Antonio has

9:00

a degree in astronomy and is

9:02

the mutual UFO networks. Oh,

9:05

Mufon. Mufon, that's right. Chief photo and

9:07

video analyst. Okay, okay. So he's the

9:09

one like when you submit, hey I

9:11

saw this craft, here's my video, here's

9:14

my photos I took. You submit it

9:16

to Mufon, he's the first line of

9:18

defense. Wow. He's gonna take a look

9:20

at it and write you back. Okay

9:23

and Mufon is basically where it's at in

9:25

terms of reporting your UFO. If you want

9:27

to report your UFO and you're a believer,

9:29

you want to report it to other believers,

9:32

you would go to Mufon. Yeah and we

9:34

talked about this in that Danny Sheehan

9:36

lawyer episode. We were talking

9:38

about kind of the history of both

9:40

government projects and citizen projects. This is

9:42

that citizen project that started in 69

9:45

I believe and

9:49

is still going. Yeah, like you

9:51

say, kind of the preeminent network

9:53

for examining UFO claims. And I

9:55

gotta say they do have some

9:57

really interesting statistics because they're able

9:59

to give numbers like here's how

10:01

many come from the Pacific Northwest. Going

10:04

back to his bio, Mark

10:06

is CEO of FX Models.

10:08

He has done extensive work

10:10

in the film and television

10:12

arena, appearing regularly on several

10:15

networks including programs on CNN,

10:17

Discovery, Sci-Fi, History, National Geographic,

10:19

and Science channels. His efforts

10:21

creating UFO TOG2, maybe that's

10:23

UFO Tog? Oh, that would

10:25

make sense. UFO Tog. Yeah,

10:28

a remote UFO detection system with

10:30

Douglas Trumbull, oh that's interesting,

10:32

another visual effects big name,

10:35

promises to bring ufology into the 21st

10:37

century. As a

10:40

photo analyst, his unique blend

10:42

of astronomical UFO and computer

10:44

generated model making backgrounds come

10:46

together in utilizing advanced software tool

10:48

sets to coax data out of

10:51

the imagery. Okay. So

10:53

already I'm thinking, wow, okay, so

10:55

we've got the TV personality who's

10:57

into disclosure and is

10:59

on enough alien documentaries. I'm picturing

11:01

that Ben is going to be

11:03

kind of wild with the claims

11:06

but that we're going to have this astronomer

11:08

there and person working in the

11:10

visual effects industry who's maybe going to try to

11:12

ground it a little more. That's what

11:14

I'm expecting. Also, I feel the word

11:17

utilizing and utilize is

11:19

overutilized. You'd

11:21

like to just say use. Use is

11:24

usually fine. I think utilizing is supposed

11:26

to be specifically for using something not

11:28

quite to its intended purpose. Oh,

11:31

makes it useful despite the

11:33

situation. I utilize the laser

11:36

pointer to scare away the

11:38

bear. All right. All right.

11:40

That's it. I'm not going to die

11:42

on the hill. Don't write me about it. Just throwing that

11:44

out there. I won't write you about it. Just letting

11:46

you know if you write something and I see that

11:48

you used utilize, I'm going to scrutinize your utilize and

11:51

be like, was that necessary? Is

11:53

it really utilized? I'm fine. All right. So

11:56

when I got there at 809, 809 p.m., it was still

11:58

pretty. bright out.

12:00

Yeah. Like the sky is, you

12:03

would just say blue, maybe a

12:05

cerulean blue. But it's, you

12:07

can see around. Yeah, you're not gonna trip over

12:09

anything, that's for sure. It feels like dusk. So

12:11

could be just a combination of time of the

12:14

year and we're in the desert and lots of

12:16

light pollution as we've talked about. But they put

12:18

out a bunch of chairs in front of a

12:20

screen and... I see one star. This one? Yeah.

12:23

Yeah, the moon. Mm-hmm. And the moon was out

12:25

and pretty full which is also not helpful for

12:27

star viewing for sure. So they have all these

12:29

white chairs and then we learned those are

12:31

the free chairs. So you're welcome to come here.

12:33

You don't have to pay anything to sit in

12:35

those chairs. Okay. But if you want to sit

12:37

over here to the right, closer to the building,

12:40

you can sit in a lounge chair

12:42

and pay $5. Oh, to recline? Yes,

12:44

and to get some of these night

12:49

vision binoculars. Ah,

12:51

okay. And be looking up at the sky that

12:53

way while he talks. And I guess you get

12:55

the chair for like 20 minutes for your five bucks.

12:57

Okay. So I went and sat in the free chairs

12:59

because, well, first of all, I can't even see

13:02

anything right now. But I stayed there because there

13:04

was just no point at which I felt like

13:06

this would be a value add if I could

13:08

be looking at the sky with night vision goggles,

13:10

right? Okay. And the reclining wasn't worth it to

13:12

you. Yeah, I declined to recline. No, that... I

13:14

mean, that would be the selling point to me.

13:16

Oh, really? Yeah. I'll pay $5 to recline. I'm

13:18

not saying I go for it, but that'd be the

13:20

selling point. Okay. I'd be like, how tired am I?

13:22

This has been two hours for cutting

13:24

chairs. That was nice. Okay. So it

13:26

took a while for people to join,

13:28

but we had like a few dozen

13:30

people by the time everyone came in,

13:32

I'd say, you know, maybe like 50

13:34

people or something like that spread between

13:37

those two different locations. And the line

13:39

did form like people were waiting to

13:41

get the binoculars. So it looks like

13:43

a wedding. Totally. I would believe that

13:45

outdoor wedding. Yeah. There's palm trees, of

13:47

course, were in the desert, even this

13:49

kind of a conference resort desert,

13:51

and then some trees that probably don't belong

13:53

in the desert. But yeah, it's nice and

13:55

you've got a green lawn. Anyways, I show

13:58

up there. It's still pretty bright and... They're

14:00

hooking up Ben's iPhone to the screen

14:02

so that you can see what he's

14:04

looking through. Okay. And then the iPhone

14:07

is attached to a night

14:09

vision scope. Okay. He brags about it and says like,

14:11

oh, this is generation three. This is the best you

14:13

can get. As far as we know, that's available to

14:16

the public. There might be something better in the military,

14:18

you know, but this is classy. And, you know, he

14:20

sells this stuff. So later on, he'll tell us like,

14:22

oh, if you want to buy some of these binoculars,

14:24

let me know. I think you have to like place

14:27

in a minimum order of five or I don't know,

14:29

there was something. This whole thing about him

14:31

selling gears. It

14:33

was I mean, it's enterprising, I guess, but it feels

14:35

a little music manny. Unexpected

14:39

pitch. I didn't see that coming for sure. So

14:42

I was just talking with people around

14:44

me and overhearing conversations. But eventually, it

14:47

was starting to get dark enough, maybe

14:49

around 830, where he said, okay, well,

14:51

let's get started. And we've got a

14:53

documentary filming. So there will be cameras

14:55

around here. If you're uncomfortable with that,

14:58

let somebody know. But it's a

15:00

documentary by Caroline Corey. Oh,

15:03

she's so beautiful. Yes,

15:05

she is. And we

15:07

talked about her in a previous episode

15:10

and how much Jimmy Church likes to

15:12

reference how beautiful she is. Openly, openly

15:14

flirts with her, right? I'm

15:16

not just a huge weirdo. Carrie

15:21

is a huge weirdo and so much

15:23

more. Thank you. So the audience was

15:26

quite excited like, oh, film by Caroline

15:28

Corey. And apparently, they've collaborated before then

15:30

was like, I think this is like our third

15:32

project. I wonder

15:34

how much of that is the Hollywood disclosure

15:37

alliance hooking it up. Yeah, because Danny

15:39

Sheehan's there. Yeah, everybody's in their pocket. Mm hmm.

15:41

This conference, the Dolan's and hopefully I show up

15:43

in the documentary somewhere. I don't know. Oh, yeah,

15:45

cool. Hope so. He also warns us, you know,

15:47

we're going to be pointing out things that we

15:50

see in the sky. Feel free to use laser

15:52

pointers. Of course, if it's a plane, do not

15:54

point it at the plane. I've repeated this myself

15:56

many times, but just him in the moment saying

15:59

that made me want to go look

16:01

up. Is that actually true? Because people say

16:03

you know you can get in big trouble

16:05

and always think how would they actually find

16:07

out and also if you have a low

16:10

wattage you know like a five milliwatt laser

16:12

what's it really gonna do from that distance?

16:14

It can be so diffused at that point.

16:17

Yeah I would hope they

16:19

wouldn't sell them if I could point it

16:21

up at a plane and crash it. Yeah

16:23

the idea is that it can be

16:25

either very distracting to the pilots if

16:27

it reflects into the cockpit or even

16:29

blind them. Right yeah I would hope

16:31

they wouldn't sell that. And Ben was

16:34

saying like don't do it it's a

16:36

felony. I think it was because he

16:38

said it was a felony I thought

16:40

okay I should actually check this out.

16:42

Sure enough on the FAA.gov website they

16:44

say that it is a federal crime.

16:46

Wow! And pilots are encouraged to report

16:48

incidents and I still I wonder like

16:50

how many can they actually figure out

16:52

who's shown the laser? Yeah no kidding. Shine

16:54

the laser but apparently there were 13,304 incidents

16:56

reported in 2023. Whoa!

17:01

Which was like way up on

17:03

the numbers they showed the numbers

17:05

went back to 2016 and

17:08

the chart I saw the lowest per year was 5,663

17:10

incidents in 2018. Okay so are any

17:15

of these actually hurting anybody? It

17:18

was enough that it was noticed and

17:20

reported. Uh-huh. Which is crazy. So the

17:22

agency takes enforcement action against people who

17:24

violate federal aviation regulations by shining lasers

17:27

at aircraft and can impose civil penalties

17:29

of up to $11,000 per violation. The

17:31

FAA has

17:34

imposed civil penalties up to $30,800 against people for

17:36

multiple laser incidents.

17:40

But has this hurt one person? That

17:42

I cannot prove I have not seen.

17:44

Huh. I mean it's starting to sound

17:46

like such a large number that I'm like I think

17:48

we've just proved it safe. Well we certainly would hear

17:50

of it if a plane was

17:53

downed for that reason. Yeah. But apparently

17:55

it's enough of a problem that truly

17:58

it is a federal crime. So don't do that. Yeah,

18:00

well, don't do it. Just don't go. You're going to, I don't

18:03

want you to go to jail listener. I

18:05

think we proved it safe. That's

18:07

what I hear. Because planes don't go down.

18:09

Yeah. Like, so there's like all these

18:12

tens of thousands of reports and no

18:14

harm. But the harm

18:16

could be just annoyance and or eye

18:18

damage to pilots, which wouldn't result in

18:20

a fatality. But I'm asking about any

18:22

harm, any harm. Oh, I don't know.

18:24

I haven't looked into that specifically, so

18:26

I wouldn't rule it out. Yeah. Okay.

18:28

It's obviously not a good thing to

18:30

do. So Ben was saying that we're

18:32

going to just talk about different categories

18:34

of things you see in the sky.

18:36

There's going to be manmade things, natural

18:38

things, and then what remains are

18:40

things that we're not sure about. And those

18:43

are good categories. And he said, I've often

18:45

taken video of things or seen something and

18:47

then later on realized, Oh, this was a

18:49

bat or this was a spy satellite. And

18:52

my job isn't to take the fun out of

18:54

it, but I brought an astronomer along and he

18:57

can do that for us. You know, that was

18:59

kind of the implication and we'll, we'll kind of

19:01

go back and forth as we talk. And he

19:03

knows more about all the planets and the stars,

19:05

that kind of stuff. I don't know anything about

19:07

that. So that's Mark's territory. Okay.

19:09

Okay. Yeah. I guess I just figured people

19:12

who were into UFOs and stuff would automatically

19:14

be into astronomy, but I guess that's

19:16

wrong. I see a fair amount of

19:18

separation there. Certainly someone who's into astrology.

19:20

I should hope that they're pretty good.

19:22

That's true. Astronomy, which I think we've

19:25

talked about before is so backwards. Really

19:27

the term for the science part should

19:29

be astrology and they just got

19:31

it first. Ah, well, what are you going to do?

19:33

Call it astronomy. Yeah. So then Ben

19:36

said that he and Mark had been

19:38

friends for a long time and that

19:40

they'd worked together on a documentary, quote

19:42

unquote, I don't know what

19:45

to call this thing called alien invasion

19:47

Hudson Valley. Ooh. Okay. So at the

19:49

time I thought interesting, but I watched

19:51

it recently. Boy, do I have

19:53

stories to tell you about that. Okay. You're putting your

19:55

fingers in a temple. And then he said,

19:58

uh, and we worked on something else together

20:00

and Mark. said we did. And finally he

20:02

thought about and said, Oh, you know what,

20:04

my show UFO witness, I brought you in

20:06

as an expert on one episode. Okay. Oh,

20:08

okay. Okay. I watched that as well. It's such

20:10

an incestuous little group. I mean, everybody's just this show

20:12

back on this show and then go back on her

20:15

show and go back on his show and go back

20:17

to the conference and now it's gonna tell the conference

20:19

and now you got to go see so-and-so's talk, who

20:21

records so-and-so's talk, who recommends so-and-so's podcast.

20:23

Totally. Though when I think of that,

20:25

I also immediately think you could easily

20:27

say that about say the skeptical community, the

20:29

pro-science community. Oh, absolutely. Incestuous as well.

20:31

You know, you find the same speakers.

20:33

It's a smaller group and they don't

20:35

get nearly as much airtime. But yeah, you're

20:38

right. Once you know about these people,

20:40

you see them everywhere. And that's been

20:42

kind of a fun part of this podcast

20:44

is just one by one adding little

20:46

lights to my understanding of who these

20:48

people are and their unique contributions to this.

20:51

And seeing new characters emerge, like, twin rays

20:53

emerge into our lives. Really, bold us over.

20:55

Didn't expect what a big splash they'd make

20:57

on arrival. Yeah, when that one broke the

21:00

horizon. And sometimes by the end of a

21:02

lecture, you're like, whoa, okay, you're gonna be

21:04

part of my email feed from now on.

21:06

I'm gonna be checking your Instagram and whoo,

21:09

you're one to watch. Yeah, Cher Jolene

21:11

is another one. Laurie

21:14

Spania, I'll always be watching her content.

21:16

Oh yeah, Kimberly Meredith. Yeah, it is.

21:18

Yeah, yeah. Shocking Tolly will be looking at

21:20

her every once in a while forever. The

21:22

ideas are important, but obviously the people

21:24

are really where this all comes from.

21:27

And the popularity of an idea can really

21:29

rise and fall with the personality of its

21:32

proponents. Yeah, and you never know what will

21:34

come out of their face. Exactly.

21:37

So we're starting to see more lights in

21:39

the sky. At first, you just had like

21:41

one bright one and then asked him, Hey,

21:43

Mark, what's that? And Mark said, that's Venus.

21:46

Okay, that already kind of tells us that

21:48

Ben isn't like super adapted identifying things in

21:51

the sky. If he didn't immediately know like

21:53

that's Venus. And was it Venus? Could you?

21:55

Oh, it was. Okay. Oh, yes, I would

21:57

have no idea. Well, in the next anecdote.

22:00

I shall reveal that I had already pulled

22:02

out my phone and I have three star

22:04

viewing apps But the one I always recommend

22:06

to people is Stellarium. Okay, I think it's

22:08

ten bucks, but I would say totally worth

22:10

it I

22:12

you and I you and okay and there

22:15

was another light that everyone started looking at go Oh,

22:18

oh, this one's not an airplane

22:20

cuz it's bright, but it's moving

22:22

and it's not blinking It doesn't

22:24

have like the green usually blink

22:26

Yeah, but it seemed unusually bright

22:28

and so had my theory but

22:30

I pull out Stellarium and I look and

22:32

yep It's the ISS. So I shouted that

22:34

out at International Space Station Yeah, that's the

22:36

International Space Station. So they had a little

22:38

bit of debate about that for a second

22:40

Are you sure that is and Mark started

22:42

telling facts about it the astronauts

22:44

on the ISS? They see the sunrise 16

22:47

times a day Yeah, well that

22:49

is crazy to think about yeah it is and to the

22:52

lady next to me I said, oh, yeah, and that thing's

22:54

traveling nearly 17 and a half

22:56

thousand miles per hour. She's like, huh? Wow, did

22:58

you know that well? That's the speed that things

23:00

that stay in orbit to have to travel

23:02

at and the mark was pointing out that

23:04

like it's gonna disappear Shortly because it's gonna

23:06

fall into the shadow of the earth and

23:08

you know all good info So already the

23:10

ISS like we don't disappear. Oh, you'll wonder

23:12

like Metaphorically,

23:16

okay. Got it. Why did it stop shining

23:18

as far as we know? It'll just blink

23:21

out of existence Oh, I because it will

23:23

fall into the shadow. So then Ben goes

23:25

back to introducing other categories of things Sometimes

23:28

you'll see something on the camera that looks like

23:30

maybe a giant moth moving around That's

23:32

usually a bat and I haven't seen

23:34

any in this location yet But something

23:36

that'll show up often in your UFO

23:38

sighting footage Ben was also encouraging us

23:40

to shout out if we see something

23:42

It's okay to interrupt and just try

23:45

to use like the cardinal directions tell

23:47

us this is north or this is

23:49

south And also point

23:51

out degrees off the horizon So, you know

23:53

0 to 90 45 is halfway So

23:56

that was useful info as well and then he went

23:58

off on a little bender about

24:00

these night vision goggles and how

24:02

white phosphorus is better because it

24:05

lasts longer and you might

24:07

have better contrast with it. That's what I'm always saying. Yeah,

24:09

I didn't realize at the time that he was gonna be

24:11

trying to sell us these things later. No,

24:14

it all makes sense. And then he started quizzing

24:16

us. They were talking about like which direction you

24:18

launch satellites. You launch them to the east. So

24:20

you're using the rotation of the earth to help

24:22

you out rather than going against it. I

24:25

didn't know that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Again,

24:27

more useful information. He was talking a bit

24:29

about how the star link satellites might

24:31

launch east but then have little corrections

24:33

to get them into a different orbit.

24:36

Which is crazy that they can do that. Yeah, right?

24:39

Yeah, completely. Just the proliferation in

24:41

recent years. I would say even

24:43

between that last contact in the

24:45

desert and now the

24:47

number of objects, manmade objects in the sky

24:50

has I would say gone up like an

24:52

order of magnitude. Is that true? Wow. Yeah,

24:54

I mean, I feel like there's so many

24:56

things up there now where it used to

24:58

be every now and then you could spot

25:00

a satellite if you were paying close attention.

25:02

And now it's just almost all the time.

25:04

If you're looking carefully, you can be like,

25:06

oh, there's a satellite, oh, there's another satellite,

25:08

follow that. So we're just gonna get more

25:10

and more and more UFO reports then. That's

25:12

right. Unless all the UFO enthusiasts

25:14

are attending talks like this where so far

25:16

they're doing a yeoman's job of helping people

25:19

identify other things it could be. Yeah, okay.

25:21

And this seems to be Mark's job because

25:23

he's constantly giving us little stories about a

25:25

report that was submitted to him. And usually

25:27

the moral of the story is, I

25:30

mean, kind of like Scooby-Doo where the moral of

25:32

the story is always, it was the guy wearing

25:34

the mask. All of

25:36

the stories seem to end up with, that

25:39

was actually this thing, it was actually that thing. I

25:41

think I have never seen a whole episode of

25:43

Scooby-Doo. Whoa. I

25:45

don't know how it happened because I know that

25:48

that's the deal. Yeah. I think I'd be into

25:50

it. Girl with big glasses. Oh, and it's

25:52

the right era. Yeah, a dog is

25:54

the star. Every single

25:56

paranormal happening is better explained

25:58

by humans. The dog

26:00

and his drug using hippie

26:02

owner, human. Yeah,

26:06

it's a good aesthetic that I feel would be

26:08

totally up carries out. Yeah, yeah. What's

26:10

going on here? What's not happening yet? I don't know.

26:12

I gotta do it, right? There's like a character where

26:14

there's a scarf all the time. Right, she got

26:17

big glasses, right? Yeah, come on.

26:19

How has this not happened? And a

26:21

dog is the star. A dog. Right,

26:23

yeah, what's the disconnect? Yeah,

26:25

maybe we just need to sit down and watch it

26:27

together. I feel like I have so

26:29

many of these things where you don't need to convince

26:32

me that I'll like something. I just haven't gotten around

26:34

to seeing it yet. Oh sure, but you've never seen

26:36

Breaking Bad. I've seen all of Breaking Bad and I

26:38

have seen all of Better Calls All. How dare you?

26:41

But I don't know why you refuse to watch

26:43

Midnight Mass. Oh yeah, yeah, Beowulf wants me to

26:46

watch that too. I

26:48

don't have a TV, that's why. I don't have a TV

26:50

right now. What happened? Oh, we

26:53

kept our TV in the garage and the

26:55

garage flooded. All right. We destroyed. Oh. You

26:58

have a computer. I do have a computer. Yeah.

27:01

Yeah, but it's just changed my watching habits.

27:03

Sure, understandable. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

27:05

Yeah, shoot, I feel like yesterday

27:07

I was having a conversation about

27:09

something that I was fully convinced,

27:11

yes, I know I need to watch that. You

27:14

don't need to convince me. I realize I need to watch

27:16

it as well and for whatever reason, my brain won't give

27:18

it to me right now. So I get where you're at with

27:20

Scooby Doo. But in

27:22

this case, I feel like so far, they are

27:24

the Scooby Doo of UFO watching. I feel like

27:26

this all feels very responsible. Okay, great. There's

27:30

an airplane passing overhead, not a UFO. UFOs don't

27:32

make that kind of noise. I

27:34

don't know. We're not looking at it. We're not looking.

27:37

That's funny. Speaking of which, right at that

27:39

moment, Ben said, if I

27:42

hear about a sighting and someone's telling me

27:44

that it has the properties of a plane,

27:46

if it made a sound that sounded like

27:48

a plane, if it blinked like a plane,

27:50

it's not gonna convince me that you saw

27:52

a UFO. Now, I

27:54

guess we could argue that a UFO

27:57

could mimic any of those things. But...

28:00

He didn't say like Occam's razor, but you know,

28:02

why would I jump to that conclusion? Yeah good

28:04

in principle, but man, I

28:06

watched a Ben pants and

28:08

video Before you got to

28:11

my house that makes me think he's not

28:13

as good about following what he said So

28:16

we're gonna talk about Ben the star

28:18

party host and then we're gonna talk

28:20

about Ben the TV personality Okay,

28:22

these are two very different bends interesting

28:24

Interesting but yeah at this point he's just

28:27

saying that would be a good disguise if

28:29

the aliens wanted to have a disguise They

28:31

could pretend to be a plane and we'd

28:33

roll them out pretty easily For

28:36

all of our aliens listening. There's a good

28:38

way to fool all of us. Just blink

28:40

a green light on one side And make

28:43

yourself a decoy plane. Yeah, exactly. And this

28:45

is an interesting point he made He said

28:47

my theory is that UFOs want

28:49

to be seen because if

28:52

they wanted to cloak they could there's no

28:54

reason why they need to Be emitting light

28:56

all the time. Okay, fair and I thought

28:58

wow, I like that They could be stealth

29:00

but they are choosing for us to see

29:02

them. Yeah, although I Guess

29:05

I assumed that they still have to use

29:08

lights like it's still expect them to have

29:10

eyes and respond to light Yeah, and

29:12

to be reflective Yeah But I guess

29:14

we're just assuming a certain lumping of

29:16

technology if you've mastered the technology to

29:19

sail through Interstellar space and you're here.

29:21

You can also cloak yourself You use

29:23

something other than vision maybe to guide

29:25

you. Yeah, or you know enough of

29:28

optics to counteract optics or you know

29:30

They okay. Somehow you could make us

29:32

unaware of your presence if you wanted

29:34

to the same principle kind of

29:37

apply to a satellite Yeah, they could move like a

29:39

satellite if they wanted to just in a straight line It

29:41

would be hard to tell the difference But if

29:44

you see something in the air that's moving like a

29:46

satellite and then it starts turning rapidly If

29:49

it like starts making a tight curve or it

29:51

goes at a right degree angle Something

29:53

you should pay attention to he also

29:56

addressed apps because I just like shouted

29:58

out with my app input He said,

30:00

they're good. I highly recommend that

30:02

you all use apps. I'll have one to recommend

30:04

later. Just be aware, none of these can be

30:06

complete. There's so many objects out there. And

30:09

the estimate they threw out was over 30,000 pieces

30:12

of manmade objects that could light

30:14

up that we would see them.

30:16

Right. Yeah. Almost

30:18

feels hard to hit an alien. Yeah. It

30:21

feels like I'd be more likely to hit

30:23

a manmade object. And the principle was sound.

30:25

If it doesn't show up in your app,

30:27

that doesn't mean it's there for a UFO.

30:29

Sure. And they said Elon

30:31

Musk... Well, it kind of does though. It's still unidentified

30:33

to you. Sure. Yes, absolutely. But

30:35

in parlance, we're all talking about something we

30:37

suspect to be of alien technology. He

30:40

mentioned that Elon Musk, as a shorthand

30:42

for SpaceX, has launched over 4,000 satellites

30:46

already. That's crazy. Yeah.

30:49

Bonkers. And the car. So

30:51

then Ben tells us the story of the

30:53

very first UFO he ever saw. And

30:56

this one, he was on a cruise in

30:58

the Caribbean. Okay. He was working

31:00

in Florida and he was with his buddy and they

31:02

were both single at the time and thought, hey, maybe

31:04

we can meet some ladies if we go out on

31:07

this cruise. And he said, this was... I don't mean

31:09

to offend anybody. It was the real Walmart of cruise

31:11

ships. Then someone chimed

31:13

in. He's like, no, no, no, not Carnival. I

31:15

actually like Carnival. Oh, I wonder what

31:18

it was. I know. Yeah. Norwegian?

31:20

Wouldn't be princess. It would not

31:23

be princess. Okay. They're top here. I've heard

31:25

the Disney ones are quite good. Yeah. I've

31:28

heard the Disney ones. Okay. I think it'd

31:30

be too much. My boss Tracy just did her first

31:32

cruise and it was on a Disney cruise and she's

31:34

like, oh yeah, it was top of the line. Okay.

31:37

Well, you know, princess owns the love boat.

31:40

Oh, okay. Well, and my cousin Leah

31:42

worked for princess for many years. Oh,

31:45

that's right. Hi, Leah. AKA Princess Leah.

31:48

And this would be constant. So he's

31:50

like telling this story and then it just

31:52

totally gets railroaded for a while because we

31:55

were all looking intently at the sky

31:57

and then all of a sudden people start

31:59

like shouting. because we're

32:01

not seeing just one satellite, we're seeing another

32:03

satellite pop up behind it, and another, and

32:05

another, and another. And it's like this string

32:07

of what ends up being like 20 to

32:10

30 satellites following

32:12

each other through the air. And

32:14

now most of us have come to recognize

32:17

that as Starlink. It was an early launch

32:19

of Starlink. We keep mentioning

32:21

Starlink, that's from SpaceX, Elon Musk's one

32:23

of his companies, and these

32:25

are internet satellites. Oh, okay. The idea is

32:28

to provide this worldwide network so you can

32:30

get internet anywhere, and they're just

32:32

constantly cycling through the sky, some

32:35

in polar orbit, and when they first

32:37

launch, they're all together and then over

32:39

time they kind of space out. Okay.

32:43

It is truly astonishing because, I mean,

32:45

for all of history, when we see

32:47

things in the sky, you know, they're

32:49

not usually forming these very human shapes,

32:51

like a string of dots.

32:54

It's weird to see in the air. So,

32:56

yeah, everybody gets all wild about that. I

33:00

think my friends, Aline and Heather, saw

33:02

something like this at a

33:04

beach bonfire party I was at. Oh, okay. Because

33:07

I remember they were both so captivated by it, and I remember

33:09

thinking like, oh, this is the kind of thing Ross

33:12

would remember to look at, but it's just not

33:15

even registering for me. And then they were

33:18

both screaming, and then Heather was like, Carrie,

33:20

where's your wonder? And I was like, oh, fuck,

33:22

okay. He keyed in, keyed in. Oh,

33:25

my God. Didn't know the sticks were so

33:27

high. Okay, yes, you're right. That's a UFO. But,

33:29

yeah, I just feel like things moving in

33:31

the sky, I just, like, I don't know.

33:34

It's like, of course, why would that be

33:36

an alien? Why would that be an alien? I

33:39

don't know. That's just why immediate reaction. Well, and it

33:41

might just be interesting in and of itself as

33:44

a celestial phenomenon or as an

33:46

atmospheric phenomenon without even thinking of aliens. A

33:49

bird, maybe. I mean, theoretically, if

33:51

society all kind of caught on, like, it's probably not

33:53

aliens. There'd

33:55

still be really cool stuff to look at in the sky. Birds. Sure.

33:59

I do like birds. Well, we're talking

34:01

the day after there was just

34:03

like a major coronal mass ejection

34:06

from the sun. Oh yeah. And

34:08

like the aurora borealis expanded. The northern

34:11

light. Yeah, so that essentially all of

34:13

the US could see, even like down

34:15

to Texas and Florida, people were seeing

34:17

lights up in the sky of the

34:20

aurora borealis. I didn't see anything. Yeah,

34:22

frickin Los Angeles sent in this huge

34:24

cloud cover. I

34:26

don't know who ordered that, but I didn't

34:29

see diddly squat. Man, I saw these pictures

34:31

and I was like, this is so much

34:33

better than the eclipse. Why did the sun

34:35

even try with that dumbest eclipse? This is

34:37

so much better. Well, the eclipse we could

34:39

see coming, you know, decades,

34:41

but this one, no predicting that that we

34:43

just happened to be down the barrel of

34:45

the sun shooting out a bunch of material.

34:48

So yeah, I was so bummed because my

34:50

wife and I went to Iceland a few

34:52

years back and we had booked

34:54

an excursion to go see the northern lights.

34:56

So it's like a great place to see

34:58

them. It was overcast. So they booked us

35:00

for the next night. It was overcast. We

35:02

never got to see them. And

35:05

so finally they're coming to me in LA still

35:07

can't see them. Oh boy. Yeah.

35:10

So I'm somewhere in between. I haven't traveled

35:12

to another state to go see an eclipse

35:14

more clearly or anything like that. Maybe

35:17

in the future. Who knows? Oh,

35:20

okay. A lot of my friends did

35:22

and get like super excited. These phenomenon, I won't be

35:24

like, you know, I won't be as attentive, but then

35:26

all of my science loving friends will get super excited

35:28

and I'll get caught up in the excitement a bit.

35:32

You gave me some of those glasses to look at the sun. Oh

35:34

my God, I couldn't do it. It hurts too much. Oh

35:36

really? Even looking through that

35:38

intense dimming. Amazing. Yeah, I

35:40

think Drew found it painful too. Shout out to

35:42

my friend, Lee for handing me a bunch of

35:45

glasses. That's why I was so generous passing them

35:47

off to others. Anyways, the real lesson here is

35:49

lots of interesting stuff in the sky. If you're

35:51

looking at the sky and sometimes she's like

35:53

a shuttle launch or a satellite launch can

35:56

look super crazy as well. I remember I

35:58

was at camp one year. year camp

36:00

omni, sign up camp omni.org. Send

36:03

me an email. You get money. We were

36:05

with the kids and there was this object

36:07

coming toward us. And my first thought was

36:09

it looked like a comet and it was

36:11

kind of freaked out. This felt very apocalyptic,

36:13

this giant object in the sky, super bright

36:16

with this big dramatic tail coming off of

36:18

it in all directions and the kids are

36:20

all freaking out and we're all yelling. And

36:22

then we put it together that there was

36:24

an air force base nearby and it was

36:27

actually yet another space X launch. That

36:29

didn't happen. The timing worked out perfectly. You'll

36:33

notice a theme to this story. They're putting

36:36

a lot of stuff in the sky and

36:38

Mark chimed in and said like, Oh, at

36:40

move on, I get so many reports about

36:42

star link. So presumably over time, this will

36:45

just sort of seep into the popular consciousness

36:47

and people will know what's going on. Or

36:49

maybe they'll stop launching quite so many once

36:51

they have their network all set up anyway,

36:54

so he gets back to his story on

36:56

the cruise ship. So he was chatting up

36:58

this one lady and while they

37:00

were talking, she said, what's that? And so

37:02

he looks over at the sky where she's

37:05

pointing and Ben says, Oh, okay, well, it

37:07

looks like a satellite, but then it made

37:10

an S turn like, oh, okay. He had gotten

37:12

the impression that it was high enough in the

37:14

sky that it was a satellite, but now all

37:16

of a sudden it's making like a snaking motion

37:19

and then doing little spirals. So he

37:21

said, maybe it's a bird. I

37:23

don't know, but it felt like it was farther away than that. I

37:26

can't explain what it was. And he was willing to just

37:29

leave it there. Ben made

37:31

another good point. You know, we often and

37:33

myself included will kind of pick on people

37:35

for saying like, Hey, you've got phones in

37:37

your pockets. Why don't we have more images

37:40

of these things? And he said, you know,

37:42

sometimes there's a sighting and an average one

37:44

might last like four seconds and

37:47

it's not enough time to quickly pull

37:49

out the phone properly aiming, you know,

37:51

by that time it's gone. Okay,

37:53

that is a fair point. You could miss

37:55

a lot. If it's something individual level, it's a

37:57

fair point. Yeah, but exactly in aggregate, we

37:59

should. expect a lot more quality. It's been

38:02

a while and people are still like, here's

38:04

a grainy photo that we took in 1992. And

38:08

let me just say, I highly encourage all

38:10

of you, if you do see something weird

38:12

in the sky, yes, pull out the camera,

38:14

start taking a video, but give a little

38:16

bit of context first before you zoom in.

38:18

Make sure your video includes a little bit

38:20

of your surroundings, where you are, the scale

38:23

of things, because when it's just a video

38:25

that's just zoomed in on the sky and

38:27

it's grainy, you just got nothing to work

38:29

with there. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Give us

38:31

a little more. People think they're adding information

38:33

by zooming in like that, but not necessarily.

38:35

Yeah, at least start, give us an

38:38

establishing shot. Then it'll be ready for

38:40

its close up. You want wide,

38:42

medium, tight. Tied,

38:45

medium, wide. Exactly. They

38:47

called us this in grad school. Give the investigators something

38:49

to latch onto. And he made another

38:51

fair point, which is that for the

38:53

most part, they keep getting better at

38:56

this, but for the most part, phone

38:58

cameras don't handle low lighting very well.

39:00

Sure. Fair. So this is

39:02

where he starts telling one of his

39:04

other UFO stories, which is when he

39:06

was jogging in Huntington Beach and this

39:08

black triangle flew overhead. Okay, I heard

39:11

about this on his interview. Yeah, so

39:13

Kerry found this YouTube clip of him

39:15

on another show talking about this in

39:17

a lot more detail, which is super

39:20

helpful. But he said this was one

39:22

of those examples where he has a

39:25

business selling night vision stuff, but he

39:27

was out jogging. He didn't have night

39:29

vision equipment on him and

39:31

like a camera rig and everything. So he was chagrined

39:33

at this like, oh, everyone's going to be mad. I'm

39:35

going to tell them the story that I saw this

39:37

thing and I wasn't able to capture

39:39

it and I should be the guy. He got

39:41

to make jogging friendly by now. Yeah,

39:44

and he says now I scrupulously

39:46

always have night vision. Okay. But

39:49

it was like this triangular thing. And he mentioned

39:51

black triangle, like it's this kind of classification of

39:53

UFO that I guess a lot of people report

39:56

seeing, but he said that it came

39:58

over the ocean toward him. over

40:00

his head and it was completely silent

40:02

and he had a friend there with

40:04

him who had been at the experience

40:06

and he didn't mention her here but

40:08

he did in the YouTube interview and

40:10

that she corroborated many details of features

40:12

of the craft or like these white

40:14

structures and stuff and disagreed on others.

40:17

But yeah, it seemed like he was being kind

40:19

of responsible on how he reported on it and

40:21

his conclusion was, I still don't know what that

40:23

was. Yeah, she had seen it from a distance

40:25

more than he does ever both obviously at a

40:27

distance. And he had

40:30

like some pretty intricate details about

40:32

it compared to her. Hers was more basic

40:34

I think. But yeah,

40:37

what I really loved about the interview version

40:39

is that he gets into

40:41

such finite detail on these two hosts.

40:43

It's clearly their jam so they're so

40:45

into it. They want every last detail.

40:48

It's very fun to watch. But

40:50

then near the end he basically says, or it

40:52

could be a plane. And I

40:54

was like, well, yeah. Yeah, or it

40:56

could be a plane. That actually seems

40:58

like the obvious version. Just

41:01

everything he described, I was like,

41:03

that sounds like a plane. That sounds like a plane. Oh,

41:05

okay. That sounds like a

41:07

plane. I feel like he had enough specificity

41:09

there to raise the possibility that it wasn't

41:12

a plane. But yeah, sure,

41:14

of course, it could always be a

41:16

plane. But at least in that interview,

41:18

he was still being fairly circumspect about

41:20

it. Sure, yeah. I mean, the bar

41:22

is low. But it's still just

41:24

a basic question. They're like, should I

41:27

even be thinking about this question for

41:29

me? I kind of asked and

41:31

answered on that. I'm like, oh, yeah, probably

41:33

a plane. Okay. Anyway.

41:36

At least keep it in the running for sure. Or even make it

41:38

your default explanation. But I'm all for the

41:40

stories. It's always frustrating when there's no way

41:42

to replicate it. And he was even saying

41:44

in that interview that he called his dad

41:46

and said, hey, dad, pull up this website

41:48

where you can see weather patterns to me

41:50

how high the clouds are. And

41:53

this will come up later. There's also apps for

41:55

like tracking plane flights. So if you happen to

41:57

know there's a plane in a certain area, well,

41:59

I'll bring it up now like plainfinder.net.

42:02

Mick West told me about great tool and

42:04

you can see whenever I hear like a

42:06

helicopter nearby or a plane that's making a

42:08

lot of noise when I'm at home, I'll

42:10

just pull up the website real quick and

42:12

I can instantly see, oh, okay, there's this

42:14

commercial airliner. Oh, there's that stupid helicopter. Why

42:16

is it looping around? Go away. All

42:19

right. Well, speaking of aliens,

42:21

Linda Moulton Howe, famous ufologist. Yes.

42:24

She loves cats. Good for her. Do you

42:26

see where I'm going with this? You're telling

42:29

us that there are very good things about

42:31

Linda Moulton Howe like her cat liking. Yes.

42:35

Tendencies. I have two cats.

42:37

You have a cat and oh my God,

42:39

I just realized this episode is actually sponsored

42:41

by a cat company. What?

42:44

Do they make a product that would

42:47

make cat ownership more convenient and delightful?

42:49

Yes, exactly. They make the litter

42:52

robot. Now you guys, if you

42:54

don't know about the litter robot

42:57

and you have a cat, it

42:59

might change your life. I

43:01

told my wife about this. I said, hey,

43:03

there's this cool thing that scoops your cat's

43:06

poop for you and keeps it

43:08

looking clean and smelling nice. And

43:11

she said, oh, you mean litter robot? I was

43:13

like, oh, you know about it. And she's like,

43:16

yeah, that's really fancy though. Yes, because

43:18

they are. So Drew and

43:20

I have one for our kitties

43:22

as well. And we love our

43:24

litter robot. Drew was just pointing

43:26

out that in our tiny little

43:28

bedroom, the litter robot was next

43:30

to his head for quite some

43:32

time, several months. Oh, without any

43:34

recognition of. Yeah, with no, no,

43:37

no stinky poos. My son was

43:39

super excited when we got ours

43:41

because typically the cat box was

43:43

right next to his toilet in

43:45

the bathroom. And now

43:48

it is elsewhere. Okay. And

43:50

this is like a large

43:52

welcoming circle, a sphere that

43:55

has the kitty litter in it. And then

43:57

your cat jumps in, does their thing. and

44:00

they jump out and then it's like, the weight

44:02

of the gut is gone. I'm going to wait

44:04

three minutes. And then it does the slow spin

44:06

cycle and all

44:08

of the litter gets separated out in its

44:10

own little chamber, but as it keeps rotating,

44:14

the solid matter gets put in

44:16

the bottom of the deal with

44:18

the bag underneath it. And

44:21

then it keeps rotating and all of the

44:23

litter reenters the chamber and you're back to

44:25

square one. They self cleaning

44:27

litter box people

44:30

and it sends a notification to your phone

44:32

whenever you need to empty it. So

44:35

basically it just reduces your

44:37

litter box work by what's gotta be like

44:39

90%. Oh yeah, and

44:41

you don't have to say to your

44:43

child, have you

44:45

looked at the cat litter recently? Might need

44:47

to scoop that. Yes,

44:50

exactly. That will no longer be you.

44:53

This thing does it all on its own. Yeah,

44:55

it's quite impressive and you should heed the warning

44:58

that they give you when you watch like the

45:00

little intro video. Don't turn it on right away

45:02

because the cat needs time to get used to

45:04

it before it starts moving. Oh yes, good idea.

45:07

And even though we love to mimic the

45:09

sound, it's

45:11

quite subtle, it's actually very quiet. Yeah, it is,

45:13

very quiet, absolutely. And they also give

45:15

you like data on your phone. It'll tell

45:18

you if your cat's put not a bunch

45:20

of weight, losing a bunch of weight, weird

45:22

pee maybe. You can follow all of these

45:24

stats about your cat. And it says in

45:27

this copy that my cat will thank me,

45:29

but I really wanna follow up on this

45:31

claim. On how cats

45:33

show gratitude. Yeah, yeah, if my

45:35

cat thanks me, I will absolutely buy a

45:37

second litter. Really? Then

45:41

this is my guarantee to you.

45:43

But as a special offer to listeners

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on maximumfund.org or in

46:57

your podcast staff so

46:59

a woman asked a question at this point

47:01

and I gotta say I think most if

47:04

not all of the question askers were women

47:06

audience they were bringing good

47:08

questions and so this woman said hey

47:11

I had this sighting where like I

47:13

saw light and it would disappear and

47:15

30 seconds later it would come

47:17

back and it would disappear again 30 seconds

47:20

later it would come back okay Whitehouse that

47:22

was my first thought I thought Whitehouse but

47:24

both Ben and Mark went

47:26

in a slightly different direction they said okay

47:29

this sounds like like a

47:31

discarded rocket booster something that's

47:33

been tumbling through

47:35

near space and

47:37

it's just catching the sun at a certain

47:39

angle and then it's continuing its rotation then

47:41

it's catching the sun at an angle so

47:43

yeah especially if you're seeing it up off

47:46

of the horizon then that's seems

47:48

like a very good go to explanation and

47:51

Mark had a whole story about this about how

47:53

he was at like a boot

47:55

camp in Arizona and people are doing this

47:57

kind of meditation thing and they

47:59

were all treating this light like

48:01

it was reacting to them and he

48:04

said while they were doing this and

48:06

sort of over interpreting this he

48:09

was taking a time-lapse photo of

48:11

this path and it

48:13

showed up as this straight line

48:15

that had a bright spot blank

48:19

bright spot and it followed a straight

48:21

line and he introduced a really useful

48:23

concept here the auto

48:26

kinetic effect and this is where

48:28

if you see like a fixed

48:30

point of light or just a

48:32

small light in an otherwise blank

48:34

large area our brains will make

48:37

it move like we'll feel

48:39

like it's jumping around and that's what they

48:41

were describing now oh now it's there whoa

48:43

now it's there and probably just a combination

48:45

of us not being great tracking systems but

48:48

also and no orienting data right right

48:50

and just the the movement of our eyes

48:52

probably a lot of contributing factors but this

48:54

is like a well-known effect and after they

48:56

had made all these descriptions he just kind

48:59

of silently patiently waited and said well here

49:01

look at it photographically this thing was moving

49:03

in a straight line but it really felt

49:05

like it was jumping around didn't it

49:08

yeah like so far I'm thinking like this is the

49:10

same talk I would want to give to yeah so

49:12

far I

49:15

endorsed this and Ben was totally

49:17

down with that also he brought

49:19

up something that I mentioned after the

49:21

previous contact in the desert star viewing

49:23

party which is that people were seeing

49:26

a satellite sort of disappear into the

49:28

shadow of the earth and then emerge

49:30

going another direction what looked like a

49:32

right angle but he was pointing out

49:34

people will say this all the time

49:36

like oh I thought make a right

49:38

angle turn or disappear and stop for

49:40

a while and then go to the

49:43

right but he said those are two

49:45

different satellites probably hmm okay yeah I've

49:47

wondered about this when I hear this two lights thing

49:49

I'm like same light different light I

49:51

don't know again pulling out the camera

49:53

helps but usually as far as he's

49:55

aware that that's the explanation the Scooby-Doo

49:58

style explanation that it was one satellite

50:00

you were tracking, you lost that one, but

50:02

you gained another one and you turned them

50:04

into the same object. Yeah, that makes sense

50:06

to me. Yep. I was like, okay, nicely

50:08

explained and everything. And he said, now there

50:10

are debunkers out there who then

50:12

I think get a little too carried away with

50:15

this and just assume that anything anyone sees or

50:17

describes, you know, that it's just a misperception. This

50:20

is me. Okay, this is where I come into the chat.

50:22

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I see it. And I

50:24

assume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that it's from

50:27

this world. And when I see things

50:29

on this world, I assume it's from here.

50:32

That's just my basic. Okay. That's where

50:34

I start. That should be the null

50:36

hypothesis. That's where you start. And to

50:38

budge you from that position, we need

50:40

something compelling. Yeah, yeah. Which is, I

50:42

think, fair. Like really compelling, like,

50:45

how that this world

50:47

compelling. Which seems to be Mark's

50:49

stated stance that when he's evaluating

50:51

submissions to move on, 90 plus

50:54

percent of them, I think you gave an even

50:57

higher estimate, like, 97%

50:59

of them are going to be things

51:01

that he feels he can fairly easily

51:03

give rational explanations for. But he's very

51:05

excited about the remaining, you know, 3%

51:07

or whatever. Mark then kind of went

51:09

off on sort of a star viewing

51:11

party, like, Hey, that's Polaris. And he's

51:13

talking a bit about the Earth's procession

51:15

and however, like 26,000 years

51:17

it might be pointing at a different star that

51:19

would become our North Star like Vegas been one

51:21

before, then he's pointing out Arcturus and Virgo, you

51:24

know, this is all just star viewing stuff, which

51:26

is something we do at Camp Omni. By the

51:28

way, if you want to sign up for Camp

51:30

Omni, campomny.org. We'll

51:33

take turns like giving little pieces of a star talk.

51:35

And I'll do the first part where I do sort

51:37

of what we've done here, which is just talking about

51:39

the, well, actually, no, Brian does the different things that

51:42

you see in the sky. I do kind of the

51:44

number of stars out there and the magnitude of star.

51:46

Anyways, we take turns and we fill

51:48

out different pieces of info. So he's

51:50

doing David's part of the talk, which

51:52

is just showing certain asterisms and consolations.

51:55

Do you think this will affect your

51:57

Camp Omni astronomy talk? Oh,

52:00

I've gotten some good talking points from them. Oh,

52:02

that's nice. Yeah, I feel like some of it

52:05

I could have given. But yeah, I endorse the

52:07

star. But I won't

52:09

recount all of that. I think

52:11

a good star talk can give you some

52:13

little footholds so that when you see stars

52:15

in the sky, you can identify, oh, there's

52:17

Orion. OK, and I'm going to follow the

52:19

line of this thing to that. And

52:22

OK, now I know how this arcs

52:24

to arcturus. Yeah, that kind of. Little

52:26

details to hold onto and qualify

52:29

or disqualify your objects. Yeah, and you just

52:31

pick up more over time and feel like

52:33

you understand the sky a little better. There

52:35

was a question from a lady about black

52:37

holes. So we talked about black

52:39

holes for a while. And white holes,

52:42

I actually hadn't heard of white holes.

52:44

It's sort of a theoretical counterpart where

52:46

information from a black hole could escape

52:48

something that you can't travel to, but you can

52:50

travel from. I don't know. Wow. I didn't spend

52:53

too long looking into it. But sorry, I hadn't

52:55

heard it. Oh, yeah. So the flight tracker that

52:57

Ben was recommending is flight radar 29. And

53:00

you've got all these planes, and

53:03

they broadcast their ADS-B information. So

53:05

usually you can find out their

53:07

altitude, their height for commercial

53:09

aircraft. And of course, there are going to

53:12

be military planes and some other planes that,

53:14

for whatever reason, don't broadcast that info. But

53:16

still, you can find a lot. Again, I

53:18

recommend planefinder.net. Very useful. Spend

53:20

a lot of time there. And right at

53:22

that moment, really good timing, a woman said,

53:24

oh, constant interruptions to this talk. Oh, I

53:26

bet. Because someone said something. She said, look

53:28

at that. Look at that. I mean, it's

53:30

kind of blinking like a plane, but it's

53:32

not moving in the sky. OK. And

53:35

Mark said, oh, that probably means that it's moving

53:37

toward us. But hey, let's go look it up.

53:39

And so they did. They pulled up the website.

53:41

And they're like, oh, yeah, look, it's a Sky

53:44

West plane. They could identify exactly which flight it

53:46

was, the flight number. It's coming toward us. We

53:48

can see it on the map. Yeah, look at that. I

53:52

fully endorse this. Yeah, good job. Yeah, it's

53:54

a plane again. I

53:58

totally believe it. Debunker. Okay,

54:03

something else new that I learned. There was

54:05

a question from a woman about Black Knight

54:07

and whether it was space junk. And I

54:09

was like, what's this Black Knight? I'd never

54:11

heard of this. So apparently it's this Internet

54:15

conspiracy that there is

54:17

this spacecraft that was put

54:19

into orbit around the planet 12,000 years ago or, you know,

54:24

in the distant past and that it's

54:26

been keeping watch over us for all this time.

54:29

And apparently this all really took

54:31

off in 1994 when there was

54:33

a photo that NASA put out there

54:35

that showed this object just kind of

54:38

floating in the horizon. And I'll show

54:40

you a picture because it is pretty

54:42

compelling. So this is out

54:44

in space. Hello, cool. Yeah, there's the

54:47

shape that feels, I would

54:50

say manmade, but, you know, it doesn't look like

54:52

a natural shape. Almost reminds me

54:54

a little bit of Boba Fett's ship. Star

54:56

Wars. That's from Star Wars. But anyways,

54:58

it was pretty compelling. The photo sort

55:00

of upside down where the Earth is

55:03

on the top and then you see

55:05

this thing contrasted against the atmosphere and

55:07

then it's space underneath. So

55:09

people started making all of these conspiracies about what

55:11

it was. What is it?

55:13

And to Mark's credit, he was the one to

55:15

debunk it in that moment. He said it

55:18

was actually just a piece that

55:20

fell off the International Space Station

55:22

during a mission. It

55:24

was a thermal blanket that got loose

55:26

and was captured in that photo. And

55:28

then everybody, Oh, interesting. Can I see it again?

55:30

Now that I know it's a blanket. Yeah, not like

55:33

a blanket you would wear as a person,

55:35

but a piece of equipment that was supposed

55:37

to protect another piece of equipment. And

55:39

it got loose, oops, and tumbled through

55:42

space. And then everybody made conspiracy

55:44

theories about it. And then he talked about

55:46

why sometimes things can appear darker than they

55:48

actually are in photographs of things in space

55:51

due to exposure. Like any camera was exposed

55:53

to see the clouds of the earth, which

55:55

is quite reflective. And so this thing appeared

55:58

darker than it actually was. rational

56:00

explanation. He saved me a lot of time. Still

56:02

makes for a fun read to read about Black

56:04

Knight. And now I'll know what that is. So

56:06

thank you Star Party. Mark was

56:09

then waxing poetic about the James Webb

56:11

telescope and all the cool things that's

56:13

revealing to us. And this was interesting.

56:15

He was kind of talking about his

56:17

role as someone trained in astronomy. He

56:19

said an astronomer can tell you sort

56:21

of what's out there, what we're looking

56:23

at, and basic info about how

56:26

it works. Okay. An astrophysicist can get

56:28

into far more detail about how it

56:30

works. Okay, fair. And then

56:32

a cosmologist will tell you why all

56:34

of it's here and why you're here. What

56:36

the system is. Okay. Yeah, felt like a

56:39

good distinction. Yeah. Another woman had a

56:41

great question. Can we ever get like a

56:43

time lapse of a galaxy

56:45

spinning? And he said,

56:47

well, I mean you'd have to go

56:50

past many generations in human lifespans to

56:52

put that all together. I was thinking,

56:54

yeah, if you start to get the

56:56

motion measured, even at a small increment,

56:58

you can then extrapolate forward and do

57:01

the animation. Okay. But he then made

57:03

a point about how Chinese astronomers spotted

57:05

a supernova in 1054 AD

57:08

and that we can now see where it's

57:10

at currently and we can sort of extrapolate

57:12

backwards. Like, okay, this is when it exploded.

57:14

Here's how far it's expanded since then. Wow.

57:16

It's crazy. Anybody can do that. Science is

57:18

so cool. But

57:20

with that, things were starting to kind of

57:23

wrap up. I think we were well before

57:25

our 11 o'clock. We didn't go quite

57:27

that late. Yeah, I think there

57:29

was another question. Oh, a guy. Okay.

57:31

There was a guy who talked. He

57:33

mentioned that he had an iPhone that

57:35

had an attachment for it that allowed

57:37

him to do night vision. Okay. That

57:40

he had got this cool formation of

57:42

four stars that were traveling together in

57:44

a shield formation and then

57:46

they split off from each other and

57:48

then heard that and said, okay, I

57:50

would suspect birds that they'll fly information

57:53

but then sometimes they'll make independent decisions

57:55

and move off. Also sometimes you might

57:57

see something that feels like a blinking

57:59

motion and it could just be wings flapping.

58:01

They can capture more light than less. More

58:04

or less. More or less.

58:06

I took a good bird picture yesterday.

58:08

Yeah? Yeah. If you like bird

58:10

pics. I do. Look at this.

58:12

My buddy Leonard Trammell takes some amazing

58:14

bird photos. Oh, this is good. Thank

58:16

you. Yeah. Oh, this is nice.

58:18

Yeah, that hummingbird. It's a hummingbird mid flap. I

58:21

just looked over and she was right there by

58:23

my face and I had my phone up to

58:25

my pants. Yeah. So I

58:27

was like, I'm just going to try to

58:29

get it. It's in savior pose with its

58:31

wings just straight out. Cool, right? Yeah. Nicely

58:34

done. Here's the other. Not

58:36

as cool, but pretty cool. No, that's beautiful. What a

58:38

marvel. Just that we

58:41

can capture moments like that. Right? I'd

58:43

take 25 snaps, but you get it.

58:45

Yeah. But then you get to

58:48

pick the ones and yeah, it's not like back

58:50

in the day where you had to click, advance,

58:52

click, advance, and then pay a lot of money

58:54

to develop all those to your miserly about every

58:56

single photo. Amazing. But credit to the

58:58

photographer as well. That's great. Thank you.

59:00

And this was interesting. Another guy got

59:02

up. Okay. So there were

59:04

guys talking, but he was talking about being

59:07

at Joshua Tree a few years back at the

59:09

same conference. So maybe the same year we were

59:11

there, maybe a different one. He

59:14

had, he had kind of a complex description of the

59:16

movement of something that he saw.

59:18

There were multiple points and

59:21

they were like elevating, but then they were moving

59:23

straight and it was changing up quite a bit.

59:26

However he described it. And he said, sounds like it could

59:28

be bats. I'm not saying it has to be bats, but

59:31

that feels like a potential explanation. And then

59:33

Mark kind of jumped in and said, Oh,

59:35

and if you shine the laser at a

59:37

bat, it will sort of sense that and

59:39

probably irritate it and it'll fly in a

59:41

different direction. Sure. And

59:43

that's been misinterpreted as a UFO sighting.

59:46

Don't shine your light to the bats people. Yeah.

59:49

That's a felony. That should be a felony.

59:51

Federally restricted activity. Yeah, battery. Be careful with

59:54

those laser pointers is the moral of

59:56

this story. And Ross, did you hear my, the

59:59

battery. Oh, very good.

1:00:01

There we go. Quality, quality. So

1:00:04

that was it. We kind of petered out and all went

1:00:07

off in our various ways unless we were sticking around to

1:00:09

buy binoculars. I was not though. A pair

1:00:11

of night vision binoculars would be nice enough. I wanna

1:00:13

kick them out of bed. But

1:00:15

I went away from that going, wow.

1:00:17

I mean, on one hand, we go

1:00:19

to these things because we wanna hear

1:00:22

some kind of extraordinary thoughts about the

1:00:24

world, but I felt it was refreshing

1:00:26

to see. Contact in the Desert, I

1:00:28

think, does a pretty good job of

1:00:30

having some rational voices, some science-based voices

1:00:32

in the mix. Yeah, it seems like they'll

1:00:35

let anybody, anybody who wants to come and pay

1:00:37

their way in, they'll let you do it, it

1:00:39

seems. So we were

1:00:41

prepping to do this podcast and

1:00:43

I thought, well, let's watch their

1:00:45

TV collaborations. Let's see how they

1:00:48

did on UFO Witness

1:00:50

season two, episode two. Yeah,

1:00:52

so I was looking around for them too.

1:00:54

Yeah. Well, I was looking around for Ben. Okay,

1:00:57

Ben Hanson. I was more curious about him.

1:00:59

And the first thing I found was

1:01:01

a video of him at the Travis

1:01:03

Walton abduction site. And it seems like

1:01:06

he was making fun of it. And

1:01:08

also he has an English accent, but

1:01:10

he's American. It was very weird. Yeah,

1:01:12

he was doing this kind of, here

1:01:15

ye I proclaim to any spirits.

1:01:17

Yeah, goofy English accent. Come back

1:01:19

to visit us now. We are

1:01:21

here and you were previously the

1:01:24

evening of November, 1975 or whatever.

1:01:28

When Americans want to be fancy,

1:01:31

we have nothing to do except become British.

1:01:33

That's like the

1:01:35

first thing people turn to. Sure.

1:01:39

Anyway, yeah, I don't know what the hell

1:01:41

was going on in that video. From that

1:01:43

clip, I have no idea what the intended

1:01:45

tone was or the audience or

1:01:48

why, but yeah, it was clearly tongue

1:01:50

in cheek. Yeah. And then

1:01:52

I found that interview that I told

1:01:54

you about where he described what sounds

1:01:56

like a point, but he sure

1:01:58

has a good. presents on camera,

1:02:01

you know, he can, he can hold

1:02:03

that moment well. Yeah. And it's interesting,

1:02:05

like, uh, on IMDB, he has some credits

1:02:07

as being like a camera guy. I'm guessing

1:02:10

he was maybe like, I could be totally wrong about

1:02:12

this, but I just sort of have this mental image

1:02:14

of him having been on the crew

1:02:16

for some of these shows. And then maybe

1:02:18

people recognizing him and saying, Hey, you're a

1:02:20

good looking guy. You know about Ben Hanson,

1:02:23

Ben Hanson, but he had been an FBI

1:02:25

agent supposedly. Yeah. Well, I mean, for

1:02:27

whatever reason, he has credit to working as

1:02:29

sort of like a camera operator or lighter

1:02:31

or something like that on TV. Yeah. That

1:02:33

seems suspicious. I feel like we could learn

1:02:35

more about his career path. Yeah. Fair. But

1:02:37

I'm guessing at some point they're like, well,

1:02:39

you seem really invested in these things. You

1:02:41

want to be in front of the camera.

1:02:43

You used to be an FBI agent. Yeah.

1:02:47

Uh, you willing to commit yourself to this

1:02:49

alien stuff now? Yeah. Yeah. Which really does

1:02:51

seem to be his beat. Uh, yeah. On

1:02:53

one of the shows they introduced him as

1:02:55

like an expert in alien visitation and

1:02:58

the paranormal. Okay. So that that's quite

1:03:00

a shift from whatever he was doing

1:03:02

before with, uh, you know, child abuse

1:03:04

investigations in the FBI. Which I tried

1:03:07

to look up. I looked up his name and some

1:03:09

keywords for, you know, the area

1:03:11

of research, child abuse. And

1:03:14

the only thing I came up with was

1:03:16

a different person by that name, spelled slightly

1:03:19

differently. He was on a sex offender registry

1:03:21

in a particular state. And for a second,

1:03:23

I was like, Oh my God, Oh no.

1:03:25

But it turns out that was Hanson O

1:03:27

N. Okay. Um, but I couldn't find anything

1:03:29

about this guy's, you know, advocacy or

1:03:32

whatever in that area. Ben Hanson is a

1:03:34

name that I can only remember for this

1:03:36

episode by repetition. It's what it's just such

1:03:38

a kind of generic sounding name to me

1:03:41

that it just sort of flips right out

1:03:43

of my head. But anyway, so I looked

1:03:45

up first the episode of UFO witness season

1:03:47

two, episode two in IMDB. I saw that

1:03:50

was the one where Mark D Antonio had

1:03:52

been a guest star

1:03:55

or, you know, he'd been brought on to comment on

1:03:57

one of these cases. And the

1:03:59

name of this. episode from 2022 was called Orbs and Insectoids.

1:04:05

Oh, okay. Sounds like something Linda would

1:04:07

like, Linda Moltenau. Uncovering

1:04:10

UFO sightings and alien encounters

1:04:12

in New England, Ben and

1:04:14

Melissa investigate a sadistic insect-like

1:04:17

species that poses a threat

1:04:19

to humanity. And then

1:04:21

written by travelchannel.com. So I guess that's where

1:04:23

it originally came from. Oh,

1:04:26

that's what I was wondering. Okay, so

1:04:28

is he a travel channel? Apparently, at

1:04:30

least this show was on TravelChannel. And

1:04:32

I was able to find both of

1:04:34

these things I'll talk about I found

1:04:36

on Max, formerly HBO Max. Wait,

1:04:38

this was a UFO show on TravelChannel

1:04:40

in 2020? I

1:04:43

wonder if this is the show that they offered me. Oh,

1:04:45

yeah, you were invited to host a show. I was invited

1:04:48

to host a UFO TravelChannel show right

1:04:50

around Ben. And I- If it is,

1:04:52

you were right to refuse. It's a horrible show. I'm

1:04:55

just gonna say flat out. Yeah, they

1:04:57

wanted like a believer and like, this is

1:04:59

their word, a skeptic. And then they called

1:05:01

me in and I like tried to hang

1:05:03

and then they offered it to me. And

1:05:05

I said to my agent, like,

1:05:07

I guess, and then she said,

1:05:09

she was like, you should sound

1:05:12

happier when we get you to be deal. You don't

1:05:14

want to do this. And I was like, no, I

1:05:16

don't want to do it. Oh, so maybe

1:05:18

this guy did it. If so, this is

1:05:20

a lot of nonsense. If

1:05:23

there was a skeptic on the show, I didn't see him. Ben

1:05:28

and Melissa have uncovered alarming reports

1:05:30

of orb shaped UFOs descending upon

1:05:32

New England. Now new testimonies reveal

1:05:35

disturbingly close encounters with a sadistic

1:05:37

species of insect like aliens that

1:05:39

has humanity in its cross hairs.

1:05:41

What is happening in America's Northeast

1:05:44

Corridor? And so as they were

1:05:46

doing like the intro to this episode, they were alluding

1:05:48

to the previous episode in which they talked

1:05:50

about blue-skinned aliens. I was like, oh,

1:05:53

no, are these Whitley's blue-skinned

1:05:55

aliens? Or are these Corey

1:05:57

Goodes blue-skinned avians? Who knows?

1:06:00

Smurfs. You'd have to pay me to

1:06:02

watch that first episode. But they had

1:06:04

like three main stories and they were

1:06:06

all kind of like around Massachusetts, Pennsylvania,

1:06:08

Connecticut, I think where the three states

1:06:10

represented. And as they would

1:06:12

introduce the person who was going to

1:06:14

tell their story about this either orb

1:06:16

or insectoid that they saw, they would

1:06:18

have this threat level and it went

1:06:20

from green to red. And when they,

1:06:23

when they introduced Thomas Reed in his

1:06:25

story, threat level was all the way

1:06:27

up. Oh man. I paused it so

1:06:29

I could take a photo and send it to you.

1:06:31

And I went on this whole dialogue to my wife,

1:06:33

Kara, look at the threat

1:06:35

level on this orbs and insectoids. It's all the

1:06:37

way to the top. You might've thought a guy

1:06:40

with a chainsaw coming at you in a stated

1:06:42

intent of cutting you in half was a high

1:06:44

threat level. This is

1:06:46

a man looking to the left. Look at

1:06:48

this Kara. There's a threat level over here and

1:06:50

then it goes all the way up to here

1:06:53

and this is all the way up to here.

1:06:55

It's red. And she's like, what is

1:06:57

wrong with you? Who

1:06:59

is Thomas Reed? Oh, he was just

1:07:01

the guy who was about to tell the story about a

1:07:04

sighting in 1969 when he was

1:07:07

in the car with his mom and

1:07:09

his grandma and they stopped because they

1:07:11

saw this light coming towards the car.

1:07:13

And then later on they found they

1:07:15

were missing time. The

1:07:18

threat level could not have been that high. There's

1:07:20

so many things more threatening than what happened. And

1:07:22

he had all these specific memories. Never once did

1:07:24

they ask him how he got the memories. Anyways,

1:07:26

this Melissa that they keep mentioning, this is Melissa

1:07:28

Tittle. Oh, titillating. T-I-T-T-L.

1:07:32

Like Ben is a handsome man.

1:07:34

She's a very pretty woman and

1:07:36

they just go around and they...

1:07:38

T-I-T-T-L? Yep. Got

1:07:40

a recover from that. This needs another vowel

1:07:42

somewhere at the end there. Yeah,

1:07:44

yeah. You can't do that. Yeah, there's got to

1:07:47

be an interesting history to that name. I got

1:07:49

to think about that for five minutes. But the

1:07:51

whole format of the story was them going to

1:07:53

one person after the next, having them tell

1:07:56

their story and it's just like maxed out

1:07:58

with all of the scary... noises and

1:08:00

the jump cuts It's

1:08:02

over dramatized then they sit around and they

1:08:04

talk about it like oh you think that

1:08:07

could be and then they wildly Speculate and

1:08:09

they never even offer a conclusion They don't

1:08:11

go back to the person and tell them

1:08:13

what it was they came up with They

1:08:16

don't solve it at all. They just let it all

1:08:18

just hang out there in the air So

1:08:22

I'm mostly watching for It's

1:08:26

embarrassing Then you

1:08:28

should be in space like having to be

1:08:30

the only person there to be like Oh

1:08:33

everybody and then everything useful you'd say

1:08:35

might get cut out. Yes, exactly It's

1:08:39

a producer's medium, you know, and they they get

1:08:41

what they want on camera I was just so

1:08:43

irresponsible And so I was watching

1:08:45

for Mark DeAntonio and he just came on as

1:08:47

a brief Consultant in this one and

1:08:49

even started with now I'm a man of science

1:08:52

and I don't want to jump to conclusions But

1:08:55

then he states a little later. This has

1:08:57

been happening in this area for thousands of

1:08:59

years. All right, man of science Not

1:09:02

too impressive, but he wasn't in that

1:09:04

one much. So I'm far more interested

1:09:07

in alien invasion Hudson Valley, okay,

1:09:09

so this was like more of a documentary.

1:09:11

It was like an hour and 20 minutes

1:09:13

long That's in New York

1:09:15

Hudson Valley. Yes Okay And I guess it's part of

1:09:17

a series because if you search for alien invasion There's

1:09:20

a bunch of them and I guess this was just

1:09:22

the one focused on Hudson Valley But

1:09:24

yeah, apparently in this one part

1:09:26

of New York There's been over 3,000

1:09:28

sightings for over a century and people

1:09:31

have been stalked by aliens

1:09:33

just using all this

1:09:36

inflated language dramatic

1:09:38

music and pom-pom-pom Dramatic

1:09:41

guy describing this kind of thing Jimmy

1:09:43

Church must want to be the voice

1:09:45

of one of those places Yeah

1:09:48

channel sci-fi Travel

1:09:51

channel, I mean it's a thing. Yeah, it's like

1:09:53

it's the trailer guy. Mm-hmm one man.

1:09:55

Yeah in an outpost in space I'm

1:09:58

available if anybody needs recording for

1:10:01

your dramatic readings. Or to

1:10:03

go to Camp Omni. campomny.org.

1:10:05

Also, sign up. Also

1:10:07

available for that. Still time. Do it.

1:10:09

Why wouldn't you? So they visit this

1:10:11

little town called Pine Bush, which has

1:10:13

more sightings than residents, they say. Okay,

1:10:16

well that just means the residents

1:10:18

are making multiple sightings, right?

1:10:21

Correct. Meaning the average sighting is at

1:10:24

least, you know, 1.1 per person. Okay.

1:10:26

Sounds popular there. Yes. One by one,

1:10:28

they find people who

1:10:32

are willing to tell these stories and

1:10:35

they just become increasingly

1:10:37

desperate. One woman is like

1:10:39

really hesitant, like, I don't know if I really

1:10:41

want to go there. And then the pretty lady

1:10:44

keeps convincing her, I don't know, maybe it'll help

1:10:46

you. You sure you don't want to share this

1:10:48

with us? Okay, there were

1:10:50

seven grays and they were in my room.

1:10:52

Yeah, that kind of thing. And there's so

1:10:55

much wrong with this thing. This

1:10:57

is a ridiculous documentary. But Mark

1:11:00

DeAntonio played a more crucial role in

1:11:02

this one. He was along with them

1:11:05

for the journey. Once he joined investigators,

1:11:07

Ben Hanson and Melissa Tittle, he kept

1:11:09

showing up and in almost every shot

1:11:11

where he'd appear, he would say something

1:11:13

to the effect of, now, and as

1:11:16

a scientist, I am far more circumspect

1:11:18

about it. But then they get to

1:11:20

this woman's basement and they're

1:11:22

talking about, like, how she's lived

1:11:25

there her whole life and her

1:11:27

grandma saw creatures here. And

1:11:29

they go downstairs and one woman, I

1:11:31

assume in the family, I'm not sure who

1:11:33

this woman is, but she starts saying, I'm

1:11:35

getting really uncomfortable standing in this spot. And

1:11:38

it feels like a ghost hunting show where,

1:11:40

you know, we haven't gotten any interesting footage.

1:11:42

So someone say something tapped to you or

1:11:44

something. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I feel like like

1:11:46

a finger just touched me on the back.

1:11:49

Well, that's meaningful on its own. So I'm

1:11:51

not going to stand here anymore. And then

1:11:53

Mark, my great skeptical move

1:11:55

on evaluator guy I fully

1:11:57

recommend for star talk. He's

1:12:01

searching. I'm

1:12:05

actually being really affected

1:12:08

right now by something. You are?

1:12:10

Yeah. Tingling

1:12:12

everywhere and I don't know what's coming from.

1:12:15

Now a third person has had a physical

1:12:17

experience in the house. Where? My

1:12:20

arms and my legs. My

1:12:24

head's tingling, you know, and it's like something's

1:12:27

riding up the floor into my body. Mark

1:12:30

feels ill. I'm concerned that he might collapse at

1:12:32

any moment. You feel numb? You okay? Yeah,

1:12:35

it's a tingling. You want to sit down? No, I

1:12:37

don't want to. It

1:12:39

started right in the balls of my feet and it

1:12:41

started riding up my leg. It

1:12:44

was not a temperature thing. It

1:12:46

was a neurological tingling. It

1:12:50

was terrifying. Is it gone now? Now

1:12:54

you know how we feel. Is

1:13:01

the activity in the house happening because this is

1:13:03

a portal? Or is the

1:13:05

family actually tracking this

1:13:08

situation? We seem to have

1:13:10

more questions than answers at this point. I'm a science

1:13:12

guy. This stuff doesn't happen to me. I'm

1:13:15

genuinely perplexed, you know. I

1:13:17

didn't know why my feet were tingling.

1:13:19

I didn't know why it felt like something was

1:13:21

choking me. But I

1:13:24

didn't make that up. You know, that was

1:13:26

happening. It's almost like layers. So

1:13:29

you maybe have these terrestrial layers

1:13:31

where we are dealing with paranormal

1:13:33

and spirits, but then you

1:13:36

have this other thing. I honestly think

1:13:38

that some of the things they're experiencing

1:13:40

could actually be the result of a

1:13:42

potential advanced technology using a potential portal.

1:13:44

I think that's possible here. It

1:13:47

could be a portal. A

1:13:49

portal? What? A

1:13:51

responsible scientist who takes a time lapse

1:13:54

photo so he can explain to people

1:13:56

the autokinetic effect and that they shouldn't

1:13:58

jump to the ground. conclusions when they

1:14:00

see things in the sky, he's all of a

1:14:03

sudden offering a portal. I wonder

1:14:05

if he feels guilty. You

1:14:07

know, he's taking money for this, but then when

1:14:10

he like is standing in front of the actual

1:14:12

believers, maybe he feels like, oh, this is when

1:14:14

I should really inoculate them. These

1:14:16

are two different people. And I feel like, yeah, it

1:14:18

has to be this effect where you put a camera

1:14:20

on someone and say, here's what

1:14:22

we need that they just deliver. You're like,

1:14:24

okay, well, all right, I want to help

1:14:27

you, producer. This is what you want to

1:14:29

hear. I'm feeling this thing coming from

1:14:31

the balls of my feet. I

1:14:33

was totally know it reminds me

1:14:36

of working on The Bachelor. Really?

1:14:38

Yeah. Wait, you worked on The Bachelor?

1:14:40

Yeah, I worked in post on The Bachelor. I guess it

1:14:42

would be before we met. Okay.

1:14:44

Yeah. It was just one season,

1:14:47

Jake's season. And yeah, anyway, but

1:14:49

yeah, I learned how manipulative the

1:14:52

producers can get. Yeah. And it's really manipulative

1:14:54

for all that. I love the topics of

1:14:57

our show. You know, my interest in aliens

1:14:59

and ghosts and all of that. I

1:15:01

really don't like produce TV on these

1:15:04

topics. So I don't

1:15:06

watch the ghost hunter shows. I

1:15:08

don't watch the alien shows. I

1:15:10

really have to be looking up

1:15:12

something for this podcast because it's

1:15:14

so many layers of phony that

1:15:16

I feel like I'm just getting

1:15:18

nothing from it. No useful information.

1:15:20

And always just so much editing, like so

1:15:22

many different source materials and things flashing in

1:15:24

front of the screen with no particular headline

1:15:27

and who's that from it? Oh, now I

1:15:29

have to pause and look that up. And

1:15:31

now you just mentioned a scientific phrase I've

1:15:33

heard, but not that way. Okay. Now to

1:15:36

look that up. You showed us five

1:15:38

seconds of the woman's footage from her

1:15:40

phone, but now we've shot to the

1:15:42

recreation. And yeah, the whole time you're

1:15:44

just kind of looking at the film

1:15:46

craft that they're using to pull one

1:15:48

over on people. Yeah. And then for

1:15:50

me and you, yeah, it's tough. It's like

1:15:53

fact check solar flare. Yeah.

1:15:56

Yeah. And become the Northern light. Right.

1:15:58

And it's such a. defabulated

1:16:00

thing that like at least with a more earnest

1:16:02

documentary. I feel like there are things I can

1:16:05

latch on to. Yeah. Like you said, oh, there's

1:16:07

that screenshot I can go look that thing up.

1:16:10

But this this is just all artifice and

1:16:13

they would just throw out apropos

1:16:15

of nothing these theories like let's

1:16:17

consider portals or they would bring

1:16:19

in like this little beeping device

1:16:21

called the REM pod. And

1:16:24

I hadn't heard of this before but it

1:16:26

was this tall hockey puck type thing that

1:16:28

they would lay out around them and it

1:16:30

would just occasionally blink and light

1:16:32

up and I found Kenny Biddle

1:16:34

had written an article about it.

1:16:37

And apparently it's built on a

1:16:39

junior theremin circuit and Oh,

1:16:41

the instrument. Yeah, and right and

1:16:44

they just found something that would

1:16:46

essentially be reactive to random objects.

1:16:48

Ah, this is like the things that listen to plants. Okay.

1:16:51

And its only purpose is for ghost investigation.

1:16:53

It was built as a little a little

1:16:55

hobby device. Okay, okay. And he took it

1:16:57

apart and he could see like the the

1:16:59

little tubes that came out of it and

1:17:02

would light up. They were actual glue sticks.

1:17:04

Oh, wow. With LEDs at the bottom

1:17:07

of them. Wow. Yeah, this thing was

1:17:09

purely just made as something that would

1:17:11

randomly occasionally light up and on every

1:17:13

level this documentary quote unquote was so

1:17:15

irresponsible. And they would throw out a

1:17:17

theory and you'd be like, where did

1:17:20

that come from? You just introduced this idea

1:17:22

at one point like they get it

1:17:24

in their minds that like they talked to this guy

1:17:26

on the phone and he's saying these spheres that you're

1:17:28

seeing these are for genetics purposes.

1:17:30

The only thing interesting on the

1:17:33

earth to the aliens is our

1:17:35

genetics. And so they leap

1:17:37

from that to I bet

1:17:40

all of these alien contactees, the

1:17:42

people who have had these sightings.

1:17:44

What if they have the RH

1:17:46

negative factor because that's rare. Only

1:17:48

7% of the population has them.

1:17:51

Let's draw their blood and you're squinting and

1:17:53

looking to the side because you don't see

1:17:55

the connection. Yeah, because there is none. Yeah,

1:17:58

I mean, it would be interesting if they. I found

1:18:00

that. Uh-huh. And so

1:18:02

I'm watching this. They draw blood from these people

1:18:04

and then they talk about all these other things.

1:18:07

They visit more people. They jump to other

1:18:09

wild theories and we're getting toward the end. I'm

1:18:11

texting you. I'm like, they never brought up the

1:18:13

test results. What the hell is going on? Yeah.

1:18:16

With like one minute left in the documentary. And

1:18:18

then they just bring up a little card that

1:18:20

says to protect people's health information. We're not going

1:18:23

to show you the individual results, but instead of

1:18:25

the 7% of the general population,

1:18:27

50% of the

1:18:29

people we measured were RH negative. Interesting.

1:18:32

Interesting. How many people were we looking

1:18:34

at? What's the sample size here? It looked like a group of

1:18:37

six people. Okay. Um,

1:18:41

I mean it's interesting because I am thinking,

1:18:43

uh, I wonder

1:18:46

if there's any chance that the RH

1:18:48

negative is associated with any cognitive

1:18:51

abnormalities. Interesting. Interesting. But that's

1:18:53

the only connection I would

1:18:55

draw. It was a self-selected

1:18:58

group. Yeah. Yeah. The

1:19:00

general population. Oh, this was another hilarious moment.

1:19:03

So this one guy who was telling his

1:19:05

story mentioned this humming tone that he heard

1:19:07

when he was downstairs or visited and they

1:19:09

said, okay. And Ben had this iPad app

1:19:11

and he said, would you say that the

1:19:14

tone you heard was higher or lower than

1:19:16

this tone that he played on his iPad

1:19:18

app? And the guy said lower than

1:19:20

that. So he hits a little slider. How about

1:19:22

this? Oh, even a little lower. Okay.

1:19:25

Yeah. I like that. But

1:19:27

it also had like a bit of texture to it. Okay. Let's

1:19:30

add a little bit. How about that? Yeah. That's

1:19:32

kind of what it sounded like. Now they

1:19:35

feel that they have decoded the tone

1:19:37

of the UFOs and that they can

1:19:39

broadcast this sound and bring aliens to

1:19:41

visit. So they go. Yeah.

1:19:43

Just based on the recollection of this guy

1:19:46

and this app, they generate a tone. They

1:19:48

go outdoors and they play it in the

1:19:50

woods and they film around them and they

1:19:52

see two little arcing lights over towards the

1:19:55

trees across the field. And they're like, we

1:19:57

summon the aliens to us. get

1:20:00

list the whole thing is just sounds like we

1:20:02

had to make TV and Thursday was almost

1:20:04

over it's a hundred percent that it's just

1:20:07

completely contentless my lord for the most part

1:20:09

they don't go back to the people at

1:20:11

all but they did go back to the

1:20:13

woman who'd lived in the house for years

1:20:16

and told her that her home is an

1:20:18

alien highway my

1:20:21

god oh yeah if

1:20:23

you want if you want a good hate watch and

1:20:26

you've got a subscription to max look

1:20:28

for alien invasion Hudson Valley it's an

1:20:30

hour and 20 plus minutes of

1:20:32

head scratching I see there

1:20:35

is the token beautiful woman uh

1:20:37

following around the men uh what's

1:20:40

she doing is she also a paranormal

1:20:42

investigator oh yeah she's introduced as

1:20:44

I think they call them both investigators and

1:20:47

I thought you give out that term too

1:20:49

easily I can't remember what

1:20:52

her specialty was supposed to be oh and

1:20:55

she pronounced it as Whitley Stryber

1:20:57

when she was talking about his

1:20:59

case in oh my goodness it

1:21:01

was sad after having such high

1:21:03

esteem for these two guys after

1:21:05

watching the star talk and being

1:21:07

like all right some good reasonable

1:21:09

voices I still think they are

1:21:11

that in that particular topic with

1:21:13

that particular crowd but boy the things that people

1:21:15

will do if you put a camera in front

1:21:17

of them yes uh sorry going

1:21:19

back three minutes yes people

1:21:22

who were alien abductees and had

1:21:24

the rh negative blood yes

1:21:26

were they mostly men maybe

1:21:29

even okay what they didn't tell us

1:21:31

who was who why I'm looking

1:21:33

at the American psychiatric association 2002 in

1:21:36

the past decade several studies have implied

1:21:38

that various factors associated with fetal development

1:21:40

and birth may increase the child's risk

1:21:43

of eventually developing schizophrenia many of those

1:21:45

studies have implicated various events that have

1:21:47

an impact on the developing fetus either

1:21:49

directly or indirectly now a

1:21:51

new study again suggests that babies with

1:21:53

rh positive blood born some mothers who

1:21:55

have rh negative blood oh okay a

1:21:58

condition known as maternal fetal rh compatibility

1:22:00

are increased relative risk for developing

1:22:02

schizophrenia. Interesting. Okay. And some of

1:22:04

these people I think were related

1:22:07

to each other as well. Okay.

1:22:10

So maybe a factor, maybe not.

1:22:12

Looking at Melissa Tittle's IMDB, she

1:22:14

is known for Ancient Aliens, Ancient

1:22:17

Civilizations, and Code 12, also

1:22:20

UFO Witness. She was on

1:22:22

both of the shows that we talked about. Secrets

1:22:24

of Antarctica, executive producer

1:22:26

Awaken the Sixth Sense. On her

1:22:28

website, she's listed as producer, writer,

1:22:31

investigative journalist. All right. Great. For

1:22:33

more than a decade, Melissa has

1:22:35

been developing and producing motion pictures

1:22:37

and television. Her particular expertise is

1:22:40

to create narrative stories around nonfiction

1:22:42

subjects. Truth is stranger than fiction.

1:22:44

Melissa can be considered an investigative

1:22:46

journalist in ancient civilizations, sci-fi, and

1:22:49

the science fields, but she also

1:22:51

produces transformation content with some of

1:22:53

the biggest names in that space.

1:22:56

Can be considered as an interesting way to

1:22:58

describe stuff. Yeah, can be. But,

1:23:00

fair enough. Arguably, one might say.

1:23:02

Fair enough. Yeah, that was highly

1:23:04

irresponsible, and I was grumbling at

1:23:06

the TV a lot. Well,

1:23:08

good on you for checking another source from

1:23:11

them. Yeah. Yeah. But it sounds like the

1:23:13

more you pay them, the more nonsense you

1:23:15

can get out of them. Yeah. Well,

1:23:17

I think that plays a major role

1:23:19

in all of this. Yeah. The reason

1:23:21

we have a lot of the media

1:23:23

that we do is probably just, I

1:23:25

like work. Yeah. Like we were just

1:23:28

saying with John Hodgman the other day

1:23:30

talking about- Christopher Walken. Christopher Walken. Yeah,

1:23:32

why he agreed to play Whitley Streiber

1:23:34

in Communion. Oh, I

1:23:36

like work. I like to work. Yeah,

1:23:38

which, speaking of- Showing up on

1:23:40

our BOCO. Yes, showing up on our BondCon.

1:23:44

I don't like either of those. Bonus content. It'll

1:23:46

be on our bonus content feed soon,

1:23:49

as soon as I edit it. So

1:23:51

look forward to that. Members only though.

1:23:53

We mentioned our Communion Communion, Bond Bond

1:23:55

BondCon. We had Communion. We talked about

1:23:57

Communion in Communion with John Hodgman. We-

1:24:00

eight bonbons making bonus

1:24:02

content. Yeah, coming soon and we'll have video

1:24:04

as well. Yeah, it was fun. Fun stuff.

1:24:06

John's the best. You

1:24:08

know what? Hi, John, because you know what John once told

1:24:10

me whenever he turns on his

1:24:12

phone and pulls out the podcast app, it

1:24:14

just automatically plays on a Ross & Gary

1:24:16

and he can't fix it. Good podcast

1:24:19

app. That's right. Don't let John

1:24:21

listen to other things. That's

1:24:23

hilarious. Like, well, I guess I have to

1:24:26

listen to their show. Yeah,

1:24:28

I'm glad he likes it that much

1:24:30

that he hasn't figured out how to

1:24:32

fix it. Normally my first reaction would

1:24:34

be, oh, I should recommend a way

1:24:36

to fix that. Oh, sure. No, no,

1:24:38

we should make every pal do this.

1:24:42

Stupid Apple only play on a Ross & Gary.

1:24:45

Well, thank you for coming along on this journey of

1:24:47

discovery with me. Thank you for going. Thanks for looking

1:24:49

at all the stars that were in fact planes

1:24:52

and satellites. We saw nothing

1:24:54

out of the ordinary, but to their credit, neither

1:24:57

did they. Yeah. All right. Fair enough until

1:24:59

they got to TV. All right. Well, that's

1:25:01

it for our show. Our theme music

1:25:03

is by Brian Keith Dalton. Also, our

1:25:06

administrative managers, Ian Kramer, who's in town

1:25:08

today. I should, when I leave here,

1:25:10

I should ask if he's still around.

1:25:13

Oh, good. Yeah. Yes. I didn't even know he

1:25:15

was coming until the last minute. And you can

1:25:17

support the show, all of our investigations, including

1:25:19

a very expensive one that's been draining a

1:25:21

lot of money out of my pocket recently

1:25:24

at maximumfun.org join.

1:25:26

That's where you can support and

1:25:29

replenish our coffers. Yeah.

1:25:31

Ross is really taking a crack at

1:25:33

something. You can also support us by

1:25:35

telling a friend, messing with

1:25:37

someone's podcast app so that it can only play

1:25:39

our show and no other. What is sabotage

1:25:44

or just, you know, play an episode for them. Be like, Hey,

1:25:46

I think you'll like this. And then if they

1:25:48

don't chuck their phone in the sea. Also leave

1:25:50

us a positive review. That helps. Yeah. Okay.

1:25:52

That's a backup plan. And write your

1:25:54

Senator. Why not? Do you even know their

1:25:56

name? Think about it. And remember a personal.

1:26:00

Alien visitation story from Mark

1:26:02

DeAntonio. My science guy.

1:26:08

After meeting with the town council, Mark

1:26:10

is moved to share with the team

1:26:13

his own curious tale. I've

1:26:15

had experiences too that I've not shared.

1:26:18

I had a house in this area.

1:26:21

I was lying awake at 3, 14 in the morning

1:26:23

and I heard this. Just

1:26:27

like that. And I'm looking, what's that? I

1:26:29

got out of the bed and I went to look out the window and

1:26:32

look up and oh, right in my face I

1:26:34

got this bright white light. It

1:26:36

blinded me. I just froze there. That

1:26:39

next night, that's when the real

1:26:41

thing happened that was transformative.

1:26:44

I awoke again but I couldn't tell what

1:26:46

time it was. And

1:26:49

that's because I couldn't move. I

1:26:53

could only use my peripheral vision because I went to turn

1:26:55

my head. Couldn't move my head. I

1:26:57

see something cross in front of that light through the

1:26:59

window. It's not coming through to me. And

1:27:03

I saw something here, I call

1:27:06

it a being or some kind of entity,

1:27:08

whatever creature. And then the thing

1:27:10

does is it comes out and has this wand that was

1:27:12

glowing and it passes up on my nose like this. Bang!

1:27:16

It's mooring. And it can't breathe. I'm

1:27:19

on my belly. I push off the pillow

1:27:22

to see that I was literally drowning in

1:27:24

my blood. It was in the pillow

1:27:27

and I was in the blood. And I was

1:27:29

like, ahh! And it took

1:27:31

me two years to go to a doctor. He

1:27:34

looked up there and he said, you've got

1:27:36

something huge up there. He says, I've never

1:27:38

seen anything this large in human science before.

1:27:42

And this is on record. He

1:27:44

took it out. It was literally,

1:27:46

yeah, it was this big. It was the size of my

1:27:49

two thumbs and came out that little tiny hole. What? What

1:27:52

did it look like? It was a big

1:27:54

gigantic blob. He said, if this

1:27:56

is a nasal polyp, this is one of the

1:27:58

biggest nasal polyps I've ever seen. Hey,

1:28:12

Sydney, you're a physician and the co-host of

1:28:15

Sawbones, a marital care of misguided medicine, right?

1:28:17

That's true, Justin. Is it true that our medical history

1:28:20

podcast is just as good as a visit to your

1:28:22

primary care physician? No, Justin, that

1:28:24

is absolutely not true. However, our

1:28:26

podcast is funny and interesting and a

1:28:28

great way to learn about the medical

1:28:31

misdeeds of the past as well as

1:28:33

some current not so legit healthcare fads.

1:28:35

So you're saying that by listening to our podcast, people

1:28:38

will feel better? Sure. And isn't that

1:28:40

the same reason that you go to the doctor? Well,

1:28:42

you could say that. And our podcast is free? Yes,

1:28:45

it is free. You heard it here,

1:28:47

first of all, Sawbones, marital care of misguided medicine,

1:28:49

right here on Maximum Fun, just as good as

1:28:51

going to the doctor. No, no, no, still not

1:28:53

just as good as going to the doctor, but pretty

1:28:56

good. Maximum

1:28:59

Fun, a worker owned network

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