0:00

I'm always upgrading my car, not because

0:02

I need to, because I want to.

0:05

Today, it's custom rins for my ride.

0:07

Tomorrow, It might be a new driver's

0:09

side seat cushion. And eBay motors

0:12

dot com always has what I need. They've

0:14

got over a hundred and twenty two million

0:16

car parts all at the right price.

0:18

That's perfect for me because I'm a car

0:20

guy. Are you still in the garage?

0:23

It's two in the morning. Almost

0:25

done. Okay. I'm

0:27

a car fanatic. EBay

0:30

Motors. Let's ride.

0:33

Oh, hi there. Twenty twenty three, Alie, here

0:35

to say, that I was under the weather

0:37

this week and I felt like

0:39

hot soggy garbage. So we're

0:41

revisiting this really lovely and

0:44

curious, an artistic and naturalistic

0:46

episode because it's also January

0:49

and you need a calendar. And somebody

0:51

this guest now sells calendars of his

0:53

work, so that was big update. They're

0:55

Alie, really gorgeous. I have one. His

0:58

website is linked to the show notes, including

1:00

a link straight to his calendars, which

1:03

will sell out soon. So get

1:05

one before they're gone. They're really, really beautiful,

1:07

and his work is awesome and inspiring.

1:09

Okay. More with him now. Oh,

1:12

hey, it's that older guy at the beach

1:14

watching the sunset, who claps

1:16

when it's done. Alie Ward back

1:18

with a very, very giddy episode of Ologies.

1:21

Up top, I want to let you know this guest

1:23

has a website now. Pera herpetological

1:26

dot com. The link is in his show notes. So

1:28

if you wanna be looking at any of his photography

1:30

while we talk can go to that. Order

1:33

his Instagram, which is in the show notes. Also,

1:35

you can buy his prints on his website. Thank

1:37

you to Kyle sleeper of Now Labs for putting

1:39

that together. And the guest also

1:41

has a Patreon. It is linked in

1:43

the show notes. You can directly support

1:45

his work and see all kinds of

1:48

unreleased photos and behind the scenes.

1:50

So go to his website, follow him on Instagram

1:52

and support him at Patreon. Okay.

1:55

On with the intro. Thank you to everyone

1:57

who keeps Ologies up among the science

1:59

callouts in the podcast charts by

2:01

making sure you're subscribed and by rating

2:03

by, of course, reviewing the show. I read all

2:06

of the reviews. I pick a hot steamy

2:08

fresh one each week to read. And this one was from

2:10

plex 091 who says, all of these

2:12

makes me feel like I'm in the best discussion

2:14

on a rainy day with a sub.

2:17

High praise. I appreciate that. Alie, hello

2:19

to majestic worm and

2:21

why do I need an name who both drive

2:23

delivery trucks and are tuning in.

2:26

So let's keep these good vibes

2:28

rolling with Aperiology and

2:30

it just did not have a specific

2:33

I looked at every quarter of

2:35

the Internet for one, it didn't exist.

2:38

But this guest is someone you heard on the

2:40

Black AF and STEM episode we did last month,

2:42

and I love his work so much. I

2:44

just wanted to know more about his macro

2:46

photography process. He has so many

2:48

fans who are allergy listeners. So

2:51

I asked Patreon what allergy

2:53

this would even be. And Zoltan and Sarah

2:55

both suggested nature picture

2:57

technology, Rob Hover,

2:59

offered wealth life, portraitology, Emily's

3:02

dad, and Rachel DeGuffbo said,

3:05

closapologist, but

3:07

then, patron Ellen Silva suggested

3:09

a Aperiology from the Latin

3:11

aperio meaning to open

3:13

or reveal. And Ellen wrote of

3:15

this guest's work that these photos certainly

3:18

reveal a world of detail.

3:20

Also, bonus, I was like, yes, apparion

3:22

and aperture of the camera, also

3:25

opening different spaces both physically

3:28

and culturally for more people to be included.

3:30

So yes, Aperiology, it is.

3:32

Thank you, Ellen. A word was coined

3:34

just for this episode never before who have

3:36

we done that on Ologies. I'm usually

3:38

very strict that exists elsewhere,

3:40

but this one is just a very rare special

3:42

occasion and I'm thrilled that there is now

3:45

a So we're gonna be

3:47

chatting about the magnificent art

3:49

and science, which you can see on his website,

3:51

again, parahirpetological dot com,

3:53

LinkedIn the show notes, side note, a macro

3:55

photo, is technically one in which

3:57

the size of the subject on the film

3:59

or the image sensor is life size

4:02

or larger. So his artwork is

4:04

larger than Scientifically speaking.

4:07

His Instagram at Reels on Wheels is

4:09

just a gallery of pensive,

4:11

praying mattresses, and dead

4:13

on stairs from beetles, the

4:15

cutest spiders with the most

4:17

cartoony eyes and more. And

4:19

as a lifelong bug lover, I was

4:21

hooked on his work as soon as I saw

4:23

it, and he now has thirteen

4:25

thousand followers on Instagram. Most

4:27

of them just from the last few weeks, it's

4:29

climbing so fast, I wouldn't be surprised to see him

4:31

break like a hundred thousand in the next three months.

4:34

So follow him on there. And also

4:36

by chance, this episode coincides perfectly

4:38

with disability pride month

4:40

as we celebrate the July nineteen

4:42

ninety passing of the Americans with

4:44

Disabilities Act. So let's celebrate

4:46

that with a glass of iced tea and listen

4:48

to his process, his relationships

4:51

with animals, why we should appreciate

4:53

this slithery Alie, the buggy,

4:55

the leggy creatures, lenses,

4:57

cheap gear hacks, which spiders are

5:00

the cutest. His macro

5:02

photography mentors the best

5:04

place to photograph inverts and

5:06

more. Also, you may hear

5:08

some beautiful chirping in the background,

5:10

and you have to listen to the whole episode.

5:12

To find out what kind of bird it is. Just think of

5:14

it as a lovely hello from

5:16

nature. So get ready for your

5:18

eyes and ears and world

5:21

to open with the wisdom and

5:23

the creativity of wildlife photographer

5:25

and the world's first ever a

5:27

Aperiology J. D. Monroe

5:29

Online AKA, Joseph

5:32

Saunders. I'm

5:51

so excited to talk to you. I feel like

5:53

you're my Ansel Adams you're,

5:55

like, my English, like, my,

5:58

like, favorite photographer. So this

6:00

is kind of a big deal. I

6:02

need to I'm gonna have to play it much cooler

6:04

than this because I'm, like, seriously so so

6:06

sorry to talk to you. So how long

6:09

have you been doing

6:10

photography? Did you, like, the outdoors

6:12

in nature first, or did you like photography

6:15

first?

6:15

I have always been a

6:18

Herbert Hart. I

6:19

I grew up in San Antonio, Texas. Alie,

6:23

just a quick aside. I'm actually I was originally

6:25

born in California.

6:26

0II

6:27

don't know if you're from California, but I realized I

6:29

could scare out that way. You was born.

6:31

And Tinder Air Force Base in a appearfield.

6:34

No way. Yeah. I know exactly

6:36

where that is. How long were you out in California

6:38

before you moved to Texas? Not long enough

6:40

to have any awesome memories. I think I

6:42

moved from California when I was about three. So I

6:44

really don't remember any of it. My

6:46

my upbringing really resides mostly

6:48

in San Antonio and a little bit in Phoenix,

6:50

Arizona. But so back to San Antonio.

6:52

So in San Antonio, Chelsea,

6:55

one of the other members of Black Afton,

6:57

she studies on old. And that's that

7:00

was my spark animal? What was the green Alie?

7:02

Like, the green got me

7:05

completely obsessed with

7:07

reptiles and amphibians and all

7:09

that stuff. They're they're everywhere in San Antonio.

7:12

Reninals and Mediterranean geckos.

7:14

Like, I go back to my brothers who still lives there

7:16

and, like, I cannot wait to get

7:18

there because I start, like, searching around his house

7:20

looking for an old, so I can sew my niece as a

7:22

nephew. Of course, growing up in the

7:24

desert in Arizona and San Antonio,

7:27

that must have been

7:28

like, the best kind of animal to seeds

7:31

with birds. So, like, you you

7:33

know, the crazy thing is, and III

7:35

slap myself every time it comes to

7:37

mind. But I also have to remind myself

7:39

about the reasons to be grateful.

7:42

I was not really involved in her

7:44

pathology or a better culture in any kind of way when I

7:46

lived in Arizona. I went to high

7:48

school in Arizona. My mom got stationed at Luke

7:50

Airport space. I'm so grateful for it because

7:52

the friends that I had there, they

7:54

were the generation that

7:56

followed a lot of the conflict

7:59

between the war on drugs and

8:01

the history surrounding that in Oakland,

8:03

California. Oh. And a lot

8:05

of them left Oakland, like, seeking a

8:07

better life. Mhmm.

8:10

And they taught me so much

8:12

about Black Life that I had no idea

8:14

because, one, I was raised by white

8:16

parents. My my biological

8:18

mother is white. And

8:22

also in the military. So, I mean, we're, like,

8:24

completely, like, cut off from, like, the realities. We

8:26

think, you know, our entire bubble is

8:28

just air force. That was my coming to

8:30

reality moment was my

8:32

friendship with them and I'm so grateful to

8:34

them to this day because, you

8:36

know, that they they

8:39

opened me up to learn so much

8:41

more about

8:42

blackness, about the justice issues

8:44

that we are facing now,

8:46

and there's

8:46

no way that I could have been the person that I am now

8:48

without them. So Joseph moved to Phoenix

8:51

at teen. And it was there that this community,

8:53

many people who were driven out from Oakland

8:55

and the Bay Area, because of the racial

8:57

underpinnings of this, so called war on

8:59

drugs. And these people opened his

9:01

eyes to his own culture.

9:03

And he also recalled a close

9:05

friend who when there were just teens

9:07

was brutally assaulted by two police officers

9:09

after just walking into a convenience

9:11

store in a white neighborhood. And

9:13

Joseph says that that was a moment when

9:15

he really had to face the reality of

9:17

the disparities between how black people

9:20

and white people see the issue of

9:22

racism through their own

9:23

lenses. AND HIS WHITE FAMILY

9:26

DIDN'T ALWAYS UNDERSTAND, BUT

9:28

HE MADE FRIENDS WHO DID. YOU KNOW,

9:30

THE GREAT THING IS

9:32

WHILE THE MILITARY they're

9:34

growing up with, you know, military, Brad. It it

9:36

did grant me my best

9:39

friend, why a very

9:41

very firmly say as my brother

9:44

because we were in kindergarten together.

9:46

Yeah. And we've been together ever since he

9:49

was the other black person that I knew that

9:51

actually liked animals and the weird ones as

9:53

much as I did.

9:53

Mhmm. We

9:54

were in kindergarten together and we would have library

9:56

days. Where

9:56

we

9:56

would go from a classroom over the library, and he and

9:59

I would basically barter over which one of us

10:01

got to read the snake book, the spider

10:02

book, the shark book. And

10:04

it was, like, hey, you get this one this week and, you

10:06

know, you take this one this week

10:08

and then

10:08

get a switch. And we read the same ones

10:10

over and over again. Like, I can still picture,

10:12

like, some of the photos, like, one of

10:14

them I think the spider book had had a

10:16

a trap or spider on the cover of

10:18

it. I am so grateful for

10:20

that because them they're my family and

10:22

we go back San Antonio every every

10:24

year and spend a week together

10:26

with my three nieces and my nephew and,

10:28

you know, that's my family. That is my

10:30

very very black family. Mhmm.

10:33

And also, now I have black a up in STEM.

10:35

And that is, you know, I have my

10:37

family, and now I also have this

10:39

amazing black naturalist

10:41

community. Yeah. So as

10:44

much as my

10:47

relationship with my relatives on my

10:49

mom's

10:49

side, as hurtful as that really

10:51

truly was. I I have the

10:53

support.

10:54

Yeah. I have the foundation that I need to be able

10:56

to go

10:57

forth. And continue. So

10:58

you you started liking

11:00

animals maybe before

11:03

photography? Oh, yes. So

11:05

I I had to I

11:07

had I had to hop on my own Facebook page real

11:09

quick because I

11:11

didn't actually start taking

11:13

photos with any sort of seriousness

11:16

until twenty fourteen.

11:18

Really? Yep. Really, I wouldn't

11:20

I would have thought that it was a lot earlier because

11:23

you're really very good at it.

11:26

What what was it that that started you

11:28

start taking iPhone picks? Or did you

11:30

did you start by getting a camera

11:32

and just taking it

11:33

out, you know, whenever you go looking

11:36

for herbs?

11:36

So I I'm almost ashamed of this just

11:39

because of my

11:41

my circle of influence

11:42

now. What got me into this is that

11:45

I found out about people

11:47

who breed

11:49

various, like, high end morphs of

11:51

ball pythons. When I was

11:53

in

11:54

college. Mhmm. And I

11:55

that's what I do now. That's that's my

11:57

own business. I'm

11:59

regularly employed. I have my own employer, but my

12:01

own small businesses, I read both Pythons.

12:04

Oh my god. So

12:07

So what I what I found out

12:09

was I was like, okay. So how do I actually take

12:11

good photos of my animals to make sure that,

12:13

you know, I'm, you know, doing good advertising

12:15

and this kind of stuff? And someone's like, you know,

12:17

you need to get a decent camera. And then

12:19

somebody said one time that, you know, you need

12:21

to get a a decent macro lens

12:24

because baby snakes are small, you

12:26

know. You gotta make sure that, you know, you

12:28

get the right equipment. I was like, alright. Cool.

12:30

So I got

12:32

an old Canon T5i back

12:34

in twenty thirteen, I think. And I

12:36

think it sat on the shelf for a good long while

12:38

because I didn't know what to do with it. And

12:44

after someone mentioned the macro lens, I got that

12:46

Canon hundred millimeter. And

12:48

I went and I was running

12:50

around the park and playing with

12:51

it. And I realized that I could

12:53

fit a

12:54

cricket's head in the entire frame.

12:56

How many? Crickets. And

12:59

my mind just exploded, and I have just been

13:01

going completely nuts ever since. I was just

13:03

Alie,

13:03

This

13:04

is too much fun. Bugs are everywhere.

13:06

This is so it's it's not that it's

13:08

easy, but it's accessible. Like, you

13:10

don't have to hike miles to find some sort of a

13:12

rare species. It's what can you find in your own yard

13:14

and how can you present it in such a way to change

13:16

someone's mind and opinion about

13:18

something that most people

13:19

just, like, stomp on without, you know,

13:21

a second thought. Yeah.

13:22

I mean, that ties back into my

13:25

my earlier impression as

13:28

as our herbert is,

13:29

you know, a big part of it was

13:32

the recognition

13:34

that that this

13:36

being before, I guess, being

13:38

more becoming more confident in understanding of my

13:40

blackness. I

13:43

I've been disabled since birth. I have a Spina

13:45

Bipoda, so I've used a chair

13:47

Alie my

13:48

life. Mhmm. So I've always felt, you know, some

13:50

I've always felt empathy

13:52

and some connection when it came to reptiles where

13:54

a sense of not fitting in for sense of kind of

13:57

persecution not being enough.

14:00

So I really attached on to

14:02

reptiles kind of for that reason, like snakes

14:04

especially because I

14:07

would grow up as a kid and watching, like,

14:09

documentaries and, you know, the various facts. And

14:11

David Attenborough talking about reptiles

14:13

and this and that. And this is

14:16

a honed digit. And

14:20

very beautiful too. What always stood out to

14:22

me most was a few was a

14:24

few things. One, how tough scales

14:26

are. Mhmm. You know,

14:28

they basically are just

14:30

this form of armor that allows them

14:32

to be able to withstand bites

14:35

from their prey and or

14:37

other predators and, you know, so on

14:39

and so forth. It gives them this this layer

14:41

of protection Another thing

14:43

is being that, you know, they can go

14:45

weeks, maybe months without any

14:47

water. Months, you know, if they have an

14:49

adequate source of food and since they get

14:51

seventy percent of their water

14:53

from their food that they actually

14:55

Alie. Mhmm.

14:55

And they

14:56

survived it. You know, you can put them in, like

14:59

side winders in Arizona or horned wipers.

15:02

Stick

15:02

them out in the middle of the desert and they're quiet.

15:05

Pretty good. Pretty,

15:09

pretty, pretty,

15:12

pretty good. And I

15:15

looked upon them as an example

15:18

of as

15:20

an example of resiliency. You

15:22

know, an example of how to be tough of

15:24

how to survive, of how to

15:27

not only serve not

15:29

just survive, just based off of what

15:31

other people perceive as your limitations,

15:34

but also how to survive

15:36

when everybody else is against

15:37

you. If you're feeling overlooked or or

15:39

underestimated. Right. Yeah.

15:42

How beautiful is

15:42

that? The answer is very beautiful.

15:45

So,

15:45

you know, that connection for me

15:48

and rep houses out. I think that's why it's been the one thing that

15:50

I've always that that has just never

15:52

gone away. Like, you know, I used to love

15:54

sports. Oh, yeah. I still love sports,

15:56

but I mean, I haven't touched a basketball since

15:58

twenty twelve. Spend my time playing ball when I was

16:00

in my twenties, but

16:02

I I just keep coming back

16:05

to to reptiles. And now,

16:07

the same kind of relationship and perspective

16:09

still applies when it comes to inverter

16:11

bits because nobody gives a damn

16:13

them. Yeah. You know, they

16:14

get into the house and people. It's

16:16

some big thing for people to they think

16:19

that it's some great thing that they

16:21

don't kill insects that they would catch them and release

16:23

them. I was like, why? That should be the norm.

16:25

Yes. There's so few

16:27

that can Actually, you hurt you. There's

16:29

so many shower spiders that are just

16:31

they just

16:32

wanna hang out in the corner.

16:34

Right. Just let

16:34

them out. But the

16:37

way you do, the way that you photograph

16:40

these creatures, they're number

16:43

one, your field of of focus is

16:45

so shallow. That what is so

16:47

crisp, it draws you in.

16:49

It's just magnetic because what's

16:51

so crisp your eyes just Alie feasts

16:53

on and then The

16:55

backgrounds are so obscured. They're just

16:57

dreamy, and it's so easy to focus

16:59

on the subject because that really

17:01

super shallow depth of field.

17:03

And what is that like, what kind of

17:05

gear do you have to bring? Do you have

17:07

a tiny tiny little studio?

17:10

And it's like a seamless that you put

17:12

them on or Are they like,

17:14

how how are you doing how are you capturing

17:16

these

17:16

images? So, I mean, a lot of what I do

17:19

is is is actually in the Alie. You know,

17:21

sometimes if I something

17:23

that's around the house, I'll take it inside. So I catch

17:25

it. Wait till it settles down a little bit. It gets a little

17:27

bit desensitized to me and then I'll proceed

17:29

with photographing

17:29

it. Otherwise, it is it's in the field.

17:31

Has it taught you a lot about the

17:34

ecology because you tend to see the same

17:36

animals in certain

17:37

spots? Yes.

17:38

You know, and that that's it

17:40

it's funny that you mentioned that because,

17:43

hey, what with within

17:45

Blackface and STEM, Mhmm. I'm like

17:47

the undisciplined, like,

17:51

low credential variety out

17:53

of

17:53

all of them. They're all, like, working phd's

17:55

and this and that I'm like, I got a bachelor's

17:57

degree in sociology. At this

17:59

point, I was like, that doesn't mean you don't know your

18:01

shit and he was like, yeah. No. No. No. I know. I'm kidding.

18:03

But he was like, about it.

18:05

It's my hobby. And what I do, it does it

18:07

does teach me a lot about the ecology. Like,

18:09

I can name

18:12

Like about every species of jumping spider in the

18:14

state of Oklahoma. Definitely all

18:16

their herbs. I can identify all of

18:18

the frogs and toads in Oklahoma by

18:21

ear. And, you know, this is just things

18:23

that you pick up as a habit because you do this all

18:25

the time. If you don't learn

18:26

this, doing what you do is you're trying

18:29

not to. What kind

18:32

of apps or field guides do

18:34

you tend to rely on more? Well,

18:37

have a few field guides now. Most of them are

18:39

herbs. I have I

18:42

have a couple of bird guides now. I think

18:44

I have the Sibley Alie guide.

18:46

And I have a a, a

18:48

general insect guide as

18:49

well. But I honestly I use bug guide dot

18:51

net a lot. Okay. Cool. Yeah.

18:53

That

18:53

that's a really good source when you're actually looking

18:56

when you have photos and you're trying to identify,

18:58

you know, whatever the the inverter

19:01

you found is, like, the biomass and biodiversity of

19:03

arthropods is just so insane

19:05

that -- Mhmm. -- you you have to

19:07

be patient with resolve Yeah. You

19:09

can't expect, you know, this level

19:11

of expertise and this you are really

19:13

diving into a specific family

19:16

or a genius of of

19:18

a group of animals. Mhmm.

19:20

And you misidentify stuff

19:23

often. Yeah. And that's perfectly

19:25

fine because and and so

19:27

people will correct

19:28

you. And that's

19:30

that that is part of the culture is that

19:32

you accept correction. There's nobody that, you

19:34

know, gets really too upset about it and

19:36

it's just

19:37

Alie, no, it's that. It's like, oh, okay. Thanks. Joseph

19:39

has met a ton of naturalist

19:41

friends online, but he does most of his

19:43

shooting in Oklahoma City where he lives now.

19:45

He told me that while Oklahoma prides

19:48

itself on being the redist of

19:50

the red states. One great thing

19:53

about Oklahoma is that a lot of people don't

19:55

realize that it has per capita, the

19:57

most historical black towns than any

19:59

other state. And you may, of course, be

20:01

familiar with the history of Tulsa's

20:03

Greenwood District. Was also known as Black Wall

20:04

Street. And that was the site of the

20:07

Tulsa Race massacre of nineteen twenty

20:09

one. And he told

20:09

me that Oklahoma's diverse

20:12

population is partly the result of

20:14

the trail of tears that forced

20:16

indigenous people off their lands

20:18

and other traumatic relocation

20:20

practices from the Old South. But he went

20:22

to college there and says at the time he was eating

20:24

and sleeping and breathing basketball.

20:26

But in all that

20:27

time, maybe he only had three

20:30

black teammates I asked why he thinks that

20:32

was. And I mean, the black people are

20:34

severely underrepresented in which you last called. At least

20:36

they were at the time that I was in college has now been a

20:38

while. Anytime that you look at

20:40

something if there is a lack of

20:42

representation. It's pretty safe bet to

20:44

at

20:44

least start

20:45

to consider that there's some discrimination involved

20:47

Yeah. And it's a matter of kind of diving down into

20:50

root cause analysis. So,

20:52

like, with my case, like, with spina bifida,

20:55

I know black children are

20:57

much more be that have spina and this normally is a

20:59

result of the medical

21:01

neglect of black mothers. Spina

21:04

bifida is something that occurs due

21:06

to a deficiency in nucleic acid that

21:08

happens in neuro --

21:10

Mhmm. -- very avoidable, and

21:13

it's not avoided when mothers

21:15

expecting mothers aren't taken care

21:17

of, which is why that it happens more

21:19

often in black children because black women

21:21

don't have as good an act access

21:23

to adequate medical

21:24

care. Howard Bauchner: Right. Okay. Side

21:26

note, that is tragically a

21:29

gross understatement. The Centers for

21:31

Disease Control released a report in

21:33

September of twenty nineteen, and it opened with

21:35

this bold and very heartbreaking

21:37

statement. Quote, black, American

21:39

Indian, and Alaska native women are two

21:41

to three times more likely to

21:43

die from pregnancy related causes

21:45

than white women. And this disparity increases

21:48

with age. I'm sorry that their language is

21:50

not more inclusive of non binary and

21:52

trans men who can have babies, but

21:55

it continues most pregnancy related deaths are

21:57

preventable. Rational and ethnic disparities

21:59

in pregnancy related deaths have persisted

22:01

over

22:01

time. It says,

22:03

And also, I mean, when you go to

22:06

just the histories of redlining and

22:08

the revitalization of America, also

22:10

playing into medical care and

22:12

proper medical care also update these disabled children.

22:15

Mhmm. What then

22:18

become the opportunities in

22:20

the accessibility of these

22:22

children to find adaptive

22:24

sports

22:24

opportunities. Mhmm.

22:25

My mom was

22:26

in the military, so I mean, I I didn't have to deal with a lot

22:29

of those struggles. I mean, obviously, something happened

22:31

with the care that my mom received

22:33

even from

22:34

the military

22:35

standpoint as far as medical care is concerned,

22:38

but growing up ultimately middle class,

22:40

she was able to find

22:43

resources and outlets for me --

22:45

Mhmm. -- that centered

22:46

disability. Now

22:49

is the next

22:49

part where well, I mean, I had to learn to center blackness for

22:51

myself. It's not something that I could have ever learned

22:53

from her. So

22:54

now it's a matter of dealing with, you know, both

22:56

of those things because I am

22:59

black and I'm a paraplegic all

23:00

the

23:01

time. Mhmm.

23:02

I can't

23:03

be one or the other

23:04

before the

23:05

other. I I am both at all times.

23:07

What was it like for Joseph to get to know the

23:09

folks from Black AF and STEM who've been

23:12

personally making my time

23:14

lines one million percent better since they

23:16

launched Black Burger's week in late

23:17

May? How did you become introduced to them?

23:19

What was that like for you?

23:22

It is there's this

23:24

whole thing. I you know, I'm actually one of

23:26

the newer members of, like, in STEM. I

23:28

think I came in around February

23:30

-- Mhmm. -- and was Alex Trautman that

23:32

brought me

23:32

in. So he had

23:33

a he had a post on Facebook about not

23:35

looking like a scientist. Because he's

23:37

black. Mhmm. And he kinda, you

23:38

know, dove into, you know, this long

23:41

piece about, you know, I'm still a scientist,

23:42

you know, black this ain't got nothing to do

23:45

with it. I'm a black scientist. And

23:47

that went viral. I wasn't friends with him, but

23:49

I saw

23:49

that. And I was like, hey.

23:50

Hello. We should be friends. And

23:54

he hit me back. He was like, did you know about, you know, this group me? And I was

23:56

like, I had no idea --

23:57

Mhmm. -- what's going on? Yeah.

23:59

Yeah. And so he let me in and then I

24:02

realized, you know, there was familiar

24:04

faces in there like Carl Guiteen, the Crock

24:06

guy. Mhmm. I think I've been friends with

24:08

Carl, actually, longer than any of

24:10

them. And Corina Newsom and,

24:12

you know, other people that I was already familiar, like, you

24:14

know, I've just been hanging out in here and I'd die for

24:16

just now getting the invitation

24:18

What's going

24:20

on? That that must

24:23

have felt like walking

24:25

into the best party

24:26

ever. Yes. Absolutely.

24:31

And then, you know, and the

24:33

momentum has just obviously, Alie just

24:35

increased, like, exponentially since

24:37

that point that I came in. I mean,

24:39

initially, it was just this lightweight place

24:41

where we could just kind of

24:43

set down all of the armor that

24:45

we kind of carry with us into the field

24:47

in the other predominantly white

24:48

space. Alie, everybody here is black

24:50

and everybody here loves animals. Yeah.

24:53

This is great. This is this

24:55

is the place that I've been trying to get to all my

24:57

life. I

24:57

did an episode about code switching

25:00

with Dr. Nicole Holiday who's

25:02

a linguist. And

25:04

I imagine the

25:07

code switching dealing in the

25:10

scientific world must be exhausting. I

25:12

feel like already so many people

25:14

feel like in science, they can't bring their

25:16

true

25:16

selves, but it

25:19

must be such a

25:21

relief to fully be

25:23

in a group

25:25

of of people who have such similar

25:27

experiences and you can feel like you

25:29

can be

25:30

you know,

25:30

completely authentic with? Yes, Debbie.

25:33

I mean, code switching is a part of it. I think my

25:35

favorite thing about it that I've thought

25:37

about is is

25:39

honestly his hair. So, you know, there's very many

25:41

different types of hair, and so we have, you

25:43

know, various Zoom meetings. And we're having, like, Zoom

25:45

meetings just for, like, you know, the

25:48

social evenings. Yeah. For

25:50

black burgers

25:50

week, we would have, like, game nights.

25:52

Mhmm. And so,

25:55

like, when I I have really long hair, it's, like, down

25:57

to about the middle of my back. When I

25:59

go to work at my regular day

26:01

job, I almost always have my hair pulled back

26:04

in a

26:04

ponytail because I figured out very

26:07

quickly Alie I don't do that,

26:08

why people end up making really stupid comments and it's

26:11

just

26:11

like, you know what? I just have my hair down. Why

26:13

are you even talking to me for having my hair down?

26:16

Mhmm. That

26:16

doesn't happen in black spaces. Nobody cares

26:19

that your hair is down. Everybody

26:21

has some sort of type of hair that is

26:23

close to what yours is.

26:26

Sometimes it's messy. Sometimes you it's,

26:28

like, covered in a head wrap.

26:31

And in those group

26:31

chats, in those moments, in those Zoom meetings,

26:34

it is normal and there's

26:36

never a comment made.

26:38

Unless it's unless we get into a topic

26:40

about talking about hair care or hair care

26:42

in the field --

26:42

Mhmm. -- it's

26:45

You're just like

26:45

everybody else. Yeah. You don't

26:47

have to

26:47

worry

26:47

about ignorance. It's

26:50

a very freeing and

26:52

it makes it very comfortable. It

26:54

makes feel very

26:55

safe. That's one thing that really struck me

26:57

about the black half Alie streams

27:01

that was really beautiful

27:03

to see because so

27:05

often people who are black

27:07

and stem are

27:09

tokenized or

27:11

are on a panel where

27:13

it feels like they have to

27:16

represent everyone who's

27:18

ever been in science and black at the same time. That that

27:20

kind of weight is put on them and it was

27:22

really wonderful to watch the livestreams,

27:24

to see that kind

27:27

of burden be lifted

27:29

and to see people be just be

27:31

able to be completely themselves

27:34

and much more care free in

27:36

a space where they knew that they were

27:37

safe. It was really such a

27:40

joy to to be witness to, you

27:42

know. You know, and I mean, it's

27:44

a it's a great thing that you are even able to

27:46

acknowledge that because a lot of people don't even

27:48

realize how how guarded

27:50

and how unsafe we feel in those spaces because

27:52

we are so used to kind of putting on spaces

27:55

and put train ourselves in such a way that doesn't, you

27:57

know, upset the white gays and other

27:59

things. And and so to acknowledge,

28:01

to be able to see that, you know, when when we're just being

28:03

us and we're not just we're not we're not

28:05

trying to put on a face for anybody,

28:08

it's a whole

28:08

different thing. And I loved,

28:11

like, that your approach to science was so artistic.

28:14

And so, like, zeroed in

28:16

on on kind of

28:18

the beauty of things that have been

28:20

overlooked. And other

28:22

people might approach their science differently

28:24

in the Black AF and STEM

28:25

episode. Joseph submitted clip addressing

28:28

BBC and National Geographic

28:30

directly quote, I have yet

28:32

to meet more than maybe

28:34

two or three other people with

28:37

an injury like mine who are

28:39

also naturalists. This is

28:41

a really good opportunity for

28:43

BBC and Nigeria if you guys are

28:45

listening. You y'all don't have any representation

28:47

for disabled people amongst your photographers.

28:50

Direct to the point and admirable. I

28:52

was like, I like this guy. How

28:55

represented do you feel in wildlife

28:58

photography? Because I feel like most

29:00

working wildlife photographers are

29:03

ruddy white dudes in

29:05

car

29:05

hearts. Like, what do

29:08

you mean? Like, what is that field

29:10

like? And what should

29:11

it be? You know, it's

29:14

it's kinda that's multilayered.

29:16

So there there's on

29:19

one hand, you know, like, the the comment

29:21

that I made when I sent in my Alie, I mean, that

29:23

stands. There there really is no representation. I

29:25

don't think, honestly, in a

29:27

photography period, I can't think of anybody that

29:29

I know that has a physical

29:31

disability that is well known in photography. In

29:37

in wildlife

29:37

photography. I mean, it's even harder. And I mean, some

29:40

of that is

29:42

So there there's a rationale to some of it because

29:45

there are some places, some

29:48

locations that it is simply highly

29:49

unlikely, if not impossible, to get any

29:52

kind of a wheelchair to go. And

29:54

I accept

29:54

that. What I have

29:57

trouble accepting is that nobody is actually

29:59

willing to put forth any sort of

30:01

mental energy to create any sort of

30:03

solutions or diversity

30:05

around that. Alie, like,

30:07

just looking at what using

30:09

myself as an example, Obviously,

30:12

somebody with mobility limitations

30:15

can get pretty good at macro

30:17

photography because insects are not that hard to

30:19

come by. At

30:21

least for now, we can talk

30:23

about the declining rate of the

30:25

biomass of

30:25

arthropods, which

30:28

is terrifying. Okay, quick aside, I

30:30

don't want to alarm you. But I

30:32

looked into it and some scientists

30:34

are calling this the insect

30:37

apocalypse it's very bad. So

30:39

according to a recent story in Science

30:41

Daily, only ten to twenty percent of insects

30:43

and other invertebrate species have even

30:45

been described. And

30:47

named. And some populations

30:49

of flying insects like those in parts

30:51

of Germany have declined

30:53

seventy three percent in the last three

30:56

decades. Is it because you

30:58

keep squishing them with a Kleenex

31:00

and putting them in the toilet? Well,

31:02

Yes and no. There's a lot of factors: chiefly

31:04

habitat loss, pollution, invasive

31:07

species, and climate change all

31:09

contribute. are sad right now, and

31:11

I understand because I am too. I

31:13

love a bug. Are you kidding? So what can we

31:15

do? Dad warned, can we kiss a bug

31:17

on his tiny face? It's

31:19

tempting, but it's not helpful. So the same

31:21

Science Daily article had a tidy

31:24

list of what you can do, which I will

31:26

now read off with my mouth.

31:28

One, avoid mowing your garden frequently.

31:30

Alie let nature grow and feed

31:33

insects. You're welcome. Two, plant

31:35

native plants. Three, avoid

31:37

pesticides. Four, leave old

31:39

trees, stumps, and dead leaves

31:41

alone. That's where bugs live. Five,

31:43

build an insect hotel, why

31:45

don't you? Six, reduce your carbon

31:47

footprint in general. Seven, support,

31:49

and volunteer in conservation organizations.

31:51

Eight, don't release non native

31:54

species. So if your grandpa not appreciate the

31:56

emotional support of

31:56

Guatee, you got him, do not

31:58

let him release it on the patio. Nobody

32:01

wants that. Except the

32:03

iguana, and you ramp up. And lastly,

32:05

the article said, and I quote,

32:07

be more aware of tiny

32:09

creatures. Always look on the small side

32:11

of life. So appreciate the bugs

32:13

you see. They are precious and we

32:15

need them. And Alie superficially,

32:17

they're very beautiful. Also about

32:19

those conservation

32:20

organizations. Joseph, would love to be working with

32:23

them on accessibility. But

32:25

But, you know, it's stuff like that that

32:27

is, I guess, is a little more frustrating

32:30

and Alie when you look at the institutional level,

32:32

like, I've looked at possible

32:34

ways to get out of my

32:36

current line of work and into something that

32:39

is more conservation based. Mhmm. And

32:41

organizations like US fish

32:43

and wildlife or the various state

32:44

departments, they all require you to

32:47

have that a minimum

32:49

of

32:49

whatever the education requirements is

32:51

in natural sciences. My thoughts surrounding that

32:53

is some of these institutions

32:56

they they do have people that

32:58

are

32:59

on programs or

33:02

or push programs about accessibility

33:05

or

33:05

diversity. Mhmm. And I'm like,

33:08

okay. But where

33:10

are the people that actually have

33:12

to use these because most of the people that I see on their

33:15

accessibility programs are

33:17

not people with accessibility limitations.

33:19

Oh, that's rich. That's really

33:21

rich. Why isn't this a barrier to make sure that

33:23

they have a bachelors or masters in one of

33:25

the natural

33:25

sciences. They're working on your accessibility program.

33:28

Mhmm.

33:28

They don't need to know all of

33:30

the other stuff and you can teach them about all the other all

33:32

this other stuff anyway because that's what your entire

33:35

organization is

33:35

about. Yeah. There's more

33:37

that you can learn from them

33:40

than anything. So

33:41

-- Exactly.

33:42

-- open up the door and actually

33:44

improve the overall infrastructure

33:46

of your

33:46

organization. A

33:47

hundred So if there are accessibility positions

33:50

out there, staff them with folks who

33:52

know the most about accessibility

33:54

issues rather than have

33:56

these stringent natural science

33:58

degree requirements. So Joseph also

34:00

told me about being part of

34:02

several communities at

34:03

once, something that other folks may not

34:06

even consider. I

34:06

had a talk with doctor Newberry

34:09

at Bucknell University a while

34:11

ago. We were talking about essentially,

34:14

black people in natural sciences

34:17

and stuff like that. And, you know,

34:19

the

34:19

biggest thing

34:20

that I said to

34:22

him I think the important thing that I that I said to him is when it comes to,

34:24

you know, this momentum that we that lack of

34:26

instance, and other organizations are creating now,

34:30

is great essence of camaraderie. I don't want

34:34

to have to leave my

34:36

black community

34:37

to have my needs met as a disabled

34:40

person. Mhmm.

34:42

I want my

34:42

black community to be able to meet

34:45

those

34:45

needs. Because if I have to leave that black community

34:47

and I have to go to this other one, that means that I

34:49

have to start dealing with the anti

34:52

blackness that exists within those

34:53

communities. And I don't want that

34:55

either.

34:55

Yeah.

34:55

Important to me that, well, as we go forward, that we

34:57

are creating spaces and opportunities for

35:00

accessibility and stuff that is

35:02

not

35:03

not something where we're targeting disability

35:06

and where that's the overall

35:08

emphasis. But we are simply

35:10

creating Alie

35:12

doorway for them to come into the larger community and to go

35:14

on these tracks with the rest of them.

35:16

Is there anything equipment

35:19

wise that can that could be made available to

35:21

people that would help with that? Anything that exists? Anything that you wish

35:24

exists? Wish

35:26

exists. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's stuff

35:28

that does that does exist. So and I've seen

35:30

various models. The one that I get the most

35:32

is people will send me this chair that

35:34

they've seen that is mostly

35:37

not looks like motorized. And it's large enough

35:40

that basically you can push your manual chair

35:42

into it and it basically locks into it it

35:44

has Alie these tank

35:45

tracks. PS, I look this up, and yes,

35:47

it's like a small tank. I mean, on

35:50

one hand, there's some rugged fun to be

35:52

had. But on the

35:53

other, And I'm like, what

35:53

would I do with that in the field other than

35:56

just destroy a whole bunch of

35:58

habitat? Yeah. You ask me to,

36:00

like, basically climb

36:02

into tank and just kill all of the stuff that I'm actually trying to

36:04

see in photograph.

36:05

Yeah.

36:05

This giant piece of equipment is useless to me.

36:08

And that seems to be the kind of the go to

36:10

is Alie this whole motorized thing.

36:12

What I what I want to do

36:14

is if I ever get the

36:16

opportunity and maybe it'll

36:18

come as you know, things

36:20

with, like, a system progresses. I won't I

36:22

would like to I would love to sit down with an engineer

36:24

who does chairs or maybe someone

36:26

who doesn't do chairs, but just actually has

36:28

access to the resources and has enough imagination and

36:32

basically create an

36:34

outdoor chair that is usable

36:38

under manpower. It it's been tackled before. It wouldn't

36:40

be the first time there are a few other things,

36:42

but having played sports being

36:44

a pretty high functioning paraplegic

36:47

myself which

36:48

which also it it has to be taken into consideration. So,

36:50

I mean, if it just because it's usable by

36:52

me, doesn't mean

36:53

that's going to

36:54

be usable by someone that's a quadriplegic.

36:56

You know, so that's a different hurdle and may may be

36:59

a different piece of equipment. Me, being someone

37:01

that loves to be active, loves

37:03

to be

37:04

outdoors, I need a

37:06

chair that actually can

37:08

permit me the opportunity

37:10

to push my boundaries

37:13

to make me tired to

37:15

potentially get myself into some bad situations outdoors, but

37:18

also is capable enough to

37:20

get me

37:22

out of those bad situations. Mhmm. Mhmm. I have some ideas.

37:24

I don't know who to kick them around to.

37:26

Maybe one day, they will come

37:28

knocking. And I'm like, Yeah. Let's

37:31

make a chair. Yeah. There's any engineers listening

37:33

to this, hello, number one, follow

37:35

you on Instagram.

37:38

That's instagram dot comrealsongue else. Also

37:41

his website parahurpetrological dot com.

37:43

It's linked to the show

37:45

notes. I'm just saying. Because

37:47

you're stuff amazing. Send a message. That

37:49

would be that would be amazing if if

37:51

you became a pioneer of something

37:53

that could get more people out into nature that

37:56

wasn't also good for nature, that would be

37:58

huge. And I have so I

38:00

have so many Patreon questions. Can

38:02

I go to the patron

38:03

questions, and then I'm probably gonna have a million more. But Hey, I'm I am

38:05

here for you. I

38:06

I my schedule is

38:09

clear for the E and A.

38:11

We can stay on as

38:12

long as you hold, you can respond to questions or

38:15

more. It's

38:15

a four part allergies. How about you? But

38:17

before we get

38:19

to your questions, patrons, a few words from sponsors

38:21

who make it possible for us to just reign cash on

38:24

a worthy organization each

38:26

week, chosen by theologist. So this

38:28

week, Joseph

38:30

who says chronic migraines are one of the only things that can keep them from

38:32

the field, told us about the American

38:35

Chronic Pain Association, which since

38:38

nineteen eighty has offered peer support

38:40

groups and education in pain

38:42

management skills to people

38:44

with pain and their family and friends and healthcare professionals. So

38:46

their website is the

38:48

aacpa dot org. So

38:50

a donation went to

38:51

them. Thanks some sponsors in the show,

38:54

which you may hear about

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now. Wouldn't it be Bueno to learn a new language this year?

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it out. So you're in the garage working on your car and you

43:02

need the valves you bought last week. You look

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on the shelves. But the parts

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43:24

Let's ride. Okay,

43:26

to your questions. Many

43:28

of you, including Hillary Larson, Matt

43:30

Tocado, Keagan Andrews, Victoria Harding,

43:34

Ashley Calcufin, Carolina Gail Granick all asked the

43:36

same one that Kare had. I'm gonna

43:38

ask you a few turnaround

43:39

questions. Cool. Let's go.

43:41

Several hundred people have questions for you. Oh

43:43

my gosh. So many people wanted to

43:46

know about getting the perfect

43:48

shot. And

43:50

essentially a lot of people know, and this is Cora's

43:52

first time asking a question,

43:54

what do you look for

43:56

in a perfect shot? And others

43:59

wanted to

43:59

know, like, what is the longest you ever waited just to get

44:01

the perfect shot of a specimen? The longest

44:03

I waited with wildlife

44:06

in general it's really

44:08

only about timing and it's kind of about luck. You know,

44:10

you gotta put yourself out there enough

44:12

times to have

44:14

enough opportunities to surpass the numerous failures that

44:16

you're going to endure

44:19

togets and

44:22

fines that one creature that is cooperative enough and sits still

44:24

long enough for you to get your photos set it

44:26

up however you want to and execute

44:28

it. Mhmm. So

44:32

as far as how long I've waited, I would say not

44:34

very long because it's normally you go

44:36

into a situation and it

44:37

is, okay, I'm gonna take a photo. And

44:39

then whatever you're about to take up on

44:41

a

44:41

wall, runs away, flies away, says screw

44:44

you by fail, you move on to

44:46

the next one. So not really a whole lot of

44:48

time

44:48

spent, and it's kind of the same

44:50

thing as once you get that one,

44:51

and it's great that they're comfortable and

44:53

they just kinda chill and you

44:55

get your photos and then

44:57

you're you're on your way.

45:00

Sometimes they are semi cooperative

45:02

and these are the ones that drive me

45:05

crazy. Semi

45:06

quadrant being in the left with a pistol

45:08

for a second, and you'll have the shot lined up.

45:10

And as soon as you click the shutter, they

45:12

move. Why?

45:15

Why? Oh, they they drive

45:18

me absolutely mad

45:20

because they keep giving you hope

45:22

because they're not moving very

45:23

fast. They're not fleeing from you. They're just not staying

45:26

in that

45:28

same position.

45:29

And so

45:29

you continue to readjust

45:32

and reattack it and try to get

45:34

that shot. And I've

45:36

probably spent three

45:38

minutes

45:38

to an hour with probably one subject

45:40

trying to do that. Because the

45:43

your depth of field is

45:45

really, really shallow. Right? So if they move literally

45:47

even a

45:47

millimeter, it probably changes it. Oh, yeah. I

45:50

mean, if they if they move at

45:52

all, like, Yeah. It it completely changes what

45:54

area of the subject that's shooting a

45:56

sharp. Completely -- Mhmm. -- focus stacking

45:58

is is

46:00

kind of the way around that to some degree. But, I mean, even if they move when you're

46:02

focused acting, if they're they continuously move,

46:04

then you're just that's

46:06

a well until they stop. It's

46:09

like if you

46:09

can just please stop, stay

46:12

there, stay.

46:13

What

46:13

do you think your percentage is between

46:16

shooting and editing? So Joseph

46:18

says he doesn't do much tweaking in

46:20

terms of color because he wants the

46:22

natural beauty of the creature to really

46:24

come through. But what about the sheer number of

46:26

images he takes? Just

46:28

considering that it takes me

46:30

Alie at least

46:32

fourteen to maybe seventeen tries just

46:34

to get a selfie where I don't

46:36

look like my uncle Ron. Alie,

46:39

what is his ratio? How

46:41

many of his photos are garbage? I need

46:43

numbers. But do you have five thousand

46:46

photographs to go through?

46:47

He's just really good

46:48

at knowing when to pull the trigger. Yeah,

46:50

practice. Definitely. I mean, it's all

46:53

practice. And, I mean, I've got a lot

46:55

of throwaway stuff. Like, one of

46:58

these days, maybe I'll make it my post for tomorrow. I'll post, like, my

47:00

very first photo that I ever took of

47:02

any invert and then

47:05

something that's current so people can like,

47:07

really kinda understand where you start, and this, if you keep

47:10

doing it, is where you can end

47:12

up.

47:13

That's great. That'll be so encouraging for for those

47:16

of us who have a lot of blurry

47:18

photos. Bugs on

47:19

her. I mean, I I had tons

47:21

of them, Mike. It's funny.

47:23

Like, ever Alie, since you you you've been campaigning

47:26

to give me more followers, like, other people

47:28

are going through, like, the history of my stuff and, you

47:30

know, they're liking those and I'm looking at them.

47:32

I'm,

47:32

like, pringing and I'm oh god. I

47:34

can't believe I actually shared this thinking

47:36

that somebody was going to appreciate this.

47:38

That is such a terrible

47:41

photo.

47:42

Dude, that's how I feel when people are like, I started listing to allergies from

47:45

episode one. I'm like, no.

47:47

In the same way, everyone feels

47:49

that way and that's It's

47:51

so funny because it's just that means that you're

47:54

progressing. But I I

47:56

totally I totally get that.

47:58

We see on progress

48:00

with in such a different lens, if

48:02

you will. And there's

48:04

someone who who follows you Timothy

48:06

Dykes, who also loves

48:08

macro photography. And they

48:10

asked, what macro photo did

48:12

you take that blew your mind once

48:14

you saw the details you otherwise couldn't

48:16

see with your eyes? And they say

48:18

for me, it's been the scales of moths

48:20

and butterflies or the hares on

48:22

caterpillars or textures

48:24

on beetles. And so did you see any details of

48:26

anything that you were Alie, what?

48:30

That's

48:31

a good

48:34

question. I

48:34

don't have an immediate answer for that one. Okay. Well, he

48:35

thinks I have to tell you once I took a

48:38

photo of a Daisy and it wasn't

48:40

until I zoomed

48:42

in later. That I saw a perfectly matching globular

48:44

spring tail, which is a tiny

48:46

bug with a big cute butt. It

48:48

looks kinda like a Pokemon character. cannot

48:52

stress how globular its spring

48:54

tail is. It's perfect. So

48:56

this hidden world of hallucination

48:59

is just one magnification

49:01

lens

49:01

away. It's really not

49:04

about the

49:06

animal itself, I

49:08

think. And maybe it's just because

49:10

it's a pet peeve of

49:11

mine. So sometimes when I'm approaching these really

49:13

high these higher magnification images,

49:17

is dust. Like, especially

49:20

with these fuzzy jumping spiders and they

49:22

will have, like, dust all over their face.

49:25

And I'm like, have you just been rolling around in dirt?

49:27

Well, yes. Obviously, you have been rolling around

49:29

in dirt. But did you

49:30

have at least,

49:31

I don't know, prepared, cleaned yourself

49:34

before we did this? Oh

49:36

my god. It's, like, watching

49:38

someone, like, eat potato chips and having them

49:40

in their beard. Yep. You're like, you got a little

49:42

you got a little right

49:44

there?

49:44

It is exactly that it

49:47

is maddening. Oh my

49:49

god.

49:49

Four dots, a

49:52

patron, says was their

49:55

response to you being on the

49:57

show. Any good online classes? It's been

49:59

a while since they used their camera, but they would love

50:01

to get back to it. So I

50:04

haven't taken any classes. Well, no. That's not true. I

50:06

haven't taken any online

50:08

classes. I have taken two in

50:10

person classes another

50:12

macro photographer. His name is Thomas Sheihan. Mhmm.

50:15

He's also in

50:17

Oklahoma. And his is,

50:19

like, first work that I really kind of started to look at and study.

50:21

First thing I did is I just started

50:24

reading different

50:27

concepts about fighting composite lighting composition

50:30

exposure, how to use your camera

50:32

to the fullest extent of

50:34

its capabilities. You

50:36

know, shooting in manual instead of auto or

50:39

even the macro mode, the macro

50:41

dial that is on some cameras.

50:44

Not quite as efficient as if you were able to actually

50:46

shoot with macro or in in

50:48

manual. Sorry. And then

50:51

The other thing with me has

50:53

just been has been lighting,

50:54

seeing what other people are doing when

50:56

it comes to lighting, how to actually get

50:58

that soft light. Especially since I mean, when you're shooting

51:00

macro, you have to have external

51:02

light. You can't get around it. So

51:04

manual settings can be even

51:06

better than the pre programmed

51:08

macro settings. And while we're all here, why not? Let's have a quick breakdown

51:11

of some macro photography terms. So

51:13

first of all,

51:16

In terms of lenses, Canon calls macro lenses

51:18

macro lenses, but Nikon calls

51:20

them micro. So don't get

51:23

thrown off by that. I don't know

51:25

why. I'm not here for a Canon Nikon Field. You can do that among yourselves. Now,

51:27

when it comes to lens length, it depends

51:29

on what you're shooting.

51:32

So some experts say forty five to sixty five millimeters is good

51:34

for product photography, ninety to

51:36

a hundred and five millimeters, good for

51:38

bugs and flowers and small objects, and

51:42

hundred and fifty to two hundred millimeters better for being

51:44

farther away from your subjects. But

51:46

we're gonna talk about some super cheap

51:49

hacks if you don't to invest in a bunch of lenses

51:51

for this. Also, in general, the

51:54

higher your f stop, the smaller

51:56

the aperture, and the

51:58

more crisp the details in your photo will be. But also, the

52:00

higher the f stop, the smaller the

52:02

aperture, the less light you're letting in,

52:04

so the longer the aperture has to

52:06

be open.

52:08

But if it's open longer and your shutter speed is slow,

52:10

that could lead to blurring if

52:12

your tiny little model moves.

52:16

So you can get around that by having a high f stop,

52:18

which means a small aperture and more

52:21

light, like sunlight, or a flash?

52:23

What are we talking? Some of

52:25

the stuff is just you're so

52:27

close so close to the subject

52:29

that there's no other the natural

52:31

light is not penetrating into the

52:33

lens. You're too close. So we

52:36

have to have some flash, but you have to

52:38

make that that flash soft, so it's still appealing. And I I

52:40

just read read reading and looking

52:42

at other people's work is kind of really the

52:44

way

52:45

that I've learned over the

52:48

years and practice practice

52:50

constantly. Keep practicing. A

52:52

bunch of patrons wanted to know how to

52:54

get little critters to sit still while

52:56

you're shooting them or while they're, like,

52:58

waiting in their dressing room to get shot.

53:00

Michael Weir, Don Ewald, May Merrill, Ira

53:02

Gray, Thomas and Wyndham, Ashley Conan, and

53:05

Marika Shen all wanted to know, as did,

53:08

Charlotte Felkegaard, who asked, flying

53:10

insects, how to

53:12

photograph them so they're sharp and snazzy and not just an adorable

53:14

blur, or it was

53:16

just here now, I swear,

53:18

they say, have

53:20

bugs that you say will

53:22

kind of collect and hold in

53:24

like a green room say until you're

53:27

ready to shoot

53:27

them? Or do kind of

53:30

you shoot them just in their setting

53:32

where they would be and you're just you kind of

53:34

are out on the prowl and you shoot as

53:37

you see them? A little bit of both. It

53:40

depends in some cases. Select the the one

53:42

that if if you look at my Instagram, the

53:44

one that I posted, I

53:46

think, yesterday. That tiger beetle, I

53:48

definitely caught that

53:49

guy. No. They do

53:51

not sit still.

53:53

So I caught him. I let him settle down

53:56

for a little bit.

53:58

And after that, I was able to approach it

54:00

a little bit differently and get

54:02

my

54:02

shots. By the way, if you follow reels on wheels, you may

54:04

remember that this is a shot of

54:06

a tiger beetle. And usually, we see

54:09

them from above. And their backs

54:11

are maybe greenish blue and metallic. They're kinda clamoring

54:14

around leaves a

54:16

drunk robot. But way

54:18

Joseph got his shots was head on

54:20

staring straight into their jaws,

54:22

which honestly looks like if

54:25

moose antlers had been dipped in

54:27

gun metal just ready to

54:30

nash up whatever prey was

54:32

unlucky enough. To find itself

54:34

crushed in them. And it gave me, like, a

54:36

whole new perspective and

54:38

a respect for these tiger

54:40

beetles. And there are also one of the ones absolutely masterful

54:42

because at driving you crazy.

54:44

Because you approach

54:46

them, and

54:48

then they'll fly, but they don't fly very far. They

54:50

will fly

54:51

about six, ten feet away from you where you

54:53

can still see there. And

54:56

it's

54:57

this whole game of Cat and mouse, and you can't catch me. And

54:59

I'm just Alie, Alright. How am

55:01

I gonna work around

55:03

this one? But,

55:06

I mean, anytime that I can, I

55:08

I like to shoot where

55:10

they are as they are -- Mhmm.

55:13

-- with his little disruption to that as I

55:15

as I possibly can. The best way that

55:17

I found to do that is

55:19

by finding spaces

55:22

where manmade infrastructure

55:24

and nature meet. Mhmm. Kinda

55:26

like parks, park benches, especially,

55:29

like, there's one park

55:31

here where there's this large

55:34

walkway that's completely built from

55:36

wood and it's covered

55:38

by trees. And underneath

55:40

it, all of the

55:43

the foliage from all the winters or

55:45

falls

55:45

past, you know, all of

55:47

that stuff is built up around there. So there

55:49

are inverterbirds everywhere all the time,

55:51

and they're pretty desensitized

55:53

to human presence. So

55:56

you can, you know, it's granting me a

55:58

lot of experience and opportunities to

55:59

continue. Oh, that's amazing. That's

56:02

that's such a good tip. Yeah. The

56:04

way that the way that

56:06

you can turn a spider into

56:08

like a like a Star

56:11

Wars character almost Do you know what I

56:13

mean? Alie, they look like? They look like

56:16

these beautiful little aliens.

56:18

When you see up you see how many

56:20

eyes and hairs and

56:22

they're little. They're calissa right. Like, it's just

56:24

amazing. Like, your leafhopper from

56:26

the other day looks

56:28

like it looks like a Star Wars character to me. I

56:30

don't know

56:32

why. Honestly, these helmety heads and the big

56:34

visor eyes. They've got

56:36

these gleaming robotic exoskeletons.

56:39

It's the stuff of Cifi

56:42

franchises and action figures.

56:44

Now, if Joseph work has inspired you

56:46

to get up close and personal with

56:49

a slug or face to

56:51

face, with a winged tiny. What will

56:53

you need? Less than you think perhaps.

56:55

So patrons, Marilyn Scrap, Fannie, Laura

56:58

Darnell, Dewey James, Patrick

57:00

Shaw, Alie Coast, Kat Lindsey, Meghan

57:02

McLean, Howard Yermish, Rachel Vice

57:04

James Miller, Kelly King, Ariana Matson,

57:06

Tina, h a proppo, and m,

57:08

all want to know essentially what Matthew Sparks

57:10

asked, which is Do you have

57:12

any alternate kit suggestions for

57:14

beginners who really want to start shooting

57:16

macro photography but can't afford a

57:18

macro lens? Oh, boy, howdy

57:20

does he? So many people, and you do not have to

57:22

divulge this, but so many

57:24

people are begging to know what kind

57:26

of cameras or

57:28

lenses or

57:30

Any anything gear wise that you

57:32

can dish on?

57:34

So I'm I'm gonna take

57:35

one further and I'm gonna add this.

57:38

I I

57:39

my personal opinion is that

57:41

that photographers that try

57:43

to hoard all of their information of how they

57:45

got to where they are

57:47

jerks. What? You

57:47

heard me. Okay.

57:50

There there is

57:51

no reason not to share as much information

57:53

as you possibly

57:56

can

57:56

because at the bottom line, there's no

57:58

two brains that think

58:02

exactly Alie. And there's no and

58:04

especially when you're dealing with wildlife, because it

58:06

is not there to accommodate you like a model

58:08

is. You you can't instruct it on how

58:10

to actually pose for you. You have

58:13

to just get what they give and make the most out of that situation. And no two

58:15

scenarios like that are going to

58:17

be exactly

58:17

alike. So

58:21

I can imparts whatever knowledge

58:24

I want and whatever skill that a person

58:26

is willing to actually gain for themselves

58:29

through practice our photos are still

58:29

not going to be the same photos. Right.

58:31

So there's no reason not to share

58:34

it. I shoot. Now I

58:36

started with a Canon

58:38

t five by, which is a Rebel series, which is an introductory

58:40

DSLR. I now

58:42

shoot with a Canon ninety d.

58:46

Significant upgrade in resolution. Like, I could

58:48

print massive prints of

58:50

my images of tiny

58:52

things. And that was the whole

58:54

reason that I got the camera.

58:55

Canon also offers mirrorless.

58:55

I'm not trusting mirrorless yet because

58:58

Canon is new

59:00

to mirrorless. So

59:01

I'm waiting to see what

59:03

that that

59:04

period is and see what how

59:06

how it's received by other photographers.

59:08

I looked it up for us, and a rebel body, you get used for less than

59:11

two hundred bucks. So that's good. And when

59:13

he says mirrorless, that's

59:16

as opposed to a DSLR camera. And a DSLR stands

59:19

for digital because no

59:21

film, single lens, reflex,

59:24

which means that there's a mirror in the back of the

59:26

camera and it bounces the

59:28

image through the lens, up through your

59:30

prism, through the viewfinder into

59:32

your eye. And that means when you hit the button to take the the

59:34

mirror has to flick out of the way

59:36

and it lets the shutter behind

59:38

it open and the sensor

59:40

records the visual information.

59:42

So that is what

59:44

those noises are in

59:46

press conferences. That's the

59:48

mirrors clicking and clicking in a

59:50

camera. Now you know. Now mirrorless

59:52

cameras, those rely instead

59:54

on a mirror put it through a prism, to put it through

59:56

a viewfinder, to go in your eye. They rely on

59:58

a digital preview, which could have a

1:00:00

little bit of lag time. Also, there is some

1:00:02

differences between auto focuses, but if nothing else, now when

1:00:05

you hear your phone making

1:00:07

that shutter clicking noise,

1:00:10

you'll think about how weird it is that they had to record sound of a

1:00:12

mirror flipping up to tell you

1:00:15

that your picture took.

1:00:18

Yes. I don't know if I can

1:00:20

go wrong. Venus optics or

1:00:24

laua? I think it's LA0WA.

1:00:28

They are they manufacture

1:00:30

lenses, and they really

1:00:32

seem to cater to macro photographers. They

1:00:34

have a wonderful assortment of stuff. But

1:00:36

a lot of their lenses are manual,

1:00:38

so they don't have electronic aperture settings. So

1:00:41

you really have to know your

1:00:43

gear and know what how it's actually manipulated by hand

1:00:45

rather than within the camera itself. So

1:00:47

that's essentially what I guess. I

1:00:49

think I have five

1:00:51

or six different macro lenses. If you're just

1:00:54

starting out, you can get a

1:00:56

basic, like,

1:00:56

kit lens, and if you get a

1:00:58

reversible ring that you can attach

1:01:00

to your camera. You can flip that lens around, attach it to

1:01:03

the lens, and it essentially inverses

1:01:05

the optics. So you basically

1:01:07

have like an

1:01:10

a macro lens that will get a lot closer than say like

1:01:12

a regular fifty or sixty millimeter would.

1:01:14

What? You can flip

1:01:17

a lens around backwards and use it that way? That's that

1:01:19

clearly, and you can take your shirt off and wear it

1:01:21

as

1:01:21

pants. That's one thing that Thomas

1:01:24

Sheihan, like one of the guys that I've learned from

1:01:26

used to

1:01:28

do. Because he he's he's a hardcore,

1:01:30

like, budget or or

1:01:33

thrift thrift seeker.

1:01:36

He he's I'm a

1:01:37

gearhead. Like, I think holiday gearhead. I love

1:01:39

new gadgets and toys and being

1:01:41

into play with stuff. not

1:01:44

in that position,

1:01:46

just get any camera that

1:01:48

you can get your hands on, get

1:01:51

a reversible ring so that you can

1:01:53

actually attach that to it or just

1:01:55

shop around for cheap

1:01:57

used macro

1:01:58

lenses. You can usually find them at

1:02:00

fairly affordable prices and work on your lighting. You need diffuse

1:02:02

light. Okay. So a speed light

1:02:05

is that flash attachment that

1:02:08

clicks on top of the camera. But point it directly at little critter, and

1:02:10

it's kinda like taking a picture of yourself

1:02:12

under a bay of fluorescence. You

1:02:15

kinda wanna soften it a

1:02:17

little bit. Just diffuse it. You want your crickets

1:02:19

to feel

1:02:20

handsome. Right now, I'm experimenting

1:02:22

with a piece of foam.

1:02:24

Mhmm. And I basically have cut a whole out of this Alie of foam

1:02:27

that my lens fits through. And

1:02:29

so my flash sits on top of

1:02:31

the camera. And so when

1:02:34

the Flash bursts. It is essentially diffused through

1:02:36

this piece of foam, so it spreads it out more and

1:02:38

then it's softer once it actually reaches the subject.

1:02:42

Oh, wow. it's easy

1:02:44

way. I mean, the foam is

1:02:45

cheap. You know, if

1:02:46

I mess one up, I just go cut out and

1:02:48

make another one. It's not the most environmentally

1:02:52

friendly because phone kinda sucks. And there's other ways to kinda just do it

1:02:54

yourself. I I have a friend of

1:02:56

mine who took like an

1:02:58

old

1:02:59

cereal box

1:03:00

formed it so that it actually fit over his speedlight Alie the

1:03:02

flash on the camera, and then he covered

1:03:05

the cereal box with a

1:03:07

bunch of plastic bags. And

1:03:10

that's his

1:03:11

light diffuser. Uh-huh. That's amazing.

1:03:13

You know, it it's really it's

1:03:15

literally endless. Thomas Shahan, he -- Mhmm. --

1:03:18

he takes, like,

1:03:20

AAA classic sheet,

1:03:21

like your paper

1:03:22

protectors. Like, a

1:03:23

eight, you know,

1:03:23

eight by eleven paper protectors. And

1:03:26

then he puts a bunch

1:03:28

of, like, tracing

1:03:30

paper into

1:03:30

that, and then he takes a, like,

1:03:32

a wire hanger to actually create his

1:03:35

his outer ring of it so he can shape

1:03:37

it however he wants

1:03:38

to. And

1:03:38

that's his, like, user.

1:03:39

Nah. It's literally, do

1:03:40

what you want. It's -- Yeah. -- you know,

1:03:42

do it yourself

1:03:43

if you can build stuff around the house.

1:03:45

You know, there's all

1:03:48

kinds of options. But I I would still stress

1:03:50

that if you're going to do it, make

1:03:52

sure the light is right. The

1:03:55

the light is important. Get spend

1:03:57

spend some time in getting the

1:03:57

light. Right? I'm ready for my close-up. A lot of people

1:04:00

wondered, Leon.

1:04:02

Leonor Shuster.

1:04:06

Ellen Silva Meghan Walker, Sylvia

1:04:08

Trivario, Ellen Darnell, Tino, h

1:04:10

a, Rockbo, Chelsea Nichols,

1:04:12

Rachel Soder, and Rachel DeGrof

1:04:14

kind of we're wondering, is there anything on your iPhone

1:04:16

that you could do if you just want

1:04:19

to maybe make

1:04:22

your time in the

1:04:24

park a little bit more macro

1:04:26

friendly. If you're if you're not aspiring

1:04:28

to say, Joseph

1:04:30

Saunders' levels of amazingness, but you wanna put something on your phone, like an

1:04:32

Oleo clip. What do you anything like that that you

1:04:34

recommend? I

1:04:38

I can't recommend anything on I don't any attachments to

1:04:41

my phone. Mhmm. I

1:04:43

do know there's

1:04:45

so we a friend of mine puts

1:04:48

on a moth

1:04:49

knight where he basically puts a bunch

1:04:51

of lights around this area and spreads

1:04:54

out these sheets and it collects all

1:04:56

kinds of bugs. It's great.

1:04:58

And I know one guy, he doesn't have

1:05:00

a camera. He has a phone. He has attachment to his

1:05:02

phone, and that's what he uses to grow in an issue with

1:05:04

mods, and he he gets an excellent perspective.

1:05:06

On what they are. You

1:05:07

know, it it is in it is

1:05:09

a really incredible device

1:05:12

to be

1:05:12

able to get

1:05:13

a very clear photo

1:05:16

that is

1:05:17

up close to very small things. Mhmm. Since it

1:05:19

is attached to your phone, it's going to

1:05:21

be really difficult to get the

1:05:23

lighting and exposure or

1:05:25

have as much control over that as

1:05:28

someone shooting a DSLR with speed

1:05:30

light and flash

1:05:32

diffusion wood. But if you just want to learn more

1:05:34

about the tiny

1:05:36

world that we exist in, because it's really

1:05:39

Alie is the bugs planet where you're but they're just allowing us to

1:05:41

be a part of it. I I

1:05:44

would strongly recommend that.

1:05:46

I honestly, to some degree, I I

1:05:49

miss it. Because I I still remember when I

1:05:51

first started

1:05:51

shooting, you know, I was

1:05:53

just wondering about

1:05:53

taking pictures of anything. Yeah. Trying to

1:05:56

get

1:05:56

something that just looks sharp.

1:05:58

Because that's that's where you start. You try to get, you know, something sharp, and then you work

1:06:01

on the exposure, and then you work on the

1:06:03

composition, and then you work on the lighting,

1:06:05

and then

1:06:05

you etcetera, you

1:06:08

know. Down the line. And now you're up to some level

1:06:10

where you can capture, like, a jumping spider

1:06:12

having one slow tear running out

1:06:14

of its eye that almost looks like

1:06:17

got both the loneliness and

1:06:20

regret. You've, like, your

1:06:22

subjects are meryl Streep

1:06:23

and, like, a moment of

1:06:26

contemplation. That's amazing. But

1:06:28

but so but at the same time,

1:06:32

that does limit me because I spend more time on each individual

1:06:34

one, and I'm not just running around taking

1:06:36

photos of every little thing that I see.

1:06:40

Mhmm.

1:06:40

Because I limit myself based on the

1:06:42

quality of the photo that I can get. Just

1:06:45

Also,

1:06:45

can I So Can I just say

1:06:47

that everyone needs to have a friend that puts on a mouth party? Like,

1:06:49

if you don't have

1:06:52

a group chat with at least one person who's

1:06:54

Alie, I've got the black light in the

1:06:56

sheet. Where are we

1:06:57

meeting? Like, you need new friends? No

1:06:59

kidding. as

1:07:00

long as I

1:07:01

as long as I've been doing this, I've

1:07:03

I met him just last year. Mhmm.

1:07:06

And it's it's fun

1:07:08

to actually be there's a photo that's on my

1:07:10

Instagram mobile,

1:07:12

horsefly. In the house. Yes. I know that one. That was actually

1:07:14

taken at the first mott tonight that I went

1:07:16

to. And, like, the

1:07:20

the they frustrate me. So they they land on the sheet. And the only

1:07:22

thing the only photo that you're going to get Alie any of

1:07:24

these mods is just a

1:07:26

plain doorcel

1:07:28

photograph that is really good for identification and

1:07:30

that's kind of about it

1:07:33

from a photographer's perspective. So,

1:07:35

you know, they're going crazy over Mars because he loves

1:07:38

Mars. And I'm all

1:07:40

for it. I love his enthusiasm about it,

1:07:42

but I'm running around another place is looking

1:07:45

for something else that is perched

1:07:47

up somewhere else. Actually, the

1:07:49

the leafhopper was photographed at the

1:07:51

last one that I went

1:07:53

to. Oh, my gosh. Oh,

1:07:55

great news. National moth

1:07:58

week, July eighteenth through twenty

1:08:00

eighth. Nice. By the way,

1:08:02

for more on this c national

1:08:04

mothweek dot org or you can follow

1:08:06

Twitter dot com slash

1:08:07

mothweek. So just when you

1:08:10

thought that

1:08:10

summer parties were canceled. There's always you and

1:08:12

fifty bucks. That is a thing. Yeah. You're

1:08:14

able to get a lot of, like, facial angles too.

1:08:19

And is that a matter of you having to move your

1:08:21

lens to them? Or can you kind of

1:08:23

like gently urge them

1:08:25

with a pencil to like face here

1:08:27

darling. Both. Mhmm. You know,

1:08:28

if you can move if you

1:08:30

move yourself,

1:08:31

that is the preferred idea

1:08:36

sometimes. They are just a little bit

1:08:38

off and you want them to sit just like so to get the angle that

1:08:43

you want. Best way to go about doing that not to use any part

1:08:45

of your own body because there there's

1:08:47

something about human touch.

1:08:50

They recognize it as something

1:08:54

to get away

1:08:55

from. Not really hard drive. I will of a leaf

1:08:57

or something that

1:09:00

is much small

1:09:02

than them and just very gently try

1:09:04

to coax them more into a different

1:09:06

location. And that I have much

1:09:09

greater success with

1:09:10

that. Oh, smart. They're like, okay. This leaf just wants me to be back. Alie.

1:09:12

know what

1:09:13

that is. That's that's not gonna be mean.

1:09:15

This is fine. Yeah. It

1:09:18

can't feel your heart beat for your fingertips -- Yeah. -- with a

1:09:21

with a hunger for

1:09:23

bods. Let me see.

1:09:26

Okay. I loved this question. Several people

1:09:28

asked it, Kathleen Josie

1:09:30

Gumbos, Kath Lindsey, Adrian Hollister,

1:09:32

and Nicole Walkery.

1:09:35

Because they asked it verbatim

1:09:37

the exact same question. Literally, what

1:09:39

has been your favorite animal to

1:09:41

photograph? And Nicole

1:09:44

bonus question

1:09:45

any critters that give

1:09:47

you the creeps? Favorite

1:09:50

animal to photograph. Our

1:09:52

house specific way going going Alie specific?

1:09:54

Or Sure. Like, even if you're like, I

1:09:55

I met one, her name was Julie. She

1:09:58

was a mantis. Like,

1:10:00

I'm all in as specific as you wanna

1:10:02

get. I love them. I love

1:10:02

them too. Oh my god. I had a pet one named Mirabelle, and

1:10:05

she died. We had an

1:10:07

open casket funeral. III

1:10:10

have three man's assistants right

1:10:11

now. Oh, my gosh. Now

1:10:11

are those

1:10:11

like the Orchid ones that I've been seeing you photograph? I do have there

1:10:13

there is a young it wasn't

1:10:16

an Orchid it

1:10:19

it was a Spiny Asian Spiny

1:10:20

Mantis. Oh, oh, my gosh. Beautiful.

1:10:22

Was one of those recently. That was

1:10:23

when it was still very

1:10:26

young. It's an adult now. Okay. So imagine a manta that looks

1:10:28

like something from a Ridley

1:10:30

Scott fever dream. Just huge,

1:10:32

shiny eyes, and

1:10:35

sharp ankles, and spines, It's chilling

1:10:37

and tiny and elegant. I have the green

1:10:38

dosages. I think there's

1:10:39

a photo of them out there. Yeah. And

1:10:43

I have a an African twig

1:10:44

mantis. I haven't posted a photo of him yet,

1:10:47

but he's pretty cool. Wait. Which is

1:10:49

the one that looks

1:10:51

like it is like an alien.

1:10:53

The one that's has, like, the oh

1:10:55

my

1:10:55

gosh. Those ones

1:10:57

look like a

1:10:59

leaf grow of face. And

1:11:01

then became a supermodel. Oh, the

1:11:03

cheekbones. Amazing.

1:11:03

Yeah. So I've varieties of those.

1:11:05

I have two photos up there

1:11:07

of my black one. She

1:11:10

was the

1:11:11

first one that I ever got. She has since passed

1:11:13

away because they have a very short

1:11:15

Alie span, unfortunately. Alie only

1:11:17

live about twelve to

1:11:19

eighteen months. She was just at over about

1:11:22

twelve months. Manta's are amazing. I love to find them and

1:11:24

see them, especially in the wild. I

1:11:26

really wish there was a greater diversity of

1:11:28

Manta's in

1:11:30

Oklahoma. I think when we have, like, one no.

1:11:32

We have two species that I'm aware

1:11:34

of. And

1:11:35

obviously, jumping spiders

1:11:37

because -- Oh. -- jumping spiders.

1:11:38

Now anybody doesn't on spiders. Like, it's at this point, I

1:11:41

understand I

1:11:41

I kinda

1:11:42

get, you know, an uneasiness about

1:11:45

spiders, which sort

1:11:48

of answers the

1:11:49

other question. So I've got I I actually started with a little

1:11:51

more uneasiness about spiders and then there was one night that I was

1:11:53

in the park and there was this massive

1:11:55

hole in a

1:11:56

tree. I

1:11:58

was just like, I just know there's going to be one night that

1:12:01

I'm going to shine that whole niche and

1:12:03

there's going to be something in

1:12:05

it near it or something

1:12:07

else that's gonna freak me

1:12:09

out. And the

1:12:10

one behind me one night, I was leaving the park.

1:12:12

It was behind me, but I remembered

1:12:14

that it was there. I turned around

1:12:18

shine my light and there was

1:12:20

a a fishing

1:12:21

spider. Quick aside,

1:12:23

how do

1:12:23

you describe a fishing spider?

1:12:25

It is not little. These things pluck fish out

1:12:28

of the water and they eat

1:12:30

them like corn on the cob.

1:12:32

Oh.

1:12:34

And the legs span on this fishing spider was equal to

1:12:36

my hand. And my hands aren't small.

1:12:38

I can pull them a basketball and

1:12:40

if it kinda gives you some, like, some

1:12:42

sort of perspective. He's a big spider.

1:12:44

And I was like, there's no way

1:12:46

I can not take a photo of

1:12:47

this. III have

1:12:50

to rise up the

1:12:52

equation.

1:12:53

And I had to, like, kinda coach myself, you

1:12:55

know, this to kinda get close. I was like, if this thing jumps off that tree and my face, I'm

1:12:59

going to scream.

1:13:01

But I'm going to do this

1:13:03

anyway even though that's maybe a possibility in my imagination. And I

1:13:06

did. The photos are terrible

1:13:09

because this was very early on. And I I desperately

1:13:11

want to find another one so that

1:13:14

I

1:13:14

can do

1:13:15

this again. So now I'm like,

1:13:18

okay. Now it's been like five years. I I'm ready for you now. You're like dude.

1:13:20

But I

1:13:20

mean, nothing ill came of it. Like, I

1:13:22

don't think she moved at all. Like,

1:13:27

certain she was a female just because of the sides. I mean, they their

1:13:29

sexual

1:13:29

dimorphic. Males are usually very tiny. She was

1:13:31

a massive spider.

1:13:35

Oh, my gosh. Sorry. I just got distracted. I just saw

1:13:37

a jumping spider on the wall. Do

1:13:39

you know which

1:13:39

one? What kind

1:13:41

of do you? I'm pretty sure

1:13:43

it's

1:13:43

the maybe inclemons. Because

1:13:46

So

1:13:46

my my partner, she

1:13:47

keeps dark frogs and tree

1:13:52

frogs. So we feed a lot

1:13:54

of feeder insects. And so Oh, that's why transplants jumping spiders into

1:13:56

the house because I have a partner

1:13:58

that's awesome and lets me do that

1:14:01

and they they keep their fruit

1:14:03

Do have do

1:14:07

you have, like, a dream

1:14:09

assignment or project that you would wanna work on? Would it be to

1:14:11

kind of like infiltrate net geos?

1:14:16

Ranks and have assignments for them?

1:14:18

Would you wanna, yeah, like, publish a book? Is there anything that that you really

1:14:23

want to do with your photography that would be like a dream for

1:14:26

you? So I I would absolutely jump

1:14:28

at the chance

1:14:31

to work for someone like Nat

1:14:33

Geo. So dream assignment, though. Mhmm. My dream

1:14:35

would to be able

1:14:38

to host, like, a

1:14:40

gallery of

1:14:42

my images on balls. But I

1:14:44

want to do this in the

1:14:46

hood. I I don't want to

1:14:47

do this in just in some

1:14:50

I I mean, I I would the opportunity if it was some prestigious

1:14:52

location or anything like that

1:14:54

at all. But I want black

1:14:59

children from my neighborhood to actually see this and to

1:15:01

take an interest in it and to

1:15:03

actually see themselves reflected in

1:15:05

the work that I

1:15:07

do and consider it a possibility for their

1:15:09

own futures. That's my dream opportunity is I I want

1:15:12

them to have access to

1:15:14

what I do because I know

1:15:16

my

1:15:17

doorway into this coming from a middle class military

1:15:19

family is different than what some of my black

1:15:21

peers experience earlier in

1:15:24

their lives.

1:15:27

So more than

1:15:28

anything, that's that's what I want.

1:15:31

Again, he just set up

1:15:33

his Patreon yesterday So if you wanna see shots

1:15:35

he doesn't show on the rest of the Internet,

1:15:38

go to patreon dot com slash j d

1:15:40

Monroe. I

1:15:42

am like, begging him to do a calendar one day,

1:15:44

but he's plotting his next

1:15:46

move. So

1:15:46

even like, even through, like,

1:15:49

the week of Black Burger's week, and

1:15:51

I probably now Alie much as

1:15:53

praise and that

1:15:54

I've been

1:15:54

getting in as much as I

1:15:58

appreciate

1:15:58

it. Like, many of my peers, I still deal with

1:16:00

Emposture syndrome. I'm like, am I actually

1:16:02

as good as some of the people that

1:16:04

I used to look up to? Like, am I

1:16:07

there yet? So the whole idea of, like, printing, selling, and doing all

1:16:09

these things with my photos, I'm I

1:16:11

just, like, take a pretty

1:16:14

pictures of bugs.

1:16:14

And

1:16:15

I know. I know. I don't burden

1:16:17

me with all of the other logistics

1:16:19

of, like, being professional and

1:16:21

dealing with money. Like, Just give me, like, a really

1:16:24

big bag of money or something, and I'll just do all

1:16:26

of this for sort of a free so that I don't

1:16:29

actually set set prices and stuff. Oh, my other question from

1:16:31

earlier was, do you have any idea what bird that is

1:16:33

singing in the background? Because I know people are gonna ask

1:16:36

me. What bird? Wait a

1:16:38

moment. There was

1:16:39

a

1:16:39

bird earlier. And

1:16:40

and the

1:16:41

No idea. Was that

1:16:42

around

1:16:43

here with me? Yeah. That was not a bird. That was a frog. That

1:16:43

was a frog. What

1:16:49

kind of frog was it? That

1:16:51

was either a Dinto babies

1:16:55

or rodus. Okay. He wasn't sure

1:16:57

exactly which frog it was because his awesome partner has five species of poison dart frog and

1:16:59

four species of

1:17:04

tree frog. That is nine more species of frogs than I

1:17:06

get to live with. And, yes, I wanna be friends with her too so bad.

1:17:08

That's amazing. I thought that they

1:17:10

were birds out the window, but I

1:17:12

even I love it even more now

1:17:15

that I know it's a frog. That's amazing. Because I

1:17:17

knew people were gonna ask me. Also, I wanted to ask,

1:17:19

do you have any advice for

1:17:22

people that you wish you had known

1:17:25

earlier or when you were

1:17:26

younger. Anything that you wished

1:17:29

you had a voice

1:17:31

like yours? Man, that is that is a heavy one.

1:17:33

Wow. So one

1:17:36

for for black

1:17:37

children, there are ways in

1:17:39

non black homes. It it is perfectly within your

1:17:41

right. It is not only within your right, but it is

1:17:44

good for you and

1:17:46

necessary for you to understand

1:17:48

that your life

1:17:50

and your experiences, and even your personhood is different from other

1:17:53

people in

1:17:56

your family. You do

1:17:58

not have to limit yourself or push

1:18:00

yourself to try to

1:18:03

fit in or to lower

1:18:06

or lessen your blackness to

1:18:09

make them comfortable, not

1:18:11

even your

1:18:11

family. Live in your blackness,

1:18:14

love your blackness, wear it with pride, and if they cannot

1:18:16

accept that, move around it

1:18:18

and find people will

1:18:20

because your

1:18:21

blackness is not going

1:18:23

to go away. This country, especially will remind

1:18:25

you of it, the

1:18:27

rest of your life, especially

1:18:29

when you are

1:18:31

away from

1:18:32

them. So

1:18:33

learn to love it, learn to live in it, learn to

1:18:35

defend it,

1:18:35

and learn to defend others as well. The

1:18:39

dude is

1:18:39

awesome. As far as disability, test your boundaries, don't don't

1:18:41

be afraid to test your boundaries. And

1:18:44

and I mean, that that applies to not

1:18:46

even people with just disability of those anybody,

1:18:48

you know, if

1:18:50

if you have the ability to do something, see how far you can go with it. And if you fail, if it goes

1:18:52

too far, if you

1:18:55

get yourself in trouble, take

1:18:59

a serious look at it, assess it,

1:19:01

and then make a create

1:19:04

a new approach to it. Like,

1:19:06

I mean, when I'm in the field, it isn't, like, a lot of people always worried about accessibility and stuff my safety.

1:19:12

And, like, I've fallen out. I've fallen

1:19:14

out of my chair, looking for something I get out of my chair to catch stuff sometimes.

1:19:16

You know, it isn't Alie something

1:19:18

that is, like, literally completely to

1:19:22

me. There there's a person that is,

1:19:24

you know, not completely dependent

1:19:26

upon the share. I can move

1:19:28

around chair just makes it a lot easier.

1:19:30

Don't worry about my safety or my well-being, be your friend if I need help. Mhmm. I'm

1:19:33

gonna get myself in a trouble

1:19:35

because I want to. You

1:19:38

know, be the friend that

1:19:40

is actually supportive of that

1:19:41

process. Don't be a friend who's trying to

1:19:44

impose limits on you. That's great. Oh,

1:19:46

last question is always ask. What is one thing about

1:19:48

your photography that is

1:19:50

the most annoying or

1:19:53

a thing that you

1:19:55

dislike the most you mentioned crumbs

1:19:57

on spider hairs. But is there is there

1:20:00

anything that

1:20:03

anything that frustrates you either from, like,

1:20:05

a a micro or a

1:20:07

macro perspective?

1:20:11

Not really. The thing I

1:20:14

guess with photography with me

1:20:16

is that it's it's

1:20:18

my escape from

1:20:19

everything, you

1:20:19

know, with This

1:20:22

is what I do when things like the murder of George Floyd

1:20:24

and everything else

1:20:27

become too

1:20:28

much. When

1:20:30

I needed to just kinda set that

1:20:32

down

1:20:33

and take

1:20:34

a break and be a

1:20:39

person that does a

1:20:40

thing. And so

1:20:41

I grab my camera and I go

1:20:43

out and some usually as

1:20:45

much as I can into some

1:20:48

solitary place. And I try to

1:20:50

create something that is worth appreciating.

1:20:55

There there really isn't a whole lot about

1:20:56

that process that, you know, I

1:20:58

find too cumbersome. I mean, maybe

1:21:03

maybe it's just

1:21:03

the actual act of carrying it around. I think

1:21:05

more than anything because, you

1:21:07

know,

1:21:07

once you

1:21:08

look to, like,

1:21:09

Microsoft dot com, if you, like, you

1:21:11

have your camera And if you shoot, like, a

1:21:13

DSLR, it's a larger camera, and you have your speed light, and depending on the size of your light

1:21:16

diffusion system,

1:21:19

you know, that also takes up space. And so it can little bit clunky

1:21:21

and difficult to carry around

1:21:23

a little bit. But that's

1:21:25

really it. No part of

1:21:27

the process is too much.

1:21:29

Other than maybe, you know, like, the occasional tiger beetle that doesn't wanna sit still and just likes

1:21:31

to fly away five feet at

1:21:34

at a time. Just to

1:21:37

let you know that he's faster

1:21:39

than you and that you can't catch me if he doesn't want you to. But

1:21:44

but I mean, even then, you know, that still has

1:21:46

a value because even if I don't get a photo, I'm still, you

1:21:48

know, that still lived experience. I still got to see

1:21:50

it even if I don't get to with

1:21:54

anybody

1:21:54

else. I still got to observe its behavior. I

1:21:56

get to

1:21:57

ponder of, you know, why is it

1:21:59

flying only a few feet away

1:22:01

and insisting on staying in

1:22:03

in this area? And the reason that it is is

1:22:05

because there's a smorgasbord of other smaller insects that it is spraying upon at that moment.

1:22:07

He's like,

1:22:10

I am not leaving this

1:22:11

buffet. I will escape from you, but

1:22:12

I'm gonna continue to eat. Also, while

1:22:14

on the topic of

1:22:15

flying insects, what

1:22:18

gives him butterflies about

1:22:20

wildlife photography. What does he love the

1:22:23

most? I don't know if anything really gives him butterflies, but, I mean, just the the the possibility of

1:22:25

the next image.

1:22:27

It's, you know, even

1:22:31

when you've done

1:22:31

something in, like, you're finished with

1:22:33

it and you

1:22:34

can appreciate it,

1:22:35

there's there's always

1:22:38

room to get

1:22:39

better or even, like, it even

1:22:42

pretends that there's this notion about photography that

1:22:44

there's only so high you can

1:22:46

go. You can only get so good.

1:22:50

Let's just say that there was a actual a

1:22:52

cap on that.

1:22:53

Even

1:22:53

if there

1:22:54

was a cap on that, with

1:22:57

wildlife

1:22:57

photography, Even with that cap in place,

1:22:59

that imaginary cap in place, there there's a limited, a finite

1:23:01

number of situations that you're going to find yourself in, in

1:23:03

your entire life. Even

1:23:07

if you're doing wildlife photography every day for your entire

1:23:09

Alie, that you're gonna find yourself in to be

1:23:11

able to

1:23:14

actually create that shot. Mhmm. So, you know, just the

1:23:17

it's the possibility of

1:23:19

things that just

1:23:21

keeps you

1:23:22

going. You never know, like, I always like, I come up with different

1:23:24

ideas or thoughts of compositions when I'm just

1:23:26

kind of sitting in that house. I'm

1:23:29

like, okay, I wanna take a

1:23:31

picture, like, of this species. And

1:23:33

is kind of an environment for

1:23:35

this location. It it's just an endless number of possibilities and hoping

1:23:40

that by the time I'm done

1:23:42

and dead that whatever it is that I create will have

1:23:47

an impact that goes on

1:23:50

past my

1:23:50

Alie? Mhmm. Already

1:23:51

has. Already has. Really? Just the

1:23:53

beauty of your work inspires so

1:23:56

many people

1:23:58

to look at their world differently Alie the

1:24:00

passion behind the

1:24:02

way you approach the natural

1:24:05

world and also sociology Ologies

1:24:07

human experience and the black experience

1:24:10

and your advocacy for that

1:24:11

is, yeah, I I think

1:24:14

you have already changed so many lives.

1:24:16

Well,

1:24:16

we're not done yet. Blackface and STEM is

1:24:18

just getting started and -- Mhmm. --

1:24:20

who knows? What's going to come up with

1:24:22

that. I I'm I'm looking forward to it because this

1:24:24

is something that I won't get up until recently that I kinda dreamed

1:24:26

about. I

1:24:27

didn't even know if it would come

1:24:31

and be something that would come to fruition within my

1:24:33

life

1:24:33

time. So I

1:24:35

I'm already deflated at what we

1:24:37

were able to do with Black

1:24:40

Brothers Week Even

1:24:41

I I don't expect it to be

1:24:42

the case, but even if we were unable to

1:24:44

achieve anything else, I

1:24:46

would be happy that exists.

1:24:50

I am happy Alie

1:24:52

I exist. That that was an experience that

1:24:54

I will never forget even if there

1:24:56

is even if there was nothing

1:24:59

else that was similar to it in the

1:25:00

future. Oh, yeah. No. You guys are just gonna

1:25:02

start it. Are you kidding? This looks like

1:25:04

watching an empire being built.

1:25:06

It's beautiful. It's really great. Yeah.

1:25:09

So I'm well, I'm just here

1:25:11

I'm here on the sidelines cheering you on. Such

1:25:16

a huge fan, such like a

1:25:18

like a very authentically huge fan of your work. It's just gorgeous. I'm such a huge fan

1:25:23

of it. And I'm so glad that

1:25:25

you took some time out to talk to me about it. Well, this is amazing. I can't wait to put this

1:25:27

up. This is just it's such an honor

1:25:30

to talk to you. Thank you

1:25:32

for for letting

1:25:34

me be your fan. If I'm ever

1:25:36

in

1:25:36

Oklahoma, I hope maybe we can go

1:25:39

out perfect or inverting. That's I

1:25:41

mean, I've got the extra

1:25:43

space here. adventure the opportunity

1:25:45

shows us all.

1:25:48

I'm there.

1:25:50

Well, thank you so so much for doing this. So

1:25:53

ask smart, talented people,

1:25:55

earnest and most importantly, listen to

1:25:57

what they have to say. And follow them on

1:25:59

Instagram. And reels on wheels for

1:26:02

some absolutely gorgeous Alie changing

1:26:04

macro photos of some of

1:26:06

the world's most overlooked beauties. So

1:26:09

thank you, Joseph, for letting us look through your lens. Also, if

1:26:11

you are working from home and maybe spending less money at

1:26:13

coffee shops, consider becoming a

1:26:15

patron of Joseph. If

1:26:18

even a sliver of you tossed him

1:26:20

a few bucks a month for all the

1:26:22

free photos that he gives the world, you would

1:26:24

afford him more time in the field doing

1:26:26

what he loves the most, and making me your dad so

1:26:29

happy. And his brand brand brand

1:26:31

new Patreon page is linked in

1:26:33

the show notes. It's patreon dot

1:26:35

com slash j D Monroe.

1:26:38

He set it up. Today, y'all I was his first patron shout

1:26:40

out to his wonderful partner

1:26:42

Haley for helping with that. Alie

1:26:46

can also buy his prints, you can get

1:26:48

more info, that is all on his website at parahpetological dot

1:26:50

com. There is a link right in the show notes

1:26:54

definitely go visit that. He's on Twitter

1:26:56

at Twitter dot com slash JD Monroe two

1:26:58

ten. That will be in the show

1:27:01

notes. And again, his website has

1:27:03

prints and twenty twenty three calendars that are gonna sell

1:27:05

out soon. So get one. He makes

1:27:07

a bug calendar. Bird

1:27:10

calendar jumping spider calendar, a

1:27:13

herb calendar, landscape calendars,

1:27:15

all of Joseph's work,

1:27:17

really good gift to

1:27:19

yourself. You deserve that. We are at Ologies

1:27:22

on Twitter