0:00

moderates who you are this

0:02

is a short classroom friendly

0:04

version of a classic allergies episode it's perfect

0:06

for a quick lesson or one where there

0:08

are potentially smaller traits presence

0:11

what a week for this in case you missed

0:13

it nasa just released images from the james

0:16

webb space telescope this is the largest

0:18

optical telescope in space

0:20

at launched in late twenty twenty one in a cruise

0:23

into it's orbit about a million miles away in january

0:26

we saw the first images come out this week

0:28

july twenty twenty two and it

0:30

was a big deal the bigger

0:32

deal than any of our brains can comprehend

0:34

because it produced the deepest and sharpest

0:37

infrared image of the universe ever

0:39

to date and nasa says thousands

0:42

of galaxies including the scientist objects

0:44

ever observed in the infrared has

0:46

appeared in web few for the first time

0:49

in this slice of the vast universe

0:52

is approximately the size of a grain of sand

0:54

held at arm's length some

0:56

an underground it is it

0:59

tiny slice and in that tiny

1:01

slice there are thousands of

1:03

a little dots in the photo each

1:05

one

1:06

the get a clean

1:07

in each galaxy potentially

1:10

hundreds of billions maybe

1:12

trillions of stars there

1:15

is a lot out there and how exciting

1:17

to be on earth as it's discovered

1:19

so enjoy this small it is episode

1:22

about what might be the

1:25

way that guy in your video editing

1:27

class who choose so

1:29

much com you're actually worried

1:32

about him how he ward back with another

1:34

episode of allergies so this

1:36

episode i'm just communities

1:38

that have to scan and in the way it's

1:40

out in this world okay i said a side

1:43

of this world okay astrobiology let's get

1:45

to it once called xo biology

1:47

but let's consult the greek showy

1:50

so astro comes from the word for star

1:52

and biology has its roots in the verb

1:55

to live so what is out there

1:58

living on those ding dang stars what's

2:00

on the planet that's the big question

2:03

is anything a live out their what

2:05

are the odds is a big is

2:07

it's small is it cool isn't us

2:09

so to get some answers will consult

2:12

a professional so over the course

2:14

of eleven months and twenty

2:16

seven gentle spring

2:19

emails for me this our just

2:21

kindly of lies and the resulting

2:23

interview is i was about literally about

2:25

to say stellar i'm not a current i swear

2:28

that was an accident but it wasn't stellar interview

2:30

she's such a great dude so he has been

2:33

a researcher at the seti institute

2:35

the search for extraterrestrial and

2:37

how it in that was founded by carl sagan

2:40

and frank drake he's a national

2:42

geographic explorer who had

2:44

stretched the arctic and down to the depths

2:46

of the see you may have seen him in chains

2:48

cam the and aliens of the deep and

2:51

is currently be deputy chief scientist

2:53

for solar system exploration at nasa's

2:56

jet propulsion laboratory in pasadena california

2:58

and side note the opinions he expresses

3:00

aaron or his own and not those

3:03

of gpl or nasa when you're

3:05

in charge of looking for space alien three assets

3:07

he that

3:07

out some disclaimers

3:09

that by last week after work and

3:11

we settled in for an evening talk

3:14

about icy moons se

3:16

ne extraterrestrials subsurface

3:19

oceans various voyages

3:21

made by nasa spacecraft and

3:23

essentially what is lurking in

3:25

the great darkness of the universe

3:28

so make some space in your brain

3:30

for the brilliance and wonderful astrobiologists

3:34

doctor kevin

3:35

peter pan

3:54

really

3:56

that's what i thought but just in case it was hand

3:58

i never said it allow

3:59

the i thought i'd ask me of

4:02

now you are and astrobiologists

4:04

correct

4:05

what exactly does it mean

4:07

or if there is very because

4:09

many different ways answer but simply put

4:12

wow the is the study

4:14

of delivering universe and

4:17

spend less that's less that's a nutshell

4:20

the study and believing

4:21

the universe correct so this is excluding

4:24

rocks air well

4:27

beyond i'm looking back to similar

4:28

the rocks air lights

4:32

cari epicenter

4:35

of , my it

4:38

is so what's important about it being the

4:40

study of the living universes and oftentimes living people

4:42

think about astrobiology their save l

4:44

box in this is the social life beyond earth

4:48

the nurse

4:50

correct that's certainly part of astrobiology

4:52

but was also very central to astrobiology

4:55

is in the study of the origin

4:57

evolution and future of life on earth

5:00

where did we come from where we going how

5:03

, lice originate and

5:05

so when you think about

5:07

the living universe of course right

5:10

now all we know

5:12

of his life on earth we

5:14

have yet to find even a little the

5:17

backyard life beyond earth it's

5:19

based on what we know from

5:23

life on earth and based on

5:25

what we know about the other major sciences

5:28

physics chemistry geology we

5:30

, make a prediction that if the conditions are

5:32

right life should

5:35

totally arise beyond earth

5:37

for me what that means is ah

5:39

focus on

5:42

world in our solar system that

5:44

could harbor life as

5:48

mouth saroyan over here for a

5:51

female that

5:52

i focus

5:55

most of my time off from a research standpoint

5:58

research standpoint and points on keepers europa

6:01

and to a slightly lesser extent

6:03

saturn's moon enceladus

6:05

why are we looking at moon

6:07

that much

6:08

rather than the planet's yeah

6:10

so this has been one of the big game changers

6:13

and astrobiology what

6:15

i like to call sort of a new goldilocks who

6:18

, don't

6:22

have to finish and the early days of astronomy

6:24

planetary science and it's love

6:27

basketball's it's back in the sixties

6:29

seventies and eighties out

6:31

when planetary

6:34

scientists astronomers echo biologists

6:36

thought about what it takes

6:38

for world to be habitable that

6:41

framework was largely based

6:43

on

6:45

our

6:46

the earth biases

6:49

wherever we working fine liquid water on earth we

6:51

generally find life therefore you need liquid water

6:53

for life and , order for a planet

6:55

to harbor liquid water water

6:58

use don't have liquid water surface

7:00

in contact with a nice again this year

7:03

and of for a planet to

7:05

be able to sustain those kind of conditions

7:08

yeah to be just the right distance from your parents

7:11

star so you're not

7:13

too hot or not you called and it was neither

7:15

to hawks lot too cold it was

7:17

just right what we've

7:19

learned in the past few decades and this is

7:21

largely informed by

7:23

the voyager spacecraft and then the galileo

7:25

spacecraft and then the cassini spacecraft

7:27

that went into the other sources

7:29

the news moons of the outer solar

7:31

system are

7:34

presenting us with a new goldilocks

7:36

scenario it's a goldilocks scenario

7:38

where the energy to maintain

7:41

and sustain liquid water i'm

7:44

not from the energy of your parent star but

7:47

rather from the energy of hi

7:50

, the talking poll that these morons experience

7:53

experience a go around their

7:55

nerve gas giants are there i science and

7:58

so the the

8:00

jovian system the the moons

8:02

of jupiter are great example this therefore

8:06

large moons iou propaganda meaningless

8:09

i oh does not have an ocean i

8:11

oh doesn't really have any water

8:13

i'll orbit stupid or and

8:16

fire is todd to such a great

8:18

degree that it is

8:21

the most volcanically active on in our solar system

8:23

or more volcanically active

8:25

and the or oh my god you know there are rotting

8:27

on i all right now ah that is

8:29

just a beautiful beautiful gem of a world

8:32

and it really does gonna look like a jumpstart maneuver

8:34

eclipses fiction

8:35

if a lot of party happening so far

8:37

away

8:37

it is it is a

8:39

break out the popcorn and just watched

8:43

know so a so

8:46

a in this new goldilocks paradigm

8:49

i can like venus it got too

8:51

much tidal energy it's to closer it's

8:53

do the minutes is that it was due

8:55

to bow warm iowa

8:58

has got too much title activity let's go to the further

9:00

and further down at large moons calista now

9:02

calista we think

9:04

they don't have an ocean trapped beneath a very

9:06

thick ice shelf but clinton was very

9:08

little tidal energy to spacing going on in

9:11

it so in that scenario calista

9:13

kind of like mars it's it's maybe doesn't have

9:15

quite enough energy to and

9:17

to really make it a and ocean

9:19

that we could explore and and think could sustain

9:22

lester

9:23

but in the middle we got europa and ganymede

9:25

and europa in particular

9:27

we think occupies this new the

9:30

goldilocks sweet spot where it's got

9:33

the

9:34

just the right amount of tidal

9:36

energy dissipation source to sustain

9:39

a global salty liquid water

9:41

ocean that , one

9:43

hundred kilometers sixty miles in depth

9:46

oh my god yeah that's the right response

9:49

deeper our oceans so it's about ten times

9:51

as deep as our oh so this must

9:53

be octopods am i sat

9:55

is so in the mariana trench for about seven miles

9:57

deep olympia amateurs down euro zone

9:59

and time

10:01

there's plenty of water

10:02

on jupiter's moon europa both

10:04

an ice and in liquid form

10:07

and is deep now could

10:09

extraterrestrials be lurking

10:11

and those deep dark wires

10:13

europa small with is above size of our

10:15

moon this road or europe is about

10:18

one seventh of the risk of ah

10:21

the when you do math the pressure within

10:24

europe as ocean

10:25

that's comparable to the it's a bit more but

10:27

it's comparable to the pressure found within

10:30

the deepest trenches of our oh so ah

10:32

and so when we think about all you have could

10:34

lie survives on within europe

10:36

as ocean we can actually

10:38

do the experiment m look at places on

10:41

planet earth where the conditions are comparable

10:44

and say oh wow my

10:46

found a way in that environment that the has

10:49

parameters similar to europe

10:51

as ocean or and saw this as oceans on

10:53

and so forth

10:54

life

10:55

find a way as you on so eloquently

10:58

put it and we can make the sort of biological

11:00

plausibility connection

11:01

and now you roka is that we're we're

11:03

really looking in terms of searching

11:07

for something alive is that

11:09

really were all eyes are kind of on europa

11:12

well there are i'm of

11:14

to highlight three

11:16

crime ocean world

11:17

analysts are , it's

11:20

all sometimes ah

11:24

he time ago when we start about

11:26

time briefly first we can come back at it's

11:29

, in is just an amazing world with

11:31

his atmosphere and liquid methane effing lakes

11:33

carving out it's icy surface and as liquid

11:36

water ocean bunnies it's ice

11:39

crust

11:41

and from the standpoint of astrobiology

11:44

haydn is my favorite place to go

11:46

and look for weird like why

11:49

small i mean by weird life is life

11:52

unlike life as we know it luxury

11:56

not is based on liquid

11:58

water as the solvents the

12:00

substance in which the chemical reactions of

12:02

life take place and

12:04

those chemical reactions in the building blocks or of course

12:06

based on carbon we are we are and

12:09

water based life form

12:11

on titan

12:13

life would potentially also be carbon

12:15

based but ,

12:18

solvent might be

12:20

liquid methane and ethane in those lakes that

12:22

we see on titan oh my god could

12:24

lice could the business of life

12:26

get done could lie for originate is

12:28

there a weird life form that could arise in those

12:31

lakes and seas i don't know

12:33

but i'd sure love to get there and get and

12:35

and

12:37

the time could of course within of liquid

12:39

water awesome been he says is i see show

12:42

the arbor water and

12:44

carbon based life similar to what

12:47

my we know and love your honor snow

12:49

flammable is an

12:53

, it as a disused and you start

12:55

taking on fire short answer is now

12:57

because do in

12:59

order like something a fire would in it knocks

13:02

it in the accounting or any and so

13:04

ah and so at times atmosphere

13:07

has

13:08

basically no oxygen another

13:10

and and so that actually is

13:12

one of the limiting factors for me when when

13:14

i think about the the feasibility of life

13:17

on on titan

13:18

okay so back to general habitability

13:20

kevin says liquid water

13:22

is one of the key sounds so what

13:24

else is on our intergalactic

13:26

shopping list the other keystones

13:28

for life or that you need a building blocks the

13:31

stuff that like is made all

13:33

the the bricks and mortar for

13:35

us less carbon hydrogen oxygen

13:37

nitrogen a smattering of some

13:40

fifty four elements from the periodic table

13:43

then the third i can a lesser appreciated

13:45

keystone his life

13:48

he needs energy it needs a power

13:50

source it needs something that can sustain

13:53

ah the the growth and reproduction

13:56

and the and the the maintenance of

13:58

of less sceptical

13:59

we we we call that a the read

14:02

australian said that life

14:04

harnesses you bring together or reduction

14:07

a compound that likes to give up electrons

14:09

with an accident that

14:12

likes to accept electrons

14:14

ross we read the

14:17

homo sapiens that

14:19

redux reaction is isn't

14:22

carbohydrates easy some food

14:25

and breathe and oxygen and then

14:28

we do a slow burn in are

14:31

they'll make them and biology in

14:33

us and where where where glorified

14:35

campfire med ,

14:37

we're doing a slow burn with our redux

14:39

demonstrate an insider bodies

14:43

the next time you're eating sicily the oh to holler

14:45

i'm redux say microbes however

14:47

can vary quite a bit and have all

14:49

kinds of metabolic pathways so

14:52

by studying how they do it at the bottom of

14:54

trenches and in the arctic an extra volcanoes

14:57

we can try to determine how those little bit

14:59

as on other planets and moons might

15:01

go about their business okay are you ready

15:03

for san pedro and questions sure okay

15:05

but before we get to listener questions from patriot

15:08

a quick word from our sponsors who

15:10

have allowed me to raise the pay him the folks

15:12

who helped me make ology is also let

15:14

me donate to a cause of the ology

15:16

choosing this week doctor kevin

15:19

peter hand chose to support the work

15:21

of traveling telescope in this is a cause started

15:23

by says marijuana and her husband chew

15:25

and colleagues to share astronomy

15:27

with school kids and the general public in kenya

15:30

so that is traveling telescope and

15:32

there will be a link in the show notes if you want to know

15:34

more about of now an additional denise in this week

15:36

with me to vermont's manchester rescue

15:39

squad in memory of peter hand

15:41

kevin father who passed away last summer and

15:44

the manchester rescue squad provides twenty

15:46

per hour three sixty five paramedic

15:48

level emergency care of the a paid staff

15:50

and volunteers the also do cpr

15:52

and for state classes so on behalf

15:55

of all the allen sites or heart goes

15:57

out the hands of now

15:59

the messages

15:59

the answers

16:03

right your questions okay

16:05

peter questions we got a

16:07

gazillion are we

16:10

were again okay it kind

16:12

of a lightning round i categorize

16:15

them as best they could okay so jazz

16:17

and wells vincent's matty worker

16:19

and mike marlowe all kind of mana

16:21

know as a firm believer

16:23

of other forms of life what's the most probable

16:26

planet for alien life to exist

16:28

on like what are the most likely places

16:30

you are able

16:32

to mars is fantastic mars

16:34

so a bomb a

16:36

wonderful place to look for

16:38

i wouldn't a past life and potentially

16:41

like that alive today was have to dig a lot

16:43

cheaper so i but mars

16:46

the robot and so on and

16:48

titans

16:49

then when it comes to the search for extent life

16:52

i , prioritize europa and

16:54

insult us for of extent life

16:56

similar to letters we not and

16:59

then if we go one layer deeper i

17:01

prioritize europa over

17:03

and saw this the couple of different

17:05

reasons europa

17:08

we have good reasons predicts

17:10

as had an ocean for the history

17:12

the solar system oh yeah so

17:15

it's an ocean that's been around for awhile and

17:18

dollars or still from question marks the reason

17:20

saturn has rings is

17:22

, some sort of collision

17:25

some sort of impact event happens

17:27

in the neighborhood of the moons of saturn

17:30

in the past

17:32

tens to hundreds of millions of years ago

17:34

okay so remember his sell it is one

17:36

of saturn's

17:37

having said that saturn

17:39

has had some drama

17:41

the so didn't tell the format is it's

17:43

ocean relatively young we

17:45

don't know

17:46

the people had questions about the oceans

17:49

trying to settle the debate oceania

17:51

recess or deep sea creatures aliens

17:53

i think they are and also are we looking

17:56

at a deep seated provide any clue that what could exist

17:58

on other planets yard

17:59

the questions ,

18:02

answered the first one is is alien

18:04

as they are and i've got those see some of my

18:06

of and as astonishing

18:09

and beautiful and and bazaars they are

18:12

they are very well connected

18:14

into archery of licenses and they are based

18:16

on dna and are and on dna a

18:18

t v paradigm or with proteins

18:21

et cetera so yeah and they are not

18:23

some different from

18:25

like as we not so are

18:27

we looking in our own oceans to

18:30

see whether or not

18:33

search for life elsewhere can be informed by

18:35

life that works in these these deep ocean environments

18:38

a dancer's absolutely and something that

18:40

i'm i'm very passionate about and has been

18:43

fortunate to be able to take part in some

18:45

of that exploration science

18:46

what about new your favorite thing

18:49

about us they are your job the best

18:52

i know i've got a lot agree college

18:54

and we love brainstorming about forcing

18:57

it on cinco the boss about boss

18:59

about floorplan nurse and understand life

19:01

on earth and how to apply

19:03

that to world and wonders

19:06

beyond earth so that kind of

19:08

the intellectual

19:11

hopping the popcorn is is was on

19:13

if someone wanted to be

19:14

biologists oh do tell them where did you start

19:17

your struggles in the field of astrobiology

19:20

today there's biologists tennis

19:22

geologist still chemists oceanographers

19:27

my own background physics and

19:29

astronomy and astronomy

19:31

the geological environmental sciences i

19:33

also get a masters in robotics

19:36

it takes all kinds to get

19:38

this sort of the

19:42

when we use a few buzzwords interdisciplinary

19:45

multi disciplinary transdisciplinary

19:47

kind of research done and so

19:49

i tell students and and folks interested is

19:52

ah with in

19:54

the framework of sciences that seat into

19:56

as from housing

19:58

follow your passion

20:00

biology and geology physics

20:02

astronomy etc etc and

20:05

chemistry

20:06

and

20:08

enjoy that fundamental research

20:11

then extend and bridget

20:13

into astrobiology site says

20:16

the sound of seven

20:17

the people changing their majors right now thank

20:19

you for studying aliens

20:20

yeah thanks for having meteor

20:22

to talk about aliens

20:26

ask interesting people intergalactic

20:29

questions because you'd never know

20:31

what you might learn there is a lot

20:34

out there to understand

20:37

and smart people getting

20:39

ask questions you can check out doctor

20:41

kevin hands book alien oceans

20:44

the search for life in the depths

20:46

of space he is amazing

20:48

he is at alien oceans on twitter i'm

20:50

at alley word with one l always

20:52

uses at all aziz on

20:55

twitter instagram to and we

20:57

like to keep these episodes short said

20:59

a full list of credits is in the

21:01

show notes special thanks of course

21:03

to seek read vegas thomas and mercedes

21:05

maitland of minds and media insert

21:07

sleeper of my jam media for helping at an all these together

21:10

if you stick around the very very end of the episode

21:13

i give you a little bit life

21:15

advice on this week this

21:17

is an life advice touched me by my sister celestial

21:20

as a reporter and is someone is telling

21:22

you

21:22

long story

21:24

then you kind of like want them to cut the

21:26

chase you can politely

21:28

prompt them the do that

21:31

i think ah how how did it

21:33

end and then it's

21:35

how you kinda get to the conclusion

21:37

so that's sometimes helpful

21:40

i hope that's helpful my sister told me that a million

21:42

years ago and he's enough time

21:44

okay? all right until next

21:46

time smolich heights

21:48

the