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2:05

Making chakrabarti and this is the jackpot

2:08

Were on point new them as Jack

2:10

Media helps us to next history. Literature

2:13

and politics in a way that

2:15

brings his unique clarity to the

2:17

world we live in now. Hello

2:19

there Jack an Omega. So we

2:21

are at Episode twenty eight this week. What's

2:23

your headline? How. To

2:26

steal a presidential election? Noom. Okay, so this

2:28

is a something has been written about quite

2:30

thoroughly. We've talked about it a lot on

2:32

the so so. What do you have that

2:34

new for us? Just. Well

2:37

I want to talk about

2:39

what's happening, what people can

2:41

expect might happen at the

2:43

polling stations and. Inside.

2:46

The polling stations and then

2:48

shift. The focus to. Voting.

2:51

Certification Boards What might happen

2:53

there? So to begin with.

2:57

Even. Before we get to the

2:59

polls right? As we speak,

3:02

there are voter challenges going

3:04

on all over the country.

3:07

Voters are being challenge does

3:09

Thousand voters were were challenge

3:11

by one person in Michigan

3:14

town Or there's a group

3:16

called Pig Pen Project in

3:18

Nevada that is targeting groups

3:21

of voters and saying these

3:23

people aren't legitimate voters. Check

3:26

into it's there's something call

3:28

souls to polls in Michigan

3:30

which. Is targeting or groups

3:33

of voters challenging their right

3:35

to vote and all this

3:37

leads to litigation and investigation

3:40

and a climate of intimidation

3:42

and sere. So that's even

3:44

before we get to election

3:47

day. What to expect on

3:49

Election Day if I may

3:51

is an anecdote before Election

3:53

Day. Twenty Twenty Two appeared

3:56

New Hampshire. A. Local

3:58

I'm Proud Boys Group announced that

4:00

it was going to send people

4:02

to the polls. And

4:05

that they would be watching what

4:07

happened. It was it in our

4:09

town, but it was near enough

4:11

that my wife and I really

4:14

seriously debated will do. We really

4:16

wanna expose ourselves to that. The

4:18

point is, even committed voters can

4:20

pause the moment at the thought

4:23

of some are you know, three

4:25

hundred pound love a person you

4:27

around as you're going to vote

4:29

A spokeswoman for the Trump campaign

4:32

recently said we're going to send

4:34

quote soldiers. To the polls. In

4:37

Michigan last year, Trump urged

4:39

his supporters to quote guard

4:41

the polls In. Detroit.

4:44

As ladder. And. Philadelphia,

4:47

Then. Of course, those are heavily

4:49

on democratic. Heavily

4:51

minority the city's.

4:54

Ah, Derrick Johnson present the An

4:56

A C B call that comment

4:58

dangerous and reminiscent of the kind

5:00

of threats the Ku Klux Klan

5:02

used to make against voters are

5:04

in the South as.trump said in

5:07

in in New Hampshire he said

5:09

you you go it out there

5:11

and watch those voters. you don't

5:13

have the votes yourself We got

5:15

plenty of votes We want you

5:17

to keep your up your eyes

5:20

on these people. It takes no

5:22

A strenuous efforts of the imagination.

5:24

To imagine you know or a

5:26

drop of people at the polls

5:28

standing outside say why you voting.

5:31

Why? Are you voting who? You and you

5:33

know We said well that can't happen.

5:35

It used to happen all the time.

5:37

William Rehnquist. Supreme

5:41

Court. He made his beans

5:43

in Arizona challenging minority voters

5:45

as they walked. In

5:47

Devote so we can expect. Trouble.

5:50

Outside the polls we we

5:52

can expect inside the polls

5:55

that poll workers will create

5:57

their own kind of trouble.

6:00

The Trump Campaign repubs are

6:03

and see has. A

6:05

training for people to be

6:07

poll workers in Detroit Philadelphia

6:10

that ladder essentially to be

6:12

within the polling area. And.

6:15

To challenge voters there and

6:17

they are wired through. you

6:19

know they got their cell

6:21

phones to lawyers who could

6:23

give them legal pullout. Ver.

6:26

To challenge voters so people were

6:28

gonna have a gauntlet they're going

6:30

into the polls is almost certainly

6:32

to be some something going on

6:34

inside the polling station. You're not

6:36

safe to vote? Yes, because Trump

6:39

people have are going to be

6:41

poll ah of workers and there

6:43

was a a recording of of

6:45

a deal pre operative. this is

6:47

before the last election. Twenty Twenty

6:49

Two Say you know, being a

6:52

poll worker, you just have so

6:54

many more rights to stop someone.

6:56

Voted then all of this will be

6:58

known ahead of time and and will

7:01

serve one to intimidate people from voting.

7:03

and once they're in their to make

7:05

it for some of them to make

7:07

it harder to vote. we don't have

7:09

to scratching our heads to imagine voters

7:12

who will be challenged. They would be

7:14

overwhelmingly African American because the chances that

7:16

they are democrats a very high. So

7:19

that takes care of the scenario.

7:22

Outside the polling station. Inside

7:24

the polling station. then there's

7:26

another. Place. Where trouble

7:28

can arise and that is

7:30

at the county level as

7:33

the meetings of voting certification

7:35

boards And this has a

7:37

historical precedent. For

7:39

a few weeks. After

7:41

the Presidential election that year, we

7:44

still did not know who had

7:46

one Florida man who had therefore

7:48

won the presidency. Over ten thousand

7:50

ballots remains. To be countered by the

7:52

Miami Dade Elections Morse When Republican operatives

7:54

who the Bush Campaign had flown in

7:56

from around the country heard that counts

7:59

in Miami it was going to go

8:01

forwards account of those. Ten thousand

8:03

plus remaining malice. So Zero

8:05

P operatives decided they would

8:07

physically shutdown That counts. So.

8:09

That was Rachel Maddow, right?

8:12

Jack on her Msnbc. So

8:14

in two thousand and ten.

8:16

But you talking about what happened in the year two thousand and

8:19

Twenty ten? The biggest thing I. Can remember his

8:21

Obama care right for had no ah

8:23

yes he was talking about the same

8:25

as Brooks brother's riot as it was

8:28

called and ah when and what happened

8:30

was republican operatives i said none of

8:32

them were from Dade county showed up

8:34

outside the area where they were counting

8:37

the ballots and ready to certify them

8:39

and made so much of a raucous

8:41

that the that the ballot is as

8:43

accounting and the certification was stopped in

8:46

it's tracks and I it it later

8:48

came out that almost everybody. There

8:50

there were a big crowd

8:52

of them. had some connection

8:55

to staff of republicans in

8:57

Congress. So the point is

8:59

we can expect that to

9:02

happen again at Rolling Stone

9:04

has done some really important

9:06

of reporting on sistine instances

9:08

in eight states. Since Two

9:11

Twenty Twenty were republican officials

9:13

have refused certify elections are

9:15

they have this has happened

9:17

in and look at the.

9:20

States: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan

9:22

or Pennsylvania, North Carolina,

9:24

New Mexico Odds and

9:26

their reason for not

9:28

certifying elections was you

9:30

know citing a conspiracy

9:32

theories about the voting

9:34

machines or other you

9:36

know or Trump or

9:38

ten odds about of

9:40

voting off and part

9:42

of the strategy is

9:44

to create chaos and

9:46

to create are you

9:48

know a false basis.

9:50

For trying to find a

9:52

way to challenge the outcome

9:55

of cause elections Us of

9:57

people what is? Worry, what?

10:00

Going to happen as these boards me

10:02

that the point is. It's

10:04

happened fifteen times since. Twenty.

10:07

Twenty as recently as November.

10:09

Twenty Twenty Three in Colorado.

10:11

And it's or it.those are

10:14

rehearsals for what we can

10:16

expect. Of the probably

10:18

at the county level. Of.

10:20

In In Twenty Twenty Four

10:23

so people are We are

10:25

warning looking back at the

10:28

Brooks Brothers Riot saying we

10:30

can anticipate something like this

10:33

happening at Scattered Vote certification

10:35

setters. Especially. In

10:37

these in these swing states. The

10:40

Brennan Center we were warns about

10:42

it and and and the other

10:44

years. The people that are

10:46

got on these boards are No. And

10:49

they will have threats against

10:51

their lives almost certainly. We've

10:53

had tests of it says

10:55

twenty twenty It's happened fifteen

10:57

times. It will happen for

11:00

sure. Or with election deny

11:02

is in on. These boards are in

11:04

twenty twenty four. You

11:06

know, Jack, you're getting at something. ah,

11:08

which I think is perhaps. The

11:11

the the point the make all

11:13

of this very chillingly realistic, right?

11:15

And that is that Donald Trump

11:17

has been very. Plainly

11:19

and vocally advocated. For our

11:21

political. Violence in the past, right?

11:23

And we We even have this

11:25

example here that the you pointed

11:27

to his search Trump at a

11:30

campaign rally in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

11:32

This was back in the Twenty

11:34

Sixteen election in February of Twenty

11:36

Sixteen. Security guys, we

11:38

have wonderful security. Guess is said, Mr.

11:40

Trump there may be somebody with tomatoes

11:42

in the audience. So

11:45

have you see somebody getting ready

11:47

to throw tomatoes? Not the crap

11:49

out of a virgin? Serious. Guy.

11:52

Says Knocks out. I promise

11:54

you I will pay for

11:56

the legal fees. I promise

11:58

I promise. So. He's. That it.

12:00

and ah, overtly before. That

12:02

of course we had generous six after

12:05

that ah several years later is is

12:07

is that the the thing that you

12:09

think jack makes all of these what

12:11

would otherwise be perhaps. Rightfully.

12:14

Criticized as fantastical concerns actually

12:16

makes them real concerns. It

12:19

makes them overwhelmingly Real real.

12:21

At Whistle Whistle homes the

12:23

phrase real and present danger

12:26

of Trumps distinction in the

12:28

whole of American political history

12:30

is the his movement Us

12:33

depends on and is energized

12:35

by ah, the threat of

12:37

political violence and in that

12:40

ah clip from Iowa and

12:42

in two thousand sixty before

12:44

the first votes of that

12:47

primary even been cowed. It's

12:49

Trump. was laying down what

12:52

remains. His permission

12:54

slip for violence. He

12:57

sang to those people guy hasn't

12:59

kick the crap ah somebody and

13:01

I'll pay the legal bills impunity.

13:03

Don't worry, I'll put up a

13:05

the legal bills he saying the

13:07

same thing now to voters when

13:09

he talks about January Six, I'm

13:11

going pardon the people who tried

13:13

to overthrow the government on my

13:15

behalf. and Twenty Twenty And if

13:17

by implication I can all pardon

13:19

you. if you have wireless at

13:21

a polling place, if you are

13:24

violent that a vote counting setter,

13:26

if you. Create trouble. Don't worry

13:28

as a fix is in I'll

13:30

pay you legal bills or once

13:32

elected all pardon you but that

13:34

that sending a message. Okay,

13:37

so here's what. I want to

13:39

know from Jackpot listeners. For.

13:42

This week. And that's basically the scenario.

13:44

The Jack. Is laid out and

13:46

quite frankly the other political scientists

13:48

have have also laid out. Regarding

13:51

how ah an election, a

13:54

presidential election can be stolen

13:56

with the cooperation of people

13:59

sitting in. Key positions in

14:01

this country and that the federal and state

14:03

level Or do you think it's realistic? Do.

14:06

You think it could happen in the United

14:08

States. So let us know you know how

14:10

to do it right cause I'm sure you

14:12

already have the on point vox pop up

14:14

on your phone. Or. You're.

14:17

One of those few who doesn't and co to. The

14:19

Us to wherever you get your podcasts and

14:21

look for on point Vox Pop because that

14:23

is how we love to. Hear. From

14:26

our ever growing family of

14:28

jackpot listeners. And we want to

14:30

welcome many many more people in to

14:32

the family solution. For to hear your thoughts. On

14:34

case you think the a that

14:37

it is realistic to imagine other

14:39

presidential election can be stolen in

14:41

twenty twenty. Four. Okay

14:43

Jack, so the reason why why even more

14:46

people to come into our our circle of

14:48

Jack Potter's is that we're We're going to

14:50

come back here in the second to listen

14:52

to what they had to say about lack

14:54

last week's pod. But many people after they

14:56

listen to you, they come away with. This

14:59

feeling. I. Just by saying thank

15:01

you to Jack pharmacy me so like

15:04

I'm not completely losing my mind. So

15:06

either either people feel more sane when

15:08

they listen to Jack or I hate

15:11

to say it is possible. We're all

15:13

living in the Matrix together. We'll find

15:15

out for find out it just a

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code POD. Well,

16:48

Jack, we're back. And just as a

16:50

quick reminder, last week on the Jack

16:52

Pod, you talked about missing misery or

16:56

the real facts of life that

16:58

are not built into how inflation

17:00

is calculated in this country and

17:02

how without those facts

17:04

or those considerations, the inflation

17:07

numbers, even as they purportedly

17:09

are getting better in the eyes of federal-level

17:12

economists, are not necessarily

17:14

getting better in the lives of real people.

17:17

And we got a ton of messages about

17:19

this, Jack. So let's start with Brittany Braden

17:21

in Louisville, Kentucky. It seems like every

17:23

time I listen to something on inflation,

17:25

I am a little reminded of how

17:27

wonderful things are. And while it is

17:29

true that my husband and I have

17:32

a middle-class income and we

17:34

continue to make more and more every

17:36

year, it's also true that we can

17:39

afford less and less. And

17:41

I'm not talking about vacations or new

17:43

homes. I'm talking about groceries. We can

17:46

afford less groceries now than

17:48

we could a few years ago, despite

17:50

making more money. What

17:52

Brittany is talking about there, Jack, is clearly

17:54

a diminishment in the quality

17:56

of life, even regardless of

17:58

income. Got lots more

18:01

messages on this. Exact point.

18:03

So here's another one. This is Sarah

18:05

Him from Nacogdoches, Texas with a similar

18:07

story. She says she and her husband

18:09

are comfortable and they own their own

18:11

house and that are really low mortgage.

18:13

Rate right now, but they are

18:15

looking to relocate and cannot afford

18:17

a home with current mortgage rates.

18:20

And here's the thing. they also

18:22

can't afford. Quote. Unquote

18:24

extras like vacations.

18:26

I feel very

18:29

discouraged. For. That like

18:31

my life here will only be.

18:33

Working. And

18:36

just been in the same house and not

18:38

really been able to do. Any

18:40

of the extras. And

18:43

we work hard, we have degrees

18:45

and we just can't seem to

18:47

be able to get out of.

18:50

The. Current. Pay

18:53

bracket that were in and.

18:56

Quite honestly, if any. Medical.

18:59

Catastrophe happened or one of us

19:01

lost. Her job so we would.

19:04

We would become uncomfortable quite quickly.

19:06

And damn the I sell very.

19:09

Still very discouraged about my future and I'm

19:12

only in my mid thirties. So. That

19:14

Sarah in Texas and Jack is

19:16

so heartbreaking to hear people and

19:18

incident tell us their true situations.

19:21

Right now we're supposed to be

19:23

having the American dream of life,

19:25

liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

19:27

And that pursuit of happiness Parts

19:29

seemed speed dimming with each passing

19:31

year. For so many people. Us

19:35

and the phrase middle class with

19:37

Schuster to note in all kind

19:39

of was father knows best life

19:41

of Riley oh Security or is

19:43

it it it doesn't mean at

19:45

at all and end the fear

19:47

of falling. Can't. Be

19:49

underestimated. It haunts American politics

19:52

because people see how how

19:54

quickly it could happen that

19:56

medical emergency with Sarah talked

19:58

about can quickly. Drop.

20:00

You. Drop. You to the

20:03

bottom or near the bottom.

20:05

There's no. There's no a

20:07

security. There's nothing to to

20:09

hold on to stop the

20:12

fall that the welfare state

20:14

has to have seen to

20:16

the general welfare on and

20:18

of people. People know that

20:20

and that has all. Kinds

20:23

of bullet. The fear of falling has just.

20:26

A mere a bit. it it it's

20:28

role in Trump. he aneurysm can't be.

20:32

Denied or blink that either. And

20:34

you know Britain is points about

20:37

groceries I checked it's under biden.

20:39

their up twenty one percent, eggs

20:41

up thirty seven percent. and you

20:43

know if you leave out the

20:46

A the pandemic with. Sicily

20:49

put the last year of Trump put

20:51

a put on line through that. Real

20:54

median income with up

20:56

under Trump. And. It

20:58

has either fall and Auburn

21:00

slap under biden. A question

21:02

was recently asked by in

21:04

a Brookings pull the non

21:06

college educated voters which party

21:08

brings prosperity And you know

21:10

up until the Reagan Era

21:12

that was the Democratic Party

21:14

right that the party of

21:16

Working People. By sixty,

21:18

some odd. Percent the non

21:21

college educated voters say

21:23

the republican bring prosperity.

21:25

only a third say

21:27

the democrat. Okay

21:30

with that more Jack This is

21:32

Joe Seed Learn in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

21:34

I. Am a person who

21:37

is adverse to borrowing money

21:39

by credit. Or by

21:41

mortgage or any other of

21:43

ways of living beyond my

21:45

means. You're

21:47

show. Expressed how.

21:50

The. Price. Of borrowing money.

21:53

Is. Not being costs in the

21:55

you inflation. And

21:57

to me is. That

21:59

is. A symptom of a larger

22:01

problem in America of. Excessive.

22:05

Comfort. With borrowing and

22:07

living beyond to ones means.

22:09

Okay, Jack so it doesn't want to hear you on this,

22:11

but I just had. A quick response of my own

22:13

if you don't mind set of. And

22:16

that is edo. Philosophically, I

22:18

completely. Agree. With Joe.

22:20

I mean, I grew up in a household where

22:22

the. Daily Montreux. Was

22:24

spend less than you earn. So

22:27

again, philosophically I think

22:29

joe spot on. but

22:32

realistically. I mean look

22:34

you just talked about real income. The

22:36

to this is that people aren't and

22:38

earning. Enough money to be able to

22:40

afford things like homes and cars. Without.

22:44

Loans. So this is so

22:47

he. So it's like yeah you can

22:49

criticize people for have for taking to

22:51

taking wounds and living beyond their means

22:53

but at the same time I'm sorry

22:55

be in modern American life in many

22:57

many places in this country you actually

22:59

have to have a car in order

23:01

to function right? That's as a worker

23:03

as a family member to get around

23:05

in your your community. So I think

23:07

the disconnect between the the the realities

23:10

of how much money you need to

23:12

have to even does have like sort

23:14

of. I'm. Have minimal standard of

23:16

living versus how much people are earning.

23:18

Kind of renders Joe's philosophy they're a

23:20

little bit moot even though you know

23:23

my my heart's with him Jack and

23:25

that it's swinging that disconnected. Think of

23:27

something that must be done otherwise. does

23:30

more more people are going to get

23:32

sucked into this black hole of not

23:34

being able to afford a decent. Kind.

23:37

Of Life. Yes, And

23:39

he you know he. he talks about living

23:42

beyond ones means. Well, that's the American way.

23:45

Of his girl a credit and

23:47

borrowing the whole notion of a

23:49

hot hot who can afford to

23:51

buy a house with cash. I

23:53

mean that the his presupposing a

23:55

status or glad that he enjoys

23:57

it but that so few men.

24:00

Americans can pay cash for houses,

24:02

can pay cash for cars. Everything

24:05

has to be borrowed, and

24:10

shocking numbers of people use their credit

24:12

cards just even to eat to pay

24:14

for the groceries. You

24:16

can say, well, you should live within your means, but

24:19

there's a wonderful passage. I don't have

24:21

it here. I had it at one

24:23

time of Adam Smith where he says,

24:25

yes, in absolute terms, a laborer doesn't

24:28

need a linen shirt. He can work

24:30

in a different kind of shirt, but

24:32

any self-respecting laborer wants to

24:35

be seen in a linen

24:37

shirt because if he doesn't

24:39

have one on, people will

24:41

think he's a lastrel, that

24:44

he lives in the demi-moan,

24:46

that he's a criminal and can't

24:48

get his life together. That

24:51

sign is a

24:53

sign really of his character. He

24:56

needs that linen shirt as a

24:58

signifier. We all need the

25:00

linen shirt as signifiers, the car,

25:03

the house. Take those

25:05

things away and our

25:08

sense of our own importance is diminished because

25:11

our status is diminished. Yeah. To

25:15

support Joe a little bit here, again, philosophically, I'm with

25:17

him, maybe people don't need

25:19

a flat panel TV

25:22

in every single room of the house, right? Excessive

25:24

frivolity, totally get it. Don't

25:27

max out your credit card for that kind of thing, but

25:30

this word means, right, Jack? I just want

25:33

to say one more thing about it because,

25:35

again, you just said, in real terms, people's

25:39

incomes have gone down. Over

25:42

the past several decades, we've had

25:44

this long-term wage stagnation. In

25:46

real terms, people's

25:49

means have gone down even

25:51

though they're doing the same,

25:53

if not more work in

25:55

terms of productivity. That

25:57

gap is what people are forced to turn to.

26:00

Credit for and it is. It's not sustainable.

26:02

Do all agree with you on that, but

26:04

I don't think I'd necessarily blame people for

26:06

being I'm ah, you know, Totally.

26:09

Frivolous in their. Spending. But let's go to

26:11

Tom Brassard. He's in Charlottesville, Virginia and

26:13

he thinks actually, check that you left

26:15

out a really important factor. While.

26:17

Listening to your missing misery Jackpot. I

26:19

kept waiting for mention her What? I

26:21

believe busy elephant in the room on

26:23

this topic. And. That is corporate

26:26

pricing. In some cases, greed. Know

26:28

media outlets that relies on advertisers

26:30

and donors appears to be willing

26:32

to test his. Contributor:

26:34

To inflation. In. Also,

26:36

the widening income gap. Tom.

26:39

To correct the record we talk about. Shareholder

26:41

primacy a lot here on this,

26:43

so I guess at that. Are

26:45

overly complicated way of saying the shareholders get

26:47

to make money while the workers dell. but

26:50

Jack go ahead. While.

26:52

The I did leave that out

26:54

and our time is right and

26:56

you know I mean Elizabeth Warren,

26:58

Incest and and sure Brown in

27:00

Congress Senate The have both spoken

27:02

of how. The inflation

27:04

crisis has been used by

27:07

big companies to to to

27:09

put their to sort of.

27:12

To. Take take it as an opportunity

27:14

to keep their prices higher than the

27:16

normal other words the kind of inflation

27:18

premiums people expect inflation will give them

27:21

a little prices license and that it

27:23

is essentially put a new ah for

27:25

a little higher under what companies can

27:28

charge and they have cited ill the

27:30

oil companies I think have been cited

27:32

and stuff but when gas prices were

27:34

so high that was a know I

27:37

I target and of course your company

27:39

so we have to recoup money is

27:41

it was. A it's there

27:43

were lost and salchow years. Who knew

27:46

they had salary years but this idea

27:48

that somehow was yeah we are charging

27:50

more but we need do to make

27:52

up for years when things weren't so

27:55

goods. So yes a corporate pricing is

27:57

a big is a business you. You

28:00

know this whole you could say

28:02

what could biden have John that

28:04

he didn't do well? What it

28:06

nixon do with this is t

28:09

Sizzle implemented wage and price controls

28:11

that corporations good night their prices

28:13

and and way as unions couldn't

28:15

demand more money at essentially try

28:17

to freeze the insulation it didn't

28:19

work. But the point is it

28:22

showed that Nixon was willing to

28:24

do anything. To. Stop Inflation!

28:26

Did we get that from Biden?

28:28

Know. Yeah, well you know.

28:30

ah. Tom. Maybe he haven't

28:33

heard it. It's okay, but if you

28:35

go to the On Plane podcast the

28:37

which I guess you're already in it

28:39

to deals in the The Jackpot. Ah,

28:41

on June second, two thousand Twenty three

28:43

Tom. We. Did A So

28:45

that was literally headlined Greed,

28:47

Sli Sin. Or why corporations

28:49

are keeping their prices high

28:51

even though pen the pandemic

28:53

and supply chain issues have

28:55

pretty much gone away. If

28:58

can't fight in the podcast seed. Good on point

29:00

radio.org. And look for greed. Fleece it

29:02

because this is exactly what we were talking about

29:04

on that day. It's okay, Jack, so there's one.

29:07

More here. We got a call from

29:09

someone. No comment from someone who actually

29:11

says you are wrong. Wrong.

29:14

About the way you talked about inflation so this is

29:16

Kyle are far. From North Bend, Washington. he is

29:18

a C P A. The. Whole reason,

29:20

The Federal Reserve raises interest rates

29:22

and thus increases the interest we

29:25

all pay. On. Debt and

29:27

whether it's credit cards, car loans, or

29:29

mortgages. Is. To decrease the

29:31

demand for those things and then

29:33

cool off the economy at which

29:35

point spreads go back down. To.

29:38

Include those as a measure and

29:41

inflation is just. Mixing.

29:43

The pod s incorrectly.

29:46

Okay, to equity think about that. A

29:48

My point was and again I'm sorry.

29:52

I got my economics degree from

29:54

Walmart. I'm a widow. I know.

29:56

I I've citing no less than

29:58

Larry Summers. And his

30:00

colleagues at Harvard, who in this paper

30:03

for the National Bureau of Economic

30:06

Research, say that

30:08

inflation used to include, the

30:10

CPI, the Consumer Price Index,

30:12

used to include the cost

30:14

of money, exactly what our

30:17

gentleman thinks we left out, though there shouldn't

30:19

be part of it. I'm saying that

30:21

right up until 1983, that was a

30:24

standard measure. It isn't now, if

30:26

it were back into the CPI,

30:28

inflation would have been not at

30:30

its height 9%,

30:32

it would have been 18%. And

30:35

maybe we would have had wage and

30:38

price controls, who knows? But

30:40

I take his point that I

30:42

don't know what I'm talking about,

30:45

about inflation, but I assume Larry Summers

30:47

does. Yeah. Well, actually,

30:51

Kyler, I would love to hear your response,

30:53

because we actually kind of enjoy the

30:56

back and forth that we have here on the jackpot

30:58

with listeners. Because

31:00

I actually see the point

31:02

that Kyler is making, because

31:06

monetary policy is something that the

31:08

Fed thinks about and can

31:10

make changes on. And

31:14

if I remember correctly from our conversation

31:16

last week, Jack, we discovered that

31:18

one of the reasons why that 1983

31:20

change in the CPI was made was

31:22

to, in fact, take or reduce the

31:25

volatility in the CPI that was coming

31:27

with keeping in the cost of money.

31:29

Okay, so that might be what Kyler

31:32

was referring to in terms of mixing

31:34

the pot incorrectly. But again, this is

31:36

where I come back to economists

31:40

and charts say one thing.

31:44

But as we've heard from all these other listeners,

31:46

how we live our real lives, if

31:48

it doesn't have that much in common with

31:50

the numbers that policymakers are using

31:52

to make policies that impact our

31:55

real lives, then what good are

31:57

those numbers? So Kyler, let

31:59

us know. Well, send us a message with an

32:01

answer to those questions. And

32:04

with that, Jack, that's it for

32:06

this week. What another week.

32:08

Thank you as always. Thank

32:11

you, Meghna. Okay, I'm Meghna Chakrabarti and this

32:13

is the Jackpod. Come on.