0:00

We are so attached to the

0:02

idea of who we are, you know, whether it's

0:04

designed by what our parents always said about us.

0:06

But sometimes I find I would get so

0:08

attached to that that then I would be

0:10

afraid to let go because I

0:12

don't want to lose me. I don't want to lose me

0:15

and me, I know me. If I want to lose me, do I

0:17

love me? Hey?

0:24

Everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,

0:27

to number one health podcast in the world.

0:29

Thanks to each and every one of you that come back

0:31

every week to listen, learn and grow.

0:33

Now you know that one of my favorite ways

0:35

to learn is by learning people's stories,

0:38

by diving into their hearts, their minds,

0:40

their souls if they're willing to share that

0:42

and try and understand what we can learn, what

0:44

we can hear, what we don't understand.

0:47

Maybe there's a part of their journey that we

0:49

didn't know enough about. And I've found stories

0:52

become a huge compass for me in my life, and

0:54

that's why I try and share those with you here.

0:56

And today's guest is someone that I've actually wanted to talk

0:58

to for a long long time. I would

1:00

say I'd probably trying to book this podcast for like two

1:03

years in the making, so I'm very

1:05

very excited this evening. And just

1:07

so you know, he's had a crazy busy

1:09

day. It is officially seven forty

1:12

five pm on a Monday night

1:14

when we're recording this in New York City.

1:16

I'm talking about the one and only someone who needs no introduction,

1:19

Trevor. Noah, Trevor, thank you so much for

1:21

doing this. Thank you very much. I'm very grateful

1:23

to have you in the seat. Finally, it's

1:25

good. I'm grateful to be talking to you in person.

1:27

Most of the time I see you, I'm watching a clip

1:30

of yours online, so this is nice. No

1:32

I really appreciate this. And my interview

1:34

with you that we did when I was out talking

1:37

about Calm was my favorite

1:39

interview from that whole experience

1:42

because I felt that the questions you asked me

1:44

were the most reflective. They

1:46

were pushing me, they were challenging me in a healthy

1:48

way, and I was just like,

1:50

oh, well, you know, I want to sit down more

1:52

and have more of those conversation. Thank you for you so anyway,

1:55

but I want to start with you. But you

1:57

know, your book Born at Crime is brilliant, brilliant

2:00

work, and I don't want to go through the whole

2:02

book. I'd love for people to read it if they haven't. But I

2:04

guess what I'm fascinated by is human

2:07

experiences when we were children or early

2:09

on in our lives that shaped us today.

2:12

And I know you've reflected on that a lot, But

2:14

now, when you reflect on it today, what

2:17

are some of the examples of human experiences

2:19

that you had that you think shaped who you are today? Was

2:21

one of the earliest memories. Maybe My

2:23

mom is a Bible scholar, and

2:28

she reads the Bible every day, not

2:30

all of it, but she moves through it every

2:32

single day. What I've

2:35

found fascinating is that she's

2:37

been reading the same book for

2:39

decades now, and

2:42

every day she'll send me

2:45

an email or a message about

2:47

a scripture and how it pertains

2:50

to her life as she sees it now in

2:52

this moment, how it has been, and

2:54

how she thinks it will be. And what

2:57

I found particularly fascinating about that is

3:00

the fact that it's the same book and

3:03

yet it keeps meaning so many different things to her.

3:05

The same story, but it keeps meaning

3:07

so many different things. And I sometimes

3:10

think about my life in that way. Is

3:13

depending on where I am depending

3:16

on the moment, depending on where I've

3:18

been and where I'm going, The same

3:20

experience reveals a different

3:23

parts of me. The same experience reveals

3:26

why I am who I am,

3:28

or why I'm doing what I'm doing, or why

3:30

I even have an idea of who I am or why

3:32

I am. And so recently,

3:36

maybe since you know you're asking me, what

3:38

is one of these things? What is something I

3:41

think back to how

3:45

not having shaped how

3:47

I see the world, shaped how

3:49

I move in the world. You know, not having food,

3:52

sometimes, not having money,

3:54

sometimes not even having luxury items

3:56

sometimes you know, whether it be

3:58

clothing or cause, whatever it may be. But

4:01

but recently I've I've found myself

4:03

going man, so much of how

4:05

you define yourself is

4:08

through the lens of having or

4:10

not having, particularly

4:13

because of how you grew up. And

4:16

so it's it's not about having or not

4:18

having now, but it's in the small

4:20

things, you know, It's like how I order food

4:22

or why I order the food that I do, in the way that I

4:24

do it is partially because of having

4:27

or not having. And so I would say

4:29

that's maybe one of the biggest experiences that I find

4:32

has um Yeah, has recently

4:35

been like just shining and lights on how I

4:37

grew up. Yeah, that's fascinating. I've

4:39

often reflected on something similar, and I've called

4:41

it gifts or gaps they're

4:44

having or not having. Interesting. So certain

4:46

gifts that I had growing up, like be handed

4:49

to me by my parents or by my family.

4:51

Oh wow, okay, right, then

4:54

all of the gaps, well, there were gaps, like there

4:56

were things that you didn't have. So whether that

4:58

would be a present

5:00

parent or a I

5:03

didn't have the latest Nike sneakers

5:06

or Nike shoes as we would call it, yeah,

5:09

exactly, like yeah, ye American,

5:12

sound like an idiot exactly, Nike and

5:14

Adidas yes, as I say, added as

5:16

not Adidas. And so

5:18

those kind of gaps And obviously those are very crude

5:20

examples. But and do you find yourself

5:23

editing those now, Like do you find yourself

5:25

saying, Okay, I didn't have this,

5:27

and therefore I have this behavior. I did have

5:29

this, and therefore I have this behavior. Do

5:32

you feel like your behavior today

5:34

wants an upgrade because of your new lifestyle

5:36

or a downgrade or you kind of think, no,

5:38

I'm happy living with the same beliefs

5:40

and values and systems. That I had

5:43

from back then. All I'm constantly

5:45

trying to do is acknowledge them.

5:48

I try my best to eliminate good or bad. I

5:50

really do. And the reason

5:52

I do that is not because

5:56

you know, I exist in a spiritual

5:58

world, although I think we all do, but not

6:00

because of that. I think of it

6:02

more because I realized everything

6:06

and everyone is going to have a good or bad you

6:08

know. So I have yet

6:10

to meet a person who doesn't think

6:12

some parts of their childhood were tough. Yes,

6:16

but now it's when we compare the toughness

6:18

that that people then say, oh, actually, I didn't have it

6:20

tough. You had it tough and and you know, like people will

6:22

say to me, oh, man, you grow up so poor

6:24

in South Africa and you know, growing up

6:27

in the township and whatever. And I would

6:29

say to them, I didn't feel like this because

6:31

I would see, for instance, the slums

6:33

in India. I got like, man,

6:36

yo, And and maybe I was lucky,

6:38

funny enough, because in South Africa we

6:40

had news that was was global, and because

6:42

it was, it

6:45

was so I think it

6:47

was so broad. I had an awareness,

6:49

so I didn't think what I was living through was the

6:51

worst possible thing. Yes, but now relative

6:54

to how many other people lived, they've put me down at the

6:56

bottom of a list. Yes, yes, yes, and

6:58

yeah, And so I often don't think of it as good

7:00

or bad. I just try and go, oh,

7:03

that happened, that didn't happen because

7:06

of that, I adapted accordingly. You

7:08

know. So you know there's there's

7:11

a lot of rainfall, so then this

7:13

plant will start growing in that way there

7:15

isn't as much rainfall, the plant will grow another way.

7:17

Is it good or is it bad? That's oftentimes

7:20

something that's subjective because of who runs the world

7:22

or who tells us how the world should be or isn't or

7:25

you get what I'm saying. Yeah, no, And I love that

7:27

you've simplified it as awareness, because

7:29

that awareness or acknowledgement of

7:32

keeping it that way is often quite sacred

7:34

to be able to say no, I'm just observing.

7:36

I'm just saying and yeah,

7:39

it's hard. And you reminded me I was. I

7:41

was nine years old when I first visited India. I

7:43

was born and raised in London, but my

7:46

mum I was actually was born and raised in Yemen, and

7:48

my father was born and raised in India. But my parents are

7:50

in what part of India. My father was

7:52

from Mangalore, which is like southern

7:54

India, and my mother is from Guda, which

7:56

is northern India. But she was born and raised in Yemen,

7:59

so she moved to London when she was sixteen.

8:01

But when I went to India for the first time, when I was nine

8:03

years old, I remember we were in

8:05

a car and we were not well off,

8:07

so we weren't staying in a fancy hotel or whatever, but

8:09

we had enough money to visit, which is significant

8:12

for the air flight. And I

8:15

remember going in this car and you just sparked

8:17

this, and I remember like

8:19

stopping at a traffic light and

8:21

just looking out, and I saw these slums, and

8:24

I mean, I'd never seen something like that in London.

8:27

And I saw these little legs

8:29

poking out of like a barrel of a trash

8:32

can, and I

8:34

was just and the legs looked little like of someone

8:36

my age like around and then slowly

8:40

I saw her whole body come

8:42

out and it was this girl

8:44

and she didn't have any hands, and

8:46

she'd just been like trying to scrape the bottle. And I remember

8:49

being nine years old, and she was probably like maybe

8:52

the same age maybe a little less like and

8:54

I remember just looking at her and feeling like totally

8:56

helpless because I was in a car on the other

8:58

side of the highway and I

9:01

can't go and help or I want to, but I also don't

9:03

know what helped means as a nine year old,

9:05

and there was one of those experiences that you

9:07

know, and then I went back. I remember to my hotel

9:11

and I remember hearing like someone

9:13

was arguing about not enough menu

9:15

options on the buffet, and it

9:17

was just it was as it was like connecting

9:19

the dots, as you're saying of like, you

9:22

know, when you see your experience and then you see someone

9:24

else's experience, have

9:26

you found that what you did

9:28

go through that you ever needed to process

9:31

it or heal it, or because you had that perspective

9:33

since day one, that you

9:36

never needed that that it was just like, no, this is

9:38

my experience and I'm used to it.

9:40

Or were there moments of where you had

9:42

to revisit and I work

9:44

on healing every day. You know. I

9:48

grew up in a world where we almost

9:51

didn't have the time and all the resources to

9:53

heal, and I think for a long

9:55

time I was very comfortable in

9:57

accepting that as just being my world. Oh

10:00

that happened, you know, I shrug it

10:02

off and you keep on moving. Yeah, you shrug

10:04

it off. That happened, that happened to you, you know, domestic

10:07

abuse or okay, poverty, whatever

10:09

it may be, violence in the community or at home,

10:11

whatever. Yeah, that happens. You keep it moving. You

10:13

shrug it off because it is happening, and

10:16

funny enough, you can grow

10:18

up. And I knew. I grew up in a world

10:20

where I created this narrative in

10:23

my head that it

10:25

was not bad because it was happening

10:27

to everyone. Wow.

10:30

So now

10:34

most of my life, you know, is spent

10:37

acknowledging that it was

10:39

bad, and then spending

10:42

a lot of time acknowledging

10:44

how the bad created

10:47

coping mechanisms or

10:49

tools that I then use in my life

10:52

every single day, and

10:54

how I can accept those parts

10:56

of myself whilst

10:58

also not glorify find the things

11:00

that happened. Just sometimes

11:03

I fight with a lot of people when they do

11:05

this. I fight with all my friends, by the way,

11:10

anyone, anyone. I fight from friends with friends back,

11:12

I fight with anyone, j anyone. I'm

11:15

never grateful for suffering. I'm never grateful

11:17

for pain. I'm never I'm not grateful for those things.

11:19

What I work to be grateful for is

11:22

the resiliency that makes us in my family

11:24

and our ability to adapt. But

11:26

I'm not going to be grateful for a horrible thing that

11:29

happened to me or the people in my life. Yes,

11:31

because we learned how to deal with it. Yeah, you

11:33

know, I would like to live in a world where my

11:36

child doesn't have to develop that

11:38

tool. Let them, yeah,

11:41

let them, let their tool be. I had to

11:43

figure out, you know, how to

11:45

feel good about myself when I couldn't get as many TikTok

11:47

followers as I want to. Let that fine, let

11:49

that be their tool. But I

11:51

I understand the

11:53

you know, the esoteric idea. I understand what people

11:56

are saying sometimes, but I'm I'm

11:58

almost allergic to it because I think sometimes

12:00

what it does is it justifies

12:03

what people are going through, or it justifies

12:05

the idea that we we don't need

12:07

to do more, or people aren't going

12:10

through something bad. Because it creates

12:12

the best. It makes diamonds, it makes

12:15

it can create diamonds, and I'm like,

12:17

yeah, but what it can also do is pulverize

12:19

a lot of people into dust. Yeah, you know, and so diamonds

12:22

are the exception. I'm

12:24

often careful to think about. You know, Yeah,

12:26

I'm sure, I'm sure you understand what I mean. Yeah,

12:28

I mean hearing you. Actually, what I find is

12:30

that it, at least what I took away

12:32

from that is that it's the same thought. It's

12:35

just a deeper level of the same thought,

12:37

like it's with more clarity. Like it's

12:39

like, I think sometimes we hear that idea of be

12:41

grateful for everything or be grateful for the

12:43

suffering, and if you don't really think

12:46

that through, you can try

12:48

and artificially put that band aid.

12:50

Maybe that's yeah, yeah, and you just kind

12:52

of try and like, oh yeah, put the band aid on, and put the band

12:54

aid on of gratitude gratitude. But it's like

12:56

when you internalize then you process it.

12:58

That's when you can what you're doing, which is like clearly

13:01

sectioning it off and saying, I'm

13:04

not grateful for the act of violence,

13:06

or I'm not grateful for the suffering, as

13:08

you said, but I can be grateful

13:11

for the quality that resilience,

13:14

etc. Helped me push through. But I think

13:16

that's to me, that's just a deeper, more

13:18

refined thought out

13:20

of practicing gratitude almost

13:23

Do you think like I've always always wanted to know as,

13:25

like you know, as a monk, are you forced

13:27

to just be grateful for everything regardless

13:30

of what it is. No, I think

13:32

what you were saying is farm or aligned with

13:34

what I would think like as. And

13:36

I think that there's two parts, right, One

13:39

is what the philosophy tries

13:41

to share or state, and then

13:43

it's what you learn in the practice of that philosophy.

13:46

So if you try and be grateful, like I just

13:48

had this, this literally just happened, hence

13:50

I'm talking about it. I just had a double ingunal

13:53

hernia surgery, which means

13:55

that both my hernias, which are on either side of my

13:57

groin, had to have incisions in my stomach

14:00

mesh. Pretty it's not life threatening,

14:02

but it's massively inconvenient, and

14:05

I was I didn't work for three weeks. This is my first

14:07

week back at work and I'm feeling much.

14:09

The funniest is when you try and you

14:11

have like a sneeze or a cough. The first time

14:14

have you had this? Yeah, and then

14:15

you don't. Funny is when it happens

14:18

and the first time you don't realize how painful it

14:20

would be. And now your body doesn't allow

14:22

you to cough or sneeze or

14:25

But it's amazing. It's almost funny to what we're talking

14:27

about. This is what I mean, right. It

14:29

is amazing how

14:31

quickly your body responds to trauma

14:34

or pain. Yes, it's amazing at how

14:36

quickly it works to protect you from it. Because if

14:38

I said you don't sneeze or don't cough for three

14:40

weeks, it's impossible. Yeah, but

14:43

one cough and one sneeze when you've had your hernie

14:45

or any surgery that's abdominal, your

14:48

body goes. I never want to experience that

14:50

again. Never. And then you don't you know

14:52

exactly exactly. I know exactly what

14:54

you mean. For the first I was scared that

14:56

I was going to pop my HARNI yes, yes, exactly,

14:59

Yeah, you go. Yeah. And so I'm walking around

15:01

with a pillow, like halfway through the day.

15:03

My wife's like, what are you doing. I'm like I might laugh,

15:06

and she's laughing at me and like you can't make

15:08

me laugh either. Like I was like, I couldn't watch comedy

15:10

for three weeks because you can't laugh. It hurt

15:12

so much. But the reason I brought that up was

15:14

like, am I grateful I got a hernia?

15:17

No? Like, why would I be grateful. I've

15:19

been working out, I eat helped me. I'm like, you

15:21

know, I'm very I'm a mindful individual, but I

15:24

ended up with this from whatever, from working

15:26

out everything. I'm not grateful for

15:28

the hernia, but I'm grateful

15:30

for the journey I chose to

15:32

take during the experience that

15:35

has helped me have new appreciations. And so

15:37

I think the point of at least,

15:39

I mean, going to what you suggested, like, how would a

15:41

monk think about gratitude. I don't

15:44

think any quality or value

15:47

was embodied by force

15:50

or by prescription without

15:53

reflection. Okay, if that makes sense,

15:55

that anything without reflection is

15:57

practically okay, yeah, not the

16:00

right way to right, that makes sense. No, I

16:02

like that. I really do fight with a lot of people

16:04

about this and no,

16:06

and I you know, I obviously when I say fights, I

16:08

mean that's how we're using in the South Africa. Funny enough in

16:10

India as well. I'm sure you know this. When I was

16:13

in India, I went recently, and when I

16:15

loved is how people argue about everything

16:18

and like one of the guys who is there's a friend

16:20

of mine now and you know, we're arguing back

16:22

and forth. We're arguing and then like his friends steps

16:24

in and he's like driver, He's like, I'm so sorry, driver, please

16:27

whip I apologize. You know, he's not fighting with you. This

16:29

is how we do it in India. And I'm like, oh, I was like, this

16:31

is idea I want to live in this country.

16:33

Yeah, let's let's get into it. But this is what I

16:36

I argue with people about sometimes where I say,

16:38

yeah, I don't have to be grateful for it, yes,

16:41

because I often say and maybe I'm

16:43

maybe I'm wrong here, so I see

16:45

it I have found for myself

16:48

and maybe for others. Times we are

16:50

so attached to the idea

16:52

of who we are, the story

16:55

that we've told ourselves, the story that we continue

16:57

to tell ourselves, who we are, who we wish to

16:59

be, who we should be. You

17:01

know, whether it's designed by what our parents always said

17:03

about us. You're such a quiet child, You're

17:06

such a lovely person, You're so kind, you're so

17:08

polite, and you go that I am I should be,

17:10

then I you know, whatever it may be. But

17:13

sometimes I find, I would get so

17:15

attached to that that

17:17

then I would be afraid to let go

17:19

of the things that may be holding me

17:21

back, because I don't want to lose me, Because

17:24

who is me? If I don't have the pain, who

17:26

is me? If I don't have the trauma, who is me?

17:28

If I don't have the mistrust. I

17:30

don't want to lose me me? I know me?

17:32

What if I'm not me? I love me? And if

17:34

I want to lose me, do I love me? And

17:37

that's what I find the thing. So what

17:40

I've found helps me, you know. And I'll

17:42

say to some of my friends as I go, I

17:44

do not need to live my life believing that

17:48

I would not be me or I do

17:50

not love me. If I wish for these things

17:52

to not happen, but I rather

17:54

go, I would have learned something else. So I

17:57

learned a different part of my body. I learned how to work

17:59

through pain. I learned how to move differently because of

18:01

a hernia. Fine. Oh, I'm grateful

18:04

that I can learn. I'm grateful that I can recover.

18:06

I'm grateful that maybe I even learned how to rest a

18:08

little bit. Yes, take some time, slow

18:11

down, jay. But I

18:13

also sit with it and go. But

18:16

if I didn't have that hernia, if I didn't have that trauma

18:18

as a child, I would have had the opportunity

18:20

to learn something else. So maybe my tool

18:23

wouldn't have been used on this, it would have been used on something

18:25

else. And that doesn't diminish me or who I

18:27

think I am. It just allows me to almost

18:29

exist infinitely and go, Well,

18:32

then I can try to be whatever me

18:34

exists, you know. And you

18:37

it's like skin It's like, hey, it's like we're always losing

18:39

us, is what I think. Yeah, yeah, I

18:41

mean the cells in our bodies are changing all the time.

18:44

Yeah, I'm always trying that. And it's scary,

18:46

that's yeah, it's scary because I think

18:49

humans look for certainty as safety,

18:51

yeah, and security and stability. But

18:53

I was going to ask you that, like what you

18:56

started to touch on there, which which which

18:58

I love, is like identity belonging

19:01

and these are the things that you talk about so much in your past

19:03

as well. And what you're basically saying is

19:05

that, well, if we're open to our identity

19:07

changing and we're open to our home changing, I mean,

19:10

do you still feel attached to a sense of home,

19:12

like what is home to you today? Like, how

19:14

would you how do you think about the word

19:16

home? For me, the

19:18

true definition of the world home is

19:21

familiar of the family.

19:23

It's a repeated interaction. That's

19:26

all home is to me. You know.

19:28

The reason you call it my home is because you go back

19:30

to it every single day. If

19:32

somebody flipped all the furniture and the house every

19:35

day, you find you wouldn't if you'd say it doesn't feel like home,

19:37

but it is your home. Yes, you know I

19:39

think the house, yeah, exactly, my

19:42

friends or my home. The languages

19:44

you know, I speak on my home, the

19:46

food I eat in South Africa as my home. But

19:49

my home starts to grow, it starts to change.

19:52

You know. I said this to a friend of mine

19:54

when I got back from India. I said, man,

19:56

it felt like home. And he's like, what

19:58

do you India? I said, it's crazy,

20:00

but it felt like home. You

20:02

know. There are parts of daily ways like this feels

20:05

like home. You know. There are parts of

20:07

Bangalore, Bengalau where it's like, this feels

20:09

like home. Do you know what I mean? It's like and

20:12

people like, how can it feel like home? It's like, well, maybe

20:14

because part of it is reminiscent, you

20:16

know, it reminds me of South Africa. We

20:19

have an Indian population, it's huge, one of the biggest

20:21

in the world. We have Indian culture. But

20:23

also it's just it's it feels

20:25

familiar. It feels like home, and so for me,

20:27

that's that's what home means,

20:30

is a sense of the familiar. You

20:32

know, you can even experience randomly, if you travel

20:35

a lot in a hotel that you always frequent,

20:37

it feels like home. Yeah, so

20:40

that's what you know, that's what home

20:42

means for me. Yeah, it's

20:45

just that you know, and you feel that in New York too.

20:47

When you're here, you find that you have that because

20:49

of that familiarity, you feel like I've

20:51

always see you, and always it seems to

20:53

me like you're always home. I don't know why.

20:56

That's that's a nice thing for you to say. Genuinely,

20:58

it always seems like I never feel like you.

21:01

You're uncomfortable, I never feel like you.

21:04

But I don't know if that's just what you put

21:06

out, No I would.

21:08

It's I was going to define it. It's contextually

21:11

sharing now, but my definition

21:13

of home has always

21:15

been where I feel I'm living my purpose. So

21:19

that's always been my purpose. So and

21:21

I genuinely feel like that where I could wake

21:23

up and be in another

21:25

city or another country or another seat.

21:28

And as long as this is my like I feel

21:31

this, I'm doing my purpose tonight with you. And that's

21:33

why I'm here. Help me understand. So how

21:35

would you because I can try

21:37

to understand about what? What would you say you feel

21:39

your purpose is? So my purpose is

21:41

to help other people find their purpose, Okay, And

21:44

to me, my purpose is to be

21:47

a vessel of being able to expose

21:49

people to a number of different ideas,

21:52

insights, paths, stories, walks

21:54

of life so that they can find theirs.

21:56

I don't think everyone's purpose looks like mine.

21:59

I don't think everyone's path looks like mine

22:02

because I think one of the best things I got when

22:04

I was a kid, and again it goes back to my childhood

22:06

experiences, my dad was really worried

22:08

that I didn't read enough and

22:11

I would never be interested in reading fiction

22:13

books at school. So we'd get the fiction books

22:15

like goose Bumps and then later on Harry Potter

22:17

and all these books, and I

22:19

would never read them and I wouldn't have any

22:21

interest in them. So my dad was worried and my mum was worried

22:24

that this kid's not going to read. And

22:26

now I was back about thirteen going on fourteen,

22:28

and I still wasn't reading a lot, and

22:31

so my dad started giving me biographies

22:33

and autobiographies, and so

22:35

I read like by the time I was sixteen, I'd read Malcolm

22:37

X Martin, Luther King. Wow.

22:40

I was also reading like David Beckham and Drada L.

22:42

Johnson because I was a massive soccer football fan,

22:45

and so I started just like collecting

22:47

all these stories. And then, as

22:50

I told you when I said on your show, like I met

22:52

a monk when I was eighteen, and that was the story that

22:54

my purpose felt connected to God. And

22:57

so now I feel I'm like, well, someone's going to

22:59

listen to Trevor story and feel far more connected

23:02

interest and that may spark this kid

23:04

out there to say, hey, maybe that's

23:06

the kind of direction I want to go in. I feel

23:08

like today where we're exposed to the

23:10

same people online and on TV

23:12

and streaming, and we're also

23:14

exposed to the same parts of them, that's

23:17

true. And my hope is that this podcast, even

23:19

if you're seeing someone who's famous and popular like yourself.

23:22

Hopefully people get a deeper insight into

23:24

someone famous and popular, or they

23:26

get to meet someone random who's not famous and

23:28

popular, but it's interesting. So anyway, that's

23:30

that's my purple. So I feel like if

23:32

I'm doing that in a city, in a country, I'm

23:35

home. And it's because

23:38

one of the famous scholars and you two about

23:40

your mother being a scriptural scholar and

23:42

like such an avid reader. I

23:44

never met this scholar, but my monk teachers

23:46

would often quote him, and he said

23:48

that the only place higher

23:51

than like the spiritual realm, and

23:53

he would be poetry, but also you

23:55

know literal as well, that the only place

23:58

higher than being in heaven or the virtual

24:00

realm is a place you live your purpose. And

24:03

that idea always like connected

24:05

with me, because then I was like, oh, so I could be in the middle

24:07

of chaos but still feel at holds

24:10

and so it gives me a sense of comfort, and

24:13

you know, that's what keeps me going when the day is tough,

24:15

when things are going whatever they are,

24:17

it's something that comforts me and it works for me.

24:21

If you're spending time with loved ones for the

24:23

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24:25

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24:27

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24:29

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24:31

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24:34

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24:36

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24:38

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24:41

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24:48

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26:09

you as the one thing. The thread that I've heard

26:11

in you, which I really appreciated, is like literally

26:14

three times you've responded, You've said

26:16

my friends, my friends. I was talking to my friend,

26:19

Like this person talks a lot to their friends,

26:21

which which is really beautiful because you're thinking,

26:24

wow, that you're a busy person. You're

26:26

back to back. I mean, I remember I was in I

26:29

think we were both speaking at the Charger Book

26:31

Festival. You landed. One night,

26:33

I message you and I said, Trevor, let's do breakfast. You're

26:36

like, dude, I leave. I was

26:38

there for eight hours. You were there for like six

26:40

or four. And I was like, I thought I

26:43

was there for not enough to like I was there for eight hours

26:45

and you were like, dude, I'm literally leaving tonight. And

26:48

so you're a busy person. But in this conversation,

26:50

so many times you said friends friends friends friends, friends,

26:52

Like yeah, Like how

26:55

a, who are the friends? What are you

26:57

talking to them about? Like what's your consistent?

27:00

See I'm fascinated by that, because so

27:02

who are the friends? Predominantly my friends

27:04

are from South Africa, friends

27:06

I met doing different things, all

27:09

all organic meetings,

27:11

which I'm a sucker for.

27:14

I'm terrible at making friends, partially

27:16

because I don't trust people easily. I

27:19

exist in the world where I can be friendly with many

27:21

people, but you

27:23

know, it takes me a while to accept that this

27:26

person is actually a part of my

27:28

life. And I think for a

27:30

long time it was because and still

27:32

is sometimes because a I

27:34

have an idea of putting

27:37

something on that person where I

27:39

may need them means that they may disappoint

27:41

me. And then on the other side of it, them

27:44

needing me means I could be in the position to disappoint

27:46

them, you know. And And so

27:50

as we learn people, I find, we

27:52

learn what they can and cannot do, we learn

27:54

who they are or are not. And

27:57

it's always situational for me, you know, That's

28:00

that's when I'll call you like a friend. Is

28:02

that I know how you are in

28:05

most situations.

28:06

Yeah, you know that that

28:08

that for me is the definition of a friend. So

28:12

you know, I can be we use it loosely obviously,

28:14

but you know I can be friends with you and we always meet for lunch, always

28:16

me for But but then I only know you in one

28:19

way. My friends, I

28:21

start to be able to

28:25

I almost almost store in a vault in my

28:28

mind. I can say, for a fact, if

28:30

we're friends. If Jay was

28:32

here, this would bother him. He

28:34

would like that. He would probably

28:36

say this, and that's why

28:39

he would act this way. And

28:41

that's you know, that's that's

28:43

how I think of my friends. Yeah, so

28:47

they've been a major part of making

28:49

me feel at home. You know, my my

28:51

my job, stand up comedy is a really lonely career,

28:53

you know. And I remember talking

28:55

to a comedian, it was a few weeks ago, talking about

28:58

how there was like a period where all

29:00

the stand up comedians we're committing suicide,

29:02

you know, and would be you'd hear

29:04

this devastating story of a comedian that everyone

29:06

loved. They were in a hotel room and

29:09

then they committed suicide and

29:11

I was petrified because

29:13

I always think it can

29:16

happen to me. You know, I go

29:18

that if that happened to them, why did it happen? How

29:20

If I don't understand, then what

29:22

is it? Another comedian, another comedian, Another comedian,

29:24

another comedian. I think being a stand up

29:26

comedian is a really lonely job in

29:29

that we're traveling oftentimes

29:31

alone. We don't have a band, we don't

29:33

have backup dancers, we don't we don't,

29:35

we don't travel. Can you imagine? And

29:39

yet every night you're going out there and

29:41

you're making people love, you're having fun with

29:43

them. They come with their families,

29:45

they come with their friends, they come with their loved

29:47

ones. You leave alone and

29:50

and it's this constant exchange

29:53

of energy. And what

29:55

I learned was my my friends became

29:58

that hub. My friends became my recharge.

30:01

My friends became the couch I could

30:03

lie on and say nothing or everything. And

30:07

thanks partly to technology, I've been able

30:09

to keep in touch with them. There's no

30:11

there's no catching up for us. It's

30:13

literally a running We've

30:15

got a WhatsApp thread that is now I'm

30:17

gonna say, fifteen

30:20

years old, Like

30:22

literally I can go back and search something from

30:25

maybe ten years ago. Sometimes I can go back on the

30:27

WhatsApp there and go what happened, and I can search

30:29

and I can find it. That's how long we've had the same

30:32

group and the same friends and the same everything.

30:34

And obviously it's grown over time, but

30:36

that core has kept me. You know, I

30:39

always think, did you end up reading Harry Potter? I

30:41

didn't ever read it. I've watched all the movies. Yeah, oh,

30:43

do you watched it? Okay, I watch till movies. I know. I'm

30:45

a big fan act Okay, okay, So I

30:47

feel like your friends in

30:50

life or your

30:52

Hale cruxes. Oh interesting,

30:54

Okay, you know, yeah, I think that's people.

30:56

What we do is we break ourselves

30:59

into parts, and whenever

31:01

we meet people, we give them a

31:04

part of ourselves. And

31:06

some people we give more than we give others.

31:08

But we give everyone a different part of ourselves.

31:11

No one in your life has the same part

31:13

that another person has. They may seem similar, but they're

31:15

not. Your mother and father hold

31:17

different parts of you. Your uncles, your

31:19

cousins, your brothers, sisters, your friends,

31:22

whoever it is, they will hold a different parts of you,

31:24

and the same way Voldemort could use that

31:26

to come back to life. I feel like

31:29

we can use that wow to come back

31:31

to life. Wow. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're watch a different

31:33

movie. Yeah, the

31:36

Book of my Friend.

31:39

Yeah, And so I always think

31:41

that is I. I man.

31:43

Sometimes I can be at my worst. I can be sometimes

31:45

I can be lost. Really Jay, there will be times

31:47

when I'll be like, what am I doing? Or why am I? I'm stressed,

31:50

I'm tired, I'm burnt out, I feel

31:52

lost. And I can call a friend and

31:54

no joke. They can say to me, well,

31:57

the Trevor I know, you

31:59

know, and and I love that they say that. They don't say this

32:01

is who you are or not. They go the Trevor I

32:03

know found his joy here. Hey.

32:07

You know, I've noticed that you're always happiest

32:09

when you do it this way. Hey, I've noticed

32:11

that you know you stress more when you're in

32:13

this person. Hey, can I go man?

32:16

I didn't know that about

32:18

myself. Well, I didn't hold myself that way because

32:20

I'm always experiencing all of me still

32:23

through my lens. But

32:25

thank you. You freed me, you encouraged

32:28

me, you held me, you

32:31

loved me. And

32:33

what then happens is I

32:36

start to find what

32:38

I need to get back to my purpose, to

32:40

my passion, to whatever drives

32:42

me. And that's why my friends are a big

32:44

part of that. That is that is the core

32:47

of my world, you know. And

32:49

and it's funny. My mom even used to say that to me

32:53

when I was growing up, you know, at

32:55

a certain age, she said to me, she'd say to

32:57

me, my friend, you know, and I'd be like, I'm not

32:59

your friend, You're my mom. And

33:01

my mom would say, just because I'm your mom doesn't mean i'm

33:03

your friend. She said. There are many mothers out there that I'm

33:05

friends with their child. And she said, I'm your mother

33:08

and I will always love you as your mother,

33:11

but you are becoming

33:13

my friend. And

33:16

that stuck with me. I realized that friendship

33:18

is a choice. Every other relation

33:20

we have isn't, and so even

33:23

your your relatives can

33:25

become your friends or may not be your friends. And

33:27

I think understanding that illuminates

33:29

a lot of how you interact with people in the world. Yeah,

33:32

I really resonate with

33:34

what I mean, everything you said, But one of the

33:36

things that stood out was that kind

33:38

of performance loneliness and

33:41

my work mainly started with coaching

33:43

and working with people. And I work with a lot of

33:46

musicians and people who tour and travel, not comedians,

33:48

but artists, and you know, they're

33:50

performing to like one hundred thousand people, eighty

33:52

thousand people. And then they would always talk to me about

33:54

this and I didn't I didn't really

33:57

have a empathetic

33:59

experience of it. I could understand

34:01

it theoretically. And then

34:04

because most of the events I used to speak out with,

34:06

like corporate events or like a business event

34:08

or things like that. And then a few years

34:10

ago when I did my first ever event with my

34:12

audience, and it was in La people who came

34:15

because they followed my work, not because

34:17

of anything else. It was only about two thousand

34:19

people in the audience. And I finished the event

34:22

and I got into the car and

34:24

it hit me and I was like, oh,

34:27

like, this is chemical. This is definitely

34:29

a chemical, because you've just had thousands

34:31

of people shouting your name and like loving everything

34:33

you say and all this validation and everything else

34:36

as well you were saying when you were coming, like the dopamine

34:38

that everything. And then all of a sudden,

34:40

I was like, wait a minute, this feels

34:43

weird, Like why do I feel like, you know,

34:45

a sense of loneliness. And it was really

34:47

interesting because I felt like that pretty much the whole and I felt

34:49

like calling someone yes, and I

34:51

couldn't because in London it was too

34:53

early. None of my friends would be away,

34:56

and so they're eight hours ahead because I'm in LA

34:58

and I'm going, oh God, wait the hour

35:00

for my friend to wake up. Two hours. I'm not going to wake him

35:02

up in the middle of the night. So I'm waiting there.

35:05

And then all my friends in LA were just at the event,

35:07

so I just saw them, and so they're probably

35:09

like going home, and it was a week night, and so maybe

35:12

then I'm like, I don't want to And then I get

35:14

home and my wife would organize

35:16

a surprise party for me with all my best friends,

35:18

my closest friends in law, and

35:21

it was like a relief. It

35:23

wasn't even a celebration. I was like, there's

35:25

a sense of relief. I was like, oh, thank God,

35:27

because I don't know what. I don't know what I would

35:29

have done tonight. Man, Like, you know, I understand

35:32

why people turned to drugs. I understand why people

35:34

turned to I understood like it was the first

35:36

time I was like, because you need to numb

35:39

its. Yeah, you need to numbage because you just

35:41

don't know what to do with that feeling. And that

35:43

was the first time I'd felt that way. And I can't

35:45

imagine, as you were saying, for someone who's on tour and traveling

35:47

every night. Drug as I said, my

35:49

drug was chocolates. I love to up. That was

35:52

like my I couldn't. It's like

35:54

my team knew, my people knew. It's like I'll

35:56

do the show and immediately. And you

35:58

probably relate to this more because coming from

36:00

the UK in America, they don't really do it. In

36:02

South Africa. Our petrol

36:05

stations, our gas stations, right, they

36:07

have amazing stores attached to them.

36:10

Like here, every gas station looks like it's already

36:12

been robbed. You don't want to pour gas. I don't

36:14

like it looks terrible. They all look abandoned.

36:16

Yeah yeah, yeah, they all look like a ghost. They really

36:19

did. Yeah. Whereas where we're from, it's like, oh,

36:21

you go and you buy a pie, you buy some you

36:23

do buy a few dreams. It's like cooked exactly.

36:25

It's like, oh, this is life. You can get some groceries on though

36:27

it's a very normal concept, and

36:30

that would be me. After every show I would

36:32

drive, there would be the silence. I couldn't listen

36:35

to music. I couldn't. My mind would just be

36:37

It's like I could hear everybody, but they

36:39

were gone. And then I would

36:41

go in and then I would buy chocolate would be my thing,

36:44

it immediately, and then I I you know, over

36:46

the years, I would read and I'd started learning that

36:48

you know, chocolate, the dopamine, the sugar, one

36:50

of these things. I was I was correcting

36:52

a chemical thing without realizing it, because

36:55

it is a it is a shock on your body. Everyone

36:58

nothing. Yeah, it's it's so fascinating

37:00

that that that experience. And I'm sure

37:03

people have that in different ways in their

37:05

life, Like you don't have to be a performance

37:07

two thousands of people to experience that. I think

37:09

people experienced that in lots of different ways. It's

37:12

beautiful that you've been able to continue

37:14

this tenure WhatsApp chat like that's you know,

37:16

that's like a brilliant achievement. How

37:19

did you do in such a way that when you became unrelatable

37:22

to people? Like, how has that affected

37:25

your friendships, your life, your relationships,

37:27

Because at one point. I'm guessing. You

37:29

know, when when you come to America, you crush

37:32

on the Daily Show, things are going great, you

37:34

know, times one hundred most influential

37:36

people like, crushing took some time. But yeah,

37:38

okay, no, no, of course, no, no, no no, no, it tooks

37:41

it. I mean it too, like it actually goes into

37:43

your goes into your question. Yeah, And

37:46

I just think that there's an interesting thing about

37:48

being so grounded and like,

37:51

I'm enjoying this conversation. It's it's fun.

37:53

We're like just having a real conversation. But at

37:55

the same time, to a lot of people externally,

37:57

you can start becoming more unrelatable. So

38:00

what's interesting is the reason I the reason I put

38:02

it in, the reason I say the crushing

38:04

wasn't instant. When

38:07

you're on a journey, people oftentimes

38:09

will remember the beginning of the journey and

38:14

they will define the journey by

38:16

the way it currently is or how it ended.

38:19

You know, you lived a good life because

38:21

of how your life ended. If somebody is,

38:24

you know, really poor for eighty

38:26

years, then they win the lottery at eighty and then they

38:28

buy their family stuff and they have a good People were like, man,

38:30

it was tough body. We had a good life,

38:34

did they? Though it's more like, oh, we remember that.

38:36

That ending is what we often

38:38

remember. And to

38:41

your point of relatable, My

38:44

journey was really interesting, particularly

38:46

in America, because for many

38:49

months, maybe even a year and

38:51

a bit, I was hated, you know, by

38:53

many people. Don't get me wrong, there many people who loved me,

38:55

but it was such a visceral understandable,

38:58

but this will response to me as

39:00

a concept, who are you? How dare

39:02

you? You? On the show what you know? And you're

39:05

trying to establish imagine

39:07

trying to meet people for the first time, but

39:09

they have an idea of you, and they've already decided what the idea

39:11

of you is, and so you

39:13

you you can't even relate

39:16

or make yourself relatable to them, and

39:19

then overnight, all of a sudden,

39:21

people go, are you crushing it?

39:23

It's a it's a it's a really weird space

39:25

to be in because it's it's

39:28

terrible, and then it's not. But your

39:30

brain doesn't shift that quickly. I remember learning

39:32

once that the

39:34

human brain and the

39:37

human body aren't necessarily

39:39

always on the same page. If you're running

39:41

from danger, if there's if there's a threat

39:44

and you run from the danger. Even when

39:46

the danger subsides, your body's

39:48

still in the danger. And

39:50

yeah, I think I think they talk about something similar in the book

39:52

The body keeps the score, but your

39:55

body's still there, and your mind goes, hah, all right,

39:57

oh okay, I'm done. Your body's like, oh

40:00

hot, pumping, you know, veins, throbbing,

40:02

everything is still happening. And

40:04

you know that that was part of my experience. But

40:07

what was interesting was to your points

40:09

of relatable. I didn't even have a moment to

40:11

exist in relatable. It

40:13

was stranger. You know,

40:15

don't like different, weird? Why

40:17

do you say words the way you do? You know? What

40:20

is aluminium? All these things coming together

40:23

and then oh, yeah, our

40:26

guy, you know which I'm grateful for

40:28

internally grateful. I was telling my people

40:31

everyone, I go, yo, do not forget, Do

40:33

not forget how hard this

40:35

was, Do not forget, Do not take it

40:37

for granted. But what

40:39

happens is it's

40:42

not that you don't become relatable or you aren't

40:45

relatable, or it's it's it's how people

40:47

relate to you. They have one

40:49

idea of who you are,

40:52

they have one idea of

40:54

of how you are, and It's understandable

40:57

because of how they interact with you. You know.

40:59

I I have two younger brothers,

41:02

both, in my opinion, far

41:05

wiser than I'll ever be. Always, always, you

41:08

know, I'll custom out and say, you

41:10

guys, you guys cheated because you like took

41:12

what I did and then you just like you leap frogged

41:14

me, you know. And and

41:16

my youngest brother said one of the most beautiful things.

41:18

One day, we were trying to have dinner as

41:21

a family, and we're taking a quiet moment, and

41:23

you know, someone came over to the table and they're like, hey, can

41:25

I get a selfie? And and this is happening

41:27

in the dinner and you know, and and

41:29

and someone who was with us said, oh, man, that must

41:32

get annoying. And I was like, well, I get it.

41:34

And I said, I just don't understand the

41:37

familiarity and the I don't understand

41:39

it truly. And my brother said one of the most interesting

41:41

things. He said, No, what you're

41:44

not understanding is

41:46

a disconnect in

41:49

your relationship, in the relatability. He

41:51

said, You've met

41:54

them, and they've talked to you, and you've had a conversation

41:56

with them, and so they've built up a relationship

41:59

with you, but they don't understand that

42:01

you haven't been building up the same relationship with them.

42:03

And so they, he said, they're reacting to you as naturally

42:06

as they would had you been

42:09

conversating with them constantly. And

42:11

so he said, if anything, they're acting normally,

42:14

you're acting weird because they go, hey, Trevor,

42:16

and You're like, who the hell are you? And I'm like, what do you mean? We've

42:19

been friends for seven years? What's you on TV? Every

42:21

day? And just

42:23

through that Lens he helped me understand

42:26

that it's it's that they were

42:28

misrelating, yes, And that's sometimes what happens

42:30

to us, I think as people is we're misrelating.

42:33

We have an idea of the thing that

42:36

isn't incorrect from our point of view,

42:38

yes, but is incorrect from the

42:40

other person's points of view. And so that's what

42:43

creates the conflict, That's

42:45

what creates the disconnect,

42:47

and that's what creates the loneliness, that's what creates the

42:49

isolation, that's what creates the you know,

42:52

yeah, it creates an environment that

42:55

doesn't lend itself to familiarity,

42:57

to trust, to relaxation.

43:00

I think that's where it becomes even more important

43:04

to find your grounding, to

43:06

find your space, to find you. Like my friends know me

43:08

in the group, I'm notorious as the

43:10

vacation guy. I'm the holiday guy. Really,

43:14

I'm like, where are we going? What are we doing? We're making

43:16

this happen. I shoot out a list

43:18

and everything because I don't live back home.

43:20

Yes, they all do. So I've learned they can take

43:22

for granted the fact that we will see each other, and they might go like,

43:24

oh, did we plan anything for December? Oh we didn't. Oh,

43:26

well, well we'll do.

43:29

No. I can't take it for granted, and

43:31

so they know I go every year, I'm like, guys, what are we

43:33

doing? And what are we doing here? Three times a year

43:35

we have to be in the same place. And doesn't

43:37

mean we're going somewhere fancy. No, we might

43:40

just find a place a house and we sit together

43:42

and that's what it's going to be. But I make

43:44

it happen because of

43:46

that relats ability, because that is where

43:49

I can exist. They can exist. I can

43:51

exist, they can exist, you know. Because sometimes what's

43:54

funny is it can go the other way for me. Sometimes

43:57

I will completely be myself with people

44:00

and they won't know what to do with it because

44:02

they only have one idea of me. Yeah,

44:05

you know. Yeah, so they'll meet me and travel,

44:08

hey how are you? Hey, hey buddy, gayboll And if

44:10

I say something back and they say, hey, wait what was that,

44:13

I'm like, oh, this is all of me. Yeah,

44:15

they don't have a reference point, and I get that, and

44:17

so I yeah, it's it's it's

44:19

really interesting when you exist in a one dimensional

44:22

space in terms of you know, you

44:24

know, I guess it would be unidirectional, just like you know,

44:26

it's just going in that one direction as

44:28

opposed to it coming back and going you know,

44:31

yeah, definitely. That's such a great answer. I'm one of

44:33

those people that like, generally,

44:35

if I get enough time to meet someone, or if I know someone's

44:37

going to be in my life for an extended period of time,

44:40

i I hire a new person on my team or

44:42

something like that, I try and show them

44:44

all of me very quick. I don't

44:46

know one of those people that are like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna

44:48

I'm gonna be as jokey as I usually am. I'm

44:50

gonna expose you to how I choked to my wife, Like interest.

44:53

And I do that not as a not

44:55

as I definitely do it as a conscious

44:57

It's not like it happens. It's a conscious

45:00

attempt at trying to figure out

45:02

whether this person actually wants to be around me or lifting,

45:05

because I'd rather quickly figure out whether

45:07

I feel chemistry with someone yes, as

45:09

opposed to wait to reveal

45:11

my full self for them to what

45:13

you said to then let them down and then they're like, oh,

45:16

George, I didn't know you liked it. And

45:18

so I usually warn people I'm like, hey,

45:20

I make a lot more jokes in person than I do

45:22

on Instagram. And so if I'm

45:25

like and I'm banned to a lot because of Britain, and me

45:28

and my wife will ban to a lot. So most people think me and

45:30

my wife are going to get a divorced every other day because

45:32

it is like the one we talked to each other because

45:34

we're both from England. I want

45:36

people to be exposed to that, not because I want

45:38

them to appreciate you or like, I just want to know quickly

45:41

whether whether you vibe with you. Okay, but

45:43

but aren't you ever concerned going the

45:45

other way? Because you may go this is me,

45:47

this is all of me. Yeah, not, depending

45:49

on your position in life. The person

45:52

may be a

45:54

certain way to you. Sure based on

45:57

that Sure, because they feel they can't and then

45:59

they reveal themselves, Then what do you do when

46:01

they reveal themselves in a positive or like a challenge

46:04

challenging way. In a challenging way, then well,

46:06

that's what I'm saying that it's people that I think

46:08

are going to be in my life for a longer period of time.

46:10

And then if it's if it's a team member where we don't

46:12

get along, then we can both move on and go out separate

46:15

ways. I wouldn't do it with someone that I

46:17

am not getting enough quality time. Does a monk

46:19

fire someone? How does the monk fire as well?

46:21

I'm not a monk anymore. I'm I'd

46:23

love to know how it's a monk fight it

46:26

is? You know what? The thing about it

46:28

is so uncomfortable? Oh it is

46:31

okay. I thought maybe as a monk it was like super chill

46:33

and you just come in and you go. In life, everything

46:36

is happening to you. You know,

46:39

everything that seems bad could be good,

46:42

and so this

46:44

as me letting you go. But rather

46:46

think of this as me setting you free. Yeah, I

46:49

think maybe it would be something more surrender then

46:51

you have to end it. That would be

46:53

brilliant, But it isn't comfortable. It's so as

46:56

in I've also been let go, so

46:58

I know what it feels like. Like I've in in a position

47:00

where I think I've been let go poorly,

47:03

where it hasn't been handled well where

47:05

and I'm very clear on how like having

47:08

one skill set doesn't just naturally

47:10

apply to everything. Being a monk

47:12

doesn't make me good at recruiting

47:14

people or letting go of people. Those are

47:16

not transferable skills. There's

47:19

certain elements of compassion

47:21

and empathy, but it doesn't make you good

47:23

at the start that it will cover everything, and

47:25

it doesn't. It doesn't right, Like I think, to

47:27

give you a very practical example,

47:30

I felt for a lot of a long time

47:32

that people needed

47:35

love. Like I felt for a long time

47:37

that I believe that if you love people then they will be happy

47:39

and they will feel good about stuff. And

47:41

I used to believe that. And after

47:44

trying to express love to people even

47:46

in the way they want it so, not even unconsciously,

47:49

but I would try and figure out, how does this person

47:51

receive love? Okay, let me give them love in the way

47:53

they want to receive love. I've

47:55

realized that so many people were not even

47:57

operating on that level.

48:00

Yeah, that all they needed was safety,

48:03

like they just needed a base level of

48:05

safety. They weren't They couldn't

48:07

even accept or receive love

48:10

because that was such a lofty, deep

48:13

idea. It's like they

48:15

didn't understand how someone who doesn't

48:17

know them very well could express

48:20

deep love for them because they've

48:22

never experienced that before. How do

48:24

you find the correct

48:27

safety to convey?

48:29

And what I mean by that is we

48:31

all have a different idea of what safety means,

48:34

you know, going back to your idea of you

48:36

know, when you were saying stability and stability earlier

48:38

in the conversation. One of the wildest

48:41

discoveries I made in therapy was

48:45

where I was speaking to my therapist

48:47

and I realized I am particularly

48:49

comfortable in chaos. That

48:52

is where I'm most comfortable. You

48:54

know, if you're in an airport and

48:57

you know flights are being canceled and

49:00

you know everything's being delayed, you want me rolling

49:03

with you like I'm that

49:05

is me problem. I solve it. I

49:08

genuinely I find a

49:11

beautiful hum of peace that comes

49:13

over me when there is chaos, traffic,

49:16

everything caused. That's

49:18

where I'm comfortable. And

49:20

yet the flip I also discovered

49:22

was true is that when there's calm,

49:25

now I'm in chaos. Wow.

49:28

You know. And so I learned that I

49:30

felt safest where

49:32

most people didn't, and I felt

49:35

the least safe where

49:37

most people would know. And I learned

49:40

a lot of that came because growing

49:43

up in a home where there

49:45

was domestic abuse. You

49:48

you know, the silence meant

49:50

you didn't know anything

49:52

could happen at any moment. What's going

49:54

on? What's happening? You don't know, you

49:56

don't know. But when something is happening,

49:58

all you have to do is deal with it. Yeah.

50:00

Wow, I mean that, do you get?

50:03

Yeah? I mean I mean, but that's like, that's

50:05

such a challenging, difficult idea

50:09

for people to grasp because what you're

50:11

saying is that I can hear gunshots at

50:13

least I know, well, I know who is

50:15

coming from, correct, Yeah? Yeah, exactly, I know where

50:17

to run away too from exactly. You

50:19

get what I'm saying. Yeah, No, no, I fully get what

50:21

you're saying. But I'm just saying that that is a

50:23

challenging concept for people to get around because if you've

50:26

not been brought, if you've not been raised in a space

50:28

like that, like, that's so much to do with your upbringing.

50:30

Yeah, but that's what I mean by safety. So that's

50:33

why I'm a yeah. Yeah, So how do you

50:35

even find that? Because you know, I understand what

50:37

you mean by love, because again, how we process it, what

50:39

our languages are, et cetera, or so specific.

50:41

But even safety, you know, my

50:44

my idea of safety isn't the same

50:46

as your idea. Of course, you know whether

50:48

it will be in a personal relationship, in a romantic

50:50

relationship. You know. Some people's idea of safety

50:52

is hey, you you text me every day,

50:55

and you exactly you call me to make sure I

50:57

got home and you. Another person's idea of

50:59

safety is you leave me alone

51:01

when I'm busy. That makes me feel safe. You take care

51:03

of yourself, makes me feel safe, you

51:05

know what I mean. So how do you then find what

51:08

the person's idea

51:10

of safety is? Well, I think it's what you just said

51:12

that there's a hierarchy of needs, right, and

51:14

everyone has their different like you

51:16

said, like the base level, and I'm

51:19

looking at the vaders, which is what I studied

51:21

as a monk, and it says that the base level of anyone's

51:24

motivator is fear and anxiety,

51:27

right, Like people get motivated by fear

51:29

and anxiety. So the lack of fear and anxiety

51:31

is a sense of safety. Right.

51:34

Higher than that is someone who's motivated by

51:36

results or goals, so they feel safe when they're

51:39

moving towards something. They feel safe when

51:41

they're driving towards a deadline

51:43

that is clear and active. Another

51:45

level is tranquility and

51:47

calm, And it's like someone feels safe

51:50

when they feel clarity, okay, right,

51:52

and so in similar what you're saying, like, there's

51:54

so I think what I realized though,

51:56

was that safety was such a base

51:58

need of human right that

52:01

until you fulfill that need, it

52:04

love just and this is just experience,

52:06

right, I'm saying this from my experience. I

52:08

just felt like opening my heart to people, or like

52:10

trying to give love to people in a very genuine

52:13

way, I just felt that it couldn't

52:15

fully be received because I realized

52:17

most people have probably never received love, even

52:20

maybe from their parents or their family, or

52:22

from the people they expected to love them. So

52:24

when someone unexpected comes along and

52:27

tries to show you love, it's like what

52:29

is it? What does he want? Or what is this going on? Or you

52:31

know, where does this land? And so I was like all right, like real it

52:33

back, you know, real it back it just

52:36

figure out safety first. Anyway,

52:38

that was at least a personal experience. But

52:40

but but why did we get there? We got there because

52:43

we're talking about this idea with you of like you

52:46

know, talking about relatability. Yeah, and we're

52:48

moving through to you know, safety and

52:50

love and then meeting people, and you're talking about how

52:52

you will reveal all of yourself

52:55

early on that so that the person I guess

52:57

is in the safest space. Really yeah,

52:59

and that's only my method. Again,

53:01

I'm not saying that's right or wrong. It's just kind of

53:03

and even what you said earlier, like you said, like Jay,

53:05

you always feel safe. I think I feel

53:07

the opposite too. I feel most unsafe when

53:10

I think I'm somewhere and I don't have a purpose

53:12

there. Okay, So if I get invited

53:14

to a place where I don't feel I have

53:16

any purpose, you will see me just like I

53:19

will last like thirty minutes and then I will

53:21

leave because I'm just like, what am I going to do here?

53:24

I'm not just going to shoot the breeze? So do you

53:26

purpose them not doing being in

53:28

my purpose? Yeah? Yeah, So when I'm in a space

53:30

like that, I will, I will look at I will

53:32

be there. Of course I can. I can have conversations and I

53:34

can talk and everything else. You're not crying in a corner.

53:37

No, No, yeah, I say do

53:39

you do? Then what I'm asking is do you have to work

53:41

on that? Yes? Absolutely, Yeah, because

53:43

it's a discomfort. Yes, it's a discomfort

53:45

that I have to work on, which is, well, I

53:48

don't know why I'm here, I don't know what my

53:50

purpose is. And then and

53:52

then sometimes my way of talking to myself

53:54

is you never know. There may be something

53:56

here, and you have

53:58

to be open today if if if I live, if I sit

54:00

here and I'm close to that, then I may never discover anything.

54:03

If I'm open to it, maybe I'll discover something. Maybe

54:05

I won't. How do you find the balance between

54:08

knowing when to walk

54:11

away and when the opportunity

54:13

may present itself. I feel like

54:15

that's the greatest challenge in life, because sometimes

54:17

you find yourself at an

54:19

event, whatever it may be a work event of friends,

54:22

whatever it may be. You go, ah, man, i'm not having fun

54:24

here. I'm not having a good time. I'm not. And then as

54:26

you say the one idea, maybe hey, stay

54:29

in this discomforts and what

54:31

may come from it is something special,

54:34

which oftentimes can happen. The

54:37

flip is true as well. I stayed there for

54:39

too long. I stayed in that relationship for too long. I

54:41

stayed at that job for too long. I stayed

54:43

in that environment for too long. It

54:45

was discomfit, and I

54:48

thought I was going to get something out of it. I often hear people

54:50

saying that even you know, they'll they'll

54:52

you know, friends, colleagues, strangers,

54:55

Sometimes I'll meet they'll say, yeah,

54:58

but I've just I've been

55:00

doing it for so long now and I just feel

55:02

like maybe there's there's there's something and you

55:04

know. And then I will say and

55:07

I don't know if even if if I'm right, So I go, maybe

55:10

the lesson you're learning is when to walk

55:12

away or how to walk But I don't

55:14

even know this myself. You know, you

55:16

may leave the thing that that's makes me uncomfortable

55:19

because of that, you have a certain er bit of experience

55:21

totally, and you go, oh, that's why I left,

55:23

because this was supposed to happen. You were always confirmed

55:26

the confirmation bias absolutely, or you stay

55:28

and then something happens and you go like, ah, I was always supposed

55:30

to stay. So how do you how do you? How do you know?

55:32

Or do you accept the fact that you don't know? I think that's I

55:34

think you literally just answer you to

55:36

us on the our journey, all right, just yeah, yeah,

55:39

no, No, You're spot on. You don't know, you don't

55:41

know, right, like, and you can only you

55:44

can. I think it's also a matter of time,

55:46

right I think if I was and this is again

55:48

personal, but there's a difference

55:50

between like if we got here on this beautiful

55:52

setup that we have that you're admiring and you're saying you like

55:54

the energy, and how I do too. If

55:57

we got here on Friday, which was when

55:59

we first started filming here, if

56:01

I didn't like it on Friday, if I didn't like

56:03

the energy, and I could tell the guests in like the energy,

56:06

I would have shifted the room immediately because

56:08

I'm not going to wait around. If I'm

56:10

clear on something or I'm sensing it.

56:13

I think jobs are harder because

56:16

they probably exactly and so

56:18

I think when things are tied to your survival, we

56:21

tend to spend longer in them than we probably

56:24

should because that safety

56:26

again and security is so tied

56:28

to that. And I think that's why relationships,

56:30

as you've rightly pointed out homes,

56:33

like I was just talking my uncle and aunt,

56:35

like, you know, my grandparents

56:37

have passed away. They've moved on, and

56:40

you know they've been wanting to move home, they've said

56:42

for many, many years, but now they don't.

56:45

They live in London and they have a house and

56:47

they want to they want to move to a different

56:50

environment they've always wanted. But

56:53

now they're like, no, no, but all our memories in this

56:55

house, right, And so there's that, there's that familiarity,

56:58

and they're like, no, I don't want to leave, even though I don't

57:00

love this house as a structure

57:02

and as a space, I don't want to leave.

57:05

And I think that's what we do with people. Yeah, but

57:07

I guess that's a good question for you that you've

57:09

you've obviously had to find home again and again you've

57:12

continued to find it in yourself, Like how

57:14

have you let go of previous identities

57:17

and personalities and are

57:19

you because that's where we started. Like

57:22

I think I've had to do that a lot of times, Like

57:25

even when you said Monk, and I always say, well, I'm not anymore.

57:27

And the reason I say that is because I had

57:29

to let go of so many parts

57:32

of that identity that don't

57:34

serve me anymore. There are lots of parts of that identity

57:36

that serve me massively, there are

57:38

lots of parts of that identity that don't serve me anymore.

57:42

Same with same with anything,

57:44

like any work I've done. So I guess

57:46

today when you're deciding who you want to be.

57:49

One of the things I've taken away from this episode

57:52

for sure I'm talking to you, and I've genuinely enjoyed talking

57:54

to you is we know you're a very

57:56

smart, intellectual, thoughtful person

57:58

about what's happening in the world world. But what

58:01

I find really beautiful and refreshing is that

58:03

today you're doing the same things internally

58:06

on your inner world. Has that always

58:08

been a habit? You even said today when

58:10

you walked in before we even started recording, you were

58:12

like day, when I've been on all day, I need to just reflect

58:15

and decompress and think about stuff.

58:18

Has that always been a habit? Is there a method

58:20

you use, is there an approach or

58:23

is it just something you naturally just go into

58:25

the inner world. Although I'm not particularly

58:27

religious, I would have to

58:29

say growing up religious installed

58:32

within me the idea that I could have conversations

58:34

with myself and they were necessary

58:37

in order for me to process what

58:40

I was going through. You know, That's

58:43

what prayer is, in my opinion. It's

58:45

a conversation that you are having

58:48

multiple times a day. You are remembering,

58:50

you are thinking, you are discussing, you are

58:52

exposing your vulnerabilities, you are whatever

58:54

it may be you

58:56

are you're doing in doing

58:59

that As a little child, you know, getting on

59:01

my knees and praying. One

59:03

of my favorite lessons

59:06

that my mom taught me was that

59:09

your relationship with God is your relationship

59:11

with God. You know, she if I was in

59:13

trouble, she wouldn't say to me,

59:15

pray in front of me, let me hear you pray. No,

59:17

She'd be like you and go and pray. And

59:20

so what I am grateful for in that experience

59:23

was that my relationship with God

59:25

was then always my relationship with God.

59:28

It was my conversation. It wasn't performative.

59:31

It wasn't I remember

59:33

as a little kid, she's like asking

59:36

random questions. You know. I'd go to bed and I'd

59:38

be like, oh god, a man,

59:40

why do I break things all the time? Why?

59:43

I don't know what it is? Like, I

59:45

mean, you were there with me, I don't know why. Why

59:47

don't you stop me? Sometimes? Like you know, you

59:49

never stop me. I'll just be there as a kid, and

59:51

I would I don't want to break things. But then I broke

59:54

it and I knew it was going to break. And

59:56

now Mom's angry, and please

59:58

try and make it not as angry. But I'd have these conversations

1:00:01

and I would feel different afterwards.

1:00:03

I would feel better. I feel like I processed

1:00:05

something. And that

1:00:08

is an element of prayer that I think a lot of people take

1:00:10

for granted. Is that

1:00:13

processing of the

1:00:15

information that's oftentimes just running

1:00:17

away in your head, just rarely

1:00:19

running away in your head. In that

1:00:22

I just try and ask questions.

1:00:24

I let's tell people, you know, I go

1:00:27

like, I don't know. If I don't think I'm smart, I think

1:00:29

I'm I think I am

1:00:31

more and more confident in being

1:00:34

an idiot to be honest with you.

1:00:36

You know, I have friends

1:00:39

who I consider smart because I can ask

1:00:41

them about anything, you know. I have friends who know

1:00:43

about, you know, quantum

1:00:46

gravity and whatever it is, space

1:00:48

books. I always got, like you're reading spacebooks again.

1:00:51

I have friends who know about, you know, the deepest

1:00:54

trenches of football history. I

1:00:56

know friends who they're

1:00:58

smart in my opinion, but I'm

1:01:00

proud to say I'm an idiot. And

1:01:03

so when you let go of that, sometimes

1:01:06

what I find is I I then enjoy asking

1:01:09

questions. Yeah, you know, I and

1:01:11

most of my work, that's what I'm doing, is I'm asking questions.

1:01:13

As a comedian, I'm asking questions of how

1:01:16

we live in society. Why do we accept certain

1:01:18

things the way we do? And I think it's funny that we do. And

1:01:20

have you ever noticed how? And that's what a lot of comedians

1:01:23

do. They're asking a question about

1:01:25

something that everybody accepts as the norm. You

1:01:27

know. I do it in my job on the Daily Show. I

1:01:29

ask questions about how people see

1:01:31

politics and why they see politics, and you

1:01:33

know, whatever it may be. I ask questions,

1:01:36

you know. I remember one day someone

1:01:38

said to me, some random

1:01:40

person who said to me it's like, oh, it's crazy. You know, you came

1:01:42

to this country and you know, as a Democrat, you

1:01:44

probably say, whoa, wait, what do you mean as a democrat?

1:01:47

In my country, we don't have that. Yeah, in

1:01:49

many political parties, we're not forced

1:01:52

into a binary system that's already.

1:01:54

You don't ask a question, you made an assumption, you

1:01:56

know. And so even that has helped me. Where

1:01:58

I come from, there is not just this or

1:02:00

that. Yeah, in America's it has

1:02:02

like a very very play hitting vibe

1:02:05

to it. It's like, look what that party is doing. I look at that and

1:02:07

it's like, yeah, but what you know what I mean, if you're voting

1:02:09

for these things, shouldn't you be concerned about what you're going

1:02:11

for? Wow to

1:02:14

your party? Yeah, you know. And so

1:02:16

but as a comedian, I'm going like, where are the jokes.

1:02:18

I'll follow the jokes. I'll tell you that much, because that's

1:02:20

what my purposes in that moment. Yea. And

1:02:23

this goes to everything I do in life. You know, I've been lucky

1:02:25

enough to work on different projects like yourself. You know,

1:02:27

I work in tech and work with Microsoft

1:02:30

and things. Funny that I remember the

1:02:32

presidence of the company one of the city's like, we're going to call

1:02:34

you the chief questions off for stuff that's

1:02:36

so good because I've been lucky, and you know, I

1:02:39

love tech, and a lot of tech is asking

1:02:41

questions. A lot of what I do in

1:02:43

life is enjoying asking questions

1:02:46

and becoming less afraid of

1:02:48

how stupid you may seem or feel

1:02:51

asking the question. Yeah, that's

1:02:53

oftentimes what I see with kids. The

1:02:56

reason they learn as quickly as they do, it's not just

1:02:58

because of their brains, but I feel

1:03:00

like it's because they don't have an idea of who they

1:03:02

all aren't supposed to be, and so they

1:03:04

ask questions, and they ask questions, and they

1:03:06

ask questions, and they ask questions, and they ask questions and they

1:03:08

ask questions, and so what happens is

1:03:11

a they get answers, but be they

1:03:13

discover that the people they're asking the questions off sometimes

1:03:16

don't even have the answer. They just assumed an idea

1:03:18

or the way, you know, the way the world was. And

1:03:21

I often remind myself that

1:03:24

if if I become too tied

1:03:26

to the idea of being smart or

1:03:29

being informed or knowing, then

1:03:31

I'm trapped. I would rather say

1:03:34

I try to be smart. I try to be informed.

1:03:37

But if there's one thing I know, I am, well,

1:03:39

it's an idiot, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I enjoy

1:03:42

it, you know, because then I can be the smartest

1:03:44

idiot you've ever met, and I can be the most informed

1:03:46

idiot you've ever met. And I'm fine with that because

1:03:48

I'm just trying to

1:03:50

be the most natural me. That's

1:03:53

a that's a good identity. One

1:03:55

thing I noticed about the way you ask questions in

1:03:57

our interview when you interview me, but also today, and

1:04:00

something I appreciate and there is it's

1:04:02

rare as I think most people. When

1:04:05

you were saying, like someone assumed you're a democrat, I

1:04:07

think most people ask questions

1:04:10

in order to either agree or disagree

1:04:13

with what comes out the other person's mouth.

1:04:16

But we ask our best questions

1:04:18

when we simply ask to learn

1:04:21

and infer. And so now it's not asking

1:04:24

to see whether we are on the same page.

1:04:26

You're just asking to know, because

1:04:29

I think what we often do is we ask a question

1:04:31

and even if the base answer kind

1:04:33

of sounds similar, we go, oh, we're on the same page, like

1:04:35

oh me, and you you know, we're like we have the same

1:04:38

values, and it's like, well, no, we don't. We just

1:04:40

haven't dug deep enough. And I think

1:04:42

we're often not patient. And I think that's why in

1:04:44

so many relationships, in our lives and everywhere

1:04:46

what you said, you said, a friend is someone who

1:04:49

I know how they'd be in most situations.

1:04:52

And I think when you quickly go oh, yeah, yeah, we

1:04:54

have the same values, we have the same belief system, that's

1:04:58

often incorrect because we just

1:05:00

haven't asked enough questions to infer because

1:05:02

we really want to feel that hidden

1:05:05

us. Yeah that does. Actually

1:05:07

I feel like that when you ask questions. And so I'm

1:05:10

throwing that back at you, saying when you ask questions. So

1:05:12

going back to what we were talking about about

1:05:14

being an outsider, being an insider, where do I find

1:05:16

a home? Where do I find familiar familiarity? You

1:05:19

are familiar with this to a certain degree because

1:05:22

of moving out of the UK, going

1:05:24

to India, you know, going on that journey, and then

1:05:26

moving from then then coming to America. It's another

1:05:29

one thing that happens to you when

1:05:32

you leave home is

1:05:35

that you have to then either find

1:05:38

home or you have to understand

1:05:40

why this is home, or

1:05:42

you have to become comfortable in a

1:05:44

new space so that it will be your

1:05:47

new home. And

1:05:50

the best way to do that is by understanding. Is

1:05:52

what I find oftentimes

1:05:54

you aren't forced to understand if

1:05:57

you are in the majority,

1:05:59

If the norm is your world, you're

1:06:02

fine. Yeah. If everyone has your accents,

1:06:05

well, then you don't need to understand another accent.

1:06:08

If everybody is your skin color, you

1:06:10

don't need to understand another skin color. Everybody's

1:06:12

your culture, if everybody is your language, if everybody's

1:06:14

your you know, socio economic class,

1:06:17

whatever it may be, then you

1:06:19

don't need to understand. And

1:06:21

so what I've grown

1:06:23

up with because I grew up with a black

1:06:25

woman pass a woman being my mother,

1:06:28

white man swissman being my father,

1:06:31

family mixed country, broken

1:06:34

up, separated because of class, because of

1:06:36

race. Predominantly, I

1:06:39

found myself often having to understand

1:06:42

whatever it was language, culture, music,

1:06:44

food, I did I have to understand. And

1:06:48

what I've found is

1:06:50

that is often the fastest

1:06:53

path to home is

1:06:55

just understanding. You

1:06:58

know, hammock is a

1:07:00

terrible bed unless you understand how to sleep

1:07:02

in it. And I think

1:07:04

the same goes for everyone and everything. Foreign

1:07:07

country doesn't feel like home until you understand

1:07:10

the language, and then all of a sudden

1:07:12

things start to work. Yeah, you know,

1:07:14

so when I ask a question of you, as

1:07:17

Jay, I genuinely do it to understand, you

1:07:19

know, because you know with

1:07:21

you, I agree, and I'm genuine trying to understand

1:07:24

more because the things I may disagree with, Funny

1:07:26

enough, more is like how I'm living my life, and I'm trying

1:07:28

to understand more about like how you see and then how do I

1:07:30

you know, it's not to agree or disagree, but more to be like, oh I needn't

1:07:33

understand this. And then sometimes it'll

1:07:35

be with people where I don't agree with them, So I want

1:07:37

to understand. I see the world and it

1:07:39

seems so clear to me. Can you explain why

1:07:41

you don't see what I'm seeing? Yeah? You

1:07:44

know, that's that's oftentimes

1:07:46

what plagues me as as a person is I

1:07:48

think we live in a world now where there

1:07:51

are fewer and fewer experiences

1:07:54

that we all relate to or that we've all

1:07:56

gone through, and so wild

1:08:00

it's great for individualism, and it's great

1:08:02

for us, you know, living in our

1:08:04

own niche, it has robbed us of

1:08:06

a collective understanding. And so whether

1:08:08

it's in politics or whether it's in society or whatever

1:08:10

it is. You know, I think it's healthy to disagree,

1:08:14

Like you know, Jay, I don't think that that's that, But

1:08:18

it's another thing to say, you know, that's

1:08:20

my parking. No, that's my parking, versus

1:08:23

that's my parking. What parking? Wait,

1:08:26

you don't see a parking. Well. Now we're

1:08:28

in a bigger and that's why I feel like society is

1:08:30

moving towards as as

1:08:33

everything, entertainment, social media, all these things

1:08:35

become more niche. I think we're losing that collective

1:08:37

space to be in. And so because I've

1:08:40

always been outside, because I've

1:08:42

never been part of I've

1:08:44

always been forced to understand why

1:08:46

do you do that? Why do you say that? How do you eat this?

1:08:49

You know? So, when I'm in India

1:08:51

and I'm eating and I go, okay, can you help me, help

1:08:54

me understand why you use your hand the way you do? What are

1:08:56

you trying to? Okay? Great chopsticks? For the first

1:08:58

time, I have to all these things

1:09:00

as opposed to assuming or

1:09:02

even not being willing to. So

1:09:04

maybe that's why I ask a question the way I do is

1:09:07

because I just don't

1:09:09

understand why you see the world the way you do, and

1:09:12

once I do, I now get

1:09:14

to hold two truths. I

1:09:16

get to see how you see the world. I

1:09:18

get to know how I see the world, and

1:09:21

I may augment my way

1:09:23

of seeing it, or I'll be able to help

1:09:25

you understand why I see it the way I do because

1:09:27

I now understand yours. I don't think I can

1:09:29

do that if I if I don't ask. Absolutely,

1:09:32

That's exactly what I'm trying to say, is that

1:09:35

when I was saying learned, that's what I mean. Understand,

1:09:37

Like you're asking to learn, You're asking to

1:09:39

understand. There's not an asking

1:09:41

to say, yes, we're the same or nowhere not

1:09:43

the same. And I've

1:09:46

read somewhere when when I was looking at this interview

1:09:48

about how you were saying like, because you've never felt

1:09:51

of something, you've always felt outside, you've

1:09:53

always been able to see the full picture. And

1:09:55

I was literally just saying this today that I

1:09:58

grew up in a home where my par 's

1:10:00

really agreed on anything, and

1:10:03

I was always the mediator. Interesting,

1:10:05

and so I would sit and listen to my mom

1:10:07

and I would understand how she felt,

1:10:10

and then I'd sit and listen to my dad and I always had

1:10:12

an equal level of love and respect

1:10:14

for them from their individual

1:10:16

relationship with me, even though collectively they

1:10:19

didn't they didn't add it together. And I found

1:10:21

that when I read that about you, I

1:10:24

was wanting to ask you about it because I was like, that's

1:10:26

where I feel happier, learning

1:10:29

about people and trying to understand people,

1:10:32

because I could see both my mom and dad

1:10:34

were right in so many ways, Like I would

1:10:36

sit with my mom and be like, how does dad not see

1:10:39

that? And I would sit with Dad and be like how does mom

1:10:41

not see that? Like how are we missing

1:10:43

this part of the picture? And I felt miserably

1:10:45

at trying to help the situations. But

1:10:48

I think that's partly why I do what I do today, because

1:10:50

so much of me was exposed to different

1:10:53

opinions. So when I when

1:10:55

I read that about you, I was like, I'd

1:10:59

love to know how did you deal

1:11:01

with that feeling? Like how did you deal with

1:11:04

the idea? And I know you're saying it flippantly

1:11:06

in conversation, but like, how did you deal with the

1:11:08

pressure and the idea that you failed

1:11:11

to reconcile? What was happening

1:11:13

between the two of them? I think two me years

1:11:16

to accept that and to feel

1:11:18

that way, because I think when you're a kid, it's what you said,

1:11:20

you just accept that this is normality. So when

1:11:22

I was a kid, I didn't even think of it. So this is normal.

1:11:24

Parents don't get along. I want to help my mom

1:11:27

out. I'm a good son. I want to help my dad out. You

1:11:29

know, we're figuring it out. And i'd probably say

1:11:31

I spent a good part of like at

1:11:33

least my adult life, so say from well,

1:11:36

maybe not even adult, maybe since I was ten, maybe

1:11:38

from ten to twenty one, like probably eleven years

1:11:40

trying to fix that and trying to think

1:11:42

I could fix that or that we could improve it. And

1:11:45

while things got better. Sorry, just

1:11:47

ye to your point, because

1:11:50

you were trying to create the safety because as a child,

1:11:52

I feel like there are a few things that make

1:11:54

you feel less safe than your two

1:11:56

parental figures. You know. Sorry,

1:11:58

but carry on. No, no, no, it's interesting. I'm just saying, going

1:12:01

back to the safety that you're saying. You're trying to make

1:12:04

your walls because love didn't work. It didn't

1:12:06

It didn't matter how many Valentine's Days there

1:12:08

were, It didn't matter how many romantic gestures. It didn't

1:12:10

matter saying I love you or a love letter,

1:12:12

but it was safety. Yeah, And so I was

1:12:15

trying that probably for a good eleven years, and then I

1:12:17

think when I went off to the monastery,

1:12:19

was still there in my heart. And then I think while I was there,

1:12:21

I was like, Okay, I have to let go of this because

1:12:24

it's not my responsibility,

1:12:26

it's not my ability. I

1:12:29

don't have the powers to fix this, and

1:12:32

that's okay, and that if

1:12:34

I'm able to let go of this,

1:12:37

then not only would things improved there,

1:12:39

I can help people who want to be helped as

1:12:41

well. And I think that was a whole,

1:12:43

like, probably like a fifteen year journey to

1:12:46

get to that, because otherwise you hold

1:12:48

it as your like, your like

1:12:50

responsibility, like this is my job almost.

1:12:53

And I think that's what many of us have done,

1:12:55

is we have been

1:12:59

burdened with and oftentimes

1:13:01

subconsciously a job or

1:13:03

a role that our parents didn't realize

1:13:05

they were burdening us with. Wow, you know, oftentimes

1:13:08

I find it so interesting how the

1:13:11

loudest parents who aren't good at reading a room

1:13:13

will have the most shy child, you

1:13:16

know, and and then the parents who aren't good at being

1:13:18

outgoing, and they'll have kids who are

1:13:20

running and screaming and greeting everybody and talking

1:13:22

to them because there's this interesting thing

1:13:25

that happens in nature where I feel like, you

1:13:27

know, the child tries to correct for

1:13:30

what the parent may be lacking. Wow,

1:13:32

you know. And it's

1:13:35

it's really fascinating that you say that, Yeah, because

1:13:37

what happens is, over time, you

1:13:39

get to an age where then you have to take

1:13:43

off you know, that armor, take off that cape,

1:13:45

take off that that designation, and

1:13:49

understand that now you've

1:13:51

lived that, you've gained the tools from it. It's become

1:13:53

a lot of who you are today, but

1:13:55

you have to let it go. And that that I find

1:13:57

is terrifying, because

1:14:00

the only thing scarier than accepting who

1:14:03

we are is accepting

1:14:06

that we don't know who we are going

1:14:08

to be when we let go of the things that

1:14:10

I've made us who we are today. Yeah, And that's

1:14:12

that not knowing as simple as leaving

1:14:15

a party early. It's that same

1:14:17

feeling of discomfort of like, did

1:14:19

I make the right choice if I stayed here?

1:14:21

Would it have? If I kept that role? Would

1:14:24

it have? And Yeah,

1:14:26

I was talking to a client the other day and she

1:14:29

said something really interesting. She was saying, I just

1:14:32

never grew up with an opinion. She goes, I've

1:14:34

just never really had an opinion. And

1:14:37

I've known her for some time, so it was a fairly it

1:14:39

was a progressed

1:14:42

conversation. It wasn't the first time and

1:14:45

we were talking about it. She was saying, well, I've never really had an opinion

1:14:47

on this or that, and so when

1:14:49

people ask me what I want to do, or when my partner

1:14:51

asked me what I want to do, I kind of like go along

1:14:54

with it. But now I'm starting the question like am

1:14:56

I living my life or someone else's. And

1:14:59

it was really interesting because we were really getting

1:15:01

into it, and I started

1:15:04

talking to her about her parents and family dynamic,

1:15:07

and she said something really phenomenal to me. She said

1:15:09

that my brother

1:15:12

and my dad always used to argue

1:15:15

and I was the peacemaker, and

1:15:18

she goes, when I felt pain, I never

1:15:21

shared it because it would create more

1:15:23

complexity, and so I

1:15:26

accept that. She came to the conclusion

1:15:29

that the reason I don't have an opinion is

1:15:31

because it disturbs the peace. And

1:15:33

when I don't have an opinion, the piece is kept

1:15:36

and I was. You know, those are the kind of things that we're

1:15:38

saying, Like we take the designation of peacemaker,

1:15:41

you take the role in the designation of whatever

1:15:43

I was. Sometimes the comedians

1:15:46

take on the role of being a comedian because

1:15:48

you kind of get her and the laugh and everyone, you

1:15:51

know. And so I think these roles that

1:15:53

you're talking about are really it's a really beautiful

1:15:55

way that you said it. That we adopt

1:15:57

this job and this role and this I

1:16:00

think I think we do, and I often

1:16:02

think sometimes it is necessary.

1:16:05

Of course, I think it may be evolutionary

1:16:09

whatever it is. You know. Again,

1:16:11

That's why I don't go to it's bad, it's good.

1:16:14

I go it is. It just is, And

1:16:16

in understanding it, I

1:16:19

realize there's nothing wrong with it being

1:16:21

as long as you know when to let it go, you

1:16:24

know. I often think that about seat

1:16:26

belts when I'm in a call on a

1:16:28

plane. Sometimes I

1:16:31

forget that I'm wearing the seatbelt. I love wearing my seat belts,

1:16:33

especially on a plane. I buckle it long before

1:16:35

they tell I'm like in strapped. I

1:16:37

don't know what it is. I love it even

1:16:40

when you see it go off, that you know when they'll

1:16:42

turn the seatbelt like on I'm like, what do you mean on

1:16:44

it? The whole flight, I will be wearing

1:16:46

the seatbelt, thank you very much. And

1:16:49

what will happen? Sometimes I'm so comfortable as been the whole

1:16:51

time. When we land, we chill, I don't rush

1:16:53

to get my bags any of that, and then I'll

1:16:55

stand and the seatbelt will pull me and it's

1:16:57

always, like I love to myself, it always happens because

1:16:59

it's because it's really down and it just

1:17:02

you know, as I jump, I was like, pulls me back

1:17:04

down, ias giggle and I unbuckle

1:17:06

it. And I found myself

1:17:08

thinking the one that I was like, it's amazing, how this this

1:17:11

device is brilliant. It saves your

1:17:14

life. You know, you know, car crash, you know you're

1:17:16

you know, plane crash on a runway or whatever. I don't know how

1:17:18

much you'll save you a big one, but still, you know, but this

1:17:21

thing is it holds you. Wow, it's

1:17:23

helping you stay in tech. It's helping you stay

1:17:25

in the place you need to be in. But if

1:17:28

you don't know how to let it go when you need to, now

1:17:31

you're trapped. And so

1:17:33

that's what I'm constantly trying to work on,

1:17:35

which is so hard to It's like, man,

1:17:38

I go like, okay, all right, my sa my

1:17:40

safety belt, my seat belt, all right. It

1:17:43

might be my personality. It

1:17:45

might be the way I see the world. It

1:17:47

might be how I've learned to interact

1:17:49

with us. It might be anything how I

1:17:51

eat, how I think, what I do, what I don't when I love

1:17:53

what I wore, all these things and I

1:17:56

get that, and I'm always just try

1:17:58

and ask myself, I, okay, all right, is this

1:18:00

still your seat belts or has

1:18:03

it now become a trapping? And

1:18:05

I always just have to ask myself that question.

1:18:08

It's extremely difficult, you know. You

1:18:11

just go around and around, and sometimes I do you know, yeah,

1:18:13

a lot of the time, I'll i'll, I'll be chilly.

1:18:16

Sometimes I don't think I can watch

1:18:18

Harry Potter the same again, I don't. I

1:18:20

don't think I can be on a plane the same again.

1:18:23

Like, yeah, I love

1:18:25

how you think. I think. It's so refreshing

1:18:28

to hear that, And I the biggest

1:18:31

thing I'm taking about this is just this ability to

1:18:33

really question our lives, question things.

1:18:36

I think. I think that is the purpose

1:18:38

of life is to start asking questions,

1:18:41

and what I loved about at

1:18:43

least at least the scriptures I started on the Eastern side.

1:18:45

They're all Q and a's, Like, they're all cute question

1:18:48

and answer. None of them are like talking

1:18:50

or lecturing. Ord

1:18:53

is, Yeah, yeah, they're all Q and a's, And I

1:18:55

think that was a big part of how we were trained to believe

1:18:57

that all inquiry was the

1:19:00

birth of wisdom. Like it had to be an inquiry,

1:19:02

it had to be a conversation. It couldn't be

1:19:04

a lecture or a seminar.

1:19:07

And you know, I think when i'd sit

1:19:09

with you, and whenever I've said with you, and whenever

1:19:11

I've watched you, which I've admired you for so long, I

1:19:13

think that the quality of questioning

1:19:16

is really what we should be more focused on than the

1:19:19

result and the answers. As you were saying earlier that

1:19:22

if we asked questions we were actually interested

1:19:24

in knowing the answer to, we'd actually

1:19:26

listen to the answer. But Trevor,

1:19:29

we end the show with two segments. These are fast

1:19:31

segments. Okay, you've been more

1:19:33

than generous with your time. So the first segment is

1:19:36

called the Many Sides

1:19:38

to Us. Okay, and so this you

1:19:40

have to answer in one word, and

1:19:42

there's five questions. So are you ready? I'm

1:19:45

ready? Okay. What is one word to

1:19:47

describe what someone would say about

1:19:49

you meeting you for the first time? Friendly?

1:19:53

Friendly? Yeah, friends and friendly

1:19:55

two different things, but friendly? Okay? Question

1:19:57

number two? What is one word to describe

1:19:59

what someone would say about you that knows you extremely

1:20:02

well? Consistent? Nice?

1:20:05

Okay? Question number three? What is

1:20:07

one word you'd used to describe yourself? Mercurial?

1:20:11

Okay, all right, now I'm gonna have to ask you expand

1:20:13

like that that I was not expecting that word

1:20:15

that is a very yeah, tell me why that word?

1:20:17

Like? You can now go off one word like

1:20:20

I'm consistent in the

1:20:22

fact that I'm also mercurial. Part of it. Funny

1:20:24

enough, I think was not

1:20:26

created by but as as somebody

1:20:29

who has ADHD, it took

1:20:31

me a long time to learn in life what that did to my brain,

1:20:34

how that affected how I process time, an

1:20:36

idea, a thought, an

1:20:39

object, any any inquiry that

1:20:41

I would have could be

1:20:44

in some way, shape or form affected by that. And

1:20:46

I think, funny enough, there's a there's a huge misunderstanding

1:20:49

sometimes I actually, you know, hate

1:20:52

how we've created a lot of the conversations

1:20:55

around the mind is the best way to put it, you

1:20:57

know, because because of the some of the terms

1:21:00

have become so wrote and some of

1:21:02

the ideas have become so simple when

1:21:04

they're not. Um. I

1:21:06

remember when I was young and I was diagnosed

1:21:08

with ADHD. They made they made it seem like you

1:21:12

can't pay attention,

1:21:14

when in fact it's the fact that you can't choose what

1:21:16

to pay your attention to. Very

1:21:18

good at paying attention and so wow,

1:21:20

wow, yeah, it's a very nuance,

1:21:23

subtle. Yeah, it makes a big difference. It makes

1:21:25

a big difference. And so what

1:21:27

what what's been wonderful for me in life is

1:21:30

learning again how to be grateful

1:21:33

for how I've dealt with something, not

1:21:37

even looking at it through the lens of good or

1:21:39

bad, but just going it is and

1:21:41

then understanding it like that, you know. And that's

1:21:44

what I mean by I think we've really hurt ourselves

1:21:46

in society with with how we've had some conversations

1:21:48

because we've made it seem

1:21:51

bad or good as opposed to understanding

1:21:55

because it may not be the same as the

1:21:57

norm. You know, so is a

1:21:59

short person good or bad? No, they're

1:22:01

just short. And the reason we say short

1:22:03

is because they're short relative to the general

1:22:05

population, the same way someone who's tall is tall

1:22:08

relative to the general population.

1:22:10

Now, if you're tall, you may be bumping your head

1:22:13

a lot more than other people. If you're short, you

1:22:15

may not be reaching the things that people have put

1:22:17

at an average height. I think

1:22:19

the same thing goes for the mind. If you're

1:22:21

blessed enough to have a mind or a

1:22:23

mentality that is of the norm, most

1:22:26

things will work for you, and most things will make sense

1:22:28

in life. If your mind isn't,

1:22:30

that's why they use divergent. It doesn't

1:22:33

mean there's anything wrong, but you need

1:22:35

to understand how your mind will react

1:22:37

to a world that has been designed in a certain

1:22:40

way. And so that

1:22:43

is why I've learned to understand and accept.

1:22:45

I go, I'm mercurial again. Was

1:22:47

a friend who taught me that, and I loved it once

1:22:49

I understood it. First I was I was like, no, I'm not,

1:22:52

I'm not. He's like, he's like, yeah, you're mercurial. And I was

1:22:54

like, first of all, explain the word yeah. And then he explained

1:22:56

it to me. I was like, I'm not that im and

1:22:58

then I realized I could could I could be two

1:23:00

things. I'm extremely consistent.

1:23:04

Anyone who needs me knows me, they know where to find

1:23:06

me, they know how I'll be. But I'm also mercurial

1:23:09

in that how I feel about this on a

1:23:11

day and how I feel about that's on a day may

1:23:13

be more extreme than somebody else's

1:23:15

range. And so in that again,

1:23:18

just the understanding and asking the questions of myself,

1:23:21

I then exist in a space where

1:23:23

I understand it. So it will be funny is sometimes I'll

1:23:26

meet people and they'll get distracted

1:23:28

and be like, oh, sorry, that's my ADHD and that's not

1:23:31

what it is. But yeah whatever,

1:23:34

you know that, like people have done this with everything. Oh I'm

1:23:36

sorry, I'm OCD. It's like I don't okay,

1:23:39

yeah that's not what it Yeah. And so we have these very

1:23:42

limited understandings of these things.

1:23:45

Maybe and we've also created an idea

1:23:48

of them being a bad, correct,

1:23:51

good whatever. It's like, No, it's

1:23:53

just understanding the same

1:23:56

thing we do with glasses. At some point near

1:23:58

Sides said, far Side said, I wear glasses now, and

1:24:00

then at some point it was just that's what it is. Yeah,

1:24:02

I think we have a long way to go in

1:24:05

the conversations we have around the mind, yes,

1:24:07

and getting us to the same place where when

1:24:09

you meet someone they can say that to

1:24:11

you and you now understand that,

1:24:13

oh I wear glasses, okay, great, yes,

1:24:16

you know, whereas I'm sure there was a point was like I

1:24:18

wear glasses, so you're blind. Now people

1:24:20

are just like, oh you do you wear glasses or you wear contacts?

1:24:22

Okay, cool, that's that's who

1:24:25

you are. Yeah, And I think that's what it is

1:24:27

that our vocabulary around the mind and

1:24:29

of psychology is very limited and your

1:24:31

spot on and one thing that you said that really

1:24:33

struck a Quarde was the idea that if the world is designed

1:24:35

for the average yea, then the challenges

1:24:37

that anyone outside of it feels broken. And

1:24:40

that's where I think we've gone wrong, where it's like there's

1:24:42

a weakness or a broken It's like, no, the world.

1:24:45

If the world was designed for right those

1:24:47

people, right, then we'd feel broken.

1:24:50

And it's just that the world has been designed for this few

1:24:52

people. If you created a new planet that was for

1:24:54

only people who had attain disposition,

1:24:59

then it would be a very different case. Yeah. No,

1:25:01

I love that. That's a that's a great

1:25:03

that's another whole two hour comp that's another Yeah,

1:25:07

we'll save it, all right. Question number four, what

1:25:09

is one word that if

1:25:11

someone didn't agree with you or like you, how would

1:25:13

they what would they say about you? Not like I'm not talking

1:25:15

about like an internet roll or stubborn? Stubborn?

1:25:18

Right? Okay, yeah there that's a good way. Yeah, yeah, that's

1:25:20

good. That makes sense. I like that, all right. Question number

1:25:22

five, what is the word that you're trying to embody

1:25:25

right now? Is there like a focus, a

1:25:27

presence with a particular characteristic

1:25:30

or value or believe? Mindful? Great?

1:25:33

All right, there's a great, there's a fantastic most people

1:25:35

struggle with. So you did? You hit

1:25:37

it out of the park. All right? These are the final five. These are easy,

1:25:39

one word to one sentence. What's the best advice

1:25:41

you've ever received? Never assume

1:25:44

it's a great piece of advice. Second question, what is the

1:25:46

worst piece of advice you've ever heard? Always

1:25:48

be yourself? That's

1:25:53

really all right times Yeah,

1:25:55

to be you don't just be yourself. People say they'll

1:25:58

relax, just be yourself. Yea las,

1:26:00

Yeah, you know when to be yourself

1:26:02

As a better piece of advice, so I can give you. That's

1:26:04

good. Question number three, what is

1:26:07

something you used to value that you no longer

1:26:09

value? Fame? So there was a

1:26:11

time when it was important and yeah,

1:26:14

well yeah, I think I I

1:26:16

thought that it would give me something

1:26:19

that I searched for my whole life, and

1:26:21

that was a certain sense of belonging.

1:26:24

No, because there's a there's a familiarity you have

1:26:27

with people when you see them. I never cared for through

1:26:29

the lens of like I'm better, No,

1:26:32

but I was like, oh man, everyone knows that person, everyone likes

1:26:34

that was and you know, here I was this kid and I grew

1:26:36

up alone for so long. I was like, oh, I'll

1:26:38

be familiar the word fame, you know

1:26:40

when you look at the root. And I was like, oh,

1:26:42

that that thing, I'll be familiar. And then

1:26:44

ironically, as I said, it jumps straight to your unfamiliar

1:26:47

and so then I realized. I was like, oh man, you

1:26:50

don't think that it will come from something,

1:26:53

but rather understand what you're trying to

1:26:55

achieve, and then you know, figure out

1:26:57

how you're trying to get there. That's beautiful. I

1:26:59

love that. Question number four, how would

1:27:01

you define your current purpose as

1:27:04

being a fertilizer four

1:27:07

everything and everyone I come into contact

1:27:09

with. I would hope to be somebody

1:27:12

who enriches the soil that I touch. I

1:27:14

would hope to be somebody who improves

1:27:18

somebody's life in the slightest of ways.

1:27:20

Whether it's helping you solve a problem, whether it's

1:27:23

giving you directions and the streets in New York, whether

1:27:25

it's making you laugh at a

1:27:27

show, you know, talking about politics,

1:27:30

whatever it may be. I would hope

1:27:32

to do what a good fertilizer does in

1:27:34

that it enables the soil

1:27:37

to be richer, It enables the plant to grow

1:27:39

taller, it it brings

1:27:42

all of the pieces together, you know,

1:27:44

it becomes it becomes a food,

1:27:46

it becomes it becomes a food

1:27:48

that creates more food. You know. It's

1:27:51

it's not a zero sum game. And

1:27:54

so I would say that that would probably be what

1:27:56

I'd like to focus on most right now, even for myself,

1:27:58

because fertilizer even makes self bigger. It

1:28:01

grows itself, you add more, multitu

1:28:03

it and it keeps ongoing. And so I think I think

1:28:05

even for me, you

1:28:07

know, I look to try and fertilize as much

1:28:10

as I can. I love that. That's one of my favorite

1:28:12

answers to that question we've ever had. All Right, fifth

1:28:14

and final question of the whole interview. If

1:28:17

you could create one law that everyone in the world

1:28:19

had to follow, what would it be? Everyone in the

1:28:21

world, right or creates a law that said

1:28:25

everyone everywhere in the world, randomly,

1:28:28

randomly, randomly, could

1:28:30

be given the

1:28:34

lowest person's bank

1:28:36

accounts like that, it

1:28:38

could be like that would be the law is that we do

1:28:41

this weird system where every whenever,

1:28:43

it may be every year, randomly,

1:28:45

the lowest person's bank account can

1:28:47

just go out and become everybody's bank account. Wow.

1:28:51

The reason I would do that is because I think

1:28:55

if we lived in a society where

1:28:59

more people felt like their fate was

1:29:01

tied to the least of us,

1:29:05

they would have a little more compassion

1:29:09

and think a little

1:29:11

more about how those people

1:29:13

may or may not be existing. And

1:29:15

that's why I say I wouldn't say anyone can't be rich. I'm

1:29:18

not saying that. I wouldn't say anyone can't make

1:29:20

as much money as they want. Oh, no, go ahead, we

1:29:22

should all be doing that, enjoy it, go for it. But

1:29:25

I would just want us all to know that the

1:29:27

lowest bank balance, the lowest amount

1:29:29

that someone has could randomly God,

1:29:32

and I wouldn't be to everyone. Yeah, it would

1:29:34

just have it. It would be like ten percent of the population. That's

1:29:36

what's going to happen. It's the law. Every

1:29:38

year ten percent of the population, your bank

1:29:41

balance becomes what the person with the least

1:29:43

amount has in that in the

1:29:45

in the world. And I just wonder how

1:29:47

we would live. I genuinely

1:29:49

would because, yeah,

1:29:52

I think sometimes and I

1:29:54

understand it. You know, capitalism, hyper

1:29:57

capitalism, you know this thing we've been tricked

1:29:59

into believing that in order for you to have, I

1:30:01

cannot have, as if trading didn't exist long

1:30:03

before. All of that has tricked

1:30:05

us into a world of believing that

1:30:08

mine is only mine and yours cannot

1:30:10

come with it. So I wonder what would

1:30:13

happen in that space. I think, even

1:30:15

myself, everyone would pay a lot more attenion. You

1:30:17

know, how much do you have? We need to get your balance up,

1:30:19

yeah, because I'm trying

1:30:21

to keep my life as comfortable as it is. Yeah,

1:30:24

And the feeling that it could be any of us, Yeah,

1:30:27

that will take it for granted, Jake, like it could

1:30:29

it could always be any of us. Luck

1:30:32

is the most random. You

1:30:35

can work as hard as you want luck as a huge factor.

1:30:37

You can be the best luck as a factor. You can be the worst

1:30:40

luck as a factor. So you know, it

1:30:42

really could be any one of us. And so I

1:30:44

don't take for granted that I'm lucky.

1:30:47

I work hard, I try, and you

1:30:50

know, I try and shape as much of the environment

1:30:52

that my luck will exist within. But I never

1:30:54

take for granted that I'm lucky.

1:30:57

Travel is a new thing. I learned about you today that

1:30:59

you don't just ask good questions, but you really

1:31:02

answering questions, and

1:31:05

that's where people don't by the way, right, Yeah,

1:31:08

thanks, thank you, thank

1:31:10

you. True, that's so special. Everyone

1:31:12

has been listening or watching wherever you are in the world.

1:31:15

I hope you appreciated that conversation as much

1:31:17

as I did. I hope you could see that we're genuinely

1:31:19

just having a good time and getting to know each other and learning

1:31:22

and going back and forth. But I think there were so

1:31:24

many great insights in this conversation, and I'd

1:31:27

love to see what you took away, So please do share

1:31:30

them wherever you're sharing, whether it's Instagram

1:31:32

or TikTok, or Twitter or wherever it is. I'd

1:31:34

love to hear what you learned, what you took away, what you

1:31:37

gathered from this conversation, what you collected,

1:31:40

what you questioned, right, I think that's the biggest

1:31:42

thing. What did you question? What is a question that you're

1:31:44

asking that you never asked before today? And

1:31:47

I want to give a big thank you to Trevor for showing up

1:31:49

and thank you doing all this time. And I

1:31:52

will admit, though I didn't do this just the goodest

1:31:54

of my heart. I came because I

1:31:56

remember seeing a clip of yours

1:31:59

many many, many many years ago,

1:32:01

and you talked about how we don't

1:32:03

know how to breathe. I

1:32:06

remember that. I remember even watching it. I was like sitting

1:32:10

at home, like

1:32:13

I don't know how to breathe. And

1:32:15

since then it's it's stuck with me. I was like, one day,

1:32:17

I'm gonna meet this guy and I'm going to ask him to

1:32:19

teach me how to breathe. We left to do that, I know. No, Yeah,

1:32:22

thank you, thank you, honestly,

1:32:24

no, thank you, man. I appreciate you the best. This is awesome.