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2:01

bluenile.com. Welcome

2:05

to this special Euro 2024 preview edition

2:07

of On the Continent.

2:10

Today we're continuing to look ahead

2:12

to this summer's football in Germany

2:14

and there is no better place

2:17

to end our previews than

2:19

with the host nation themselves.

2:21

Today Andy and I are

2:23

joined by ESPN's Bundesliga reporter

2:25

and OTC favourite Archie Rindtach

2:27

to gain insight into how

2:29

Germany are preparing to host

2:31

Europe's elite both on and

2:33

off the field. So

2:43

Archie, welcome. Thank

2:45

you. It's lovely to actually be

2:47

here with you in person.

2:51

I can touch Andy. Yeah

2:53

we were going to do that.

2:55

That's only for Patreons by the

2:57

way. We were going to do

2:59

it in Scotland but we think it would take it easy

3:01

on you to kick off. I appreciate it. The

3:04

Euros. Germany of course,

3:06

huge question mark for

3:08

some time now over this German national

3:10

team. There ain't what they used to

3:12

be or what we're used to them

3:15

being. The

3:17

controversy I suppose over Hansi

3:19

Flick's departure last year

3:21

made us all believe that

3:24

the House of Cards is falling down but they

3:27

seem to have picked up since then. I

3:29

think the all or nothing

3:31

documentary contributed to that when

3:34

the immortal video of Let's

3:36

Make Like the Geese came out.

3:39

I don't think that helped the whole image

3:42

of what Hansi Flick's

3:45

Germany was standing for and

3:48

the biggest problem that he

3:50

had was probably one

3:53

of his biggest strengths which was his closeness

3:55

to the players and having been a part

3:58

of the setup for so long. along

4:01

with Joachim Love having been his

4:03

right hand for

4:05

the 2014 World Cup, for example, but for so

4:07

many years and having been within that structure and

4:10

having had success with a lot of these players at

4:12

Bayern Munich, it created

4:15

and forged this loyalty

4:17

that he had to a lot of the

4:19

players. And the thing that Julian Nagelsmann

4:22

has done is being able to make

4:25

cold but good

4:27

decisions about, well, what do

4:29

I need for a good balance in this

4:31

squad and being able to cut

4:34

big names of the past

4:36

such as Leon Geretska, for

4:39

example, who would

4:42

have been expected a few years

4:44

ago to still be in the centre of

4:46

midfield there, but has probably paid the price

4:48

for playing too many different roles under

4:51

different coaches at Bayern and I

4:53

think has slowly lost his identity and

4:56

leaving out somebody like Matt Somels

4:58

who, despite being a

5:00

World Cup winner, is renowned

5:03

as being somebody who will

5:05

say what he thinks

5:07

in clear terms, but also

5:09

air that to

5:11

the media as he showed in

5:14

the week before the Champions League

5:16

final. So I think

5:18

that there is a much greater wave

5:20

of optimism than expected going into the

5:23

tournament now because of the success of

5:25

these two friendlies that they had against

5:27

the Netherlands and France in

5:29

March. So do you think ultimately,

5:32

Archie, this sort of accelerates the

5:34

Germany rebuild, the fact that they

5:36

have this home European Championship, because

5:38

this feeling that every team that

5:40

hosts a championship have is that

5:42

we have to get it right.

5:44

Not winning it is one thing,

5:47

totally disgracing yourself is

5:49

something else. You think Germany

5:51

don't sack coaches and they fired

5:54

Hansi Flick less than a year

5:56

before the European

5:58

Championship, hosting Championship

6:00

after that embarrassing home defeat

6:02

by Japan. You know,

6:04

he's gone by the next morning while the players were

6:06

still having breakfast. But

6:09

this had been building up over a number of

6:11

years. It's not all hanzi flick. There's a

6:13

gradual, gradual downward

6:16

turn from when they win the

6:18

2014 World Cup, really. And

6:20

you know, Russia 2018 should have been as bad as

6:22

it got, but wasn't. They

6:26

fell into the traps that are

6:29

very easy to fall into when you win

6:31

things is that people

6:34

then start maneuvering for

6:37

their share of the glory.

6:40

And there's these ideas of

6:42

who was exactly responsible for this when the

6:44

truth is that it was probably all of

6:46

them, but there's not enough space

6:48

for that in the media. For example,

6:51

I think that as

6:55

you say, it had been coming for

6:57

a while. And what also

6:59

accelerated it, I think, was the

7:02

downturn in Bayern Munich and the

7:05

success this season

7:07

of Bayer Leverkusen and Stuttgart with

7:09

a good core of German players who

7:12

had not really played that much of

7:14

a role. So the feeling is

7:16

it's needing to change, but it's not changing

7:18

quickly enough, maybe. Yeah. And

7:20

to just bring a bit of freshness because

7:22

there was this whole idea in Germany of

7:25

everyone is bored of, had

7:28

been bored of the German national team and

7:30

the characters in it, and no one was

7:32

really connecting to them. An

7:34

example of this was a mate

7:36

of mine who has no interest

7:39

in football, being

7:42

around my place. And

7:47

look, to put into context

7:49

how much they don't like

7:51

football, they were at Wembley

7:54

for an Ed Sheeran concert, don't judge,

7:56

last summer. And

7:59

I was saying, oh, well, Oh yeah, National Football

8:01

said, they play football there? I was like, right,

8:03

okay. I was like, mate, are

8:06

you kidding me? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:08

No, no, it's quite famous for football. Yeah,

8:10

yeah, you could say that. And I have

8:12

this like stack of German football magazines at

8:14

home, El Freunde, which

8:16

you'll probably know. And I

8:19

pulled out a copy of that and was like, oh

8:21

look, Lucas Pudowski, Bastian's French

8:23

Tiger. Are they still in the national team?

8:25

I was like, not

8:27

for a while, mate, actually. Not for a while.

8:30

But within that, it made me

8:32

think there's a greater point here,

8:34

which is if that is

8:36

their recognition of who's still in the national

8:38

team, then what impact have these players made

8:41

in the last 10 years? And

8:44

the answer is not much. That's the

8:46

thing we always forget about European championships

8:48

and World Cups, isn't it? It's not

8:50

just about people like us who sit around

8:52

and talk about football all the time. It's

8:54

about people who only really

8:56

have a passing interest in football being

8:58

swept up in it as well. And

9:00

that's where those good footballers become household

9:02

names, isn't it? That's it. And

9:06

this I think the excitement

9:08

is that people are

9:10

being introduced to fresher

9:12

faces now, whether it's somebody

9:15

like Maximilian Mittelstet, who

9:18

was relegated in 2023 with Hertha

9:23

and was sold to Stuttgart

9:25

for 450,000 euros and

9:29

didn't play for the first six

9:31

weeks of the season or so,

9:34

just wasn't quite deemed good enough,

9:36

and then has gone on this

9:39

amazing rocket-like journey

9:43

of being named by Uli Nagzmann as,

9:45

according to his parameters,

9:47

one of the best five

9:49

left-backs in the world. I'd

9:52

like to see what those parameters are just a little bit.

9:54

He has been good, but I'm just a little bit like,

9:57

that's quite rich. But I think that's a

9:59

good one. that those are the kind of stories that people

10:02

can get on board with also because people

10:04

have become, I think, even

10:06

I know Bayern Munich fans who have kind of become

10:08

weary of their success. Even last season,

10:11

one friend of mine said to

10:13

me, Nick, I can imagine there'll be maybe

10:16

one or two Bayern fans shouting that

10:18

he does not represent us. We

10:20

will always win. But he was like, no, he

10:22

was just, he didn't feel much even after they

10:24

won the title dramatically against Cologne. And I

10:26

think that that freshness

10:28

of having someone like Jonathan

10:30

Tarr, who's been so

10:33

central to Leverkusen success

10:35

and him coming through now,

10:38

Robert Andres, who has

10:41

this bad boy image,

10:43

which I think is

10:45

a tabloid way of saying, look, he has

10:47

a few tattoos and I beard. But

10:52

there's this there's this kind

10:54

of fresher image because these

10:56

players simply haven't been there before. And you can see on

10:58

their faces that they're excited to be

11:01

there and that there's this real kind of, yeah,

11:03

we'll muck in and we don't have our own

11:05

agenda. Our own agenda is only, well,

11:07

we would like to be here and contribute to the team.

11:09

And if we're not an 11, that's fine. And

11:12

that is a mentality that I think had been

11:14

missing from the German national team

11:16

for a while, because it was more this

11:18

expectation where like, well, I should be here.

11:21

The, the Matt's Hall's approach, shall we

11:24

say, and to an extent,

11:26

Leon Geretska. But I

11:29

think that Geretska

11:31

is a different is a different case.

11:34

And yeah, the point is

11:36

that this, those,

11:38

the Stuttgart block of Denis

11:40

Undav, Waldemar

11:42

Anton, Maximilian Mittellstät,

11:45

Alexander Nüber, that

11:47

they played such a good season against all the

11:49

odds. They weren't, they

11:51

were in the relegation playoff against

11:54

Hamburg in 2023. Not all

11:56

of those players were, but Waldemar Anton

11:59

was Chris Fuentes. Bürich, who's also in

12:01

there, was, and

12:04

for them to go finish second in the

12:06

Bundesliga. And that's the point, not

12:08

just playing, I don't

12:11

know, counter-attacking football. They

12:13

were playing teams off the park. They

12:15

were dominating them with names

12:17

that, these weren't household names. So

12:20

I think that helps to build,

12:22

has built the excitement in

12:25

what Germany describes as Fusbaldeutschland. There's

12:28

Fusbalde Germany, which kind of, you

12:30

know, is following all the stories. And then

12:33

there's the rest of Germany with my mate,

12:35

who kind of just will pop

12:37

along for the tournament and say, oh, okay, I

12:39

might get involved in that. But that's been the

12:41

challenge, has been for them to hook these people

12:43

in. But what

12:45

they've done is with

12:47

the PR ad campaign of releasing

12:49

the names, when they released the

12:51

squad names. And

12:54

that was controversial, wasn't it? Is that really cool?

12:56

It was. It was a bit, but

12:58

any time they do something which isn't, here's a list,

13:00

it's well, oh, you've

13:02

really pushed the boat out there. People

13:04

in football are, are

13:07

very conservative. But

13:09

you know, when it comes to how

13:11

open football really is. But

13:14

yeah, they did a, a

13:17

sparky campaign where some player, Nico

13:19

Schlottabec was announced on the news.

13:23

Somebody delivered this cake to

13:25

this grandma in Berlin with

13:28

Yonatan Tarr's face on it.

13:30

And was like, look, he's

13:32

in the squad. Ta-da. Radio

13:34

shows announced a big concert

13:37

for somebody I cannot remember that

13:40

Florian Witz was in the squad.

13:42

And it felt kind of nice. And I think

13:45

the problem with these things sometimes is that people

13:48

go, well, I didn't like it. And

13:50

these, was it aimed at you

13:53

though? And it wasn't probably.

13:55

And I think that's, that's the point of it is it

13:58

has been aimed at trying to. expand

14:00

things a bit and trying to be a little bit

14:02

more, yeah, we've made mistakes in the past and we're

14:04

trying to get more

14:06

people on board. So I didn't mind

14:09

it. When do you think that wave

14:11

of enthusiasm that you mentioned, perhaps

14:14

wave of excitement that you

14:16

mentioned, will turn into a

14:18

wave of expectation, maybe?

14:21

Will it be, do

14:23

they need to beat Scotland in the first match?

14:27

Decisively for the whole of Germany to

14:29

get behind the team and feel like

14:31

we are the host nation, we are

14:33

going to at

14:36

least present a decent show. There

14:39

needs to be a good performance as

14:41

well. I think if it's a... To

14:47

get your casual fans involved, there needs to

14:49

be a certain excitement, but also, as you

14:51

say, winning. The

14:54

real marker for excitement in

14:56

Germany, people still talk about

14:58

the Sommermerchen of 2006, the

15:00

summer fairy tale of when

15:02

they hosted the World Cup,

15:04

and how glorious a time

15:07

that was, and how people

15:10

were able to be really proud

15:12

about being German and wave a

15:14

flag without thinking about the historical...

15:19

...the rich echoes of the

15:21

past. And there's

15:23

been so much that's gone on in between,

15:26

I think about the rise of

15:28

the far right again in Germany

15:31

in the form of the Alternative

15:33

for Deutschland, the IFD party

15:36

in recent years, and there are some European

15:38

elections which are going to take place just

15:40

before the tournament as well, that

15:44

has cast a certain pull over

15:46

the, I think, mood in Germany,

15:49

whether it's protests as well that

15:51

there have been this year in

15:55

multiple forms against the IFD,

15:58

thousands of people pouring onto the street. street, there

16:01

is, I think, a space

16:03

for which we've seen in

16:06

other places outside

16:08

of Germany where football can help

16:12

lift a mood. And I think

16:14

that's going to be the most interesting thing

16:16

for me, is sure there are these factors

16:19

of how will they play,

16:21

but actually, how are they going

16:23

to make people feel? This

16:26

is what this is about, isn't it? Because

16:29

2006 really affected football

16:32

Germany, as you say, self-image,

16:35

didn't it? It had a

16:37

massive effect. And really, it's

16:39

not entirely dissimilar in terms

16:42

of this was a tournament that

16:44

Germany went into at a

16:46

fairly low ebb after poor performances at

16:48

a recent tournament. So you could

16:50

kind of make that comparison, couldn't you? Does

16:53

Germany need this like lift in self-image

16:55

again from a football perspective? It

17:00

had only been 10 years since they last

17:02

won something, which by German

17:05

standards was a very long

17:07

time as well. So yeah,

17:11

what it did for the self-image and

17:14

this nostalgia that

17:17

broke out was so

17:20

important for them. And it's

17:22

been lost. And I think part of their

17:25

mission is to try and win it back. But

17:28

as my colleague Kit

17:30

Holden, who's released

17:32

a book called Played in Germany

17:35

and talking about all the different

17:37

places where the tournament is taking

17:39

place and the historical background of it, he's spoken

17:41

to somebody, the

17:43

CEO, I think of the organization

17:46

of the Euros. And one

17:49

thing that he's noted, that

17:51

Kit's noted was how the

17:53

colour scheme of the tournament

17:55

is blue and they are

17:58

pushing more of a European agenda here. and

18:00

it's not about more of a... Because

18:03

of the anxiety

18:06

and the links that go

18:08

with German nationalism, they

18:10

are having to tread a little bit

18:12

carefully. So it is still a sensitive

18:14

thing for them to go around. But

18:18

I think that's... It's interesting for

18:20

me that they're trying to promote this idea of

18:22

European-ness at a time of... Yeah,

18:25

you look across the continent. There is

18:27

not all too much unity to say

18:30

the least. Ready

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20:10

bluenile.com. What

20:21

a lot of listeners might want to know is

20:23

whether Nargusman is the answer.

20:26

Going forward now, he's been offered an

20:28

extension to the contract in Italy. He

20:30

was only supposed to be the coach

20:32

till the end of the Euros and

20:34

now he's got contract extension to the

20:36

World Cup. So clearly the German FA

20:38

feel that he is the answer. Is

20:40

he the real deal only field? Read

20:42

them as a dancer, Nargusman's the answer.

20:45

I like that.

20:48

I'm sure he thinks so. Why not? I

20:51

don't know why that came to me. He

20:53

probably hums that while he's skateboarding to the

20:55

training ground. You can imagine him. It's a

20:58

very valuable motivational tool, I think to

21:04

be written off by people

21:07

in football sometimes. And

21:09

Yulien Nargusman has

21:11

not necessarily had to wait

21:14

too long for it

21:17

to be shown that actually he wasn't that bad

21:19

a coach at Bayern because everybody saw what happened

21:21

with Thomas Tuchel. I don't

21:23

think anybody would also immediately look at, well hang on,

21:26

they're still in contention for all three trophies

21:28

as they were for the Champions

21:31

League, for the DFB Cup and for the Bundesliga

21:34

when he was sacked in

21:36

March 2023.

21:38

So I don't think

21:41

he had to do too much rescuing

21:43

of his reputation. But at the same

21:45

time I think that he's wanted to

21:47

show Bayern, well, apparently

21:50

I'm too modern a coach

21:53

for you so let's see

21:55

how that works. This

21:58

isn't an easy job to take. If

22:00

you're talking about rehabilitating, like, I

22:04

guess your sense that I can do this

22:06

or your public image, is it? I

22:08

mean, it's not, it's not hiding anywhere. This

22:11

is a really tough job, isn't it? This

22:14

it's yeah, it's, it's super tough

22:16

because of also the,

22:19

the greater implications of, of trying

22:22

to manage a country

22:24

where there's always talk of there being 80

22:27

million Bundas trainer, i.e. 80

22:29

million people who all want to stick their

22:31

all in and be like, Oh, what's he

22:33

doing? Why is he not picked? Garetska.

22:36

Oh, Matt's hummus after why he's played in

22:38

the Champions League. How can he not be

22:41

in the squad? And you've always got to

22:43

deal with, with that.

22:45

And to, to have

22:47

the, to

22:49

have the necessary nuance to deal with, with

22:52

situations. And I think that Union

22:55

and Augsman is big enough to say that, look,

22:58

he's not always got that right, but

23:00

he's still got a lot more nous

23:02

about him. And he is a, he's

23:05

a modern coach who wants to play on,

23:07

on the front foot all

23:09

the time. And when it comes

23:11

to rehabilitating an image, I

23:14

think that that that's helpful to

23:16

have because he's also not part

23:18

of the DFB system and

23:20

the first coach in almost

23:23

two decades, really to be that. It's been

23:25

like the Anfield boot room, isn't it? You

23:27

want to keep the magic in

23:29

the bottle, don't you? From Klinsman

23:32

to Love to eventually Flick. You

23:34

know, you want that, I

23:37

guess that sort of feeling

23:39

of a lineage, don't you? And

23:42

they broke out of it with, with

23:45

Nargusman and there is, there

23:48

is that fresher feel with

23:50

him. The most

23:52

important moment though, was the,

23:55

the, the

23:57

friendly against France. And

23:59

then that. followed up by the game against

24:01

Netherlands, where you

24:05

did start to see what felt like a

24:07

team performance and everybody clicking

24:09

together and being on the same page,

24:11

which had not felt that

24:14

way with a German team performance for so

24:16

long. The Netherlands one was the one really,

24:19

wasn't it? Even though you're being

24:21

an incredible side, arguably the best side in

24:23

the world in France when they

24:25

didn't kneel, we'd had

24:27

moments under Nargles Man before

24:29

where there'd been good performances

24:32

or decent results, but

24:35

it looked a struggle for consistency. Now, I

24:37

know you can't really call two games consistency,

24:41

but it felt like a very coherent international

24:44

window, that one, didn't it? And

24:46

I guess because of Germany's histories

24:49

in tournaments, people are

24:51

ready to be convinced more easily by Germany than

24:53

they are perhaps by another team where you see

24:55

the green shoots of recovery. And

24:57

also his decision to bring

25:00

back Tony Kross out

25:02

of retirement was a

25:04

brave one, because of what we've

25:07

been saying about how, well,

25:11

Germany's got to move on from this past block,

25:13

but to say actually, yes, but

25:16

that guy is the guy we

25:18

need for this tournament, is

25:21

still, we're still quite a bold call. And

25:24

to have that clarity of thinking around how

25:26

the team is going to work, how the

25:29

team is going to be structured, because under

25:31

Hansi Flick, there was too much

25:33

of the, you noticed it in the

25:35

Japan game in the World Cup, which they lost, where

25:39

he used Kimmish and Gundogan

25:41

to begin with, but then subbed off

25:43

Gundogan for Geretska. And that was the

25:46

moment which flicked the switch

25:48

for Germany in a negative fashion. And

25:51

you thought, is Hansi Flick trying to please too

25:53

many of the big players here? And

25:56

Union Nagelsmann has taken that out of the

25:58

equation, being like, okay, What are the elements

26:00

of the team that I need to

26:03

fit this together? And having somebody like

26:05

Robert Andrich alongside Krosz,

26:07

who is more of

26:09

a destroyer, but actually

26:11

shown a finer side to his game

26:13

now with Leverkusen as well. Even

26:17

just as a character, that to

26:19

have him there is, has been,

26:21

I think a smart move and something

26:23

that you need in a team where

26:25

you've got so much attacking quality, Alah,

26:28

Florian Wietz, Jamal Musiala.

26:31

And you do need somebody who is going to be

26:33

prepared to sit. And even though Andrich does have those

26:35

other sides to his game, which he's shown this season,

26:38

that he is going to be patient enough to

26:41

say, hang on, I can, I can also sit

26:43

something which say, Josu Akimish was

26:45

always wanting a bit more because he'd

26:47

had that encouraged underhand flick

26:49

at Bayern and it worked. But

26:52

also at Bayern, he had Alfonso

26:54

Davies in his prime to sweep

26:56

up behind if, if anything went wrong

26:59

and, and Germany doesn't have that. So

27:02

that Nargusman was able to see after the friendlies

27:04

and how badly they went in November against

27:07

Austria and Turkey and say, actually, we

27:09

can't defend. So we're not going to

27:12

really do that anyway, but I'm going

27:14

to have to change things in a

27:16

big way. That's

27:19

that, that for me is the, is the most impressive

27:21

thing is, is being able to, to

27:24

undertake so many changes and for

27:26

it to, to click

27:29

as quickly both on the pitch,

27:31

but as you can see off the pitch,

27:33

just how much everybody seems to enjoy spending

27:35

time with each other. It doesn't feel kind

27:37

of like fixed smiles. It's clearly they've got

27:39

the players and they've got the coach, you

27:42

know, you're not going to get an argument

27:44

from many people on either of those two

27:46

points, but look at what you said. Uh,

27:49

they should be beating Austria every

27:52

single time. Turkey, I think is a slightly

27:54

different issue, not least for sort of historical,

27:57

uh, cultural reasons, et cetera.

28:00

but they should be beating Austria and arguably should

28:02

be beating Turkey all the time, but

28:05

They're not the Germany that you would

28:07

have assumed that that was the case

28:10

They've got to convince all the other teams

28:12

now not least Scotland who arguably will have

28:14

their tails up and thinking hang on we

28:16

might be catching Germany at the time They're

28:18

not the Germany of 2014 But

28:21

I guess I guess that's the thing isn't it

28:23

because when we still think when we think of

28:26

Germany in tournament terms We go back

28:28

to that default don't we of

28:30

like Italy being defensive? Germany

28:32

no matter what set of players that they

28:34

have out They'll

28:37

always turn up because it's Germany in a tournament

28:39

So I think when we think of tournament Germany,

28:41

we don't even think of 2014 Germany. We're thinking

28:43

of 1996

28:46

Germany or 1990 Germany that

28:48

is still the Germany that's that stuck

28:50

in our our heads I think you're

28:52

right. But 2014 particularly the

28:55

victory against Brazil in

28:58

their home turf Seven

29:00

one was it? Yeah, and that wasn't

29:02

even the final arguably that was the

29:04

final but nevertheless They go on

29:06

and win the World Cup. Yeah, and that

29:08

was the last time you thought Oh

29:10

Germans Yeah, they won it again. That

29:13

was the last time that you really

29:15

thought that what's happened since then is

29:17

the huge question Ten years

29:19

since then. Okay, they're turning it around now,

29:21

but what went so drastically wrong from that

29:24

point They

29:26

drank their own Kool-Aid a bit Which

29:30

which can happen I think

29:33

they they struck

29:35

they also had a they had a

29:38

golden generation and There

29:40

is a point where you

29:42

cannot expect to replicate a

29:45

team where you have Deep

29:47

breath Philip Blum Bastian

29:50

Schweinsteiger Meza ursil Tony

29:53

course Thomas Muller Miroslav

29:56

closer Miroslav closer. Yeah

30:00

I guess I guess the thing is out of

30:02

that generation the ones that you expect it to

30:04

carry on and take it on One

30:06

able to yeah If

30:12

you look at say Mario Gertzer Andre

30:14

Schuller the next five to six years didn't

30:16

turn out for them as they expected gets

30:19

the scores that that winner in the World

30:21

Cup a goal that by the way and

30:24

Not many players are capable of scoring It doesn't

30:27

go down as one of the great World Cup winning

30:29

goals But God most most

30:31

players are snatching at that last let's be

30:33

honest even most good play even Gonzalo Eguin

30:35

at the other end. Let's say for example,

30:37

Danny, Edwell No,

30:40

even a snack but

30:42

I think That's

30:45

part of the reason it's not just you

30:47

can look at German

30:51

The German FA and development and German

30:53

football culture But you can't legislate for

30:56

what happened to a few of those

30:58

those key players and how Shurla

31:00

kind of fell out of professional

31:02

football. Mary Gertzer had all those

31:05

health problems for example yeah,

31:09

I think sometimes we We

31:12

expect it to be this

31:14

machine like production of players

31:20

You're right, but that's how Germany sold the

31:22

post euro 2000 redevelopment that are now We've

31:24

got this factory for players and that's the

31:26

way that people saw it abroad wasn't it?

31:29

Yeah, that we've changed the way we produce

31:31

players But as you say

31:33

there were human elements to it as well Oh,

31:35

no, and that's that was probably something that that

31:37

got lost along the way. Yeah, and People

31:40

were having to wear those That

31:44

those statuses of Past

31:48

players and you've seen someone like yours were Kim ish

31:50

who I think would have

31:52

been a popular player had he been around in

31:54

the 90s Because

31:56

he's he's this Quite

32:00

mad macho, always

32:03

shouty, little

32:06

terrier on

32:08

the pitch. But that doesn't get

32:10

respect from people all

32:12

the time. You saw it in the All or

32:14

Nothing documentary at one point where Nicola Zula refers

32:17

to him as, I don't pay attention

32:19

to what the little fish say or

32:22

something. I think that's the quote. And

32:25

I think it's been... When

32:29

you have that kind of success, people then put it

32:32

into those terms of, well, where's

32:34

the next Thomas

32:37

Muller? They don't have the imagination

32:40

to think, okay, well, our

32:43

next winners can be different from this. They think

32:45

they have to fit into that slot. And

32:48

to be able to have the

32:50

imagination to do something different will take

32:52

time because I think you're going

32:55

to have, in a

32:58

country like Germany, you're going to have a

33:02

general way of thinking which

33:04

will be dominated by, well, how was the

33:06

last team successful? Well, we'll just do the

33:08

same thing. But the reality is that football

33:10

moves, football changes, and you

33:12

have to be different in the

33:14

way that you achieve success. It's not, for

33:17

example, in the Champions League because Champions League

33:19

and major tournaments are

33:21

knockout tournaments. And the way

33:23

you achieve success in that is not the

33:25

same thing every year. A Pep

33:28

Guardiola man's cityside wins it one year.

33:30

Chelsea in 2012 win it

33:32

in another. And that's

33:35

also what keeps us

33:37

hooked into football, is that there is

33:40

that possibility of winning it in multiple

33:42

ways. It is not like Andy's Dear

33:44

Basketball, where you know that at the

33:46

end of it, the best team will

33:48

probably win because it's been averaged out

33:50

over so many times.

33:52

But in football, it's that one chance, that one shot.

33:54

And you know what? If it goes in off the

33:56

back of someone's ass, you win the game. And

33:59

despite the fact the other team... team had 27 shots, they lose. If

34:03

you just had one shot, I'd

34:08

love him on the big screen for the final. Finally,

34:11

though, what kind of fan, football fan experience

34:13

are we going to get? Those of us

34:16

who are fortunate enough to be over in

34:18

Germany, but even those of us who are

34:20

watching it on the telly, we've heard a

34:22

lot about this great German fan, football fan

34:25

experience as they've heard about ours. What can

34:27

we expect? It's

34:29

going to be different because it's

34:32

not a Bundesliga, Zweiter

34:35

Bundesliga match day experience where

34:37

when you go into a

34:39

stadium, you, the first thing

34:41

I think that strikes you when you look at like

34:44

the main bank of home fans is

34:47

this patchwork quilt of

34:49

different banners of fan clubs. And

34:52

it feels like you're walking into

34:54

somebody's living room. So

34:57

the sadness for me is that it's going to

34:59

be quite an impersonal experience when you go

35:01

into these stadiums, because the real colour that

35:03

is given to German football is by those

35:05

fans at club level. And the

35:08

ultras will have no

35:10

interest in the euros at all. There

35:13

will be, I think people will

35:15

be friendly and warm and welcoming

35:17

as you would expect, but

35:20

you can't necessarily anticipate that

35:22

there will be that same

35:24

atmosphere that you get because

35:26

the whole thing about it,

35:28

it's not just support for

35:31

free from these fans. It's support because

35:33

these are the communities that they are

35:35

so deeply tied to.

35:38

The thing that I would expect as a

35:41

fan as well, it sounds more

35:43

like a forewarning. On

35:45

Sundays, Germany is shut. It

35:47

is very shut. And I'm

35:50

warning you, England fans, the Serbia

35:52

game, it's on a Sunday in

35:54

Gelsenkirchen. You are not going

35:56

to be able to walk into a supermarket and

35:58

get a six pack. So you better be. prepared

36:01

on the Saturday. What about curry votes? The

36:03

curry, the curry verse. Look,

36:06

I think, I think there'll be

36:08

some curry verse stands open, right? Fast, fast food

36:10

and bars is a different, is a different matter.

36:13

But I'm just saying, I know what

36:15

English culture is like when it comes to, shall

36:17

we have a few tins on the, on route to the

36:19

ground? So it's a fair old tram ride

36:21

out there as well, isn't it?

36:23

Yeah. Yeah. At

36:26

least the trams will run on time, won't they? Oh

36:28

God, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

36:30

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. For

36:33

sprung technique. I'm going to use this as another opportunity. Right.

36:36

Don't trust German trains with your

36:38

life. I have been

36:40

done so many times by

36:42

German trains. I, and people are like, well,

36:44

it becomes like that

36:47

Monty Python sketch. Yeah, but it's not

36:49

as bad as, Yeah. When

36:51

I were a lad. Yeah, exactly. We

36:53

saw one train a year. Exactly.

36:57

You were lucky to have a train.

36:59

We just had two guys pumping on

37:02

the rails. I've seen that in Blazing

37:04

Saddles. Just pumping one of those

37:06

things. Yeah, right. I suppose it all depends how much

37:08

of a rush you're in. Because it's

37:10

quite comfortable. If

37:13

you're not in a rush, isn't it? Like

37:16

take your time, get there

37:19

early. Do not, do

37:21

not think, if you think Germany is efficient,

37:24

right? I'm verbally

37:26

slapping you across the face for a start.

37:29

Don't, don't expect that. That is a

37:31

myth. It's not true. Wait

37:33

until you wait until you encounter a

37:35

restaurant service for a start in Germany.

37:37

You will not be saying you will

37:39

not be calling it efficient. I don't

37:41

want to talk about great place to

37:43

live though. I love it so much,

37:45

mate. I don't want to talk about

37:47

everything in football allegories, but we should

37:49

emphasize they didn't pick Matt Swimmels. They

37:51

did pick Nico Schlottabec. Style ahead

37:53

of efficiency, baby. But

37:59

hang on. I'm not letting you

38:01

have this. Wait, are you saying that,

38:04

because for all of

38:06

Matt's homos' idiosyncrasies, there's

38:08

a stylish guy. Yeah, I'm

38:10

talking about that. There's a,

38:13

I've been told by enough female friends

38:15

that there is one good looking fella.

38:17

Well, there you go. That's

38:20

the, maybe it's a taste thing. Have

38:22

you changed since you went? It's okay. Look, point

38:25

is... This whole Champions League season is blowing my

38:27

mind, what can I say? I

38:29

think people will enjoy it, but you're going to see more

38:32

of what German fans call the event

38:34

fans. The ones

38:36

who aren't necessarily in the hardcore, in

38:38

the ultras. There

38:41

will still be fans who love their

38:43

football, who will be there and

38:45

will get behind it. But

38:47

German football is not renowned for its

38:50

spontaneous support and it does not have

38:52

that English-ness

38:54

of, well, you know,

38:56

me and my mates were in the

38:58

pub, and we've come up with this

39:01

new chant for our left back. There

39:03

isn't that kind of culture. So,

39:05

I'm more

39:07

intrigued to see how it pans out, because

39:10

I don't know, there's going

39:12

to, it's such a big departure from what

39:14

is usually happening in these stadiums that it's

39:16

difficult to predict. Just to clarify, for those

39:19

going to Cologne, Lukas Podolsky's chain of kebab

39:21

shops will be open. That's

39:24

always open a lot of the time.

39:26

But, if you want a

39:28

kebab and it's 4am, then

39:31

you go to Mehmetz, right? Mehmetz Derna, he's

39:33

my man. I used to live round the

39:35

corner from there, and

39:38

he always sorted me out. I remember,

39:40

for example, Fulham got promoted

39:42

during Covid. Nightmare! You

39:44

know, I'm the only one, I'm the only one

39:47

wondering about town at 3am, because I'm buzzing. But

39:49

of course, there's no other Fulham fans. Well, actually,

39:51

there's one other Fulham fan, my mate Tom, except

39:53

he's got Covid. So he came down to his

39:55

door, and we kind of high-fived, like in the

39:57

air, but he was five metres away.

40:00

because I couldn't do anything.

40:02

But Mehmet's Durn has sorted me out. So,

40:05

so yeah. So Mehmet's Kebab it is.

40:07

That's about it from us. Thank you

40:09

for listening to On The Continent. Do

40:11

make sure you join us again tomorrow

40:14

when Andy and I will be joined

40:16

by Lars Severson for a complete Euro

40:18

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