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Hi it's me Katya a pair of on the

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media So over the last couple of weeks we've

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been in your is asking for help. To support

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the show, you've heard from Brooke.

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You've heard. From Micah. Now. It's

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this outfit, I'm not gonna dress it up for yeah,

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I'm gonna tell you how it is. If.

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Every single one of you. Every. Single

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one of our listeners gave one dollar to

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Have enough to cover the budget for a couple

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of you who donate. Up

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Put off. Do it now. It's

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expect someone else to pay for your New York Times

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subscription. Or your Netflix account. Know.

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right? So. It's time to

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pay for on the media. Were. Counting on

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you guys. Thanks. The

1:08

Village Voice is no more. After

1:10

more than four decades in print,

1:12

the City Paper is shutting down.

1:15

A weekly connection to Twin Cities culture.

1:17

Now just a forty one year chapter

1:19

in it's journalistic history. What happened to

1:22

the off me irreverent alt weekly is

1:24

that used to populate. Use fans across

1:26

the country from W N Y C,

1:28

a New York This is on the

1:31

Media I'm like alone on this week

1:33

show an ode to the Village Voice.

1:35

The voice was your guide your

1:38

life from people who cared about

1:40

what they were covering with such

1:42

intensity that there were fistfight than

1:44

brawls inside the paper. That gone

1:47

was the founder. Of it into

1:49

this chain. About Weeklies finds himself in

1:51

hot water over his brakes list competitor.

1:53

We started in two thousand for better

1:55

gauge because we you go to class.

1:58

Where does this was going away. They

2:00

don't com system knowingly have club

2:02

limited someone to be exploited. saw

2:04

some it up after this. Is.

2:12

Your Support W N Y

2:14

C Studios. W.

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C: That's Rocket money.com/w N Y. C

3:05

I'm Helga Davis and my

3:07

So is all about. The

3:09

Urdu Fearless Com preseason The

3:11

Wonder. Of dialect. Is that

3:13

what you think is so obvious?

3:16

it really question at a deep

3:18

level. Sometimes the truth is

3:20

having those uncomfortable discussions that

3:23

get two sacks that we

3:25

usually don't want to talk

3:27

about. Join me

3:29

for a new season of Helga.

3:31

Wherever you get podcasts, From

3:36

W N Y C New York this is

3:38

on the media Brick Gladstone as out this

3:40

week. I'm Mike alone. Your. Alternative

3:43

Weeklies. All weeklies are the type

3:45

of off be fearless publication that's

3:48

once upon a time you could

3:50

pick up on a street corner,

3:52

in a bar, a cafe in

3:54

cities across the country over the

3:57

course of roughly sixty years see

3:59

Transform Journalists. Today they're

4:01

nearly extinct. Well, it is the

4:03

end of an era. This week

4:05

is your last chance to grab

4:07

this. the current issue of the

4:09

Baltimore City Paper, The Village Voice.

4:11

Is No more the Pulitzer prize winning

4:13

paper with known for it's coverage of

4:15

politics, music, Theatre, and the Gates community.

4:18

A weekly connection to Twin Cities

4:20

culture. Now just take one year

4:22

chapter in it's journalistic history. Smiles

4:24

at. This in of the San Francisco Bay

4:26

Guardian is going to be the last. The

4:29

Boston Phoenix forbid, Tulsa Philadelphia

4:31

City Paper, San Francisco Bay

4:34

Guardian and Knoxville Mercury have

4:36

also closed shop. They are

4:38

totally gone. The Association of

4:40

Alternative News Media lists one

4:43

hundred and one members, but

4:45

those that survive must contend

4:47

with constant mergers, buyouts, and

4:50

financial preparedness. The. Legacy

4:52

of Alt Weekly however lives

4:54

on in a generation of

4:56

astounding writers including but in

4:58

the way limited to Wean

5:00

Bear It, Joe Klein, Catherine

5:02

Boo, Tommy Haas The Codes

5:05

David Carr, Susan Or Lean,

5:07

Jonathan Gold, Colson, Whitehead and

5:09

Powers A Meal-and on and

5:11

on. They. Went after local

5:13

politicians championed weirdo artists and

5:15

salads to the status quo.

5:18

Including the conventions of journalism

5:20

and writing. For. The next

5:22

hour will celebrate the guts and glory

5:25

of a bygone media era, beginning with

5:27

a look back at where it all

5:29

began. In. Greenwich Village. In

5:34

Nineteen Fifty Five, Norman Mailer took

5:36

the money he'd earned from his

5:38

best seller, The Naked In The

5:40

Dead. And together with The And

5:42

Wolf, a psychologist and publisher advancer

5:45

sounded the Village Voice. They wanted to

5:47

create a paper that. Reflected the

5:49

friend. It's villas that they

5:51

knew and loved. Beatnik. Called

5:53

sir and says the. Writers like

5:55

James Baldwin, Tricia Romano worked at The

5:58

Voice in the nineties and. Thousand

6:00

she's the author of a new

6:02

oral history titled the Freaks Came

6:04

out to write the definitive history

6:06

of the Village Voice, the radical

6:08

paper that seems to American culture.

6:11

She. Explains that at the outset

6:13

Editor Dan Wolf had a preference

6:15

for hiring amateurs. As he put

6:17

it, quote, it was a philosophical

6:19

position We wanted to jam the

6:21

gears of creeping a Tom. It

6:23

isn't journalism at that time. this

6:26

very much who what where, why?

6:28

When it's almost like

6:30

constructing. A puzzle piece rather than it

6:32

is. Writing their way.

6:34

And anyway. So he in Norman

6:36

Mailer. Also, lean towards.

6:39

Writers Friday and they knew

6:41

that if you love something

6:43

and you're passionate about a

6:45

subject, you going to. Bring

6:47

net percent. Sue The Voice.

6:50

In a way that an objective

6:52

newspaper. Reporter really wasn't even allowed

6:55

to. Give. Me a couple examples

6:57

of people who city in the at

6:59

the Village Voice help define it style.

7:01

But. Probably wouldn't have gotten

7:04

hired at one of its

7:06

competitors. A guy Jules Feiffer

7:08

was see Pulitzer winning cartoonists

7:11

who wrote the satirical, very

7:13

adult comics about relationships between

7:16

men and women called Sick,

7:18

Sick, Sick. He got paid

7:20

nothing for many years and then

7:23

Jonas meters Lithuanian refugees who was

7:25

an avant garde filmmaker and director

7:27

and for sale last parties and

7:30

sewed Andy Warhol films. He walked

7:32

in one days is has some

7:34

you don't have any problems and

7:36

cinema they said i don't know

7:39

why you do it so he

7:41

started doing that and then. Nino

7:44

you reach your goal seen

7:46

it comes along later and

7:49

he is the first rock

7:51

fritz by many people's calculations.

7:53

And he is actually one of the

7:55

few people who actually did go to

7:58

journalism school, which he tried to. Hi.

8:01

Because if you'd like a square. Yeah well the

8:03

edo she was the weirdo and his

8:06

journalism school. he had long hair and

8:08

he tells a joke house some mess

8:10

with the instructors he would put a

8:12

server. Tube on his desk because they

8:14

would think it was acid. Efforts at

8:17

a at a. Was

8:20

embedded in. The early Roxy

8:22

an Inhaler were on The Velvet

8:25

Underground and all those People and.

8:27

He quickly became very well known

8:30

for this because that music. Was

8:32

just starting to explode from December

8:34

Nineteen Sixty Two to March. Ninety

8:36

Sixty Three, seven major daily newspapers

8:39

in New York went on strike

8:41

Zone bad news. do a million

8:43

New Yorkers when strikes Taliban and

8:46

daily papers the voices. And since

8:48

it was available on newsstands, it

8:50

kind of like stood out to

8:53

New Yorkers outside of Greenwich Village

8:55

for the first time, leading to

8:57

a spike in circulation for about

9:00

twenty thousand to thirty. Five

9:02

thousand that audience discovers.

9:04

Oh. They're. Covering stuff that

9:06

I go to or I'd like

9:09

to go Sue. And I don't read

9:11

about anywhere else. And so. We.

9:13

Suddenly. Dot, more advertising and

9:15

a greater audience. Fum, that's it

9:17

just grew from there. The paper

9:19

was roughly speaking divided into the

9:21

front of the book which was

9:23

the the news coverage and the

9:25

back to the book which was

9:27

more arts and culture. One of

9:30

the early news reporters is this

9:32

amazing woman married Pero Nichols who

9:34

started at the paper nineteen fifty

9:36

eighth. Her. Origin story of the paper

9:38

it turns out is not that unusual see kind

9:40

of just like walked in through the front door

9:42

right. Yeah, assess, assess. That's what a

9:44

lot of people did. They just walk into

9:47

the office. They were just come in and

9:49

be like hey the new about they say

9:51

or were covering this or bad see. With

9:53

a mother who live nearby. And

9:55

for an a group of other

9:58

mothers with hang out washington. Square

10:00

Park, one of them being Jane Jacobs.

10:02

This is the time when Robert Moses

10:04

had this vision for the city that

10:06

was much were per cent rates and

10:08

would have. Both those the lower

10:11

part of Manhattan as we know

10:13

it now and. She began going

10:15

into the voices a wire is

10:18

suffering ness after a few tries

10:20

they so why don't you do

10:22

it and see it Literally No

10:24

reporting skills and. Had never done

10:26

that before, but she apparently

10:29

loves. The research, since she loved

10:31

the hunt Robert Moses, of course, was

10:33

incredibly powerful urban planner New York City

10:35

for decades. What happened to his attempt

10:38

to turn the beloved Washing Square Park

10:40

into just another thoroughfare Well, a lot

10:42

of white marry did was. Advocate

10:44

against it every week in

10:46

The Village Voice. and getting

10:48

the Neighbors involves getting especially

10:50

a lot of women you.

10:52

Were using their park every

10:55

day with their kids to

10:57

block it. And eventually politically

10:59

she was able to convince a lot

11:01

of them. but ah yes sir owners

11:03

also she would put it to them

11:05

like look in all those people that

11:07

pay tribute to you meaning all the

11:09

people they got money from say that

11:11

can be there anymore It like none

11:14

of those stores. Will be there's I restaurant

11:16

will be there. So you're going to lose money.

11:18

The offices of the Village Voice

11:20

were right next to the Stonewall

11:22

Inn Voice. Reporters were there in

11:24

Nineteen Sixty Nine and covered when

11:26

the bar was raided in an

11:29

event that spark the modern day

11:31

gay rights movement. How did the

11:33

boys cover the Stonewall Uprising and

11:35

why were they targeted by the

11:37

gay rights movement in the so

11:39

called Zaps. So back

11:41

and then day gay bars are not

11:43

allowed. Also, I should. Say most as

11:45

a gay bars is now. all of them

11:47

were owned by the mafia. So

11:50

a resurgence this game that

11:52

the police and the mafia

11:54

would phrase. Which was they'd go read

11:56

the gay bar. And the

11:58

Mafia the tail. The place

12:00

and then the bar reopen by.

12:02

In this case they were raided

12:04

and. The patrons for fed up

12:06

and they started getting tired of

12:08

roughly handled by the police Outside

12:10

Hard Smith were inside is kind

12:12

of like in my life reporter

12:15

on the scene in the sixties

12:17

and seventies. he was inside. With

12:19

police and listen Trust guy who wrote

12:21

from the outside. And you

12:23

know they are both straight

12:25

white men and way they

12:27

covered it was both with

12:29

more or seriousness and lane.

12:32

Dinner was seeing any other publication?

12:34

There were two probably twelve hundred

12:36

words something articles inside the paper.

12:39

where's any other paper? Think maybe

12:41

ram a little Squibb's and no

12:43

one was there. But be used

12:46

words that we would find offensive

12:48

today. The headline was forces of

12:50

Mm the the F slur that's

12:53

offensive today, but it was offensive

12:55

Then to end. Game.

12:57

Readers of the news coverage were not

12:59

happy with that. They. Were not

13:02

happy with die and they were

13:04

also not happy with the fact

13:06

that the voice wouldn't take adds

13:08

that said the word gay so

13:11

they were zap zap meaning like

13:13

protested and the voices officers were

13:15

pretty transparent. The windows I think

13:17

we're so into the story and.

13:20

They just sort of. As

13:22

disrupted. The meetings is such

13:24

long enough that gun off the editor and

13:27

see it was like okay I guess we

13:29

had a deal of this. That was a

13:31

learning lesson for the voice that to much

13:33

sooner than it did. For other media,

13:35

in one of the sort of

13:37

internal agitators at The Voice who

13:40

was quite critical of the homophobic

13:42

language that was used in it's

13:44

coverage of Stonewall was. Richard.

13:46

Goldstein who you've already mentioned. He

13:48

was arguably the paper and America's

13:50

first real rock critic. He was

13:52

a gay man who helped save

13:54

the music writing of the paper.

13:56

In addition to Goldstein there was

13:58

Robert, Chris, Gayle, The joined in

14:00

the late nineteen sixties as a rock

14:03

critic and columnist and he went on

14:05

to be the papers long time music

14:07

editor. He jokingly referred to himself as

14:09

the quote dean of American Rock Critics

14:12

which would be discussed his nickname that

14:14

would follow him around for the rest

14:16

of his career. Synthesis of these guys.

14:18

Hung out around the Village, including the

14:21

iconic bar and then you C B

14:23

C V. Or

14:26

they hung out with you know,

14:28

me and Patti Smith said saw.

14:30

Early says of Blondie in the

14:32

Ramon. Cbgb

14:39

was not very far. Away from

14:41

the voices Office. And it was

14:43

where you went to see local

14:45

bands, great new music and so

14:47

spans just happened to be legendary

14:50

are they would become legendary in

14:52

part because The Voice was signing

14:54

a light imam. They weren't the

14:56

only one, but. They were certainly

14:58

the local our at to do

15:01

that. Robert Chris gao. Would.

15:03

Later become known for his consumer guides

15:05

where he gave new albums a lead

15:07

or greed like you know, a B

15:09

see or whatever and as one of

15:11

the menu quote in the book describes

15:13

the Chris Kyle was heated by bans.

15:16

There's. A famous live performance of Walk

15:18

On the Wild Side by Lou Reed

15:20

from Nineteen Seventy Eight is kind of

15:22

vamping. Small playing a song and she

15:24

says this about Robber Crisco. Nice work.

15:28

On those source shows

15:31

I said. I

15:34

am never is all saying. That's amazing

15:36

to think about. Bob.

15:39

Which is different than a lot

15:41

of music writers. Is. That he

15:43

did not want to be Friends are

15:45

friendly with the bans. Because.

15:48

It's. Growth exterior belies or a

15:50

very soft it's in Syria and

15:52

if you like somebody as a

15:54

person and then say this the

15:56

record or had to be critical

15:58

of it. The bath. And

16:01

so he found it easier to be

16:03

just. Completely apart from

16:05

the ball. Coming

16:13

up multiple ownership seems is harold

16:16

the beginning of the end for

16:18

the Village Voice. disease on the

16:20

media. Property.

16:27

When my see. Studios is supported by Rocket

16:30

Money. Did you know nearly

16:32

seventy five percent of people have subscription,

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say forgotten about? Rocket Money is a

16:37

personal finance app that finds and tonsils.

16:39

Your unwanted subscriptions. Monitors are

16:41

spending and helped blow your bills that

16:43

you can grow your savings rocket money

16:45

will leave and try to negotiate. Your bills

16:47

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and Rocket Money takes care. Of the rest

16:54

rocket. Money has over five million

16:56

users, and to see the total

16:58

of five hundred million dollars in

17:00

cancelled subscriptions saving members of the

17:02

seven hundred forty dollars a year

17:04

when using all of the apps

17:06

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17:08

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17:10

subscriptions by going to run That

17:12

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17:17

Rough and has been a black later

17:19

in mostly white spaces for much of

17:21

her career for success of work opportunities

17:24

to move, have homes and make a

17:26

move back to sports knew. They're

17:28

saying feels better than being

17:30

it may. Not

17:33

ever the other. It's a feeling of

17:35

writing with. At. Least a guy right

17:37

to be or notes from America

17:39

for a conversation with comedians. Ember Ruff

17:42

It doesn't work every to get your

17:44

purchase. This

17:47

is on the Media. I'm Michael Lowers

17:49

Your we left off our story about

17:51

the history of the Village Voice at

17:53

the end of it's early heyday of

17:56

the fifties and sixties in Nineteen Seventy

17:58

Seven, after passing through several different. Owners:

18:00

The Voice was acquired to

18:02

the great chagrin of it's

18:04

writers by media mogul Rupert

18:06

Murdoch. The South ended up

18:08

unionizing and scoring some surprisingly

18:11

progressive when here's Fisher Romano

18:13

The Voice was part of

18:15

a packets in. New York Magazine

18:17

and The Village Voice and River. Where

18:19

are you really want to those way

18:21

he wanted me? Or magazine. But

18:24

some to find out New

18:26

York Magazine is actually not

18:28

the money maker so the

18:30

voices. So when he took

18:32

over the New York Magazine

18:34

staff was fired. And

18:37

The Voice: Das Freaks

18:39

Out and Farmers Union.

18:41

After a few years to talking

18:44

about health care at a meeting.

18:46

You new meaning and. We had

18:48

a thing where if you had a litter

18:50

been partner they could be on your health.

18:53

Somebody. That you're dating but we're not married to.

18:55

Yes, That was a big

18:58

thing in their negotiations to get

19:00

spousal benefits for are unmarried. Couples

19:02

and extend that Sue. Gay

19:05

couples. And big audit

19:07

Mirage was like you may not

19:09

trumpet this adds the lawyer was

19:11

like oh no but they are.

19:13

Going to trumpet this the really

19:15

troubled it specifically. You. Mentioned

19:17

that Rupert Murdoch saw that The Village

19:19

Voice was more of a moneymaker. The

19:22

New York Magazine. How

19:24

deep the paper make real money?

19:27

The classified ads in the back of

19:29

a paper were basically a form of

19:31

printing money that was a source of

19:33

income for decades for The Voice. and

19:36

for a long time. people lined up

19:38

at that's or place on Tuesday night

19:40

waiting in line to get the first

19:42

edition of the paper so they could

19:44

get a jump on apartment. Ads Yes

19:47

there was this quote from Jackie Rune

19:49

in your book who worked in advertising

19:51

who said quote people found their their

19:53

lies to the Village Voice was it

19:56

was a partner or job or departments

19:58

or whatever. Blondie. N

20:00

Bruce Springsteen in the Street Band

20:02

found their drummers through classified ads

20:04

in the Village Voice. Max. Weinberg

20:07

recite that those waste says realize.

20:09

Who was auditioning to be Bruce

20:11

Springsteen? Strummer? That's where he would

20:13

cause there's no Craigslist. There's no

20:15

Basement. Marketplace know Twitter? nothing like

20:18

that. Were you Id post sir

20:20

your help wanted ads and is

20:22

this is did the same thing

20:25

as some office looking for a

20:27

secretary. Your. Book outlines this

20:29

kind of wrist at the paper. between

20:31

the mostly white male reporters who covered

20:34

the news for the front of the

20:36

book the so called white boys as

20:38

they were known, and the feminist in

20:40

d' writers who mostly covered arts and

20:42

culture in the back of the book.

20:45

You. Are about this really interesting episode

20:47

And ninety Six when Robert Friedman,

20:49

the editor of the paper, made

20:51

the call to put performance artist

20:53

Karen Findlay on the cover of

20:55

the paper. The. Article was

20:58

written by said the a car went

21:00

by see car and see has had

21:02

a column. About four months art for

21:04

several years. And six

21:07

seems to. Richard

21:09

Goal Scene and her editor Thera Durbin

21:11

and said there's this Performance or Sara

21:13

Lee wanna. Cover says

21:15

pretty controversial I think he

21:18

succumbed seer and the thing

21:20

that see was known for

21:23

was using food and she

21:25

would often be naked or

21:27

partially naked or were like

21:30

little prom dresses and suing

21:32

crush candy yams.her body while

21:35

sister to have had this

21:37

incantations had obsessing the male

21:39

voice cynthia car rights to

21:42

story and they decide. To

21:44

put it on the cover answers

21:46

just posing with our dog. It's

21:48

a very pretty clever sought, But

21:51

you have to realize back then

21:53

papers are finite and spaces by

21:55

nine and so what gets on

21:57

cover is a big bang. Stupid.

22:00

And. At the time

22:02

Pete Hamill who's One is a

22:04

famous. Colonists and New York's

22:07

journalism worth it. Daily news.

22:10

And he is like a star.

22:12

any sort of lead this charge

22:14

against as peace because he saw

22:16

as. On worthy of being

22:18

on the cover is it wasn't

22:20

real journalism and his his eyes

22:23

and it's diminish the hard news

22:25

that all the guys in the

22:27

finance but said she never even

22:29

saw the work. But. He

22:31

wrote like of opioids. Denouncing the

22:33

story in the Worth an Idea

22:35

of the Arts to see was

22:37

doing. It was really. I mean obscenity

22:39

seemed like kind of deliberate and his performance

22:41

do want to describe what she was doing

22:44

with the Ams. It was.

22:46

Sexually. Explicit and meant

22:48

to be provocative. And

22:50

it was a commentary on. The.

22:53

Male gaze, The. End up certification

22:55

of women. Etc and

22:57

dinner sister time to saying that

22:59

those guys is just as gonna

23:02

go over their heads so they

23:04

were discharged this him that hentoff.

23:06

Barrett new feel of these are like

23:08

some of the heavy hitter investigative reporters.

23:11

Oh these guys were like Heightens as

23:13

a paper by the time. And

23:15

they go marching in a how

23:18

can you put this film son

23:20

a smile and not really understanding

23:22

that there's that. He was very

23:24

different from a city that Cynthia

23:27

car was an but the voice

23:29

was of our flights and of

23:31

the moment that New York was

23:33

in. so the front of us

23:35

left graffiti is since the office

23:38

in the bathroom they left can

23:40

see the Ems everywhere are just

23:42

sit around. The key of costs as

23:44

it was childless and the more upset

23:47

the back at about that the more

23:49

fun it by the pusher. Vice versa.

23:51

Is interesting to note that the son of

23:53

a Book wasn't as. Big. I mean literally

23:55

space lives as the back of the books

23:57

that have it was have a list. Within

24:00

the film reviews of the music

24:02

in the Theater and art and

24:04

Stamps all that it just didn't

24:07

make the cover as often. Cynthia,

24:10

Car was like if add me to cover

24:12

only. Reno favorite A realized it was

24:14

and paper that because it was ah

24:16

the cover they were. Furious.

24:18

You're. Describing this tension at

24:21

the paper and reading the

24:23

book. Itself. To me like

24:25

there was this sort of constant hum

24:27

of struggle. Were one hand you have

24:29

to village Voice as this. Very

24:32

radical, very progressive paper and yet we

24:34

keep seeing moments were is kind of

24:36

feeling to live up to its own

24:38

values. On one hand the papers celebrating

24:40

great black music and on the other

24:43

hand there were very few people of

24:45

color writing for the paper and it's

24:47

first couple decades the paper was among

24:49

the first to write about abortion. It.

24:51

Had this great stable of feminists writers like

24:54

Ellen Will is. Laurie. Stone, Karen

24:56

Durbin, and And Mark And

24:58

yet internally they face duration.

25:01

From. Their own collies. The.

25:03

Paper had these pioneering day writers.

25:06

even has the Village Voice is

25:08

publishing homophobic slurs and it's coverage

25:11

of the Stonewall Uprising. He.

25:13

Never he was constant learning process

25:15

I think for the people on

25:17

the paper and the people reading

25:20

it right and the fact that

25:22

they didn't really have any black

25:24

writers and soul Sally Krauss says

25:27

up his. Freeze The

25:29

I think it was Manson. Seventy

25:31

six or something. Basically twenty

25:33

years and ah, he wrote

25:36

about black causes. Wayne Bearer

25:38

of reporter that covered Trump's

25:40

and Giuliani and Jack New

25:42

Feals you heard about. Worse.

25:45

Landlord Sin the Worst as

25:47

As and that Hentoff who

25:49

got his start writing that

25:51

Jazz. They were all very

25:53

much about civil rights and

25:55

were a big part of

25:57

that movement, but. They. Were sir.

26:00

The line to the fact after were is

26:02

it. It's a black people at

26:04

the paper and no one seems to

26:06

figure that out. and so cider men

26:08

Davis Snyderman who is and up at

26:11

editor at the nearest times in the

26:13

seventies comes on board and use the

26:15

editor and seats and he says. What's.

26:18

This is a progressive Village Voice and

26:20

their know. Black people insists and

26:23

then they also guy investigated.

26:25

By the government agency for

26:27

this. So they had to

26:29

take action and right around that

26:31

time is when hip. Hop is

26:33

sort of born. And Hip Hop

26:36

South usher in a whole

26:38

bunch of black writers as

26:40

the The Paper: Carol Cooper

26:42

Barry Michael Cooper not related,

26:44

they're covering hip hop. Later,

26:46

Barry Michael Cooper becomes. More

26:48

of an investigative reporter and

26:50

covers to crack. Epidemic and

26:52

does as sorry that as

26:54

New Jack City that becomes

26:57

the movie Tilt Now signs

26:59

the paper. He's a Pulitzer

27:01

prize winning. Critic now at

27:03

The New Yorker. By for

27:05

decades there's nothing and. It

27:07

still was a very. Quote: Unquote

27:09

White paper. Even. towards

27:11

his then. I'm. Gonna jump way

27:13

ahead to the two thousands. When

27:16

we're starting to see cracks in

27:19

the Village Voice says business Model

27:21

and Neil Das. Now. Famous

27:23

technologists and writer joined the Village

27:25

Voice in two Thousand and One.

27:28

And this is when Craigslist, the

27:30

classified as website was first becoming

27:32

a thing. And then Nine Eleven

27:35

happens. How did the Internet and

27:37

Nine Eleven converge? To.

27:39

Ruin. The Village Voice is whole business

27:41

model. So until

27:43

just as a voice in the summer

27:45

of two thousand and One and and

27:48

happens to be the summer that's Craig's

27:50

list of as a hard launched a

27:52

New York and he came from San

27:54

Francisco as he knew of is coming

27:56

and he's selling them. you guys were

27:59

about to get disrupted and major way

28:01

in people ignore. Them to the second

28:03

once a month or day there was

28:05

launched in New York and I'm just

28:07

not as someone my city. would we

28:09

do an about Christmas and it was

28:11

like who's crash would you talking about

28:13

and I couldn't articulate why it matters

28:15

so much like a couldn't tell people

28:17

like a whole world is about to

28:20

change I felt like chicken little Johnny

28:22

Miller cat money around mean like the

28:24

red is coming coming was just as

28:26

it sounds crazy right? which is under

28:28

crazy person. But then Nine

28:30

Eleven happens and. google.

28:32

News wasn't a thing yet,

28:34

but people wanted a media

28:37

information at that point. That's

28:39

when people started pushing out

28:41

news a lot faster online.

28:44

So the combination of those

28:46

Who Sings source surrender, fret.

28:48

Not necessarily useless, but slow

28:50

when Nine Eleven happens. There

28:53

is a little bit of

28:55

a recession, and the apartment

28:57

ads stop in place with

28:59

the same level in the

29:02

same. Number as they were

29:04

before and then you have

29:06

priceless saying hey you don't

29:09

need to meal and or

29:11

call anyone or back sir

29:13

Listings is some number you

29:16

can just posted directly online

29:18

and it's free and silt.

29:20

Lot of people's assisted to

29:22

that. And. The

29:25

apartment ads never recovered

29:27

after that. Into doesn't

29:29

five Village Voice Media which is

29:32

this point was owned by Financial

29:34

Management Group along with six other

29:36

or weeklies. Merged. With

29:38

The New Times, a newspaper

29:40

chain, the became the biggest

29:42

company of all weeklies. With

29:44

seventeen papers, the New Times

29:46

had long coveted the Village

29:48

Voice. But. Once it bought Village

29:50

Voice Media, it started picking it

29:53

apart limb by limb. And

29:55

serve like they just one is

29:57

the lowdown and the name. but.

30:00

That logo name only

30:02

has value. Because of where

30:04

it was. There when you

30:06

bought it. This collection of

30:08

voices that made it to

30:10

those voice in those voices

30:12

seen. Some people came and

30:14

went well. There's a core

30:16

sensibility that Aids is stealing.

30:18

Get. In. Twenty Seventeen the

30:21

print paper for The Voice

30:23

was shut down, and a

30:25

year later, it seems like

30:27

the digital version was dead

30:29

to. Until Twenty Twenty

30:31

One, it was revived by

30:33

a new crop of ownership.

30:35

I think we can confidently say that

30:37

the Village Voice of Olds is gone.

30:40

What's. The latest it recently. It's

30:43

a zombie. The voice. Semi

30:45

hours only has one and play

30:47

and as Rc Baker who is

30:49

essentially the editor and they run

30:51

some freelance basis so it's just

30:54

is sort of. they are success.

30:56

but it's not present and the

30:58

city the way to be. The.

31:02

Voice was the guys who are specific.

31:04

Kind of Life and New

31:06

York City as it's specific

31:09

times. That collection of knowledge

31:11

from people who cared about

31:13

what they were covering with

31:15

such intensity that there were

31:18

for sites and sprawls inside

31:20

the paper that dawn. Romano's

31:24

the author of the new book the Freaks

31:26

came out to write. For

31:29

so thank you very much. Thank you for

31:31

having me. Coming

31:35

up the story of one foul

31:37

mouth editor and his empire of

31:39

book raking dirt bags, this is

31:41

on the media. W

31:48

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32:38

This week on the New Yorker radio,

32:40

our Texas doctors consent, the reality of

32:42

the abortion ban. A violation of the

32:45

law could result in a first degree

32:47

felony charge and a sign of at

32:49

least a hundred thousand dollars. After Rule

32:52

was overturned, the message from doctors was

32:54

i'm outta here revisiting the abortion laws

32:56

in Texas That's the New Yorker Radio

32:58

our from W N Y C studios.

33:01

Listen, were we good? Your pancakes. This

33:08

is on the media I make

33:10

alone serve. as we just heard,

33:12

the Village Voice was bought by

33:14

a national scene of a weeklies

33:16

called The New Times. owned by

33:18

a man named Michael Lacy. over

33:20

four decades, lazy and his business

33:22

partner James Larkin built the largest,

33:25

most influential company and alternative media.

33:27

And when Craigslist came along, Leafy

33:29

and Larkin launched their own classified

33:31

website to head off the same

33:33

disaster that was taking down newspapers

33:35

left and right back page as.

33:37

It was called soon became

33:39

synonymous with sex and scandal.

33:42

The Justice Department was paying

33:44

attention and it's when he

33:46

eighteen the government crackdown on

33:48

sex trafficking federal agents this

33:50

afternoon Cz classified ad website

33:53

backpage.com and closed it down.

33:55

Seven people were arrested including the sides

33:57

founders like they are facing federal charges.

34:00

Putting prostitution and money laundering.

34:02

Leaf email, seventy five years old has

34:04

already been tried twice. The first was

34:07

declared a mistrial and the second last

34:09

fall found him guilty of one town

34:11

of money laundering. The other eighty four

34:14

counts were troughs. He now faces a

34:16

third trial this summer. A

34:19

new podcast series from Audible called

34:21

Hold Fast documents how Bike Lazy

34:23

in his own telling, became the

34:25

Larry Flynt of the Internet age.

34:28

The hosts three former New Times

34:30

journalists conducted a series of interviews

34:33

with their former boss to tell

34:35

the story of the rise and

34:37

fall of Back page.com What follows

34:39

is an excerpt version of episode

34:42

One. Sam. I fling take

34:44

that off than you'll hear from Server

34:46

Aronson, followed by Michael Moody. Places

34:53

in his mid seventies light blue

34:55

eyes and nose that looks like

34:57

it's com more than a few

34:59

punches. He was designer black, thick

35:01

rimmed glasses and sports tattoos on

35:03

his hands. He looks like a

35:05

magazine editor sharing a body with

35:07

a bar room brawl. or and

35:09

actually that's sort of what he

35:11

is. If he ever charms you

35:13

into forgetting his brawling half, just

35:15

read his knuckles tattooed across the

35:17

business, part of his fists in

35:19

faded lueck or the letters H

35:21

O L D. S

35:23

A S T hold

35:26

fast. It's a traditional

35:28

seafarers have to. Hold

35:31

Fast Tells other sailors that you

35:33

can grip of rope through any

35:35

store. It tells them they could

35:37

put their life and your hands.

35:40

But. You'll never let go. Leases

35:43

newspaper career began on the campus

35:45

of Arizona State University. Where.

35:47

He and other students founded and anti

35:49

Vietnam War paper and Nights and seventy.

35:52

They called this new paper Phoenix New

35:54

Times for the first edition of the

35:57

paper least. he covered a Vietnam War

35:59

protest. A number of construction

36:01

workers that shown up as counterprotesters.

36:03

I'm sitting up there with the

36:05

construction workers. this is Michael Lee

36:07

and this guy's I'm interviewing him

36:09

and he says excuse me I'll

36:11

be right back. The guy walked

36:14

down the field and up to

36:16

a man who organized the demonstration.

36:18

Any Horvath sucker punches him not

36:20

to the always tease out and

36:22

drops and like a sack of

36:24

potatoes unconscious and then the guy

36:26

walks best up to finish the

36:28

interview with me. And

36:31

I'm thinking with s more Yenisei Quad

36:33

and I've ever seen in my entire

36:35

life. My God. And that was our

36:37

first story in the first issue of

36:39

Those New Times. That was the beginning.

36:42

Gym Larkin join the paper Two years later,

36:44

And. Ran the business side. As New

36:46

Times built a reputation for aggressive. Renegade.

36:49

Journalism. From. That

36:51

one newspaper in Phoenix, Lisi and

36:53

Larkin thought keepers until they had

36:56

the largest seen in the history

36:58

of alternative journalism. Spanning

37:00

the nation from L A Weekly

37:02

in Los Angeles to the Village

37:04

Voice in New York, from Seattle

37:06

Weekly to Miami New Times added

37:08

site least his newspaper change and

37:11

a ridiculous two hundred million dollars

37:13

in annual revenue. Alternative

37:16

weekly papers for of weeklies

37:18

as are often called really

37:20

free and distributed at bars,

37:22

restaurants and street corners. They

37:24

buried in style, but there

37:26

was a general public provocative

37:29

cover news. Coverage of Front: a

37:31

long narrow to feature food and

37:33

arts coverage in the middle, a

37:35

robust music section, and finally in

37:37

the back pages. Loads.

37:40

And loads of classified as. Somebody

37:44

is classified ads in the back about

37:46

weeklies were written in coded language. Though

37:49

it wasn't hard to cyprus they

37:52

advertise sex work, some of the

37:54

legal, some of it not. The

37:57

editorial tone of these newspapers was skeptical

37:59

impolite. The anti establishment papers created and

38:01

lazy don't M Rite of Now minor

38:04

of her you didn't exist. can't do

38:06

five thousand words off the top of

38:08

your head gear to put some sweat

38:11

equity in the this goddamn thing. Know?

38:13

Insane. It's easy. Get off your ass

38:15

and do it. We realized something about

38:17

Lacey watching at first from afar and

38:20

then up close as we interviewed him

38:22

over the past three years. He's a

38:24

larger than life presence hounded by the

38:26

government who made fortunes of the public

38:29

outlaw. Least since the sort

38:31

of character we would have still to cover when

38:33

we were working at. Trevor.

38:38

Same and I worked at the A

38:40

Weekly Fort Lauderdale, Florida north of Miami.

38:43

Or jobs that need homes are kind of amazing. We.

38:45

Lived in this beach town full of crazy

38:48

people doing crazy things. Sometimes.

38:50

Who'd reporter? stories? Type of larger

38:52

ass. Then. Maybe go to the beach

38:54

sure joints and read each other's work. You

38:57

times had a corporate culture that wasn't very

38:59

corporate. At. Least not always any of

39:01

us were accustomed to before them. I.

39:03

Mean, it wasn't exactly sex, drugs,

39:05

and rock'n'roll. But it wasn't

39:08

that far off either. And

39:10

somehow this culture New Times papers fostered

39:12

some of the most interesting and important

39:14

investigative reporting in America. New

39:16

Times writers nice avoid the local

39:18

officials and agencies accountable. And.

39:21

Covered marginalized communities other was ignored

39:23

by traditional media. Powerful

39:25

people lived in fear that one day the get

39:27

a call or knock on the door for the

39:29

New Times reporter. That was all

39:31

part of the corporate culture to. Inside

39:33

New Times offices around the country, reporters would

39:36

talk about powerful people as if there were

39:38

big deal. Who. Said could you

39:40

not on the law. I.

39:42

Left New Times in two thousand

39:44

six eighteen years ago. Now a

39:46

journalistic lifetime. For. Years

39:48

I didn't give New Times and it's founder much

39:51

thought. But. Then. Something

39:53

strange happened in September. Twenty

39:56

sixteen a decade after I

39:58

left the company. Received

40:00

an email from a lawyer in Arizona asking

40:02

for my mailing address. The. Email

40:04

claims least he was building a database of

40:06

former employees. So. I replied

40:08

with my mailing address figuring what

40:11

the hell people get a holiday

40:13

card. Then couple of weeks later

40:15

and a second the mail. For

40:18

five thousand dollars It was a

40:20

gift from Lacy. Turns

40:23

out Lisi facing the possibility a

40:25

serious federal charges and asset teachers

40:27

through the middle finger at the

40:30

Justice Department. He became

40:32

millions less threats by sending five thousand

40:34

dollar cheque to many of the journalists

40:36

he'd once employed. Word

40:39

quickly circulated among least his former reporters.

40:42

Did you get a check? What's lazy

40:44

up to? Did you hear

40:46

who didn't get a check? The.

40:49

Checks were so mysterious, no

40:51

details and lots of former

40:53

employees. Didn't get one. Like

40:55

me. It was

40:58

classic lacy showing real appreciation for

41:00

as writers. While. Also, drawing

41:02

them into something that might be less than

41:04

legal. Okay,

41:09

Let's go back inside. To. The Age

41:12

of The Daily Paper. Maybe. You remember

41:14

those bundles of dead trees? Thrown.

41:16

At your front door. By. A kid

41:18

on a bicycle. For. Years,

41:21

your hometown daily paper enjoyed

41:23

a near monopoly on both

41:25

news and advertising. Even

41:27

a mediocre daily could turn twenty

41:30

percent thirty percent annual profits. So

41:32

big corporations bought up American dailies

41:34

and domesticated their newsrooms. The resulting

41:36

papers were often bland by design

41:38

like the suburbs. If you reported

41:41

for a daily and tested the

41:43

limits of it's inoffensive voice and

41:45

editor would remind you that this

41:47

was a family paper. There were

41:50

no drugs in the daily except

41:52

when cops arrested people. There

41:54

was no swearing in the daily, not even in a

41:56

quote. The dailies outlook

41:58

was and is. More wine

42:01

or heterosexual, more money to

42:03

and more little see conservative

42:05

than America as large to

42:07

borrow a phrase from Tech

42:09

The Davies for right for

42:11

disruption alternative weekly newspapers arrived

42:13

on scene As that disruption

42:15

a weekly newsrooms attracts a

42:18

particular cast of journalists, culture

42:20

writers who found dailies to

42:22

stayed aspiring novelist and screenwriters

42:24

who wanted right nonfiction with

42:26

provider for news junkies who

42:28

crawled the city. Like a T

42:30

for. More broadly,

42:32

the odds got writers who

42:34

for one reason or another

42:36

ceased inside institutions. That the

42:38

fact is, without an institution

42:40

vaccines he didn't get much

42:43

done. Internals for life. So.

42:45

The old built robust papers around

42:47

calling us forever. They saw it

42:50

on the way they tried to

42:52

and for all for delight Burn

42:55

rate everyone into. If.

42:58

This sounds like a dream job to

43:00

you, and if you could tolerate making

43:02

less money than anyone else in your college

43:04

graduate in class. Then

43:06

congratulations, you might have had the

43:08

makings of an alt weekly. Journalists.

43:13

As. A subspecies of all weekly. Places.

43:15

New Times papers were also smart

43:18

and weird and contrary. But.

43:20

The papers we work for. Also. had

43:22

certain other traits, For. One,

43:24

they were not as reliably left leaning. For.

43:27

Another, they were fiercely investigative.

43:30

Even when covering say musicians

43:32

are athletes. They went digging

43:34

for dirt. They. Also had

43:36

in hindsight, a kind of

43:39

cigar chomping testosterone fueled bravado

43:41

about them. Like. A divorce uncle

43:43

who insists she punched him in the got as he

43:45

flexes his abs and then by the a shot. So.

43:49

Fifteen or twenty years ago? What

43:51

made this dirtbag dream possible? The

43:53

Business. So it. How

43:55

the operation made money Know

43:58

as reporter usually. You

44:00

don't really even wanted no other business works.

44:02

He. Might even try to avoid seen the ads

44:05

that run next or stories. The front of

44:07

being as fair as possible means you want

44:09

to treat everyone in every business equally. You.

44:11

Don't wanna know who's actually paying your

44:14

salary, but at an alt weekly was

44:16

really obvious. The. Paper

44:18

was free so made money from advertising.

44:21

Advertisers were restaurants, bars,

44:23

sessional, beer distributors, that

44:25

type of thing. But.

44:28

Like. The Dailies. One of the

44:30

advertising revenue came from the classified

44:32

classified ads charged by the word.

44:35

Mucus. That a lot of words on a piece of

44:37

news for. A single

44:39

feet and he must remind you might

44:41

rican within twenty thousand dollars to quickly

44:44

and they could front page after page

44:46

after page as tiny as and forth

44:48

font. They were huge moneymaker, You'd

44:52

find classified ads every kind of this

44:54

paper. all of America for decades. People.

44:57

Selling books are hiring bartenders, renting

45:00

apartments sometimes. they were even personalized

45:02

like a primitive form of data

45:04

caps on for some places and

45:07

as explaining what they're looking for.

45:09

Single man, six elite he was

45:11

travel the world, married woman seeking

45:14

a friend visit art museums few

45:16

times, ran those to the back

45:19

pages of ever use codes for

45:21

sale apartments for rent personal. All

45:23

that. But

45:25

all weeklies ransom slightly more.

45:28

Oh. Adult

45:30

versions to. The.

45:33

Had an entire section of the personals for.

45:36

Escorts. They. Didn't

45:38

explicitly advertised anything illegal.

45:41

But. Everyone understood what they were selling. A

45:44

company called it. Adult Advertising for

45:46

Saddam Request Or how you define

45:48

adult overtones. That's Gym Larkin Mike

45:50

Leake, his business partner. Larkin.

45:53

Ran the bit of that of the

45:55

newspapers and later back page.com. He

45:58

was arrested by the F B I the same day. The

46:00

was I guess. Gosh

46:03

advertising Meet people. Meeting.

46:06

Other people. On. The.

46:08

Size. Strippers.

46:11

Yeah, those kinds of adds. An. Ad

46:13

in the back of a new Taz paper might

46:15

say something like M for N or M for

46:17

W to indicate that a man is looking for

46:19

a man or man of looking for a woman.

46:22

Knock us enough. Or.

46:25

And add might feature and

46:27

M W C seeking sbs.

46:29

For. In an essay, two Ns.

46:32

That. Would be a married white couple

46:34

looking for a single black female. Free.

46:37

No strings attached, one night stand,

46:40

If you saw a woman advertising a Gf,

46:42

the. That's. Girlfriend Experience.

46:45

Or any number of enticing massages at

46:47

her place, right? yours? Well

46:49

that might be a consenting adults

46:51

seeking and to exchange physical pleasure

46:54

for Us dollars. Adult

46:56

ads like these have always existed

46:58

at the edge of First Amendment

47:00

protection. Because the language used was

47:02

often ambiguous and a specific services

47:04

offered for bunny a bit unclear,

47:06

publishers had a level of deniability.

47:09

Them at these ads were protected

47:11

by free speech rights. The government

47:13

couldn't prove this publishers new. The

47:15

ads were advertising a legal services.

47:18

For. The as really evil. Protected.

47:20

By the First Amendment. Federal.

47:22

Judges of rule that if the government

47:24

banned ambiguous as it would deprive rights

47:27

from the people who aren't selling sex

47:29

in a gray zone, everyone gets just

47:31

so. it was in the newspapers interest

47:34

to keep things hazy, but it was

47:36

no secret that sex workers advertised in

47:38

the back pages of all weeklies we

47:41

also six after this including police and

47:43

prosecutors. If the world's oldest profession advertised

47:45

in the back pages the papers the

47:48

you could find a bars and clubs

47:50

or them. whatever. That.

47:55

Blind Eye Approach started shift in the

47:57

mid nineties. When. Of Craig Newmark

47:59

Korea. The website. It allowed people

48:01

to put classified ads. For. Free.

48:04

He called it. Craig's. List he

48:06

charged car and smidge dealers. And.

48:09

For help wanted and real estate ads.

48:12

Everything else. whether you are so

48:14

in your couch, for renting out

48:16

your bicycle, releasing access to your

48:18

body, That was all free. Craig's.

48:21

List of homely, no frills

48:23

website suck The marrow of

48:25

American journalism. In

48:27

Nineteen Eighty Five Newspaper classified ad

48:29

revenue to the United States. Totaled.

48:32

About twelve point five

48:35

billion dollars. Craig's

48:37

list. Getting pleasing school in that

48:39

money. Back for Mike Lacy Gym

48:42

Organ Started their own website and

48:44

keeps Craig's list so they could

48:46

maintain the classified ad business. Key

48:49

part of that money. We started

48:51

in two thousand for back gates

48:53

because we knew that the class

48:56

where Jesus was going away. Disclaimers:

48:58

that's where we did back page.com

49:00

The new site looked a lot

49:03

like Craig's list. It

49:05

at the Scene categories, the scene,

49:07

types of ads, cars for sale,

49:09

apartments for a job. Ads wasn't

49:11

as big as Craig's list that

49:13

even close really but it was

49:15

growth and we off to the

49:17

races. And just like the ads

49:19

in the back pages of the

49:21

papers that the train ads for

49:23

escorts and for other sex workers,

49:25

the As even used many of

49:27

the seems to me veiled cool

49:29

as the classified ads in the

49:31

backseat of the weeklies our streets

49:34

was A.that silly. Backward soreness within

49:36

a few years back page was

49:38

in every city in America just

49:40

like racist. And wouldn't you know

49:42

that these was mincing money while

49:44

we were reporting? Sunday Times papers

49:46

be may not have worked for

49:49

Back Page, but as writers really

49:51

seem Larkins newspapers, it helped to

49:53

cover paychecks. Ultimately

49:57

back page became a problem. A.

50:00

Legal problem for make lazy and gym

50:02

larkin. For. Decades: police

50:04

and politicians and moral crusaders.

50:06

Tolerated. The ads in the back about weeklies.

50:09

Small. Protest popped up here in their. Police.

50:11

Ran things targeting sex workers and johns now

50:13

and again. But. Nobody clamor

50:15

to shut down all these alternative

50:18

newspapers nationwide. Back.

50:20

Hades was different. As.

50:22

It grew to thirty million as a year

50:24

worldwide. The. Site started getting

50:26

the attention a some very powerful people

50:29

back page.com me to shut itself down

50:31

Before she was the Vice President of

50:33

the United States, before she was a

50:35

Us Senator. Com Ela Harris with

50:37

the Attorney General of California and back

50:39

then. She. Took direct aim at

50:41

back page. When it has

50:43

created as it's business model that

50:46

profiting off the selling of human

50:48

beings and the purchase human beings.

50:51

After. Comma Harris became a Us

50:53

Senator. See and other senators pushed

50:55

an extraordinary bipartisan effort to pressure

50:57

the Justice Department to go after

50:59

back pains lazy and Larkin recall

51:01

the Capitol hill to testify. The

51:03

Justice Department came down on them

51:06

with allegations that they were profiting

51:08

from such. They.

51:10

Don't scare me. To

51:12

earn. Did. For just

51:15

too scary. Debonair

51:17

Rufus. Ever. Forget.

51:21

We were told was was legal. Told.

51:24

Repeatedly use legal. We've had

51:27

judges federal judges ruled. That.

51:29

It was legal and now.

51:32

They still. Want. To

51:34

put us away. By

51:38

take the pressure. When.

51:41

Least he was thrown in jail after that F

51:43

B I read the told him he couldn't be

51:45

in the general population for his own safety, so

51:47

it's akin to a solitary so. In

51:50

that so he sound a book.

51:53

The book was the Guns of August by

51:55

Barbara Tuchman. Published. In Nineteen

51:57

Sixty Two, it's a celebrated plus.

52:00

Prize winning history of Start Cold or

52:02

One Turns out. It's. A

52:04

book that least he knows. well. It's.

52:06

Books he used to hand out was raiders

52:08

I'm sure the writer so what to see

52:10

talking about. He flew all the way down

52:12

here to to was just an abortion is

52:15

what is this f to do with getting

52:17

a story? The guns of August explains the

52:19

Germany and France new a war was inevitable.

52:22

Both. Sides prepared to beat the other. For.

52:24

Decades. And both sides

52:27

convinced themselves that they'd with. Germany.

52:30

Had a massive army and the biggest comes

52:32

the world had ever seen. France.

52:35

Meanwhile. Was. Certain he could

52:37

sort a German invasion. Through. It's

52:39

sheer. French. This. Francis.

52:42

Plan was basically. Come. At

52:45

me Bro. Lacy. Randomly finding

52:47

the guns of August at his darkest

52:49

moment sounded like a set up. For.

52:52

A New Time Story. A. Lucky

52:54

Detail but gestures toward the speaker.

52:56

Truth. We. Naturally see to

52:58

pick up the metaphor. For

53:00

you France or Germany. And

53:03

Belgium. Germany.

53:06

Told neutral Belgium to lay down arms

53:08

and let German forces pass through to

53:10

France or else. Instead,

53:13

the Belgian swallowed hard and thought that.

53:15

The. Germans much the anyway pulverizing

53:18

Belgium, an atrocity that galvanized

53:20

other countries, including the U

53:22

S to join the fight.

53:24

That's what really got World

53:26

War One going. Belgium's valiant

53:28

stand against an unstoppable machine.

53:32

So at least these reads

53:34

isn't France. We're

53:37

friends you me, and billions

53:39

of people online every one

53:41

a Facebook, Instagram, tic toc

53:44

Reddit Politicians want more. Say

53:46

over who can do what on the

53:48

internet They proposed law that would restrict

53:50

with platforms and users can post but

53:52

clearly the Us government isn't for in

53:54

the book. And say Mark Zuckerberg and

53:56

Madam That would mean confronting an army

53:58

of lobbyists and lawyers. And

54:00

a user base that includes the majority of Americans.

54:04

In Laces Need the government

54:06

is hitting him and said

54:08

the smaller target the would

54:10

be pushover to lacy. The

54:12

back page case isn't really

54:14

about back page or prostitution

54:16

or sex trafficking or the

54:19

gray areas of advertising sex

54:21

work. For him, the prosecution

54:23

of Back Page is really

54:25

about free speech online. the

54:27

Us government is aiming it's

54:29

unstoppable machine. At the larger

54:31

internet. And you know who's standing in

54:33

the way? My. Place. Whether.

54:37

Or not you agree that Michael easy as a

54:39

martyr. He is right about

54:41

to fix. He. Is

54:43

absolutely outmatched. And

54:47

yet by fighting back anyway? He

54:49

has the whole world watching. Ah

54:52

builder it didn't work out zebra well for Belgium fell

54:55

as work as a big well for rates as. Sam

55:02

I Fling Trevor Air and Sea

55:04

and and Michael Mooney or the

55:06

host of Hold Fast a brand

55:08

new nine part series from Audible

55:10

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

55:15

That's it for this week's show

55:17

on the Media's produced by Eloise

55:19

Blondie, oh Molly Rosen, Rebecca Clark

55:21

calendar and can't Islam's with help

55:23

from Schon Merchants are technical director

55:25

is Jennifer Months in our engineers

55:27

this week or Andrew Nerve ya

55:29

know and Brendan Dolphins. Tatsuya Rogers

55:32

is our executive producer On the

55:34

Media is a production of W

55:36

N Y C Studios Brick Lab

55:38

soon. We'll be back next week.

55:40

I'm like alone sir. You

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