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1:59

more Hi everyone

2:08

from New York

2:10

Magazine and the

2:13

Vox Global Podcast

2:15

Network. This is On with

2:18

Kara Swisher and I'm Kara

2:20

Swisher. My guest today is

2:22

comedian, writer, showrunner and political activist,

2:24

Ilana Glaser. I've been watching Glaser

2:26

since her hit Comedy Central show,

2:28

Broad City, which she wrote and

2:30

starred in together with her longtime

2:32

collaborator, Abby Jacobson. Ilana has

2:34

a new movie, Babes, about getting pregnant after

2:37

a one night stand and choosing to become

2:39

a single mom. She and her best friend

2:41

played by Michelle Butteau go through a lot

2:43

in those nine months. Those months were

2:45

the best of my long life, so

2:48

I have some notes for Ilana. I

2:50

also want to talk to her about her

2:52

media journey from her early days of YouTube

2:54

sketch comedy to TV to the big screen.

2:56

And we're obviously going to talk about politics.

2:59

Ilana is not just a weed

3:01

smoking comedian. She's also an activist

3:03

in 2016. She co-founded the Generator

3:05

Collective, a nonprofit that aims to

3:07

help voters get more informed about

3:09

the issues and more involved in the

3:11

political process. We'll talk about this

3:14

election cycle and how it gels with her comedy

3:16

and what the hell is funny anymore. Our

3:19

question this week was an obvious choice.

3:21

It comes from Anne Lamott, whose first

3:23

big hit was a confessional memoir, operating

3:25

instructions about the trials and tribulations of

3:28

being a single mother. And it was

3:30

the single biggest influence on me starting

3:32

on my journey of motherhood, which has

3:34

lasted a very long time. She

3:36

and I fortuitously had brunch on Sunday

3:39

with two of my forecords. And we

3:41

talked about motherhood and more. I can't

3:43

wait to hear Ilana's thoughts on that.

3:56

I'm hearing your beautiful child in the background.

4:00

Let's point that out. That's

4:03

a one kid. That's amazing. That's an

4:05

astonishing situation. Yeah, that's

4:07

one child who's vocal and

4:09

has a lot

4:11

of agency. And I suppose

4:14

in a way feels she should be here with

4:16

us. Yeah, well, the weird way and you don't

4:18

have a lot to say, three years old, right?

4:20

Is that correct? Three years old, yeah, almost a

4:22

month shy. Yeah, I have a two and a

4:24

two and a half year old and a four

4:26

and a half year old, 19

4:28

year old and a 21 year old. So wow,

4:30

it's, it's very noisy when they're all here in

4:33

this house. Anyway, thanks for

4:35

being here. You have

4:37

a new film out babes, which was

4:39

what we're talking about motherhood. You've been

4:41

at the forefront of using social media

4:43

launch new ventures. I want to talk about that where

4:45

you see creative shifts in

4:47

that space and also economic shifts,

4:49

obviously. You've also been

4:51

politically active. You've spoken out about the war in

4:54

Gaza. I want to hear your thoughts on that

4:56

in the fall election. So we've got a lot to

4:58

get through. But let's talk with babes. I watched it

5:00

last night with my wife. It sounds like the

5:02

name of a bro comedy, which I kind of like,

5:04

but it's kind of the opposite, but it's not what

5:07

talk about why you called it what you called it.

5:09

We were searching for

5:11

this title, we were going through a

5:13

damn list. And we

5:15

had some good ones. And then we

5:18

had some terrible ones. What

5:20

are the what are the terrible ones? Yeah, I'm trying

5:22

to remember now this is so funny. Mom

5:25

shit was one of them. Oh, wow. Okay.

5:27

Yeah, that would work. And it would work,

5:29

but it was like, two, two

5:31

not dirty, but like, not inviting.

5:34

Right. But babes was like, was

5:36

the one that was

5:39

fitting the scope of the movie we

5:41

were going for, which is a studio

5:44

comedy. You're right. It does. It does

5:46

sound like a bro comedy. And it, you

5:49

know, I guess that's, that's been my brand

5:51

for a while with Broad City, you know,

5:53

with kind of like a

5:56

bro comedy, but we were women, you

5:58

know, but we were right. Right. We

6:00

also were like to deeds and really do do

6:02

do. Do you know it's like yeah dude, where's

6:04

my car and it's. Whatever.

6:08

Feminists Weeks. Because

6:10

for women? but we're like knuckle

6:12

heads are simply. Synopsis of People haven't seen

6:14

as hopeful that it would. It's about. From

6:17

your perspective debate. Is about

6:19

to. Lifelong. Friends who

6:21

are in very different places in their lives

6:23

play by me and Michelle detail I play

6:25

Eden and shop is dawn and on of

6:28

the has been in. And two kids and

6:30

she just had our second. And

6:32

my character eaten is antennae as and

6:34

free spirited and has. No clue

6:36

about the responsibilities it takes to

6:39

be apparent. When.

6:42

My. Character gets pregnant by one night

6:44

Santa decides to keep the baby

6:46

it tests as I phone friendship

6:48

and the movie is really funny.

6:50

And really heartfelt apology.

6:52

I. Really, as it has it has

6:54

a very heartfelt ending which I think this

6:57

has been seeing coming that way but but

6:59

it some have called it the Bridesmaids of

7:01

Pregnancy which I think is meant as a

7:03

compliment but it only. It seems that the

7:06

only way to pull can refer to female

7:08

dominated movies comedies is that the lease for

7:10

some reason why is considered moving. A fantastic

7:13

movie and very funny. And

7:15

up and bro like two and a lot

7:17

of ways, but you cobra the script with

7:19

Josh Rabinowitz while you were pregnant. His wife

7:21

was also pregnant at the time. You

7:25

had a lot of cast and crew who are parents.

7:28

Talk about see different experiences in making

7:30

the movie Everybody Does. Kids differently for

7:33

sir Man I do than other people.

7:35

Did you agree or disagree or come together?

7:37

assume they also contributed or not? Maybe not.

7:40

Yeah, I think for Josh. should I vote

7:42

we were and City Fox or producer who

7:44

had a one and a three year old

7:46

when we started writing this. She really had

7:48

the seed of the idea that came to

7:51

her in a flash and the shower and

7:53

she brought the idea to me and Josh.

7:55

And we were likely love it and

7:57

were pregnant so it's perfect timing for

7:59

us and. I

8:01

think what you're touching on

8:03

is that the scope of

8:05

the comedy is. Spans

8:08

the to away and the

8:10

suffering of parenting. It's awesome.

8:12

It's not one and I'm.

8:15

Actually think it's funny as to have

8:17

both and most compelling to have both,

8:19

but. Yeah

8:21

and the story is focused on

8:23

the friends like this story isn't

8:25

it I would say promo with

8:27

about friends and i was a

8:29

pregnancy and. I'm. Raising

8:32

Young Kids is that. The true. In

8:34

front of which is friendship is

8:37

sustained. Then we started. Putting.

8:40

This. Idea, Together, Susie, Socks and

8:42

Entrepreneur Website but together a list

8:44

of the. Most. Surprising

8:46

things and most absurd things that

8:49

we were experiencing becoming parents and

8:51

being young parents and. It

8:54

was really funny. really really funny. Pregnant pregnancy,

8:56

I was like. Shocked.

8:58

At how I'm. Physically.

9:01

Funny it was, you know, and neither

9:04

shrouded as this, like. You.

9:06

know, almost ironically, virginal, Same

9:08

Madonna likes or it's like

9:11

ah, just on sexy. Mom

9:13

you know as the other end

9:15

of the spectrum who who's exhausted

9:17

all the time and I'm so

9:19

out that was. Really funny to have

9:21

the nuance experience that was sexy that

9:24

was. Grotesque. That was insane

9:26

and never talked about. But the

9:28

thing that kept pulling us. ah,

9:30

and. Being. Able to really drive

9:32

a story was how your friendship saints and how

9:34

you write threat you prepare. For your braced for

9:37

it, but it's. It's it's. Not like

9:39

anything you can prepare for One. Of the

9:41

things that I was noticing is the reviews are

9:43

all over the place. Something.

9:45

Is too raunchy some want? More A most.

9:49

Is. Some love it, it's it's

9:51

I've never seen so many different views.

9:53

Of a sudden they push back on

9:55

for viewers calling it raunchy, I

9:58

liked that dilation see. myself when

10:01

and and and I liked a lot

10:03

of those things and at the pooping when you're

10:05

having a baby I recall that were there things

10:07

that got left on the table because they were

10:09

too much did you think about that at all

10:12

um things got left on the table

10:14

more for length you know and also I've

10:16

been reflecting on the raunchiness and uh hearing

10:19

myself like say it a couple times that

10:21

you know yeah my response is like it's

10:24

raunchy and gross because it's women's bodies and

10:26

we're not allowed to traditionally

10:28

talk about our bodies talk about what's

10:31

actually happening and we are labeled as

10:33

gross maybe I do still side with

10:35

my prior maybe I do still feel this

10:37

I do but I'm also like well that's

10:39

what is raunchy in this world that is

10:41

what is considered gross and if I want

10:43

to occupy that space then I might as

10:45

well be okay with being like it is

10:48

gross you know and and

10:50

we can talk about why it's seen as gross

10:52

but if that's what gross is

10:54

in this world then

10:56

maybe I should more

10:58

um proudly claim it

11:01

but why why do you think people think it's

11:03

gross still because we because

11:06

they do they absolutely do yeah

11:09

because it's a woman's body I

11:11

think women's sexuality and women's bodies

11:14

are seen as gross unless they

11:16

are being um manipulated

11:19

or and controlled I think of

11:22

a woman's uh free

11:25

sexuality and free freedom

11:27

with her body and comfort with her body

11:29

is seen as um crafts and

11:32

like blue in comedy um

11:35

why because of the whole way the world

11:37

is set up um so one of the

11:39

things that you had was this is not

11:41

your first one it was interesting and I

11:43

hadn't recalled this um but this is

11:45

not your first film about being pregnant you

11:48

starred in a horror movie about in vitro

11:50

fertilization in 2021 called false

11:52

positive which you also co-wrote and produced

11:55

um right before you

11:57

had your baby it's pretty dark the main character

11:59

Lucie the had an opposite of Eden. As

12:02

you were talking about, she's caught in this male

12:04

dominated world being controlled by men. Is there a

12:06

connection to babies that are so close in timing?

12:10

It is very serious for me personally

12:12

where I think both positive was like my

12:14

fear of having

12:16

a baby, not only of like the

12:18

change of becoming a parent,

12:22

but also of being pregnant

12:24

and giving birth and of

12:26

entering the medical

12:29

system in this way. It's

12:32

such a vulnerable situation

12:34

to be in. Absolutely.

12:37

You know, I got pregnant

12:39

relatively easily. I had a healthy

12:42

and relatively smooth birth experience and

12:44

in false positive it's about IVF.

12:47

I became obsessed with this fact

12:49

years ago that IVF doctors have

12:51

been found to put their own

12:54

sperm in their patients unwittingly. Common,

12:56

weirdly common. Common,

12:58

weirdly common. Towns

13:00

of siblings because of

13:03

this. You know what I mean?

13:06

Yeah. So that's sort of the

13:09

crux of this movie and the

13:11

villain behind that movie. But

13:13

really I think it was also about entering

13:15

the misogynist medical system and how scared I

13:18

was to do that. You

13:20

know, I had a baby, I was 38 and

13:23

they kept calling me a geriatric pregnancy, all

13:25

the names, which was like, are you kidding

13:27

me? And one of the things I did,

13:29

I got pregnant the first time I tried. So I

13:31

now own a lot of sperm. This is a piece of

13:33

information I don't know if I should be sharing with you,

13:36

but I don't know what to do with it. But

13:38

at the time, I know. Oh, I love it.

13:40

So there were 22 year olds sitting there and

13:43

vintage. My ex wife also got pregnant by the

13:45

way because you're so mad at the way they

13:47

treated us. It was really interesting, including women although

13:49

I had a great woman

13:52

OBGYN. But the

13:54

whole process was very much, it

13:56

was that I was sort of mad and that's why I got pregnant

13:58

so quickly and therefore I own the a lot of stuff.

14:00

What do you mean? You think your hormones are

14:02

raging and accepting sperm quicker because of your anger?

14:04

I have no idea. No, I do. I was

14:07

mad. I was like, fuck you. I can get

14:09

pregnant. I'm not. I don't know. Fully. I'm getting

14:11

pregnant immediately. So how did

14:13

it move from false positive to this? Because

14:15

this is a very, your Eden character is

14:17

a weed smoking, yoga instructor living in Queens

14:19

who has her own business, who gets pregnant

14:21

after this one night stand and

14:23

seems very chill about single motherhood. Even

14:26

though her friend,

14:28

Dawn, doesn't think she's ready

14:30

to be a parent. There are other

14:32

films about single mom journeys that make

14:35

it a bigger dilemma until the

14:37

end really. This one is celebratory. Talk

14:39

about the shifting from false positive to

14:41

this. I think

14:44

false positive was a

14:46

way to do something so different from

14:48

Broad City. Broad City, for those who

14:50

don't know, is a comedy show that

14:52

was on Comedy Central for

14:54

five seasons. Me and my Broad

14:57

City partner, Abby Jacobson, started it as a web

14:59

series and made 35 short films

15:01

in two years before building our way up

15:03

a few years later to get it to

15:05

TV. So when I started Broad City,

15:07

the web series, I was 22. When I ended

15:10

Broad City, the TV show, I was 32. It had

15:12

been a third of my life almost

15:14

at that point. And false

15:16

positive was true to me and my

15:19

fears about entering

15:21

parenthood. And also,

15:23

I think a way to do

15:25

something so different. And after

15:27

a few years, it's been

15:30

five years since Broad City

15:32

ended, I'm feeling secure

15:36

enough in who I

15:38

am personally and comedically

15:40

to return to my

15:45

big comedy, big heart, big

15:47

comedy, big feelings, Ruth. I'm

15:49

still finding myself outside of Broad City,

15:51

especially because I

15:55

was so Alana Wexler and I am so

15:57

Eden in this movie and we change as

16:00

we started off this conversation like we

16:02

change. What remains and what

16:04

changes is something I'm still noticing.

16:07

There are similar characters, but not

16:09

the same, I would say. Yeah.

16:11

There's a bit of a hyper

16:13

manic energy in Broad City. Something

16:16

I've been noticing

16:18

is that BABES is

16:22

able to hold more loss than

16:24

Broad City was. Broad City was

16:27

so the denial of loss that

16:29

comes with adulthood. Right

16:33

when our characters are ready to

16:36

individuate, we end the show and

16:38

the whole movie, BABES

16:41

is about the separation. In

16:45

2019, part of what was so

16:49

painful about the end of Broad City was that we

16:53

lost our

16:55

dear friend, the late great Kevin

16:57

Barnett, a fantastic,

17:00

talk about miracle, a miraculous

17:03

human being. Just one of my best friends, Josh's

17:05

best friend and writing partner. Kevin

17:10

died the day season

17:12

five premiered. It was

17:15

so strange and

17:18

that was the first big loss

17:20

I've ever had like that. I think

17:22

Josh too and we started writing this

17:24

in 2021, so

17:26

it had only been two years at this

17:29

point, but the character of Claude is based

17:31

on Kevin. We realized what

17:33

we were trying to talk about was the loss

17:35

of friendship from that experience and that loss. Yeah,

17:39

I think this movie is able to hold that

17:41

more and certainly more than false positive. One

17:47

of the things I want to get back to Broad

17:49

City in a second, but one of the things that did

17:51

strike me at the whole setup is that you're very politically

17:53

engaged and you wrote the movie in 2021. The

17:55

Supreme Court's Dobs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade

17:57

was 2022 two years ago. Oh

18:01

my god did you thinking about the some

18:03

change after that? earth. Is if is it.

18:05

Does it feel like that Now decision

18:07

of kids is becoming so political as

18:09

everything else is. Now. But

18:11

does that shifted all that The decision

18:14

of my like body is is selling

18:16

West am the anger that allows you

18:18

to get pregnant so easily. See I

18:21

am I angry. He. Is huh?

18:23

Yeah, Oh, I am. I'm at my

18:25

anger only growth as my capacity to

18:27

hold more loves grows as a parent.

18:30

My capacity. To. Hold that

18:32

anger and is growing as well.

18:34

And them? You

18:36

know, like new met my I

18:38

mean yes the the experience of

18:40

making. It and the bizarre sir we'll

18:42

you know we were impressed when it's when

18:44

it happened and are preparing to make the

18:47

city and and there's a surreal mess about

18:49

it where it's like. I'm.

18:53

You know, I kind of. I kind of

18:55

sagal with shows like a handmade Tail has

18:58

a mind, who's your can, a shell and

19:00

them what to do? You know in a

19:02

way where it's almost felt like satellite? I'm

19:04

like Margaret Funny a deal and he like

19:06

Mitch Mcconnell getting hard watching us. nothing more

19:09

money by not you know like he's loving

19:11

best my eight. They're just like getting horny

19:13

watching him mates tell com. So

19:15

for me, you know, It.

19:17

It was just surreal and that I

19:19

was like this is so. Eerie

19:22

buttons, but. I

19:24

my experience of making art

19:27

that is awesome. You know

19:29

I'm told disseminates is not.

19:31

Ah, it's something that I

19:33

had. My awareness increases around

19:35

gradually that. You know

19:38

it doesn't change the way I make it.

19:40

I I just. It. It's changes, it's

19:42

it's as heightens the three illness as right

19:44

right? We follow until I got fastest freefall.

19:47

One of the things that happen is the. Inner

19:49

with is the idea of of what. Pregnancy.

19:52

Is Right is becoming such a thing, and

19:54

I'm I'm sure you're aware of the pro

19:56

needless movement basically. Elon Musk stance who think that

19:58

having a lot of babies as. critical for

20:00

the world or worried about other, you know,

20:02

other countries having more babies than us. I'm

20:05

not sure if you're aware of it, but

20:07

it's a big, it's a big thing happening.

20:09

Did you think about that idea of being

20:11

at the movie is very pro

20:13

baby, I would say, right? Obviously, did you

20:15

worry about being pro life or pro choice?

20:18

Or is there, you know, did you did

20:20

that enter it at all? Because I'm

20:22

offended by the pro natalist movement, yet

20:25

I have four children, right? And I

20:27

like that. So, so that's, you know

20:29

what I mean? I feel like I'm like

20:31

a mini Elon Musk in that regard. But I

20:33

like having a lot of kids, other people be

20:35

critical of it. It makes me angry when they

20:37

talk about you need to get your sperm out

20:39

there. And I'll tell you tech people talk about it

20:42

too. So we can't let them own. I guess.

20:45

Gross. It definitely, you know, crossed

20:48

my mind. Once I wrote it, it doesn't

20:50

affect the story I'm telling. The story I'm

20:53

telling is coming from within and making its

20:55

way outward beyond my skin into the world.

20:57

Like my job as an artist is to

20:59

protect my process so

21:02

that it is authentic by the

21:04

time it reaches another person's head.

21:09

So otherwise, it's propaganda. Otherwise I think

21:11

it's unhealthy. So if

21:14

I were, if I said, wait a second, this

21:16

has to be an abortion movie now. I just

21:19

think that would actually be propaganda. What I

21:21

think, because there's a

21:23

magic between human beings, there's a

21:26

magic in art, there's a magic

21:28

in authentically made art that

21:30

is like

21:33

an unspeakable will that reaches people.

21:36

So I know that audiences that this

21:38

is resonating with know, like are receiving

21:40

a story about a woman making

21:42

full choice over her body. Well,

21:45

one of the things that is important, though, is this

21:48

friendship, which I don't want to get away from

21:50

for a second, because every week we get a question from an outside

21:52

expert. And this week We

21:54

have one from a guest we had on Reel. Recently

22:00

wrote a book. Called operating

22:02

Instructions. About having a baby as a

22:04

single parent. it's and mama and isn't you know

22:06

her? She only thing I know I've heard of

22:08

her but not that bad. it's so hard Cc

22:11

It's all about having being a single mom many

22:13

years ago so it was very early when people

22:15

were not writing about the topic I'd and I'd

22:17

recommend it completely have a listen to our question.

22:20

Hi. A lotta this is an

22:23

omelette and I love love love

22:25

your work. On once asked you

22:27

question about being a single mother

22:30

and preface it by saying I'm

22:32

someone who loves to be alone

22:34

and I love my baby Sam

22:37

literally more than life itself. but

22:39

there were periods of time usually

22:42

after he had gone to sleep

22:44

when I would relish the quiet

22:46

and that the piece that after

22:49

about an hour of. It I

22:51

would see that feel this sort

22:53

of sheet metal isolation and it

22:55

might be late to pick up

22:57

the two hundred pounds phone and

22:59

call someone. And so my question

23:01

is how do you prepare and

23:03

how do you deal with this.

23:06

Very new. Kind of existential

23:08

alone this as a single parent so

23:11

I was. personally you aren't a single

23:13

parent that your sereno the array and

23:15

and friendship no limits of friendships as

23:17

as the centerpiece of the cell being

23:20

pregnant, having sport have a friend but

23:22

in the end being alone stock a

23:24

little bit about that does that was

23:27

to me that missile the love story

23:29

here. Yeah and and wow that was

23:31

such a beautiful. Question.

23:33

Oh my god, how deep and

23:36

and also viscerally san such that

23:38

you can feel her experience. So

23:41

before I need this movie. And

23:44

while writing it I was like

23:46

I can't imagine choosing to have

23:48

a kid alone. I couldn't imagine

23:51

it. And and. You.

23:53

know cut back to false positive my

23:55

fear of having a child at all

23:57

like couldn't imagine having a child alone

24:00

because it is so hard and so effortful

24:03

and laborious to have one child

24:05

with a partner. I couldn't imagine

24:07

it. And after making this movie,

24:09

actually like once it was, once

24:11

we were like in the edit

24:13

and seeing it and watching it and also

24:16

Pamela's show, Pamela's show, Better Things, I was

24:18

like, damn, that looks hard. You

24:20

know, on set every day, I'd be like,

24:22

you have three kids, three kids as a single mother. Damn,

24:24

you know. And after like

24:27

really putting this movie

24:29

together, like after the edit, after we were

24:31

like doing test screening, seeing people respond to

24:33

it, I shifted

24:35

into really feeling like I do get it. Not

24:38

like I get it like I've done it, but

24:40

like I understand wanting

24:42

that organizing principle of your child and

24:44

you. And like the way Anne just

24:46

said, being alone. Well,

24:49

one of the things is the idea of

24:51

what a family is, obviously. The

24:54

idea of creating these communities of families, because

24:56

this woman is very alone. She doesn't, her

24:58

mom is dead, her dad is not

25:00

present, tries to be, but has issues

25:03

and stuff like that. So she needs to create her

25:05

own version of a family. Right.

25:09

You know, my parents, I

25:12

grew up on Long Island. I live in New

25:14

York City. You know, people used to live here

25:16

in Brooklyn around their entire extended families. We

25:18

don't have that anymore. And

25:21

this idea of the nuclear family

25:23

is that has been fed. Is

25:26

it so isolating. And the way I grew

25:28

up in the suburbs, the segregated suburbs of

25:30

Long Island was very isolated. And

25:34

I remember that feeling as a kid, wanting to

25:36

come to the city, being like, it's

25:38

almost like just a vacuous silence. Like

25:40

what is going on out there? So

25:42

I'm happy to be here, but

25:45

it really is about finding chosen family.

25:47

I have friends from Long Island I grew up with

25:49

who are having kids here in Brooklyn. And

25:52

even just like finding parents that

25:54

we parent the same,

25:58

but we just met. We just had

26:02

pizza this weekend with these, my husband

26:04

and I really get along with these two moms and their

26:06

kid. You know, I only

26:08

know them from having babies and being

26:10

around the neighborhood, but it's

26:12

like, wow, we get along on a deeper

26:15

level and I

26:18

hope we raise our kids together for the next

26:20

18 years. We'll

26:24

be back in a minute. Support

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for On with Kara Swisher comes from NetSuite.

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30:13

want to talk more about Broad City for a second if you don't mind.

30:16

It started as a web series in

30:18

YouTube in 2009 with, as you

30:21

said, Abby Jacobs. For the

30:23

people who haven't seen it, go back and watch the

30:25

shorts. They're two and a half minute sketches. Did

30:28

you have the idea then that YouTube was

30:30

going to get you noticed and then do

30:33

the Comedy Central show? Talk a

30:36

little bit about how it happened. I've interviewed

30:38

Issa Rae about her show that turned into

30:40

Insecure. YouTube is still the most popular

30:42

social media site ahead of Facebook where a

30:44

lot of discovery happens. I know my older

30:47

kids, that's where they watch everything. Talk

30:50

about your experience and do you think it's still

30:52

a path for content makers or

30:55

young comedians? It's so funny. It

30:58

was making us laugh. We

31:00

just met up with Abby

31:02

and her wife in

31:05

the park this weekend. Abby

31:07

and I were cracking up because

31:10

we really thought that the web series

31:12

was going to get us a writing

31:15

job. That was our goal. Elliot

31:17

Page and Alia Shawkat had a show

31:19

in development at the time at

31:22

HBO. Lucia

31:24

Oniello and Paul W. Downs, two of the

31:26

three creators of hacks, who

31:29

wrote on Broad City, every

31:31

incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible

31:38

show. John Stavisky created that

31:40

too. Paul and Lucia were on

31:43

every season of Broad City. And because

31:45

they initially wrote us the day the first web episode

31:47

came out, and they were like, this is something, this

31:50

is something, this shows in development and you should see

31:52

if you can write for them. We were part of

31:55

the wave of web series to TV. We

32:00

were in the water, so we did not know

32:02

where it was leading. And

32:04

we had no idea, no

32:07

idea that we were going to

32:09

make the TV show Broad City

32:12

and we really didn't picture ourselves

32:14

on TV. We were just

32:16

making it more as like a showcase of writing

32:18

and comedy. But there's so much content out there

32:20

now and for example at the

32:22

University of Amherst estimates there are 14 billion

32:24

videos on YouTube right now. Wow. Is

32:27

it a path anymore or not? I

32:30

do think so because

32:32

I think that they did

32:34

the right thing by creating the

32:37

infrastructure to incentivize

32:39

artists. What

32:41

I'm watching and from inside

32:44

happen to the television industry

32:46

is such

32:48

a shonda as my grandmother would say.

32:51

Such a shame. Such a shonda.

32:53

To watch these people come in and

32:56

say we have an idea, we'll all

32:58

copy HBO and then they say and

33:00

now we have another idea, we'll all

33:02

copy the original business model, take

33:06

$50 million a year while our companies

33:08

are failing and not show our stockholders

33:10

the numbers. Oh you have

33:12

an idea to run ads on your

33:14

network? Were you watching

33:16

television in the 90s or 10 years ago? That's

33:19

how it works already. You're

33:21

not inventing something. Again,

33:26

denying the fact that these people are not

33:28

creative in any way. Only destructive, pretending that

33:30

they're creative. So

33:34

all that to say, I love YouTube. I

33:36

think it's brilliant. I

33:40

think it's incentivizing

33:42

and it's relatively fair

33:44

and the only thing

33:46

that is I think

33:48

perhaps boning YouTube's efficacy

33:50

is our attention being

33:52

split on the other apps. Our

33:55

attention like TikTok. Yeah and Instagram.

33:58

How do you look at videos on these? Here's

34:00

your counselor, less than a minute. Is

34:02

that where you would suggest the content maker

34:05

go now? I would advise

34:07

not to follow my advice on how to enter

34:09

the scene now, because I have no idea. I

34:12

think Instagram is more mainstream. TikTok feels like

34:14

off the radar and a little more... Not

34:16

off the radar, everybody's on it or whatever,

34:19

but it's more random. Anyone

34:21

can go viral and then not

34:23

be viral, whereas Instagram feels more

34:26

like your resume.

34:28

You know, it's a little bit... But

34:32

I truly have no idea. I have friend

34:34

Jen Saski, the creator of Hacks, her

34:37

career starts on Twitter, tweeting

34:40

really funny tweets. Twitter. Right.

34:43

And it's just like, what? I feel

34:46

like the culture of the

34:48

currency of our attention has been so

34:51

stolen that I'm not

34:53

really sure how one breaks out.

34:55

How would you do it? The

34:57

thing that I would say no matter

34:59

what is make stuff, make stuff and

35:01

make it better and better and better

35:03

and as excellent as you can. And

35:07

then I don't know. I don't know what medium I would use. I

35:10

don't even... I really don't know.

35:12

AI has been a huge topic in Hollywood. Could

35:16

you imagine using AI in

35:18

future projects for yourself? I

35:21

can't imagine using it. I just

35:23

did this conference of the Wall

35:25

Street Journal and they showed me

35:27

chat GPT's response in the voice

35:29

of me. And I'm like, this

35:31

is just not good. You know

35:33

what I mean? This is not

35:35

good. And I think... Yes. It's

35:38

not good yet. I... May I

35:40

tell you, please. The early internet was terrible. But go ahead.

35:43

Right. It's pretty good now. Right. It's

35:46

pretty good, but it's also... Well, I guess it's better than it

35:48

was. I

35:50

think the plan is rather than for

35:52

chat GPT or AI to get so

35:55

good. I Think

35:57

they're just hoping to scramble the signals

35:59

and... There's audience an.

36:02

Average. Like just below

36:05

average. Content and so that

36:07

our case levels are lowered. See?

36:09

But I think what these

36:11

tech companies are hoping for is

36:14

such an incident inundation as. Media.

36:17

Kurdish city contents that

36:19

our. Brains. Rot.

36:22

And we accept the drivel that they

36:24

give us. But I. I.

36:27

Are among this this nihilistic attitude

36:29

I do have. Faith in.

36:33

Humanity is that. People.

36:35

Will still selects.

36:37

Touching content, not the majority, though

36:39

I just don't think it will

36:42

be completely snuffed out. Claimants Very

36:44

right. I assistance you. Substance does

36:46

Tenth Earth's our hearts. you're talking

36:48

about. The one that things m

36:50

me which I'm a social media as

36:52

a launchpad fear, create a prayer but

36:54

you're also using it for political activism

36:56

and that jar years as talking about.

36:58

In two thousand and sixteen you pull

37:00

sound degenerate of collective. Is

37:03

on the group's. Linked In it says that

37:05

you quote altogether. To talk about the

37:07

government politics. At a level Homer Simpson could

37:10

understand what's it doing now would it

37:12

would have The politics says it. Do

37:14

support candidates explain the same has started

37:17

and that you think it does Now.

37:20

I'm so a certain twenty

37:22

sixteen as conversations. That.

37:25

I was having with hosting

37:27

with ah politicians. And

37:30

activists and trying to illustrate the

37:32

hinge. Between the ideal hims, between

37:34

one. To the other, ideally I'm

37:37

activist to elected official, but you

37:39

know, like in the case of

37:41

Eric Holder who was Obamas Attorney

37:43

General, he became an activist are

37:45

creating their. National. Democratic

37:48

redistricting committed it's and fighting

37:50

with an army of lawyers

37:52

to fight gerrymandering a nationally.

37:55

but gloria steinem i mean he's never became elected

37:57

official but like organize so much you

38:00

know, policy that has been created.

38:03

And then we expanded to dance parties

38:05

that we called Jenny Socials, where

38:08

we dance for 20 to 30 minutes, take a

38:10

pause and hear from

38:12

an elected official or an activist about an

38:14

upcoming election and create a cheat sheet for

38:16

everybody hanging out and dancing, a cheat sheet

38:18

for an upcoming election. And then

38:21

when COVID hit, I was touring, doing

38:24

a standup tour, but adding to every city

38:26

a Jenny Social, so that

38:28

every city could come see me and we could

38:31

laugh together. And then the next night we go

38:33

dance and get a cheat sheet for the upcoming

38:35

election. And that was 2020. So I was planning

38:37

to do that in March and then September before

38:40

the election and hit at least all the swing states.

38:44

But then COVID hit. So

38:46

we pivoted into digital cheat

38:48

sheets to

38:52

get cheat sheets out

38:54

for the election. And

38:56

we repeated that again and again in 2022 and 2024. What

39:03

are in cheat sheets? What do you put

39:06

in them? It's candidates

39:08

for swing states for key

39:11

elections. Down ballot you're

39:13

talking about. Yeah, exactly. Down ballot for

39:15

key elections so that people

39:17

can share. We have like little

39:19

baseball cards for candidates, like something

39:22

just about the person, something they love

39:24

and that they're into and what their

39:26

platform is and their history. Like real

39:28

quick, really easy. Homer Simpson meaning like

39:31

you don't have to know much. I don't know

39:33

much. I'm involved and outspoken, but

39:35

I'm not, let's put

39:37

it well read in the situation. So

39:41

not only do we create these videos just

39:43

where I'm like running people through everything, but

39:45

also digital assets that

39:48

you can genuinely take into the voting

39:50

booth. Do you support specific candidates or

39:52

info about all the candidates? I would

39:54

assume you don't have a Marjorie Taylor Greene

39:57

card for example. No, we are.

40:00

currently a c4 meaning we are a

40:02

non-profit that raises for a political

40:04

party, which is the Democratic Party at this

40:06

point. We do support specific candidates. However, the

40:09

tone, because we're aiming at Gen Z

40:11

and Millennial voters, our tone is more

40:13

realistic. In 2020, it was, I'm not

40:15

stoked, but I'm down to vote for

40:18

Biden. I'm not going to like, you

40:20

know, put like a shit eating grin on my

40:22

face and expect Gen Z and Millennials to be

40:25

so excited to vote for Biden. Yeah, they certainly

40:27

are. But yeah, but you know,

40:29

but being realistic and having

40:31

a little more nuance about the messaging.

40:35

So we're continuing cheat sheets and we also

40:37

did microdosing democracy. Like you don't want to

40:40

trip balls on democracy weeks before an election.

40:42

You want to microdose and build a base

40:44

and get ready to

40:46

do the thing you got to do.

40:48

So you're targeting Gen Z or Millennials.

40:51

How do you feel of their tone?

40:53

They're moving towards Trump. A lot of

40:55

them, a lot of these statistics are

40:57

showing maybe they may be just angry

40:59

for the moment and we'll shift back.

41:01

But it's really quite something to see.

41:03

We're not like reaching into the right.

41:06

We're not reaching into really Trump. We're

41:08

more reaching into like the middle of the

41:10

bell curve of people who don't want to

41:12

vote, who are disenfranchised

41:15

and trying

41:18

to connect the

41:20

dots. You know, to get

41:22

down to reality, what's going to happen if

41:24

Trump wins versus if Biden wins. And like

41:26

at this point, you know, you

41:29

seem aware of my politics

41:31

about the war

41:34

on Gaza and you

41:36

know where I'm coming from as a Jewish

41:39

American, a white Jewish American. I'm not going

41:41

to at this point, it's late

41:44

May when we're recording this.

41:46

I'm not going to tell my fellow

41:49

Americans who are Arab, you got to

41:51

vote for Biden. But I'm going to

41:53

find the people who can

41:56

be swayed and who are like, I

41:58

don't want to. I'm so grateful. out and

42:01

feel so disgusted. And

42:04

I agree. I'm like, this is not sexy.

42:06

I like when shit is sexy. I like

42:08

having fun. I like when shit is hot

42:10

and we can like get down. That's why

42:13

I made fucking dance parties for about voting,

42:15

you know, around voter empowerment. This is not

42:17

sexy. I'm not digging it either. And I'm

42:20

like, ceasefire now, ceasefire yesterday, ceasefire

42:22

seven months ago. I'm right there

42:24

with you. But if

42:28

Donald Duck wins, as I like to call him, because

42:30

I can't even have his name in my mouth. If

42:33

he wins, it really feels very

42:35

over. It feels very over for the planet.

42:38

So, you know, striking that balance and

42:41

playing that court, you know, there's many

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Close. Full turns at mintmobile.com. One

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of the things you did do, which I

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think is is is roiling Hollywood, less likely

44:32

without Gaza. As you noted, a huge controversy

44:35

Hollywood after the Oscars over 1000 Jewish creatives

44:37

signed a letter criticizing zone of interest director

44:39

Jonathan Glaser for his speech in which

44:42

he denounced the quote, occupation of Palestinian

44:44

territories. Here part of another group wrote

44:46

a second open letter in support of him in

44:49

a statement variety. You said, I signed this letter

44:51

to help counter the climate of silencing of many

44:53

workplaces and industries are facing around Israel's

44:55

war on Gaza now and during its

44:57

seventh month. Controversy surrounding Jonathan Glaser is

44:59

just one example. Talk about the climate

45:01

of silencing and have you had conversations

45:04

with people who signed the first letter? Has

45:08

it changed? I heard the two

45:10

sides a lot within the

45:13

Hollywood community. How is

45:15

that bridging that gap? I'm

45:18

like boiling. I'm boiling because

45:21

the thing is like, I started learning

45:23

about the Holocaust against Jews, the Jewish

45:25

Holocaust. I started learning about this at

45:27

like age seven in

45:29

Hebrew school, which is very

45:33

young, very, very young. Part

45:35

of anti-Semitism, I

45:37

think part of the reason

45:39

for the rise in anti-Semitism

45:42

is the forgetting and the lack

45:44

of education around the Holocaust, around

45:46

true anti-Semitism.

45:49

I grew up learning about anti-Semitism for

45:52

thousands of years in our exile and

45:54

a Passover. I know

45:56

the history from being a

45:58

Jew, but I think what's available to

46:01

mainstream American culture is the Holocaust.

46:04

I've learned since October

46:06

7, Hamas is murdering

46:08

1,200 Israelis and then

46:10

Israel's disproportionate response, punishing

46:13

Palestine for Hamas's actions. I've learned that

46:15

not a lot of people know about

46:17

a lot of Gen Z, especially

46:19

a little younger Gen Z than me,

46:21

and millennials don't know about the Holocaust,

46:23

don't know a lot about the Holocaust.

46:26

Jonathan Glaser's zone of interest, educates

46:30

the world about the Holocaust.

46:32

It's, I thought,

46:34

a perfect movie showing us genocide

46:37

from our perspective, which

46:40

is we Americans,

46:42

we mainstream culture are at the center,

46:44

we're staring at our phones, we're posting

46:46

ourselves, we're at the center, and all

46:48

these genocides happening are happening around us

46:50

to the side. I

46:53

was so upset to

46:55

see this letter condemning

46:59

Jonathan Glaser's words

47:01

because he's doing the good

47:04

work of educating the world

47:06

about the Holocaust. People are

47:08

forgetting about it, but these

47:10

people who signed that letter

47:12

so, so badly want to

47:14

remain the victims, remain the

47:16

center of the story, deny

47:18

Palestinian personhood and

47:20

centerdom, that they're

47:22

twisting this Jewish

47:25

educator's words to

47:27

fulfill their own desires

47:29

to stay the center. It's about

47:31

centering because I think if you

47:33

accept what

47:36

the zone of interest is really trying to

47:38

say and what Jonathan Glaser was really trying

47:40

to say, it's connecting one Holocaust to the

47:42

other. If we don't connect one Holocaust to

47:44

the other, then we are ranking people. You

47:47

know, Gloria Steinem's saying we are not ranked,

47:49

we are linked. Well, if you want to

47:51

say my Holocaust is worse than yours, Roxanne

47:53

Gates says the oppression Olympics. If you want

47:55

to play oppression Olympics with

47:58

genocide, then you are staying ranked

48:00

and you are serving the

48:02

genocidal system that created

48:05

Hitler that was supported Hitler's

48:07

Holocaust. But if you link

48:09

us then we can actually

48:11

stop these Holocaust from happening.

48:13

Who wants to hoard the

48:15

currency of being at the center

48:17

of a genocide? That's, speaking of

48:20

Anne Lamott, that's some

48:22

scary loneliness that I

48:24

don't understand why certain

48:26

Jewish Americans want to

48:28

retain that terrifying

48:32

solo position. I want to be

48:34

linked so that we can rise

48:37

up out of genocide

48:39

as a form of organizing large

48:42

populations. How do you come together

48:44

with people? Because you have all these people

48:46

signing this thing and you all signed an

48:48

opposite thing. What happens? How do

48:51

you get to a place of that linkage

48:53

that you're talking about? You've had to

48:55

cancel events because of anti-Semitism for example.

48:57

Oh my gosh, that's true. Yes,

49:01

I was hosting a generated live

49:03

wildly with Amy Goodman from Democracy

49:05

Now when this anti-Semitic, there was

49:07

like swastikas suddenly all

49:09

over the building we were in

49:12

which was like a synagogue. The

49:15

way that I come together with

49:17

people is by

49:20

organizing with others and organizing

49:23

specifically with women who

49:26

seem to be at the center of social justice

49:28

organizing in my experience so far. I

49:31

organized this video to Dr. Jill Biden with

49:33

Cynthia Nixon and she's terrific. She is just

49:35

my hero. She

49:37

is my hero. The engine

49:40

inside that woman is phenomenal

49:42

and to witness it and

49:45

to work with her is such a privilege

49:47

and an honor. It's oh

49:49

my god, it's incredible and Her

49:52

wife and this fantastic

49:55

Palestinian-American organizer, Rania Patrice.

50:00

Though you know we have our

50:02

it's all about context. We have

50:04

a private conversations and then we

50:07

talked about publicly saying and public

50:09

facing is is human Centric is

50:11

his value centric. Where it's like

50:14

we can all agree that I'm

50:16

a child's life is sacred and

50:19

deserve to be protected. We can

50:21

all agree that bombing civilians. Is

50:24

wrong. We. Can most

50:26

of us agree on that? So

50:28

we circled Act of Mothers of

50:31

Motherhood Utah Uma Children which. Tend

50:36

to focus together as you save linked in

50:38

some. Fashion and everybody but a

50:40

lot of people see are happening.

50:43

As member of among everybody and is

50:45

sort of brought out very different. Emotions

50:49

and people that are that aren't logical

50:51

and anyway, Obviously. When

50:54

you think about your ears to by the way

50:56

your sentences of called the planet is Burning but

50:59

you also did the the i think the most

51:01

future belief and it's easier than can do is

51:03

have children I said that the people now when

51:05

I get a cute like a liberal don't believe

51:07

the future. I'm like I have four kids so

51:10

I really believe that the see hide the early.

51:12

Believe in the future, sneer. I'm. When

51:15

you think about that as an errand kids,

51:17

let's get back to the idea of parenting.

51:21

You sessile felt planet is burning.

51:23

Butcher movie is about moving forward

51:25

right? It's a cell movie and.

51:28

It is it hard to the funny

51:30

linear so clearly. thus in politics it's

51:32

a very difficult time right now and

51:35

yet your daughter is on the three

51:37

years old and. You're. Making art

51:39

about. Forward. Movement.

51:42

Yes, out with your teeth doing? or is

51:44

it. Or is it just isn't

51:46

more difficult than ever to do that

51:48

as it's at what. I was surprised

51:50

that this movie was how positive leaning

51:52

it was. In a difficult time, I

51:54

will continue to do this. I. I.

51:57

just find this time still ah

52:00

fertile for comedy because

52:02

it is the tension

52:05

between joy and suffering where for

52:07

me things are

52:10

funniest. I am a hopeful

52:12

person. I do have hope for the

52:14

future, but this since October 7th,

52:18

my perspective has shifted

52:20

almost like my consciousness has

52:22

shifted. And I, you

52:25

know, you say fear on both sides

52:27

from my side wanting a ceasefire now,

52:30

the fear is, is

52:33

that it's, it's coming for us. We

52:35

have this idea in America that we're

52:37

shielded from anything, but it

52:40

is coming for us and it is

52:42

happening now. And because of being a

52:44

proud Jew, I love being Jewish and

52:46

I love my Jewish education. I know

52:49

that our humanity is connected. So part

52:51

of my desire

52:54

for Palestinian safety and

52:57

sovereignty is for my

52:59

own because of the

53:01

connectivity I see so

53:04

clearly. And like

53:06

I said before, I chose

53:08

to have a child because I

53:10

wanted this growth from the inside

53:12

out and my capacity for love

53:15

and wonder and has

53:18

grown so much. And I'm so grateful

53:21

that I have this child. My capacity

53:23

to hold suffering and loss has grown

53:25

also, but I think, I

53:28

think that only makes for

53:32

funnier premises,

53:34

for funny premises. Right. So what's the next

53:36

project that trial and tribulations of toddler who

53:38

you did have that in the movie? It's

53:40

a little boy who crashed me out.

53:44

Yeah. Oh, he's so cute. Caleb. He's

53:46

such a cutie. You know, I'm

53:48

working on it. Josh and Susie and I, we

53:50

just worked so well together. We're working

53:53

on like the next two ideas

53:56

and I have a show I'm

53:58

developing right now. Another friendship-based

54:01

show that takes place in New York, but

54:04

among a different kind of group of people. But

54:08

I mostly am trying to take off for the

54:11

summer. I was touring

54:13

from June, 2023 to May, this

54:15

early May. And

54:19

I really wanna give some space to my

54:21

mind and my body to see what comes

54:23

up, too. I

54:25

find the resistance of making

54:29

love during war of

54:31

rest when everyone wants

54:34

more and productivity to

54:36

be so badass and to feel so

54:38

powerful as this little flame inside. I

54:41

really wanna protect that

54:43

little flame for a few months and kind of

54:45

reemerge in the fall and see

54:47

what I'm dying to say and

54:49

tell. Excellent. I really appreciate it.

54:51

Alana, thank you so much. Sort of thoughtful

54:53

and substantive interview. I really appreciate

54:55

it. I'm like for Clem. I

54:58

love how you say Clem, Shonda.

55:00

I really, I'd love

55:02

to stay in touch, Kara. This is so

55:04

such a special conversation. I really appreciate it.

55:07

Absolutely. On

55:11

with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castro-Ricel,

55:13

Kateri Yocum, Jolie Myers, and

55:15

Megan Verney. Special thanks

55:18

to Kate Gallagher, Andrea Lopez, Cruzado,

55:20

and Kate Furby. Our engineers are

55:22

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55:25

theme music is by Trackademics. If

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Search for On with Kara Swisher and

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hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with

55:38

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55:42

the back of Thursday.