0:00

Hey, it's Alan and I just wanted to

0:02

let you know that you can now listen

0:04

to the ongoing history of new music early

0:06

and ad-free on Amazon Music included with Prime.

0:09

Hi, I'm Alan Cross and for the next

0:11

few weeks of the podcast, we're going to

0:13

dive deep into the ongoing history archives. There

0:16

are more than a thousand shows in there

0:19

and many of these programs have not been

0:21

heard for years. So

0:23

welcome to an ongoing history of new music

0:25

archives podcast with a series called the

0:27

top 100 moments in new rock. Now

0:30

bear in mind that these shows originally

0:32

aired in the spring of 2004, but we thought

0:37

it might be fun to hear where we've been,

0:39

how things used to be and

0:41

how much everything has changed since. We

0:44

hope you enjoy this look back in time. This

0:47

is the sound of history. The

0:52

councils, they ban my concepts and

0:54

they take my money. I

0:57

can't help but have a soft spot for Ziggy's Darnest,

1:00

not that I'd ever want to put on a game,

1:03

but it certainly was sort of fun at the time.

1:07

Apparently we've been told that we've got to

1:09

stop now and we have to go because

1:11

there's some trouble outside. And

1:16

then the kid through this last door and there's this

1:18

guy laying here with a shotgun laying on his chest

1:21

and blood running out of his ear. This

1:24

is another special project of the ongoing

1:26

history of new music. The

1:29

100 greatest new rock moments

1:31

ever. Part five.

1:35

This is the ongoing history of

1:37

new music podcast with Alan Cross.

1:42

Hi there and welcome to part five of a

1:44

10 part series in the greatest moments in the

1:46

history of new rock. I'm Alan Cross. These

1:48

shows are about the big things and

1:50

the small things and the weird

1:53

things that have changed the development and evolution of

1:55

this music. It could be a tiny

1:57

nuance kind of thing that eventually sends things spinning out

1:59

of control. I mean, you've heard about

2:01

chaos theory, right? How

2:04

about the butterfly effect? Okay,

2:06

let me explain. It begins with

2:08

a meteorologist named Edward Lorenz, who ran

2:11

some equations through a computer and

2:13

noticed that tiny, tiny deviations in

2:15

his numbers eventually led to unimaginably

2:17

large changes in the outcome, making

2:20

it pretty much impossible to predict just about

2:22

anything. This is where the

2:24

idea of a butterfly flopping its wings comes in. As

2:27

it flits about a flower in, let's

2:29

say, Northern Ontario, those little wings produce

2:31

a tiny change in the atmosphere, a

2:33

little tiny vortices. That

2:36

sets up a cascading series of changes, which

2:38

eventually add up and spread

2:40

around the planet leading to, or

2:42

so this theory goes, a cyclone

2:44

in Indonesia. Or that

2:46

flapping may stop that cyclone from happening. We'll

2:49

never know because the weather is, well,

2:51

it's chaotic. One line

2:54

is that it's never possible to predict the future

2:56

with any kind of certainty because you can never

2:58

take into account everything that might affect any given

3:00

outcome. Moment number 60 is

3:02

a lot like the butterfly effect. Lakes

3:04

McNeil was a fan of some of the cool underground

3:07

music that was happening around New York in the middle

3:09

of 1970s. His favorite band

3:11

of them all was The Dictators, and he

3:13

wanted to come up with an excuse to hang out with him.

3:16

And his solution was to start a fanzine, and

3:18

that way he'd have a legitimate reason to meet

3:20

and interview the band. Or better yet,

3:22

it might be a way to get into shows free and maybe

3:24

get to drink for free too. So

3:27

he and a buddy got to work, and their

3:29

first choice for the name of their fanzine was

3:31

Teenage News after an unreleased

3:33

song by the New York Dolls. But

3:35

then they figured that the name should have something to

3:37

do with The Dictators because after all, that

3:40

was the whole point of the zine, right? So

3:42

they picked up The Dictators' Go Girl

3:45

Crazy album, and they started staring at

3:47

it. And the artwork contains

3:49

a shot of the band and their buddies

3:51

inside a White Castle hamburger stand. Everybody

3:54

in the band was wearing their old style leather

3:56

motorcycle jackets, and they all looked like a bunch

3:58

of wise guy punks. from

4:00

the 1950s, like Fonzie, Unhappy

4:02

Days, or Marlon Brando and the Wild

4:04

One from 1953. So

4:07

that is when Legs and his

4:09

buddy decided to call the magazine Punk.

4:12

Now Punk turned out to be

4:14

a pretty hot fanzine amongst the underground music fans

4:16

in New York, thanks to features on performers like

4:18

The Dictators and Lou Reed and the Ramones. In

4:20

fact, Lou was on the front cover of the

4:22

first issue, which came out in January of And

4:26

I love the first editorial. This is how it went. Kill

4:28

yourself, jump off a cliff, drive

4:31

nails into your head, become a

4:33

robot and join the staff at

4:35

Disneyland, OD, anything. Just don't listen

4:37

to disco. Educate

4:39

yourself. Read Punk. Pretty

4:42

soon, anyone who was featured in the magazine was

4:44

being referred to as a punk

4:47

band. It was shorthand.

4:49

When someone asked what kind of music you like, you

4:52

could reply, I like groups that

4:54

they write about in Punk magazine. And

4:56

from there, it was just a quick step to saying

4:58

that you like punk music or punk rock. And

5:01

from there, well, it was just kind

5:03

of like the butterfly flopping its wings, if you know what I

5:05

mean. So let me play

5:07

you this. The group that inspired the modern

5:10

usage of the word punk when it came

5:12

to rock and roll. These are

5:14

the Dictators from 1975 with the next big thing. I

5:19

don't have to be here, you know. I don't have

5:21

to show up here. My best

5:23

financial holdings, I could have

5:25

been basking in the sun in Florida. This

5:28

is just a hobby for me. Nothing,

5:30

you hear? A hobby. I

5:32

sat them everywhere that I see. Does

5:36

you know maybe I'm the

5:38

next big thing? The

5:43

Rock Moment number 60, the origins of

5:45

the word punk as an adjective for

5:48

hard, fast, primitive rock. That

5:51

number 59 happened on live television. It was December

5:53

17th, 1977. The

5:56

Sex Pistols had been booked to appear on Saturday Night

5:58

Live that week. off

6:00

to their first ever North American tour, but then

6:02

they got nailed at immigration for improper

6:04

paperwork and with questions

6:07

about various criminal charges. They

6:10

couldn't make it. So in a panic, the

6:12

producers of Saturday Night Live booked this guy

6:14

named Elvis Costello and his band The Attractions.

6:17

You can play on the show, they said,

6:19

if you promise not to play that

6:21

song radio radio, because well, you see

6:23

NBC owns a lot of radio stations

6:25

and we can't have you trashing the

6:27

network with your song. Then

6:29

at first, Elvis said, okay, mate, whatever you say, I'll

6:31

do my British single, Less Than Zero. But

6:34

you got to think that Elvis had his

6:36

fingers crossed because that's not exactly what happened

6:39

that night. Call

6:47

and press the eyes, roll with the swats,

6:49

the good tattoo, there's a big cut to

6:51

it. I'm

6:55

sorry, ladies and gentlemen, there's no reason to do this song here.

7:09

Great New Rock Moment number 59,

7:11

the night Elvis Costello screwed the

7:13

producers of Saturday Night Live.

7:16

Moment number 58 is remembered as the day the

7:18

Clash screwed their fans. That's a bit

7:20

unfair, but you got to remember when this happened. Back

7:22

in the beginning, around 1976 and 1977, the Clash were seen as the most uncompromising and

7:28

the most ideologically pure of all the British

7:30

punk bands. If you looked at them

7:32

the right way, you could say that they were so socialist

7:34

that they were bordering on communist, but

7:37

then the unthinkable. The

7:39

Clash got in bed with

7:41

a major multinational corporation. The

7:44

date was January 26, 1977. That's

7:47

when the Clash signed a major record deal

7:49

with CBS. That was

7:51

bad enough for the faithful, but when they heard that the

7:53

deal was worth a hundred thousand pounds, more

7:55

than 75,000 pounds higher than

7:57

the other competing offer, everyone

7:59

started to think. started yelling, sell out. Now,

8:02

like I said, this was pretty unfair, especially

8:05

since the Sex Pistols were being cheered for

8:07

gouging multiple record labels for huge amounts of

8:09

cash. And the fans

8:11

weren't listening to the Clash's explanation. They maintained that

8:13

they were going to corrupt the music industry from

8:16

within, which they ended up doing,

8:18

by the way. But back in

8:20

January 1977, the howls of punk protests could

8:22

be heard all across the UK. The

8:25

day the Clash allegedly sold out,

8:28

January 26, 1977, New Rock Moment number 58. The

8:49

Clash, from their 1977 self-titled debut album. And when

8:51

we come back, we'll move through New Rock Moments

8:54

57 through 55, all of which have

8:57

something to do with the Sex Pistols. Back

9:00

in a sec. Hey,

9:03

I'm Don Wildman. And on American History

9:05

Hit, my expert guests and I journey

9:07

across the nation and through the years

9:09

to uncover the stories that have made

9:11

the United States. From first

9:13

flight to first ladies. From

9:16

stitching the star-spangled banner to striking

9:18

gold in California, to shooting for

9:20

the moon with Apollo. We've got you

9:22

covered. Catch new episodes of

9:24

American History Hit, a podcast by History

9:26

Hit, every Monday and Thursday wherever you

9:29

get your podcasts. History

9:33

has made this world of ours. I'd

9:35

like to tell you about my show. It's called Dan

9:37

Snow's History Hit. And on that show, you get a

9:40

daily dose of history and the stories

9:42

that really explain just about everything that's ever

9:44

happened. If you want to know

9:46

the origin stories of the cities we inhabit, what's

9:48

in our kitchen cupboards, why you've

9:50

always been drawn to dictators, the deep history that

9:52

explains what's going on, for example, in the Middle East,

9:55

well, we've got you covered. Get

9:57

a little bit smarter every day with Dan Snow's History Hit.

10:00

you get your podcasts. Welcome

10:30

back. This is part five of

10:32

the 100 Greatest Moments in New Rock. And the next three

10:45

events all involve the Sex Pistols in some

10:47

fashion. Number 57 will be familiar to

10:51

anyone who's ever seen the brilliant movie on the Manchester

10:53

music scene called 24 Hour Party People.

10:56

Early in the movie, we're told of and

10:58

shown a gig the Sex Pistols played at

11:00

the Lesser Free Trade Hall just after 7.30

11:03

on the night of Friday, June 4th, 1976. Even though

11:07

the tickets were just 50 pence, less than

11:09

50 people showed up, but those

11:11

who were there were inspired to do whatever

11:13

it was the Sex Pistols were doing. In

11:16

the audience that night were future members of the Buzzcocks

11:18

and the Pet Shop Boys and Joy Division and New

11:20

Order and a bunch of lesser bands that

11:22

would soon be making punk rock for England. Didn't

11:25

seem like much of the time, but this failed

11:28

money losing gig became

11:30

a turning point for English rock.

11:47

The Sex Pistols gig at the Lesser Free Trade Hall

11:50

in Manchester, June 4th, 1977. New Rock moment

11:53

number 57. If that

11:55

early show was memorable, so is the

11:57

Pistols last show in San Francisco. on

12:00

January 14th, 1978. The Pistols

12:03

American Tour had been a complete disaster. Audiences

12:05

were hostile. Sid Vicious kept getting so wasted

12:08

that he managed to get beat up by

12:10

his own bodyguard. Manager Malcolm

12:12

McLaren was a pain and everybody basically

12:14

hated each other. The whole

12:16

event was captured on film in the movie

12:18

The Great Rock and Roll Swindle. It shows

12:20

a band at the end of their rope

12:22

and literally ready to blow apart. In fact,

12:24

they were just hours from blowing apart. Someone,

12:28

somehow, had been cheated. And

12:31

Johnny Rodden had a pretty good idea, but who

12:33

the real victim was. In

12:58

the Disneyland in San Francisco, the

13:00

Sex Pistols played to the whole

13:03

world. It

13:06

wasn't a rock and roll party. It

13:08

was more like a dying horse that needed putting

13:10

out of its misery. We

13:13

raised that horse's head and choked the living

13:15

daylights out of it. The

13:28

Sex Pistols and their final show at the

13:30

Winterland Ballroom in San Francisco. New

13:32

Rock Moment, number 56. All

13:35

right, so it really wasn't their last show, but it was the last time we'd

13:37

see them together for almost 18 years. And

13:39

it was the last time we'd see them with

13:41

Sid Vicious because 13 months later, he'd

13:44

be dead of a heroin overdose. Here's

13:46

one more Sex Pistols related moment, which brings us to number 55.

13:49

And it's not about the Pistols themselves, but about their manager.

13:52

Before Malcolm McLaren hooked up with the Pistols,

13:54

Hina's partner Vivian Westwood owned a clothing store

13:56

in the Chelsea area of London called Let

13:58

It Rock. specialized in

14:00

two things, bondage gear and sex toys, and

14:03

clothing for Teddy Boys, which was a fashion clique

14:05

in London. On a 1975 trip

14:07

to New York to show off their stuff at

14:09

a fashion fair, Malcolm took a side

14:12

trip to CBGBs to see what all the fuss was

14:14

about. And that's where he ran

14:16

into Richard Hell, the former bass player for

14:18

a group called Television and the

14:20

current bassist for The Heartbreakers. What

14:23

drew Malcolm to Richard was his sense of style,

14:25

or what Malcolm fought to be

14:28

Richard's sense of style. Because, well,

14:30

you see, Richard was actually so poor that he'd

14:32

wear his clothing until they literally fell apart. And

14:35

once they did that, he'd hold the ripped scraps

14:37

of cloth together with safety pins. And

14:39

Malcolm thought this was a grand fashion statement.

14:42

So he took the idea back with him

14:44

to England, and he and Vivian

14:46

started selling creations that were held together with things

14:48

like, you guessed it, safety

14:51

pins. Fledgling British

14:53

punks flocked to the store, which

14:55

was by now renamed sex. And

14:57

they started either buying this stuff or making their

15:00

own at home. After all, how tough

15:02

is it to tear up some clothes and stick everything together

15:04

with safety pins? And we all know how

15:06

that played out. Malcolm

15:08

McLaren's fashion encounter with Richard Hell,

15:11

New Rock Romel at number 55. New

15:14

Rock moment number 55, courtesy of

15:17

Richard Hell and Malcolm McLaren. Four

15:38

more moments for this installment, and when we come

15:40

back, we'll look at the beginnings of one of

15:42

the most infamous couplings in the history

15:44

of rock and roll. We're

15:47

almost at the halfway point on our look at the

15:49

top 100 moments in New Rock. And moment number 54

15:51

is the very beginning of the whole Kurt and Courtney

15:53

thing. Courtney Love first

15:55

saw Kurt Cobain when Nirvana played a

15:58

show at the Satiricon Club in

16:00

Portland, Oregon. The date was January 21, 1989.

16:02

They hooked up briefly when Kurt unceremoniously

16:06

helped himself to Courtney's picture of beer.

16:08

They talked a bit and afterwards Kurt

16:10

told friends, I thought she looked like

16:12

Nancy Spungen. She was Sid

16:14

Vicious's old girlfriend before somebody, maybe

16:17

Sid, killed her. Anyway, they talked

16:19

and Kurt gave her some Nirvana stickers

16:21

and from that point on Courtney had a

16:23

crush on Kurt. Courtney

16:25

was friends with Jennifer Finch of the band

16:27

L7, who was a former girlfriend of Dave

16:30

Grohl. And one day, Courtney told Dave that

16:32

she liked Kurt and Dave told Courtney that

16:34

Kurt kind of liked her. Kind of

16:37

sounds like high school, doesn't it? Anyway, that's

16:40

when she gave Dave a package to give

16:42

to Kurt. It was a bunch

16:44

of seashells and pine cones along with some miniature

16:46

teacups and a doll all jammed

16:48

into a box that was shaped like

16:50

a heart. On

16:52

May 29, 1991, one month

16:54

after Nirvana signed their major deal, Kurt

16:57

and Courtney hooked up again at a butthole

16:59

surfer show in Los Angeles. There

17:01

was instant attraction, especially after Courtney decided

17:03

to punch Kurt in the stomach. That

17:06

led to some wrestling and kicking and afterwards

17:08

they shared some drugs, Vicodin and high powered

17:11

cough syrup. And from that

17:13

point on, they were pretty much inseparable. And

17:16

we all know how that turned out. The

17:18

day Kurt met Courtney for the very first time

17:21

on January 21, 1989 in Portland, Oregon.

17:24

Kurt and Courtney hooked up for the very first

17:26

time New Rock

17:29

Moment number 54. Moment number 53 also has to do

17:31

with Nirvana. Before we joined the band, Dave Grohl was

17:33

part of

17:36

a group called Scream, but they broke

17:39

up in September 1990 right in the

17:41

middle of a tour when the band

17:43

was doing their band's solo. They were

17:45

all in the band, and they were all in the band.

17:47

And they were all in the band. And they were all

17:49

in the band. And they were all in the band. And

17:52

they were all in the band. And they were all in

17:54

the band. And they were right

17:57

in the band. The

18:00

bass player bailed because of girlfriend problems. This

18:03

left Dave stranded in Los Angeles and

18:05

desperate for a gig he called his

18:07

friend Buzz Osborne. Now, Buzz

18:09

was in a Seattle band called the Melvins

18:12

and Dave was hoping that he knew of

18:14

any openings for a drummer. Now

18:16

it just so happens that one of

18:19

Buzz's friends was having drummer

18:21

issues. He gave Dave the

18:23

bass player's phone number. Dave

18:25

made the call and was invited to come up.

18:27

So Dave packed all his drums into a big

18:29

cardboard box, grabbed his only bag of clothes and

18:32

headed up the coast to try out for this

18:34

weird little band called Nirvana. He

18:36

auditioned at the Dutchman rehearsal space in Seattle on September

18:38

25, 1990 and he got the

18:41

gig instantly. His first

18:43

gig with the band was at the North

18:45

Shore Surf Club in Olympia, Washington on October

18:47

11, 1990. Now,

18:50

all the pieces were in place. No

18:53

one knew it at the time, but Nirvana was

18:55

now on their way to becoming the biggest

18:57

rock band of the 1990s. The

19:20

day Dave Grohl unexpectedly got the gig

19:22

with this weird little band called Nirvana,

19:24

September 25, 1990. New

19:27

Rock Moment number 53. Moment

19:30

number 52 involves the internet. Webcasts

19:32

and streaming are no big deal these days, but back in

19:34

1994, this was the stuff of

19:37

science fiction. It seems

19:39

that the first ever internet only concert

19:41

was performed by a bunch of computer

19:44

engineers at Xerox earlier that year. They

19:46

were just a bunch of nerds who decided to

19:48

play a gig for, well, a bunch of other

19:52

nerds. All right, fine. But what about

19:54

the first professional band to netcast a

19:56

concert? The answer seems

19:58

to be a Seattle group called Sky. on

20:01

November 10, 1994. It was messy

20:03

and glitchy and the audio was bad, but it

20:05

made history. It was a

20:07

technological triumph. The

20:10

first ever internet-only concert by Skye Christ

20:12

Mary. You Rock Moment number 52. Skye

20:36

Christ Mary. I've never heard

20:38

of those guys, but on November 10, 1994,

20:40

they made history by being the first ever band

20:43

to perform an internet-only concert. Skye Christ Mary with

20:45

New Rock Moment number 52. One

20:48

more for this show, and this one involves a

20:50

riot. On March 20, 1990,

20:53

Depeche Mode was scheduled to appear for an autograph

20:55

session at a record store called The Warehouse on

20:58

La Cienega Boulevard in Los Angeles. And outside

21:00

the crowd, which had been gathering for two

21:02

days, kept getting bigger and bigger.

21:05

By 9 o'clock that night, the crowd was so big

21:07

that traffic was stopped. There were kids all over the

21:09

parking lot and the street. They were up in the

21:11

trees and on the light posts. And

21:13

to take care of all this chaos, there were

21:16

30 security guards. Depeche

21:19

Mode arrived exactly on time, but the

21:21

moment the crowd saw them through the

21:23

window, everybody surged forward, pushing and screaming.

21:26

And there was so much pressure on the long row of

21:28

plate-class windows at the front of the store that it looked

21:30

like everything was going to cave in. Organizers

21:32

tried to keep everything under control, but by 10

21:35

o'clock that night, it was obvious that the situation

21:37

had become dangerous. There

21:39

were anywhere from 20,000 to 25,000 people in the parking lot.

21:43

And that's when the decision was made to

21:45

shut everything down. Well,

21:48

apparently we've been told that we've got to stop

21:50

now and we have to go because there's some

21:52

trouble outside. And I'm sorry, I

21:54

apologize to everyone, but the police are shutting us

21:56

down. When the crowd realized that

21:58

the autograph session was canceled, They

22:01

went nuts. Bricks and rocks and

22:03

bottles started flying. Two large

22:05

neon signs were destroyed. Bits of trim

22:07

and plaster were literally kicked off the

22:10

building. 150 members of the LAPD were

22:13

called in all wearing full riot gear.

22:15

People scattered everywhere, leaving debris and damaged

22:17

cars in their wake. And

22:19

when the dust finally settled, seven people had been sent

22:21

to hospital and the record store was left with a

22:23

bill for $25,000 for the cleanup. It became known as

22:26

the Depeche

22:29

Mode Warehouse Riot. New

22:32

Rock Moment number 51. Now

22:35

let my body to

22:37

the movie. Let my

22:40

hands to the soothing.

22:43

Let me show you the world in

22:45

my eyes. The

22:51

great Depeche Mode Riot in Los Angeles,

22:53

March 20th, 1990. New Rock Moment

22:55

number 51. We're

22:58

now halfway through our list of the 100 greatest moments

23:00

in the history of New Rock. Let's recap the last

23:02

10. Number 60, the launch

23:04

of Punk Magazine. At 59,

23:07

it's the infamous Elvis Costello Saturday

23:09

Night Live episode. Number 58

23:11

is the day The Clash signed their major

23:13

label record contract. At 57, Sex

23:15

Pistols at the Lesser Free Trade Hall in

23:17

Manchester, while their 56th moment is

23:19

The Pistols' last show in San Francisco in

23:22

1978. 55

23:24

is the day Malcolm McLaren was inspired to

23:26

market punk fashion in the UK. At 54,

23:28

Kurt met Courtney for the first time. Moment

23:31

number 53 was the day Dave Grohl

23:33

moved to Seattle. The first internet concert was moment

23:35

number 52, and it's

23:37

the Depeche Mode Riot at 51. On

23:40

the next show, we'll look at another riot,

23:42

a fortuitous act of vandalism, and a note

23:44

on a bulletin board that ended up changing

23:47

music history. And remember what I said

23:49

at the beginning, it's been 20 years since we originally did

23:51

this series. A lot has changed since

23:53

the spring of 2004, so feel free

23:55

to debate this list with others. ongoing

24:00

history of new music podcasts available for free.

24:03

All the platforms have them. Make sure you follow and

24:05

like the feed so you never miss an episode. Plus

24:07

if you can rate and review, that'd be great. We

24:09

can all meet up on my social media

24:11

channels. There's my website, at journalofmusicalthings.com, which is

24:14

updated every day. Plus there's the

24:16

free newsletter that goes with it. And

24:18

I have another podcast. It looks at

24:20

the intersection of music and true crime.

24:22

Look for uncharted crime and mayhem in

24:24

the music industry wherever you get your

24:26

podcasts. And I welcome any emails. Just

24:28

drop me a line at allanatallancross.ca. Technical

24:31

productions by Rob Johnston. We'll talk to you next time.

24:34

I'm Alan Cross.