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That's t-r-y-l-i-f-e-m-d.com. Hello,

1:01

I'm Edward October. Over the years, I've

1:03

narrated more ghost stories, horror shows and

1:06

creepy pastas than I can count. And

1:08

yet the crimes discussed on

1:10

our True Crime podcast managed to scare

1:12

the out of me. This program is

1:14

not suitable for children or the faint

1:16

of heart. If you are such a

1:19

person, go ahead and switch off this

1:21

podcast. Listen to something else. Are

1:25

you still with us? Well, we've

1:28

warned you. Hey,

1:48

Jen. Hey, Cam. How are you? I'm good.

1:50

How are you? I am so much better.

1:52

I spent almost the entire week last week

1:55

in bed. If you think I sound

1:57

a little funny, it's because I still have a little

1:59

bit of that uparuss. inspiratory infection. But

2:01

we're gonna plow through today. Yes we

2:03

are. So apologies. Yes we are. All

2:06

right. Apologies in advance. Let's hear it. And

2:08

then you guys might want to stay tuned

2:10

till the very end because Camille and I

2:13

have something we want to talk about. We

2:15

have a very special announcement. Yeah, something that

2:17

could be very fun. Yeah. All right.

2:20

You ready? Yes. All right. By

2:22

the way, this has been requested by

2:25

our friend Holly Elinor. Thank

2:27

you. I think it was Instagram that she

2:29

contacted me. I'm not for sure. I believe

2:32

it was Instagram. So. All righty. Let's hear

2:34

it. All right. The

2:43

entertainment district of Beale Street in

2:45

Memphis, Tennessee draws people from all

2:47

over the world to participate in

2:49

its blues music and dine on

2:51

its famous mince's style barbecue. Just

2:54

so yummy. My favorite. Home

2:57

of Sun Studios and Graceland, it's

2:59

often referred to as the birthplace

3:01

of rock and roll. So

3:04

it might surprise some people to find a little

3:06

hot spot, an inconspicuous looking

3:08

building where the Latin beats pulse

3:11

through the crowd of dancers. They

3:14

go there for the salsa dancing

3:16

with its fast, syncopated celebration of

3:18

life. Dancers are bathed

3:20

in pink and purple lights and sweat

3:22

the night away. It

3:25

was there in that little Roomba

3:27

room where Heather Palumbo Jones

3:29

would spend one of her last happy

3:31

nights on Earth wearing a

3:33

brand new dress and a big beaming

3:35

smile. She danced for three

3:37

hours with one of her best friends, something

3:39

she might not have been able to do just a

3:41

year or two earlier. But there

3:44

she was dancing with everybody, joyful

3:46

and elated. And it

3:48

would turn out that it was not just one

3:50

of her last happy nights on Earth, but it

3:52

was one of her last nights on Earth

3:54

period. Heather Lee

3:56

Palumbo was born on March of 1980 in

3:59

New York. Jacksonville, Florida.

4:01

One of four children, Heather was a ray of

4:04

sunshine to most people who knew her. Her friends

4:06

say that if Heather were a color, she

4:08

would have been bright yellow. She

4:11

was tall, energetic, enthusiastic,

4:13

and dependable. She

4:15

was particularly close to her cousin,

4:18

Diane Perry. When Heather moved to

4:20

Tennessee to go to college, so did Diane.

4:22

And not only did they go to school

4:25

together, but they got an apartment together. They

4:27

also shared a social circle, and they

4:29

both attended a Y2K party on New

4:31

Year's in 1999. There

4:35

Heather struck up a conversation with a man

4:37

named Chris Jones. He was 10

4:39

years her senior. His

4:41

broad knowledge of the world

4:43

instantly took her. And Heather

4:46

found conversations with him utterly

4:48

fascinating. And on the way

4:50

home from that party, Heather couldn't stop

4:52

talking about this new man. She

4:55

spoke to him on the phone the

4:57

next day, and they started dating. And

4:59

within weeks, Heather moved Chris into her

5:01

apartment. Now, this

5:03

caused a bit of friction between her

5:06

and her cousin, because honestly, it was

5:08

Diane's house too. And Diane was less

5:10

than thrilled with the new living arrangements.

5:13

Pretty quick too. I would be really

5:15

upset to be quite honest. Not

5:18

only was Heather tall, but she was

5:21

chubby. And after

5:23

hooking up with Chris, she started to

5:25

gain more weight. They had

5:27

a very sedentary lifestyle, and

5:29

much of their free time was spent playing

5:31

online video games and eating fast food. And

5:34

Heather began to gain weight at an alarming

5:37

rate. And according to a

5:39

Dateline episode, Heather's cousin Diane stated

5:42

that Heather gained nearly 250 pounds within the

5:45

year and a half. But other sources

5:47

put that number close to 160 pounds. Either

5:51

way, it's a significant amount

5:54

of weight to gain. In a short amount

5:56

of time. In a short amount of time. And

5:58

just on the side note here. I really feel

6:01

gross talking about her body

6:03

and everything, but it's pertinent to the story.

6:06

Even though Heather was depressed about the weight gain,

6:09

Chris said he didn't mind. He loved her

6:11

no matter what size she was. And

6:13

Chris made Heather feel beautiful, cared

6:16

for, loved, and special. And

6:19

considering he never finished college, never chose

6:21

a career, and just sort of meandered

6:23

through life without many friends, it

6:26

was really in his best interest to make her feel

6:28

that way. Tensions came

6:30

to a head when Heather's cousin Diane told

6:32

Heather that Chris either needed to move out

6:35

or they both had to go. Heather

6:37

chose to go with Chris. However,

6:40

the two cousins would patch the relationship

6:42

within months. On the

6:44

7th of August 2004, Heather

6:47

Palumbo married Chris Jones, and

6:49

the couple had two children right away. And

6:52

with each child, Heather gained more

6:54

weight. And since Heather wanted

6:56

to be an elementary school teacher, Chris decided to

6:58

stay home with the kids while Heather worked and

7:01

went to school to finish her degree. It

7:04

ended up taking her almost 10 years

7:06

to get her four-year college degree. And

7:08

according to some sources, by the

7:11

time of her graduation, Heather weighed around

7:13

400 pounds. Graduating

7:15

from the University of Memphis and getting a

7:17

job as a teacher for Memphis City Schools

7:19

made Heather realize that she really could achieve

7:21

anything that she put her mind to. So

7:24

her next goal was to lose the excess

7:26

weight that she had gained from the sedentary

7:28

lifestyle and pregnancies. She

7:31

signed up for a high-powered dance class

7:33

with instructor and Memphis

7:35

police officer Carrie Cooper. And

7:38

if you watch the Dateline episode with this

7:40

is on, ooh, she's a force. I really

7:42

like Carrie. I'd take her to room book

7:44

classes or her salsa classes. I liked her.

7:46

She's spunky. Heather attended

7:48

the dance classes as if they were her

7:51

happy hour. She got off

7:53

work, she went to dance class, and then she

7:55

went home happy. She made many

7:57

new friends who were so supportive of her. and

8:00

they all had the same goals she did.

8:02

She wanted just to be healthier and happier.

8:05

And within weeks, the pounds

8:07

just started melting off. And

8:10

18 months later, Heather had lost almost

8:12

160 pounds. Wow.

8:15

And even better, she landed her dream

8:18

job teaching kindergarten at

8:20

Frasier Achievement Elementary. Everything

8:22

was going her way. Now

8:25

most husbands would have been elated to see

8:27

their wives take charge of their health. And

8:29

most husbands would have been happy for their

8:32

wife's successes. Chris Jones?

8:34

No, not him. He wasn't happy.

8:37

In fact, it's been reported

8:39

that he would deliberately take fast food

8:41

to Heather and at one

8:43

point even told her that he wanted

8:45

her to gain the weight back. His

8:49

behavior became irrational and

8:52

controlling. And one

8:54

of Heather's friends described him as, quote,

8:56

strange and kind of creepy. And

8:59

it's reported that he even cheated on Heather

9:02

and was surprised that there were repercussions for

9:04

that action. And

9:06

as often as the case with

9:08

relationships, the tighter Chris pulled on

9:10

the strings, the more Heather resisted.

9:13

He belittled her at parties and was

9:16

jealous that she had friends. Some

9:18

sources say that their arguments became violent.

9:22

And even Heather herself stated that at one

9:24

point, he knocked her down and tried

9:26

to strangle her. And

9:28

finally, Heather had enough and she just wanted

9:30

out of the marriage. On

9:33

January 4, 2013, Heather moved into

9:36

a rented apartment a short distance

9:38

from Chris on Poplar Avenue in

9:40

Germantown. And it was at the end of an

9:42

isolated road. Aside

9:44

from a year of ups and downs,

9:47

the main catalyst for this decision was

9:49

the fact that Heather had found text

9:51

messages on her husband's phone indicating that

9:53

he was cheating on her again. And

9:56

when he discovered that she was reading his texts,

9:58

he wrestled her to the grave. to pry

10:00

the phone from her hands. Heather

10:03

then filed an order for protection against him,

10:06

but the order was dismissed when she

10:08

didn't attend the hearing. It

10:11

seems that two days before that scheduled

10:13

hearing, Heather had filed for divorce, and

10:16

it's unclear as to why she didn't

10:18

keep the scheduled hearing for the protection

10:20

order unless she thought maybe she didn't

10:22

need it once she filed for divorce. But

10:25

that's pure speculation on my part.

10:28

We just don't know why that happened. On

10:31

March 1st, Chris also filed for divorce and

10:33

asked for full custody of their two children. But

10:37

for the time being, they shared joint custody

10:39

of their son and daughter. Chris

10:41

was obsessed with the idea that Heather would try

10:44

to take the children from him. But

10:46

remember, he was also completely dependent on

10:48

her. After all, she

10:50

was the breadwinner. Clearly,

10:52

Chris felt that he was the victim in this scenario.

10:56

Even though he had cheated on her

10:58

and had physically assaulted her and not

11:00

the other way around. Heather

11:02

tried to assuage his fears by letting him keep

11:05

their son most of the time, and she kept their

11:08

daughter most of the time. Her thought process

11:10

was by making sure Chris had at least one of the children with

11:12

him, he might be better adjusted

11:15

to the new situation. And she

11:17

didn't want to, quote,

11:20

awake the sleeping beast. Now

11:23

Heather was very responsible, right? We talked about

11:25

that a little bit earlier. And she

11:27

never missed a day of work without

11:29

good reason. And she

11:32

certainly would never miss a day without

11:34

making arrangements for a substitute teacher for

11:36

her students. But on

11:38

Tuesday, the 16th of April, Heather didn't show for

11:42

work. In fact, her

11:44

co-workers were really alarmed by that fact

11:46

that Heather was absent. As

11:49

a rule, Heather was always the first one

11:51

there, usually a full two hours before the

11:53

students arrived. School officials

11:56

couldn't reach Heather by phone, so they

11:58

called her cousin Diane, who... was

12:00

on Heather's emergency contact list. And

12:03

when Diane received the phone call from the

12:05

school, she immediately went to Heather's apartment. I

12:08

mean Diane wasn't panicking because she thought Heather

12:10

was sick, Heather flew or something,

12:12

and probably slept through the alarm. I

12:15

don't think anybody really thinks the worst. You never

12:17

think the worst. You don't want to think the

12:19

worst. When Diane arrived to the

12:21

apartment, there was Heather's car parked right where

12:23

it was supposed to be, which was very

12:25

encouraging, right? It seemed to support her earlier

12:27

thoughts that Heather was just really sick.

12:30

But when no one answered the door

12:33

after knocking for several minutes, Diane

12:35

started to get worried. And she

12:37

called Heather's mother and then the Germantown

12:39

police. Diane's anxiety

12:42

spilled over as the police arrived

12:44

and searched Heather's home and they

12:46

found nothing. No blood, no

12:48

broken furniture, no keys, no cell phone,

12:50

wallet, and most of all, no

12:52

Heather. The 33-year-old mother of

12:54

two was nowhere to be found. Authorities

12:58

immediately began searching the area

13:00

around the residence and the

13:02

townhouse the couple previously shared

13:04

at Westminster Townhome. Heather's

13:07

dance instructor, Carrie Cooper, like we

13:09

said, was also with the Memphis

13:11

police. She went to Heather's house

13:13

to have a look around herself. She

13:15

combed every inch of the property. She

13:17

looked in the storage shed, the nearby

13:19

railroad tracks, all over the yard. I

13:21

mean she couldn't find Heather, or

13:24

any evidence suggesting where her friend

13:26

had gone. She then

13:28

organized a search party of all Heather's

13:30

friends and co-workers. She

13:32

never turned up, just gone. Germantown

13:36

police searched the area surrounding Heather's

13:38

residence again on Wednesday the 17th

13:40

looking for clues. Search

13:43

parties joined by Heather's friends and family were

13:45

also called in to help the search on

13:47

the south side of Poplar west of Val

13:49

Verde. Hearts sank

13:51

as people realized that the last contact

13:53

anybody had with Heather was Monday at

13:56

about 4.30 p.m. Well,

13:59

except her husband. Chris. Chris,

14:01

it would seem, had seen her Monday

14:03

night, the night she went missing.

14:07

Heather's husband, Chris Jones, was interviewed at his

14:09

home by the police and they characterized him

14:11

as being, quote, vague and

14:14

showing no emotion. They asked

14:16

him to come down to the station to be formally

14:18

interviewed and he agreed. While

14:21

talking with the police, he gave them

14:23

a copy of an email Heather had

14:25

supposedly sent him. And even though Chris

14:27

claimed he had never known his wife to

14:29

be suicidal, the email seemed

14:31

to indicate that she was either considering

14:33

some sort of self-harm or

14:36

she had run off. The

14:38

email was short and said, quote, come get,

14:40

and then their daughter's name. I

14:43

cannot force everyone with this. Please forgive

14:45

me. It is too much. Please

14:48

raise the children to remember me as

14:50

their loving mommy. I

14:52

don't know about that. Uh-huh. The

14:55

police also checked his phone and found several

14:57

text messages starting at about 1 30

14:59

a.m. Tuesday morning, begging Heather to

15:01

call him and to, quote, not

15:04

do this and never wanted

15:06

this. Based on the

15:08

email he got from her, the text messages

15:10

were supposed to insinuate that Chris was trying

15:13

to stop Heather from taking her own life.

15:16

However, besides his few random text

15:18

messages to her, it didn't

15:21

seem like he was trying very hard to save her life. There's

15:24

no record of him calling 911 for a

15:26

welfare check or to report

15:28

a possible suicide. He just simply went

15:30

to bed. Her

15:33

friends and family couldn't fathom that Heather would

15:35

take her own life considering how much she

15:37

loved her children, how long and hard she

15:39

worked to get her degree, and just how

15:41

hard she'd worked to transform her body for the

15:43

better. It just didn't make any sense to them.

15:45

I mean, why would

15:48

she work so hard for positive changes in her

15:50

life and then reach those goals

15:52

only to end her life? So

15:55

within days, her friends put up flyers all

15:57

over town. During the

15:59

preliminary investigation, Chris Jones kept changing his

16:01

story about the night Heather went missing.

16:04

He made accusations that she had recently hooked up

16:07

with a guy she'd gone to high school with

16:09

by the name of Edward. However,

16:11

when investigators interviewed Heather's friends and

16:13

family, they discovered some

16:16

disturbing information. It seems

16:18

Heather had emailed her cousin Diane on April 12,

16:20

2013, just three days before she

16:24

went missing. The email said that

16:26

she had heard steps in her apartment in the middle

16:28

of the night, and thinking that

16:30

it was her daughter going to the bathroom, she just

16:33

rolled over and went back to sleep, only

16:35

to discover the next day that her

16:37

phone was missing. And

16:40

even though she always slept with her phone

16:42

right beside her on the bed, she still

16:45

searched the whole house and she just couldn't

16:47

find it. That's creepy. When

16:49

she got to work, she used her work computer

16:52

to check her Gmail and discovered

16:54

that all the emails that she had sent

16:56

to her lawyer had

16:58

been deleted, along with all the

17:01

emails that she had sent to her mother. Now

17:05

all these emails just were deleted. Now

17:08

most would agree that for somebody to

17:10

break into your house, steal your phone, delete your email

17:13

is way beyond creepy. Very.

17:15

Mm-hmm. It verges

17:17

on psychopathic and deranged behavior. But

17:20

deleting the emails on Heather's end doesn't

17:22

necessarily delete the emails on the end

17:24

of the receiver. Obviously

17:27

we know who did this, right? It was Chris. But

17:29

did he do this just to mess with her? I

17:32

mean, did he not understand how

17:34

emails work? Right? Probably not.

17:37

Either way, what terrified Heather most was

17:39

that not only had Chris read every

17:41

single email and knew her private thoughts,

17:44

but he'd snatched the phone from her bed

17:47

while she was sleeping in it. That's so

17:49

terrifying. I mean, you know me. You know,

17:51

that's one of my big, scary,

17:53

hated emails. I hate it. I

17:56

hate it. Police also discovered that

17:58

Edward, the man that Chris... Jones had

18:00

claimed his wife was having an affair with was

18:03

Edward Rollerson. Heather

18:05

and Edward dated back in high school for

18:07

several years. However, the two had moved to

18:09

separate states and that pretty

18:11

much ended their relationship, but they

18:13

always kept in touch. Rollerson

18:16

lived about seven hours away from Heather all the

18:18

way on the other side of Tennessee and

18:21

he was quickly cleared of having anything to

18:23

do with Heather's disappearance. They

18:26

weren't having any physical relationships. They

18:29

were just friends. Now,

18:31

Chris didn't know or believe that and

18:34

actually Chris pretended to be Heather in

18:36

a text message to Rollerson. And

18:40

the text was sexually explicit, like he

18:42

was sexting Edward. Had

18:45

they not done that before? Because I think

18:47

I... They were friends. That would be shocking.

18:49

Uh-huh. Now, Rollerson liked

18:52

Heather, right? Always

18:55

pined for her from high school.

18:57

They dated for years. It just didn't really work

18:59

out, you know? Rollerson

19:01

thought that Jones was actually Heather and

19:03

he flirted back. Chris

19:06

also sent Heather's lawyer an email

19:08

pretending to be her. When

19:11

Chris's own divorce lawyer discovered all this,

19:13

he dropped Chris as a

19:15

client. Yeah, I should

19:17

hope so. It's creepy and it's not

19:19

cool at all. Police

19:22

soon learned that Edward was on the phone with

19:24

Heather when Chris knocked on her door that night

19:26

she went missing. Edward

19:29

told the police that from what he

19:31

could hear, Heather was trying to get her husband

19:33

out of the residence so he wouldn't wake their daughter.

19:37

Edward said that he heard Heather say, quote, what

19:40

do you mean it's life or death? She

19:44

then told Rollerson that she'd call him back but

19:46

he never heard from her again. Now,

19:49

Chris's story, you're not going

19:51

to be surprised at all, was

19:53

quite different. He

19:56

said he'd gone to Heather's apartment to return

19:58

some Christmas lights. Chris

20:01

said everything was fine, they didn't

20:04

fight or argue, and that they

20:06

quote drank margaritas and talked. He

20:10

did mention that Edward Rawlerson had called

20:13

his wife while he was there. Chris

20:16

claimed that he did go back to the apartment

20:18

and Heather wasn't home but the

20:20

door was unlocked so he just let himself

20:22

in, went upstairs to where

20:24

his daughter was sleeping and took her back

20:26

to his house. Really? Uh-huh.

20:28

I think that's an abduction for sure.

20:31

You wouldn't call the police to let

20:33

them know that the adults not home?

20:35

The adults not home? I mean he

20:37

wanted divorce, right? Mm-hmm. Perfect

20:39

thing to claim your wife's not being a

20:41

very good parent leaving a small child at

20:43

home alone? Yes. Mm-hmm. He

20:46

said he then returned a third time but

20:49

the house was locked up in dark. So

20:51

he returned home to send those

20:54

half-hearted text messages. So

20:56

according to Chris, we are

20:58

supposed to believe that Heather emailed Chris to come

21:00

get their daughter, email, not

21:03

a text, which would have been, you

21:05

know, more immediate, and

21:07

then Chris left her apartment but then

21:09

Chris went back and got their daughter and then

21:12

Heather came home but then Chris went back

21:15

to her apartment for some unknown reason and

21:17

Heather had apparently returned home and locked up

21:19

her house. Right? That's what

21:21

that's supposed to be. Right. But

21:23

it would make more sense if Heather had just

21:25

driven the daughter to his house and

21:28

then gone home to hurt herself.

21:30

Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. But that's not

21:32

the story that Chris told. And

21:35

the reason for his story is Chris was

21:37

seen by several people driving around

21:39

in the middle of the night while

21:42

his children were left unattended and he

21:44

needed to have an excuse as to why he was out

21:46

driving at 3 a.m. in the morning. Without

21:48

his children. Mm-hmm.

22:00

to release an investigative four-part series

22:02

centered on a cold case from nearly four

22:05

decades ago. At

22:08

first it was just, my mom's gone. And

22:10

then it became, you know, your mom

22:12

was taken by a bad man. They

22:15

found videos of him killing women. If

22:17

you'd ever watched any episodes of Breaking

22:19

Bad, that's exactly what you would see.

22:21

He buried these 11 women and

22:23

kept going out there. He made a

22:25

road point out there. You've got this

22:27

dude saying, hey, I'm going to show your

22:30

family these pictures and like he's

22:32

secretly taping her. The cops don't

22:34

care. We're nothing to them. They

22:36

don't. They're like a piece of

22:38

garbage. I don't see anything

22:40

that screams there's two people doing this. I

22:42

never thought anything was going to come of this case.

22:46

Ever. Listen to the

22:48

Minds of Madness series Who Killed

22:50

Jennifer starting February 4th, wherever you

22:52

get your podcasts. Now,

23:10

because Chris changed his story several

23:12

times and told the police that quote,

23:15

he needed to return to the scene,

23:17

which was Heather's apartment on two occasions,

23:19

the police were able to get search

23:21

warrants for the townhome on Aldwych and

23:23

Heather's car. They were also

23:25

able to get a tracking device for Chris's car

23:29

and searching the Poplar Avenue residence.

23:32

Police found no evidence of anybody drinking

23:34

margaritas. I mean, there was no glasses,

23:36

no tequila, no mixer, and there was nothing

23:38

in the trash. A

23:40

search of Heather's residence by cadaver dogs

23:43

indicated decomposition in three areas of

23:45

the house. The

23:48

police asked Chris to come in for another interview. Looking

23:51

for that interview, Jones left his car in

23:53

the parking garage about a half a mile

23:55

from the police headquarters and took a five

23:58

minute walk to the station. Police

24:00

could determine where he parked his car because

24:02

of the tracking device. And

24:04

while police were questioning Jones, the cadaver dogs

24:07

searched at least eight cars

24:09

in the garage attached to Office Max

24:11

on Poplar Avenue south of the police

24:13

station before quote displaying positive

24:15

alerts for human decomposition on

24:18

Mr. Jones's blue four-door 1996

24:20

Geo Prism. Chris,

24:24

of course, would use the old

24:27

quote, oh, I pick up

24:29

roadkill a lot. Does one do that a

24:31

lot? Well, he

24:33

just used this as an excuse in why the

24:35

dogs would smell decomposition in the car. And

24:38

what he and many other master

24:41

criminals don't seem to understand is

24:43

that the dogs, they're trained to

24:46

only pick up human decomposition. Yep.

24:49

Only, remember when we went to crime con

24:52

and yeah, the canine dogs, that was the

24:54

best thing ever. I loved every

24:56

minute of it. It was fascinating how much

24:58

they know and can smell like one drop

25:00

of blood in the Olympic sized pool. They

25:02

can hone in on it. It's

25:04

fascinating. It's crazy. So

25:07

after several hours of interrogation on

25:09

April 23, Chris Jones

25:11

confessed to killing the mother of his

25:13

children, Heather. He of course claimed

25:15

that it was just a fight that got out

25:17

of hand. You know, he claimed that

25:19

they fought over the cell phone and she

25:22

just simply fell and hit her head. Hmm.

25:25

But of course he would later backtrack

25:27

and claim that she hanged herself and

25:30

that he had removed her body and tried to get

25:32

rid of the evidence of her suicide to

25:34

protect her children from learning the

25:36

truth and to protect their quote,

25:39

marital covenant. Chris

25:41

Jones was charged with second degree murder. There's

25:45

no way to know for sure if the killing of his wife

25:47

was premeditated or if it

25:50

really was just a fight that got out of hand.

25:53

But you got to consider the fact that

25:55

he had stolen Heather's phone and deleted

25:57

her emails before he killed her. And

26:00

so he must have known that Heather would find

26:02

out about the phone theft and the deleted emails,

26:05

and she would have taken legal action

26:07

against him, could have or would have.

26:10

You know, could it be that he wasn't worried about

26:12

the legal repercussions because he knew that he was going

26:14

to kill her? You know, not

26:17

to mention stealing her phone and

26:19

sending himself the quote, suicide email

26:21

sounds a lot like premeditation. On

26:24

April 24th, Chris Jones led

26:26

authorities to where he dumped

26:29

Heather's body. In

26:31

a secluded area off US 64,

26:33

east of Collierville, Arlington Road, police

26:36

found Heather's burned body wrapped in

26:39

an air mattress bound with nylon

26:41

rope. Chris claimed he

26:43

wanted to give his wife a Viking burial,

26:46

even though nothing ever indicated

26:48

that he was a Viking or

26:50

that he worshipped the Norse gods. I

26:53

mean, in fact, he'd been

26:55

reading the Bible when the police had shown up in

26:57

his home. Yeah, because

26:59

he knew what was coming. And

27:02

the Bible was open to the book of Malachi,

27:05

in which God states how much he

27:07

hates divorce. And we

27:09

all know that Chris burned Heather's body to try to get

27:11

rid of evidence, probably hoping that

27:13

there would be no remains left to find.

27:16

And realizing the horrific condition of her body and

27:18

how it looked to investigators, he

27:21

decided right on the spot to suddenly

27:23

become a Viking and say, oh, yeah,

27:25

yeah, it was a funeral pyre. Mm-hmm.

27:28

Because a lot of people do that, do they? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Those

27:30

Viking dolls, I mean. Yeah,

27:32

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Without anybody knowing that

27:34

she had passed. Mm-hmm. News

27:37

of finding Heather's body traveled quickly and

27:40

her friends and family were devastated. The

27:43

Achievement School District, where Heather worked,

27:45

released the following statement. Today

27:49

we are grieving from the loss of Heather Jones, one of our

27:51

teachers, and a great human being who filled

27:53

our school with joy. We

27:55

were notified earlier that we lost Heather. She

27:58

was a kindergarten teacher at Frasier Achievement School.

28:00

Elementary School. Heather was a

28:02

model teacher bringing the love and joy

28:04

of life and learning to her students

28:06

and fellow teachers daily. She brought

28:09

a spirit to the Frasier community that will

28:11

never be replaced. Her dedication to

28:13

her students was evident in everything she did

28:15

and her legacy will live with us forever.

28:19

Our thoughts and prayers are with Heather's

28:21

children and family and

28:23

the entire Frasier Elementary community

28:25

at this difficult time. Heather

28:28

was positively identified through DNA and

28:30

dental records. Her body

28:32

was so decomposed and charred that it

28:34

only weighed 70 pounds. Her

28:38

hyoid bone was broken consistent

28:41

with strangulation and there were

28:43

also fractures to her neck. While

28:45

investigators didn't find any blood in Heather's

28:47

apartment during the initial search for her,

28:50

they did find evidence of blood

28:52

all over her apartment when they

28:55

used luminol, that miracle miracle elixir,

28:57

luminol. When

28:59

Chris Jones went to court, the jury concluded

29:01

that he had premeditated the murder of his

29:04

wife and they found him guilty of first-degree

29:06

murder and he was soon sentenced to life

29:08

in prison without the possibility of parole.

29:11

He was also found guilty of abuse of

29:14

a corpse. He

29:16

of course appealed this case but it

29:18

was denied. Good. Heather's

29:20

family also sued him in a private

29:22

lawsuit because they alleged that Heather's eight-year-old

29:24

daughter who was at home with her

29:26

mother that night witnessed the

29:28

fight between her parents and ultimately

29:30

her death. The

29:32

money the family sought in the

29:34

lawsuit was to help the children

29:37

and since it was a private lawsuit

29:39

we couldn't really find out how it turned

29:41

out but chances are it

29:43

was mostly symbolic anyway because

29:45

they were suing for five million dollars and

29:48

Chris didn't even have five dollars to his

29:50

name. In the

29:52

months following Heather's murder, her mother

29:54

Pansy Swinson became an activist, showing

29:57

up at rallies and races to benefit

30:00

domestic abuse. Quote,

30:02

whether it's raising money for shelters, donating

30:04

clothes for victims, or just letting the

30:06

world know that there are faces behind

30:08

the numbers, my daughter's life

30:11

still has meaning, Swinson said. The

30:14

media was very quick to zoom in on Heather's

30:17

weight loss for being the catalyst for her murder.

30:20

Quote, she was like a butterfly

30:22

coming out of her cocoon, one friend said.

30:25

While it is certainly true, she did

30:28

blossom out of her cocoon as a beautiful butterfly.

30:30

You know, most butterflies aren't brutally

30:32

murdered by their husband, correct? I

30:35

mean... That's correct. That happens more

30:37

than we know, though. Most

30:40

people want to live a good, healthy life, and

30:42

most people want to reach a place where they

30:44

evolve into something better. Nobody

30:46

wants to go backwards. Nobody wants

30:48

to be denied becoming their best self. All

30:51

Heather did was move forward. Unfortunately,

30:54

quote, husband kills wife

30:56

because he's a pathetic loser just doesn't

30:58

get as many clicks as woman

31:01

gets murdered because she lost 160 pounds. Right.

31:05

So something particularly heartbreaking about a person

31:07

dying at the hands of violence when

31:09

they're just getting their life together, and

31:11

just when the doors of opportunity are opening

31:14

wide. This case isn't about

31:16

Heather being murdered because she lost weight. It's

31:19

about Heather being murdered because her husband

31:21

felt intimidated by her success, by

31:23

her transformation, and ultimately by her

31:26

power and belief in herself to restore her

31:28

life. I mean, if he

31:30

hadn't cheated, hadn't been violent, hadn't

31:32

belittled her, he might have been along

31:34

for the ride. And it's possible

31:36

he could have ridden right to the top of success

31:38

with her, but instead

31:40

he'd choose the path of destruction and shame.

31:43

Jealous. Mm-hmm. So if you

31:45

aren't, well, it's control, I think. I think it was

31:48

totally about control. I mean, if

31:50

you might have had to get a

31:52

job, you know what I mean?

31:54

I mean, at one point at

31:57

Dateline, Heather's cousin said... that

32:00

at the beginning, Chris told Heather

32:03

that he felt that if

32:05

her body, if she was in a bigger body,

32:08

that it would be more attractive to

32:10

him. But then, when she

32:12

got a bigger body, he was

32:14

like, oh, nobody's gonna want you. Nobody's

32:17

gonna want you now, right? Because

32:21

look at the way you look. Nobody's gonna want you.

32:23

Only I love you this way. So

32:26

he used her weight to control her. Wow.

32:29

Oh, it's horrible, horrible. But

32:31

I will say that if you are suffering

32:34

from domestic violence and you need help,

32:36

please call the hotline at 1-800-799-7233. Get

32:43

out of there. Wow. Talk

32:46

to somebody. When she knew, you know,

32:48

she knew, poor thing. Yeah, and also,

32:50

I mean, you brought up earlier something

32:53

about, he maybe was a

32:55

sexual thing to feed her, to get

32:57

her heavy. And I

32:59

kinda wonder if that's a little bit of it too,

33:01

and then trying to just control, I don't

33:03

know. It could have been, because feederism

33:05

is the people who become aroused

33:08

by feeding their partners and encouraging

33:11

them to gain weight, which it sounds like he

33:13

did. But whether it was an

33:15

actual fetish for him or just a control issue,

33:17

I don't know. But

33:20

it's sad. I mean, if you watch the

33:22

Dateline episode, let me see which one it

33:24

is. It's on Peacock right now, and

33:26

it's season 23, episode 33. There's

33:29

videos of her dancing in her class,

33:32

and she's got like this huge, huge

33:34

permagrin on her face, and she's dancing

33:37

her heart out, and her body's all

33:39

into it. And I mean, she looks

33:41

so happy, and just, I don't

33:44

know. You

33:48

said he graduated high school, but then never

33:50

really had a job either, right? So like,

33:52

by her leaving, not only were her leaving. It

33:54

wasn't that, it was, he didn't graduate

33:57

college. I don't know about high school.

34:00

But yeah, he was meandering around in

34:02

his life. Yeah, and so

34:04

her walking out the door meant his

34:06

lifestyle just ended, you know? Right. Mm-hmm.

34:09

I mean, immediately, she spent 10 years to go

34:11

to college because she was working and

34:13

going to school when he was taking care

34:15

of the kids. Yeah, that's, yeah.

34:18

I'm not for sure if he had a job there or

34:20

not. Just, I don't

34:22

know. Control is a... It

34:25

is control. Wow. That

34:28

was the request from Holly

34:30

Eleanor. She sent to

34:32

me a while ago, so thank

34:34

you so much. Mm-hmm. Something

34:37

else. Whew, I hate that. Hate hearing

34:39

that kind of stuff. It's just

34:41

awful and happens a lot.

34:44

Mm-hmm. Not cool when you get in that

34:46

situation. So, Jen,

34:49

on another note, I saw...

34:51

So, you put that up here a little

34:53

bit? You put a little something on the

34:55

Facebook. The Facebook. I did, about a little

34:57

announcement. Uh-huh. Wednesday, Thursday,

34:59

I did, yes. Uh-huh.

35:02

I did. Do you want to

35:04

tell everybody? I hope it's exciting for other people. I

35:06

know it's exciting for us, but

35:08

Cam and I have

35:11

decided that we kind of want to

35:14

go on vacation with some of you all. Yes,

35:17

we do. We want

35:19

to do a dark history tour in the

35:22

UK. Cross the pond.

35:25

So you guys can get my accent all the time. We

35:28

want 28 of our closest friends

35:31

to come with us to

35:33

the UK, where we will

35:35

fly into Edinburgh, and we

35:38

will spend three days there, and

35:40

then we will travel down to York, where

35:44

we will spend, I think, two days there, and

35:47

then we will travel on to London,

35:50

where we will spend the remainder of the

35:52

time. Three days, I think, four days there,

35:55

and each place we will have

35:57

a personalized tour. tour

36:00

guide that will take us everywhere.

36:02

We will be on chartered buses. We

36:05

will be treated like whirl tees.

36:07

The hotels are four-star hotels. We

36:09

get one meal a day. It's going

36:12

to be so much fun. And the tours,

36:14

we are trying to surround them around crime

36:16

and... Dark history. History.

36:19

And dark history. Yeah. Little dark history. And

36:21

crime and like in Edinburgh, we're going to

36:23

go on a tour to the underground caverns

36:25

where people used to live. I think

36:28

it's during the plague. I'm not for sure. I don't know. All

36:30

I know is it's creepy and it's supposed to be haunted. I

36:32

read a story where somebody was standing there and something tried to

36:35

grab her hand. Oh, that just

36:37

gave me the goosebumps. I know. And

36:39

then in York, we're going

36:41

to go visit there. There's so much to do in

36:43

this little town of York. And

36:45

there's a way called the Shambles,

36:48

which was actually the

36:50

inspiration for Hollywood's

36:52

Diagonon Alley in Harry

36:55

Potter. And then of course in

36:57

London, we're going to do all things London and we're going to

36:59

go see the Tower of London and all

37:01

the... Well, of course, the

37:03

Ravens. The Ravens are always there. And all sorts of

37:05

other things in London. There's even the final

37:08

tour is going to be a murder

37:10

mystery dinner, which I've

37:12

been to a couple of them and I think they're so much

37:14

fun. We actually went to one in CrimeCon.

37:16

Do you remember that? I do. I sure do. I

37:18

sure do. Yeah. But

37:20

anyway, we want you guys to join us. Actually,

37:23

we need... If we don't get

37:25

enough people, we can't even go. We're hoping

37:27

that we get enough people together that is

37:29

just excited as we are to

37:32

go travel. Yeah. Do you

37:34

want to add anything else? I'm just

37:37

going to say that to know us

37:39

is to love us and we promise

37:41

you we will have a blast. We

37:44

will. We really will. And

37:46

we're not the type of person that's just... You're

37:49

going to get to know us. Yeah. And

37:51

to be quite honest... Probably more than you want to.

37:54

And to be quite honest, if you guys don't come

37:56

with us, we might kill

37:58

each other. Yeah. We're siblings,

38:00

basically. Sisters

38:05

from another mother is how that goes. Sisters

38:08

from another mister. We need you guys to be

38:10

there. We want you guys to be there. It's

38:12

going to be so much fun. We're

38:14

going to post the link

38:17

to where you can go

38:19

and look at everything. It's going to be in the show

38:21

notes. I'm so excited. There's so much

38:23

things to do. It's going to

38:25

be a blast. I know you've been to the UK.

38:27

I've never been to the UK, but I love everything.

38:32

Is it an Anglophile? Is that what I am? I

38:35

love the food. I love the TV. I

38:37

watch the TV constantly, British

38:39

TV, lately anyway. I

38:42

just love it. I can't wait

38:44

to actually go and experience it all.

38:46

We need your help to go. It's going to be so fun. It

38:49

really will be fun. It is going to be fun. Can

38:51

you tell everybody where they need to go to get the info? Yeah.

38:53

I'm going to post everything in the show notes, the

38:56

link. We're going

38:58

to post it on

39:00

our truecrimepodcast.com. You'll

39:03

be able to see everything there. Don't

39:05

worry where you live because hopefully we

39:07

will be coming from all over the

39:09

place and meet up there. Oh yeah.

39:12

If you are not in the United States,

39:15

you can still come. You

39:17

do have to book your airfare

39:20

separately, but you will just book the

39:23

tour package. If you're in

39:25

the US and you want to not

39:27

fly with them, you want to use points

39:29

or something like that, you can

39:31

do that too. You can just book the trip and

39:34

you can pay your own airline however

39:36

you want to do it. But

39:38

I will say, once you go online,

39:41

what's included is your airline, a

39:43

meal a day, your trips

39:45

to and from the airport, your

39:47

trips to every... The tours.

39:50

The tours are free. It's a personalized tour.

39:52

So we are going to get our own

39:54

personal tour guide to take

39:56

us through everything. This really is

39:59

going to... You Europe would Jen

40:01

and camp from Archer Compact Assets. Acts

40:03

as a with the says we get. We got

40:05

a tour company to build exactly what we wanted. Race.

40:08

So there you go. Gonna be at

40:10

the time and we want you guys to. Join us

40:12

in our that time. Come get to know

40:14

us. We want to get to know you. With

40:16

there's to do and has to stop

40:19

at thirty. People. So we're only taking

40:21

twenty eight people. So.

40:23

But he six meals of the first

40:25

sistine to book. Yet he

40:28

went to do they persist team. We're going

40:30

to throw you a little something extra. What?

40:33

Will it be a surprise? Bullet be a surprise?

40:35

May I don't know. Just kind of think about

40:37

famous. Killer that

40:39

operated in Whitechapel just to think

40:41

about that. Some that asleep at

40:43

the harsh or announce. whom.

40:46

So adept these said the first fifteen

40:48

people that signed up. We're going. To

40:50

add is something to your

40:53

portion for free from add

40:55

a little. You know

40:57

outing if you will. Have

40:59

their ego. And how things. You

41:01

also get somebody to commission, somebody to make

41:04

us. All special Prince t

41:06

shirts with a Tcp special

41:08

so that we look so

41:10

everybody's offices see that arrived.

41:13

Oh. Boy a awareness and

41:15

pond Anyway, Go. To our

41:17

True Crime podcast.com and find all

41:19

the information is will have the

41:21

link. I will also put the

41:23

link in the show notes so

41:25

you can access it from there.

41:28

And it's gonna be so much fun. It's

41:30

a once the lifetime trip and I'm telling

41:32

you if this, if we actually get to

41:34

do this, if we get enough people to

41:36

do this, Since. May be a

41:38

thing that we might go more places

41:40

to time ads and. Obese or

41:43

blackness hand run the world that suffered

41:45

from. Will that be them for the

41:47

ground? Yes I do that I it.

41:50

Yeah so you have as he sign

41:52

up until the Twenty First I believe

41:54

you get an extra hundred dollars off.

41:57

The. Trip. if you go on line

41:59

to but. It's only showing seventy five

42:01

dollars. Now see, you'd have to call. And

42:04

do it A! When I booked mine I talked

42:06

to a lovely gentlemen by the name is Jacob

42:08

and he was a lot of fun and he

42:10

was Sunny! And. Is a tough

42:12

to guy. He and yeah easy

42:14

to do it just other it fabric way

42:16

that plans yeah to have been explicitly and

42:19

reach out to us Sen and I This

42:21

is the first. Time we've ever done anything so

42:23

probably if you have a question that the we

42:25

have a cast third if we need to be

42:27

absurd as well. And I think what

42:29

we might do. I haven't discussed this

42:31

with Camille, so it's. The she's gonna

42:34

be just as shocked as you are. But

42:36

if you are interested in it, Maybe

42:38

we can get easier call altogether.

42:40

Yeah and and I will sit

42:43

with his him call and we

42:45

will discuss it and just shoot

42:47

us an email and that's our

42:49

true Crime podcast at G mail.com

42:51

Death. Will have. Maybe

42:53

monthly meetings with everybody that goes

42:55

into go over, you know, protocol?

42:58

Passports. Insurance, anything

43:00

you know, and what's the kind of

43:02

expect. Also, I think we forgot the

43:04

very very. Most important part of all

43:06

of this what set the date? Oh

43:09

yes, we know that. that's. Very

43:12

nice And what are those dates? Again, it

43:14

is going to be June of of Twenty

43:16

Twenty Five, so not this June. We wanted

43:18

to have plenty of time for people to

43:21

save and. Then look up stuff for people

43:23

to do movement I believe on looking

43:25

at up to side to sort. Out

43:27

the I believe it's June Thirteenth to

43:29

the twenty second. Yes, it is that

43:31

of it. Two thousand and Twenty Five.

43:33

So like this and it's about what.

43:35

Sixteen months from now they'll something like

43:37

that. So there's plenty of time

43:40

to save. And. i know you

43:42

look at it it's gonna look

43:44

like it's expensive and i mean

43:46

it is expensive but you have

43:48

to remember that including your airfare

43:50

that's including him a meal a

43:52

day that's including all the tourists

43:54

that's including stays at four star

43:56

hotels that's including a private charter

43:58

bus it's including a a private

44:01

tour guide, like a tour guide

44:03

that's just somebody that we can call our

44:05

own. Really, there's a lot

44:07

of value to that. And we're talking meals,

44:10

they're not just little skimpy meals. That's

44:12

breakfast, we were told that there'd

44:15

probably be a full English breakfast, right? So

44:17

there's your rashers, your

44:19

eggs, your beans

44:21

on toast, your whatever, you

44:23

know? I mean, it's gonna be a full thing.

44:26

So we're not skimping on this. If

44:28

we're gonna do this, we wanna do it nice. Yes,

44:31

we do. And we're gonna have fun. So

44:33

really, the only, the last thing, well,

44:35

and then we'll leave you guys alone, but so

44:37

basically, once the trips pay for it, the only

44:39

thing that you need then is your spending money. Anything that

44:41

you wanna spend, you know? Extra

44:44

meals if you wanna eat. Extra stuff. Like

44:46

for lunches or whatever. It's worth the money.

44:49

And Camille and I are fun. I know we say that a

44:52

lot, but we are fun. Well, we

44:54

can provide references to people that

44:56

we've met, our listeners. That

44:58

have now become our friends because they meet

45:01

up with us and hang out. So that's

45:03

pretty cool. It is fun. Right. And

45:05

Jen and I do like to have fun. So there you go. And

45:08

anyway, we do. We won't tell you about the male,

45:10

you know, the two boys from New

45:12

Orleans. Remember them? We made friends with

45:14

them. We made some male exotic

45:16

dancers. There you go. Well, I think it was

45:19

a little bit more than that, Jen. Well,

45:21

yes, but that would be assuming. And we just

45:24

as friends. We know they only, oh, I know,

45:26

but I'm trying to be nice. I

45:28

was gonna say, they told us. They're making a

45:30

living. That's fine. Anyway, but here's

45:32

the deal. We need your help.

45:35

We need at least, what, 20

45:37

people to even get this booked.

45:39

20 people. So Cam and I have already done it. So we need an

45:41

extra 18. And that's just to

45:44

get this thing going. And then the

45:46

top is 28 more people. So

45:49

to make it go, all we

45:51

need is you. We're just waiting for you guys.

45:54

And this is your invite. What a great

45:56

girls trip. Y'all have a husband out there

45:58

or. boyfriend or girlfriend and

46:01

they don't like true crime but you are all

46:03

about it and Dark history and

46:05

being a nerd like me because I love doing

46:07

that kind of stuff. This would be get

46:09

your best friends together Let's go

46:11

and come along or like me. My

46:13

husband doesn't fly if I don't go

46:16

By myself or with girlfriends. I'll never get

46:18

to go. So That's

46:20

kind of like the catalyst for all this kind of stuff We

46:23

want to go and we need friends. We

46:25

want more friends You know when I feel more comfortable

46:27

in a group than we do alone. So

46:32

We're not wrong, but anyway, yes

46:34

once again if you want all the information I'm

46:36

gonna put it in the show notes and you

46:39

can go to our true crime podcast dot-com

46:42

and it will be on there and it'll

46:44

have the links of where you can go

46:47

to get the itinerary and

46:50

Here's a selling point for me. We're

46:52

not going to be doing tours all the time

46:55

Every stop that we make are gonna have a free

46:57

day It's you're gonna have a free day to do

46:59

whatever the heck you want, right? And

47:01

if that if you want to spend it all day in

47:03

bed, so be it but not us We're gonna

47:05

go and do stuff right? Heck.

47:08

Yeah, I'm all about them.

47:10

Mm-hmm. Yep Yeah, so it's gonna be

47:12

fun and we want you to join us. I

47:14

can't wait I can't it's gonna be a

47:17

blast and it'll just be fun and make

47:19

new friends from all over the place Which is

47:21

what we're gonna happen Yeah And hopefully if

47:23

we do get to go we can set up a couple

47:25

some meeting greats where we've been some

47:28

of our listeners that are over in York

47:30

or London can come meet us at a bar somewhere

47:32

a pub the game plan. Yeah

47:35

Yeah, you just need to get over there

47:37

first. So yep, that's awesome. All

47:39

right, that's all we got I thought we got

47:41

you're excited about this is we are we are

47:43

and Reach

47:45

out if you have any questions and like I

47:47

said, we are gonna do a zoom call for

47:49

those that have big questions So alrighty,

47:52

there you go. Okay. Now remember

47:54

lock your doors and keep

47:56

passing by those open windows. Bye. Bye.

47:59

Love ya For

48:07

more information about this episode, as

48:09

well as all other sources, please

48:11

check out our show notes or

48:13

the podcast website at ourtruecrimepodcast.com. Our

48:16

True Crime Podcast is developed and created

48:18

by the hosts, Jen and Cam. Original

48:22

music and audio mix of all

48:24

our True Crime Podcast episodes is

48:26

courtesy of Nico Zatazi from We

48:28

Talk of Dreams. You can

48:31

reach Nico at wetalkofdreams.com. This

48:33

little discretion is provided

48:36

by Edward October from

48:38

October Pod VHS. You

48:40

can find all of his great work

48:42

on YouTube. Please make sure

48:44

to like and subscribe to Our True Crime Podcast

48:47

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48:49

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48:52

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48:54

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48:57

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48:59

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49:02

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49:04

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49:06

lost without you. Thank you so much.

49:09

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49:14

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49:16

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49:24

Love ya. Bye.