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high-performance computing. To find out more, visit

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northerndata.de. I've

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had so much fun being on

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these adventures, and I really view each one as

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a kind of like an expedition or something. It's

0:28

different than doing a long-term television series, which

0:30

I grew up doing. That's

0:33

a different kind of a thing. That's like building

0:35

something to last. The movies

0:38

are much more journeys that

0:41

you take with some key collaborators.

0:43

They're a little more like voyages. It's

0:45

like you rally everyone together, and you go,

0:47

and you come back, and you kind of

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get ready for the next one. And

0:51

you take what you learned and

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hopefully earned and move

0:56

on. So it's a way of life. It's that simple. Ron

1:02

Howard is one of the most prolific filmmakers

1:04

of the last 50 years. From

1:07

comedies like Splash and Parenthood to

1:09

critically acclaimed dramas like Frost Nixon

1:11

and A Beautiful Mind, Howard

1:14

has built a career as a director with

1:16

a knack for telling stories that stand the

1:18

test of time. A

1:20

Beautiful Mind earned him Oscars for Best

1:22

Director and Best Picture, and

1:25

his movie Apollo 13, my personal

1:27

favorite, was recently selected for the

1:29

Library of Congress's National Film Registry.

1:33

Howard got his big break in Hollywood as

1:35

a child actor on The Andy Griffith Show,

1:38

and in 1985 he co-founded

1:40

Imagine Entertainment with Brian Grazer.

1:43

With more than six decades of experience

1:46

in the industry, Howard is a living

1:48

legend and one of only a few to

1:50

have not one but two stars

1:52

on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. His

1:55

latest project is about another Hollywood

1:57

legend. It's a documentary about the

2:00

life and work of puppeteer Jim

2:02

Henson, creator of The Muffets. It's

2:05

called Jim Henson, Idea Man, and

2:07

it's out on Disney Plus on May 31st.

2:11

I spoke to Ron Howard back in April

2:13

and it's one of my favorite conversations I've had

2:15

on this show. We talked

2:17

about how he thinks his films reflect the times

2:20

in which they were made, why so

2:22

many of his movies don't have a villain in

2:24

them, and how to retain a

2:26

sense of optimism in storytelling. I'm

2:29

Charlotte Alter, senior correspondent for Time, and

2:31

this is Person of the Week. So

2:47

I want to talk to you about your

2:49

upcoming documentary, Jim Henson, Idea Man. Why

2:51

did you want to tell the story of

2:54

Jim Henson? Like, what about him was so

2:56

important to you? Well,

2:59

those characters mean a lot to us,

3:01

the Muppet characters. And

3:03

as a father, his

3:05

impact on Sesame Street is,

3:08

you know, to me significant in

3:10

the development of generations of kids

3:12

now. Right. And I admire that.

3:15

Also, George Lucas always

3:17

referred to Jim as one of the great

3:19

geniuses that he ever encountered and worked with,

3:21

one of the great creative geniuses. So

3:25

when I had the opportunity to meet with

3:27

a family and consider

3:29

it, I was certainly intrigued, but

3:32

I wasn't sure if there was really a story

3:35

in there that could surprise audiences. Yeah.

3:37

And when I began to read about

3:39

Jim, but also go back and look

3:42

at these amazing archives,

3:45

not just interviews, but also home

3:47

movies he made, experimental films, these

3:49

crazy commercials he made in the

3:51

fifties when he was first getting

3:53

into puppetry, I began

3:55

to realize how dimensionalized he really

3:58

was as an artist. how

4:00

ambitious he was and that he

4:03

had this kind of restless creativity

4:06

that was great for all

4:08

of us, but it

4:10

put a lot of pressure on him and

4:12

he remained a wonderful guy.

4:14

Everybody loved Jim, yet

4:17

he was never satisfied with himself.

4:19

And I thought that

4:22

was interesting. That was surprising. It surprised

4:24

me. I could relate to it

4:26

a little bit as a creative person. You're

4:28

never quite reaching your

4:31

highest goals necessarily. And

4:34

despite all the success, Jim

4:38

felt that and it was that that I think

4:40

made him generate so many real

4:43

gifts to popular culture and society.

4:45

And yet it didn't necessarily leave

4:48

him a fully satisfied person

4:50

who then died far too young at age 53. So

4:54

I thought that the realities

4:57

of his journey and his

4:59

process was really worth understanding

5:01

in addition to celebrating all

5:03

the great characters and stories

5:06

he created and told. So

5:09

I understand that you met Jim

5:11

only once before he passed

5:13

suddenly in 1990. What was your impression

5:16

of him when you met him? It

5:18

was a very hectic situation. It was

5:21

backstage at a variety show that might

5:24

have even been like a live variety show. A

5:27

lot of people swirling around backstage and I

5:29

looked over and I thought, oh, there's a

5:31

band. I wonder what band that is that's

5:33

coming in. And it didn't take

5:35

too much time for me to realize as

5:37

the band got closer that, oh no, it

5:40

was Jim Henson. And

5:42

we just shook hands and said

5:44

nice things to each other for 30 seconds because

5:46

I was a fan. And once I

5:48

realized he was there, I got a huge kick out of meeting

5:50

him. But that was it. That was it. And

5:53

so much of this documentary goes into

5:55

the artistry that went into the Muppets.

5:58

But a lot of people don't think that. think of the

6:00

Muppets as something that matters to

6:02

adults. What do you think

6:05

is the cultural significance of the Muppets? Why are

6:07

they so important? Well, I

6:09

mean, they're hilarious. And they were witty and

6:11

smart. And that's one reason why I really

6:14

hope that people go back and revisit the

6:16

Muppets and the Muppet episodes. Because they'll just

6:18

get the huge kick out of them. Having

6:21

some perspective on it, it's also interesting

6:23

because Jim dealt

6:26

with the culturally

6:29

significant ideas of

6:31

his time, starting back

6:33

in the 50s, through the 60s, into

6:35

the 70s, 80s. And he

6:38

used humor, and he used these

6:40

characters in satirical ways to

6:42

shine a real mirror on what was

6:45

going on. Much of that's still relevant.

6:48

Also, it's important to

6:50

recognize him as an outlier

6:52

because he rediscovered

6:55

for all of us the

6:57

value, both in satire and in

7:00

education and in just sheer

7:03

entertainment, of puppets. It

7:05

was kind of a dead idea. I

7:07

mean, it existed in a tiny corner

7:09

for preschoolers only, really, on

7:11

television and elsewhere. And

7:14

so he reinvigorated that

7:16

as a storytelling tool, as part of the medium.

7:19

And then his life stands as

7:22

an example of incredibly

7:25

hard work and focused

7:28

effort, combined with an

7:31

ambition that wasn't driven

7:33

by money. It was driven by desire

7:36

to share

7:38

ideas, to entertain people.

7:41

So I think there's a great lesson in

7:43

his journey and the way he

7:45

handled himself, the way he worked with people, what

7:47

he brought out in other

7:49

people, that just winds up setting a

7:52

very inspiring example. So

7:54

I want to go back to something you just said

7:56

about how so many artists make works that, in some

7:58

ways, speaks to the moment. that they're in.

8:01

I'm wondering if you think about your own work that

8:03

way, sort of looking back

8:05

on your career, if you see a

8:08

kind of overlap between

8:10

the work that you've

8:12

made and the historical moment in which you were

8:14

making it. I

8:16

think it's unavoidable. While

8:19

I didn't put it front and center, I

8:21

might write what I think the

8:23

key ideas are of a movie.

8:26

They're kind of reason to exist, simple

8:29

ideas that I might write them on

8:32

my script. They're almost never about sort

8:34

of being relevant to

8:36

the moment. But it's

8:40

always a factor. When we made Apollo

8:42

13, part of what was

8:44

interesting was that we were now living in

8:46

a computer and digital age, and yet these

8:48

individuals achieved what they achieved prior to that.

8:51

I mean, they had computers, but it had

8:53

the memory of a pocket calculator or something.

8:56

And so as a director, it was interesting

8:58

for me to see them take this

9:01

mechanical hands-on approach and use

9:03

slide rules to make calculations

9:06

and see the way they

9:08

achieved something as monumental as going to the

9:11

moon, even though Apollo 13

9:13

was a failed mission, the survival and

9:15

rescue element of it was as impressive

9:18

as anything NASA has ever achieved. But

9:21

in my mind, we had this opportunity to

9:23

let audiences, in 1995 when

9:25

that movie came out, realize what

9:28

we were capable of 25 years before, and

9:31

that's a kind of a call to action and

9:33

inspiring in some ways. So

9:35

I wanna back up for a second and

9:38

talk about your first experiences in show business,

9:40

because I understand your parents were actors. You

9:43

began your career in acting at 18 months

9:45

old. I don't think that was a

9:47

career then. That was an opportunistic

9:49

moment. It's funny, my favorite of your

9:52

role from that time is you played

9:54

the kid Winthrop in the movie version

9:56

of the Music Man, which frankly an

9:58

iconic role. Thank you. Thank you. So

10:01

what do you remember about those

10:04

early experiences as a child actor?

10:07

Probably one of the reasons that I've dedicated my

10:09

life to this work is that I remember nothing

10:12

but joy around it. It was just

10:14

play time from the beginning. My

10:16

parents, especially my dad, whose,

10:19

you know, his task was kind of

10:21

to be on set with me as much as

10:23

possible, made me feel safe, helped

10:26

me understand preparation so that I was

10:28

always kind of ahead of the curve,

10:30

something that both my brother Clint and

10:32

I really benefited in and

10:34

it was very positive. But I

10:37

was very lucky in the environment that I

10:39

was in. And my

10:42

parents were very aware of

10:45

creating a kind of a

10:48

buffer around the other adults and their

10:50

behavior. Now they happen to be great people,

10:52

but I remember my

10:55

dad, you know, I was probably seven

10:57

years old, eight years old,

11:00

talking quietly to a crew

11:02

member about some kind of

11:04

off-color joke or something that he had told that

11:06

the guy had sort of included me in, in

11:08

some way. And it was all fairly innocent. But

11:11

I remember my father saying, just remember he's

11:13

seven years old and

11:15

he's here to act and also go to school

11:19

and not be one of the boys. And

11:22

so I think everybody respected the leadership

11:24

that he was offering as a parent. So

11:27

I think I was protected in a

11:29

way by a great parent who didn't

11:31

take any of the fun and excitement

11:33

and the collegial sort of spirit that

11:35

you have making a show away from

11:37

me. I had all that, but

11:39

it was a great, you know, I had great experiences.

11:42

I still went through the thing that most

11:44

kids go through, which

11:46

is a very awkward adolescence. When

11:49

you've been kind of

11:51

in the bosom of this way

11:54

of life, you know, if you've been lucky

11:56

enough to be on a successful show or

11:58

in some popular movies. It brings with

12:00

it some challenges away from

12:02

the set sometimes. I would

12:04

be hassled by kids in the schoolyard and

12:07

things like that as a kind of a weirdo. So

12:10

I navigated that. But still

12:13

what happens is when a kid gets to be 15,

12:15

16 years old, suddenly they can cast

12:19

people who are 18 and they

12:21

don't have the work restrictions that

12:24

minors have. And so suddenly,

12:26

unless you're super famous or absolutely

12:28

ripe for a role or still

12:30

on a television series or something,

12:32

you just kind of stop working.

12:35

And so just at that moment when

12:39

people are feeling horribly insecure anyway because

12:41

they're going through adolescence, they

12:43

feel this added measure of

12:46

rejection which can feel pretty

12:48

confusing and very personal

12:50

when you don't have a perspective

12:52

on it. You

12:56

just mentioned this sort of period of

12:58

transition in your adolescence, in your

13:00

acting. What was the moment when you knew you

13:02

wanted to be a director? And how

13:04

did you make that happen for yourself? While

13:06

my dad never directed film

13:08

or television, he directed theater. So

13:11

very early on when he

13:13

was doing summer stock and I was like three

13:15

or four years old, I remember seeing him directing

13:17

actors and guiding them in scenes and things like

13:19

that. So I was aware of the job

13:22

called the director. On the

13:25

Andy Griffith Show, most of the directors had been

13:27

actors. And

13:29

by the time I was nine or ten, a couple

13:32

of them, particularly Howard Morris, at one point

13:34

he said to me, I think you're going

13:36

to be a director. I'm just

13:38

aware of the way you're observing everything

13:41

that's going on behind the scenes. And

13:43

he was right. I was fascinated by

13:45

it all. I was learning how to

13:47

turn the wheels on the camera head

13:49

so that I could pan a non-reflex

13:51

camera. I understood what the sound team

13:53

was doing. I was fascinated by

13:55

the writing process and on that show, the actors

13:58

were allowed to hang around and participate. I paid

14:00

in note sessions. And even as

14:02

a kid, they'd let me sit there and I'd

14:04

pitch ideas. They didn't take very many of them,

14:06

but I would try and never

14:08

felt shut out of that. So I didn't see

14:11

it as a miserable experience. I saw it as

14:13

a kind of a team journey.

14:15

And to this day, I try to create

14:17

that environment on the sets when I'm directing.

14:20

And it means a lot to me. And I think

14:22

it brings out the best in people. So early on,

14:25

I was aware of it. I was being interviewed about

14:27

a movie that I had done. I think it was

14:29

Courtship of Eddie's Father. And they said,

14:31

what do you want to do when you grow up?

14:34

And my quote is, I want to

14:36

be an actor, writer, producer, director, cameraman,

14:39

and baseball player. Because

14:41

I thought it could be a seasonal thing. Well,

14:44

not a cameraman, but I've done a little writing.

14:46

I'm not the best. And by the

14:49

time I hit the eighth grade, those pitchers

14:51

were throwing hard breaking stuff that scared the

14:53

daylights out of me. So my baseball career

14:55

ended with a broken jaw in the ninth

14:58

grade. Right, right.

15:00

Well, so the number

15:02

of iconic movies that you've directed is

15:04

astounding. I mean, you spent the 80s

15:06

and 90s building this groundbreaking

15:08

film portfolio. I'm thinking about Splash

15:11

with Tom Hanks, Backdraft

15:13

with Robert De Niro, and Kurt

15:15

Russell. My personal favorite, Apollo 13,

15:17

which earned you

15:19

your first best director award from the

15:21

Directors Guild of America in 1996. Which

15:24

of these sort of early movies do you

15:26

think really kind of taught

15:28

you the most about this craft? I

15:32

really think Apollo 13 was a

15:34

threshold experience for me.

15:36

Because I loved comedy. I grew up acting

15:38

mostly in comedy. And I

15:40

made the comedy movies, really enjoyed

15:42

them. Apollo 13 was

15:44

the first movie based on real events.

15:47

Right. And I was terrified

15:49

of that. And yet,

15:52

I've always loved history. I've read

15:54

a lot of history and always been fascinated

15:56

by process and how things happened

15:58

and why they happen. And I

16:01

literally on my script at a certain

16:03

point during prep I wrote just show

16:06

it and I felt like

16:08

if I could just convey as many details as

16:10

possible about what it took to go to the

16:12

moon. I had always

16:14

admired movies based on true stories I

16:16

love documentaries there was a

16:18

time in my life when I thought I would become a journalist.

16:21

If I didn't transition into

16:23

either an adult career as an actor

16:25

or reach my real dream which was to be a

16:28

director but the story. Came

16:30

to us and I was anxious because

16:32

I thought it would stifle my creativity

16:34

i thought that having to adhere to

16:36

the facts would be limiting in

16:39

some way and i ultimately found it

16:41

really liberating because the

16:43

details were sort of stranger

16:45

than fiction right. And

16:47

the more i learned about the individuals

16:50

involved and i could kind of surmise

16:52

the psychological state of mind they might

16:54

have been in as a. Navigate

16:57

this and of course you're still putting it

16:59

through a filter which is retelling of

17:01

a story. You know

17:03

it's not incumbent upon a scripted movie

17:05

to get everything right you want the

17:08

spirit of it to be truthful and

17:10

honest and convey the reality of things

17:12

and. The way audiences

17:14

responded to the movie was so thrilling not

17:16

just that it was successful but

17:19

people leaned into it it kind

17:21

of engaged. Their minds

17:23

along with their hearts in ways that

17:26

was exciting it was a tremendous turning

17:28

point and so while i still enjoy

17:30

fiction as a director when i have

17:32

that opportunity i get excited

17:35

about being able to learn and share

17:38

stories that really happen. More

17:45

with the brilliant filmmaker Ron Howard when

17:47

we come back. So

18:05

speaking of true stories that sort

18:07

of are about specific moments in

18:09

history, tell me about Frost Nixon,

18:11

because that's another one of your

18:13

stranger than fiction, true stories

18:16

that have kind of become your specialty. Well,

18:18

first of all, it's a great script by Peter

18:20

Morgan. It was a play. And

18:23

Peter was a screenwriter first. And this

18:25

was his first play. And he was ready to just

18:27

tear it apart and start over to try to open

18:30

it up and all of those things. And I remember

18:32

in our first meeting just saying, wait a minute, when

18:34

I saw the play, I was visualizing it. I

18:37

could see it as a movie. It already can

18:39

be very cinematic. Let's not

18:41

destroy something that works. Let's

18:43

build it out from there. And mostly we

18:45

built it around the other characters who were

18:47

around David Frost and Richard Nixon. But

18:50

you asked earlier about,

18:53

you know, movies that I'd made where I was sort of

18:55

aware of what they might

18:58

be commenting on in the moment that

19:00

the film is being made, even

19:02

though it's a subject dealing with

19:04

the past. And this was definitely

19:06

just a reminder to audiences, especially

19:10

citizens of democracies, of

19:12

how fragile it could be and how

19:14

close we came in that instance to

19:17

a president really inappropriately

19:21

seizing a kind of power and

19:23

ignoring the law in ways that were

19:25

undemocratic as well as illegal. And

19:28

it was also a fascinating psychological

19:30

story between these two brilliant men,

19:32

the people close to them. I

19:35

enjoyed everything about it, but it was not lost on me

19:37

that it was part of the power

19:39

of this story. So one

19:41

of the things that strikes me is

19:43

that many of your films,

19:46

and I'm specifically thinking about movies like

19:48

Apollo 13 or A Beautiful Mind

19:50

or 13 Lives, which is

19:52

your recent film about the famous

19:54

rescue of the Thai soccer team

19:57

from the cave in northern Thailand.

20:00

A lot of these movies

20:02

don't really have villains. They're

20:04

ultimately about people working

20:06

together to achieve something that seems

20:09

impossible. Maybe they're working against nature

20:11

or they're working against the

20:13

clock or they're working against the physics

20:16

of outer space, but there's not

20:18

a villain. I

20:20

do gravitate toward that sort of

20:22

complexity because I don't see things

20:25

in black and white terms. What

20:27

I do love are stories about people who

20:29

are tested as individuals or

20:32

as groups. I'm

20:34

a little bit less interested in the black

20:36

and white, here's the good guy,

20:39

here's the bad guy, let's watch him fight it

20:41

out. A little more

20:43

curious about how things

20:45

work, how do conflicts generate

20:47

into real drama and

20:50

how do decisions that we make

20:53

factor into those outcomes, how does it work? I

20:56

think there's a lot of drama in that and it's very

20:58

relatable and sometimes it can be hilarious, sometimes

21:00

it can be really suspenseful and

21:03

it can almost always be emotional. When

21:06

you look at things from a very human

21:08

perspective, they live in both the mind and

21:10

the heart simultaneously. I just

21:12

want to pick up on something you just said,

21:14

that these are dramas, but many

21:17

of your films, they're also characterized as

21:19

almost like feel good dramas. Well,

21:22

I remain an optimist and I think I am interested

21:24

in those kind of human stories,

21:26

which suggests that despite all the

21:28

difficulties and challenges, there are roads

21:31

to those kinds of moments where

21:33

we as human beings really do

21:35

feel great. It might not

21:37

last forever, but there are these moments and

21:39

I think those are worth really acknowledging. I'm

21:43

not just trying to make people

21:45

feel good, but I am trying

21:47

to recognize how a mostly positive

21:49

or bittersweet or fully thrilling

21:52

outcome can be achieved. Our lives are

21:54

built on these moments. We work real

21:56

hard to have that moment of

21:59

satisfaction. action that you

22:01

feel real gratitude toward. And

22:04

so I like building stories toward that when

22:06

it's impossible. It's not always there. Yeah.

22:09

But do you think that there's been

22:11

a shift in recent years in drama

22:14

films in particular? Like I'm thinking

22:17

about films like Oppenheimer, films

22:19

that did really well at the Oscars

22:21

this year. I feel like

22:23

there's been a little bit of a

22:26

shift towards a more pessimistic, a more

22:28

conflicted, a more kind of anguished style

22:31

of storytelling that

22:33

doesn't seem to have any of the

22:35

optimism that you've brought to some of these

22:37

stories. I'm wondering if you've noticed that and if

22:39

you have any thoughts about it. Well

22:42

in every instance, those are movies that I

22:44

really admired and I thought the tone was

22:46

exactly right, really made sense and was very

22:48

satisfying for me as a viewer. So I

22:51

don't feel there's any formula.

22:53

But look, I think as a population,

22:55

we're all a little bit destabilized and

22:58

unsettled right now. And so

23:00

I feel like movies may

23:02

live in that grayer area, even

23:05

successful shows like White Lotus

23:09

or Euphoria kind of recognize these

23:11

challenges that humans face and that

23:13

people don't always make the right

23:15

choice. There's a drift toward something

23:18

you might call a kind of a cautionary story.

23:21

But I think most of those writers and directors and

23:23

producers would tell you that they're still

23:25

recognizing opportunities

23:28

for good outcomes.

23:31

Maybe it's bittersweet, more good came from

23:33

this than bad or this was

23:35

pretty bleak, but there is this element

23:38

of good. Yeah. Do you

23:40

ever worry that sort of we're losing our

23:42

cultural optimism? I mean, the

23:44

optimism is one of the things that shines through, the

23:47

faith shines through in so much of your

23:49

work. And I personally really

23:51

worry that we're losing some of that.

23:53

Well, that's a really interesting question. Geopolitically

23:56

on our home front, there's

23:59

a lot of. stress and strain and

24:01

conflict is in the

24:03

air and it pushes the people who

24:06

are telling stories to recognize that and

24:08

audiences can relate to it

24:10

because they're feeling it. They're feeling it, you

24:12

know, almost all the media that they consume

24:16

is kind of tainted with that and

24:18

it's not that it shouldn't be. I mean,

24:20

we're going through a difficult time. I

24:22

think it's also a great time to

24:25

take a moment, recognize this

24:27

as a pattern and say,

24:29

let's not lose sight of the fact that people are doing

24:31

a lot of good work to try

24:34

to be constructive and let's keep the

24:36

equilibrium of kind of what

24:38

the human experience is and can be.

24:41

And I think it's up to storytellers to try to do

24:43

that. So obviously we've been

24:45

talking about a lot of your feature

24:47

films that are based on true stories,

24:49

but you've also been making a lot

24:51

of documentaries like Pavarotti about the legendary

24:53

opera singer and now most recently Jim

24:55

Henson idea man. How do

24:58

you decide whether a story works best

25:00

as a feature film or as a

25:02

documentary? Well

25:04

in the subjects that you're talking about, that

25:06

wasn't really a discussion. These

25:08

ideas were brought to me or

25:11

originally discussed as documentaries.

25:14

And I have just found in the

25:16

last decade that it's incredibly gratifying

25:18

for me to always have a documentary project

25:21

or two that I'm working on. Why is

25:23

that? I always have been

25:25

interested. As I said, I consider

25:27

journalism as a possibility. So this

25:29

sort of scratches that itch, but

25:31

I've also found early

25:34

on it's informing my work in

25:36

the scripted mediums in ways

25:39

that are, I think really constructive.

25:42

And from a storytelling standpoint, it's a

25:44

different timetable. It's something I can do

25:47

in and around my scripted

25:49

work and intellectually,

25:52

emotionally it's fulfilling.

25:55

I love collaborating with the people who are

25:57

totally dedicated to the doc world. They're

25:59

fascinating. group of people and

26:01

look I'm following the lead

26:04

of some directors who I just really admire

26:06

Spike Lee, Martin Scorsese, the

26:08

late Jonathan Demme. They showed me

26:11

that you can move back and forth between

26:13

these as Martin Scorsese says I don't think

26:15

of them as movies or documentaries. They're all

26:18

films. They're all films and

26:20

you're just you're using a different language with

26:23

one story and with a different set of

26:25

demands and I understand what he's saying because

26:27

as Jonathan Demme told me

26:29

when I was first contemplating taking on

26:32

my first documentary he said you're going to

26:34

use more of your muscles than you realize

26:36

in making a documentary. Just because you're not

26:38

staging scenes and rewriting the

26:41

script you know you're still

26:43

discovering the story and his

26:45

great advice was you need to go into these

26:47

situations believing you know what the

26:49

story is and be ready to be wrong and

26:52

get excited about that and

26:54

even on the stories like our

26:56

Jim Henson film or Beatles eight

26:58

days a week or Pavarotti where

27:00

you know you're looking back

27:03

on a subject you still

27:05

make discoveries thematically you still

27:08

learn about elements

27:10

of what their lives meant

27:13

to them and to others that

27:16

you didn't know about and it reframes the

27:19

narrative almost constantly and

27:22

changes your perspective on

27:24

some aspect of their life that you

27:26

were conveying one way and now

27:28

you can recognize it in this other way

27:30

and it's exciting. So obviously

27:32

so much of your work is about the importance

27:34

of these true stories and what we can

27:37

learn from them. When you look

27:39

back on your own story and your own

27:41

incredible career what do you hope

27:43

people take away from your body of work?

27:47

What do you hope your legacy will be? Oh

27:49

my. I know that's a big one.

27:52

It's a big question. I'm

27:54

starting to sweat here a

27:56

little bit. You know look

27:58

I have as a director tried to

28:01

always be in service of the story

28:04

and what it was that I

28:06

recognized, and maybe my key collaborators

28:08

recognized about the potential values

28:11

of those stories, whether

28:13

it's comedy or drama or fantasy or

28:16

fiction. And use

28:18

the tools and the creative energies of

28:20

the people around me and everything that

28:22

I could muster to just

28:25

share it with audiences, you know? And

28:27

not so much put an individual stamp on

28:29

it. I kind of hope there

28:31

is no stamp. Other than quality

28:34

and a really unrelenting effort to try to

28:36

get it right. Don't always succeed, but the

28:38

effort is always there, I promise you. Because

28:41

I really, I love and respect

28:43

the medium and I love and respect the audiences who

28:45

are going to take the time to watch.

28:48

I want them to feel more

28:51

than anything that they didn't waste

28:53

their time, that they invested their time wisely in

28:56

whatever show or movie

28:58

it is that I'm directly

29:00

involved in. Yeah. So

29:03

you had four kids with your

29:05

wife of nearly 50 years, Cheryl

29:07

Howard. How did you do this with four

29:09

kids? How did you make this

29:12

career work with four kids? And do you

29:14

have any advice? Well,

29:16

I prioritized it. You prioritized your

29:18

career or having four kids? Both.

29:20

Yeah. Alan Alda gave me

29:23

great advice. And I had acted on a

29:25

MASH episode. So I knew Alan Alda and

29:28

looked up to him. He was also just a great director. He

29:31

would fly home, you know, from the

29:33

MASH set east every weekend to

29:35

be with his family because he didn't want

29:37

to relocate them to LA. So I had

29:39

witnessed this dedication. And I

29:42

remember being at Henry Winkler's birthday

29:44

party right after my

29:46

daughter Bryce was born. And I was there

29:49

holding the baby and I was talking to him. I said,

29:51

how do you make room for your family? You

29:53

know, I'm just launching a

29:56

production company. I'm just getting my

29:59

directing underway. And yet now

30:01

I have my daughter Bryce, you

30:03

know any advice and

30:06

he said well You know

30:08

what it takes to develop a screenplay? Into

30:11

a movie he said well

30:14

She's at least as important as any screenplay When

30:18

you're developing a screenplay, it's kind of an everyday

30:20

thing isn't it's always on your mind. You're always

30:22

following up you just pay attention Just

30:25

pay attention now I have to say that my

30:27

wife Cheryl is a hero in all of this

30:30

in as much as she was very

30:32

willing and committed to taking the family

30:34

on the road and She

30:37

was incredibly supportive of what I was doing

30:40

She recognized that it was a passion, but

30:42

she also really wanted to have

30:44

a close-knit family and she

30:46

went through You know incredible

30:48

amount of discomfort and hard

30:50

work to make that possible

30:53

so I did everything that I could

30:55

do while maintaining the career and She

30:59

made it possible to find that equilibrium.

31:01

Hmm. Yeah Well

31:03

Ron Howard it's been so great talking to

31:06

you about your new documentary Jim

31:08

Henson idea man and your legacy as

31:10

one of the greatest directors of our

31:12

time But now I want

31:15

to ask you some questions about your everyday life

31:17

in a segment. We like to call the last

31:19

time. Okay Oh, here we go Ready

31:24

buckle up. Okay, so when's the last time

31:26

you watched one of your own movies? I Watched

31:29

the Grinch this last Christmas with my grandkids and it

31:32

was great. Oh, really? Yeah, what do they think about

31:34

it? They got a kick out of it. He was

31:36

a Grinch was a little scary at first for some

31:38

of the little ones but they love Cindy

31:40

Lou who and By

31:42

the end everybody was laughing and happy. That's

31:44

so great When's the

31:47

last time you watched the Muppets?

31:50

Well, obviously for the documentary I

31:52

was reintroduced to the Muppets and

31:55

they are hilarious and one of my hopes for

31:58

the idea man is that

32:00

people will not only understand

32:03

what a brilliant guy Jim was and

32:05

how much he contributed to our

32:07

popular culture, but how hilarious the Muppets are.

32:09

So I hadn't seen them in decades outside

32:11

of a clip that I would bump into

32:13

once in a while about a Muppet movie

32:15

or something. So to just

32:18

realize how fresh and funny

32:20

those Muppets episodes were was a

32:22

joy. When is the

32:24

last time you gave a

32:26

young filmmaker advice? Probably

32:30

recently and fairly often. I don't really remember

32:32

the very last time, but well,

32:34

actually I do. I went and

32:36

spoke to a fifth grade class.

32:39

Wow. I happened to know the school. I

32:41

happened to know the administrators and they asked

32:43

me to come and talk about filmmaking and

32:45

preparation. And they were a smart

32:48

bunch of kids in fact. It was about 10 days ago. And

32:50

what was the kind of top line of what you told them? The

32:54

top line was that you always

32:56

have to understand the story that

32:58

you're telling. And that drives

33:00

all of your preparation because what do you

33:02

want the story to convey? Do you want

33:05

it to convey comedy? Do you want it

33:07

to convey serious ideas and thinking? Is it

33:09

informational? Is it a documentary? And

33:11

once you really, really understand what

33:14

it's about, what the themes are, what your

33:16

goals are for the audience, then

33:18

you can begin to understand how to prepare

33:21

so that you're organized and

33:23

you're on target. And

33:26

finally, when's the last time you read

33:28

a true story that you thought would make

33:30

a great movie? Wow. Well,

33:33

this movie that I just finished shooting,

33:36

which is called Eden, which

33:38

is about a true crime

33:40

situation was the last thing

33:42

that I've read about. I went

33:44

back and reread everything that I could

33:46

find that had been written about this

33:49

sort of wild,

33:51

emotional, fascinating

33:54

series of crimes that were committed on the Galapagos

33:56

in the 1930s. Oh

33:58

my gosh. Courtney tells me

34:00

more about that. We. Have a

34:03

great cast on an arm as

34:05

you law, Vanessa Kirby's Sydney Sweeney

34:07

and Daniel Brule or the leads

34:09

and we just finished reading about

34:11

eight weeks ago, some in post

34:13

production and now I'm just. Their

34:15

performances are extraordinary. but it all

34:17

started with first being in the

34:19

Galapagos and discovering the story. Been.

34:22

Reading about and. Great

34:25

will find. I really appreciate making time to

34:27

speak with as. I've enjoyed our chats been

34:29

fun, With

34:37

latest film jim. Henson idea. Man

34:40

comes out May thirty first. Thank

34:43

you so much for listening to Person

34:45

of The. If you like what you

34:47

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