0:02

There's. Still, a lot of games that

0:04

are needed to look at the growth.

0:07

In. The Twenty Three Twenty Four school year

0:09

progress is being made but we still are

0:11

not to pre pandemic levels are we still

0:13

have to keep the same urgency we had

0:15

while we were trying to reopen our schools

0:18

to make sure kids catch up. American

0:23

Education has been radically transformed over

0:25

the last few years by covered

0:28

school closures, the Ai revolution, and

0:30

ground breaking legal rulings on affirmative

0:32

action and student debt. So.

0:35

As students around the country head into

0:37

the final stretch of the school year,

0:39

there's nobody better to help us understand

0:42

this changing landscape. And Us Secretary of

0:44

Education Macau Cardona. As.

0:47

Head of the Department of Education and

0:49

the Biden Administration, Cardona has been at

0:51

the forefront of implementing the President's education

0:54

policy. When Biden came into office, more

0:56

than half of schools were still closed

0:58

because of cove it. Secretary Cardona oversaw

1:01

the reopening of America Schools and distributed

1:03

billions of dollars in federal funding for

1:05

struggling students. He's also in charge of

1:08

the administration's efforts to transform the broken

1:10

student loan system. As of mid April,

1:12

the Biden Administration has authorized a hundred

1:15

and fifty three billion dollars of student.

1:17

Loan Forgiveness affecting nearly four point

1:19

three million borrowers around the country.

1:22

In this conversation, Secretary Cardona describes

1:24

what he loved best about being

1:26

an elementary school principal, the challenges

1:29

facing students and teachers in the

1:31

aftermath of the pandemic, and how

1:34

the Biden administration is tackling college

1:36

affordability. I'm Charlotte Alter senior correspondent

1:38

for Time, and this is person

1:41

of the week. So.

1:50

Your parents are originally from Puerto

1:52

Rico and like so many children

1:54

growing up by link wall in

1:57

the United States. your first language

1:59

was Spanish. Then I read somewhere

2:01

that you didn't actually learn English until

2:03

you entered grade school. What was that

2:05

Like for you to shop at school?

2:08

Speaking a different language than the other

2:10

students. Well. You. Know One

2:13

of the things they talk about

2:15

now is how multilingualism is a

2:17

superpower and. Not. Only as an

2:19

educator, but myself growing up having to

2:21

languages helped me tremendously in my career.

2:24

When I was little, I did learn

2:26

Spanish first. By the time I got

2:28

to kindergarten, I did know English, but

2:30

I'd probably dominated Spanish better food, so

2:32

he was still an experience to be

2:34

kindergarten and not really understand other words

2:36

the vocabulary. Many people who are multilingual

2:38

would tell you they often think in

2:40

one language and be have to translate

2:42

in their head in another. So I

2:44

think I was going through that process

2:46

which made it a little bit more

2:48

challenging. So much so that may be an

2:50

hour and a half. two hours into my

2:52

first day of kindergarten ever. I was in

2:54

the nurse's office in my mom had a

2:56

pick me up. Oh really? yeah, yeah. why?

2:58

I just it was overwhelming and you know,

3:01

the big kids communications an Englishman only and

3:03

it was one of those things where I

3:05

didn't think I could do it and my

3:07

mom assured me that I I'd be fine

3:09

and I haven't stopped going to school since.

3:11

Wow, so did their language challenges

3:13

affect your ability to make friends

3:16

all in those first few years.

3:18

I don't know that it affected

3:20

me so silly. From the perspective

3:23

of developing what I now know

3:25

is called academic language to which

3:27

is different than two basic interpersonal

3:29

communication so that's you know, where's

3:32

the bathroom or my name is

3:34

Sources Communication Skills Academic language. That's

3:36

the language that you're going to

3:38

see when you're reading informational tens

3:41

heavy and vocabulary heavy ends, idioms

3:43

and other language aspects that are

3:45

learned later as you're learning a

3:47

second language. New. And so

3:49

you know one see that the hang of it.

3:52

You were asked to the races at

3:54

in school. was there a

3:56

particular moment that you realized you wanted to be an

3:58

educator did he have a particular teacher who

4:00

inspired you? You know,

4:02

I'll be honest with you, in second grade,

4:04

I was fascinated with art. I

4:06

loved drawing, I loved painting, and I had

4:09

a teacher, Mr. O'Neill, who was

4:11

my art teacher, and he made learning so much fun.

4:13

And I always said, I want to be like Mr.

4:15

O'Neill when I get older. So

4:17

that seed was planted then, but I went to

4:20

a technical high school. I was

4:22

learning how to work on cars and

4:24

automotive technology. And then I was

4:27

using my artwork still in high school

4:29

as a means of communication around social

4:31

justice and equity and so on and

4:33

so forth. And my

4:35

art teacher in high school, Ms. Ransom said, you know,

4:37

you should consider a career in teaching. It seems like

4:40

you're trying to say something through the arts. So

4:42

that really cemented it for me to art teachers at the

4:44

bookends of my K-12 experience. Huh,

4:47

wow, that's so interesting. I love to hear

4:49

that art teachers were the ones who kind

4:52

of set you on this path. They're amazing. So

4:55

I want to fast forward. Obviously you

4:58

studied to be an educator. And then in 1998, you began

5:00

your career in education as

5:04

a fourth grade elementary school teacher

5:06

in Meriden, Connecticut. What

5:08

is so special about fourth

5:10

grade? What do you remember about

5:12

teaching students of this particular age

5:14

that's really stuck with you? It

5:17

really is special. You know, they're nine years

5:19

old, independent enough where they can go

5:22

to the restroom by themselves. You don't have to

5:24

bring the whole class and wait for them outside.

5:27

They're independent enough there, but they still want to please

5:29

you. They still want to

5:31

impress the teacher. You know, they're still hanging

5:33

on every word you say, yet

5:35

they're old enough to understand jokes and

5:38

be silly and be given responsibilities.

5:41

It's a special year, fourth grade, but I

5:43

know for me, having entered

5:45

the profession in fourth grade, there's a

5:47

special spot in my heart for that year. Are

5:49

there students that you still keep in touch with? Absolutely.

5:51

These are people who impacted my life as

5:53

much as I did theirs. So

5:56

then a little while later in 2003, you

5:59

became the... youngest principal in Connecticut at the

6:01

age of 28. What

6:04

did you learn was the secret to being a

6:06

great principal? It's funny because I was

6:08

very young, and I did that job

6:10

for 10 years. And I have to

6:12

say, looking back on my whole career

6:14

so far, that is

6:16

probably one of the best jobs,

6:18

most grueling, but one of

6:20

the best jobs in education. Why? You're

6:22

close enough to the students where you could see

6:25

the impact you're making on them day to day.

6:27

You connect with their families. You have your own

6:29

little community. You create a culture, and it's just

6:31

such a positive experience. And

6:34

early on, you go in thinking, this is how

6:36

you should do things, or this is how the

6:38

research says you should do things. What

6:40

I realized soon is the

6:43

people in front of you are your greatest

6:45

resource. So when I started to empower teachers

6:47

to help be a part of the decision

6:49

making, engage students and families differently, we

6:51

created such a positive culture and

6:53

such a joyous place to be,

6:56

not only for students, but for

6:58

families, for educators. And it

7:00

was really such a highlight for me

7:02

to grow and realize that there's

7:05

power in a group and that

7:07

the more I engage teachers,

7:10

the more their fingerprints are on our improvement

7:12

plans, the more likely it's gonna stick and

7:14

it's gonna work. That's interesting.

7:17

So in 2019,

7:19

you were appointed as the first

7:21

ever Latino State Commissioner

7:23

of Education in Connecticut. And

7:26

you got this job right before the pandemic,

7:29

and then you were

7:31

tasked with safely reopening schools.

7:34

So let's talk about COVID,

7:36

because it's really hard

7:38

to talk about modern education right now

7:40

without talking about the impact

7:43

of COVID. You saw this firsthand

7:45

in Connecticut as commissioner.

7:47

What is your read on

7:49

the amount of learning loss

7:52

that American students experience during

7:54

this time? Yes, prior

7:56

to the pandemic, I was really excited

7:58

to serve as commissioner. And

8:00

we were gonna tackle the achievement disparities that

8:02

existed in Connecticut. Some of

8:05

the largest gaps in achievement data in

8:07

our country. And we

8:09

were really moving that forward and

8:11

the pandemic exacerbated gaps. So

8:13

I guess, Charlotte, the best way to

8:15

describe it is an experience that I had about four

8:17

or five weeks into the pandemic. So

8:20

our schools were closed and we were working on

8:22

getting laptops in the hands of every kid. I

8:25

called the superintendent of a very wealthy

8:27

district to check in, how's

8:29

it going? How are your students? He said, you

8:33

know what, given the situation we're doing

8:35

relatively well, most of my kids have a

8:37

parent that's home all day that can help

8:39

them. Every one of my kids

8:41

has a laptop. We have our curriculum online and they

8:43

have the resources that they need to get the support

8:45

that they need. I called

8:47

another district, a very low performing district

8:49

that struggled and most of the students

8:51

are free to reduce lunch. And I asked

8:53

her, how's it going for you? And she said, we're

8:56

still trying to find our kids. Four

8:58

weeks into the pandemic. So that

9:00

shows the impact. All students

9:03

were impacted. Not all students were

9:05

impacted the same. So

9:07

yes, academically learning loss happened.

9:10

We saw students regress significantly,

9:13

but we're still today seeing the tales

9:15

of the impact where chronic absenteeism is

9:17

still very high across the country. It

9:20

has not recovered from pre-pandemic levels in

9:22

many of our schools that are high

9:24

need schools. Yeah, so

9:26

I'm glad you mentioned absenteeism

9:28

because I feel like that's

9:30

one of those things where

9:32

clearly absenteeism skyrocketed during the

9:34

pandemic. And then it seems

9:37

like there's been a little bit of a

9:39

push to not

9:41

penalize absenteeism

9:43

because it could be seen as

9:46

unfair. And you were state

9:49

commissioner until 2021 when

9:51

president Biden called on you to serve

9:53

as the US secretary of education. So

9:56

I'm kind of curious, you know, what do

9:59

you think? I think should be

10:01

the solution to this problem

10:03

of chronic absenteeism that would

10:05

be, on the one

10:08

hand, getting students to show up to class,

10:10

but on the other hand, not penalizing students

10:12

who clearly are struggling

10:14

to complete their education and have a lot going

10:16

on, and there are reasons that they can't

10:18

come to class. You know,

10:21

it's important to remember that absenteeism is

10:24

a symptom of deeper issues.

10:27

And the issues could be anything from

10:29

children that have to translate for their

10:32

parents at a doctor's appointment or at

10:34

an appointment for a younger sibling, children

10:37

having housing insecurity and don't have a way

10:39

to get to where they're supposed to go.

10:42

We also have a significant mental

10:44

health crisis in our country

10:46

that affect our youth. So

10:49

that doesn't mean that the absences won't

10:51

hurt those students. We have

10:53

to thread the needle to make sure that we're

10:55

holding folks accountable for what they're

10:58

responsible for while also

11:00

addressing the underlying issues. It's all

11:02

critical. What we're trying to

11:04

do is really support

11:07

schools, universities

11:10

to address those underlying issues

11:12

like housing insecurity, mental health

11:15

needs through the president's budget.

11:18

So there's things called full service community

11:20

schools. I think three, four years ago, it

11:22

was like $50 million. We're pushing for $200

11:24

million to give whatever it is the

11:28

school needs, the community needs so that those students

11:30

can get back into the classroom because it costs

11:32

more in the end when you're trying to intervene

11:35

or when you have students dropping out. So

11:37

for us, it's what are the root

11:39

causes of absenteeism? How do we

11:42

support schools and districts as they

11:44

work on that? Some schools

11:46

didn't have nurses before the pandemic. Can

11:49

you imagine that? Some schools didn't have

11:51

a counselor, school social worker. So we've seen

11:53

an increase of, I think it was like

11:55

29% in school counselors. We've

11:57

seen close to 30% increase in school nurses.

12:00

due to some of the strategic funding decisions we've

12:02

made to help address chronic absenteeism,

12:04

but we have to keep our eyes on

12:06

it. And it does require now

12:09

that schools work with community agencies,

12:11

schools cannot do it alone. It's really a

12:13

community effort to make sure that the kids

12:15

are in school all the time. So

12:17

I want to talk more broadly about some

12:20

of the changes that COVID has

12:23

created in our education system. Everything

12:25

from the rise of remote learning

12:28

to tech in schools. I'm

12:31

curious, which of these changes do

12:34

you think are positive changes

12:36

that should endure

12:38

in our system? And

12:40

which of these changes do you think were sort

12:43

of responses to the pandemic that

12:45

maybe should be eliminated

12:47

or rolled back now that we're

12:50

in a little bit of a post pandemic moment? So

12:53

look, there is no substitute for

12:55

in-person learning with a

12:57

teacher working with students. Technology

13:00

can help enhance learning. It

13:03

can facilitate good practice. It doesn't

13:05

replace the school experience.

13:07

It doesn't replace the community experience.

13:10

However, the laptop is the new

13:12

pencil. And we do

13:14

a disservice to our students when

13:17

we don't evolve at the

13:19

pace that we need to evolve to keep

13:21

up with the opportunities that our students have.

13:24

AI, for example, it's here.

13:28

It's here. So we either

13:30

help our students with digital citizenry

13:32

and give them guardrails to

13:35

understand how it can help but how it can

13:37

hurt, how you can get

13:39

a lot of information but you could

13:41

also get biases reinforced and make them

13:43

better consumers of AI or

13:45

whatever tools are out there. Because

13:47

I think if we deny the fact that this

13:50

is coming, they're gonna do it without us. And

13:52

then those guardrails are not there. But everything

13:55

in moderation. It shouldn't replace

13:57

the interaction in schools, the face-to-face

13:59

dialogue. I think we have to be

14:01

careful not to let it replace the things that we

14:03

know schools are intended for as well What do

14:05

you think those guardrails should be? Hmm with

14:08

AI, you know, we've done some work working

14:10

with families parents educators just

14:13

ensuring that students see the potential in

14:17

Facilitating learning in Being

14:20

creative thinkers there are going

14:22

to be career opportunities for our children who are

14:24

in fourth grade right now That

14:27

didn't exist when I was teaching I'd

14:30

be limiting my students if I didn't give them

14:32

some Exposure and give

14:35

them an opportunity to explore it

14:37

in a safe classroom environment some

14:39

of the guardrails should be preventing

14:41

students from using

14:43

information that is not necessarily verified

14:45

or misinformation, you know in a

14:47

school reform or Relying

14:50

on technology to do the work for you

14:52

do the thing for you versus simplifying

14:55

or making better your

14:57

idea and the way you communicate

14:59

it So I think it's

15:01

the thin line and we're still developing an understanding

15:03

of how best to do that in education By

15:06

no means is there a playbook on how to

15:08

do it perfectly But we at the department have

15:10

resources and we're working with educators from across the

15:12

country that are figuring this out and doing it

15:14

well More

15:18

with Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona

15:20

when we come back You

15:45

So one of the things that changed during

15:47

the pandemic that has recently Changed

15:50

again is testing specifically SAT

15:52

and ACT testing because during

15:54

the pandemic Many

15:56

many universities including some of the

15:58

most elite American universities universities announced

16:00

they would stop requiring standardized

16:03

tests. And just recently, many

16:05

of those extremely

16:07

prestigious colleges announced that they're bringing

16:09

back the standardized tests. What

16:12

do you make of this? Do you think

16:15

we need more testing or less testing

16:17

as the education system recovers from the

16:19

pandemic? You know, I think it

16:21

was Alfie Cohn that said to be overly enamored

16:23

by data is to become

16:25

vulnerable to its misuse. So

16:29

as a lifelong educator, lifelong

16:32

student, really, I understand

16:34

the value of high standards and assessments

16:36

that assess students'

16:38

ability toward those standards. As

16:41

someone that has been adamant about

16:43

addressing achievement disparities, having

16:45

high standards and assessing toward those standards,

16:47

to me, is non-negotiable.

16:50

But how you assess, to

16:52

me, is where we need to really pay attention,

16:55

because what's happening is we've created

16:57

a culture in our country, in some pockets, not

16:59

everywhere, where we're teaching

17:01

to attest. We're teaching

17:03

and limiting scope

17:06

so that students do well on an

17:08

assessment that's very narrow in its focus.

17:11

And we're removing the

17:13

experiential learning. We're overlooking

17:16

the opportunities that students have

17:18

to develop social skills and

17:20

communicative language because we're doing

17:22

more of the rote memorization,

17:26

skill drill exercises that

17:28

prepare students for an assessment but not

17:30

for life. I saw

17:32

that there was a period of time where

17:34

all schools didn't require

17:37

an SAT test. I think

17:39

it was appropriate during the period of

17:41

the pandemic where access to high-quality education

17:43

was not equitable. That doesn't

17:45

mean that those students don't need support and

17:47

that those data couldn't show that. But

17:49

there are other measures of assessing that. I

17:52

think what it did is prevent further

17:54

exclusion of students who are tremendously

17:57

capable of accessing higher

17:59

education. Now, as they roll it

18:01

back in, I think the

18:03

assessments have to evolve to be a

18:05

little bit more authentic in how they

18:07

measure student success and potential. And

18:10

I can tell you from experience too, having been a

18:12

district leader, there are families that

18:14

have resources to get a college prep tutor

18:16

or an SAT tutor and they prepare their

18:18

children and there are many students who have

18:20

tremendous potential that don't have that access that

18:22

are working after school to help pay the

18:24

rent that have the ability to go on

18:26

and change the world or students who are

18:28

the first in their family to go to

18:30

college and maybe didn't even see themselves

18:32

going to college until somebody saw it in them

18:34

and maybe those students could then become the secretary

18:37

of education like me, right? There's a lot of

18:39

potential in this country, so we have to be

18:41

careful not to exclude people

18:43

based on one number. So

18:45

speaking of that, the Supreme Court

18:47

also ended affirmative action last year

18:49

prohibiting schools from considering race in

18:51

college admissions. Are you

18:53

worried about that decision compounding

18:55

with the return of the

18:57

testing to make it more

18:59

difficult for schools to sort

19:02

of increase equity and build

19:04

a diverse student body? I

19:06

am concerned about the decision because

19:10

when California did it, they

19:13

saw less black and brown students going

19:15

to college. I don't

19:17

want that to happen across the country. There

19:19

are those that will argue, well, you should be able to

19:22

be successful and test in. I

19:24

don't disagree with that if all things

19:27

were equal. The reality is we have

19:29

tremendous funding caps in our schools.

19:32

I go back to my Connecticut example

19:34

of when I called those two superintendents. The

19:37

students in District A had

19:40

many more resources at their fingertips than

19:43

the students in the second district. It

19:46

doesn't mean that the students in the second

19:48

district can't be successful, if anything. Sometimes

19:51

they have more grit and

19:53

perseverance based on the fact that

19:55

they have had to grind harder

19:57

or have to achieve with less

19:59

school. supports in the district available.

20:02

So again, we as leaders in

20:04

education have an opportunity to really

20:07

redefine access for

20:09

all. We're doing our part in the

20:12

administration by increasing Pell dollars, by holding

20:14

colleges accountable for a good return on

20:16

investment for students that go to higher

20:18

education, for making sure the completion rates

20:21

are where they need to be. But

20:23

we're also providing supports for college completion

20:25

grants, dollars to help students who are

20:28

financially struggling I think we

20:30

have an opportunity as education leaders to

20:32

ensure that striking down the affirmative action

20:35

decision doesn't result in less

20:37

diverse schools, especially at a time where

20:39

our country is becoming more and more

20:42

diverse. So getting into

20:44

college is one thing, obviously paying for

20:46

it is another. And we are in

20:48

the midst of an immense higher

20:51

education affordability crisis that the Biden

20:53

administration has been trying to tackle.

20:56

Biden and his original sort of student

20:58

loan forgiveness was struck

21:00

down by the Supreme court. So the administration has

21:02

pursued instead a little bit more of a piecemeal

21:04

approach. And in April, the Biden

21:06

administration announced the approval of an additional 7.4

21:08

billion in student

21:10

debt relief that affects 277,000 borrowers. My

21:15

question for you is forgiving student loans

21:17

is one thing and the administration has

21:19

made major progress on this, but making

21:22

sure that Biden gets credit for it

21:24

is another. And I think because the

21:26

blanket student loan forgiveness was struck down

21:28

in court, there are lots of people

21:31

who believe that he's not

21:33

doing this or that he's not forgiving student loans.

21:35

So how do you make

21:38

sure that Americans know that there

21:40

are student loans being forgiven but

21:43

just not in the sort of blanket

21:46

way that the Biden administration had

21:48

originally hoped? Right. One

21:51

in 10 student loan borrowers

21:54

in this country, one in

21:56

10 of them have had their debt relieved. What

21:59

is the total? amount of student-owned forgiveness?

22:02

We're close to 160 billion dollars. Wow. Four

22:06

million people in this country have had debt relief

22:08

in the last three years. We're

22:10

not even done with the first term. Look,

22:13

not only was it something that the president

22:15

campaigned on, more importantly it was something that

22:17

he believed in because higher

22:20

education has been out of reach

22:22

for too many Americans. And

22:24

while debt relief gets a lot of the

22:26

attention, and rightfully so, it's

22:29

part of a sweet of things that

22:31

we're doing to fix a broken higher

22:33

education system. We're improving federal

22:35

aid for students. FAFSA hasn't

22:38

been touched in 40 years. We're increasing

22:40

aid in the Pell Grant every year

22:42

for students. We're making the process simpler

22:45

before the process was so cumbersome that

22:47

students wouldn't even fill it out. We're

22:50

holding colleges accountable. We're introducing

22:52

gainful employment rules, which mean

22:55

that you have to show the return on investment that

22:57

students are getting when they're paying for this

22:59

education. We're going after, you

23:01

know, these for-profit institutions preying on first-generation

23:03

college kids and putting them in debt.

23:06

And they don't even have the income

23:08

after because those programs are not worth, you

23:11

know, the paper the diploma's written on. So

23:13

we're going after those schools and we're providing

23:15

discharge and giving those students another

23:17

chance to get back on their feet. So we're

23:19

fixing a broken system. Debt relief is part of

23:21

it. But there's too much potential

23:23

in this country, Charlotte, for only

23:25

the wealthy to have access to higher education. So

23:28

we have to do better. If we're

23:30

going to compete with other countries, we're going to lead

23:32

the world the way I expect our education system to.

23:34

Higher education has to be accessible to more. Can

23:37

you just tell us a little bit

23:39

about the next steps in terms of

23:41

increasing college affordability and forgiving more debt?

23:43

Yes. So I mentioned

23:46

before we're making the process to apply

23:48

for federal aid simpler. We're going to

23:50

increase The aid package so students

23:52

who are eligible due to financial need.

23:54

We're going to continue with our debt

23:56

relief work. We're simplifying the process to

23:58

get to higher education. Shouldn't it gradually in?

24:01

We're also trying to connect high schools to

24:03

give students college credits. Did you have a

24:05

hard working junior senior in high school and

24:07

they want to progress? Let him to college

24:09

credits in high school so they don't have

24:11

to pay for it. You could save money,

24:13

they are. You could start on your college

24:15

degree and you could also go to a

24:17

career path way. Because we know the President

24:19

has invested a lot. In. Tips

24:21

and science and and infrastructure. So they're going

24:24

to be a lot of high skill, high

24:26

paying careers were you don't need a four

24:28

year degree were opening pathways for the trades

24:30

and for those jobs as well. That's another

24:32

thing that we're doing. See.

24:36

On Sectors are tied down. It's

24:38

been such an honor speaking with

24:40

you about your extensive career in

24:42

education and the work you're doing

24:45

now as a Secretary of Education

24:47

under the by the administration and

24:49

what you see for the future

24:51

as education. But now I want

24:53

to ask you some questions about

24:55

your everyday life in a segment

24:57

we call the last time. So

24:59

when's the last time a student

25:01

did something that really cracked. You

25:03

Arts. Sciences. Wow. Couple

25:05

weeks ago I was doing a little interview

25:07

with little four year old and a day

25:09

was just you give a microphone to a

25:11

four year old. They try to. Do

25:14

you remember what they asked you? So.

25:17

I was asking the questions in the young boy

25:19

he was like four years old talk to me

25:21

about his favorite song and it was a song

25:23

from the eighties and I'm like this kid is

25:25

for his of us had come us how would

25:28

you know about the eighties he goes they were

25:30

good and like what was good about the eighties

25:32

he said that's when my dad was born on

25:34

I just as a I had and the interview

25:36

there because you can get any during the. Summer

25:39

again wins Last time you said

25:41

the pledge of allegiance. Ah

25:43

jeez! I went to a

25:45

sports event at a high

25:48

school within the last. Two.

25:50

To three weeks and to the pledge of

25:52

Allegiance. When's the last time you played the bongo?

25:54

Drums. Hoof. Man.

25:59

the last time played it was,

26:01

I think it was

26:03

when I played with, I'm not trying to name drop

26:05

here, but it was with Herbie Hancock. When

26:08

he was performing for educators

26:11

that came from different countries and

26:13

he performed with the Institute of

26:15

Jazz and he asked me to

26:17

play. I was trying not to because you know you

26:19

don't want to ruin it. That's Herbie Hancock, but

26:21

that was it and it was pretty memorable. When's

26:24

the last time you visited Hanover Elementary

26:26

School, which is where you were

26:28

the principal for 10 years? My

26:30

second home, jeez Hanover, I went

26:32

there about two

26:34

and a half months ago to do

26:36

something related to the role of secretary

26:38

and I needed a beautiful backdrop. So

26:41

I did a video there and I

26:44

used Hanover Elementary School as the backdrop.

26:46

And finally, when is the last time you

26:48

visited Puerto Rico where your parents are from?

26:51

Yes, the last time I

26:53

visited was last summer and

26:55

I'm long overdue. Wonderful

26:58

Secretary Cardona, I really appreciate you making

27:00

time to speak with me. Good talking to you,

27:02

thank you. If

27:07

you liked my conversation with Secretary Cardona

27:09

about the future of education in the

27:11

United States, don't forget the Teacher Appreciation

27:13

Week starts May 6th. Thank

27:16

you so much for listening to Person of

27:18

the Week. If you like what you heard,

27:20

don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your

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podcasts. And we'd love to

27:24

hear from you, so send your tips or thoughts

27:27

on our show to Person of the Week at

27:29

time.com. I'm Charlotte

27:31

Alter, see you next week. Person

27:43

of the Week is hosted by Charlotte

27:45

Alter. It's produced by Nina Bizvano and

27:48

Alison Bailey. Her senior producer is Ursula

27:50

Summer. Our story editor is Katie Fieder.

27:52

This episode was mixed by Joe Plourde.

27:54

Her theme music was composed by Billy

27:57

Levine. Joseph Frischmist is

27:59

our fact-tracker. Person of the Week

28:01

is a co-production of Time Studios and Sugar23. At

28:05

Time, our executive producers are Dave

28:07

O'Connor, Michael Erlinger, and Sam Jacobs.

28:09

At Sugar23, our executive producers are

28:11

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28:14

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