0:01

I mean, this is going to end horribly. Welcome

0:07

back to Petty Crimes, the only true crime

0:09

comedy podcast that exclusively investigates

0:12

non-crimes. Now,

0:15

Kira, do you mind today if we skip the

0:17

pleasantries?

0:18

My dream day.

0:21

Yeah, I was going to say, music to your ear, because

0:23

we are joined by a very special guest

0:26

today in studio. She has gone

0:28

deeper and darker into pettiness than most of

0:30

us will ever do.

0:32

Journalist, podcaster, documentarian,

0:35

and New Zealander that you might know

0:37

from Flightless Bird is recurring segment on

0:39

Dax Shepard's podcast, Armchair

0:41

Expert,

0:42

or from the critically acclaimed documentary

0:45

Tickled, which she produced, directed,

0:47

and starred in, no big deal.

0:49

Currently starring in Mr. Oregon, please

0:52

welcome to the Petty Crimes Court, David

0:54

Farrier. It's nice to be here. Yeah.

0:58

I love pettiness, so I'm very happy about this. This

1:00

is the perfect place to do it. I was telling David, Kira,

1:02

before we started, this is going to be a walk in

1:04

the park compared to what he does.

1:06

I'll say. How

1:09

are you doing over there in New York, Kira? I'm

1:11

good. I'm recovering

1:14

and gearing up, that in

1:17

between weeks of SNL feeling. I'm

1:20

good. I'm good. David,

1:23

I'm so stoked you're here. I'm

1:25

good. I'm so excited to be here. I

1:28

was just saying before, I'm dog

1:30

sitting at the moment, incredibly

1:32

stressful. I'm not a dog person. This dog

1:34

is deeply irritating. And it's a puppy,

1:37

right? It's a puppy. So that's another

1:39

level. I mean, that's why it doesn't know any better. A puppy

1:41

is going to be a lot, right? But I'm just in the middle

1:43

of it all. So this is like a beautiful

1:45

relief to be away from this

1:48

tiny yapping creature. We're so

1:50

happy to be that for you. Why

1:52

don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself? You're

1:54

from New Zealand. I am. You

1:56

said you got trapped here in LA. I did. Yeah, just

1:59

tell us a little bit.

1:59

about who you are and what it is that

2:02

you do, because it's kind of relevant to what we do,

2:04

except your country. It is. That's why I like you guys,

2:06

because I do like crimes that

2:08

aren't crime crimes. I make

2:10

things that generally deal with people doing bad things,

2:12

but never murder. Yeah. I'm

2:15

a New Zealander. I sort of grew up in

2:17

a newsroom in New Zealand and did

2:19

light entertainment kind of stories. So if Justin

2:22

Bee became from New Zealand, I'd be the one that would

2:24

interview him at the airport. And you did. And

2:27

I did. I did. Yeah. He

2:29

sat next to me. It was when he was tiny, Justin,

2:31

when he was like 14 or something. He was just this

2:33

tiny little like doll creature. Yeah. Very

2:36

funny. So I did that for

2:38

about 10 years. And then I was in the newsroom

2:40

one day, and I found out about this

2:42

competitive endurance tickling competition.

2:45

And this weird, that sort of story got me out

2:47

of the newsroom. And that was the first sort of feature

2:49

documentary I made. And that got into Sundance.

2:52

And so I left the newsroom,

2:54

and I just sort of concentrated on documentary. Cool.

2:57

And then a couple of years ago, I came

2:59

here to work on some stuff in Los

3:01

Angeles. And it was

3:04

the pandemic was kind of,

3:05

I think the mask thing

3:07

had just come off. So people were unmasked.

3:10

But New Zealand didn't have COVID. And as I

3:12

was in America, New Zealand

3:15

shut the border to keep COVID out. And

3:17

so I went to go back to New Zealand, and I couldn't

3:19

get in. They actually literally wouldn't let me in. And

3:22

so I got stuck here. And there

3:24

was like a lottery system to get back

3:26

into New Zealand. And I kept losing continuously.

3:29

And at some point, I was just like, this is too hard.

3:32

It's just easier to stay here. And

3:34

so I got a social security number

3:37

and a bank account and all this stuff

3:39

that you need and a visa,

3:42

which is helpful. So yeah, now

3:44

I live here. It was unintentional. Not

3:46

just a journalist visa, right? Because that came up a

3:48

lot in your doc. Yeah, it did. No,

3:50

I'm on the 01, the artist visa. I've

3:53

got another couple of years here. And then God

3:56

knows what's going to happen. Are you liking Los

3:58

Angeles? I love it here. OK.

3:59

I mean, I like

4:01

sort of odd people doing odd things. And

4:03

I feel like Los Angeles is just full of

4:05

that. It's just a combination of those types of things.

4:08

Yeah. I really do like it here.

4:10

I feel like New York is similar, right, Kira? It's kind of just,

4:13

I mean, you've got a lot of different people having

4:15

to go habitate. That's one way to

4:17

put it. Yeah. Exactly.

4:20

Well, very cool. Kira today. I

4:22

think we, I think we've heard enough about you. Yeah,

4:25

a fear. Yeah. That's all there is to say. Kira

4:28

today has our crime prepared. I don't

4:30

know what it is. So we're both going to

4:32

be, this is funny, because it's kind of what

4:35

you do. Like I said professionally, we're going to be

4:37

judge and jury, and she's going to be presenting

4:40

the crime to us. I love that. And we're going to be weighing

4:42

in on what we think. And I don't

4:45

know. I love weighing in. Judgments.

4:46

Yeah. Okay. Without

4:49

further ado, our crime begins.

4:54

Dear Griff and David, love

4:57

the show. Glad you're here. Hope

5:00

you're able to stay in LA just as long as you'd

5:02

like. They've written in. I

5:05

have a bit of a situation and I'm unsure

5:07

whether I'm a true criminal here, but I

5:10

end with a philosophical question about gift

5:12

giving at the end. I'd love your

5:14

take.

5:15

Here it goes.

5:16

Before we jump in, David, top line

5:18

thoughts on gift giving in general.

5:21

Oh, I find it so incredibly stressful.

5:24

And in America, it's over the top. In

5:26

New Zealand, it's one thing, but gift giving here,

5:29

birthdays, Christmas, all that stuff.

5:32

I hate every aspect to it.

5:34

Horrific. Okay. Not even, you don't

5:36

like the joy that it gives people when they receive the gift.

5:38

It's okay. It's the prep. It's like the

5:40

leader. It's just so stressful.

5:43

And I think we're also, we're adults. We're not

5:45

children. Yeah. Adults get in, especially

5:47

Americans, we get so excited and so,

5:50

I mean, I think it's, I don't

5:53

know. I'm going to be honest. I don't like it. I don't like anything

5:55

about it. There, there.

5:57

Is there like a cost difference between gifts in the U

5:59

S and. like New Zealand are real and want materialistic.

6:02

People just go a lot. Oh, you're... I

6:04

don't want to let rag on me. No, this is petty crime.

6:06

No, we're... It's so materialistic here

6:08

and people really care and it depends

6:11

on like...

6:13

It's just... It's over the top.

6:16

Yep. It's over the top. It's

6:18

too much. People judge you for what you give. People judge

6:20

for what you get. There's all these like different levels. It depends how like rich

6:23

your friends are. How they have money.

6:25

If they don't have money, there's all this weird social

6:27

stuff tied into it. And it's just...

6:30

It's horrific and I hate it.

6:31

Well, glad we have.

6:35

Yeah, if this were a real

6:37

crime, you would at this point

6:39

be excused from the jury, but this is petty

6:41

crimes where we invite those types

6:43

of big opinions and we take you

6:45

to the bench. The year is 2018. I'm

6:50

a mom to a preschooler, a toddler

6:53

and I'm a new homeowner. Yay

6:55

me. I have an overbearing mother-in-law,

6:58

but not the kind of overbearing that takes

7:00

on parental duties or shows up

7:02

unexpectedly to help with the children, do laundry,

7:04

make a meal or any type of tasks that could make a

7:06

parent's

7:07

life easier.

7:08

No, no. Not that kind of overbearing.

7:11

Instead, she's the kind of overbearing

7:13

who shows up unexpectedly and then expects

7:15

the routine to adjust to the visitor. Can't

7:18

hear when you say no. Takes over

7:20

the emotional space in every room, but oh

7:22

yeah, other than those things, she's honestly

7:24

lovely.

7:27

I don't have been lost, so I can't fully

7:29

relate to that. Yeah, I don't

7:31

either. It sounds

7:34

difficult, but they're very, very civil.

7:36

This is a letter written by someone that

7:38

knows that they might listen to the podcast. That's

7:41

right. I think very careful. Our petty criminals

7:43

are starting to realize we're growing

7:45

slowly but poorly and they've

7:48

just maybe be mindful of the crimes they

7:50

say. We can read between the lines. Exactly.

7:53

As you digress back to the scene, my

7:55

mother-in-law, who we'll call Viola,

7:58

was over one night. past bedtime

8:01

telling scary animal stories I would

8:03

surely need to untie in the middle of the night.

8:06

Before she left, without helping put the

8:08

revved up kids to bed, she asked whether

8:11

we would like some sheets she had come across

8:13

from when her kids were young. Now

8:16

this is a good time to tell you I'm not

8:18

a stuff person. I

8:21

err on the side of minimalism. I like

8:24

empty space to move around and a half-filled closet

8:26

gives me great joy. So I paused

8:28

and I asked, well, what size are

8:30

the sheets? To which she replied, bubble.

8:34

Neither of my children were sleeping in double-sized beds

8:36

nor was I, so I politely declined. No

8:39

thank you. They won't work on our beds. We

8:41

all have two sets anyways. She said, no

8:44

problem. And I thought the

8:46

matter was settled. David,

8:48

any thoughts so far?

8:50

I mean sheets are an unusual gift. I

8:54

don't know. Yeah, if that's fine though, it all seems

8:56

civil and fine. It was a kind offer.

8:58

Would you like these things for the bed? I said,

9:00

no, we're okay. Thanks. Everything

9:02

seems good. What could go wrong? Yeah.

9:05

That's so funny. I got a sheet for my costume this past weekend

9:07

and I only needed to lose sheet.

9:10

And so I have like a black fitted sheet

9:12

and pillow covers that I want

9:14

to give to someone. So it's really topical

9:17

right now. What are you

9:19

going to want? The sheet? I made a black

9:21

cape and I became a vampire. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

9:25

I'm left with like

9:27

four different sheets that I need to gift or like,

9:30

I guess donate. I don't know. So

9:32

I can understand the sheets gifts a little. Also

9:35

her coming in and like telling ghost stories would be the

9:37

equivalent to the kids would be the equivalent

9:39

of me coming to where your dog's sitting, like

9:41

playing with the dog and screaming at it and then leaving

9:43

for you to like put it back to bed. Horrible.

9:46

Yeah. Yeah. Horrendous.

9:49

So

9:49

were they there when you sheets, right? Were they, what? No,

9:52

they were. Her kids

9:54

were children. So a little bit of,

9:56

okay. So no rewind. Yeah. Horrible.

9:59

I'm just going to drift it off. No,

10:02

awful. You don't give someone new sheets. Horrific.

10:06

At least the ones I have are literally brand new,

10:08

like still in their little, like, square. No, I didn't.

10:10

Like, sheets. No. No. Old sheets.

10:13

No wonder she didn't really want them. They probably would

10:15

have been peed into if they were like, in sheets. In

10:17

sheets. In sheets. No.

10:20

OK, so I missed that. OK. No

10:22

problem. The matter is settled. Or

10:24

is it? Two

10:27

weeks later, I arrived home

10:30

after a long day of work to find

10:32

stacks and stacks of

10:34

sheets folded up in my

10:36

living room on the couch. Another

10:38

item, may I note, I had attempted to

10:40

decline that now resides in

10:43

my living room, this damn

10:45

couch. Anyway, when I say

10:47

stacks of sheets, I mean stacks.

10:50

So many double-sized sheets, again,

10:53

don't fit the beds, that they'd fill my strategically

10:56

half-full linen closet and then some.

10:58

What could one do with such an abundance

11:01

of sheets?

11:03

Absolutely not. Make costumes?

11:05

Yes, this is, yes. I know

11:07

someone that needs them. This is my only idea. But yeah.

11:10

So she has an abundance of full-sized

11:12

sheets.

11:14

Yeah, yeah. I think a

11:16

full is a double, right? That's the same?

11:17

Yeah. Oh, sorry. It's a double. I mean, it doesn't even matter

11:19

what size the sheets are. She clearly said

11:21

she didn't want the sheets, these used

11:24

sheets. Yeah. Why

11:26

so many sheets? Like, I feel like that

11:28

is like a huge volume. Yeah. I

11:30

mean, she's being used as a, like,

11:33

instead of paying, and

11:35

you pay to dump rubbish in America? What

11:37

would you do to get rid of sheets? Do we will? Or

11:39

do you have to take

11:40

them? No, no. You could take them to the Goodwill

11:42

completely for free.

11:44

But they can make the decision whether or not, like, hi,

11:46

ma'am, were these sheets used? Yeah.

11:48

Oh, they are. Sorry. We're actually not going to take those. Can you do

11:50

that? Yes. I also feel like their house was probably

11:53

closer, and it was just more convenient to dump them

11:55

at this house than at a Goodwill or somewhere

11:57

else. I'm hating this behavior.

12:01

I wonder if she's like empty nesting and she sees

12:04

like these kids shoots her home. She sees

12:06

these kids in another home and she's like gifting

12:08

like a mom to a mom. Yeah,

12:11

maybe. I mean, that's a very positive

12:13

way of reading it. Yeah, it seems like

12:15

a positive person. It's good. That's

12:18

good to be positive. I'm not enjoying

12:20

the scenario. No. Well,

12:23

he's hating being. What they were just there like

12:25

was that they've got a key to the house. They just opened

12:27

the house and just dumped these sheets and then like ran

12:30

off. Seemingly. Yes.

12:31

Horrific. Yep.

12:34

Dear reader. Oh,

12:36

if this were the end of the story, I'm

12:39

certain you'd be on my side as David and

12:41

Griff, you both are. Who

12:43

forces sheets from the 1980s

12:45

upon someone who already politely

12:48

declined them? But it's not the end. No,

12:51

no, there's more to this story. As I lifted

12:53

the sheets up to look at them, they were frayed.

12:56

They had holes. They no

12:58

longer had the elasticity to hold them

13:00

to a bed. To the bed, they wouldn't fit.

13:03

These fitted sheets would not fit. No, no, this would

13:05

not do. I could not have these sheets taking

13:07

up my precious closet

13:08

space.

13:10

As I, any ideas for what

13:12

to do with these sheets?

13:15

Pillow, like save them for like playtime pillow

13:17

forts. Yeah, I mean,

13:19

sit them on fire. That

13:23

certainly is an idea, David. Yeah. Frustrating

13:27

me. Yeah, I don't know what I would

13:29

do with an abundance of sheets. Actually, I

13:32

prefer to have like one extra set and that's it. That's

13:34

why I'm freaking out. You also like, how many,

13:37

why so many sheets? I feel like you don't

13:39

need that many sheets. That's my only

13:41

thought. Like, are

13:43

they all bedwitters, excessive bedwitters?

13:46

I don't know. I have friends with kids. Yeah. And

13:49

I feel like they don't have this many

13:51

sheets that are taking up by all this hallway space

13:53

and so many sheets. You

13:55

would have to ask them. Imagine when you asked them and they're

13:58

like, yeah, we have five sets per gig. Oh

14:00

my gosh. Yeah, maybe. I'm not a parent,

14:02

so I don't know, but it seems, I don't know, it seems excessive.

14:06

Yeah. Yes.

14:07

As I lay in bed that night, thinking

14:09

about this true dilemma, a solution

14:11

began to form. You see, I

14:13

had recently begun the onerous process

14:16

of killing my weed lawn.

14:18

A perfectly descriptive term, you'll figure it out.

14:21

But without wanting to use chemicals for this project,

14:24

I have been using black plastic

14:26

sheeting in small sections to kill the grass

14:28

and then plant bee-friendly flora

14:31

over time. I realized from earlier episodes,

14:33

this may not be everyone's cup of tea, but alas, my

14:35

yard, I'm doing my thing. Do you

14:37

see where this is going? I see where this is going. I see where

14:39

these sheets are going. Like in the garden,

14:41

right? Yeah, just cover up all the grass.

14:43

Just kill all the weeds. Yeah, the weeds

14:46

chuck those sheets over. Which for a

14:48

gardener is like, wow, that's a great repurpose of

14:50

that. For a mother gifting the sheets,

14:52

it might be like, why are they in the dirt? I

14:54

mean, this is going to end horribly. Oh,

14:56

right. I'm

15:00

excited.

15:01

I decided that a more cost-effective and

15:03

environmentally friendly solution would be to lay these sheets

15:05

all over my backyard with a privacy

15:07

fence. This is not a crime. Let the

15:10

snow fall and in the spring have a fresh,

15:12

dirty canvas upon which to plant my

15:14

pollinator lawn. Over

15:17

the next week, I lay all the sheets down for

15:19

which there were plenty and began the waiting

15:21

phase of this green project. The following

15:24

weekend, my mother-in-law comes by

15:26

unannounced for a visit. We're

15:28

all chatting in the living room, sitting on the couches

15:30

that I never wanted, when she glances

15:33

out the window into the backyard. Suddenly

15:36

the mood shifts in the room. She asks, are

15:40

those my sheets? I

15:45

proudly affirm and explain the

15:47

project and how industrious I am at utilizing

15:49

unneeded fabric. I tell you, she begins

15:51

to cry.

15:59

anyone because in your documentary

16:02

tickled I'm halfway through Mr. Oregon

16:04

were there I just feel like crying is such a like

16:07

disarming tactic it is

16:09

yeah I mean did you ever encounter in your

16:11

like interviews in your investigation yeah

16:14

when someone cries did you ever cry

16:16

I cry Mr. organ okay I

16:18

do which is a horrific

16:22

thing for me to watch back like you know

16:24

one wants to see themselves cry I'm not laughing no

16:26

it's fine it's okay it's all right I'm

16:29

over it now but it's yeah it can

16:31

be a I mean that's the question was this a like

16:33

a tactic yes mother-in-law is using or is

16:35

it a you know is it something is she

16:37

genuinely upset I mean she said I

16:39

don't want to be it sounds

16:41

like slightly unhinged kind of behavior

16:44

like all of this sounds yeah welcome

16:46

to petty crimes yeah we're in America

16:49

to this take place do we know oh

16:51

yes in

16:53

a little town in Northeast

16:56

Indiana okay

16:57

yeah quiet kind of

17:00

yeah okay we try to protect the

17:02

the identities of our pet criminals

17:05

as much as he is your exactly yeah

17:08

remember different different than your approach to things we're

17:10

not going to their house okay yeah

17:12

and they're not coming to yours so you're protected

17:15

that's why I did leave off in the talk oh

17:17

yeah yeah all

17:19

right so she's crying

17:21

yeah so if this were you and

17:24

you had done this with the sheets and your

17:26

mother-in-law had begun to cry

17:29

what would you have done in that

17:31

moment I

17:33

mean you I'm here you I offer

17:37

another sheet as a tissue

17:39

for her tears or

17:42

you know what I'm just like what's

17:44

going on here because like these are sheets they're

17:47

like being used for a purpose they're growing

17:49

life or they're helping life grow yeah like

17:51

what is to your point it's a little unhinged so I'd be like what

17:54

are these tears coming yeah there's something there's

17:56

something else going on in this family like this some

17:59

this is like set

18:01

something off that's just been sitting in my ever

18:03

since like the couches or there's

18:06

something going on in this family and this is a trigger

18:08

for that and it just needs to be clearly

18:10

talked about and there needs to be a group

18:12

discussion because this is Ridiculous.

18:16

It's also like this was a gift so, you know to

18:18

be on to be the counsel for the mother-in-law

18:21

It was a gift. So it may be as a shocking for her

18:23

to see What she thought

18:25

was an intentional gift many of them

18:28

laid out in dirt Like the visual

18:30

of it's a little can be a little jarring I guess I

18:32

think she took it as an insult that these sheets had

18:35

been like shoved on the dirt hugely insulting.

18:37

Yeah. Yeah

18:38

so

18:41

This point that I learned that her alleged

18:43

vision is that she would tuck her grandchildren into

18:46

the same bed sheets that she Tucked her

18:48

children into 25 years ago Now

18:52

I recognize that I'm not a sentimental person

18:54

at least not in the way where items take on more

18:56

meaning than the act But for those who

18:58

are sentimental with home goods, is

19:00

this a thing? Do people have

19:02

nurturing fantasies about the sheets they

19:05

will use when tucking children in the

19:07

request was made for me to go outside

19:10

Pick up the sheets wash them

19:13

and bring them to one of her

19:14

storage unit that was she asked

19:16

for that to happen the mother Mm-hmm.

19:20

So she wants so she wants

19:22

the she wants the sheets back now She

19:25

doesn't washed and back in her storage

19:27

shed. Yep I

19:30

mean, it sounds like Hoarding

19:32

kind of behavior. I mean I want to see inside the

19:34

storage shed now and see what's in there What's

19:36

your take on the like the approach

19:38

of it's kind of romantic like I

19:41

talked and I kind of hinted at this earlier I talked to my

19:43

kids in when they were kids that energy is gonna

19:45

be now talking your kids in what

19:47

do you know? I'm not buying it like you

19:50

can pass down like a Friendly

19:52

teddy bear or something or something

19:54

like not tatty old sheets.

19:56

Like what else she's giving like have mine have this nappy

19:59

Yeah I used to like wrap my children in these nappies

20:02

and that shit all in them and like and now they're washed

20:04

have a hundred Old shitty nappies.

20:07

I want to read have the I mean what how

20:09

far does this go? They're like sheets No,

20:13

it's not it's there's nothing pleasant about

20:15

this it's like it's unhinged It's

20:17

really unusual. I'm sure we'll cover this in the

20:20

verdict But we do have to think about like should she have

20:22

warned the mother-in-law about

20:25

what we were gonna do exactly But what you know, I think

20:27

we'll yeah potentially I mean there were unwanted

20:29

gifts, you know Like she made a clear she didn't even

20:31

want these and she didn't say I would

20:34

love these sheets I'm gonna tuck my kids in

20:36

with them. She never wanted them like

20:38

they would drop off when she wasn't even home

20:40

and so She has the right to do whatever

20:42

she wants to do with those sheets Yeah,

20:45

I just now feel wound up Perfect.

20:49

So

20:50

if you have this hypothetical mother-in-law

20:52

and and this at all ensued

20:54

with the sheets and she asked you to go outside and

20:56

Get them out of the garden and wash them and give them back

20:58

to her and put them in a storage unit Would you

21:00

have done that?

21:02

Look it depends on whether you

21:04

want to maintain the relationship like what

21:07

how important is this relationship? It's

21:09

your mother-in-law, you know, is your mother-in-law is you're gonna

21:11

be stuck with them for a relatively long time

21:13

So it's this balancing act, right? Yeah,

21:16

I mean you shouldn't have to I mean she's just been given

21:18

more work now Like how many sheets

21:20

are out there like yeah. Yeah,

21:23

I hear that How many 25 25 a lot

21:25

of washes Like

21:30

a day or two of just washing yep,

21:33

and then also it's like To

21:35

your point draw the line. It's like What's

21:38

the mother-in-law's name? We've named her right Viola

21:40

Viola Viola like if I do

21:43

this if I honor your request We

21:45

work they've been in the dirt for a season like

21:47

we can't give them back to the kids Yeah,

21:50

so to my point like I think this is time for

21:52

a discussion like I don't you can't honor that request

21:54

It even just doesn't make sense logically. It

21:56

doesn't make you think emotional which is fine because we're

21:58

emotional people

22:00

I did as I was asked. I

22:03

went out into the garden and I scooped up the 25

22:05

dirty sheets. I

22:07

spent days washing and folding them and I brought

22:09

them to one of her multiple

22:11

storage units. Okay, see

22:14

this information is interesting. Multiple storage

22:16

units. This is kind of... I

22:19

thought originally when the sheets were dropped off at the house,

22:21

it's because she had no storage.

22:23

But this revelation that the storage, she

22:25

had somewhere this entire time the sheets could

22:28

have happily stayed. There's a whole

22:30

other dimension. It was purely for re-nesting

22:32

purposes. There's some sort of weird

22:34

power play going on here as well. It's like a power thing.

22:37

It's like you must wash these and give them... There's

22:39

some dynamic that's deeply out here. Next she's going

22:42

to be texting people. Yeah, that's where it's

22:44

going to go.

22:46

I would say to say the least, this

22:49

mother-in-law is

22:49

a stuff person. Yeah,

22:52

and our protagonist is truly the

22:54

opposite of that. I'm picturing Kim K's house,

22:56

minimal, beautiful. But it's

22:59

kind of respectable that she's able to be like, you know,

23:01

this is not something that carries meaning,

23:03

so let's not have it. Because I sometimes

23:05

struggle with that. Sure.

23:09

I was chastised by my family for my

23:11

lack of gratitude, but I kept my tail between

23:13

my legs. So now, Griff and

23:15

David, I must ask

23:16

you... The family's

23:19

on... Why is everyone against this

23:22

whole woman who's dealing with all this? She's

23:24

got no backup from her family? Mind you,

23:27

these stories are singularly perspective. It

23:31

might be slightly, no, completely. We

23:35

have a certain cap on our investigative journalism

23:37

and it rarely includes... I want to interview everyone

23:40

of the whole... I kind of do those. One day, one day.

23:43

Sorry, I

23:45

interrupted. No, please.

23:46

That's the question. You're

23:48

right. I mean,

23:50

the way this is written, it's hard not

23:53

to be solidly on the side of the submitter.

23:57

I must ask you, am I a criminal?

24:00

for attempting to be cost effective and environmentally

24:03

cautious in using these holy

24:05

old sheets to kill my weeds.

24:08

Well that's what we've got to figure out. I

24:11

mean I don't think this is a particularly difficult

24:14

case. I mean I see very

24:17

few issues with with any of this you

24:19

know. It's

24:20

I

24:21

mean I don't know what to say. Yeah well

24:24

Kira I'm sure you have some verdict questions prepared.

24:26

I do. We tick through the like

24:28

players and the crying. I'm done. I don't

24:31

think I have any last final thoughts. I think we've

24:37

ignored we've tried to empathize with Viola.

24:40

We've acknowledged that this is being told through the protagonist's

24:43

perspective. So maybe she received

24:45

them and she was a little meaner then she's conveying. Who

24:47

knows? That's all hearsay. You know that word.

24:50

I also feel like I want more information.

24:53

Like I feel like there should have been this discussion at this

24:55

point and I don't know if that was had or not. Yeah.

24:58

It's mother-in-law like look there's initially

25:00

I like I told you in the first place I didn't want these sheets.

25:02

You gained me anyway. Like they

25:05

don't fit. They're frayed. This was

25:07

like something. So I feel like I'm

25:09

curious if this discussion even happened

25:11

or not. Yeah. It's like. So

25:14

yeah.

25:14

You know I want more.

25:16

From my from

25:19

the further details that I have

25:21

I would say conversations

25:23

like that with the motherless have proven

25:26

pointless in the past. So she

25:28

no longer bothers. Yeah.

25:31

Yeah.

25:33

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Are

25:35

you ready for the verdict

25:37

question? Yeah. This is where we this is

25:39

where we pound the gavel. I'm ready. All right.

25:41

Walk us through. And

25:43

remember as it was stated in the beginning this the verdict

25:46

questions will end with a philosophical

25:49

quandary. Am

25:51

I a criminal for attempting to be cost-effective

25:53

and using the old sheets to come I weep.

25:57

It seems like a good use

25:59

of. those sheets. Like

26:02

I was struggling to think what you do with those sheets. You've

26:04

already got your costume.

26:06

You don't need another ghost. It was

26:08

a great use for those sheets.

26:11

Yep. Agreed. Agreed

26:13

from my end.

26:15

Is

26:15

my mother-in-law guilty

26:18

for claiming the sheets were intended to tuck

26:20

the children in when she has never

26:23

helped with bedtime or ever

26:25

had a sleepover with these said children?

26:28

Oh, that's an interesting one.

26:30

It is.

26:34

I'll speak quickly. I don't

26:36

find her guilty for that. I can see

26:39

why the disconnect between her actually doing that

26:41

and the purpose of the gift. I see that disconnect,

26:44

but I'm not going to rule a grandmother

26:46

guilty for wanting to like, I

26:49

don't know, give some love, literally love

26:51

energy to these kids in the form of the

26:54

retalking. I think it's strange and

26:56

we've already exhausted that. It's like weird, the sheets are gross.

26:58

They don't fit, which is I keep forgetting they do

27:00

not fit, but I'm not going to find her guilty

27:03

for that. Maybe she should help out at bedtime a

27:05

little bit more. But I agree. I

27:07

think not guilty on that count. I

27:09

think in her mind, she was doing

27:11

a kindness. Yeah.

27:14

And so that's, you can't factor

27:16

in like, what is she not doing? What is she doing? That's

27:19

a separate case. Yeah. On the sheets, it was a

27:22

kindness. It was not a great kindness,

27:24

but it was a kindness. So yeah, I'm not guilty.

27:27

I wonder if the protagonist has ever been like, grandma

27:30

Viola, like come over and tuck them in and

27:32

do this. It's like, I don't, based

27:34

on kind of like how our protagonist has been kind

27:37

of built out, maybe she's particular

27:40

about how she puts her kids to bed and she might not even

27:42

want Viola's help. So I don't, I don't remember

27:44

her ever asking for help. So I don't

27:46

think she asked.

27:48

I will say, you

27:49

know, I think one

27:51

of the great joys of being a grandparent is

27:53

that you get to do all the fun stuff. And

27:56

being a parent is hard and you already did it. And

27:58

now you get to tell. stories that

28:00

are a little too scary and have

28:02

a blast with the kids and you leave before

28:05

bedtime. So I

28:06

feel like

28:08

she seems like a fun grandmother.

28:10

That makes sense and Kira

28:12

knows because Kira's a grandmother. I'll

28:16

tell you that later. You're

28:19

great. I really didn't say that as though I were speaking

28:21

from Mike. No but like Kira, you have kids

28:23

in the family, your parents or grandparents, mine are

28:25

as well. I'm not sure if you have

28:27

kids in your family. I've seen

28:29

my parents tread lightly on

28:31

this line of parenting and grandparenting

28:34

where it's like, no, no, you've done that already so

28:36

take the fun route now and let the hard work stay with

28:38

you. Yeah and the way this relationship

28:40

is going, I don't think she wants Viola

28:43

in there every other night. No. I don't

28:45

think that's something that they would probably want.

28:48

I sense that too. It's

28:51

11pm, get out of my house. Yeah.

28:55

And when do you put kids to bed? Sorry.

28:59

Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

29:01

I'm with you on that.

29:02

Is Viola guilty for giving sheets

29:05

that would not work for the beds in our home

29:08

and even if they would, weren't in good enough shape

29:10

to be used

29:10

on the bed? Is she guilty for that? Let's

29:14

not even explore it. Yeah, absolutely.

29:16

She was told very clearly, don't want the sheets.

29:19

She should have listened.

29:21

Now the final question.

29:25

Is a gift only to be

29:27

used in the manner for which the

29:30

gifter intended?

29:32

Ooh, I really like this. We

29:34

thought a few criminal reminimals about

29:36

repurposing gifts. We thought wedding crimes,

29:39

registries, birthday gifts. Yeah,

29:41

that's interesting. This is also such

29:43

like a, it's a unique thing

29:45

because there's a, you

29:48

know, it's such a, I could see how putting

29:50

the sheets on dirt is disrespectful

29:53

as a gift. It's beautiful like vase

29:55

and it's like smashing the vase on the ground. I'm going

29:57

to use these pieces to mix them up. Yeah,

30:00

exactly. You know, you just sort of grind

30:03

it down and throw it on the garden. So, no, this

30:05

is fascinating. Yeah. Does it have

30:07

to be, I mean, technically, if you're given something,

30:10

you should be able to do whatever you want with it, I

30:12

think. Sure. But this is

30:14

extreme because, you know,

30:16

in her mind, it was going to be used as this beautiful thing for

30:18

the kids. Totally. Now it's just

30:21

in with the worms, you know? It's all complicated. It

30:25

couldn't have been a further pivot

30:27

from its intended purpose, which is you brought

30:29

up, that's a good point, David. I just, part

30:32

of me is like, the fact that she's

30:34

even using the gift is like, lovely, right? It's

30:37

like I chose to use it in some kind of way. Oh, there's

30:39

nothing lovely about

30:41

putting these cat in the

30:43

hat bedsheets for children in the

30:45

garden

30:47

the same way you would have been using a tarp. It's

30:50

slightly more respectful than my idea of sitting them on

30:52

fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, why not from

30:54

that? But you're right. Hardly, hardly. It's

30:57

not particularly respectful. Yeah, you're right. That

30:59

is a shocking thing. Okay, so like maybe

31:02

a boiled down question from this,

31:04

would you rather someone use your gift or

31:06

not use your gift at all?

31:08

I mean, would she be as equally upset if she'd

31:11

come home and just wear these sheets instead, given

31:13

them to Goodwill or she'd

31:15

given them back? Or they're in the closet collecting

31:18

dust. Or in the closet collecting dust, you know? It's,

31:21

I'm conflicted. Yeah. I'm really conflicted, yeah. Dang.

31:25

As a farm boy, I grew up on a farm. Our listeners know

31:27

that. Kira's been there. I

31:30

feel like it's, like the repurposing

31:32

of it, you're still growing life. Like the garden

31:35

is now very healthy and vibrant because of that energy

31:37

from the sheets. So. Completely beautiful.

31:40

Grab your trees or blossoms from the trees.

31:42

The urine. The urine, all that fertilized.

31:45

The urine. You know, yeah, this beautiful

31:48

blossom tree or something. That

31:50

came thanks to those beautiful trees. If it blossomed

31:53

by the tree, I

31:54

have no idea. Okay, got it. Got it.

31:57

I couldn't disagree more. Oh.

32:00

shocking image of being these

32:03

hand me down family heirloom

32:05

bed sheets be put

32:07

out into the garden without warning

32:10

is worse than silently

32:13

donating them to Goodwill or shoving them in the

32:15

back of the attic.

32:17

I wanted to know, could you see, we

32:19

are getting one perspective of the story. Like I would

32:21

maybe now, I mean, you're talking me around now. I

32:24

think my gut's complicated, isn't it? I

32:26

mean, the intent, was

32:28

the intent of putting those sheets in the garden

32:31

purely, this is

32:33

something beautiful in my garden or was it a slight

32:35

middle finger? Was there an element of

32:37

that and that's something I had thought of until now? That's

32:40

a really good question. And we're only getting a very

32:42

one-sided view of this whole situation. That's

32:46

the thing swung now onto

32:48

wacky grandmother's side. I'm sensing

32:51

that your third documentary is going to be a follow-up

32:53

to the whole. Wacky

32:55

grandmother. Yeah, sheet gate. Bull

32:58

sheet. Yeah. Yeah,

33:00

I think in this case, they probably shouldn't have been

33:02

in the dirt. Shouldn't

33:04

have been in the dirt. Yeah,

33:07

I guess like taking that extra step of

33:09

being like, no, this does make sense, it's helping

33:11

my garden. But then the like optics

33:13

of what it would read to Viola

33:16

is maybe why you probably should have just kept

33:19

them in the closet. Hadn't have been. Or

33:21

had some sort of discussion, you know, like

33:24

before all this happened. Honestly,

33:26

did you hear me when I said I didn't want these sheets?

33:29

Oh, maybe I started like that. But look,

33:31

I'm thinking of doing this with them. What do you think of that?

33:34

Grandma says, it's a terrible idea. I'll pick

33:36

them up and put them in my storage shed. No drama.

33:39

Yeah. I think it's a lack of communication, isn't it? Yeah.

33:41

Yes. Complete lack

33:43

of communication. This wasn't written in in the questions, but I'm curious.

33:46

What do you think happened with

33:48

the couches, the couches in her living

33:50

room that she didn't

33:51

want? Well, sort of background

33:54

noise, isn't it, to this whole story? She's brought it up a

33:56

couple of times. I forgot about couches. Because

34:00

your couches are annoying. I

34:02

bought in New Zealand before I

34:04

bought a couch for my first sort of couch I bought

34:07

in a long time. And I rushed

34:10

into it. I sat in it for like a minute at

34:12

the store before I bought it. Oh my God. Turns out to be

34:14

the most uncomfortable couch you can ever sit on. Oh

34:16

no. And this couch sits and I hate this

34:19

couch because it just represents. I hate it so

34:21

much. Yeah. And so having this, it sounds like having these

34:23

couches in the house has just been slowly

34:25

churning. Oh. And churning is this thing that

34:27

she doesn't like. She wished she didn't have this particular

34:29

couch in the house. And that is this background

34:32

noise. Yeah. Hasn't been addressed and probably needs

34:34

to be. And she's taken out that frustration

34:37

more actively with the sheets. Interesting.

34:40

Wow.

34:41

And is there other, I mean, are there other items in the

34:43

house? Other items she was given though that she may be liked

34:45

and appreciated from grandma or is

34:47

it just being the couch and just being the couch? Yeah.

34:50

It sounds like most gifts from the grandmother

34:52

are not really wanted. Yeah.

34:57

Yeah. Fair enough.

34:59

Again, a discussion needs to be heard about that,

35:01

right? Totally. Yeah. And why

35:03

does she keep, like I'm surprised the way this

35:06

person works is you didn't like chop the couch

35:08

up the kindling or something, you know? What about the

35:10

fire? Second time you brought up fires. Yeah.

35:13

Something you need to know about. Resafier? Yeah.

35:15

Like why did the couch survive and the sheets

35:17

didn't, I don't know.

35:18

It sounds like the

35:22

sheets were maybe a little bit of a final straw

35:24

or maybe it was like, they literally

35:26

don't fit and they're filled

35:28

with holes. Yeah. I'm

35:30

sending a message. They're going out in the car. Yeah. Yeah.

35:33

Which is fair because, you know, when do you,

35:36

with gifts, it's like if you keep giving someone

35:39

one thing that they don't really like or multiple

35:41

things that are just not on brand for them and you don't have

35:43

a sense of what they do like, at what point

35:45

in that gift giving timeline, do you

35:47

say like,

35:48

stop? Yeah. Um, yeah.

35:51

My dad makes these really good mint chocolate

35:53

chip cookies. And my, if

35:55

you, one person has said like, these

35:58

are good, like in front of them. Cause even if they didn't. like

36:00

it, they're not gonna be like, this is awful. But

36:02

this person actually doesn't like mint in their chocolate

36:04

chip cookie. But because they said,

36:08

one time my dad has made him for him like

36:10

many, many times. Oh no. Oh

36:13

yeah, maybe I should get him to write a crime in. Too late.

36:16

So, and it's like, I love my dad, I love

36:18

this person. It's like, where in this timeline do they

36:20

have an honest conversation, to your point? How

36:23

many years have they been eating these mints? Fourteen.

36:26

No, I'm kidding, it's only been like two. It's

36:29

only been two or something. Oh yeah, that's

36:31

incredible. Yeah, yeah. So, this

36:34

was a tricky, intricate crime. And

36:36

I feel like David's mind really unpacked a

36:38

lot of things that I wouldn't have thought of. Oh,

36:40

it stressed me out so much, this entire scenario.

36:43

And I do wanna hear every angle.

36:46

And I wanna just hear these different perspectives because

36:48

it's amazing how easily you get swayed by one

36:51

really like strongly written letter. Yeah,

36:53

which makes you respect proper courtrooms.

36:55

Oh, 100 year win. I

36:58

am one of those people that will watch like a courtroom

37:00

documentary or a drama. And I'll just like

37:02

get swayed by each like each defense.

37:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, depending on the defense. I'll

37:07

just sway, I'll bounce between

37:09

the two of them. But that's the

37:11

T on courtrooms though. It's like, that's why our responsibility

37:14

for people like us in the petty crimes court is

37:16

hefty. Yeah, very hefty. Are you laughing

37:18

at Kira?

37:20

I'm laughing at the sentence, that's

37:22

the T on courtroom. Yeah, exactly.

37:25

That's how I would be talking as a lawyer. And now it's the T on

37:27

that. Yeah, I rest my case. Before

37:29

we transition to our segment, criminal or minimal, I'm

37:33

going to re-ask this final philosophical question and

37:37

you have to answer it with a yes or a no and

37:39

no explanation. Okay. Thank

37:42

you. Is a gift only to be used in the manner

37:46

for which the giver intends it? Yes.

37:49

Okay. And I'm gonna ask you a

37:51

question. Which the giver intends it?

37:54

No.

37:56

Nor. No.

38:00

Okay. Yep. That's it.

38:02

We can't say anything else.

38:03

Two no's. Two no's from the fellas. Alright,

38:06

thank you.

38:07

That was sick. Okay. And so

38:09

stressful. Yeah. It's so stressful.

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39:16

Hi, it's Kelsey McKinney from Normal Gossip.

39:18

At long last, we

39:20

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39:22

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39:23

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40:46

And now it's time for our favorite

40:49

little segment, criminal or minimal. But

40:51

before we dive into those, David, would

40:53

you mind telling our listeners a little bit about your

40:55

current film, Mr. Organ? Yes,

40:58

Mr. Organ, out now

41:00

in cinemas and coming to streaming next

41:02

month. Ooh. It's sort

41:05

of, for about four years, I

41:07

kind of hung out with the low key in New

41:10

Zealand. And

41:13

I was sort of documenting what they had

41:15

been doing to other people,

41:17

but then sometime during the filming process,

41:20

they kind of set their sights on me and

41:22

things got like very, very weird. Yeah.

41:25

And I've had a film where he sort of tells me, I've

41:28

got a key to your house and I've had it for the last

41:30

year and there's all these, it just,

41:32

before I know it, I'm kind of being sucked into

41:34

this like very weird void and I'm filming

41:36

the whole time. Yeah. So yeah,

41:39

it's sort of a warning about, probably don't

41:41

befriend certain people.

41:43

Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to figure

41:46

those people, like see their true colors.

41:48

Yeah, but really, you know, it's about that kind

41:50

of person. I mean, it kind of fits in, you know, there's

41:53

no murders in this documentary, but it's

41:55

kind of, there's these people out there who,

41:58

you know, have various personality traits. It's made

42:00

them incredibly dangerous to be around

42:02

and that's like the all those traits

42:04

personified in this one person. That's

42:06

yeah, really scary I'm at the top

42:09

lot you guys and the where I'm

42:11

in the film You just brought him into a

42:13

hotel room your first like in-person

42:15

interaction with him And it's just like it's I

42:17

mean similar to certain Interactions in

42:19

tickled. It's just like really uncomfortable

42:22

to watch. Yeah, that's so charged. It's

42:24

like it's just wild So props

42:26

to you and yeah, I think if people like

42:28

tickled I think they will enjoy these

42:30

kind of vibes because it like tickled it starts in a place

42:32

It's kind of light and fun and then it just

42:34

sort of descends into this sort

42:36

of very chaotic space. Yeah. Yep. Well

42:40

We're gonna stay in the light and fun territory.

42:42

Yes fair I mean you can bring chaos

42:44

if you'd like but we would prove not to yeah,

42:47

we've got some criminal or minimal prepared And

42:50

we're gonna give them to you. Yeah, please

42:52

Do you want a good one? I can start us out.

42:54

Yeah

42:58

Doing solo

43:00

yoga at a busy beach criminal

43:03

or minimal

43:05

minimal Pray

43:10

Okay, honey

43:11

any any further thoughts are just minimal

43:14

minimal it's fine I mean, I just do yoga wherever

43:16

you want. I mean yoga. It's a good thing

43:18

to do. It's good for the body I

43:20

have like back problems. I try and do yoga.

43:22

I think do yoga we want. Yeah, you're doing something.

43:25

Yeah, perfect fair I don't know why I give that life

43:27

doing yoga on the beach yesterday. It was not busy Yeah,

43:30

but I mean I wouldn't choose to do it because I'm like

43:32

quite a self-conscious person But if you want to do

43:34

it go for it, okay, great Okay,

43:37

criminal or minimal submitted by Sophia Telling

43:41

your niece that the food you're eating is spicy

43:43

so that she won't steal any of yours Lying

43:47

to a child. Yeah criminal You

43:52

got to teach those children good habits.

43:54

Yeah honesty truth. Yep. And I guess if she'd know oh, it's

43:57

not even spicy I got fooled by it That's

44:00

not quite the other way. Sorry.

44:03

I'm the child. It's really good. All

44:05

right, criminal. Don't lie to kids, everyone. Or adults,

44:07

apparently. Oh, well, I don't know about that.

44:14

Maintaining a policy that

44:17

you ignore text messages containing

44:19

questions with answers that are

44:21

easily Googleable.

44:23

Criminal or minimal?

44:25

Oh, minimal.

44:27

Yeah, I mean, we're living in this time where just

44:29

messages are just so much clutter.

44:32

You know, DMs, texts, emails,

44:34

all the things. If people are sending you messages

44:36

where it's just right there, those people

44:39

have to learn how to fend for themselves

44:41

out there and not rely on you. Absolutely

44:44

don't reply. I mean, I'd block them. I'd

44:46

be in my friendship. You're a blocker. I've

44:50

got no time for this. Got it. But limited

44:52

time on this planet, if you're dealing with

44:54

that sort of stuff, there's just no point. Yeah, that's

44:56

fair. I'm a vampire. Hardline

44:58

on that.

44:59

I have a lot of time. Yeah, me too.

45:01

Okay, criminal or minimal? Swinted

45:03

by angle there. That's third.

45:06

Instagram handle. Kissing

45:09

your mother on the lips as an adult?

45:11

Oh, criminal.

45:13

Absolutely. I mean, I've got big issues with

45:15

people who kiss on the lips in friendships. I've got

45:18

a friend and I sort of dread seeing

45:20

them because whenever I see them, it's just like I can see it

45:22

coming. They zone in and it's

45:24

just like a big kiss on the lips. No. No,

45:28

absolutely not. We have to have. I

45:31

mean, what's next? Yeah. Well, I

45:33

can think of a few things. It's a slippery slope. Yeah. And

45:36

so come on. Apparently,

45:37

come on, David, we have limited

45:40

time on this planet.

45:40

We want to kiss our mom. Let us kiss our

45:42

mom. No,

45:45

but look,

45:46

each of their own, in my mind, criminal.

45:49

I lose. Got

45:51

to be. Look.

45:55

I can just sing you my mom. Beautiful

45:57

Pam. No, criminal.

46:00

I mean, it's not for me either, but you

46:02

know, whatever floats your boat. Yeah. That's a

46:04

part of your love language. I had a friend growing

46:06

up who kissed their dad on the mouth. He was a guy

46:09

friend of mine. And, you know,

46:11

I'm a queer man and I've evolved

46:13

into doing that pretty often. Yeah. Not with

46:15

my dad or my mom. The family

46:18

element just throws something... Honestly,

46:21

look, if you're expressing affection towards your family,

46:23

that's great. But I just

46:26

think,

46:26

I don't know.

46:28

I think I'm picturing to you like

46:30

a make-up. A peck is... I

46:33

know. I have a peck. Yeah.

46:35

Depends if there's tongue, I guess.

46:36

And let's not, you know what, let's

46:39

not stay on this topic any longer. Bringing

46:44

a week's worth of lunch in one giant

46:46

Tupperware and storing it in the communal

46:49

work fridge. Criminal or minimal?

46:52

Oh, minimal. Great. Great

46:54

solution.

46:55

Yeah. It

46:57

depends a bit on how much storage is there,

46:59

obviously. Like if other people can't fit their stuff

47:02

in the freezer, that's an issue. Yeah.

47:05

How big is the Tupperware? Yeah. You've

47:07

got to be... Think of your colleagues. But if there's other room in there,

47:09

it's fine. I could not eat the same lunch for five days

47:11

in a row. That's just me. Sure.

47:15

A lot. Yeah, not for everyone. Yeah.

47:17

Absolutely. But it's productive. I

47:20

used to date a guy who would go to Costco and get a chicken

47:22

pot pie on Sunday and he would eat it for

47:24

dinner every night. He would eat a slice of

47:26

the chicken pot pie. Oh. So

47:28

the week was done and the chicken pot pie was gone. And

47:31

I was like, oh, come

47:33

on.

47:35

I

47:38

respect it in a way. Yep. I

47:41

mean, it's not for everyone. I mean, you've got people that don't mind eating

47:43

the same thing again and again and people that just

47:45

don't like that. Yeah. It's cost effective,

47:47

saves money, efficient. Yeah. But

47:50

if it works for them, great. I mean, how did you find

47:53

it? Did you get a little slice of

47:55

chicken as well?

47:56

No, I would have it one day

47:58

and then the next I'd be like, no, I'm not. doing my own

48:00

thing. But I will say he now owns

48:02

a home and I do

48:03

not. Wow.

48:06

Now we speak to him. We are. He's a frugal

48:08

blue, as we say. That's right. All right.

48:10

And then maybe this will end on and

48:13

it ties back to an episode we had a few weeks

48:15

ago that was bagels centered around

48:17

bagels. This person, Arman

48:19

has written in criminal and minimal. We

48:21

take our golden doodle Maisie to a local

48:24

bagel shop regularly. And one of the ladies

48:26

working the bakery very kindly gives us a

48:28

fresh plain bagel for free to give

48:30

the dog. This begs the question,

48:33

is it criminal or minimal to keep the bagel

48:35

for ourselves instead of feeding it to Maisie?

48:38

It's a gifting question, isn't it? Oh my God.

48:40

No, we circle back with you. We have. Oh,

48:44

I mean. But now a dog's involved

48:47

who can't speak up for themselves. I also

48:49

think like, wouldn't they want to see

48:51

the dog? Is the dog there when the bagel is being

48:53

given? They probably want to see the bagel going to

48:55

the dog. It's like the doing it. I think

48:57

criminal. Okay. Yeah. I think if that person

49:00

is intending that bagel for that dog, else

49:03

you're just sort of stealing from this bakery, essentially,

49:06

if it's, if you're taking it for yourself and not paying

49:08

for it. Yeah. Criminal. 100%

49:11

selling to jail.

49:12

I also, should

49:13

you be sending the dog to eating

49:16

bagels? Yeah. They mean to be eating bagels. No,

49:19

they're not. I don't think even humans are meant to be

49:21

eating bagels. I eat a bagel and I'm

49:23

stopped up for a week. Like,

49:26

I don't think that's right. That's a lot of dense

49:28

carbohydrates to give to a little puppy. Wow.

49:30

I never thought of that. Yeah. Agree. Yes.

49:32

I mean, essentially, you should probably tell the person it's

49:35

not healthy for the dog. So thank

49:37

you, but no to the bagel. Yeah.

49:39

I think that needs to be the conversation. Although

49:41

maybe. Okay. Yeah. I hear that.

49:44

Maybe they're just like giving it a little bite because of

49:46

its digestive inability to digest

49:48

human food and then eating it. Maybe that's what they. And

49:51

maybe that's okay. Yeah, I think that's okay. It's

49:53

hard making decisions, isn't it? On these little bits

49:55

of information. Exactly. I'll be happy. I've

49:58

never caught quite a hard decision. We

50:00

send our listeners into a weekly spiral

50:02

of, because we don't really answer any questions.

50:05

No, they're great though. Yeah, yeah. They're

50:07

pretty fun.

50:08

But we also say that expect

50:12

inconsistencies, because we'll say something

50:14

like this one week, and then the next week we'll be

50:16

like, it's important for every dog to get a bagel

50:18

once a week. You know what I mean? It's

50:21

hard to maintain. David,

50:25

thank you so, so much for joining us today.

50:28

I have been a fan of Tickle for

50:30

a long time, and my husband Alex is too.

50:32

He was so stoked you're coming on. Thank you

50:34

for being

50:34

here. Oh, thanks for having me. I love

50:36

pity crimes, and you've

50:39

expanded my mind today, both of you. So

50:41

thank you for that. It's been an experience. That's all we ask for.

50:44

Yeah, this has been such a trip. I am loving

50:47

the docs that you have. They,

50:49

similar to this show, just they make you think about

50:51

so many different things when it comes to humanity. And

50:54

that's our goal with this. It's lighthearted. We're

50:56

not going to people's houses like you do, like I said,

50:58

and, but it helps

51:01

you have perspective from some other walk of

51:03

life that you talk to. Yeah, it's great. It's really good. I

51:05

support it. Oh, well, thank you. We support

51:07

you. Well, until next week, everyone.

51:11

Hey, baby.