0:00

Support for Pivot comes

0:02

from ServiceNow. Today, it

0:04

seems every business is influenced by the uncertainty

0:06

in the world. It seeps into every discussion,

0:09

it forces tough choices for what to do next.

0:11

Should you drive efficiency or should you drive

0:13

growth? But what if instead of choosing,

0:16

you could just say yes to both? With

0:18

the intelligent platform for digital business from ServiceNow,

0:21

you can. You can say yes to unifying your

0:23

existing systems and yes to accelerating

0:25

growth. Visit ServiceNow.com

0:28

to see how they can help you put yes

0:29

to work. The world

0:32

works with ServiceNow.

0:37

Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's

0:39

Smart Money Podcast. NerdWallet's

0:42

experts make it fun to learn about money by answering

0:44

your real-world money questions in under 30 minutes.

0:47

Get smart about safe investments, credit

0:49

scores, tax bills, pro tips for savings,

0:52

and more. You can listen to NerdWallet's

0:54

Smart Money Podcast on your favorite app.

1:00

Hi

1:02

everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine

1:05

and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara

1:07

Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Hey

1:09

Scott, I just want to tell you, thank you for defending

1:12

me when Elon Musk said, I

1:14

sound like a dog whistle. I just want to say thank you.

1:16

You were very manly of you to do that. Well, can

1:19

we talk, so just so everyone knows. I don't think

1:21

we've talked about that yet. Yeah, Cara

1:23

and I have not talked about it, nor are we coordinating our

1:25

comments here, but essentially Elon Musk

1:29

said that you had become so shrill

1:31

that only dogs could hear you now. Yeah.

1:35

And so let's just break that down. And

1:38

by the way, I'd like to say, and I'm not a big fan of

1:40

saying, he got ratioed, but he

1:43

did get ratioed.

1:44

A lot of people felt that that was out of

1:46

line and came to your defense. But the

1:49

term shrill, first off, let's

1:51

give him the benefit of the doubt. And let's say that it's not a sexist

1:53

term. I mean, shrill is- But

1:56

it is, but okay, go ahead. It is, but it basically

1:58

refers to a loud. that is so shocking

2:01

and uncomfortable that you just want to get away from it,

2:03

right? And it

2:05

is usually associated or used to describe

2:08

someone, quite frankly, being a bitch,

2:10

right? It's-

2:11

Yeah, he might've gone to bitch right away. It

2:13

is a misogynistic term, but let's give him the benefit

2:16

of the doubt and just say that it's

2:18

a saying or a noise or something that is

2:20

inappropriate and makes everyone uncomfortable

2:22

and is unnecessary and adds no value. So

2:25

let's talk about Shrill.

2:27

He hates humanity. That's what

2:29

he said about George Soros.

2:33

Hey, pedo guy calls

2:35

an innocent man a pedophile,

2:37

right? There's

2:39

more to this story than may

2:42

have been published talking

2:45

about assuming that there was some

2:47

sort of gay love affair lover,

2:50

or

2:51

talking about

2:53

saying that we shouldn't assume

2:55

that this person is a white supremacist

2:57

defending a white supremacist. Elon

3:00

Musk is literally the most shrill person in the world

3:02

right now.

3:02

He is indeed. And so I

3:05

find it just incredibly toned

3:07

out. Of course, everything he does, everything he does is about himself.

3:10

Every insult he makes is about himself. It's

3:12

really, it was weird. It was weird and- Where

3:14

did it come from? I, oh,

3:17

cause we did a whole on show with Ryan

3:19

Mack and Zoe Shiffer, two excellent

3:21

reporters, New York Times and Platformer on

3:24

things that were going on. And that's, we were

3:26

just noting, and some dumb

3:29

ass who, I

3:30

think, who tweeted something

3:32

like, well, they didn't realize that Arab Spring

3:34

didn't work. And literally we had a long discussion about

3:37

it, that it didn't work and how social

3:39

media companies took credit. And then Elon

3:41

was responding to that. This guy who hadn't

3:43

obviously listened to the podcast cause we said

3:45

exactly what he said we didn't say. And

3:48

that was where it came. He always does things in

3:50

sub tweets. He always sub tweets things. Just

3:53

someone says something terrible, either

3:55

racist or misogynist. And he always

3:57

goes, absolutely, or facts.

3:59

or something like that. So he sub tweets things

4:02

most of the time. So that's where, it was weird.

4:04

And, you know, it's part of his little gang

4:07

of, I call them professional adult toddlers,

4:09

but, you know,

4:10

something like that. Well, let me take this, and

4:12

I promise this does relate to this. I was at the Western

4:15

Hotel in Seattle and

4:17

they wouldn't let us up and they said, there's a fire

4:19

alarm has gone off, sprinklers have gone off on like

4:21

the 18th floor. And I go, shit. I'm

4:23

like, you know. Yikes. These

4:26

eight fire people show up.

4:28

I mean, these people are total badasses. First

4:30

of all, they're all in just amazing

4:33

shape. All physical specimens, seven guys,

4:35

one woman, they walk in and they immediately dive

4:37

into the elevator and go up to the floor. They

4:40

don't

4:40

even like, that's their job. They're

4:42

like, we're here to protect people. And

4:45

they like that. You know, I've been thinking a lot about masculinity.

4:48

I think one it's self-reliance, being

4:50

sure that you're strong, mentally fit, emotionally fit such

4:52

that you can,

4:54

most importantly, take care of other people. There's

4:56

nothing less manly than

4:58

using your 125 million followers

5:02

and sycophantic following to

5:04

bully and harm people. That

5:07

is the exact opposite

5:10

of masculinity. It's literally

5:12

like, if you wanted to raise

5:14

boys who did

5:16

not turn into men, you

5:19

know, follow that Twitter feed. That

5:21

is not what we do. Yeah,

5:24

exactly. I mean, it's fine. I think I had

5:26

a good answer in the thread. Finally, I said,

5:28

you know, Scott, you know how he did

5:30

the whole thing that AOC was flirting with him. So

5:32

I said, Elon, stop flirting with me.

5:34

I'm a lesbian and I have enough children. I felt that

5:36

took care of it. I feel like that took care of it. So

5:39

I'm still a lesbian and have too many children. I haven't

5:41

focused. You said AOC. Anyway, it's just reduced. Mine

5:44

is wife. It actually leads us into

5:46

today's discussion because we

5:48

have, among other things, our friend of Pivot is

5:50

chastined Buddha judge about coming

5:53

of age as a gay teen in the Midwest and continuing

5:55

challenges to LGBTQ life in America,

5:57

including online, especially online.

5:59

But we've got a lot of other things to talk about today. Disney

6:02

isn't pulling any punches against Ron DeSantis.

6:05

And it has also some troubles going

6:07

on around its linear TV

6:10

business. We'll talk about the company's latest

6:13

million dollar blow. Also, Apple's getting ready

6:15

to launch its headset. But its AI efforts are

6:17

nowhere to be seen, or maybe we don't see them. And

6:20

we'll see where it goes. But first, the debt ceiling

6:22

cliff is getting closer. Republicans

6:25

don't seem to be backing down. President

6:27

Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy plan

6:29

to meet on Monday afternoon as we record this. Well,

6:32

on Sunday, Biden called the House Republicans move

6:34

from their extreme positions, called them unacceptable.

6:36

Biden is considering invoking the 14th Amendment, which

6:38

he said he didn't want to do, which includes the phrase

6:40

validity of the public debt authorized by a law

6:43

should not be questioned. Legal scholars have argued

6:45

the line could apply to the debt limit, making it unconstitutional

6:47

for the US to fail to make its payments. Republicans

6:50

oppose the idea. There's probably a court battle.

6:52

I can't believe they're going this far. What do you

6:54

think about

6:55

that? I think we're so used to them playing chicken

6:57

with each other and then not doing it, that

7:00

we and the markets don't take it very seriously.

7:02

Sure, yeah. And it's as

7:05

stupid and as partisan as

7:07

these parties can be sometimes.

7:09

There's also a healthy dose of cowardice. And

7:12

I don't think they want to,

7:13

I don't think any, I think they're going to go right

7:15

up to the line and then they're going

7:17

to go, okay, do we really want to see what happens here?

7:19

But then what? How are they going to back

7:22

down? They're sort of putting themselves, I mean, especially

7:24

the Republicans are really, he's

7:27

putting himself out there.

7:28

Yeah, but I think he

7:30

gave up so much and he's so not

7:33

owned, but

7:34

the crazies have really

7:36

made themselves heard.

7:38

And so he has to at a

7:40

minimum show up. He

7:42

has to pretend that he's, regardless,

7:45

I wouldn't be surprised, Kara, if he and

7:48

the president has sort of winked at each other and said,

7:50

we'll get this done. But

7:54

I need to be a certain amount of crazy for

7:56

a while here. This

7:59

would be...

7:59

terrible for all of them. I mean,

8:03

no one would come out of this as a principled

8:05

person when all of a sudden,

8:08

you know, everyone from... So you're still

8:10

betting on a situation settling. I just

8:12

don't think we're that stupid. I

8:15

mean, this would be a murder-suicide. Maybe.

8:18

Are they not that stupid? Maybe.

8:22

I don't think Biden is, but I don't think he's going to give.

8:24

I think he doesn't have a lot of... I think he'll

8:26

do the 14th and then see where it lands.

8:29

But you can't play cute with the financial markets,

8:31

especially in this, with the banks situation

8:34

and coming out of COVID. It seems ridiculous.

8:36

And of course, they never did it with... Trump is hoping

8:38

for it. Oh,

8:39

yeah. Well, Trump is an enemy of the

8:41

state. And everyone who has a vested

8:43

interest in the decline of America is hoping

8:45

this happens. It takes our eye off the

8:47

ball. It creates real risks.

8:50

I mean, you know,

8:51

people are... Our vendors, our military

8:54

suppliers are... Yeah. I think the

8:56

first is military. Second one is social security.

8:58

The next day, June 1st, is military and veterans. I'd

9:00

be more scared of our seniors. Citizens.

9:03

I know. Well, that's the second day of that. So

9:05

it starts to get... It moves very fast. Anyway,

9:08

we'll see. Speaking of paying up,

9:10

Meta is setting new records, not in the way it wants. European

9:13

privacy regulators find the company. $1.3 billion

9:16

for transferring EU user data to the

9:18

US. That's the highest amount any company has been fined

9:21

for reaching GDPR, the EU's general

9:23

data protection regulation. The EU body

9:25

that oversees Meta's operations in the EU told

9:27

it to stop transferring personal data to the US within

9:29

five months. I think Meta

9:32

says it's working

9:32

on it, I guess. Meta plans to appeal the

9:35

decision, obviously. You know, it's

9:37

interesting. We're focused

9:39

on the Chinese and Russians, but Europe

9:42

is looking at the whole picture. And they also

9:45

don't want it here in this country. They made their rules

9:47

and they should

9:49

stick to them. But again, the algebra deterrence

9:51

doesn't work here. $1.3 billion is what the ZAC will lose this

9:55

month on the

9:57

Metaverse. And you know how there's

9:59

a... the legislation, there's a law

10:01

that if you're caught selling drugs within

10:03

a couple hundred yards of the school, they

10:05

add on another 10 years to your conviction or some

10:08

such. Yeah. I think a

10:10

very effective legislation would be that any

10:12

fine that comes down from

10:14

a, you know, a legitimate regulatory

10:17

body has

10:18

a zero added to it. Because the problem

10:20

is the economists and the folks at

10:22

META have said it's worth it to break

10:24

the law because they'll appeal this,

10:27

they'll hold it up,

10:28

and the ability to abuse data, let

10:31

data run freely so they can monetize

10:33

it to a greater extent, it's worth far more than $1.3 billion

10:36

every once in a while.

10:37

Yeah, that's true. I agree. So I call them parking

10:39

tickets. That's what it is. We just interviewed

10:42

Senator Bennett and Senator Warner about where

10:44

they go with this restrict act and if it applies to

10:46

everybody. And if there's real

10:49

stomach after this debt ceiling thing to

10:51

do any kind of tech legislation, you

10:53

know, they were saying it's a productive Senate. Maybe

10:56

they can get something passed that doesn't

10:58

rely on Europe to

11:00

give parking tickets to our companies, that

11:03

we can do some real stuff, although they're going to

11:05

go into a buzzsaw of Facebook and other

11:08

lobbying. But we'll see. Maybe the

11:10

AI stuff has some energy to

11:13

it for our legislators and maybe they'll consider

11:15

privacy legislation, probably not. Speaking

11:19

of privacy, something that became un-private, Jeffrey

11:21

Epstein reportedly attempted to blackmail Bill Gates

11:23

over an affair as the two tried to launch

11:26

a charitable venture. I think mostly Jeffrey Epstein

11:28

was doing it, was attempting. He

11:30

met with Gates several times beginning in 2011,

11:32

an attempt to bring Gates in on as a primary investor

11:35

in a deal with J.P. Morgan. This is all

11:37

out of whole cloth that Epstein did this. I don't think Gates

11:39

was ever engaged in any way. He

11:42

also knew about an affair between Gates and a Russian

11:44

woman. He met playing bridge. Epstein paid

11:46

for the woman to attend programming boot camp. And after

11:49

the J.P. Morgan thing didn't work out, as

11:52

many things that Epstein did didn't work out.

11:54

He emailed Gates, asked me to pay back for the cost

11:56

of the programming camp, which seems like

11:58

I could pay for the cost of the programming.

11:59

I mean, camp and said

12:02

the phrasing of the letter was blackmail,

12:05

avail the tempted blackmail, gates never paid.

12:08

This is just sad. I don't know what else to say.

12:10

It's a big story in the Wall Street Journal, but it's super

12:12

sad.

12:12

Well, I mean, you got to give it to Gates. It's not

12:14

easy to get laid at a bridge tournament. I mean,

12:19

that's pretty impressive. And

12:21

it's great cover. You know, Melinda goes, where are you

12:23

going, Bill? Bridge tournament. Oh, no problem. Bridge.

12:25

Oh, good. Yeah, that'll work. That'll

12:27

work for me. Yeah, but the first thing

12:30

I the first thing I thought of, I can't I

12:32

just can't help it. I tell you, whenever I

12:34

get I love Q&A. By the way, you didn't

12:36

ask me about my summit at sea experience this weekend.

12:38

Oh, I forgot. Anyways, but

12:41

I was like in Q&A, which is my favorite part

12:43

to throw everyone off their game. And I'll say

12:46

in a totally unrelated question,

12:48

someone will say, what's future of AI? And I'll say, you know,

12:50

Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself. And I'll

12:52

go on to the next.

12:53

Oh, I know you say that. I had three emails from

12:55

people to text today from people. Yeah.

12:58

You know, my second go to is that freaks everybody

13:00

out.

13:01

Relax this road and maintain eye contact.

13:04

That's good,

13:07

because there's a delayed pause. And

13:09

I wonder if anything happened at summit at sea

13:12

that will be blackmailed for. I

13:14

saw so many famous people using eyedroppers

13:17

and it wasn't because their eyes were hurting. We'll

13:20

get to your blackmail situation in a minute. Epstein

13:22

and Gates. I can't help it. Don't

13:25

you wonder if this guy really committed suicide

13:28

when you start? If you're if you're

13:30

threatening.

13:31

I don't think Bill Gates killed him. I'm not

13:33

suggesting Bill Gates killed him. I'm suggesting if

13:35

you have an individual who is willing

13:37

to try and blackmail the wealthiest

13:40

people in the world, is there

13:42

a good chance you're going to end up dead? It does

13:44

feel like a plot of scandal or like

13:47

law and order, doesn't it? The other question I

13:49

had was who went on background to lead

13:51

this? Well,

13:53

Gates, the Gates people commented on it, too. Like

13:55

they kind of I think it was out there. There

13:58

were all these, you know, he's he's pulled.

13:59

into it because he flew on his plane at one point,

14:02

which is like, why is the richest man flying

14:04

on someone's plane? And he was down on that island.

14:07

And I think it's probably

14:09

a little, and he had dinner with him quite a bit. It

14:11

looks like he was hanging out with him for

14:13

like a brick. But I

14:16

think that doesn't implicate him anything. I think this is exactly

14:18

what it was, is he had an affair with someone and

14:21

this guy

14:23

took advantage of it. He probably has videos

14:25

of lots of people doing much worse things, is what

14:27

I'm assuming.

14:27

I thought, I mean, I'm

14:29

just fascinated. I mean, first off, look,

14:32

it's gossip, it's titillating because it's

14:34

Bill Gates, but I don't think it's

14:36

relevant. The thing that struck me about it was

14:39

how well the Gates Foundation handled the communication.

14:41

They

14:41

were very straightforward. Well, it was Gates

14:44

as people. Yeah, I don't know if it's the Gates Foundation. I don't know if

14:46

it's the Gates Foundation. The Gates people. They just said,

14:48

this was based on a previously disclosed

14:51

relationship that predates. We

14:54

didn't, you know, we did not

14:57

engage in this. They were honest

15:00

and they were just, this is what it is. We're not

15:02

going to, we're not, I thought they were very good at it.

15:04

He got roped in by this guy named, who

15:07

I've spoken to once or twice, Boris Nikolik, who

15:09

was his science advisor. It sounds like he was, and

15:11

he roped him in and somehow, you know,

15:14

I think what happens is all these rich people

15:16

get in these like,

15:17

TEDs and accept all the stuff they do,

15:20

all the big level conferences, the private

15:22

conferences, and they're all like, how should we

15:24

do this? How should we do that? And then they don't differentiate

15:27

and who's a loser and who's a con

15:30

artist. And there's all kinds of that going

15:32

on that, how can we give better? How can we, and,

15:35

you know, I just, I don't

15:38

feel sorry for Gates, but I mean, he definitely

15:40

sort of lives this isolated life and

15:43

probably doesn't know who's, you never

15:45

know who's a scammer near you if you're that

15:47

rich, I think. And, and it's

15:49

sad. And, you know, a lot of times I would leave

15:52

these people like with their hangers on

15:54

or there's always hangers on or every, Elon

15:56

has a pack, Gates has a pack,

15:58

they all have a pack. And I thought,

15:59

I can leave here quietly by myself.

16:02

And these people are constantly moving on

16:04

planes and they're little, you

16:06

know, it's a lot like succession. They're like trapped

16:08

in this weird world. And there's

16:11

always an Epstein there to fuck with

16:13

you. And the ones that do the bad things,

16:15

the really bad things, I think probably, he

16:18

crossed someone for sure. This guy crossed

16:20

someone. I'm not sure who it is. But

16:23

I'd recommend the Wall Street Journal series on this

16:25

and all the different people this guy dragged into his

16:27

universe. You know, very

16:29

prominent

16:29

people, Noam Chomsky, a bunch

16:32

of people, a bunch of big

16:34

name educational people looking for money. So

16:37

here we are. This is a life of the rich and

16:40

famous. It's sad,

16:41

really. Yeah, it's weird and it's titillating.

16:43

I mean, you know, Prince Andrew and like

16:46

I don't, I

16:48

don't understand. The whole

16:51

thing is this sort of you read

16:53

about all of it and you want to shower.

16:55

You do. Speaking of showering, how did you do

16:57

a summit at sea? Very briefly, we've got to get to our big story.

16:59

I thought I really enjoyed it. They've curated

17:02

a good group of people. It's a lot of young people.

17:04

About half of them were in social,

17:07

were for social media agencies. They're now transitioning

17:09

to be executive coaches. So I hope we produce

17:11

more executives that need coaching. But,

17:14

or they're in vertical farming. It's pretty, it's

17:16

pretty,

17:17

it's a lot of progresses, but the vibe

17:20

on the boat was really nice. People are really friendly.

17:23

So how many days? It's basically

17:26

three, it was three nights, but

17:28

it's a nice, it really, well,

17:30

especially retail is curating a voice

17:33

around products. This is curating a voice around people

17:35

and they're all these very intentional,

17:37

thoughtful, generous, nice people.

17:40

People would come up to you in generally like, a

17:42

lot of hugging. At first

17:44

it's a Buddha, at first it's.

17:46

Well, that's the end of that for me. They're not gonna

17:48

invite me. You know what, it's usually outputting for me, but after a while

17:50

it's kind of nice. Anyway. No, there's

17:52

no hugging. Really nice mix of people,

17:55

mix of age groups and demographics

17:57

and an appreciation for content. I was

17:59

actually.

17:59

I was surprised at the upside. They did a nice job. Good,

18:02

you enjoyed it. One of my videos in my,

18:04

I talk about scarcity in my presentation. I found

18:06

this amazing video. This guy put out a box

18:09

of snacks and a bunch of monkeys, one goes over and grabs

18:11

it. And then they all dive in. Like as

18:13

you would imagine monkeys would do

18:15

with nachos. And it's this really compelling TikTok

18:17

I found. And I got

18:19

offered mushroom chocolates on the first night

18:22

three times. And on the third time I said yes, and I went

18:24

back to my room and I watched that video 80 times

18:26

and it was amazing. It was

18:28

amazing.

18:29

Someone gave me mushroom chocolates. They're sitting

18:32

in a drawer. I don't know what to do. You should take them or you

18:34

should bring them to my house the next time you stay

18:36

there and just leave them. I feel like I have children,

18:38

something bad would happen. I worry about that too

18:40

with the edible silk like candy.

18:43

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you had a part. We need to go

18:45

on a cruise. You and I, I'm telling you, we would big

18:48

bank and we'd have a good time. And

18:50

it wouldn't fall over probably not, probably

18:53

not. Anyway, let's go to our first

18:55

big story.

18:56

For Ron DeSantis, it's a small economy after all. Haha,

19:02

that's not my joke. That's Evan. Last

19:05

week, Disney announced that it was canceling plans to

19:07

build a billion dollar office complex in Orlando.

19:09

Disney's plan would have moved 2000 jobs from California

19:11

to Florida. The company cited new leadership

19:14

in changing business conditions for this decision.

19:16

Like it's more like fuck you Ron. A hundred percent.

19:18

But another explanation. Let's go to a clip of professor Scott

19:21

Galloway who made this prediction a month

19:23

ago.

19:23

And what Bob Iger's going to do,

19:27

or why would that Disney's going to do, is they will leak

19:29

to the press that we're planning

19:31

this new amusement park. And they'll

19:33

leak that, oh, we were contemplating

19:35

launching it as an adjunct or in Florida

19:38

and we're now considering different locations.

19:41

And the media will go crazy with this that

19:43

Florida, this governor who is fighting

19:45

a cultural war to try and get attention from

19:47

the far right is now hurting

19:49

our economy and our prospects for

19:52

growth.

19:53

Yep, he did it. That's what happened. You

19:55

know, there's also business conditions have changed. First

19:59

of all, they've got some.

19:59

financial issues at Disney, including in linear

20:02

television, which we'll talk about in a minute. So

20:04

it saves them money. A lot of the Disney's California

20:06

employees, the Imagineering Unit, didn't want to move

20:08

to Florida for lots of good reasons. And

20:10

also, Ron DeSantis is supposed to announce his presidential

20:13

campaign this week, so a kick in the

20:15

teeth. I will talk about the cuts in a minute,

20:17

but what do you think about this? Disney's being quite

20:19

aggressive, and it's good for them financially to do

20:21

so.

20:22

The two best things that have happened for Bob Iger

20:25

are one, Ron DeSantis. I

20:27

personally think it's highly unlikely. I think they were gonna

20:29

cancel this anyways.

20:31

They need to cut costs. New

20:34

projects are just probably, everything

20:36

is on the back burner right now. And

20:39

the second best thing is the Writers Guild of America,

20:42

who's 11,000 people, the small union, has

20:46

managed to figure out a way to create a unilateral

20:49

pause on spending across an industry

20:51

that was spending too much. And

20:53

I just find it hilarious that

20:56

Governor DeSantis didn't do the game

20:58

theory here. And then the Writers

21:00

Guild has basically said to the

21:02

studio heads,

21:04

I'm gonna drop off a dump truck

21:06

of money every day

21:08

until you end this strike. Let's negotiate.

21:11

And so it's like, okay, I'm sorry, what is my- By

21:13

the way, writers want us to have a writer on to yell

21:15

at you, but we'll do that. We'll have that happen. Of

21:17

the 11,000, I wrote a post on this. Of the 11,000 members

21:20

of the Writers Guild, I think 10,800 weighed in on Twitter, and

21:23

they were not very nice. None

21:26

of them were very nice.

21:27

I even, my person who's helped

21:29

me work on my book was like, Scott's an idiot.

21:31

No, but I thought they would have come

21:34

back with better tweets than Scott's

21:36

an idiot. I think they went right to it. Yeah,

21:38

right to idiot.

21:39

Just like Shirell, I

21:41

should have gone right to it. I'm like, yeah,

21:44

I'm like any evidence or argument or just that I'm

21:46

a horrible person. We will have

21:48

a writer on to argue with Scott. Yeah,

21:50

bring it. I think we need to, I think

21:52

we need to. Anyway, go ahead. So

21:55

this is good for Disney from a financial point of

21:57

view, and it also kicks Ron DeSantis,

21:59

right?

21:59

and the tiny little balls

22:02

he has. This is a twofer. Allegedly.

22:05

And they did this perfectly. They went on background,

22:08

pretended it had nothing to do with politics,

22:10

you know, it's unfriendly there. I

22:13

would bet there was somewhere between a 60 and 90% chance they

22:16

were gonna cancel this thing anyways. And

22:19

instead, they have given

22:21

DeSantis's Republican opponents

22:24

and the media an incredible talking point

22:27

that this guy doesn't understand business.

22:29

And, you

22:31

know, let's talk about their business challenges too. It

22:33

comes at a time, it sort of covers these up a little bit.

22:35

This is from Bill Cohen. The question that's becoming harder

22:38

answer, especially after Disney announced last week it lost

22:40

some 4 million streaming subscribers in his latest

22:42

quarter, but nonetheless managed to cut its streaming losses

22:44

to around 660 million from

22:48

more than 1 billion exceeding analysts expectations.

22:50

The stock still got pounded as

22:53

Warren Buffett said last weekend regarding Berkshire's

22:55

large and losing investment in Paramount global. The trouble

22:57

is there is quote, a bunch of companies who don't wanna quit

23:00

highly expensive, extremely expensive and

23:02

low margin streaming businesses. Ultimately the profitability

23:04

requires fewer competitors and higher

23:07

prices. So he's,

23:10

Iger's in a squeeze here. They

23:12

pulled over 50 shows from Hulu and Disney Plus.

23:14

Titles include Turner and Hooch, the 2021

23:16

show, not the movie, the Mighty Ducks

23:19

TV show, Willow just finished

23:21

airing in January. The move

23:23

will cost them of course in the short term, but

23:25

cost them a bit of money. They're also closing their Star

23:27

Wars hotel, which was very expensive. It

23:30

was $6,000 for a two nights day for a family of four,

23:32

big immersive experiences that didn't work. So

23:35

it's facing all kinds of, all

23:37

of them are facing these, cutting titles,

23:39

et cetera, et cetera. And getting

23:42

this stock price up, Iger's under

23:45

real pressure here. It was gonna

23:47

make ESPN available as a streaming channel.

23:50

He called the, Iger called the move inevitable.

23:53

They got,

23:54

speaking of kicked in the teeth

23:56

at least, are there linear stuff?

23:59

It's been subsidized. by profits from linear

24:01

TV, all this spending on streaming

24:03

and operating in from linear TV fell 35%

24:05

because of advertising. They

24:08

were very adamant that it would come back and they

24:10

were best positioned. I would tend to agree with them

24:12

on that. So it's really tough. He's

24:14

in a tough business situation as these transitions

24:17

are happening. They're

24:18

all incredibly challenged.

24:21

It's a perfect storm. You know,

24:23

you've seen, I mean,

24:25

first off, if you

24:27

want to be angry, be angry at TikTok. We

24:30

have this tsunami of human

24:32

capital that's come in and brought down the margins

24:34

across every industry. You

24:37

have anyone under the age of 30 is

24:39

not watching ad supported television.

24:42

You had Netflix figure out a way

24:44

similar to Amazon to convince the marketplace

24:47

to value growth over profits. So they

24:50

became kind of capital as a weapon

24:52

and everybody had no choice but to follow them.

24:55

So, you know, the net

24:57

result here

24:59

is that margins

25:01

at Comcast has gone

25:04

from 27% to 4% in the past

25:06

five years. Disney's have

25:08

gone from 16% to 4%. It's

25:11

like a Walmart. That's crazy. Paramount has

25:13

lost $511 million. Discovery last year, now granted they

25:15

shoved everything in the kitchen

25:18

sink into this, posted $7 billion

25:21

in losses. So it's the perfect

25:23

storm of bad things. And to a certain extent what Disney has

25:25

though is they have the parks

25:28

and the parks. Which has helped.

25:31

Parks exceeded. It was linear television because of the ad

25:33

sales. But and then they're moved to ESPN

25:37

as a streaming network. The

25:39

way that these companies have made money was two

25:41

things. It was advertising, but more than that,

25:43

it was affiliate fees.

25:45

And because when Time Warner

25:47

Cable was charging me $120 or the food networks 4, 5, and 6, they

25:52

would charge me $6 for ESPN.

25:55

And so they made just a shit ton of money on these affiliate

25:57

fees. And now that people are cutting the cord, they have to pay

25:59

for it.

25:59

decided, okay, we need to move to

26:02

streaming. But they're getting hit from all

26:05

sides here. Yeah, they're down at their five-year

26:07

low. It's crazy. It's

26:09

hard. They're not at their low low, but they

26:11

had a peak in mid-2021

26:14

or something. And

26:17

now they're moving down to lows. And that's just going

26:19

to... You're right, Disney is best positioned,

26:21

but there's definitely in a world of hurt right

26:23

now, which can't help Iger very much. And so this

26:26

DeSantis hand waving is fantastic

26:28

for him on every level. Oh, yeah. It

26:30

kills a project. He gets to be a good guy and kill

26:32

it again, two for... But what

26:35

people aren't talking about, they want to make a cartoon

26:37

of the CEOs paying them a bunch of money. And

26:40

that is a fair argument. When David

26:42

Zaslop pays himself a quarter of a billion dollars

26:45

and he's arguing with writers who aren't making

26:47

that much money, have at it. But here's

26:50

the thing, income inequality and CEO compensation

26:52

across every industry is out of control. That

26:54

is not unique to this industry.

26:57

TikTok is a new player that's sucking $10

26:59

billion out of the ecosystem. It is. I

27:02

don't think they've figured that out and they have to keep spending

27:04

on streaming. They really do. And

27:07

I'd survey my team all the time, the median

27:10

age, not the mean, the median age of my team

27:12

is 24. None of them have

27:14

cable TV. None. Yeah.

27:16

Louie watches. Louie sat down, came

27:19

back last night and he immediately

27:21

was looking at YouTube and streaming.

27:23

He just... That's a lot of YouTube. He

27:26

wasn't looking... He doesn't like TikTok, but YouTube for

27:28

sure and Reddit. 125

27:29

million people every

27:32

day log into YouTube, watch YouTube.

27:35

I mean, on a good day, a

27:37

network gets

27:40

three million people. MrBeast on

27:42

YouTube has three times as many subscribers

27:44

as Hulu and granted, apples to oranges,

27:47

one is paying, one is not. But

27:50

these folks are under the impression

27:52

that it's Johnny Carson and Angie Dickinson

27:55

and Tang

27:57

Ads. I mean, the world. It's like

27:59

you can... You can scream at progress,

28:02

but it's gonna ignore you. Exactly.

28:05

And I think streaming, I mean, they're all on, my

28:07

kids do use streaming, they just are on my service.

28:09

So it'll be interesting

28:10

to see. 100 million people use

28:12

someone else's Netflix password. Yeah,

28:14

yeah. Well, they're my, I have a family

28:16

to plan. In any case, like

28:19

we

28:19

have- You have Lucky's Netflix password. I

28:22

know what's going on here. No, I don't. Lucky tries

28:24

to use mine, I kicked her off. I kicked off, all

28:26

my friends' kids somehow get onto it

28:28

and I kicked them off. I kick a lot of people off.

28:32

In any case, Amanda was like, why am

28:34

I not able to use it? Cause someone else is using

28:36

it. And I was like, don't we just kick them off? I just kick them off. Anyway,

28:39

we'll see where it goes. But Bob Iger is definitely

28:41

in a jam economically right now. It

28:43

probably will rebound advertising in their best

28:45

position for that. But DeSantis

28:48

is providing a great heat shield for him in

28:50

terms of a lot of things and good for him for

28:52

using him for that. Cause he deserves it. And

28:54

we'll see how his presidential election

28:57

goes.

28:57

Certainly a lot of people

28:59

are attacking him in particular, but a lot

29:01

of Republicans are attacking Trump lately, which

29:03

is interesting. Anyway, we're gonna

29:05

quick break. When we come back, Apple is going all in

29:07

on a risky bet and we'll speak with a friend of Pivot

29:10

Chasten Buttigieg about gay life in

29:12

middle America. Ooh.

29:17

Support for this podcast comes from Slack.

29:20

Where are you listening to this podcast? Your

29:23

home, in transit, at your job? It's

29:25

nice to have the ability to connect to some of your

29:27

favorite content from anywhere. If

29:29

only work could be as simple. Wouldn't

29:31

it be nice for you and your team members to solve

29:34

problems from anywhere instead of going

29:36

through the hassle of finding 30 free minutes

29:38

on everyone's calendar? Well, with

29:40

Slack, you can easily connect with teammates

29:42

with simple to use tools to help work feel

29:45

less like work. Slack is a productivity

29:47

platform that connects all your team members

29:49

together instantly. It's built to help your

29:51

team with a host of features like

29:53

huddles for quick check-ins and clips for

29:55

recording and sharing video. Slack also

29:58

makes it easy to search and find the right information.

30:00

you need. You can even integrate the apps

30:02

you use in your normal workflow, like your calendar

30:05

or product management tools. So you

30:07

stay focused on the work that matters and get more

30:09

done. So check out Slack, because

30:11

it's built to make work simpler and more connected,

30:14

not to mention more pleasant. Learn

30:15

more at slack.com slash productivity.

30:20

Fox

30:24

Creative. This is advertiser

30:26

content from Chevrolet. Come

30:30

with me, let's take a drive. Sometimes

30:35

I like to just drive around. I'm a driver-arounder

30:37

type of person. A few years

30:39

ago, I wrote that I'd never buy

30:41

another car. In my view, owning a

30:43

car would soon be outdated, kind

30:45

of like owning a horse. I

30:48

always drive by gas stations now and I kind of wave. I'm

30:50

like, hi, see you later, suckers, kind

30:52

of stuff, when I go by gas stations. I

30:55

shouldn't do that, but I do. Look

30:57

at that, $4.69 a gallon. Come on.

31:00

Turns out Chevy's electric vehicles prove me wrong about

31:02

the future of driving. I got my Chevy

31:05

Bolt EV earlier this year and have

31:07

never looked back. Finally an affordable,

31:10

easy to use, inexpensive

31:12

electric vehicle. It's

31:14

so comfortable. Early electric cars were

31:17

designed like you're sitting in the inside

31:19

of a computer, which is why would I want to do that? Why

31:21

should you lose design and beauty

31:23

when you want to be very comfortable? With

31:26

more models on the way soon, Chevy will

31:28

make EVs for everyone, everywhere. Visit

31:31

chevrolet.com slash electric

31:33

to learn more. The other thing

31:35

I like about it is it's really quiet. I

31:38

sort of feel like I'm from the future. It's like,

31:40

mmm, that kind of thing.

31:49

Scott, we're back.

31:50

iPhone users can now ask Siri to open

31:52

a better AI app. ChatGPT

31:54

launched its official iOS app last week. It's already

31:57

rocketed to number two spot in the Apple App Store. That's

31:59

level two.

31:59

some users wondering where Apple's AI

32:02

efforts themselves are. The company has reportedly banned

32:04

the use of chat GPT internally. It's

32:06

hiring in the space. It listed 28 jobs

32:09

in generative AI this month. For now, the company

32:11

remains focused on upcoming launch of

32:13

its mixed reality headset, where its mind has been

32:16

thought to be called Reality Probe. Bloomberg reports

32:18

that Apple spent over a billion dollars per year

32:20

on the project a lot, very quietly compared to

32:22

Mark Zuckerberg, but he spent more actually.

32:25

But some top executives remain skeptical

32:27

of its promise. One former Apple marketing exec

32:29

said the headset

32:29

could be quote, one of the greatest tech flops of all

32:32

time. I would not take my advice from

32:34

a marketing exec necessarily, but I

32:36

tend to wait and see what Apple does because they tend

32:38

to do pretty good products. Tim

32:40

Cook has talked, sort of not been loud compared

32:43

to other executives on AI. He said

32:45

they're being deliberative and thoughtful and you certainly could

32:47

see how much AI could be inside of all

32:49

the Apple products you use. You

32:53

know, this week, the leaders of the G7 name is called

32:55

for AI regulation. We can't wait till we

32:57

see what they do about that. What do

32:59

you

32:59

think about Apple waiting? I think they always wait. I

33:03

think they always wait. And I don't

33:05

think they'll immediately go

33:07

on trends and have an AI app or

33:10

anything else. What do you think about this?

33:11

My colleague or former colleague at

33:13

NYU, Peter Golder is now at Dartmouth

33:16

and he's one of kind of the great minds or great scholars

33:18

around strategy.

33:20

And the premise of his scholarship

33:22

is the following, that it's always the second

33:24

mouse that gets the cheese. And

33:26

Apple, Apple is the perfect example of that.

33:29

Apple wasn't the first. Apple was not the

33:31

first computer maker in

33:33

object oriented computing.

33:35

They were not the first person in MP3 players.

33:38

They come in, they wait, they analyze stuff,

33:40

they let other people kind of fail, they take notes,

33:42

and then they come in with something much more consumer oriented

33:45

with better marketing. And

33:47

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up launching some

33:49

sort of

33:52

generative AI around design or

33:54

using it to massively upgrade Siri and announce

33:57

that Siri 2.0, similar to what Microsoft

33:59

has done with bar.

33:59

but they're thoughtful, they're deliberate,

34:02

and they know that their brand recaptures

34:04

a lot of ground really fast. And

34:09

rather than rush anything out, and by the way, Kara,

34:12

just to, maybe

34:14

I'll make the prediction again on Friday, I don't think they're

34:16

gonna launch their headset.

34:18

Really? I think the world has changed. I

34:21

think they've got it turd on their hands.

34:24

And- I don't know, I don't know. There's

34:26

gonna be a headset. So I think,

34:29

you know, the watch was- How do you know that? What has worked? Cause

34:32

there's gonna be, there's gonna be one. For

34:34

the military and porn, that's about it.

34:37

Maybe so, I don't know. I feel

34:39

like there's gonna be one. I don't have any question about

34:41

the direction. I think it's when it's gonna happen and

34:43

how much it's

34:43

gonna cost. Other than warmth and extending

34:47

the perceived notion of your cheekbones, which

34:49

communicates, your kids are less likely to have

34:51

infection, which makes you sexier, what do

34:54

people put on their face other than-

34:55

For entertainment. When I first

34:58

used a reality headset like this, like

35:00

it was Sony, it was a decade ago, and I

35:02

watched a movie, right? They were testing.

35:04

It was one of their experimental labs and

35:06

stuff. And I

35:08

have to say, I've never forgotten that experience.

35:11

It was a little nauseating, but I also,

35:13

I was in the movie and I felt like someone was behind

35:16

me and it was cool. It was, I

35:18

have not forgotten the experience. And so for

35:20

entertainment, for sure, obviously for porn,

35:24

I'm going to Crete. I'm not going to Crete, but I'm going

35:26

to Crete. Like that kind of stuff. You

35:28

could see it in some sort of entertainment

35:31

context for

35:32

a hundred percent sure. I had the exact same experience

35:35

the first time I wrote a segue. Wow,

35:38

isn't this amazing? This is gonna change-

35:40

I didn't have that experience. This is gonna change urban transportation.

35:42

It just, you

35:45

know, headsets do not work.

35:48

I'm sticking to it. I just think- All right,

35:50

we're gonna part. I think it does in a

35:52

prone situation. And again, I'll tell you another

35:54

place I used it. I was in Hong Kong

35:56

and I was on a roller coaster. And so they put

35:58

headsets on everyone.

35:59

really interesting. And did

36:02

the- I like a roller coaster myself. Was this before or after you

36:04

had a stroke in Hong Kong? I did not have a stroke.

36:06

This is why I was there. My son loves to go. Alex

36:08

loves amusement parks. He loves them, so

36:11

I always go and I get on the roller coaster with him, even

36:13

though I hate roller coasters. And so

36:15

in this case, we went to the regular

36:17

roller coasters, which always sort of made me feel

36:19

vaguely nauseous. I'm fine with them, but I don't

36:21

love them. This time they put on a headset.

36:24

And

36:25

I have to say, I was still on

36:27

the roller coaster, but wearing a headset,

36:30

and it made it look like I was splashing into the ocean

36:32

and all these beautiful visual images. And I have

36:34

to say, the enjoyment experience of this roller coaster

36:37

was fantastic using it.

36:40

I did want it at Universal with a headset, with a Spiderman

36:42

thing. Really cool.

36:45

Really enjoyed it. And so I just feel

36:47

like there's all kinds of applications. I don't know if people can walk

36:49

in around in headsets, but as an entertainment- just

36:52

the headset that they have for the headphones,

36:55

the Apple headphones, are superb.

36:56

And who thought that would

36:59

happen? I wear them every day. The companies

37:01

that had any chance or any shot of still doing

37:03

it, and by the way, we didn't mention this, and

37:06

I totally overlooked this in my post. Other

37:10

than TikTok, the thing that is really probably

37:13

hurt

37:14

ad-supported media or the cable

37:16

companies is video games.

37:19

And the video games guys

37:21

are absolutely the ones to potentially

37:23

figure out a headset, and they've given up on it. Or that's

37:25

my sense anyways, they've sort of given up on it. I don't

37:28

know. I have a feeling. All right, we're

37:30

going to wait and see. We're going to wait and see. And

37:33

again, I point to the Apple headset.

37:35

I think your prospects are-

37:37

I think the only reason you're slightly positive

37:39

on it is that thank

37:42

God you're finally out of your procreation era.

37:45

I can sit back. And just look

37:47

ridiculous. I'm not. Oh, this weekend,

37:49

Scott. And just look ridiculous. There were 43 children's

37:52

parties this weekend. I almost died by Sunday

37:55

night. A lot of them. I have to tell.

37:57

My 12-year-olds were in Kelowna. I was wearing Dior Draculac.

38:00

He had his first dance. Anyway,

38:04

I'm a dancer. That's nice. That's

38:06

very stylish. Louis has a cologne. He has one

38:08

made for him. He went to one of those perfumeries.

38:11

No,

38:11

he's not enduring the character building

38:13

rejection his father was at this age. Well,

38:16

there you go. Anyway, speaking

38:18

of someone who has kids, who also has young kids, and

38:21

who's doing gay parenting like

38:23

I am, let's bring in our friend of

38:25

Pivot.

38:31

Chasten Buttigieg is a former school

38:33

teacher who was catapulted into the public eye

38:35

in 2019, when his husband, Pete

38:38

Buttigieg, became the first openly gay

38:40

man to run for president. He's the author

38:42

of I Have Something to Tell You for Young

38:44

Adults, an adaptation of his earlier book

38:47

about coming of age as a young man in Northern

38:49

Michigan, which I interviewed him about. Welcome,

38:52

Chasten. How are you doing?

38:53

How are you doing? Thanks for having me. You

38:56

first published your memoir in 2020. The new

38:58

book is billed as a complete rewrite for

39:00

young adults focusing more on your younger

39:02

years. Talk about the new version of your

39:04

story, and then of course we'll get into things have changed

39:06

since 2020, gotten worse in many ways,

39:08

and especially around young people. Why

39:12

make this new version of your story?

39:14

Yeah. When I started two years ago, I was

39:16

just thinking about writing the book that I wanted to

39:18

hand my younger self, the book I wish I

39:20

could have read in eighth grade. The

39:23

political landscape was not what it is today. I

39:27

did not think that this book would be coming out in

39:29

a time where we're talking about book bands, especially

39:32

a backslide in LGBTQ rights. But what

39:34

I really just wanted to do was

39:36

write the book that I knew teachers

39:38

and parents could use, especially young people. Of

39:42

course, you're taking this

39:44

book on tour. Several states have been banning books,

39:46

as you said. What's the reception like? Because

39:49

this is a book that would presumably be banned.

39:52

The conversations I've been having across

39:54

the country so far have

39:56

been great. I sold out my hometown,

39:58

which was very humble.

39:59

675 people in northern Michigan

40:02

wanted to have that conversation. And

40:04

I can tell that people want to be on the right

40:06

side of history and people in the LGBTQ

40:09

community and their allies, you know, are feeling

40:11

a little helpless and wondering what they can do. And

40:14

you know, even if this book is just one little tool that helps,

40:17

that's great. But the reception has been phenomenal.

40:20

Now I'm getting ready to head down to Texas, Florida,

40:22

Missouri, and

40:23

Utah. So

40:26

we'll see. You know, we've sold out Florida,

40:28

so that's exciting. And I think that's because people,

40:32

one, need that space, want to feel like they belong, and

40:34

two, want to have that conversation.

40:36

And what are your thoughts on the bannings? Because

40:38

again, this is a book that presumably some

40:41

mom for liberty or whatever

40:43

against liberty would push against.

40:46

Oh yeah, because it features the existence of a

40:48

queer person. Yes, that's right. You know, I

40:50

taught, yeah, I taught eighth grade, you know, I'm

40:52

a dad, I wrote a completely age-appropriate book. I

40:55

think if it's banned, that's just politics. You

40:57

know, I, as you

40:59

can probably attest to, Scott and

41:02

Kara, we all read books featuring

41:04

mostly or only

41:05

straight people growing up for 13 years. Every

41:08

movie I watched, every book I read, featured

41:10

straight people, and I was not indoctrinated into being

41:12

straight. I think a lot of the conversations

41:15

around book banning and, you

41:17

know, parental rights and education is really just

41:19

a guise to,

41:21

you know, erase LGBTQ

41:23

people or at least scare teachers and parents

41:26

and families into, you know, not talking

41:28

about their existence. It's

41:30

very far removed from what I think most people

41:33

want elected officials to be focusing

41:35

on, but it's really easy for the other side right

41:37

now. You know, hate is so easy. This

41:40

divisive topic is so easy. You know,

41:43

they've even acknowledged that they threw everything at the wall.

41:45

They wanted to see what would stick

41:46

and what stuck was attacking LGBTQ people,

41:48

specifically young, vulnerable

41:51

trans kids. Yeah, that's the first spot.

41:54

So you're an educator. There's

41:56

so much controversy right now over... if

42:00

and when the topic of sexual

42:02

orientation is introduced under the auspices

42:04

of health, but in

42:06

an educational setting.

42:09

If, when,

42:11

when is it appropriate? To

42:14

what extent are

42:16

parents involved, if at all? What

42:18

are your thoughts? Because you're right at that kind of critical

42:21

age, right? Thirteen when kids start

42:23

exploring their sexuality, puberty. What

42:26

are your thoughts as an educator about how we thoughtfully

42:28

talk about these issues in a school setting?

42:32

One of the things I think is getting twisted in this

42:34

conversation is that educators

42:36

aren't able to have conversations

42:39

with students appropriately. I mean, educators

42:41

have always been revered as the educated

42:44

person in the room, right? And

42:46

so we have twisted this conversation

42:48

into thinking that, you know, teachers are indoctrinating

42:50

your students. You know, they're talking

42:53

about really inappropriate things, but nobody had a problem

42:55

with that. You know, we were coming up in school

42:57

and teachers were having those conversations. So

43:00

one, it kind of boggles my mind that we're

43:02

coming back to the conversation about

43:04

what teachers should and should not

43:06

be talking about because it

43:08

pertains to LGBTQ people. You know,

43:13

one of the things that I've always believed is that safety

43:16

comes first.

43:17

So outside of having conversations about development,

43:20

I think that

43:21

one of the things people have been really

43:23

scared about with the Don't Say Gay Bill and concerned

43:25

about teachers and students is, will

43:28

a student be outed to their parents? And

43:31

is it the responsibility of a school to out

43:33

a kid to a family who

43:35

might not be as accepting or

43:38

won't be as accepting? Will it put that kid

43:40

in danger?

43:41

I think across the board, you know, I

43:44

leave that to the

43:46

administrations and parents. I think parents

43:48

should be involved

43:50

in their kids' education.

43:52

That's another thing. You know,

43:55

people say that this is about parental rights. It's about

43:57

parental involvement. As a teacher, I remember what

43:59

it was like.

43:59

to only have one or two parents come to parent-teacher conferences.

44:02

So that conversation on when

44:04

is it appropriate and who should be involved, I think everyone

44:06

should be involved at the table. If a parent

44:08

is not ready for their kid to have a conversation, they

44:11

should totally come to the administration or come to the teacher

44:13

and have that conversation. But I think having

44:15

those conversations in good faith,

44:17

is it just about a

44:20

conversation about the existence of LGBTQ

44:23

people?

44:25

That to me is completely appropriate. So

44:28

when you're thinking about, in this book you write a lot

44:30

about the pressure to blend in, remain closeted, go along

44:32

with anti-gay messaging around you, I

44:35

understand that. I remember that. And

44:37

it's very fearful, and especially when your parents

44:39

are not, my dad died, but I

44:41

would say my mother was hostile to it for a very

44:43

long time. I can't believe today

44:45

this is happening again with this kind of thing,

44:47

because at the time it was so furtive and so damaging

44:50

emotionally, personally,

44:52

just in every single way. Do you

44:54

think it's going back? Because what it

44:56

was like was terrible, was terrible.

44:59

But do you feel like that? And what

45:02

do you wish you had known as a teen when you're

45:04

thinking about what's happening now?

45:07

Well, what I wish I would have known as a teen was

45:09

that it was okay to be myself. For a long

45:11

time I thought I was the only person, the only gay

45:13

person in the world. Then I had role models

45:16

in Ellen DeGeneres and

45:18

Jack on Will and Grace. That's

45:21

all I had. So yeah, Sean Mayes. So

45:24

I had very limited

45:26

visibility into

45:28

what it was like in a wider

45:31

queer world out there. But I

45:33

see two different things.

45:35

When I'm out here on Book Tour, when I'm talking to people

45:37

around the country, I

45:40

see so many good people committed

45:42

to the work who want to get it right, who

45:44

care deeply about either being a

45:46

good ally or protecting the LGBTQ

45:49

community.

45:50

And then I see in politics,

45:52

I do feel like it is backsliding.

45:54

And I do believe it got better. It was getting

45:56

better. When I grew up, I never thought I would be able to get

45:58

married. I never thought I'd be able to be a dad. Those

46:00

things are true for me now. So technically it did

46:02

get better. But I think because it was getting

46:05

better, now people are committed to making it worse.

46:07

The ideas of equality, the ideas

46:09

of acceptance, terrify some people on the right.

46:12

And I also have to say, I don't think every person

46:14

on the right believes it.

46:16

I think they're just going along with it because it works.

46:19

It's great for clicks. Great for cloud,

46:22

great for cash. It's just a great

46:24

fundraising opportunity and it's easier to

46:27

attack people and be hateful rather

46:29

than focus on getting something done on gun legislation,

46:32

right? And so I think it's

46:35

this sort of twisted movement

46:37

in their party to just focus on attacking

46:39

queer people because it's easy. But

46:42

I do believe in many places it is

46:44

getting worse and it will only get better

46:46

if more and more people are committed to making it

46:48

better.

46:49

You know, what gave you comfort?

46:52

Was it friends? Was it certain literary

46:55

works? Was it a confidential conversation

46:57

with a teacher? Like what,

47:00

if we were to say distinct to the politics,

47:03

how do we create an ecosystem or context

47:05

of comfort? What would you suggest?

47:08

To be honest, Scott, I didn't have any of

47:10

those things. And so one

47:13

of the things I always celebrate every pride is the fact

47:15

that I'm here. Because when

47:17

I was younger, I just really didn't think I would make

47:20

it. I didn't have any teachers I could

47:22

open up to, you know, when the bullying and the homophobia

47:24

is really bad, I didn't think I could go to the administration

47:27

because I thought they would hate me too. We

47:30

never had that conversation in my family. I didn't

47:32

really have any role models.

47:35

I got a scholarship my senior year of high school

47:37

to study abroad in Germany. It was not because I cared

47:39

so much about the German language or the culture. I just wanted

47:42

to get the hell out of Northern Michigan. And

47:45

that was my ticket out. And then I made friends. You

47:48

know, it was the first time I had a friend who told me it was okay

47:50

to be gay. And that gave me the confidence

47:52

to go home and bust down the closet door.

47:54

The thing I want people to know, especially parents,

47:56

is that I could have benefited from a 10

47:59

second conversation. with them. When

48:01

I was younger, if they sat me down and said, it's

48:03

okay to be yourself, whether you're

48:05

gay, straight, bi, trans, whoever you are, we

48:08

will love you unconditionally and you will always

48:10

have two parents who love you and a roof

48:12

over your head, we promise. Which does not

48:14

happen with a lot of parents, which does not. One

48:18

way people get that more

48:20

recently is through social media or years

48:23

ago AOL was one way, planned

48:25

it out, all kinds of stuff. But

48:27

also there's so much homophobia now. Twitter's

48:29

owner uses it to spread homophobic conspiracy

48:32

theories, for example, about Paul Pelosi.

48:34

It's full of, on the negative side, he

48:36

used to be quite a positive thing, social media, because

48:38

you could find people like you. A

48:40

lot of people talked about that. Did you use

48:42

that? Did you use social

48:44

media? And what do you suggest for kids

48:46

now? Because it's a mixed bag now. It's not

48:49

supportive and lots of... It's funny, I was

48:51

just talking to some young people and said,

48:53

when I studied abroad in Germany and I made those really good friends

48:56

from all over the country, it's the first time I

48:58

made friends who affirmed my identity.

49:00

I was telling them that our Facebook group

49:02

was the thing that gave me hope.

49:05

And these young people said Facebook wasn't around in 2006. It

49:08

made me feel really

49:10

old. But yeah, I certainly

49:12

remember as a young person logging online and being able

49:14

to chat with those friends and feeling like I had community,

49:17

I had connection. And now, yeah, you

49:19

know what it's like to open Twitter. I open Twitter, I just

49:21

get punched in the face with homophobia and hate and

49:23

the algorithms all messed up. You do, particularly.

49:25

I don't enjoy being on there because it's

49:27

just so messy. And

49:30

I worry about, you know, I'm an adult, I

49:33

can handle that. I

49:33

understand

49:35

why people are saying some of the things they are. But

49:37

I worry about young people logging on there and not being able

49:39

to discern between what's real, what's not, what's

49:41

about, what isn't, and

49:45

questioning their identity and their worth

49:47

and their humanity every day when they go on social

49:49

media. So that's something I'm very worried about.

49:53

Yeah, it's changed rather dress. It used to be quite supportive.

49:55

And now it's just full of really nasty stuff. You

49:57

had an approach. Let me quote you in your book.

49:59

about bullies, speaking of which, it's

50:02

always best to ask someone to explain their question or insult

50:04

when you sense it's meant to harm you. Bullies

50:06

often recoil when they have to explain their meanness,

50:09

just ask, what do you mean by that and give them

50:11

time to explain that usually they're weak or silly. Their

50:13

point is, who would you like to challenge

50:15

today, for example, as you travel around?

50:18

To ask them what they mean by that? Yeah. I

50:21

mean, there's so many people on the right

50:23

who are just behaving like children.

50:26

The thing that boggles my mind, not only

50:28

as a parent, but

50:31

as a former teacher, is the fact that I held

50:33

my students, and I think across the country, we hold eighth

50:35

graders to a higher standard of

50:37

decorum and ethics than we do our representatives.

50:42

The fact that they go out here with these wild,

50:44

disgusting accusations, just sweeping

50:47

accusations about all LGBTQ people,

50:49

I want them to answer for that, especially

50:52

people who get microphones put in front of their face every

50:54

day and aren't often challenged. I

50:56

don't want to repeat some of those accusations, but you

50:59

know what they are. I think

51:01

more people, especially in positions of power, should be

51:04

forced to explain why they're using those

51:06

words and give us some evidence.

51:09

Kids always said something weird

51:11

in the classroom. I always ask for the evidence. Where'd

51:13

you hear that? Where'd you read it? Where'd you

51:15

see it? It's just so easy for them to lie

51:18

right now. Some of these people

51:20

who have a grip on the Republican Party,

51:22

they're so detached from reality and

51:25

the things that people are focusing on. They really do remind

51:27

me of the worst kind of playground bullies.

51:30

Absolutely. Scott?

51:32

I like what you said about the importance of parents

51:34

just committing

51:37

or ensuring their kids know that they're loved no matter

51:39

what. Do you think that dads who

51:42

have sons at some point

51:45

need to expand

51:47

on that and say no matter what, regardless

51:50

of how you do in school, what

51:52

your sexual orientation is, do you think that

51:55

should be that explicit? Because I do think a lot

51:57

of families do say we love you no matter what,

51:59

but the kid doesn't

51:59

saying, man, not really.

52:03

Oh, that was me. That was me. My parents

52:05

were so loving and so giving and

52:07

the kindest people, but

52:09

we didn't talk about gay people.

52:11

So I assumed that that love was conditional, you

52:14

know, if they found out I was gay, then that would go

52:16

away. And so definitely the

52:18

conversation has to be about unconditional

52:21

love.

52:22

And when I was growing up in, you

52:24

know, rural Michigan, I thought,

52:26

you know, unless you're playing hockey or football,

52:29

you know, super athletic driving the pickup

52:31

truck, then you weren't a man,

52:34

you know, and I think those

52:37

conversations have to be explicit. I

52:39

want you to grow up to be who you are. I will

52:41

love you for who you are,

52:43

you know, whether you're

52:45

gay, straight, bi, trans, whatever, whether you're

52:48

academically gifted or you're athletically

52:50

gifted. I want you to know that it is safe

52:52

to be yourself and

52:54

I want you to grow up knowing that I will always

52:56

be here for you unconditionally because I

52:58

knew my parents were so loving, but

53:00

I did think that love was conditional. What if they found

53:03

out the big secret? What they hate me? Would I lose

53:05

everything?

53:06

You know, and I was that kid

53:08

questioning whether or not, you know, I should stick

53:10

around because I didn't want to embarrass them

53:13

and parents have to know

53:15

the power of their words and their actions. I

53:17

mean, not only parents, everybody. The

53:20

power in your words and your actions to make people

53:22

want to stick around. Yeah,

53:25

I think one of the things is they're still hurting

53:27

from losing so much over the many years

53:30

to gays and lesbians, you know, what I mean? Normal

53:33

like marriage and kids and everything else. But

53:35

your book is geared toward young LGBTQ

53:38

plus readers. What's straight

53:40

people? You want straight people to read it, right? About

53:43

because one of the things that surprises me and literally

53:45

happened the other day, I'm talking about a trans

53:47

issue and I was like, you know,

53:49

trans people are often kicked out of the house,

53:52

etc, etc. Particularly gay people

53:54

are. I certainly had my share of difficulty and

53:57

they were like,

53:58

really? Does that happen? happen? Like

54:00

it was, I literally was like,

54:02

where have you been? Like, do you ever,

54:05

like, do you know any trans people? Do you know?

54:07

It was sort of shocking.

54:10

I was, and it was like, it's 2023

54:12

and you haven't like understood this

54:15

at a very basic level. So you

54:17

want straight people presumably to read this because

54:20

sometimes I'm like, you're kidding me straight people,

54:22

like you're kidding me. A hundred

54:23

percent. I want parents to read this. I

54:25

hope it's helpful for teachers. You know,

54:27

I included some resources in the back of

54:29

the book for them.

54:31

And you're absolutely

54:33

right, especially about trans people.

54:35

Every time I have sat down and had a roundtable

54:38

with trans students

54:40

or just, you know, trans people

54:42

in general,

54:43

the room is never just full of happy stories.

54:46

It's never like, yeah, I'm trans and everything's great. Yeah.

54:48

Which is it. If

54:51

you are talking to people who don't know that, you know, it's,

54:54

it's alarming. The thing that I

54:56

want straight people especially to understand

54:58

is that

54:59

when you are presented with something new, at

55:02

least when I am presented with something new, first

55:04

thing you should do, first thing I always try to do, slow

55:07

down and listen and learn. And

55:10

right now, especially with trans issues, we

55:15

need straight people to understand

55:17

that like every major

55:19

medical organization in this country approves

55:23

of gender affirming care, right? Psychiatric

55:27

organizations, educational organizations, you have all these people

55:29

talking about the benefits and the life saving

55:31

benefits of affirming trans people. And

55:34

then you have a political party that's, you know, raging

55:37

more against them rather than meeting trans people where they're

55:39

at rather than sitting down with these organizations, medical

55:41

organizations, mental health organizations.

55:44

They don't care. They want them

55:45

to be dead. They want them to be dead. That's

55:47

the only explanation.

55:49

And that's, you know, when we're saying what do you mean by that? Explain

55:52

that. That's what I want them to boil it down to.

55:54

Because if you don't believe that, then show

55:56

me how you're showing up for trans people. If you truly

55:58

believe that they are worthy of dignity.

56:00

and life, then show

56:02

me how you're making sure that they know that they

56:04

can exist freely and openly and safely

56:07

in

56:07

America today. So my book,

56:10

yes, is, you know, I hope, hopefully helpful

56:12

for young people, any person part

56:15

of our ever growing acronym, you know,

56:17

as long as you're not straight, I feel like everyone's just getting

56:20

othered and the acronym will just keep growing

56:22

and hopefully it's helpful for young people,

56:24

but I really hope it's helpful for their parents and

56:26

the people that love them.

56:27

Yeah, I just hit them on the head with the book itself.

56:29

But Scott, last question, and then I have one final one.

56:32

I'm curious if you have any thoughts. There's a bit

56:34

of a fissure in

56:35

the gay community, the notion that

56:38

gender-affirming care in

56:40

some ways might threaten the gay community. I've

56:42

heard some fairly well-known gay

56:46

journalists say that

56:48

they're worried that, or they seem,

56:52

I just found it odd that they're not, they're not very

56:54

supportive, quite frankly. And it

56:58

creates, in my view, and I'm

57:00

putting my bias here, a dangerous level of confusion

57:02

and validation that, well, if, look what gay

57:05

people are saying about this. Any thoughts?

57:08

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, white

57:11

cisgender gay men have not always been the most inclusive

57:14

within the community. And

57:16

it's not just as a gay person, just as a human

57:18

being. I am not threatened by trans

57:21

people, and I have lost nothing because

57:23

trans people exist.

57:24

I, you know, I don't go through my

57:27

life wondering or thinking about

57:29

the existence of other people and how,

57:31

you

57:31

know, that threatens my identity

57:33

or my existence, you know, going

57:36

to Starbucks or going to Target and getting my kids

57:38

from daycare and, you know, doing all

57:40

those things. I'm not threatened by the existence of

57:42

trans people. And

57:43

I also feel like we have such

57:46

an obligation as a community to recognize

57:48

that the way we treat, you

57:51

know, the

57:54

most marginalized in our community is a

57:56

reflection upon how we treat ourselves. And

58:00

I know that I get

58:02

to walk through life with more privileges

58:05

than most trans people do. And

58:08

isn't it my responsibility to

58:10

turn around and offer a hand and

58:12

pull other people up

58:13

and to fight for other people? But the

58:16

fact that some people might be so

58:18

moved

58:19

as to reject the existence of other

58:21

people in

58:22

our community,

58:24

some people in our community have to realize that

58:26

they're

58:27

not just coming for trans people. They are not.

58:30

You know, it's not going to stop there.

58:32

And we have to show up for everyone.

58:33

They're not. You know what I call them,

58:36

Chasten? We call them, Scott, just so you know, those gays. We

58:39

know who they are. And we just go, oh, those gays.

58:42

It's really disheartening to hear that.

58:44

It really is. Because they're coming for you. They're

58:47

coming for you next. That's what they're

58:49

doing. And you just

58:49

don't... Well, they've already said it too, right? I mean, they've

58:52

already said it in a multitude of ways. But

58:54

how do you go through life with all that privilege and

58:56

just see that growth and progress

58:58

in our country, but realize that it was on the backs of other

59:00

people who fought for you either generations

59:03

ago or still fight for you right now?

59:05

So if we're truly a community,

59:07

then you show up for everyone in your community.

59:10

One hundred percent. Last question I have,

59:12

Chasten. What do you think life will be

59:14

like for gay teens in 20 years? I

59:17

honestly have been worried for the first time in a

59:19

lot of years since having so many kids and

59:21

you have kids. I felt very positive.

59:23

You know, I thought, oh, the world only spins forward, as

59:26

they say, in Angels in America. But

59:28

I'm a little bit worried more than I've

59:30

ever been. I don't know why, but I just feel

59:32

like just like that. They're

59:35

coming back once again. What

59:37

would you like it to be like and what do you think it might

59:39

be like?

59:41

I hope one day my kids ask me why

59:43

I needed to write a book like this in the first place. It

59:45

would become so irrelevant, you know, the fact that

59:48

we had to have a book that helps young people understand

59:50

that it's okay to be themselves, you know?

59:54

I think as a parent, as

59:56

you all know, you're just always terrified of

59:59

everything. all the time.

1:00:03

But I have this mixture of fear and hope because

1:00:06

when I travel the country and I meet people who are doing

1:00:08

the work, I realize that it's so removed

1:00:10

from the noise machine of Washington

1:00:13

and the people who get the microphones and the power,

1:00:15

you know? But those people also get to cast the votes.

1:00:18

They're also passing

1:00:18

those bills. I mean, the

1:00:21

anti-drug queen stuff. Oh, come on.

1:00:23

So I see like an upcoming generation

1:00:25

and I see the fire in their eyes and I see the people

1:00:27

who love them rallying around them and I see that hope

1:00:29

and I see that action, but then I

1:00:32

see people passing these bills

1:00:35

and passing that legislation. So if we can

1:00:37

find a right way to garner that support and energy

1:00:39

and kick these people out of office,

1:00:42

you know, I want to hold onto that hope

1:00:45

because I feel like if you, you just can't give up hope,

1:00:47

right? And it's easier to hold on when other people

1:00:49

are holding onto you. And so I think

1:00:51

for me, that work, especially that

1:00:54

very visible work is just about surrounding myself

1:00:56

with the people who I know are on the right side of history,

1:00:58

doing the right thing and want to continue

1:01:01

doing the right thing. Because if I focus on

1:01:03

the noise machine, then it will just beat us all down. So

1:01:05

yes. Well, that's why you're from the Midwest

1:01:07

and I'm from New York. So we're

1:01:10

manning the barricades over here, growing

1:01:12

children for my militia. Anyway,

1:01:15

the book is called I Have Something to Tell You for Young

1:01:17

Adults by Chasten Buttigieg.

1:01:19

It's available now. Thank you so much.

1:01:22

Thanks for having me. All right,

1:01:24

Scott. I like him so much. He's such a good

1:01:26

guy. Such a good guy. One more quick

1:01:28

break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

1:01:35

Support for Pivot comes

1:01:37

from Mint Mobile. Your fund is an

1:01:39

essential part of your day to day life. But

1:01:41

paying exorbitant prices for your plan doesn't

1:01:43

have to be part of the deal. With Mint Mobile, your monthly

1:01:46

cell phone bill can be as little as $15. Mint

1:01:49

Mobile allows you to keep 5G

1:01:52

on the go and saves you money. As someone who

1:01:54

travels a lot, being connected anywhere I go

1:01:56

is important to me. So for anyone

1:01:58

who hates their phone bill... Mint

1:02:00

Mobile offers premium wireless as little

1:02:03

as $15 a month. Mint Mobile can

1:02:05

give you a great rate whether you're buying for one

1:02:07

or the entire family. And with Mint,

1:02:10

family plans start at just two lines. All

1:02:12

plans come with unlimited talk and text plus high-speed

1:02:14

data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.

1:02:17

Plus, you can use the phone you

1:02:19

already have with any Mint Mobile plan to keep

1:02:21

your same phone number. To get your new wireless

1:02:24

plan for just $15 a month and

1:02:26

get the plan shipped to your door for free, go

1:02:28

to mintmobile.com slash

1:02:29

pivot. That's mintmobile.com slash pivot.

1:02:32

Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month

1:02:35

at mintmobile.com slash

1:02:37

pivot.

1:02:40

The recurring fight over whether to raise

1:02:42

the debt ceiling is a uniquely American phenomenon

1:02:45

and one that we've talked about on Today Explained. Yeah,

1:02:48

my first debt ceiling fight was 2011 and I

1:02:50

was an intern and still in college. And

1:02:53

so I've been doing this my entire professional life

1:02:56

and it seems like it will never end.

1:02:57

Recently, atop Capitol Hill,

1:03:00

another uniquely American phenomenon unfolded. House

1:03:02

Speaker Kevin McCarthy proposed, as part

1:03:05

of the negotiations over the debt ceiling, work

1:03:07

requirements for Americans getting government

1:03:10

assistance in the form of welfare programs

1:03:12

and even Medicaid. McCarthy has pointed

1:03:14

out that Americans voting for other Americans

1:03:16

to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is nothing new.

1:03:19

This

1:03:19

is something that President Biden

1:03:22

as senator voted for. He did. This

1:03:24

is something that President Bill Clinton signed.

1:03:26

He did. Welfare reform, class of 96. Decades

1:03:29

ago, America decided if you want help,

1:03:32

you need to work. How's that working out

1:03:34

for us? Today Explained, every weekday,

1:03:36

wherever you get your podcasts.

1:03:43

OK, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Well,

1:03:45

my win is Summit at Sea. I like it when young,

1:03:47

smart people start companies that don't involve technology.

1:03:50

Yeah. Yeah. And

1:03:52

also take mushrooms at night. What

1:03:56

do you mean by that? See

1:03:58

what I did there, Chas?

1:03:59

So anyways. I

1:04:03

really think it's important

1:04:06

that I think loneliness is

1:04:10

a huge issue for young people.

1:04:12

And so any business

1:04:14

that brings together people where they can touch

1:04:16

each other and

1:04:17

get to know each other and be in the presence of each

1:04:19

other physically, I think is a wonderful sign. And

1:04:22

so I really enjoyed it. It was good for me because

1:04:24

I'm getting more introverted as I get older

1:04:27

and my talk was initially scheduled

1:04:29

for Thursday and the boat was

1:04:31

in dock. And I thought, great, I'm gonna

1:04:33

give my talk and I'm gonna bomb out of here and head

1:04:35

home. And they

1:04:38

changed my talk. So when the boat left

1:04:40

for the first time in a while, I was like

1:04:42

in the moment and actually had to

1:04:43

just relax for a couple of days and that was nice. Anyways,

1:04:46

my win is young, talented people

1:04:49

starting businesses that don't involve technology.

1:04:52

My loss is, I found

1:04:55

this, I think I saw it either

1:04:56

on Reels or TikTok,

1:04:58

which is interesting. I'm watching MSNBC now on

1:05:00

meta. But

1:05:03

Chris Hayes, I haven't seen a lot of Chris

1:05:05

Hayes. He did this really gripping piece

1:05:08

on a family in Florida

1:05:11

who tragically, they have a couple of kids

1:05:13

I believe, tragically found out. Milo. I'm

1:05:16

sorry? Go ahead, sorry, I think I

1:05:18

know what you're talking about, but go ahead. They found out the kid

1:05:20

was suffering from, I think it's called Potter syndrome.

1:05:22

I'm sorry, the unborn child was suffering

1:05:24

from Potter syndrome, which basically

1:05:26

means that the child's or the fetus's

1:05:29

organs do not develop, lungs do not develop,

1:05:31

certain death pretty

1:05:34

much upon delivery.

1:05:36

And because of the laws that have

1:05:38

been passed by a Florida Senate

1:05:40

and legislature average age 57, 70% of

1:05:43

men and our governor who wants

1:05:45

to inflame people, the crazies

1:05:47

holding straws in Iowa, this

1:05:50

is how it plays out on the ground.

1:05:52

And that is this lovely family.

1:05:55

Can't find anyone. These are not people

1:05:58

who are all about choice and taking day after.

1:05:59

pills. These are people who would, under

1:06:02

almost any circumstances, decide

1:06:04

to take the child or carry the child to term.

1:06:07

And they can't find someone in Florida because

1:06:09

the laws are now so restrictive, impunative,

1:06:12

that potentially involve jail for a

1:06:14

medical professional that no one will perform

1:06:16

a

1:06:17

terminated

1:06:19

pregnancy. And so this

1:06:21

family, this mother, has

1:06:24

to carry

1:06:25

a child. And

1:06:27

among other things, explain to her

1:06:30

son that this kid is not going

1:06:32

to come home with them,

1:06:34

and then have to go into a hospital, deliver

1:06:37

the child, and without getting into details,

1:06:40

suffer this gruesome death. And

1:06:43

you think to yourself, we have

1:06:46

a guy who wants to represent America,

1:06:49

you have a Florida legislature that

1:06:52

is a bunch of men in their 50s torturing

1:06:55

women, literally. Well,

1:06:58

that's what the father, the grandfather

1:07:01

says is pure torture. Torturing women.

1:07:03

That piece, it's in the Washington Post,

1:07:06

the short Life of Milo, was

1:07:08

devastating. I just... Devastating.

1:07:11

And costly, too, by the way. I would

1:07:13

bet a very religious person would say, good,

1:07:15

that the baby lived for the short time and can go

1:07:17

to Jesus. I can just see that, too.

1:07:20

That was what infuriated these people.

1:07:23

But that person... Torture. That

1:07:26

person is in the vast, vast

1:07:28

minority. And unfortunately,

1:07:30

that viewpoint, because of minority rule,

1:07:33

has bubbled up because our

1:07:35

electoral system now values extremist positions,

1:07:38

and people who take positions

1:07:41

that show absolutely no empathy

1:07:43

for what happens at the

1:07:45

ground level. You must read this

1:07:47

piece. The Washington Post is producing...

1:07:49

They would just want to appeal at their prize for their

1:07:52

coverage of abortion issues, for example.

1:07:54

But this piece is

1:07:56

devastating. And there's two of them, actually.

1:07:59

Yeah.

1:07:59

Because it stays with you forever.

1:08:03

This piece is amazing, amazing journalism,

1:08:05

amazing story, these people coming forward,

1:08:08

I'm sure at great risk to themselves. And

1:08:11

you're literally like, fuck you, Ron DeSantis,

1:08:13

you torturing fuck fuck. It was a

1:08:15

wonderfully instructive

1:08:18

way to understand how badly

1:08:20

these legislative efforts

1:08:23

impact people. It's

1:08:25

not wonderful, it just really hits

1:08:27

home. Those are good ones. I would

1:08:29

say my

1:08:29

win was the states along the Colorado

1:08:32

River, which

1:08:34

supplies water and electricity

1:08:36

to most of the West, finally reached an agreement

1:08:39

with the Biden administration. It's government in good

1:08:41

action. It's going to protect a lot of

1:08:43

lakes. It's exchanged

1:08:45

for $1.2 billion in federal funding.

1:08:48

They have to stabilize this river for states

1:08:50

of California, Arizona, Nevada,

1:08:53

all these states, Colorado. And so it's

1:08:55

really important that they pass this. It's good government

1:08:57

in action. It's not a perfect solution. There's

1:08:59

just not enough water for the amount of people that live there

1:09:01

and all the electricity demands, but it's

1:09:04

that they reached

1:09:04

a deal with, to me, government does work

1:09:07

and we'll see where it goes. But they definitely, it

1:09:10

was a tough, tough, tough negotiation

1:09:13

with scarcity. And so I thought that

1:09:15

was a very positive thing. I

1:09:17

was going to mention the Milo story in the

1:09:20

negative thing. I would urge people to read

1:09:22

that story. It'll change your life. And

1:09:25

it's so depressing and yet these people are

1:09:27

so brave to have told their story in this

1:09:30

way and I feel

1:09:31

so awful for them in so many

1:09:33

ways. Okay, Scott, that's the show.

1:09:35

It kind of ended on a sad note, but it's worth it. We can't end

1:09:37

there. What are you doing this week, Kara? What am I

1:09:40

doing this week? I'm going to give the commencement address

1:09:42

at Cooper Union. Of course you are. I'm

1:09:45

going to talk about how AO is going to destroy us all.

1:09:47

Now, what should I say? What would be the message? And

1:09:49

I will tell them from you. What would be

1:09:51

the message?

1:09:51

Tell your kids you love them conditionally.

1:09:54

Oh, very nice. Well done. I

1:09:57

like that, Scott. And also that the

1:09:59

people in the in the audience that are there aren't gonna be around

1:10:01

forever. Yes, I was gonna do a big death

1:10:04

thing. That's where I was going. And I thought the parents

1:10:06

would hate it, but the students would like it. That's my feeling. No, the parents

1:10:08

like it. Their kids come up and hug them, the parents like it.

1:10:11

Oh, yeah, okay. Hug your parents.

1:10:13

Hug them. Even if you don't like them, hug them. Anyway,

1:10:16

so that's what I'm doing. That's a good thing. I think that's

1:10:19

hopeful. I like the young people, just like Chastin was saying.

1:10:21

Young people, there's a lot of better people

1:10:24

in this country than are representing us. There are,

1:10:26

there really are, once you go out. Minority rule.

1:10:29

He is right, he is 100% right, and

1:10:31

we have to keep that in mind because the noisy,

1:10:34

small group of people will kill us if we

1:10:36

let them, I think. Anyway,

1:10:38

that's a hopeful thing. What are you doing this week?

1:10:39

I'm back in London, so it's gonna be a

1:10:42

lot of Premier League football and time with the dogs.

1:10:44

I'm going to meet. And weather, good weather, good

1:10:46

weather. To find good, sister. I'm

1:10:50

going tonight to meet some. It's

1:10:53

Parents' Night at the American School in London,

1:10:55

and I'm going to meet parents, which I'm excited

1:10:57

about. When I

1:10:59

say excited, meaning I'd rather not go, but

1:11:02

we've committed to going. You know what you mean.

1:11:04

Good, well, that's good. End of school, and

1:11:06

also Clara's school ends this

1:11:09

week, and Alex will be graduating soon, so

1:11:11

that'll be fun. That'll be fun. A lot of changes,

1:11:14

ch-ch-changes. Anyway, have

1:11:17

a beautiful beginning of summer, everybody.

1:11:19

It's coming this week on Memorial Day, and

1:11:21

please enjoy yourself, and think about hugging

1:11:24

your children. Anyway, we want to hear from

1:11:26

you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or

1:11:29

whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit

1:11:31

a question for the show, or call 855-51-Pivot.

1:11:34

Today's show was

1:11:36

produced by Larry Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin.

1:11:39

Ernie and Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also

1:11:41

to Drew Burrows and Emil Ceverio. Make sure you subscribe

1:11:43

to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks

1:11:45

for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox

1:11:47

Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown

1:11:50

of all things tech and business.

1:11:53

We love you unconditionally.

1:11:58

We love you.

1:12:00

Thank you.