0:01

Support for this show comes from

0:03

HubSpot. More to-dos, less time, and

0:05

an infinite number of tools to

0:07

keep track of. Sometimes doing business

0:09

has never felt harder. But you

0:11

don't need a miracle to hit

0:14

your goals. You can just use

0:16

HubSpot because their all-in-one customer platform

0:18

can make growing your business infinitely

0:20

easier. Imagine this, high quality leads,

0:22

fast closing deals, wildly happy customers,

0:24

and more benchmark breaking quarters. It's

0:26

not a miracle, it's HubSpot. Visit

0:28

hubspot.com to get started today. Support

0:36

for this show comes from ServiceNow, the

0:38

AI platform for business transformation. You've heard

0:40

the big hype around AI. The truth

0:42

is, AI is only as powerful as

0:44

the platform it's built into. ServiceNow

0:46

is the platform that puts AI

0:48

to work for people across your

0:50

business, removing friction and frustration for

0:52

your employees. Supercharging productivity for your

0:54

developers, providing intelligent tools for your

0:57

service agents to make customers happier.

0:59

AI built into a single platform

1:01

you can use right now. That's

1:03

why the world works with ServiceNow.

1:05

Visit servicenow.com for people to learn more. Hi

1:15

everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine

1:17

and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara

1:20

Swisher and I'm in Aspen. What? Oh,

1:23

you're at the Aspen Ideas Festival. Yes

1:25

I am. This

1:28

is an aggressively adorable town. It's a little bit

1:30

irritating in that regard. I'm interested in where your

1:32

house is. I want to go see it. But

1:35

it's fine, it's great. It's a lot

1:38

of ideas and a lot of big

1:40

people. I ran into your friend Richard

1:42

Reeves in the airport. There's

1:44

all kinds of really cool people here and it's fun.

1:48

I did two events. One was a

1:51

thing called American Vortex with David Brooks

1:53

was the moderator and Mike Madrid was

1:55

on the panel and Sherilyn Ifill.

1:59

That was interesting. And then Brian

2:01

Chesky interviewed me for my book,

2:03

which was interesting. And do

2:05

you think that people go for Aspen or they

2:07

go for the ideas? Oh, no, the ideas. They're

2:09

totally into it. And let me just tell you, we have

2:12

so many fans. I've been like mobbed by

2:14

people. Like we could. Like

2:16

mobbed. It was crazy. And people wanting pictures,

2:18

they all ask about you. And they all

2:21

have an opinion about Scott Galloway, which was

2:23

always enjoyable. There you go. But

2:25

they like you. They have a lot of attention for you. But

2:28

someone, you know, I always dine with famous

2:30

people. And you say, did they ask about

2:32

me? And I say, no. You

2:34

know I do that. Or you do that all the time, right? Like

2:36

whenever I'm with you. Emily Radikowski is finally coming

2:38

to her senses. No, she's

2:40

not. She's my number three on her number two. Last

2:43

night, I got a text from Julie

2:45

Louise Dreyfus, who is here,

2:48

who did an interview, great podcast interview

2:50

with someone here. I

2:52

did one a couple of weeks ago with her, but she did

2:54

a wonderful job. And she texted me. She says, you want to

2:56

have dinner? And we did. We

2:58

ended up having dinner. And she literally

3:01

says, tell Scott, I really

3:03

am enjoying listening to him. I would love

3:05

to meet him. She was, she's

3:07

a, yes, it's the first time a

3:10

well-known person has asked me. I

3:13

appreciate that. It was great.

3:15

I was like, yeah. The key for

3:17

me is not to meet them. I literally define

3:19

don't meet your heroes. I think people think I'm

3:21

going to be engaging and interesting and I'm neither

3:23

of those things. But I,

3:27

Julia Louis Dreyfus is literally staring at

3:29

me when I go to sleep at night

3:31

because your friend Tammy Hadad gave

3:33

me this deep pillow. Oh, I

3:36

have one too. Yes, they're great. And you know

3:38

me, very few things passed muster to get into the Northern

3:41

European manic depressed clean household

3:43

decor of Scott Callaway. I

3:46

don't like anything. You don't like, I don't

3:48

like spare change. I don't want, I like

3:50

spare change, Landra, no. Scott's house has had

3:52

nothing on, I tried to put stuff on

3:54

the counter. I want something that says children

3:56

not welcome. And this guy is very wealthy.

3:59

Please take off. your clothes. That

4:01

is kind of the message I'm trying to communicate

4:03

to people. It's true. But

4:05

kids and guests are not welcome. Visitors

4:07

for a little while, for a little

4:09

while, but please do not stay here

4:12

as you cannot maintain these standards. But

4:15

that pillow that she gave me is such a

4:17

cool pillow and it's on one of my chairs,

4:19

my barber berry chair I might add in my

4:22

bedroom. Anyways, that's my Julia Louis Dreyfus story. Yeah,

4:24

it's a picture of her as Mount Rushmore when

4:26

she was in V. It's her face on it.

4:29

And then it has Scott, your name on it,

4:31

right? No, I didn't get the custom

4:33

pillow. Oh, I got the custom pillow. You

4:36

always got a one up me. You now you're claiming

4:38

you got a better pillow than me. Literally.

4:43

Well, I didn't claim it. You can't even

4:45

let me have a pillow. One

4:49

up, thank you. I was wondering if you had

4:51

the same pillow. No, I didn't even know they

4:53

didn't not put names on it. What's Julia Louis

4:55

Dreyfus like? She's wonderful.

4:57

She's lovely. She's smart. She's

5:00

so thoughtful. Just

5:03

thoughtful. She has a new movie called Tuesday

5:05

that I recommend everybody see. It's

5:07

a dramatic role, but she's still very

5:09

funny in it. But it's about a

5:11

mother whose daughter is dying and the

5:14

specter of death arrives at their door

5:16

in the form of a giant macaw

5:19

that she eats. Anyway, it's really crazy. It's

5:21

a crazy movie, but

5:23

it's wonderful. She's wonderful. This is a

5:25

role you wouldn't... She's been in a

5:27

lot of dramatic roles actually and quite

5:29

a wonderful actor. But she's

5:32

just everything you'd imagine her to be and elegant

5:35

and classy. Paid

5:38

for dinner. Everything was great. Paid

5:40

for dinner. I love that. Paid

5:42

for dinner, classy move by

5:44

JLD. But she

5:47

likes... Scott listens and she really said, gives Scott

5:49

my regards. And I was very touched. I was

5:51

like, you're the first thing to ask for that.

5:54

The first person that's ever asked about me. But

5:56

you're going to be spending a lot of time

5:58

on asking because I'm... I think I told you

6:00

I bought a home there and I'm renovating. Yes,

6:02

yes, it's nice here. You know my strategy, I

6:04

want a series of homes where my kids come

6:06

visit me and I can just hang out and

6:09

wait for the ass cancer. And that aspen is

6:12

where it's going to happen. I

6:16

can see it. There's a wealth

6:18

divide here that's so apparent. There's so many

6:20

wealthy people here. It's like

6:23

more than Hamptons. It's not a divide,

6:25

it's wealth. There's no divide. There's very

6:27

few. Well, there's like people who

6:29

serve them and the rich people. You

6:32

can see it really. Yeah, they live in Basalt.

6:35

Now they have those tourist visas where people

6:37

come in. But it's actually a really big

6:39

problem in Pitkin County is that all

6:41

the workers have been priced out of living there. And

6:45

although I do think if you look at the

6:47

economic data, and this is

6:49

40 years overdue, but the part

6:51

of the stack economically

6:55

that's grown wages finally, faster than

6:57

inflation over the last few years,

7:00

is service workers. And that's because

7:03

literally COVID was like, let me get this. You're going to pay me $9 an

7:05

hour to tell some fucking idiot to put on their

7:07

mask and I've got to put myself in harm's way.

7:10

And a lot of them just opted out of the

7:12

labor force. And fortunately, I mean, it's really good. Even

7:15

if you think about, I'm fascinated by

7:17

tipping culture. Now you're expected

7:19

to tip the person, the barista, at a coffee

7:21

place. You know those pads that they flip around?

7:24

Yes, they have it. Yeah. And they sit there

7:26

staring at you like, bro, the

7:29

rich guy buying an $11 coffee, you're not

7:31

going to give me 20%. And I think it's

7:33

kind of, I actually think it's a good thing.

7:35

I think, I do think, especially in a place

7:37

like Aspen, I think a lot of those workers

7:39

are actually making pretty good money right now, which

7:41

is a wonderful thing. Yeah, I think so. It's

7:43

just, you can feel it, like the construction going

7:45

on. It's really, it's just

7:47

the money just oozes out of this place. But,

7:50

and unless it's beautiful, it's crazy. It is crazier

7:52

than many places. And we go to a lot

7:54

of different places for these conferences. I'm just one

7:56

more macro thing about Aspen, as I'm renovating a

7:59

house there. Aspen is a perfect

8:01

example. I mean, essentially, it's a beautiful mountain town,

8:03

but there's no reason homes should be going for

8:05

$50 million there. But what they do is

8:08

they have weaponized government and they make

8:10

it impossible to get housing permits or

8:12

even renovation permits, thereby you can't build

8:14

housing, thereby the incumbents who already own

8:16

a home, see, create what

8:18

is effectively beach run real estate, even though it's

8:20

not on the beach, such that the people who

8:22

already own homes get

8:24

wealthier and wealthier and people who need homes or

8:27

need to build apartments for workers or for middle

8:29

class people, God forbid, who want to live in

8:31

that area, they cannot afford a

8:33

home. It's a beautiful mountain, but there are a

8:35

lot of beautiful mountains in the Rockies. And what

8:37

a group of rich people have done is they've

8:39

come together and created a conspiracy to create out

8:42

of control income inequality in this little region, such

8:44

that the incumbents get wealthier and wealthier. And to

8:46

a certain extent, this is what's happening all over

8:49

the nation is the incumbents just make it very,

8:51

very difficult for the entrance. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it

8:53

is beautiful. I mean, it is beautiful. And by

8:55

the way, Lauren Boebert is not going to be

8:58

your Congressperson anymore when you're an old asking. She's

9:00

heard that. She won her primary though. She won

9:02

her primary on the fourth. She had to leave

9:04

this district, which includes Aspen, because

9:06

she was going to lose to that guy

9:09

who's a businessman here in Aspen, to

9:12

a Democrat. She nearly lost her Democrat. But she's going back to

9:14

Congress. She's going back to Congress

9:16

because she won in the fourth. So just

9:18

to note, we have to move on. We're

9:20

recording this before tonight's presidential debate. We'll share

9:22

our thoughts in our next episode. We talked

9:24

about it in the last episode. We've got

9:26

a lot to get to do, including the

9:28

Supreme Court hands, the Biden administration and social

9:30

media companies a big win, a big story.

9:32

And Volkswagen gives Rivian a $5 billion shot

9:34

in the arm, or in the car, I

9:36

guess. But first, Waymo, speaking

9:39

of cars, RoboTaxi service is now available

9:41

to everyone in San Francisco. The company

9:43

says as many as 300,000 people

9:45

are on the waitlist for San Francisco service.

9:47

Not all smooth sailing, as you know, the

9:49

US safety probe into Waymo last month found

9:52

17 reports of crashes and five other possible

9:54

traffic law violations, but no injuries. There's probably

9:56

like hundreds of human ones. I just want

9:58

to make that point. And earlier

10:00

this month, the company recalled software and all

10:02

its cars left when it crashed into a

10:04

telephone pole. The service has already been fully

10:07

available in Phoenix for four years. I

10:09

ride it all the time. I agree the safety

10:12

probes should go on and on and on, but

10:14

they work really well. And I

10:16

think eventually they are gonna sort it out

10:18

correctly and they're much safer than, I'm sorry,

10:21

human drivers, they just are. Would

10:23

you get in a Waymo? I get in them all the time, but

10:25

would you? 100%, and

10:27

whenever I read those stats put out

10:29

by some union or far

10:33

left group that's just outraged

10:36

at the destruction of automation.

10:38

And they've decided to infuse

10:40

everything that's wrong with the

10:42

tech community, income inequality into

10:44

autonomous driving. And I hear

10:46

these stats, I see the stats in this article saying

10:48

11 injuries reported in the last year from autonomous driving.

10:51

My first thought is, okay, now do 16 and 86

10:53

year olds. Now

10:56

look at the pool of 16. I

10:58

mean, do you really have, teaching a kid to

11:00

drive right now, I am

11:03

just horrified. You go to

11:05

the DMV, you go to the DMV,

11:07

they take a test saying, what's the difference between a double

11:09

yellow line and a single yellow? And as long as they

11:11

don't get more than like 20% of those questions wrong,

11:13

they say, God be with you, and you

11:16

can roll out and just start driving as

11:19

long as there's someone in the car with you. And

11:21

I remember though on the way home, my kids like, can

11:23

I drive? And I'm like, no fucking way. He's like, well,

11:26

I got my learner's permit. And I'm like, okay, but this

11:28

is how we learn. They'll let

11:30

anyone, literally, and then you can't take

11:32

driver's licenses away. That is how you

11:34

drive, excuse me, that's how we are both, I

11:37

just drove. I just drove. That's how I did it

11:39

too, you're right. That's how I remember. I had a lesson, I guess. I

11:41

guess I had a lesson. My mom used to come home early or

11:43

come home from work and I drive her Opalmana stick shift.

11:45

I learned how to drive on a stick shift up and

11:47

down in the garage. But where they really screwed up here

11:50

was picking the first market to be San Francisco,

11:52

because they made the mistake of thinking of their

11:54

technology adopters. Well, and

11:57

I bet, I would bet, and I don't know this, I

11:59

would. I would bet that they're getting much less

12:01

pushback in Phoenix than they are in San Francisco.

12:03

They're getting almost none. Yeah, they're

12:05

getting almost none. Because they're a group

12:07

of conservatives that are like, okay, can

12:09

it get Nana to her physical therapy

12:11

appointment more easily and less expensive? Boom,

12:13

I'm in. Where I

12:16

think their biggest mistake was one,

12:19

deciding the test market should be San Francisco not

12:22

realizing that, okay, they're not

12:24

early adopters. They're people who host the tech

12:26

community who are going to find problems in

12:29

anything related to technology that they can reverse

12:31

engineer to some sort of big tech or

12:33

income inequality. The other thing is this technology

12:35

perfectly embodies what Bill Gates

12:38

said about technology. The stuff that's supposed to

12:40

take three years takes 10 years, and the

12:42

stuff that's supposed to take 10 years takes

12:44

three. This was supposed to

12:46

take three years. It's happening, but it's going

12:48

to take 10 years. And we're kind of

12:50

year seven or eight into it. Yeah, I

12:52

agree. I think the reason that San Francisco

12:54

was multifaceted, it wasn't just that. I think

12:56

it's also a challenging environment that's not in

12:58

the snow, right? It's harder with snow and

13:00

weather, heavy weather. And so I

13:02

think, and they're doing Los Angeles too. They're also,

13:04

they've been testing in Los Angeles. In

13:07

Phoenix, they go to the airport, which I

13:09

think they go to the airport. And so

13:11

they're doing a little more complex stuff. So

13:13

I think they pick places that work for

13:16

the weather and everything else. And San Francisco

13:18

is a relatively mild climate in general. It's

13:20

a couple and it rains a lot, but

13:22

that's not as often as it used to

13:24

be. So I think that's

13:26

one of the, and the challenge of the hills is

13:28

a different challenge than Phoenix. That's what

13:30

they were looking for. But I have to say, I just,

13:32

I use them. I think everyone will

13:34

not even think about it years from now. And

13:37

again, I've had so many close

13:39

calls and Ubers with human drivers. I'm sorry.

13:42

It's just, it should be

13:44

under complete strict safety codes

13:46

and we should watch it

13:48

carefully. But let me tell you

13:50

when it starts to learn and it won't make

13:52

the same mistakes that Nana

13:55

will make over and over again. My mom keeps

13:57

wanting to drive again. I'm like, I've never. on

13:59

this, she does. She's just like, I'm getting in

14:01

a car. I saw that. I saw a lucky

14:03

show to my house, hunched over in a walker

14:05

asking me if I was gay every 30 seconds

14:07

and then heading off into the wild roads of

14:09

Florida in her car. I know. I

14:11

remember seeing her. I walked out to say goodbye

14:13

and the most horrifying thing I saw was like,

14:16

she can't be in the left seat. Jesus Christ,

14:18

she's behind a steering wheel. And

14:20

I remember saying to her, she's like, how do

14:22

I get to Palm Beach? And I'm like, okay,

14:24

it's easy. You literally come out the driveway, you

14:26

make a right and you don't stop until

14:29

you see a big sign that says Palm

14:31

Beach left and or you see the breakers.

14:33

And she's like, great. And she literally by

14:36

bombs out bangs the left. I mean, right

14:38

there. I'm like, that's it, she's

14:40

gone. Problem solved for

14:43

Jeffrey and Kara. She's gonna

14:45

end up in Havana before

14:47

she gets to Palm Beach. It

14:50

was so scary. It was so scary.

14:52

She cannot. She still wants to drive.

14:54

She's in more, anyway. I

14:57

know, I know. Don't talk to me, don't speak

14:59

to me about this. It's a very delicate subject

15:01

among the Switchers. She asked me where the bathroom

15:03

was and she disappeared. And I found her in

15:05

the family room 15 minutes later. I'm like, oh

15:08

yeah, definitely get her on I-95. My

15:12

little elderly abuse. Little

15:15

ageism there. You're definitely gonna hear from her.

15:17

She used to like me. Can

15:19

I just tell you, she was a terrible driver at 40. I

15:22

used to be her favorite gay guy no longer.

15:24

I know, I know. She was a terrible driver

15:26

at 40, so it's continued. So

15:28

Julian Assange is a free man. This is

15:31

a fascinating case. Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks,

15:33

pleaded guilty to violating the Espionage Act

15:35

under a plea deal in the US courtroom

15:37

in the remote island of Saipan. I didn't

15:39

even know we had a US courtroom

15:41

in the remote island of Saipan. The judge

15:44

sentenced Assange to 62 months, which

15:46

he already had served in a London

15:49

prison. The guilty plea comes over a

15:51

decade after WikiLeaks published Confidential US Military

15:53

Records about America's actions in Iraq and

15:56

Afghanistan. I mean,

15:58

this seems like the longest running

16:00

thing. ever. It's a decade. It's

16:02

crazy. And he's been in various

16:04

places trying to seek asylum and

16:06

kicked out at various places. Some

16:08

people think he's an asset of

16:11

Russia, I guess. But they finally

16:13

decided just to let him

16:15

go. It's going back to Australia, I

16:17

think, Australia. Right? Actually, when

16:19

I read this, I'm not a fan of Julian

16:21

Assange. I believe that I

16:24

think that a lot of people on the

16:26

far left just are naive about what's required

16:28

to keep our shores safe. And I think

16:31

even if you empathize with someone who believes they're trying to do

16:33

the right thing, I think when you shove a

16:36

USB up your ass and head to Moscow, you

16:39

should... I like

16:41

what Madeleine Albright said,

16:43

our memory is long and our reach is far. But

16:46

at the end of the day, I was happy to hear this because he's

16:49

paid a real price. This is a man who's

16:51

really, for the most part, given up his youth.

16:54

And has been on the run, has

16:57

been hiding out, I think, in the Ecuadorian embassy. Where

16:59

was it at? Somewhere in Europe? Yeah, he was all

17:01

over the place. Living with cats. And finally, they got

17:03

so sick of him, they kicked him out. And he

17:06

got the

17:08

sense, did you see that picture of him and you read too

17:10

much in this video of him boarding that jet? He

17:13

got the sense. I don't want to say he's a broken

17:15

man, but at some point he's like, it's time for me

17:17

to get on with my life. And

17:19

also... He didn't speak because he's usually so outspoken if

17:22

you noticed he didn't... Oh, you think that part of

17:24

this deal is shut the fuck up. Oh, I don't

17:26

know. Well, maybe. Yeah, you're

17:28

right. Maybe so. I don't know. I bet they...

17:30

I'm sure they have left an opening that says,

17:32

if you... I bet his lawyer

17:34

has said, I

17:37

have one piece of advice. Two, one,

17:39

live your life. Two, shut the fuck up.

17:42

Three, see number two. Because

17:45

do you really

17:47

want to open Pandora's box again?

17:50

Because anyways, I think this

17:53

is the right thing. I think what he did was

17:55

illegal. I think he paid an enormous price for it.

17:58

And I hope he gets on with his life.

18:00

I think... I think what happened here did, what's

18:02

supposed to happen here did happen. Yeah, I

18:04

think it was the Australian Prime Minister,

18:06

Anthony Albanese, who raised this with President

18:08

Biden two years ago. The

18:11

Australian government has been trying

18:13

to get him out of this, and

18:15

it was critical to it, which is

18:17

interesting. But one of the things they're

18:19

saying, it was, this is from the Wall Street Journal,

18:21

his immediate priority is eating real food, playing with his

18:24

children, going swimming in the ocean. People

18:26

close to Assange says, yeah, says he

18:28

will eventually return to the public spotlight

18:30

fighting for press freedom, defining his legacy

18:33

and promoting human rights. He doesn't strike me as

18:35

a shrinking violet, said Andrew Wilkie, an

18:37

Australian lawmaker who advocated for Assange's release

18:39

from prison in London. I don't think

18:41

he's finished writing the Assange story yet.

18:45

So we'll see. But it's interesting that Australia

18:47

was the, sort of did this quiet diplomacy

18:50

and made it a priority for him,

18:53

which is interesting. And he's

18:55

looking for a pardon now. He's trying to get a

18:57

pardon. We'll see. Anyway, it's an interesting

18:59

story, definitely full of all kinds of twists and

19:01

turns. It's definitely got caught up in this sort

19:04

of Russia-U.S. misinformation war

19:06

that goes on almost

19:08

continually, and whether it

19:10

was used and this and that. So

19:12

anyway, another story that's really

19:15

interesting, Scott, I noticed Nvidia stock, they were

19:17

talking about here in Aspen, it's been on

19:19

a rollercoaster this week, shares are headed back

19:21

up after multiple days of decline, which cost

19:23

the company its title is the world's most

19:25

valuable company. The chipmaker now stands as the

19:27

third most valuable company with a market cap

19:29

of 3.11 trillion,

19:31

still enormously high. Nvidia

19:34

shares are still up over 160% since January. What

19:39

do you think about this? I think

19:41

a lot of people

19:44

thought this was coming. You talked

19:46

about this a lot. Go ahead. Since

19:49

it's rebound at 7%, its ups and downs aren't that

19:51

interesting. What's more interesting is that when it loses 13%

19:55

over the course of three days, it

19:59

basically loses the value. of MasterCard. I

20:01

mean, if you look at the blast

20:03

zone or ground zero of essentially $2

20:05

trillion in incremental value creation over the

20:07

last six or 12 months, the

20:10

knock on effects are so dramatic. If this

20:13

company could go down 80% and

20:15

all of a sudden the NASDAQ and the S&P wouldn't

20:18

be keeping pace with inflation. One

20:20

company is now sort of as goes, I

20:22

mean, it used to be

20:24

the magnificent seven, now it's the magnificent one.

20:27

So Nvidia has now become the tail that's

20:29

wagging the dog of almost everything. And I'm

20:32

fascinated by this thing because people just can't

20:34

imagine the kind of value creation here and

20:36

what it means when it becomes

20:38

so huge that in

20:41

this volatile, it is, I mean, the

20:43

NASDAQ is effectively the tone for the

20:46

American economy right now is

20:48

gonna be directly and indirectly

20:50

dictated by the volatility of

20:53

Nvidia. For example, 30,000

20:55

employees, 3

20:58

trillion plus market cap. So you're talking about $100

21:00

million per person. I

21:02

worked my ass off, got so lucky with

21:04

L2, sold it for

21:07

$160 million after executing almost what I

21:09

felt like was perfectly having just an

21:11

incredibly lucky just finally I did something

21:13

and I got all the moons lined

21:15

up. $160 million, 80 people, so

21:19

that's $2 million per employee. They've

21:22

generated somewhere between 100 and 130 million per

21:25

employee and I would bet of those 30,000, 10,000

21:28

woke up last week and

21:31

said, I'm worth between 10 and $50 million.

21:35

What does that do to San Francisco real estate prices when all

21:37

of a sudden, what do you do when you're 29 or 34?

21:40

It already is affected, you know that. We talked

21:42

about luxury housing is way up. A

21:46

lot of the tech companies and especially all

21:48

the and open AI, everybody coming back, et

21:50

cetera, et cetera. When you have 10,000 people

21:52

probably in their 20s, 30s

21:54

and 40s that all of a sudden have $10 million

21:56

in incremental wealth, you gotta think two

21:58

thirds of them are thinking. We're either going to buy

22:00

a nice home or a better home. I mean, we're

22:02

going to buy our first home or upgrade. What does

22:04

that do to housing stock? I mean, there's just and

22:07

then what happens if this thing goes down

22:09

80 percent? It could invite you to decide

22:11

to press the presidential election. If the market

22:13

is off 2 percent

22:16

instead of up 14, that

22:18

is a huge talking point for

22:20

for the Republicans. This Nvidia has

22:22

become as Nvidia goes, so

22:25

goes the market and the perception of

22:27

the American economy. So is it

22:29

a buy now, Scott, for people who are like, this

22:32

is you still can't do it. This is literally

22:34

a game. It's a mean stock in a weird

22:36

way. In a weird. I don't know. I can

22:38

pin it scenario where it doubles. I can see

22:40

it getting cut by 50 percent, if not 80

22:43

percent. So this is what you do. In my

22:45

view, you buy SPY, you buy

22:47

an index fund, because if you buy an index

22:49

fund, every dollar you're buying, 24

22:54

cents on the dollar goes to the magnificent seven.

22:56

So if those companies continue to kill it, you

22:58

participate. But if the other 493 stocks have

23:00

their day in the sun and

23:02

those stocks get cut in half, you're still

23:04

OK. So you take some upside

23:07

off the table, but you save

23:09

your mental health. You know, you're participating.

23:11

And the thing about these indexes that's

23:13

so amazing is they are

23:15

a screening mechanism for the best companies. So

23:17

who gets kicked out? Kodak

23:21

gets kicked out. Salesforce gets brought in.

23:23

Right. So it's the best companies in the world you're

23:26

investing in. And they do the job of balancing and

23:28

diversifying for you. So anyway, do you want to invest

23:30

in NVIDIA thoughtfully? You don't need to know whether it's

23:32

going to go up or down. Buy an index fund.

23:34

Just buy an index fund. Good idea. Anyway, we'll see

23:37

what happens with it. It'll be interesting. I think a

23:39

lot of people are feeling as if it

23:41

had a Cisco vibe to it here, that

23:43

the tech people and that there will be

23:45

competitors. I think Apple will be involved and

23:48

lots of people involved. Anyway, let's get to

23:50

our first big story. The

23:55

Supreme Court has rejected a GOP led

23:57

suit that suggested government censored social media.

23:59

a 6-3 vote. This report said the

24:02

plaintiffs lacked standing to sue and upheld

24:04

the government's ability to talk to platforms

24:06

about content moderation. Again, with the standing.

24:08

They never really rule on the thing.

24:10

They rule on the standing. The case,

24:12

Murthy versus Missouri, came after Biden officials

24:15

called on platforms to remove vaccine misinformation

24:17

and election fraud claims. A federal judge

24:19

in Louisiana who initially reviewed the case

24:21

blocked the White House and several federal

24:23

agencies from talking to social media companies

24:25

about removing content. That judge is such

24:28

a dumbass. I'm sorry. He really is.

24:30

In general, he's got a history of dumbassery.

24:34

This is interesting. The ruling was limited.

24:37

And I think they have, there's other cases coming

24:39

up, they're going to keep trying to do this.

24:42

They're using First Amendment arguments. I

24:44

think governments should absolutely be talking to

24:46

social media companies and suggesting, and I

24:48

don't think they're under pressure to take

24:50

it down because any administration

24:52

asks for it. But the conservative judges,

24:55

some of them aligned with the liberals,

24:57

which I think there seems to be

24:59

a really interesting move of

25:01

Justice Coney Barrett who wrote the majority

25:03

opinion. Justice Alito had, as usual, a

25:05

cranky dissent saying high ranking government officials

25:07

place unrelenting pressure on Facebook to spread

25:10

Americans free speech. Hey, grandpa, he didn't.

25:12

You don't know anything about how the

25:14

internet, go raise a flag to something

25:16

because that is not what happened here.

25:18

And I don't think he even understands

25:21

online at all. I just find him

25:23

a cranky old flag raising man.

25:25

Anyway, go ahead. This was absolutely the

25:27

right decision because this entire thing was

25:30

framed incorrectly. It was framed by the

25:32

far right that we shouldn't allow government

25:34

to put pressure on

25:37

private companies to shape their narrative based

25:39

on their political objectives or whoever's in

25:41

power. That is a viable argument,

25:44

but that's not what was going on here.

25:47

This was the administration alerting

25:50

private companies that

25:52

there might be misinformation on

25:55

their platforms, potentially being fueled

25:57

by foreign adversaries. If

26:00

PropG Media, if we

26:03

found that on our site, the comments,

26:05

if anyone, the government or anyone

26:07

said, we have evidence that

26:09

there's something nefarious going on at

26:12

your company, we're not even going to tell you what

26:14

to do. We're just alerting you. Right

26:17

on. Thank you. And that's

26:19

what this was. So if this

26:21

thing had, if they decided

26:24

against the White House, then

26:26

the White House would be

26:28

prohibited from saying, okay, your

26:30

company is subject to

26:32

misinformation being fueled by a foreign

26:34

intelligence arm. They wouldn't even be

26:36

allowed to alert them to this.

26:39

So this was framed incorrectly, and

26:41

this is exactly, in my view,

26:43

the right decision. Right, but it's standing.

26:45

They didn't say, they should have just said the government should

26:48

be able to talk in cases like

26:50

this. They don't want to, they've

26:52

tried not to meddle, I guess, in a

26:54

way which probably is right, and they use

26:56

the standing as the excuse, I suppose. There

26:59

was an earlier ruling like that, where

27:01

standing was the question. They didn't actually

27:03

say the thing, and so it allowed

27:05

more cases, possibly, if they take them,

27:07

by the way. They don't have to

27:09

take these cases. But it certainly didn't

27:11

settle the issue, but it certainly slapped.

27:15

These challenges that these lunatics are making

27:17

have been slapped down by the

27:19

Supreme Court several times. So

27:22

I don't know if they're going to do

27:24

anything. I just want to note

27:26

the ruling came in on that Supreme

27:28

Court abortion case, allowing emergency abortions in

27:31

Idaho. The court dismissed an appeal brought

27:33

by Idaho officials, so a lower court

27:35

ruling remains in effect, where they can

27:37

do emergency abortions. We kind of knew

27:39

this was coming after the document tied

27:41

to the ruling was accidentally posted online.

27:43

Probably Alito was in charge of posting

27:46

it. How

27:48

should, that's a joke, how

27:50

should the Biden administration use

27:53

this ruling and their messaging? The court

27:55

did protect the ability for

27:57

doctors, so they were flying people out of

27:59

Idaho. Idaho who are almost dying. It was

28:02

just such a ridiculous emergency abortions where people

28:04

have problems or anything else and doctors were

28:06

loath to do anything for fear of getting

28:08

arrested. It's so fucked up.

28:10

I'm not going to Idaho. We're not going to,

28:13

we're not locating to Sun Valley, Scott. I think

28:15

he looks at it through the other lens and

28:17

I think he says, imagine your

28:19

wife, you're expecting a child. You're

28:21

in the final trimester and

28:23

something unfortunately, and this happens.

28:26

You know, unfortunately this happens a lot. Something

28:28

goes terribly wrong and

28:31

you have to rush your wife to

28:34

the hospital. And they say, we're,

28:36

we're sorry, but not only is, is,

28:38

you know, the baby's life in danger or

28:41

maybe quite frankly has absolutely

28:43

no viability. But your

28:45

wife is, your wife's life's in danger.

28:47

We're talking about a situation now where

28:50

they're going to let a

28:52

woman agonize in

28:54

excruciating pain and potentially die despite

28:57

the fact they know exactly

28:59

what to do. That's the world

29:01

we want. So

29:03

this needs to be forcefully in my opinion.

29:05

I do think this is something that Biden

29:08

should bring up. This is the situation while

29:11

all your billionaire friends are skiing

29:13

in Sun Valley down the

29:15

road where a woman is

29:18

taken in by her panicked husband and

29:21

is in agony. The baby's gone.

29:24

The baby's gone, but we're not

29:26

going to get to save her life. We're going to have

29:28

a woman with an in

29:30

sepsis nine months pregnant and we're

29:32

going to let her die. I

29:35

mean, that is what these fucking

29:37

weirdos represented by this

29:39

guy, 12 feet to

29:41

my left, want to make me go. It's

29:43

an eight foot. It's eight feet. Yeah,

29:46

real close. It's just eight

29:48

feet. And the catheters, that's

29:50

45 catheters away. That's 45, 47 catheters

29:52

away. Anyways.

29:57

I think there's going to be some wrangling, wrassling. There's going to

29:59

be some wrassling. I went into my urologist the other day because

30:01

I have it done to get too graphic But I had a

30:03

bit of a drip and he said once the last time I

30:05

had sex I'm like two days ago and he said is she

30:08

close and I said yeah I said I said why he said

30:10

you should get back there. I think you're beginning to come Anyways

30:13

move. Oh, oh, okay feet Eight

30:16

feet does Julia Louis Dreyfus really

30:18

want to have dinner with me? She's not coming

30:20

to stop. Not now. JL.D.

30:23

do not show up. Do not

30:25

show up. But she can handle

30:27

you. Jerry Seinfeld and that whole

30:29

gang of dudes can handle you.

30:31

Yeah, no problem. Anyway, back

30:36

to the proportions. So one of the things

30:38

you said, which I thought

30:40

was very striking and I was listening to it

30:42

again Where you said you should say do you

30:44

have daughters that that line you had like that?

30:46

That should be his last he should pause and

30:49

leave an awkward silence. Do you have daughters? You

30:51

should say do you have daughters? Do you have

30:53

wives? You know, do you have you

30:55

know, you know Do we want to

30:57

make this scenario? Do we want

31:00

to live in a country where this

31:02

will happen? And also many of these

31:04

state judges it's all men making

31:06

these rulings, which is really repulsive in so

31:09

many It's all old dudes who don't even

31:11

want to like Okay, maybe I

31:13

have to pay her for bus fare to go

31:15

to another state to get an abortion I mean,

31:17

it just this is these this is

31:20

this is film that was cut On

31:24

the editing table From the Handmaid's

31:26

Tale because they thought even this is too unbelievable.

31:28

Well now it's happening folks. Yeah, it's true It's

31:30

true. By the way Trump's I had the latest

31:32

polls. He's still ahead anyway We'll see it's it's

31:35

gotta get through this messaging has to get through

31:37

you nervous about tonight, by the way Are we

31:39

talking about that? No, I'm not watching gonna be

31:41

on a plane. I can't watch it Okay, me

31:43

and JLD are not watching we both are like

31:45

hands over eyes. I can't watch it. It's too

31:47

I don't want I can't Even

31:50

even if Trump fucks up which is my hope, of

31:52

course, I just can't it's like it's one of those

31:54

It's like a horror movie. I don't want to see

31:56

it until it's over and then I'll watch it in

31:58

clips and have other people Tell me what? I

32:01

don't know why, I just don't, I don't need the agony or the

32:03

pain and stuff like that. All

32:05

right, Scott, let's go on a quick

32:07

break. We come back, we'll talk about

32:09

Volkswagen's big investment into Rivian and should

32:11

OpenAI finally be a for profit company?

32:13

A listener challenges Scott on that. Support

32:19

for Pivot comes from Fiverr. When

32:22

you're launching your business, it's easy to

32:24

feel like you should do everything yourself.

32:26

But doing it all is just not

32:28

sustainable, especially when it comes to the

32:30

hassle of onboarding and hiring new talent.

32:32

Enter Fiverr Pro. Fiverr's latest offering is

32:34

designed to connect you with top freelancers

32:36

in just a few clicks. With Fiverr

32:38

Pro, you can have an instant team

32:40

of experts at your fingertips, plus seamless

32:42

collaboration tools to manage projects and budget

32:44

with ease. And for more complex projects,

32:46

Fiverr Pro's experienced project manager team can

32:48

select the best team of freelancers for

32:50

your needs and budget, manage deadlines, and

32:52

keep everything on track for you. You

32:54

can find AI specialists, digital marketing experts,

32:56

and anything in between. With Fiverr Pro,

32:58

you get the simplicity of getting things

33:00

done combined with the rigor and expertise

33:03

needed for your most important business projects.

33:05

Now is the time to tap into

33:07

the best freelance talent and accelerate your

33:09

growth for your business with Fiverr Pro.

33:11

Visit pro.fiverr.com to sign up and use

33:13

code PIVOT for 15% off any service.

33:16

pro.fiverr.com and use

33:19

offer code PIVOT.

33:26

Support for PIVOT comes from Center. When it

33:28

comes to tracking travel and expenses for your

33:30

company, outdated tech and manual processes can really

33:32

get in the way. That's where Center comes

33:35

in. Center is a corporate

33:37

card and connected software that gives businesses

33:39

real-time visibility into all employee spending, whether

33:41

it's on the company travel platform or

33:44

direct with airlines and hotels. It

33:46

automates traditional expensing and accounting tasks and

33:48

modernizes travel booking. It even provides finance

33:50

teams with controls and data needed for

33:52

optimal decision making. This is a good

33:55

idea. I have not turned in my

33:57

expenses for 17 years now. Monster

34:00

lets finance teams see spending as

34:02

it happens, so every swipe gives

34:04

more insight to better business decisions.

34:06

It also elevates control and agility

34:09

for market-leading businesses everywhere, the reinventing

34:11

expense management with a more configurable

34:13

and intelligent solution all delivered in

34:15

a usage-based business model with no

34:17

upfront costs, licensing, or support fees.

34:20

Visit getcenter.com/pivot to get

34:22

started today. That's

34:25

getcenter.com/pivot. Support

34:33

for this show comes from Intuit.

34:35

If you're trying to market a

34:37

small business, you might want to

34:39

try Intuit SMB Media Labs, a

34:41

first-of-its-kind B2B media network focused solely

34:43

on small businesses. The SMB Media

34:45

Labs is powered by the unmatched

34:47

first-party business data of Intuit. All

34:49

this means is that they can

34:51

connect you with unparalleled audience data

34:53

in a privacy-protected manner and can

34:55

help you reach your target market

34:57

and create scalable campaigns with accuracy

34:59

and efficiency. Learn more

35:01

at medialabs.intuit.com. That's

35:04

medialabs.intuit.com to learn

35:06

more. Scott,

35:14

we're back with our second big story. Volkswagen and

35:17

Rivian are teaming up for a new joint venture.

35:19

A Volkswagen announced earlier this week that it's investing

35:21

up to $5 billion in Rivian and

35:24

that the companies will collaborate on software for

35:26

EVs. Rivian's CEO says the money from Volkswagen

35:28

will help the company launch mid-size SUV that

35:30

will go for about $45K

35:32

and also go toward completing a factory

35:34

in Georgia. Rivian stocks surged 37% after

35:37

the deal was announced on Wednesday. Well, Volkswagen's failed

35:39

2%. Not bad. I

35:42

think it's really interesting. A Bloomberg column had the headline,

35:44

Rivian is embraced by needy German

35:46

sugar tatty. That's

35:48

good. What do you think? Talk

35:52

about who's getting the most out of partnership and

35:55

whether Rivian will finally be able to turn a profit

35:57

with his life. I think it's actually, this is a

35:59

great car. I have to say I want one.

36:01

I've never wanted a bigger

36:03

car and I would buy a

36:05

mid-size SUV from them. No question, hands down,

36:08

I think it's a beautiful car. I've

36:11

driven in it, it's a beautiful drive,

36:13

it's stylish. I

36:16

may replace the Kia with it if

36:18

they come out with one. And

36:21

everyone's hoping for lots of competition that are

36:23

viable and going through that valley of death

36:25

all these cars go to. Yeah,

36:28

and the reason, it is a great car. I

36:30

put a deposit down on one four years ago and

36:32

then about 18 months ago I got that notice saying

36:34

it's time to outfit your Rivian. I thought, well, I

36:37

need to put it off for two years because I plan to take

36:40

delivery of my foam, I think it's

36:42

foam green Rivian. Put

36:45

a mountain bike in the back which I never planned to

36:47

ride and just roll around downtown Aspen

36:49

and everyone will love me. They'll be like,

36:51

there's the guy with the great Dane who's

36:53

really good, good friends with Julia Louis Dreyfus.

36:58

But I love the car, it's beautiful, it looks

37:00

cool. I've never actually driven one, but here's why

37:02

it's an amazing car, because you pay 80,000 for

37:04

it and it costs them 120. I

37:09

mean, here's the bottom line. The

37:12

automobile business is a shitty low

37:14

margin business of massive scale to

37:17

work. And who gets, okay,

37:19

so who gets the most here? You could

37:21

argue it's Rivian because in nine and a half months they

37:23

were out of money and so they

37:26

needed a lifeline. But this

37:28

is sort of the, at least conceptually, the

37:30

idea of a perfect partnership because what

37:33

Volkswagen needed some technologies. Distribution.

37:35

Some software they needed, it's

37:38

a cool brand and the bottom line is Rivian

37:41

needs scale. They, until

37:44

they make 5X the number of these and

37:46

they have sourcing and they can

37:48

bring costs down. These companies,

37:50

automobile companies are actually really well run

37:52

companies. They have incredibly complex, robust

37:55

supply chains. Volkswagen, I think it's

37:57

either the first or second largest car company in the

37:59

world. This makes all the sense in

38:01

the world, but oddly enough, what I saw here

38:04

was a lot of connection

38:06

to the Washington Post. And

38:09

that is, I believe Jeff Bezos,

38:11

I believe unless, so I believe

38:13

the Washington Post, Amazon, and Rivian, any

38:16

meeting where any decisions actually get made, I think everyone

38:18

sort of is waiting for Bezos to

38:20

speak and then hurrying up to agree with him.

38:22

I think he basically makes the decisions for

38:24

those three companies, or at least strategically. Just

38:28

so you know, Amazon is Rivian's largest

38:30

shareholder with a 16% stake. That's

38:32

right. So it's not a control stake?

38:34

Amazon, not Jeff Bezos. Okay. Amazon.

38:37

Okay. One of these things is

38:39

like the other. Well, he doesn't

38:41

have the same control over Amazon that say

38:44

Elon has a potential. But go ahead. At

38:47

the end of the day, I think what

38:49

Jeff Bezos says or strongly recommends probably ends

38:51

up happening. And I

38:53

think at this point in his life, Jeff Bezos is

38:55

such a disciplined operator that I think a lot of

38:58

people in the Washington Post newsroom assume they'll just keep

39:00

funding democracy and our amazing journalism.

39:02

And I don't think that's how Bezos

39:04

rolls. I think it's like, unless

39:06

you're making money, or you

39:08

look great in a thong, I want nothing to do

39:11

with you. I want nothing to do with you. And

39:13

I think he thought with the Post, this is a

39:15

great brand. I can help. I'll put

39:18

in some people there and maybe we'll get it to break

39:20

even, make a little bit of money. It's

39:22

an important asset. I don't

39:24

think he's making money for most of his ownership

39:26

just until last year. Last year. Is

39:28

that right? Yeah. But

39:30

I don't think he's

39:33

interested in funding things. I think it's

39:35

very disciplined. And I think the same

39:37

decision he's made at Rivian, he's made

39:40

at the Washington Post. And that is,

39:42

unless these things have a path to

39:44

profitability and are economically viable, I'm

39:47

not going to be the sugar daddy here. No

39:50

matter how much money I have. And I think

39:52

he's basically signaled that. If he had

39:54

said to the folks at Rivian, I love this, it's going

39:56

to be a great independent company. We're going

39:58

to be one of the winners here. Fucking long, whatever he wants to

40:00

say. That's how it's done. I don't think they'd be doing this deal,

40:02

but I think you said to them, folks, you

40:05

know. Find it. Find a

40:07

partner. And here's the thing. At the

40:09

beginning of the 20th century, there were 100

40:11

automobile brands. By 1949, there were effectively

40:13

three. The

40:15

big three almost controlled it all. This

40:18

is a business of scale and even

40:20

a great car company, even a great

40:23

brand, they've executed perfectly like Rivian, can't

40:25

stay as an independent brand. It's like

40:27

magazine publishing. The independents just can't be

40:29

independent. Yeah. So I think

40:32

this is, you're right, this is Amazon's important

40:34

to it. They also own Zooks, by the

40:36

way. I think they fully own Zooks, which

40:38

is a taxi, robo, delivery kind of thing,

40:40

which is a cool. It's actually,

40:43

it's also operating in San Francisco. Different.

40:45

It's a different car. It goes backwards

40:48

and forwards. There's seats in it.

40:50

It's different shape. It's a different experience.

40:52

I'm sorry. You just described a Yugo. What

40:54

car doesn't go forward and backwards and have seats in it?

40:56

No. It looks like

40:59

a suitcase. It looks like a suitcase. It

41:02

doesn't look like a car. It looks like a, I

41:04

can't explain it. There's no front to it. Have

41:06

you seen these suitcases that you can ride

41:08

now and you see these old people riding

41:10

their suitcase? That's going to help the obesity epidemic. No. Oh,

41:14

I love that. I love a riding suitcase. It is

41:16

so... I've seen kids on suitcases. Six suitcases. Oh

41:18

no, now I'm seeing old obese people. They're like, I can't walk from

41:20

date 72 to 73. I got

41:23

to ride my Tumi luggage. Suitcase.

41:25

Just so ridiculous. With my diabetes

41:27

medication, it's like, okay. That's your

41:29

review. Maybe stuff some ozepic in

41:31

your carry-on. Okay. All

41:34

right. So what's interesting about this, you got me

41:36

off. Anyways, I'll send you a picture of a

41:38

Zug's. Anyway, they're very into this. I

41:40

think it's because of delivery and all kinds of things.

41:43

There's all kinds of elements here for

41:45

Amazon around these cars that make sense,

41:47

that makes somewhat sense to have ownership

41:49

stakes. But it's an interesting idea that Bezos

41:52

is calling the shots here, but they definitely, he needs to

41:54

stand on his own. And there is a valley of death.

41:57

Tesla went through and Rivian has to have a...

42:00

Some didn't get through, Fiskars out. Yes, some don't

42:02

get through, yeah, Fiskars. We'll see, I think this

42:04

is a terrific car and I think the guy

42:06

who runs it's really interesting. Year on year in

42:08

Q1, sales were only up 2.6%. It's

42:12

a flat, I mean, this market's no longer

42:14

growing. Hopefully it'll start growing again. One in

42:16

five public EV chargers don't work. Yeah, but

42:18

they're starting, I think this is inevitable, I

42:20

think, and I think that they, I

42:23

think this is a great company, I really do. I

42:25

really loved everything they put out, but we'll see, we'll

42:27

see, you never know. Come to Aspen, come to Aspen.

42:30

I'll pick you up in the Rivian. I'll drive in the

42:32

back of your car. I'll be driving your bike, actually. I

42:35

haven't gotten a bike in years, anyway. Let's

42:37

get to a listener mail question.

42:42

This question comes from

42:44

Phil, let's listen. Hey

42:49

Karen, Scott, I'm a huge fan of the show. This

42:51

is Phil from the great state of Texas. I

42:54

wanna challenge Scott's argument that open AI should

42:56

just be in the business of making money.

42:59

He argues it's a for-profit company that

43:01

should only focus on returning profits

43:04

to shareholders and it should not be assigned

43:06

any social or societal goal to make the

43:08

world a better place. If

43:10

that's the case, how should we look at major

43:12

news companies today? NBC, CNN,

43:14

Fox News, The New York Times,

43:16

The Washington Post, all of these

43:18

are for-profit corporations. But

43:21

yet we have also assigned them

43:23

the task of holding powerful people,

43:25

institutions, and businesses accountable. If we're

43:27

being honest, that at times directly

43:30

goes against the business interests of

43:32

the company. So two-part

43:34

question, is that conflict the

43:36

cause of the current media environment?

43:38

And then are those same dynamics

43:40

going to play out for the

43:42

artificial intelligence business? If that's

43:45

the case, many people may be disappointed.

43:47

Thanks for taking the question. Again, huge fan of the

43:50

show. Okay, I was

43:52

listening to Sam being interviewed by Lester Holt

43:55

and I talked to him too. And I

43:57

don't think it's gonna be precisely a fully

43:59

for-profit company. from what I can tell, but

44:01

I suspect, I think it's going to change

44:04

the way it thinks about itself, for sure.

44:06

And that's a good thing. I think that's

44:09

a good thing. It may still have the

44:11

cap that they have, and I still think

44:13

they'll have a much more,

44:15

a very different organization. I think he

44:17

raised the idea of more

44:20

government people, and it's going to be

44:22

a different kind of profit company, because

44:24

I think they do recognize that they're

44:26

accountable in ways that are

44:28

not like other companies, just the way

44:30

I suppose media companies

44:32

are. But Scott, what do you think? There

44:35

are certain organizations that play a really important

44:37

role in society, and media is one of

44:39

them. And I kind of like what they've

44:41

done here in the UK. They have the

44:44

BBC, and every home has a tax, and

44:46

they do their best to call balls and

44:48

strikes. And then on top of that, they

44:50

have for-profit media companies. Unfortunately, the profit

44:52

incentive has, essentially,

44:54

they've found that it's

44:56

not sex that sells, it's rage that

44:59

sells. And the ultimate way to capture

45:01

people or capture shareholder value through

45:04

media and through 24-hour news is

45:06

to inflame people and enrage them. And

45:09

also novelty and conspiracy is just

45:11

much more entertaining than actual news.

45:13

And that has a social externality. So whether

45:16

we should have government-funded news outlets or

45:19

some sort of technology that, I love

45:21

Reuters, I love AP, because they just

45:23

kind of give it to you, just

45:25

the facts, man. There is a market

45:27

for people who hit it right down the middle.

45:29

The Wall Street Journal is now considered fairly moderate

45:31

and I think does well, because people see them

45:33

as calling outside of their editorial

45:36

page. They're seen as

45:38

fairly or unfairly. I

45:40

got to say, they're doing great under this new

45:42

editor. I mean, I like that. They went outstanding

45:44

job. This new editor

45:46

is very interesting, I think. The

45:49

hard part where I push back

45:52

is the following. I totally get

45:54

the seduction, the appeal,

45:57

the vision of taking the most

48:00

capitalism creates innovation and shareholder value. We just

48:02

need to tax it and then have a

48:04

group of elected people decide what to do

48:06

with that money. I

48:08

agree with you. I agree. We shouldn't

48:10

rely on the kindness of billionaires to be good to our

48:13

society. That is one hunt. I said this actually on stage

48:15

to Brian. I was like, I really don't want to rely

48:17

on you or Jeff Bezos or anybody else to do the

48:19

right thing. And so there should be some level of regulation

48:21

because there's none. That said, I do

48:23

think certain companies and

48:25

certain areas have a little

48:28

more responsibility, I guess. I

48:30

guess I don't feel the same responsibility for

48:32

someone who's making Ben and Jerry's. And I

48:34

agree. Those are just jazz hands and they're

48:37

just sort of like a wave to being

48:39

good. And that's fine. That's marketing

48:41

as far as I'm concerned. And they can do

48:43

that. And if they're committed like Patagonia, yeah, that's

48:45

great. That's their brand too. It's their

48:47

marketing. But I do think

48:49

certain companies do have a little more

48:51

responsibility to have maybe a broader

48:55

range of people on their boards because

48:57

they have a little bit more impact. I

49:00

don't mean, I mean, it would be very difficult

49:02

to have government officials say on the board of

49:04

the New York Times, for example. But there are

49:06

certain industries that matter a

49:08

little bit more. And I think AI

49:10

probably is going to be one of

49:12

them and that they should think hard

49:14

about having more voices involved in the

49:16

governance of these things that stakeholders that

49:18

are much more... I

49:21

would say government would be one of them in these, that

49:24

they can... Elected officials that I'm

49:26

talking about elected people or people

49:28

that are appointed in some fashion. That

49:31

I think is a good idea for certain industries.

49:33

And I think AI is absolutely one of them,

49:35

especially in its early stages. That

49:37

said, it's a for-profit. It's going to be a

49:40

for-profit situation. But I think

49:42

one of the negatives about the

49:44

internet is they felt no responsibility

49:46

to the body politic and to

49:48

society whatsoever. And in the

49:50

absence of regulation, which as Scott says is

49:52

the most important thing, you're going to have

49:54

to have some influence on these companies that

49:57

is real. That is real. And I would

49:59

say that's the... board level. At

50:01

the same time, it has to

50:03

be regulation as Scott says. Sorry, Phil. But

50:06

to your point, so OpenAI has

50:08

put General Nakasone, the

50:10

head of the NSA, I believe. Right. That was

50:12

interesting. I think that's great. They should be lauded

50:15

for it. That does

50:17

not in any way reduce the need

50:19

to have legislation that

50:21

says any AI elevated or

50:23

algorithmically elevated content removes

50:26

230 protection. I think that law should be

50:28

passed. I think that is what will

50:31

actually move the needle here.

50:34

And we, again, we always

50:36

defer to, okay, let's hope

50:39

they're good people and they're nice people and they

50:41

do the right thing. And they

50:43

aren't the culprits. Them

50:46

telling us we care, as

50:48

Sheryl Sandberg telling us she

50:50

cares, is not the problem.

50:52

The problem is we believed it. And when

50:55

Exxon or Ford or other CEOs

50:57

say this, we don't believe

51:00

it. We say that's it. Right. Beyond petroleum.

51:02

That's it. We're still going to have an EPA. We're

51:05

still going to have emission standards. We're still going to

51:07

force you to crash test this car and see what

51:09

happens to kids in the back seat. But

51:12

because we've decided that innovators and young

51:14

people who are billionaires are so smart,

51:16

and because we no longer

51:19

have religious figures to idolize, we needed new

51:21

idols, and

51:23

we decided that Steve Jobs and

51:26

now Elon Musk and Sheryl Sandberg and all these

51:28

people are the closest thing we have to a

51:30

Jesus Christ. And the

51:32

only mistake or the biggest mistake is we

51:35

believe them. We're at fault for not electing

51:37

people that hold them to the same standards

51:39

as everybody else. And I hate, I think

51:41

a lot of the CSR and DEI, it's

51:43

like, I think it's a

51:46

giant misdirect. I think it's nothing but lobbying.

51:48

It's an attempt to stave off regulation by

51:50

saying, see what good people we are. You

51:53

can trust us. See, we don't need that

51:55

pesky regulation. We're not, we care. Yeah. I

51:57

agree. Yeah. I

1:02:00

wouldn't like to shine light on her. I'm sorry.

1:02:03

A lot of this is her. They innovate in the

1:02:05

size, they weigh ahead of people. I don't think people

1:02:07

aren't going to catch up. There are

1:02:09

some other options happening. I do know that.

1:02:12

But I think that this is a-

1:02:15

Other options, I mean like a turkey baster? Oh,

1:02:17

wait. No, I'm sorry. No, I'm not talking about

1:02:19

that. This is a home run.

1:02:21

Here's the thing that is problematic

1:02:24

if Trump does not win.

1:02:27

I suspect they're going to look into his national

1:02:29

security situation, like

1:02:32

whether he deserves the clearance. Now,

1:02:34

that said, he'll still be the owner and

1:02:36

he'll be he'll get enormous amount of money

1:02:38

from this. So he'll be fine either way,

1:02:40

but it could get sucked up into his.

1:02:43

If he would just shut up and run

1:02:45

good companies, it would be probably good

1:02:47

for his shareholders eventually and himself, but

1:02:50

he won't. So, but again,

1:02:52

she's, yeah, I would agree with you on this

1:02:54

one. I would agree with you. I think they're

1:02:56

way ahead and space is such an important frontier.

1:02:59

But there are, in this case, there

1:03:01

are national security implications and I

1:03:03

think he's got, I know

1:03:05

at least they're questioning those along with

1:03:07

his other probably problems under another

1:03:10

Biden administration around Tesla and SEC

1:03:13

and all kinds of stuff. So, but

1:03:16

I think it obscures her good work for sure.

1:03:18

It's about to become the ultimate

1:03:21

ingredient brand. And that is every plane, every

1:03:23

boat, every hotel you stay in, people are

1:03:25

going to start asking, do you have Starlink?

1:03:27

Yeah. What was the previous one? What

1:03:29

was the company that did a lot of

1:03:32

that stuff? Intelsat, Intelsat? Intelsat. Yeah.

1:03:35

Yeah. The one where they had a picture of someone

1:03:37

on Everest calling and I would always be like, what

1:03:40

does he say? Give me the fuck off of here.

1:03:42

This was a mistake. It's

1:03:45

cold here. Intelsat sticks in my mind. With

1:03:48

the terrestrial, yes, Intelsat combines the

1:03:50

world's largest satellite background with the

1:03:52

terrestrial network enabled customers to drive

1:03:54

revenue increase range. Eight Pakistani Sherpas

1:03:57

have died getting me up here, but it was worth it,

1:03:59

honey. Take a break.