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1:11

everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine

1:13

in the vox DOA network. I'm Khanna

1:16

Swisher.

1:17

And I had my person invaded by a man

1:19

named Doctor Joseph. he's very good

1:21

looking.

1:21

Yes. III saw that. III

1:24

you know, I had a colonoscopy. I didn't feel the need

1:26

to put it on the Twitter, but you Divide

1:28

tell us about it. Tell us about your

1:30

adventure into your colon,

1:31

Scott. Look, I I

1:33

am I've have a wonderful life. I have

1:35

people who love me immensely, and I'm gonna do

1:37

smart things. keep me around longer. And that's what

1:39

it is to get a colonoscopy. It's the third

1:41

leading cause of cancer

1:44

death or the number three cancer

1:46

killer. And it's not entirely preventable,

1:48

but mostly preventable, unlike most

1:50

cancers. And simply

1:53

put, they go in, they find these polyps

1:56

they they can turn cancerous, but

1:58

they they the good news is they grow

1:59

really slowly. So when you find them,

2:02

you just take them out. Did you have polyps

2:04

I have the colon of a supermodel.

2:06

Oh, do you? I do too. I do too. You

2:08

had a clean colon. I can't

2:10

believe you but go ahead. Hey, wish I know.

2:12

Get beef and bourbon. It's the dinner.

2:14

It I should not have a Queen Golan.

2:17

Anyways, he showed my call into a

2:19

bunch of people. He's very excited about it. And I was still coming

2:21

off the meds and we had a little party. Everybody

2:23

came in and checked out my colon. But

2:26

I did this. I I talked about

2:29

it. And the new stuff you you used to have to

2:31

drink all this horrible liquid. I've had

2:32

two of them. This is my I had my second recently.

2:34

As I'm turning, it's my birthday week, Scott.

2:37

So thank you for the birthday wishes. But

2:40

Seventy.

2:40

This is seventy. Right? Yeah.

2:42

Right. Sixty, which you're soon to be

2:44

reaching. They the prep was

2:46

great. It's just a pill. Is this your first colonoscopy?

2:49

Is this your No. I had one. I had one

2:51

eight years ago, but I forgot about the

2:54

the Niagara Falls -- Yeah. -- of

2:56

your end. No.

2:56

It's nice. you think it's nice? I felt good.

2:59

I felt

2:59

good. It feels good at first, and then you're, like,

3:02

really feel better. really afterwards

3:04

like every it's like I hit my target

3:07

weight. I'll get that's good. I've hit my target

3:09

weight. Yeah. You

3:09

know who got me to get one, I'll tell you. It's Katie

3:11

Kirk. Katie

3:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, she's the famous

3:15

colonoscopy person. She

3:17

yelled at me for a good year

3:18

to get it, and it was great. It was

3:20

good. It was It's a very good thing. Everybody

3:22

should get them. They're very easy now

3:24

except

3:25

for the pooping part, which is actually very pleasant

3:27

I found. My doctor was dreaming too. He's got

3:29

great hair. Yeah. And it go happens

3:31

really fast. And then you get beautiful pictures of

3:33

your colon. Did you get to take some home? I got to take some

3:35

home. Yeah. They give me a whole bunch. I'm gonna get them

3:37

framed. So we bring them together. It's

3:39

my Christmas card. I thought you're gonna give them to

3:41

me as a present. Okay. Get a colonoscopy.

3:44

It's easy. Right. Right. Yeah. Doctor

3:46

Joseph. Thank you, doctor Joseph and team.

3:48

Okay. Alright. We're gonna talk about a lot today.

3:50

US and China square off over TikTok.

3:53

Apple and Moore, and meta scores a big win

3:55

with the US, but a loss overseas.

3:56

And we'll speak with representative Khanna

3:58

about the Twitter files. He got

3:59

docked by Elon Musk. In

4:02

any case, the first thing I have to say,

4:04

Britney Greiner is free, and

4:06

I'm very pleased. We talked about this

4:08

last week. course, it's because we

4:10

talked about it. No. They made a deal. We're learning

4:13

details, but we're told she was isn't the

4:15

custody of US officials another president, Paul

4:17

Whalen, was not part of the deal, sadly,

4:19

as an analyst who is still in

4:21

prison there. But she's out, and that's a

4:23

great thing. She was gonna have a really terrible

4:25

life as a gay person there.

4:27

she's unusually tall. I know that sounds weird,

4:29

but she stands out and subject

4:31

to incredible working conditions where

4:33

she was in a in a work camp. And

4:35

so I just wonderful. I think

4:37

that's wonderful. I feel sad for Paul Whelan,

4:39

but there's many political prisoners

4:41

all around, but he's been there quite a while too.

4:44

Anyway, good news. You're not gonna like what

4:46

I have to say about this. Oh, no.

4:48

What? Let me just say she was incarcerated

4:51

illegitimately. I am really happy for

4:53

her and her wife. Yeah.

4:55

I would have done everything I could

4:57

have, and I appreciate that

4:59

she inspired people to

5:01

to raise awareness. I I could not be happier

5:04

for her. She was held a legitimately. Like,

5:06

we got played here because Well,

5:10

when they found, let's assume

5:12

that she did have marijuana vaping cartridges.

5:15

And I Khanna be clear, I've I've

5:17

likely traveled or accidentally with marijuana

5:19

vaping cartridges before I don't vape anymore,

5:21

but I've had marijuana on my

5:23

person for, probably at an airport. So Yeah.

5:25

I'm sure you have. She has been

5:28

she was incarcerated illegally.

5:32

If

5:33

that we they got played. As soon as they found

5:35

out who she was, they said, okay, she's from a community

5:37

of color, she's from the LGBT community.

5:40

They will be outraged. This is our opportunity

5:42

to get the merchant of death back. And -- Yep.

5:44

-- Victor Bout provided arms to the

5:46

Taliban, to Afghanistan, basically

5:49

anyone that was willing to kill Americans he

5:51

gave them the artillery and the ammunition for.

5:54

This is a very bad person who has

5:56

killed a lot of US servicemen. and

5:58

Paul Whelan served his country.

6:00

Paul Whelan was Marine. It is pretty

6:02

clear and this is on Wikipedia that Paul Whelan

6:04

was working for our security apparatus. and

6:08

was captured. And I what

6:10

I really don't like about this was all the images

6:12

floating around Twitter right now. showing

6:15

pictures of President Biden and

6:17

Vice President Harris with Brittany

6:19

Greiner's wife. And I

6:21

would like to see pictures of when they called

6:24

miss Whelan and his kids and said,

6:26

sorry, we didn't get as

6:28

much Twitter activity over his

6:30

illegal incarceration, so he's not coming

6:32

home. the reason? Not yet. No. No.

6:34

No. No. What's going on? Okay. Alright.

6:36

I'm gonna let you not go on much longer on

6:38

this one. Well, he's not coming back.

6:40

He's not on a plane to Dubai right now. Khanna

6:43

lot of thoughts and prayers right now for a former

6:45

Lorraine who's been in captivity for much longer.

6:47

Indeed. And I don't want this to

6:49

go on any much longer

6:50

I think you're making it in a zero sum game

6:52

that is not that. That's the way these

6:54

things tend to work. And that that

6:56

you have to here you are picking among

6:58

between people who are the Russians

7:00

are cynically doing this. And

7:02

so this is precisely what they want us to do,

7:04

which is argue over which one's better.

7:07

And I think

7:07

that you you celebrate your small victories

7:09

and you don't you don't like If

7:11

Paul Whelan had come home first, would you be

7:13

celebrating that small victory? I

7:14

would. I would. I would I would absolutely,

7:17

one hundred

7:18

percent. We got played. We

7:20

got played. This was a bad trade.

7:23

We got political We'll see what the details are

7:25

before we know what exactly has

7:27

happened, but I am very happy she's

7:29

home. I I too am happy she's home. This

7:31

leads to more

7:32

people from disenfranchised communities that

7:34

have been treated like shit in the US for two or

7:36

three hundred years, they will inspire

7:38

Twitter outrage get get

7:40

incarcerated again at Moscow

7:42

airport?

7:43

Well, no. I don't. I think

7:45

you're being very simplistic

7:47

about a very complex situation. But

7:50

nonetheless, we'll disagree. I'm happy to

7:52

come. I'm happy to come.

7:54

In the opposite direction, Sunny Balani

7:56

has been sentenced to nearly thirteen

7:58

years in prison. This comes after Elizabeth

7:59

Holmes was sentenced to more than eleven

8:02

years last month. During the sentencing hearing,

8:04

Balani's

8:04

attorneys tried to direct attention away

8:06

from their clients saying decisions were made by

8:08

Elizabeth Holmes. You know, he got slightly

8:10

more than she did. He he

8:12

was in charge of the lab, but he didn't have any

8:14

medical background, by the way. and

8:17

certainly was

8:18

sort of rode these employees

8:21

who were in that lab to lie

8:23

and sort of attack George Schultz's

8:25

grandson, Tyler Schultz,

8:27

etcetera. So he was more actively carrying

8:30

out things, but he's sort of blaming

8:31

her he's gonna appeal

8:34

presumably, but it

8:36

seems like

8:36

it's relatively equal Senate's. Relatively

8:39

equal sentences. I think

8:41

this may this makes Right? They couldn't send

8:43

the woman to prison and have the guy

8:45

that kinda did the same thing, get

8:47

get any less or so.

8:49

I mean, we've said a few times, it's the CEO,

8:51

but it looks like they were kind of literally

8:54

sort of partners in crime here and partners

8:57

in big quotes. I thought it was

8:59

just inappropriate. They were having a relationship.

9:02

III don't know. The whole thing just stinks

9:04

-- Yeah. -- and -- Yeah. -- and I I

9:06

think it would have been outrageous had the one, you

9:08

know, the person with the ovaries gets a prison

9:10

sentence, but not the dude. She was the

9:12

CEO. But, I mean, him trying to

9:14

say she was they were they

9:16

were in it together, decision made by Elizabeth

9:18

Holmes. And she was, of course, doing the same.

9:20

He had a hold on her. They were

9:22

partners, and they're both gonna

9:24

jail relatively

9:24

same times, they'll probably get out a little earlier,

9:26

both of them. And and so

9:28

it seems like fair, and it seems like

9:30

this particular trial

9:33

showing that you can't commit fraud on

9:35

investors. Of course, it wasn't

9:36

about patience. They didn't have

9:38

that case. It was about

9:39

these investors. being defrauded. It was

9:41

a pretty straightforward

9:42

case, and and there they go, off

9:45

to jail. We'll see if they if they

9:47

get allowed to appeal or anything else, but it looks

9:49

like a pretty solid case. against

9:51

both of them. And then there are more

9:52

mysterious departures at Salesforce.

9:54

Salesforce is a sponsor of ours. But

9:56

nonetheless, we're gonna talk about them. It seems a little

9:58

messy there. Last

9:59

week's co CEO, Brett Taylor, announced his

10:02

departure from the company. And

10:04

now Tableau CEO, Mark Nelson and

10:06

Slack CEO, Stuart Butterfield's they're

10:08

out too. I know they are close to Brett Taylor,

10:10

myself. I think the moves are connected.

10:11

Spooked investors, Mark

10:14

Benioff, who was found to the company and

10:16

it's been a sort of a big force there. This

10:18

is his second co CEO who was

10:20

left. He had a guy named. I think it's

10:22

Kevin Block. many years ago. He was gonna be

10:24

co CEO. It didn't happen. There there's

10:26

a lot of discussion about that they're not

10:28

keeping up with the with the rest of the industry

10:31

in terms of results. Shares,

10:33

the company are down about eleven percent in the

10:35

last five days and fifty one percent for the year

10:37

hitting its lowest point since March twenty

10:39

twenty. It seems a little chaotic.

10:41

this trying to find a an

10:43

heir or, you know, someone who's gonna take

10:45

over after Mark Benioff who is a,

10:47

you know, a very charismatic CEO.

10:49

Apparently according to The Wall Street Journal, Brett

10:51

spent too much time with other CEOs and

10:54

not with the engineering and product

10:56

staff. And

10:58

so

10:58

more and more is gonna come out, what's going

11:01

on. But he's got to really

11:03

find a plan.

11:04

Scott? This was really shocking to

11:06

me. III when Brad Taylor stepped

11:08

out, really shocked me because he was

11:10

arguably I mean, he was definitely in line, the heir

11:12

apparent to be the CEO, but really

11:14

important company to go

11:16

run a startup. That was truly

11:18

shocking to me. And it

11:20

also it's a pretty negative

11:22

forward looking indicator on the company

11:24

and to be blunt on mark because

11:26

when you're about to hand keys and Brett's still

11:28

a fairly young man to a really important

11:31

company. And he decides to leave.

11:33

You know, he either doesn't like the

11:35

company or either maybe personally, he just

11:37

was started getting along. gotten

11:38

along. I they had they had a good relationship, but it

11:40

sort of got tense. And including the Twitter

11:42

stuff, he was a chairman of

11:44

Twitter and, of course, he that that took up a lot of

11:46

his time. So I

11:48

think we'll see a lot more here what's going on.

11:50

But, yeah, you're right. It's it's not a good

11:52

symbol, except for when the other two

11:54

from companies they bought in twenty twenty,

11:56

the end of twenty twenty. Led by Brett, Salesforce

11:59

acquired Slack

11:59

for more than twenty seven billion dollars.

12:02

Investors worried they'd overpaid for

12:04

it. And so, you know,

12:06

there's obviously a link between

12:08

Stewart and Brett, presumably. So

12:10

it's, you

12:10

know, he's got a lot on his hands here. He

12:13

doesn't have strong executives. It's

12:15

a not never a good sign. This reminds me of a little

12:17

bit of Disney when some of those people

12:19

left. Well, let's let's take a moment to bring

12:21

this back to me. Sure. I

12:23

did I did my prediction stack

12:25

yesterday. Yeah. And I would like to go through, like,

12:27

what are black swan events that could happen in twenty

12:29

twenty three? And one of the black swan events I came

12:31

up with is, what if cloud just

12:33

doesn't doesn't have the growth we all think it has.

12:35

What if what if cloud based

12:37

technology across Azure

12:41

Google Cloud, AWS, and

12:43

all these, you know, Snow every kind of cloud

12:45

based company, what if all of a sudden we find out that

12:47

the budgets The corporate budgets

12:49

for cloud are not infinite and

12:51

begin to flat line and even decline. That

12:53

is where you see the NASDAQ really

12:56

throw up because so many

12:58

high flyers are

13:00

based on they go, well, it's a cloud based

13:02

company, and the cloud is a gift that keeps on what

13:04

happens when stops giving. And

13:06

it Salesforce is a cloud

13:08

based company, and they start you said

13:10

the stock's gotten cut in half.

13:12

And what you gotta look

13:14

at is when senior management

13:16

starts leaving, I mean, sometimes the

13:19

CEO of the companies that are acquired, I was the

13:21

CEO of a company that was acquired by Gartner.

13:23

I lasted fourteen months. I was supposed I

13:25

left a lot of money on the table. I just

13:27

couldn't stand being there. No no fault to

13:29

Gartner. I just it's just a cultural clash.

13:31

Yeah. Mhmm. But so I understand

13:33

Khanna, but Brett Taylor leaving to go

13:35

do a start up. I thought, well, maybe he just wants to hang

13:37

out with his family. He's made a lot of money.

13:39

He's going to do a start up.

13:41

So there's definitely

13:44

issues here. And to your point, I think you're

13:46

exactly right. More is gonna come out.

13:48

Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about

13:51

tensions. This is not unusual, by the way. I

13:53

co CEOs, I hate them.

13:55

Like, it's just it sets it up for

13:57

either make someone CEO or,

13:59

you

13:59

know, but

13:59

you leave the room if you're

14:01

especially when you're such a charismatic and

14:04

big voice. as Mark

14:06

Benioff. Right? There's no way you can. he's also

14:08

a big man. I know it sounds silly,

14:10

but he's a he's a force.

14:12

Mark's got a lot on his hands. He really does. especially

14:14

as we had it continuing to head into

14:16

headwinds here. And he's got a lot of competition.

14:19

Speaking of sponsors who regret their advice,

14:21

adds from High profile

14:23

brands including Uber, Amazon, and Snap have been

14:25

appearing in White National's Twitter profiles,

14:27

at least one of these profiles was previously

14:29

banned in two thousand and thirteen. One of them

14:31

is particularly terrible. The Daily

14:33

Stormmer guy, Elon Musk has brought back thousands of

14:35

band accounts. A former Twitter employee told the Washington

14:37

Post the profiles would need to be flagged to prevent

14:39

ads from appearing on them. Actually, I've spoken to

14:41

people at these companies. They were assured

14:43

by Twitter. They tell me every one of

14:45

them that this would not happen, that there

14:47

was brand safety. This would never

14:49

happen they made these ad buys

14:51

recently, and this happened. They're

14:53

all gonna cut ads. I

14:55

mean, they couldn't believe it. They couldn't

14:57

they were shocked. And, you know, hot

14:59

mess not even a hot mess, just a mess.

15:01

This was a they assured us

15:03

this wouldn't happen. Now it's

15:05

happened. Not good. none of

15:07

them were happy people at these companies.

15:10

Well,

15:10

I

15:11

got it wrong. I said that when you lay off

15:13

seventy or eighty percent of your staff, the site's gonna go

15:15

down. There's just no way DOA what's

15:17

actually happened here is that it ends up that

15:19

the dozens or hundreds of people escorted out

15:21

of the building on the content moderation team

15:23

that they were actually doing things. the

15:25

new content moderation team is a guy named

15:27

Milan Musk. And one, he

15:29

has absolutely no idea what he's doing and

15:31

is not capable you're going to see this

15:34

happen everywhere. And within six

15:36

weeks of the acquisition, fifty of the hundred largest

15:39

advertisers have taken their ad budgets

15:41

to zero. which means the other fifty have

15:43

likely decreased, which means the biggest

15:45

advertisers are soft seventy to eighty

15:47

percent. If that's a proxy

15:49

fit, I'm I mean, you've never seen

15:51

distinct of this being a

15:53

terrible acquisition, distinct of all

15:55

the noise, the news here, it a

15:57

company that was doing five billion in revenue?

15:59

Is probably now

16:01

doing one? I mean

16:04

Yep. first time ever, I noticed ads on Twitter,

16:06

which is interesting. Yeah. I've never noticed them

16:08

either. But I

16:09

okay. Here's what I have. This weird air

16:11

air product that you go into your ear, it

16:13

looks like thing you collect

16:15

spaghetti with, and it it pulls

16:17

dirty stuff out of your ear and it pulls dirty stuff out of your ear and it

16:19

pulls dirty stuff. I know. But it was

16:21

like And then there was a noisy

16:23

DOA a real oral sounds of a noisy,

16:26

super rough document. That's becoming fox.

16:28

There was another the ads on fox

16:30

versus something. Wouldn't

16:32

pet carvings

16:33

a game that you play called

16:35

Super Winter. And then this very

16:37

weird Pilates challenge, I'm

16:39

like, I keep taking pick of them because

16:41

I'm like, what is this? Really

16:43

bad. These people were furious.

16:45

Furious. Anyway, let's get to

16:47

our first big story.

16:52

The

16:52

US Divide is growing and it could swallow

16:54

the tech industry. First Apple is ramping

16:57

up efforts to move it supply chain out of USChina. We've

16:59

talked about that to Vietnam, India after

17:01

a rocky fall that saw worker protest,

17:03

Apple's Chinese production facility,

17:04

the uprisings, China's strict

17:07

COVID measures which have been lightened now

17:09

suddenly this this last day or two

17:11

have created supply chain

17:13

delays for products like the iPhone Pro.

17:16

Now Apple's telling suppliers to prepare for assembly

17:18

outside. There's obviously it's gonna

17:20

be more difficult to operate in those things.

17:23

And also, there is just so you know, Chinese

17:25

activists were are currently I think they still are

17:27

staging a hunger strike outside of Apple's

17:30

headquarters there. urging the company to

17:32

remove restrictions of airdrop in

17:34

China. So, you know, people

17:36

are trying to escape to get back to their

17:38

hometowns. It's not great. for

17:40

them. And, you know, it's a very

17:42

tough situation there. Now, again,

17:44

China just announced in the last few days that

17:46

the lifting of

17:48

quarantines and strictions, etcetera, etcetera, and taking power

17:50

away from local local

17:52

officials who have been very crackdowny,

17:54

and they're gonna pull that off. There's still

17:56

quite a few rules happening there,

17:58

but it's much less so. It's sort

17:59

of maybe us a year ago,

18:02

essentially. What do you think?

18:04

Yeah. This is every

18:07

board or every company I'm involved

18:09

in that had woke up whether

18:11

it was during COVID and you realize that

18:13

when the COVID when there were outbreaks

18:15

and toll shutdowns in China and all of a

18:17

sudden, you you know, five hundred or five

18:20

fifty stores no longer have tops because

18:22

they were all being produced. We

18:24

became way too concentrated in

18:26

terms of supply chain.

18:29

And it And first, it was COVID. Now,

18:31

there's there's more of an existential risk, and

18:33

that is we didn't see this company. But

18:36

she used to be China to the government

18:38

was very kind of not pro democracy

18:40

but pro capitalism. Khanna. shifted.

18:43

And he's III think it's just

18:45

fascinating. I think they look at the US and

18:47

go, okay, the dollar is

18:49

sending to a superior position

18:51

than the government. and that your tech

18:53

innovators can shit post the

18:55

government, your kids become addicted to

18:57

social media out

18:59

the company is becoming more powerful in terms of their

19:01

command of data. He just said, you know

19:03

what? Not here, girlfriend. We're done.

19:05

We're not going that way. And we

19:08

didn't expect them to do that. And the reason why

19:10

the Hang Seng and Chinese stocks were so

19:12

traded at such incredible

19:15

multiples is that the second most profitable government in the

19:17

world was the wind at their

19:19

back. And now it's the wind in

19:21

their face. The government has said,

19:23

we are not opting for the dollar.

19:25

We are going to force We're

19:27

gonna turn off social media for

19:29

kids except for one app. They

19:31

can quarantine you. We're gonna quarantine.

19:33

Yeah. And it's

19:35

caught American and Western companies

19:37

totally flat footed. And

19:39

Tim Cook, as always, who's playing chess,

19:41

not checkers here. has been working on this

19:43

for a while. It's gonna cost them tens of

19:46

billions of dollars. It's gonna hit their

19:48

margins. And it's the smart thing to

19:50

do. They'll they will

19:52

leave enough in China such

19:54

that if she or anyone in

19:56

China starts putting demands on Apple, he

19:58

can say, well, we hope you

20:00

don't decide to do that. But if you do,

20:02

we're just fine will ramp up

20:04

and India will ramp up in Vietnam,

20:06

so they won't totally exit. And

20:07

the US, let's remember. The US eventually,

20:10

these do take a while as many people point

20:12

out to me. With the Chips Act, Biden

20:14

was in Arizona where TSMC is

20:17

building a chip manufacturing fabs. for

20:19

clients including Apple and Nvidia. Tim

20:21

Cook was there too. So he's placing

20:23

bets all over the place. It'll be you

20:25

know, I still think they have lingered in China

20:27

far too long and allowed themselves to

20:29

be exposed. Including selling

20:31

into the market, same thing, you know, there were there were

20:33

stories about Tesla not selling

20:35

enough Tesla's in China. They're

20:37

both they're the two most exposed

20:39

companies in China. Tesla denied

20:41

these reports,

20:42

but if people

20:44

aren't outside, they're not buying car, Tesla's,

20:46

and stuff like that. It's a

20:47

really interesting thing to pull away

20:49

from this incredible manufacturing

20:52

you know, juggernaut of USChina. And I think that's gonna be

20:54

hard to

20:54

replace because these other countries just don't have

20:56

the infrastructure or

20:58

the government that can control

21:01

it and quite the same way. So it's be more

21:03

expensive. It's gonna be more difficult. They've gotta

21:05

now negotiate

21:06

with all these new players. it's

21:08

gonna it's gonna raise the level of complexity

21:10

rather significantly. But I mean, this

21:12

brings us back to just how

21:14

what a shit show is

21:18

Elan musk right now. Okay. So USChina.

21:21

China and Tesla, it's I think it's like a

21:23

quarter of their sales and some forty percent of

21:25

their cash flow. It's their growth

21:27

market. manage that with Apple. It's not unusual

21:29

to have done that. But go ahead. Yeah.

21:32

Okay.

21:32

Tim Cook isn't isn't in charge of

21:34

content moderation for Snap right now.

21:36

and kicking off and on. I

21:39

mean, it is so

21:41

insane and ridiculous. The big

21:43

story here isn't all this

21:45

bullshit. Noise, of Twitter and

21:47

moderation. It's the fact that

21:49

Tesla is about to pay

21:51

a huge price and has become

21:53

infected with must ridiculous

21:55

behavior at Twitter. The fact that

21:57

he's like unlike Tim Cook isn't focused

21:59

on very

21:59

important issues for the Golden Goose,

22:02

in China. Here's the problem, though, for him there.

22:04

Let me say, how he can't sell more cars

22:06

there if they're under strict quarantine. Now

22:08

now

22:08

that it's lifted, that might change. One of

22:10

the things that someone was rightly

22:12

pointing out to me is that this has a

22:14

tamped down consumption across the

22:16

globe and so prices will rise if

22:18

China gets out of their compartments.

22:21

we're gonna see a rise in energy prices, a

22:23

rise in all kinds of things because they

22:25

Khanna demand there. And and

22:28

so you this would make sense that if he's trying to

22:30

sell cars in China, you you could see Apple

22:32

selling more iPhones if people are home, but cars

22:34

not so much. And so, you

22:37

know, a smart bet to have been

22:39

there. I think the

22:39

problem

22:40

is the quarantine and the

22:43

shutdowns have affected him

22:45

very strongly. And again, the company's utterly

22:47

done buying this. A CEO at the end of

22:49

the day is supposed to their

22:52

job is to make is to make better

22:54

decisions allocating finite capital.

22:56

they have finite investment capital Khanna they

22:58

have finite human capital and they

23:00

have their own finite capital. And so

23:02

the notion, we're so used to letting

23:05

these idles of ours do anything. The fact that

23:07

this individual, given the

23:09

incredible importance of Tesla globally, the

23:11

incredible issues Tesla

23:13

faces, including the ones you've outlined,

23:15

is now the new head of content moderation

23:17

at Twitter, and that's where he's spending all

23:20

his time. Where the hell is it

23:22

supported Tesla? Well, there are executives at

23:24

Tesla. There was a really great profile. I think in the

23:26

information about the guy who's actually running. He's sort

23:28

of a mini Elon over there at Tesla, and he

23:30

he's got Gwen Stottwell at SpaceX who's been

23:32

doing a good job. So he may say,

23:34

I'm over there and I've got great executives.

23:37

which may be the case. So that would be his excuse. And they

23:39

should make that person CEO. Nate,

23:41

yes, co CEO. Yeah.

23:44

That's Yeah. But the the good news

23:46

is in China, they are loosening restrictions

23:48

on lockdowns. Those

23:50

protests appear to have paid off. We'll see

23:52

what happens. Same thing in Iran. That's another place where you're

23:55

gonna see a lot of action, I think. Meanwhile, in

23:57

America, the deal between the Biden administration and

23:59

TikTok is delayed again over

23:59

security concerns you as officially

24:02

said to be worried about the algorithm

24:03

manipulation and data sharing. They've got

24:05

a

24:05

thread very carefully here and do the right do

24:07

do it right. State governments start waiting for

24:09

the Fed to take action last week republican governors, of

24:11

course, because it's a great topic for them in

24:14

Maryland and North Dakota to have both banned

24:16

TikTok on some government devices. I

24:18

mean, I listen, I've talked

24:20

to several different I

24:20

was with a bunch of government people, and

24:23

someone asked about TikTok. They're like, we're not putting

24:25

TikTok

24:25

on our devices. Divide you kidding

24:27

me? These are broadened people.

24:29

Wisconsin's congressional representatives have called

24:31

on their state's governors to do the same.

24:33

You know, they've got they gotta reach

24:35

this deal, especially when the Republicans control the

24:37

house, they'll do, I'm sure, some sort of

24:39

hearing. They love they're gonna love to do hearings. This would

24:41

be one of them on the top. So it's they've got

24:43

to come to a conclusion of that deal or

24:46

somehow just make a deal with TikTok.

24:48

Yeah. One of my predictions yesterday, I

24:50

think TikTok gonna breach a trillion dollars. I

24:52

think it's gonna be the fourth most valuable company

24:54

by the end of twenty twenty

24:56

three. And there's so much money on the

24:58

line here. that I think they will come to

25:00

some sort of accommodation or deal. There's

25:02

so much value here. Well, Beijing

25:04

doesn't Khanna be pushed around, you know, and

25:06

they're worried about protecting their

25:08

the intellectual property of the thing. And and most people

25:10

who know this company said they're not gonna

25:12

they're this is their golden goose, and they're not gonna

25:15

let Americans regulate

25:17

their company. Well, but here's the thing.

25:19

And I'm not sure it's again, I think we

25:21

might do a bad deal among

25:23

Gen Zia Millennials. two

25:26

thirds

25:26

of Gen Z would rather

25:29

have TikTok than

25:31

all of cable and

25:34

streaming television. If they were presented with a

25:36

choice, you can either have TikTok or you can have

25:38

basically anything that comes through and

25:40

if everything from Netflix to app, take

25:42

it off. All of it. two

25:44

thirds of them chose TikTok,

25:46

and fifty three percent

25:49

of of of of millennials

25:51

chose TikTok. So TikTok right

25:53

now across this emerging cohort

25:56

who advertisers are

25:58

obsessed with. who are gonna be

25:59

coming into their priming and commercial years

26:02

would rather have

26:02

TikTok than basically the rest of

26:05

media. I mean, it's

26:06

just it's

26:09

It's TikTok is the most

26:11

ascended, not media. It's the

26:13

most ascended company in

26:15

history in terms of its velocity. And

26:17

Whether it be good idea bad idea, I think when you have this

26:19

many young people that's addicted to a product, when

26:21

you have this much money on the line,

26:24

they're gonna figure it out.

26:26

No.

26:26

Alright. Okay. We'll see. I mean, I think they the Biden restriction

26:28

has

26:28

to tread very carefully here for a lot

26:31

of reasons. I like them to ban it. I just don't

26:33

think they will. There

26:34

won't. There won't. know, Marco Rubio wanted to do that. Trump

26:37

had talked

26:37

about it, but actually wanted to have a sweet deal

26:40

for Oracle. But

26:42

we'll see. I mean, there's gotta be

26:44

some solution here because it's got

26:46

these

26:46

technologies that's very valuable. It's a very

26:48

valuable you know, I always say when I talk

26:50

about TikTok, I'm like, aside the Chinese

26:53

government, and it's really and everyone laughs

26:55

because you really can't. Anyway, it's a really

26:56

for a moment. If you're in for

26:59

a moment, Alright.

27:00

Right. The daily stormer guy

27:02

on Twitter, it's quite an enjoyable. No, it's

27:04

not. It's got weird ads for cleaning

27:06

out your ears. I'm surprised I haven't seen a colon at on

27:08

Twitter. Anyway, alright, Scott, let's go on

27:10

a quick break when we come back.

27:13

Facebook says no news is good news

27:15

and we'll speak with Congressman Khanna

27:17

about his emails.

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29:13

Scott, we're

29:15

back like most

29:18

users Facebook will not pay for news. This

29:20

week, Congress killed the journalism competition

29:22

and preservation actives. been pushed by Amy Klobuchar,

29:25

Senator Klobuchar, the bill would have

29:26

allowed media organizations to collectively bargain

29:28

for rev share deals with tech giants like

29:31

Facebook, META was so opposed to Bill, announced that

29:33

it would stop posting news on its American platforms

29:35

rather than pay publishers. Consumer

29:37

advocacy groups wade in USChina

29:39

the bill as well saying, could harm content

29:41

moderation in small publishers. This

29:43

thing is probably not gonna happen.

29:45

This company this is something that happened in your

29:48

in Australia. passed along like this, but they did

29:50

have

29:50

Rupert Murdoch. You know, it was really pretty much

29:52

the one pushing for it. Facebook did

29:54

stop briefly hosting news there. and

29:56

reached a deal. With the government, it pays Australian news

29:58

publishers that it wasn't going

29:59

to do this here

30:01

in this country. I think you have a better

30:03

sense for this than I did. What are your

30:06

thoughts? thought

30:06

it was problematic back in Australia. I was like, why

30:08

are they paying for it? I mean, III get the

30:10

I don't wanna paint their fans, but publishers can

30:12

make these decisions themselves.

30:14

right, of whether to be on it and whether they get

30:17

efficacy out of it. A lot of them were paid by

30:19

Facebook in this country and

30:21

elsewhere. I

30:21

remember when they came to me to try to pay me to be

30:24

on Facebook and I'm like, why do you have to pay

30:26

me? Like, I thought it was weird.

30:27

Right? They that they did that. If it

30:29

is either good for me or bad for

30:31

me. Right? Or I can make money off or I can't. And

30:34

so I never really loved the Australia

30:36

one. I was not, you know, even though it's

30:38

really irritating that Facebook makes these

30:40

declarations of stop

30:42

hosting news. Their argument, of

30:44

course, is that they're helpful to news

30:46

people. They they they provide

30:48

distribution. I was trying to think of where people could

30:50

go if you're a news publisher. Someone asked

30:52

me a pretty prominent news publisher. I was like,

30:54

where do we go? And I'm like, well, TikTok's got

30:56

the Chinese government and Facebook, you

30:59

know, you know, it doesn't really work and you end

31:01

up not in charge of your data as

31:03

much. And Like, there aren't any

31:05

alternatives. Right?

31:06

There just aren't. III couldn't think of one. And

31:08

I was thinking,

31:08

oh, I should call Scott and ask him. You know, I

31:10

I think it's quite hard to

31:13

figure out where you go, but

31:14

I'm not sure why Facebook would pay

31:16

them at all. I just I

31:18

don't

31:18

understand it. I mean, I like

31:21

to I I think they should be able to collectively get together and negotiate

31:24

different things. But

31:26

why?

31:26

Like, necessarily. I

31:29

mean, Facebook's in the catbird seat here. Yeah. It

31:31

doesn't make any sense. It would Khanna be like

31:34

forcing

31:34

taxing Tesla and then

31:37

and then taking those subsidies and shifting them

31:40

to traditional Detroit automobile

31:42

companies. It's like you're taxing you're

31:44

taxing the ones that are more successful

31:47

to try and maintain the less

31:49

successful. And the difference here is that the

31:51

less successful play a really important role in our

31:53

society. The number Journalism been cut in half the

31:55

last thirty the number of PR and

31:57

comps people who want you to

31:59

have dinner with some CEO

32:01

to hear their vision on technology.

32:03

has gone up sixfold. So the ratio

32:06

of bullshit spin to

32:08

journalism has gone the wrong way twelve

32:10

x. Right? So you can

32:12

see the need what Rupert Murdoch

32:14

played it perfectly to basically put

32:16

a tax on more successful media companies

32:18

to subsidize his. So

32:21

that it just kind of if you're

32:23

a capitalist, it doesn't make any sense. I think what

32:25

they should DOA, and I don't know if you can target these

32:27

new media companies. I do think should be

32:29

paying their fair share of taxes, which they don't. But

32:32

I'm actually now a fan of

32:34

what the UK does. And as they

32:36

place the tax on households, to

32:39

sponsor the BBC, which does its

32:41

best to call balls and strikes. Because the

32:43

reality is really

32:45

hard hitting fact

32:47

checking fact checked journalism

32:49

that attempts to

32:51

that attempts to do long form,

32:53

thoughtful, important journalism gumption journalism.

32:55

It's a shitty business. And I

32:57

do think that there's a social good and we should come

32:59

up with a way to subsidize it and have

33:02

two layers, have a subsidized

33:04

layer of media, and then the

33:06

private media on top of it. But

33:09

this if you're a capitalist,

33:11

it's really hard to see the

33:13

logic it's it's kind

33:15

of like, They're the bad guys. We're the

33:17

good guys. Let's tax them and pay

33:19

us. It doesn't I don't I think it's

33:21

very hard to argue this. Yeah. It's

33:23

interesting.

33:23

Let me read Amy Klobuchar's statement,

33:25

continuing aligning the who is the backer of

33:27

the key architect of this bill. And

33:29

this would just so you were the she

33:31

argued that it would help small local journalism

33:34

survive if they could band

33:36

together. I'll I'll comment on that second,

33:38

continuing allowing big tech companies to dominate

33:40

policy decisions in Washington is no longer

33:42

viable option when it comes to news,

33:44

compensation, consumer, and privacy rights. online

33:46

marketplace, we must

33:47

get this done. You know, it was being put

33:49

in a bill, a defense bill, all kinds of

33:51

things. It it's interesting Canada and New

33:53

Zealand are considering similar measures Australia

33:56

passed it, but one of the

33:58

things that's it's such

33:59

as

33:59

Facebook that opposed it. It it feels

34:02

kind of funny. And one of the things

34:04

there's a real bifurcation between

34:06

powerful media companies like The New York Times, which I consider

34:08

a monopoly at this point, right,

34:10

versus these small sites. they're they'll

34:12

just be bullied by the New York Times. Right? Although, by the

34:15

way, today, New York

34:15

Times reporters are on strike, which

34:18

is interesting, and I can't believe it got

34:20

to that. for the day, their

34:22

twenty four hour strike they're doing

34:24

over their contract. But they they

34:26

really do I don't see

34:27

it helpful that small companies

34:29

can

34:29

join with Khanna New York Times. Right? So that's true. They've worked

34:31

out for twenty four hours. Yeah. Twenty four hours. Oh,

34:34

that'll take time. You know what?

34:35

They that's what you do. That's what they do. They're

34:37

gonna put it on the the Internet

34:38

social reporters do not or not in the union. Anyway, they gotta do something.

34:40

It's been like a year. It's been like a long time.

34:42

This is what you do, Carrie. Get another

34:46

job. Okay.

34:47

Alright. Now anyway, you answer union person

34:48

problem is that nobody has

34:50

alternatives

34:50

to distribute their work

34:52

and small operations don't have the

34:54

money

34:56

to do news websites that will

34:57

attract, reach, and everything.

35:00

And so one of the two dozen

35:02

groups said, JCPA,

35:04

the name of the bill, would make miss

35:06

and disinformation worse by allowing news websites

35:08

to sue tech platforms, reducing

35:10

a Stories reach, and intimidating them

35:12

moderating offensive and misleading content. I I've never been very comfortable with this

35:14

bill. I have not. I and you

35:17

know, Amy, Klobuchar talked about

35:19

it on stage, and I

35:21

felt it was a

35:22

lot of overreach. I can't believe I'm bookering with

35:24

Facebook, but I do. I do. I

35:26

did at the time and I still do.

35:29

It feels funny. it feels funny.

35:32

Well, it's the wrong legislation.

35:34

There should be legislation saying that you're

35:36

responsible when we can

35:38

reverse engineer team depression to

35:40

the actions or lack thereof

35:42

of a media company

35:44

irresponsible that when you license your IP to

35:46

an over and Facebook doesn't

35:48

do this those when you license your IP to a foreign entity such that you

35:50

can charge the domestic entity ten billion

35:52

dollars and thereby suppressing

35:54

revenue, top line revenue and a

35:56

low tech domain and increasing revenues artificially

35:58

in a high tax domain. That's pure

35:59

taxableings. I just we need

36:02

legislation that

36:04

is equitable, not like, oh, we like that. We don't like them. We're angry

36:06

at them, so we're gonna come up with weird legislation

36:08

to sort of counter to our boundaries.

36:11

Senate's privacy legislation. That would be

36:13

and, of course, center coverage of antitrust legislation, things like that.

36:16

Anyway, one of the things is there's pressure to find

36:18

more alternative

36:18

revenue streams to watch

36:21

post may spin off publishing software. The post has been

36:24

struggling at and they're tech person

36:26

who Do we know anyone that works at the

36:28

Washington Post? We do. We

36:30

do. Give us a little pillow

36:32

talk. I think that they're struggling.

36:34

I think I don't even know what it is. I've never heard

36:36

of

36:36

this. This published software they have. They've

36:38

done a lot of interesting publishing software, and

36:40

they under this guy who just literally

36:42

just left. A lot of tech people have

36:44

just left there recently because they wanted to spin

36:46

it off and, you know, be able to compensate

36:48

people. It's hard to have these software

36:51

and technology things within a company. But they've

36:53

been doing a lot of different some of which has

36:55

worked. There was one called Zeus that didn't really work very well. But Bezos

36:57

is allowing them to do these things

36:59

and spend some money.

37:01

But gonna thrive within a media company.

37:04

It's just not the same incentive. So I

37:06

have a story

37:06

about this. I just thought of

37:09

it. when I was on the of the New York Times, we owned

37:11

about dot com. And about dot com DOA one

37:13

point was worth a billion

37:16

dollars. And about dot

37:18

com was really hot at one point. It was. It was a content

37:20

farm where you come to it. Yeah. There's a shitty

37:22

product, but go ahead. It was it was

37:24

anyway, it was a content farm

37:26

where someone someone would write great

37:28

content or marginal content on southern

37:30

cooking. Mostly marginal. DOA traffic.

37:32

they run ads against it. They pay Google to get traffic and they do an arbitrage.

37:35

And we thought it was a hard

37:37

company and we loved it or management loved

37:39

it because they got to accessorize

37:42

their analog outfit with digital earrings and say we are

37:44

an Internet company. And I said,

37:46

in a board meeting with the about people, I

37:48

said, do you think we should spend about

37:50

dot com. And I thought management at the time was gonna reach it.

37:52

They were so visibly shaken that I actually

37:55

asked that in a board meeting. because

37:58

I'm like, why do we own about dot com? Just so Janet Robinson can get

38:00

on an earnings call and say that fifteen percent of

38:03

our revenue comes from digital. And

38:05

they absolutely should have spun it. It had no business

38:07

being inside the New York Times. The editorial could

38:10

not have been more different.

38:12

And and immediately, I was

38:14

a costed out side by the

38:16

management of about dot com that said, thank

38:18

you. They all wanted their payday. Right? They

38:20

all wanted to be an Internet company

38:22

with their own options. and Janet

38:24

and Arthur were just so incensed that

38:26

I would bring this up. Anyways, we ended

38:28

up selling it like two years later for two hundred

38:31

like for a fraction of that.

38:33

when Google said, you know what? We're doing

38:35

a panda. Midnight tonight. Remember?

38:37

Remember Khanna?

38:38

Yeah. Yeah. Basically,

38:40

they they said, we have figured out about dot com the arbitrage that you're doing,

38:43

and we figured out a way that we're

38:45

gonna capture those revenues. And

38:47

overnight, our revenues were down like sixty percent and we

38:50

ended up selling for scrap to Barry

38:52

Diller. Yeah. There was a

38:53

whole bunch of demand. Remember demand? Yeah.

38:55

That's right. flat. talked to

38:57

Richard Rosenblatt at the time. That was another one. Demand was lot like about

38:59

and they they got killed by

39:01

the panda. The

39:04

panda I

39:05

remember that was two thousand eleven, everybody, the

39:07

Khanna. Oh my god. I spent so

39:08

much time talking about that. It was

39:10

ridiculous. Last thing, Fayetteville

39:12

is not gonna get off easy in Europe. regulators.

39:14

The European data protection board has reported a rule that

39:16

Facebook can't run advertising based on

39:18

users personal data. This this is where

39:20

this hurts. This is where it hurts.

39:23

The board instructed the Irish regulator to issue a

39:25

hefty fine along with this decision. The ruling

39:27

won't be publicly revealed for at least a month in

39:29

which MediC could appeal. This is their whole

39:31

business model, obviously. And so

39:34

the EU is

39:34

striking where it hurts. Right? Everyone was looking

39:37

for reasons five years ago to have a photo op

39:39

with Sheryl and say that they were part of

39:41

the Pepsi generation and past

39:44

legislation that helped our innovators, it is

39:46

entirely flipped. Everyone's looking

39:48

for reasons to go after,

39:50

especially, especially matter right now.

39:52

Yeah. Yeah. I would say, US should be focusing on privacy, antitrust,

39:55

etcetera. Although, Facebook wouldn't be

39:56

subject to the anti trust bill

39:58

that's in our

39:59

Klobuchar past, Alright.

40:03

Let's bring in our friend of pivot.

40:10

Commerceman

40:10

Raucona represents California's seventeenth congressional district, which

40:13

includes much

40:13

of the Bay Area. This week,

40:15

the congressman's twenty twenty emails,

40:17

his email address, his

40:19

personal address

40:20

showed up in the Twitter files, urging

40:21

the social network not to censor

40:23

the Hunter Biden

40:26

laptop story. Welcome,

40:27

congressman. Thank you. Thanks for having me back. So I will brought you

40:29

here because apparently you've been

40:30

docked by Elon Musk. I Khanna

40:34

talk about what you wrote to Twitter at the time when this Hunter Biden

40:36

laptop story

40:37

happened. But talk to me, has there been

40:39

an impact if you had to change

40:42

your email? What's happened is your your email appeared

40:44

on Twitter in some documents that

40:46

were released around the Hunter Biden

40:48

story. And you wrote

40:50

an

40:50

excellent email to Vijaygade

40:52

about what they were doing at the

40:54

time. But have you had to change your email? I

40:56

haven't had to

40:57

change my email. I did

40:59

get a lot of emails

41:02

when that happened a few hundred. But I've

41:04

taken some security measures to make

41:06

sure that the account doesn't get hacked.

41:09

you know, I think that time we

41:11

probably wanted to show that it was actually my account

41:13

Khanna that's why they put by email out

41:15

there. Yeah.

41:16

Did you like that? Were you

41:18

irritated? you

41:18

know, being a member of Congress is a pretty privileged position. I

41:21

didn't hear as much for me, but

41:23

I thought it wasn't appropriate for some

41:25

of the more junior staff

41:28

people at Twitter. I mean, I think there should

41:30

have been more care on that. Howard Bauchner: Yeah,

41:32

absolutely. But let's get

41:33

into what you said. You

41:35

said Twitter was violating first amendment principles and

41:37

banning not the first amendment because it's a government

41:39

thing and banning New York Postal about

41:41

Hunter Biden's laptop as we said

41:44

Twitter is a private company. Talk about why

41:46

you wrote that email and explain it a little bit

41:48

for people. Howard Bauchner: Well,

41:48

I think the easy thing for people to default

41:51

to is to just say, well, we're a private company.

41:53

The first amendment doesn't apply. Well, obviously,

41:55

but Twitter is the modern public square.

41:57

And the question is, what valued judgments are they

41:59

making to

41:59

allow for all types of speech. I

42:02

think they made the correct decision not to

42:04

have the explicit

42:06

uninvited photos out there. That doesn't serve any value.

42:08

And I said, fine. But to

42:11

take down the

42:13

New York Post story. I mean, look, the New York Post is no

42:15

friend of mine. If you google Raucona New York Post, you'll just see

42:18

negative articles. But I would never think

42:20

of saying, let's block the

42:22

New York post or not have the New York

42:24

post. And so I think that they just went

42:26

too far in

42:28

taking down some of the

42:30

accounts that we're sharing in New York post

42:32

article. And that was not a good look

42:34

for Silicon Valley, and

42:36

it's not the type of public square square

42:38

we want. And why did you write? Why did you write it? I I wasn't

42:40

surprised necessarily, but that what

42:42

caused you to write it at the time because they

42:44

had been in it. I just

42:46

interviewed you Roth, and he said

42:48

one of the reasons is because they had

42:50

PTSD from the Hillary Clinton emails, where they

42:52

felt they did get played by foreign

42:54

governments. And so they were on high alert and so was

42:56

everybody and this could have been that kind of

42:58

situation. It could have been,

42:59

although this one was a

43:01

a newspaper putting

43:04

this out I mean, which could be sued for defamation, and Twitter doesn't

43:06

even have liability there. But III

43:08

reached out privately. I didn't even do

43:12

it publicly. I reached out privately because I I thought

43:14

that this is not

43:16

something that Silicon Valley should be doing.

43:19

I was hearing a genuine chatter about it

43:21

in the holds in congress,

43:24

and and I obviously care about the

43:26

Valley being thoughtful

43:28

and being stewards of democracy. And I I thought, let

43:30

me at least make them aware that

43:32

this is not a good policy.

43:35

I think they were surprised they

43:37

thought I was probably reaching out to to get

43:39

them to remove it, and I

43:41

I had the opposite perspective. And

43:43

and to their credit, they eventually

43:45

did reverse the the distance. Very quickly. Very

43:48

quickly. They reversed it. No. Representative. It's

43:50

great to see you. Good to

43:52

see you. The

43:53

argument you made that Twitter is

43:55

the fact public square DOA made

43:57

a lot. I think

43:59

we would argue that it's the private square. But, anyway, your argument is

44:01

a valid one. A valid one. What do you think so far of

44:03

the content moderation approach

44:06

of Twitter since

44:08

the acquisition? Well,

44:09

I think there's some things they've done well, which is to get rid of

44:11

the bots or to make an effort there. I

44:13

think Musk's statement that he doesn't want

44:15

any amplification of hate is

44:18

promising, but the question is who's going to implement it.

44:20

But there are other places where, you know,

44:22

they it's the jury's still out.

44:25

Like, they're all of these really

44:28

extremist groups trafficking in

44:31

hate that are based

44:33

on my knowledge still out there.

44:36

And and and Musk has said he doesn't want

44:38

them to be going viral or amplifying

44:40

it. So the implementation of that

44:42

has to still

44:42

And he's also let on. He's let on people previously banned. If

44:44

you had to write that email again, what

44:46

would you write to him about

44:50

letting you know,

44:51

the dairies daily stormer guy back

44:53

on, etcetera, etcetera? Well, I

44:55

would I would say that for

44:57

people who are

45:00

trafficking clearly, and blatant hate

45:02

and that that is the primary thing that

45:04

they're doing or or in things that are

45:08

inciting hate. that is not part of

45:10

the public square.

45:12

That doesn't need to be part of it. Even if

45:14

there's some of that, it may be

45:17

tactically protected in the first amendment, I

45:19

would say, Twitter can have some

45:21

judgments that don't have that

45:23

as part of their conversation.

45:25

I view that very, very different as a

45:28

newspaper article that's criticizing

45:30

a presidential candidate.

45:32

Right. Right.

45:32

do you put any credit in the fact that they were worried about

45:34

getting played by foreign governments when they did

45:36

that? And I think that they still are

45:40

under that. that threat is

45:42

that they can a lot of stuff can be

45:44

cooked and put up there even if

45:46

it's done by a a valid newspaper in

45:48

the United States. Yeah. I

45:49

guess I'm not sure that that should be

45:51

their responsibility. I mean, I I don't

45:53

think they need to be fact checking the

45:55

New York Times and the

45:57

Washington Post and the near post. I mean, and all

45:59

the

45:59

media publications about whether the

46:02

media is being played.

46:04

I I think that that's a

46:06

sufficient amount of

46:08

of of betting. Not not

46:10

to say that those are good stories or

46:12

stories about me that have been written by the newer

46:14

post that I think are false or

46:16

but but

46:17

they're not they're not defamation.

46:19

They're they're within the bounds of

46:21

public debate. Yeah, it's

46:22

interesting. New York Post said Jeff Bezos

46:24

might be the father of my son, but

46:26

he's not. which I thought was amusing,

46:28

but it wasn't amusing. It was irritating. But

46:30

you're right, I I didn't do anything about

46:32

it and nor could I When you think

46:34

about first

46:35

amendment, principal. So you don't think these companies should

46:37

be doing anything. So you're you're kind of on the

46:39

idea of let it flow, like, which is

46:41

what Elon is saying. Is that is

46:43

that tenable in today for a company certainly could be problematic

46:45

for a business, but you think should

46:50

not get near it, get essentially near any of this?

46:52

Well, no, I I think that there need

46:53

to be standards on on safety.

46:55

So certainly, the incitement

46:58

of violence that even Brandedberg doesn't allow that that shouldn't be on

47:00

the site. I I and

47:02

and in citing illegal conduct.

47:06

I think there need to be disclosure laws. So if we

47:08

need to be knowing what they're doing

47:10

in terms of who they're allowing

47:13

on the platform, And I would say that when Elon has

47:15

said that you shouldn't be amplifying hate and the hate

47:18

doesn't have a space

47:20

on the platform, that seems to me a

47:22

thoughtful guideline, but then

47:24

it has to be implemented. And it seems to the

47:26

question is how is it being implemented and why are

47:28

some of these people who are just trafficking

47:31

in in in in white supremacy

47:33

and all still being on the site. because that

47:35

that to me is not speech. I mean, there you

47:38

can have even in a

47:40

town hall you can have reasonable restrictions. Right? So I just

47:42

think of it as a sort of a town hall I'm doing.

47:44

If someone got up to me in my town

47:46

hall and

47:48

said, You know, Congress for Canada, there was this article in New York Post that

47:50

says that president Biden is implicated in

47:52

x, y, and z. I wouldn't ask

47:56

the police didn't squirt them out. I would answer the question.

47:58

If someone got up there and

47:59

started spouting, you

48:02

know, anti

48:04

semi to the rhetoric or or racial rhetoric, I would ask

48:06

them to leave. And I guess my view is that's

48:09

the same sort of criteria for

48:12

Twitter. Representative,

48:13

you served on the House Committee on Armed

48:15

Services, and I immediately had to look up

48:17

and on Wikipedia what

48:20

they're curious addition is, but they among

48:22

other things, they oversee detainee Affairs

48:24

and Policy. And I was just

48:26

curious if you had any thoughts on our prisoner

48:29

swap this morning. Well, I

48:30

give the president and secretary Lincoln a

48:33

a lot of credit for

48:36

having secured the

48:39

the release and obviously, you know,

48:41

you have to to have diplomacy. We had

48:43

to give up AAA

48:46

prisoner. My understanding is it was someone

48:48

in Russian arms trafficking,

48:50

but I think that they made the right decision

48:52

to to secure in the release. And it

48:54

also shows, frankly, you know, I was printing

48:56

sides for saying that we need to maintain

48:58

diplomacy and diplomatic channels with Russia, but I think

49:00

it shows why we don't.

49:04

Scott,

49:04

DOA you want to follow-up there? Scott does not

49:06

have this opinion? Well, my my fear

49:08

representative is that that this

49:11

was very strategic. that they incarcerated miss Granite knowing that

49:13

they wanted this merchant of death back and that we've

49:16

been played. And that there's

49:18

no moral clarity around these types

49:20

of things. But over time,

49:22

what we – unfortunately,

49:24

I think we've done is just guarantee that

49:26

more people from communities disappointized

49:29

communities are gonna be incarcerated. I think this is a bad deal for the US

49:31

long term, but I'd I'd love to hear your thoughts.

49:33

I know this is scary

49:36

gray. I hear

49:37

the perspective. I understand your

49:40

concern. why we

49:42

typically say we don't Khanna negotiate with

49:44

terrorists and aren't going to

49:46

engage in these kind of swaps. In this

49:48

case though, I think that

49:51

the humanitarian concern outweighted.

49:54

I mean, politics is never perfect, and

49:56

I give the president credit, but

49:58

we have to be sensitive that

50:00

this doesn't become a pattern Khanna

50:04

I I hear your point. I don't think

50:06

it's an easy easy answer, but I

50:08

I do give the president credit for this.

50:10

Alright.

50:10

I'm gonna move on to the privacy bill, and you always joke with me about it. It's not gonna

50:13

get passed. It's gonna get passed. So if had

50:15

passed the privacy bill

50:18

years ago, it probably should have. So how do we get to one?

50:20

How do we place limits on how long companies can

50:22

retain user data? How do we

50:24

mandate end to end? encryption, what are the

50:26

actual chances

50:28

of a strong privacy bill ever emerging from

50:30

Congress. We have a bill that's passed as,

50:32

you know,

50:33

in the House -- Yeah. --

50:36

finally. we should just pass it. Look, I I know this is popular

50:38

among some of my California colleagues. There's

50:40

a sense that California's regulation is

50:42

Khanna. and

50:45

I agree with that that let's try to get as much of California in,

50:47

but ultimately something strong is

50:49

better than nothing. Khanna don't

50:51

do it in the lame duct, we're gonna get

50:54

very unlikely we're gonna get it in a Republican

50:56

house with a a Democratic Senate's.

50:59

So I I think we can't let the perfect be the

51:01

enemy of the good, and there

51:03

are strong provisions in the in the privacy side.

51:06

will it

51:06

pass in the lane, Doug? I

51:08

hope so. I mean, I you have people like me coming out, not that I'm on

51:10

my voice is is determinative. But

51:12

if a few more California members

51:14

start coming out for it, than

51:17

it than it can. But I I think it would be a

51:19

real missed opportunity, something that passed the

51:22

committee fifty five to two, doesn't

51:24

pass? Doesn't pass. So you've also

51:26

called for a new federal agency to

51:28

protect

51:28

regulation. Is that a way to go

51:30

with this? Is there anything wrong with our current system

51:32

that combines the FTC, FCC DOJ, state

51:35

regulators, congressional laws. you think

51:37

there's the the idea of a

51:39

federal tech agency for tech

51:41

is very controversial? here's

51:43

why I think it matters, Kara. because you know

51:45

as well as I that these tech companies

51:47

often run circles around the regulators. Yes. We Even

51:50

though we have any law

51:52

requiring consent, they'll figure out how to

51:54

have the check button bright enough

51:56

in the right place on the screen and they do

51:58

the dark patterns. So I think it

52:00

requires people of real tech legal competence

52:02

to regulate tech. It requires

52:04

Congress to have regulation, but I think we

52:06

need an army of better

52:08

equipped tech

52:10

regulators. And that's no knock on the people there. They just

52:12

don't have enough staff. They don't have

52:14

enough technical expertise. So

52:18

that's why I've called for this. Now, what agencies

52:20

it's under, I'm open to? An

52:22

agency, a new agency, a

52:23

new federal agency DOA

52:25

No. I think it could be part of the FTC. I

52:28

think it could be part of the FTC. Or

52:30

it could be some agency

52:32

that FTC with four

52:34

FTC, FTC, FTC, and DOJ

52:36

to to report to. But I which I think call

52:38

it. Department of Information is not

52:40

a good one. FTC's department

52:43

technology department. You know, we created this

52:45

with the chipset at the NSF for

52:47

a positive reason. We created the

52:49

NSF tech director. and that

52:52

was to help science

52:54

funding be commercialized into technology.

52:56

This would be for helping the

52:58

regulators figure out check how to how

53:00

to regulate technology?

53:01

Khanna of this? That

53:03

this one is harder because

53:05

this requires spending. and I don't

53:07

think the Republican is gonna expand

53:12

government oversight. Ironically,

53:13

some of their concerns

53:15

would be better met if they're really

53:17

concerned with big tech if they had a

53:19

strong FTC. Something just shocked

53:21

us not getting more coverage. I'm curious

53:24

what your thoughts are regarding president

53:26

Biden's proposal to move South Carolina

53:28

up to be the first state that holds

53:30

the primary for the presidential

53:32

race. Yeah. you know, I mean, here's the thing with South Carolina. Someone was

53:34

telling me Jamie Harrison was actually telling me

53:36

this, which I didn't know. forty

53:38

percent of

53:40

black slaves came through the Port of Charleston. So there's a

53:43

huge symbolic place

53:46

that South Carolina has in

53:49

our nation's history. And III

53:52

have no problem. I think if with it being

53:54

first as long as you also

53:57

have Nevada, New Hampshire, and

53:59

I

53:59

think the three of those put together

54:02

where you have a population

54:04

that is La Quinta,

54:06

Asian, a white working class

54:08

population in New Hampshire, and a black a

54:10

significant black population in South

54:12

Carolina would be great. I think not having

54:14

the three would be

54:16

problematic. And I I don't think it really

54:19

matters whose first or whose three

54:21

days

54:21

after. Yeah. Alright. Let me ask you now,

54:23

Glenn, you're you're a member of the House Progressive caucus. Where are

54:26

progressives right now? It would seem to be the

54:27

election was very

54:30

much like We like the middle. The voters were like, we like we don't like

54:32

the election deniers. We

54:34

like the competent people in the

54:35

middle kind of thing. How do you look at

54:37

the progressive agenda going

54:40

forward? Well, the president

54:42

basically implemented a lot of the progressive agenda,

54:44

so they liked the agenda enough.

54:47

I mean, the American Rescue Plan had a lot of

54:49

progressive ideas in terms of the child tax

54:51

credit. The chip sack I wrote as a

54:53

as a as a progressive

54:55

wind centered consumer. The climate bill was progressive. The

54:57

president forgave student loans. That was progressive. The

55:00

president made a decision

55:02

on marijuana. So I I think

55:04

that you're right that and and the

55:06

abortion issue, I think, is a I mean, that's a

55:08

beyond a progressive issue, but it's Senate's

55:10

issue that obviously progresses

55:12

or stronger. I I guess what I think

55:14

the voters were saying is, yes, we wanna protect the women's right to choose. Yes, we wanna

55:17

protect democracy, but we're

55:19

still concerned about the economy. Khanna

55:22

then the question's gonna be for the next two years, what are

55:24

we gonna do on the economy? And I still think progressives

55:26

have good ideas of that. Should a progressive

55:28

candidate primary Biden in twenty

55:32

twenty four? No. No. I mean, that's everybody has done

55:34

well. He's achieved things. You've

55:36

got Trump to scientists at lurking

55:38

out there. you know, I

55:40

think that I've said this a number of times that

55:42

I think that the time for the Democratic Party to have

55:44

the fight about the future is twenty twenty

55:46

8II think we Khanna to

55:48

have this president succeed as much as possible.

55:50

I have

55:50

a last question Scott may have one

55:52

more. It's Jack Jersey called on Elon. I get

55:54

back to the what happened with your stuff. you

55:57

your your emails were released. He called on England to release everything without filter,

55:59

presumably meaning more emails. Do you

56:01

support that given the privacy stands like

56:03

you these are these

56:05

are letters wrote to a company they're owned by a

56:08

corporation. Should that be sort of the

56:10

way corporations operate with

56:12

radical transparency? Is that

56:14

even possible? you

56:16

know,

56:16

I think in this case, if there

56:18

are emails from people

56:21

of significance and then you

56:23

Khanna have that transparent. It's

56:26

probably for the good. I don't think

56:28

I I know that I try to assume

56:30

anything I write on email anyway, eventually.

56:34

Well, will get out, doesn't say that mean that I

56:36

haven't written bad bad emails.

56:38

But I think that that's

56:40

different than

56:42

taking information

56:45

from someone on privacy. Right? Like,

56:47

when we write a letter to someone, which

56:49

is what an email is, Khanna can't

56:51

really say, well, they took that letter and they shared it with someone else. I

56:53

mean, you're sending a letter. There no

56:55

expectation necessarily of

56:58

of privacy. But

57:00

I think that there has to be a sensitivity

57:03

particularly for those people who are in lower

57:06

level

57:06

positions and they shouldn't be

57:09

opening up, I think, people's inboxes

57:13

without consent the

57:15

company had clear sees all that. And

57:18

what did you think of what came out so far? I know there's Twitter files too coming, but Twitter files

57:20

one was not particularly good movie.

57:22

It showed a group of people struggling.

57:25

You're gonna go with No. I mean, I I seen your commentary

57:28

on it, and I I tried to share that

57:30

view that there wasn't some there it

57:32

wasn't that there were be there

57:34

were some smoking gun that, you know, they were

57:36

being pressured in a in a

57:38

nefarious way to to hand bite

57:40

in the the the

57:42

election. I mean, I think that they're so I didn't see

57:44

that being a a smoking gun. I did see

57:46

this genuine

57:48

debate about where the

57:50

what the first amendment principles should

57:52

be about and speech should be about.

57:54

And I I think to be said that

57:57

it has open up

57:57

that debate in this country, the Twitter files, I think

57:59

that's

57:59

a good thing. But I didn't think it was

58:02

a gotcha moment as

58:04

much as this is a new form. We've got to really think what the rules of these

58:06

forms are Khanna be that respect

58:08

different people. I will say this, I was surprised that

58:10

how the

58:12

conservatives have who have criticized

58:14

me in the past liked my

58:16

stance on this. Yeah. Your favorite. And

58:18

I and I think it and made me think

58:20

that it's not about a hundred button, and it's not about the

58:22

like laptop. And it's not about Biden. What's going on in this country is there

58:24

are too many times where we try to silence

58:26

people we disagree with. We try to

58:29

condemn people we disagree with. we

58:32

try to act as if, sort of, we're morally superior than people

58:34

we disagree with. And I think some people

58:36

were just like, thank thank you for

58:38

believing that you can have honest

58:42

disagreement in this country and that someone

58:44

doesn't have to be morally inferior if you

58:46

disagree with them. And I think to the extent we can

58:48

have more of that spirit in this

58:50

country, we we can have

58:52

some chance of getting past the culture

58:54

wars, which have really polarized

58:56

the nice Well, I think we'll end on that.

58:58

Rocana, hero of conservatives. It's really great to hear. Rocana

59:00

is on Twitter at rep Rocana

59:03

Khanna you can find his email address in the Twitter

59:05

files. If you need to do it, he still

59:07

hasn't. We really appreciate it. Please write him as many of

59:09

you as possible and

59:10

say hey. There you go. say,

59:12

hey, hero of conservatives. Anyway, thank you. There there goes

59:14

my South Carolina bid. Alright. Okay.

59:16

Alright. Thank you, Cognizant. Thank

59:19

you, representative. Alright. Scott, one

59:22

more quick break. We'll be back

59:24

for predictions.

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Okay, Scott. Let's

1:01:13

hear some predictions. Let's hear

1:01:15

one from you. did

1:01:18

predictions webinar yesterday.

1:01:20

Thirteen thousand people, Kara. Very nice

1:01:22

day. How many

1:01:23

did you get for your colonoscopy?

1:01:26

Slightly fewer.

1:01:28

Slightly fewer. But they had

1:01:30

soft gentle loving hands. And

1:01:32

it was twenty twenty three is gonna

1:01:34

be just as whatever the metaverse

1:01:37

or crypto, twenty twenty three is gonna

1:01:39

be the year of AI. I think at my

1:01:41

long shot acquisition here, I think

1:01:43

Disney could acquire Roblox. just Iger's

1:01:45

Iger's been He's not gonna be doing too much,

1:01:47

but okay. He's gotta do something. He's gotta

1:01:49

do something big and bold camera.

1:01:52

The current

1:01:54

model he's gotta he's gotta do something

1:01:56

big. And he's got the license to do something

1:01:58

big because he has so much credibility.

1:02:01

So this my thinking. Just as their acquisitions have

1:02:04

been to take characters

1:02:06

from subscale companies like

1:02:08

LucasFilm or Pixar and bring

1:02:10

them into the parks, and monetize them

1:02:12

all sorts of ways through content in the

1:02:14

parks. I think that they could go the other

1:02:16

way here and take Disney to

1:02:18

roadblocks and create

1:02:20

the Disneyverse. Yeah.

1:02:20

He remember he talked about that. He talked about the the worries

1:02:22

about Facebook's version or other people's version

1:02:24

because

1:02:24

he was worried about things that would happen

1:02:26

to their characters. But go ahead. Well,

1:02:29

fifty percent of American youth are on

1:02:32

Roblox. So what if they've figured out

1:02:34

a way to take all those incredible characters that

1:02:36

they have at Disney right now and put

1:02:38

them on Roblox? So and

1:02:40

because Robox stock, like every other stock,

1:02:42

it's off fifty or sixty percent it's got a market cap,

1:02:44

I of eighteen billion. And I

1:02:46

think Disney's one sixty or

1:02:48

one eighty, For the first time in a long time, Roblox is quote unquote

1:02:50

acquirable. Anyways, my long shot long ball

1:02:52

here is disney acquires Roblox. Yeah. And

1:02:54

using Tesla.

1:02:54

This is the year. This is the year. Right?

1:02:56

Yeah. This this this anyways,

1:02:59

as you said, my waterloo and

1:03:01

my final prediction was the

1:03:03

US reasserts its dominance and hedge money.

1:03:05

If you look at everything

1:03:08

geopolitically, food independence, energy

1:03:10

independence. Our economy appears to be growing

1:03:12

again and we're

1:03:14

reducing inflation. our vaccines are working. The smartest people in the world

1:03:16

wanna come here. I we're kicking the

1:03:18

shit out of Putin in a proxy where without

1:03:20

putting any boots on

1:03:22

the ground. I just think the US right

1:03:24

now, if you look at it honestly, as much as we

1:03:26

dislike each other, as much as we want the

1:03:28

situation around and to ship post America

1:03:30

or feel bad about ourselves.

1:03:32

America has pulled away from the rest

1:03:34

of the world on almost every

1:03:36

important dimension. Yeah. We

1:03:37

will see the only issue is, look, people are getting

1:03:39

wary

1:03:39

of funding in Ukraine all the

1:03:42

time. I think there's statistics showing that.

1:03:44

I do think China coming

1:03:46

online, it's gonna raise inflation.

1:03:48

That should decrease inflation.

1:03:49

Well, maybe. If they get the gunk out of

1:03:51

a supply chain, that should lower cost,

1:03:53

I think. That but also, they have energy

1:03:56

demands. Energy prices

1:03:56

could go up, stuff like

1:03:58

that. And their their

1:03:59

demand economy now and that they're a

1:04:01

food demander by the way. So food prices could

1:04:04

go up. They they're they're an importer of

1:04:06

food now. So we'll we'll see. I

1:04:08

agree with you. I think things are going well for

1:04:10

the vitamin situation at this moment. What did I get wrong there? Do you do what do you

1:04:12

very much agree with or very much not agree

1:04:14

with? I think Disney is a a tough

1:04:16

role for

1:04:18

mister Iger. I don't think he's gonna be able to do a whole lot. I think it's gonna be he's

1:04:20

gonna be doing a lot of cutting is what he's

1:04:22

gonna have to do in consolidating more

1:04:26

than anything. But, you know, that sounds like a good acquisition. I don't think they're

1:04:28

gonna be acquired. That's a big rumor that

1:04:30

was out there. Anyway, we wanna hear

1:04:32

from you, send us your questions

1:04:34

about business tech or whatever's on

1:04:36

your mind, go to n y mag dot com slash

1:04:38

pivot to submit

1:04:38

a question for the show or

1:04:39

call 85551 pivot.

1:04:42

Before we go, we're nominated for

1:04:44

best co hosts For the signal award, you can vote for us. Go to signal

1:04:46

award dot com. Find the link

1:04:48

to vote for us in our show notes.

1:04:50

Okay, Scott, that's

1:04:52

the show. We'll be back

1:04:54

on Tuesday for more. Read

1:04:55

us out. Today's show was produced by

1:04:57

La Arena, Menven Engle, and Taylor Griffin, Ernie,

1:04:59

Inter Engineering, this episode. Thanks also to

1:05:01

Drew Burrows meal of Ariel. Make sure

1:05:03

you subscribe to the show wherever you listen podcasts. Thank

1:05:06

you for listening to Pivot from New

1:05:08

York Magazine and Box Media. We'll be back next

1:05:10

week for another breakdown of all things tech in

1:05:12

business, I have the colon of

1:05:14

a supermodel.