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to your local agent today. I.

1:19

Everyone this this cave it from New York

1:21

Magazine In the Box Media podcast network. I'm

1:23

Kara Swisher and I'm late today because of

1:25

Scots friend Jonathan Height. We were chit chat

1:27

and about his book. The Anxious Generation says

1:30

Scott got anxious which is his state of

1:32

play. Hello Scott. How are? I'm glad to

1:34

see who's good Finally getting a little bit of press

1:36

on his book. The yeah. I

1:40

was great. It was a great discussion guns your

1:42

colleague he likes you a at all. So.

1:45

Anyway, how you doing. Really well weekend

1:47

of football I went through assume our

1:50

to the first call those on a

1:52

manner where some what's that it's all

1:54

the pro clubs or have these kind

1:56

of our jobs and the Cotswolds that

1:58

are very. fancy and

2:00

nice and you can take walks

2:03

and all sorts of... I don't

2:05

know how to describe it. It's like

2:07

Soho Farmhouse, you know what Soho Farmhouse is? Yeah. It's

2:10

like those that get even fancier.

2:13

Wow. I've tapped into this list of

2:15

A-list gay friends and they're just so

2:17

fucking fabulous and in such great shape.

2:19

It's very intimidating. Is it? Why? They're

2:22

just impossibly good looking and successful. They're

2:24

beautiful. They have... Hold on, I'm getting something that

2:26

I just got in the mail. They're

2:28

impossibly good looking gay men. This is

2:30

Algebra of Wealth, a simple formula

2:33

for financial security, Scott Galloway.

2:35

That's right. It came with a pin that seems

2:37

to have fallen off with a little money sign.

2:39

That was cute. Dad, he needs the

2:42

Benjamin's for the male pros. Yeah. Anyway,

2:44

so you like the gays. I

2:46

had a nice... You know, I did

2:48

my Jennifer Aniston... Oh, yeah. ...Reece Witherspoon

2:50

interview. You sent me pictures. I didn't recognize

2:52

who they were. What? I

2:55

didn't recognize them. I

2:57

just saw that they've clearly... I didn't know

3:00

that they have adopted an 11-year-old boy... Oh,

3:02

wait. That was you. Never

3:04

mind. Never mind. Yes, they're quite beautiful

3:06

and gammon, as they say.

3:09

And I'm not gammon, is the word.

3:11

You're looking good, right? Most

3:13

importantly, are they hot? Do they look good in person?

3:16

They do indeed, and they're actually lovely. I would say

3:18

I was going to focus on them. Who cares? Talk

3:21

about their hotness. They're quite beautiful. Yeah, they are good

3:23

looking. Okay. And also, super

3:25

sorry. Reece Witherspoon could

3:27

run a corporation. Boys, she knows

3:30

a lot about AI and not-safe

3:32

knowing, actual knowing. And

3:35

I did the whole cast of The Morning Show,

3:37

which you like and I like, on stage at

3:40

the Paley Center. Who's the biggest surprise there

3:42

in terms of how interesting they are in terms

3:44

of character? Oh, Tig Notaro, who plays the... Who's

3:46

that? Tig Notaro plays the Chief of Staff to Jon Hamm,

3:48

the lady who tells them to get focused and

3:55

stop smiling, and she's the Chief of Staff. She's

3:57

the famous stand-up comedian.

4:00

And she's playing a dramatic role here and

4:02

she's fantastic and very funny, very funny, but

4:04

she was, she's, the whole cast is great.

4:07

It's hard to do a panel of like

4:10

nine people or ten people and then

4:12

right next to you is sitting Reese

4:14

Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston. So it's,

4:16

it's a little bit disconcerting, but it worked out

4:18

well. It worked out well. Good. I'm

4:21

glad that sounds like fun. Yeah, it was. It

4:23

was really fun. And let me just say just

4:25

today, let's have a shout out to Alex Wisher's

4:27

birthday. Happy birthday, Alex. Well, you know,

4:29

it's not like you to bring your kids into

4:31

the podcast. Oh wait, it's been a week. Oh,

4:33

stop it. They're the best. They're so good. So

4:36

great. Anyway, so we've got a

4:38

lot to get to today though, including Donald Trump's

4:40

hush money trial. It's getting underway

4:42

in the late, latest trial, latest earning news.

4:44

Plus our friend of Pivot is New Yorker

4:47

writer Charles Duhigg, which this is a cool

4:49

book called another popular book along with Jonathan

4:52

Hight's book, Super Communicators, How to

4:55

Unlock the Secret Language to Connection. But

4:58

first, we have a lot of things to talk about. Barry

5:00

Diller is hoping to turn the Daily Beast around with new

5:02

leadership. The publication hasn't made a profit since its start in

5:04

2013. And Diller

5:06

has considered selling it. He's bringing in

5:08

former president of Disney ABC television group,

5:11

Ben Sherwood, and former chief content officer

5:13

of hers, Joanna Coles, who called me

5:16

just a second ago, but I haven't talked to her about it. Sherwood

5:19

and Coles will get equity states for half of

5:21

the Daily Beast and receive salaries. Coles

5:23

will be chief creative and content officer,

5:25

and Sherwood will become his chief executive

5:27

and publisher. Diller

5:30

wrote me a while ago to ask if I knew of

5:32

any editors, which I didn't. And

5:34

I know they lost their CEO and stuff like that. Will

5:37

this work? I mean, these are very long

5:40

time professional media people. They're friends of ours.

5:43

Ben is not necessarily a friend of ours, but Joanna

5:45

certainly is. Yeah, I'm doing a call later this

5:47

week with Joanna, and I assume it's to talk about

5:49

this. I'm a big fan of Joanna's. I would

5:51

just look at this as a startup that has a

5:53

brand with some awareness. When

5:56

I first heard about it, it felt like, okay, when

5:58

I hear that... Rush or

6:00

UB40 are still touring. I get excited and

6:02

think, do I really care? Is there any

6:04

value there? The Daily Beast, the

6:06

Daily Beast brings some awareness and nothing else. But

6:10

having said that, Joanna's talented. I assume

6:12

that Ben is talented. Barry's obviously a

6:15

talented person. So I just think

6:17

of it as a startup where

6:19

they're adopting a brand that has

6:21

some awareness, but trying to resuscitate

6:24

or find some sort of new strategy. The

6:27

Daily Beast is worth nothing but its

6:29

brand value. And its brand value is only

6:31

worth its awareness. So it's a startup is the

6:33

way I see it. Talk about that

6:36

idea of reviving brands versus just starting

6:38

afresh. Because you've seen puck happen or

6:40

the information, et cetera, or others

6:42

over the many years that are

6:44

new. Well, okay, so

6:47

name something you purchased previously. Name

6:50

the last thing you bought where you had never heard of

6:52

the brand before. A puck. Puck.

6:55

Okay, you had heard of the brand. But it was new.

6:57

That was an upstart brand. Yeah, it was an upstart brand, yeah.

7:00

But you'd heard about it, it was

7:02

everywhere. My point is, awareness is literally

7:04

the foundation in letter A of brand

7:07

building. And even unfortunately,

7:09

it's been taken to a place where now

7:11

we have personalities online who decide I'm

7:13

gonna wallpaper over my mediocre work with

7:15

just awareness no matter how I get

7:17

it. And that's true of

7:19

politicians. It's just name recognition. When

7:24

I sold my company in 2007, I've

7:26

sold two or three companies. Every time

7:28

I sell them, I get a call from someone saying I

7:30

should run for office because it's clear that the primary criteria

7:33

for running for office is that you're gonna put 10

7:35

or 20 million of your own money into it.

7:38

And the first test they do is

7:41

name recognition. So it's

7:43

the same with brands. It's much easier to

7:45

launch Diet Coke than it is Tab or

7:48

a new Coke brand. And

7:50

the Daily Beast, the question is, does the Daily Beast

7:52

bring more baggage than

7:55

its awareness connotes? And I think

7:57

it's an okay brand. I don't think it's

7:59

a strong, it's been too. There's so much drama that

8:01

my sense is it does

8:04

come with a little bit of baggage, but on

8:06

the whole, people know it. It does feel kind

8:08

of elegant and aspirational and hip. I think Joanna

8:10

is the right person for this because

8:12

she's all of those things, but

8:14

this is a startup. I hope it

8:16

doesn't come with any legacy assets, including

8:18

whoever the team was there. Maybe it

8:20

does, but I would want to start

8:22

brand new and go into

8:24

whatever we call this world now. Attempts

8:28

like this, like Air Mail with Graydon Carter,

8:30

there's all these attempts to do that. It's

8:32

interesting. It's hard to build

8:34

a media brand. That's

8:36

why we're so special. Anyway, good luck, Joanna

8:38

and Dan. So

8:41

Google says another thing, because it says it's

8:43

starting to remove links, speaking of people who

8:45

actually have the power in news, to remove

8:47

links from California news websites for search results

8:49

for some users. The move comes in response

8:51

to California Journalism Preservation Act, which would make

8:54

online ad companies pay publishers for content appearing

8:56

in search results. Google said the

8:58

bill is the wrong approach to journalism. It

9:00

would create business uncertainty. Supporters

9:02

of the bill say it would help news publishers get

9:04

a fair share of the ad profits. The bill is

9:07

pending in the California state legislature. This is their move,

9:09

is to remove the links all over the world, not

9:11

just here, but they've done it before.

9:14

They're not going to pay too much for this muffler,

9:16

as they say. Thoughts? Well, when you only really

9:18

have three toll booths bidding for

9:20

all attention online, between 40

9:23

cents on every venture capital dollar are

9:25

spent on Amazon, Meta, or

9:29

Alphabet. Literally

9:31

they're the toll booths online. And

9:33

when you think about the tens of thousands,

9:36

if not hundreds of thousands, if not

9:38

millions of retailers, media companies, small businesses

9:41

that all need to acquire customers

9:43

online or reach people online, they

9:45

have absolutely almost nil leverage over the two

9:48

or three platforms that are the toll booths

9:50

for the entire internet. So

9:52

what the government has done is it's kind of stepped

9:54

in here and to a certain extent said we're going

9:56

to unionize for you and we're going

9:58

to force them to give a portion of their proceeds

10:01

to you. Now, California tends to lead the nation

10:03

on this kind of stuff. I

10:06

find it's typically a blunt instrument and they're not very

10:08

good at this stuff. Important. Where we really pay the

10:10

price for a lack of journalism

10:12

and funding is when

10:14

you're covering state corruption or local

10:16

corruption at, you know, in the

10:18

Pomona courthouse. You know, kind

10:20

of as you call them, I think, dumpshoe reporters.

10:23

When you don't have an ecosystem where you can

10:25

pay for that, you just end up with small

10:27

time corruption everywhere and a

10:29

lack of scrutiny. So I'd like that the government's

10:32

stepping in here and saying, look, you make

10:34

so much money and there's a public service

10:36

around supporting these news outlets that we're essentially

10:38

going to transfer wealth. I don't, I don't,

10:40

I'll be curious if it holds up. I

10:42

hope other states adopt it. What do you

10:44

think, Carrie? You're in this business. They

10:46

probably, they probably think it doesn't matter to have these

10:48

links there. They're trying, you know, as you know, we

10:50

talked about last week, Facebook trying to escape news. And

10:52

one of the things that was, we'll talk about in

10:55

a second is the situation in the Middle East. It

10:57

was very hard on threads to get a lot of,

10:59

you know, it was two day ago news. And so

11:01

the question is, is it help them or hurt them

11:03

not to have news, right? That's, they

11:05

know, they know whether it helps or hurt, or is it

11:07

just enough to have fun

11:09

videos to dancing Beyonce, etc,

11:11

etc. They know what works.

11:14

And I suspect they wouldn't cut these if they knew

11:16

that these things aren't worth the money, right,

11:18

for them to pay for them. I

11:21

think it's a power play. I think they're trying to do, I

11:23

think they're trying to threaten these folks and say, not only are

11:25

we not going to give you the money you deserve, you're not

11:27

going to get any traffic. Right. That's right. So take your

11:29

two cents on the dollar and be happy with a

11:31

bitch or we're like. Yeah, that's what they're doing.

11:33

That's what it is. I don't know how important the

11:35

news is to their sites. I just, I would like

11:38

to know and I would love there to be a

11:40

lawsuit so that we can find out. So

11:42

anyway, we'll, we'll see where it goes. This is,

11:44

this is an ongoing thing. It's happened all over

11:46

the world. And it has to do also with,

11:48

with AI too. This is how much of these,

11:50

are these companies going to start really paying the

11:54

freight That they are getting from

11:56

these media companies and have gotten them because they

11:58

certainly damaged them. Any companies have

12:00

gotten damage themselves by not being part of

12:03

the you know not being by allowing these

12:05

companies to run over them many years ago.

12:07

So I will say I really would love

12:09

to know how much it does contribute though

12:11

is because they will tell us and anyway

12:14

they know but. But. What does

12:16

represent So I. This

12:18

is California stepping him because of a

12:21

failure the deer day and the Ftc

12:23

to let is committed to big such

12:25

a there. So few bitters on content.

12:28

That the content creators assists the city business.

12:31

And it doesn't support newsrooms and so what

12:33

They want his content for free or and

12:35

they'll find little creators are conspiracy theory and

12:37

unfortunately they'll have a content or did not

12:39

act act and it's ended up than a

12:41

were at the we're now in a kind

12:43

of a post truth world So the fact

12:46

that the government had to step in here

12:48

I I think the government should step down

12:50

but I think a better way to have

12:52

done this would be directed com is that

12:54

such as there's more bitters on this content

12:56

for and. And people differentiate themselves because they

12:58

do. They run, they run the table. They

13:01

run the casino essentially. Anyway, we need to

13:03

their briefly get into situation the Mideast. or

13:05

lot of big news. Over the week, Iran

13:07

has launched more than three hundred drones and

13:10

missiles at Israel over the weekend in retaliation

13:12

for an airstrike on an Iranian consulate in

13:14

Syria. Israel said it's shutdown ninety nine percent.

13:16

Of the projectiles fired by Iran under

13:19

his Iron Dome system. With the help

13:21

a lot of help from the Us,

13:23

Western Allies and Arab partners are present.

13:25

Biden has told it Israeli Prime Minister

13:27

Netanyahu, the Us will not provide support

13:29

from the counter at yet another town

13:31

or attacks and wouldn't bidens options here.

13:34

I mean, let's focus focus on that.

13:36

It's because a conflict. the Middle. East

13:38

in this moving into original more is. Literally

13:40

the last thing that should be

13:42

happening here. Has

13:44

another at that you know and it

13:46

continued mideast conflict without any kind of

13:48

him. Any wherever bruises and you am

13:50

here. This is not dead for the

13:52

global com is not good for people

13:54

they are there needs to be in

13:56

an end to as I think most

13:58

people see else. Third set. where it's

14:00

moving. Any thoughts? Well,

14:02

I mean, my views are not in the

14:05

mainstream here. Listen, I'm talking about your emotional things about

14:07

this. I'm talking about the global economy. I'd like to

14:09

think my emotions are based on facts and how I

14:12

see things. So, look, I

14:14

think Iran is at the center of

14:16

almost all chaos in the Middle East

14:18

right now. This was an extraordinary victory

14:20

for not only the West, but

14:23

Arab nations who see prosperity and see

14:25

peace in the Middle East as a

14:28

key criteria and want normal relationships with

14:30

Israel and see not

14:32

Iran, but the Islamic

14:35

state, this fundamentalist

14:37

group in the mullahs ruling

14:40

over an increasingly younger population in Iran and

14:43

their proxies Hezbollah and

14:45

Hamas, they see them as

14:47

agents of chaos. And I believe

14:50

Biden got it

14:53

in my view almost entirely right. And

14:55

that is he has coordinated and

14:57

provided support for what is, in my opinion,

14:59

one of the biggest victories in recent history

15:01

in the West in terms of military. They

15:04

sent ballistic missiles and drones

15:06

over and the entire damage done

15:08

was that one veteran seven-year-old girl

15:10

was injured. And

15:12

this is the great Iranian, the superpower

15:14

in the Middle East supposedly is

15:17

totally impotent, totally

15:19

flaccid against the superior

15:21

technology, the democracy of the support

15:24

of other democracies and that is Israel.

15:26

This is an enormous win for

15:28

the West. I think where Biden screwed up and I want

15:30

to be clear, I think the White House has been steadfast

15:32

here and deserves a lot of credit around the support of

15:34

our ally. I think it

15:36

made absolutely no sense to

15:39

say we want support of counterattack. Why would

15:41

he take that off the table and

15:43

diminish Israel's threat deterrence ability?

15:45

I suspect it's because it's Netanyahu

15:47

and that he counterattacks as his business.

15:49

Well, he can say it privately. Yeah. Why would

15:51

he say it publicly? Why would he signal to

15:54

Iran that you are in a

15:56

stronger position on this issue

15:58

than Israel? Why would he publicly? state

16:00

that. How does that do anything but seed

16:02

advantage from our ally to Iran, the

16:05

purveyor of chaos and violence in the

16:07

region? Well, I think he's going

16:09

for peace here, right? I think he wants

16:11

everyone to calm the fuck down is my

16:13

impression of the situation. Because I

16:15

do think the impact of a conflict of

16:17

this escalating out of control is

16:19

rather severe, right? It just only takes,

16:22

you know, this is... All

16:24

right. I realize it would sound like a war hawk here.

16:26

Yes, you do. Those are the

16:28

same arguments made in 1939 and 1940 for us not to get

16:30

involved in that war

16:33

again in Europe. And

16:35

as long as Iran has these

16:38

proxies that have on their flag, death

16:40

to America, death to Israel, the Houthis,

16:42

I wonder, quite frankly, I don't believe

16:45

in half measures here. I think that...

16:47

I understand, but it's a counter attack from

16:49

an attack that started with Israel. So I think

16:51

that's the point he's... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

16:53

hold on. Are we talking about the counter attack against embassies,

16:56

the embassies in Argentina in the 60s and 70s? This

16:59

is... Hold on, hold on. Scott, we're not doing

17:01

this. We're not doing this here because we're not experts on it and

17:03

we're not going to, okay? Well, you don't need to be an expert.

17:05

We can read the fucking newspaper. I do

17:07

read the newspaper, Scott. We're talking about trying

17:10

to contain a situation and that's what I

17:12

suspect he's doing. I'm not defending that he

17:14

shouldn't say... I think he probably should have

17:16

said it privately, but I think what he's

17:19

pulled off here is rather astonishing in terms

17:21

of getting everybody together to push it back.

17:23

And so let's stick with that. Stick

17:26

with that because that's... We need to have... We're not

17:28

pieced in the least. That is never going to happen,

17:30

it feels like, but we definitely have to have a

17:33

de-escalation of constant attacks and

17:35

counter attacks. The tension, the

17:37

decision they have to make, and it's really difficult,

17:40

is that one, Biden's common

17:42

here, and it was powerful, and I see

17:45

the argument, was take the win, right? Yeah.

17:47

A lot of people think Iran signaled

17:49

this and it was performative and that

17:52

they do not want to escalate. Right.

17:55

Iran doesn't want to escalate and Israel

17:57

has their own play pretty full right

17:59

now. And we have our

18:01

own issues and don't want a wider regional conflict

18:03

and take the win and stand down. I think

18:05

that is a really powerful argument. On

18:08

the other side, we have a

18:10

weakened Iran that looks feckless or

18:12

looks at least diminished who continues

18:14

to develop their nuclear capabilities and

18:16

continues to sow chaos, including Americans

18:19

and Israelis with their proxies at

18:21

every move. And what happens if they get a

18:23

nuclear weapon? So and right now the

18:26

war machine is sort of lubed. I do not

18:28

take the view. I take the former that it's

18:30

probably time to stand down. But

18:32

we consistently through history, when we are in

18:34

a position of strategic advantage, when

18:37

you have an enemy, you locate, you

18:39

track and you eliminate. And

18:42

there is an argument to be made here

18:44

that it should be a coordinated... We

18:47

have the cloud cover, quite frankly, to go in and

18:49

take out some nuclear capabilities in Iran. And

18:51

I think it's something that I'm sure people much smarter

18:53

than me in the Defense Department

18:55

are talking about. We

18:57

always have a tendency to say the Israel

19:00

and its allies should only fight back to

19:03

a truce that we can never go on

19:05

the offense. Well, okay. All right.

19:08

Well, I think an impact... Thank

19:10

you, Dr. Kissinger. But

19:14

I think the impact on the global economy right

19:16

now would be devastating all

19:18

over the place. There's

19:20

bigger things at play. And I think how

19:22

they handled this with the coordination is exactly

19:25

the kind of thing we should

19:27

always be thinking about as a country. And

19:31

I think he doesn't get enough... And

19:34

I think that the attacks by the

19:36

right wing in this country is crazy

19:38

right now. We used to be

19:40

able to just agree, good job, and

19:42

nobody... The right wing is immediately accusing

19:45

him of all kinds of nonsense. And

19:47

there is, speaking of which, uniting and

19:49

things like that, having handled something so well,

19:51

it's... He'll get a bump for

19:53

this. Yeah, he should. We

19:55

don't even realize it this morning. We will realize it in

19:57

seven days and in 30 days. is

20:00

the biggest geopolitical victory for the West. I

20:02

would agree. That's repelling back the Russians and

20:05

Ukraine. I kept saying he was so glad

20:07

he's in the Situation Room and not Trump.

20:09

That's all I was thinking. I agree. Anyway,

20:13

let's move in to our

20:15

first big

20:17

story. Goldman Sachs is out with

20:19

his first quarter earnings and it's good news

20:21

for CEO David Solomon. He needs it. Profits

20:24

rose 28% from one year ago to $4.13 billion. Shares

20:28

increased 16% to $14.21 billion,

20:30

beating analysts' expectations. The bank

20:32

reported its best earnings for shares since

20:34

the third quarter of 2021. At

20:37

the same time, JPMorgan Chase

20:40

earnings, since you had some predictions last

20:42

week, the company reported more than $13

20:44

billion in profit and $42 billion in

20:47

revenue, beating estimates. But guidance

20:49

for net interest income came in lower than expected,

20:51

that said. And the shares fell

20:53

on that news. It's probably the stock's

20:55

worst day in four years. So talk a

20:57

little bit about these two, about these numbers. Goldman

21:01

has moved away from consumer lending and also

21:03

offloaded some of its shitty businesses. This is a

21:05

David Solomon got them in too in

21:08

recent months. What else should it be doing?

21:11

And Jamie Diamond is warning about an unsettling

21:13

global landscape, which we just discussed that could

21:15

threaten the economy. And

21:17

Wells Fargo and Citi also reported better

21:19

than expected profits in revenues and lower

21:21

net interest income. So give

21:23

us a big picture, since you talked

21:26

about the stocks being up and now

21:28

they're slightly down. But talk about the

21:30

overall banking situation. It's a great time

21:32

to be a bank, investment banking. They had enough,

21:35

kind of what I'll call the dry period

21:37

over the last two years of low investment

21:39

banking fees, gave them cloud cover to, quote

21:41

unquote, be more efficient, lay off some people.

21:45

The net interest margin or net interest income,

21:47

although they say it's actually going down because

21:49

people are moving their deposits into high yield

21:51

accounts. But investment

21:53

banking is up again. Their

21:56

IPOs are starting to come back, all the ways they kind

21:58

of traditionally make money and also. So the money they

22:00

make on deposits, which is more JP Morgan and Goldman.

22:04

And also there's just no getting around it. There's

22:06

been a pretty serious consolidation. And

22:08

that is people now want, if

22:11

you're going public, but there aren't a lot of

22:14

companies going public, everybody wants Goldman and JP Morgan

22:16

on the cover. In addition,

22:18

they have had huge inflows of assets

22:20

under management, which is how JP Morgan

22:22

makes money. These companies are

22:25

really well managed. Jamie and David are

22:27

both grown ups with fantastic colleagues

22:29

and a bench. They continue to attract

22:32

amazing human capital. The kids that go to

22:34

work for these companies out of NYU and

22:37

other skills are just so

22:39

talented and so hardworking. And

22:41

so the market's coming back off a lower

22:44

cost base. Their

22:47

wealth management businesses are consistently

22:49

low growers, but steady, predictable

22:51

income. And there's

22:53

a consolidation in the industry. It's a great

22:56

time. It's a great time to be

22:58

a bank. What about the

23:00

net income, his worries about

23:03

not just the unsettling global landscape,

23:05

but this net interest income coming

23:07

in lower? Well, that's because typically people

23:10

were putting money in CDs,

23:12

which were paying like And

23:14

they were getting the split. And

23:17

then they loaned it out at three and a half.

23:19

This is two years ago for a mortgage. So it's

23:21

two and a half. Now for a brief while, people

23:23

still were putting money into CDs and low interest bearing

23:25

accounts and their net interest margin

23:27

exploded. Now people are wising

23:29

up and say, if I have cash, I'm going to put it

23:32

in something with a little bit longer duration and I'm going to

23:34

get 5%, 5.5%, which has kind of starched out

23:38

that delta, consumers are smart. There's a lag,

23:40

but consumers are start. The thing,

23:42

and I'm not advising Jamie Dimon, but if I

23:44

was advising him, I think Jamie,

23:47

my sense is Jamie kind of fancies

23:50

himself the next treasury secretary and

23:52

he makes a lot of kind of

23:54

prognostications about the economy. And

23:56

my sense is after following the economy, making a ton

23:58

of money, I think it's a good predictions, watching

24:01

economists, I am absolutely certain

24:03

that almost nobody has any fucking idea. Yeah,

24:06

I would agree. And it is on

24:08

a balanced scorecard, the job as the CEO

24:10

of, in my opinion, of JP Morgan, their

24:12

job is to predict the future. It's

24:15

to set the company up for success

24:17

despite a variety of futures. And

24:19

that is to say, here's our bread and

24:21

butter. This would survive a recession.

24:24

Here we're well set up. Here are some bets in

24:26

case the economy continues to scream. I

24:28

want to explain as the CEO of a company

24:30

like JP Morgan, scenario planning. And

24:33

that is here are three or four different possible

24:35

outcomes for the economy in the next 12 months.

24:37

And this is why JP Morgan is well positioned

24:39

to take advantage in any scenario. But trying to

24:41

predict where the economy is going to be in

24:44

12 months, good luck with that. Yeah,

24:46

he's been doing that. He was wrong the last one. He

24:48

also had some mistakes. You know, he's talking a lot.

24:51

He looks like he's trying out for Treasury Secretary all

24:53

the time. Hundreds. It's really,

24:55

I like, stop it. I think he'd be great. Great.

24:59

He doesn't need to talk so much. You know, for

25:01

a banker, he talks too much. That's my

25:03

feeling. The guy's a leader. My

25:06

guess is like a lot of these guys who got a pretty healthy

25:08

ego. But there's a difference

25:10

between, I'll give you an example. The

25:14

right financial leader, the wrong financial

25:16

leader. Mark Rowan felt very

25:18

passionate about anti-Semitism on campus. He

25:21

took real action. He

25:23

affected change. And quite frankly, he is

25:25

withdrawn to being the CEO of Apollo.

25:28

Bill Ackman gets involved, gets drunk on the

25:30

fame, gets drunk on the power, and now

25:32

has decided that he needs to weigh in

25:35

on all things higher ed, all things DEI.

25:37

He has handled it poorly. I

25:39

think David Solomon, I don't want to

25:41

say sticks to his knitting, but is pretty

25:43

focused on Goldman and his prospects. Jamie

25:46

is a huge national leader. He has

25:48

huge respect. He gets a lot of business

25:50

that way. But if I'm whispering

25:52

in his ear, I'm like, just, I would

25:54

probably pull it back a little bit. Yeah.

26:00

My hard not to and your guy like that. The I got

26:02

it that he has to be a little more. Able

26:04

to take criticisms? That's how I will say

26:07

this though I've spoken about it every morning.

26:09

Events where you have the wealthiest people literally

26:11

in the room and he'll stand up and

26:13

he'll say yeah we should all everyone in

26:15

this room to pay more taxes. He's not

26:17

afraid to say that set of I think

26:19

he's he's is also advocating to his credit

26:22

is advocating for a negative income tax which

26:24

is basically you be. I like when's the

26:26

last time the head of the largest bank?

26:28

I'm an ace and advocate? Yes, I'm in

26:30

London for Center. And to do that when

26:32

he says his secretary that selfishness and thanks

26:34

anyway he's gonna get the job team you

26:36

need to are you don't need to. It's

26:39

almost like selling task the sales you know

26:41

that express since he's selling. Yeah, buying a back

26:43

don't buy about the. I write has like I'm

26:45

like okay got it you only presence as

26:47

I say okay all right let's go on

26:49

a quick frankly come back. Donald Trump's first

26:51

criminal trial begins us and lord sake and

26:53

as it starts continues to fall at at

26:55

truth so south and will be back with

26:58

a friend of pivot Charles Do Hague about

27:00

how to be a super communicate and we

27:02

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30:23

we're back. Former President Donald Trump's criminal trial

30:25

over hush money payments is getting underway in

30:27

the Manhattan courtroom. And this week,

30:29

just today, the first time in American history that

30:32

a former president will stand trial in a criminal

30:34

case, Trump faces, for those who want to keep

30:36

track of this, he faces 34 felony

30:38

counts of falsifying business records. He says he

30:40

plans to testify, though it's unclear if it

30:42

will actually happen. He says a lot of

30:45

things. This is the porn star one, everybody.

30:47

So just so you know, this is not

30:49

the documents one or the insurrection one. This

30:53

is the porn star one. And whether

30:55

he was, oh, anyway. This

30:58

is the first of Trump's four criminal trials.

31:00

The latest New York Times Sienna Poll

31:02

shows candidates in virtual tie with Trump at

31:04

46 and Biden at 245. Biden's come up

31:06

quite a bit. The five

31:09

major broadcast and cable networks also put out joint

31:11

open letter over the weekend, urging Trump and Biden

31:13

to participate in televised debates ahead of the election.

31:15

That's gonna be a lot of posturing back and

31:17

forth. And finally, the stock

31:19

price of True Social's parent company, Trump Media,

31:22

continues to slide, plunging more than 15% on Monday after

31:24

the company filed to issue millions

31:26

of additional shares. Trump Media has lost about $3.5 billion

31:29

in value since its public

31:31

debut last month. There's another three

31:33

to go. Ultimately, what happens with

31:35

this stock, obviously, the Washington Post profiled several

31:37

Trump supporters and investors say they're in it

31:40

for the long haul. I felt sorry for

31:42

them, because they seemed idiotic, but willfully so.

31:46

I don't know if Trump can liquidate his

31:48

holdings. This is what we said it was.

31:50

So thoughts on our latest Donald Trumpness? Let's

31:52

keep this one short. I

31:55

think he's probably found guilty. I don't think he

31:58

serves any time and it increases the level. likelihood

32:00

he's reelected president. I don't like

32:02

this case. And the

32:04

only thing I'm fairly certain,

32:06

well not really, I

32:08

think Trump Social, whatever we're calling it now, will

32:10

be single digits.

32:13

The people have gone in here for whatever reason. Nobody

32:15

went in here for business fundamentals. They went in for

32:17

it because they thought maybe it was a meme stock

32:20

or they wanted to support Donald Trump. And

32:22

I just got to, I mean, when

32:25

you wake up, I think, well, I don't know what the

32:28

people were thinking here. But I know what they're thinking now

32:30

and that is I've lost two thirds of my money if

32:32

I bought at the peak. Right, but they're happy. Yeah, and

32:34

there's- Some of them are like, I'm going to buy more,

32:36

but go ahead. You should read that piece. I

32:39

guess that's,

32:41

this company could be, I don't know

32:43

what it's at today, 20 bucks. This

32:45

company could be at a dollar a

32:47

share in 30 days. There's

32:49

no floor here. It's a company doing $4

32:52

million in revenue. And

32:54

by the way, I think people should

32:56

be able to buy stock in whatever they

32:58

want and the directors and him, if and

33:00

when lockup comes off, they should be able

33:02

to sell their shares. But for

33:04

the people investing here, be clear. You're

33:07

investing in some sort of,

33:09

you're not investing in a company. It's a

33:11

scam. Well, it's not even a

33:13

scam. You're just investing in a meme stock

33:15

or you're investing in support of him, but

33:17

you're not, you might, it's like the

33:19

way I think of it, think of it as a campaign contribution.

33:21

You're not getting that money back. And

33:23

whenever I give money to politicians, I got to be

33:26

honest, I feel good about it when I do it.

33:28

And then a year later, I think it was like

33:30

it never happened. Did anything really come of that? I

33:32

don't. Yeah, a lot of people putting

33:34

their life savings into it. And they think it's

33:36

like that George Soros is doing this story is

33:38

just like, I know that he's being taken advantage

33:40

of. I'm like, it's like, it's a shitty business.

33:42

That's why it's doing this. Like, let's just be

33:44

clear. It's

33:46

the business is terrible. It's a terrible

33:49

business. And also they're losing subscribers, etc,

33:51

etc. Everything about it. It's not a business.

33:53

It's not an actual business. And they just

33:55

continue to insist they want to love Donald

33:58

Trump, just send him your check directly. Just

34:00

send him your money directly. I feel bad.

34:02

I felt bad for these people when I was reading this

34:05

story and I thought, you're a bunch of idiots so I

34:07

don't feel bad in any way whatsoever about

34:09

you. So we'll see. And so you

34:11

think the trials don't matter? I don't agree with you.

34:13

I think these trials are a chippity-chipp-chipp for women especially.

34:16

Women are already like with the abortion thing and

34:18

I'm like, oh yeah, he was a rapist with

34:21

the Eugene Carroll and oh, he likes porn stars.

34:23

I don't know. I just don't. The

34:25

reminders. So first, listening

34:28

to you, you evoked the right

34:30

analogy. And the analogy is the people who give

34:32

money to these televangelists who are flying private, you

34:35

know, people who spend their welfare checks giving

34:37

money to these... Anyways, to me it's the

34:39

exact same thing. I

34:43

think this case probably

34:45

helps them because I think it rallies

34:48

his base who feel he's

34:50

being unfairly persecuted. I don't

34:52

think this is a good case. They

34:55

always do. I've read a

34:57

lot of analysis. There's a lot more here than meets

34:59

the eye. I think he's... Look, it's

35:01

pretty... If they can make a pretty clear thing,

35:03

he'll never testify by the way, people. He'll never

35:05

get on with it. A hundred percent he won't. You're

35:07

absolutely right. No way. He's finished

35:09

if he testifies. I think

35:11

he... By the fact, I don't know if

35:14

you've been seeing some of his speeches. He's

35:16

got some cognitive difficulties that are really quite

35:18

profound. The whole thing about Robert E. Lee,

35:20

he's flurring words. He cannot get on

35:22

the stand. I think it will show quite

35:24

a lot of cognitive problems, I suspect. Well, and

35:26

he'd perjure himself. He can't do it, no. He

35:31

can't take the stand the same reason that Elon

35:33

Musk was never going to take the stand because

35:35

he would either have to basically say, I've

35:38

lied over and over, or he would have

35:40

to lie. When you start lying on the

35:42

stand, there's potentially real prison time.

35:44

There's perjury. But this

35:47

case, I think the Nuclear

35:49

Secrets one, I think the election interference,

35:51

I would stay focused on

35:53

those. But we'll see. It reminds me of the

35:55

fact that he's a pig. Like

35:57

I don't know. I just more... No,

36:00

no, it's just reminder. Like you haven't been reminded in

36:02

a while. You're like, oh, yeah, the rapist. Oh, yeah,

36:04

the pig. Oh, yeah, the porn stars. Like, it's like,

36:06

do we want this again? And I think that's how

36:08

I look, the numbers of Biden, as I said, are

36:11

starting to grow again, because people are like, oh, this

36:13

fucking guy. Yes. All the, all the polls, like as

36:15

I predicted, I'm good on the political stuff.

36:17

I'm not as good on the business stuff

36:19

as you are, but I'm better on the political stuff. I

36:22

just think we'll see where it goes. But Trump media, oh, you put

36:24

it on. Will I get too emotional? I get

36:26

too emotional. You do. Some of your facts

36:28

are not factual. But anyway, feelings are not

36:30

facts. Yeah, that's not

36:32

fair. It is a little bit fair. Yeah,

36:35

it's not fair. It's fair.

36:37

Anyway, in the case of

36:39

Trump media, Scott is 100% factually correct.

36:42

In any case, don't buy that stock, people.

36:45

And if you have to just send them the money,

36:47

just walk over Mar-a-Lago and drop off a bag of

36:49

money. Anyway, let's bring in our friend

36:51

of Pivot so you and I can learn to communicate

36:53

in a more super way. Charles

37:00

Duhigg is a writer at The New

37:02

Yorker and author of the new book

37:04

Super Communicators, How to Unlock the Secret

37:06

Language of Connection. Welcome, Charles. And I

37:09

just was saying previously I admire your

37:11

beard. You're going in the Malcolm Gladwell

37:13

School of Weird Hair Situations, follicular.

37:17

You know, Scott could do the beard too if he

37:19

wants. He's got it started there. He's got it started.

37:21

Then he'll look like he's from like the 18, 1864, say

37:23

Arizona. I

37:26

look like Lennon if he was less sexy. Oh,

37:28

yeah. You

37:30

don't have the eyebrows for it. Anyway. By the way,

37:32

Charles, you look, I got, we saw

37:34

you at South by Southwest, right? Yeah. Yeah.

37:37

That just, you know, the beard ages you. Maybe you're looking

37:40

for that, but the beard absolutely adds to my hair. I'm

37:42

actually hoping that I look about a, you know, 85, 90.

37:45

That's great. Sounds like it's working. No, I

37:47

remember, I remember you, you're like a young

37:50

spry guy. I met this young spry guy

37:52

at South by Southwest and Cara goes, that

37:54

guy's such a hitter. His book is great.

37:56

She just, she very rarely compliments people as

37:58

much as she compliments people. complimented you. In

38:01

any case. In any case. First

38:04

of all, explain to us what exactly is

38:06

a super communicator you write in this book

38:08

actually came about when you realized you weren't

38:10

communicating well in your marriage. So let's get to

38:12

that. Yeah, that's exactly right. Or at the New York Times, right? I

38:14

was on the Twitter

38:29

and I was like, why aren't you supporting me? You're

38:34

supposed to be on my side. And then she would get upset because I

38:36

was packing her for giving me good advice. And

38:38

I wanted to understand what was going on. And

38:40

so I went out to researchers and I asked

38:42

them, you know, why am I miscommunicating? I'm a

38:45

professional communicator. And what they said is,

38:47

well, look, we're living through a golden age of understanding

38:49

communication. And one of the things that we know now is

38:51

that we think of a discussion as being about one

38:54

thing, but it's actually many different kinds of conversations. And

38:56

in general, they tend to fall into one or three

38:58

buckets. Practical conversations

39:00

where we're solving problems, we're making plans

39:02

together. But then there's emotional conversations

39:04

where I tell you what I'm feeling and I don't

39:06

want you to solve my feelings. I want you to

39:09

empathize. And then finally, there's social conversations about how we

39:11

relate to each other. And if

39:13

you're not having the same kind of conversation at the

39:15

same moment, that's when you miscommunicate. I

39:17

was having an emotional conversation. My wife was having

39:19

a practical conversation. And so we couldn't really hear

39:21

each other. I know that. I'm always like,

39:24

what's the solution? I don't really care about the

39:26

feeling as much as the solution, which is interesting.

39:28

So what do you see as the main reason?

39:30

I mean, of course, it's hard to like say

39:32

one reason that people struggle to communicate effectively, but

39:34

talk about a few of them. It's

39:37

usually because for a couple of reasons. First

39:39

of all, that we don't we're not having

39:41

the same kind of conversation. Remember that that

39:44

wave of like tech CEOs doing layoffs over

39:46

Zoom. So obviously,

39:48

when you're laying someone off, that's an emotional

39:50

conversation. And yet they were treating it as

39:52

a practical conversation. This is why we're laying

39:54

you off. Here's the benefits you're going to

39:56

get. This is what's best for the company.

39:58

Somebody hearing that they're being. losing their job, they

40:00

don't want to hear about the practicalities. They want to

40:02

hear someone who empathizes with them.

40:05

And so having the same kind of conversation

40:07

at the same moment is critical. Another thing

40:09

that's really important is asking more questions. Super

40:12

communicators ask 10 to

40:14

20 times as many questions as the average

40:16

person. And as reporters, we know this, right?

40:19

The power of questions and particularly asking deep

40:21

questions, questions that ask me about my values

40:23

or my beliefs or my experiences. Like

40:25

if you meet someone who's a doctor, instead of saying, where do

40:27

you practice medics and saying, Oh, what made you decide

40:30

to go to medical school? That's an invitation for

40:32

them to say something real. And

40:34

then finally, the thing that super communicators do

40:36

is they prove that they're listening. They ask follow

40:38

up questions that show they're paying attention. They

40:40

might do this thing called looping for understanding where

40:42

they repeat back what they heard you say.

40:44

And when we feel listened to,

40:47

that's when we become more likely to listen

40:49

in return. Oh, that's an

40:51

interesting technique. So that's so what you've just

40:53

said to me is no, no,

40:56

you're very good at it. Yeah, no, I'm not. Do

40:59

you want me to explain it? Yeah, that's

41:01

what he does. Scott, go for it, Mr.

41:03

Communications. My, you've

41:06

sort of outlined my dad said, you know,

41:08

my dad said this to me when I

41:10

was much younger and I didn't register how

41:13

important it was or how many subtleties to it. And

41:16

it sounds like it's a lot of what your name

41:18

to you is used to say, communication is with the

41:20

listener. Can you talk about

41:23

something I didn't figure out how as much

41:25

older is the power of silence, just

41:27

looking someone in the eye and make

41:30

sure that you know that you are

41:32

not waiting to speak, that you're

41:35

listening to them. Can you talk about the

41:37

power of silence and sort of

41:39

acknowledging the point, if you will? Absolutely.

41:41

Absolutely. Creating those spaces for silence

41:44

is critical. And what's interesting is

41:46

that speaking is such a cognitively

41:48

intense activity that oftentimes we

41:50

don't really pay attention to how people are

41:53

acting when we're speaking. Right?

41:55

And so the way that we create that

41:57

silence or we create that proof of

41:59

listening is when they stop talking what we

42:01

do. For instance, think about

42:03

how powerful it is. If you just said something profound

42:05

and someone says, wow, that gives me a lot to

42:08

think about, let me take a second just to think

42:10

about what you just said. In that

42:13

moment, what you're really doing is you're saying, I am

42:16

listening to you. I promise I'm listening to you. And

42:18

then if you ask a follow-up question, or if you

42:20

say, here's what I hear you saying, and tell

42:22

me if I'm getting this wrong, what

42:24

we're doing is we're proving that we're listening.

42:26

Because you're exactly right. Many people, particularly in

42:28

a hard conversation, a conflict conversation, we

42:31

suspect in the back of our head, this person isn't

42:33

listening. They're waiting their turn to speak. And

42:35

we have to prove that that's not

42:37

what's happening. And when we do, it

42:39

transforms a conversation. So one

42:42

other thing you just talked about, reference to

42:44

Zoom communication. A lot of communication happens on

42:46

text or video or social media, which

42:49

is a very different level of communication, which is

42:51

not about listening in any way, some of the

42:53

time it is, but usually it

42:55

isn't. How does technology

42:57

play into what we're writing about? Because often

42:59

when Scott and I get into Beast, it's

43:01

over as text. You know what I mean?

43:03

Like I'm thinking, which he takes the wrong way.

43:05

No, one of us gets into a Beast. The other just sits

43:07

there and thinks, what the fuck is she texting me for? 3am.

43:09

No. I don't respond, Cheryl.

43:12

But then when we talk, when we talk. I

43:14

listen. I'm the winner. I'm the super communicator. No,

43:16

you're not. No. I just listen. No.

43:18

In any case, we

43:20

always solve it when we talk together. Yeah. Even

43:24

over the phone. Even over a phone. It makes

43:26

a huge difference, right? In

43:28

the book, there's this story about a CIA

43:30

officer who is a terrible CIA officer. He's

43:32

sent over to Europe to try and recruit

43:34

spies and he's terrible at his job. And

43:36

he learns this lesson, which is different

43:38

types of communication have different rules and different

43:40

strengths and weaknesses. And what's interesting is if

43:43

you look at 100 years

43:45

ago when phones became popular, there were all these articles

43:47

that said, no one will ever have a real conversation

43:49

on telephone because you can't see each other face to

43:51

face. And at the time

43:53

they were right. If you look at early transcripts,

43:56

it's people using phones like telegraphs or sending stock

43:58

orders and grocery lists to each other. other.

44:00

But of course, by the time we're in middle school, our kids, we

44:03

can have phone conversations that are some

44:06

of the deepest conversations of our life. And it's because

44:08

we learned how to use phones. And

44:10

when you're talking on the phone, you tend to, without realizing

44:12

it, overemphasize your words a little

44:14

bit more. You put more emotion into your

44:16

voice because you know the person can't see

44:18

your expressions. And when

44:20

it comes to digital communications, the same

44:23

thing is true. There are certain rules. If I

44:25

say something sarcastic to you, you can hear the

44:27

sarcasm in my voice. If I type something sarcastic,

44:29

you're going to take it seriously and you're going

44:31

to be pissed off. And so

44:33

we just have to remind ourselves of what those

44:36

rules are, that there's some conversations that have to

44:38

be telephone, have to be face to face. And

44:40

if we do them online, then we

44:43

have to overemphasize politeness, we have

44:45

to overemphasize emotion, we have to

44:47

under emphasize sarcasm. So

44:49

first off, I think storytelling, someone asked

44:51

me, what is the core confidence

44:53

you would want to give to your kids? I've been

44:55

thinking a lot about high school crayons, and hands down,

44:57

and I am going to buy your book and

45:00

give it to my two sons. I think

45:02

the competence that will stand the test

45:04

of time is storytelling. You're on a

45:06

podcast with two people who have made

45:08

their living storytelling. If

45:10

you buy into that, and you have sons

45:13

or daughters, and you want them to become

45:15

great storytellers, what exercises

45:17

or what hacks would you recommend for acquiring

45:20

that skill? Yeah, it's a great question. And

45:22

the first thing to understand is what happens

45:24

when we communicate. So when we're

45:26

in a conversation, the reason it's powerful and

45:28

communication is homo sapiens superpower, right? It is

45:31

the thing that has set us apart from

45:33

every other species. When we're

45:35

talking to each other, our bodies start to match

45:37

each other, right? During this conversation without us realizing

45:39

it, our breath patterns are matching each

45:41

other, our heart rates are starting to align. And

45:43

most importantly, the neural activity that the brain activity

45:46

that both of us have, all of us have

45:48

are starting to mirror each other. And

45:50

within that neurology, that's known as neural

45:53

entrainment. And then when you think

45:55

about it, it makes sense. Because if I describe an

45:57

emotion to you, if I if I describe an idea,

45:59

you actually experience that idea or that

46:01

emotion a little bit. That's what makes it powerful.

46:04

And that's our brains aligning. So

46:06

when it comes to storytelling, the thing to keep in mind

46:08

is, my goal is not

46:11

necessarily to tell you the most

46:13

polished story on earth. My

46:15

goal is to take you on a journey with me, right?

46:17

Many people who when they tell stories, they

46:20

focus on the beginning and the end. But

46:22

it's the middle, the journey through the middle

46:25

that makes it a story. If you think

46:27

about the movie Cinderella, the beginning as the

46:30

father dies, that's two minutes. The ending as

46:32

she lives happily ever after, that's like 45

46:34

seconds. The rest of the movie is

46:36

the middle. And when we

46:39

bring people on that journey, we invite them

46:41

to align with us, to

46:43

entrain neurologically. And that's incredibly

46:45

powerful. But when people have

46:48

less of an attention, obviously, people

46:50

have less attention now, and especially when they're distracted

46:52

by a phone or whatever it happens to be.

46:54

But the thing is certainly, we're

46:56

in a persistent partial attention is where we

46:59

all live now. Does that

47:01

affect that? Because it's very hard to

47:03

have. I've had many fewer longer conversations

47:05

than I used to. I'm starting to talk

47:07

like I'm starting to tech. You know what I mean? They're

47:10

usually more logistical and

47:14

that kind of thing. What happens in

47:17

that space? And can people get, like you said, if

47:19

you can adapt to phones, you can adapt to social

47:21

media too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well,

47:26

time is less important than

47:29

authenticity. So if I tell you

47:31

that I had this incident

47:33

with my wife and we couldn't hear each other

47:35

and I went to these researchers and I talked

47:37

to them, that takes me 40 seconds

47:40

to explain, but it's a little bit

47:42

of a story. You get to come with me. You get

47:44

to envision me and my wife not getting along because that's probably

47:46

something that happens with you guys and your wives, right? And

47:49

so- Never. I'm sorry,

47:52

go ahead. And so what I think

47:54

what happens is that, particularly when

47:56

we're on social media, if we use social media

47:58

as a way to simply broadcast to- scream

48:01

rather than to interact, we'll fall into

48:03

that pattern throughout our life because it

48:06

becomes a habit. And

48:08

so the thing to do is to remind ourselves

48:10

that the goal of a conversation is not to

48:12

convince the other person that you are right and

48:14

they are wrong. It's not to impress them. It's

48:17

not for them to like you. The goal of

48:19

a conversation is simply to understand how they see the

48:21

world and speak in a way that they understand how

48:24

you see the world. And when you

48:26

hold yourself to that standard, I'm not

48:28

going to continue or discontinue this conversation

48:30

until I can try

48:32

and understand what you're saying and help you

48:34

understand me. It makes

48:37

everything healthier. Can I do a

48:39

follow up? We're obviously in election year. It seems

48:41

like candidates are not that doing that. It's a

48:43

dunk, dunk, dunk. No one ever listens, you know,

48:45

even more so than anybody else of

48:48

all public facing people. They're the worst,

48:50

I think. Is there anyone who's a

48:52

super communicator that you see on the

48:54

campaign trail? What's really interesting is if

48:57

you go to rallies, and this is true of both Trump

48:59

and Biden, and you pay attention to when

49:01

they get off script, what they're doing is

49:03

they're proving that they're listening. Setting

49:08

aside what he's saying and the craziness coming out of his mouth,

49:10

when that audience applauds, he leans into the

49:12

applause. He leans into whatever he's saying. That's

49:15

why he starts saying all these crazy things.

49:17

He's proving to them that he's listening to

49:19

them. And Biden's doing the same thing in

49:21

his rallies and he's trying to do it

49:23

right now with his public statements. You're

49:25

exactly right. One of the reasons

49:27

I wrote this book is because we have

49:30

forgotten how to communicate, right? This used to

49:32

be taught in schools. Your parents took a

49:34

course called HOMEC or interpersonal relations, and

49:37

as schools got more technical, it fell out of the curriculums. But

49:39

this is important, and our brain is

49:42

designed to be amazing at communication. If

49:44

we teach it the right skills, it

49:46

makes it into a habit very quickly.

49:48

And so super communicators is about that

49:51

handful of skills that we know helps

49:53

you connect with other people. Yeah,

49:55

it's interesting. I do think you learn to

49:57

communicate without talking. I think I've learned having

49:59

small... Turner's we talk a lot but

50:01

not speaking were internet. Mean, there's a

50:04

lot of nine communication communication happening.

50:06

Scott Final Question. For you

50:08

your dispatchers are unaware little bit about you

50:10

to have kids. I do I but I

50:13

twelve year old and fifteen year old of

50:15

here. it's your if you're in the midst

50:17

of a junior second tour of Iraq and

50:19

businessmen I reserve exactly right. What about the

50:22

How Has your study of spin, a super

50:24

communicator and the best summers practice has changed

50:26

the way you interact to do children, it's

50:28

actually transformed. It's an end in two ways

50:31

that the first thing is that I mention

50:33

that deep questions the with that really is

50:35

as it's about asking not about the facts.

50:37

Of someone's life but how they feel about their

50:39

life and I used to ask my kids like how

50:42

was your day fine did you learn a thing school

50:44

know? did you have fun know right You guys

50:46

had this like it's is like pulling teeth to

50:48

have a conversation with them and then I started asking

50:50

said about the facts other day I sort of acid

50:52

same things like stay I know that you hung

50:54

out with Jasper after school with what do you

50:56

admire about Jasper? why do you like him. And

50:59

suddenly it's like opening this book. You know my

51:01

kid is like who is very courageous when his

51:03

courage mean it will. He rode his bike off

51:05

the roof. Or that

51:08

correct sir. What else is a dud? Or

51:10

it turns out Jasper can talk to girls

51:12

and I proved that I'm listening to the

51:14

My Ass and these the questions about how

51:16

they feel about through as to their experts

51:18

in that and then I repeat back to

51:20

them I say oh that's interesting what do

51:22

you mean by courage I prove to them

51:24

that I'm paying attention that I want to

51:26

learn from them. His and then added know

51:28

I'm glad they're not in this know they

51:30

love it is. They love things right. I

51:32

mean, you have older kids care, you know, like

51:35

when the teenagers. They're

51:37

They're just bursting at the seems to be

51:39

experts on things and scherzer narayan you and

51:41

distance to think they're an expert on his

51:43

their own life Yet this airstrip that. She's.

51:45

Silks and give a sort of these are

51:47

our Scott nice or Communicators you. Guys are

51:50

super communicators parser nights. I mean it's the thing

51:52

is I've been listening to some of the podcast

51:54

that you've been in care about i'm for your

51:56

books he had and the thing I love about

51:58

it is that you go in and. Have

52:00

something to say right? you have use your

52:02

coming and not just waiting for a question,

52:04

you're coming in with something you wanna share

52:06

of but at the same time you're also

52:08

listen to that hosts are interacting with them.

52:11

And us might not walk away completely agreeing

52:13

with each other. But. You walk

52:16

away understanding and connecting with each. and

52:18

yeah, yeah, you guys, you guys are

52:20

different. super communicators. Give everybody one quick

52:22

tip for we go. What's the one

52:24

girl has to do? The. One thing

52:26

you have to do is today. Ask

52:28

a question that you wouldn't have asked otherwise,

52:30

and make it a question that. Seals.

52:33

To you like it's personal like he like

52:35

does that one. Yet. With

52:38

yeah, why did why did you decide to become a

52:40

journalist Like what was like growing up? where have you

52:42

grew up with you love about your neighborhood isn't. Those

52:45

questions or gives an invitation to someone else

52:47

me up to tell you who they really

52:49

are. The. I think I told status as

52:51

something though he does. My son does everyone

52:53

yes and I borrowed it is. I think

52:56

it works really well. He he looks at

52:58

somebody doesn't know and he says how's your

53:00

day, go and an eye as to tell

53:03

you it changes dynamics constantly where we're at

53:05

rather than just rush past And it works

53:07

For was powerful. It's very much so. Anyway,

53:09

Charles you Hague Super communicators had will not

53:12

the secret language as connection is out now.

53:14

They serve. Drinks. Wrapping me.

53:18

A. right? Scott that was interesting isn't it is or

53:20

was that have good book I like and I

53:22

just books a lot of a lot of city

53:24

where and his stories of the times and now

53:26

at the New Yorkers Anyway we'll be back for

53:28

wins and sales. Everyone,

53:33

this is just a Fox has of

53:36

Good One a Podcast About You. I'm

53:38

proud to announce that I personally one

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the streaming and there's a new doc

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our own filter podcast. Good One a

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Show about Jones Falls my perfect meal

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as he developed new material to give

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audiences through the process of transferring

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personal story. Santa features interviews of my

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family and how many colleagues like Seth

53:59

Meyers. Awesome. There's an awful a

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cassette good one. A show about

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You is streaming now only odd

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Pika. Hi

54:10

everyone! I'm Renee Brown and this

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a universal experiences of being human

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confusing me, maybe to keep me

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54:37

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55:00

as always say awkward of phrase

55:02

and and. Okay,

55:11

it's.let's hear some wins and sales You.

55:13

Go first this asleep world servers.

55:15

I just wanna have a close

55:17

the loop on Charles. So I

55:19

do think that storytelling is the

55:22

core components that's gonna text amateurs

55:24

the time live in the two

55:26

of us have made extraordinary live

55:28

in. Some have interesting lives in

55:30

influence. Because of our story capability,

55:32

Storytelling is now incredibly important. But.

55:34

Storytellers. Are. Super attractive

55:36

to the other. sucks because they're important to

55:38

survive of the species as is the reason

55:41

and Mick Jagger get stuck. Paying.

55:44

Almost fifty years has to do is

55:46

his junior and it was colossal together

55:48

by pierced Hears Voices are great storyteller

55:50

sort of our minds of but also

55:52

just a pro tip to the to

55:54

the young men and women out there

55:57

and and dating A mistake I was

55:59

made on the date. Was.

56:01

I always felt like I had

56:03

to sell every silence with words.

56:06

And. Coffee talking and outskirts. And

56:08

here's what. Here's what I think

56:11

it's a hack in dating and

56:13

made in early on be really

56:15

comfortable with silence. And

56:17

I would be a dinners and there be

56:19

a partner conversation and I would just stare.

56:22

I would just stop and stare politely and

56:24

smile nicely. and my dates and so it

56:26

almost became uncomfortable. And see

56:28

would say. What's

56:31

going on earth would already? Why? Silence? I

56:33

just enjoy listening. it says I'm confident it's

56:35

as I don't need to fill every word

56:37

and then to just be very emotive and

56:39

say i know I just like looking at

56:42

you or I just like listening to Audacious

56:44

like let out of the. Tests

56:47

because of the spray tan. By the

56:49

way, if anyone's ever depressed out there,

56:52

my first piece of advice from people

56:54

com it's implement our might have you

56:56

thought about a spray tan since contains

56:58

does U S and Contains No, but

57:00

I used. I do use man make

57:02

up. I use a clinic brown so

57:04

indecisive with the snow moisturizer and I'd

57:06

look fucking rain. And to me I

57:08

look at me as as it Forty

57:10

Eight today. Enough Forty nine. Anyways, Silence.

57:12

Young men and young women embrace it.

57:15

It reflects, complicated. Now you wins in sales.

57:17

Go ahead anyway. my when

57:19

he is ah this multilateral

57:21

on Defense of Israel. This

57:23

guy and bastard James Jeffrey

57:25

it's from the will from

57:28

sarcomas summed it up for

57:30

me said the Iranians by

57:32

their massive but failed military

57:34

response Israel's Damascus strike. Have

57:37

brought the entire October Seven, Gaza

57:39

discuss him back to the key

57:41

underlined factor around. and it's products

57:43

around on it's proxies. decades long

57:46

effort to dominate the region and

57:48

tanks stability at the expense of

57:50

Arab states and of Turkey, Israel,

57:52

and United States and Europe. Three

57:54

hundred projectiles. Not one made

57:56

it through the shrapnel of one injured a seven

57:59

year old girl. Isn't this

58:01

with American aircraft carriers took

58:03

out rounds, American F fifteens

58:05

took out drancy, Israeli Iron

58:07

Door Down, and the Arrows

58:09

Defense systems? Jordanians took down

58:11

drones over over most of

58:13

these things. Never even got

58:15

into Israeli air space. When

58:17

the West and it's allies

58:19

coordinate, we are an insurmountable

58:22

fool. And crane it's But

58:24

I mean, Israel has the

58:26

technical superiority, the most vibrant

58:28

economy, and the most potent.

58:31

Political system in terms of it's allies.

58:33

And. The fact that everyone got together regardless

58:35

of what they think of the current administration

58:38

and said there's you know, there's a bad

58:40

administration and then there's someone so in chaos

58:42

throughout the region. And for

58:44

them to coordinate and such a sophisticated

58:46

manner with this type of success he

58:48

does have real moment a victory for

58:50

the west. About my when. I'm

58:54

my, My sale is I'm

58:56

becoming. Incredibly. Awesome!

58:58

With the term Bernie Sanders around,

59:00

I've been thinking a lot about

59:03

Daniel Kahneman. He.

59:05

Had our tax policy, It's

59:07

gone from. I mean, every year.

59:10

taxes get lower on corporations and

59:12

the wealthy for the most part,

59:14

and Daniel Condiments research showed that.

59:17

Essentially there is a correlation between

59:19

money and happiness is absolutely middle

59:22

income people are happier than normal

59:24

or and wealthy happier the middle

59:26

income but at a certain point

59:28

it the returns to menace. And

59:30

it just got me thinking if you. And.

59:33

A Safari. My presentation, if above call

59:35

five or ten million dollars. You.

59:37

Don't get any incremental happiness. But

59:40

you can, but the difference between thirty

59:43

and sixty grand for a low income

59:45

family is extraordinary in terms of their

59:47

wellbeing and happiness. Than

59:49

why on earth would we not have marginal tax

59:52

rates of ninety percent above a certain level? I'm

59:54

in a might be ten million, but if you're

59:56

not giving up anything at that level, But.

59:59

Your readers. Meaning a massive amount,

1:00:01

a good well, health and happiness about us

1:00:03

antenna gone back to where Eisenhower was needed.

1:00:05

At a certain income level we should have

1:00:08

pretty aggressive. A pretty.

1:00:10

Pretty. Aggressive tax rates and the

1:00:12

thing that we don't get in

1:00:14

the Us is we figured out

1:00:17

the hard part. Whether it's whether

1:00:19

it's child poverty, universal pre K

1:00:21

homelessness, veterans affairs, their nations all

1:00:23

over the world that have figured

1:00:25

out these issues. The. Hard part

1:00:28

is the resources. And

1:00:30

the fact that we can grow the economy

1:00:32

by a court of a trillion dollars. In

1:00:35

of five minute earnings call means we've actually

1:00:37

got the hard part figured out. So.

1:00:40

I think did of what I'll call

1:00:42

my sale is. The weaponization

1:00:44

or the lie that we can fake

1:00:47

of is problems out. And

1:00:49

med progressive or non progressive tax

1:00:51

rate somehow result in greater well

1:00:53

being for the nation. They don't

1:00:55

beat the incremental from going from

1:00:58

ten to twenty million dollars. I'd

1:01:00

agree. you get absolutely no utility,

1:01:02

you get absolutely no happiness. So

1:01:04

my sale is this myth that

1:01:06

menthol man it in this part

1:01:09

of the side guys that we

1:01:11

need that lower taxes on the

1:01:13

wealthiest non corporations is part and

1:01:15

parcel of a growing economy and

1:01:18

important for people's. Well being and happiness?

1:01:20

it's not. It doesn't add any incremental happiness

1:01:22

anybody. And if you work on a corporate

1:01:24

side. The. Higher the tax rate

1:01:26

them or reinvestment. There isn't a comic

1:01:28

as be a fifty percent corporate tax

1:01:31

rates companies go well. Why wouldn't we

1:01:33

take a chance to open another plan

1:01:35

or hire more people Cause we get

1:01:37

kind of fifty percent off. So my

1:01:39

sale is this tired, outdated and false.

1:01:42

Or mythologies that really low tax rates

1:01:44

on the most profitable companies and are

1:01:46

mega earners somehow add value back to

1:01:49

the Commonwealth. They don't. They reduce our

1:01:51

happiness. Sadness at Mark Cuban, of course.

1:01:53

just just tweeted. I'd add that it's

1:01:55

taxes. I pay what I have smiled transfer

1:01:57

to Iran to and and eighty eight million

1:01:59

dollars. I'm actually have done so much me

1:02:01

I'm proud to. Pay. My taxes every single year

1:02:04

tag a former president you know who doesn't

1:02:06

he actually correct is two hundred and Seventy

1:02:08

Six million and two hundred Eighty eight. But

1:02:10

I that I was funny. But my When

1:02:13

A is obviously your new book the Algebra

1:02:15

of Wealth and I only read at I

1:02:17

haven't had a timer get it yet because

1:02:19

I just got it in the males. I'm

1:02:22

very excited to read it and very. For divorce I'm

1:02:25

it. centered on and you don't need to read

1:02:27

it. Your dancer both smoked. Don't read it. I

1:02:29

was just thinking how many give it to Alex

1:02:31

in a second once I looked through it's I'm

1:02:33

excited. To look at it was cited

1:02:35

for your book and them said it's about yearbook. I

1:02:37

know you have a lot of as and said I

1:02:39

will probably be attending one of your events as opposed

1:02:41

someone else who didn't communicate. Zone super with my

1:02:44

own Anyway, I probably wealth. And

1:02:46

then my sale at you know we. right

1:02:48

now I don't have you noticed, but right

1:02:50

now I'm a Tesla is laying off ten

1:02:52

percent of it's workforce right now it's today

1:02:54

and they that as a lot a number

1:02:56

of executives at the has has set. It

1:02:59

on leaving. Ah, Senior Vice President

1:03:01

eighteen your company. That means leaving.

1:03:03

Saw another one row on Patel is leaving.

1:03:05

He meant business of Elements. This was a

1:03:08

really company that was really on the cutting

1:03:10

edge in his last the way and that's

1:03:12

to all we were saying in this. When

1:03:14

a lead with competition with people obviously not

1:03:17

keeping up in terms of new products not

1:03:19

taking your eye off the ball it's a

1:03:21

shame. it's a damn saying that it it

1:03:23

was inevitable they're gonna lose some market share

1:03:26

because that's the way those disease pioneered. It's

1:03:28

an industry it's incredibly spite of. This is

1:03:30

a fail because it didn't quite have to

1:03:33

happen this way. Either now or everyone's cutting

1:03:35

back in this area is just as it

1:03:37

shows you that if you take your eye

1:03:39

off a ball as of the have a

1:03:42

really exciting product you can really get into

1:03:44

trouble and I allowed nicht as with any

1:03:46

rancor towards this first is the same because

1:03:49

this isn't this is an industry leading company

1:03:51

away from the stock price went from is

1:03:53

toxic doesn't that So it's a real sale

1:03:55

on his behalf for taking his eye off

1:03:58

the ball. I think personally so. It A

1:04:00

I wish it wasn't a sale. In a lot of is,

1:04:02

oddly enough, will. But to be fair of those people who

1:04:04

have been there fifteen or eighteen, Yeah, nurse. They.

1:04:06

Have recognized Norm Us even with the drawdown

1:04:09

i'm sorry Dave. Enormous, They have recognized enormous

1:04:11

economic security, which is what a for profit

1:04:13

company has forced to. Those people have done

1:04:15

really well. Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway, I'm

1:04:17

I, just it just and they have done

1:04:19

really well. but they didn't They needed to

1:04:22

make changes and that's what they dead and

1:04:24

ah and ten percent the word for sustained

1:04:26

suffer for it anyway. But that's what happens.

1:04:28

Unfortunately, I'm in any case we want to

1:04:30

hear from you. Send us your questions about

1:04:32

business sector, whatever is on your mind, go

1:04:34

to nymag.com/pivot to send. A question for the

1:04:36

shower. Call Eight Five Five Five One Pivots. Don't

1:04:38

forget to vote for us in the Webby awards

1:04:41

at the Lincoln Description. We need to be number

1:04:43

one because it will still the giant empty space

1:04:45

and our souls. And

1:04:47

Scott we would like when we would

1:04:49

like to win amps of he's got.

1:04:51

That's the show. Will be back on

1:04:53

Friday with more. Meanwhile this week on

1:04:55

Prof to Eat Insects that interview with

1:04:57

certain professor at Cal Newport to hear

1:05:00

his ideas on slow productivity and for

1:05:02

on with Kara Swisher. As I said

1:05:04

will bring you my conversation with Jonathan

1:05:06

Heights anyway please. Results got. To do

1:05:08

so was produced by Learn A Missouri

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Markers and Killer Griffin earn a retired

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the parker Thank you for listening a

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back later this week for another breakdown

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1:05:33

a sec him and the good people

1:05:35

of Jordan First Port of America. And. Advance.