0:00

What is up ? plant people Hey , it's time

0:02

once more for the Plant anthropology podcast . This

0:05

short , we dive into the lives and careers of

0:07

some very cool plant people to figure out why

0:09

they do what they do and what keeps them coming back

0:11

for more . I'm Vikram Baleega , your host

0:13

and your humble guide in this journey through the sciences

0:16

And , as always , my dearest friends

0:18

. I am so happy and thrilled to

0:20

be with you today . Hey , we've got some important

0:22

questions to answer today , like can

0:25

M&Ms help you with your stress

0:27

? Can your green thumb

0:29

be selective ? How

0:31

do our brains interact with

0:33

plants ? And so

0:35

many more things about plants and life

0:38

and neuroscience . And I am so excited

0:40

to have today's guests on My guest

0:42

, morgan Johnson , known across

0:44

the internet as Ask , a Neuroscientist

0:47

, and I recorded this actually back

0:50

a couple of months ago And I'm

0:52

finally getting this out and I'm so excited for you to hear it

0:54

. So Morgan actually got to come

0:56

into town . She lives in a different city but

0:58

she was coming into town for some different

1:01

stuff . But I convinced myself

1:03

because it makes me feel good that she drove

1:05

all the way here six hours just

1:08

to see me and to record this podcast with me

1:10

. But I was so excited

1:12

to get to do this in person , because it's hard

1:14

to do in-person interviews sometimes And

1:16

especially when I've got guests from all over

1:18

the state and all over the country and all over the world . But

1:20

Morgan and I sat down and talked

1:22

about her life as a neuroscientist

1:24

. She is working on her PhD in neuroscience

1:27

right now , studying things like

1:29

the effects of different chemicals and drugs on the brain

1:31

, the ways we handle stress

1:33

and sort of the intersections between

1:35

all those things . So a little bit of a quick content

1:38

warning for today's episode . We have a

1:40

frank discussion in this about

1:42

different types of drugs , both the recreational

1:45

kind and the medicinal kind , and the ways

1:47

that they affect our brains . We talk

1:49

about some of the causes of addiction

1:51

. We talk about some things that may make

1:53

a slide back into addictive tendencies

1:55

and things like that , and so

1:57

it's really a fascinating discussion

2:00

of how different chemicals and different plants

2:02

affect our brain chemistry and our bodies

2:04

and how we find

2:06

out how some of those things happen . But I

2:09

know this is a sensitive subject for some people

2:11

, So just bear that in mind . Listener

2:13

, discretion is advised . As always , this is safe

2:15

for work , but in terms of content

2:17

, you may just want to self-police

2:19

on this just a little bit , but

2:21

it's such a fun episode . Morgan

2:24

is wonderful and brilliant

2:26

And I had so much fun actually getting to meet

2:29

her in person , to talk with her . We

2:31

actually have known each other for a little while just through some

2:33

of our science , communication and

2:35

social media stuff , but you

2:38

are going to love this one . I am glad

2:40

to be back at this and putting

2:42

new content out there . So get

2:44

yourself ready for episode 98

2:46

of the Planthypology podcast with my friend Morgan

2:49

Johnson , also known as

2:51

Ask a Neuroscientist ["A

2:58

New World"] . Well

3:02

, morgan , i am so excited that you

3:05

made the long drive up And I know you

3:07

didn't drive here all the way the six

3:09

hours for this , but

3:12

I'm pretending like you did .

3:13

Yeah , take that . Just assume that

3:16

I'm that passionate

3:18

about this podcast .

3:19

Yeah , no , it makes me feel good . So

3:21

that's what I'm going with , but thanks

3:24

so much for coming in today . I'm really excited

3:26

to talk to you . I'm excited for our

3:28

listeners to hear sort of a different take and a different

3:31

sort of angle into plant science

3:33

. But to start

3:35

off with , why don't you introduce yourself , tell us about

3:37

you and what

3:40

you did growing up and what got you

3:42

interested in science and where you are today ?

3:45

Yeah , so my name is Morgan Johnston . I am

3:47

currently a behavioral neuroscientist

3:49

, meaning that I study how

3:52

our brains generate the behaviors that

3:54

we do , And

3:56

I guess my journey to science

3:58

. Whenever I was young

4:00

I grew up in like a really small , like

4:02

farming community , small town , and you know those

4:06

people tend to have certain opinions about

4:08

women in science , And

4:10

so for a long time I was told that I

4:12

couldn't go into science or

4:15

that like I was too smart for my

4:17

own good And so I had to kind of like

4:19

push past that And eventually

4:21

I wound up like going to a school in the city , that

4:23

sort of like , more so fostered the

4:26

science scientists in me And

4:28

actually my senior year of high school I ended up doing

4:30

research on a medical campus studying

4:33

traumatic brain injuries And then I

4:35

went to my undergrad at Oklahoma

4:37

State University And they're

4:39

a big land grant university . They

4:41

have a lot of like horticulture and plants

4:43

and landscaping stuff there And

4:46

while I was there I was engaged in a lot of basic

4:49

research . And the difference between like basic

4:51

and like medical research is that basic

4:53

research , sort of focused , was more on like how

4:56

do things function ? in general

4:58

versus medical research . you're like trying to find a cure

5:00

for everything And I think that sort of

5:02

helped me see like the importance of looking

5:05

at sort of like the more what

5:07

someone who studies like bodies

5:09

would consider like the basics of things

5:11

like how do the nutrients

5:14

that we eat affect us , that we

5:16

just sort of like take for granted ? How

5:18

do like how are plants able

5:20

to interact with us when

5:22

they're not made of the same stuff that humans ? are made of

5:24

Like they have different cells , they have different things going

5:27

on . So there I was

5:29

involved in really basic research looking

5:31

at social interactions , And

5:33

then I came to Texas

5:35

to do my graduate research . So right now

5:37

I'm a third year PhD student at

5:40

a Texas institution that I

5:42

won't dox .

5:43

That's fine .

5:45

But now I'm studying how

5:47

different drugs interact with our brain . One

5:50

of those drugs is cocaine . I also

5:52

have sort of a interest in looking

5:55

at marijuana or cannabis or weed

5:57

or whatever people want to call it . I

5:59

have colleagues who are interested in like magic mushroom

6:01

type stuff , lsd And

6:04

just looking at , like , how these different substances are

6:06

able to make us feel

6:09

certain ways and have

6:11

certain experiences that maybe , like we're

6:13

not physically going through

6:15

.

6:16

psychedelics is like what I'm trying to say in like a science

6:18

way .

6:20

Yeah , so that's why I look at now And I also

6:22

look a lot at stress which stress

6:24

is something that impacts all of us And

6:27

also something that's really big in like

6:29

. how do we make stress have

6:31

less effects on people ?

6:33

Interesting Well that , as

6:35

a PhD student , I feel like that is probably

6:38

something that's relevant to your life is how

6:40

do you reduce the load of stress on

6:42

yourself ? just in general

6:44

.

6:45

Yeah , i'm very lucky A lot of our students have to

6:47

start their talks with like , oh , why should anyone have

6:49

to care about this ? Why do I care about

6:51

a certain cell , what it's doing

6:53

, and I get to start all my talks with

6:55

? we're all stressed .

6:57

Yeah , instantly relatable . Instantly

7:00

relatable , especially like in any academic

7:02

setting , like if you go to a conference

7:04

like everyone looks tired . Everyone's

7:06

just stressed out all the time . It's like the three

7:09

days you get out of a lab or out of whatever

7:11

, and so we're all stressed . Yeah

7:14

yes , we are . Yes , we are . So you

7:16

have and I was kind of reading

7:18

through your experience earlier and you

7:20

have two bachelor's degrees . Is that correct

7:22

?

7:23

Right , yeah , so my first bachelor's degree

7:25

is in biology and my second is in

7:27

physiology . So

7:30

basically about halfway

7:32

through my biology degree I decided this

7:35

isn't easy enough and I want to take more classes

7:37

. So I took

7:39

enough to get the second physiology degree , also

7:41

because Oklahoma State University doesn't have a neuroscience

7:44

program . So but I think

7:46

that benefited me in a lot of ways , because a lot of people

7:48

who study purely neuroscience

7:50

they get sort of what we call tunnel

7:52

vision , like they're very focused on

7:54

that versus I feel like I'm able to have more like a

7:56

holistic view of the body and I can bring up like

7:58

how the heart might be involved in certain stuff

8:00

and things like that .

8:02

That's really interesting . And I mean for

8:04

sure because I think , and I like what you were talking

8:06

about earlier a little bit about

8:09

basic versus medical

8:11

research or applied research . So

8:14

I'm very much an applied scientist . My work

8:16

has always been at sort of macro

8:18

level , systems level . We

8:21

were kind of talking off mic before we

8:23

started about how in plant science

8:25

we do things that , like you , couldn't get away within any

8:28

other biological science . It's like I'm

8:30

going to stick this tree in a bag . I am going

8:32

to not water one of these for

8:34

three months .

8:36

And let's see what happens Right , which I absolutely

8:38

could not get away with with my animals No

8:40

, no , no , i don't want to . I don't want to

8:42

get away with that .

8:43

There would be some , yeah some probably unpleasant

8:46

phone calls to deal with from IUcock and different

8:48

different groups from from that , But you

8:52

know so . So a lot of my work has been

8:54

, you know , if we

8:56

induce physiological

8:58

environmental stress on plants . Well

9:00

, my master's work was more physiological , But

9:03

since then it's born , I'm like how long does

9:05

it take this thing to not do the thing it's supposed

9:07

to be doing ? Yeah , when I don't

9:09

water it or leave it in the sun or whatever , Well

9:12

, something that's really interesting .

9:13

I follow this lady on TikTok who studies like

9:15

stress in corn plants , and it's

9:18

so funny to me because wherever you guys say stress

9:20

, you mean I don't water it or like I leave it

9:22

on in the sun for too long . And wherever I say stress

9:24

, i mean like I put my rats in a little tube and

9:26

they get stressed out . So

9:29

the first time I saw it I was like how do you stress a plant ? They

9:32

don't have the same emotion .

9:33

Yeah , no , no . But it is interesting though because

9:35

it you know and again , i am not

9:37

an animal biologist in

9:40

any stretch of the imagination But

9:42

you know , we see in plants that we

9:44

induce different stressors , from

9:46

whether it is introducing

9:49

pests , whether there are

9:52

things being withheld like fertility or water

9:54

or sunlight or whatever . It

9:57

is interesting to me as someone

9:59

who is stressed 85%

10:03

of my life . You know some of the

10:05

sort of coping

10:08

mechanisms , and that is not the right way to talk

10:11

about plants , but some of the things that

10:13

plants physiologically do to cope with

10:15

. That is sort

10:17

of an interesting parallel in some ways . Do

10:20

, i think , like animal biology ? like

10:22

, oh , we will . If we exclude

10:24

sunlight , they will do things like the stems get

10:26

longer and they will try to , you know , get into

10:28

the sun . Or if we restrict

10:30

water , sometimes they will shed the larger

10:33

leaves because that is where all the water is lost from , and

10:35

things like that . So they do have actually

10:37

very , sometimes very quick

10:39

, stress responses . It

10:41

is just not like an emotional response

10:44

, it is just sort of a okay , the

10:46

environment is doing this , so I am going to do this kind

10:48

of thing .

10:49

Right , and humans and animals have , like our

10:51

I say like a physical stress

10:53

response versus like sort of like an emotional or

10:55

like a neurological stress response . And

10:57

so , like humans , for example , if they go

10:59

through like a famine and they like

11:02

aren't able to eat for very long , then

11:04

their cells will start to like

11:06

retain more nutrients , and

11:08

so then you actually end up gaining weight from not

11:10

having as much food because your body is trying

11:12

to like store that , And that can be like generations

11:15

down the line . people struggle with like

11:17

being perceived as like overweight by society

11:20

because their ancestors were

11:22

starved .

11:24

Huh , that's fascinating

11:26

. I actually died No idea . That's really

11:28

what it's really interesting that that passes

11:31

down through sort of the The genetic

11:33

line as well , like it's something that affects us

11:35

at the like DNA level .

11:37

And that's something that happens like mentally too , like

11:40

um , we have seen

11:42

in like I , if you look over the course

11:44

of years that Like mental health is deteriorating

11:46

. Like young people have the worst mental

11:49

health now than like they have ever

11:51

ever yeah yeah , and It

11:53

can actually like compound , like if your

11:55

grandparents had anxiety

11:58

and then your Parents had anxiety

12:00

and then you have anxiety likely it's getting like degrees

12:02

worse throughout . Well , what's really neat

12:04

or not so neat for the people who struggle

12:06

with this ? But interesting is that

12:08

it's not always the same . So

12:10

people think of like mental illness as genetic

12:13

, because I can get passed on this way . But

12:15

, um , say , like your grandma

12:17

had schizophrenia , your then mother

12:19

might not have schizophrenia , maybe

12:22

she has generalized anxiety disorder and

12:24

then maybe you have obsessive compulsive disorder

12:26

. So you all resulted in

12:28

a mental illness , but not necessarily

12:30

the exact same one .

12:31

Wow , that's they are . That is really interesting . And you

12:33

know , with plants we tend to think of some

12:35

more . You know , direct heredity

12:38

of , or Inheritance

12:41

of , traits like okay , this plant had . You

12:43

know , if we want to get real simple , like

12:45

this pea plant , has white flowers , this one , you

12:48

know , if we want to look at just Mendelian genetics

12:50

, but at the same time too , we we've

12:52

got a plant in the garden right now that

12:54

We're starting to see some striping

12:56

on some of the new flowers that are coming out and

12:59

that is usually induced by environmental

13:01

stress or a

13:03

virus . You know that is messing with

13:05

the transposons in the , in the

13:07

, the genes , but

13:10

that's something that gets carried forward . So

13:13

if you've ever seen like a rose that has marbling

13:15

in the in the flower , that's usually

13:17

virally induced , but then you can carry

13:19

it on down through the genetic line .

13:21

That's really interesting because I know I have a friend who like

13:23

collects a Lot of plants . I know those are like really highly

13:25

sought after the one that once I have that

13:27

marbling . So , kind of

13:29

crazy that that comes from stress .

13:31

Yeah , it's , it's a , you know , some

13:33

kind of either a pathogen or there's a lot

13:35

of ways it happens . But yeah , you know , and

13:38

I'm thinking about it now , we do see inherited

13:41

traits , that that get

13:43

carried on , even just like well , and when we do

13:45

drought stress research Which is actually a lot of what

13:47

we do here because , as you may have noticed , driving

13:49

in it is dry . Yeah

13:52

, and there's endless and less nothing

13:54

. You know , we have to figure

13:56

out how do our crop plants , how do our

13:58

other things survive

14:01

, that , and we can Do

14:03

it through breeding work . But , you know , some of it's

14:05

just selection pressure , natural

14:07

selection pressure . Some of it though is , you

14:09

know , we induce changes based

14:11

on environment . That's just , i don't know . I

14:13

think that I Sort of the

14:15

more I learn about biology one , the more

14:18

I realize I don't understand about biology because

14:20

it's so complex , but

14:22

two , about how we see certain

14:25

biological things that hold up

14:27

across Even kingdoms

14:29

, you know biology .

14:32

Yeah , i think it's really interesting , like I

14:34

was looking up recently , because so

14:36

I'm talking about like cannabis

14:38

stuff You in your body have something

14:41

called like the endocannabinoid system

14:43

and for a long time I was like , wow

14:45

, we really have like a system that's purely

14:47

dedicated to people who smoke weed . But

14:51

actually the way that it came about and

14:53

like I think the way that a lot of these similarities

14:55

between , like humans and plants came About , is

14:57

because we evolved together

14:59

. We sort of just evolved the same traits

15:01

, like naturally . So in your

15:03

body you have molecules that resemble

15:06

like THC or like CBD , but

15:08

also like the cannabis

15:10

plant also just independently

15:13

developed those same molecules , which

15:15

is really nifty and so like , like , same for

15:17

like these coping stress , coping

15:19

mechanisms of . Like

15:23

what to do wherever there's a drought . Humans had

15:25

to figure that out , plants had to figure that out . We

15:27

all have been living on this earth together

15:29

, going through .

15:30

Yeah , yeah , and that's yeah , and that's a fascinating

15:32

thing , and I think that's maybe something

15:34

that In general now

15:36

I'm not saying like by science , but

15:38

by people just in general , like this may

15:40

be not well understood about evolution

15:42

. That it's . It is a response to

15:45

the things that stress us out right as

15:47

a species .

15:48

I get asked all the time So there's

15:50

in your Skull that

15:52

supposedly like protects your brains . You

15:55

have some spiky bits that like if your brain

15:57

hits those then you get brain damage . Yeah

15:59

, and people ask me all the time . They're like well , why

16:01

would we evolve that ? because that's not

16:04

helpful . And I just have to like evolution

16:06

is not working towards like the most helpful

16:08

thing . It's working towards like what

16:11

is helpful in this moment , not what

16:13

is going to be helpful for the long term . And so

16:15

your skull evolved to help you

16:17

get through puberty and that sort of its main

16:19

goal And then , past that

16:21

, your body doesn't really care about you .

16:23

Yeah , yeah , that's really , yeah , that's interesting . So

16:27

, talking about your current research

16:29

, okay , so You

16:31

know , when you're looking at all these different plant

16:33

compounds , all these different , just You

16:36

know , i say plant compounds and you made up a

16:38

good point that like everything

16:40

is kind of plants , like everything

16:42

kind of comes from plants .

16:44

Exactly like I was shocked recently . I was telling

16:46

one of my friends that was gonna be coming on the podcast

16:48

and like , initially , wherever you asked

16:51

me if I knew anything about plants , the only plant that I can

16:53

think of was cannabis . But then I

16:55

was talking to my friends about this and they were like , oh well , you also

16:57

studied cocaine and cocaine comes from

16:59

a plant . And I was like , oh my god , it does

17:02

the . Like the vast majority

17:04

of the medicines and the drugs that we have at

17:06

some point did come from a plant , like

17:08

Nowadays I want to say it's

17:10

like around 70% that did

17:12

come from a plant originally , but now we make

17:15

synthetic . But if we hadn't

17:17

had that plant to begin with , we would never

17:19

have figured out those drugs . And

17:21

the vast majority of Neuroscience

17:24

and like the type of research that I do , which

17:26

is called neuro pharmacology , which just means

17:28

we're looking at drugs in the brain , is

17:30

based on like how are these

17:33

plants able to affect

17:35

us ? like Human

17:37

, see a plant , they consume it . The

17:39

plant has an effect right . Why

17:42

? why would that plant have an effect on us ? What is

17:44

it doing ? And that's how we managed to figure out

17:46

. A lot of the body is just looking at like Oh

17:48

, if we change this thing , in this case

17:50

, eating a plant , how did ? what

17:52

did it do ?

17:54

Yeah , it's really interesting . I think I think about that

17:56

a lot from a so I study

17:58

food quite a bit , so from a food standpoint

18:01

, i think about that a lot and that's come up on here

18:03

before . But , like , so

18:05

much of what we know just came through observation

18:08

of like Bill ate that plant and

18:10

Now what's going on with Bill

18:12

? like Oh , no , bill's dead . And then like

18:14

maybe we don't eat this plant again or you

18:17

know , there were some kind of

18:19

Positive effect from it . It's like , oh

18:21

, we need to figure out why . And you know , for

18:23

a long time I think we just did things because it

18:25

worked and we just did things and , you

18:27

know , over the past I don't know a few hundred

18:29

years , we've really started drilling into . What

18:32

does that mean ? Like , what does it mean for us ? What does it mean

18:35

as a global ecosystem ?

18:37

Exactly And , like I don't really want to like

18:39

discourage anyone's faith in medicine because , like

18:41

modern medicine is the best that's ever been . Sure

18:43

but we still to some extent do

18:45

that , like we see medications that we

18:47

make for a specific population , like

18:50

we still to this day , or like we

18:52

see something have an effect and we're like , huh

18:54

, maybe I want that effect , maybe we should use

18:56

it and maybe we don't know exactly why . Like SSRI

19:00

is serotonin selective serotonin

19:02

reuptake inhibitors that are commonly prescribed

19:04

for depression . We know

19:06

that they selectively reduce

19:08

the amount of serotonin . That's Sort

19:11

of like put in the trash bin and you're in

19:13

your head So you have more serotonin lying around

19:15

, but we don't know why that

19:18

helps . We don't know why that helps , or

19:20

why it like helps some people and why it doesn't help other people

19:22

. We just saw

19:24

that it does help some people and so

19:26

we should use it . We should use it .

19:28

That's really interesting too , and I think , and

19:30

what I don't want people to hear , because

19:32

I know , being a scientist , i know

19:34

what people hear sometimes is like well , they're

19:36

just like trying stuff and exactly , and the

19:39

fact is like , well , i mean kind of kind

19:41

of , but like we rigorously

19:43

test these things right .

19:45

Exactly . It's not anymore like the way that we

19:47

developed the smallpox vaccines where we were like let's

19:49

pull in a child off the street .

19:51

Right , give them a vaccine nowadays

19:53

.

19:53

Yeah , we have like the FDA , we have ethics

19:55

committees , we have like all sorts of stuff

19:57

that we go through and we're trying things

20:00

. It's always an educated Yes

20:02

like we're not like what would happen

20:05

if we give a depressed person a blueberry .

20:07

We have no evidence to do that study right

20:10

, right , well , and you

20:12

know there's a lot of research coming out , sort

20:14

of on the plant side of um

20:17

. We look at psychology and human physiology

20:19

of how much evil . So

20:21

it's always sounded kind

20:23

of like intuitive , like go outside

20:26

, you'll feel better . Yeah like I know as

20:28

a kid , like if I was just like moping around the house

20:30

, he'd be like go play outside , like just go

20:32

outside , get some sunlight , get some , you know , be around the plants

20:34

. But there's more research starting to come out of

20:36

like we're kind of like you made a good point earlier that you

20:39

know we co-evolved with these plants

20:41

, all these different organisms and it's . You

20:44

know , at some point we convince ourselves that

20:46

we're so other Yeah

20:48

but like we have these evolutionary

20:50

relationships And so like we

20:52

have receptors in our brain that can detect

20:55

the volatile organic compounds

20:57

that plants are putting out to like message each

21:00

other and like bugs and things , and

21:02

like it does have physiological effects

21:04

, just like Be an outside .

21:06

Yeah , there's like parts of our brain that

21:08

, since sunlight , that like want

21:11

to be in the sunlight for a certain period of time

21:13

, and there's been I don't even know

21:15

how many studies on like the benefits of having

21:17

like a potted plant in the lab , a potted

21:19

plant in your office , um , just

21:21

like be around it . and yeah

21:23

, not to be like too hippity-dippity , but yeah

21:25

, i definitely feel a lot better

21:28

whenever I go outside . And it's upsetting

21:30

sometimes because your therapist will be like Go , spend

21:32

like 30 minutes outside and you'll feel better . And

21:34

then you do it and you do feel better .

21:36

I can't believe that worked . I could have been doing

21:38

this the whole time . No

21:40

, and like there's a whole thing on tick tock right now

21:42

. If people like going outside like I'm going outside

21:44

to take a Stupid walk for my stupid mental health

21:47

and mad because it works .

21:49

And I do that all the time . If an experiment is not working

21:51

properly , i go outside and we have a

21:53

I've discovered on my campus like

21:55

a nice little secluded area That's just like a

21:57

bunch of trees that no one goes in for some reason

21:59

. And so I'll just like if I'm really

22:02

angry at like my boss , who I would never

22:04

be angry at in my entire life , or

22:06

like if my experiments aren't working properly , i'll just

22:08

like go outside and sit in some trees for a little while

22:10

, and then it's better . It's better

22:12

.

22:13

Yeah , it's simple . if nothing else , right , it's

22:15

like I don't know I've

22:17

. I have always found comfort in just like

22:19

being alone

22:21

in nature , for even if it's five or 10 minutes

22:23

, like some days , especially

22:26

on stressful days like I'll go grab lunch or I'll

22:28

take lunch and just go sit at the park and

22:30

just like eat lunch outside by myself for 10 minutes

22:32

, and it kind of resets my brain a little

22:34

bit and lets me get back into my day .

22:37

I also think there's a part of our self that's sort

22:39

of like . You're sort of like tricking your brain

22:41

into thinking that everything is okay by going

22:43

outside , like in our modern

22:45

world , like the office is a stressful environment

22:48

. Our brains are really good at picking up on

22:50

cues and the different

22:52

things that signal danger especially

22:54

. And so if , like , you've been in your office

22:56

stressed for a whole week , your brain is gonna start

22:58

to associate your office with stress . But

23:01

if you're , like , not typically stressed outside

23:03

, you know that whenever you go take these like 30 minute walks

23:05

so you feel better than whenever you

23:07

go outside you're telling your brain hey , we're in a safe

23:10

place , we're in a happy place , we're gonna

23:12

be happy now , and your

23:14

body sort of follows along . Your brain is incredibly

23:16

good at tricking your whole body into

23:18

thinking either you're okay or you're in

23:20

danger , and we can use that to our advantage

23:22

. It can also incredibly hurt us a lot .

23:26

Yeah , that's interesting . So

23:29

, to the degree you can , I'd

23:31

like to hear more about your research . Again , like don't

23:33

scoop yourself and like this is everything

23:35

that I've done and here's all my data , But

23:38

like I'm really curious to hear , like

23:40

, what are you looking

23:42

at with these different compounds ?

23:44

Right . So in my lab we sort of have

23:46

several different projects that we work on

23:48

. The big one is

23:50

looking at , like , exactly

23:53

what cocaine is doing to the

23:55

brain is sort of like our main thing

23:57

, because , like , some people are able

23:59

to take cocaine once or

24:02

twice and not become addicted to it , other

24:04

people are very dependent on it And

24:06

so what is it doing to the brain

24:08

to create that dependency ? And

24:10

then also we're specifically

24:13

like looking at a different set of

24:15

neurons than people normally look at , or

24:17

I should say , a different set of brain cells . So

24:19

in your brain people

24:21

think that like all brain cells are

24:23

neurons , but actually only

24:26

about half of them are neurons and

24:28

the other half are what are called glia

24:31

And that's they

24:34

used to be thought of as like support system for

24:36

your brain And so that's why , like , no one really thinks about

24:38

them , or talks about them

24:40

Cause they were like I was just like the structure of your

24:42

brain . But nowadays people

24:44

are discovering oh no , it actually has a purpose

24:47

And there's a reason why our brains developed

24:49

those . And so people

24:51

are looking more at their role in

24:54

addiction , because they

24:56

haven't been studied much in the past . And

24:58

then also we're looking at how stress

25:00

might so like people who are

25:02

in stressful situations are more likely to relapse

25:04

. And so why

25:07

? And is there something

25:09

that we can do to help people

25:11

in that situation ? Is there maybe

25:13

like a medication that we could administer to

25:15

like help them not feel

25:18

if either feel the stress or

25:20

feel the need to relapse

25:22

if they are stressed ? And

25:24

then , separately from

25:27

that , I also just study generally how

25:29

stress impacts our behavior

25:31

. So a really

25:33

interesting finding from our lab that's published

25:35

. so I can say it is

25:38

that stress can actually enhance

25:40

learning , so you can actually learn

25:42

better when you are stressed , and probably

25:45

that evolved because you need to

25:47

know what the danger is . So

25:49

but what's really neat is that it also

25:51

works for rewards , so you

25:53

can also learn where the good things are very easily if

25:55

you're stressed . Yeah , yeah yeah , which

25:57

sounds brilliant And a lot of professors get really

25:59

excited when they say that because they're like our students

26:02

are stressed . But what's

26:04

not so good is that it

26:07

inhibits flexibility And so

26:09

, like , the way that we look at that is sort

26:12

of like let's say you have like a coffee shop that you

26:14

really love and you go to it all the time

26:16

You're really stressed

26:18

, you go to your favorite coffee shop . They don't

26:20

have your coffee anymore . There is a coffee shop

26:22

across the street that does have coffee , but

26:24

you're not really used to them . If

26:27

you are stressed , you're less likely to

26:29

sort of change your behavior . You're more likely to sort of

26:31

like sit there and be grumpy that your shop is

26:33

out of coffee and just sort of

26:35

like be upset and sort of builds

26:37

on that stress Versus . If you're not

26:39

stressed , you're just gonna like practically go

26:42

across the street to the other coffee shop . So

26:45

that's another aspect of our research . And then

26:47

, like I said , I have like colleagues and friends who are looking into

26:49

it more , like the cannabis and the elixir

26:51

.

26:52

Well , and that's really interesting And I think that

26:54

you know , and

26:56

it's interesting to talk about in our sort

26:58

of like current

27:00

social and political climate

27:03

, when some of these things are so divisive

27:06

in a lot of ways .

27:08

Oh yeah , what's been incredibly interesting for

27:10

me ? working in a lab that studies cocaine . So

27:12

cocaine is obviously an incredibly addictive

27:14

drug . It's really highly

27:16

monitored by the DEA . Our lab has to

27:18

have inspections by the government to make sure that

27:20

we're not like stealing any . It's

27:23

all very intense And

27:25

I asked my boss one time hey , why don't

27:27

we also study marijuana ? Wouldn't that be really

27:29

interesting ? There's a lot of really cool research

27:31

going on in like Colorado And

27:34

he was like it is so much

27:36

easier to have cocaine in the lab than it would

27:38

be to get marijuana .

27:39

Yeah , like That's , wild .

27:41

The approval system for it . He was just like . It's not

27:43

even worth it to go through that system

27:45

.

27:46

Well , and you know there's work going into

27:48

in a lot of these things . it's

27:50

just sort of like in some

27:52

ways a matter of time And I think having

27:54

the research infrastructure

27:56

to study some of these things is really

27:59

important , like we do work in

28:01

industrial hemp right

28:03

. So like we grow it , we

28:05

research it for like fibers for

28:07

a lot of uses . It's actually a really

28:10

useful plant .

28:12

But that's like the separation that people use

28:14

of like you can grow hemp , but you can't

28:16

grow weed . And what's really like

28:18

. I just got done reading a really interesting review

28:21

article on how , like , neuroscience

28:23

has also treated it as like a very separate issue , because

28:26

it is fairly easy to get approved

28:28

to use like THC , like

28:31

pure THC or like pure CBV

28:33

, but to actually get cannabis

28:36

is like the difficult part of it . But

28:39

, like , because of that , a lot

28:41

of people will study separately , like THC

28:43

and CBD , which you're gonna get both of

28:45

those , and so we have less

28:47

knowledge about what they do together , which

28:49

is like the relevant information .

28:52

That is yeah , and that is really interesting , And

28:54

I think that you know that makes an interesting point

28:56

. when we talk about our health , when we talk

28:58

about the

29:01

things we consume , whatever that is , food

29:03

, or stimulants

29:06

, or depressor , whatever , it is like

29:08

none of this exists in a vacuum .

29:10

Yeah .

29:11

Like we are complicated

29:14

meat robots or

29:17

whatever And it's like , no , we have

29:19

to look at like a total system thing , like

29:21

the individual research is important . But

29:23

I like the idea that , no , we

29:25

should be looking at this stuff holistically , like how did

29:27

these things work together ? What compounding

29:30

effects both either positive or negative

29:32

do they have ?

29:33

Right . What's incredible is so many people who study

29:35

things like addiction often will look

29:37

at like , okay , if we get a rat addicted to

29:39

cocaine , what happens ? But they don't look

29:41

at like , okay , well then , if the rat is stressed

29:43

or something else happened , if the rat has

29:46

a friend , versus if it doesn't have a friend , what happens

29:48

? And nowadays we're getting a lot better

29:50

at acknowledging that aspect

29:52

of it . But it can be really interesting

29:55

that , like a lot of times they'll find

29:57

like the key to even like

29:59

like any form of substance abuse or

30:01

even sorry substance

30:03

use , any form of

30:05

that can be reduced if

30:08

you just have a friend if you just have a buddy to have

30:10

a social support system . But

30:12

because we were studying like all of these things separately

30:14

for so long , it was like , oh , why won't this medication

30:17

work in some people , but we'll work in others ? And

30:19

the key was adding in that social support

30:21

.

30:21

Wow , that's really interesting , Really fascinating

30:24

stuff . So I have maybe and

30:26

you can take this

30:28

question how you want as someone

30:30

who studies stress , have you

30:33

found good

30:35

like techniques

30:38

for dealing with it ? Like

30:40

I know you're looking more at the like physiological

30:43

, psychological effects of it , but like

30:45

, has that led you to any conclusions in your

30:47

own life of like how you deal with that ?

30:49

So this is gonna be really ironic coming from

30:51

someone who studies sort of like drug effects

30:54

in their brain , but honestly , i think the

30:56

most important thing that people can do

30:58

is like trick your brain into thinking

31:00

you're not stressed . So , whether

31:02

that is , people have found that placebos

31:05

can be incredibly effective

31:08

in this area . So even if

31:10

, literally , you can know that something

31:13

is a placebo and will still have the placebo effect on

31:15

you . So if you go , wow , i'm really

31:17

stressed , this Eminem is

31:19

gonna make me not stressed , and then you take

31:21

it like a pill , it's going to

31:23

help reduce your stress . If you

31:25

can do some breathing exercises and

31:27

tell your body , hey , we're not trying to run away from

31:30

a lion right now , we're totally calm

31:32

, everything is good , that's

31:34

going to reduce your stress . You're not gonna feel as bad

31:36

anymore . Really , just tricking

31:38

your brain into thinking that you're okay can

31:41

make you think that you're okay , sort

31:44

of . In my opinion , the key to

31:46

all of this Now , none of that is to say

31:48

that people shouldn't be taking medications . I'm very openly

31:51

on medications for anxiety . So , like

31:53

, but what I'm talking about is specifically

31:56

like , like . Stress and anxiety are

31:58

two very different cities . Stress is something that happens

32:00

like in your office , wherever you have like a due date

32:02

.

32:02

Anxiety is like a constant all the time . thing Right

32:05

.

32:06

But yeah , just , and then also learning your individual

32:08

coping mechanisms , because something that I see

32:10

even among my rats rats

32:12

are incredibly useful tool to

32:14

study human behavior , because actually

32:18

humans are just big rats , in my

32:20

opinion .

32:21

I like that , yep .

32:23

Our brains work a little bit differently , but

32:25

in general I can say what would I

32:27

do ? And then my rat usually makes

32:29

the same decision that I would make . And

32:32

but what's really interesting is there's

32:34

variations . Like some rats , we

32:36

put them through the stressful situation and

32:38

they come out of it and change . They're like totally

32:41

fine , nothing bad happened . And some go through

32:43

it and it was the end of the world for

32:45

them . And so we

32:48

do all this ethically , with approval .

32:49

No , right , right , right of course .

32:51

But the point of that is know yourself

32:54

Like you are going to respond differently

32:56

to stress than other people are , and

32:59

the important thing is to know what is normal

33:01

for you and what you can do that helps

33:03

. Whether or not it reduces someone else's stress

33:06

is irrelevant . If your friends look at you and they're

33:08

like why are you telling yourself that Eminem's going to

33:11

cure your stress ? Like

33:13

that's their problem , That's not your problem . If

33:15

it reduces your stress . It reduces your stress

33:17

.

33:17

No , that's so interesting And I love the

33:19

fact that you

33:21

can even know that that's what you're

33:23

doing to yourself , like you can even know , like

33:26

I am telling

33:28

myself that these Eminems are good for me , or that they're

33:31

good for my stress , and your body's just like all

33:33

right sure Your brain is

33:35

incredibly good at tricking you . That's

33:37

really interesting to me . I really like that And

33:40

that's good advice . I think the idea that

33:43

for any of these things , that it's like a one size

33:45

fits all kind of thing , like I just don't think that

33:47

works .

33:48

That's why I think too many people are looking for

33:50

like the cure . I think the most

33:52

relevant example that I've ever heard is like there's not

33:54

going to be a single cure for cancer . It's going to be

33:57

a different cure for each type of cancer That

33:59

can apply to everything . Like there's not

34:01

going to be a single cure for stress . It's going to depend

34:04

on who you are , what type of stress you're facing

34:06

. There's not going to be a single way to grow

34:08

your crops . It depends on what type of crop you're growing

34:10

. There's not a single best

34:12

way to do anything . It's very individualistic

34:15

.

34:15

No , i love that And it's like , and

34:18

I know , as humans or as researchers

34:20

, we like to both , you know

34:22

, not just reason , i mean , everything is sort

34:24

of a .

34:26

What do you mean ? researchers or robots ?

34:28

Well , yeah , no right , yeah , and we write like

34:30

that right . Yeah , which

34:32

is the dumbest thing , but like

34:34

and I guess everything is sort of a I

34:38

don't want to say it an effect of like

34:40

we can say well , research is like this , but research

34:42

is like this because we're like this right , like it's

34:45

an effect of how we are .

34:47

Yeah , there's been a lot of issues that I've taken with

34:49

academia . I know like

34:51

there have always been problems with academia

34:53

, but I particularly am

34:55

of like sort of a younger generation and we sort

34:57

of came in or like , wow , this is

34:59

all bad and are like trying to fix it . And

35:02

the main pushback that I get anytime

35:05

I try to fight something is well , this is how we

35:07

do it in research , This is how we do it in neuroscience

35:09

. I'm like , but why ? And

35:12

like we're all people , neuroscience isn't some

35:14

giant concept . It's human beings studying

35:16

it . Like we can change it , We can do

35:18

things differently , but some

35:21

people don't want to do that .

35:22

No , i get it . No , i understand it . I'm

35:24

with you . I think that you know there are things that , like

35:26

, when we see that they need to be changed , they

35:28

need to be changed . And one of those things which

35:30

I think , where I started going with that before I

35:32

came quickly off the rails

35:34

, which is , for anyone listening to this show knows

35:36

, like , that's just how I am . That's the

35:38

fun of it . It's the fun of it , right ? We

35:41

like to distill things down

35:43

to like very simple

35:45

answers to a point in space because they're easy

35:47

to digest , right , like , do this ? this

35:50

is what happened . Water your plants and they're happy . Okay

35:52

, but that's . There's more than that , right ? How often

35:54

do you water ? in what context ? How heavily

35:56

? like what kind of soil is it in

35:58

? And like we don't like

36:00

to let complicated

36:02

things be complicated , and

36:05

I think that what

36:07

you're talking about , in the way that you're talking

36:09

about approaching it , i think is very much that Like let's

36:12

take these complex issues

36:14

and Let them be complicated

36:17

and try to tackle them as a

36:19

whole , which I think is really cool .

36:21

Yeah , but I think part of the issue is that researchers

36:23

especially don't like not having answers

36:25

.

36:26

Right .

36:26

We got into this job specifically to get

36:28

answers And I'm sure , as

36:30

we both know , the more that you learn , the more

36:32

you learn that you don't know . So

36:35

I've even been told this wherever

36:37

I'm doing science communication , like

36:39

I do a lot of outreach work , and I'm

36:41

told that wherever I'm speaking , like to the general public , like

36:44

don't let them know when you don't know something , like

36:46

we need everyone to , like we need to show that

36:48

scientists know what we're talking about

36:50

And that it makes

36:52

people uncomfortable if they ask you a question and you go

36:54

.

36:54

we don't know .

36:56

No one knows that . we haven't looked at that . No one knows

36:58

, But that's the truth of it . No

37:00

one knows certain . there are certain things

37:02

about the world that no one knows . That's why researchers

37:04

still exist . Yeah And

37:07

yeah . it works that same way . Whenever we're writing our papers

37:09

, we're supposed to be like we found the one

37:11

solution to everything , And that's why you

37:13

should give me the Nobel Prize .

37:15

Right .

37:15

But yeah , there's not a single solution

37:17

, and that's okay .

37:19

That's okay And it needs to be okay . So

37:21

this seems like a good time to take a quick break

37:24

And when we come back we're going to talk a little bit about science

37:26

, communication and some of the other cool stuff that

37:28

Morgan does . Well

37:31

, hey , welcome to the midroll . As

37:33

always , i'm glad you're here , i'm glad you've made it

37:35

this far And I hope you're enjoying the episode

37:37

. If you want to connect with plant apology

37:40

, you can find me all the places on the social

37:42

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37:44

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37:46

plant apology , which is anthropology with appeal

37:48

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37:53

. You can also find me on Twitter , instagram

37:56

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37:58

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38:00

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38:02

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38:04

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38:06

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38:10

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38:13

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you want to be brutally honest , maybe don't

38:38

do that in a public forum . Shoot me an email

38:40

at plant apology pod at gmailcom

38:43

, and I would love to hear your thoughts concerns

38:45

ideas for new episodes or anything else

38:47

. If you want to financially support the show

38:50

, you can do that by me a coffee dot com slash

38:52

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38:54

price of a cup of coffee , you will literally buy me

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38:58

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39:00

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39:02

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39:04

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39:06

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39:08

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39:11

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39:13

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39:15

well . We're not picky . Speaking

39:17

of support , thanks so much to the Texas Tech Department

39:20

of Plant and Soil Science for supporting the

39:22

show and letting me do it and have

39:24

so much fun with it and so much freedom to do it . It

39:26

is a blessing in my life

39:28

and it has become such a huge part of my life , and

39:30

I could not do it without the support of

39:32

my department and my university . Thanks

39:35

so much to the pod fictance network for letting

39:37

me be on there And

39:40

with all the other cool family

39:42

of shows we have on podfix

39:44

. I don't have a trailer for you today

39:46

, but I wanted to give you a heads up about a couple of great

39:49

shows that are coming down the pike

39:51

. I don't know exactly when it's going to start , but

39:53

sometimes soon . Morgan , who you

39:55

have been listening to for the past little bit , is

39:58

going to start a show about science called the method

40:00

section , and I will probably be on

40:02

there at some point as well , and

40:04

don't you love to hear my voice ? You listen to this podcast

40:06

for a reason . Also , my buddy Chesco

40:08

, known far and wide across

40:11

Al Gore's interwebs as

40:13

the speech prof , has

40:15

a show coming out , i believe

40:17

on June 14 in

40:19

the year of our Lord , 2023 , called

40:21

bad advice Wednesdays . He gets asked

40:24

all the craziest questions on social

40:26

media And he started doing this thing

40:28

where he asks people to ask questions and

40:30

he gives them bad advice . So he's bringing

40:32

on different guests and celebrities and really

40:34

cool people and asking

40:37

them to help give bad advice

40:40

to you

40:42

, the listener . So you

40:44

know what you're getting into . It's hilarious . Chesco is

40:46

such a good dude And I know you would love that

40:48

show and you may hear my voice on there eventually

40:51

as well . He'll be slumming when he has

40:53

me on , but he may do it anyway . Anyway

40:55

, you people are great . Thanks for listening

40:57

, thanks for being a part of this , and let's jump back into

40:59

the second half of this episode . What do you think ? Yeah

41:02

, let's go . So

41:05

that's actually a great segue into talking

41:07

a little bit about the science communication work you

41:09

do , because that's something that like . So

41:11

we kind of got to know each other a

41:13

little bit through TikTok , maybe a discord

41:16

group , like all the kinds of stuff . Like

41:18

what made you want to do that ? Because

41:21

, objectively , like , we have a lot

41:23

of other things to do as researchers and scientists

41:25

and academics . But you know I'm

41:27

there with you , that I love doing it . But , like

41:29

for you , what was it that drew

41:31

you to science communication ?

41:33

So I grew up in

41:36

4-H , which I've heard other people on

41:38

your podcast talking about before , so I'm not going to go

41:40

too far into it , but one of the things

41:42

that was really instilled on me while I was on 4-H was public

41:44

speaking and like the importance of learning how to

41:46

do public speaking . Because

41:49

of that , i'm pretty comfortable like in front of a

41:51

crowd or like giving a presentation or

41:53

filming myself , and I know a lot

41:55

of people aren't like . a lot of incredibly smart

41:57

people who like have stuff

42:00

to share with the world aren't as comfortable

42:02

doing those things . So there needs to be

42:04

someone who is comfortable

42:06

with it to sort of like present it to people . I

42:08

think that's why the field of science communication is

42:10

incredibly important , because there are

42:12

scientists who are doing good , amazing work

42:14

who don't necessarily know how to communicate their

42:17

science or don't feel comfortable communicating

42:19

their science . So there needs to be a group of people who

42:21

like understand what they're doing and are

42:23

also okay presenting it . And so

42:25

that's sort of where I came

42:27

at it originally , and then I did a lot

42:30

of outreach work in

42:32

undergrad . where I was specifically , i

42:34

was part of a collegiate 4-H program

42:36

that went out to rural schools

42:39

and taught different like STEM activities to

42:41

kids to try to teach them different like

42:43

STEM concepts . It's awesome . Yeah

42:45

, we did a lot of engineering , which was way outside

42:47

of my house . I tried to teach them

42:50

how cars work

42:52

. I was like I don't know they work if you twist a rubber band

42:54

around the tires . But

42:57

I did my best And that was

42:59

a really impactful experience because

43:02

kids have the

43:04

best questions . that you ever hear

43:06

And they'll ask you completely off the

43:08

wall things , and so you get

43:10

a lot of practice . That's really useful

43:12

. And then , whenever I started doing

43:14

my graduate research

43:17

is exactly when COVID hit .

43:19

Oh , wow .

43:20

Yeah , so everyone was impacted by COVID

43:22

. The way that I was impacted is

43:24

like whenever I would normally have

43:26

like gone to school , a school was probably

43:29

the worst place you could be at that point

43:31

.

43:31

Yeah .

43:32

And so my actually my boss suggested

43:34

that I start a YouTube channel to try

43:36

to do some science communication , And

43:39

because of that I started my YouTube

43:41

channel and then I started a TikTok

43:43

to try to promote my YouTube channel and then it

43:45

became the main thing that I do And

43:49

originally I was one of those

43:51

people who saw TikTok as like a kids

43:53

app . My younger brother was on it

43:55

and I was like , oh , it's for stupid dances , i

43:58

would make fun of him for getting on it . And then , whenever

44:01

I hit 100 subscribers or 100 followers

44:03

, i sent him a screenshot and I was like , hey , look

44:05

, i'm on your stupid kids Right

44:08

And after being on it , i

44:10

see how incredibly important it is because

44:12

a lot of academics I don't know

44:14

how well this is known outside of the academic

44:16

circle use Twitter

44:18

. Their favorite academic Twitter is

44:20

like a huge thing And

44:23

I am not that good at Twitter , but I started

44:25

using TikTok and I realized a lot of graduate

44:27

students are on there , a lot of undergraduates And

44:29

even like high school students are on there and are totally

44:32

willing to learn science . They want to learn science And

44:34

there's people on there who are spreading misinformation

44:37

. People love it when you correct the misinformation

44:39

. They do like

44:42

like there's a , there's an audience for

44:44

it And , like the young people , they're

44:46

not using Twitter . They're not looking up

44:48

your research papers that you're sharing

44:50

. You're the academic Twitter

44:52

. You're only reaching other academics , right , which

44:54

is a really hot take .

44:56

No , no , no , I'm with you for sure .

44:59

So so I really like using TikTok as

45:01

a platform for science communication because you're able

45:03

to reach the younger people . The other thing that's

45:05

incredibly important for me , now that I've started

45:07

doing the online science communication , is

45:10

, like I said at the beginning , i came from a very

45:12

small town . I came from a town of about

45:14

200 people .

45:15

Oh , wow .

45:15

Yeah , so a tiny town And

45:18

one of the big things growing up I

45:20

had never seen a scientist aside

45:22

from like , maybe like a movie mad scientist

45:24

. The only scientist I could think of was like

45:26

a medical doctor , and so for a long

45:29

time I learned to be a medical doctor because that was all I could

45:31

think of . And then I got to college , i

45:33

discovered research and that's , i

45:37

realized , like that's the experience of a lot

45:39

of people came from small towns . They they haven't

45:41

seen what research is and

45:43

they don't have the opportunity to see us , like

45:45

there's not a big college , like

45:47

in their neighborhoods that they can go volunteer

45:49

at , and so by doing outreach

45:51

online , you're able to reach those

45:53

people who , like otherwise , would not

45:56

have been able to see a scientist . Like I

45:58

can't go visit every single small town that's

46:00

out there , but I can send links

46:02

to teachers , i can send my

46:04

videos to teachers , like , so

46:07

it's easier to get to those communities

46:09

that need it the most .

46:11

Yeah , and that's so important And you're right that , like

46:13

you know , we have . You know , lubbock

46:15

, where we are now , is a fairly large

46:17

city but like there's so much rural Texas

46:20

around here And yeah

46:23

, and it's interesting when they

46:25

come to campus for stuff

46:27

, like we've been doing the past few weeks

46:29

, there's a lot of FFA contests that go on

46:32

that happen on campus .

46:34

I saw some FFA kids at a Starbucks and I brought back

46:37

some memories .

46:38

In fact I hear at the greenhouse we there

46:41

was a contest this morning , there was one last weekend

46:43

, there was one the weekend before like it's

46:45

been hectic But

46:48

some of these kids coming out of , like

46:50

you said , towns with a couple hundred people , more

46:53

cows than humans in these towns , like

46:56

it's all so new

46:59

and big And it's so important

47:01

that they're exposed to it , but that is such

47:03

a small group of students that get

47:05

the opportunity to come and do it . So I love what you're

47:07

saying of like take the education

47:09

to them where they are , where it needs to

47:11

be .

47:12

Right And the groups of students who do stuff like that

47:14

. I get asked a lot . I get a lot

47:16

of research grants based on having come from

47:18

a rural community , because there's not a

47:20

lot of people from rural backgrounds in

47:22

science where typically

47:25

, like I've experienced

47:27

some discrimination based on just purely being from

47:29

like a small town And then also

47:31

, like I said , like there's not a nearby

47:33

university , not a lot of people from small towns like

47:35

end up going to college because of like

47:37

money and stuff .

47:39

Yeah .

47:40

And so the

47:43

thing is , though , people will ask me like oh

47:45

, how did you get out ? And I'm like

47:47

it's not by anything

47:49

that I did . I was in an incredibly

47:51

privileged situation where I was in organizations

47:54

like 4-H . I was in FCCLA

47:56

Yeah , FCCLA

47:58

, which is like the home ec version

48:01

of . FFA Yeah and I

48:03

, and through those things I was able

48:05

to go to colleges and see things

48:07

as like a junior senior

48:09

in high school And those things

48:11

sort of propelled me towards college . There

48:14

were other kids who went to my high school

48:16

, who were just as intelligent as I

48:18

am , just as driven as I am , but maybe their

48:20

parents that have as much money as my parents sure . Their

48:24

parents weren't as like supportive of the idea of going

48:26

to college is mine . So yeah

48:28

, to be able to get things to those kids who

48:30

Don't have as many opportunities

48:32

as the more privileged kids is really important

48:35

to me .

48:36

Super cool , yeah , no , i love it . I love it . So

48:39

what I you know , and I asked

48:41

this question . I don't ask this question all the time

48:44

, but I ask it of People

48:46

in grad school a lot because

48:49

I think it's important for other people

48:51

listening , like , as you go through the process , like

48:53

this is . this is a big Undertaking

48:56

, right ? there's so much that goes into it , from

48:58

writing and research and Trying

49:01

to sleep and try not to pull your hair out , all those kinds of

49:03

things like Why do

49:05

you , why are you doing it ? What , where do

49:07

you want to go with it ?

49:10

so that's a really big question . And Um

49:12

, originally I got into graduate

49:15

school because I wanted to become a professor . Um

49:17

, i think I made it clear through my science , communication

49:19

stuff that I'm really passionate about educating

49:21

people . Um , i had a lot of professors

49:24

who were extremely influential on me and

49:26

that I would not have made it through an undergrad

49:28

without them , and so I really

49:30

wanted to become that person for other people

49:32

. Yeah , the more that I see

49:35

of the inside of academia

49:37

, the less I'm

49:39

on board with that plan .

49:41

Sure .

49:41

So right now I'm sort of floating in the wind . I'm

49:44

floating the idea of going more of the science

49:46

communication route and maybe More

49:50

like a consulting or

49:52

like I don't know , like

49:54

TV or podcast or media

49:56

of some sort , also because those

49:58

things are aimed more towards the general public

50:01

, like the people who are at college

50:03

Already have this drive to

50:05

learn the things . Um . But

50:07

also there's still a big part of me that

50:10

would love if being a professor

50:12

Purely consisted of being a professor

50:14

. That is my dream job , but

50:18

it consists of a lot more than that it

50:20

does , it does and it it is

50:22

.

50:24

I Understand that emotion a lot because

50:26

, like as someone who is kind of

50:28

professor guy , although not I

50:31

don't do much research , i'm not , i'm not , i'm

50:33

teaching faculty , i'm not a research faculty

50:35

and that's kind of what I would rather , because the

50:37

research side of things When

50:39

you're like in graduate school , it's really exciting

50:42

.

50:42

There's a lot going on , there's a lot of research that

50:44

you do , but whenever you get to the

50:46

professor level , all they do is write

50:48

grants .

50:49

That's what it feels like .

50:50

Yeah , and I do not want to do that .

50:53

You're preaching to the choir here I am

50:55

. That is not my thing , you

50:57

know . It's one of those things like , i'm sure

51:00

and if my Department chair listens to this

51:02

, i'm sure he would be happy if I wrote more grants But

51:05

like I feel like my skills lie

51:07

in teaching and so that's where , that's where I am

51:09

, and but I understand that feeling

51:11

too of like There is

51:13

so much Baggage

51:16

that comes with the good things we get to do in academia

51:19

that sometimes it's Daunting

51:21

and a little bit like , oh , you know

51:23

, i , you know , my encouragement

51:26

to you would just be that , like , you can have

51:28

that , you can have what you

51:30

want in academia . But that doesn't mean that

51:32

and I think this message is just for other

51:34

people listening to But that doesn't mean that you have

51:36

to like there is so

51:38

much of a world outside of these , like walls

51:41

, so to speak .

51:42

That's fair , that's sure .

51:43

Yeah , but no , i think that's cool And I love

51:45

that . You know science , communication and

51:47

media and outreach and those things are

51:49

kind of on your brain And you know

51:51

also and I know that's like a big question I sort

51:53

of ambushed you with and I apologize , but

51:55

but but it's also good to hear , i

51:57

think , for people that are in it or

51:59

considering it . Or You

52:02

know , we I think I'll get to points

52:04

in our academic career , especially these grad

52:06

students We're just like what am I even doing

52:08

? You know ?

52:09

and I I do think the big thing is to at

52:11

the very least know what you're passionate about

52:14

. Yeah because there have been so

52:16

many times where I have I

52:18

mean every graduate student that they thought about quitting

52:20

. Oh yeah and every time I come across one of

52:22

those , i'm just thinking What

52:25

do I want to do ? and not just

52:27

like career-wise , but like emotionally , what

52:29

would be fulfilling to me ? and Becoming

52:31

some form of an educator is what

52:33

would be fulfilling to me , and to do that

52:35

I have to get through this .

52:37

Yeah , yeah , i hear that .

52:39

But if I didn't have that some form of a

52:42

passion or a light at the end of the tunnel I

52:44

I don't think anyone would be able to make it through

52:46

grad school without that because it's a lot .

52:48

It is a lot , okay

52:51

, i'm gonna . I'm just trying to come up with like a random question

52:53

to ask you that's plant related , okay .

52:55

Do you have ? houseplants so I

52:57

Have what I have

53:00

decided to call a selective green thumb . So

53:05

, growing up , my mom killed every single

53:07

plant that we had in the house , and I

53:09

would always be so upset about it because I was like

53:11

why can't our house be pretty ? and like , have cute little

53:14

plants everywhere ? And then whenever I went to college

53:16

, i filled my dorm with plants . Yeah

53:18

, I was such a good plant parent like I

53:21

had , like all of like the rare ones

53:23

and the ones that are hard to keep alive and I Have

53:25

a watering schedule and I

53:27

was so good at it . And then I got cats

53:29

.

53:30

Oh no .

53:31

Yeah , and one of my cats in particular

53:33

decided there was his mission to eat every

53:35

single plant that I have my goodness and at

53:37

one point we went to California

53:40

, to the redwoods and . I got a bunch

53:43

of redwood seeds and I was so excited

53:45

. I was like I'm going to have a redwood

53:47

plant . I'm gonna make like I'm

53:49

gonna grow a tree . I was so excited

53:52

. I grew four of them . I managed to

53:54

get them to germinate and sprout , the sprout

53:56

, the sprouts And

54:00

um , and I put like a bag

54:02

over them to like protect them from the cats . And

54:04

then I came home from work one day and one of my

54:06

cats had knocked them over and used

54:08

as a litter box .

54:09

Oh my goodness , cats are like the great

54:11

destroyers .

54:12

They are plants .

54:13

That's amazing And not a good way .

54:16

So ever since then I haven't had a house

54:18

plant . But what I've started doing

54:20

is I keep a plant in the lab because , no

54:23

one can mess with it there . And

54:25

what now ? as a plant person

54:27

, you might think this is torture , because I

54:29

don't know how how okay this is for

54:31

a plant . But I looked up what

54:33

plants survive the best in fluorescent

54:35

lighting because our lab doesn't

54:38

have windows and uh

54:40

, i found out that air plants , that

54:42

I think they have a technical name , but , um , they

54:44

grow really well with just fluorescent

54:46

lighting . So I have one that I keep on

54:49

my desk that it all

54:51

that it gets is our poor lab lights , but it does

54:53

pretty well .

54:53

You know they're . I mean , if you look at like the shelf

54:56

behind me , i have my one little grow

54:58

bowl , but mostly they get fluorescent light

55:00

too and they , you know , i think it's funny

55:02

There are And

55:04

this is maybe an interesting , just biology

55:07

thing in general like we have Best

55:09

management practices for plants . It's like you

55:11

should do this and you should do this , but kind of like we

55:13

were talking about earlier , it's like the plants

55:15

don't really care about our best management practices

55:18

, like yeah , we'll have some that just do

55:20

the thing . You're like there's no reason you should

55:23

be living in here and the plant's like I just . I really

55:25

don't care exactly .

55:26

They just don't have vibes and you just have

55:28

to go with it .

55:29

Yeah , you just go with it . Now , i like the

55:31

, i like having a lab plant and I'm , you know , i

55:33

know that I am fortunate as a plant person to work

55:35

in a greenhouse . But , like I'm

55:37

thinking , like , if I move offices , how am I

55:39

gonna like ? what am I gonna take with me ? What's gonna , what

55:41

can survive ?

55:43

Well , you should do one of the old labs that I

55:45

Worked in . Someone had decided to

55:47

grow a tree in that lab . So it was

55:49

like potted and originally it

55:51

was maybe like up to like an adult's waist

55:53

, so it was very easy to like carry into

55:55

the lab . Whenever they moved labs They were with them

55:57

. But it was a tree and so

55:59

like . Eventually it grew so that it's so big

56:02

that you couldn't fit it outside of the door , and

56:04

so they just left it .

56:09

I like that , that there's . There's just a tree in

56:11

this room .

56:11

So you can just make your mark on the university . Just grow

56:14

a tree that are too big big

56:16

to get out of clout .

56:17

That's actually really funny because

56:19

like There's I don't know if you've ever heard

56:21

the term gorilla gardening where people

56:24

will go and like plant wildflowers and empty lots

56:26

and things like that . I really like

56:28

the concept of

56:30

like planting trees inside offices

56:33

and college classrooms that people come back

56:35

from like summer and they're like How

56:37

, why is this here ? and they can't get it out . I

56:40

think , that is really funny .

56:42

Put some idea , that would really bother .

56:44

Yeah , just like the walls are covered with it when they come back

56:46

from From summer break or whatever That's

56:48

. That's pretty funny .

56:50

I have never heard about gorilla gardening , but

56:52

now that you say it , me and my brother used to do that

56:54

to my dad all the time . My

56:56

dad is very much one of the people who is like , oh , i'm

56:59

gonna have the perfect lawn , it's gonna be like that exact

57:01

. Like put , put a ruler out there and like see how

57:03

tall my grass is , and me and my brother we

57:05

would take like every dandelion , every like

57:07

wild seed and we would spread them everywhere . One

57:10

year my brother , through 4h

57:12

, got a giant coffee can full

57:14

of sunflower seeds Yeah

57:17

, like , like the actual ones that grow flowers

57:19

and he planted them everywhere and my

57:21

dad was like why can't I mow through ?

57:26

It's like biological warfare . Oh

57:29

, that's so funny . Um , so , just

57:31

as we kind of wrap up the question

57:33

, i like to ask all my guests at the end and you've , you've

57:35

given some great like pieces

57:38

of life advice . It's just just things that

57:40

you've learned and I , and I really appreciate

57:42

it . Um , but I like to ask , like , if there

57:44

was one thing about school

57:47

or Your subject matter

57:49

or just whatever life in general that

57:51

that you would like our listeners to

57:53

kind of take with them , what would that be ? What like

57:55

one thing would you want to leave ?

57:59

That is a tough question .

58:00

It is right .

58:01

I think Two things . Number

58:04

one find what you're passionate about

58:06

and find the best route to

58:08

get there and . Keep that

58:10

in mind , like I have a book , like

58:12

a notebook , that anytime i'm starting

58:15

to doubt what i'm doing or i'm not

58:17

feeling great or maybe like it's been a really rough

58:19

week , i'll go in it . I'll write down

58:21

What am I passionate about , why

58:23

am I doing this , and I guess you could

58:25

call that journaling . Sure Yeah it's specifically

58:28

dedicated to that , and then , if i'm feeling really

58:30

bad or feeling really down , i can go back and look at

58:32

it and be like , okay , this is what i'm passionate about

58:34

, this is why i'm doing this , this is why i'm going through this

58:36

, and that's been incredibly helpful . My

58:39

second thing is Get

58:41

plants that are safe for cats . There

58:46

are a lot of plants out there that are not safe

58:48

for cats , um , and cats will still

58:50

eat them , so make sure your plants are safe for

58:52

cats .

58:53

I love that . That's that's great And it's

58:55

really actually very good advice , because

58:57

the plants don't or the the cats don't care .

59:00

They don't . They'll eat anything . They'll eat anything .

59:02

Yeah , i like it . That's really good advice

59:05

. Um morgan , where can people

59:07

find you ?

59:08

So I am on tiktok , instagram

59:10

and youtube as ask a neuroscientist

59:13

, and then i'm on twitter as ask

59:15

a neuro , and that's where you can find a my

59:17

science communication stuff . Uh , right now I'm

59:19

trying to on youtube , do like a neuroscience 101

59:22

series . That's very much meant for People

59:24

who know absolutely nothing about the brain

59:27

or anything about science . So , um

59:29

, i really recommend that if you're curious

59:31

about how your brain works .

59:32

Yeah , that's awesome , lots of fun . Um

59:34

, so look for links for all those

59:36

things in , uh , the show

59:38

notes of this episode . but , morgan , thanks

59:41

for driving six hours to come be on this podcast

59:43

. I appreciate it .

59:44

I'll do it again in like a month . Yeah , there you go .

59:45

Perfect . Y'all follow morgan sage

59:48

advice and make sure your plants

59:50

are cat safe . Thanks so much for

59:52

listening . Thanks for being a part of this . Uh

59:54

, you know I do this for you and you know that I

59:56

Enjoy recording this

59:58

show because you enjoy listening to it . Thanks

1:00:00

again to morgan for coming on and giving us her experience

1:00:03

And her knowledge and her wisdom . She's so much fun

1:00:05

And I hope you really enjoyed that . Uh

1:00:08

, keep an eye out for the method section

1:00:10

when it comes out . Go follow morgan

1:00:12

all the places at ask a

1:00:14

neuroscientist And uh , just

1:00:16

stay tuned for more updates . Uh

1:00:18

, thanks again to the podfix network and to the

1:00:20

tech tech department of plant and soil science . Plant

1:00:23

apology is recorded , written , edited

1:00:25

and produced by yours truly

1:00:27

and uh , y'all

1:00:29

you know I love you so much . Thanks for being

1:00:32

a part of this . Thanks for Uh listening

1:00:34

, thanks for being my friends . Uh , definitely

1:00:36

connect . Uh send me messages . I love

1:00:38

it when you people say hi . Uh

1:00:41

, keep being kind to one another . If you have not

1:00:43

yet been kind to one another , maybe give that a shot . It's

1:00:45

pretty great . And keep being really cool

1:00:48

plant people .