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1:19

to Pod Save America. I'm John Favreau. I'm

1:21

John Lovett. I'm David Tor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

1:24

What a debate fellas. Wow.

1:27

My first question is for you. You

1:31

came back from Fiji way too soon. If

1:34

you would only state a couple more weeks. Put

1:37

me back in. Put me back

1:40

in. Take away my phone. Leave me out of this. So

1:43

we all just like many

1:45

of you endured the 90

1:47

minute debate between Joe Biden and

1:49

Donald Trump. I think you're

1:52

hearing this in the morning. So you

1:54

probably remember it. Maybe you're

1:56

fortunate and you don't. But just

1:58

in case we're going to refresh your memory. Here's

2:00

a clip of what happened. President

2:30

Trump, the question was about what

2:32

would you do to make South

2:34

Carolina more affordable. He

2:44

can't hit a ball 50 yards. He challenged me to a

2:46

golf match. He can't hit a ball 50 yards. I'd

2:48

be happy to have a driving contest with him. The

2:51

reason I got my handicap was when I

2:53

was Vice President, down to a 6. I

2:56

told you before, I'm happy to play golf if you carry

2:58

your own bag. Think you

3:00

can do it? That's the biggest

3:02

lie, that he's a 6 handicap of all.

3:04

How is it? 8 handicap? I

3:07

really don't know what he said at the end of this. I

3:09

don't think he knows what he said either. Okay,

3:11

that was the debate. Look,

3:16

we always want to be honest with you guys. I

3:18

don't think we need to, you

3:20

don't listen to us for us to sugarcoat anything.

3:22

I think it was a fucking disaster. I think

3:25

it was like maybe the worst debate I've ever seen

3:27

in my entire life. Donald Trump is

3:29

a threat to democracy. Donald Trump is a

3:32

despicable human being. He should not be president.

3:34

We have to do literally everything

3:36

we possibly can to make sure he is

3:39

not president again. And that

3:41

is why last night was so

3:43

fucking awful because Joe Biden just

3:45

in every single way failed at

3:48

that debate. And I

3:50

don't know what else to say there

3:52

except that I won't make any other

3:54

predictions now, but it was a disaster.

3:56

Yeah, I mean, look, debates are a

3:58

performance and what you... you say

4:00

and how you say it both matter. And

4:02

so the optics to start there

4:04

were very bad tonight. Biden had to

4:07

answer concerns about his age. I think he exacerbated

4:09

them. His voice sounded frail. There

4:12

was an answer where he kind of stalled out

4:14

halfway through the cut shots when Trump was speaking

4:16

were not kind to Biden. And in the first

4:18

debate in 2020, he did a very good job

4:20

of kind of smiling or like taking notes. I

4:23

counted, I think he smiled twice or three times in

4:25

90 minutes. I mean, this time he looked confused at

4:27

times. He was looking away. His clips are already flying

4:30

around TikTok. Like that's the online spin war

4:32

that's happening as we speak. No deceptive editing

4:34

necessary. Yeah. Not much of a war.

4:36

I mean, in the substance, I just, I don't think Biden landed

4:38

the hits he needed to land. We just heard him. He

4:40

needed to prosecute the case against Trump on abortion.

4:43

There we heard a clip where he sort of took

4:45

an abortion answer and wound up at a point about

4:47

immigration. I don't think he made a

4:49

strong economic argument. The attacks on Trump's felony convictions

4:52

weren't strong. That's not to say that Trump was

4:54

great. I don't think he was. He ducked questions.

4:56

The mean angry Trump came out of times, but

4:58

like I came into this debate anxious

5:01

about Biden's performance and focused on Biden's performance.

5:03

And I felt like the first 15 to

5:05

20 minutes were the

5:07

worst part of the debate for

5:09

Biden. And that's probably all that some people watched.

5:11

And so like, I think

5:13

we're all angry and frustrated to be in

5:15

this position. Joe Biden has done a great

5:17

job as president and he has better policies.

5:19

He has a better team, but his job

5:22

is to communicate those ideas and then make

5:24

a contrast with Trump and what he would

5:26

do. And he failed at that. And

5:28

his other job was to put to rest concerns about his age. And

5:30

I think they were made worse.

5:33

So this debate was a really important moment

5:35

in this campaign and it didn't go well.

5:37

And I'm also worried that there might not

5:39

be another debate because if you're Trump, you

5:41

might be thinking, why not just leave

5:43

it at that? I mean, Biden was not

5:45

forced to do this debate. He wanted this

5:47

debate on this timeline. This is something his

5:49

campaign served out of the lane,

5:51

broke with all precedent in modern political history

5:54

to seek out a debate outside

5:56

of the debate commission process in

5:58

June because, and I think. And

6:00

I agreed with that strategy at the time because

6:02

it was an acknowledgement that this race was profiling in

6:04

a way that would likely lead to Joe Biden

6:06

losing. He was behind in the polls. It

6:09

was functioning really as a referendum on Joe Biden. Voters

6:11

were not focused enough on Donald Trump. They were concerned

6:13

about his age and they believe the best way to

6:15

address that was to get on a

6:17

stage in front of a nationally televised

6:20

audience and assuage those concerns. And

6:22

he did not do that. He,

6:24

as Tommy said, he exacerbated that. In fact, he did the

6:26

opposite. He did the exact opposite of that. And like

6:29

you said, this is painful to say this

6:31

because we adore Joe Biden

6:33

as a person. He's a fundamentally decent, wonderful human

6:35

being. And he has accomplished a fuck of a

6:37

lot as president that he should be proud of

6:40

and we should be proud of. And he has

6:42

done a good job. And I believe that tonight's

6:44

performance is not a reflection of the kind of president that he

6:46

is, but it is a very

6:50

concerning piece of evidence about the kind of candidate he

6:52

will be in this race. Because you

6:54

need to ultimately be able to defend your

6:56

record and make the case against Donald Trump.

6:58

And there is never in the history of

7:00

politics been an easier candidate to make a

7:03

case against than Donald Trump. Donald Trump gave

7:05

him ample opportunities to do so. If

7:07

Joe Biden had given a B minus

7:09

performance tonight, we'd be talking about Donald Trump.

7:12

He lied. He made very

7:14

little sense. He didn't answer any

7:16

question. He became much more incoherent as the

7:19

debate went on. Donald Trump did for sure. And

7:22

there's the end. This was maybe

7:24

one of the debate, maybe one, but this was Joe Biden's best

7:27

and biggest opportunity to address the single

7:29

biggest concern about his candidacy. And he

7:32

did not deliver on that tonight. And that is deeply disappointing. Yeah.

7:35

Here's at first, it was shocking

7:37

and it was scary and it was sad. And by

7:39

the end, it was absurd. I'm

7:42

also, by the way, I'm not really buying this spin that the

7:44

first 20 minutes were terrible. And then he

7:46

got somehow much better. That was not

7:48

my experience in watching this debate. Like

7:50

I think part of what makes this

7:52

so sad is A, we

7:54

understand the stakes B, we view Donald Trump

7:57

as an eminently beatable figure and C, We

7:59

believe Joe Biden to be an excellent president.

8:01

I believe that I believe Joe Biden ran

8:04

because he loves this country And he believed

8:06

his case against Trump was the best

8:08

he was right about that I believe he

8:10

was an extraordinary president and played the hands

8:12

better than anybody else could have played

8:14

it But the most important job Joe Biden

8:17

has as president of the United States is

8:19

to beat Donald Trump and unfortunately He

8:22

went into this this debate in a

8:24

he was behind his job was to

8:26

overcome that dynamic and changed it He

8:29

emphasized it and for the same sense

8:31

of decency and empathy and patriotism that

8:34

led Joe Biden to run I believe

8:36

this is a moment to at least have a big

8:38

open conversation about whether the best

8:40

thing he can do for America to end

8:42

his presidency as the success it deserves to

8:44

be is whether or not he Should step

8:46

aside and already I know like because the

8:48

stakes are so high you see people afraid

8:51

to have that conversation and fine But

8:53

what I don't appreciate is people immediately saying well,

8:55

we know Joe Biden won't step aside We know

8:57

Joe Biden won't do this. We know Joe Biden

8:59

won't do that. I don't know what Joe Biden's

9:01

gonna do Nobody knows what Joe Biden's gonna do

9:03

Joe Biden was still on stage while some people

9:05

were saying that they know Joe Biden is not

9:07

Gonna step aside. I believe Joe Biden loves this

9:09

country and wants what's best for it. And so

9:11

there's a lot of Messy

9:14

complicated confusing unknowns ahead of us But

9:16

the first I think the first step

9:18

is let's have the debate about which

9:20

path is riskiest is the riskiest path

9:23

Sticking with Joe Biden or is the

9:25

riskiest path saying we want someone else

9:27

and Anybody who says that that is

9:29

not a tough call right now is full of fucking

9:31

shit. We're gonna get to that we're

9:34

obviously not the only ones who are thinking this

9:37

and that's not just because there's like

9:39

Democrats privately freaking out though that's happening

9:43

Most everyone I know in my life is also

9:45

freaking out So that's also happening but just to

9:47

give me an example as soon as the debate

9:49

was over This is what we

9:51

heard from CNN's John King. Let's listen Anderson

9:55

This was a game-changing debate in the sense

9:57

that right now as we speak there is

9:59

a deep and

10:01

a very aggressive panic in the Democratic Party.

10:03

It started minutes into the debate, and it

10:05

continues right now. It involves party strategists. It

10:08

involves elected officials. It involves

10:10

fundraisers. And they're having conversations

10:13

about the president's performance, which

10:15

they think was dismal, which they think will hurt other

10:17

people down the party in the ticket, and they're having

10:19

conversations about what they should do about it. Some of

10:21

those conversations include, should

10:23

we go to the White House and ask the

10:25

president to step aside? Other of the conversations are

10:27

about, should prominent Democrats

10:30

go public with that call? So that was John King. So

10:33

then we heard from all sorts

10:35

of Democrats. Kate Bedingfield,

10:37

former White House Communications Director, said that it was a bad performance.

10:40

We heard from multiple other

10:42

Democrats who said that, there's

10:45

members of Congress. I mean, we're recording this at midnight.

10:47

So by the time you hear this, there's probably other

10:49

Democrats that will have said this too. But

10:51

members of Congress are giving

10:54

blind quotes so far. So the

10:56

panic is real. It's happening. I almost

10:58

feel like it is underselling it

11:00

or minimizing it to call it panicking

11:02

or like bedwetting. Look,

11:05

if this was September or October, we

11:08

would be honest that this was a horrible debate.

11:11

But say like, look, it's too

11:14

late. The election is in a couple of weeks. Obviously,

11:17

we should vote for Joe Biden, and we should do

11:19

everything we can to make sure that Donald Trump doesn't

11:21

win and make Joe Biden another president.

11:23

But what Joe Biden did was agree

11:26

to this debate, propose

11:29

this debate and agree to this debate with

11:31

seven weeks left to the convention. And

11:33

as you said, love it, like we now, it

11:36

would be silly not to have

11:38

this conversation. And that's not to

11:40

say that a contested convention would be

11:42

easy or necessarily nominate someone

11:44

who can beat Donald Trump. That is the

11:46

reality of the situation we're in right now.

11:49

But I think like, and look,

11:51

it's up to Joe Biden, right? Joe Biden's going

11:53

to make this decision. The people around

11:55

him are going to counsel him on this decision. But

11:57

like, I think that... everyone

12:00

else who saw what we all saw

12:02

last night needs to be honest that

12:05

like he it's not just

12:07

that look we've talked about debates before

12:09

debates are performances debates are silly they

12:11

get scored Barack Obama had a terrible

12:13

first debate against Mitt Romney right and

12:16

then he went out there and he

12:18

fixed it right the terrible debate

12:20

that Barack Obama had against Mitt Romney was

12:22

nothing like this this is an just is

12:24

another level right I've never like I said

12:26

I've never seen any political can you can

12:28

you guys think of a political debate that

12:31

was as bad as no the

12:33

previous worst debate that any of us have

12:35

ever seen was the first presidential debate last time

12:37

and the difference between that debate and this

12:39

debate and I think part of the reason this

12:41

debate feels worse is that was a despicable

12:43

display but we didn't come away

12:45

thinking that the race had suddenly tilted against

12:47

Joe Biden this was a horrible

12:50

debate what did you buy one that debate

12:52

right but well everybody walked away saying that

12:54

was the worst debate ever see now watching

12:56

and saw it I hate politics right that's

12:58

the reaction I think people had the exact

13:00

same reaction to this nobody came away from

13:02

this loving politics or loving Donald Trump clear

13:04

like I don't think Donald Trump like

13:06

picked up and no one was like oh you know

13:08

what Donald Trump has a swage my concerns about him

13:10

not being a fucking lunatic I got a thing that

13:13

happened but I think people were fucking what we I

13:15

don't I mean it's not just that

13:17

Joe Biden needed to like make the

13:19

case against Donald Trump in a debate Donald

13:22

Trump is a threat to democracy right now

13:24

and we need leaders and we need a

13:26

president to actually make the case for why

13:29

Donald Trump is unfit for office as we

13:31

all know he did not bring up like

13:33

he didn't make a case against January 6th

13:35

he didn't talk about the fact that he

13:38

tried to overturn the last election he didn't

13:40

talk about the fact that he is facing

13:42

an 88 felony counts he said the words

13:44

convicted felon once then he started talking

13:47

about the porn star was it alley cats alley

13:50

cats right he didn't bring up like almost

13:52

any of Donald Trump's vulnerabilities in a coherent

13:54

way let's talk about Trump's performance of it

13:57

I mean Trump lied constantly he

13:59

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a fucking guy. And

19:07

again, so we, you know, we, we watched the debate end and

19:09

then, um, Joe Biden appeared

19:11

at a watch party and

19:13

he was much more energetic at the

19:16

watch party. He was much more coherent

19:19

though, even there, cause everyone was like, well, where was

19:21

that Joe Biden? Yeah. So

19:23

he was pretty, pretty Spice and

19:25

coherency wise, coherence wise for sure.

19:28

But his message was like, he started talking about the

19:30

dog face lying pony soldier. He's

19:32

not good. Everyone's grating on such a curve.

19:34

It was just a weird one minute speech. It was

19:36

a weird. Yeah, exactly. And so

19:38

I don't, like, I just feel like we're now all, yeah, we're now

19:40

all like grading on a curve. Everything's relative, but

19:42

it's like, Hello. We all, we all saw this, right? Well,

19:45

that's the one that you can't not going to be convinced that I do. Don't

19:47

tell me my eyes are. Like, I saw what I saw. Like, I, I handled

19:49

things can be true at the same time. Right?

19:52

I think it's a very bad time that if you were, it's also

19:54

true that if you were to show swing voters who did not watch

19:56

the main only footage of Donald Trump speaking, they

19:59

would be very unhappy with that. For sure. And I

20:01

would be shocked if they weren't. Yeah. I mean, he

20:03

did not, he did nothing to improve his standing in

20:06

the race. All he did was just be better than

20:08

Joe Biden. Right. And so,

20:10

and I would say Trump did what

20:12

Trump did do for all of his

20:14

bad on proper policy positions, refusal to

20:17

answer questions, answer questions. His repeated lies

20:19

is he was more restrained

20:21

than he was in 2020. And

20:23

so you could watch that and not

20:26

come away with the idea that he is

20:28

like, that's what Biden wanted. What strategically he

20:30

should have done is try to, when Trump

20:32

got mad was when Biden went after him

20:34

on January 6 early. And if he had

20:36

done that earlier and sort of gotten Trump

20:38

off his game, but Biden couldn't do that.

20:40

The bigger thing here is Biden is behind

20:42

in this race, right? We can debate by

20:44

how much, but Trump has an advantage in

20:46

the swing States and, and,

20:48

and maybe all six of them right now. And

20:51

so how do you change the dynamic in a race? You

20:53

either change the dynamic in a race by taking

20:55

advantage of huge high leverage moments with

20:57

lots of eyeballs on you in delivering

21:00

in a big way. But

21:02

I did not do that. And there may

21:04

not be another moment like that because the

21:06

convention speech is not a moment like that.

21:08

No, because Trump gets a convention speech. Biden

21:10

gets a convention speech. Their plans are mostly

21:12

watched by partisans. And the other way you

21:14

do it is by waking up every single

21:16

day, dominating the media conversation and making a

21:18

compelling relentless argument for yourself and

21:20

against the other person. Joe Biden has

21:22

not done that in this presidency at

21:24

any point. And look, if,

21:26

if, if suddenly he wakes up tomorrow and can

21:29

do that for the next several months, right?

21:31

Then great. Right. So

21:33

happy. You were doing multiple, you're doing

21:36

multiple rallies a day. You were doing

21:38

every single possible media hit you can

21:40

do. You're going into unfriendly territory to

21:42

do things that go viral. Right. You know, it's like Trump

21:45

was on, I don't know which Paul Logan,

21:48

Paul, Jake Paul's podcast, and then either Jake

21:50

or whatever, like challenged Biden to do it.

21:53

Like, yeah, go like in a different candidate could

21:55

go do that and just like take them on

21:58

and get in his face and have

22:00

a viral. moment and show your strength. Whether Biden's

22:02

staff are treating him with kid gloves or

22:05

maybe because of tonight they think he

22:07

can't do those things, he is not doing that. So

22:09

the question is, how is he going

22:11

to change the dynamic in the race going forward?

22:13

If tonight happened and we may not get another

22:15

debate. There was one question and answer that I

22:17

thought was kind of damaging for Trump and I

22:19

wondered if you guys agreed. He was asked, what

22:21

do you say to voters who think you violated

22:24

your oath on January 6th? And Trump

22:26

said, on January 6th, we had a great

22:28

border. On January 6th, we were energy independent.

22:30

On January 6th, we had the lowest taxes,

22:32

the lowest regulations we were respected around the

22:34

world. Then he went into a pivot. I wonder, I

22:37

don't know, like rhetorically it was clever, but I wonder

22:39

if you were like, what are you talking about? That

22:41

was my reaction. I thought it was bizarre. And I'm

22:43

like, because it seemed like something that they had planned.

22:45

And I was like, that is not, that is, that

22:48

cannot be effective. Clever was the wrong, like it was

22:50

like, it was a rhetorical only answer that never touched

22:52

the substance. It's like giving, uh, like,

22:55

uh, like, uh, what do you call those things? Uh,

22:57

fidget, fidget spinner to a kid, where

22:59

it's just, it's like, here's something he will say

23:02

that will not likely not damage him more than

23:04

what he would say on his own. But then

23:06

this is the problem, right? Because there's Joe Biden

23:08

standing there and he's not lies or,

23:11

or, or fast or, or, uh, direct enough to

23:13

be able to counterpunch in any of these moments.

23:15

He tried there. He said, we, he tried to

23:18

get him to say, well, you denounced the proud

23:20

boys. You told them to stand by. Will you

23:22

denounce the insurrections? But he just couldn't get it

23:24

out. He couldn't get out. And by the way,

23:26

I just, I also want to say, I'm really

23:28

not up for a debate about, uh, CNN and

23:31

their role in this. If you

23:33

watched that debate and you came away thinking the problem

23:35

with CNN, uh, go for a walk outside. I, that

23:37

is ridiculous. So speaking of CNN, um, so

23:39

the first debate in 2020, the CNN post debate

23:42

poll, uh, Joe Biden, 60%

23:45

of voters thought Joe Biden won 28% thought

23:47

Donald Trump won tonight. The poll just

23:49

came out 67%

23:51

of voters think Donald Trump won only

23:53

33% think that Joe Biden won. It's

23:56

a big swing. It's a 60, it's a

23:58

66 point swing towards Trump. There

24:00

was also a Frank Luntz's

24:02

focus group of all undecided voters who, again,

24:04

Luntz was tweeting this through the debate at

24:06

times were saying, oh, they're mad at both

24:08

of them. They don't like that Trump's being

24:10

so personal. A tiny bit of purchase on

24:12

which to have hope. And then at the

24:14

end, they're all undecided voters and all of

24:17

them think that Joe Biden should step

24:19

aside. There was

24:21

a focus group on MSNBC just before we

24:23

started. One of the voters said, I love

24:25

Joe Biden's policies. I think Donald Trump's despicable,

24:27

but Joe Biden can't execute. Like we

24:29

should have an open convention. That moment

24:31

with that, there

24:34

was a despondency with that person because what

24:36

you got was how much they disliked Donald

24:38

Trump and understand already that Donald Trump doesn't

24:40

fight for them, doesn't care about them, isn't

24:42

out for them. But they see Joe Biden,

24:45

even though they want to be for Joe

24:47

Biden, what they saw made them really, really

24:49

concerned. And this is what voters have been

24:51

saying. This is what lots of people have

24:53

been saying for years now. It has gotten

24:56

worse and worse. And what Joe Biden said

24:58

when there was a big news cycle, when

25:01

everybody said it was too late and

25:03

there was a big news cycle about this,

25:05

Joe Biden, remember he did

25:07

a press conference. It was very combative and then

25:09

someone shouted the question at him and he said,

25:11

watch me. After the Robert Hearst special counsel report.

25:13

The Robert Hearst special counsel report, Joe

25:16

Biden turned to the door, turned back creakily

25:18

and said, watch me. And

25:21

by the way, I this entire

25:23

time have been just very uncertain

25:25

about what was the more dangerous

25:27

or risky path given the threat

25:29

Trump poses, right? Do

25:32

you trust that Joe Biden can overcome these concerns

25:34

about his age enough to make this case or

25:36

do you believe you should go down the messy

25:38

and unknown path of seeking out

25:40

a different nominee? And I think what we saw

25:42

tonight means we need to have that debate. There's

25:44

a lot to come. It's complicated. It's

25:46

uncertain. It's risky, but we have to have that

25:48

conversation. I

25:51

think it's totally acceptable to wonder aloud

25:53

and openly talk about the path of

25:55

the convention. It's totally legitimate for

25:57

folks to say, you know what? Actually, I think sticking

25:59

with Joe Biden. is the best chance we have at

26:01

winning, so we all should do that. What is not

26:03

acceptable is telling people to

26:05

stop bedwetting or that they didn't see

26:08

what they saw or that, oh,

26:10

you guys just need, this is Twitter,

26:12

Nutter, it's time to grow a spine.

26:14

Enough with that rhetorical bullshit. It's insulting

26:16

to people who are on your team

26:19

who want to fight for you, but

26:21

have eyeballs and care deeply

26:24

about this country and are anxious because

26:26

we all have a stake in this

26:28

election. It's not about one man on

26:31

the ticket or about the staff

26:33

around him. It's about the fucking

26:35

future of the country. And by

26:37

the way, the staff around him,

26:39

he has a great campaign team.

26:41

The staff is fantastic. They are

26:43

doing everything right. The person

26:45

who is to blame right now is Joe

26:47

Biden because he has told all of us, I

26:50

am the guy. Like he's thought it

26:52

through, I am the guy, bet on me, I'm

26:54

gonna do it. And then he did this. And

26:57

then Joe Biden and anyone around him, whether it's

26:59

the first lady, whoever else has like, keeps encouraging

27:01

him to do this, right? And like,

27:03

I feel terrible for the staff in the campaign

27:05

and a lot of the other people because like,

27:07

look, not just because a lot of them are

27:09

our friends, but because they are doing like really

27:11

good work, but he is the

27:13

candidate, right? And he has to like lead

27:15

the campaign for him. He has to debate.

27:17

And they are doing these jobs because they

27:19

know, they love Joe Biden, they absolutely love

27:21

Joe Biden. They also know that you have

27:23

to defeat Donald Trump. And this is,

27:26

as we sit here right now, that

27:29

is the way to do it. Is you elect, the choice

27:31

is right now as of today, there will be a conversation

27:33

in the coming days, is elect Joe Biden

27:36

or we get down on Trump. Those are the two choices, right? It's

27:38

not the choice a lot of people wanted. It's

27:40

not a perfect choice, but that is the option

27:42

before us, right? And so that's why they're doing

27:44

it. That's why we

27:46

have done what we have done to try to help Joe Biden, right?

27:49

And that's why people are so frustrated

27:51

and upset about this debate because he

27:54

did this. He wanted this debate

27:56

right now, right? And he had

27:59

a week of practice. And probably should

28:01

have had two, right? And so it's

28:04

just, it is like they, this was a big moment

28:06

and he did not deliver in a big moment, right?

28:08

And it's very frustrating. And look, like you said, Dan,

28:10

it's a choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Like

28:12

if we get through the convention and everyone does, and

28:14

Joe Biden says, I'm not stepping down and there's no

28:16

other Democrats step up and all the,

28:18

you know, I've seen a lot of the elected Democrats

28:20

tonight on TV, which understandable it's like right after the

28:23

debate say, like, no, we're sticking with Joe Biden. That's

28:25

great. If everyone decides, everyone

28:27

who could run for president decides

28:29

that they're not, they're not gonna run. They don't

28:31

want to run. Joe Biden's the guy. Joe Biden

28:33

decides then like, after that

28:35

convention, of course we will do everything

28:37

in our power to elect Joe Biden,

28:39

a hundred percent. But like, the

28:43

best thing Joe Biden did is

28:45

to propose this debate before the convention and give

28:47

us a chance now to like rethink this. It

28:49

is because the threat Donald Trump poses that we

28:51

have to have this debate right now about whether

28:54

or not it should be Joe Biden. Do not

28:56

tell us that because Donald Trump is a threat,

28:58

we cannot have this conversation. That is ridiculous. And

29:00

I think just to be crystal clear about one

29:03

thing, I did not come away

29:05

from this debate wondering whether Joe Biden can

29:07

do the job of president. He can, he

29:09

has been doing it. He's done a great

29:11

job of doing it. I came away deeply

29:13

concerned about his ability to wage the campaign

29:15

he needs to wage to defeat Donald Trump.

29:18

It's an important distinction. Yes, I agree with

29:20

that. You know what I mean? I am

29:22

not for one second in the camp of

29:24

people who are gurgitating the like horrible attacks

29:26

from the Trump people. This is about what

29:28

it takes to run a campaign which is

29:31

really, really hard. President is a much harder

29:33

job. It's a much more important

29:35

job, but candidate is a different job. And

29:37

it's primarily a communications job. It's an

29:39

ability to go out every day and

29:41

make a case. And it's always important,

29:43

but when you're running against an authoritarian

29:45

who could threaten democracy, then like it's

29:47

not just about being a good candidate.

29:49

That is part of the job of

29:51

being president in this moment right now

29:54

is making the case for why democracy

29:56

is the better system. And he has

29:58

not made that case. The

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Angie's List you know and trust is now

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30:34

That's A-N-G-I. Or download the

30:36

app today. Erin

30:40

and I are excited to share a clip

30:42

from one of our episodes of our YouTube

30:44

series called This Fucking Guy. So we hope

30:46

you aren't eating because this troll is one

30:48

that definitely makes your stomach turn. We've

30:50

discussed fucking guys who were second in

30:52

line to the presidency, fucking guys who

30:55

humiliated themselves for Donald Trump only to

30:57

be discarded like a spent condom. This

31:00

episode, we're going to get into the life

31:02

and times of a fucking guy who may

31:04

lack direct political power, but makes up for

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it in influence. We're talking

31:08

about the head of the AARP,

31:11

Brat Pack, the heiress stepmom boarding

31:13

school populist himself, Tucker Carlson. I'm

31:16

a bigot. Okay, I'm a bigot. I don't like

31:19

Islamic extremists. Like if you are really heavily into Islam, I

31:21

really, I'm sorry. I just don't, I don't care for you

31:23

that much. And I don't care what that sounds like. You

31:26

can call me a racist. You can come whatever the fuck

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you want. And we shall. We shall

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call him a racist. Want to hear more about

31:32

how this human ulcer is eating through America's stomach

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lining? Yes, yes you do. Go

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more where we break down the impact

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of this fucking guy and so many

31:43

others. Subscribe to Hysteria's YouTube channel so

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you never miss a new episode. Or

31:47

a fucking guy. Or a fucking guy. So

31:57

Axios already has some comments from these. They're

32:00

House Democrats and they are not. They've given their names

32:02

to Axios, obvious. Of course not, yeah. This is not

32:04

on the record. One said, I am in a state

32:06

of shock. The other said, Jamal

32:08

Bowman is the hero we need right now. We need him

32:11

to pull the fire alarm. A

32:13

couple of that. Too soon. Too soon. That's

32:15

him making the rounds. That one's been making the rounds. One

32:17

female House Democrat said, it's time for women to save both

32:19

these men from their misery. President Whitmer has a strong ring

32:21

to it. So that's just a sample

32:23

of some of what we're getting from. And

32:26

I'll just say, like, I imagine this is true for you guys.

32:28

I probably got like two dozen tweets tonight

32:30

from friends in and out of politics. Every

32:33

single one of them was as anxious as we

32:35

sound. This is not like

32:37

a political insider, like ajita group thing.

32:39

It's like all my friends from

32:41

all parts of my life just being like, what's happening?

32:43

People who don't tune into politics, people who don't pay

32:45

attention. There's not a single person who's like, it's

32:48

actually not that bad. I feel like I want to come back

32:50

to something you said, which is that you said like that the

32:52

word panic feels strange, both like too big

32:54

and too small. Because I think

32:56

the problem, right, is like, what's

32:59

a little patronizing to it's like, oh, those Democrats, they're

33:01

all there, which I get. Well, because we are often, we

33:03

are like that. Yes, for sure. And I think what

33:05

makes this different is that like, it's not a panic

33:07

in that I think people, people are

33:09

not overreacting. And this is a moment

33:12

where people are reflecting, not

33:14

just on the debate, but what led to this

33:16

moment, right? And the collective sense

33:18

in which we couldn't make a change in all the conversations

33:21

and debates we've been having for a long time. That's one

33:23

part of it. The second part of it is, I

33:26

am concerned that we spend 48 hours

33:29

having this paroxysm

33:31

of doubt and concern. And

33:34

then the July 4th happens, Joe

33:36

Biden does a rally where he is more like how

33:38

he was at the State of the Union. The

33:41

dynamic in the race doesn't change. He's still behind

33:43

in these swing state polls. We don't really see

33:45

a clear path to how that changes, but we're

33:48

reassured that, oh, the debate didn't have as long

33:50

of an impact as we thought it would. Then

33:52

all of a sudden we're marching toward a convention

33:54

where we never really reconciled the experience of watching

33:56

that debate. And that's why I think just making

33:59

sure. that what this is is not a panic, but

34:01

a concerted effort to give everybody who

34:03

wants to protect democracy and defeat Donald Trump, the

34:06

open conversation about the best person to do that

34:08

is so important. And some people will say, this

34:10

conversation only helps Trump. Yeah, it does. And no

34:12

one wants to be having it. But our hands

34:14

was forced by what we all watched. You know

34:16

what, we all want Trump the 90 minutes that

34:19

we just saw. Yeah, it does. Anyway,

34:21

let's go to- Anything fun? Anyway, let's

34:23

go to favorite moments. Yeah. I think one other

34:25

point I think is worth making is- Favorite

34:28

moments. We had some, by the way, devours- Hey, thorns and

34:30

moses. By the way, I want you guys to know something.

34:33

We were deep gallows humors by the end of this thing.

34:36

We were drinking and we were getting through

34:38

it. We went through from stunned silence to

34:41

gallows humor in about 20 minutes. I liked

34:43

when we were talking about how many historians

34:45

said Trump was the worst president. That

34:48

was a good part. Yeah, I

34:50

mean, it was just fun. By the

34:52

way, Kamala Harris was on

34:54

TV afterwards. Anderson Cooper interviewed her. I believe she went

34:56

on MSNBC though. I haven't seen that yet. She

35:00

did quite well in the interview and Anderson really pushed her.

35:03

At one point, she did say it was a slow

35:05

start, at least the vice president acknowledged that. That's

35:09

the vice president. The

35:11

idea that you're going to be like, no, everything

35:13

was fine. You even have the vice, you have

35:15

the president's former communications director, you have the vice

35:17

president. It's just- No one thinks it was fine.

35:19

You know what? I think that just

35:22

telling people to deny what they saw,

35:24

telling people to deny objective reality is

35:26

just not effective. Forget

35:29

about whether it's right or wrong. It's just not effective. I'm

35:31

going to be very interested to see what Biden does at the

35:33

rally he has in North Carolina tomorrow. Because

35:37

if this was Obama, and this was

35:39

sort of true after that Robin debate

35:41

is, he makes a self-deprecating

35:43

joke about it, and then tries

35:45

to deliver a much better performance. Will

35:48

Biden do that? There's

35:50

one upside to this debate. He

35:52

will not be attacked tomorrow for performance

35:55

enhancing drugs. So, he has

35:57

put that narrative- Right, that's two. Rest. There

36:00

were people pausing and trying to feed Joe Biden out

36:05

of all through the television. I did, yeah. This is why you

36:07

don't do time release. This is why you do that. Yeah, you

36:09

gotta hear up all night. Just,

36:13

it kicked in right, it kicked in at the party. Right, right.

36:15

That was the problem. And poor Joe Biden's gonna be up all

36:17

night. We did have a

36:20

spirited debate about golf games.

36:22

Yeah, we had caps. That was wild.

36:24

Really, but all of this stuff is even

36:26

more frustrating because it goes to show how

36:29

vulnerable Trump is. The

36:31

guy was an incoherent mess, he was talking about,

36:33

he was a little, I would say, we

36:36

were talking about the first 15, 20 minutes. I would

36:38

say Trump was the best in the first

36:40

15 minutes. And then Trump really declined throughout

36:42

the debate. Biden got him upset and then

36:44

Trump became more of the Trump we know.

36:46

One of the most obvious differences between watching

36:48

the first debate four years ago and the

36:50

first debate now is something has happened to

36:52

Joe Biden's voice that has made it softer,

36:55

more frail, and has led him to cough

36:57

a lot. Again, I know I'm talking optics,

36:59

and optics doesn't matter when you're doing the

37:01

job of president, but it matters a lot

37:03

as a candidate. And it just makes it

37:06

hard for him to get his point across

37:08

and to get these lines out and to

37:10

string together arguments over

37:12

the course of two minutes in a way that is

37:14

compelling or even at times like fully

37:17

understandable. I mean, we should note, I mean,

37:19

you're correct, under all scenarios that his voice

37:21

has changed. He also, it came out

37:23

that he had a cold. Has

37:25

he had it since January? Well, I mean, like

37:27

he sounded worse than usual. And

37:29

the first, like he sounded like he had to

37:32

cough and he could not cough in the first

37:34

15 minutes. Yeah. Now,

37:36

why his campaign did not put out the fact that he had a cold in

37:38

advance of that? Well, I'll just say, so you

37:40

know what, me

37:42

and Tommy in love it, we went to the

37:44

fundraiser in LA with president Obama and Jimmy Kimmel,

37:47

and Biden was very much like he

37:49

was tonight at that fundraiser. That was

37:51

also after he had flown from the

37:54

G7 in Italy. 15

37:56

hours to LA. Understandable. And that was his second

37:58

trip to Europe in the same week. So we

38:00

chalked it up as like, yeah, that was a

38:02

pretty bad performance. He is pretty tired. They should

38:04

let the guy sleep. Hopefully they'll have him sleep

38:06

and prep for this debate. And by the way,

38:08

everyone else in the crowd saw that too, which

38:10

is why the whole like, oh, deceptively edited clip

38:12

of Biden freezing. He wasn't actually freezing in that

38:14

moment, but the rest of the thing was bad.

38:16

I just also- And he was tired. And I

38:19

thought he would be rested tonight. I hoped he

38:21

would be rested tonight. He wasn't. Look,

38:23

and by the way, we

38:25

saw him at the State of the Union where he delivered.

38:27

We did. It's also like, okay, he

38:29

had a cold and his voice

38:32

is gravelly and not as strong as it

38:34

used to be. That doesn't explain why halfway

38:36

through an answer about abortion, he pivoted to

38:38

a different answer about immigration. That doesn't explain

38:40

why he wasn't able to push back on

38:42

Donald Trump throughout the debate. That's a classic

38:44

debate move. You pivoted from your

38:47

strongest issue. That's your strongest issue to your weakest issue.

38:49

To your weakest issue. Mid sentence. Did Donald Trump bring

38:51

up the attack? No, you got to bring up the

38:53

attack yourself. That's a, it's, you know, then he can't

38:55

do it. That you bring it up yourself. You see

38:57

what I'm saying? I mean, he clearly got rattled by

39:00

his performance. Like

39:03

he knew, he knew

39:05

that he messed up that first question. And I know,

39:08

cause we we've prepped cancer debates

39:10

before you tell them the first

39:12

10 minutes matter more than anything else. And

39:14

he knew he, he knew he messed

39:17

that up and he got in his head. And cause

39:19

he, he clearly had an answer on abortion. He

39:21

had an answer on this attack that he

39:23

knew Trump was going to make about this

39:25

woman who was killed. And he just. Just,

39:29

just combined them. He combined them. Yeah. You

39:31

also practice though, like in debate prep, I'm

39:34

sure you say to him over and over again, sir, your

39:37

face is going to be visible through the

39:39

duration of the debate. Every time Donald Trump

39:41

speaks, they're going to be looking at you

39:43

too. So you have to be mindful of

39:45

how you look, smiling, laughing off,

39:47

right? He did a great job of that in 2020.

39:50

That's what's so funny about this. A disaster this

39:52

time. Not how funny, but yeah. I

39:55

mean, look like, you know, they just after them on that.

39:58

You know, they are gazing. You

40:00

can either laugh or you can cry. Because we

40:02

watched the, we all rewatched the first 2020

40:04

debate earlier this week. And Trump did a

40:06

terrible job of that in the first debate.

40:09

Yes, sweaty, angry, warm. Sweaty, he's like angry.

40:11

He's muttering himself. And Biden, that whole, he

40:13

did, that's what he nailed in that debate.

40:15

Is he stared at that camera the whole

40:18

time? Every time Trump said something crazy, Biden

40:20

gave it that classic Biden smile. And

40:22

he did the exact opposite of

40:25

that in this debate. I think

40:27

now we're getting to the point in the pod where we're

40:29

all saying the same thing over and over again. And want

40:31

to kill ourselves. Right, exactly. Do

40:33

we have any final thoughts? Yeah,

40:36

I don't, I actually don't have, we

40:38

just watched the debate. And I think we're all feeling a

40:40

bit gobsmacked. And I think that's a feeling to trust for

40:42

a bit. But I will. I'm not going to

40:44

go back to my hotel room and watch it one more time before I go to

40:46

bed. Oh, you really? Jesus

40:49

Christ. No, I'm going to take the

40:51

same Xanax they gave Joe Biden before

40:53

the debate and knock myself the fuck

40:55

out. But I think a bunch

40:57

of friends. A bunch of friends. Yeah,

41:00

yeah, right. No,

41:02

but I feel like the

41:04

two texts I'm getting from a lot of

41:07

people, and I'm sure is a shared experience was some

41:09

combination of what do we do and are

41:11

we doomed? Was like, I feel like a

41:13

lot of people are saying that. And what do

41:15

we do? Take it one step at a time.

41:17

We all just watched that. We all saw it. Nobody knows what

41:19

Joe Biden's going to do. You saw Kamala

41:23

Harris is doing fucking improv with

41:25

Anderson Cooper. Gavin Newsom doesn't know what to

41:27

do. Everybody's figuring this out. So I think

41:29

everybody, I think just being honest about what

41:31

we saw is the first step and everybody

41:34

giving, being generous with each other in

41:36

knowing that everyone inside of this big democratic

41:39

coalition wants to defeat Donald Trump. We just

41:41

may not over the next couple of days

41:43

or weeks agree on the best way

41:45

to do it. That's for a second. Are we doomed? We're not

41:47

doomed. We're not doomed until

41:49

the election is over and a lot can

41:51

change between now and then. Nobody

41:54

knows what's going to happen. And let's

41:56

just take it one step at a time.

41:58

That's my one caution here. Yeah. Look, I'm

42:00

not gonna pretend tonight wasn't anything but terrible.

42:02

The next few days will probably be worse

42:04

because what tends to happen is the negative

42:07

feelings about a debate performance like this

42:10

turn into articles, which gets shared around, it

42:12

compounds, and the spin gets worse and worse,

42:15

and it becomes a bit of a spiral.

42:18

But the fact is

42:20

we have gotten, like a couple months is

42:22

a lifetime in politics. I'm not saying that

42:24

to like spin for Joe Biden, it's just

42:26

an objective fact. There was a fucking insurrection

42:29

against the Capitol that no one's talking about

42:31

anymore somehow. So, you know, the

42:35

lock can change between now and election day, and a lock

42:37

can change between now and the convention. And

42:39

it is what it is, but this weekend's

42:41

gonna suck. We gotta shut down the idea

42:43

to article pipeline. That is the

42:45

fucking problem. Per Dem's source,

42:48

live tracking of the debate showed that Trump's support

42:50

tanked when he said he wouldn't accept the results

42:52

of the election. Again, not surprising. There

42:54

was some good responses for Biden from some Midwest

42:56

swing voters. I'll take that for what you will.

42:58

And then Trump's January 6th and Roe responses were

43:00

also unpopular. Yes, of course. Also, Biden just took

43:02

a few questions from the pool. They asked him

43:04

how he did tonight. He said, I think we

43:06

did well. They on calls

43:09

for him to drop out whether he has any concerns

43:11

about his performance. No, it's hard to debate a

43:13

liar. The New York Times pointed out he

43:15

lied 26 times. On

43:17

whether he's sick, I have a sore throat. Pool

43:19

was then quickly ushered out. This Biden going to

43:21

that watch event, Biden taking these questions is the

43:23

first steps you do to address a bad debate

43:25

performance like this. The signal that they know. And

43:28

that we'll see a rally tomorrow. The next

43:30

48 hours are going to be fascinating

43:32

about how everyone else in the party responds

43:35

and what Biden does. But it is just worth reminding.

43:37

We're going to hear this from everyone. Why doesn't the

43:39

DNC go to Biden and tell him, this

43:41

is going to be Joe Biden's decision. No

43:44

one is going to make him do it. No

43:46

Democrat is going to announce that they're jumping in

43:48

the race because you can't really do that. And

43:51

this is going to be a decision for

43:53

the president to make. Yep. And

43:56

people can counsel him on it. People can counsel

43:58

him privately, publicly, whatever it may be. It's his

44:00

decision. So, all right. Wish we

44:02

had a more hope. Hey, one last

44:04

question. What gives you hope? I

44:07

wasn't, by the way, but listen, as the debate

44:09

was winding down and we're all kind of gut,

44:11

like our eyes are kind of bleeding from the

44:14

side. And they're kind of trying

44:16

to find different kinds of alcohol to put together. I

44:19

looked around, we're in this room, we're watching it together,

44:21

we're doing our best to laugh through it. And I

44:23

just like, we had a good time. We

44:25

had gummy bears. We tried our best. We

44:27

had gummy bears. Wine and beer and. We made the

44:29

best of it, right? You know what, guys? We're all

44:31

French fries. We're all gonna get through it together. You

44:33

bet. Everyone. Hug a lib this

44:35

weekend. Hug a lib this weekend. Did you say we're

44:38

stronger together? We're stronger. Oh. All

44:40

right, everyone. We will talk to you tomorrow

44:42

night in Boston. Why? Bye, everyone.

44:45

Bye. Bye, everyone. Bye. Bye.

44:48

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