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2:01

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

2:04

Tommy Vitor. Welcome back, Tommy. Thank you. I

2:06

know you've been doing the pod anyway, but

2:08

you're now officially back from... Yeah, I'm now

2:10

officially back. I just completed the Amazing Race.

2:14

No, I had a son. Little boy named

2:17

James. How's James doing? He's doing great. I

2:20

mean, you know how it is. The newborn, they

2:22

don't do a ton. They sleep, they eat, you

2:24

console them. So I've been spending a lot of

2:26

time with Lisette, my 17-month-old daughter, who Hannah can't

2:28

pick up because she has a C-section. So Lisette's

2:30

kind of like, I'm on duty. And that has

2:33

honestly been so much fun. I know.

2:35

She's a blast. I felt the same way about

2:37

Charlie, but now that Teddy's five months old and

2:39

he's starting to do things and smile at you,

2:42

Emily every once in a while is like, you

2:45

do have a second son. Have you seen him

2:47

today? Yeah. And James, if you're listening to this

2:49

in 18 years, uh-oh. Right. But no knock on

2:51

you. You're adorable. I love you. You're fun. But

2:53

Lizzie's just such a goofy, hilarious kid at this

2:55

point. So it's been very fun. Our

2:58

other co-host is still on reality TV show,

3:00

Lee. We just got a weather report that

3:02

apparently it has been very rainy where he

3:05

is. Where he presumably is. Right.

3:10

Yeah, we don't know. We literally

3:12

don't know. We think he's organizing Americans

3:14

Abroad and ... but again,

3:17

we're not sure. Is that what Bloomberg won?

3:19

That's the other, yeah. Maybe he's accusing Jeff

3:21

Probst of reading the tribal council by now.

3:24

Maybe he's yelling at the jurors. We don't

3:26

know. We don't know. Wild

3:29

stuff, guys. Yeah, hopefully that rain clears

3:31

up. It's also just you and I

3:33

are laughing about the amount of things

3:35

that have happened in the world that

3:37

are absolutely monumental and huge since he's

3:39

been gone that he just doesn't know

3:41

about. In fact, we wanted

3:43

to put a list together. This is

3:45

good. I'm just ... If you're listening,

3:47

send us, tweeted us some news items.

3:49

Obviously, the verdict, the debate he doesn't

3:51

know about. There's probably a bunch of

3:53

little things that have happened since early

3:55

May when he disappeared. JLo tour getting

3:57

canceled. RIP

4:00

send us all your your fun news and then

4:02

yet your subscriber put it in the discord That's

4:04

right, then we'll definitely see it. Yeah, if and

4:06

when he returns all right, we are gonna talk

4:09

a bit later on the show about the president's

4:11

latest push for a ceasefire in Gaza and Congressional

4:14

leaders asking BB to speak to a

4:16

joint session But first we

4:18

have a lot to cover on the fallout

4:21

from the biggest political story of the year

4:23

Maybe several years which is that the

4:25

Republican nominee for president is

4:28

now a convicted felon We've

4:30

all had a few days to absorb this new reality

4:32

and answer some version of this question

4:34

from family and friends How much

4:36

will this matter Tommy? What do you

4:38

think and what's your overall takeaway from the verdict? We

4:40

haven't heard from you yet It was

4:43

funny because this is like the first time

4:45

in 20 years that

4:47

I was consuming news like a normal person You

4:50

know, it's been my job or me. Yeah, it's been

4:52

my job to consume news since what? 2003 or 2002

4:56

So I was like in the backyard playing with Lizette

4:58

and I looked at my phone and I think I

5:00

also don't have Twitter my phone Anymore because I deleted

5:02

it a long time ago. I try to redownload it,

5:04

but there was a two-step verification Can't

5:07

get it back. Hey winner of the offline just

5:09

both of you guys love it. Love it's very

5:11

offline Well, you're offline too. It was it's not a very

5:14

it's not a story. It looks great I got into a

5:16

dumb argument one weekend and I was walking around the

5:18

mall with my wife and daughter It completely distracted and

5:20

I was like what am I doing to myself? So

5:22

I deleted Twitter and then a couple days later when

5:24

I tried to get my fix and download it again

5:26

I couldn't anyway, so I was good. I mean, it's

5:28

like a normie. I got a text from you I

5:30

think like hey verdict coming so I ran inside and

5:32

watched it and I think my response was just like

5:34

total surprise I just did not

5:37

think the verdict was gonna be swift

5:39

and clear I thought it would

5:41

be muddled because nothing is clean and easy

5:43

in the Trump era I know, you know,

5:45

and then I also I listened to you

5:48

and Dan later I also found myself instantly

5:50

furious at everyone saying this is such

5:52

a dark day for America. I know like I know

5:57

He's he's He's

6:00

been a bad guy all along. He's

6:02

done a whole bunch of bad shit, most of which

6:04

he's gotten away with, some of which he hasn't. He's

6:07

been impeached twice, been held liable for fraud,

6:09

been held liable for sexual abuse. His companies

6:11

now have been held liable for financial fraud.

6:13

I mean ... Yeah, let

6:16

me tell you some dark days in America, some

6:18

sad days in America, the day we elected him,

6:20

the day we failed to impeach him

6:22

on January 6th, thanks to Mitch McConnell,

6:24

the days when we watched Republicans come

6:27

crawling back to Donald Trump to endorse

6:29

him after attacking him when they're running

6:31

against him. This was a very good

6:33

day. January 6th, that was a bad one. That one sucked.

6:35

That one sucked, yeah. Yeah, we've had some dark days with

6:37

him. Some dark days. I was just sort of in shock, and

6:40

then immediately my broken brain went to,

6:42

how will this play in

6:44

this election? Well, with the caveat that

6:47

it usually takes a

6:49

week or two for polling to

6:51

accurately reflect people's reaction to

6:53

any big news event, again, which is

6:56

hard for all of us news junkies to believe

6:58

because our reactions are immediate, but in most of

7:00

the country where people are not paying attention to

7:02

politics, the news sort of filters down, and even

7:04

if they get it right away, they don't really

7:06

form opinions on it for a while. That's just

7:08

always what happens. But we did

7:10

get some initial hints from a few pollsters who

7:13

spoke to voters after the verdict. On

7:16

average, they show a shift towards

7:18

Biden of somewhere between three, three and a half

7:21

points, maybe a little under three now because I

7:23

think there was another morning console poll today that

7:25

showed not much movement. Anything

7:28

in the numbers you find

7:30

notable or surprising? Well, John,

7:33

as a father of two, I'm now seeing

7:35

double the big picture. So I do think

7:37

it's worth ... Dad, you got

7:39

the dad humor for sure. A lot better. It

7:41

never left me. It hurts. I

7:43

do think it is worth just pointing out

7:45

that it is depressing that the numbers didn't move 20 points.

7:50

You would think. But that said, I

7:54

guess I was sort of pleasantly surprised that

7:56

there was real movement. Sometimes voters tell you

7:58

how they're going to feel. about

8:00

an issue and then it happens and

8:02

they actually don't feel that way. So

8:04

I was glad to see that the

8:06

numbers moved a bit. There's also a

8:08

lot of sort of anti-Trump or never-Trump

8:10

Republican types who want us to believe

8:12

that Alvin Bragg basically cemented Trump's reelection

8:14

by prosecuting him and that

8:17

the guilty verdict will only help that. Maybe they're

8:19

right. We won't know for sure until

8:21

the election happens, but those same people probably

8:23

would have told us that the election was over

8:25

if Trump had been found innocent and if there

8:27

was a hung jury. Yeah. I mean,

8:29

I'm not going to get into this way more than I did. What do you think?

8:32

I mean, I honestly don't know and I really

8:34

do think it's too early to tell, particularly because

8:36

I think the biggest

8:38

impact could be on voters who

8:41

aren't paying attention, which are in the polls.

8:43

These are some of the voters who Biden

8:46

has, if you believe the polls, has lost to

8:48

Trump or who are flirting with supporting Trump or

8:50

not voting at all. And

8:52

so it's going to be even tougher to measure what they think.

8:55

They're not paying attention to the news

8:57

ever. And so maybe they haven't

8:59

made up their minds yet. So I think that's tough.

9:02

I also think if you are someone

9:04

who has been with Trump this

9:06

whole time through the two impeachments, through

9:08

the insurrection, through all the bullshit, I don't think

9:11

a guilty verdict is going to change your mind.

9:13

No. So if you're a liberal

9:15

or if you're someone who has decided you're

9:18

not voting for Donald Trump, I can't

9:21

imagine a guilty verdict making someone who hasn't

9:24

voted for Donald Trump be like, oh, you

9:27

know what? Now I'm going to vote for him because

9:29

I think that it's a travesty of injustice or something.

9:31

I think that's bullshit. Yeah. Maybe

9:34

if you're a single issue, the justice system

9:36

is broken voter that might get you. But

9:38

normally you aren't focused on the way the

9:40

justice system treats rich, powerful people in Manhattan

9:43

because they tend to do okay. I did

9:45

notice, I think the Times had a

9:47

write up of some of their old polling that

9:49

they found that Trump voters, they don't buy this

9:51

election interference frame for the New York House. But

9:54

they did find some independents who were just kind of generally

9:56

worried. Like how would you serve as president

9:59

while you're a. felon, the logistics, the image of it

10:01

all. I can imagine, you know, you kind of, you

10:03

don't really know how it's going to feel to vote

10:05

for this guy until you get into the booth and

10:07

you think about, like, what message does this

10:09

send the world? How's this going to work? I

10:12

think that's a big, for, for, for normies, for

10:14

disengaged normies, I think that's a big one. Like,

10:16

do you want, we're overthinking

10:18

this. You know, we're overcome, like, do you want

10:20

a convicted felon as president? Do you want the

10:22

rest of the rest of the world looking at

10:25

America and being like, oh yeah, they, they elevated

10:27

a criminal, an unrepentant

10:29

criminal to the most powerful office

10:31

in the world. You don't want that. No,

10:34

no, no. People don't think that's a good

10:36

thing unless you're like, and you really love

10:38

Trump, right? Obviously, you know, I think the

10:40

ABC Ipsos poll showed most voters

10:42

think the verdict was correct. Most

10:44

voters think that Trump should end his campaign. Again,

10:46

it's like 49, 50%. So it's

10:48

pretty close, but it's not like there's

10:50

a majority or 49% that think that

10:53

the verdict was incorrect or that Trump should stay. That's

10:55

in like the thirties. There's, there's, you know, there's again,

10:57

like usual, a segment of voters who were like, I

10:59

don't know what to think yet. And

11:02

I think that's what we're going to have to watch in

11:04

the coming weeks. Speaking of

11:06

November Trumpers, our friend Sarah Longwell did a

11:08

focus group of two time Trump voters who

11:10

were down on Trump after the

11:12

verdict. And five of nine said

11:14

that the verdicts has made them less likely

11:16

to vote for Trump. So one focus group,

11:19

but that's something. I'll take it.

11:21

Let's talk about the reaction from the newly

11:23

convicted criminal himself. On Friday, Trump gave

11:25

a long and rambling speech at the

11:28

scene of the crime Trump Tower, where

11:31

he took responsibility for his actions and

11:33

asked the American people to forgive him.

11:35

Just kidding. He called the judge the

11:38

devil and attacked Joe Biden. Democrats, the

11:40

prosecutors, the witnesses falsely claimed that the

11:42

defense witnesses were quote, literally crucified and

11:45

told a bunch of lies about our criminal justice

11:47

system. Trump kept the crazy train going on Sunday

11:49

where he sat down with his pals at Fox

11:51

and friends to take a, take about an

11:54

hour's worth of softballs. Here's

11:56

some of what he had to say about the verdict.

12:00

I think it would be tough for the public to

12:02

take. You know, at a certain point there's

12:04

a breaking point, and it sounds

12:06

beautiful, right? You know, my revenge will be

12:08

a success. And I mean that. But

12:11

it's awfully hard when you see what they've

12:13

done. These people are so evil.

12:16

And at the same time, the country can come together. You

12:19

know, I'm saying this, but the country can come together. Hillary

12:22

Clinton, I didn't say lock her up, but the people don't

12:24

say lock her up, lock her up, okay. So

12:28

he's never said, he's never said

12:30

lock her up, never said lock her

12:32

up. We do have, I think, a

12:35

clip that might contradict that statement. Lock

12:37

her up, lock her up, lock her

12:39

up. For what she's done, they should

12:41

lock her up. So,

12:44

cook it, Hillary. Wait. Cook

12:46

it and you should lock her up, I'll tell

12:48

you. Hillary Clinton has to go to jail, okay?

12:50

She has to go to jail. Lock up the

12:52

dice. Lock up Hillary.

12:55

If she were to win this election,

12:58

it would create an

13:00

unprecedented constitutional crisis.

13:04

In that situation, we

13:06

could very well have a

13:09

sitting president under felony

13:11

indictment and ultimately a

13:14

criminal trial. That would

13:16

be horrible. Pressing. We would not want that.

13:19

Now we don't just have a sitting president under

13:21

a felony trial, we have a sitting president. Who

13:23

is a felon? That is okay, even better. I

13:25

do love that there's a distinction, well, it's for

13:28

obviously he lied about not saying lock her up,

13:30

but I do love that there would be a

13:32

distinction between saying lock her up or just basking

13:34

in the Nuremberg-like glow of thousands of people chanting

13:36

it at you at a rally. He's such a

13:39

fucking ... He also asked the Supreme Court to

13:41

step in and overturn the verdict,

13:43

which isn't really how that works. State

13:45

court, Supreme Court, I guess there's ...

13:48

We talked to Norm about this and

13:50

Melissa Murray, there's a small chance that once you

13:52

go through the entire appeals process, maybe somehow they

13:54

can move it to federal. It

13:56

seems very unlikely it wouldn't happen for years anyway. I

13:58

listened to Melissa. explain that and rewound it like three

14:01

times and I still didn't get it. But she knows

14:03

what she's talking about. One thing that certainly is not

14:05

going to happen is that the Supreme Court just jumps

14:07

up and steps in right now. I love that. I

14:10

love that. I'm calling on the Supreme Court to step in.

14:12

I mean, one, you know that Clarence Thomas and Justice Alito

14:14

called in some of their top clerks and they were like,

14:16

I figured out a way to do this. Is there any

14:19

way we can make this happen? Well, you also see that

14:21

everyone, they're all flying the flag upside down like Martha. Yes.

14:24

So Alito. Yes. This

14:26

is the new thing now. Yeah. So the

14:28

mag of people are going to fly their flags upside down, the

14:30

American flag? I saw MTG tweeted it, which

14:32

is usually a sign that in three or

14:35

four days, everyone's going to be doing whatever

14:37

he's doing. The Heritage Foundation put it up

14:39

an upside down flag too. That's good. Look,

14:41

I think that I'm just a patriot. I

14:43

like to fly the American flag the right

14:45

way up. That's a

14:47

crazy lib political position, but I'm for the

14:49

flag being right side up. John's pro flag.

14:52

What do you make of Trump's reaction so far? I mean, I watched

14:55

the speech in its entirety this morning. The

14:57

Friday speech. The Friday speech, sorry. In

14:59

its entirety, it is a total mess. The

15:02

gag order makes him more

15:04

incoherent than usual because he's sort of talking

15:06

around names of people so he doesn't get

15:08

fined again or more jail time. He started

15:10

by trying to make an argument about immigration.

15:13

Did you catch this? Something

15:15

about how they're bringing in criminals. It didn't

15:17

work. It lasted about 30 seconds of a 30 minute

15:19

speech. I'm sure that was drafted for him.

15:22

His advisors were like, somehow make this about

15:24

immigration. Yeah. Didn't work. When

15:27

I was talking about the January 6th

15:29

committee, he's attacking random critics like Adam

15:31

Kinzinger. Yeah. Catch that. I

15:34

did laugh. I mean, he's not. I

15:36

don't even know what he ... That's why he's

15:38

so deep in the maggots. I don't

15:40

ever remember Adam Kinzinger crying about anything, but I don't

15:42

know. I'm sure. Yeah, when did he cry

15:44

on TV? I was like, what are you talking about? He's making

15:46

up stats about terrorism. It was just a mess. In the middle,

15:49

I thought there was a compelling argument, which

15:51

is, look, the Southern District of New

15:53

York didn't take this. Alvin Bragg didn't want

15:55

to take this case. When I Decided

15:57

to run for president again, that's when they

16:00

picked this. this is about defeating me. I

16:02

think maybe there's something there story you could

16:04

tell there that could be convincing in the

16:06

broader Message is always. Dot. I'm

16:08

taking these attacks to protect you, which is proven

16:10

pretty effective for him. but I don't. I don't

16:12

know that isn't. Isn't. Land on the

16:14

elevator pitch for the sing it. Well. I

16:17

think both see immigration message that you

16:19

mentioned and some of the other stuff.

16:21

I think that on Fox and friends

16:23

a line where he said successful be

16:25

his revenge as a that was very

16:28

telling and all of the surface. I.

16:30

Think his advisors are pushing because.

16:33

They. Know it's not popular. To.

16:35

Campaign on a promise to jail your political

16:37

opponents, rent, and the people who held you

16:39

accountable for breaking the law. The.

16:41

Guy hasn't been elected. Yeah, I think they're well

16:43

aware of that. He hasn't even been sentenced yet.

16:46

They're probably well aware of that as well. Yeah,

16:48

I gotta a. it's up to Judge Marshawn. To

16:51

figure out his future here. But.

16:53

He's also Donald Trump and he can't help himself.

16:55

Now he's going to make this about himself. He's

16:58

gonna make this about his grievances, is gonna make

17:00

this about how badly he wants revenge. so he's

17:02

not going to give eve already in a couple

17:04

days. He's not gonna be able to. Have

17:07

maintained the discipline to deliver a message

17:09

about this conviction that could somehow help

17:11

them. which by the way I think

17:13

it's a product pushing a boulder up

17:15

a hill there. but nonetheless I don't

17:17

think he's gonna he's gonna was say

17:19

the right message game in part of

17:21

this radius. go me with someone I

17:23

down at the I at the courthouse

17:25

and do a psychological evaluation yes to

17:28

talk about these ever been in jail

17:30

before he says i'm just like recent

17:32

think interview imagine all of the things

17:34

he sang currently could be com a

17:36

part of the consideration. When he sends

17:38

i you majesty be a little more careful

17:40

Rainout yeah I think the key here is

17:42

like he wants to go After bragged he

17:45

wants to go after the judge two months

17:47

ago after the democrats I didn't go a

17:49

sunny the his on his own lawyer or

17:51

Joe Tacopina x lawyer or tapioca. he said

17:54

that does that. Arguing that Biden had something

17:56

to do with this was like the crazy

17:58

thing ever heard. How interesting. He could

18:00

get a steak or that's that's Trump's Oh my yes.

18:02

I also remember like. They. Were headlines. One

18:05

of the first things Alvin Bragg did when he

18:07

took office. Was. To announce that

18:09

he was not continuing the investigation into Trump's

18:11

financial fraud Race: To Not a guy who

18:13

was like payment of like I'm going to

18:16

get it wasn't Dinah? Get re. Any rate,

18:18

he only took the case when he thought

18:20

that there was enough evidence for him. And

18:22

again you can think that. Everyone's

18:24

always confused by these polls that for

18:26

most Americans think that maybe the charges

18:28

were politically motivated, but yet they do

18:30

think that Trump is also guilty only.

18:33

That's the weird because it is possible

18:35

we have what we have elected prosecutors

18:37

in this country and so it is.

18:39

And and prosecutors make decisions about cases

18:41

all the time. Sometimes they're good decisions,

18:43

sometimes they're bad decisions. That's how we

18:45

have fucking Juri Smith and and a

18:47

Sucky As You Had Age or even

18:49

If Album Break had some political motivation

18:51

in his mind. It. Doesn't matter

18:53

because a jury of his

18:55

peers. Heard the evidence, a jury.

18:57

By the way, that Trump's. Defense.

19:00

Lawyers helps pick and approved of. Ultimately,

19:02

that jury heard the evidence, took nine

19:04

hours, and was like oh yeah, he's

19:06

guilty. Yeah, I think that's important. Eight

19:09

in Trump's trying to suggest that that

19:11

charity is incredible because of where they

19:13

live in. I don't have that flies

19:16

anybody. As. They all are now,

19:18

right? there is all the Republicans are

19:20

basically saying: juries that hear cases in

19:22

places that tend to vote for Democrats

19:24

aren't legitimate prosecutors who are elected in

19:26

places the tend to vote for Democrats

19:28

aren't legitimate judges who are pointed in

19:31

places that rights and what are the

19:33

only the only legitimate criminal justice system

19:35

is the criminal justice system that operates

19:37

in deep red areas of the country

19:39

that in many cases trump. Gave.

19:41

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23:16

I think the most, on that note,

23:18

I think the most disturbing reactions have

23:20

been from just about every Republican politician.

23:22

Like in a pre-Trump world, you

23:25

can imagine Republicans reacting like their

23:28

Maryland Senate candidate, former Maryland Governor

23:30

Larry Hogan did. Before

23:32

the verdict came down, he urged Americans to

23:35

respect the verdict and the legal process. Got

23:37

in a little bit of trouble for that we can talk about. Or

23:40

Mitt Romney, right? Mitt Romney said, you know, I

23:42

think the DA made a political decision and he

23:45

should have just settled the case against Trump. But

23:47

that's as far as he went. I disagree with

23:49

Mitt Romney on that. But like

23:51

it's you know, you could you could imagine

23:53

again in a pre-Trump world, Republicans saying something

23:55

like that and leave it alone. That's not even close

23:57

to what's happening. Here's what some Republicans are

23:59

saying. Is it a good idea for

24:01

the Republican Party to nominate a convicted felon? Listen,

24:05

is it a good idea that Donald Trump is

24:08

the nominee? The answer is 100% yes. I

24:11

do believe this Supreme Court should step in.

24:13

Obviously, this is totally unprecedented, and it's dangerous

24:15

to our system. I mean, this is what

24:17

you see in banana republics. Banana

24:20

republics never stop with the guy

24:22

at the top. We have gone

24:24

over a cliff in America. Will

24:27

you condemn those threats? Well, Peter,

24:29

I don't know what obscure websites that you've gone

24:31

to. Well, no, this is the truth social. It's

24:33

not an obscure website. An individual says, I hope

24:35

every juror is doxed, and they pay for what they

24:37

have done. May God strike them dead. We

24:39

will on November 5th, and they will pay. You can

24:41

condemn that threat, can you? Again, I

24:44

will always say that violence has no place

24:46

in our politics. Again, I don't know what

24:48

obscure account you found on social media. Boys,

24:50

it is on truth social science website. So

24:52

we got the MAGA speaker asking the

24:54

MAGA majority on the Supreme Court to

24:56

overturn the jury's verdict. MAGA

24:58

senators sent a letter over

25:01

the weekend saying that they are not going

25:03

to confirm any more judges, any

25:06

more of the government's nominees, or

25:08

fund the government, or do anything

25:10

outside of defense on appropriations because

25:12

a jury found Trump guilty. That's

25:14

what they've decided. The MAGA internet

25:16

is calling for war, threatening to

25:18

dox jurors, jail democrats, commit violence.

25:20

It seems like a totally normal

25:22

reaction, huh? Did you see Marjorie

25:24

Taylor Greene said she wants to defund New

25:26

York? I did see that. Not just the city, the

25:28

entire state. I did see that. They're going to defund New York.

25:31

No federal funds for the state of New York. How

25:34

do you take this? Is this like lunatics

25:36

just letting off some steam, or do

25:38

you think Republicans are going to make this

25:40

verdict like a big focus of the campaign?

25:42

I mean, I bet most of it is

25:44

sucking up. Do you see Tim Sheehy running

25:46

for Senate in Montana, put up an ad

25:48

focused on Trump's prosecution? My

25:51

guess is a lot of these guys are like,

25:53

all right, how do I kiss his ass the

25:55

fastest and make sure that he'll

25:57

be there for me later when I need fundraisers?

26:00

or political support. That said, I mean,

26:02

you and I were talking earlier in our office,

26:05

Republicans are very focused on vengeance and revenge these

26:07

days. For example, Dr.

26:09

Fauci was testifying on Capitol Hill

26:11

today. Are there a lot of people

26:13

who want to revisit the pandemic right

26:15

now? I don't want to. I don't

26:17

know why Dr. Fauci was getting screamed

26:19

at by Marjorie Taylor Greene. The thing

26:21

I'm worried about the most though is

26:24

the vigilante violence. It takes one

26:26

person. I mean, everyone forgets. Before

26:28

January 6th, remember back in

26:30

2018 when that guy in Florida sent

26:32

16 pipe bombs to prominent

26:35

Democrats he believed were Trump's

26:37

enemies, right? I mean, someone

26:40

like Barack Obama

26:42

or Hillary Clinton, they have layers of security

26:44

to protect themselves from that kind of stuff.

26:46

But if I were a juror or an

26:48

employee in the New York court system, I

26:50

would be pretty scared. Yeah. I've

26:53

been thinking about

26:55

how difficult it's been to convince people

26:57

that a second Trump

27:00

term would be very scary, right?

27:02

Not just talk about like Trump's going to give

27:04

another tax cut and all the things that poll

27:06

very well, but the

27:08

idea that he could invoke the

27:11

insurrection acts, that he's going to do these deportation

27:13

results and stuff. I think

27:16

the Trump cult is most threatening and menacing when

27:18

they are afraid of losing power and they are

27:20

challenged, right? This is when they lost the election.

27:22

Obviously that's how it happened in January 6th. This

27:24

is now when Trump has been convicted. And this

27:26

is when they really show their true selves because

27:29

as long as you don't challenge them and just

27:31

let them stay in power, they're going to do

27:33

all their bad shit and they're going to be

27:35

corrupt and make money, but they're just going to

27:37

just. But once

27:39

they're threatened, they really show their true

27:41

colors. I mean, the CEO

27:44

of the Federalist, Sean Davis. That guy is

27:46

the worst. He said, he tweeted

27:48

that he wants lists of Democrats that

27:50

will go to prison. He wants prosecutors

27:52

in red districts to start prosecuting Democrats.

27:55

And he says that the right has a

27:57

quote moral obligation to terrorize the left until

27:59

it's. destroyed because of this. You

28:02

know, you heard Peter Alexander on Meet

28:04

the Press talking to Tom Cotton about

28:06

these threats. Some of them, and NBC

28:08

reported this, someone said, we need to

28:10

identify each juror, make them miserable, maybe

28:12

even suicidal. Another one said one million

28:14

armed men need to go to Washington

28:16

and hang everyone. The Proud Boys have

28:18

been posting the word war. And

28:20

a convicted January 6th defendant, the kind

28:22

that Trump wants to pardon, tweeted a

28:24

photo of Alvin Bragg and a noose

28:26

and said January 20th, 2025, traitors get

28:30

the rope. And it's just genuinely scary

28:32

to say something like that. And also,

28:34

you know, there was once a big

28:36

debate about whether online

28:38

commentary could lead to offline violence. Well,

28:40

I think we kind of settled that

28:42

one on January 6th. One other thing

28:44

I just wanted to quickly take on

28:47

is you heard Ted Cruz there say

28:49

this is banana republic stuff, the prosecution

28:51

of the former president. That is, first

28:54

of all, there's like weird data terminology

28:56

though. It's a third world or banana

28:58

republic stuff. It's just nonsense.

29:00

It's also just wrong. Like

29:03

France, Israel, Italy, Germany, Portugal

29:05

have all indicted presidents or

29:07

prime ministers. Nicholas

29:09

Sarkozy was convicted in 2021. BBNet

29:11

and Yahoo is currently on

29:13

trial for corruption. It has been for years.

29:15

So I think if anything, the US, we

29:18

are an outlier in how little we seem

29:20

to hold these corrupt political leaders accountable. And

29:22

of all those countries you mentioned, most

29:25

of them have not returned those leaders to

29:28

power. Right. Right. Lula

29:31

has been returned to power, but that's because his

29:33

charges were thrown out, right? His conviction was thrown

29:35

out. And then the other one

29:37

that looms large, Berlusconi, who

29:39

in 2013, when they were going to put him

29:41

in jail was like, oh, there'll be riots in

29:44

the street. There will be, you know, he essentially

29:46

threatened kind of an insurrection.

29:48

Again, none of these

29:51

Republican politicians or MAGA

29:53

people on the right are making the

29:55

case that what Trump did was legal.

29:57

Right. They Keep calling it a paperwork issue.

30:00

Owning his you like but a guy did was

30:02

try to win an election by paying the enquirer

30:04

to make up bad stories about his opponents. He

30:06

tried to kill bad stories about himself and then

30:08

he covered the whole thing up so that the

30:11

voters wouldn't know. That's what he didn't No one's

30:13

saying that that is legal takers like Banana Republic,

30:15

Route A Great had a victim prayer and basically

30:17

republicans are saying is your Donald Trump You get

30:20

to do that even if it's against or even

30:22

if a jury decides it's against the last. You

30:24

get to do it because you're Donald Trump. That's.

30:27

That's the argument to making. which is this

30:29

stuff is all this. I think the Republican

30:31

reaction to me is scarier and more menacing

30:33

that even Trump's reaction. Because Trump, you obvious

30:35

expect to do that in the Republican. The

30:37

entire Republican party is like very worrisome that

30:39

they're doing that because they could incite violence.

30:41

I also think it's the most politically damaging

30:43

thing for them to do, and I think

30:45

that's what we were inside my biden. But

30:47

Biden specifically called of the attacks and the

30:49

justice system, but telling voters that now not

30:51

only Donald Trump of the entire Republican Party,

30:53

this whole campaign and all they want to

30:55

do is just. To take revenge

30:57

out on their enemies and you have. A

31:00

bunch of senators were like we're not doing

31:02

our jobs anymore because were pissed the Donald

31:04

Trump got convicted of some own. People.

31:07

I don't that doesn't very popular voters, you

31:09

know, I don't think our an eye for

31:11

an eye is the pretty bedrock principle upon

31:13

which this country was was founded. I think

31:15

it's a whole different the math. So let's

31:17

like what? The reaction from Joe Biden and

31:19

the only normal party less American politics ah

31:21

by campaign has been calling Trump a convicted

31:24

felon. They also trotted out white collar crook

31:26

today. I like that's the President himself has

31:28

been a bit more restrained though he still

31:30

addressed the verdict during a speech on Friday.

31:32

Look for. The jury heard

31:34

five weeks of evidence. Five weeks.

31:37

After careful deliberation, Juri

31:40

see unanimous verdict. They

31:43

found out some guilty. On.

31:45

All thirty four felony counts now

31:47

be given the opportunity as he

31:49

should to feel that this isn't

31:51

just like everyone else has set

31:54

up or to. that's

31:56

how they marriage system of justice works

32:00

And it's reckless. It's

32:02

dangerous. It's irresponsible for anyone

32:04

to say this was rigged just

32:07

because they don't like the verdict. What

32:10

did you think about the response from Biden and his campaign?

32:12

I mean, I understood the reticence before

32:14

there was a verdict to comment on this,

32:16

because Biden didn't want to play into this

32:18

narrative that he was directing the prosecution and

32:20

the belief that we're all innocent until proven

32:23

guilty is, you know, at the heart of

32:25

the US legal system, in most legal systems.

32:27

That said, now that we have a verdict

32:29

rendered by a jury of Trump's peers, I

32:31

think not only is there no

32:33

way to avoid talking about it, but it's

32:35

literally the obvious and advantageous thing to do.

32:38

It is historic. It is the biggest piece of

32:41

news and negative information that we'll probably

32:43

learn about Trump in this entire election

32:45

cycle. And Trump is going

32:47

to try to blame his own corruption on Joe Biden.

32:49

So you have to be out there talking about it.

32:52

I like that Biden started big.

32:55

No one is above the law. This

32:57

was a jury of his peers. I think constantly

32:59

reminding people that Trump was convicted by a jury

33:01

is key. And then in some of the other

33:03

cases, I mean, it's hard for Biden to talk

33:05

about this, but in some of these other cases,

33:07

indictments were passed down by grand jury. Yes. You

33:10

know what I mean? This is not like someone

33:12

at DOJ being like, this one, that one,

33:14

that charge, let's get them on this one.

33:17

These are citizens making these decisions. So, you

33:19

know, I think the challenge is going to

33:21

be, will this thing get memory

33:23

holds, like every other piece of information that's happened in

33:25

this country? And I do think it's on Joe

33:27

Biden and his campaign and all of us to make

33:30

sure it does not. I totally agree.

33:32

I also think that I'm glad that

33:34

he brought up the appeals process, too. Me

33:36

too. Because again, if Trump's going

33:38

to appeal this, and if the New

33:40

York Court of Appeals overturns the conviction, like,

33:43

well, of course, we'd be personally disappointed. Yes.

33:45

But am I going to sit there and

33:47

be like, that court was rigged and

33:49

the fix is in. It's

33:51

like, no, accept the decision. That justice was, that's

33:53

justice. That's our legal system. Like, what are you

33:56

going to do? You say appeal, I say news

33:58

hook. So the story keeps going. plan it out

34:00

and keep it in the news. I also think that,

34:03

I like that he said no one's above the law. It

34:06

was right for Biden to call out

34:08

the attacks on the judicial system. I think

34:10

as we move on, there's

34:13

a lot of Americans who probably way before

34:15

Trump have not had complete faith in the American

34:17

judicial system. There's a lot to criticize. And there's

34:19

a lot to criticize. A lot to criticize. And

34:21

I think that the key here is Donald

34:24

Trump thinks he's above the law. He

34:27

thinks that there's a separate set of rules for him

34:30

than there is for everyone else. So

34:32

there's Alvin Bragg, since he took office,

34:34

brought dozens and

34:36

dozens of these exact charges

34:39

against other criminal defendants and

34:41

won convictions too. So

34:43

are we to say now that those people should

34:45

get jail time and those people should deal with

34:47

a guilty verdict but Donald Trump doesn't have to?

34:49

I think that's the powerful argument there is that

34:51

he thinks he gets to get away with whatever

34:53

he wants because he's fucking Donald Trump and all

34:55

the rest of the people in America, they have

34:58

to abide by the law. Right. And

35:00

I just think big picture, if you're

35:02

looking at our justice system and looking

35:04

for problems and inequities, you're

35:06

more likely to find them when you

35:09

see the draconian sentences handed down to

35:11

nonviolent drug laws and not, boy, this

35:13

country is way too hard on white

35:16

color criminals and corrupt business people. Those

35:18

folks tend to skate because they can

35:20

afford great lawyers. Yeah. That's

35:22

what we have to say about our country when

35:25

you can't even run for office without participating in

35:27

a catch and kill scheme with the National Enquirer

35:29

and then cover up the whole story. I

35:31

know. And that is the piece of this,

35:34

how dare they deny him the presidency? Right.

35:36

Exactly. Well, that's what January 6th

35:39

was about. So Democrats all

35:41

seem to agree that we should be... I've seen

35:43

all these headlines, like there's a debate with Democrats

35:45

about whether they should talk about this or not.

35:48

And you really look at it like everyone

35:50

seems to be in agreement that Joe Biden

35:52

and Democrats should be talking about this. The

35:55

fact that the Republicans are nominating a convicted felon

35:57

to be president. There has been some

35:59

debate about... how much the Biden campaign and

36:01

other elected Dems should focus on it.

36:03

What's your take on that? I mean,

36:06

for other electeds, I assume it

36:08

will just be case by case based on, book,

36:10

Democrats are going to try to rally their base

36:12

and raise money off of this. Republicans are going

36:14

to do the same thing. So if you're in

36:16

a more progressive state, if you're in Maryland, you're

36:19

probably going to talk about this a lot, try

36:21

to rally the base and get out the vote.

36:23

And that's why Larry Hogan, the Republican nominee there

36:25

took a much more reasonable rational stance. If

36:28

you're John Tester in Montana, where his

36:30

opponent put up an ad talking about the deep

36:32

state going after Trump, that's probably not the thing

36:34

he wants to talk about. He's going to talk

36:37

about whatever is polling well in those issues. I

36:39

think at the presidential level,

36:41

like for the Biden campaign, this

36:43

should be their core argument to

36:46

discredit Trump. Right. I mean,

36:49

the fact that we're asking this question seems crazy. I

36:51

know. I feel like I feel like I'm taking

36:53

crazy pills just reading about this debate. Like, again,

36:55

we don't have to overthink this. What's the

36:58

counter argument? We don't have the counter argument

37:00

about gas prices that the negatives about Donald

37:02

Trump are already baked in and that

37:04

this doesn't affect people's lives as much. And so

37:07

people know that Donald Trump is

37:09

a bad guy. And so

37:11

if you just tell them, if you remind them

37:13

that he's a convicted felon, they're going to like,

37:15

yeah, I know he's a bad guy, but I'm

37:17

upset about gas prices or I'm upset about whatever

37:20

they're upset about with Joe Biden. And

37:22

I think that I'd rather have

37:24

a bad guy in a good economy than Joe Biden.

37:26

And the bad economy. This would be the argument from

37:28

the other side. Yeah. And I guess, you know, you're

37:30

sort of straw manning and I appreciate that. Maybe the

37:32

pushback is like, well, you know, being a felon doesn't

37:34

mean you're a bad guy. It just means you're not

37:37

fit to serve as president of the United States.

37:39

Or and this is very new information, like

37:42

the constitutional challenges it creates. Like, is

37:44

he going to run? Could

37:46

he be elected and then get put on

37:48

house arrest? Like, how is any of this going to work?

37:50

He's banned from 37 countries

37:54

as a convicted felon. You're the 37 other

37:56

38 countries included in the United States, but

37:58

there's 37 countries that don't like. Did

38:00

Barr convicted felon- Did Barr go to like cool

38:02

countries? He can't buy a gun? He

38:06

would be discharged from the military. Oh yeah.

38:09

When you put it that way. It's not

38:11

a good look to be a convicted felon. I

38:14

also think, I

38:16

would not say Donald Trump's if I was on the

38:18

Biden campaign, which already they're doing, and you look at

38:20

all their press releases, so I'm not criticizing for this.

38:24

If I was the Biden campaign, if I was an elected Democrat,

38:26

maybe some exceptions for a John Tester or

38:28

someone like that in a T phrase. I

38:31

would not say Donald Trump's name

38:33

between now and November without including

38:36

the phrase convicted felon or white

38:38

collar crook like the Biden campaign is doing. If

38:41

I had more room to say it, I would remind

38:43

people, like you said, that he was found guilty by

38:45

a jury of his peers, that his

38:48

lawyers helped pick for a crime

38:50

that the prosecutor has indicted hundreds of other defendants

38:52

for. I would say all that. I

38:55

also think that I would tie the

38:57

verdict and the fact that he's a convicted

39:00

felon into a larger message about him, and

39:02

it fits perfectly because the larger message is Donald

39:04

Trump is only in it for himself. Exactly. He's

39:07

only running to keep himself out of jail. He

39:09

is only running so that he can keep himself

39:11

from being broke. He does not

39:13

give a shit about you at every opportunity he's

39:15

ever had in life. He throws people under the

39:17

bus who are very loyal to him. See

39:20

Michael Cohen and the people

39:22

who testified against him at trial. All

39:24

he cares about is himself. That's why he's in it.

39:27

If you elect him, you might think he's going to help

39:29

you, but you will be disappointed just like everyone else in

39:31

his life has been. That is the

39:33

kind of person ... He is a con man, and

39:35

now he is a convicted felon. I would make that

39:38

argument. I totally ... I think the fact that it

39:40

folds so perfectly into this broader narrative that Biden's already

39:42

taking is what makes this ... what

39:44

makes it key. This is not just some

39:46

data point that shows that he's like kind

39:49

of a gross or crass person or untoward.

39:51

No, this fits in perfectly with these reports. I

39:53

think it was the Washington Post where he's going

39:55

to oil and gas lobbyists and being like, give

39:57

me a million bucks and I'll slash your regular

39:59

... He's calling donors and trying to get

40:01

them to 10x their donation to

40:03

like super PACs and the RNC and offering

40:06

political favors to them This is bread and

40:08

butter corruption and people do not like that.

40:10

There's just a story We're gonna talk about

40:12

Gaza in a second But there's just a

40:14

story that Miriam Adelson Sheldon Adelson's wife who's

40:16

like one of the richest women in the

40:18

world now Said she's ready

40:20

to donate to Trump and go all-in on Trump,

40:22

but her price is Him

40:24

coming out for complete annexation of the West

40:26

Bank. Yeah, that's the kind of that's the

40:28

kind of presidency You get that's the kind of

40:31

paid a point leadership you get in a country

40:33

where there's an autocrat as a leader right to

40:36

play This is what authoritarians do. They just they

40:38

get into office and they make themselves rich They

40:40

help their family they help their friends and

40:43

everyone else can fuck off and that's what

40:45

this verdict shows for Donald Trump I think

40:47

Trump obviously gives Democrats a lot of material

40:49

to work with aside from being convicted felon,

40:52

which You shouldn't need

40:54

more, but I guess I guess we do Even

40:56

in that Fox and Friends interview. He said quite a few alarming things

40:58

that didn't get as much attention Here

41:01

are just a couple. Do you think

41:03

the public will have the appetite the

41:05

stomach for watching deportations on their television

41:07

screen? Well, that question is so So

41:10

great and so tough so you'll

41:12

get rid of ten really bad ones and

41:15

one, you know beautiful mother

41:17

and It'll

41:20

become a story then

41:23

it's gonna always be tough It's not gonna be easy

41:25

when they say that The

41:27

seas will rise over the next 400 years

41:29

one eighth of an inch, you know, which means basically

41:31

have a little more beachfront property Okay, there's not walk

41:34

in the military. There's walk at the top. They want

41:36

there to be work, but these guys aren't meant for

41:42

Yes, I would get rid of them yeah, but see now

41:44

I know him I didn't know him before but you know,

41:46

I came in What do I know? I was a New

41:49

York real estate person, but no I fire I would

41:51

fire them You can't have welcome military.

41:53

We're gonna cut the Department of Education.

41:55

Let it be run locally. We

41:58

have the department of education And

42:00

it other than to have a little tiny coordination, you

42:02

know, it'd be nice to make sure that everybody's teaching

42:05

English Yeah, you know let them learn English. Okay.

42:07

I love it Also

42:10

the Department of Interior to know parks No, we're

42:12

not for that Biden campaign has been pushing these

42:14

around but are there any you think are particularly

42:16

damaging to Trump? That's a lot. It's a lot

42:18

of crazy shit in that interview aside from the

42:20

verdict stuff Yeah, I think I would focus on

42:22

the fact that this man chose to spend 90

42:25

minutes of this time Three idiot

42:27

Fox and friends weekend anchors

42:29

like can you think of anything worse?

42:31

Yeah the B team There's

42:33

I didn't even realize there was a Fox and

42:35

Friends B team a second string Fox

42:37

and Friends like from like a boat X

42:40

real world star there Rachel

42:42

Rachel campo from Boston. Yeah. Yeah, I

42:44

like that season too. What's

42:47

her husband's name using? He's in con John Duffy. Yes,

42:49

Sean Duffy in Wisconsin. Is he still there? I don't

42:51

know. Yeah, he was like a Like

42:53

a logger or something. It was a wild interview. I

42:55

can't say that I watched the full hour and a

42:57

half The response to

43:00

the deportation question like what a beautiful tough

43:02

question Let's get rid of one be like

43:04

he's imagining it and sort of fantasizing about

43:06

it It's also very damaging because I

43:08

think this is exactly what we need to

43:10

get people to understand about the deportation Plans

43:13

that he has because I think a lot of people

43:15

in the country think it is, you

43:17

know Newer entrance from the border people

43:19

who just crossed the border But this

43:21

is like massive raids in cities trying

43:24

to deport people who've been here for decades

43:26

Yeah Who have families here who are like

43:28

deeply enmeshed in our communities and you

43:30

can imagine I took to Ron Brown seen

43:33

about this for the wilderness and he Did

43:36

a lot of reporting on this like these

43:38

deportation forces who can either be local

43:40

police or National Guard or the military?

43:43

Going like house-to-house like

43:45

raiding them raiding offices workplaces You're like people

43:47

are kids are going to school watching like

43:49

their parents be like let out in handcuffs

43:51

and deported like this is just chaos Yeah,

43:53

and they're gonna end Stephen Miller's bragging about

43:56

it. No, they love gonna do it Charlie

43:58

Kirk's bragging about it all their friends Yeah,

44:00

I think unfortunately far

44:03

more voters than we'd like to

44:05

believe as it generally identify with

44:07

Trump's immigration views, but that

44:09

is a bridge too far and that is scary for

44:11

a lot of people. Yeah, but I think all of

44:13

these are of a piece, all of the things that

44:15

he said there of what we were just talking about,

44:17

right? Like the immigrants he knows aren't getting

44:19

deported, right? Melania is not getting deported.

44:23

His kids won't be affected by eliminating the

44:25

Department of Education. Climate change

44:27

probably will mean more beachfront property for him.

44:31

It's like, at one point he's Mar-a-Lago underwater, though

44:33

we have to figure that out. But he's not

44:35

getting hurt by climate change. He's rich as hell,

44:37

right? So he wants loyal generals, again,

44:40

who are going to do whatever he tells them to

44:42

do. I keep saying Mike Flynn,

44:44

chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mike Flynn, QAnon

44:46

guy, is going to be- Flynn

44:49

is back. Yeah. I'm starting

44:51

to regret getting a cameo from him at any

44:53

time, putting money in his pocket. But again, it's

44:55

all- as long as Trump's going to be okay

44:57

if he's president, the rest of us will not

44:59

because he doesn't give a shit. Podsave

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48:32

right. We should also note that Hunter Biden's criminal trial

48:34

has begun in Delaware. The president's son

48:37

has been charged with lying about his drug use on a

48:39

form he filled out to buy a gun in 2018. If

48:42

convicted, he could face years in prison. Hunter

48:45

will also be tried in September here in California

48:47

for failing to pay his taxes. In

48:49

response, President Biden issued a statement attacking the

48:51

Trump-appointed judge who's overseeing the trial, as well

48:53

as the Trump-appointed prosecutor who brought the charges

48:56

against Hunter. Again, just kidding. He

48:58

said that he loves his son, he's proud of

49:00

his recovery from substance abuse, and that as

49:03

president, he doesn't and won't comment

49:05

on federal cases. Don't you

49:07

think it's weird that Biden rigged the justice system

49:09

to get Trump, but he couldn't spare his own

49:11

son? It's very bad at rigging. It is. The

49:14

fact that you can have a bunch of Trump

49:16

fans who consume this daily

49:18

meal of content about how

49:20

the Justice Department is rigged

49:22

against Trump, and then

49:24

their dessert is fantasizing about Hunter Biden

49:27

going to jail. It's hard

49:29

to compute. It's not quite cognitive dissonance.

49:31

It's like they want to live in

49:33

reality where all the facts kind of

49:35

warp around Trump-like gravity, and

49:37

they're just happy to hear what they want

49:39

to hear. I don't know,

49:41

maybe the gross political calculus. Who knows? Maybe

49:44

this will convince some people that Joe Biden is

49:46

actually not controlling the DOJ and telling them who

49:48

to indict. But mostly, it's

49:51

just a really sad story about

49:53

addiction and a family that

49:55

has gone through some terrible stuff and now is going to

49:57

have it all dragged out because of this case. president

50:01

elected Democrats, no one is

50:04

talking about this case the way that Republicans have

50:06

talked about the 88 felony

50:08

charges and now 34 convictions

50:10

against Donald Trump because

50:14

Democrats respect the criminal justice system

50:16

and the legal system and the process in

50:18

this country where a jury decides your guilt

50:20

or your innocence. And it's

50:22

just like you don't hear

50:24

Democrats talking about how the system

50:26

is rigged against Bob Menendez, Democratic

50:28

Senator Bob Menendez who's on trial.

50:31

Henry Cuellar was indicted. Another

50:33

Democratic congressman, you don't hear Democrats complaining about Henry

50:35

Cuellar and taking it back. No, we tried to

50:37

primary his ass like five years ago. And

50:41

the president's son, the president's

50:43

own Justice Department through a

50:46

Trump-appointed prosecutor brings charges

50:48

against Hunter and now there's a judge appointed by

50:50

Trump and Joe Biden is

50:52

like, all right, I'm going to let it, it's probably

50:54

killing Joe Biden. Oh, absolutely. This is

50:57

his last remaining son.

51:00

Bo died, lost his daughter in his first

51:02

wife. The tragedy. Yeah,

51:04

and I don't mean to sound crass about it

51:06

by focusing on the politics first. First of all,

51:08

this is a guy who allegedly lied on a

51:11

background check form and he could get real jail

51:13

time because of it. It's kind

51:15

of shocking that that is the penalty. That

51:17

said, we have a lot of stupid laws that give you

51:19

a lot of jail time for things where you shouldn't get

51:21

jail time in this country. But

51:23

yes, I mean, I think it is

51:25

very clear that Hunter's addiction

51:27

has been agonizing for Joe Biden and

51:29

for his family. And the thing he

51:31

fears most is losing another child. And

51:35

I can't imagine what it

51:37

is like having this in the background of your life. That's

51:40

not to excuse or absolve Hunter Biden of

51:43

things he has done or

51:45

making mistakes, but it's just on the

51:47

human level. It's awful. But again,

51:49

and to take

51:52

it back into politics, unfortunately, do

51:54

you want to live in a country where even

51:57

the president's own son can be held accountable

51:59

by... the president's own Justice Department for

52:01

breaking the law. And

52:03

the president says that, lets that go forward and just

52:05

says, I love my son and that's all there is.

52:08

Or a country where this

52:11

guy who's been a convicted felon is like, no,

52:13

because it was me, I want to throw away

52:15

the charges and everything's rigged and you shouldn't trust

52:17

the justice system unless it's in a deep red

52:19

area. Yeah, and then Barron hosts the Hillary Clinton

52:21

military tribunal on the road. Coming

52:23

attractions. That's what our kids are going to talk her

52:26

up. All right, before we go, I do want to

52:28

get your thoughts on the latest Gaza news. So in

52:30

the same speech where Biden talked about Trump's guilty verdict,

52:32

it turns out it was just a Trump guilty verdict

52:34

topper on a speech about Gaza. Yeah,

52:37

who doesn't want to write a Gaza war plan

52:39

speech with an indictment topper, right? Poor

52:42

Biden's speech, right? So the president

52:44

called for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza

52:46

and endorsed a new Israeli proposal to

52:48

bring the hostages home and end the

52:51

war. He also said he urged

52:53

the leadership of Israel to get behind

52:55

this proposal. Let's listen. I love what

52:57

you did today as to where we

52:59

are and what might be possible, but

53:01

I need your help. Everyone

53:04

who wants peace now must

53:06

raise their voices and

53:09

let the leaders know they

53:11

should take this deal, work

53:14

to make it real, make it lasting and

53:17

forge a better future out of the tragic

53:19

terror attack and war. It's

53:22

time to begin this new stage.

53:25

For the hostages to come home, for

53:28

Israel to be secure, for the

53:30

suffering to stop, it's time

53:32

for this war to end, for

53:35

the day after to begin.

53:38

Why do you think Biden chose

53:40

to endorse this proposal and make it

53:43

public for the first time the

53:45

day after Donald Trump was found guilty?

53:49

On the timing, I know the speech has

53:51

been in the works for a while. I

53:53

talked to some folks at the White House.

53:55

I think the proposal went over to Hamas

53:57

the night before he gave the speech. Maybe

54:00

some of the thinking was, look, this is now

54:02

in the wild. Maybe we should just get ahead

54:04

and frame it. I do think the broader goal

54:06

of making this proposal

54:08

public is to put pressure on Hamas

54:10

and the Israeli government to accept it,

54:12

and then try to rally international support

54:14

from other countries behind getting this deal

54:16

done so that everybody's making calls to

54:18

the Egyptians, the Qataris, whoever they can

54:20

figure out to talk to to try

54:23

to say accept it. Now, will

54:25

that work? It's hard to say at this point.

54:27

Now, you said putting pressure

54:29

on the Israeli government. It's the

54:31

Israeli government's proposal, but it

54:34

seems like they didn't want to

54:36

make it public just yet because

54:38

Netanyahu, does he want some wiggle

54:40

room to potentially not support this

54:42

proposal because some of the right

54:44

wing, the even further right wing

54:46

characters in his own government don't

54:48

accept the proposal? He is a

54:51

duplicitous individual, and I rarely believe

54:53

anything he says. I think

54:55

the broader political challenges

54:57

are one, Hamas has to

54:59

accept it. They're a terrorist organization. They

55:02

don't want Israel to exist. They clearly

55:04

launched the October 7th attacks, knowing that

55:06

there would be a massive military response

55:08

and retaliation. Their logic

55:10

is hard to predict, especially since the decision

55:13

makers are not the political leaders who are

55:15

living in foreign countries like

55:17

Qatar. They're like guys in tunnels in Gaza.

55:20

On the Israeli side, you have a

55:22

bunch of super right wing ministers and

55:24

politicians and political parties who

55:27

want Israel to stay in Gaza permanently and

55:29

occupy it. Some of them want to

55:31

rebuild settlements that were taken out of Gaza in the

55:33

2000s. Netanyahu has

55:35

built a coalition that includes some

55:37

of these characters, some of the

55:39

most odious people in Israeli

55:42

political life, like Itamar Ben Gavir and

55:44

Smotrits, the finance minister. He's

55:47

facing a constant threat from those guys to

55:49

pull out of the coalition, which topples the

55:51

government, which means he's no longer in power.

55:55

It's like clearly the

55:58

Israeli war cabinet. the more

56:00

sort of serious people have agreed to this deal

56:02

and they put it forward to see if Hamas

56:05

would agree to it. But I think Netanyahu

56:07

doesn't want to concede any

56:09

of that publicly before

56:12

everything is done, right? Because

56:14

they want to say, no, they just want to stick to

56:16

these broader principles of total victory over Hamas, which is not

56:19

an achievable goal. And it seems like Biden

56:21

then, by making this public and

56:23

giving the speech, also kind of wanted to

56:25

box BBN a little bit. Yeah, I think

56:27

Biden wants to box BBN and see if

56:29

he can put pressure on him. I also think, look,

56:32

their team has been working constantly for months

56:34

to try to broker a ceasefire agreement, both

56:36

short term and longer term, and also this

56:39

Saudi-Israeli normalization deal that they think could lead

56:41

to a Palestinian state, ultimately. So there's all

56:43

this work happening behind the scenes, but those

56:45

efforts aren't always public and obviously none of

56:48

it has been successful. So I think part

56:50

of it is like, let's just lay out

56:52

what we believe. Let's put forward what we're

56:54

working on. Let's see if that can help

56:57

us get it done and accomplish this goal

56:59

and at least make this private diplomatic

57:01

effort that we're doing public. How

57:04

hopeful are the various parties and

57:06

factions that this deal could actually happen?

57:08

I just, I don't know. I mean,

57:10

it's so hard. You

57:13

have to guess what Hamas will do. But

57:17

I don't know. At some point, this war has to

57:19

end. Hopefully it's sooner than later.

57:22

And I don't know. I

57:25

saw a bunch of other governments put out

57:27

statements supporting the deal and then I think

57:29

the Biden administration is now trying

57:32

to get a UN resolution going that's based on

57:34

the deal as well. So hopefully the pressure continues.

57:36

Yeah, it's a full-court press. You do sort of

57:38

worry about, and I guess Hamas initially reacted like,

57:40

oh, we're looking at the proposal favorably, but who

57:43

the fuck knows? Well, the problem is a lot

57:45

of the initial reactions are from all these political

57:47

leaders like living abroad, but then

57:49

the folks who will actually decide are in Gaza.

57:52

It takes days to get to them. So in

57:54

related news, B.B. has accepted an invitation

57:56

from congressional leaders, Republicans and Democrats to

57:59

address a joint session of Congress.

58:01

We don't know when yet. There was some reporting

58:03

that was June 13th. Doesn't seem like that's the

58:06

date now, but around there. Some Democrats are saying

58:08

they'll skip the speech and criticize the invitation, including

58:10

Bernie Sanders who called Netanyahu a war criminal. Why

58:13

do you think Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries

58:15

went along with this one? I am just

58:19

beyond frustrated and confused by this.

58:22

Wild. Okay. I'm going

58:24

to float some scenarios. You tell me what you

58:26

make of them. The most charitable scenario. You

58:28

have Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries who fundamentally

58:30

think Israel is one of

58:32

our closest allies. They're in what they feel

58:35

like is this existential fight. You

58:37

invite the prime minister from Israel

58:39

to come address Congress. It sucks that it's

58:41

BBN at Yahoo, but this is not about

58:44

individuals. This is about two countries. That's the

58:46

most charitable explanation I can think of. It's

58:49

just you don't have to.

58:51

That's a great rejoinder, John. It's

58:54

not like it's a pre-planned thing that

58:56

you are now taking away. It's

58:59

like it's a special thing to invite a foreign

59:01

leader to come to the US. It doesn't help

59:03

them win the war. Right. It's not like anyone

59:05

saying Chuck Schumer should go out there,

59:08

which he already did, and denounce

59:11

Netanyahu. He called on him to step

59:13

down. Would you invite the crazy right-wing racist

59:21

who's corrupt in your

59:23

own country to address Congress? Victor Orban? No.

59:26

Okay. Less charitable version. That could be, as

59:28

you just mentioned, Schumer gave this speech several

59:30

weeks back where he basically said Netanyahu should

59:32

go, should no longer be a prime minister.

59:35

You could imagine he got a bunch of blowback

59:37

from that. You could imagine the Democratic Party generally

59:40

is worried about losing support from

59:42

Jewish voters because of criticism from

59:44

Democrats of Israel's conduct in this

59:46

war. They decide, okay, let's

59:48

join on this invite with

59:50

Mitch McConnell and Speaker Johnson, inviting

59:53

Netanyahu to come address Congress so we

59:55

don't give them a political issue. I

59:57

don't know. Maybe that's like ... I'm

1:00:00

making this up, but that could be another rationale. It's

1:00:03

also like, we're not the UK parliament

1:00:05

here. We don't have like question time where you

1:00:07

can go back and forth with Netanyahu. Like you're

1:00:09

just giving him this stage to say

1:00:11

whatever he wants to say. It's not like Netanyahu

1:00:13

is coming to the US and Schumer

1:00:15

and Jeffree were like, yeah, we'll meet with Netanyahu. I'd be

1:00:18

like, yeah, of course. Then you have an exchange, you go

1:00:20

back and forth with him, you debate him, I think

1:00:22

like protesting that meeting or saying you're not gonna take the

1:00:24

meeting is like- You use that meeting to pressure him. Right,

1:00:26

that seems sort of silly. But a speech

1:00:28

to Congress is just that. It's a speech to Congress. You

1:00:31

don't get to talk back. You just get to sit there

1:00:33

and listen and it's gonna get broadcast everywhere.

1:00:35

Yeah, I personally think this is

1:00:37

just a massive error and like

1:00:39

I'm offended and shocked by it.

1:00:41

It is totally unforced. Netanyahu,

1:00:44

when he gave a

1:00:46

joint session speech in 2015, he used it

1:00:48

to attack President Obama over the Iran nuclear deal,

1:00:50

which by the way, Trump later pulled out of,

1:00:53

which was one of the biggest diplomatic self-owns in

1:00:55

recent history. Netanyahu clearly wants Trump

1:00:57

to be president because Trump gave him

1:00:59

everything he wanted the first time around

1:01:02

diplomatically. Netanyahu could

1:01:04

use this as a political lifeline back home

1:01:07

to show, hey, I'm still, you might hate me.

1:01:10

I have taken no responsibility for October 7th.

1:01:13

I won't own any of the mistakes that were made that

1:01:15

day, but I still got juiced with Washington. You

1:01:17

could see him making that argument. But even before October

1:01:19

7th, this is the man

1:01:21

who was trying to shred Israel's

1:01:23

judicial system to help himself

1:01:25

evade accountability for his brazen corruption. Like he's

1:01:28

a bad guy. He's a bad leader. This

1:01:30

is a terrible decision. And I'm sure that's

1:01:32

it. Well, you know, Israel's an ally. Like,

1:01:35

would you have MBS come address a

1:01:37

joint session after he had an expression? I

1:01:39

know we're doing the normalization deal. But that

1:01:41

is a different, that is a totally different

1:01:43

thing. I would not go. If

1:01:46

I was a different, I would absolutely not go

1:01:48

to the beach. Bernie Sanders is absolutely right. I

1:01:50

would not go listen to this man. We talk

1:01:52

about like things, things to protest that are effective

1:01:54

and not. Like I, if I was a Democratic

1:01:56

member of Congress, if I was, I would protest

1:01:58

Bibi Netanyahu giving the speech. For sure. And one

1:02:00

other thing that's just to know is like, progressives

1:02:03

in Israel are furious about this decision.

1:02:05

They feel like they were hung out

1:02:07

to dry. And you've got Netanyahu coming

1:02:09

to Congress, but he

1:02:11

hasn't found the time to meet with

1:02:13

all these families of hostages and communities

1:02:16

that were affected by the October

1:02:18

7th attacks. I mean, this is a guy

1:02:20

who pitched himself as Mr. Security. He was

1:02:22

a bad guy. He was tough, but he

1:02:24

could keep you safe. And this terrorist attack

1:02:26

happened on his watch, and he won't take

1:02:29

any accountability for it. And

1:02:31

to have him come and spin for 30

1:02:33

minutes in front of the US Congress, it's

1:02:35

just a terrible decision. On the other hand,

1:02:37

it is entirely consistent with Republicans

1:02:40

now elevating criminals,

1:02:42

corrupt politicians, and

1:02:45

right-wing autocrats here at home and all

1:02:47

over the world. That's true. That's

1:02:49

the world they want to live in right now. Cheers to

1:02:51

that. Cheers to bringing

1:02:53

kids into this world. Netanyahu, Trump,

1:02:55

Orban, that's what gets the Republican

1:02:57

Party going these days. Perfect.

1:03:00

Anyway, on that note, it's good to have you back, buddy.

1:03:03

Hey, great to be back. Before we go, some

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