0:03

In

0:06

DC, on January sixth. In fact,

0:08

he organized a bus trip to go down there. He's

0:10

been asked to hand over documents and information

0:13

about efforts to

0:13

Undue the certification of the twenty twenty election

0:16

Pennsylvania, which he called compromised

0:18

and corrupt. Geoprene, it will

0:20

seize the power that we had given to us by

0:22

the constitution and as well by you,

0:25

providence I pray for the leaders in the

0:27

federal government God on the sixth of January

0:29

that they'll rise up with boldness. You'll bless

0:31

these letters. Meet Doug Mastriano.

0:34

The

0:34

Republican nominee for governor in Pennsylvania,

0:37

the birthplace of American democracy. Mastriano

0:41

is a state senator who tried to help Donald

0:43

Trump overturned the results of the last election,

0:46

and he was at the US capital on January

0:48

sixth. As governor,

0:50

he'd have a lot of power over Pennsylvania's elections.

0:53

including what happens to the swing state's twenty

0:56

electoral votes. Electoral votes

0:58

that could easily determine the next president.

1:01

I'm Doug Mastriano, and I get to

1:03

appoint the secretary of state who's delegated

1:06

from me the power to make the corrections

1:08

to elections, the voting

1:10

laws, and and everything and we're gonna

1:12

clean it up. Well, I might even have to reset

1:14

voter registration and start all over again across

1:16

the state. There's stroke of a pen here. I can decertify

1:19

every single machine in the state.

1:21

doesn't

1:21

seem great. Also,

1:23

Mastriano has ties to extremist Christian

1:26

nationalist groups, opposed his same

1:28

sex marriage, and says he'd sign a

1:30

law to ban abortion with no exceptions.

1:32

issue in

1:33

a mother's womb. You know, my body, my

1:35

choice is ridiculous nonsense here.

1:37

if you think

1:38

about But wait, there's more. In

1:40

twenty fourteen, Mastriano posed for

1:42

a faculty photo at the Army War College

1:44

where he taught for a few years. For

1:46

some weird reason, everyone in the picture was

1:48

given choice to dress up as a historical figure.

1:51

Guess it was the only faculty member to

1:53

choose Confederate soldier. That's

1:57

right, Doug Mastriano.

1:59

The state

1:59

senator who represents,

2:02

Gettysburg.

2:04

So yeah, that's the guy running

2:06

for governor of Pennsylvania. And even

2:08

though the polls currently show him down by a few

2:10

points, he could absolutely win.

2:14

In twenty twenty, Joe Biden won Pennsylvania

2:16

by a little more than eighty thousand votes.

2:18

Even though he turned out more democratic

2:20

voters, than any presidential candidate

2:22

in history. That's

2:25

because Trump's megabase broke turnout records

2:27

too. not sure if you've noticed,

2:29

but they still seem pretty fired up. Hello,

2:32

Pennsylvania. Hello.

2:35

I'm thrilled to be back in this incredible

2:38

commonwealth

2:39

with the thousands of proud

2:42

So once again, Pennsylvania will be one

2:45

of the country's biggest battlegrounds in this election.

2:47

The campaign between masteriano and Democratic

2:50

attorney general Josh Shapiro is

2:52

one of the most consequential races in the

2:54

country. Meanwhile, control

2:56

of the senate could come down to the contest between

2:58

Republican nominee, Memmott Oz, a

3:01

Quack TV doctor from New Jersey, and

3:03

Democratic nominee John Federman. Pennsylvania's

3:06

six foot eight Lieutenant Governor A

3:08

hoodie wearing, goatee sporting progressive

3:10

who was described in the Atlantic as hacked

3:13

together from spare parts in an oil

3:15

street, Pittsburgh, Chopper Garage.

3:17

SO FAR IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING FOR HIM. Reporter:

3:19

HE HAS BEEN LEADING IN THE MOST RECENT

3:22

POLLS AND SOME OF THEM BY QUITE A BIT.

3:25

The stakes in Pennsylvania and for democracy

3:28

are huge. The question

3:30

is, do enough people know that?

3:32

are enough people paying attention. Can

3:34

John Josh Shapiro, and other Democratic

3:36

candidates motivate enough of the voters who came

3:38

out to defeat Trump in twenty twenty? especially

3:42

when a lot of those voters are feeling disconnected from

3:44

politics and disappointed with the direction

3:46

of the country. Our organization started

3:48

because we are working class

3:51

people and we come out of real And

3:53

we saw that nobody in Western Pennsylvania

3:55

from the Democratic Party to the Republican

3:57

Party to whatever political

3:59

party you're coming from, right,

4:02

was actually talking to people in a

4:04

day to day way about what their

4:06

life was like. That's

4:07

Alex Wallach Hansen, the field director

4:09

for Pennsylvania United, a group of nonprofit

4:11

organizations who helped flip Pennsylvania to

4:14

Biden in twenty twenty. Elections

4:16

are a choice on

4:18

one Tuesday in November where you gotta

4:20

wake up and you go pick between two people.

4:23

Right? Or you picked a knot. But the vast

4:25

majority of people in our community are

4:27

not waking up with a pre formed

4:29

and pre figured analysis of

4:31

politics and connecting into their lives and how they

4:33

see the world because they're not in organizations. They're

4:36

not connected to the political establishment. They're

4:38

not connected. to any way

4:40

where they touch power and see it show

4:42

up in their lives.

4:46

So

4:46

when political establishment people,

4:48

the media, when they tell

4:50

the story of oh, voters in Pennsylvania

4:53

have

4:53

been persuaded by the

4:55

Republican Party message or have been persuaded

4:58

by the, you know, the politics of fear and

5:00

hate and division. That may be

5:02

true for some people, but the vast majority of

5:04

people who are voting are just showing up and

5:06

picking between two people on that given

5:08

day. And there's so much complexity that

5:10

goes into that. I

5:12

went to Pitt's burg earlier this summer to talk to some of

5:15

the voters that Wallach was talking about.

5:17

There are people who aren't that connected to politics

5:19

and aren't following the news that closely. but

5:21

people who still usually show up on election

5:23

day to pick between two candidates. They're

5:26

the kind of people that political scientist, Diana

5:28

Kruppnikoff, was telling us about in the first episode.

5:30

In order

5:31

to understand the divide between

5:33

the parties, Democrats, and Republicans,

5:36

we have to understand this divide

5:38

between those who pay a tremendous amount

5:40

of attention really focus on politics,

5:42

and those who pay much less of

5:44

attention politically. In

5:46

this focus group, I spoke with nine disengaged

5:48

Democrats. All were from the Pittsburgh area.

5:51

None were daily news consumers. And while

5:53

all of them were leaning towards voting in the midterms,

5:55

only three said they'll definitely cast

5:57

a ballot. All of them voted for Biden

5:59

in twenty twenty, but two of them voted for

6:01

Trump in twenty sixteen. For

6:03

context, I talked to these voters a few

6:05

days before the start of the January sixth hearings.

6:07

We spoke about the hearings, democracy,

6:09

abortion, the economy, inflation, guns,

6:12

and of course, politics, including

6:14

Pennsylvania's big mid term races. A

6:17

few weeks later, I sat down with a group of experts

6:19

in Pennsylvania politics to help break

6:21

down what the voters said. So

6:24

I'm Malcolm Kanata. I'm a state representative

6:26

here in Pennsylvania. And just

6:28

not too long ago, I finished

6:30

my bid for the US Senate and the Democratic

6:33

primary was the first openly LGBTQ

6:35

person of color to run for US Senate in American

6:37

history. My

6:38

name is Rebecca Katz. I am the founder

6:40

of new deal strategies and a

6:42

chief adviser to senate candidate,

6:44

John Fitterman. Hi,

6:46

Spiel. My name is Dan Wagner. I'm the chief

6:48

executive officer of CIVUS Analytics.

6:50

We're a multipurpose data science technology

6:53

an analytics firm, and we do a lot

6:55

of work supporting political campaigns, advocacy

6:57

groups, etcetera, with their

6:59

analytics challenges. Before this, I

7:01

was the chief analytics officer for the two

7:03

thousand twelve Obama campaign, and that's it.

7:06

After

7:06

the break, we hear from Malcolm, Rebecca,

7:09

Dan, and nine Pennsylvania voters.

7:23

Becca,

7:23

I can't believe this is our first time meeting with

7:25

all these guys. We didn't even have our

7:27

own coffee a moment. They're doing

7:29

it with the pod safe. They

7:33

brought the whole crew together. I don't think I've seen

7:35

you in, like, fifteen years. mean, maybe more,

7:37

but I don't wanna say how old we are, so I'm gonna

7:39

stop it.

7:39

I literally just had this conversation with Tommy in

7:41

the office. I

7:42

went to Pittsburgh to talk with voters who Democrats

7:44

absolutely need if we want to win in November.

7:47

People who cast their ballot for Joe Biden in

7:49

twenty twenty, but aren't totally sure what they'll

7:51

do in the twenty twenty two midterms.

7:53

As you'll hear, they feel pretty down about politics

7:55

in the state of the country, and they're not following

7:57

the news as closely as you probably are.

7:59

afterwards, I got together with Dan, Malcolm,

8:02

and Rebecca to talk about what we heard.

8:03

Thank

8:04

you all for doing this. Dan, I

8:06

will go out on a limb and say that

8:08

most wilderness listeners are

8:10

very politically engaged voters who follow

8:12

political news quite closely. How do you think

8:14

they compare with the broader electorate? they

8:16

look nothing like them. I mean, part of

8:19

our job, unfortunately, is to be analytical and

8:21

part of it is a stereotype. Mhmm. The

8:23

average Pod Save America listener is

8:25

probably late thirties,

8:28

probably

8:28

eighty percent or likely

8:30

white, probably fifty fifty male female

8:32

is probably

8:33

concentrated fifty

8:35

percent plus in urban areas

8:37

isn't probably entirely college educated

8:39

filling the gaps. They

8:41

probably share a similar cultural

8:43

standard same standard of living

8:45

standard, same feelings of

8:47

anxiety about recent policy, etcetera.

8:50

And the average non Pod

8:52

Save America person probably has

8:54

not gone to college or has gone to part

8:56

of college and is living through debt right

8:58

now. They consume their

9:00

news through some combination of cable

9:02

news, but more likely through

9:04

Facebook. They are looking at the political

9:06

process right now through deep anxiety

9:08

because they're going through his historical

9:11

collapse in their standard of living as a

9:13

result of inflation and rising home prices.

9:15

And they are thinking about how

9:17

their families are going to get by

9:19

and politics as last not

9:21

first.

9:22

Yeah. I think that's about right. This guy's

9:24

good. It was

9:26

good. You pretty much nailed our audience.

9:28

Malcolm, you just ran in a statewide campaign in

9:31

Pennsylvania. How

9:33

important is it to reach voters who aren't

9:35

frequent Twitter users or cable

9:37

news viewers? in your opinion. What was

9:39

that like? Our

9:41

our challenge was that there were

9:43

a lot of voters who did

9:45

not know who we were in

9:47

a huge state

9:49

like Pennsylvania, if you

9:51

are not able to

9:53

engage folks who fall into those buckets

9:55

with Dan's just so accurately described

9:57

where politics is last,

9:59

not

9:59

first. And that's the type of family I

10:02

come from. you

10:03

know, I live six different places by the time I graduated

10:05

high school. My mom worked

10:07

all of the time. And so, you

10:09

know, she was a good democrat, but she was,

10:11

like, not paying attention

10:13

to all the twists and turns of

10:16

politics except for the real

10:18

quality of life concerns that were

10:20

front and center, you know, the levels

10:22

of gun violence in our communities.

10:24

And frankly, if you, you know, no

10:26

folks from North Philly, violence

10:28

was a crisis before it became

10:30

something that national folks wanted to

10:32

cover. We're dealing with mass shootings

10:34

multiple times in the year. I

10:36

think we benefited from

10:38

me being able to just talk honestly and

10:40

openly about my experience in

10:42

some cases to the chagrin of

10:44

my staff. I'm not like a fucking talking points person.

10:47

I just kinda say what I think, and it'll

10:49

work or not work. And what I

10:51

think is that we are

10:53

not delivering on a government that actually

10:55

works for those working families. You

10:57

know, all they

10:58

got is me. And so that's why I have a

11:00

big mouth about the needs of working people.

11:03

Rebecca,

11:03

how important is it to reach voters

11:05

who aren't frequent Twitter

11:07

users or cable news viewers? How does

11:09

that factor into your campaign strategy?

11:11

It's very important. You know, we always

11:14

say campaigns are not won or lost

11:16

on Twitter. You have to actually go out and

11:18

talk to the people. they consume news

11:20

differently and you actually have to talk about

11:22

things that they care about and you have to make

11:24

them believe that you

11:25

will do something for them.

11:27

now, the biggest problem we have is no one no

11:29

one thinks anyone's gonna do anything for

11:31

them. Alright. Let's

11:32

get to the first clip. I asked voters how

11:35

they feel politics, media, and the way things are going in

11:37

America. Here's some of what they said.

11:39

Scale

11:39

one's ten. How important

11:41

are politics in your life?

11:44

I

11:44

wanna say zero, but I prefer I'm gonna

11:47

say two. Okay. That's alright. I mean,

11:49

266I

11:51

just I can't watch the news.

11:53

I I stay out of it and I have to

11:55

just not have it as an influence of my

11:57

life. It's just it very important to

11:59

me

11:59

since this whole pandemic

12:02

started, my whole thing was to stay in

12:04

your lane. Be the best you you can be.

12:06

You're not gonna fix this political shit

12:08

show. A husband and I,

12:10

we don't ever watch the news anymore

12:12

because it's a negative. A lot of it's, you

12:14

know, kinda drunk along the the party

12:16

lines, whether it's a portion of

12:18

the gun. COVID. I

12:20

just feel like everything's kinda

12:22

split these days. You're you're afraid

12:24

to talk up to your neighbors, not

12:26

knowing, like, what side effects are

12:28

on? Is anyone else

12:30

afraid to talk politics with

12:32

people that, you know, and your neighbor's friends

12:34

and family? You know, I would agree with that. He seems

12:36

like a lot of people have pretty hard stances,

12:38

but she'd never know. I feel like it's

12:40

uncomfortable now no matter what way

12:42

you think. used to be, I think, a lot

12:44

easier to talk about stuff like that.

12:46

I always just say that politics

12:48

provides people, so that's why with

12:50

family and stuff like that, I

12:52

don't even get into

12:53

it because, you know, there are

12:55

certain people, man. You would just give

12:57

two words and just

12:59

take off one other

13:02

especially anchoring that. It's

13:04

exhausting. I tend to

13:05

go down the middle a lot, and we would think that

13:07

that would make it easier

13:08

to find common ground, but it

13:10

seems more and more that it not one

13:12

hundred percent in agreement with someone. They

13:14

are just completely irate,

13:16

and everybody's always so marked

13:18

up in angry.

13:19

So Knowing that these are

13:22

all registered democrats who voted

13:24

for Joe Biden in twenty twenty, did these

13:26

comments surprise anybody? Nope.

13:28

they're

13:28

not surprising. They're just depressing.

13:31

Right? I mean, I think we

13:33

all know that this is gonna be a tough

13:35

year. Those brewers are confirming it.

13:37

I mean, John, you know better than anybody

13:39

how important it is for voters to have hope

13:41

and to look into the future and they

13:43

don't have trust in government. They don't

13:46

believe anyone's fighting for them.

13:48

It's it's bleak.

13:49

Malcolm, you've been an elected official,

13:51

but you've also been an organizer for for most

13:53

of your life, like what strategies have

13:55

you found helpful in reaching

13:58

disengaged voters like these? I

14:00

always think it's A12 step.

14:02

Right?

14:02

First, we should acknowledge the fact that people

14:04

have every right to be frustrated.

14:06

And listening to that,

14:09

the thing that stuck with me was a woman who said,

14:11

I'm just exhausted. And

14:13

I think people are exhausted in

14:15

terms of, like, just things

14:17

in their daily life that government is

14:19

not helping with. and

14:20

they're exhausted by this

14:23

constant political conversation

14:26

that's about what's the next news

14:28

clip on whatever your

14:30

favorite nighttime talk news

14:32

show is. And so the first thing

14:34

is is to really acknowledge that

14:36

pain then you have to talk to people about the possibilities

14:38

when you have a government that

14:41

is more reflective. When you have

14:43

candidates, who are gonna do something, and

14:45

they're gonna do something because they

14:47

understand what you're going through. They're talking to you

14:49

from a real place. And I always feel

14:51

like voters can feel that. Dan,

14:52

why do you think that most Democratic

14:55

messaging fails to reach

14:57

or move these voters?

14:59

I'll

14:59

answer a little bit backward. But the most interesting

15:02

statistic that came out of the

15:04

twenty twenty election was that when you

15:06

looked at Democrats' vote

15:08

for issues and ballot

15:10

elections relative to support for

15:12

Biden. In many

15:14

cases, you saw support for Democratic

15:16

ballots positions up

15:18

by fifteen percent versus Democratic

15:20

candidates.

15:21

Medicaid, minimum wage,

15:24

credit, rates, on things like payday

15:26

loans in Nebraska, and this happened all over

15:28

the country. Alignment

15:30

in terms of voting behavior with

15:32

Democrats but

15:34

not supporting presidential candidates

15:37

or Democratic candidates. And

15:39

so the question you have to ask yourself is,

15:41

why is it that voters are so

15:43

misaligned between support for an

15:45

issue, which is

15:46

the product, and

15:48

then the candidate which is functionally

15:51

the brand. and I'd probably be interested more in

15:53

hearing Rebecca's feelings about this. But

15:55

in terms of, like, the core diagnosis,

15:57

ten percent of these people probably highly represented

15:59

that room. They're aligned with democratic positions

16:01

but are aligned with Democrats because what has

16:03

become really a broken brand over the last

16:05

twenty years. Yeah,

16:08

Rebecca, what do you think about that? Because

16:10

one thing that struck me and we'll

16:12

listen to some of this in a bit is they'll

16:14

say that they don't like both sides of both sides

16:16

of your stream. But then when you get into the

16:18

issues, they seem a

16:20

little more solidly democratic than you'd think

16:22

from how they describe themselves. Right.

16:24

I mean,

16:24

I think they don't like a lot

16:26

of the leadership in Washington, and

16:28

they don't think those people

16:30

are relatable. It's almost

16:32

like they think everyone in Washington is like a

16:34

a leather meat cake to the masses.

16:36

Democrats should be the party of working

16:38

people, and we cannot connect

16:40

the way that we used to. I think

16:42

it's because, honestly, that a lot of

16:44

the folks have been in Washington, have been

16:47

in Washington for many, many,

16:49

many decade case. And it's like,

16:51

you know, role get overturned and a

16:53

Democratic leader will say, what? You may

16:55

expect that to happen. There's no passion,

16:57

there's no sense of urgency they're

17:00

just watching everything kind

17:02

of fall apart. And

17:04

normal people are watching

17:06

it too. And they're losing their minds and

17:08

like screaming into the void, and we

17:10

have to find candidates who give

17:12

a dent, and who who can show them that

17:14

they give a dent.

17:14

Yeah. So like we

17:17

said, you know, it was clear from this group that even

17:19

though they felt disengaged from politics

17:21

itself, they had very strong feelings about a

17:23

lot of political issues that

17:25

started with the economy and inflation, which was on

17:27

just about everyone's mind. Let's take a

17:29

listen. A lot of food

17:31

items

17:31

seem not only in insurance

17:33

apply, but just You just want

17:35

to weekly go up and up and up and up. You

17:38

have my chicken

17:38

wings anymore. It's like flame and y'all.

17:41

Mhmm. Okay. Yeah.

17:43

I would on two boys has definitely

17:45

impacted us over the past month or so,

17:47

like, grocery store. Yeah. My

17:49

rent is going up

17:51

significantly. So the

17:53

uncertainty of empty

17:55

store shelves

17:55

and gas prices

17:58

to go get the things. So, yeah,

17:59

it's sad for especially those

18:02

who don't have the

18:04

means. And, I mean, I'm being a lot more

18:06

frugal than it was before. That's

18:08

for sure. especially the cost of

18:10

gas. It's very expensive. Now

18:12

it would cost over a hundred dollars to

18:14

fill up my jeep. So going

18:16

up quite a bit. So gas

18:18

prices and inflation have come up in

18:20

every single focus group,

18:22

usually unprompted, usually early

18:24

on in the discussion. heard

18:26

a lot about healthcare, housing, rent, the

18:29

baby formula

18:29

shortage. Malcolm, when you were on

18:31

the

18:31

campaign trail, What

18:34

did you tell voters who were

18:37

annoyed to say the least that these economic

18:39

problems haven't been fixed with

18:41

Democrats in charge of Washington?

18:43

the

18:43

truth, the fact

18:44

that big oil companies are

18:47

breaking in more money than

18:49

they've ever made that all

18:51

these meat processors are

18:53

making so much money. Forget which

18:56

union it was, but they

18:58

tweeted out record profits are

19:00

stolen wages from workers. And I think that's

19:02

exactly right. I do think that people

19:04

they want somebody to blame when there

19:06

was a big problem. And I don't think

19:08

we've done enough to

19:11

tell people the truth about where

19:13

the blame should lie

19:15

in corporate greed that is

19:17

out of control and

19:19

that gets to run unabated. And here's the

19:21

challenge for president Biden. Everybody

19:23

knows president Biden. Everybody doesn't know

19:25

the CEO of ExxonMobil. Right?

19:27

no

19:27

Democrat should be

19:30

out there talking about inflation without

19:32

talking about corporate greed. Right? We

19:34

we have villains out there and people need

19:36

to know who they are. And we need to be

19:38

crystal clear about like it didn't

19:40

have to be this way. These executives are

19:42

making money on the backs of working

19:44

people. and nothing is changing.

19:46

And until we have real messaging

19:48

coming out of DC, people are

19:50

gonna blame Democrats because Democrats are the ones

19:52

who control even though Republicans are the ones making

19:55

things worse. Here's

19:55

my question though. I feel like we get

19:57

to this point

19:59

a

19:59

every cycle. Like, why don't

20:02

Democratic politicians focus enough

20:04

on economic issues? Because even if

20:06

you are someone who just wants

20:08

to win, and you're just looking at the

20:10

polls and you're just listening to

20:12

focus groups and you're listening to your

20:14

advisors, they're gonna tell you that

20:15

economic issues are top priority

20:17

for most voters. And yet,

20:20

we always have this problem where it seems like Democratic

20:22

politicians do not focus enough on economic

20:25

issues. they're not real people. Like, they're not, like,

20:26

they're not. They're so

20:29

programmed and poll tested and they talk

20:31

like robots. Right? I mean,

20:33

Like John Federman, the reason that people

20:35

like him right now is because he's talking like

20:37

a normal person. And that seems to

20:39

be this like crazy, like, head

20:41

exploding thing among folks. Like,

20:44

look that he's at Costco too. You

20:46

know, we have programmed

20:48

so many politicians that you have

20:50

to have this, like, rich donor network and come from

20:52

a law firm and do all these things that they've

20:54

lost touch with regular people.

20:57

That is

20:57

the problem. think if we get more

21:00

candidates out there who understand what

21:02

folks are going through, I think we're gonna win

21:04

more elections. I just hope democracy is

21:06

still here. of you when that

21:08

finally

21:08

happens. I would just underline that. I said this

21:10

every day on the campaign trail. If we wanna

21:12

change the Senate, we have to change the senators. And

21:14

I think that that's true for all of these

21:17

positions, like, what the

21:19

hell are we doing? I mean, our candidate

21:21

should be, like, working mom. It should

21:23

be the show people who we

21:25

are trying to reach because there is

21:27

a fluency there that you

21:29

cannot learn. You have to know that

21:31

stuff and communicate with people Rebecca

21:33

was saying. And just as a, like, a person. I

21:35

was like, well, I don't know why that's so hard. I

21:37

don't know why that's hard. Well, so there's

21:39

definitely the normal person problem that

21:42

Democratic politicians have. I think

21:44

another problem is

21:45

Democratic politicians can sometimes talk about

21:48

economic issues, but those

21:50

issues don't always break through the media filter. The media

21:52

doesn't love to cover

21:54

economic issues, economic debates,

21:56

at least anymore, but

21:58

How should campaigns

21:59

handle that sort

22:00

of media reluctance to

22:03

actually cover economic

22:05

issues? They should make

22:05

it part of their message and hammer it every

22:08

damn day. I mean, this is the problem. Like,

22:10

we don't have a message right now.

22:12

If it's the only thing they were to be

22:14

talking about, that would get covered. Right?

22:17

And The problem is

22:17

that everyone's just trying to do whatever

22:20

Sunday press conference to just get in

22:22

the news and get a hook and be exciting. And

22:24

at the end of the day, you

22:26

gotta connect with people and you gotta make it in

22:28

a way that reporters

22:30

will care about. And it's just about it's

22:32

packaging, honestly.

22:32

Dan, what do you think? There's a

22:34

few problems. One is I'll disagree with the

22:36

premise that Democrats don't talk about

22:39

economic issues. I

22:40

think they do. I think that

22:42

the delivery is poor, routinely

22:45

poor. Second, they are

22:47

often caught in the cultural debate

22:49

promoted by the media. So they'll say, like, I

22:51

believe that minimum wage should go up. Well, what do you

22:53

think about trans people in bathrooms? What do you

22:55

think about whatever? Because that's the thing that's

22:57

gonna raise the ratings of those different

22:59

media channels because there's revenue

23:01

attached to a cultural battle. And

23:03

you have people on both sides

23:05

that will engage in that, and

23:07

they'll raise advertising revenue for their

23:09

different channels. And so, unfortunately, like the media

23:11

capitalist track prevents

23:13

a lot of the solid delivery from Democratic

23:16

candidates because these cultural things, they have

23:18

incentives to run against those. Just

23:19

to interrupt for a second, but Democrats always take the bait though.

23:21

That's the problem. It's not just that -- Only one hundred

23:23

percent. -- cultural issues thrown at us is

23:25

that they they are weak about it and

23:27

they don't, like, address the bully head

23:29

on. But the

23:30

majority of news consumption is not done

23:33

through the news media, it's done

23:35

online. And they've done a very good

23:37

job creating simple

23:40

messages that elevate cultural

23:42

differences between Americans with

23:45

consistent

23:45

overwhelming delivery through their

23:48

parties through their packs, etcetera, that do a really good job

23:50

of reinforcing a brand of

23:52

super out of touch,

23:55

fancy elites that even though they're

23:57

promoting the delivery of their economic argument

24:00

get smoked out by the amount

24:02

of content they're putting on the Internet that

24:04

is really, really effective and how it

24:06

brands that's the democratic party. So

24:09

here's a real world issue.

24:11

that

24:11

sort of comes into play here. Like, one

24:14

issue that's received a lot of coverage in the

24:16

media recently is gun violence,

24:18

unfortunately, because we've had so much

24:20

of it IN twenty twenty two. Reporter: A

24:21

DEADLY

24:22

SHOOTING AT A FOURTH OF JULY PARADE

24:24

IN HYALEN PARK IN THE

24:25

INVESTIGATORS CALLED THE SHOOTER A WHITE SUPREMASIST

24:28

WHO TARGETED BLACK PEOPLE.

24:30

IN THE LAST thirty MINUTES POLICE. Reporter: WHAT IS

24:31

THE DEADLIEST SCHOOL SHOOTING IN STATE HISTORY. THE

24:33

nineteen CHILDREN WHO WERE KILLED THE EVALDI

24:35

COMMUNITY ALSO MOURNING TWO TEACHERS. IT

24:37

ALSO CAME UP IN THIS GROUP

24:40

Here's

24:40

a clip.

24:41

I'm Jewish, and I had friends

24:43

who passed in the tree life massacre.

24:46

Oh. And

24:50

Anytime anything's on a news, just

24:52

as triggers. Just Yeah.

24:55

Yeah. Sorry. do you think

24:56

in general we should

24:58

have more

24:58

gun laws, fewer

25:00

gun laws, or the

25:02

same as we have?

25:04

smarter gun laws. I mean, I believe in

25:07

in people who have the right to bear

25:09

arms. But when you

25:11

got it, the weapon is is made to

25:13

mass kill people. no

25:15

dig into that.

25:16

It's a

25:17

more strict and

25:21

state wide government wide

25:23

ones with, like, more strict background

25:25

checks, waiting periods,

25:27

application fees

25:29

or something. think people should still be able

25:29

to keep their guns or hit them, but it should

25:32

be a lot more complicated. In

25:35

your

25:35

opinion, why do you think we

25:38

don't have new kind

25:39

of laws. When is lobby? They're gonna lobby.

25:42

Mhmm. Yeah. Alright. They're very, very

25:44

powerful. A lot

25:45

of money. been growing for our I

25:47

think it's a voting issue too for people. I

25:49

have a lot of friends

25:50

that are very passionate about no more gun

25:52

laws or or for no change in gun laws.

25:55

And so think it's a platform that they

25:57

would vote on

25:58

for representatives that

25:59

would either refuse or

26:02

or

26:02

block legislation that would increase

26:04

regulations around peace. sale guns. I have

26:07

a lot of friends and family members

26:08

that fall into that category as

26:10

well. But if I ask them directly, do you think

26:12

that there should be universal back home checks? they

26:15

would probably all say yes. So I think

26:17

that it gets logged in with, like, these more

26:19

extreme things and people get afraid then

26:21

that it's gonna kinda tumbled and spiral

26:23

there instead of taking it by piece and really looking at

26:25

what might be effective without actually,

26:27

like, imprinting on people's rights. I don't

26:29

think they should be any

26:32

fifteen, but

26:32

I think it should be a lot more difficult to

26:34

get on it. Dan, how do

26:36

you think this group of disengaged Democratic

26:38

voters matches up to the broader electorate

26:40

on gun control? Hi. Yeah. I

26:42

would say that their opinions match up with

26:44

around sixty percent of American voters. I was

26:46

actually surprised maybe in in

26:49

a good direction. that

26:51

most of these voters in in that

26:53

last guy that was talking about don't

26:55

ban AR-15s that make them tougher. That was the Trump

26:57

voter. We're actually a little bit more

27:00

forward on gun control than I thought there might

27:02

be. The voltage

27:03

you're there, the senate is not. Right?

27:06

Right. The V. R. out front of where

27:08

the politicians are here. Malcolm,

27:10

how

27:10

central should gun violence be

27:12

to Democrat's midterm message? And and how far

27:14

can candidates go in a state like Pennsylvania?

27:16

I think

27:16

the same was true when you're having a

27:19

conversation about quote unquote culture

27:21

wars. I think we have to believe

27:23

in something and we have to fight for you

27:25

know, I remember a conversation you and

27:27

I, John, had a long time ago and it sits with

27:29

me forever when you're talking about

27:31

another voter who said, you know, Trump's a liar,

27:33

but he's the most honest liar. I

27:35

know. I think there is something to

27:37

be said about people

27:40

believing that you believe something. And

27:42

so I think whether it's guns,

27:44

whether it's standing up for trans

27:46

folks, our response to that can't be, well, like,

27:48

let's just not talk about it course, Republicans have

27:50

won on that issue. I

27:52

don't think that they have, but I think that

27:54

we're really, you know, clunky

27:57

in terms of how we engage on

27:59

those issues sometimes. I do think that

28:01

sometimes we are afraid of

28:03

championing ideas and things that are

28:05

a common sense and that beads

28:07

supported by broad majorities of the

28:09

American people. Like, why are we

28:11

afraid? Just to echo those,

28:12

but I think voters are

28:14

dying for Democrats to go on offense. Right? We

28:16

we're just we're so scared. And if you

28:18

give voters a choice, they will pick strong and

28:21

wrong over week and right every

28:23

single day of the week. Right?

28:25

And what we have to do is get is

28:27

have strong and right. Yeah.

28:28

I guess my question is from, like,

28:31

a message prioritization standpoint. Like, you guys have a

28:33

message calendar, and we just talked about how

28:35

important it is to have the candidate talking about

28:37

economic issues, like, every single

28:39

day. And then the

28:41

supreme court overturns Roe v Wade, and then there's

28:43

another mass shooting somewhere. And

28:45

obviously, you don't wanna be afraid of that. You don't wanna shirt

28:47

from that. You wanna say what you believe and you wanna

28:49

be strong about that. But, like, How do

28:51

you navigate an environment

28:53

where all these different issues pop

28:55

up even as you know people keep talking

28:57

about the economy you need to talk about all the time? How do you

28:59

balance that? Listen,

29:00

the Republican candidate for governor

29:02

in Pennsylvania wants to

29:04

go after doctors who

29:06

are helping women get abortions, you know, their states. You know, like

29:08

it is a different kind of landscape

29:12

out there. And I think Democrats

29:14

need to show exactly what

29:16

the public candidates are for and what

29:18

they're for.

29:19

These are economic issues. If you

29:21

were forced to have a child

29:24

that you cannot have right now because of the

29:26

situation in your life or because

29:28

it's gonna put at risk of the life of

29:30

your partner, right, who's just birthing that child

29:32

in the first place. These are economic

29:34

issues. When people in communities like mine, there

29:36

is a shooting and folks are traumatized

29:38

and it's like tough to get to

29:41

work. or you can't get to work your block is

29:43

freaking blocked off from yet

29:45

more police tape. I don't think these things

29:47

are like separate things.

29:49

Dan, what do you think? I think there's a

29:50

few troubling patterns when you see

29:52

it in the data. One

29:55

is that

29:56

communication and process as

29:59

opposed to

29:59

consequences never works. Mhmm.

30:02

And number two is a lot of the language.

30:04

And by language, I mean, the actual words

30:06

that we

30:07

use to talk about things,

30:10

have calcified in people's minds

30:12

so much that they're no longer effective in

30:14

how you talk about them. In

30:16

the case of row, or guns, etcetera,

30:19

a lot of what we found

30:21

is that talking with

30:24

words like supreme court

30:26

or judges or whatever. Either

30:28

people, they ignore it or

30:30

rather in a testing environment has no

30:32

effect. What does have

30:34

an effect? What always

30:36

has an effect is speaking to the

30:39

consequences of a policy

30:41

or the consequences of

30:43

a candidate. So what does that

30:45

mean in the case of Roe?

30:47

What that means in the case of Roe is

30:49

that a woman who is

30:51

sexually assaulted has

30:53

a very real possibility of being

30:55

incarcerated for up to two years in the state

30:57

of South Carolina. But making

30:59

it very real that it's not about go

31:01

to us. It's not about this. It's not about that. What is very real

31:04

is that women are no longer free.

31:06

And freedom is a very

31:08

powerful word in the United States.

31:11

and this is no longer about choice,

31:13

row is about freedom. In the

31:16

case of

31:16

guns, guns are no longer about guns,

31:18

guns are about the safety of our children.

31:21

And unfortunately, a lot

31:22

of Democrats are over the age where they no longer have

31:24

to experience the anxiety of being a parent

31:26

today, which is kind of

31:27

a sad thing. Right? The people

31:29

on this call, like, we we know the anxiety

31:31

of that situation given our

31:34

age.

31:35

The challenge of that session

31:38

is it seems like it's a lot

31:40

of process and they're

31:41

not talking about the consequences on

31:44

what these decisions mean for American

31:47

freedom. using

31:47

that word explicitly and American safety

31:50

and the safety of our children to

31:52

grow up in a society where they are safe and

31:55

free. And

31:57

there's a different sort of words that we should

31:59

start using in a world where a woman can

32:01

be incarcerated for treating her own body.

32:03

and a world where a kid going to Highland

32:05

Park can be murdered in front of their

32:08

parents. Freedom,

32:09

freedom safety,

32:10

safety These

32:11

are words that Carl Roeve would have used in the

32:14

nineteen nineties. These are now words that

32:16

Democrats should be owning because they are

32:18

core to our own culture. and

32:20

they are core to what Americans are

32:22

thinking about every day, especially parents

32:24

who are very, very

32:26

scared. After

32:29

the

32:29

break, a reality check on the impact of

32:31

the January sixth hearings, and our

32:34

panelists dig into what rights are on the

32:36

ballot for Pennsylvania

32:38

this fall.

32:48

Welcome

32:50

back. So we left off from our panel talking

32:52

about what to make a voter's

32:54

fears. And jumping right back in,

32:56

I asked Malcolm Rebekah and Dan to dig into

32:58

what's really at stake for folks in Pennsylvania

33:00

this upcoming midterm. So I think

33:02

we'll definitely have a language issue like

33:05

you mentioned in this next issue. I asked

33:07

which issues don't get enough media

33:09

attention. and people

33:11

said things like the economy and health care and

33:13

education. And then I asked which issues are getting too

33:15

much media attention? And here's what I heard.

33:17

I was

33:18

gonna say, like, old stuff.

33:20

Like, I saw the news tonight when I

33:22

was eating dinner before I came here today,

33:24

talking about the the capitol ryan last year.

33:27

Like, I feel like it's time to move on

33:29

when, like, there's a lot of issues right

33:31

now, like, inflation, gas

33:33

prices, and everything else.

33:34

Like, I wish the politicians would focus on things

33:36

now instead of stuff that happened almost

33:38

two years ago. Andrew

33:41

mentioned the January

33:43

sixth attack on the investigation into

33:45

January sixth. How

33:46

much are all of you paying attention

33:48

to the investigation into the January sixth

33:50

of the tax? No. No. No. Not at all.

33:52

Not at all. Oh, no. She don't occur. So

33:54

did any of you plan to watch

33:56

the prime time period this week?

33:59

if I didn't watch didn't have

33:59

that ever heard of that institution.

34:02

I didn't know they were here recently. Okay.

34:05

I mean, my biggest concern with

34:07

it is more about the,

34:09

like, the background of why not the or why seemingly

34:11

remote people can get caught up in?

34:13

Now, few

34:14

stipulations. This was, of

34:17

course, right before the hearing started. Most of the group said they were concerned

34:19

something like generous this could happen again. And

34:21

just about everyone also later said

34:23

that Trump is at least partially

34:25

to blame. Most people said fully to blame. But

34:28

clearly, it's not the top issue on

34:30

voters minds. So

34:30

my question to all of

34:33

you is How

34:33

do Democrats get voters to

34:36

care about? The

34:37

ongoing existential threat

34:40

to democracy? without talking about it a lot. Dan, what do you

34:42

think? I think it's

34:43

another time when we

34:46

democrats, whoever

34:46

you wanna call it, missed

34:49

vacantly believe that people care about process

34:51

over consequences, hearings,

34:53

that sausage

34:55

making, all that

34:58

stuff, etcetera. The reality is that these people murdered police

35:00

officers. All the matters,

35:02

the matter they murdered cops, you

35:05

don't you don't need like all this other kind of things around

35:07

it. And I don't think January six is

35:09

the point, but you wanna use it

35:11

as an element of the brand

35:14

narrative that you're trying to build.

35:16

And

35:16

we have this incredible moment now because

35:18

we both have a Scottus decision I

35:20

think the exercise that everybody should be doing right now, every

35:23

campaign, party committee,

35:24

whatever, is

35:26

to the to look at the electorate

35:28

and say forty five percent of the electorate

35:31

is Republican,

35:33

sixty percent of Americans

35:36

find this decision deeply unpopular.

35:38

But more importantly, among

35:41

that forty five percent

35:44

of Republicans nearly twenty to twenty five percent of them actually

35:46

disagree with the policy.

35:48

But you really need to fixate

35:51

on this part of the electorate, these

35:53

Republicans, twenty percent of their electorate, is now

35:55

sitting in a position being like, what the

35:58

fuck just happened, dude. This

36:00

is this

36:00

is messed up. And how do we think

36:02

about capturing that twenty percent

36:04

of their population, which when you

36:06

add it up, you're talking about twenty million Americans.

36:09

who are in the Republican camp have always voted

36:12

Republican and now deeply disagree with

36:14

this decision, twenty million

36:16

Americans. This is a huge

36:18

critical mass. And

36:19

exactly digging into who those twenty

36:21

million people are is gonna be the

36:24

difference between whether we win and

36:26

whether we lose. and it's an

36:28

opportunity, but the framing of how we do it is

36:30

really, really important because

36:32

it's

36:32

a lot of folks and they could go either

36:34

way. So

36:35

I thought democracy was a particularly important issue to raise in Pennsylvania because

36:37

of the governor's race where a

36:39

victory by Republican Doug Mastriano would

36:41

put a supporter of Trump's

36:43

attempted coup in charge of one of the most important swing states in

36:46

twenty twenty four. But in this

36:48

group, which had plenty to say about both

36:50

senate candidates that we'll hear in

36:52

a bit, there were only two people who had opinions about

36:54

Mastriano, even though those two people said he

36:56

was one said he was dangerous, one said he

36:58

was radical. and only one person

37:00

had an opinion on Josh

37:02

Shapiro. Though that woman said she loved

37:04

him. Do

37:04

you guys think that Shapiro can

37:07

make

37:08

Mastriano's extremism and

37:10

democracy a central issue in this campaign.

37:12

Should he? I mean,

37:13

I think Shapiro

37:16

will probably going on democracy, but even harder, I would say, on

37:18

abortion. Because that is, I think, where the

37:20

voters are. Because if Doug and

37:22

Mostiano is elected governor,

37:24

abortion is

37:24

done

37:25

in Pennsylvania. There's no exceptions. Howard

37:28

Bauchner:

37:28

I think that

37:30

Mastriano has just a

37:32

terrible record that should hero can

37:34

just kind of poke at and expose him a little bit. Malcolm, what do

37:37

you think? You know,

37:38

I think on the Republican

37:39

side, we have two

37:42

folks who are out of touch, out of

37:44

their damn minds. And so I

37:46

think that those things are gonna really

37:50

matter and I hope that I'm almost calling Governor Shapiro a good

37:52

Forti and slip there. But I but I hope that

37:54

that the team plays

37:56

every day when he said

37:58

that his number one issue, if he were governor,

38:00

Bantoor Rebecca said, and Doug Mystrano said this,

38:02

his number one issue is

38:04

banning all of abortion. I mean, you don't have

38:06

to get creative with this. You don't

38:08

need to do anything. You

38:10

just play that. So I wanna

38:11

get to the subject's near and dear

38:14

to Malcolm and Rebecca's heart, the

38:16

Pennsylvania senate race. Towards the end of the

38:18

session, I asked the group if they were planning to vote

38:20

in the midterms And if they had settled

38:22

on a specific senate candidate,

38:24

here's what they said. For those

38:25

of you who are planning to vote,

38:27

how many of you have made up your mind's vote were

38:29

you voting for? I didn't.

38:32

Okay. I didn't. I voted the primary for

38:34

federal. If you may have your right voted

38:36

number? Yes. Okay. Yes. I've read I've

38:39

I've researched. He might look. strange, but

38:41

I think he has some things that I

38:43

thought might

38:43

be good for the

38:46

number. Maybe

38:48

his he seems down to

38:50

earth more, maybe crazy.

38:52

I don't know. But I

38:54

just thought that he might be

38:56

something new that we need. I don't particularly

38:58

like him, but I respect his impact. Like, he didn't

39:01

go to, like, the

39:02

lieutenant governor's mansion or he turns

39:04

down a lot of that, like, he's

39:06

not impressed by people's money. He's not gonna be bought

39:08

off. Like, I don't like him, but

39:10

I respect that about him. I think they're like,

39:12

that's a nice band. See if he's hands

39:15

up for he believes in. He took a a

39:17

town like Claire that really put a lot of

39:20

work into A hundred percent form because

39:22

he's one of the people when you asked him

39:24

a question, He will

39:26

answer. And if he doesn't know, he's gonna

39:28

search for it. And

39:30

does he

39:31

have some flaws pecky, have

39:33

it, at least he's on his box floss compared to the other ones

39:34

trying to sweep them underneath the carpet. He

39:36

he seems like he's very aggressive of

39:38

what he does in a good way.

39:41

And he's not, like, your typical politician

39:43

than I respect. What do you all

39:45

think about?

39:45

Or political nominee for senator,

39:48

doctor Oz? scared. Yes. You know, scared. He's

39:50

on pencil razors. No.

39:52

No. What's he what's

39:54

he doing

39:56

there? Like, how was

39:58

that even allowed? Like, someone

40:00

who's not from the state? It would run

40:02

for one of our senate seats, which is

40:04

so one and then win.

40:06

That's what it's about. He's prepared. Yeah. Like, what does

40:08

he really care about Pennsylvania? If you

40:10

can't even leave live here,

40:12

then you have no idea.

40:16

And he's

40:16

a little bit of fraud. Fraud. Yeah. He's a doctor.

40:18

Right? He has a show that has a lot of influence

40:20

and he he's been episodes where

40:22

he's pushed alternative medicine that might be

40:24

dangerous for for

40:26

people. So that just shows a compromise

40:28

of integrity whether or not

40:28

he actually believes what he's saying. I

40:31

mean, that's That's it

40:31

when we put some in a a bad word in

40:33

that sense. So

40:35

Rebecca, the only somewhat

40:37

negative comment about Federman was from that

40:39

guy who said he didn't like him but still respected

40:41

him. That happens to be the only person in the

40:43

entire group who said he'd consider voting

40:46

for Trump in twenty twenty four again. It's maybe the best

40:48

focus group review I've heard of any candidate

40:50

in three years of doing the

40:52

wilderness. So As someone working

40:54

with him, my question is, how

40:56

much of the

40:56

appeal do you think is unique

40:59

to your guy? And

41:01

how much can be replicated by other Democratic

41:03

candidates? I mean, you don't wanna

41:05

get

41:05

to a situation

41:08

where, like, hopefully, we win. And then everybody's going around wearing, like,

41:10

diggies and cartons. You know? You're like

41:12

trying to be hit. Like, it works because it's

41:14

not fake.

41:16

Right? Like, he is this is who he is, and

41:18

I think people respect that. What I will say is, yes, John

41:21

will say he doesn't look like a

41:23

typical politician because even

41:26

look like a difficult person. Right? They think

41:28

they know that he understands

41:30

what they're going through. And that that

41:34

personal connection It doesn't have to

41:36

have the look of John Federman for a candidate to connect with a voter. And

41:38

I think we've spent way

41:40

too long with cookie cutter

41:44

candidates that get the whole machine behind them. think

41:46

voters are hungry for somebody different who

41:48

can speak to what they're going through.

41:52

And to the point we're saying earlier, like, it's not just about processes,

41:54

it's about, like, speaking to these

41:56

consequences of people's lives. Malcolm,

41:59

you were in

41:59

against Federman in the primary. Obviously, they

42:02

had just in case just

42:04

to just to catch people up

42:06

Obviously, he had name recognition and and money, but what qualities

42:08

do you think helped him win? And what do

42:10

you think he has to watch

42:12

out for in the general?

42:15

So I

42:15

think to Rebecca's point, it's

42:18

not about somebody being

42:20

John, because John is John. I suspect

42:22

I'm the the old American America that can say that

42:25

he lives directly across the street of

42:27

a of a steel mill. I can my

42:29

family and I live in an

42:32

old car So we're not gonna be able to have a

42:34

candidate who can replicate

42:36

him. We're not gonna have a candidate

42:38

who can be a black

42:40

gay kid from North Philly. You're not gonna be able to

42:42

replicate that exactly. And I

42:44

think that that really

42:46

matters that you can

42:48

have candidates who are themselves. And I think that that is something that that

42:50

John absolutely has. You

42:52

never get candidates like this

42:53

who can get through a

42:56

primary. There must be other candidates like this, but usually there's

42:58

an establishment candidate who Washington likes

43:00

and they think is more electable.

43:04

And that person can just go in and and win the primaries, and

43:06

then that becomes the candidate. Yeah.

43:09

Dan is odds

43:10

the perfect foil for

43:12

Federman? And do you think that there are lessons

43:14

for other Democratic candidates either

43:16

from how Federman campaigns for

43:20

himself or how he campaigns against Oz because I know as

43:22

I'm following this whole thing on on

43:24

Twitter, every time I see Rebecca having a good

43:26

time with Oz and

43:28

the houses I'm like, I I keep

43:30

saying for him like, God, Democrats used to

43:32

run campaigns like this all the time. This is a

43:34

fun campaign. Why why don't Democrats do

43:36

that anymore? That's twenty

43:38

dollars for crude tape, and it's outrageous. And

43:40

we got Joe Biden thing for this. I don't I

43:42

guess, I'll I'll disagree with the premise that

43:45

candidates who are themselves do

43:48

better because doctor Oz, I think has been

43:50

himself, but

43:52

he's just He's just the sociopath.

43:54

Too sure. So by virtue of

43:56

him, showing that he's sociopath, I'm I'm

43:58

not sure that's gonna that's

43:59

gonna help

44:02

him win. But I think, like, from a like a

44:04

campaign tactical point of view, what I

44:06

think they're doing successfully

44:08

is framing a brand of their

44:10

opponent very early on. It's something that we did in

44:12

two thousand twelve, and we

44:14

committed resources around it. And

44:16

so I think a lot of these

44:18

Democratic candidates, the challenge

44:20

with, like, a conventional messaging schedule is,

44:22

okay, I do this and I make my dumb contrast ads

44:24

and I do this. is it takes away

44:26

from the creativity of,

44:28

like, really solid campaigning is

44:30

I need to create

44:32

create a narrative a narrative about

44:34

my opponent to make people believe XYZ

44:37

about them, in this case, that

44:39

he's a rich sociopath. and

44:42

do that very early and often. So you're kind

44:44

of like setting the bio of your

44:46

opponent and that takes a lot

44:48

of creativity It requires a really solid digital team, which a lot of

44:50

people don't have, and it's not entirely

44:52

formulaic. So just watching the race from the

44:54

outside. It seems like it mimics a lot of the

44:56

successful campaigns

44:58

especially the creativity. And and John, I didn't get to

45:00

answer

45:00

your other point about not that they need my advice

45:02

they beat me, but still I'm gonna give my advice

45:05

nevertheless. Yeah. Please. Two

45:08

words. Well,

45:08

three words. Philadelphia and

45:09

black voters.

45:10

And obviously, I'm gonna work

45:13

my tail off to help

45:15

in that regard but I think, you know, the

45:17

more time that John can be in in Philly,

45:20

and I know Rebecca's listening to me, the better.

45:22

Because these are voters who

45:24

are not voting for doctor

45:26

Oz. Let me be very clear. They're not fucking

45:28

vote for doctor Oz. But the question

45:30

is, are they going to stay home

45:32

just because they're frustrated? and I hear that

45:34

frustration every single

45:36

day and cracking that night of getting

45:38

that turnout in Philadelphia, you know,

45:40

as high as we possibly can. That's

45:42

gonna be a big part of making sure John wins,

45:44

Josh wins, and every everybody else wins. So I'm always

45:47

pro having statewide candidates come

45:50

to Philadelphia. On that

45:52

note,

45:52

you've all been very

45:54

generous with your time, Malcolm Kenyada, Rebecca

45:56

Katz, and Wagner. Thank you so much for

45:59

joining the wilderness. Thank you. Good to see you. Good to do.

45:59

Thanks

46:00

so much,

46:02

John. We started this episode

46:04

talking about the threat to democracy from mega

46:06

candidates like

46:08

drug master Riano. It's a threat that all of us who

46:10

follow politics closely understand

46:12

well, since it's rightly received a lot of

46:14

media coverage. We're all

46:16

familiar with the headlines from the January six

46:18

hearings, the investigations into Donald

46:20

Trump, and the assault on voting rights and

46:22

Democratic norms that's coming from right wing courts and

46:24

state legislatures. We

46:26

feel a sense of urgency around these issues

46:28

because we consume news about them every

46:30

day. The voters I

46:32

talked to in Pittsburgh were either too busy to

46:34

follow politics too confused by

46:36

all the details or too disgusted

46:38

by the spectacle. They

46:40

felt a sense of urgency around a set of issues

46:42

that have also received lots

46:44

of coverage. but tend to have more personal and immediate

46:46

impacts. The cost of food and gas and

46:48

rent, mass shootings and

46:50

abortion bans. And

46:52

they don't have much confidence that politicians

46:54

can fix those problems. At least not

46:56

the same kind of politicians that haven't fixed them in

46:58

the past. Which

47:00

helps explain why they

47:02

seem to like John Federman. It's not

47:04

like he's new to politics. The guy's been in

47:06

an elected office since two thousand six, versus

47:09

a mayor, now is lieutenant But he doesn't look like a

47:11

typical politician and he doesn't talk like

47:13

a typical politician. normal

47:16

human being would talk to their friends. He's

47:18

not scared of saying something a little weird or

47:20

off. He generally says what he thinks.

47:23

a quality that even a former Trump

47:25

supporter in our focus group appreciated.

47:27

He's not impressed by people's money.

47:29

He's not gonna be bought off,

47:31

like, I don't like him, but I respect that about him.

47:33

I think they look that's a nice stand. See

47:36

he stands up for what he

47:38

believes in. For the vast

47:39

majority of voters who think that the country is headed in

47:41

the wrong direction, a candidate who doesn't seem

47:43

like a typical politician can

47:46

be appealing. It's a

47:48

sentiment we also heard from the swing voters I spoke to

47:50

in Virginia. I just you know, it

47:52

comes down to why can't we bring

47:54

a better

47:56

candidate forward I think we need new energy, new

47:58

blood. In a normal midterm

47:59

year, you might listen to these voters and think that

48:02

while an outsider like Federman has a

48:04

decent chance, most

48:06

longtime Democratic incumbents don't.

48:08

If people think that Washington is broken, they

48:10

tend to punish the party that's running the place. And

48:12

it's possible that happens in a lot of

48:14

these toss-up prices, especially in the house.

48:17

But it's also possible that twenty

48:19

twenty two is different. And

48:21

that's because the alternative to

48:23

voting for Democratic governance however imperfect it

48:25

may seem, is voting for candidates like Doug Mastriano

48:27

and doctor Oz. Magoloyalists

48:30

who are out of touch Wackos

48:32

at best and dangerous

48:34

threats to democracy at

48:36

worst. The key for Democrats though

48:38

is to make that case to voters in a way

48:40

that connects with the fears and

48:42

anxieties that are on the minds of

48:44

people who don't pay that much attention to

48:46

politics. If Democrats

48:48

want disengaged voters to care about

48:51

saving democracy? They have to campaign like democracy

48:53

is worth saving. A

48:55

true grassroots democracy or

48:57

you listen learn from the people you want to

49:00

represent, or you show that you actually

49:02

give a shit about their problems and are willing

49:04

to fight like hell to

49:06

fix them. When people

49:06

choose not vote, it is because they don't see something to fight

49:08

for and somebody who wants to fight for

49:11

them. And so we can't

49:12

settle for somebody who is gonna do

49:15

the bare minimum. this moment in our country, we have to be

49:17

putting people forward who are fighting for what real people actually

49:20

need. This is Alex from Pennsylvania

49:21

United, the organization we heard from at the

49:24

beginning of

49:26

this episode. The ones who are trying to reach disconnected voters one door

49:28

at a time. That's how we can

49:30

start to rebuild people's faith

49:32

in democracy. And as

49:33

PA united organizer, Lishan McBride, tells

49:36

us, that's how we can

49:37

start to enlist the next generation in the

49:39

fight to save it. I'm

49:41

a

49:41

mother of eight children,

49:44

thirty grandchildren. And

49:46

when I go Canvas, it meant

49:48

the world to have my eighteen

49:51

year old granddaughter. And

49:53

her saying, y'all go, okay. Now

49:55

what do I do? Now what you

49:57

know, and I'm showing her on

49:58

her phone. So I

49:59

have now just put something in

50:02

her that

50:03

I know I'm gonna see

50:05

her fight again. for

50:06

something that's so important to her. And I'm

50:08

not scared of

50:09

a conversation that might not

50:11

be so positive. That's okay

50:14

because that's real.

50:16

We are real people talking

50:18

to real

50:18

people on the other side

50:21

of the door. So expect anything.

50:24

Don't settle

50:25

for nothing and

50:27

just keep knocking. Keep

50:30

talking and keep rocking.

50:33

Keep knocking.

50:34

Keep talking and

50:36

keep rocking. I like it. And

50:40

speaking of getting future generations

50:42

involved, next week we're headed to Orange County,

50:44

California. A former Republican

50:46

stronghold where I'll talk to a group of twenty

50:48

somethings who helped turn the area blue

50:50

by casting their very first ballot for Joe Biden. The

50:52

question is, will they

50:53

show up

50:56

again? How many of

50:58

you plan on voting in the midterm elections this November? What is that?

51:02

Yeah.

51:04

so we got some work to do. See

51:06

you next time on the

51:10

wilderness.

51:22

The Wilderness

51:26

is an original podcast from crooked media.

51:30

Season three is produced by Dust Light Productions. I'm

51:32

your host, John

51:33

Favreau. From crooked media, our

51:34

executive producers are Sarah Geismar,

51:37

Katie Long, and Me. Special

51:39

thanks to Alison falsetto and Andy Taft for production support, and

51:41

to Mike Koleshek from Benadson Strategy

51:43

Group who helped us with

51:45

our focus groups. From

51:47

Dust Light, our executive producer is Michelle

51:50

Youssef. R when Nick's is our executive

51:52

editor. Stephanie Cohn is the

51:54

senior producer. Tamika Adams is

51:56

the producer and Francesca Diaz is the

51:58

assistant producer. This

51:59

episode was sound designed by Tamika

52:02

Adams. Valentino Rivera is our

52:04

senior engineer. Martin Fowler is the composer. Thanks to our

52:06

development and operations coordinator at

52:08

Dusley, Rachel Garcia, and to Chrissy Mehren

52:10

for archival

52:12

legal review. If

52:14

you wanna learn more about how you can take action

52:16

in the fight for our democracy, head over

52:18

to Vote Save America dot com slash

52:25

midterms.