Episode Transcript
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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for May 17 2024, episode 180 serial
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churn. Hello, everybody. It's Friday once again, time for the
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official, the one and only board meaning of podcasting. 10.0.
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Everybody, everything it all gets discussed right here.
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That's right. We don't talk behind your back. We are the
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only boardroom that doesn't have a booth at a podcast conference.
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If you want to know what's happened in podcasting, it's all
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here. I'm Adam curry in the heart of the Texas Hill Country
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and in Alabama, the man who brings his programmatic Ceman to
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your vast say a lot of my friend on the other end, the one and
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only Mr. De Jones.
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Dave Jones: says I have to tell you to rip it twice. Does that
0:45
mean I rip you a new one? Do Adam Curry: you really mean we're in quite the mood today,
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Dave? Oh, yeah, we're in a good mood. So we started off before
0:57
we started the show, which by the way, we're live and lit
0:59
every single Friday afternoon. You can listen to us live and a
1:02
modern podcast app. podcast apps.com. Anyway, we're like I
1:10
got a rant. I gotta read I got a rant. But I got something to say
1:12
I ran out because Dave was late. He was late. And before we even
1:16
start that I want to say there will be no board meeting next
1:18
week. I will not be in town and will not be available to record.
1:22
Warren I'm so sorry. Yes, I'm going to Nashville.
1:26
Dave Jones: Oh, well that's not bad. For the Adam Curry: for the K love the K love awards.
1:32
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, this is yes. This is the is the big the
1:36
big God the God music extravaganza.
1:41
Adam Curry: Big God music extravaganza again Alright, so
1:48
what why were you late? What's your Ran brother? What's going
1:50
on? What's happening? How can I help? Dave Jones: I've spoken many times in the past about the I'm
1:58
sorry, I'm trying to put down my salami and cheese.
2:03
Adam Curry: I wondered what I smelled. But now I know. Cheese
2:07
Dave Jones: is my bread breath. Yeah, so I've spoken many times
2:12
in the past about the about my my hatred of USB C docking
2:18
stations. Adam Curry: Yeah, so yes, I can. Yes. And I think I've said don't
2:23
be a hater. But you have not taken this advice clearly.
2:28
Dave Jones: Okay, so I want to
2:31
Adam Curry: only read up the hatred is I want to re up the
2:33
hatred now. Dave Jones: Yes. So this is this is a after a couple of hours of
2:44
of troubleshooting. The USBC dock. We come up with this
2:48
lovely support bulletin from Lenovo. Oh,
2:52
Adam Curry: and this was a at the day job. This was a real
2:54
support ticket. uptaking Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And this, these these things are
2:59
just, they're just a nightmare. Everybody you talk to these
3:04
things have a limited lifespan. They're crap. Ever since they
3:08
went from old docking stations you had they had a custom
3:11
connector every every, every big one. Really. It was like it was
3:16
like Adam Curry: 70 penises because they knew scuzzy. scuzzy
3:18
connector scuzzy. Dave Jones: Yeah. Frozen guard, you know, frozen garden hose
3:23
type, right? Yes. Goes all proprietary. Everybody had their
3:26
own dealio Yeah, but you know what they were working every
3:30
single time worked. Yeah, every time USBC I have a document that
3:37
is like 20 pages. That shows how all of the routing internally
3:45
happens. Because what you see on the end of like when you plug in
3:50
a USB C docking station, what you see on the on the end is
3:55
just a USBC connector, right? But there is so much going on
4:01
inside of that thing. Adam Curry: And ask the question, is this not
4:05
essentially like a USB dongle that has no expansion ports?
4:13
Isn't that kind of what this is? This
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Dave Jones: is no that's it and this is the problem. USB C
4:22
docking stations modern USB C docking stations are since our
4:25
Thunderbolt. Oh, they are thunder either Thunderbolt three
4:28
or Thunderbolt four Oh, system boards. So these docking
4:34
stations are a synth are like they have their firmware in
4:38
them. They run they run software they are they are almost like a
4:43
small computer unto themselves. Oh, it's
4:45
Adam Curry: like my LED lights. Yes. Yeah. It also buzzes on
4:48
your microphone. Dave Jones: So there are things that can happen with with these.
4:56
Where, where nothing you do on the computer For itself
5:00
actually, we'll fix it. You have to reboot the doc because the
5:07
doc is acting, it's acting.
5:10
Adam Curry: Acting Up. Yeah. Yes. Dave Jones: So the the what you see at the end of the is the
5:14
USBC cord that plugs into your computer. But what's happening
5:20
on the inside of that thing is your route you're actually
5:23
routing, your routing, USB A USB, excuse me USB one, two and
5:30
three, right, HDMI, HDMI DisplayPort potentially, if it's
5:38
supported VGA Adam Curry: video s video tell me RGB RGB s video audio
5:48
Dave Jones: networks, gold and Ethernet Ethernet and and and
5:54
Thunderbolt potentially three and four Thunderbolt
5:58
Adam Curry: Can you plug in your your Nintendo data glove?
6:02
Dave Jones: In the Lord little robot, Nintendo robot big. So
6:08
you're routing all of this stuff over over, you know, the small
6:13
connections, number of pins. The amount of things that can go
6:17
wrong with this are limitless. The so they usually always show
6:22
up with video first. So like in a in a financial services
6:29
environment. Three monitors is like standard standard standard.
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Yeah, standard minimum some sometimes four, sometimes five.
6:38
You see big like trading houses and stuff they may have 10 Yeah,
6:42
on a single machine. So the ability to do more than two
6:47
monitors three four monitors is just standard USBC based docking
6:53
stations Thunderbolt docking stations, I struggle with this
6:56
so bad. Yeah, they they just can't handle it. You because
7:00
there's you have different flavors of DisplayPort over USBC
7:05
you have passive and active in all of these the end depending
7:11
on which configurations if you plug it in, if you have one
7:15
HDMI, one display port and one USB C to display port that may
7:19
trigger them to one of them to go into a different mode. It's
7:23
mind boggling, but then I run across this wonderful support
7:26
document. After troubleshooting for a couple of hours. Lenovo
7:32
critical Intel Thunderbolt software and firmware updates
7:36
symptom sim systems may experience any of the following
7:40
symptoms you're ready. Yes, USB C port not working Intel
7:45
Thunderbolt controller not visible in the OS device manager
7:48
USB C or Thunderbolt docking station is not visible or having
7:50
connectivity problems. HDMI output not available system
7:53
battery not charging with the USB C power adapter connected to
7:56
the USB C port. Until Thunderbolt pop up error message
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Intel Thunderbolt Safe Mode error message BIOS Thunderbolt
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communication error or hang during post that and here's the
8:06
kit here's the kicker, the white is more these symptoms may occur
8:12
after six to 12 months of usage. What
8:18
Adam Curry: are there moving parts that were or what was
8:21
happening? Dave Jones: Hey, you tell me what does that even mean? That
8:25
sounds Adam Curry: like it's crazy. That sounds like well you know
8:28
that that monitor may have a driver update or something else
8:32
may change sounds like they're building in some wiggle room for
8:35
things changing external to the device.
8:39
Dave Jones: What could possibly be inside of these things that
8:43
would that would begin to trigger problems 12 months in
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the future. Adam Curry: Oh, I know that Venezuelan immigrants
8:54
Dave Jones: each Thunderbolt doc has a has a Venezuelan inside of
8:57
it, I Adam Curry: guess. Wow. Okay, I I feel your pain brother. I feel
9:02
your pain. Yeah. Dave Jones: Now multiply this across hundreds of users in this
9:06
you know, so it's Adam Curry: primarily but it's primarily the multi monitor
9:10
users that are experiencing issues. Dave Jones: What happens is the they seem to work fine. This is
9:16
like being going to industry conferences and this kind of
9:19
thing that this has turned into the USBC dock podcast. But going
9:25
to like industry conferences and talking to my peers. This is
9:28
universal. It's not it's not anything with one specific
9:32
vendor. Like evidently the Dell USB the Thunderbolt docks are so
9:37
bad that like you just go ahead and budgets 12 to 18 months and
9:42
they're gonna die. Like you just build that in they they they
9:46
swap them out like crazy. So this is my Can we please go back
9:51
to the old days standard Adam Curry: yuck and you know that's not going to happen and
9:55
the fact that it's Thunderbolt is kind of trippy is not what I
9:58
thought that wasn't Apple only Dang, but I guess it's the
10:00
standard. And Dave Jones: these dogs the old school dogs used to cost $200
10:07
Oh, these these Thunderbolt four dogs? They're $400.03 foot a
10:14
three foot Thunderbolt four cable is $75 Wow,
10:20
Adam Curry: what a gyp Dave Jones: it's outrageous and we're going to we're going to so
10:26
tell me we're gonna have driving cars we can't we can't even get
10:30
three monitors to work over USB see
10:32
Adam Curry: self driving cars? Yes. Dave Jones: Well self driving cars
10:35
Adam Curry: Well that brings me to your overview of the most
10:39
recent presentation by Google at their i o event. To explain the
10:43
future of the company. Yeah,
10:45
Unknown: I've ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai ai
10:52
ai ai ai, I found the AI really useful. ai ai ai ai ai, ai ai ai
11:00
ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai ai
11:14
ai ai, ai, ai, ai ai, ai students ai ai vertex AI
11:19
and that's the father of generative Adam Curry: AI toolkit. Generative, generative,
11:28
generative ai, ai ai ai, there it is. Now you know what they're
11:33
up to? Dave Jones: Like the one guy that didn't generate the AI? Is
11:38
that a pretend an Indian or pretending?
11:40
Adam Curry: No, that's Oh, yes. I heard that part of the podcast
11:43
as well. The pretending No, no, that's a real a real Indian.
11:49
Yeah, but before that, I need my randlett All right, go. This
11:53
morning at eight o'clock. My phone goes like literally 759
11:57
I'm about to take the dog out for a walk. I'm gonna NSC. It's
12:00
a 512 number. So it's an Austin number. I'm like, no, no, you're
12:04
too early. So I just send it to voicemail. Come back in,
12:08
actually have a call scheduled at nine and say, oh, yeah, let
12:12
me check this voicemail. voicemail from Deputy Sheriff
12:16
Jack Barnes Travis County concerning an urgent legal
12:19
matter calling back at this number. And I'll be waiting for
12:24
your call. Dave Jones: Oh, no.
12:26
Adam Curry: I'm like, Okay, I call back I get him on the
12:29
phone. Now, it's clearly Sheriff's Office, just from the
12:33
the sound of it. And that's legit. And then well, I mean,
12:37
I'm looking at a 512 number then as a whole, I'm gonna put you on
12:39
with my lieutenant. So Lieutenant be Neil comes on
12:42
badge number 03156. There are two there's a warrant out for my
12:50
arrest, because I have failed to appear as a grand jury expert
12:56
witness. And I apparently signed on April 15. I signed the
13:01
subpoena that came to my door, and he has the numbers and
13:05
everything. And, and he says, you know, basically you can be
13:09
arrested? Yeah. Because you know, there's a warrant out
13:13
because you have ignored the subpoena. And you've ignored the
13:17
you're in contempt of court. And, and then a sudden, you
13:22
know, we get disconnected. So he calls back. And then he
13:24
continues. And they said now, so there's two ways you can handle
13:28
this. There's the criminal procedure or the civil
13:31
procedure. I mean, this goes on, I'm like, holy crap. And my
13:34
heart is pounding. I'm like, what? There's Dave Jones: the you can there's an easy way and a hard way we
13:39
can do this is what he's Yes, Adam Curry: exactly. And it's like, I'm like, well, I should
13:43
probably call my lawyer. No, no, we have a maintain contact
13:47
order, which means we have to stay in contact with you as you
13:50
drive down to the sheriff's office. So we can process this.
13:56
And I'm likely, and so this is going on now. 10 minutes. I'm
13:59
like, holy moly. I'm racking my brain. I can't figure this out.
14:05
And then he says, so what we need you to do is you need to go
14:09
to this kiosk, and then you're going to pay a bond and then
14:12
you'll have a bar code and then you bring that data say Oh, hold
14:16
on a second. You got me. You got me. I said I'm calling my
14:20
lawyer. No, you can't have Oh, okay. It was a scam. 15 minutes,
14:24
they had police radio in the background. And it was
14:28
sophisticated. They had my address my name, of course, my
14:31
phone number. It was sophisticated. Wow. I'm not
14:36
wanting to fall for something. But along the way, there are a
14:40
couple of things that started to bother me a little bit, but I
14:42
was just so blown. I mean, this actually, I've been asked to be
14:46
a possible character witness for a friend in Dallas next week.
14:52
was like some bullcrap thing, but you know, so I've actually
14:55
I've had special agent show up at my door from the inn.
15:00
Inspector General's office and I said, I'm not talking to you go
15:02
away, you know, because, you know, they're just harassing. So
15:06
that was kind of the back of my mind. I'm like, holy crap, what
15:09
are they doing to me? Is this a deep state? Finally, finally
15:12
they got me. They found Oh, wait, I have that somewhere.
15:20
Where is that? Dave Jones: Like, so that were they using? Were they using
15:25
generated voices or something? Or no, Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, it was it was actual it was actual
15:31
let me see is this it there you go.
15:38
Dave Jones: I mean, that was for real legit like that. So so this
15:41
were these were people that had like a believable Texas very
15:45
Adam Curry: believable, very believable. The they had the
15:50
police radio in the background. It was totally I was in it. I
15:55
was like, oh, man, I'm screwed.
15:58
Dave Jones: Up. You just knew that you were gonna have to go
16:00
buy $5,000 of iTunes gift card when
16:04
Adam Curry: it was when it was when you have to go to a kiosk.
16:07
Wait a minute, what is the US business? No, no, no, no, no.
16:12
I'm calling my lawyer. No, you can't. You. You have to what was
16:18
it? You must comply. I'm like, I comply this. But, but hey, 12 to
16:25
15 minutes. They really have me Dave. They really really have
16:29
me. That's kind of scary. It's social engineering. You know,
16:33
it's, it was well done. They had a script and everything. This is
16:40
Dave Jones: so I was in on a security. Like a webinar. Not
16:45
too long a webinar. Yes. Yes. It was great. And this guy's good.
16:50
He does. He's a local guy. Gary Warners has named me from UAB, a
16:55
University of Alabama in Birmingham. And he's, he's
16:59
really good. He's been in the in the cybersecurity game forever.
17:03
And wait, before it was even a thing really. And he he made a
17:09
statement in this last, like the annual update from last I think
17:12
it was in December. And he said, If you know he said it, is it if
17:18
you know, in your family or out or friends with or neighbors
17:22
with anybody who's older. I mean, I mean, like, like any
17:27
anybody who's let's just say, careful, be careful, careful,
17:32
careful. Identify generation, baby. They said baby boomer or
17:37
older. You're not baby your genetics.
17:41
Adam Curry: You know, there's a big disagreement about this. I
17:44
believe I am Gen X 1964. September. There are some places
17:49
that say you're a boomer Tina keep because she's definitely
17:52
Boomer because she's 1962. And I just remind her I was the face
17:57
of Generation X. You were
18:00
Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm deaf. I'm definitely Gen X. You're You're
18:05
I think you're Gen X. Adam Curry: Well, I know. I'm Gen X, but there's disagreement
18:09
from some borderline boomers.
18:12
Dave Jones: Are they on the council? Are they on the Gen X?
18:14
Boomer council that my wife apparently Yes. You're one of
18:18
us. Don't try to deny. So but he said, you know, if you if you
18:24
know anybody whose baby boomer or older tell them about these
18:29
things, because they are a target right now. Billions of
18:33
dollars is being milked fro Adam Curry: Yes. Oh, older people. I've actually helped
18:38
some people here. Who was going to be Oh, yeah, no, it took them
18:41
to the bank and everything like Stop, stop, stop this payment.
18:44
Stop this stop that, you know, ah, sad. And we've we've had,
18:49
we've had we got a special thing coming up in church for these
18:52
people. Oh, that's good. Because then the main thing is, in the,
18:56
you know, text messages, they're the you know, that's the big,
18:59
that's the big catch all so I got a text message. So that must
19:02
be official. And what what these guys got me with was the 512
19:07
area code that was sophisticated.
19:10
Dave Jones: And in the end, the local accent and and, and, and
19:13
Adam Curry: the police radio in the background. That was good.
19:17
And it was loud. You know, like there was a dispatcher. That was
19:20
quite Dave Jones: well, let's see this. This is in 2023 total
19:26
losses reported by c three to those over the age of 62. Up to
19:29
$3.4 billion. Adam Curry: Dude, it's a bigger industry than podcasting.
19:38
Dave Jones: We're the wrong money with these guys.
19:43
Adam Curry: We're in the wrong business. Dave Jones: Yeah, we should do how you it's it says tickets is
19:49
value for value. You give me money and you don't go to jail.
19:56
Adam Curry: You know, just kind of on that, on that tip. But
20:00
where everything's going, the streamers are, are there. It's
20:05
all going down. It's happening in real time right before our
20:09
eyes. We you know, so first of all the recognition that no one
20:15
is watching television anymore. I mean, of course there's the
20:18
people watching obviously obviously some shows they'll
20:21
have millions of people watching, but not 20 million.
20:24
Dave Jones: Quick Adam, name me one television show that's on
20:29
broadcast television right now. Adam Curry: Now the only thing I would guess is NCSI but I don't
20:34
even know what the which one Special Victims Unit I couldn't
20:37
know I can't name anything Dave Jones: at all six people in the last week that question not
20:42
one of them that name one you Adam Curry: know, this one, they say how do you go bankrupt
20:46
really slow and then it goes fast. All of a sudden this I
20:49
think we're in the going fast acceleration phase. And what's
20:53
happening now is the streaming companies who of course now you
20:57
know, now we got to show profitability. It's not to say
20:59
that Netflix isn't successful. Netflix, arguably the earliest,
21:03
the quickest to the game. And they've pulled back on a lot of
21:06
their a lot of the money they were putting into production.
21:10
And of course everyone's now starting with ads. Everybody has
21:13
an ad. So we've taken advertising base television off
21:17
of cable primarily. And remember, cable was brilliant,
21:21
because you got paid per household. So if you just had a
21:25
channel on cable, this would Al Gore he bought he bought and
21:28
sold the whatever I forget, it became AlJazeera I think I don't
21:32
know. Really? Yeah, if you are in a million households, you get
21:38
a million bucks a month. That's just because it minimum $1 ESPN,
21:43
which is still I think required. You're required to take ESPN by
21:49
most cable companies, they get $7 per subscriber per month off
21:54
of that cable bill goes to ESPN or slash Disney. So now the now
22:00
in so we unbundled everything basically pulled it all apart.
22:04
We got Disney over here. And we got Paramount over here. And
22:08
we've got Hulu, which was kind of a sad bundling of television
22:13
shows. And now, well, I'm going to go to the ditzes at Yahoo
22:19
Finance. two clips. The first the first one. The first one
22:24
shows you kind of the lay of the land. The second one I think is
22:27
actually the meat of what's happening here. Unknown: Rebbes Lake Alliance has emerged in the intensifying
22:33
streaming wars, Disney and Warner Brothers discovery are
22:35
teaming up to release a brand new streaming bundle later this
22:38
year. So what does this new partnership mean for the
22:40
streaming landscape moving forward? We're looking at how to
22:43
navigate the big picture with the Yahoo Finance playbook. And
22:46
we're joined by Ken Leon, Research Director of equity
22:48
research at CFRA and Jamie lovingly, third bridge sector
22:52
analysts shaping them start with you. You're here with us in
22:54
studio, I really Adam Curry: want to slap her but Unknown: man, I just keep getting like so amused by this
23:02
discussion, because it's like this new innovation bundling,
23:06
which is cable. No,
23:08
Adam Curry: it's not cable because these bundles don't get
23:10
paid per channel. That's not true finance lady PayPal
23:13
Unknown: did right. But do you think that this is the way
23:16
forward? And is this going to benefit the various parties who
23:19
are doing it? It definitely is interesting development. And we're seeing
23:22
this increasingly in this space. One thing we've been hearing a
23:25
third bridge from the experts we speak with just the fact that
23:27
what streamers are looking for ways to not only drive growth,
23:30
but also manage churn is a huge issue. Serial Turner's are one
23:34
of the things which all these platforms have to deal with his
23:36
people, either at the end of their show, they decided to
23:39
switch to a new platform at the end of a sports season, they
23:41
decide to just cut off that service. By having these
23:44
bundles, it's a new way that they can both drive longer term
23:47
customer value, but also showcasing different types of
23:49
content, you know, with the matchup of a Hulu and a max and
23:53
it Disney plus, it really covers all the bases of genres and can
23:56
appeal to a lot of different audiences. Adam Curry: Okay, so a lot of blahdy blahdy blah, but the
24:00
whole point is, they're churning cereal churn, which is great
24:03
show title, actually, cereal churn, because people are doing
24:07
exactly what we've heard everybody say, Yeah, I just want
24:11
to see this one show. And then I'll cancel the minute I sign up
24:13
and I pay my What is it now? Is it 17 $18, which is still pretty
24:18
high, but I'll pay that and then if there's something else going
24:22
on, I'll catch it later. Now the second guy kind of lays out the
24:26
the real bones of this. I Unknown: think when you look at the bigger picture, it's really
24:30
a lot of these media companies trying to figure out how can
24:34
they be profitable. So the first step was reducing programming
24:38
and content spending. The second was de risking, because they
24:42
have no control really, of the customer. Unlike wireless, or
24:47
even cable TV decades ago, you had one or two year contracts,
24:52
so churn is very high, they will never release that. And also, if
24:58
you look at where Entertainment has moved to events to live
25:03
sports. So none of these management's will say that they
25:07
can get to a 20% operating margin on this business, nor a
25:13
50% EBIT, margin like wireless, so it's not a great business and
25:18
I think they're all de risking, they're reducing capital, and
25:22
they're gonna say, Gee, Netflix is a winner, large technology
25:26
companies can play here, what can we do for two things, one,
25:30
tried to grow subscribers and to try to get advertising revenue.
25:36
There Adam Curry: it is. So basically, we're going to see consolidation
25:41
Paramount is now being ripped apart, the all the parts are
25:44
going to be the actually the parts are worth more than the
25:48
than the whole. And the sum of the parts individually, it's
25:51
going to be ripped apart is going to be you know, typical
25:55
leveraged buyout. So you know, the strip all the assets, get
25:59
rid of Get out, get rid of all the people with lots of firings
26:03
ahead, and there will be some offerings, but it's all going
26:08
advertiser base, the big draw of Netflix and all these other
26:12
streamers was hey, man, I just pay a fee and I don't have to
26:15
deal with ads. It's all going to come back. It's all gonna get
26:18
crappier. And yes, you will have still have some big hit shows,
26:23
just like in the music business we have. We still have a Taylor
26:26
Swift and a Beyonce and there's an even there, I'm starting to
26:31
see some actual revenue issues. For Podcasting, value for value
26:38
is truly the only way to build up your community. I don't care
26:42
if it's 100 people that it is the only way forward at this
26:46
point. And the advertise and certainly in podcasting, no,
26:53
it's just No, it's not working anymore. Except for per inquiry.
26:59
I still like codes. If you get paid on a code bond, Gino, I
27:04
still think that works with what they what we call a post read I
27:07
think that's still works. And you're nothing like a little
27:14
boost. Which was well that's that's a low baller. That's a
27:18
7772 Crayon. Yeah. That's correct. Yes, thank you. Thank
27:23
you, I'm gonna have to turn that one off. So you guys are abusing
27:26
it. You should only be you should only be using that just
27:29
to accentuate something with the harp. When you light up the
27:33
harp. Dave Jones: I see. I see Eric pap fixing bugs. So. Yes. And,
27:42
you know, you saw I didn't fully understand what Spotify did with
27:46
that price floor change on
27:51
Adam Curry: their bundling. Dave Jones: No, they said they said their Spotify Audience
27:58
Network span Adam Curry: lowered the worst name ever. As horrible. Really?
28:06
Did you just say spam what? We're just calling it spam. From
28:11
now on. We're just calling it spam. The
28:13
Dave Jones: marketing jargon here was was virtually
28:17
impenetrable. But I think I figured it out. They said that
28:21
when it's all got to do with programmatic delivery, like you
28:25
know, stitching in the ad as you as you listen. And evidently
28:30
they call it a waterfall. Adam Curry: Yeah, where you're at the bottom drowning.
28:37
Dave Jones: It's a waterfall where your foots in the drain.
28:39
Yeah. So they have there's like three layers to this thing.
28:45
There's direct sale, or direct buy and then there's span the
28:51
span Spotify Audience Network, and then there's like
28:55
programmatic delivery I guess that's like we don't have
28:58
anything else let's deliver a Viagra ad or something needed
29:01
bottom of the barrel. Yeah, but but the spec they said they
29:06
lowered the price floor on the span part and I think what that
29:12
means is that the Spotify Audience Network will take we'll
29:18
get more of the of the inventory delivery.
29:22
Adam Curry: Yeah, the the remnant the low level fruit the
29:26
not even fruit is dried up with dried up. It's like raisins,
29:31
Dave Jones: in a way is raisins. Yeah, it'll win it'll win the
29:34
bid more often. So things are pulling from span more. And like
29:39
this. You know, we aren't we we already have seen this
29:46
subscription stuff. That's, that's the only way to make
29:51
these things work. The advertising alone can't sustain
29:54
it. It's not everywhere you look it's always which You know
30:08
Adam Curry: not gonna last long kids use it sparingly.
30:13
Dave Jones: But the I think we got our we ended up with a wrong
30:19
idea of the way that the monetization of all of this
30:22
stuff worked. Because we put your Facebook and Google, which
30:28
dominated advertising in May, obviously makes make billions
30:36
and billions of dollars. And so I think it left us with this
30:39
idea that advertising is, is always in everywhere going to be
30:44
a winning strategy for for, you know, for revenue. But
30:50
Adam Curry: it's not, but it's not no, it
30:54
Dave Jones: only it's only a winning strategy if you are
30:56
essentially a monopoly in a business which Google is and
30:59
Facebook is. Facebook is, is a is a virtual I hate this. I hate
31:05
the term virtual monopoly. Yes, but they but you I think you
31:09
understand my meaning and the players within the social media
31:13
world. Facebook is as close to a monopoly as you're gonna get a
31:18
Twitter's a, that's a joke. I mean, it's an also ran. And it
31:23
Facebook, Facebook is the 900 pound gorilla. Nobody even comes
31:27
close to second. Adam Curry: That's because they they're not really in brand
31:30
advertising there. They're like the classifieds. You know, it's
31:33
like, and that's starting to wane as well be you want, you
31:36
want some spam, you want some bots, go and put an ad on
31:39
Facebook. I mean, that's podcasting
31:41
Dave Jones: is the anti monopoly. Ooh,
31:46
Adam Curry: like that is showing that. You
31:48
Dave Jones: know what I mean? They're there. It's the podcasting is by definition, anti monopoly because it is so
31:55
diverse. Nobody will ever dominate. In this in this arena.
32:01
Even people who have large audiences, there still only one
32:06
show in a person's podcast app. That person also has, if a
32:10
person listens to doesn't matter if a person listens to three
32:13
hours of Joe Rogan a week. That person also has 17 Other
32:17
subscriptions. Yeah. And it's net, it is absolutely the anti
32:21
monopoly. And so there's no way that advertising is going to
32:25
ever become the main player that supports podcasting. It's just
32:31
not. I mean, I mean, in order to provide everybody with like,
32:35
livelihoods is not happening.
32:39
Adam Curry: Well, in addition, in addition to that, we went
32:43
horribly wrong many, many years ago in podcasting, I would like
32:48
to try and explain and this has come up for me recently, as I am
32:54
realizing that the pitch podcasting is making is pretty
33:00
much centered around a couple things right now monetization
33:06
growing your show video. That's pretty much the pitch. And when
33:11
we first started, okay, so when we first started podcasting,
33:15
what was so common, I don't use this word easily. What was so
33:19
awesome was you were hearing people who weren't professional
33:26
broadcasters, they didn't have a professional delivery.
33:31
Unfortunately, it was very hard to even get a semi professional
33:34
sound. And so somewhere along the line because and I tried it
33:39
was 10 years ago, I tried to get the Kastmaster probe out there
33:43
and like we need to get people back into just sitting down
33:47
recording and then putting that out and because we didn't have
33:51
real time processing basically we had musician gear you know
33:57
that we were that we had repurposed broadcast gear was
34:00
out of control expensive. I mean, the amount of rigs I have
34:05
built over the years with DB X compressor limiters with literal
34:11
racks with the what I have done processing units 19 inch boards
34:19
everything because that was just too much for people to figure
34:24
out and and the sound quality was so poor without some of the
34:29
basics we resulted to this format where you record then you
34:37
or preferably you hire someone who is then going to process
34:42
that check you chop out all the arms and the eyes and tighten up
34:46
spaces of now you Phil Spector with a wall of sound brighter
34:50
eyes, my big baggy as boys and we became and we became
34:54
something that is just boring like radio, you know, just we've
34:58
kind of reached we kind of recreate He did that. And we
35:01
never really got that. In fact, Dave Winer, I think he said,
35:06
This might have been an interview he did. I'm thinking
35:08
James Cridland had this somewhere. Weiner was concerned.
35:12
And it's a valid concern. He was concerned about me being kind of
35:17
the face of podcasting, because and I think there's something to
35:20
this, because people would hear me and think, Well, I can never
35:25
be that professional. Whereas the idea that you can just be
35:30
someone who just records a podcast about your the topic,
35:34
that's your passion, about your community of interest about your
35:38
local community, about your school, your church, your your,
35:42
your soccer club, whatever it is. And that that will be Oh,
35:46
that's not a good podcast. And I think we actually that happened
35:49
to us, we got to that point where, well, that's not a good
35:53
plug. And now it's even taking it one step further. If you
35:57
don't have headphones on with mics, and it doesn't say rode on
36:00
the boom, and you don't have video, you're not a podcast.
36:03
Yeah. And along with that comes a need because we have serial
36:09
churn, we have serial churn in the hosting business. And as I
36:13
was listening, I've only listened to a little bit of pod
36:16
news weekly review, but as I was listening about you know, the
36:20
the never ending conversation of purse first party data, bliss
36:24
and time statistics, etc. A James and Sam both made valid
36:28
points that James says, Look, stats are very important because
36:32
that's kind of the only thing that the new podcasts are has
36:37
that validates what they're doing is okay, I see a download
36:41
from from Lithuania. And I'm sure it's Dolby Das, his mom who
36:46
sit in there. And you know, I won't go into downloads. You
36:50
know, all these weird kind of stats. Interestingly, now that
36:54
James has seen that, that his, the Buzzsprout, what does that
37:00
thing called? Dave Jones: Fan Mail fan mail, that
37:05
Adam Curry: if he puts that if he incorporates that into a
37:08
show, all of Jacksonville, Florida will send him fan mail,
37:12
which is of course what Buzzsprout is located. But the
37:16
idea that comments will be one way totally valid. And then Sam
37:20
pipes him, but it was kind of poo pooed a little bit. But what
37:24
I have seen when you put someone on value for value, and they see
37:30
Satoshis coming in the mail one person listening is exciting
37:35
because you every minute you see five SATs go by I just had this
37:38
experience, a dear old friend of mine, Vic Pepe, know from the
37:43
music business. He's been a big IT guy now. He started a podcast
37:47
called 10,000 miles. And even though he knows me, and even
37:50
though I was number two interview on his podcast, it was
37:53
all YouTube is all YouTube. And you know, he's got the camera
37:57
all set up. And everything is he's done like nine episodes.
38:00
And he says, you know, what, do you got any feedback? I said,
38:04
Yeah, turd, you're talking to the pod father here. And so I
38:08
send them to blueberry to vid to pod any and he gets it set up,
38:14
you know, a couple of hiccups and stuff. But Mike Newman
38:17
actually very helpful. So he gets a set up, he puts it out
38:20
there. Its value for value. And of course, I boost him
38:25
obviously, he's all jacked. He's calling me like, I got gotten a
38:28
boost for me. But then he sees other people just listening, he
38:32
got a boost. He's like, how does this happen? It's amazing. So he
38:36
is so excited. Just and it's not about the amount of money. It's
38:41
just the validation, which he's not getting from YouTube, on
38:44
YouTube, you know, he's got like 100 views, you know, 200 views,
38:49
my episode was more i I tweeted it a link or whatever. But in
38:53
general, it's just a, it's a handful of views. And so when he
38:57
sees that coming in, he's excited. And I feel that podcast
39:04
hosting companies. Now, of course, some notable exceptions
39:07
who were all in on this train, need to push that because that
39:12
is what's going to retain your customer. That is the excitement
39:16
that people need. And I think it's great that you know, people
39:19
have magic, magic mix music, sound things and all that to
39:23
help people I think all of that is fantastic. You know, but but
39:27
we need to maintain the idea that just anybody can do it. You
39:31
stop with this pressure of OH, you can get out of $10,000 in
39:35
advertising. That's not going to retain anybody. It's
39:38
unobtainable, actually. And I think that we even and this kind
39:45
of gave me a thought that you know, for for comments I hate
39:48
using the CAC term, but for activity pub interactions, the
39:56
social interact as it's technically known Maybe that
40:00
should be something the hosting company should be pushing,
40:04
instead of relying on the apps to do all this work. That was
40:07
actually something James said. I think so too. And I caught
40:11
myself going. Yeah, you know, I think you're right there. I think that's, that's a really good point we have, because of
40:17
the push we have made, because of the integrations we have
40:20
done, we actually got something to be done that people said
40:24
couldn't be done for a decade was Apple actually did
40:27
something. Now, yeah, typical Apple fashion, you know, they do
40:30
it their own way. And you know, their shit don't stink, and
40:33
they're better with their transcripts for I don't care.
40:35
They linked to our namespace, and it's a validation of what
40:39
we're doing. I believe we can push many more of these things.
40:43
Now, is it unthinkable that they would allow you to connect a
40:46
wallet, etc. In the future? I don't know. But I know that my
40:50
boy Vic is now pushing 2.0 apps because he loves it. He loves
40:55
the idea of seeing validation come in. And his hosting company
41:01
is blueberry because blueberry allows that and he was able to
41:04
figure it out himself, you know, when he got a wallet and
41:07
everything was all set up. Beautiful. And but now and you
41:11
know, I pointed him towards Saturn because Saturn relaunched
41:14
their stats for what is that it's honestly your I keep
41:19
forgetting Saturn dot fly dot
41:22
Dave Jones: Dev. Yet wonderful. You
41:25
Adam Curry: are now it's horrible. You are I'll be out contracts is still out there. And then of course for the more
41:30
advanced, you know, helipad. And the same goes for for life. You
41:34
know, this is the trend people love listening to live, they
41:37
just love it. And you know, what do we have? I don't even know
41:40
what we have in the boardroom right now. It's like maybe what
41:43
20 People doesn't matter. It's that interaction. It's these
41:47
things that are going back and forth. It's full. If you and I
41:50
just did the show and had nothing but stats and podcast
41:54
index dot social, I think it'd be we'd be a lot less motivated.
41:58
Dave Jones: Oh, for sure. Totally. I don't know what it is
42:02
about. Because Because you're it's no different than just
42:06
looking at a spreadsheet. Like, if you get okay, it's it's the
42:10
difference between if we just talking about purely financial I
42:15
mean, like there's, there's, I think there's a lot more to it.
42:18
It's a psychological thing more than financial. But, but let's
42:22
just put it in financial terms, just for illustrations purposes.
42:27
If you if your company is doing if you just get a spreadsheet at
42:35
the end of the quarter, saying well, you just you know, you
42:38
made this much profit. I mean, that's great, but it's not what
42:42
you would call exciting. Adam Curry: Spread, but not sexy.
42:47
Dave Jones: But if you're a bit if you're a sales guy, and
42:49
you're getting those commission checks every month, you that's a
42:53
different thing. There's something about I don't know how
42:58
to explain some value Adam Curry: for value, I put this work into it, I got
43:02
something back. Dave Jones: And, but it's more like the I think the difference
43:09
with boosts and streaming sets is that you're getting pushed,
43:18
you're getting real time communication. It feels like
43:23
like if somebody turns when somebody listens to your show.
43:27
Okay, here, here's a I think I'm zeroing in on this right now.
43:30
Okay, so when I listen to a podcast, I can't control the
43:36
show. You hit the play button. In your, in your now you've
43:43
turned yourself over to the host. They're in control. You
43:48
are now just along for the ride. And you don't and it's there's
43:53
an excitement there because you're not sure what's going to
43:55
happen next. Because you're you're relinquishing your
43:59
control. Yes, you've become passive. And you're experiencing
44:04
the the podcast. That value for value is streaming says flips
44:10
that back on the podcast or to where now the podcaster is doing
44:14
the same thing. They've relinquished control and they're
44:17
watching seeing things happen in real time as these events come
44:23
back to them. Yeah, it's sort of it's like the most pure two way
44:27
street. Because you're it's almost like your your watch as
44:31
the podcaster you're watching this event happening the same
44:36
way your audience is, you know, I think so. I think it's it yes,
44:40
there's a financial aspect to it. And it's always nice to make
44:44
some to make some money and that kind of thing. But like when
44:48
you're when that when the harp triggered a while ago. Yeah,
44:53
yeah, was it we didn't know that was gonna happen and it makes it
44:56
fun. Yeah, it makes the whole experience fun because you're
45:00
So, now you've engaged your audience and they're able to
45:03
bring you on an on an unexpected journey that you can't control.
45:09
I think I think that's, I never thought a bill I like like that.
45:12
That's a really cool idea. It's, Adam Curry: it's important because it, and I'm saying this
45:17
for our hosting company partners, they're the most
45:20
stable part of the entire ecosystem. And the, you know,
45:25
the amount of time and energy may be nothing for him, I don't
45:28
know, but what, what Buzzsprout put into the fan mail app, I
45:31
mean, I wish they would have put that that energy into, you know,
45:37
a social interact, they're there. They're a big player,
45:41
when they do something, when in fact, they were instrumental in
45:44
moving a lot of these things by adopting transcripts and
45:48
chapters and all these things early on. And, you know, as one
45:53
goes, so go the rest. And then I love seeing the 2.0 native
45:56
companies. I mean, these guys, I think that there, if you look at
46:00
them on a pure profitability scale, they're probably out
46:02
doing percentage wise, bigger companies, because it's, you
46:06
know, it's one guy, right, one guy who can do everything, and
46:09
can still handle the relatively low amount of, of customer
46:14
support. But they're really pushing the envelope really
46:17
moving the needle on things. I see what Sam was doing with true
46:23
fans, I mean, he's out of control. He's out of control, is
46:26
out of control, you selling books, and there's all kinds of
46:29
stuff happening, which is great. I mean, it's beautiful. It's not
46:33
all quite, you know, there's not a lot of ecosystem behind him
46:36
yet. But he's worried Dave Jones: that it's madness. Yes, it's pure madness. But the
46:41
Adam Curry: idea that you want to give somebody joy for just
46:44
being themselves, I'd like to get back to that. That's what
46:48
the podcast industrial complex, it kind of kind of clicked for
46:51
me. I was having a couple of conversations with people. I'm
46:54
like, you know, what, where do we go wrong with, you know,
46:58
here's, we kind of talked about this last week, but radios main
47:03
function. And I've been in radio since I was 15 years old with a
47:07
five watt transmitter in my little village south of
47:11
Amsterdam. Radio has always been a local medium. So whether it
47:16
was the kids in my neighborhood going, Hey, man, I heard your
47:19
signal and my mom drove me around the block to the closed
47:22
hospital radio station at the tulip Hospital in I'm still
47:26
Fein, where it was literally a captured audience. They could
47:30
not leave. And we're basically just playing requests for them
47:34
from their family, etc. For people who are in the hospital
47:37
Dave Jones: that has a really fun hobby. It
47:39
Adam Curry: was great fun. To the pirate radio stations. Yeah,
47:43
we had 150 Watts, we were only covering Amsterdam, we called
47:47
ourselves the rhythm of the Capitol, you know that we were
47:49
just playing dance music, but really for a dance oriented city
47:54
at the time. But to dizzy 100 in New York, even though that was
48:01
you know, 50,000 watts at the Empire State Building 50,000
48:07
Watts, you know, who did a flame thrower, who? New York. He was
48:17
still local radio. I was talking about the local events about the
48:20
mayor, you know, all these things that were local. Now
48:23
Elvis Duran, who I know really well. I've known Elvis when he
48:26
was still in radio and Austin in like the in the late 90s. That
48:32
he became the morning guy in New York. It's 100. Of course,
48:35
everything got consolidate. He went to I think they've got
48:38
bought by I heart. And so he now is the morning show guy in eight
48:43
cities, eight top markets. And yeah, they've localized stuff,
48:47
you know, in between record. Hey, it's Elvis Duran in New
48:49
York. Hey, it's almost ran in Houston. Yeah, so they've
48:52
localized that, but it's no longer local, and we've lost our
48:56
way in radio, and I'd like to bring that back. And now we have
49:00
all of that capability. In fact, I've been toying with the idea
49:05
of really just starting a local Fredericksburg, a Fredericksburg
49:09
local show that and it should be live and I don't know if it's
49:12
every morning or whatever, but it needs to be live. It's a
49:15
podcast you can listen to whenever you want Dave Jones: to please do a morning show. For greater
49:22
Fredericksburg weather. Adam Curry: There's a lot going on in Fredericksburg and we only
49:29
have one weekly newspaper. And it's very politically motivated
49:34
and it's very left which is you know, contrary to a lot of live
49:38
around here. But it's Dave Jones: per se that pollen counts up to 2500. Today you'll
49:44
be careful out there. There's Adam Curry: a lot going on in Fredericksburg that is not
49:48
discussed that there is no end all the all the towns and cities
49:51
really have as a Facebook page where everyone yells at each
49:54
other and is useless. So
49:56
Dave Jones: college it just a local college
50:00
Adam Curry: Thank you even just a local call in show. So I've
50:03
given myself the the edict to lift 1000 voices across America.
50:08
I haven't figured out what that means yet, but I'm working on
50:10
it. Because and it's actually you know, this guy, Fernando.
50:16
Hold on a second. Let me grab this Dave Jones: fernet. Feta net, Fernando.
50:23
Adam Curry: Fernando is Where'd that come from?
50:29
Dave Jones: Did that come through? Adam Curry: What was that? Sorry. That's that was
50:36
Dave Jones: the Bluetooth does work actually. Adam Curry: I was looking I don't think I put that into the
50:42
into helipad. Again,
50:46
Dave Jones: I forgot that I looked up the road caster the
50:49
Bluetooth. Okay. Adam Curry: So he so he's a kid who he came to America from
50:58
Brazil with 100 bucks in his pocket. And, and so he has a
51:03
full time job. But he started this company audio sigma. Let me
51:09
see if I can find the audio signal here. Sigma. Yeah, here
51:13
we go audio sigma.com. And actually, Todd turned me on to
51:18
be and so you know, we got to talking. And so he's now built
51:21
this thing called, Oh, these are pretty Yeah, the pod mobile. And
51:26
it was all analog, basically transistor base. And now he's
51:30
done a DSP version. And he's actually sent me one I haven't
51:33
tested and tested on his other ones. So here is a device that
51:37
is about 300 bucks. And it really does everything it does
51:40
everything your road caster can do, but limited, you know, it,
51:44
it's for one or two mics it has does have the loopback for your
51:47
computer, you can actually power it from the computer doesn't
51:50
even have an external supply. But my point is, here's here's a
51:54
an entry level device, and maybe I have to do some courseware or
51:58
something. Thank you Sam Sethi and Dobby das for getting that
52:01
set up because now that now there's a way to do it to do
52:04
courseware to help people just use your own voice to have a
52:09
good sound I just need people to your sound just has to be good.
52:13
This device I've tested these other ones of his there
52:16
dynamite. I mean, I said you should be handing this out to
52:19
Ray Ray roving radio reporters could you can clip it on your
52:22
belt, plug it into your phone, it sounds fantastic. But you
52:28
know, like we need to get back to that place and stop with the
52:32
it all has to be professional. It all has to sound big. It all
52:36
has to be perfectly you listen. I love James Cridland. The way
52:44
he speaks. I love his imperfections. I know he's I
52:47
know he has a stutter. I love that. That that makes him a
52:51
human being to me. And he and he doesn't edit it out and he could
52:56
easily do it but he doesn't. And
52:58
Dave Jones: Todd, I love I love to deliver Todd has taught
53:01
Adam Curry: us voice that is I mean, if you would go to a radio
53:05
station, they laugh you out of the building that voice No. But
53:11
that's what makes it so beautiful. And we've had these
53:14
guys who do stuff live Todd and Rob they do stuff live. And even
53:18
when they're boring me to death, I can listen to him live. It's
53:23
exciting. I can send a boost. I can I can rag on him I can. This
53:27
is where we need to get back to with podcasting. And we need to
53:31
just take a breather on this incessant non stop advertising
53:36
video. Got it? I mean, this is why no one's making money in
53:40
podcasting is because you all gotta hire an editor, Jan briny.
53:44
I love her DeVore I trained her I would say she does value for
53:49
value, but she gives away a lot of her value. Because she has
53:54
someone edit Dave Jones: for her. Yeah, that's, that's steep. Whereas
53:59
this, if Adam Curry: we just learned to be a little bit better, you
54:01
know, by doing it, go ahead and stumble and make mistakes. This
54:05
is this was the I have to credit my ex wife with my ex ex wife my
54:09
first way when I was just starting out 19 years old is on
54:14
television for the whole country is doing radio, but the
54:16
television mainly, you know, and we do the show was once a week,
54:20
half the country watch and we'd be watching at home. And I'd be
54:23
I can't believe I flubbed that I hate. Like I'm mad at myself
54:27
because I flubbed a word. I stumbled over something and she
54:30
would look at me and go, you're not a robot that makes you
54:34
human. And then I took that to heart and ever since I've just
54:39
I've given up on it and and I think I've been pretty
54:42
successful in my career. By leaving that stuff in
54:49
Dave Jones: there, they send my daughter we had this exact
54:52
conversation with my daughter last night so she's, she's in a
54:54
band. And she they had A gig at an art auction in this it was
55:04
basically like a just a background gig for these high
55:08
high dollar art auctions at this local gallery. And people were
55:13
drinking and stuff and it was his her and four of her buddies
55:17
and they played the see they played boozer made his base made
55:22
for walking Adam Curry: as Nancy Sinatra classic. Do
55:27
Dave Jones: they play creep by Radiohead.
55:30
Adam Curry: Creep I'm doing a little Dave Jones: they played well, what's the the Jets?
55:42
Adam Curry: Nana nana nana da. Well, I found out that one
55:49
Dave Jones: day didn't their dad and Adam Curry: dad. were sucking really bad now that 123 Take a
55:59
look at me. That's the one. Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I can't remember they played that one. I
56:04
can't remember the name escapes me. But they they played a nice
56:07
little set. And so after it's over, she's like, you know,
56:10
she's like, Oh, I messed up. Mr. Fong crepe. I didn't. I didn't
56:15
come in at the right at the right. Part. And I was like,
56:18
we're like, you're, you're. That's that's the beauty here.
56:22
Are Adam Curry: you gonna be my girls language? Here we go.
56:27
Yeah. Yeah, who just hit us with a baller boost. Throw on a
56:31
second. Someone hits with the baller boost. Hello, phantom
56:35
power media. Dave, this is phantom power media. Hello,
56:39
Dave, tell your daughter to apply for our bands at Bitcoin
56:42
stage in July. It's an ad. It's a native ad.
56:46
Dave Jones: I will I will deliver this message Adam Curry: I'm gonna remove it. If you guys don't stop that.
56:55
Dave Jones: Miss, she'll have to, she'll have to pay for cover
56:58
band or a cover music rights. Right? Mechanical
57:01
Adam Curry: rights. Right? Yeah, if she does that one. Yeah. But,
57:05
you Dave Jones: know, we're telling her like, Hey, this is your
57:08
you're playing with a band, you've only been playing for the
57:10
band for a couple months. This is part of this is how you learn
57:14
by failing. Yes, you know, you learn you, you you go out you.
57:18
Because that's another thing with Adam Curry: auto channel. That's another thing that screwed
57:22
everything up. Oh, so Dave Jones: much giving up control, when that's another
57:27
time that you give up control. And that's one of the things
57:30
that makes playing live with a band. So exciting. Yes. And Eric
57:36
peepee literally said the exact same thing. Same Time I Saw
57:38
that's what makes it exciting is that you don't know what's going
57:43
to happen. And you're putting your own performance in the
57:46
hands of other people. Because the drummer may screw up. And
57:50
you know what, it's your job to save that to save the drummer.
57:54
Yes. And everybody's in it together. play bass, play bass.
57:58
This band is kind of cool, because they all swap out and
58:01
play everything. Oh excheap The one of the songs she plays drums
58:05
one song she plays guitar once on that she plays bass. And they
58:09
all kind of like in between songs. They all shuffle. Which
58:13
makes it even more complicated. Of course, you're gonna miss
58:15
out. But good drummers now. Yeah, right. But anyway, that
58:21
now I think I think you're right. I think the return to
58:25
load. Podcasting is perfect for local. Because yes, like
58:30
imagining that, that, especially now that we can do live over
58:36
podcast apps. I mean, that's perfect. You. I'm just imagining
58:40
a return to that to your hospital DJ. Yep, scenario where
58:45
it's like, you know, Hey, man, floor three Myrtle and room 302.
58:49
You know, we were here he is, you know, Adam Curry: did I ever tell you what we would do with when we
58:54
had a coup, we had our show on Friday night. And I was I was
58:58
the NG I was 15. I was the engineer. So what you do is you
59:01
go before the show started, you'd hand out request forms,
59:04
which are just pieces of paper. I was 15. So that's 45 years
59:09
ago. And, and they would fill it out. And then we take those back
59:13
and we'd start the show. But the studio was in the corner of kind
59:17
of a an auditorium not huge, but you know, where they would have
59:21
like small, like a bit like a three times a conference room
59:25
just put and the window. The Double Glass was right there. So
59:31
it was in the corner so you could see people in the studio,
59:34
and the studio could see out. So what we would do is we would
59:38
actually get the kids and we would roll their beds down into
59:42
the auditorium. Oh, that's cool. And then but we were playing I
59:46
remember it well. Iggy Pop lust for life. Remember that song? I
59:50
got a lust for life. A little bit like the Jets actually. And
59:55
so while that was playing, we got and we put we play bumper
59:58
beds with the kids we'd be bummed. The beds again. I
1:00:01
actually learned how to reinsert an IV from that experience,
1:00:04
like, crap. I can't come over here. Like, we're not all over
1:00:09
the place. But yeah. And it was arguably one of the most fun
1:00:14
times of my career and was, yeah, it was. It was unpaid. It
1:00:19
was a, you know, it's just a volunteer work. But yes, there's
1:00:25
local communities of interest, community, geographic
1:00:28
communities, but I think we've come the open, wide open
1:00:32
opportunity. And I'm going to tell you something, I'm going to
1:00:35
prove this. If I even if I'm not hosting, if I'm just exec
1:00:40
producing, or whatever I am doing because it's that's part
1:00:42
of my mission is I need to find new people to do stuff. I think
1:00:48
it can be run, where it would pay for itself and that people
1:00:53
would, you know, maybe it's not a full time gig, but I think a
1:00:56
local community would support a local station, a local, a local
1:01:01
show, I think it would support that it really would. Well,
1:01:04
Dave Jones: you already did in a in the the now lost to history,
1:01:11
the last episode of podcasting 2.0 That you did a you did a
1:01:16
request a music request show. And that was arena over boosts.
1:01:22
Adam Curry: That was the most highly boosted episode ever.
1:01:25
Dave Jones: Yeah, ever of all time. Yes. And this like so
1:01:28
there's no you now have in 2.0 ABS you can now do live streams
1:01:32
and boosts and you can get that's there you go. You have
1:01:37
you have a call in request show right there. So I think you
1:01:43
know, the other thing like is my daughter, my oldest daughter,
1:01:46
she's 22. She you're the last to face her work show. Yeah, that's
1:01:54
right. We she's in she's in communications, like, mass
1:02:01
communications. And so she was told recently, basically, that I
1:02:08
forgot who this was no future kid. It was almost like that.
1:02:13
She she's made. She's majoring currently in, in mass
1:02:17
communications. And the person told her basically do not go
1:02:23
into do not think that you're going to go into local
1:02:26
television because it's dead. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what
1:02:29
you've been saying the last couple of weeks. He said local
1:02:32
local affiliates shutting down or shutting
1:02:34
Adam Curry: down. You know, chat, if just the post in the
1:02:38
boardroom, you said you just described homegrown hits. You've
1:02:40
never heard that show. It's exactly right. Also, the no
1:02:45
agenda stream which is now that's been around so long that
1:02:48
that's really become its own entity. And that is 24 hours a
1:02:51
day. But people literally tune in to hear Darren Oh, on
1:02:55
Thursdays and Sundays they tune in to hear nick the rat on
1:02:58
Wednesdays they tune the tuning in. Then you have in the smoker
1:03:02
you've got oh my goodness, beers with buds, but you know, buds
1:03:08
with buds beard and smoking buds. There's all these
1:03:12
different shows. And it's all within that same ecosystem of
1:03:17
very simple chat room, the booster grams have become super
1:03:20
important. And it's not. It's not that Darren O is retiring?
1:03:25
No, it's It's the feedback mechanism is the hey man you
1:03:28
boosted cool, you see it in the chat room, the host responds to
1:03:31
it. This is stuff that that actually will. That is working,
1:03:36
the proof is there. And we need a little more engagement, I
1:03:41
think from the hosting companies, not all and I'm not,
1:03:45
I'm generalizing to a huge degree. And I'm also extremely
1:03:48
grateful with all the hosting companies have done so far. But
1:03:53
we can do more. And Dave Jones: I don't see why these local reporters for local
1:03:57
stations couldn't just strike out on their own and do and do a
1:03:59
local oriented podcast. And Adam Curry: we'll see we'll see some of that. But a lot of that
1:04:03
a lot of that culture and attitude is not easy to break. I
1:04:07
mean, the idea that you're going from we'll be right back after
1:04:10
these messages to begging for money grifting you know, all the
1:04:16
stuff that gets thrown at your head. That's a very tough change
1:04:20
for most people. Now I wanted as a part of this since we have the
1:04:24
Phantom the Phantom people in the nmpa National Music
1:04:29
Publishers Association sent a very damning letter to Spotify
1:04:33
and this is important that pertains to us. And Jim actually
1:04:35
posted on podcast index social about this. They say let me see
1:04:43
where this is. It has come to our attention that Spotify
1:04:47
displays lyrics and reproduces and distributes music videos and
1:04:51
podcasts using musical works without the consent of or
1:04:55
compensation to the respective publisher and or administrators.
1:05:00
are members in Perkins, who control the copyrights in the
1:05:03
musical compass compositions. As such, these uses of musical
1:05:07
works on the Spotify platform are not licensed or will soon
1:05:10
become unlicensed. So this is very interesting. I'm not so
1:05:17
this is probably more about lyrics and the music videos, but
1:05:21
the fact that put podcasts in there is important because
1:05:24
you're going to see podcasts come down very quickly from
1:05:27
Spotify. And a lot of them because people are using music
1:05:32
in in so many different ways that is unlicensed, because you
1:05:36
literally can't license it from from the traditional systems.
1:05:40
And Spotify will not think twice, it'll be hooked, gone,
1:05:44
quick, gone, hook gone hook, it's gonna be they're gonna be
1:05:46
running algos on it, it's going to be gone, gone, gone. And even
1:05:51
if it's just mute, they're not even going to check and see if
1:05:54
they if it's licensed, I just going to remove it. Big
1:05:57
opportunity. The main thing we need to shore up and we have a
1:06:01
version of it, we don't have everything perfect. But I would
1:06:04
think we need to implement the music license, the remote item
1:06:08
license, whatever we call it for inclusion of a bit of someone
1:06:13
else's work in your podcast, I'd like the remote item licensed
1:06:16
better than a music license. That was the same thing. So this
1:06:21
this is not not I'm not talking about an RSS feed of songs. Now.
1:06:27
There's a whole bunch of issues that have come up that that we
1:06:31
need to discuss but purely remote item. License. Yes, you
1:06:35
can use this under the value for value auspices. The it's been
1:06:39
written, it's out there, I think it just needs to be added to the
1:06:43
namespace and link so people can include it.
1:06:47
Dave Jones: Is that the case? Honestly, no. So I feel so ill
1:06:51
equipped to deal with something like this, that I feel like I
1:06:57
need somebody else to just give me the wording to put
1:07:01
Adam Curry: to put I'm gonna, I'm gonna carry this, I'm going
1:07:03
to carry this. I'm going to carry this the
1:07:06
Dave Jones: I think the lat to me where it fell off a cliff was
1:07:10
all of a sudden it took a turn into. Yeah, and we need to be
1:07:13
able to block certain apps from being able to play certain
1:07:16
music. And I was like, Whoa, I mean that
1:07:19
Adam Curry: the Exactly. So the, the way I don't carry this Dave
1:07:23
and I will I'll get the consensus and everything. So
1:07:27
there's a couple things one, I in this is the main thing we
1:07:31
have to understand. If you have an RSS feed, and you have an
1:07:35
enclosure, and that enclosure is an mp3, there is no difference
1:07:41
between it being dry, dred Scott's ISO, a feed, no agenda,
1:07:49
three and a half hour shows, or a three minute song. In the
1:07:54
world of podcasting, they are equal, ergo, therefore, if
1:08:00
you're going to like that, as my lawyer talk, you sound like a
1:08:04
philosopher is Raha ergo, therefore, the remote item
1:08:09
license is how I view this. So it's not because it's a song.
1:08:14
Because I feel that what if I make a great joke, or there's a
1:08:19
great a great bid, and someone wants to include that in their
1:08:21
show, just as valuable to me, as someone who spent three years
1:08:25
writing a song, you may not think that's fair, but in the
1:08:28
world that we're dealing with, they're equal. And so we need
1:08:34
the mechanism, if you're going to include something in your
1:08:37
show, and it's in the realm of value for value, you should be
1:08:41
able to say from this moment in time to this moment in time,
1:08:44
switch the wallets. It's coming from over there. And I think we
1:08:49
can add into that, a minimum requirement. So you got to give
1:08:54
me minimum 50%. You know, of the value block, take more if you
1:08:59
want. I mean, I think that's and it's always all going to be
1:09:02
gentlemen's agreement, general woman's agreement, Gen Zers
1:09:06
agreement. But we need that at a minimum to protect ourselves.
1:09:13
Even though we're all going to get kicked off a Spotify and AB
1:09:16
it's all coming. This is why we built this Dave, because they
1:09:21
will not discriminate. You got music and your podcast, you're
1:09:23
done goodbye. They're not going to check. They don't care. They
1:09:27
got no infrastructure to see. It's just like YouTube, as you
1:09:30
know, like tick tock, it'd be muted, all the all these
1:09:33
problems are coming, but we can solidify for ourselves that we
1:09:38
have the agreement and we're all cool with each other.
1:09:42
Dave Jones: So you think they're gonna start taking down stuff
1:09:45
that's not even guaranteed? There's not even related to
1:09:49
this, you know, an Adam Curry: example our church which I believe so our church
1:09:54
has a worship team, which as we all know, is Christian for band.
1:09:58
So they were worship teams. And the worst is
1:10:00
Dave Jones: to drummer have the plexiglass you better believe
1:10:03
it? Adam Curry: Yes, you better believe it. Yeah, he's got the
1:10:06
cage. So the worship team licenses music, from you know,
1:10:11
there's a whole industry, and it puts the words up on the screen.
1:10:15
So everybody can sing holy, holy, holy, and hands in the
1:10:19
air, like, we just don't care. And it's license, they pay
1:10:23
rights. And those rights are also for use in recordings on on
1:10:28
YouTube. And every month, at least once YouTube takes down
1:10:34
one of the sermons because they say you got to strike because
1:10:36
you use the license work, even though they have the right to
1:10:39
use it, they have the paperwork, it's backed up, it's, it's an
1:10:43
established system, which has been going for decades, the
1:10:46
system still takes the whole thing down. So that's going to
1:10:50
happen at Spotify now. It's just going to happen. So we need our
1:10:56
stuff to be tight. So that when content producers, whether they
1:11:02
make music or audio books, or whatever it is, we need a system
1:11:08
that is fair, and and and and open and everybody can
1:11:12
participate in. Hey, I made 100, I made 100 SATs on this. Here's
1:11:17
your ad. Dave Jones: So in and the license in the feed is a signal.
1:11:24
Yes, yes. This is this has this has been covered.
1:11:29
Adam Curry: Covered. Yeah, it's just it's just like Creative
1:11:31
Commons. Except, you know, we do it under this this particular
1:11:35
license. Now. I know that we're going to run into all kinds of
1:11:39
problems down the line and disagreements, et cetera over
1:11:42
music itself. I can't deal with that right now. All I can deal
1:11:47
with is the inclusion of a remote item. That part I want to
1:11:52
shore up so that when when the Exodus takes place, people know
1:11:56
they can come here. They can come into this ecosystem, and
1:12:01
they can promote the apps that understand and do this and
1:12:04
promote the apps that give the pass the value through. We will
1:12:08
we will overcome may pleasing Grace
1:12:15
Dave Jones: shall over. Adam Curry: We will we will. So remote item license is what I'm
1:12:23
looking at. Okay, remote, so you can use this content no matter
1:12:28
what it is at as a remote item. Here's my here's my my baseline
1:12:34
requirement. And the technology actually handles most of it. The
1:12:39
technology handle, you know if it needs to be surfaced what
1:12:42
this is, you know, just like when I look at I'm at podcast
1:12:47
Guru, I look at the sidestream music podcast by the way, Cody's
1:12:50
a great great episode this week was music Tony Hawk screwed up
1:12:55
on and didn't put it in his in his game. Really good as read
1:12:59
all the funny music. Yeah, it's very first great promotion. I
1:13:03
can go on, I hit the V for V tab and I see all the songs. I could
1:13:07
save those songs to a playlist, I could boost them separately, I
1:13:10
can play them separately, I can get into the arts and that that
1:13:13
stuff that technology, that remote item Thank you Alec says
1:13:16
is taken care of, is taken care of all that is done. So our
1:13:23
stuff will be tight. So that whenever anybody thinks they're
1:13:27
gonna come and mess with us, they won't even come be that let
1:13:30
those guys play over there. They're not the real music industry. Okay. Well, we've we've got, we've got some kind
1:13:36
of, you know, what, what is the Dave Jones: remote item license actually protect against
1:13:41
Adam Curry: protects against nothing. It's an agreement the
1:13:45
EU. It's just like a Creative Commons. If you really want to
1:13:49
take someone to court, you can create and I've, I've, I've
1:13:54
proven the Creative Commons copyright works in court for
1:13:58
that very reason. But it still comes down to a basic
1:14:04
understanding and agreement like everything, it's only as good as
1:14:07
the paper it's written on. Dave Jones: And this is
1:14:13
Adam Curry: this wood. It's not protecting against it really
1:14:16
doesn't protect you against anything except someone using it
1:14:20
and not passing on any payment to you. But we have no cops.
1:14:26
We're never gonna have cops to go out there. But you can say,
1:14:29
Hey, man, this is under the remote item license. So would
1:14:33
you please make sure that you put that into your feed
1:14:36
properly? That's really all that you can do in
1:14:38
Dave Jones: that, so so it's a matter of if you're going to use
1:14:42
this, you need to use a remote value split.
1:14:45
Adam Curry: Yes. And to answer cotton gins question. Yes, the
1:14:49
splits. The splits accomplish this, but it's it gives you a
1:14:54
little bit of backup with a legal document and I think we
1:14:56
should have a minimum requirement and the minimum
1:14:59
should always be baseline 5050. But as you can say, You know
1:15:03
what I'll I'll say I'll settle for or do I want 90%? Now, can
1:15:10
you stop someone from doing it? No, you'd have to bring action
1:15:15
against them. But guess what? This isn't a world. This is
1:15:19
about just making it clear what I'd like and what that I want
1:15:22
this system in play, it's solidifying, what splits are
1:15:26
it's solidifying what the remote item is? Yes, please use my
1:15:31
content in this manner. Here's the requirements that I have. If
1:15:36
you want protection code, ASCAP, BMI, sia EA
1:15:40
Dave Jones: keeps you from built. I think I'm understanding
1:15:42
this now because it was just, I think, kind of what you're
1:15:45
saying is it keeps you from having to build essentially the
1:15:50
exact same structure that already exists exactly. Again,
1:15:54
which which has which will have the exact same problems as the
1:15:59
other system course. It's centralized and, and punitive.
1:16:05
Yes. Adam Curry: Very punitive. Now, if you think you're gonna get
1:16:09
rich by anyone thinks they're gonna get rich, by all means,
1:16:12
don't have your music played on podcast, don't get it played
1:16:15
anywhere, you know, put it into iTunes and have fun. Good luck.
1:16:19
Absolutely. If you want to have an audience, and you want to
1:16:23
have value returned to you. That's why you're with us. Yeah,
1:16:30
there's not enough room in the world for all the people to be
1:16:33
successful and making you know, quit your job money. Look at
1:16:39
this podcast 180 episodes not quitting any job. For sure, but
1:16:45
I love what I do and I love my truck.
1:16:50
Dave Jones: There's no there's not there's not a the Creator
1:16:56
middle class is just, it's never going to be a thing. No. Well, I
1:17:02
Adam Curry: don't think you can I think you know, touring I
1:17:05
think you can do a lot. You know, a lot of people have a lot
1:17:09
of love for what they do. No doubt about it. I mean, we're an
1:17:14
unrestrictive system where you know, the traditional systems
1:17:18
are all that Why is everything failing because they no longer
1:17:21
control the distribution once podcasting came in distribution
1:17:24
was open Why does everybody wants to the move to YouTube why
1:17:29
because they control the distribution move to Spotify,
1:17:32
because they control the distribution they controlled it
1:17:35
but that's the way it's always work and those days are just
1:17:38
oversee the billion dollar Spotify blue
1:17:43
Dave Jones: at this, this actually sort of tend sort of
1:17:48
tangents into a kind of wanted to talk about that Jack Dorsey
1:17:52
interview. Did you read that? I did. The one in pirate wire.
1:17:56
Adam Curry: I did. I read the whole thing. You bet. Dave Jones: That he said this has some stuff in there. That
1:18:02
was pretty pretty noteworthy to me. I think they're all so let's
1:18:11
see. The you talking about this? It kind of reminded me of, of
1:18:18
him. He talked some about blue sky. He says, here's one thing
1:18:24
he said. He said what is the anti Twitter? He's talking
1:18:33
about? Blue Sky says what what happened is people started
1:18:35
seeing blue skies, something to run to away from Twitter. It's
1:18:40
the thing that's not Twitter. Therefore, it's great. And blue
1:18:43
sky saw this exodus of people from Twitter show up. And it was
1:18:47
a very, very common crowd. It was designed to be controlled by
1:18:51
the people. But little by little they started asking J she's the
1:18:55
CEO. Yeah. And the team for moderation tools and to kick
1:18:59
people off. And unfortunately, they follow through with it.
1:19:02
Everything we wanted around decentralization, everything we
1:19:05
wanted, in terms of an open source protocol suddenly became
1:19:08
a company with VCs and a board. That's not what I wanted. And
1:19:13
that's not what I intended to help create. Around the same
1:19:16
time I found noster. We don't know who the leader is. It's
1:19:19
like this anonymous Brazilian guy. It has no board, no company
1:19:23
behind it, no funding. It's a truly open protocol. The
1:19:26
development environment is moving fast. I gave a bunch of
1:19:28
and I gave him a bunch of money to them. Okay, so that's, that's
1:19:32
the quote. And he seems to be defining. I've got a few things
1:19:39
to say about this. But he seems to be defining openness as a
1:19:43
protocol that is not backed by any company. To him it if it's
1:19:51
if it has a company and control of it, it's not truly open.
1:19:56
Adam Curry: I find that to be true. This is why I liked
1:20:00
Bitcoin no CEO. Right? This is why I like RSS no CEO. But
1:20:06
Dave Jones: do you think that that's is that always the case,
1:20:09
though? And I'm gonna bring this back around to what we're
1:20:12
talking about Adam Curry: tell you why I think it's always the case because
1:20:15
it's never been the case. Bitcoin Bitcoin was the first
1:20:20
for me, even though I've come to appreciate RSS equally when you
1:20:27
have something that is truly just a format or a protocol,
1:20:31
either way. And I and to a degree, I think activity Pub is
1:20:35
that as well. These are the things that are being
1:20:39
implemented and used by people because they can, because they
1:20:43
don't need to pay a developer fee or do any of this stuff.
1:20:48
Anybody can do it. That was That was always the the idea behind
1:20:51
RSS and you people will come to me, man now. So do you have your
1:20:55
own plane? We're talking about God, you invented RSS. You
1:21:01
invented podcast, and then a podcast to bro, if we had done
1:21:04
that it would have gone nowhere. No one would be using it. The
1:21:08
whole point is that it just is. It just is.
1:21:12
Dave Jones: And now and when you're talking and he started, he started talking about licensing fees, and these guys,
1:21:16
NAD that's understand that. But is like blue sky doesn't have
1:21:23
Hold on. Adam Curry: I didn't talk about a licensing fee. But you mean in
1:21:26
regards to the music stuff? Dave Jones: No, no, I'm talking, you said, you know, royalty like
1:21:31
fees for implementation. And like developer
1:21:35
Adam Curry: like API access developer, you have to toolkit
1:21:39
and all this kind of stuff. But Dave Jones: that's see that's in that's where I'm, that's, that's
1:21:44
the interesting issue here is blue sky is a published
1:21:47
protocol. You can implement it yourself just like you can
1:21:52
activity pub. It's a it's just an it's an open specification.
1:21:59
And in that sense, it's no different than noster. You know,
1:22:05
but he has, he's saying he has a problem with it.
1:22:07
Adam Curry: Okay, well, can we separate a couple of things
1:22:09
because I also see stuff in the boardroom being discussed.
1:22:14
There's a difference between a protocol and the implementation.
1:22:19
So when I say activity piled right away, yeah, but there's
1:22:24
all kinds of lib tardes are Mastodon Mastodon is not
1:22:27
activity, pub nostre. The Social Network is not Nasir the
1:22:32
protocol to see the the the mistake, the big mistake of
1:22:39
nostre was the social network. Because only people in this
1:22:44
boardroom and not everybody even understand that there's more to
1:22:49
that than the implementation. So the implementation of RSS was
1:22:55
initially only blogs. I think if you say RSS people still think
1:23:00
blogs, they don't think podcasts, they certainly don't
1:23:03
think music distribution, or audio books, or courseware, or
1:23:08
any of that stuff. If that's the hardest thing we're doing right
1:23:11
now is we're we're moving people away from thinking this is just
1:23:15
for blogs, we're just for podcasting. And this can be for
1:23:19
all kinds of distribution. That's the hardest thing we're
1:23:22
doing. Dave Jones: See, okay, so he says to backup at the second he
1:23:28
says, he says in another prices. So what if we created a team
1:23:32
that was independent to us, he's talking about when he was at
1:23:35
Twitter that built a protocol that Twitter could use and then
1:23:40
build on top of, then we would wouldn't have the same
1:23:44
liabilities because the protocol would be an open standard, like
1:23:47
HTTP or SMTP. Twitter would become the interface and we can
1:23:51
build valuable business by competing to be the best view on
1:23:54
top of this massive corpus of conversation that's happening in
1:23:57
real time. And, you know, he says, he says, I know it's early
1:24:03
and noster is weird and hard to use. But if you truly believe in
1:24:05
censorship, resistance and free speech, you have to use
1:24:08
technologies that actually enable them to change arise,
1:24:11
blah, blah, blah, because these, those are technologies, no
1:24:13
company or government can compromise. The corporations can
1:24:17
be compromised, and they have been, I
1:24:19
Adam Curry: think there's a difference between Okay, let me
1:24:23
take mercy because I hear what you're saying. I hear what he's
1:24:25
saying. And I think he's incorrect in some things. I do
1:24:29
to Twitter started as an RSS based system. Where and that's
1:24:37
why that failed all the time, because they tried to centralize
1:24:40
RSS, where if they came out of Mike, the first term was
1:24:45
microblogging. So we all had blogs. And it was kind of a
1:24:49
groovy system, because we had a product called Google Reader,
1:24:54
but there are many others. And when that never got to flourish
1:24:58
that business online Like podcast apps that enable that
1:25:03
that created the product out of the protocol. Dorsey is
1:25:07
interspersing, the censorship resistant nature of a protocol
1:25:14
that allows you to communicate with social media, which is a
1:25:18
shit product. Yes, that's the problem. Social media is a
1:25:23
horrible product. It's a horrible product. I can't put it
1:25:27
any other. Now. You take activity pub in the context of a
1:25:32
reasonably close system, like podcasts index dot social, it's
1:25:36
an okay product. And I have an account, just podcast index dot
1:25:41
social, and I have ad server level have blocked certain
1:25:45
instances. And from time to time I go through it and go nope,
1:25:48
nope, I go to the public timeline. Nope. Because I
1:25:52
protect our community. So it actually functions as a
1:25:56
reasonable product for for the mission that we have. But are we
1:26:02
really doing social media there? No. In fact, I've asked some
1:26:06
people I said, Hey, could you not post that here? Because
1:26:09
that's just going to create a whole conversation that has
1:26:13
nothing to do with what we're doing here. It's
1:26:15
Dave Jones: more in podcasting index dot social is more like
1:26:18
just a big version of GitHub discussions. Yeah, yeah. Oh,
1:26:21
Adam Curry: yeah. A little less stringent, I think but yeah,
1:26:24
Dave Jones: it's very, it's just so hyper specific to one to kind
1:26:29
of one topic that it keeps some of the and and your moderation
1:26:33
on the back end. Keep some of that away.
1:26:36
Adam Curry: So what Dorsey's mistake is, in my opinion, this
1:26:41
he is equating free speech and censorship resistant speech with
1:26:47
a social network. No, the hard No, because it's not it's a crap
1:26:52
show, as people arguing, then, you know, it's like comments,
1:26:56
comments, depending on how you on how they're displayed, even
1:27:02
that determines the product of something that can be censorship
1:27:05
resistant. So podcasting is censorship resistant. And it's
1:27:10
but it's very different. And you can use RSS for a social
1:27:14
network, the see what Twitter did in the beginning, but that's
1:27:18
a crap product. Podcasting is a podcast apps are outstanding
1:27:22
product, people like them. People use them. Wherever you
1:27:26
get your podcast, it's a great distribution mechanism. So we
1:27:30
have to, we have to make a distinction between the protocol
1:27:35
and the product. Whoo, there you go.
1:27:38
Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, I think I think and I think that's, I
1:27:41
think that's where I'm struggling with what he's saying
1:27:44
and where I disagree with him is you can have, you can have open
1:27:48
protocols that are developed by private companies. I mean,
1:27:53
that's just the protocol itself. I mean, it's take the iTunes
1:28:01
namespace was open, we're all allowed to use it. It's not like
1:28:05
the it's not like the USBC. Right, but you can't get one
1:28:09
kangaroo. Adam Curry: But it holds everybody back. Because I like
1:28:14
the podcast namespace. Where there's no, there's no, there's
1:28:19
no other incentive other than just to keep the servers
1:28:23
running. Yeah, and no one. Well, I guess, technically, it's all
1:28:29
it's only as good as the people but when you have a corporation,
1:28:32
corporations have boards, corporations have targets
1:28:35
corporations have to make money corporations have a reason for
1:28:37
existence, podcast index, dot LLC podcast index, LLC, that has
1:28:44
one mission to make itself unnecessary, to destroy, destroy
1:28:50
itself. That is that is our ultimate mission. In the
1:28:53
meantime, keep everything running, but have a backstop. So
1:28:56
if we all keel over, then the servers keep running on AutoPay,
1:29:00
etc. But the mission is to make ourselves obsolete. And I think
1:29:04
we stated that clearly. With all these, all these censorship
1:29:08
resistant things, which protect us mainly from corporate
1:29:13
corporate from the corporate world. Dave Jones: They said because, okay, he says, He's talking
1:29:20
about Blue Sky says it was the anti Twitter. And he's talking
1:29:23
about how why he left blue skies. So he deleted his
1:29:26
account. He left blue sky. He says it was the anti Twitter
1:29:29
people were literally running from Twitter to blue sky. And
1:29:32
that's not a way to build something successful, sir. So he
1:29:36
says, Adam Curry: but they weren't running from they weren't
1:29:40
running away from Twitter to blue sky, the protocol. They
1:29:43
were running to the product, blue sky product. Yeah.
1:29:46
Dave Jones: And so he talks about surviving. And this is
1:29:49
where it this is what really, this is where I'm bringing it
1:29:51
back around a little bit because he says, he says, All that said,
1:29:57
I really respect J she's the blue sky. As CEO, she was under
1:30:02
a lot of pressure to survive. Yeah. And he's talking about,
1:30:07
you know, when they started doing moderation and this kind
1:30:10
of thing. It it's like he says, he says it's such a crazy thing.
1:30:17
It seems like the core leadership team at Twitter around you was just told this is the question the the guy asking
1:30:23
Dorsey the question. He says it seems like the core leadership
1:30:26
team at Twitter around you was just totally opposed to elements
1:30:30
throughout the company from the sales team to the board. It's
1:30:32
almost as if the company were fundamentally in conflict with
1:30:35
itself. He says it was also pretty reactive to what was
1:30:41
happening the world well, Adam Curry: because sent to be censorship resistant, there has
1:30:47
to be zero financial incentive. And by definition, if you have a
1:30:51
company, you're going to have financial incentive one way or
1:30:54
the other. Dave Jones: And, and I want this idea, he said that she was under
1:30:59
a lot of pressure to survive as a company. I think you said it
1:31:06
fine, earlier. But I mean, just to state it more clearly. Let's
1:31:11
set a goal to never try to survive as a company.
1:31:15
Adam Curry: No, we actually our goal is to destroy ourselves
1:31:19
that yeah, that's even better. That's the best goal ever.
1:31:23
Dave Jones: If podcast index dies, they just dies. I was
1:31:26
Adam Curry: talking to someone today. And you know, who want to
1:31:29
use the podcasts index as a back end? And which, you know, a lot
1:31:35
of a lot of people in this boardroom do. And I think
1:31:39
because there's a relationship, and there's several years of
1:31:42
history, now, people know what, you know, know, us know, how we
1:31:46
operate, know what we do and what we don't do. And they trust
1:31:50
us, there's a trust, there's a huge trust factor there. And I
1:31:54
don't think we've ever violated that trust. And I don't know,
1:31:56
there's just that we're just, we're good guys, now. But
1:32:01
someone from the outside says, hey, you know, so what happens?
1:32:04
If podcasts index goes away, there goes my business, because
1:32:08
I'm trusting that to be the back end. And I always say, Well, let
1:32:13
me tell you, first of all, we have $28,000 in cash in the
1:32:19
bank, and that money is on auto pay than that. And you know, it
1:32:24
costs real money to keep everything running every single
1:32:27
day, every single month. And we're expanding, and we'll need
1:32:30
more over time. But in general, we think three to five years,
1:32:34
this, if we got no, if the money stopped today, we could have
1:32:38
three to five years, it would continue, there'd be no extra
1:32:41
development, et cetera. But that would be it. Dave and Adam,
1:32:44
don't take any of that money for personal use. But I said within
1:32:50
that three to five years, we hope that there's just an index
1:32:54
space is just out there, then and you don't have to rely on
1:32:58
us, it will be just like, Tor, you know, or hash space, or
1:33:02
whatever it is, it will be, it will just be the way to get in,
1:33:07
there will be will be the way to get it out will be and this is
1:33:10
what things like pod ping and activity pub and we're figuring
1:33:14
all this out and things will know it's our mission, it's our
1:33:18
ultimate mission to make ourselves obsolete. So
1:33:20
podcasting will just be it won't be a place where accompany it
1:33:25
will be podcasting. It's just there, tap in
1:33:30
Dave Jones: it, to podcasts and to 1.2 point oh will survive
1:33:34
because it doesn't need any money. Right? The indexes,
1:33:38
podcasts index does need money. And if and if the market
1:33:43
determines it should die, then Adam Curry: it'll die. That's fine. It's not gonna, it's not
1:33:46
gonna. And Dave Jones: here's why. And here's what happens that the day
1:33:50
that the day that that does happen, I cut everything down to
1:33:56
the bone. We can run, we can run just we can run core services
1:34:01
for about $300 a month. And, you know, with with, with
1:34:07
Adam Curry: restricted restrictions on API access, I'm
1:34:10
Dave Jones: sure right, yeah. And that'll and that'll take
1:34:13
along for a long time. Maybe Adam Curry: we just put out a database every week. I don't
1:34:17
know. It could be any number of things. We could
1:34:20
Dave Jones: do that for I could do that paying for it myself out
1:34:22
of my own wallet. So the unknown I'm not worried about that the
1:34:27
it's just we're you know trying to survive as a company and like
1:34:33
Keep it keep yourself from dying. I mean, that's where all
1:34:36
the bad stuff starts. You know, that's that's yeah, that's where
1:34:41
things start to always go wrong. Yes,
1:34:46
Adam Curry: that's exactly right. It's always goes wrong.
1:34:50
Yeah, Dave Jones: so I'm just like, you know, the world the world
1:34:52
moves on things go away. So if we are you know, if for some
1:34:56
reason, the the economy just completely The tanked and
1:35:00
everybody's in the funding for the index data. This one we'll
1:35:03
move on. But, you know, he, he said something else about brand
1:35:08
advertising. He said, But this is this. I do agree with him. He
1:35:13
says, I think the core critical sin was choosing the advertising
1:35:18
model to begin with brand advertising is not like direct
1:35:21
advertisements, right, which is more programmatic. It requires
1:35:24
something like a Disney to essentially do you a favor,
1:35:28
because the only because the only players that matter to them
1:35:32
are Google and Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, everything
1:35:35
else doesn't matter. And these are ads, they're essentially
1:35:39
throw away money for them. But we made that choice in order to
1:35:42
go public. Yeah, Adam Curry: that's right. These are and that was to satisfy the
1:35:48
initial investors and you go all the way back up the chain.
1:35:52
Dave Jones: He said, we needed a model, Facebook's model was
1:35:55
really good. So we came up with an ad program and ran with it.
1:35:59
And I came back to the company a year after the IPO, and we were
1:36:02
seeing a decline in growth. And that manifested in the decline
1:36:06
in ad revenue. So our first focus was to rework the product.
1:36:09
So we were growing again. And then second was to get off this
1:36:12
dependency on advertisement. And when you're entirely dependent
1:36:16
on that, if a brand like Procter and Gamble, or Unilever doesn't
1:36:19
like what's happening on your platform, you're totally
1:36:21
threatened to pull the budget with accounts, which accounts
1:36:24
for like 20% of your revenue, you have no choice. Yeah,
1:36:27
Adam Curry: in that interview, he also says that it was easy
1:36:29
for Elon to fire half the company, because half the
1:36:32
company was in sales. You know, and all and trust me when I say
1:36:38
that the largest military contractor in the world, Elon
1:36:41
Musk, because that's what he is looking at his real businesses.
1:36:46
His mission is not to give you freedom of speech is just the
1:36:49
cost of doing business for him. By the way, he's giving you
1:36:52
freedom of speech, not freedom of reach. That's also in that
1:36:55
article, which is true. And I see that all the time. Hey, no,
1:37:00
no, I get no numbers on this post. You know, okay, fine. I
1:37:03
wonder why. All he's doing is making sure there's enough
1:37:09
excitement and action around x to keep everybody engaged as he
1:37:14
rolls out. His Kwazii podcasting infrastructure is make money on
1:37:21
your writing infrastructure. So he's trying to be substack. He's
1:37:24
trying to be trying to be Patreon, but not really not
1:37:28
really with subscriptions. But he'll roll that out. And it all
1:37:31
comes down to he wants to be your bank. He's got 38 Money
1:37:35
transmitter licenses, he'll have them all. And if there's not
1:37:39
enough action around his his x.com, he'll post something
1:37:43
outrageous to start up again. He just needs to keep everybody
1:37:47
engaged and on Twitter all the time, until he has everything
1:37:51
rolled out so he can be your bank. That's it. That's it. He
1:37:55
wants to be your bank. Dave Jones: It here's the quote you were talking about. He says
1:38:03
it was a brand advertising business and a brand advertising
1:38:06
business needs a huge sales staff. Over 50 to 60% of Twitter
1:38:10
employees were in sales. Yeah,
1:38:13
Adam Curry: there you go. There you go. But, but But make no
1:38:17
mistake, this is not about Ilan trying to give you freedom of
1:38:20
speech. No, no, no, no. By the way, can I just do a quick
1:38:24
namespace thing here? Oh, yeah, sure. Well, I'm not going to
1:38:27
play the jingle. Leslie Leslie has been emailing me. We got a
1:38:32
long distance dedication from Lesley Lesley says that she is
1:38:37
working on audio books. And she has a request for the season
1:38:44
tag. Which I thought was quite reasonable. Because I'm like,
1:38:48
Oh, by the way we updated season, we got season taxes.
1:38:50
Yeah, but it's not enough. I will quote from her
1:38:53
correspondence with me. I know that most hosting companies
1:38:57
support season numbers. But what would also be helpful is if we
1:39:01
could get a season level art and titles. Oh, she says I think
1:39:06
that would be a great help for audio books. And maybe even for
1:39:09
musicians, as they could put multiple works out as seasons
1:39:13
within a single feed and distinguish between them, rather
1:39:16
than having separate feeds for each.
1:39:19
Dave Jones: I think that's a neat idea. Adam Curry: I think it's an interesting way to look at it.
1:39:22
And we were just because she says you know, I can't afford to
1:39:25
have a new RSS feed for every single audiobook. So you gotta
1:39:31
Dave Jones: get people to subscribe to. Yeah. Because that
1:39:35
should just be an attribute on the optional attributes,
1:39:39
Adam Curry: optional attributes. So optional image and title I
1:39:42
think is what she's specifically asking for. And I said we
1:39:46
already have titles and titles we have but she wants art. Do we
1:39:50
have because I looked at it. Are you sure we have title?
1:39:53
Dave Jones: We have name you can name a season or you can name a
1:39:56
season. Like as names. Let me go to the GitHub brief thoughts on
1:40:03
point o season man
1:40:07
Adam Curry: that James Kerguelen his podcast namespace.org Sure
1:40:11
pops up at the top of the OGS now I liked that let me see
1:40:16
because I have season Dave Jones: it's the name attribute.
1:40:20
Adam Curry: Okay let me see Dave Jones: in the examples like podcast season Yeah,
1:40:27
Adam Curry: yeah yeah name equals yes name. So episode art
1:40:32
Dave Jones: Yes. So we just need an image URL attribute and
1:40:35
Adam Curry: hosting companies apparently are still only
1:40:38
offering the old iTunes namespace I guess the number the
1:40:44
season yeah for the season number but the people want names
1:40:47
and name title and image
1:40:50
Dave Jones: so I think we shouldn't want it to get against people what they will go on it there's
1:40:53
Adam Curry: a customer to customer customer waiting for
1:40:57
you right there. Podcasting 2.0 podcast we deliver customers to
1:41:02
you. You're gonna play a song. Oh yeah, let's do that right
1:41:06
now. Dave Jones: Thank you for reminding write this up as a as
1:41:09
an issue on GitHub while you're playing while I'm playing the
1:41:11
song. Adam Curry: Okay, good. I think I got this one from either the
1:41:15
Phantom music power hour I got it from the side street music
1:41:18
podcast another banger for a Friday everybody Tony Salamone
1:41:22
with red light of podcasting live
1:41:25
Unknown: on offense to the sky affair face first into the
1:41:32
concrete. Logging into my brain
1:42:33
changed and shaped?
1:43:40
Supernatural it's
1:43:51
the days Baby
1:44:42
Adam Curry: Tony Salamone red lights podcasting. 2.0 if you
1:44:45
boost if you didn't boost go back, rewind boost. Tell him you
1:44:49
heard it on podcasting. 2.0 That's a good one. That's a
1:44:53
great song. I love that track.
1:44:57
Dave Jones: Add an image href attribute to the season tag for
1:44:59
SC Have Adam Curry: you got it in? Alright, you nailed it, I
1:45:03
Dave Jones: get it in, I got it. That's
1:45:05
Adam Curry: how we write one song. And we've updated the
1:45:07
namespace Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I love it.
1:45:13
Cool. Good. Anything else for the board meeting here?
1:45:18
Dave Jones: I got some stuff that we can wait. We always push
1:45:21
Adam Curry: every now next week, there's no board meeting because
1:45:23
I'm on the road. I can't do it next week. So that's true that I
1:45:27
need to do is I'd rather go long today. And then
1:45:31
Dave Jones: that's alright, I've got I didn't get much
1:45:34
accomplished this week, I'd planned on getting the resolver
1:45:38
built for the I didn't get much of a chance to code this week.
1:45:42
But I want to get the that we need a resolver for translating
1:45:51
a key send addresses? Oh, you know, so that you can look up
1:45:57
like, David Get out b.com and convert it back to a to a note
1:46:01
Id we need that. But I want to make it where apps like cast
1:46:08
ematic can just send one request for a whole bunch of addresses,
1:46:13
you know, and like we do the resolution for it. You could you
1:46:18
could just do send off like 10 of these addresses, we would
1:46:21
resolve them back in one call. Yeah. And do the caching and all
1:46:27
that nice. Nice. I want to make that easy for everybody for
1:46:31
lists. Yeah, apps. Yeah. But before we put cuz I want to get
1:46:36
that key send address thing into the value recipient tag on June
1:46:39
1. But I don't. But I don't want to do it without giving the
1:46:44
serverless apps a fallback? Yes, as we always do. So so that's
1:46:50
the next thing on my list. And we'll talk about that. Okay,
1:46:53
I'll get it done while while you're Adam Curry: gone two weeks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry,
1:46:57
everybody. And Alex is working
1:46:59
Dave Jones: on a top secret project for us. So. Yeah. Put
1:47:06
for pod payments. Adam Curry: Do you put them under NDA? Indie. So we can't
1:47:12
talk about it. So we can't talk about it. And yeah, it'd be fun,
1:47:15
Dave Jones: but sign the document. Here, Alex on this. I
1:47:21
know what Adam Curry: you'd say sign this. Yes. I was just as I was playing
1:47:28
that song. I'm just I'm just like jamming out to the song. I
1:47:31
remember because the last episode, when you lost power at
1:47:35
the office, and I played tracks for two or three hours. That was
1:47:39
more fun. I had just because we've been talking about I've
1:47:42
been reminiscing My mind has been going back and forth in
1:47:44
history. That was more fun. For me as a music disc jockey than
1:47:51
any shift I ever did on Z 100 The biggest radio station in New
1:47:55
York at the time. In fact, I wasn't. Why because I was almost
1:47:59
it was like it was lonely. You know, you're just talking into
1:48:03
Mica. Hey, I live in New York. But there's nothing coming back.
1:48:06
There was no there was no chat room. There was no booster grams
1:48:11
there was you know, we had requests and so on the back
1:48:13
would take a request and wasn't really a request anyway. We just
1:48:17
pretend to like yeah, okay, this, this is what's next in the
1:48:20
computer. So we're playing this. Dave Jones: You don't even have Buzzsprout fan mail.
1:48:26
Adam Curry: Let's, let's thank a few people, shall we? Let's use
1:48:29
our own fan mail here. We have lots of live booths that came in
1:48:33
3438 from Billy Bones. says thank you for the boardroom
1:48:36
meetings. It makes me excited for podcasting. 2.0 Well, you're
1:48:40
welcome. And you're a part of it. Billy Bones. We're all part
1:48:42
of the Billy Graham anonymous 3333 We got Mike Dell 1701
1:48:48
hamvention booths from Dayton Ohio. 70 threes, keto eight Lima
1:48:52
Mike Juliet at the hamvention forgot all about that. Yes, 73
1:48:58
is kilo five Alpha Charlie Charlie beaconing every 15
1:49:00
minutes on bar ac 20 meters. We got the heartburn we got the 777
1:49:07
from Sam Sethi. True fans has the remote item license working
1:49:12
for example. She does for example, we have it working for
1:49:15
all phantom power music artists. We have plans to use it with
1:49:18
clips next so you grant a license for other podcasts to
1:49:21
use your audio in another podcast and get paid like music.
1:49:25
Beautiful Sam. Thank you let's let's can we can you post
1:49:31
somewhere short. Just to document how that how that
1:49:34
showed up like hub that pops up so other apps can see it. That
1:49:39
would be great. This is perfect. See, I told you I would carry
1:49:41
this it's so easy. The work is done for me. Done. Shred word
1:49:46
part of the dorsal verse 1000 SATs genuine variety and organic
1:49:50
goodness is King not perfection and sounding like everybody
1:49:53
else. We call it here in the Dorko verse Nashville called
1:49:57
when you stick to the template Amen brother
1:50:00
Dave Jones: That's right is that the is like the NAM when you're
1:50:02
Nashville Nashville sound when
1:50:05
Adam Curry: you're perfect. Last night, this is another another
1:50:09
writing on the wall. So we were going to tune in to our favorite
1:50:12
show. Cheers. We're on season nine, we're almost done.
1:50:16
Dave Jones: Oh, you're close. Adam Curry: We've been binging. And so I pop open, because you
1:50:21
know, you can get it on Paramount plus through Amazon,
1:50:25
whatever. And right at the top, oh, there's the American Country
1:50:31
Music Awards. Live on Amazon. So we pop it, you know, it's like,
1:50:35
okay. And it was just uncomfortable to watch. It was
1:50:39
so because it's so like, structured and you know, they
1:50:44
have ads, of course. And so it's all tight on a timeline. It's
1:50:48
unnatural. You know, I love Reba McIntyre. But, you know, she's
1:50:52
hosting again. And you know, and it's just, it's they're trying
1:50:56
to make this tight, tight show. And it's this, this, you know,
1:51:00
robotic, doesn't feel like podcasting where it's crazy to
1:51:04
control. Dave Jones: You know, I hear songs. Sometimes I'll ever and
1:51:09
honestly Taylor Swift's catalog is like this. You just know that
1:51:14
in five years minimum AI will be able to recreate songs this
1:51:22
dinner just exactly like that. They sound no different. They're
1:51:26
just like, like vacuous. Couldn't Adam Curry: do it already. You can do it already. And there's
1:51:30
no love. There's no soul. It's soulless. Yeah,
1:51:33
Dave Jones: there's, do you know what's, you know? What is it?
1:51:38
Well, so we've been rewatching X Files. Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. You're done with the with the musicals.
1:51:43
You're onto X Files now. Dave Jones: Now we're intermixing we're mixing it up.
1:51:48
Now. We've heard we've been watching musicals too. But do
1:51:52
you know what's great about those old shows from 80s 90s?
1:51:56
You don't see any computers anywhere?
1:52:00
Adam Curry: It's all analog. Dave Jones: That's right people people's desks have like pens
1:52:04
and paper and a phone Adam Curry: Sam Sam Malone in cheers has a little black book
1:52:11
with all those babes all those babes in it? Yes.
1:52:13
Dave Jones: All the babes so true. Adam Curry: It's awesome. Blueberry 77 777 member berry
1:52:20
booths for Dave Oh, then we had the phantom power media 10,000
1:52:26
SATs we read that one Dave tell your daughter to apply for bands
1:52:29
at Bitcoin stage in July. Good idea. Eric peepee was sent the
1:52:33
boob boost which did come through 808 CELTA Crayon 777.
1:52:39
Howdy boardroom Dave don't get me started on docking station
1:52:42
firmware. Weekly we are updating those because they are well past
1:52:45
the 12 month mark. The Thunderbolt ones are the worst
1:52:48
culprit so far job security, right go podcast and contests.
1:52:53
We love job security as a chat F with his 777 boosts and I hit
1:53:01
the delimiter There we go. Oh,
1:53:03
Dave Jones: we got a new subscriber $10 a month from
1:53:06
Timothy voice well then Adam Curry: haven't used that one in a while. You've been deep
1:53:13
fried Dave Jones: midribs kid right? Adam Curry: Yes it is.
1:53:16
Dave Jones: That's a little drip this dribbling. We got a Z
1:53:22
that's our only one off Pay Pal this week but we guess boosts
1:53:27
get Steve Wilkinson aka CG works. striper boost 7777
1:53:34
through cast ematic skillet boost. Maybe we can get a John
1:53:38
Cooper screen skillet Adam Curry: boost. That's our semi striper boost. Yes. Okay.
1:53:48
Dave Jones: We got Andrew Gromit. No 2222 Road ducks hello
1:53:52
and wherever app nice this top secret app I've
1:53:56
Adam Curry: ever tried that thing out. It's amazing. It's
1:53:59
basically wherever Yes, basically a framework of every
1:54:02
everything that we have in podcasting. 2.0 just smashed
1:54:06
into one web app. Dave Jones: We're gonna get him on the show, do you? Yes, of
1:54:10
course. Adam Curry: Of course. Of course. Andrew, you're up, bro.
1:54:15
You're up. You're on. You're gonna be on the show. I can't
1:54:17
wait to catch up with him. I can't wait. We got some we got
1:54:20
stories a bit. You hear stories that I have forgotten? No. In
1:54:23
fact, I guarantee you he has stories that I've forgotten.
1:54:26
That'll be a good one. Let's get him on.
1:54:30
Dave Jones: Okay, we got Andrew Andrews on deck. He says he says
1:54:34
this rocks heard on Podcast, episode 179.
1:54:38
Adam Curry: Yes. And Andrew Thank you. He's got everything
1:54:40
set. You know, the wherever app booths come through, and I can
1:54:45
see what song it was for and I think he I don't know that that
1:54:50
yeah, has the reply function working which is great. I love
1:54:52
that too. I love replying to boost i Every morning I come and
1:54:56
say oh, can I reply to this? Oh, can I reply and because it's
1:54:59
split Usually I'm sending people back more than I received.
1:55:05
Dave Jones: You're losing money. Adam Curry: I'm losing money on it, but I love it.
1:55:10
Dave Jones: To 237 That is the number of unread emails I have
1:55:14
in my podcast index mailbox. All Adam Curry: right, I'm plugging along, brother. I'm taking care
1:55:19
of most of them when I can. Oh, yeah. Dave Jones: I'll say Jacob J, K, ob 1234. Booths through pod
1:55:28
verse, he says, great tunes. Thank you, Jake. By
1:55:31
Adam Curry: the way, the the update ability of the dashboard.
1:55:35
Now the control dashboard is great, because now I can change
1:55:40
someone's Feed URL
1:55:43
Dave Jones: that's working for you. Yes, Adam Curry: yes. And now, if the if the feed is already in there
1:55:48
double, you have to resolve that first. I've even done a couple
1:55:51
of successful merges, which did my head and well did my head and
1:55:56
because I'm like, What's merging into what you know, like, I'm
1:56:00
merging the wrong way. Oh, restore, reset. Okay. merge them
1:56:03
back the other way. All right. There we go. Undo Ctrl Z. is
1:56:10
great. I'm able to I'm actually able to do a lot for people. So
1:56:14
I feel quite powerful with the capabilities I have.
1:56:18
Dave Jones: It will I'll continue to refine that. It's
1:56:20
still rough. Adam Curry: Give me Give me root access. Give me RM dash RF.
1:56:26
Yeah, I don't I've actually done that. No, yes. Back what own
1:56:32
what folder? Okay, back in the onramp days now. Something
1:56:35
similar. Here's what I did. Dave Jones: So wait, they get tilde dummy. Somebody in onramp
1:56:40
gave you root access to anything? Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. No, I had root access to everything. So we
1:56:45
had a son with a Unison five maybe. Spark station. Spark
1:56:51
station. Yeah. And Neuromancer was the machines name, I
1:56:55
remember it well. And so there was a ragtag, we had like one
1:57:00
client, and we were just trying to do stuff. And, and, you know,
1:57:03
I was trying to figure something out. And so I go in, and I'm on
1:57:07
the machine, right? So I have root access on the machine, that
1:57:10
I'm seeing all these errors being thrown. And I'm like,
1:57:14
well, there's something wrong here with this sh. So why don't
1:57:17
just RMS H for a second I removed the shell. Nice. was
1:57:29
interesting how we brought that back to life. That was my that
1:57:35
was my big aha moment. Oh, don't give me that access anymore. I
1:57:39
Dave Jones: used to work at an insurance brokerage in it. And
1:57:44
we ran a big as 400 system. This is a this is 1000. Person.
1:57:48
Company. Yes. 400. Man classic. Millions and millions and
1:57:53
millions of dollars of insurance premiums going through this
1:57:57
company. And then all the night everything ran as a batch job as
1:58:04
400 to print all the debt, all the premium notices and all this
1:58:07
kind of stuff. The COBOL we do in COBOL? No is RPG? Yeah, is
1:58:13
the native language on is 400. So it was said the we had a new
1:58:18
guy in it. And he he was just he just needed a job. Like he had
1:58:25
an history degree like he didn't know hardly anything about about
1:58:29
anything with computers. And they hired him. And then like a
1:58:33
week later, all the all the MIS people you know, it used to be a
1:58:37
separate department in my es mi Yes, yes. Yeah, of course, all
1:58:41
the MIS people were like, nobody wanted to stay the regular night
1:58:46
operator guy was off and none of them wanted to stay late. So
1:58:49
they're like, hey, we'll just give this this guy with a
1:58:51
history degree a crash course. There was 400 job management
1:58:56
with RPGA. Yeah, with and so they gave him a 15 minute,
1:59:00
here's a here's how you do this. You run this command, you wait
1:59:02
to this other thing happens. You run this command, and then you
1:59:05
do these things. But whatever you do, don't do this thing at
1:59:07
this time, because that'll screw everything up. And he did that
1:59:11
thing. It two o'clock in the morning. The thing was so
1:59:15
screwed. They had to just start they just had to punt and
1:59:17
restart restoring from backup. Oh no. He started running batch
1:59:21
jobs on top of each other. And deleting stuff. It was a it was
1:59:26
like a almost business ending event.
1:59:30
Adam Curry: And I'm like, what did you think was gonna happen? Fantastic. Ah, Dave, there's another podcast in here for us,
1:59:36
ma'am. Yes. tales from the trenches.
1:59:39
Dave Jones: Magnolia mayhem, do 7777 to fountain Magnolia mayhem
1:59:45
says there's already a good number of audiobooks on our set.
1:59:48
That's podcasting. Yes, there there are, that's for sure.
1:59:51
Mostly creepy pasta stuff like Tales from the gas station.
1:59:55
Several productions of Bourassa last known position etc. but
2:00:00
it's a foot in the door. I wish I could think of some non horror
2:00:03
examples. But outside of that I just have custom RSS feeds on my
2:00:06
NAS for my own audio book ribs. It's pretty easy. Yeah, either
2:00:10
way. We're already heading in that direction. Right? Oh, it is
2:00:13
creepy pasta. What does that mean?
2:00:17
Adam Curry: It's a good band name.
2:00:21
Dave Jones: Yes. Adam Curry: Not everybody with creepypasta.
2:00:26
Dave Jones: See, Jean been 2222. Hey, Jean to cast magic. He
2:00:31
says, I think Dave is right about the K God. K God feed
2:00:35
being a podcast l feed. But do any apps actually support
2:00:39
podcast l playlists? They Adam Curry: will? They will, they will. They will. Because
2:00:43
that that project will that will happen. Somehow that's going to
2:00:47
happen. Someone's going to do if it's not me, it's going to be
2:00:49
somebody's going to happen. Sam Sathya also sent me a very
2:00:52
thoughtful email with all kinds of ideas about that. I'm still
2:00:56
processing everything. He thinks that should be the publisher
2:01:00
feet. I'm thinking the podcast so I think the list is the way
2:01:02
to go. But we're working on it. We're working on it. There's
2:01:05
plenty figured out whenever we will figure it out. Of course
2:01:07
Dave Jones: do stuff, see what works, and then go yep, yep.
2:01:11
Yep, comic strip blogger, the delimiter. Here we go. 23,000
2:01:15
SAS through fountain CSB says, howdy, David Adam. I'd like to
2:01:21
recommend a podcast about important things in life,
2:01:24
literal quote from the last episode. Quote, I am so happy
2:01:29
with my new exercise regime, also called having a job. I
2:01:33
don't know if I'll let you know if I can see my junk in the
2:01:37
shower someday. Unquote. Said Ryan bemrose. The delivery
2:01:42
driver for Amazon's subcontractor from Seattle other
2:01:45
co host is some unemployed Irish guy called Darren or Darren from
2:01:50
a shoe rack Wars era. Check it out at www dot grumpy old Ben's
2:01:57
dot com comma yo CSB. So
2:02:01
Adam Curry: Devora divorce. Darren O'Neill always does the
2:02:04
Rock and Roll pre show complete copyright violation before every
2:02:09
it's the copyright or copyright violation show before every no
2:02:12
agenda live show. And John was ragging on him. He says Darrell,
2:02:16
I'm like Wow, man. The guy has been doing this for years and
2:02:19
you still know his name. You call him Darryl now instead of
2:02:22
Darren. So that's what I think we should just in the knife that
2:02:25
we should play commerce or bloggers jingle. We haven't
2:02:28
played that in a while. Yeah, do it hit a Unknown: comic strip.
2:02:33
Dave Jones: Comic Strip, Unknown: Comic Strip, strip.
2:02:38
Comic Strip. Comics jam comic strip.
2:02:44
Adam Curry: Classic has been around for 15 years that that
2:02:47
jingle probably gets
2:02:50
Dave Jones: the monthlies. Alright Terry Terry killer $5
2:02:53
Thank you, Terry. Silicone florist. $10 Chris cow and $5
2:02:59
Damon Cazal Jack $15. Yarn, Rosenstein. $1 Derek J. Vickery,
2:03:04
the best name and podcasting. $21. Jeremy gerdts. $5. Michael
2:03:08
Hall $5.50. and New Media projections. That's Todd and Rob
2:03:13
$30. Go Adam Curry: thank you all very much. You know, I read somewhere
2:03:17
I think tally coin. Did they shut down the tally coin shut
2:03:20
down? Dave Jones: No. Adam Curry: You wouldn't know because nothing ever comes in
2:03:25
through tally coin. So we wouldn't know. That's right.
2:03:29
Dave Jones: If a tree falls in the woods, nobody's around to
2:03:31
hear it. And Adam Curry: we'll tally coin have a receipt. Nope. They
2:03:33
won't. Hey, good board meeting everybody. I feel like we we fix
2:03:39
the we saw a lot of stuff once again. That's a board did you
2:03:42
who's doing the meeting minutes? Dave Jones: Somebody's got it. Somebody's
2:03:47
Adam Curry: got it. My Dave Jones: name. And Mike's got it. Adam Curry: Yeah. All right. Brother. Have a great weekend.
2:03:52
Dave. Dave Jones: Yeah. Have a good trip to Nashville. Yes.
2:03:55
Adam Curry: Yes. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it's going to be a lot of fun. Okay. boardroom Thank you very much for being
2:03:59
here. Once again. We'll be back in two weeks for another
2:04:04
probably extended edition of the podcasting 2.0 podcast See you
2:04:07
then everybody. Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts
2:04:29
index.org. For more information, go podcast.
2:04:34
Adam Curry: Podcasting Dave Jones: is the anti monopoly
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