0:00

It's Friday, the 16th of June 2023.

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The last word in podcasting news.

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This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Suthey.

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I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News in Hayes in London.

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And I'm Sky Pillsbury. I am the creator of the Squeeze newsletter here in California.

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In the chapters today. Spotify ad analytics has been launched, rsscom has launched a thing called PodViz, and Apple might be killing value for value.

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This podcast is sponsored and hosted by Buzzsprout.

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Last week, 3,189 people started a podcast with Buzzsprout.

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Podcast hosting made easy with powerful tools and remarkable customer support, and now AI to help you publish your show.

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and by Pod News Live in London this September.

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Tickets at podnewsnet slash live.

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From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly Review.

1:00

Sky Pillsbury is in for Sam Suthey, who is recovering from Pod News Live earlier this week.

1:05

Actually, i believe he's going to watch a Shakespeare play, which is very fancy Yeah, which is good.

1:12

So welcome along, sky Pillsbury.

1:13

Well thank you so much.

1:15

So thrilled to have you Tell folks who, if there's anybody that doesn't know about the Squeeze, tell folks what the Squeeze is all about.

1:23

I will, but first I just wanted to thank you for having me on the show, james.

1:27

I'm thrilled to be here. This is a lot of fun already And about the Squeeze it's a newsletter I started just about a year ago actually.

1:36

I realized that the other day And what I do is take a look at the audio industry for people who work within it, so hopefully a lot of the people listening to this might find that interesting.

1:46

My latest story is part of a series that I'm running on WNYC, which produces a lot of podcasts that people listening to this may have heard of The New York Radio Hour Death, sex and Money a lot of beloved shows And I'm taking a deep dive in looking at what's, what has been the evolution of WNYC and where do things stand now.

2:11

They've had a lot of turnover.

2:13

There are actually a lot of people managing that station who have no radio experience, if you can believe that.

2:18

So I'm taking a look at sort of what the impact of all of that has been.

2:22

Yeah, and it's a great read as well and very much enjoying it.

2:27

There's a there's a TV show in Australia which is called Media Watch, which is essentially a guy basically looking into the media and looking into when they screw things up and everything else, and the catchphrase for that is everybody likes it until they're in it, and I wonder whether that might be the catchphrase for the Squeeze.

2:47

Who knows?

2:49

Yeah, yeah, i can relate to that.

2:51

Yeah, it's, it can be a tough go in this industry sometimes.

2:55

Yeah, yeah, well, exactly, and this industry needs some really good reporting such as that.

3:01

So that's super good. Tell me, where do I subscribe to the Squeeze?

3:06

You can find it on the Substack website.

3:09

So wwwsubstackcom.

3:12

Forward slash. This is the Squeeze, and you can subscribe right there and check out my archives.

3:18

My main newsletter is totally free, so you can come and read the bulk of my reporting, and then there's some fun extras If you decide you want to become a paid subscriber.

3:31

So you can check all of that out on the website.

3:33

Excellent.

3:35

Well, shall we kick off for this week? Let's do it.

3:39

Spotify has just announced Spotify at Analytics.

3:42

It's a free measurement, attribution and brand lift tool.

3:46

It uses first party data and the Spotify Pixel.

3:51

It allows advertisers to understand if consumers heard an ad and then took an action.

3:56

That seems like maybe the most important thing to know, and works for music and podcast advertising on and off the Spotify platform.

4:04

There are more details on the product's website.

4:07

James, help us understand why this is important.

4:11

This is important.

4:11

Well, this is basically a pod site, as was.

4:15

So they bought pod sites a year or so ago And this is pod sites on steroids.

4:21

Basically, they seem to have added a bunch of different features And what's really interesting to me is that it's not just available to podcast advertisers on the Spotify platform.

4:35

It's also available to people that aren't advertising the Spotify at all and not using Spotify at all, and it's completely free, which is interesting.

4:44

I guess that Spotify get to keep the data, i guess so that they can see how all of that works.

4:52

But yeah, i thought it was a really interesting move from them, clearly what that means for other podcast attribution tools.

5:00

Who knows?

5:02

Yeah, i mean, obviously, from the advertiser perspective, it's really helpful to have that information.

5:06

Of course, my brain also goes to it's a little bit creepy, but Well, yeah, i guess that's where we are with online advertising these days.

5:14

Right, it's not like that isn't happening already on a lot of consumer commerce websites and things like that.

5:21

Yeah, I think my understanding of it is if you listen to a podcast, it works out what your IP address is and what sort of device you're using, And then there's a thing called the Spotify Pixel which is put onto your website if you're an advertiser, and then that pixel spots you if you come and have a look at that website.

5:45

So it knows that you've listened to the ad.

5:47

It then knows if you've come to the website or maybe bought a product or whatever it ends up being.

5:54

I'm always sort of slightly nervous about that sort of thing from a data protection point of view.

6:00

It's one of the reasons why I don't have any third party embedded stuff on the Pod News website, because nobody wants that.

6:08

Ah, good move. But I think one of the things of course that Spotify is going to learn is it's going to learn what the big shows are off the Spotify platform.

6:16

Clearly, they know some of that with the megaphone platform that they have, but they can probably find out a little bit more about other shows if people start using that particular tool.

6:29

Bigger and bigger player. And data, that's for sure. Oh yes, absolutely.

6:33

It's not the only thing that Spotify has done this week, is it?

6:37

No. Spotify has also announced that it's selling its music and podcast creation tool, soundtrap, back to its original founders.

6:45

No terms were given. That's pretty unusual, anything.

6:49

Do you know anything else about that, james?

6:51

Yeah, it is pretty unusual, isn't it? They've done that once before with some other products that they bought and then they thought, well, we don't really need it.

6:58

But I think what's interesting about this one is that they spent quite some time making it better, and Soundtrap, if you remember, back a couple of years ago, was actually promoted as a way that you could edit and record your podcast, so they were actually doing it like that a few years ago.

7:16

They've completely stopped promoting it, but, yes, i wonder whether Spotify have made a profit.

7:24

Yeah, i wonder do you remember what they paid for it?

7:27

I can't pull that up out of my brain.

7:29

They got a $6 million funding round in 2016.

7:33

And that was a year before the acquisition, which was in October 2017, therefore, i'm guessing.

7:39

So, yeah, so one would assume that Spotify is at least looking for that sort of amount of money.

7:47

Yeah, exactly, but yeah, really interesting to end up seeing.

7:51

But it's a fancy multi-track recorder that does music, obviously, and podcasts as well.

7:57

So, yeah, so interesting, because you used to write for inside podcasting.

8:04

Yes, yeah.

8:06

I'm sure I did write about this, but it was so long ago now.

8:10

When did I write for inside podcasting?

8:13

Did I start in? I can't even remember 2017?

8:18

.

8:19

The OG. I am the OG, the OG editor of it. Yes, that's right.

8:21

Yes, the original, the original one I think I started in it was either 2017 or 2018, how embarrassing that I can't even remember.

8:30

And then I wrote until really until maybe six months past the start of the pandemic, so like fall of 2020.

8:39

I was finishing up the second season of the Inside Podcasting podcast if there are any OG listeners out there in which I interviewed podcast creators about their craft, and when the pandemic hit and I knew that my kids were not going to be in school in the fall of 2020, i said I've got to finish this podcast and finish up writing this newsletter and hand over the reins to someone else.

9:02

But I probably did write about this. It does sound familiar, yeah, yeah.

9:07

No, it's a good thing still going, although I believe that other podcast newsletters are available.

9:13

Yes.

9:14

Spotify. Spotify also.

9:16

They're doing quite a lot of interesting things.

9:20

They're doing a masterclass, aren't they?

9:22

Yes, they're doing a masterclass on quote unlocking your podcast potential.

9:27

One of the speakers is Maya and I'm probably going to mess this up Maya Prohovnik Prohovnik.

9:34

She is the VP of podcast product at Spotify, as well as Jordan Newman, spotify's head of podcast partner management, and Gail Eitor from Teenager Therapy.

9:47

They're going to be running the masterclass and that sounds pretty interesting.

9:51

I wonder what they're going to be saying. Are the major drivers of unlocking your podcast potential?

9:55

Any ideas? James Indeed.

9:57

I've got absolutely no idea, and they ran it on Wednesday And I believe it's up on the website as of now, so we can all find out ourselves.

10:09

I think it's interesting that Maya Prohovnik all of a sudden is getting a bit more public.

10:13

So I was sent something the other day from someone at Spotify saying did you know that Maya Prohovnik has a podcast that she is doing herself with her, i think, husband, partner?

10:31

No, kidding, what's that?

10:32

What's the topic?

10:33

The topic is I think it's something to do with becoming a parent for the first time.

10:39

So yeah, so very different, but I find it interesting that they are pushing Maya, as a person, to watch.

10:49

That is interesting, given how much turnover they've had in the podcast division over there.

10:54

They've let go of so much of the I guess old guard at this point And Maya must be new guard.

11:02

I wonder if I have an email from her as well.

11:05

I've been so heads down writing my my my upcoming newsletter issue that I haven't had a chance to check.

11:12

But that is that's fascinating. She certainly has a lot on her plate over there in Spotify podcast, so looking forward to seeing more from her And maybe I'll check out that podcast, although it sounds like maybe her kids are much younger than mine.

11:25

If her podcast is about having a child for the first time, my oldest is 17.

11:30

Oh wow, So we're moving into having adult children territory.

11:34

Yeah, that sounds terrifying. My, my, i have a 10 year old and and so I'm moving into into teenager territory.

11:43

So that's going to be. Oh yeah, hold on, hold on tight.

11:46

Yeah, that's going to be a little bit terrifying One.

11:50

one more little bit of news about Spotify in Asia.

11:54

Yes, so Spotify apparently isn't monetizing its podcast inventory in Asia at the moment.

12:01

This is a claim from Audacia CEO Kim Treasurer.

12:06

She wrote an article for campaign which contains many positive stats and quotes from the industry in Asia, but this one sounds a little.

12:15

a little less positive perhaps.

12:17

It's interesting to see. I've got a case study, which you'll have seen in Thursday's newsletter, for a letter from a cast talking about their a big thing that they were doing in the Philippines.

12:30

So clearly a cast is making money in in APAC, but yeah, the the the suggestion here is that Spotify isn't yet doing that, which I find interesting.

12:44

Normally, Spotify are very keen to very quickly jump on anything that I say, which isn't true, Yes, And they, and they haven't done that.

12:53

So, um, Oh, interesting.

12:55

Yes, The I that actually rings the bell for me.

12:58

I feel like I saw something recently where where you had said something and then Spotify came in and wanted you to get it right.

13:04

Oh yes.

13:05

What was that? What am I? what am I? I'm spacing.

13:09

Point out my mistakes. Why don't you? I don't know, I can't, I can't remember.

13:13

Let's just cut that all out, cut that piece up with that, but just off the record, not even, not even part of this, like no, it was entertaining to me because it was like it was clearly Spotify, like worried about something.

13:27

Like it wasn't that you had reported anything. That wasn't correct.

13:30

Yeah.

13:30

It was more like the positioning of it.

13:32

They weren't happy about it, or something.

13:34

Yeah, exactly Shoot.

13:35

I can't remember.

13:36

Maybe it was a while back, but Oh, and they've got, they've got an awful lot of press, of press focus, you will know.

13:41

So, uh, yeah, it's always interesting knowing exactly who, uh, you know when, when.

13:46

I always find it interesting asking somebody for a quote at Spotify, because it's always a different person every time, So it's always quite fun.

13:55

Well, and I have to say, for me they're not very responsive.

13:57

I mean, i can't blame them, given the kinds of stories that I tend to write, but I am.

14:02

I find it's really hard.

14:04

I mean, i've had better luck, obviously, reaching people at Gimlet.

14:07

I have relationships there, but, um, you know Gimlet, which doesn't really technically exist anymore, i guess, but I have had a really tough time, uh, with Spotify.

14:16

So the fact that you're actually getting a response, james, i think says a lot.

14:19

Oh well, yeah, Well, maybe, maybe, yeah, it's interesting about Gimlet and Parkast.

14:24

They, they, so the the businesses are merging, aren't they, into Spotify studios?

14:29

Being absorbed. It said something like that in the in the in the memo.

14:33

Do we?

14:34

know whether or not the brand is actually going away Are will you no longer see Gimlet or Parkast on the show It's my, my suspicion is we'll probably still see that.

14:44

Yeah, i don't know, um, you know I according to, like, the Gimlet union.

14:50

Uh, you probably saw they put out a tweet saying as of today, gimlet is no more.

14:56

I can't remember if they said the same thing about Parkast.

14:58

Yeah, um, so that made me sort of immediately think like that the brand was going to be absorbed as well, i think.

15:06

I think it's probably.

15:08

If they're, if they're not going to keep those organizations separate and they're going to be creating, you know just, they're going to be merging sort of like their own content you know, spotify studio content with Parkast and Gimlet.

15:21

I mean, how, even if they keep the brands for a little while, does it really make sense to do that?

15:26

in the longterm? It might just confuse, you know, new listeners.

15:30

So I wouldn't be surprised if, in the longer term, those just become Spotify podcasts.

15:37

I don't really see what the benefit is at this point, given the fact that if anyone Googles Gimlet or Parkast, they're going to see all this baggage, you know acquired and layoffs and this and that Like.

15:48

Why do that? Why not just absorb them into Spotify?

15:51

It makes me, i mean, i'm heartbroken over it, of course.

15:54

Yeah.

15:56

But they're, you know, with that, with 200 people being laid off, I mean, who's left?

16:01

Well, yeah, exactly, Because if you count up the amount of people that worked at Spotify and at Gimlet, you got to about 200 people.

16:09

So I always found that, yeah, a little bit strange.

16:14

Anyway there we go, there we go.

16:17

Indeed, it remains to be seen. Let's move on from Spotify, because we have other stories, do we not?

16:23

Yes, we do. Before we actually started recording.

16:25

You were telling me a little bit about how you had a networking event earlier this week in Media City, uk in Salford earlier this week.

16:36

Wait, let me do that again.

16:37

And it's Salford Not.

16:38

Salford. Ok, say it again Salford, salford, salford.

16:41

Am I saying Salford? Yeah, do I say the R Yeah?

16:47

Salford That's an American. That's really weird.

16:49

Salford, yes.

16:51

I'll say it with a British accent. That's right, why not?

16:53

It was held at Media City UK in Salford, or said in a British accent, which you did a moment ago, salford earlier this week.

17:04

I do a terrible British accent.

17:07

That's a terrible British accent. Sounds like the Queen.

17:09

Hey, I'll take that as a compliment.

17:14

Your next event is in London on September 27.

17:18

But, first tell us how your event was that you just had And yeah, let's start with that How was the event that you had earlier this week?

17:26

It was really good. actually, it was really good. It's been absolutely blisteringly hot in the UK this week.

17:31

I think it went up to now.

17:34

here you go, see, i'm going to say it went up to 29, and that sounds very cold obviously.

17:40

So what's that in American?

17:42

84. Yeah, so incredibly hot, which has been very nice actually, and we had a good amount of people who came and there was a lot of show and tell.

17:55

That's the theory behind these events, and then either Sam or I jump on stage and interview the folks afterwards.

18:05

I was trying to understand how much one of the people pays its producers and didn't get much of an answer.

18:15

That was quite funny, but yeah, no, it was a really good event, so thoroughly enjoyed that.

18:20

The next one that we're doing is in London, as you say, on September the 27th It's the day before the British Podcast Awards.

18:28

Oh, perfect.

18:29

So if you're making your way to London. Then just make your way to London a day earlier and come to the networking event that we're running there, an easy add-on.

18:38

We've got some super good speakers as well.

18:41

Can you tell us any of them? Well, i can tell you.

18:44

I think I can tell you that we've got the big boss of A-Cast, ross Adams, and so super looking forward to that, and we're hoping for another very big name, but I don't want to jinx it by mentioning who it is.

19:02

So yeah, that sounds very intriguing.

19:06

I wish I was going to be in London on September 27.

19:09

So where can people get tickets for the event, James?

19:13

I'm glad you asked. They can get tickets at podnewsnet slash live.

19:18

It's going to be held in Old Television Center, so in White City, where all of the TV used to be made and where I once used to walk around the corridors at work.

19:31

Wow, Really looking forward to.

19:34

Do you work in television, James?

19:36

I used to work for the BBC.

19:38

That I did now actually.

19:40

For two years, but I'm cured, now Recovered.

19:44

Yeah, super, super, looking forward to that.

19:46

It's now a Soho house And, yes, we're holding it there, so come along, get your tickets.

19:53

Podnewsnet, slash live And we'll see you there on September the 27th.

19:57

So for some more news, podcast hosting company rsscom has launched PodViz.

20:04

It's an in-house visualization tool to produce videos from audio podcasts for services like YouTube.

20:10

The service supports chapter art and YouTube metadata.

20:15

I don't, so what do you think about YouTube videos and all that for podcasts?

20:20

I've heard you talk about it before. Oh yes, What are your thoughts?

20:24

As you know well. I mean, let's start with my thoughts on this rsscom tool.

20:29

It's a very smart tool. If you want to upload your podcast onto YouTube and you want to reach folk there, then this does a very nice job.

20:37

I think it is the only one that does chapter art.

20:40

It supports, by the way, it supports podcasting 2.0 chapter art, so it's the fancy one, and it converts that into the video and everything else and does all of the YouTube metadata so that the chapters still exist in the YouTube player.

20:55

So all of that is very, very smart, and you don't need to be with rsscom to use it.

20:59

If you host with somebody else maybe you host with our sponsor, buzzsprout then you can still use this rsscom slash podviz.

21:07

That's V-I-Z or V-I-Z if you want to pronounce that more correctly, anyway, so that's pretty good.

21:15

What do you think of YouTube, though, getting into the podcasting world?

21:20

You know, i mean, i guess it's fine, it's fine.

21:26

Yeah.

21:29

I'm just fine with it. You know, i just have I feel so old school or slash old when I say this.

21:36

but to me, the magic of a podcast is that you're listening to it and not looking at it.

21:42

Yeah, and so the I guess it's really just a semantic frustration for me, and that I feel like a YouTube video is a video, it's not a podcast.

21:52

But you know, i know that you know, a lot of podcasters are having a lot of great success, you know finding, you know new, you know bringing new people into their funnel, so to speak, and that's important.

22:02

I certainly wouldn't want that to, you know, to not happen.

22:05

But at the same time, you know, i feel like, you know, the priority should be making something that sounds great.

22:12

But that's just my own, my own preference.

22:15

And you know, when I talk to my kids, who I mentioned earlier, i have actually two teenagers in the house, one's 14, one 17.

22:22

They very rarely listen to podcasts unless they're with me in the car and I've trapped them, yeah, and most of the time they're watching on YouTube.

22:31

So you know, i have to give that some respect.

22:35

I have to honor the fact that that is happening and not pretend that it's not.

22:39

You know.

22:40

Yeah, yeah, no, indeed, and I think there was some data that came out from the Reuters Institute in Wednesday's pod news about the number one podcast platforms in various countries for news podcasts And weirdly, youtube ended up being number one in the US, spotify number one pretty well everywhere else, and I'm just there.

23:03

I don't necessarily see that in the numbers.

23:07

Yes, i heard you talking about this the other day on the show And it seems really surprising to me too, like where are they getting those numbers?

23:14

And you know, we know that numbers can get ginned up as well.

23:17

We've heard that quite a bit in on YouTube and other platforms, so you know, who knows?

23:25

I don't see the numbers either. I think you said something like I'm not seeing the numbers and I don't know any other podcasters who are seeing those numbers, but maybe they still exist.

23:33

And yeah, i had the same, i am having the same experience.

23:38

Yeah, Yeah, no, indeed. Well, it's worth a go anyway, It's a free service from our friends at rsscom, And I should say that I'm an advisor to RSS.

23:49

Sam edits the script for this very show.

23:54

He's very exercised about this next story all about Apple.

24:01

What's the what's the story? sky.

24:03

So the big story is that Apple has stopped micropayments.

24:06

Damus, a Nostar app on iOS, has had to remove the zap button on post because this is considered quote selling digital content by Apple.

24:15

Yeah, so what's the deal?

24:17

with this James.

24:18

Well. So Sam is very upset and has left lots of, lots of notes, which he's highlighted in bright orange in here, but the implications are.

24:29

So Damus is is a chat app, but the way that Nostar works is that you can zap someone if you really like what they have said, and by zapping somebody, you are giving them a very small amount of money in the form of sats, in the form of, you know, very small amounts of Bitcoin And and, of course, tim Apple has gone.

24:50

Hang on a minute. Normally I get 30% of all of the money that goes through all of these apps, so I'd like 30% of the money from this, please.

25:00

And Damus is you know the folks behind the Damus app, you know understandably slightly aggrieved, but Sam points out that apps like fountain, like podfriend, like other apps that are using value for value for podcasting 2.0, payments with boostergrams and all of that streaming sats stuff Those are all doing much the same sort of thing.

25:27

So this potentially means that those may be whisked off the the Apple App Store as well, which is slightly scary.

25:37

Sam then adds a hashtag gaslighting hashtag, gatekeeper hashtag, anti competitive.

25:44

It's clearly very upset about this.

25:46

Yes, he's very worked up and it does seem a bit draconian to be doing something like this, but at the same time I I guess this is their policy right, but it does it.

25:56

I can see why he is upset.

25:58

Yeah, i guess it is their policy And I guess I'm surprised that they haven't been upholding their policy until now with these sorts of apps.

26:07

But what I would also say is, of course, you know, there's the PayPal app, there's your banking app, there's, you know, venmo.

26:15

Apple doesn't ask for 30% of all of the money for those apps, and isn't this?

26:22

the sort of a good point. Yeah, so that's not about it that way.

26:25

Isn't this the same as a PayPal app or a Venmo app or everything else?

26:29

So I think it's going to be interesting to see whether Damus does a good job of you know, of appealing this and fighting back, Because it could be, it could be quite bad for you know, for podcasting.

26:46

That said, of course, Apple has recently enabled PWAs, which is a way of using a website as if it's an app anyway, And so perhaps this will just hasten the use of those.

27:00

So who knows?

27:02

But anyway, Yeah, whatever the way forward is, hopefully they will just.

27:06

This will help them make decisions that are clear for everyone, so that it's not so that no one is confused and and sort of at the last minute, you know, finding out this information and and with no warning, that's probably part of what's most frustrating.

27:22

Well, yeah, indeed, they've got basically two weeks to get that payment stuff out of their app, otherwise it'll be taken out of the app store entirely.

27:33

So you can well understand that people are a little bit upset about that.

27:37

Most definitely, hey, podcast advertising works.

27:40

Sky, no kidding.

27:42

Are you kidding? I am just I'm just learning this to.

27:45

Apparently, according to Edison Research, 46% of weekly podcast listeners have bought a product or service because they heard a podcast ad for it.

27:57

That is not not incredible news to you and me, but hopefully it is reaching the ears of people who need to hear it.

28:06

That data is actually up quite a bit from 34% in Q1 of 2020.

28:14

Yeah, and I when I was writing this up, i was there thinking well, that means that podcast ads are more effective, right?

28:21

And then I thought, no, it just means that people have listened to podcasts for longer And so therefore they're more likely to have bought something, i guess.

28:30

Oh, yes, because it's it's. these have ever bought a product or service?

28:34

And I have a.

28:37

I have a bit of a thing about research that asks have you ever done something?

28:41

Because I'm there going. yeah, i mean I've.

28:44

I've once stood on a on a Lego brick, in in their feet That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to do that again.

28:51

You know what I mean.

28:52

Yes, that's right. It's not a cumulative like have you has, have you done it even more and more as time has gone by.

28:59

It's just have you ever done it, and then that's that one sort of sunk cost and it lasts forever.

29:04

So have you, james, bought something that you've heard in an ad on a podcast?

29:11

I mean, i guess I probably have, because I've heard an awful lot of ads.

29:14

Yes, have I bought them?

29:16

Have I bought something specifically because I heard I don't know, i think maybe.

29:21

Yeah, i think maybe I was listening to ATP once and and they were talking so excitedly about hover for for website domain names that I went to hover, so yeah, so maybe I have.

29:36

Yeah, well, there you go, You can you can, you can.

29:38

You can chalk me down in terms of that, and Triton is going to make it easier for people to buy all kinds of advertising in the future.

29:45

Yes, it's letting advertisers book ads on broadcast radio and streaming alongside podcasts.

29:51

Apparently, the company claims it as an industry first.

29:55

Broadcast radio inventory includes iHeart medias 850 plus stations and will shortly add 3,400 plus stations represented by Katz media.

30:05

The company suggests that making advertising easier to buy will benefit all parts of the industry.

30:11

Is this an industry first, james?

30:13

Do you know?

30:15

Yeah, i don't know whether it's necessarily an industry.

30:17

First, i have a feeling that there's a system called Jet in the UK which I think is doing much the same sort of thing, but I wonder whether or not lots of people are going to be buying ads on broadcast radio as a result, and I wonder whether or not it's just broadcast radio wanting a little bit of the halo effect from podcast advertising.

30:41

Obviously, podcast advertising is increasing an awful lot at the moment.

30:44

I think it was up by 26% last year, or maybe it was even 29%, whereas you have a look at broadcast radio and that is most certainly not up by 26%.

30:56

So maybe it's iHeart going.

30:59

Yeah, this is another way of getting our product in front of ad buyers, and Katz media is huge.

31:06

It represents pretty well the rest of the industry.

31:09

So maybe it's a dying medium going.

31:13

We need to be able for people to buy our stuff in other places.

31:20

I don't know, but yeah, interesting.

31:23

I think it's definitely a smart move And actually, to be honest with you, i'm surprised that, i mean, this makes it sound like that wasn't possible before, like it just seems so, like in some ways it seems like, yeah, of course you should be able to buy both.

31:33

You know, check both of those boxes when you're making an ad buy.

31:36

But in any event, it sounds like the right thing to do, i agree.

31:41

I think it probably is going to give terrestrial radio a bit of a, you know, some kind of a bounce or halo effect, whatever you want to call it.

31:52

So I think that's a good thing.

31:53

So some news around the world. James in Saudi Arabia, spotify more news from Spotify is running a gaming podcast PodCamp in Saudi Arabia.

32:04

The company is working with Kearnyng Cultures and Gamers 8.

32:08

I haven't heard of any of those companies.

32:10

Saudi Arabia's a fascinating market, as a lot of the Arab markets are in terms of podcasting real growth going on And I find it interesting that Spotify is very much getting behind specific content in this way in the country.

32:29

So Kearnyng Cultures is a podcast production company.

32:35

that's quite a few of the Arab but speaking nations.

32:40

So, yeah, i find that interesting that Spotify is doing that.

32:44

you know, work with creators.

32:48

I mean, i was at a big event in Germany that Spotify was running as well, so you know, you can very clearly see that they are doing a little bit of this stuff.

32:58

So that was interesting spotting.

33:00

And in Australia, the Infinite Dial 2023 Australia it's the gold standard of data, including podcast consumption data.

33:10

That's going to come out on June the 27th, that is.

33:14

You'll be able to watch that on a webinar, probably on June the 26th in the US, june the 27th in Australia.

33:23

Hello TimeZones And it will give us a new number for how many people listen to podcasts in Australia.

33:32

It would be nice if Australia beat the US, but not sure whether that's going to happen.

33:37

Time will tell The tech stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review.

33:42

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter.

33:46

Here's where we do all of the tech talk.

33:48

Good Luck, Sky. Let's start with news about 3D sound.

33:54

Ah yes, Noiser is to launch 3D sound across the company's podcast network.

33:59

The company uses 3D sound to describe binaural sound, a recording technique that works on any player or headphones.

34:07

Oh, I like binaural sound. It makes things sound, so 3D.

34:12

Yeah, yeah, and it works. Binaural sound is nice because it works on pretty well anything And it works through Apple podcasts and you know Google podcasts and Spotify and everything else.

34:21

There is Dolby Atmos, which is much more complicated, which basically doesn't, and that's the surround sound stuff.

34:29

Do you think that people care that much about?

34:32

you know audio quality and audio sound.

34:37

You know, I think that it depends on the type of podcast you're listening to, potentially.

34:42

But if you're putting together, say like a fiction podcast or you know something where really feeling that sense of multidimensional sound can make a difference, I don't know that it's a reason to not listen to a podcast if they don't have it, if you're really interested in whatever their, whatever the content is.

35:02

But I do think that once you've experienced it it's pretty incredible and you might get hooked and then start looking for more stuff.

35:10

So if Noiser is going to be doing this across their network of podcasts, maybe they feel like that will give them some kind of an edge.

35:18

Yeah, I think it's probably an interesting thing.

35:20

I know that in terms of Dolby Atmos.

35:23

I think Q-Code has done a bit of work with that.

35:26

I think Wondery as well. I think the Wondery app supports that as well, but that's good.

35:32

It's time for a drink, because we're going to be mentioning AI.

35:39

Do you do a drink? Is there?

35:41

a drinking game 7.30 am in the morning for me here, but I'll take a drink.

35:46

Snippid has launched a chat GBT-powered feature that automatically summarizes the key points from podcasts you listen to.

35:56

You can join the waitlist on the Snippid website.

35:59

By the way it's spelled S-N-I-P-D.

36:02

So how do you feel about this chat GBT-powered feature, james?

36:08

Yeah, I'm always slightly nervous about stuff that takes things that creators have done and messes about with it, as this feature clearly does.

36:18

What happens if chat GBT gets the wrong end of the stick?

36:22

I never quite know who's responsible then, So I'm never quite sure about it.

36:31

But it's the only use currently that I'm giving AI when I'm writing the daily newsletter is that occasionally I will copy and paste a long press release.

36:45

This will as a former person who worked in PR Sky, you will hate this, But I will copy and paste a press release into Google Bard and say please tell me what this press release is about in just two sentences.

37:02

I think that's brilliant, james.

37:05

I don't hate it at all. In fact, when I was a publicist, my very first job I just have to mention this, my very first job was at a PR firm, and they're like quote unquote.

37:17

Secret sauce, they felt, was that at the top of their press releases they would have sort of a literal like box, like a square box on the first page, and within that square box they had two sentences that summarize the entire press release, and I really think it did help for them like get the point across.

37:34

It was like an easy way for journalists to just like get the information and move on, and so the fact that you're now using chat GBT to do it, i actually think is a brilliant thing.

37:44

I mean that's the perfect use for something like that Absolutely And that's the best way to get it wrong.

37:48

So you sort of have to understand, you have to make sure that they're actually getting it right.

37:52

But which is always the thing that for me and AI and chat GBT, all this stuff seems a little wobbly Like, are they going to get it right?

38:00

But as long as you know and James, you're very intelligent, i'm sure you understand the meaning of press releases with a quick skim So as long as you know that, then I think you're safe.

38:09

And I'm supportive. Well, it depends. It depends Some of the press releases I get.

38:13

I simply do understand them. So, yeah, and sometimes the press releases say one thing and mean another.

38:21

So overhaul FM is a new podcast app that came out last week.

38:25

The press release says no ads, says it curates its featured podcasts, but then in the next paragraph literally the next paragraph says that if you're a podcaster, you can pay $89 or more to advertise your podcast as a feature within the app.

38:43

So it's not curated at all. No, and it's also pretty, pretty rubbish.

38:48

It doesn't play the pod clock app testing podcast that that we've put out there.

38:54

It doesn't support episode images.

38:57

One kind of wonders why they, why they've bothered?

39:00

basically because it's clearly a podcast that doesn't work very well.

39:04

Yeah, I wonder who's behind this. It sounds a little janky and.

39:09

I would suspect it's like one person who's behind it And yeah, and they don't know much about the whole podcast landscape, But yeah so yeah.

39:20

So anyway, so that's, that's a new podcast that that you can, that you can happily ignore.

39:27

It seems to use the Apple, the Apple data, and the very clever Nathan Gathwright is doing something smart, isn't?

39:35

it. Yes, he's working on a transcription service to produce word by word Jason transcripts.

39:40

We all need more transcripts, so this sounds like a good thing, right.

39:43

Yeah, it's always good to see more transcription tools out there.

39:48

I believe that it's going to be on transcribefm, which he said surprisingly wasn't taken.

39:54

It wasn't taken, nathan, becausefm is really expensive, because there's a nice man called George and George will sell thosefm's to people.

40:03

But, yeah, so so that should be.

40:07

That should be really good. And it does remind me that Nathan, who I think listens to the show, did actually write some code for me which came in a busy week for me, which I then ignored, and I've got no idea where that code is now to do some word by word, jason, stuff for this very show and for others as well, so I should probably Nathan, resend the code.

40:29

Yes, yes, i think it's somewhere on MasterDawn, but who knows?

40:33

Let's have a quick look at some upcoming events.

40:36

Podcast movement, of course, happening in Denver between October the 21st and the 24th, which should be fun.

40:42

The first set of speakers has been announced.

40:44

I am going. I like moderating panels, otherwise I'm not speaking.

40:49

So if you're running a panel and you need a white middle aged man, then great, go for it.

40:56

That should be a winning plan.

41:00

I think that's a great idea.

41:01

Yeah, yeah, because because you know, let's face it, there's not enough of those And a couple of big events obviously coming on in September.

41:09

There's pod news live, which is towards the end of September in London on the 27th, pod news dot net slash live for those tickets.

41:18

The British podcast awards on September the 28th, which I think there might be a coupon code for for you to get money off those.

41:26

I should go and check that, but that should be good.

41:30

There's a thing called the independent podcast awards, which will be held in London on October the 12th.

41:38

What do you think of a independent podcast awards?

41:42

Well, i'd love to know what they mean by independent first off.

41:45

You know, are these, you know who's who's behind them?

41:48

I, i. This is the first I've heard of them.

41:51

Oh well, it's two companies, one called why now, and one called verbal diorama.

41:56

Wow.

41:57

That's quite a name, yeah, yeah.

42:00

Yeah, purple, purple diorama Yes, and they define independent podcasters as being podcasters that don't have the financial backing of brands to support them.

42:15

It's going to get tricky because there are podcasters who are sort of hybrids.

42:19

There are podcasters who get a fund, you know, get funding by you know.

42:23

I just know that many times when I've tried to really be clear about like okay, this is what an indie podcaster is, i wonder how strict they're going to be, because there's there's a lot of gray areas in terms of how podcasters fund their creations?

42:38

Yeah, Exactly.

42:41

I mean there was. there was one in India, I think it might have been the ambies, where one of the nominations for the indie podcast award was a show from my heart, which I'm not sure necessarily fits the bill.

42:54

I remember that, yeah, yeah.

43:00

I mean, I guess, from my point of view, I I'm I really don't like the idea of indie podcast awards, because what you're basically saying there is that indie podcasts aren't good enough to win the big awards, So you have to have special awards for them.

43:14

And I'm kind of there thinking no, that's entirely wrong.

43:18

Indie podcasts are great and fantastic and can very easily win awards.

43:22

That's a good point.

43:24

I'm kind of you know, i mean supportive To them, but I'm also thinking, yeah, you know.

43:31

So. M McGowan, who is the creator and host of verbal diorama, said that independent podcasts are the cornerstone of podcasting.

43:40

These are people with regular jobs, families and other commitments who still endeavor to put out quality podcast content regularly, often from spare bedrooms, garages or the dining room table, which completely agree.

43:53

And so the Phoenix Arts Club in London on the 12th of October.

43:59

I remember the Phoenix Arts Club because that was one place in London that was still open after the pubs closed, and so, therefore, that was somewhere that I got to know relatively well when I used to work in the center of London And I was a member.

44:17

I was a member.

44:18

So this will be just your, your old stomping grounds, if you stop by, for sure, yeah.

44:24

So maybe I should, although frankly that would mean getting on a plane and we don't want that.

44:29

And October the 21st, the Afros and Audio podcast festival, which is happening in Baltimore as well.

44:36

And then finally, for this, the International Women's Podcast Awards, hosted in London, again, i think, good Lord On Monday, the 6th of November.

44:49

And there are more events, both paid for and free, at Pod News virtual events or events in a place with people.

44:56

If you're organizing something, you can tell the world about it, and it's free.

44:59

podnewsnet slash events.

45:01

Boostergram. Boostergram Corner.

45:03

Corner Corner on the Pod News Weekly Review.

45:08

Oh yes, it's our favorite time of the week, Isn't it Sky?

45:11

It's Boostergram Corner.

45:13

Ah, yes, i'm so excited about Boostergram Corner.

45:16

Yes.

45:18

Yes, I'm guessing that inside podcasting, when you were doing that podcast didn't have uh boostergrams on it because uh boostergrams hadn't been invented yet.

45:29

No, we definitely did. This is totally new to me, although I do think it has something to do with uh commentary that you've gotten from people who listen to the show.

45:37

Yes, that's, uh, that is exactly it.

45:40

So a boostergram is somebody that has sent a boost, which is a small amount of money, um, and they accompany that with a message, um, which is, uh, an excellent way.

45:51

I always think of getting comments in, because every comment makes you richer, ooh, uh, albeit not that much richer, um.

46:00

So, uh, we've got one from the mere mortals podcast, um, uh, here, haven't we?

46:05

Yes, it says hope your pod news event goes schmick fellas.

46:10

I'm not really sure what schmick means, but okay, um, james, don't forget to bring me back some pod fans swag when you come home.

46:19

I'm a medium.

46:21

Yeah, Well, um, that's Kyrin from the mere mortals podcast.

46:24

He is uh, he's an, he's an. Aussie Schmick means something that's really, really good.

46:30

I'm feeling schmick, so is. it's an Australian slang term, i assume.

46:34

Yeah, yeah, it's Australian slang. I've lived there for six years.

46:36

I understand Australian slang now, so that's a good thing isn't it?

46:39

Oh nice.

46:40

Uh, he sent us a row of ducks double two, double, two sats.

46:43

Uh, thank you, kyrin, for that. The bad news is that Sam did not give me any pod fans swag, uh, so unfortunately, i'm not bringing any back into the great country of Australia And so therefore I won't be able to uh, bring that back to you.

46:59

So next time.

47:00

But who knows, maybe we can do the yeah another time.

47:03

uh, uh, september. Uh, i'm sure that that's a plan Um, and a massively long uh message here from Martin at Podfriend.

47:13

Yes, it's massively long, it's two words.

47:15

Love listening. Yes, and he sent you 10,000 sats, which I guess must be even more, uh, more money, so you're even richer.

47:25

Yes, That's um 10,000 sats, which is two, two dollars 60.

47:29

So, um, that's almost enough for, uh, half of a pint of beer.

47:33

Yes, I was just going to say you can buy yourself half a drink, uh, something relatively inexpensive, okay.

47:40

So, yes, something super inexpensive.

47:44

Somebody was saying, uh, we were. I was chatting to somebody who listens to this show, um, at uh Pod News Live earlier on in the week and they said, what's all this boostergram stuff?

47:54

What does it? what, what, what, what even is a boostergram?

47:57

And I said, well, it's about $2,000 so far, and that and that changed their, uh, their, their, their thought of, uh, how all of this stuff works.

48:07

So well, it really does add up right. Yeah, like every little, every little bit, i mean I mentioned earlier I have paid subscribers from my newsletter and each time I get a little ding and someone subscribed it.

48:17

really it really does. over time It builds up.

48:20

So it's an important thing. And, of course, there's uh streaming sats as well, which is where you say I'm going to um, i'm going to pay I don't know 10 sats or maybe 100 sats every minute that you listen Um, and that's another great way of um of earning out of this uh as well.

48:37

It's all to do with value for value, what value you get, um, and giving that value back in terms of time, talent or treasure.

48:45

Uh, if you get value from what we do at the Pod News Weekly Review, it's um separate from Pod News.

48:50

Sam and I share everything from it and we really appreciate your support so we can help continue making this show.

48:55

Um, you can either um support us with uh dollars at weeklypodnewsnet or support us with sats by hitting the boost button in your podcast app.

49:04

If you don't have a suitable podcast app, then that's fine.

49:07

Just download Fountain. That will work uh excellently, uh, or you can find out more at podnewsnet slash new podcast apps.

49:16

How's your week been? That's going.

49:18

Oh, it's really busy, busy writing Um.

49:21

I'm writing the third part in my series and, uh, last time I focused on WNYC studios and progress there over the past four years, and in my next issue I'll actually be continuing the thread and adding a bunch of information, uh, that I didn't include last time because of space.

49:37

um, specifically, all you know also about WNYC studios and and its progress, its innovation, or lack thereof, over the past four years, but I'll also be looking at the WNYC newsroom, um, in this last piece to see, um, why, why the output there has changed as well.

49:56

So I'm really really busy trying to get that out before I leave on vacation.

50:00

I'm leaving on vacation, coming to where you are right now, james, flying to London on Friday.

50:05

Yes, which will be very exciting. It may still be very, very hot, uh, or it'll probably be be back to its normal, uh sort of um pouring itself.

50:15

Um, uh you, you, uh.

50:17

Have you got anything exciting planned? Are you coming to see some shows while you're here, and that sort of thing?

50:22

Yes, we've got a few things on the calendar, but we didn't schedule a lot.

50:26

We we like with our two kids, our plan is usually one touristy thing during the day, then the kids can have a break, we can, my husband and I can walk around, grab a drink, whatever, and then we all meet up at night again.

50:38

So we've got it's pretty loose.

50:40

Um, i've found that in London, like you, don't have to reserve a lot of stuff in advance, although we have gotten tickets to uh Book of Mormon, which probably isn't totally age appropriate, but we think our kids are going to love it.

50:51

Um, and uh, some other fun things.

50:54

And obviously we're going to do all the touristy stuff, like you know, uh towers of London and Buckingham Palace and all of that.

51:01

So we're really looking forward to that.

51:02

Yes And uh, yes, no, it's, it's, it's going to be, it's going to be a good, a good time, i think, And uh, yeah, and enjoy uh the the fun of the um, uh, of the subway and everything else.

51:13

Uh, it's um. The thing that surprises me after spending, you know, obviously, quite, quite a lot of time away but I used to live here Um is just the amount of, um, uh, the amount of people that's gone from the streets.

51:26

I was in the city of London on Friday And, um, you know it, when I was living here, um five, six, seven years ago, um, the city of London would be absolutely full of, you know, bankers finishing their Friday going to the pub, um, and it would have been impossible to, you know, sit down for a quiet beer.

51:47

Um, this, this Friday, which was the start of a of a holiday weekend as well, uh, this Friday, there was literally one person in the pub that I walked past at, uh, half past seven in the evening.

51:59

Wow, um, because everybody works from home now.

52:02

Yeah, you know the. I live in the Bay Area, as you know, and our downtown, downtown San Francisco, is similar.

52:08

It's it's much quieter than it used to be, it's um, it's really distressing.

52:13

Yeah, that's, that's, that's uh sad to hear.

52:16

I'm, i'm, i'm. I hope things change over time.

52:19

Yeah, we'll have to see.

52:21

I hope so, I hope so. It does make you wonder what's going to happen to the property market and all of that.

52:26

but still, there you go.

52:28

Oh yeah, real estate. It's definitely in trouble here in San Francisco.

52:31

We'll have to see whether there is over time, if there's a return or if people just stay at home.

52:37

It seems like it's definitely going to lean towards people staying at home, but who knows, We'll see what the future holds.

52:43

In any event, James, I'm going to definitely go to London so I can show people my amazing British accent, as I was, you know, doing that for you earlier in the call.

52:55

I'll be, you know, just really blowing people away with my British accent for the next week.

53:01

Yes, yes, not necessarily sure that that's a thing.

53:07

You sound genuinely shocked.

53:09

There's a worry.

53:12

There's a worry, we'll have a fantastic time in the UK.

53:15

Thank you, and how about you? What's happening for you this week, james?

53:18

Well, i mean, obviously I'm spending. I'm spending a long time on planes, trains and automobiles, except not the automobiles bit.

53:25

So Manchester was lovely.

53:28

It was very unusual going to Manchester and it being sunny, so that was a nice thing.

53:33

And yes, and I'm just getting ready to tomorrow morning I will be flying your way.

53:40

I'm going over to Toronto spending the night in a airport hotel because flights and then Toronto, vancouver back home, so imagine the excitement that I'm going to have.

53:54

It's a 14, 14 and a half hour flight.

53:58

Oh wow, In coach.

54:01

Yeah, brutal, brutal. But the reward of being in your home, sweet home, i'm sure.

54:07

Oh, yes, yes, very much looking forward to that.

54:10

And yeah, and then, and then, and then. my next flight will be over to Denver, colorado, for podcast movement.

54:17

That is, of course, assuming that your company, your assuming that your country hasn't gone into civil war by then.

54:24

No, you never know here in the US.

54:27

Wow, what on earth.

54:29

Anyway, let's not. Let's not get into politics.

54:31

A different conversation for a different time.

54:34

It most certainly is, and that's it for this week.

54:38

Yes, you can ask Sam and James questions using the email, weekly at pod news dot net, or send them a booster gram for feedback which, as you've been able to tell you, you might even hear your own feedback on this very show.

54:51

Oh yes.

54:51

If your podcast app doesn't support boost, then grab a new app from pod news dot net.

54:56

Forward slash new podcast apps.

54:59

Our music is from studio dragonfly, i voice over is Sheila D, and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout podcast hosting made easy.

55:07

Thank you so much, sky.

55:09

This was a thrill. I really enjoyed it.

55:12

Please have me back. This was lots of fun.

55:14

Get updated every day. Subscribe to our newsletter at pod news dot net.

55:20

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55:24

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