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aura.com/safety. Hello,

1:04

I'm Matt Cholley, and this is Politics

1:06

Without the Boy. It's coming up on today's

1:09

episode. Who is still voting conservative? They might

1:11

be at record lows in polls, but

1:13

there are millions of people still planning to

1:15

vote toy. So in our latest Times Radio

1:17

focus group, we asked them why. In the

1:20

columnists, Man Breen Rana and Matthew Syed on

1:22

being awash with football analogies as the election

1:24

overlaps with the AURUS. And if you like

1:27

what you hear on the podcast, don't

1:29

forget you join me for Politics Without the

1:31

Boy. It's live on Times Radio, on your

1:33

DAB radio, on your smart speaker, or download

1:35

the Times Radio app. It's Politics Without the

1:38

Boy. It's weekdays from 10. Now,

1:53

it's one thing losing candidates at the

1:55

ballot box. It's

1:58

quite another having the... rounded up

2:00

by the police. First,

2:05

at the Tory, Craig Williams,

2:07

it was Rishi Sunak's parliamentary

2:09

private secretary who was

2:11

revealed to be under investigation after

2:14

he put a flutter on when

2:17

the election would take place three

2:19

days before Rishi Sunak announced it.

2:23

Now we've got the BBC reporting a

2:25

second Conservative candidate, Laura Saunders, is being

2:28

examined by the Gambling Commission over an

2:30

alleged bet also connected to the

2:32

timing of the election. She's

2:36

married to Tony Lee, who

2:38

is the Conservative Party's director of

2:40

campaigns. And

2:44

one of Rishi Sunak's own protection officers

2:48

has been arrested over

2:50

other alleged bets on the timing of

2:52

the election. The

3:00

Metropolitan Police has said it's been informed

3:02

by the Gambling Commission that

3:04

a police constable from

3:07

the Royalty and Specialist Protection

3:09

Command is being investigated

3:11

over the bets. I

3:17

mean, congratulations if you had that on

3:19

your election bingo card when

3:22

he called that. I

3:25

told you at the beginning of the campaign

3:28

things would happen in the

3:30

campaign which we weren't expecting

3:32

and that we'll remember. Getting

3:36

soaked in the rain announcing the election, abandoning

3:39

the D-Day veterans and

3:43

now a police investigation into

3:47

betting on the timing of

3:50

the election. I mean, I'm a GOG.

3:52

I'm a GOG. Yes

4:02

indeed. Yes indeed.

4:05

Yes indeed. I am a GOG. Now,

4:08

talking of criminal records, time for

4:10

a short break. Now

4:12

that's what I call Andrew Neil. The

4:15

biggest hits chosen by politics,

4:17

his biggest hitter. Featuring the

4:19

Pet Shop Boys. Blood,

4:24

sweat and tears. What goes

4:26

up must come

4:28

down. Chicago. Tribe

4:33

Called Quest. The

4:38

Birds. ELO.

4:45

The Italian Rapo-Loco Hunt. And

4:49

most surprising of all, Dua Lipa.

4:53

The soundtrack of your Coffee Break.

4:56

Halfway point of the show. Now

4:59

that's what I call Andrew Neil. Out now. Yes,

5:07

you can find the whole of

5:09

the Andrew Neil Coffee Break playlist

5:12

on Spotify. Just go onto Spotify

5:14

to search Andrew Neil

5:17

Coffee Break. And you can take him with

5:19

you wherever you are. And

5:23

someone called Matthew on

5:26

Times Radio. And Mavvie Vynas

5:28

here. What's in your box, Mavvie? Hello, hello.

5:30

I come with mini pastries. I

5:33

heard they might be needed today. What's

5:35

that supposed to be? What do you want to buy? I

5:38

think you've got a taste test coming. Oh

5:41

yes, sorry. I thought you were talking about the fact I went out with

5:43

an old college friend last night. That's interesting. I

5:46

didn't know about that. Not seen, Matt, for you were trying to work out

5:48

15, 16, 17 years. Yeah,

5:51

got out of the thing. Yeah, and we just picked up from

5:53

where we left off. Nice. I

5:55

saw Matthew Said last night. Did you? Big

5:58

election event for you. it

18:00

on our behalf. No, but this is...

18:03

Right, come

18:05

on. Can

18:08

I throw in something here if the signal

18:10

is holding up? Is it bad? Don't do this

18:13

at home. Let's

18:17

not try this at home, kids. God,

18:21

it really catches the old bat. I mean, I like a girl. I

18:28

thought you were going to be sick then. I get

18:30

the salt, but does it have to have so much

18:32

vinegar in it? Well,

18:34

I think, could I

18:37

just add that it's

18:39

not for everybody and that's what the research

18:41

shows, is that there's mixed evidence. So some

18:44

athletes will enjoy it and

18:46

report performance benefits from drinking pickle

18:48

juice, but obviously you lot wouldn't.

18:51

Are there other ways of

18:53

restoring your sodium and potassium

18:55

without drinking pickle juice? Yes.

18:58

You could drink, Brian, but actually a sports

19:00

drink, an isotonic sports drink is another way.

19:02

So sports drinks also contain your electrolytes and

19:05

they contain carbohydrate as well. So obviously if

19:07

you're running around a pitch and playing super

19:09

well, then you're also expending energy. So sports

19:12

drink would be another way of doing it.

19:14

Matthew, when you were a competitive table tennis

19:16

player, would you be cracking out

19:18

in a jar of pickles? This

19:21

is relevant to me. In my late

19:24

teens, my table tennis career almost ended

19:26

because I had a problem with cramp.

19:29

I actually started taking, I started

19:31

taking, and it was really serious. It

19:34

was a career-rending problem that I had.

19:36

And I started taking electrolyte tablets and

19:38

it made it worse. Weirdly, the concentration

19:40

of potassium and sodium made it worse

19:42

in my body because we respond to

19:44

different ingredients in different ways. So the

19:46

solution for me was drinking lots of

19:48

water. I drank consistently and it got

19:50

rid of the cramp in addition to

19:53

some certain types of cardiovascular work. This

19:55

is maybe too much information, but it

19:57

was when you were talking about cramp

19:59

and problem. out

22:00

those sachets things. And somebody told me if

22:02

you've never had one before, now is not

22:04

the time. Absolutely. Yeah. So

22:06

we talk about train your muscles and train your

22:08

gut. There we are. Who knew? Yeah, so don't

22:10

do because apparently all sorts of things can happen

22:12

if you if you have a load of those

22:14

sachets. I think my God's gonna need a lot

22:17

of training before I'm gonna finish

22:19

it off. Here we go. I'm taking a pastry

22:21

chaser. It's really

22:27

I can't honestly I can I can smell the

22:29

remainder from from the other side of the desk.

22:31

Can I apologize to listeners now that the rest

22:33

of the show might be quite burpy. Although

22:38

I read the paper Lydia is quite good.

22:41

It's good for having fresh breath. What

22:44

really I thought it says they said because

22:46

it kills bacteria which reproduces everything on the

22:51

way down. Yeah, well,

22:53

I guess I guess that would happen. But still is important

22:55

that you make sure you hydrate as

22:57

well. Thank you for that Lydia. Lydia Patel

22:59

sports nutritionist Matthew, Matthew side for bringing some

23:02

science or man we can I apologize about

23:04

this. I really do know you're

23:06

a key. I mean, this is this is what

23:08

I came into journalism for drinking pickle. Man, could

23:10

you join us every Thursday morning to take an

23:12

in depth look at today's political stories. Man Veen

23:14

rather Matthew side and of course you can catch

23:16

Matthew in the Sunday times at the times.com and

23:19

Mr. Man Veen on the story podcast wherever you're

23:21

listening to this but not before you've listened to

23:23

the Times Radio focus group. That's next. How

23:31

does appreciation feel to you? A rising

23:35

rush of warmth? A

23:38

building wave of confidence? At

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the power of appreciation with

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our total employee. Hey,

24:05

everyone. I'm Craig Robinson, co-host

24:07

of the Ways to Win

24:09

podcast, alongside my good friend,

24:11

John Calipari. I've been on

24:13

the go recently. Phoenix, Kansas

24:15

City, Chicago. If you're like

24:18

me and have a home but aren't

24:20

always at home, you have an Airbnb.

24:22

Hosting your home or spare room is

24:24

a very practical side hustle. If you

24:27

live in a big game town, you

24:29

can Airbnb your place for fans to stay

24:31

in. Your home might be worth more than

24:33

you thi... mismanagement

28:00

of the actual party itself, so I'll

28:02

just reason that whole thing. I don't

28:05

think they're coming across very well, especially

28:07

on social media with all the how

28:10

have you struggled and I didn't ask ITV

28:12

and that's kind of been moved everywhere, hasn't

28:14

it? They haven't done great, but at the

28:16

end of the day, no one else has

28:18

been through a global pandemic, have they? Sometimes

28:22

change for the sake of change isn't necessarily.

28:24

I'm not hearing that many fantastic things from

28:26

Labour or from Tory at the moment. I

28:28

think there's been a few gaffes that have

28:30

gone against them. The Rishi D-Day thing seems

28:33

to have got a lot of coverage, but

28:35

it's not too late for them to put it around. Initially,

28:38

I was following the crowd, but I wasn't

28:40

going to vote for them. But when I

28:42

listened to the manifesto, they've been doing okay

28:45

to me. Public opinion seems to

28:47

be the favourite change, which I think is

28:49

everyone's natural default point in these types of

28:51

situations, but I'm more of an opinion and

28:53

I think we need stability. Compared

28:56

to some of the previous weeks, this

28:58

is more positive, as

29:00

you'd expect, but they're picking

29:03

up all the things we probably expect

29:05

them to. Tory infighting, the troubles with

29:08

D-Day, Sky TV also mentioned. Yeah,

29:11

and it's interesting, isn't it? A

29:13

lot of it is also to avoid a

29:15

negative. In their minds, it's change for

29:17

change's sake that is the problem. These

29:19

guys are very keen for as little

29:21

change as possible. They're

29:23

sticking with the Conservatives as

29:25

a result. It's interesting throughout

29:27

this, Matt, that it's

29:30

not a million miles away from what our swing voter

29:32

groups were saying last

29:34

year in late 2022. That has obviously changed massively. This

29:36

is now a minority

29:41

view amongst the public. But

29:44

it's not impossible to imagine a world where this would

29:47

have been the views of swing voters in this campaign,

29:49

but unforced errors by the Conservatives,

29:51

a good campaign by Labour, as

29:53

well as the rise of reform means that this

29:55

is now rather a niche view in

29:57

British politics. like

30:00

you said this was what people were saying like a year or

30:02

so ago, it is, I remember

30:05

we'll come on to this in a bit as well,

30:07

what your advice to which you might have been, was

30:09

there a window where they could

30:11

have locked in some of those people

30:13

who became swing voters or switchers by

30:15

sticking to focusing on the

30:17

good stuff rather than avoiding the

30:20

infighting and the negatives which have driven people away

30:22

leaving this sort of rump of Tory voters? Oh

30:25

yeah I think infighting has been a huge thing I

30:27

think also just frankly people have

30:29

taken a look at Rishi Sunak a bit

30:31

more closely and not really like what they've

30:33

seen in terms of how he comes across

30:35

on social media in terms of some

30:37

of the gaffes like like D-Day, the Sky

30:39

TV comments last week, I

30:41

think a lot of it comes back to the conference

30:44

for me like you know when he at

30:46

that last Tory conference his message was very

30:48

different and it was about you know him

30:50

being a sort of person for change and

30:53

not like other politicians I think probably they've

30:55

stuck that message and they've probably been a

30:57

slightly better place now the problem is is

30:59

that they sort of deviated from

31:01

one strategy to the other you know they

31:04

announced that message you know he's different from

31:06

all the other politicians and then three weeks

31:08

later appointed David Cameron so you know they

31:10

needed to try and stick to a message

31:12

I think and that's another thing which has

31:14

basically ended up in them not really pleasing

31:17

anyone. Okay but let's dig into this then

31:19

this is what the group of people currently

31:21

saying they're going to vote conservative in a

31:23

fortnight's time what do they think about Rishi

31:25

Sunak? I think he's got a real like

31:27

ability about him and I think he's doing

31:29

a good job in the situation he was

31:32

put into. Stabilising the economy very competent even

31:34

if he seems a little out of touch

31:36

but I just think the media don't like

31:38

him so I mean like the D-Day thing

31:40

it's not great but it's surely there's other

31:42

news. He's like but impersonal, he can relate

31:45

to him on some level. He seems competent,

31:47

he has had a massive uphill challenge. I

31:49

just feel he's the man

31:51

for the job. I'd say he's a pretty safe

31:54

pair of hands but yeah the media don't seem

31:56

to like him and yeah he does come a

31:58

little bit too privileged at times. So

32:02

it seems like the media is getting the blame for his

32:04

problems. I mean, actually, it's a lot of if we went

32:06

back 18 months when he first became Prime

32:09

Minister, even maybe even before that, we've

32:11

got that from a bunch of much broader bunch

32:14

of voters. Yeah, absolutely.

32:16

I mean, I think people forget this. The views

32:18

of Rishi Sennak in our focus groups

32:21

from when he became PM in October

32:23

2022, pretty much through

32:25

till December last year,

32:27

was pretty positive. People thought

32:30

he was quite intelligent. They thought he

32:32

was quite engaging. And they talked about

32:34

furlough a lot. Certainly when they sort

32:36

of made five promises and then didn't

32:38

deliver them. And then people

32:40

sort of turned around and said, well, maybe this guy

32:42

isn't all he's cut out to be. And then they

32:44

saw some of those worst points. They talked

32:47

about him being out of touch more, which you

32:49

even saw come through amongst these conservative voters. So,

32:51

yeah, you know, I think Rishi Sennak absolutely did have that

32:54

window. And I think, you know, the great thing about these

32:56

focus groups we've done with Times Radio, Matt, is that, you

32:58

know, you can obviously look back and see those trends and

33:00

see those openings and those missed

33:02

opportunities, I suppose. And,

33:05

yeah, I do think there was that there was

33:07

that benefit of the doubt there as well. You

33:09

know, he's being dealt a bad hand that still

33:11

exists for these guys. It's

33:13

these are probably one of the it was quite bizarre, Matt,

33:15

I have to say, doing the focus group and listening to

33:18

people be positive about Rishi Sennak. We haven't heard that for

33:20

many, many months. So why? As

33:22

I say, it's a niche view now. Let's

33:25

take a listen, then, as to why they

33:27

think the Tories then are doing so badly.

33:29

I think they're a product of their own

33:31

demise. I don't think it's got anything to

33:34

do with Rishi. It is that lack of

33:36

trust and people are judging them on what

33:38

has happened previously and not what potentially could

33:41

do moving forward. Boris Johnson, Liz

33:43

Truss, Rishi Sennak, they've been the

33:45

three prime ministers since the election. Who's

33:47

most to blame for the situation they're in now? Probably

33:50

Boris Johnson. He kind of

33:52

given conservatives a bad name, in

33:54

my opinion. Definitely not Rishi Sennak,

33:57

but yeah, Boris, Liz, one

33:59

with eight.