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to podcast deluxe. You're a little big pack

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of weekly cultural review. I'm John Caramonica, a

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critic at the New York Times. I'm Joe

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Cascarelli. I'm a reporter at the New York

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Times. Joe, is it over?

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Is it over? Can I sleep? Can

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I rest finally? You

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can rest. Drake can't rest because

0:56

not like us is going to be

0:58

playing all summer long.

1:00

All summer long. Unfortunately for that

1:02

man. Yes. I

1:05

feel like my main takeaway from the last

1:07

few days, obviously both sides

1:10

of the Drake Kendrick kerfuffle

1:12

have indicated that at least

1:14

for now, everybody's standing

1:16

down. Yeah. You know,

1:18

obviously there's little, there's information

1:21

trickling out. We'll get to some of the

1:24

side narratives in a minute. But

1:27

generally speaking, important

1:29

figures on both sides of this have

1:31

said great for the

1:34

culture. You're talking about top from

1:36

TDE and DJ academics from, from,

1:38

you know, formerly, formerly switched side.

1:40

I mean that nobody switches sides

1:42

more than DJ academics. I mean,

1:45

he's on stream. He's on stream

1:47

24 hours a day. It's hard

1:49

to be. It's true. It's like

1:51

when you think of newscasters,

1:54

sometimes they make a flub, but like they're on

1:56

all day. Yeah. It's a lot of, a lot

1:58

of people. Yeah. Give

2:00

them grace. Yeah, we're giving all

2:03

our twitch streamers all our streamers, right? Yes

2:06

But yes people from both sides have

2:08

indicated It's done.

2:11

It's over and frankly if people from

2:13

both sides had not said that openly

2:16

The thing to me that would say that without saying

2:18

that is the fact that not like us is

2:20

as we speak The number

2:23

one song in the

2:25

country. Yeah, and by a large margin

2:27

With less than a full tracking week because it

2:29

was released on a Saturday

2:32

was it? Yeah, it was a Saturday, right? Uh,

2:35

you remember way back Way

2:37

back. I was never I was never that young Euphoria

2:40

is number three. Mm-hmm to Drake. This is

2:42

in the top five Family

2:44

matters. There's a there's a song referring

2:47

to Drake the

2:49

most popular rapper on earth as a Kind

2:51

of file in the number one slot on

2:54

the Billboard Hot 100 Yeah,

2:56

just when you put it like that. No,

2:59

no, I know Well, I was thinking I

3:01

was rereading the lyrics on the way

3:03

in right and thinking about how frequently that

3:05

song is being played whether it's

3:08

at nightclubs on the radio being

3:10

streamed online and thinking about

3:12

how a pop it works, which is it it

3:17

needs The sentiment into

3:19

you as you listen to it one

3:21

time three times five times ten times

3:23

That is the sentiment that is being

3:25

needed into the country or even worse

3:27

Which is that you forget you you

3:30

hear the song so often that you

3:32

forget what it's about, right? It's so

3:34

casual and then it's just washing over

3:36

you like I assume by this week

3:38

That song and people are humming along

3:40

like that song is now reaching people

3:42

who have no idea That's true that

3:45

Kendrick and Drake even they just think it's

3:47

a catchy Kendrick song. Yeah Whoever

3:50

who I'm at like that poor guy

3:53

Waffle up. No,

3:56

that's fair. That's right. I mean I think in our

3:59

Bubble. We assume everybody is fully

4:01

up to speed, but it's important to

4:03

remember that. Thousands.

4:06

Millions. Have you had a

4:08

reference to. Be

4:10

up there was. people are now just casually

4:12

lessons as are on the radio and maybe

4:15

even not think about art about what it's

4:17

about. And I think one of the funny

4:19

things about this moment where both sides seem

4:21

to be sanding down is that there's also

4:24

this hints light but we're ready at any

4:26

time. Mice you know from it's got five

4:28

hours. I'm more this song's he's just letting

4:30

that not like us breathes you know, treats.

4:33

oh it's over. but it's not over. Like

4:35

enough Straight posted his samurai meme. I

4:37

posted the clip from the tv show you

4:39

what was that? I didn't know that yeah

4:41

that's an obscure stats they get that this

4:44

Europe. Yeah it's a deep guy that the

4:46

show you watch one when you're going through

4:48

hell is going to say when you've seen

4:50

everything on stream are like when I get

4:52

off when you get off at or the

4:54

or is it is wanna is a set

4:56

in a dark and unwind. A little benefits

4:59

yeah and you're like time right for them

5:01

through the Apple Tv. like okay by not

5:03

of I Target. you know he said summer

5:05

vibes come in. Something.

5:07

Good times good times have I mean this

5:09

is our eyes met him a sword screen

5:11

grab this to share with everybody I could

5:13

Times summer vibes com idea. Ah

5:16

and if I spotted in was

5:18

a spot in Turkey today to

5:20

experience her ex yesterday. Ah. Didn't.

5:23

Air drinkers direct. Toronto,

5:25

To Turks. Where. We're at it,

5:27

sort of as he since. I.

5:31

Guess know? why? wouldn't know. Definitely a

5:33

nutter that the clean at the Queen

5:35

point. So. I think. The.

5:38

Thing is they both still

5:40

have like. A finger

5:42

on the trigger. You know, metaphorically. Maybe

5:45

just in case. But. with

5:47

academics also saying that for ages.

5:50

Fourteen. ons mean who knows who knows but

5:52

i think the like this information has been such

5:55

a bad part of this that the other thing

5:57

i think the main thing is that nobody else

5:59

is or for it to end

6:01

because it has been amazing business

6:04

for everyone. That's everyone from Universal

6:06

Music, owner of

6:09

the labels that both of these individuals are

6:11

assigned to, or licensed to, given

6:15

they're standing in the industry these days. But

6:18

also all the way

6:20

down to random posters, anonymous,

6:24

moaters, tweeters, you

6:27

know, the Watergate deep throat of

6:29

Meet the Grams, just

6:32

DJ academics who we mentioned, Joe

6:34

Budden, you know, when people are

6:37

doing the podcast deluxe. We're on

6:39

our third segment. Yeah, doing numbers.

6:41

Third? Sure. You

6:44

know, nobody wants to let this go

6:46

because it's extremely

6:48

exciting. There's

6:52

so many little threads to pick at. Like,

6:54

yes, we've already referred to this. I've

6:56

already referred to this. It's QAnon. True

6:59

Detective. We see all paying attention.

7:01

Subreddit. Yeah, thank you for all

7:04

the shout outs to

7:06

our framing. Yes.

7:10

Pop music in 2024. But

7:14

anybody can grab any one little thing

7:17

and drive it into the ground. We're

7:19

now we're fact checking the fact checks

7:21

of something that has yet to be

7:23

fact checked. Like there is no actual

7:25

information. And yet we have people spending

7:28

days upon days, theory

7:30

upon theory, dissecting. Yes. And

7:32

there's things that honestly don't

7:34

do not no longer. If

7:38

they ever matter, they certainly don't anymore. And there's

7:40

also new characters. I feel like on TikTok, I'm

7:42

like, there's always a new person who's like, I'm

7:44

the expert. Now I'm the person who's relaying

7:48

the story. And then there's another person the next

7:50

day who's like, actually, I'm the person who's relaying

7:52

all the story. The thing

7:54

that I think we haven't talked about exactly

7:56

in any of these conversations, but I think

7:59

is worth. at least nodding to,

8:01

is what was happening in hip-hop 12

8:04

months ago. Six months ago. I wish

8:06

I could tell you. Yeah, but it just, we're

8:09

in an, frankly,

8:11

an uncharacteristically dry stretch.

8:14

And it's not like the conversation that was happening

8:16

last year about there's no rap records at the

8:18

top of the charts. It's not that. There's

8:20

plenty of interesting stuff happening in the middle ground

8:22

and in the underground. There's plenty of stuff happening.

8:25

But the biggest players either

8:28

were focused on touring or

8:32

were in a bloat era of just putting

8:34

out projects and maybe had one or two

8:36

interesting songs and then just a lot of

8:38

filler. There wasn't a

8:40

lot of enthusiasm at the

8:42

highest levels, I think. And

8:44

so what's happened is everybody

8:46

who's an A plus A

8:49

or A minus or B,

8:51

probably all are B. Yeah,

8:53

no, no, we're just going to leave it there. We're

8:56

all, you're all Bs. Everybody's

8:59

getting great inflation. Everybody's getting a

9:01

B. But everybody

9:04

wants to play. Everybody came

9:06

to play. Everybody wants to

9:08

play. It's given purpose. Yeah, Soulja Boy

9:11

jumped in. Yeah, like, but it's given

9:13

purpose to, I think, a generation of

9:15

artists who maybe were starting to look

9:17

in the mirror and say, I wonder

9:19

what comes next. Yeah, or the game,

9:21

the game released to this, or across.

9:23

Yes, I saw that. It's just like

9:25

anybody. It's a free for all.

9:27

Yeah. And it's given a blueprint

9:30

for how to get talked about

9:33

specifically in the shadow of this beef.

9:35

If you can claim some relation

9:38

to it. You know what the

9:41

real blueprint actually, seriously? Cardi

9:44

and Nicky. It's Megan. It's

9:46

Megan and everybody. Like that's like, we don't,

9:48

we have a. Remy

9:50

Ma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. uh,

10:01

uh, quarreling happening in the genre. That's

10:03

really where the action's been. The guys

10:05

have mostly been getting along or trying

10:07

to get along. We just

10:10

didn't know is that they all secretly hated each

10:12

other. So

10:14

anyway, that's I just felt like we

10:16

had to at least nod to the

10:18

fact that all these people who were

10:20

essentially inactive now have been

10:23

invested with purpose. As

10:26

far as the fact checking goes. Yeah. Do

10:29

you think? No. Yeah.

10:31

I mean, does it change

10:33

anything? Does it change the shape

10:36

of what happened specifically for Drake?

10:38

Like, does it, does it

10:40

get better for Drake in this? Probably not. I

10:42

will say a week gone by,

10:44

like it's another week spent in our feeds, right?

10:46

Doing a lot of scrolling. So I think things

10:49

are amplified there and I have to, I have

10:51

to remind myself what I said earlier, like a

10:53

lot of people enjoying this record don't know the

10:55

ins and outs of this beef and never will.

10:57

Yeah. Online, I

10:59

think the tripling down on.

11:03

Drake losing and how bad Drake lost.

11:06

I'd say the little worse for him that

11:09

I thought a week

11:11

ago, like the overall terms of like

11:13

the ding to his. Oh, sure. To

11:16

his character and his celebrity. Yeah,

11:19

that seems obvious. Do you think it's gotten worse even

11:21

because I mean, you said something last week. You were

11:23

like, I don't think anything's happened to not me. I

11:25

still think he's number one. He's still

11:27

number one, but but with some with

11:30

some scuff marks. Yeah. I

11:33

feel that to

11:36

the extent that there's

11:38

a true ranking and

11:40

within that ranking, like you could be number two far away

11:43

from number one, or you could be number two pretty close.

11:45

Number one, I think Kendrick

11:47

has moved up the chart

11:50

and is in the center, especially if he is a

11:52

green arrow next. Yes, like

11:54

Billboard terms. Yeah, he is green. And

11:57

Drake is down arrow, but still, you

11:59

know. You know, not number one sturdy,

12:02

but number one losing, losing

12:04

spins, literally in metaphor.

12:06

Yeah. And we, I sort

12:09

of alluded to this, it's family matters landed at number

12:11

seven on the chart on this

12:13

top 10. That's full of animosity. Yes, but totally.

12:15

Teddy Swims heal the nation. Can Teddy Swims heal

12:17

the nation? We're going to find out. It's horn

12:19

of thunder. But this is where I was going

12:21

with this. I

12:25

think. And Benson Boone. And

12:27

Benson Boone. I need a telethon with

12:30

Teddy Swims and Benson Boone. Son,

12:33

y'all, you got to bring us together. Yeah.

12:36

But I think even if

12:38

we could get the firmly

12:40

reported fact check that says Drake

12:43

planted XYZ information, Kendrick bid on

12:46

it. In fact, the fifth line

12:48

of the third Kendrick dip was

12:50

factually inaccurate. It's not getting better

12:52

for Drake. No, although

12:54

I do think there are. There

12:58

are things that both of them said about

13:00

the other that if they are deemed to

13:02

be credible, could

13:04

potentially continue the destabilization that we've

13:07

seen. These are the serious allegations,

13:09

the quasi criminal, certainly ethical

13:12

allegations that each made about

13:14

the other. That's to me,

13:16

it's been lightly frustrating

13:18

to see that get lost a little bit

13:20

in all the other stuff. You know, we're

13:22

now keeping an eye on the Twitter

13:24

account of a person who appears to have had

13:27

all of the things that ended up on the meet

13:29

the meet the grams. Yeah. Our

13:32

album artwork that was used on six

13:34

sixteen in L.A. and then you saw

13:36

the zoom out. So

13:38

it's like we're following that person and that

13:40

person seems to have a particular agenda and

13:42

it's tough to read. But like those

13:46

allegations that Drake makes about Kendrick and Kendrick

13:48

makes about Drake. Could

13:51

there be any kind of verification? You're

13:53

talking about fact checking about

13:57

essentially the unimportant things that

13:59

the Quibbles. The

14:01

big things should there be some, you

14:04

know, shoe leather reporting and pick up the

14:06

phone and check who the crisis

14:08

management team that got hired and so on and

14:10

so forth. That to me could

14:12

potentially have real repercussions. Yeah. So I

14:14

guess where I was going is that

14:16

I think it can if

14:19

if things play out in a

14:21

certain way, things that incrementally better

14:23

for Drake, who's still in the

14:25

public sphere, I think has

14:27

lost. Yes, nobody is now arguing

14:29

that he wanted in the public

14:32

sphere of extremely

14:34

online. Yeah,

14:36

pop fans and rap. And how that trickles

14:38

up. Of course, it will trickle the mainstream.

14:41

Yes. Could it get worse

14:43

for Drake? That I think is

14:45

outside of a more serious outlook. You're saying

14:48

like tabling that stuff. I'm saying figuring out

14:50

where the stuff came from on the album

14:52

cover, whether or not he has a daughter

14:55

that we don't know about. Did he

14:57

do some of the things Kendrick is

14:59

seeming to allude to? Are there specifics

15:01

in that? Like, I think the

15:04

fact check, as

15:06

we're seeing it play out now with

15:08

a bunch of opposition research from anonymous

15:11

people on Twitter and Discord and TikTok

15:13

and old clips surfacing on both sides.

15:16

I still don't think much of that stuff is going

15:18

to touch what we think of

15:21

Kendrick right now, in part because he

15:23

had such a resounding musical victory, but

15:25

also potentially a moral one in terms

15:27

of how we consider their personas. But

15:30

I think you still see the people

15:32

who aren't letting this go wanting to

15:34

triple down on Drake, not not

15:36

just losing a rap beef, but being. Yes,

15:39

but I do think a deadbeat or an

15:41

abuser or 20 versus one thing back again.

15:44

And actually, I said this, I think, in the

15:46

first conversation that we had about this entire la

15:49

faire, but I think

15:52

Kendrick has far further to fall

15:54

from a moral perspective. Should

15:56

there be fact checking in that direction? Should

15:58

there be any. underneath

16:00

the allegations of him

16:03

being violent is fiance or his former

16:05

fiance which is unclear at the moment

16:08

I think but to me Drake's

16:13

celebrity has always had

16:16

some percentage of this

16:18

guy's a little off built-in but Kendrick celebrity

16:21

has not had any percentage except the part

16:23

where he shows up and says please don't

16:25

put me on a pedestal but other than

16:27

that everybody persists in doing that which is

16:29

why he has to keep saying it I

16:33

think he has further to fall should

16:35

there be actual fact-checking that is damaging

16:37

to him moving forward and you're but

16:39

you're seeing on that side too people

16:41

saying oh I fed Drake that information

16:43

he paid me this like there's so

16:45

many tertiary characters now

16:48

there's so many the plots

16:51

going on that I

16:53

think ultimately short of

16:58

incontrovertible video

17:01

or deeply reported

17:03

evidence like I think this

17:05

is just gonna be a

17:07

war mostly of misinformation misinformation

17:10

and also pre-existing bias sure

17:12

who you know the 20

17:14

verses one is as you

17:16

said previously this is not

17:18

so much about stand-up this is about hate

17:21

and pre-existing hate and people finally

17:23

having a bucket yes with that

17:25

heat to put a bunch of

17:28

missing a decade plus of miscellaneous

17:30

Drake hate now can all

17:32

go into one place and has an anthem

17:34

yes well in

17:36

multiple anthems actually and this is I mean

17:38

that's the other thing that the memes the

17:41

memes that continue to come out of this

17:43

and also with Drake

17:45

at the center I am old enough to

17:47

remember when the memes were in Drake's name

17:49

this is a I'm literally the how old

17:51

am I old enough to remember when the

17:54

means were I was at OVO fest The

17:56

year in Toronto the year of the Drake Meek

17:58

milk. The I'm Put The

18:00

Means on the screen. In real

18:03

time I remember like taxing people

18:05

about a are taking photos taken

18:07

videos. saw it happen. I

18:10

was like this guy. Is it seemed. Like

18:12

he absolutely as weaponizing

18:14

the language of internet

18:16

drama comedy. Ah Joke

18:18

may gain and bring it

18:21

into the world of hip

18:23

Ah Beef and everybody on

18:25

line immediately understands he's fluent

18:27

and format and he's using

18:29

it as a is taking

18:31

out the opposition. Lot.

18:33

With a song although there were songs as

18:35

wealth, but he's a yeah, the opposition with

18:37

jokes and last actually reminded me quite a.

18:40

Of the mixtape covers in the Fifty

18:42

cent like this Unit Brasserie like all

18:44

that like Olds Unit Beef where they

18:47

that mixtape covers what people are cartoon

18:49

versions of people been compromising positions and

18:51

zone. so worth one point no M

18:53

S Paint photo shop very much so

18:56

you know like three and I some

18:58

poor kids like hunched over like photo

19:00

shop or whatever just moving things around

19:03

armed. To me. ah, Drake,

19:05

losing control of the meme narrative and

19:07

losing control of the social narrative is

19:09

actually as damaging as any song. and

19:12

any allegation. I'm and more and maybe

19:14

more sunlight. He gave people the tools

19:16

that are now being used to tear

19:18

and downs and I think it's also

19:21

telling that he's posting through it like

19:23

he's been posting mean this whole time.

19:25

Yes, we haven't heard from Kendrick and

19:28

weeks since the push up video on

19:30

the fence know the way they're now

19:32

with the way. They're talking about Kendrick it

19:35

but he showed up one day, recorded candid songs

19:37

and know what has spoken to him since. He

19:39

was like what about what you want My name

19:41

is that. think about it But Drake mean. Obviously

19:44

not like us as potentially the song of

19:46

the summer but I also wonder if Loki

19:49

Bbl jersey. Is. The Song

19:51

in the Summer Yes. BBL

20:00

Drizzy! And

20:04

this is funny because the

20:06

reason BBL Drizzy exists is

20:08

because in the 1.0 of the beef, Drake

20:11

is like, I'm not worried about you. I'm

20:14

not worried. I'm Metro. You're not even in this. Total

20:17

tossed offline. Metro

20:20

made some drums and put

20:22

it under, is it King

20:24

Wallonius? King Wallonius was, no, King Wallonius

20:26

is the comedian who made the AI

20:29

version of the song that's sampled in the

20:31

Metro. Right. That's what I mean. Yes. Right.

20:33

So then Metro found that, or

20:36

that was already circulating and basically put drums

20:38

on it and put out

20:40

a minute or a minute and a half

20:42

instrumental and said, have at it. So he

20:44

crowdsourced Drake Disciples and

20:47

dances and short clips

20:50

and cartoons. And then

20:52

there's the merengue, LBL, Sammy

20:54

Andalus, which has a number

20:56

of dance videos on TikTok.

21:13

Everybody got in on the party. It's,

21:15

you know, Drake is

21:17

eliminated party on, what was the, what

21:20

was such a so-and-so is over

21:22

party on Twitter. Wasn't that Taylor

21:24

and Kim? Was it

21:26

Taylor and Kim? 2015? Sure.

21:30

Whatever one hashtag is over party,

21:32

this is like Drake is eliminated

21:34

party and everybody's going to town.

21:37

And that's

21:39

because Drake tossed off a line to

21:41

Metro and Metro said, okay, it's open

21:43

disease. But I like that Metro had

21:45

to like, had to do

21:47

a meme to get back in on his

21:49

own beef, on the beef that he orchestrated

21:52

across two future mixtapes. Like when the BBL

21:54

Drizzy challenge, he said, basically, I'll give you

21:56

a real beat to the person who does

21:58

the best verse over the Yes, like

22:00

when that first came out I was like, eh,

22:03

it seems a little boardroom Like everyone in team

22:05

Metro had to get together and be like, hey

22:07

we really got elbowed out of the elbowed out

22:09

of the conversation on this how do we get

22:11

back in and I Don't

22:15

okay. Here's what I'm gonna say I don't know if

22:17

it would have worked so well if he wouldn't have

22:19

done it in the style of a Drake beat Doesn't

22:22

it sound like a beat that Drake should like

22:24

sort of like a 40 style? Yeah

22:27

like drain squelched soul sample

22:29

and then it sort of and then it

22:32

Spreads out a little bit when the drums

22:34

come in and you can hear where the

22:36

verse would go, you know Yeah,

22:39

I could like like a mid 2010s drink.

22:41

Yeah, and I mean look Metro made good

22:43

Drake beats Yeah in the past so

22:46

like it makes it might have had that in the files

22:48

for all we know that could have been sitting On a

22:51

hard drive for years. Yeah, but then you have the vocal

22:53

sample which is reminding people over

22:55

and over again That's

22:58

allegedly Drake having some form

23:01

of cosmetic enhancements

23:03

sure The

23:06

thing that we were just talking about about Drake's

23:08

and mastery of the meme ecosystem I have

23:11

seen Drake been on the receiving end of

23:14

online hate of online jokes

23:17

Actually, one of Drake's greatest gifts

23:19

is taking an incoming joke and

23:21

like either Absorbing it into

23:23

his personality or tweaking it just so and

23:25

sending it back What's the old photo where

23:28

he's wearing the really baggy clothes and he's

23:30

dragging the Tim or in

23:32

the back He's like in a really weird pose. Oh Yeah,

23:36

it's I actually have a French Montana video.

23:38

Yeah, it's in Ross's house Maybe but then

23:40

they ironically yes, and then they made not

23:42

not Drake but someone made polo shirt Yes,

23:44

which I own I should have worn that

23:46

today. Yeah, do you have one? I think

23:49

so We should have we should have matched

23:51

today But yeah, they made

23:53

polo shirts. Yeah, it was a whole thing.

23:55

Drake has always been incredibly savvy about taking

23:57

I mean It's Eminem level frankly of taking

24:00

making opposition information or perspective on you and

24:02

making a part of your personality. The

24:06

sheer volume that's

24:08

coming at him right now, I just

24:10

don't think that that's a viable choice

24:12

which is why whether it's him tapping

24:15

out, whether it's Kendrick tapping out, whether

24:17

it's Top Dog and Punch tapping out,

24:19

whether it's Lucien Grange tapping out, Chubb's

24:22

tapping out, like I don't know what I

24:25

do know and this is, I mean it's

24:27

worth saying when you think about the

24:29

music business, you have

24:31

performers, you have management, you

24:34

have record labels and other

24:38

ancillary executives,

24:41

there can be levels that are beyond

24:43

that of people who are invested in

24:46

rapper's careers and investing in musicians careers.

24:48

I assume that there were high level conversations

24:50

happening at all of those levels. I wonder,

24:52

see there's been a lot of that sort

24:54

of anonymous information to

24:57

you, CEO, Universal had

24:59

an emergency meeting. To me

25:01

I think it's possible that artists

25:03

at this level who control so much of

25:05

their own destiny, you know, Drake's been made

25:07

clear in the past, he's like I send

25:09

my record in when it's done, they put

25:11

their name on it, they put it out,

25:13

you know, like I wouldn't be

25:17

surprised if most people involved in both of

25:19

these guys' careers just took a step back

25:21

and left them hand in the way. Do

25:23

you think Lucien hasn't talked to anyone on

25:25

either side? I

25:29

don't think that CEOs really have a role

25:32

here and if anything they're winning, right? Like

25:34

we see the charts, so like

25:36

there's no, you think there's long

25:38

term on language control going on?

25:41

Yes, I think that the

25:43

potential, I mean the question you asked

25:45

earlier about the potential for additional ongoing

25:48

Drake damage, that's like

25:50

damaging to a snook, that's like information that

25:52

you did not know about a company coming

25:54

to light and people saying well should we

25:57

short this? But I don't think you can

25:59

put that toothpaste back. in the tube now.

26:01

So I think, you know, are the

26:03

suits savvy enough to know

26:06

that if there is career

26:08

ending information about Drake or Kendrick Lamar,

26:10

it's coming out whether or not they

26:13

say, Hey, guys, stop being mean to

26:15

each other. I'll put it on the flip side. This

26:17

is what I think. I think Lucian

26:20

Grange at Universal Music, everybody in between,

26:23

and Drake himself know that the only

26:25

way to get this to stop is

26:28

to make another hit. It's to

26:30

go the gunner route. It's like a

26:32

hit record fixes everything. Post

26:34

through it, except in this case, stop posting

26:37

for a minute and come back with something

26:39

undeniable, whether it's in reference to this, whether

26:41

it is summer vibes only, and

26:43

it's hold on, we're going home part two.

26:45

Like it doesn't matter what it is. So

26:47

that's, I think the last thing we just

26:49

have to make everything else. Okay, you're in

26:51

the crisis room for both

26:53

artists. What do you tell

26:56

Kendrick to do? Or do you recommend Kendrick

26:58

to do? What do you recommend Drake to do? I

27:01

mean, I would say if you're Kendrick, just keep

27:03

recording like you're on fire, like whatever you want

27:06

to do. Finish the album. Yeah,

27:08

put it out. Doesn't have to

27:10

be about Drake. You did you vanquished that

27:13

pop album. It doesn't matter. It's a pop

27:15

album. No matter what if it comes out

27:17

anytime soon. If you're Drake,

27:21

I don't know. Are you rapping or are you singing?

27:23

Rapping. You're rapping? That's this is my answer to the

27:26

question. And you think don't let it go. It's blueprint

27:28

to it's all I might have lost,

27:30

but I'm still the best. Yeah, I mean, if I'm

27:33

here's the thing. If Drake does do summer

27:36

vibes only, while we're going home

27:38

part to control

27:40

an afro beats records,

27:42

you know, and I'm

27:45

a piano record, something like that. People,

27:48

those of us who are invested, the people

27:51

who are watching closely who are following closely

27:53

watching Twitter and YouTube and TikTok and so

27:55

on and so forth, we'll

27:57

know that something is missing.

27:59

Number one. and will forever

28:01

be in a state of anticipation.

28:04

You have left the hungriest,

28:06

thirstiest, most knowledge

28:09

curious fans out in

28:11

the lurch. I don't think Drake

28:13

wants to do that. I think if Drake

28:16

does that, what he's essentially saying is, I'm

28:19

seeding this territory. Rap, basically. Yes, I'm

28:21

willing to let this go. And I'm

28:23

just going to become, I don't

28:27

know, like a Will Smith-esque artist, you know? I

28:30

don't think that that's really what Drake is

28:32

wanting to do. I also don't think that's

28:34

the actual artist that he is. But I

28:36

think at this

28:39

particular moment in his career, if that's

28:41

what he chooses to do, it might

28:43

start to foreclose on some options for

28:46

him if he ever wants to go

28:48

back to the old well. So

28:51

when I say post through it, I think he's

28:53

going to rap through it. What if it's both?

28:55

What if it's melodic Drake, but it's topically,

28:59

I mean, I can only dream of

29:01

that. What a blessing. And as

29:03

for Kendrick, I mean, I think you're

29:06

right that anything that Kendrick does

29:08

right now will be quote unquote pop. Also,

29:10

it's like I saw there was like

29:12

some pushback online about Kendrick as a hitmaker. I mean, Kendrick

29:14

is not like a hitmaker in the sense that Drake is

29:16

a hitmaker, but obviously Kendrick's very popular. And

29:19

whatever he puts out is going to do well. I wouldn't

29:23

be surprised if he wants to put some salt in the wound. And

29:26

two or three big summer

29:28

records, maybe they're about Drake, maybe they're

29:30

not. Maybe they're pointingly not about Drake

29:32

just to prove that doesn't need to

29:34

be about Drake in order to have

29:36

that level of impact. Yeah.

29:38

That's how I think we go. Or for

29:41

both of them, what really would

29:43

keep the conversation going along the

29:45

lines of the cottage industries and

29:47

the satellite economies we're talking

29:49

about is songs that may or may

29:51

not be about one another. And that

29:53

just gives people more and more to

29:55

talk about. Years and years. Should

29:57

we go out with something from blueprint two? Yeah.

30:01

Talk about

30:03

a record I haven't thought about in a long time.

30:06

And not, frankly, candidly,

30:09

not a successful Jay-Z record. Oh, it's so

30:12

good. Come on. I

30:14

don't know about all that. Come here, then you pick a song from Bluebird. It will play

30:16

the intro. Just the intro? Yeah. I

30:19

said, well, we said, well, we

30:21

got said, let me say, I

30:23

said, what he said. Posties,

30:38

and then see that dance, so

30:40

sweet, my dance.

30:47

Don't repeat what I say. He said,

30:49

well, we're here, it's time to get started. We're here to get people to support us. We're

30:51

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31:10

The value of investments may fall as well as rise, and

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31:18

Julie Turquitz, I'm a reporter at the New York Times.

31:21

I have been trying to understand changes

31:23

in migration. So I traveled

31:25

with photographer Federico Rios to the

31:28

Darien Gap. This hot, mountainous, 70-mile

31:30

stretch of jungle straddling the border

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hiking through a river just like covered

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in mud. Many used

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to think that this route was impassable,

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but thousands have been risking their lives

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to pass through the Darien, almost all in the hopes

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of making it to the United States. We

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spent nine days hiking through the

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can support this kind of journalism by subscribing

32:16

to the New York Times. We're

32:20

back. It's podcast Deluxe. John

32:22

is here. I'm Joe. Joe

32:25

is also here. Joe's here. Joe,

32:27

finally, we talked to touch

32:29

last week about challengers. Yeah, that was an appetizer.

32:31

It was an appetizer during snack. It was an

32:34

amuse as it were. But you

32:36

just finally see challengers, which means

32:39

we are free to unleash

32:41

the Zendaya segment. On

32:44

to Deluxe. You

32:51

don't know what kind of service? Relationship.

32:57

We went somewhere very beautiful together. And

33:01

taking such a big time a little while. I

33:05

see you planned this. It's

33:11

been long cooking. How long John? I

33:14

would actually say more than a decade.

33:16

Yeah, it predates Deluxe. It predates podcasts.

33:19

I'm thinking hard about Zendaya for

33:21

a long time back to the Disney era. Okay,

33:26

one of the things I said about challengers last

33:28

week is that

33:30

it is slapstick funny, maybe not

33:32

exactly how it thinks it is. And

33:35

that there were things that it achieved that I

33:37

really enjoyed. But I think maybe some of what

33:40

they were going for was a

33:42

bit of a miss. And we can get into more

33:44

details. But in the big picture, I sort of had

33:46

a good time, but I sort of left scratching

33:49

my head. I didn't really remember

33:51

very many of the words that

33:53

anyone said. The quality of acting

33:56

made. You

34:00

see you're fresh. I'm like 10 days

34:02

old at this point. You're fresh. Talk

34:04

to me. Totally

34:06

ridiculous in a

34:08

completely intentional way, I think. Like

34:11

a made for cable movie. Like,

34:15

you know, Sunday afternoon, flipping

34:17

through the channels. Like, oh, I

34:20

can't believe they made this movie.

34:22

You know, like very vintage, like

34:24

felt very 90s to

34:26

me, late 90s maybe.

34:29

Could have seen. I was gonna say 70s.

34:31

Oh, that too. But no, because I think

34:33

it's like, it's really

34:36

knowing, really reminded me of

34:39

May, December, in the way

34:41

that it was sort of playing with ideas

34:43

of melodrama and camp and

34:47

homoeroticism and homosocial

34:50

behavior. It's just like sex,

34:53

like this pulpy idea of sex.

34:55

Of sex. But also

34:58

no sex. But also no. Very

35:00

little. Yeah, but in like a TV

35:02

way, like you wouldn't have to edit

35:04

much out of that movie. Yeah. Though,

35:06

those stuff. Intimations of sex, but not.

35:09

Yeah. Every

35:11

time I was like, oh, this is like a

35:14

touch too messy or

35:17

the acting is flat. And then even

35:19

in the same scene or with a musical cue

35:21

or with a certain shot, camera

35:24

tricks get more and more ridiculous as

35:26

we get. Especially in the final sort

35:28

of like 10 minute sequence. Yeah. And

35:30

it just kept pulling

35:32

me back. Like it just kept refocusing my

35:35

attention. I thought it was really well made

35:37

for like a modern audience whose

35:40

attention spans are short. Like

35:42

because it was so flashy, but

35:47

like with down moments

35:49

and then it would just like jolt you back. But

35:52

like, could you repeat like one sentence that was said in

35:54

this film? I mean, I thought

35:56

there was a couple great. Ta-da-ta.

36:00

Like the fight the dorm room fight between

36:03

the Zendaya character and her boyfriend at

36:05

the time Who becomes

36:08

the villain of the film right when she

36:10

like shuts him down is basically like your

36:12

game's bad Yeah, and he's and

36:14

he's like I'm not in your fan club Do

36:17

you want to do you want to lay out what this movie's

36:19

about? No, why don't you

36:21

lay out with movies about cuz like to

36:24

we I know what this movie's about and

36:26

it's not about plot It's not about anything.

36:28

So you tell the people what the plot

36:30

of the movie is and then I'll say

36:32

what the movie's actually about Okay, it's a

36:34

love triangle between three tennis players loveless They

36:38

love the what they really love is

36:41

winning Honestly

36:43

on God only one and a half of them

36:45

love winning Zendaya Zendaya

36:48

and The Patrick yeah,

36:50

the then the third guy there guys

36:52

just there. Yeah, just doing his gym

36:54

He's doing a gym courier into impression.

36:57

They just lanky and just do it,

36:59

you know Thank you

37:01

serving Zendaya plays Tashi Duncan the

37:03

Duncanator How

37:07

is there not a Duncan crossover there was

37:09

was there remember they ate the breakfast sandwich

37:12

and then I'm saying like in store Oh,

37:14

oh, yeah, like an app like there we

37:16

need to name that delicious looking breakfast sandwich

37:18

better looking than anything I've ever got it.

37:20

I don't get they need to call that

37:22

back later. Yeah She's

37:25

a tennis prodigy She

37:28

meets two guys at the US

37:30

Open for junior Like

37:34

first of all be funnier like if they're

37:36

funny, but there's like you can play into

37:38

it so much. I'm sorry I'm I'm

37:40

getting in the way of Your

37:43

exposition Patrick and art they've

37:45

been friends since tennis Academy

37:47

art art art Donaldson art

37:50

and Patrick Zweig Which

37:53

is a great great tennis names Zweig Zweig's

37:55

a good tennis I will give that yeah

37:58

their besties They

38:00

hit on the girl who's way better than them.

38:03

She makes them kiss each other and then it haunts them

38:05

for the rest of their lives. Right?

38:09

That's the plot. Yeah, that's the plot. Yeah. And

38:12

one of them was better tennis than the

38:14

other one got better tennis. Yeah, in part

38:16

because the Zendaya character Tashi hurts her knee

38:18

after her fight with her boyfriend. And

38:21

then she swaps guys.

38:26

As one does. And

38:28

takes over as the coach of the

38:30

lesser player. It's like a cut story.

38:33

Yeah, I mean they wish. Yeah,

38:35

but it's not about that. No,

38:38

do you know what it's about? What's it about? Okay,

38:40

this is when I left. The

38:42

first thing that I said when I left

38:44

is like Luca, the director. Luca Guadadina. Yes,

38:47

the director. Director of Call Me By Your

38:49

Name. Okay, the thing, having seen

38:51

Call Me By Your Name, this movie and

38:53

maybe one of the other ones. What about

38:55

the much forgotten HBO series We Are Who

38:58

We Are with Chloe Sevigny? Oh,

39:00

yeah. Weird show. Yeah,

39:02

pretty good. Oh, yeah, it was like

39:04

better than this. It was Euphoria. It

39:07

was like the tab to Euphoria. Coca-Cola.

39:09

Right. Okay.

39:13

What Luca loves is

39:16

a long wanky

39:20

wet string being of a person.

39:23

A person. Any person. But

39:26

they got to be long. They got to

39:28

be lanky. They got to be wet.

39:30

Mm-hmm. And they have to, I was

39:33

thinking a lot about the camera work in this film. Yeah.

39:36

There's a lot of bisecting of the

39:38

screen. There's a lot of- No pun

39:40

intended. No pun intended. Yes. But there's

39:42

a lot of bisecting of the screen.

39:45

Yeah. There's a lot of here's your

39:47

screen. There's a very tall person cutting

39:49

it through the middle. Here's the screen.

39:51

There's a very tall person. Horizontal. Or

39:54

a tennis- Diagonal. Or what? A tennis

39:56

net. Yes. But

39:58

yes. I kept

40:01

thinking this film exists

40:03

purely to film these

40:06

actors in that

40:08

format. Almost everything

40:11

else is incidental. I think this is a

40:13

narratively... It's

40:15

not incoherent, it's just not much

40:18

happened. It's a

40:20

narratively insufficient film. You

40:23

say incoherent, I will say. No, no, I'm

40:25

saying I don't want to say incoherent because

40:27

it's like how can it be incoherent? Like

40:30

four things happen. It can be incoherent because

40:32

it has more timeline changes than Oppenheimer and

40:34

Tenet combined. That is true. Did

40:36

Vulture do this? I mean, no other website

40:38

would do this. Did someone map every time

40:40

change? No, not

40:43

that I've seen. At a certain

40:45

point it got comical, right? You're like

40:47

13 days from two weeks ago and

40:49

you're like wait a second, midnight. It

40:53

lost me a couple times but

40:55

obviously hairdos change, the weather changes. You're

40:58

like, oh, it's windy. It's the day before

41:00

the big tournament which is actually a small

41:02

tournament. You've

41:05

been to New Rochelle before? New Rochelle,

41:07

no. Yeah, I've been to New Rochelle.

41:09

Nice Applebee's. So

41:11

it seemed. Although

41:14

the quality of the hotel... Oh wait, was it

41:16

Applebee's in Atlanta? See, I can't even follow the

41:18

timeline. But the quality of hotels they appear to

41:21

be staying in New Rochelle does seem slightly nicer

41:23

than New Rochelle hotels. Again, where's

41:25

the fact checking? Nothing... Okay.

41:29

The Bias movie, for sure. Nothing happens in

41:31

this movie of substance and when

41:34

something does happen, when there is a

41:36

huge rupture, which spoiler alert, when Tashi

41:39

revisits her past, potentially

41:43

is a business maneuver

41:45

to protect her husband,

41:48

when that happens it is so

41:50

jarring. It's not motivated. It doesn't

41:52

even feel like it's not

41:55

sexually motivated. It's not emotionally

41:57

motivated. Maybe it's corporately motivated.

42:00

motivated but competitively motivated. Yeah, but

42:02

also the thing this this comes

42:04

back to Zendaya

42:06

and Zendaya holding the center

42:08

of this film, literally and

42:10

metaphorically with a relatively narrow

42:13

range of emotions. Not

42:16

showing a lot, really not showing

42:18

a lot. And it's

42:21

eyes the viewer meant to be like invested

42:24

in both Zendaya Zendaya Tashi's

42:26

narrative as a fallen

42:28

champion looking to find salvation,

42:31

looking to find purpose

42:33

by helping art become artful.

42:36

I never feel that if I'm trying

42:38

to say if I'm trying to believe

42:41

in Tashi learning to access something primal

42:43

and like a sexual awakening

42:45

by revisiting what she had with Patrick. I

42:47

don't think so that I don't think it's

42:49

that easy. But I'm saying if it's that

42:51

I don't think that's there either. There

42:53

is a fundamental flatness at the core

42:56

of the film. And the

42:58

reason I said that the film is slapstick

43:00

is because part of what makes slapstick is

43:02

like there's no narrative power and stuff. There's

43:04

sight gags and there's so many there's

43:07

sight gags and then there's

43:09

sight sensuality in this film.

43:11

I don't think there's any

43:13

narrative firmness. No

43:15

I don't I don't either. But I

43:17

think the Zendaya trick

43:20

is exactly that flatness that you're describing. And

43:22

I have this push on you for it

43:25

doesn't work here. I have this push and

43:27

pull with her in everything basically I had

43:29

I have it in euphoria when

43:32

Ru is like so

43:35

annoying and so guileless and so

43:37

frustrating for 80 to 90 percent

43:39

of the show. And

43:42

then she can just jolt you into

43:44

place you know with with a crazy

43:46

monologue with a reaction. That's

43:48

why the come on in this movie the

43:50

tennis come on which she does basically once

43:53

near the beginning and once near the end.

43:56

I think all that coil all

43:58

that Zendaya coil. is for those

44:00

moments. I think you get the come on in

44:03

Euphoria. I had the same issue

44:05

with her in Dune, where I'm like, okay,

44:07

why do you still feel like

44:10

Zendaya or Rue, but you're in the middle

44:12

of a galactic civil

44:15

war? And yet

44:17

she has a certain low-key

44:19

star power, where

44:22

she always brings it home for

44:24

me. I'm always like, my

44:26

mind starts to wonder and I'm like,

44:29

is Zendaya a bad actress? And then

44:31

she's like, nope, got you.

44:34

And I think she plays that. She's

44:36

like, she's one note, but not bad.

44:38

I think she's one note, but amazing.

44:40

And she's like a cobra or something.

44:43

She's like, she's

44:46

doing nothing. And then all of a sudden,

44:48

she's in your face. And I know

44:51

what you're feeling and I feel it

44:53

too. And then she...

44:56

You sound like there's

44:59

that certain slice

45:02

of Rihanna stands or do a stay

45:04

on. Go ahead, we can give us

45:07

nothing. Or like, look

45:09

how strategically she's deploying boredom.

45:12

That makes her a creative genius. No, no, I'm saying,

45:14

but that's what you're saying. Okay. Can I read you

45:17

something from a review of this movie? Yeah,

45:19

go ahead. Zendaya though, plays

45:21

a high school student with the seriousness

45:24

of a grad student. Even

45:26

when she's manipulating others to her will,

45:28

she doesn't seem to be even a

45:30

little thrilled. Except, got

45:32

you. That's not a review of

45:34

this movie. That's a review of Zapped,

45:37

a Disney channel movie from 10

45:39

years ago by me in

45:42

the Times. And that Zendaya is

45:45

exactly the same as the Zendaya

45:47

we get now. 100%. And if

45:49

you're telling me that this is

45:51

an ongoing thought through intentional

45:54

project, that is

45:56

one read. Or if it's an

45:58

actress who is stuck in a

46:00

mode and is not being pushed out

46:03

of that mode or is only being

46:05

afforded opportunities in this mode Maybe

46:08

it's that now in euphoria. I've not seen

46:10

all of euphoria like you have but I've seen

46:12

enough I think it works on

46:15

euphoria because there's something fundamentally desolate about the

46:17

characters in euphoria. I've not seen dune That's

46:19

why I texted you yesterday. You have seen

46:21

dune. Oh, yeah, both the vibe and dune

46:24

Well, she has a very small role in the

46:26

first one Well, it's not a major which the

46:29

Zendaya fans were not happy about because she was

46:31

a big part of the trailer And then she's

46:33

just basically like an apparition. They weaponized her in

46:35

the trailer. Oh, they did can't believe She's

46:38

a bigger role in the second. Okay in the

46:41

second one seen both. Oh, yeah, same vibe Yes,

46:45

although I don't think she has

46:47

as much payoff in dune as

46:50

I would have liked but she's the same She's

46:52

the same. She's always plays Basically

46:55

the same character through the universe, but I

46:57

think that's what makes her such a star

46:59

is She's

47:02

like, you know at a certain point

47:04

you're so duocoded. It's crazy at a

47:06

certain point in Tom Cruise's career He

47:08

can only play Tom Cruise. She's doing

47:11

that But

47:15

here's the thing I have seen a

47:17

bad Zendaya performance and I know the

47:19

difference and I've seen a

47:21

bad Zendaya Performance in a Sam Levinson creation

47:23

it works in euphoria It does not work

47:26

in Malcolm and Marie, which is all right

47:28

the kovid to hand her that she does

47:30

with John David Washington Where

47:33

it's basically just them arguing in black

47:36

and white and a nice LA house

47:38

for you know, 85 minutes doing

47:43

Saying mean things about each other About

47:47

how he stole her career to make a

47:49

hit film Or

47:51

rather stole her life story

47:53

her addiction to make it.

47:55

It's like What's the the

47:57

movie that with the dog? the

48:01

air bud I

48:05

can't remember is what I loved it so much and I

48:07

can't remember the name. Um, tell

48:10

me more Dog starring jenny tater.

48:12

No, it's it's it's um, maybe it's

48:14

german Uh came out

48:16

last year the dog John's

48:23

welcome back to john's movie corner Oh

48:25

my god Wow anatomy of

48:27

a fall. So you're saying it's anatomy

48:31

Malcom memory is anatomy of a fall a

48:33

less successful Version of anatomy

48:35

of fall it's getting a c-minus in the

48:37

anatomy class, but I actually think What

48:41

it what it tells me is that

48:43

ndia needs that room to simmer

48:48

You're just all the way out on

48:50

zendaya the most bankable biggest movie No,

48:52

because no because do you know who

48:54

the otor? Of

48:56

zendaya's career is Law

48:59

roach. Okay Law

49:01

roach law roach zendaya stylist

49:03

who has done Immaculate

49:06

job of making

49:08

zendaya seem aesthetically provocative

49:12

creatively considered A

49:14

regular true a list red

49:17

carpet presence like genuinely

49:19

understood had it take this

49:22

person Form whatever the

49:24

right alliance is that a stylist has to

49:26

form with houses and vintage and vintage dealers

49:29

and so on so forth And

49:31

is inserting zendaya into red

49:34

carpet history and fashion history, which

49:36

is amplifying the narrative of her

49:39

a list celebrity And

49:41

actually doing a lot of work that

49:43

the acting itself is not doing first

49:45

time. I believe that you Look

49:48

at her playing law roach Absolutely

49:52

killing it like an

49:54

a-plus job So

49:57

you liked the tennis themed premiere look

49:59

most of them Most of them

50:01

were good. There were a couple that has

50:03

a concept Yeah, the idea that she was

50:05

wearing basically tennis outfits to the premieres of

50:07

a movie about tennis I mean, they're they're

50:09

artful high-end tennis adjacent outfits and I think

50:11

it's okay to be a tiny bit like

50:15

Little wink especially for a film like this.

50:17

Yeah I mean the whole thing is that

50:19

so I actually don't mind it and if the

50:21

plan is going to be in Every

50:23

cycle of outfits. We're gonna have thematic

50:26

through lines We're gonna tell one big

50:28

story through 10 to 30 outfits

50:31

at various red carpets or press appearances I

50:34

have no problem with that. I think what

50:36

that makes me feel is that Zendaya

50:39

is very multiple clay And

50:43

has it brought at no one

50:45

on a cinematic level except maybe

50:47

Sam Levinson But no

50:49

one really on a cinematic level has

50:51

molded it to powerful effect And

50:54

it's not that there's no raw gift there.

50:56

It's not that beauty period But that's a

50:58

starting point just also I do think there

51:00

can be power in silence I'm giving you

51:03

a hard time about to do it though,

51:05

but it's not that I don't think that

51:07

that's possible She's gonna last a little longer

51:09

than do a leap. I'm gonna I think

51:12

that's safe back next week for that conversation

51:15

But to me what I really really

51:17

want to see is maybe the thing that

51:20

Didn't take off in Malcolm and Mary Which

51:23

is okay? How do you want to simmer fine? But

51:26

simmering just to explode and go

51:28

yeah at the last scene of

51:31

a 90-minute like light

51:33

puffy sex Sports farce and

51:35

to do anything for me. This should

51:37

be a slow burt Like I would

51:40

love to see Zendaya like in

51:42

a Nancy Meyer You know like to

51:44

explore Corners of that

51:47

and grow into something that starts with

51:49

a simmer and then blossoms out of

51:51

that But the simmer for 90 minutes

51:53

straight is a lot to take a

51:57

couple things I think you I think you need the

51:59

moody side, too I think you need the

52:01

angsty side. I don't want to see her in a

52:03

true rom-com Just to

52:05

touch on your fashion theory for

52:07

a moment. I think her stardom

52:09

predates her Fashion

52:12

iconography it does I think her but like

52:14

she's been working with law for Almost

52:17

this entire time sure but I think before

52:19

people knew to look for her on red

52:22

carpets. It was already clear To

52:24

people who had been paying attention or to her

52:27

very young fans Yeah Like I

52:29

think her her you know She's sort of

52:31

on a Olivia Rodrigo trajectory in which like

52:33

she was gonna blow up Until

52:36

she blew up and then everyone who was

52:38

really paying attention mostly young people like whether

52:40

it's spider-man or whatever Whatever you

52:42

knew her from we're like, oh, yeah, we've been waiting for

52:44

you to catch up on Zendaya so

52:46

I think there's that and then just to

52:48

bring it back to the movie and and

52:51

leave it at that I do also think

52:53

it's Important that while she

52:55

seems like the center of this movie and

52:57

while she seems like the star of this

52:59

movie and and the focus of Everyone's attention.

53:01

It is ultimately a love story between the

53:03

two boys and that that's

53:05

given away with the

53:07

sort of punchline of an ending in

53:09

which doesn't matter how the match ends

53:11

they just have to come together because

53:14

They love each other so much and as she says in

53:17

the movie like she was a homewrecker Like

53:19

neither of them are the homewrecker. She

53:21

was also her again Get

53:25

off Zendaya I Understand

53:27

that that is what the film

53:29

is trying to communicate. I

53:32

do not think the film effectively That's

53:35

a different thing. I understand that that's the

53:37

takeaway, but it does not effectively do that

53:40

If because you were too focused

53:42

on whether or not she was

53:44

working No, I don't think that

53:46

there is sufficient Emotional or narrative

53:48

buildup in even the art

53:51

you remove Zendaya sure If

53:53

it's a love story between art and Patrick, I

53:55

want to see way more built. I want to

53:58

see way less ambiguity Frankly,

54:00

instead, it kind of takes this, um,

54:02

germinal moment of like, we're kissing because

54:04

we're sort of like tussling for the affections

54:06

of the same woman, but actually we're

54:08

expressing some kind of repressed tension between

54:10

each other. Well, you get the, you

54:12

get the masturbation story before that, which

54:14

leads to the, to the bake out.

54:16

Cause you do get, you get that

54:18

fine. And then you get the sauna

54:20

on the back end, but on the back,

54:23

but in between almost nothing, really what

54:25

you have is a store, you have

54:27

two things happening in between. You have

54:29

the story of Zendaya and art, which

54:31

feels a frosty and

54:34

unpleasant and loveless and

54:36

in curious. And like,

54:39

I guess they have kids, but I don't even know if they liked the

54:41

kids. I don't know if they like each other, you know,

54:44

grandma, grandma's there. Like I just,

54:47

nothing of joy is happening. And

54:49

then you have this sort of

54:51

tragic Patrick sleeping in his car,

54:53

cosplaying poverty, although apparently comes from

54:55

some kind of like financially supported

54:58

situations. The real takeaway is the

55:00

most common kind of sociopath that

55:02

we encounter every day. One, one,

55:05

secret rich people and two people

55:07

overly competitive about their youth sports

55:09

days. I mean, honestly, it's all

55:11

nine square. I love, I

55:13

love both. I love both times. See y'all

55:16

outside. Um, and so none

55:19

of that in the middle holds water.

55:21

And yes, by the time you get

55:23

to the sauna, like, obviously I know

55:25

that's where you're going back to, but

55:28

why are there not five more things

55:30

in between then? It's because the film

55:32

isn't particularly concerned with convincing you that

55:34

these two have complicated history. It's only,

55:37

it's only concerned with showing you their

55:39

beauty. It's concerned with making you the

55:41

viewer long for them. And obviously if

55:43

you're doing that artfully, you're longing for

55:46

them as a proxy for the longing

55:48

that's happening amongst the characters on screen.

55:50

But there's a barely any longing to,

55:52

to, to note amongst the characters on

55:55

screen. I think it's only longing for

55:57

each other. Like I was actually surprised.

56:00

seeing this movie that people were talking

56:02

about it as if you're like lusting

56:04

for them, any of

56:06

the three of them really. I think it's

56:09

about them lusting for Zendaya, the Tashi

56:11

character, and it's about them lusting for

56:13

each other. And the time that I

56:15

felt like that landed the best is

56:17

in the Turo scene, right? Which

56:20

we homaged last week. And

56:26

the sugar is all over his face and the other

56:28

guy is sort of swiping at it, how close they

56:30

are the way he pulls up the stairs. And

56:35

that puppy dog-ness I

56:37

felt really landed in

56:40

the cold reality of the Stanford dining

56:42

hall. You're talking 45 seconds

56:44

of like a 90 minute movie or a two

56:46

hour movie. That's all you need. No, it actually

56:48

is not true. It's actually not true. I

56:51

didn't know you hated Challenger so much. I'm

56:55

let down. I'm disappointed. I'm

56:57

left cold. That's

56:59

probably the most damning indictment is I'm left

57:01

cold. Was it all the hard tech now?

57:04

No, actually we should talk about the

57:06

music. We got to talk about music.

57:08

So Trent Razzner and Adzakis Ross, The

57:11

Goats, turning. That's

57:14

the other thing. It's like they're also being funny.

57:16

Yeah. Which I like.

57:18

The use of music was incredibly

57:20

hilarious. And I don't

57:22

think of them as funny people. They're

57:24

funny music. We

57:27

have like a whole, I guess, depending how you look

57:29

at it. There's a lot of humor in Nine Inch

57:31

Nails, I think. Is that true? Looking back.

57:35

I don't know. That feels like trauma to me. Both.

57:38

Yes, fair. Music

57:41

deployed, I thought, to

57:43

incredible effect. Like really the

57:45

thing that almost many times where I

57:47

felt like I'm just like looking at a screen like these

57:50

people, then somebody would

57:52

be like, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom,

57:54

zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom. And

57:56

I was like, yeah, slow down

57:58

Tron. All right. be

58:01

easy start that I

58:03

thought was really really effective. Should

58:05

we go out more and no, no, no,

58:07

no more emotionally effective character than any of

58:09

the other. Yeah, and all all worked together

58:11

to me. No, we shouldn't go out there

58:13

because I found something in my research gives

58:15

in days early days. I was doing some

58:17

deep digs in the IMDB. I'm

58:20

going to be candid. I haven't seen that much of shake

58:22

it up. I haven't

58:24

seen that much. I've seen more Casey undercover right

58:26

then of shake it up. Um,

58:28

but when it's going back deep

58:31

in the IMDB, I came across some collaborative

58:33

work between Zendaya and

58:36

Bella Thorne. Wow. And

58:38

the three dates her duet with Dominic Fyke

58:40

sure does. So

58:42

there were a few music videos Zendaya

58:46

had a few like hits as a musician

58:48

replay. I think was one of the Hollywood

58:50

Records. Yeah, of course. I'm almost sure as

58:52

Hollywood Records, but this

58:54

song really does tie the look

58:56

together ties the room together. This

58:59

is Bella Thorne and Zendaya singing

59:02

fashion is me a kryptonite. Some

59:30

people just know the best rate for you

59:32

is a rate based on you with all state

59:34

not a rate based on Terry who keeps and

59:38

makes the car behind them. Oh,

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no, they're about to save

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with drive wise and all state act and only

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pay a rate based on you. Not

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available in every state such as the terms and conditions rating

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factors and savings vary and in some states your rate could

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increase with high-risk driving. All State Fire and Casualty Insurance Company

59:57

and affiliates Northbrook, Illinois. Welcome

1:00:00

back. It's popcast deluxe. I'm

1:00:02

john. I'm joe, uh youtube.com/popcast,

1:00:05

uh, like and

1:00:07

subscribe especially

1:00:09

for the heat rocks of the week, uh songs

1:00:13

of the week category Uh first

1:00:15

we are going to talk about the biggest song

1:00:17

of the week. Yep. Or what seems Well

1:00:19

the biggest song of the week not made by kendrick

1:00:21

lamarr. Yeah, I guess maybe I should do so We'll

1:00:24

start with that that is posting alone

1:00:26

and morgan wallen Is

1:00:50

This is a extraordinarily

1:00:52

big and Raveingly

1:00:54

made pop country crossover

1:00:56

song These are the

1:00:58

kinds of songs that are on the

1:01:00

one hand smoothing post

1:01:03

Malone's Path towards

1:01:05

country music as a potential avenue

1:01:07

These are also the sorts of

1:01:09

songs that are smoothing morgan wallen's

1:01:11

path towards pop ubiquity in spite

1:01:13

of The challenging couple of years

1:01:15

that he had after he was

1:01:17

captured saying a racial

1:01:19

epithet on video Uh though

1:01:22

that has not Adversely

1:01:24

impacted his career morgan wallen

1:01:26

meet post Malone. So This

1:01:29

song was being teased for quite a while.

1:01:31

Yep Before morgan

1:01:33

wallen threw a chair off of uh,

1:01:35

forget falcony. That's true. Morgan wallen was

1:01:38

either challenging two or three weeks Also,

1:01:40

you haven't you've seen these morgan wallen

1:01:42

tick tock walkout videos or haven't

1:01:45

I Guess in the spirit of the little

1:01:48

yachty walking out on stage and looking cool

1:01:50

Like someone at some concert on this current

1:01:52

wallen tour There's a video of wallen walking

1:01:54

out and like, you know, like high five

1:01:57

in and like sure and like like yarik

1:01:59

has been doing Yeah, I think the

1:02:01

Obama the O'Vons with him maybe beyond re

1:02:03

Hopkins maybe okay. I'm making that yeah I

1:02:05

was like, you know who that is No,

1:02:08

but like sure the Andre Hopkins or a

1:02:10

person who is in the same millions. Yeah,

1:02:12

Hopkins is with them But

1:02:14

now there's like, you know, um team tick tock

1:02:17

was like random people When

1:02:30

you said wall and walk out I

1:02:32

wrongly thought you meant like people were

1:02:34

like protests. Yeah, while it shows Yes,

1:02:37

because he put the people of Nashville having been

1:02:39

to the chair having been to a few while

1:02:41

and shows I can assure you No one's walking.

1:02:44

No one is walking a long

1:02:46

show What do you make

1:02:48

of this song? musically Forget

1:02:51

about bigger pop. First of all post

1:02:53

one also Third big

1:02:55

quote-unquote country collaboration of the year. Well,

1:02:57

I was gonna say this beyond a

1:02:59

failure for in Post Malone's What's the

1:03:02

plan for taking over the world? What's

1:03:04

my 24 phase one was performing at

1:03:06

the Super Bowl? Oh sure. Just yes

1:03:09

Phase two a Beyonce feature phase

1:03:11

three a Taylor feature not a country

1:03:13

song But

1:03:17

yes Country enough and then

1:03:19

here we are. We have landed

1:03:22

in Nashville and Post Malone has taken

1:03:26

Everybody in town who knows how to

1:03:28

make a perfect record and put them

1:03:30

all to work The

1:03:33

songs are in with Ashley Gorley The

1:03:35

song was written with earnest a

1:03:38

longtime collaborator of more wall and

1:03:40

a podcaster Louie Bell is

1:03:42

here That's Post Malone's right hand man and they've

1:03:45

like they nailed it You know what I mean like people

1:03:49

When they stretch to do

1:03:51

a phase three of their career and

1:03:53

they're like, oh, you know,

1:03:56

I've mastered x hip-hop I mastered

1:03:58

why writing pop audio podcast Yeah,

1:04:01

now I'm going to Z. Video podcasting,

1:04:03

like and subscribe. Usually it's a stretch

1:04:05

and it might not be done. It

1:04:08

might seem like a copy of the thing.

1:04:11

Whereas this feels like

1:04:13

it feels lived in in the way that

1:04:15

it's supposed to. It's like, it's

1:04:18

a radio record. It's not- Huge radio

1:04:20

record. Yeah, it's not like, this isn't

1:04:22

Hank, you know what I mean? But

1:04:24

like, it doesn't have to be because

1:04:26

these guys know how to make smashes

1:04:28

in different sounds and

1:04:30

this is the sound they chose. Although

1:04:33

I- But I also think

1:04:35

it underscores the fact that making

1:04:37

a Morgan Wallen smash and making

1:04:39

a Post Malone smash are not

1:04:41

really that different propositions. Whereas even

1:04:43

five to 10 years ago, you

1:04:46

would think, okay, the biggest or

1:04:49

poppiest country record sitting

1:04:51

next to the poppiest pop or

1:04:54

hip hop pop record, there'd be

1:04:56

enough, there's enough

1:04:58

space between them that you really

1:05:00

hear the genre, you

1:05:03

hear the baskets of genre. But you

1:05:06

don't hear that at all because you don't hear

1:05:08

it on Wallen albums and you don't hear it

1:05:10

on Post Malone. I mean, obviously the malleability of

1:05:12

Post Malone, the sort of permanent

1:05:16

lack of identification, like the chameleonic

1:05:18

tendencies. Sure, but that's just a

1:05:20

person moving them. I mean, the

1:05:22

master of melody. If

1:05:24

he's known for anything now, it's like

1:05:26

writing a melodic phrase or

1:05:29

singing a melodic phrase that is going

1:05:31

to work for millions

1:05:33

upon millions of people. He's so

1:05:35

good at it and

1:05:37

I think his performance here is among

1:05:40

the best that he's had in many

1:05:43

years since the start of

1:05:45

his career. I think it's better than

1:05:47

both the Taylor and Beyonce feature. Oh

1:05:50

yeah, he saved his best stuff for

1:05:52

himself. Okay,

1:05:54

so in this video, this is a very country

1:05:56

video. In the sense, yes, but

1:05:59

in the inside. Even just in

1:06:01

the aesthetics of how the camera works American.

1:06:03

Yes. Well, that's the thing So the American

1:06:05

flag fancy cameras for a country video It

1:06:08

is fancy cameras, but the shots feel very

1:06:10

much of a piece with contemporary country videos

1:06:13

But the American flag and so

1:06:15

we're not going to spend the umpteen

1:06:17

time umpteen amount of time about Politics

1:06:20

and genre. No, this is firmly

1:06:22

a political it is But it

1:06:25

is striking that Post Malone a

1:06:27

white singer who found

1:06:29

initial fame essentially

1:06:32

doing Hip-hop

1:06:35

informed Ambient soul

1:06:38

You know, we're making all this up

1:06:41

But essentially who was working within black

1:06:43

cultural norms to become popular is now

1:06:45

like I am going to make a

1:06:47

country song or a country Pop song

1:06:49

with the biggest country artist who has

1:06:52

a checkered past and we are going

1:06:54

to use This incredibly

1:06:56

bright symbol that you will

1:06:58

not find Anywhere in the

1:07:00

music videos of the people who I grew

1:07:02

up making music with that to

1:07:05

me is maybe the most striking thing That's happening

1:07:07

in this video. Obviously it exists

1:07:09

to sell beer it

1:07:11

exists to play at Sporting

1:07:13

events it exists for commercials, but

1:07:16

I don't think that that flag

1:07:18

is a mistake That's not a

1:07:20

casual error using that flag.

1:07:23

So I think it's striking I think I'll be

1:07:25

curious to know how that plays out six months

1:07:27

twelve months twenty four months down the line

1:07:30

I'm again gonna rewind to the Super

1:07:33

Bowl, you know, there's no more There's no

1:07:35

bigger American flag than the one Post Malone

1:07:37

played against at the super, you know, it's

1:07:39

like I thought you're gonna rewind Did you

1:07:41

all Santana wearing a whole American flag outfit

1:07:44

which post Malone is probably also

1:07:46

familiar? Yeah, I don't think that they meant the same

1:07:49

What do you think you all say it as American

1:07:52

flag man We're

1:07:55

gonna do that not

1:07:58

today, okay that we'll save it in

1:08:00

all her future episodes. Yeah, the

1:08:02

meanings of Juelz Santana's sartorial experiment.

1:08:04

Yes. The higher the bandana,

1:08:07

the closer to God. I

1:08:09

often say. I'm always saying. This

1:08:12

is the number one record. There's no question about

1:08:15

it. Unless the Kendrick Ricker really holds on. I

1:08:18

don't think it's going to hang on quite as

1:08:20

long as this one. No. I mean, look, the

1:08:22

persistence of Morgan Wallin, like the two

1:08:25

albums still in the top five or

1:08:27

top six of the Billboard album charts for

1:08:29

years and years and years. There

1:08:32

is evident appetite. One

1:08:34

thing about Post Malone is he understands

1:08:36

the mechanics of the streaming era better

1:08:39

than almost any musician in any genre.

1:08:41

And so I wouldn't be surprised if on some

1:08:43

level, a year ago or 18

1:08:46

months ago, he was looking and saying, OK, well,

1:08:48

who's streaming really well that I don't work with?

1:08:51

And it's this guy. I mean,

1:08:53

the fact that the fact that

1:08:55

the Venn diagram now of Beyonce,

1:08:58

Taylor, and Morgan Wallin is just

1:09:00

Post Malone, couldn't

1:09:04

ask to be in a better position than

1:09:06

this guy has put himself in. And again,

1:09:08

I think he's mostly done it. Like say

1:09:11

what you will about the moves and the use

1:09:14

of genre and the

1:09:16

whitening, the re-whitening, whatever you want to

1:09:18

say. The thing that I

1:09:21

think all these people like and respect about him

1:09:23

the most is that he knows how to write

1:09:25

and sing a song. Might

1:09:28

just be that simple, if you say so. You

1:09:31

first for recommendation or me? Why

1:09:34

don't you go? What do you got this

1:09:36

week? All right, it's not a new song,

1:09:38

but it is a new. It's new to

1:09:40

most people. It's new to most. Fair. We

1:09:43

live in different times. We live in different

1:09:45

planes. Here's the thing.

1:09:48

If you've been following our ongoing

1:09:50

coverage of the contemporary rap

1:09:52

underground, you know you've

1:09:55

been hearing us talk about Zeevee or

1:09:57

so based and Yalpo JJ and of

1:09:59

course Netz. But you're probably aware

1:10:01

if you're if you're tapped in with

1:10:03

us if you're tapped in with onks on

1:10:05

that subject matter You're

1:10:08

probably aware Ian the

1:10:10

one-time Clemson rugby

1:10:12

player Who proves that

1:10:15

you or I or anyone

1:10:17

can be eat if we try harden? Mm-hmm, and

1:10:19

I know that sounds like an insult, but I

1:10:21

don't mean it as an insult Ian

1:10:24

has had an interesting run in the last

1:10:27

and I Didn't mean

1:10:29

that to be shady. It's just you know, it's

1:10:32

had an interesting hand interesting, right? I didn't mean

1:10:34

it's shady In

1:10:36

the last like two months especially Although

1:10:39

I did a bit of a dive on

1:10:41

his Spotify and there's got a lot of

1:10:43

song 30 song. Yes He's not

1:10:46

an industry plan. He's been working hard unless

1:10:48

they were planting very early But

1:10:51

yes, he's been working hard the garden. The

1:10:53

garden is sewed Very

1:10:55

much look that's in a perfect world if we

1:10:57

have a random label You'd never know who we

1:11:00

planted. Let's just put it like that Okay,

1:11:03

so this song there's a new video.

1:11:05

It's Cole Bennett video, which tells

1:11:07

you all the money's kicked in

1:11:09

Everything's moved. It'll ensure Cole gave a discount This

1:11:13

is for figure it out because they're brothers

1:11:19

So figure it out this is the song and

1:11:21

if you don't know figure it out You do

1:11:23

know my big brother like Marshawn Lynch. He'll run

1:11:26

through somebody This

1:11:29

is what color I'm filling today. I got it to

1:11:31

do for a while Feeling like what I'm doing is

1:11:33

probably a step in and never do something like Put

1:11:36

it like Marshawn Lynch. It won't do something like If

1:11:38

you didn't come with me on a bad day, I'm

1:11:40

so perfect, you can ruin my instinct The driver goes

1:11:42

straight to the deck. How could I ever be late

1:11:44

to the airplane? Ian rolled

1:11:47

out this video with a few

1:11:49

Instagram or TikTok clips including

1:11:51

of him Traveling to find Marshawn

1:11:53

Lynch like going to Oakland to like try to

1:11:56

find Marshawn Lynch There was a video two or

1:11:58

three days ago, so it seemed obvious So that

1:12:00

was a setup for a video like this. It's

1:12:03

pretty straightforward. It seems like they filmed it in about 90

1:12:05

minutes. Again, meant

1:12:07

with love, meant warmly. But

1:12:10

Ian, to me, I find

1:12:13

to be a rapper

1:12:15

who has a good

1:12:17

ear for catch phrases and

1:12:20

understands the technology that allows you

1:12:22

to take something like an ordinary

1:12:24

vocal and make it

1:12:26

sound quite extraordinary with, I

1:12:29

assume, not that much

1:12:31

technological intervention. Just

1:12:33

the yeet pack of

1:12:35

effects, quite possibly. But it's

1:12:38

interesting now that you don't

1:12:40

need a yeet to

1:12:42

be a yeet. It's like you can have another

1:12:44

person or you can have that style. You're a

1:12:46

fan of the style, ultimately. And

1:12:48

Ian is funny. He

1:12:51

is self-aware. He

1:12:54

is charismatic, but also

1:12:56

not over the top. And

1:12:59

who knows? 500

1:13:02

people know about this. We're in the weeds here. But

1:13:07

to me, this is

1:13:09

where I know every A&R is figuring

1:13:11

out, oh, also Ian is white. How

1:13:15

do we get this far? Was that

1:13:17

implied when I said he was Colbennett's

1:13:19

brother? Of course. But yes, Ian is

1:13:22

white, athletic, not floppy

1:13:24

hair. Yeah, great,

1:13:26

real little taper fate. He's

1:13:30

not your typical rap star, as it

1:13:32

were. But he's making

1:13:34

songs that, in my

1:13:36

mind, could be typical rap hits, particularly

1:13:38

in the current moment. It'll

1:13:41

be really interesting to see which

1:13:43

label is trying to rise to the challenge

1:13:45

of doing this in a responsible way and

1:13:47

doing this in a thoughtful way to

1:13:50

not turn it into Lil Mabu. Whole

1:13:53

separate conversation. But I

1:13:56

wonder if it's possible to

1:13:58

do it responsibly. the thing that

1:14:00

I think the main question is.

1:14:02

But I think he's really talented. I think

1:14:05

the songs are mostly really good, especially the more

1:14:07

recent stuff. If you go back to 2022, still

1:14:11

trying to find the style. But I think somewhere

1:14:13

last year, found a style and

1:14:16

found a style where you have these

1:14:18

pull out catch phrases. I made a reference about it

1:14:20

on show a few weeks ago about

1:14:23

all times. I think, forgive me. I'm

1:14:25

just saying this has been the songs

1:14:27

been stuck in your head since the

1:14:30

from the dinner table. Yes. From even

1:14:32

before the dinner table video, you know,

1:14:34

but he got every symptom. You

1:14:37

know, you can have these are very

1:14:39

tested. These are very Instagram captionable. Talk

1:14:42

about talk about a throwback. Well there's

1:14:45

now there's now a job available there

1:14:47

for top Instagram caption writer. But I

1:14:49

remember speaking with Drake out of the

1:14:51

paint. But I remember seeing like it

1:14:53

was like a new cycle on like

1:14:55

all the websites and IG accounts that

1:14:58

follow this scene. It was like a

1:15:00

new cycle when Drake followed Ian on

1:15:02

Instagram. Yeah, like this is a thing

1:15:04

that is happening is moving in some

1:15:06

way. I'm intrigued because I

1:15:09

wonder if this is going to end

1:15:11

up being the poppy breakthrough for

1:15:13

the yeet or posty sound that

1:15:15

never that even though it's successful,

1:15:18

we're quite crossover in the biggest

1:15:20

sense. But maybe given a figure

1:15:23

like this, we'll have a different out.

1:15:25

You know, the thing with you is he's

1:15:27

like, don't look at me. Don't perceive me. And

1:15:30

he is like, please, please, please perceive me.

1:15:32

What do you got this week? I got

1:15:34

central C. Hey, central C

1:15:36

is back. Seems to have

1:15:38

an album cooking. This

1:15:40

is CC freestyle. And it

1:15:42

says short. It's short. Short

1:15:44

is shorter than the install. Yeah, it's

1:15:47

always like a minute and 20 seconds.

1:15:49

This is a tossed off YouTube video.

1:15:51

It's a freestyle tossed off. Well,

1:15:54

this is this is the thing. It's meant

1:15:56

to seem tossed off. It feels a little

1:15:58

he feels a little nervous. almost. You

1:16:00

think? And I think one of the

1:16:02

reasons is because he's trying to

1:16:04

start a beef and or

1:16:07

continuing an ongoing beef depending on

1:16:09

how many... Not with Natalin. No

1:16:12

with Diggity who's currently incarcerated. Depends

1:16:15

on how closely you

1:16:17

follow UK drill YouTube

1:16:19

pages. You could find

1:16:21

out about the substance or alleged substance of

1:16:23

this beef. This song goes

1:16:25

on for as long as it takes to make

1:16:27

a cup of tea. At

1:16:30

the beginning he asks for one so you

1:16:32

know you're in the UK and then by the end he's

1:16:34

sipping the tea. I have tea at the house. You

1:16:37

don't have tea like Sench has tea in this condo or

1:16:39

whatever. I think it's telling

1:16:48

when this song came out. Albums

1:16:50

coming. Drake and Kendrick is the

1:16:52

biggest thing in the world. Look everyone is gonna be beefing

1:16:54

for the next 18. You and

1:16:56

I are gonna be beefing. If we want

1:16:58

this YouTube channel to take off we're gonna

1:17:01

start a beef. And we're

1:17:04

gonna hash it out live

1:17:06

on youtube.com/popcast like subscribe

1:17:08

and comment. He says some

1:17:10

funny stuff in this freestyle. He's wearing a G unit shirt. That's

1:17:12

the real tell. Drake's

1:17:14

on the G Unit chain and family

1:17:16

matters. He's

1:17:22

basically saying over and over

1:17:24

again again in a Drake-like way I'm the

1:17:27

most popular out of the UK. Second

1:17:30

biggest writer to JK Rowling according

1:17:32

to the end of this freestyle.

1:17:34

Again weird flex but okay. But

1:17:36

he just keeps saying like I've

1:17:38

crossed over basically like they might

1:17:41

know you around the ends but they know

1:17:43

me overseas. Which

1:17:46

is not that different from the core substance

1:17:48

of the Drake Kendrick beef. But

1:17:51

then he's doing this I think he's doing

1:17:53

both the forward-looking thing and the backward-looking thing

1:17:55

because he's doing this over the flukes. I

1:17:58

have nothing. flip,

1:18:00

which is a crime flip,

1:18:03

the late aughts. And

1:18:05

so he's sort of looking backwards, UK

1:18:08

rap and saying, now I'm taking it to

1:18:11

America, basically. But he's doing

1:18:14

that while trying to sort of use

1:18:17

beef to, I

1:18:19

think, rile the faithful, the sort of

1:18:21

people care about the inner

1:18:24

workings of the UK scene and

1:18:26

think of C as the

1:18:28

ambassador for that in

1:18:31

an outward looking way. So I think it's an

1:18:33

interesting move. We'll

1:18:35

see how that plays. I don't know if

1:18:38

an American audience cares about the beef necessarily.

1:18:40

It doesn't feel aimed for an American audience.

1:18:42

I mean, this is the thing, like the

1:18:45

earliest central C stuff that did

1:18:47

get traction in America didn't

1:18:50

feel targeted to America, but was very

1:18:52

legible to an American audience. A song

1:18:54

like Doja, exactly about an American. Yes.

1:18:56

And like the two or three songs

1:18:58

prior to that were still kind of

1:19:01

like, you felt like you

1:19:03

can participate in it without knowing the backstory.

1:19:05

This is not that this is

1:19:07

purely a backstory record. And I think

1:19:09

you're right. It's purely for the faithful.

1:19:11

I think it exists. If

1:19:15

you are trying to maintain

1:19:17

relevance, primacy, you're doing this on a lot

1:19:19

of levels. You're doing it in town.

1:19:21

You're doing it out of town. You're doing it

1:19:24

amongst your friends. You're doing it amongst your enemies.

1:19:27

This is one portion of what I

1:19:29

imagine is a very big plant. I'm

1:19:31

sure that on the back of this,

1:19:33

there's like a big dumb sample pop,

1:19:36

you know, pop postural record, like just waiting for

1:19:38

an ice spice collab, something like that. I'm sure

1:19:41

it's just around the corner. And what's funny about

1:19:43

this is that it's for all the dogs. Yeah.

1:19:45

But it's funny that it still has that it's

1:19:47

doing a grime thing, but it also has a

1:19:49

Whitney Houston sample, you know, so it's like it's

1:19:52

trying to be both. And then the real tell

1:19:54

to me is the hard coded subtitles. The lyrics

1:19:56

are on the screen in the video. Yeah,

1:20:03

it's the YouTube equivalent of a street record, but

1:20:05

because it's Central Sea, it could

1:20:07

be bigger than that. And I think

1:20:09

you're right that we'll have the other

1:20:11

shoe to drop as he moves towards

1:20:13

presumably taking over the world this summer.

1:20:16

So this is CC Freestyle. It's

1:20:31

Bobcastalux, it's Snapchat in which Joe and

1:20:33

I consume a snack and also just fill in

1:20:36

some things,

1:20:54

fill in some gaps on our respective weekends

1:20:56

and things that we've caught and have done

1:20:58

recently. I haven't had shit to talk

1:21:01

about on Deluxe. First of all, what

1:21:03

we're having today, Takis,

1:21:05

not a personal favorite of mine,

1:21:09

Buck and Ranch flavor. I got

1:21:11

to be honest, ranch is a flavor profile

1:21:14

that I do not commune with. This

1:21:16

is an insane take. Are

1:21:19

you not an American? I am from Brooklyn,

1:21:21

New York. No,

1:21:23

we did not grow up eating ranch

1:21:25

flavored names. It's

1:21:29

not. No,

1:21:34

none of this was being consumed

1:21:36

in Brooklyn, New York in the

1:21:38

70s, 80s or 90s. That

1:21:40

didn't happen. Not real. And

1:21:42

again, I don't mean to be all like, I

1:21:44

don't mean to get a state on you. No,

1:21:52

but I am. But also that,

1:21:55

but also that I'm going to go

1:21:57

ahead and say Hidden Valley had plenty

1:21:59

of market. a chair in your zip

1:22:01

code. I don't even know what that

1:22:03

is. Okay. I

1:22:05

will say, so this color scheme, it's

1:22:08

giving a late 90s NBA team,

1:22:10

which is fine. But we

1:22:13

can't, which team are you thinking of? The

1:22:16

Charlotte Hornets. No,

1:22:19

but yes. Yes. Close.

1:22:21

Sure. Fine. Yeah. Pelicans. No, no. I mean,

1:22:23

the Pelicans didn't exist. Anything's in the late

1:22:25

90s. Right. No, Charlotte Hornet, this purple or

1:22:28

whatever. Oh, you're talking about the purple, but

1:22:30

the purple is pure Takis branding. Cause that's

1:22:32

what, you know, the, the main Takis is

1:22:34

the, is the purple bag, the foil bag.

1:22:37

And these, I specifically, I liked this and

1:22:39

I actually bought these for you because they

1:22:41

are advertised as non spicy.

1:22:44

It says it on the package. Like,

1:22:46

you know, like, spicy about me. I'm

1:22:48

right. That's true. Like,

1:22:50

you know, in the Takis

1:22:52

boardrooms, they're getting a

1:22:54

lot of man, we're killing it with the people

1:22:56

who want Flamin' Hot. Like we invented Flamin' Hot.

1:22:58

You know, they're like, yeah, we're, we are the

1:23:00

real Flamin' Hot. What about John? But

1:23:03

like, oh, but we hear this, we

1:23:06

hear this on every, on every survey.

1:23:08

It's like, it's too spicy. Yeah. Like,

1:23:11

you know, it's not spicy baby

1:23:13

blue. You know, it's not spicy ranch. And

1:23:15

that's how we landed here. All right. Also

1:23:17

just like the little like sprinkles of green

1:23:20

and red in the men. Boss.

1:23:23

What do you think is in ranch? Do

1:23:25

you know what ranch flavor is? Spices.

1:23:29

Yes. There are spices.

1:23:33

Oh, that's gross. You

1:23:37

really coming in with a bad attitude, but I think you

1:23:39

might like it. No, I'm an open hearted critic. That

1:23:42

was all send to critical reaction. That's,

1:23:45

that's an authentic critical reaction. Yeah. Um,

1:23:48

Oh geez. All right. Oh, there's so much flavor

1:23:51

though. Look at all that dust. Is

1:23:53

you like cool ranch Doritos? I do

1:23:56

like cool ranch Doritos. I am okay

1:23:58

with what's like in work. in

1:24:00

that in that flavor Doritos

1:24:04

I know why I'm going so hard on

1:24:06

you for this okay it's fine you're okay

1:24:09

John Caramonica doesn't like

1:24:11

ranch doesn't like Zendaya we

1:24:13

might have to expel you from the nation can

1:24:17

we talk about something more positive well yeah yeah

1:24:19

trying to get through this say something you like

1:24:22

first of all I went to the Andover shop last week which

1:24:24

is not important to you but like maybe just a hundred

1:24:26

people out there I went to the actual Andover shop that was

1:24:28

a good time had a great time at the

1:24:31

Museum of Natural History they opened up

1:24:33

an exhibit of like hip-hop jewelry it's

1:24:36

a bit incomplete full of small

1:24:40

it's in the gems room or like

1:24:42

the fine rocks room or whatever it's

1:24:44

called ice cold based

1:24:47

on the Vicky Toba yes kind of Vicky

1:24:49

was involved in the curation of

1:24:51

this as well that's

1:24:53

a big-ass book it is a big-ass book

1:24:55

and one of the things they

1:24:57

have is T pains big-ass chain which

1:25:00

I have a photo of we'll show there

1:25:03

were a few things in there that thought

1:25:05

really interesting they have ghost faces eagle arm

1:25:08

bracelet like the big oversized bracelet with the eagle

1:25:10

on it I'm enjoying crunching over you come

1:25:14

on tastes exactly like the Doritos no

1:25:17

it's a rolled up the Dorito there's

1:25:19

something about this wrong it's like more

1:25:21

unctuous or something oh my god here's

1:25:23

the thing Doritos cool ranch is

1:25:25

like a salt if oh yeah you think cooler

1:25:28

that's it that's a guy that John takes a

1:25:30

job thanks cool ranch Doritos are spikes they are

1:25:32

spicy but

1:25:36

there's like a scabrousness to

1:25:38

the spice of a core sure does not have

1:25:40

this this is like much more

1:25:42

um it's more umami way more

1:25:44

thank you that's the word I was looking for anyway

1:25:47

they have the ghost face

1:25:49

armlets they have like

1:25:52

a camp like a dip set piece they have

1:25:54

a tire of the crater the

1:25:56

kind of bellman piece bellman neck

1:25:59

piece got some ASAP Rocky

1:26:01

stuff. They

1:26:03

also have a

1:26:06

fully diamond covered raucous

1:26:09

logo piece, not sacrilegious in

1:26:11

some way. Exactly. Frankly, I

1:26:13

could probably write an entire

1:26:15

book just about that piece.

1:26:17

Obviously, there were some special things

1:26:19

in there. It's

1:26:22

very small, unfortunately. I mean, there's stuff

1:26:24

that's from like two years ago and

1:26:26

stuff from 30 years ago. It's just

1:26:28

such rich subject matter that I know

1:26:31

that there's hopefully an opportunity to do

1:26:33

something that's even more comprehensive down the

1:26:35

line. I'm happy to see that stuff

1:26:38

getting this attention. Problem

1:26:40

is that it's all in

1:26:42

Drake's house. Or

1:26:46

as Lil Jon told us, he melted it down.

1:26:48

It's true. Melted down the

1:26:50

crunk-a-dead chain. I think a lot of

1:26:52

this stuff either no longer exists or

1:26:54

is really hard. Respectfully, to get a

1:26:56

dead chain should be at the Smithsonian.

1:26:59

Instead, he melted it down. Anyway, what are

1:27:01

you going to do? I did that. I

1:27:04

went to the Andover shop. Now, why

1:27:08

is it creamy? It's

1:27:10

rich. What'd you do? I

1:27:15

just wanted to get one take off before we go.

1:27:17

We did not talk about the new I Spy song

1:27:19

and the songs of the week segment. Give me the

1:27:22

light. Give me a light? Sorry, my

1:27:24

love. Using Give

1:27:26

Me The Light. Sawball. Not a ball.

1:27:29

But this is a

1:27:32

song, like all songs

1:27:34

these days, teased in

1:27:37

a snippet. When the

1:27:41

song finally came

1:27:50

out with the music video, everyone

1:27:52

was like, oh, why doesn't it sound

1:27:54

like the snippet? Which

1:28:01

is also what we had with the Tommy Richmond

1:28:03

song, Million Dollar Baby. What

1:28:05

Million Dollar Baby did was it released a

1:28:08

clean version and then the VHS version,

1:28:10

which was the blown out version. In

1:28:12

the I Spy snippet, she's blasting

1:28:15

the song at such a volume that the

1:28:17

speakers are clipping and it's... Add

1:28:19

the bag back because I'm going to make a point using the bag when you're done. Alright,

1:28:21

I thought you were going to go back for more. I'm

1:28:25

making a point. Absolutely not. Fine.

1:28:27

I think instead of sped up versions, we're

1:28:30

going to start getting blown out versions because

1:28:32

the thing that the I Spy snippet and

1:28:34

the Tommy Richmond snippet do so well other

1:28:36

than making the song novel with

1:28:38

the lo-fi sound is that

1:28:40

they recreate the feeling of hearing it for

1:28:42

the first time in the studio with your

1:28:45

friends or in a car as soon as

1:28:47

the song's

1:28:49

finished. It's a jump in the car. It's a jolt. Wakes

1:28:52

you up. It works on the scroll. And

1:28:54

I think labels, if they're

1:28:57

not already doing it, are cooking up how

1:29:00

to release blown out versions of

1:29:02

every big song. It's the retention

1:29:04

editing a la Mr. Beast.

1:29:06

It's the retention editing of contemporary

1:29:08

pop production. And I think sped up

1:29:10

versions are so yesterday, blown

1:29:13

out versions, so tomorrow. Big

1:29:16

take. These are great,

1:29:18

by the way. Everybody a label who's about to rip that

1:29:20

off, you're welcome. OK, I

1:29:22

do want to say there's one truthful

1:29:24

thing happening on this factory. So

1:29:27

you see it has the rolled up tortilla chip and

1:29:30

it has this. What's this? It's ranch.

1:29:34

It's a tornado of ranch dressing. Litter

1:29:37

can't believe I was like, what is this? They're

1:29:39

like, it's ranch. That's like the Nardwar interview

1:29:41

was like, how do you keep your pants

1:29:44

on on stage? And the person was belt.

1:29:47

Thank you. Yes, it's ranch. Thank

1:29:49

you. This

1:29:52

you would look at this and you say, ah,

1:29:54

it's like dipping a tortilla chip in a

1:29:57

wet thing and actually eating is

1:29:59

like. What if the wet thing

1:30:01

was inside the tortilla chip and had

1:30:03

been there so long that actually made

1:30:06

the tortilla chip low-key moist That's

1:30:10

what the sensation of eating this was I think

1:30:12

it's fine credible science incredible technology

1:30:15

Literally got nothing on a cool

1:30:17

ranch Dorito a true spicy classic

1:30:20

It has nothing on it at all I

1:30:24

Wouldn't not eat these at a

1:30:26

party, but I would not be

1:30:28

happy nor would I voluntarily Purchase

1:30:30

them to bring to a party as

1:30:32

a representation like for the candy salad

1:30:34

when everybody shows up I

1:30:37

wouldn't go to a lot of candy candy salad parties

1:30:39

I'm simply saying I would not

1:30:41

bring this to the chip salad party. This would not

1:30:43

be what I bring But I

1:30:45

can see myself having a few Regretfully

1:30:48

at a at a group

1:30:50

event. I'm gonna say this is

1:30:52

a a There's

1:30:55

a four and a half for me out of

1:30:57

ten. Yeah, do we change

1:30:59

the rating? You know,

1:31:01

I'm thinking it's more of a like a four

1:31:03

and a half out of five to me. This

1:31:05

is a nine chip This is so good. So

1:31:08

good. It's moist. So good moist

1:31:11

Yeah, it's like as it's like the dip and

1:31:13

the chip all in one bag. That's disgusting None

1:31:18

of those words are in the Bible simply

1:31:21

Um Okay, that's

1:31:23

our show every episode is

1:31:25

that youtube.com/popcast like and subscribe

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every episode of video and

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1:31:35

will be back with more segments next week I

1:31:38

want to have a tongue scraper Please

1:31:41

do Some

1:31:45

People just know the best rate for you

1:31:47

is a rate based on you with all

1:31:49

state Not a rate based on Terry

1:31:51

who keeps And

1:31:54

makes the car behind them. Oh No,

1:31:57

they're about to Save

1:32:00

with DriveWise on the Allstate app and only

1:32:02

pay a rate based on you.