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0:39

Yes, we're

0:42

going to be turning down the volume and

0:45

listening to the voice within. Welcome

0:50

to Popcast Deluxe, your Kings of Podcasts. Yeah.

0:52

I've recently called you a review. I'm John

0:54

Karamanica, a critic at The New York Times.

0:56

I'm Joe Cascarelli. I'm a reporter at The

0:58

New York Times. I'm Lil John. I just

1:00

took a dump in The New York Times

1:02

bathroom. That's

1:07

our show. Thank you so much for watching. I appreciate

1:09

it. It's

1:11

interview time on Deluxe. First

1:14

of all, when you and I first talked

1:16

about our current guests, we were just like

1:18

immediately yes. And frankly, obviously you've

1:20

had a very high profile few weeks with the

1:23

Super Bowl and et cetera. But this was before

1:25

that. We were just like, we got to get

1:27

a Lil John. And then you show up on

1:29

the Super Bowl and I was like, okay, it's

1:31

not negotiable. Thanks

1:34

for being here. Thanks for having me. I want to bet

1:36

because of your appearance. Is that

1:38

true? Yes. Wow. Congratulations. Just

1:41

a little person to person. No apps or

1:43

anything. Blame me. How much? We talking? It

1:47

was a pair of child's shoes was on the

1:49

line. Joe's a new father. Oh,

1:51

congratulations. Okay. I

1:54

see you're wearing the black Tim's today.

1:56

So you're feeling kind of New York.

2:00

And then I have just a regular wheel. I'm

2:02

sorry for the LVs. You're

2:05

sorry, the LVs. I mean, you ain't got

2:07

a son on us, bro. What's your relationship

2:09

to Tim? Only in New York? Or you're

2:11

doing Atlanta, too. Tim's is when it's cold

2:13

out. And a good pair

2:16

of Tim's make a match any out. Sure. We

2:19

have a lot to talk about. And as

2:21

I said to you in the back, obviously we'll talk

2:24

about a lot of the obvious things. But as I

2:26

mentioned, the word so, so deaf based all stars will

2:28

come up. OK. Like we're going to go deep. We're

2:30

going to go all the way back. We'd

2:34

be remiss to not start with the

2:36

current moment. OK. To

2:38

Joe's point, you play the Super Bowl. When

2:41

we saw that Usher was headlining

2:43

immediately, I'm like, this is Lil

2:45

Jon's moment. Can you talk

2:47

about this? Not my moment. It was not

2:49

his moment. But your moment, too. Anyone

2:52

who watched it is like, this is Lil

2:54

Jon's moment. And if you're guys who care

2:56

about behind the scenes, then you know what's

2:58

about to happen. Get

3:00

out. Put the derivative. Stop. Stop

3:02

singing. Turn down the mic. Please

3:08

don't hate

3:10

town, man.

3:14

Yeah. Yeah. Talk

3:17

to me a little bit about the setup leading

3:19

up to it, wanting

3:21

to be present. But to your point, it's

3:23

Usher's show. You're there to help. But also,

3:26

it's like you're on the

3:28

Super Bowl. Right? Your music directed the whole thing,

3:30

right? Yeah. So when,

3:35

much before he got the call, I just

3:37

had a premonition that he was going to

3:39

get the Super Bowl. And

3:41

we were in the studio working on the song Glue,

3:44

me and Sean Garrett

3:46

and Chronic and

3:49

Bobby Abla. And I told Bobby,

3:51

I was like, Usher's going to get the Super Bowl.

3:54

And much later, he

3:57

calls me, but I'm mad at him. I

4:00

don't answer the phone. What did he what did he do?

4:03

He didn't say he didn't leave a message, but I

4:05

knew he was calling to tell me he got the

4:07

Super Bowl. You could feel it. But I

4:09

was mad and I didn't pick up the phone. What had he done? That's

4:12

some we brothers. So we know brothers fight,

4:14

fall out, whatever, whatever. We didn't fall out,

4:17

but we would doubt him about something. You

4:19

had a moment next time I'm mad at

4:21

you. I'm going to be like, let's

4:23

do the Super Bowl together. Like

4:26

music direct my Super Bowl. It's a good. It's

4:29

a great make. So I didn't I didn't call

4:32

him. I didn't answer the phone. I didn't call him right

4:34

back. And then we

4:36

finally started to communicate and

4:39

it's the Super Bowl. Like I knew it.

4:41

It's like I manifested it. How long did you

4:43

come out for? After

4:47

the missed call, I'm not going to get into no

4:51

specific. We talked

4:53

later. I'm in. I'm in. He

4:55

called and he was like, I want you to be a

4:58

part of this. And

5:00

then the conversation went from

5:02

not just being a part of it

5:04

from the musical direction in sense, but

5:06

to be performing in the art. I don't

5:08

know. I can't remember if all that happened at the

5:10

same time away, but I was

5:13

just feeling blessed to get the call,

5:15

you know, because how many

5:17

artists can say they've done the Super Bowl,

5:19

you know, so for

5:22

what it's worth. When I saw it was

5:24

Usher, I was like, there is a zero

5:26

percent chance that Lil John's Locker be on

5:28

stage. That's a lot of people on X

5:30

or a.k.a. Twitter said the

5:32

same thing because when he announced when

5:34

it was announced that day, it was

5:36

announced myself and Ludacris were

5:38

trending right. Sure. Not as

5:41

high as he was when we were trending. Absolutely.

5:43

Because everybody was like, he got to bring John

5:45

and Luda. Yeah. So but in your mind, it

5:47

wasn't a done deal. I mean, he still is

5:49

his show. Right. He could have gone a different

5:52

direction. You never know where people are going to

5:54

go. But I was just appreciative that he saw.

6:00

value of having me

6:02

and Luda on that stage with him 20

6:04

years after the song was released. The

6:08

song came out in 04 and here it

6:10

is 2024 and he's

6:13

doing a Super Bowl. Look how God works. 20

6:15

years later, it

6:18

is insane that we are all still out

6:20

here healthy, performing still. No

6:23

microplastics. We'll get there.

6:26

Yeah, we'll talk about it. And we

6:28

can get on this stage together and then

6:30

he also wants me to be a part

6:33

of the musical production team. So

6:35

that was amazing because a lot of

6:37

people don't know, but I did the

6:39

musical production for Vegas. His Vegas residency, the

6:41

first year. And then the second year

6:43

is pretty much kind of the same music.

6:46

He just added the live band. So I'm

6:49

a part of that journey. I got him to

6:51

the Super Bowl anyway from Vegas

6:53

is one of the Vegas residency is one

6:55

of the things that propelled him to get,

6:57

you know, of course, be able to do

6:59

that stage. Did you have anything that you

7:01

wanted on the set list that he didn't

7:03

play? Yes. DJ got us falling in love.

7:05

I would have expected

7:08

that one. Yeah, I also would have expected

7:10

that. We had mixed up

7:12

a nice version where was DJ

7:15

falling in love, mashed up

7:17

with the City

7:19

Girl song that he did, which was from

7:21

the baseball star. I took the late and

7:23

freak it. So we actually

7:26

took the freak it drums. Oh, wow. And we

7:28

mashed it up with DJ

7:30

got us falling in love and made a really

7:33

cool thing. But he put a cut for the

7:35

Super Bowl. It was going to

7:37

go into OMG. But the way he flipped

7:39

OMG was a lot different than where we

7:41

were with the way we had

7:43

it going from DJ to OMG. So

7:45

I mean, but, you know, you

7:48

lose something, but you add something in like he

7:50

added superstar in, you know what I mean? He

7:54

also had in you remind me you

7:56

remind you remind me came out so

7:58

superstar could go in. Okay. And

8:00

then it was also like DJ couldn't

8:03

necessarily work because of the time. Mm hmm.

8:05

Because we had, you know, he wanted bad

8:07

girl in there with her on the guitar.

8:09

Right. And let her do that solo. Which

8:11

is a credible idea to like let her

8:13

do that solo into

8:15

from You Got It Bad into Bad

8:17

Girl. Yeah. That was Usher's idea.

8:20

He wanted that from the beginning. So

8:22

I mean, I think it worked out. I think he

8:24

gave the deep album cut

8:27

fans something. Yeah. He gave the pop

8:29

fan something, the urban fan something. He gave

8:31

something for everybody. Covered all the era. Yeah.

8:33

And I think it was it was an

8:35

all around amazing show. And I

8:37

was happy that he let my heart stay in

8:40

me. You thought you were

8:42

on the cover for anything. No, because

8:44

you know, we went a bunch

8:46

of different directions at some point. But the

8:49

fact that like from the first day, I,

8:52

you know, when I started working on the set

8:54

with my partner, DJ Chronic, who was my

8:57

right hand on this process, I

9:00

knew I wanted to go turn down for

9:04

I knew I wanted that to be

9:06

the transition into Yeah, because I've seen

9:08

so many DJs on the turn

9:10

down for what drop like it's one

9:12

it goes in the Dancing Queen or something. So

9:15

everybody's seen that. So that was just that was

9:17

in my head. And I was like, we

9:20

just got to, you know, we always

9:22

as a DJ use a good drop

9:24

sets up the next song really well.

9:26

So I knew that was

9:29

the perfect way to set up. Yeah.

9:31

So the fact that I

9:33

got my own little 45 seconds to shine.

9:36

And then when we got to rehearsals,

9:39

and they were like, Yo, we want your stuff is going

9:41

to be like a mosh pit. And this is the outline.

9:44

Wow, y'all making me look amazing. Right.

9:47

And then when we got to really

9:49

see it in the stadium in rehearsal,

9:51

I was like, I couldn't

9:53

see it. But people told me what it

9:55

looked like. And they were like, your part looks crazy.

9:57

So I mean, I was just blessed to be there.

10:00

I'm happy that he included me in

10:02

all of those aspects and happy that, you

10:04

know, shout out to Akman.

10:07

I think it's Akman who's the creative director who

10:09

had the idea for me to do that little

10:12

turned out for what bit in that little crowd

10:14

like that. Cause I mean, cause yeah, even the

10:16

camera worked during your bit. They worked on that.

10:18

That's what I'm saying. Like it's very clear that

10:20

they had a specific approach knowing that you were

10:23

coming in to change the energy. You got a

10:25

big closeup. Yeah. I mean, I took a couple

10:27

of rehearsals for them to get that right.

10:29

Cause it wasn't right at first, but I mean, that

10:31

was a lot of work to get that right. And

10:33

yeah, that was a big energy chain. And if I

10:35

was like, okay, not a thing

10:37

about the turnout when I came out, was it

10:39

always going to close on? Yeah. Was

10:42

I 100%? Well, no. Yeah.

10:44

I wonder how many different set lists iterations were

10:47

there. It was over a hundred something. Wow. Yeah.

10:51

So, uh, it was, we, when we put

10:53

it together originally, it was, yeah, at the

10:55

end, but then at one point he wanted

10:58

to know, did he want to do it? I

11:00

forgot. No, it might've

11:02

been always, yeah. It

11:04

was almost, um, OMG

11:06

was almost at the beginning. Okay. As

11:09

an opener. We had, we had OMG at the

11:11

beginning at one point cause Usher was like, he wanted to start

11:13

out with more. Well, boom, you know,

11:15

but then we went back to kind of how we,

11:17

we had it. So you

11:20

mentioned, so we're on the 20th, 20 year

11:22

anniversary of the song, but I have sort of like

11:24

a, a contrarian take

11:26

about Usher at the Superbowl, which is when

11:29

I think of Usher in 040, 506,

11:32

I think of Usher in

11:34

that moment as actually the biggest pop

11:36

star in America, not just

11:38

biggest RMB star, biggest pops are those

11:40

records were huge. Crawl around the world.

11:42

Top hits global. Yeah. I

11:45

was almost like, why didn't I should

11:47

play the Superbowl in 06 or 07 that

11:50

to me seemed crazy in

11:53

retrospect. And I wonder you

11:56

lived it in that

11:58

time. Were You guys looking in the. Generic

12:00

than being like we should be up there.

12:02

That's us. Ah, I

12:06

don't remember and just remember now when

12:08

in a Grammy that was a big

12:10

as one. Sure for yeah hours of

12:12

a good for the album, a Confession

12:15

we wine and Apple Grammy for year

12:17

being best. some collaboration move but it

12:19

was the year I think it was.

12:21

Might have been a year. Rates rouse

12:23

die even to read Charlotte's As On

12:25

Tribute album and an obscure rate Charlie

12:27

Adam right? Nobody really ever heard of

12:29

My Cynicism album of the year, right?

12:32

And it was nothing. No one building

12:34

on yourself that you know Year was

12:36

just. A rockets

12:38

arm. Now. Was it

12:40

cause I remember sitting there looking to

12:42

Jimmy Dance Harry lose look at your

12:44

and with an arm Zaidi we lost.

12:48

All my years as he was here we. Go.

12:58

Into the music business, there were It

13:00

was still a blessing. Know, I mean

13:02

Saga but arm the think he probably

13:04

could have done it. Maybe

13:07

twenty two years collecting early. two thousand

13:09

was still rock. Yeah, that would also

13:11

post it was post janet. That.

13:13

Yeah six or seven and so he is

13:16

your own house. I have lost my call

13:18

back from an arranged marriage where they went

13:20

to Bruce Springsteen. Any other brands of the

13:22

home blaze through. This is exactly yeah. Oh

13:24

the up Paul Mccartney's in there somewhere. that

13:27

was when they they what they went down

13:29

for sites. Did you guys have any interactions

13:31

with Jan Roc Nation on putting this day

13:33

was this year. Jay was dare ah I

13:35

didn't see him. I. Came

13:37

in when he started rehearsing gnome in Vegas

13:39

where were you when you know person in

13:42

Vegas or he might have had rehearsals before

13:44

it has. He already knew all the steps,

13:46

rates. Oh. But.

13:48

I saw J when we moved to the stadium. I

13:50

saw him. Physically. day every day

13:53

long relied on the a watch a d

13:55

and deep and as you know making you

13:57

know for a critique in in makes her

13:59

in oh yeah whispering suggest someone and

14:01

yeah then they make it happen

14:04

so yeah he was there definitely also one thing

14:06

that I like so much about the halftime show

14:08

is it felt very

14:10

very specifically Atlanta you like

14:13

and I wonder if you could talk about

14:15

the small gestures that you're putting together whether

14:17

they're musical or in the lamp that you

14:19

were like this has to communicate what Atlanta

14:21

feels like I

14:23

think that was all usher like that

14:26

was in his heart from before he

14:28

started he wanted to make sure Atlanta

14:30

was well represented yeah on this national

14:32

stage and he's you know from

14:34

the Vegas residency he's so well known for

14:37

that roller skating and honestly I

14:39

don't think anybody's ever roller skated in the

14:41

Super Bowl so either so he had

14:43

you know I never will right right

14:45

so he had to have yeah the

14:47

touches of Atlanta throughout the whole show

14:50

and also that's why me and Ludacris

14:52

were important right that's why bringing out

14:54

JD was important yeah as well as

14:56

JD you know writing some of his

14:58

biggest records so yeah it

15:01

was very important to usher that yeah Atlanta

15:03

was representing basically bringing in Atlanta to the

15:05

world sure I think he said something like

15:07

that as you guys have done for 20

15:09

or 30 years like I someday

15:13

I'll tell the story of going skydiving with

15:15

Ludacris I love that you went skydiving I

15:17

did with Luda in

15:19

the year 2001 have you seen the video

15:21

I've seen

15:26

that he's seen the video great experience right

15:28

there easy landing all of

15:33

that we were loving it was great wait

15:41

so why I used to work I

15:43

got four cameras one of my first jobs is I used to

15:52

work at BET's website in like 2000

15:54

2001 they had website they had websites

15:56

not that many of them but they had so I mean you got it This

16:00

is like extremely early internet content

16:03

and you would talk to like a person a label

16:05

and they'd be like What's the wildest thing we could

16:08

put on the internet? And so The

16:11

deaf jam people at that point came to us and

16:13

said Luda and Shaka had

16:15

just been somewhere in the Middle East maybe

16:17

and done skydiving for the first time He

16:19

had done it before done it before and

16:21

they were like he'd really like to do

16:24

it again What and so

16:26

my editor am I asking him about this

16:28

my editor at the time literally was like

16:30

I'm taking the trip She was like I

16:32

want to go. Mm-hmm. And I was like,

16:34

okay cool Like I'll no problem the morning

16:36

before she calls me in her office and

16:39

she's like, um, yeah, I have

16:41

kids I can't go skydiving With

16:47

ludicrous she's like so you're you're coming out

16:49

of a plane with ludicrous And

16:51

I literally wrote down my mother's phone number

16:54

on a piece of paper and handed

16:56

it to my editor And I said something goes

16:58

bad. That's you you got to make

17:00

this call and then next morning I woke up we

17:02

went about two hours north. It was it was somewhere

17:04

in Westchester The

17:06

the creakiest plane you can imagine

17:09

like the most sus set up

17:12

and I have video that everybody gets a

17:14

videographer So it's like you're jumping you're attached

17:16

to somebody and then there's a third person

17:18

who falls before you and they have a

17:20

camera On their head. So I have a

17:22

crazy video of us in the plane of

17:24

me falling of me almost throwing I was

17:27

gonna be you puked at some I didn't

17:29

actually puke but I got really close I had

17:31

to ride the entire way back when the window

17:33

open So why what you got almost throw coming

17:35

down? No, you know, cuz the guy who was

17:37

my you have to do tandem Yeah, of course

17:39

So the guy who I had was like a

17:42

real cowboy and he was like tapping me as

17:44

we were pulling down He's like I got something

17:46

for you Literally

17:48

like what do you have me

17:50

so what he did if

17:53

you imagine him behind me But like maybe

17:55

a foot higher than me. He

17:58

then swings his right leg leg over

18:00

my shoulder. And what that does is

18:02

instead of flying like this, you go

18:04

like this. So we start going in

18:06

a spiral. You did a little spiral.

18:08

We did a whole spiral for like,

18:10

I mean, I'm the guy who wanted

18:12

to do a trick. Yeah, like, it

18:14

felt like hours. I'm sure it was

18:16

like 45 seconds. And

18:19

then by the time I landed, like I

18:21

almost was like about to pass out. It

18:23

was unbearable. Am I right to say it

18:25

never aired? Never aired? Never

18:28

aired because the website wasn't sophisticated enough

18:30

to handle the video. So it's like

18:32

never also genuine distance. Here's the actual

18:34

punchline of the whole thing. Okay, so

18:36

when you get these videos made, they

18:39

put music on them because they're like, we're making

18:41

a cinematic. So now everybody we were with we

18:43

were with the president of the BT, like we

18:45

were with everybody, right? Everybody's in

18:48

the room, putting ludacris music

18:50

on. I'm in the

18:52

bathroom, like barely conscious. And

18:55

when I get out they got to choose ludicrous

18:57

song. I get out and they just hand me

18:59

a video and I was like, don't I get

19:01

to choose music? And they're like, yo, we got

19:03

to go we got to I get home. I

19:05

put in the VC the VHS tape. I put

19:07

it in the VCR Dave Matthews band. They

19:10

just like white guy. Yeah, absolutely. I used

19:13

to have crazy long hair. So I think

19:15

they probably thought that was my way. Anyway,

19:17

a terrible, embarrassing thing that I like to

19:19

show friends. How

19:21

was ludas? Shout out luda. Luda is

19:24

great. We had those altimeters on everybody

19:26

was doing a little like Rolex action with the altimeters.

19:28

It was a great time. Okay, apart from the near

19:30

down. No, I didn't know he was a daredevil like

19:35

that. I think this is probably pre

19:38

fast and furious day. Right. It was

19:40

definitely and now he knows all about

19:43

stunts. Now he's into space. Yeah, right.

19:45

Yeah, exactly. Wait

19:47

out of space. Told

19:50

you numbers don't lie. Okay,

19:54

we talked a little bit about 2004. Yeah, in that era. I

19:58

think I want to like we have like level set a

20:01

little bit because not only

20:03

was Usher the most famous pop star but

20:06

in terms of the work that you were doing in 02, 03, 04 can you give

20:08

us a sense

20:12

of what the fame level was

20:14

like at that moment? How intense,

20:16

yeah for you how quickly did

20:18

it arrive, how fast and

20:21

how intense was it? Well it

20:23

got to an intense point

20:26

when Dave Chappelle started the

20:28

sketches on me. Yeah I

20:31

mean I was definitely well known with yeah

20:34

but yeah and Dave Chappelle was out

20:36

at the same time. So

20:38

it was like instant

20:40

pop culture like

20:43

icon status for me once those

20:45

three or yeah three Dave Chappelle

20:47

sketches there, yeah it's out, Sierra's

20:51

going I think Sierra came out late 04,

20:53

05. Low

21:09

was around the same time. Get Low was

21:12

came out 03. Right. So I got a

21:14

lot of big records

21:24

and yeah I'm going through the airport

21:26

and definitely getting recognized and everywhere I

21:28

go and yes so another

21:31

level. I remember doing VMAs with

21:33

Dave Chappelle. Well

21:36

we were we were in Miami for

21:38

VMAs sorry and I was walking

21:40

down the street and I just happened to run in

21:42

the day walking down the street and we thought it

21:44

was a bright idea to click up and walk to

21:46

the club. During VMAs weekend we had a crowd of

21:49

200 people with us by the time we got

21:55

to the club so that tells you the

21:57

level of the fame. Mm-hmm so yeah it

21:59

was It was pretty crazy and it

22:02

was so much going on so

22:04

fast that like

22:08

I don't even remember it

22:10

all because it was so much. Did

22:13

you ever have a complicated relationship with those

22:15

sketches? Because I wonder. No,

22:17

I got on the show because

22:20

I went to the

22:23

show to just say thank you for doing

22:25

the sketch on me because I saw what

22:27

it was doing for me. It was helping

22:29

me to reach audiences that my music never

22:32

would have been able to touch. So

22:34

I went to say thank you on the show and then he

22:36

was like hang out let's do some sketches. I want you to

22:38

jump in some sketches. So we do like

22:40

one sketch and then we

22:42

do another one. He's like yo I

22:45

got an idea. So he

22:47

was off camera and I'm on

22:50

camera and we were just improv-ing back

22:52

and forth. And so he

22:54

takes that, cuts it up and that turns into the

22:56

sketch where we're going back and

22:58

Lil Jon is talking to Lil Jon. And that just

23:01

came because I just happened to go to the show

23:03

and say hello. Lil Jon.

23:05

Okay. I feel lonely. I

23:08

feel like I just need

23:10

to talk to someone who will understand and

23:12

well that someone is you Jon. Okay.

23:15

Don't you like popsicles?

23:17

What? I said don't you

23:19

like popsicles? What? I said

23:21

don't you like popsicles? So

23:25

I loved it and

23:27

I just appreciated it so much because it

23:29

just took, it's never going

23:31

to die. Sure. I

23:34

guess you could see though a less enlightened

23:36

or less evolved, less chill person than yourself

23:38

feeling like it like flattened their legacy or

23:40

something. Because you have such a catalog. It

23:43

elevates me. Yeah. But to you

23:45

it's all plus. All plus. Oh yeah that

23:47

elevated me even like so much more. I remember after

23:50

that I remember being in

23:52

an airport and a white family.

23:54

Mom, dad, kids, grandkids came

23:57

up to me taking a picture because they

23:59

saw me on ship. Sure. I

24:01

wonder, like, prior to the

24:03

Chappelle thing, did you experience

24:06

yourself as like, I'm a big

24:08

star, where you're like, I'm fundamentally

24:10

incredibly well known amongst my peers?

24:13

And because that's a different thing being like, I'm,

24:15

I'm known by everybody in Atlanta, and a lot

24:17

of people in hip hop. And where's

24:19

that gap? Did you did you think of yourself

24:22

as that famous prior? Or did it really take

24:24

the Chappelle thing to create the what we think

24:26

of as the character of Lil Jon now? I

24:29

actually don't really remember, but I

24:31

think I'm pretty sure it happened

24:33

after Chappelle because it

24:35

was so many things in 04 to

24:38

hit at this time. Critical math. And Get Low

24:40

might have come out in 2003, but it might

24:42

not have hit fully. No,

24:45

actually, I think it came out. It was

24:47

on the album, right? And then we put

24:50

it out at a single once it started

24:52

to get crazy. So it took a

24:54

year for Get Low to go and then the

24:56

next year was get.

24:59

Yeah. And then goodies

25:01

and all of that crap. And

25:03

then I'm trying to keep it

25:05

New York Times. Okay. And then

25:07

value judgment. And what year do

25:10

you guys should probably know what

25:12

year did Lovers and Friends come

25:14

out with it? Crunk juice come

25:16

out. Was it 04? So the

25:18

story with Lovers and Friends, I

25:20

was in the strip club one

25:22

night in the blue flame.

25:44

We both been in blue flame.

25:46

Oh, absolutely. All right. Black Tim's

25:49

that night. Yeah,

25:53

black. I might have the

25:55

LZ that night. But the

25:57

DJ plays the Michael Sterling.

26:00

version. It was a couple now in the

26:02

strip club it was two songs that you

26:05

definitely wanted to get a dance to.

26:08

One was Lenny Williams, Cause I Love You.

26:12

Two was Michael Sterling, Lovers and Friends. Wow.

26:15

Please enjoy it. Come

26:19

here, keep my baby. We

26:26

won't need so much more. The DJ plays

26:28

Lovers and Friends this night, and I'm just thinking

26:30

this is after we do Yeah. And I think

26:33

I've done Red Light for Usher too. I'm

26:36

like, wow. This

26:38

could be a crazy Usher song.

26:41

So I'm like, burn that song for me on

26:43

the CD. At the club. Yeah. I'm

26:45

like, I need that. He gives me

26:47

a CD a couple of days

26:49

later, a week or two later, whatever. I

26:51

give it to Usher. I'm like, bro, I got, I think this

26:53

is another one. Check it out. Check this

26:56

song out. I don't think he ever listened

26:58

to it. Confessions album

27:00

is closed. It comes out. Right.

27:03

Whatever with it. I'm in Miami working

27:05

on Crunk Juice, my album Crunk Juice.

27:09

I'm in the studio one night. And I was like, man,

27:12

Usher didn't never use that Lovers and Friends. I'm

27:14

like, I'm about to go ahead and just do

27:16

that for me and get him on it and

27:18

Chris on it. Now, mind

27:20

you, most people would have thought, yeah,

27:22

it was such a big song. Do another

27:25

club song. Me

27:27

for some reason was like, no, I

27:29

want to go left. I want to go for

27:31

a club song. I want to go totally opposite

27:33

of what they're expecting because I think this

27:36

is going to have more of an impact because

27:38

that's going to be expected to do the

27:40

club song. That's expected. So

27:43

me and my guy, El Rock and

27:46

my musicians, Craig and Mark, we go

27:48

in studio, do

27:50

the beat. I call Usher like,

27:52

yo, I got one. He

27:55

comes out on the jet. We get in circle house.

27:57

He does his part. He's

27:59

gone. I call

28:02

Luda bra. We

28:04

got another one. Luda don't remember the

28:06

story. Right? He think I should call

28:08

it. I called my damn song. Why

28:10

would I should call you for my

28:13

song? You know, you're following the generator.

28:15

You're following from a plane. It's like

28:17

sometimes you keep a, so I

28:19

get Luda on it and I

28:22

wait to do my verse after

28:24

everybody else is done because I'm

28:26

like, this is going

28:28

to be tough for me because I'm not a rapper

28:31

and I want to really make sure

28:33

I get the right character on the song,

28:35

say the right themes. And

28:37

I wanted it to be catchy. That's

28:39

why I got the Shaw day. So

28:42

the Shaw day came from

28:44

another song since we want to

28:46

get into history. We had a

28:48

song with Ooby called nothing's free.

29:00

And on the verses, I came

29:02

up with the idea to do Shaw days to give

29:04

it something like a versus. So

29:07

I figured, you know, that was an underground song.

29:09

A lot of people didn't hear that. This

29:12

is going to be a big record with

29:14

this, with the follow up to

29:16

yeah, with me, of course, Ludacris

29:18

and us. Like, let me

29:20

put this Shaw day on my verse to give my verse

29:23

something that the people can check, you

29:25

know, so do it. Rest

29:27

is history. The song is number one rap song

29:31

of the year without a video.

29:33

And this is the time when you got to

29:35

have a video to go number one and we

29:38

get billboard rap single of the

29:40

year without a video. Why didn't you shoot the video?

29:44

Cause Usher is a big giant

29:46

pop star. Luda's

29:48

on Def Jam. And I

29:50

don't think the labels really were looking

29:52

at me as comparable to them.

29:55

Interesting. And then it was just working out,

29:57

you know, who this

30:00

money, that money, all of that. So

30:02

we never shot a

30:04

video, but it's still, it's still huge. But

30:08

that's, but I think what you just said really

30:10

brings me to something that I always felt in

30:12

that era, which is, look, we're

30:14

talking the early 2000s. We're

30:16

not that far removed from 90s hip

30:19

hop in New York, 90s hip hop

30:21

in Los Angeles. People thinking of hip

30:23

hop still primarily as a coastal thing.

30:25

Atlanta is just kind of like really

30:27

starting to get a lot of national

30:29

attention. Obviously you've had Dungeon Family and

30:31

everything happening in the 90s, Atlanta Base,

30:33

et cetera, JD. But

30:36

in that early 2000s period, you really had

30:38

two separate movements coming from Atlanta. You had

30:40

like what Outcast was doing as they were

30:42

getting really, really big and really pop. And

30:44

then you had what you were doing. And

30:47

I wonder, did you

30:49

feel that the people on the coasts at

30:53

the labels were not giving you your due?

30:56

Oh, 100%. And you said

30:58

JD, I think JD still to this

31:00

day doesn't get as much credit as

31:03

he deserves as an incredible

31:06

songwriter and producer and what he's

31:08

done with Mariah escape,

31:10

Jagged Edge and everybody he's produced.

31:12

Even what he did with Drew

31:15

Hill, he came, he took

31:17

this song, a slow song he had and

31:19

turned into a club bank. Like, so

31:22

a lot of props to Jermaine, but

31:24

yes, because

31:26

I was doing crunk music and

31:28

it wasn't radio music, people

31:33

didn't understand it. I remember having

31:36

to, like

31:38

the DJs in certain states would understand it

31:40

because they in the club. I

31:43

would have to like get the

31:45

program directors to the music directors

31:47

to the club. I remember Steven

31:50

Hill one time we were at,

31:53

we were in spring break and somewhere and

31:56

AJ was real, me and AJ was real cool

31:59

and he got Steven. come to the club I

32:01

was performing. I got

32:03

Steven in the headlock and

32:05

was holding on to him while I'm performing so

32:07

he could feel the energy of the crowd and

32:09

I think after that night... Was he president of

32:12

the E.T. at the time? Yeah, he also jumped

32:14

out of the plane with me Ludacris. Wow,

32:17

so he was a believer after

32:19

that, right? It's like you

32:21

can't just listen to it on the radio

32:24

and understand crunk music. But that's an Atlanta

32:26

thing in general is that people didn't really

32:28

start to understand until they saw it in

32:30

the flesh. Take us

32:32

back to where you even learned that like

32:34

early Atlanta Club days when were you first

32:37

in the clubs would like take us back

32:39

to like Phoenix and all that stuff. Because

32:42

you were there like as a teenager, right? No, Phoenix

32:44

was early 90s I was probably

32:48

20s. Okay, early 20s.

32:51

Yeah, so I

32:53

started everybody's first strip club

32:56

I mean everybody's first club. We'll get to

32:58

the first club. This strip club in the

33:00

West End, I forgot the name of it

33:03

at the time, is actually still open. It

33:06

was Montrese, I think it was a

33:09

club called Montrese. It was a club

33:11

in the West End because you could

33:13

be 15, 16 because they didn't serve

33:15

alcohol. So this was like my first

33:17

club experience. Okay. And

33:19

then I don't

33:21

remember what other clubs I went to but

33:23

I eventually made it to I

33:26

got the Phoenix. So the Phoenix turned

33:28

into one of the quintessential clubs

33:31

in the city because it

33:34

was the first kind of big

33:36

club that brought New

33:39

York and other

33:41

areas talent to Atlanta. When

33:44

Atlanta had typically been more

33:46

about the base and

33:49

just kind of southern rap. All booty

33:51

shake stuff. Yeah, like not all booty

33:53

shake but yeah it was it was

33:55

more southern. Yeah. And this was the

33:57

first club where you had The

34:00

college kids from the AUC would

34:02

come and you just had more

34:04

of a diverse count the drug

34:06

dealers were there. Magic City Girls

34:08

was there. So

34:10

you had all types of people and we

34:13

played a mix of

34:16

we didn't really play bass we didn't play

34:18

none of that but we played all of

34:20

the hip-hop dance hall and this is like

34:22

in the mid 90s kind of early 90s.

34:25

This was like Phoenix I think yeah. Me

34:27

and my crew being me we brought Biggie

34:29

and Craig Mack to

34:31

Atlanta. Wow. That was when they promoting the

34:33

Big Mac tour. Big Mac tour. Biggie opening

34:36

for Mac Wild. And that was because of

34:38

me. I knew the rep from Arista so

34:40

I called her and convinced her to you

34:44

know say hey it's a radio date yeah

34:46

I'm on the radio because I'm on the

34:48

radio and then but I'm not

34:50

the music director. I got a show on

34:52

the radio but I'm not I can't get

34:54

your record at it. So that turned into

34:57

some some drama but we

35:00

brought Craig and Biggie there and

35:02

yeah so this this was the club where ODB

35:06

is a notorious story. ODB was there one

35:08

night we used to have Freestyle

35:10

Friday. Okay. Right. So Goodie

35:13

Mob used to be the Lumberjacks.

35:15

It was just Timo and

35:18

Cujo. They were the Lumberjacks. They would come do

35:20

the Friday night thing. So a lot of artists

35:23

would come do this Friday night Freestyle. This

35:26

one night ODB there he

35:29

Freestyles nobody. He pulls

35:33

out a gun shoots in the air and

35:36

then the crowd went silent and

35:39

they split. He jumped off the stage

35:41

walked down the center and walked right out

35:43

the door. But

35:46

this was the club where you know we

35:49

brought Mary J Blige was there. I've seen

35:51

you know we brought Yo-Yo we brought leaders

35:53

of the new school there. Of course

35:55

Biggie, Craig, Maxxo all of the

35:58

hip-hop and the dips. The

36:00

big groups at that time would kind of

36:02

come through this club. And this is also

36:04

where JD was every week. Sure. TLC was

36:07

there. Sure. Rest of development was there. Mm-hmm.

36:09

You know, Dallas Austin and all of that,

36:11

his crew was there. So this is what

36:13

all of the local talent

36:16

was there too, because we're trying

36:18

to attain that. I mean, we're

36:20

trying to achieve that, you

36:22

know, breakthrough New York too. Mm-hmm. This

36:24

is just a hot new spot where

36:26

it's different from where at that time

36:28

it was a club called Club Excess.

36:30

That was in Decatur. Okay. And that

36:32

was DJ Nas would do Club Excess,

36:34

but it was more straight Atlanta, Atlanta,

36:37

Atlanta. And were they playing like bass

36:39

records there? Like, you know, Rime, Kilo,

36:41

like those guys? Yeah, this was, that

36:43

was early, yeah, early 90s, because I

36:46

left the Phoenix in 93 to

36:48

start working at So So Def,

36:50

so that was 91, 92. So

36:52

yeah, I think the bass was still going

36:54

crazy. And what's so crazy about you talking

36:56

about the different generations of Atlanta, Phoenix, is

36:58

like, Coach K of Quality Control told me

37:00

that one of the things that convinced him

37:02

to move to Atlanta was seeing Biggie at

37:04

Phoenix. Wow. And then seeing

37:06

also, like the next night they had

37:08

like a gay party. And he was

37:11

just like, this place, like, only here

37:13

could you get all of this stuff.

37:15

The thing about it was, yeah, on

37:17

certain, on like, thing is Fridays, Thursday

37:19

and Fridays, it was the Phoenix. Then

37:22

they had an alternate entrance in the club.

37:24

The name was Trax. Yo, Trax. Trax was

37:26

the gay club and the house club. Sure.

37:28

But just like the fact that all of

37:30

that stuff could coexist in a place like

37:32

that, like somebody who had their eye on

37:34

the music industry, and will go on to

37:36

do the next couple generations of it. Like,

37:38

he's like, I gotta be here. I need

37:41

to be where this kind of stuff is

37:43

happening. You know, I wonder how much the

37:45

bass music of that era informed

37:47

when you start making records.

37:50

Because There's obviously a straight

37:52

through line, even if you listen to the earliest

37:54

Lil Jon, the East Side Boys record, those are

37:56

closer to bass record. Yeah, it's bass on the

37:58

bass record. The new

38:00

pivoted in early two thousand but I wonder

38:02

if you could talk about how that music

38:04

felt As a young person email lane I

38:07

didn't feel like that was the end. All

38:09

be all like we want to be based

38:11

stars like we want be in conversation with

38:13

those guys are me. We still listen to

38:15

Run Dmc, Ll Cool J, A

38:18

know out on be in high school. I was a

38:20

big. Ah, interview way into

38:22

sort to surround Listen to Life is

38:24

Too Short Album every single day. Me

38:27

and my boy ducks we would take

38:29

me home from Douglas High School. We

38:31

were right there delighted to soar album

38:34

every single day. So we were listening

38:36

to a forty my or every we

38:38

listening to everything so. But.

38:41

Base was the local museum that

38:43

was our city of you know

38:45

that was our so. Ah,

38:48

We didn't strive to be based artist

38:50

for Saban. that was the music that

38:53

was playing in a club. Short arm.

38:56

So. When.

38:59

I became our as by accident.

39:01

I'm a beyond like. I didn't

39:03

strive to become a rapper. It

39:06

was only because when outdoors also debase

39:08

all stars. And. Are in

39:10

for the label Now Entering Yes Value for

39:12

Zola. Three volumes of I Like volume One

39:14

to my my one of the great album

39:16

is a bad era of money. so much

39:18

somebody else on earth are we going to?

39:20

Yeah, so The Ministers So ah, In.

39:23

Doing so so their base our sars

39:25

to forcing a was play a poncho.

39:27

being kids Iraq and l a snow

39:29

was that was somewhat sums up. So

39:31

the song the Well in Atlanta and

39:33

it will come across over with afraid

39:35

video eat or not is a year

39:37

yeah actually that might have been freed

39:39

new I think in the music videos

39:41

for thing as free as fall in

39:43

might be might be for evening we

39:45

our members shooting a video to were

39:47

arm. because i have a small cameo

39:49

on I

40:00

was just thinking of the bag, dressing with a moon, so gross,

40:02

so 11. Craft

40:04

matters in small ways, like how coffee

40:06

is made, or

40:08

how a wooden table is built, piece by piece.

40:12

And in not so small ways, like how your money

40:14

is cared for. At UBS,

40:16

we elevate investing to a craft.

40:18

We deliver our services with passion, expertise,

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and meticulous attention to detail. This is

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40:29

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40:32

The value of investments may fall as well as rise, and

40:34

you may not get back the amount originally invested. I'm

40:39

Julian Barnes. I'm an intelligence reporter at

40:41

The New York Times. I try to

40:43

find out what the U.S. government is

40:45

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40:48

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But we at The New York Times

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41:01

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to support this kind of work, you can do

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that by subscribing to The New York Times. I

41:34

didn't know that you could be a star and

41:36

still have a job. I thought you were supposed

41:38

to just be in the back, relatable, you know

41:40

what I mean? I don't know. So

41:42

I'm just... It's pre-popped. I wanted a little

41:45

cameo. Or they might have said, yo,

41:47

we're gonna get you a cameo, but I wasn't trying

41:49

to be like... Right. I

41:51

was just in the back. Anyway. So the

41:55

song did well. It actually did

41:57

well because freestyle music was still

41:59

going. going on. So it

42:01

got on to the like, I remember we went

42:03

to like, uh, the Bay

42:06

area and did some shows with Pancho. So,

42:08

cause it got on those stations because

42:11

of the tempo. Interesting. Um, yeah. So

42:14

it did well. Jermaine was like,

42:16

we should sign Pancho. So we, he

42:18

signed Pancho for some other records. So I'm

42:21

the A&R of course. So I'm always with play

42:23

a Pancho. And so we

42:25

would go out to like the club that was

42:28

big on the East side at the time of

42:30

played, um, kind of music

42:32

was, uh, the gate. So

42:35

we would all be in the gate together,

42:37

Pancho, and then all of his boys from

42:39

the Decatur to East side. So

42:41

a group of guys that would consistently always

42:43

be with us was Sam

42:45

and Bo, right? So it

42:49

might be 10, might be 20, but

42:51

some nights it might be just four or

42:53

five of us and Sam and Bo was

42:55

always there. And I, one day I was

42:57

like, man, y'all always, you know, y'all

43:00

from the East side, I was

43:02

like, some, I can't remember. I was just like, but I

43:04

just remember I was just like, I'm just call y'all to

43:06

East side boys. You know? So

43:09

one night we were in the club, I think

43:11

we're in the five, five, nine, which was the

43:14

club on the West side that

43:16

was the hot club. Um,

43:19

so we were in the five, five, nine. And I

43:21

think it was like 15 of us

43:23

in the club that night together. And we just started

43:25

chanting who you with, who you

43:27

with, who you with. Who

43:30

you with. And that's the

43:32

whole record right there. Crow started chanting

43:34

it after we started chanting it. And

43:37

I remember looking at Sam like, yo,

43:39

you see this? And I

43:41

was like, we're going to make a record out

43:43

of this. So I called a

43:47

friend of mine named Kool-Ace. Kool-Ace

43:51

had his own label with this guy named Carlos

43:53

Glover and Kool-Ace was like,

43:56

um, connect you with Carlos, Carlos

43:59

Glover. He put

44:01

us in the studio me and my

44:03

boy Paul Lewis produced a beat and That's

44:07

how we ended up doing our first single

44:09

little Johnny's high boys who you with Just

44:24

because they were chanting in the club and me as

44:26

a good and our guy right, you know like

44:28

this calling response ring Yeah, it's working. I

44:30

mean for these people not to know what

44:32

we you know No, we are you are

44:34

anything and they're chanting it like so

44:37

that's how it's that's how we've done our first record And

44:40

when you were making those early records How

44:42

long is it before you realize I want

44:45

to create a sound that's different from the

44:47

one that I inherited? It

44:49

wasn't even that it was just like We

44:52

the gate was the club where you would go here.

44:54

Um Um 36

44:57

mafia. Well before kind of

45:00

before 36 it was more Masterp,

45:03

it was master pure ape a

45:05

bottom on a G were gods.

45:07

Yeah in these days, right? So

45:09

and then it's also the time when you start

45:11

to see the music change from the bass to

45:15

the gangster stuff

45:17

like lower so I'm asking 36 Right.

45:20

So that was I can't remember the years have

45:22

changed But the clubs went from

45:24

yeah all bass and everybody dancing and

45:26

cranking it up all fast all to

45:28

yep About

45:31

it about it. You know, I mean and

45:33

they was really into master P and all

45:35

of that But Anyway,

45:49

so What

45:51

are we talking about? What was she talking about? Like

45:54

she making that pivot from making So

45:56

yeah, we were in the studio. It was just kind of a

45:58

natural Like

46:00

so we did who you wit,

46:03

right? I just wanted to get something out for the

46:05

clubs in Atlanta to turn people up to get evil

46:07

crunk It turned into a

46:10

hit it took off because of

46:12

freakneak to when freakneak think it was 95

46:14

and The

46:17

song was just playing everywhere in

46:20

the streets Everywhere and it

46:22

blew up and then the thing about freakneak is

46:24

people would come from everywhere and then tell you

46:26

in this song Yeah, they take

46:28

it back home So it spread

46:30

the song and it turned into got hot

46:32

in Alabama and all these other states. So

46:35

We had to do an album So

46:38

that's when on the album bass is still

46:40

kind of going on so

46:43

we that's why we have shawty

46:46

freak a little something and some other songs like

46:48

that, but you know, the musical

46:50

transition was starting still at that time I've

46:52

got one foot in each world. Yeah, it's

46:54

kind of like okay. We got this 95

46:57

BPM song this turned up and

47:00

then okay We did the bass on the bass

47:02

on did well on the radio and I think

47:05

after this is this is what happened with bass

47:07

music Too when we did my

47:09

boo I was just gonna say that's it

47:11

changed the dynamic of the music cuz then

47:14

it was so freakin big That

47:17

everybody now wanted to do a singing I

47:23

want to sing my name to

47:25

me Come and sing

47:27

it Come on, sing it Come

47:30

on, sing it Love

47:33

and stuff It's a pop record. It's like

47:35

with a legitimate hit. So I think that

47:38

was the death of bass music because everybody

47:40

knew that Oh, wow. Yeah, because everybody started

47:42

to try to want to chase that I

47:44

see that's what happens with a lot EDM

47:47

went the same way Yeah, everybody started to

47:49

kind of copy a certain sound and

47:51

stop having the originality and it makes

47:53

the music die because then It's

47:56

not original anymore. Right? So I think

47:59

that was kind of starting to the death and

48:01

then also with the crunk shit

48:03

coming in the masterpiece

48:05

and all of that stuff because the masterpiece

48:07

was starting to come in early

48:09

90s with the ice cream man. Oh yeah we

48:11

were listening to that but then

48:13

when that bout it bout it came it just

48:15

flipped the city upside down then

48:18

you know 8 ball MJG

48:20

and 3 6 Mafia and

48:22

all this stuff started to come in so the

48:24

bass kind of faded out so

48:27

yeah so we did that album with

48:29

Who You With and Shawty Freakin' Little Summer and

48:31

I think we even had Get Crunk on there

48:34

where we were starting to we were just making

48:36

songs to make people get crunk right and then

48:38

by the time we got to the next album

48:40

music had changed and you

48:43

know I always as a producer want to grow

48:45

every time I do a record because

48:47

my producing is gonna

48:50

get better I'm gonna get better equipment I'm

48:52

gonna learn the equipment more I'm gonna have

48:54

tighten up the sound I'm gonna have a

48:57

better engineering I'm gonna have better mastering for

48:59

every project so yeah

49:01

the transition just kind of happened just

49:04

I guess naturally from what

49:06

it sounded like the first album to the next

49:08

album and the next album I just wanted to

49:11

make it better and better and better and

49:13

better. Talk about bringing punk energy into crunk.

49:15

Can I add one thing that was I

49:18

feel like maybe an 0

49:20

3 or 0 4 we actually did a phone

49:22

interview like a hundred years ago and you said

49:24

specifically this you were just like I'm making punk

49:27

music right like you said it back then like

49:29

it's that no one said it too like you

49:31

know right so yeah tell us about it I

49:33

feel like people don't know you have a punk

49:35

background as well yeah so I was going to

49:38

punk clubs in the 80s I was a skater

49:40

in the 80s before it was cool I was

49:42

gonna say Lupe and Freckle get the public credit

49:44

but talk about yeah Atlanta

49:47

skate culture I was skating in high

49:49

school at Douglas Frederick Douglas

49:51

High School in

49:53

Northwest Atlanta where black

49:56

people don't what are you doing mmm

49:58

right miss skateboard why your hair look

50:00

like that. I had a little swoop. I had a little Pee Wee Herman

50:02

kind of little swoop. But

50:07

like why you got this army jacket on?

50:09

Why you got combat boots on? Why are

50:12

you dressed like that? Why you got that

50:14

anarchy? What's that knee on the back of

50:16

your jacket? Like where were you getting

50:18

on? Yeah, how did you come to it? Skateboarding.

50:21

Skateboarding introduced me to

50:23

skateboarding, honestly, opened my

50:25

mind to other cultures,

50:27

other music. It made

50:30

me be able to be in a room

50:32

with people of different ethnicities and be able

50:34

to have a conversation and relate because Atlanta

50:36

is kind of segregated. Like what you say

50:38

over here, the Mexicans over here, white people

50:40

over here. Like that's how it was. So

50:43

most people don't know how to, if you

50:45

are not around other races, how are

50:48

really around them like hanging out and doing

50:51

things together, you can't relate. You

50:54

don't know how to have a conversation.

50:56

So skateboarding, all kinds

50:58

of kids is skateboarding and we run

51:00

skateboarding all day, all over

51:02

the city. We're spending time together and

51:05

then going to the skate contest, they're

51:07

playing faction. They're

51:09

playing bad brains. They're

51:11

playing dead Kennedy's. They're

51:14

playing all these bands and I'm like, are

51:16

the bands are in the skate videos? Because

51:18

we were buying the skate videos, VHS, Bone

51:20

Brigade and all of that crap back in

51:23

the day. So I

51:25

got exposed to punk culture and I started

51:27

to go into like, it's

51:30

a little known club. A lot of people don't

51:32

know about, but in the eighties,

51:34

the realist, the

51:37

realist punk club in Atlanta was a

51:39

club called the Metroplex. And

51:41

it was, it

51:43

was actually down the street, like

51:46

three minutes from the Phoenix, which

51:48

is crazy that later on, I'm ending up

51:51

DJing right. I used to go to this punk

51:53

club and this is where I seen like Faith

51:57

No More and the Chili Peppers and

51:59

like. Like all of the real

52:01

like, like, uh, misfits

52:04

and shit like that. Like all of

52:06

the real like new

52:08

wave and punk, but the late eighties, early

52:10

nineties were in this spot. Like this part,

52:12

this spot didn't even have a liquor license.

52:14

You know what I mean? Like it was

52:16

real. Where else a guy, his family used

52:19

to own the club recently.

52:22

I met cause we were, he was talking about it to me

52:24

and I was like, I

52:26

was blowing away that he knew about

52:28

the Metro place. We just haven't, I don't even know

52:30

how we got on the subject. He was like, yeah,

52:32

my dad owned that crazy.

52:34

And you're like, I grew up there. Yeah. Yeah. So

52:37

I've been in basically all of this

52:39

to say I've been in the real

52:41

punk clubs. I written, been in real

52:44

mosh pits. I've seen real punk bands.

52:47

So I know the energy

52:49

of that. And when I started

52:52

to go and be in, you

52:54

know, the five, five,

52:56

nine, when they play, lay it down, lay

52:58

it down. You hold it down in the

53:00

crowd. It's like, I could

53:02

not. So,

53:05

and so when I'm making music now, I'm

53:09

putting, you know, I believe

53:11

everybody, when you, when you make music, your spirit

53:13

is, is recorded into

53:15

the songs. So my energy

53:17

from being in those punk clubs,

53:20

that spirit, that energy is going

53:22

into the music, you

53:24

know? So, and that's how

53:26

we used to, I used to

53:28

pattern myself on stage. Like a HR

53:30

was like, yeah, my, you know,

53:32

Baburin is my favorite band. And then HR is

53:35

like, the way he is

53:37

on stage or was on stage,

53:39

his energy and his unpredictability and like,

53:42

he let the music take over him,

53:44

right? And let it just, and just

53:46

wild. And so I used to, you

53:49

know, get a beer and

53:51

spit it up in the air. I shake the

53:53

beer on the crowd and like,

53:55

you know, just rage. We used to

53:57

bring that into the stage show. So

53:59

yeah. punk, the correlation and

54:03

crunk was an expression of the youth. Like

54:05

it was a way people could go

54:07

and let out all of that energy

54:10

from the hard week of school life.

54:12

They go to the club and

54:14

they, cause they used to be mosh

54:16

pits in the crunk clubs. Of course. But was

54:18

it just people, it was like a

54:20

mosh. So, um, this

54:23

way they could get all that aggression of life out.

54:25

And that's, I saw the same thing in the punk

54:28

clubs in the eighties. So that's

54:30

why I would always make that correlation as

54:32

for what we were doing. And also, you

54:34

know, historically punk, especially in the late seventies

54:36

before it becomes sort of a little bit

54:39

more formalized, very disrespected by

54:41

the rock music of the day. Like, Oh,

54:43

those guys don't play instruments. Well, they're not

54:45

really singing. There's no lyrics.

54:47

Like, and I do think that that's,

54:49

that's kind of like a rap that

54:51

you and you would getting. And

54:53

I wonder like to be on the receiving end

54:55

of that, where you just like, I see it

54:57

connect. Yeah. Like punk song. Yeah. Right. And

55:01

it's a reaction to like the

55:04

lyrical rap of the mid nineties

55:06

and eight. We're in the VIP

55:09

that like, you got this car, you

55:11

got money. We ain't got all that.

55:13

It was like anti whatever.

55:17

Anti person with everything. Anti

55:19

jiggy. To use the term of the era.

55:22

That is literally, I've never thought about it

55:24

in his way till you said that. But

55:26

that is literally a punk freaking song. Right.

55:28

The lyrics. And what's it like then to

55:31

see the long tail of punk's influence and

55:33

rap all the way through, whether

55:35

it's drill, the rage

55:38

music, Travis Scott, Marty Moshpits,

55:40

Playboy, Cardi, obviously bringing Atlanta

55:42

punk. Even EDM, when they

55:44

do the, you know, they do the

55:47

the wall of death. I think is what they call

55:49

it when they make everybody split and run together. It's

55:51

just like I'm just sitting there

55:54

smiling. Right. You're like the godfather of all of

55:56

that. Yeah, like and I see Travis Scott and

55:58

some of the other artists are. Like when

56:00

they do these big festivals and they make

56:02

everybody mosh and I'm just looking like stage

56:04

diving. The music has come a long, hip

56:07

hop has come a long way. Another thing

56:09

that you did 20 years prior that's now

56:11

the norm. Like you go to

56:13

a Rolling Loud, you go to whatever Travis is

56:15

doing. Like if they were playing Crunk's

56:19

music songs, like you're from that, like it

56:21

would sound totally fine. Like it would make

56:23

total sense with what's happening in those spaces.

56:27

It's funny to me sometimes the music

56:29

recorded, when

56:32

they perform it, it's way more energy than the

56:34

way they record it. And

56:37

then they make the live show kind of match

56:39

more with the energy of the crowd. But yeah,

56:41

they got the crowd

56:43

mosh-pitting and they're stage diving and seeing

56:46

hip hop artists climb up on a

56:48

truck. And

56:50

off stuff. Like

56:55

that's all punk. And do you see a direct line

56:57

between what you guys are doing in Crunk and like

56:59

the sound of drill from Chief Keef on? I

57:02

don't know. I mean, I

57:04

think some of these artists, you couldn't help

57:06

but be influenced because we were the underground

57:08

music of the early

57:10

2000s and their older brothers, cousins,

57:14

aunts. You were listening to this stuff.

57:16

Like Crunk was big in every

57:18

city. I remember being here in New York.

57:21

We never did the tunnel, but we did a lot

57:23

of other spots. And

57:25

the music just used to, you know, this

57:27

was at the time of dip set. So they would

57:29

play dip set and then play my stuff. And the

57:32

club is a wrap. Great night. Perfect

57:34

night. So it's like they had to

57:36

get influence. I don't know. And

57:38

there's connectors in the middle. Like you think of them on like Waka, obviously

57:41

influenced by your stuff. He said it 100%.

57:44

And then Keef is looking at it. And he

57:46

told me his older brother used to listen to

57:48

them, but makes perfect sense. There you go. Yeah.

57:51

It's all over Flockevelli. And someone like Chardy Redd,

57:54

you know, producer has a through line between all

57:56

of these. Right. And he was doing

57:58

drama. Right. way

58:00

up to Jeezy. A drama. Yeah

58:02

he did live live live. That was

58:04

a big Atlanta record. Of course. Yeah

58:06

I mean I think it's yeah definitely

58:09

some influence there. I mean I had

58:11

my hand on the

58:14

pulse of pop

58:16

and underground culture in the 2000s.

58:18

Sure. It's hard to not be

58:20

influenced you know. Also someone who

58:23

brought you up recently last summer

58:25

we interviewed Pitbull and he

58:27

said you are the person who was

58:29

maybe the first person to say to him you

58:32

have to pursue rapping in Spanish. Oh yeah. You

58:34

can't just be a Cuban-American

58:36

who raps in English kind of like with

58:38

a little New York influence but on a

58:40

Miami beat. You have to lean into your

58:42

heritage. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about

58:44

that Eric because that obviously paid off 100

58:47

act programs. This was it's funny

58:49

how we met. So

58:52

I was I used to go to Miami

58:54

when I would go to Miami I would

58:56

like I like to walk down Ocean Drive

58:58

and then Collis. I like to walk down

59:00

the whole street and talk to people right.

59:03

But this particular day we were just on ocean

59:06

and I ran into a guy I

59:08

knew from doing bass all-stars because I came

59:10

down to Miami to do some records with

59:12

Devastator and Devastator y'all

59:14

know he did I want to rock.

59:17

So I had to

59:19

have him on the bass all-stars. Sure. I

59:21

know this one guy Rob from working in

59:23

Rob's studio and Rob is

59:26

walking with Pitbull. Now

59:28

go back about 6 to

59:31

8 hours. I'm in the car and I hear

59:33

this song. Oye. His

59:36

song Oye is on the radio. I'm

59:38

like yeah that's pretty cool. So I

59:40

have back forward meet Rob and

59:42

Pitbull on the beach and Rob's like yo this is

59:44

Pit. He's got this song Oye. I was

59:46

like oh I heard that on the radio

59:48

that's fire. Mind

59:51

you when I walk up and down the

59:53

street I would meet fans so a lot

59:55

of Latino fans was coming up to me

59:57

when I walked up and down the street.

1:00:00

down South Beach. And

1:00:02

so meeting Pitt was

1:00:04

I was like, you know what, I want you to come

1:00:06

get on the album because it was a way for me

1:00:08

to show my Latino fans that, you

1:00:12

know, so I was like, come, come

1:00:14

to the studio. And I didn't have, you

1:00:17

know, this just an idea that popped up when I

1:00:19

met him. So go

1:00:21

to studio, I make the beat. And

1:00:23

I'm like, Yo, just rap on this beat and

1:00:27

you know, whatever. So I

1:00:30

think he said, is it track 18? He

1:00:32

always says a track 14. I don't remember anyway.

1:00:34

So whatever track it was, he does it. It's

1:00:36

on the album. It's just Pitt Bulls cubing right

1:00:39

out. I'm going to show y'all how we ride.

1:00:52

From that day, we linked up and

1:00:54

we just had a friendship that was

1:00:56

kind of like unbreakable. We was always

1:00:58

together. And when

1:01:00

I, after Oye, I was like, you know,

1:01:02

I ain't really heard

1:01:04

nobody like you. Like, even though

1:01:07

we had big pun, it was different. Sure. Right.

1:01:10

And I like, I guess I liked the way his

1:01:12

sound and how he, he rapped. He

1:01:14

did his Spanglish, you know what I mean? Like, I

1:01:17

guess it wasn't, it was just New Yorkers. Yeah.

1:01:20

I mean, that wasn't no cousin. You think of

1:01:22

Pawn and obviously Pat Jones wasn't Cubans. And also

1:01:24

like you think of Pawn very much in the

1:01:26

tradition of New York, a lyrical rap and Fat

1:01:29

Joe very much in the tradition of New York.

1:01:31

A lot of Spanish. Right. And they were, they

1:01:33

were trying to be more intricate with it. And

1:01:35

they were trying to be more hip-hop. Right. And

1:01:37

Pitbull was like grew up on hip-hop, but like

1:01:39

also grew up on Luke. Right. Like one of

1:01:42

the party records. The

1:01:44

Oye record had a lot of Spanish

1:01:46

and English. So it was really unique

1:01:48

to me. And I was like, when

1:01:50

he would, I think when we'd be in the studio,

1:01:53

he want to rap more. I'm like, man, you gotta,

1:01:55

you gotta, you gotta hit

1:01:57

that Spanish bro. Right. Like you gotta, you gotta

1:01:59

rap that. Spanish. You felt the energy there.

1:02:01

Yeah. And so

1:02:03

he listened and that's why he kept coming

1:02:06

the way he did. And you produce Kulo,

1:02:08

right? Yeah. Kulo was something he just did

1:02:10

for a mixtape because he would put

1:02:12

out, you know, it's kind of like rappers

1:02:15

of take somebody record, jump on

1:02:17

it. Yeah. So

1:02:20

we were in the club. I didn't

1:02:22

even know he did this. We were in the

1:02:24

club and the DJ, he had all the DJs

1:02:26

on lock. So we're just, we used to live

1:02:28

in the club because that's how you get the

1:02:30

idea. You see what works and what doesn't

1:02:32

work. So we're in the club. The DJ plays

1:02:35

the song and I'm like, that's

1:02:37

you. I don't

1:02:41

know what you're saying, but that jamming. What

1:02:43

does that mean? He was like, what

1:02:46

is cool? I was like, what is cool? Like, cool

1:02:48

on his ass. I was like, oh, man, that's out of

1:02:50

here. I need to get on

1:02:52

that right now. He's like, it's just a mixtape. I'm

1:02:55

like, no, that's a hit, bro. Like that's a hit.

1:02:57

So we go in the studio, lay

1:02:59

my little parts on there and it's

1:03:02

a hit. But that was just something he thought was just

1:03:04

like a throwaway song. And I'm like, no, man.

1:03:06

Alright, so I went to high school in in Florida,

1:03:09

in Central Florida, graduated

1:03:11

in 2006. So when I say

1:03:13

my prom was crazy.

1:03:17

Get low. Yeah. Gasolina.

1:03:19

Wow. Like wall

1:03:21

to wall. Like soundtrack, soundtrack to

1:03:23

my youth. Wow. All right here

1:03:25

on the scout. Man, it's crazy

1:03:28

that all of those records are still

1:03:30

going. Like the fact that Daddy

1:03:32

Yankee called me and we

1:03:35

were able to do the bomb bomb record. And

1:03:51

then he went on a world tour and I

1:03:53

performed with him in like Columbia is like

1:03:56

and we hadn't really seen each other. No,

1:03:58

first we did. first.

1:04:01

I think we did Atlanta, we did Columbia,

1:04:03

and I might have performed him three

1:04:05

or four times, but the fact that we

1:04:07

hadn't seen each other in 20 years and

1:04:09

I was the first one to put him on summer

1:04:11

jam stage. Oh really? Oh yeah,

1:04:13

he did Gasolina with

1:04:15

me and Pitbull. Wild. Early 2000 summer

1:04:18

jam stage. Madness.

1:04:30

Yeah. Because

1:04:41

I put on what you're

1:04:44

gonna do remix, I did a Latin

1:04:46

version with Daddy Yankee and Pitbull and

1:04:49

Daddy Yankee murders it. So

1:04:52

what we did was I brought him out summer

1:04:54

jam. We did, we did the

1:04:56

what you're gonna do. Wow. And we did Gasolina.

1:04:59

Wild. And yeah. So

1:05:01

you've nodded at it but we barely even

1:05:04

talked about the sort of like third act

1:05:06

of your career which is the EDM era.

1:05:08

Yeah. How did you get pulled into that

1:05:10

world and like how did the EDM club

1:05:13

culture of that peak compare to Cronkara? The

1:05:15

ones, the previous ones you'd seen? Ah

1:05:18

well I think initially how did

1:05:21

this start? It might have started

1:05:23

with LMFA yard. Oh sure. It might have

1:05:25

started with Pit. Because when

1:05:27

we did the anthem, we

1:05:30

did the anthem, that was first. So

1:05:39

he called me to get on that record. I

1:05:42

got on that record and I

1:05:44

think we were shooting a video and I think

1:05:46

LMFAO came to the video. Now mind

1:05:48

you this is MySpace time and

1:05:51

LMFAO used to do a weekly video,

1:05:53

some weekly video stuff on in

1:05:55

MySpace and they had I'm in

1:05:57

Miami at the time. Um,

1:06:01

so golden merch era. Everybody

1:06:05

bring out your I'm in Miami bitch. T-shirts. Right.

1:06:08

That was huge. Right. So they

1:06:10

come to the video shoot. I meet them.

1:06:13

Right. And then also we

1:06:15

got, we met then, but then Eric

1:06:18

deluxe is the one that came up

1:06:20

with the shot, shot, shot. So

1:06:34

they're in the studio in LA

1:06:36

and then they hit me like,

1:06:39

yo, we got this record. We think you'll be

1:06:41

dope on. And then, um,

1:06:43

they sent it to me and I listened to

1:06:45

it. I'm like, oh my, I was in New

1:06:47

York. I'm like, oh

1:06:49

my God. I do the song in 10 minutes

1:06:51

and send it back. And they like, then

1:06:53

they go, Oh my God. This is incredible. So

1:06:56

through the anthem, then

1:06:59

shots. And then I met

1:07:02

Steve a Yokey. I

1:07:05

think the first time me and a Yokey man was, I

1:07:07

was in Miami

1:07:09

for winter music conference and it was

1:07:11

a party with Travis Barker on the

1:07:13

drums. Oh, and Travis Barker was

1:07:15

DJ. And

1:07:19

I got on the mic and so

1:07:21

it's all of us rocking like all night.

1:07:24

And after that, me and Steve

1:07:26

got cool. And then I

1:07:28

went in the studio with Steve and

1:07:30

we did turbulence. This

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and affordable way. And

1:08:12

this was still novel at the time because

1:08:14

rappers and EDM was totally different. Everybody was

1:08:16

looking at me like, what are you, EDM?

1:08:19

Did you see it as like a path

1:08:21

toward revenue for

1:08:26

one, but also like longevity because

1:08:28

whereas a lot of the rappers

1:08:30

of your era fell

1:08:32

off or became movie stars or

1:08:34

TV stars or whatever it was like there had

1:08:36

to be a pivot point. And

1:08:39

you found this well, I ship

1:08:41

late 2000s. I was burnt

1:08:44

out. Okay. I was in the studio trying to

1:08:46

make records. It wasn't coming out. I

1:08:50

ended up I got

1:08:52

invited to go to, uh, by

1:08:55

Reggie Bush to go to the first game

1:08:57

in the Superdome after

1:09:00

Katrina. When I finally, when they, everything's

1:09:03

back to normal in New Orleans. They

1:09:05

want to show that the city is

1:09:07

resilient. So the first game back after

1:09:11

the game, I go to the after party

1:09:13

and it's this guy DJing and

1:09:16

he's like killing it. And he's just really

1:09:18

inspiring me. Right. So got

1:09:21

my security guy to get his number. And

1:09:23

so whatever leaving

1:09:25

the next day in the airport, this kind of goofy

1:09:27

white guy comes up to me like, Hey, what's up?

1:09:30

I'm like, what's up bro? He's

1:09:32

like, it's me the DJ

1:09:34

from last night. Oh

1:09:37

wow. Okay. So his

1:09:39

name is DJ spider. So me and DJ spider

1:09:42

connects and I start

1:09:44

to see my next thing is

1:09:46

I'm going to start DJing again. Now, mind you,

1:09:48

I was a big DJ in Atlanta in the

1:09:50

nineties. I kind of quit

1:09:52

to start working at so, so deaf. And then I

1:09:54

became an artist in 95. So

1:09:57

this is, I'm burnt out.

1:10:00

Like I said, on producing. So

1:10:02

now I see, he turned me onto

1:10:04

this open format. Yep. Wave.

1:10:07

So, I start, he

1:10:10

gets me kind of set up with, you

1:10:12

know, new equipment, you know, he tells me

1:10:14

what to get, get Serato. Oh, because you

1:10:16

had missed that whole generation in between. When

1:10:18

it went digital. Like, you were digital. So,

1:10:20

he get me kind of set up with

1:10:23

all my stuff, and me and him started DJing together,

1:10:25

and then I started going to Vegas a lot, and

1:10:27

I'm seeing like DJ Vice, seeing AM.

1:10:30

And AM actually was the first DJ to

1:10:32

play Yeah in the club. Wow. I

1:10:35

didn't even remember this, but Feli Fell, I

1:10:39

went and hung out. I went to see Feli Fell. He

1:10:41

might have been on the radio, or

1:10:43

he might have came to see me. I was in the

1:10:45

studio, and I had Yeah, I was finishing

1:10:47

it. I had Yeah on the CD. And

1:10:50

so, we went to the club. The first beat or

1:10:52

the second beat? Oh, the first, the

1:10:55

second beat. Second

1:10:57

beat. I went to the club, and I had the CD,

1:10:59

and I gave it to AM, and he played it. Wow.

1:11:02

And I remember, nobody got off the dance floor. And I

1:11:04

was like, that means that's a good time. We're doing a

1:11:06

good job. So, anyway, so, started, you

1:11:08

know, I saw AM, saw Vice, and started to

1:11:11

go to Vegas, and I'm starting to get into

1:11:13

this open format scene. And then

1:11:15

that kind of leads me to seeing

1:11:17

the beginning of the EDM scene. Yeah.

1:11:19

So, fast forward back. Also,

1:11:22

shout out to DJ Chucky, because he put

1:11:24

me on a sexy bitch remix, David, David

1:11:26

and I together. So, he put me on

1:11:29

that. So, the sexy bitch shots,

1:11:32

and then turbulence is what really

1:11:35

knocked the door down for me on the EDM scene,

1:11:37

because like you

1:11:40

guys said, no hip-hop artist messed with EDM

1:11:42

yet. Right. Not at all.

1:11:44

And the EDM artist wasn't messing with the hip-hop

1:11:46

artist, and it took me time

1:11:48

to like get accepted, because, you

1:11:51

know, if you got a tight-knit community, you see this guy that was

1:11:53

over here. You're like, why do you want to come over here? Like,

1:11:56

he probably posing. Like he don't really want...

1:11:58

He ain't down with the... music and

1:12:01

they don't know your DJ background right like now

1:12:03

and I started to also go to all of

1:12:05

the festivals I started to hit the

1:12:07

festival you know gas where

1:12:09

you get the beer and like so EDC

1:12:13

LA yeah it's a

1:12:16

very notorious story for me saving it

1:12:18

from getting shut down oh the last

1:12:20

year was in LA turbulence

1:12:22

is out so I'm

1:12:24

there hanging out all day and

1:12:27

they're jumping the fences people in

1:12:30

the like GA

1:12:32

in the stands there was fences

1:12:35

so they couldn't come down on the field you have

1:12:37

to pay more to come on the field so

1:12:39

all day kids are jumping the fence mm-hmm and

1:12:42

they're trying to stop the kids from jumping the fences

1:12:44

throughout the day and then

1:12:46

at this one particular point the guy

1:12:49

gets on the mic well before

1:12:51

that will I am got on the mic once because

1:12:53

he was there and he said something they

1:12:55

stopped for a second yeah

1:12:59

so the guy from EDC the host

1:13:02

got on the mic he's

1:13:04

talking to him they just jumping while he's talking saying

1:13:06

stop please don't do that it's gonna get shut down

1:13:09

and I was like something just told me to go

1:13:11

get the mic I

1:13:13

went and grabbed the mic and I

1:13:15

said a speech I just made it up on the

1:13:17

spot it was called pull that mother down and

1:13:19

I was like you

1:13:22

paid your money to get in here

1:13:24

you want to see a show and

1:13:26

you want this keep thing to keep

1:13:28

going if you see somebody pull grip

1:13:30

climb that fence you pull that mother

1:13:32

down if you see somebody go close

1:13:34

to the fence you pull that mother

1:13:36

down like I did this whole speech

1:13:38

is on YouTube you can google it

1:13:40

little John EDC LA and

1:13:42

it was incredible and

1:13:45

impactful and nobody went toward even

1:13:47

close to the fences the rest

1:13:49

of the night because they were

1:13:51

scared of getting pulled down right

1:13:53

and past well the first

1:13:55

day me and past well really met he was like

1:13:57

I'm gonna pay you just to stay here because

1:14:00

he had never seen like people was

1:14:02

shocked at how much control I had

1:14:05

over this so that's

1:14:07

a legendary story but yeah when I first got

1:14:09

into the EDM scene it was

1:14:11

I was not accepted like the magazines

1:14:14

the blogs were like nah and

1:14:16

it just it took me just

1:14:19

being present you know all these

1:14:21

festivals and always collaborating with all

1:14:23

these different DJs and finally

1:14:26

they they they embrace me and I

1:14:28

ended up having EDM

1:14:30

song of the year would turn out for what 2014

1:14:33

exactly so I kind of started

1:14:35

in EDM in 2010 and

1:14:37

in four years me and snake has

1:14:39

made four songs of the year and one of

1:14:41

them like the defining I mean like if everyone

1:14:44

is gonna make a list of like the five

1:14:46

most important EDM songs or 20 like

1:14:48

that's on there if the one that makes the river ball yeah I

1:14:50

mean yeah wow

1:14:52

yeah I mean that's it how many EDM songs

1:14:55

get played in the Super Bowl but

1:14:57

it's interesting to me because and you

1:14:59

said some of these names already but

1:15:01

whether it's DJ AM Travis Travis

1:15:03

Barker there were people in

1:15:05

that time period in the early 2010s

1:15:08

who I think didn't

1:15:10

play didn't make hip-hop music but were raised

1:15:12

on hip-hop oh yeah so there's like a

1:15:15

little bit of that a lot in them

1:15:17

and they're like okay and then

1:15:19

you come along and you have a punk

1:15:21

background but you DJ'd and you made rap

1:15:23

records right and so I'm sure they're looking

1:15:25

at you like she knows the same stuff

1:15:27

I know you know like we can find

1:15:29

common ground right but that common ground was

1:15:31

not in hip-hop it turned out to be

1:15:33

in the yeah right like a yokee

1:15:35

started off as a hip-hop DJ I'm 99% sure DJ Chucky

1:15:39

started off as a hip-hop DJ of

1:15:42

course a.m. started up as a hip-hop clubs in

1:15:44

New York a lot of a lot of EDM

1:15:47

DJ started off in hip-hop yeah in the 90s

1:15:49

what was the hottest music right new what

1:15:51

is it about you as a person

1:15:54

that's allowed you to jump from all

1:15:56

these subcultures and eventually always be accepted

1:15:58

it was learning how to be

1:16:01

accepting of other genres,

1:16:04

people. If I wasn't

1:16:06

a skater, I don't think I would be as open-minded

1:16:08

as I am. And what got you into skating? One

1:16:12

of my homies had a job at

1:16:15

a skate shop and

1:16:17

I think that was how it initially started and then

1:16:19

I got a job at the skate shop and

1:16:22

I was starting this, you know,

1:16:24

we were skating. Every skater wouldn't

1:16:26

work at the skate shop. We

1:16:28

think you get free board, free, whatever.

1:16:31

So I think one of my friends was in it first and

1:16:33

then that kind of turned me on to it. And

1:16:36

yeah, like if the, you

1:16:38

know, I had never really listened to reggae

1:16:40

before. Like that turned me on to Steel

1:16:43

Pulse. Yeah, sure. You know what I mean? Like

1:16:46

the diversity of the music that would get

1:16:48

played in the festivals and

1:16:50

on the skate, VHS

1:16:53

tapes, skate videos, and

1:16:56

then just what kids would play when you

1:16:59

all skate together. Somebody got a boom-bop. You

1:17:01

know, so like all of that created

1:17:04

musical diversity and opened my mind

1:17:06

up to the big picture,

1:17:08

the world. You know, because we

1:17:10

have, you grow up in a certain community, you only

1:17:12

know one thing, but my mind is open

1:17:14

to so many other things. And you know,

1:17:17

started off with punk and you know, like

1:17:19

reggae, but then it also turns

1:17:22

into like new wave. You know, Suzy

1:17:24

and the Banshees, all the British stuff.

1:17:27

Love and Rocket. You know, I went new

1:17:29

wave for a while. New order. You know

1:17:32

what I mean? Like people are like probably like,

1:17:34

how long were there a lot of black kids

1:17:36

in Atlanta during that era who were on that

1:17:39

same wave? It was a small group of

1:17:41

us. And we all were from different parts of

1:17:43

the city and we would all hang out.

1:17:45

Your parents, how

1:17:47

did they feel about you getting into punk, getting

1:17:49

into music? I mean, if I'm not mistaken, they're

1:17:51

both either military or military affiliated. My

1:17:54

mom was in the reserves. My mom

1:17:56

was a nurse. My dad worked at

1:17:58

Lockheed. Yep. kind of

1:18:00

engineering like just welding planes together.

1:18:04

I think they

1:18:08

didn't really understand it, but

1:18:10

early on my mother and father were like,

1:18:14

I kind of lived in the basement. It was

1:18:16

like a basically like an apartment. Like I had

1:18:18

a bathroom, kitchen area. We

1:18:20

had, it was a bar down there. It wasn't

1:18:22

for me, my parents had did it. With a

1:18:24

big screen TV in the middle of it and

1:18:27

a little lounge area. And we ended up having

1:18:29

a little area where we could set up the

1:18:31

turntable. So it was like a dance floor. So

1:18:33

they would rather me hang out at

1:18:35

home than to go places.

1:18:37

So I think my punk

1:18:39

era, yeah, my dad didn't really understand

1:18:42

it, but he

1:18:44

was accepting, you know,

1:18:46

and then I went through,

1:18:49

then I started to DJ and he

1:18:51

wasn't understanding that either. It's like, why you want me to take

1:18:53

you to a record shop? What you doing with these records? I

1:18:56

saw this records and he didn't get

1:18:58

it. And then I went

1:19:00

through my Ross safarian stage in the early

1:19:03

nineties when most, you know, it

1:19:05

was the tribe called

1:19:07

Quest and Jungle Brothers, Shairas,

1:19:10

so it was pro black and all of

1:19:12

that. So I went through all of that

1:19:14

and he didn't get that either. Cause I

1:19:16

would have dreads come to the

1:19:18

house sometimes. He's like looking at them

1:19:20

like, like rosters, real rosters. He's like,

1:19:23

what are you doing hanging out with these guys?

1:19:26

You kept them on their toes. Right. But

1:19:28

then as they saw me like getting

1:19:30

a job DJing, they were like,

1:19:33

Oh, okay. So

1:19:35

he was figuring it out and he's,

1:19:38

he's finding his path. Sure. And

1:19:40

they, they really became accepting after

1:19:43

they saw me actually

1:19:45

working. And then I think also once

1:19:47

I got to social deaf too, right.

1:19:50

And got social deaf and You had a business card. Yeah,

1:19:52

I did. Yeah. So all of that,

1:19:54

I think they were like, okay, he

1:19:57

was just a kid finding himself. When you were at

1:19:59

social deaf, I'm actually curious. is because so much is

1:20:01

happening in Atlanta at that time. It's such fertile

1:20:03

territory. Was there anyone that you really wanted to

1:20:05

try to sign, but weren't able to get on

1:20:07

to something like that? Luda Chris came to us,

1:20:09

but I didn't hear it. I didn't

1:20:11

see it. And I don't think we were the

1:20:13

right place for him at the time. I don't

1:20:16

regret that decision. I think JD might. But

1:20:18

I don't think JD heard it

1:20:20

either. So he came with the Inca Green

1:20:23

Growner Project, which was like his first event. I think he

1:20:25

had one song. I think he had one song. And I

1:20:27

don't think it was. Did you know him from the radio?

1:20:29

Yes. Yeah. Because my

1:20:31

partner, Emperor Cersei, was on. It

1:20:34

was Hot 97 Five at the time. So

1:20:38

he was on the radio with Luda. But

1:20:42

yeah. You found each

1:20:44

other eventually. Yeah, exactly. We in that

1:20:47

crazy? Yeah. He always told

1:20:49

me that he would come ask me advice

1:20:51

because he was an independent artist. So he

1:20:53

would ask me what I thought about

1:20:56

this How

1:20:58

should he proceed doing that? So

1:21:00

yeah. I

1:21:02

actually got him on Bea Bea before we

1:21:05

got the deal. I think he was already

1:21:07

on it before I got the deal for

1:21:09

a while with TV2. I'm

1:21:11

pretty sure he was. And any of

1:21:13

the sort of like emergent, what we now think it

1:21:15

was the emergent street rap stuff from

1:21:17

Atlanta in the late 90s, whether it's early Gucci or

1:21:20

any of that stuff. Was that stuff even on radar

1:21:22

when you were still so, so tough, or was it

1:21:24

too early? Oh, no. Gucci wasn't. I don't

1:21:26

think Gucci was too early. Yeah, I was too

1:21:28

early. This is 90. I started in

1:21:30

93, and I left in 2000. Right.

1:21:34

So you were writing down by the time

1:21:36

Trap was making off. Yeah. Yeah.

1:21:38

Because I had kind of checked out. I

1:21:41

had gotten really popular, and I was

1:21:43

on doing shows every weekend. You were a pop

1:21:45

star when the trap stuff took over. Yeah.

1:21:48

In a way. Oh, yeah. When the trap took over. Yeah,

1:21:50

I was out of that. So

1:21:53

OK. So when I saw you on the

1:21:55

Super Bowl, my first thought was

1:21:58

damn, Lil Jon looks good. Yeah. Tell

1:22:01

us about your health journey. Because we were

1:22:03

talking a little bit before the show about

1:22:05

you trying to eat right, you checking your

1:22:07

water, making sure the water sourced correctly. When

1:22:10

did you when did you decide, I have

1:22:12

to have to look after my health? And

1:22:14

also maybe the additional question on top of

1:22:16

that is prior to that,

1:22:19

when you're living hard, you're living fast, like

1:22:21

it's like, yeah, like how rough was that

1:22:23

on because fame is a physical challenge as

1:22:25

much as it is like an emotional thing.

1:22:27

I mean, it was a lot of tequila

1:22:29

drinking and a lot of like, I

1:22:32

would sleep in, you know, sleep

1:22:34

off the alcohol. When you're the shots

1:22:36

guy. Yeah. Yeah. That was the problem.

1:22:38

Like you make a song called shots.

1:22:40

You always got to drink with people.

1:22:43

So I think around

1:22:45

2012, 2014, it was a driver that used

1:22:47

to drive me in L.A. I

1:22:53

think he told me that he had a triple

1:22:55

bypass and he was like 10, 12 years younger

1:22:57

than me. Wow. And that really hit

1:23:00

me and it made me

1:23:02

say, I need to get I

1:23:04

need to get healthy because the older

1:23:07

I get, the harder it's going

1:23:09

to be to reverse whatever is

1:23:11

happening. Yep. So I think it was

1:23:13

my might have been like 2013, 2014. It

1:23:17

was a guy that used to be on the road

1:23:19

with me doing my visuals. And

1:23:21

he would choose every day. And he

1:23:23

was like, yo, you should get on this juicing.

1:23:25

You know, it's going to help you with this.

1:23:28

And it's, you know, telling me the benefits. And

1:23:30

I started juicing. It started with green juices, ginger

1:23:33

shots. So that was my starting

1:23:36

point into like really getting healthy. And then

1:23:38

I got a trainer and

1:23:41

then me and my boy, Shadi, started working out a

1:23:43

lot when we were working on my

1:23:45

album, Crunk Rock.

1:23:48

We started working out. And have you ever thought

1:23:50

about your health before that? Or you know, when you're

1:23:52

young, you just think you're invincible.

1:23:55

You know what I mean? You think nothing can

1:23:57

happen to you that have him

1:23:59

having triple bypass that's

1:24:01

some serious stuff you know

1:24:04

started working out started getting into the juicing and

1:24:06

then every year

1:24:09

you learn a little something right I started going

1:24:11

to holistic doctors and then I

1:24:13

started like you know looking

1:24:15

in the different herbal concoctions because I was like

1:24:17

I don't want to put chemicals in my body

1:24:19

if I get sick I want to learn how

1:24:22

to treat myself with herbs because you

1:24:24

know herbs we believe that

1:24:26

like the the earth gives

1:24:29

you everything you need to treat you right

1:24:31

so started getting into herbs

1:24:33

a little bit figuring out what concoctions I would

1:24:35

make and then I got in the sea moss

1:24:37

found Dr. Sebi got into the sea moss and

1:24:41

then fast forward

1:24:43

I turned 50 and

1:24:46

two years ago it's a 2022 2022

1:24:48

I turned 50 and

1:24:50

I just kind of start reflecting on life and I'm

1:24:53

just like ah

1:24:55

you know I don't know how much time I

1:24:57

got left I want to really you know oh

1:25:00

and also I had had this

1:25:02

lingering little pain on my side

1:25:04

look discomfort on my side and

1:25:06

that kind of scared me so

1:25:08

turning 50 that's happening starting

1:25:11

to go through a divorce and

1:25:15

dealing with the divorce I'm going through all this

1:25:17

stress and so I

1:25:19

start to say these affirmations and starting

1:25:21

to meditate every day I was gonna

1:25:23

say when does the meditation edit so

1:25:25

this is what's trying to start the

1:25:27

meditation and I have to stop drinking

1:25:29

because of this thing on my side because when

1:25:31

I drink it gets more agitated and go

1:25:34

to the doctor like Andre 3000 say colonoscopy

1:25:36

yeah things that happen in my life like

1:25:38

what are you talking like I gotta go

1:25:40

get a colonoscopy like what do you

1:25:43

like what do you rap about the colonoscopy

1:25:45

time find out do blood

1:25:47

work out cuz I'm scared

1:25:49

as my liver so that's why I immediately stop

1:25:52

drinking and then I find

1:25:54

out it's not my liver is just some

1:25:58

irritation in my in my gut.

1:26:01

So I'm

1:26:03

like, okay, so all these lifestyle changes

1:26:06

are happening and the meditation

1:26:10

starting to meditate every day, I would go

1:26:12

outside every day and give

1:26:14

thanks to God for being alive and

1:26:17

drink some tea. And I have a

1:26:19

pyramid on my back patio and

1:26:22

I would sit in my pyramid meditate, drink my

1:26:24

tea and start my day. And

1:26:27

around this time I talked to my good

1:26:29

friend, Doug Davis and my attorney and I'm telling

1:26:31

him, you know, what's going on in my life.

1:26:33

And I'm like, I kind of want

1:26:35

to do this, do some meditation, like sleep

1:26:38

music and stuff. And he was like, I

1:26:40

know what God is in that space. So

1:26:43

he introduces me to Kabir Sego,

1:26:45

who is the producer of the album. And

1:26:49

I mean, Kabir get together

1:26:51

and he was like, you ever thought about

1:26:53

doing guided meditations? Like, let's, we should do

1:26:55

the guided meditations. So we,

1:26:58

we write it up and then

1:27:00

I go in and I records like

1:27:03

five albums worth of stuff. Wow. Now

1:27:06

imagine yourself in a

1:27:09

place that makes you

1:27:11

feel safe and

1:27:13

secure. I'd like to

1:27:15

welcome you to total meditation. It

1:27:18

was really great for

1:27:20

twofold one, because it was a way

1:27:22

that like I

1:27:24

could offer some something to help people. Like

1:27:26

music is great. Music helps you escape. Yeah.

1:27:29

But this is going to help people deal

1:27:31

with things that are stressing

1:27:34

their lives deeper than rap, help, help

1:27:36

them to get some conclusions or to

1:27:38

get past things or to deal with

1:27:41

whatever issues. Right. And

1:27:43

then to my son is

1:27:45

the engineer on this project. So he can

1:27:47

also see my growth as a human being

1:27:51

and understand that like, okay, as,

1:27:55

as, as he grows older, it's a constant elevation

1:27:58

and constant figuring your soul. No

1:28:00

foul and figuring out where you want to

1:28:02

go, Nixon, where do you want to do

1:28:04

it? Figure now that you know you can

1:28:06

you can also pivot and go a different

1:28:08

dynamics done a couple times, movie or not

1:28:10

so great bit right if you're the yeah

1:28:12

okay white guy and and you're doing guided

1:28:14

meditation and like it's a great very well

1:28:16

aware me as an also at this time

1:28:18

an epiphany came to me because like before

1:28:20

I was feeling like for of the for

1:28:22

like a year. I was filling

1:28:24

like is something else I'm supposed

1:28:26

to. don't suppose we don't suppose

1:28:28

be doing more something else you

1:28:30

found the calling year was something

1:28:32

else for the be doing and

1:28:34

in after we recorded and I

1:28:36

was like oh it was this

1:28:38

because does can come out and

1:28:40

help people I got can junior

1:28:42

really make a. Put

1:28:45

some good into the world and that's what

1:28:47

happened when this was released Play of Years

1:28:49

Also put as a good agent were alone

1:28:51

so years no no no I gotta be

1:28:53

I says is funny hear you talk about

1:28:55

that era, this era of music like that.

1:28:57

But to meet. Those punk records

1:28:59

that's their own. That's therapy rise of

1:29:01

yeah well I guess is the growth

1:29:03

don't you know? Like any stage of

1:29:05

my life. And he missed his brother.

1:29:07

Eight when you and your forties and

1:29:09

fifties and you're really are or of.

1:29:12

Don't. Yeah, you need to release

1:29:14

distress he wants. and as you

1:29:16

get older, Was. Is everybody

1:29:19

wants peace? Helps. You.

1:29:21

Want that you are arm. Might.

1:29:24

Might the reaffirmation us everyday. I am

1:29:26

happy. You want to be happy. Every

1:29:29

by wants to be happy. I am healthy.

1:29:32

Everybody wants health speak and when you

1:29:34

get older because you see people heart

1:29:36

attacks, strokes all around you, high blood

1:29:39

pressure, hypertension, And. I'm at

1:29:41

peace. Every by wants peace in

1:29:43

their home in the world. Everything

1:29:45

so. That's. Where I'm at

1:29:47

Now and my live? Yeah, all of those

1:29:49

things were great, but. I'm

1:29:51

one of progress in now where. I'm.

1:29:55

I'm just trying to spray positivity. Yeah,

1:29:57

you know, more positivity. Aunts and his

1:29:59

group. As a person I'm trying to

1:30:01

be the best human I can be in

1:30:03

his time in my life and was just

1:30:06

driving follow their goodness he not been blessed

1:30:08

this year with Superbowl. I was shocked about.

1:30:10

Twenty. Years did to to just look back

1:30:12

and say. Wow. My biggest

1:30:14

record was twenty years ago. Did.

1:30:17

I can say. Thank. My second biggest

1:30:19

rec It was ten years ago. So.

1:30:22

As lie and and wow. I'm.

1:30:24

Doing the Superbowl. This year.

1:30:26

Like so it is. You know we

1:30:28

had to be thankful and and and

1:30:30

you know understand how Bless. You

1:30:33

know are on the stab list I

1:30:35

have to ask you you do have

1:30:37

crystal on a chain through and I

1:30:39

can't help but wonder where is the

1:30:41

crunk? A dead assess as silence. ah

1:30:43

I got rid of that. Know what

1:30:45

to do to stop us from New

1:30:47

Do outside the movies. He's trying to

1:30:50

bring their movement valley. I respect it's

1:30:52

we had a couple conversations here now

1:30:54

a my son actually hangs out with

1:30:56

no notice. he was you like.like you

1:30:58

sold Edu at met someone melted ice

1:31:00

my yeah bill downwards I gave it

1:31:02

back. To Jason Jason of Beverly Hills and

1:31:04

created when I was in it it was

1:31:06

in a Guinness Book of Records. Is is

1:31:09

is forever locked into history or a fair

1:31:11

enough arm. I do. I. I.

1:31:13

Wanna know what is the ultimate

1:31:15

Pinnacle? Soren Atlanta Rapper and is

1:31:18

it Superbowl now? Or is it

1:31:20

getting your photo on the airports?

1:31:22

Would you belong to? A year

1:31:25

when you are on the escalator

1:31:27

is coming up an Ariana. Rely

1:31:31

on. Ludo.

1:31:33

You know? yes he has his chicken and

1:31:35

be a restaurant around air been airport. yep

1:31:37

so I think he was on there and

1:31:39

I saw Jd on now was like. I.

1:31:42

get opiates or decided to my out

1:31:45

of my out of silicon a like

1:31:47

unknown he nods all my money on

1:31:49

his etti a jedi done this thing

1:31:51

but i think my characters recognize around

1:31:53

are freaking world so i had to

1:31:55

make some phone call your life you

1:31:58

as young as you can be You're

1:32:00

a fear. Yeah, proactive. Yeah, and I was like,

1:32:02

no, y'all gonna have to get me up there.

1:32:04

Like, come on, man. It's me. Come

1:32:07

on now. So yeah, that

1:32:10

is the ultimate, like,

1:32:13

you are Atlanta for real, if you

1:32:15

own that thing that's coming up there.

1:32:17

Oh, 100%. I

1:32:20

made it in my city. Shall

1:32:23

we pivot to snacks? So every week,

1:32:25

I'm popping up to like snacks, snacks, snacks, exactly

1:32:27

exactly exactly. Every

1:32:32

week, I'll pop guess looks we sample a snack.

1:32:34

OK, Lil John's here. So we had to

1:32:36

go extra big. It's Girl

1:32:39

Scout cookie season. Oh, season. Absolutely.

1:32:41

Oh, yeah, it's very controversial. We

1:32:43

got multiple flavors. We got we're

1:32:45

going to do a little spread

1:32:47

of Girl Scout cookies. And Lil

1:32:50

John's going to decide once and for all what you got

1:32:52

to bring the block. Don't just you know, we're doing a

1:32:54

lot of things. We're going to be fast. I

1:32:57

think we should have the boxes and

1:32:59

go from least throw that box out of here.

1:33:01

Oh, wow. Oh, you want to do

1:33:03

like a live almost like a live. Yeah, live. Do

1:33:07

it. It's March Madness. Yeah. OK, because

1:33:09

I mean, I know what I have

1:33:11

my favorite Girl Scout cookie. Oh, you

1:33:14

already know. Come on, we've been

1:33:16

eating Girl Scout cookies. Here's

1:33:18

the thing. I got it. I got a solution.

1:33:20

Some new flavor. There are some flavors. OK, I

1:33:22

didn't do the full spread. I have six of

1:33:24

them. And I have some old classics and I

1:33:26

have some new faces. OK, and we'll do it.

1:33:28

We'll go. Let's do it. So one of the

1:33:30

great innovations in Girl Scout cookies is the girls

1:33:32

in my neighborhood put up flyers with a QR

1:33:35

code. It's QR codes now. Wow. I hit the

1:33:37

QR code and just order. And then they just

1:33:39

show up at the house? They just show up

1:33:41

at the house. Like a certain guy. Delivery service

1:33:43

that they used to have in the 90s and 2. OK.

1:33:46

Like three days. It was like three days shipping.

1:33:48

Wow. And imagine the amount of boxes that these

1:33:51

girls are. Oh, they knew you had a QR

1:33:53

code. You can order like

1:33:55

everybody's used to buying things in bulk. Yeah,

1:33:57

absolutely. They probably don't buy like. I

1:34:00

just went off the top of my head

1:34:03

picking what spoke to me. Alright, so we

1:34:05

got the Samoas. Of

1:34:08

course. A classic. Okay.

1:34:11

Alright, this I think is a relatively new one.

1:34:13

I didn't look it up. These are called Adventure

1:34:16

Fools. These are brownie with caramel and sea salt.

1:34:18

This is like new generation. Yeah,

1:34:20

that sounds like some LA. Right, we'll

1:34:22

see you in a little sprinkle. Caramel

1:34:24

and sea salt. We'll go right on

1:34:26

there. Alright, we got the Dosey Dose.

1:34:28

Oatmeal and peanut butter filling. I

1:34:31

remember those. Classic. Classic, yeah. Alright,

1:34:33

let's see. Another classic, we got the

1:34:35

Tagalongs. These are the chocolate covered peanut butter. I do

1:34:37

want to say in advance, I want to apologize to all

1:34:39

Girl Scouts because we are going to be ruthless and if

1:34:41

I don't like them, they don't make the cookies. It doesn't

1:34:43

matter. They push you over. I just want to be very

1:34:46

clear. I just want to be like, yeah, they just move

1:34:48

them like drug dealers. That's fine, Bob. Just let them know

1:34:50

what's going to be good and what's not going to be

1:34:52

good. Alright, Thin Mints. The number one

1:34:54

feed coming in. Thin Mints is number one.

1:34:57

I think that's the most popular Girl Scout

1:34:59

cookie, don't you? I actually feel like I'm

1:35:01

not the best. I'm the most popular bread.

1:35:03

Oh, I skipped the shortbread. How do you not get

1:35:06

the shortbread? Too boring for John. Oh

1:35:08

my God. That's my number

1:35:10

one. But OK. Alright, and then

1:35:12

this is also a relatively new flavor. I believe this

1:35:14

is the s'mores. The s'mores flavor. You seen the s'mores?

1:35:16

I've not had this.

1:35:19

That's like what we used to get these like

1:35:21

a Vienna finger kind of. Yeah, John. Put

1:35:26

another box out here. Y'all

1:35:29

making me mess up my diet. It's GJ. It's

1:35:32

GJ. I'm not gassed deluxe. Smell

1:35:35

that. Yeah, yeah, we do. Gotta smell. Let's

1:35:37

do the smell test. Yep. You

1:35:39

like that? Oh, OK. Smell

1:35:41

that. It's lightly artificial. I will

1:35:43

say it's a lightly artificial smell. I mean, I

1:35:45

understand. But it smells pleasant. It smells pleasant. It's

1:35:48

a nice marshmallow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a nice

1:35:50

marshmallow. Lightly artificial. I've crushed a pack of these

1:35:52

already. Years past. Not this year. Vanilla

1:35:56

M. Oh, no, I'm talking.

1:36:00

That's kind of busing. It's

1:36:03

really good. I'm gonna be honest. I don't love

1:36:05

the thickness of the cookie. You think

1:36:07

there's too much? It's too much cookie. Take

1:36:10

another bite. Wow. Oh, I got some of

1:36:12

the marshmallow. Oh, it's kind of bus. I

1:36:14

think the marshmallow is this guy a bus

1:36:16

fake marshmallow. I gave this a

1:36:18

strong like eight. Why not? All right. That's

1:36:20

pretty good. Solid eight. I'm gonna give

1:36:22

it an eight five. Y'all are wilding.

1:36:25

I think it's a great 4.5 to 5. Wow. Wow,

1:36:29

that's crazy. Actually wilding. All right, we're

1:36:31

going we're going Samos next. Just

1:36:34

coming in I'm just gonna state my bias. This is my

1:36:36

Girl Scout cookie. I will see how they hold up. I

1:36:39

do think the recipes change every couple years. You

1:36:41

know, they take a little different than you remember.

1:36:43

I feel like I had the flavor of that

1:36:45

first one. That was really good. Yeah. All right,

1:36:47

you're big on the s'mores. You

1:36:49

want a palate cleanse? You want like a little bit of water? Sushi

1:36:52

restaurant? Should we get some ginger? This

1:36:56

don't look like what it used to look like. That's what

1:36:58

I'm saying. I think there's shrinkflation going on too. They smaller

1:37:00

than you remember them? Yeah, they used to be thicker. They

1:37:02

used to be way like this big. Yeah, and I feel

1:37:05

that way about the tagalongs too. We'll get to them. Okay.

1:37:11

Consistency right though. Consistency right. It's

1:37:14

a soft crumble. This used to be so freaking good.

1:37:16

I used to get these in a shortbread. You think

1:37:18

this is worse than it used to be? The flavor

1:37:20

is still there. Yeah, it just not it doesn't look

1:37:22

as good as it used to. And

1:37:25

it's smaller. The chocolate layer is thicker on the

1:37:27

top. And also it used to be

1:37:29

more of a caramel layer on the top as well?

1:37:31

A little caramel. It just onto the chocolate. That to

1:37:33

me really holds it together. This is pretty busting. It's

1:37:35

still a nine for me. I'm

1:37:37

gonna go seven on this. Seven and a half. It's

1:37:39

good, but it ain't. You're a little disappointed. That

1:37:41

first one had way more flavor. That

1:37:44

was a big punch by the s'mores coming out. Yeah.

1:37:46

All right. Thin mints? Okay,

1:37:49

so thin mints at their best frozen.

1:37:51

You ever had a frozen thin mint? You stick it,

1:37:53

you take one sleeve, you stick it in the freezer. All

1:37:59

right. I remember these too. Smells

1:38:02

a little like toothpaste, right? Can't

1:38:05

help it. Trash. Trash. Wow.

1:38:08

Thin mints or trash? I don't like thin

1:38:11

mints. It's like your grandmother's candy. It's like,

1:38:13

you know, there's like Andy's candies. Remember the

1:38:15

little like rectangle joints? It's like those. This

1:38:17

reminds me of, when I take a bite

1:38:19

of that, it reminds me of plastic on

1:38:22

furniture and mothballs in the closet. Wow.

1:38:25

It's coming out specific. Wrong, I guess. That's

1:38:27

grandma's house. All right, so what's the score?

1:38:30

Zero. Oh, wow. That's a

1:38:33

grandma's. I'm sorry if you like the

1:38:35

thin mints, but that is some old people

1:38:37

shit. I don't

1:38:39

disagree. I feel like in the

1:38:41

80s, there was like food that was like meant

1:38:44

to be snack food, but was not actually that

1:38:46

sweet or not. That's what this is. This is

1:38:48

like a holdover from that era. But you know

1:38:50

what thin mints has to me is repeatability. You

1:38:53

can eat like 10 thin mints in a row.

1:38:55

It ain't nothing about that. It's too hard to

1:38:57

peel it. It's too cardboard. That's not a snack.

1:38:59

It's mint. Wow. When is mint? When

1:39:01

do you eat? Mint chocolate chip ice cream? Nah. No.

1:39:04

All right, I'm still going. Absolutely not. 7.5,

1:39:08

you're out of your mind. That's like trash.

1:39:11

That's a four at best. I've

1:39:13

never heard somebody hate on thin mints like that. I

1:39:16

tell you what, you take that to bingo, they gonna

1:39:18

give you 10 out of 10. Wow. You

1:39:20

take that to rolling loud, they gonna run you

1:39:22

up out of there. It's your kids today would

1:39:24

not stand for a thin mint. Hell no, it's

1:39:27

terrible. All right, number four. And

1:39:29

this is my bias. This is probably my cookie.

1:39:31

The tag along. The tag along peanut butter. So

1:39:33

I'm gonna take two because I know I'm the

1:39:35

one too. I think I do. Let's stay screwed

1:39:38

with it. All right, but did these also shrink?

1:39:40

They seem smaller. Everything is smaller. Yeah, everything is

1:39:42

smaller. Maybe we're bigger. Are we bigger? Are we

1:39:44

bigger? The box thing is definitely bigger for the

1:39:46

record. I'm about to seem the same size. The

1:39:50

smell is right. These are great. I

1:39:52

mean, here's why this

1:39:54

cookie is good. There's a lot of layers. We all

1:39:56

got bias. Number one, the

1:39:58

sturdiness of the cookie. section. It holds

1:40:01

up, doesn't collapse too quickly, doesn't

1:40:03

go to dust too fast. The

1:40:05

chocolate is a thin layer, but it

1:40:07

still feels kind of rich. It still

1:40:09

feels luxurious. And the peanut butter on

1:40:11

top really, really, most

1:40:13

70. The butter, like,

1:40:15

where did I get the peanut butter?

1:40:17

Unbelievable. I don't know. Really? Just not.

1:40:21

It's no balance of flavor. I'm gonna go

1:40:23

to the first. The first one was well

1:40:25

balanced in the cookie, in

1:40:28

the marshmallow, and in the chocolate. Right.

1:40:30

All I taste is peanut butter. And

1:40:33

it's like super rich. Like,

1:40:37

maybe I don't eat sweets that much

1:40:39

anymore. And it's like, sure, blowing up

1:40:41

your taste buds. But I like that

1:40:43

it's different. It's different flavors

1:40:47

and different textures. One thing I

1:40:49

struggle with about a cookie like this,

1:40:51

these girl's cookies in general, a

1:40:54

unanimity of texture. This to

1:40:56

me has a number of textures. So I feel like

1:40:58

depending how you're chewing it, you're getting different types of

1:41:01

things. I agree with both of you. I think like

1:41:03

two of these at a time is enough.

1:41:05

I still think it's like a strong nine.

1:41:07

I'm taking that box on one. Two of

1:41:09

those at a time? Yeah, it's enough for

1:41:11

me. That's bad. You want to

1:41:13

be able to, you want, that's what I'm saying.

1:41:16

You want it so good that you're going to

1:41:18

eat a whole sleep. But he said that about

1:41:20

cinnamon. I'm saying because they're not reliable, you can

1:41:22

have a bunch of them. Whereas because these are

1:41:24

so rich, but I'm still saying this is a

1:41:26

nine. This is still a better cookie. I give

1:41:28

it a nine. Wow. This is enough. Really? I

1:41:30

give it a five. A harsh girl

1:41:33

scout cookie critic. All right. So, dossi-dos.

1:41:35

We're back. We're with the peanut butter

1:41:37

still. The dossi-dos. This is

1:41:40

a peanut butter variation. This might be more

1:41:42

to your liking. And it's a sandwich. So it's

1:41:44

a little bit more sandwiches. No, not as much, but

1:41:46

maybe you might like this. But this is like an

1:41:48

oatmeal cookie. Oh yeah. I remember these. I used to

1:41:50

love these. This

1:41:53

is like a nutter butter

1:41:55

basically. This is an old folks candy.

1:41:57

Another old folks. Yeah. Another old folks. It's

1:42:00

a straight rip of another butter. Yeah, straight rip.

1:42:03

It's good. I got no quarrels

1:42:05

with it. I'm not mad at it It's a

1:42:07

little neutral for me. Mm-hmm It's a little like

1:42:10

the kind of like 80s candy where you're just

1:42:12

like, oh y'all found one thing to do in

1:42:14

a cookie It's like a rich peanut butter sandwich.

1:42:16

It's a more than a cookie more grandma again.

1:42:18

This is something your grandmother had. Mm-hmm And

1:42:21

she was like don't touch my cookies. Right? That's

1:42:24

my special treat. Right? I'm gonna blue 10.

1:42:26

You're right a cookies Yeah, but

1:42:28

I think this is good though. This to me is

1:42:30

a this is a seven and a half It's another

1:42:32

one where I could eat a bunch of these. Yeah,

1:42:34

I give it a seven. Yeah, I think I'm out

1:42:36

of seven Respectfully, it's no tag along. That's all

1:42:38

right. Y'all will come to the y'all come around y'all will come

1:42:40

around man. Um Adventure

1:42:43

full this is a new flavor. Am I

1:42:45

correct? I think that's right. Maybe not this

1:42:47

year but relatively new. Okay, so adventure fulls

1:42:50

Indulgent brownie inspired cookies with caramel

1:42:52

flavored cream. Cram. That's not a

1:42:55

crime with that That's

1:42:57

actually wrong. Yes. Yes. He thought this

1:42:59

is this is the artisanal girl. Yeah,

1:43:02

this is the I'm taking two cuz

1:43:04