0:00

Probably Science. Hello

0:11

and welcome to Probably Science, I'm Andy Wood.

0:13

I'm Jesse Case. I'm Matt Kirshin and we

0:15

are joined by a returning guest, friend of

0:17

the podcast, and I was going

0:19

to say new author but repeated

0:22

author. He's all, he's authored

0:24

multiple times now. Recidivism is

0:27

happening with the writing. Yeah. Brand

0:30

new book out, Moshe Kasha, how's it going, Moshe? Oh,

0:34

great. I think that you've

0:36

coined a term, repeated author. I think

0:38

that's what people called. Can

0:41

I, no, I don't want to immediately interrupt

0:43

but has Matt

0:46

Moshe, Matt, have you called

0:48

him Moshe before? Is that a known nickname? I

0:50

don't know. It's a great question, Jesse, thank you.

0:53

No, you're welcome. I, well, no, I've

0:55

noticed- I feel like I have. I feel like I've

0:57

said that before and he hasn't like immediately bulked and

1:00

that's the rule in society. It's very- If you do something

1:02

and someone doesn't immediately say please don't do

1:04

that again, then that's fine. That's basically them saying that

1:07

whatever you did is okay. Well,

1:11

I've noticed there's not enough pushback in

1:14

American culture of British

1:16

nicknames. Who

1:18

do British nicknames? The

1:21

British will just give you a nickname, you know?

1:23

They'll just have added the gate. And

1:25

some of the Australians, but they do it

1:27

differently. Like I think the Brits will shorten

1:29

and the Australians will add in. Yeah, they'll

1:31

just do a racial slur, right? Exactly. But

1:34

it's, yeah, it's, you know, if you're like, hey,

1:37

I'm Beverly or whatever, it's immediately like, hey, Bevs.

1:39

And it's like, well, we're not there yet, you

1:41

know? But I- I mean, I've

1:43

had a great test case because my

1:45

name is so like difficult to

1:47

pronounce that I will respond

1:49

to literally anything anyone calls me

1:52

as long as it's vaguely reminiscent

1:54

of an M at the front. Okay.

1:58

All right. No, it's fine. kosher

2:00

masher? Oh yeah

2:02

I get called that constantly. That's

2:04

like a really a constant thing. I'm

2:07

actually surprised it hasn't come up earlier

2:09

in the podcast to be honest. Yeah.

2:12

You know what is sort of sad is

2:14

that every I would say six months or

2:16

so somebody comments on Instagram

2:18

calling me motion capture thinking that they

2:20

have come up with that and

2:23

I just feel bad because it is it

2:25

is the most oft repeated

2:29

play on my name so I don't know how to

2:31

let them down. And also you're always walking around in

2:33

that suit with ping-pong balls on it. I know yeah

2:35

the green. That's my thing. Well

2:38

me and Andy's circuits are very tight. Yeah

2:44

I know I just didn't know if I was I was

2:46

like is everyone calling emotion I'm not in the club I'm

2:49

not there yet you know what I mean like we

2:51

haven't established. Do you want to

2:53

call me that? No I mean if

2:55

that's your thing I mean I'll do it you know I

2:58

just I thought we were friends and then I got got

3:00

a mind about it. My thing well my thing is hiring

3:02

a bunch of men to make love to my wife while

3:04

I watch. Yeah no I know.

3:06

That's my thing. If we're talking about my thing

3:08

that's really what I would say my thing is

3:11

but in terms of nicknames I'm very open-minded. Well

3:13

that's how we that's how we got the motion

3:15

capture of you jerking off and that's how we

3:18

applied it to those. Yeah ping-pong

3:21

balls if you know what I mean.

3:23

Yeah no I mean we

3:25

all know about the cash or cut

3:27

chair and we've all been there. I've

3:30

been thinking ever since the

3:33

rise of the of the extreme right I've been

3:35

thinking about how frustrating it must be

3:37

to be a conservative

3:41

real cock you know

3:44

like you're you're a pro from pro

3:46

America yeah America

3:48

first but your thing is that you like to have

3:50

a bunch of men make love to your wife in

3:52

front of you and your that identity

3:54

is it making love is it making love

3:57

at that point like Make

4:00

love to my wife make sensual love. I'm

4:03

gonna let you know why I said making love. It's

4:05

just because I felt Self-conscious

4:08

about using the phrase fuck

4:10

your wife on a podcast

4:14

Sure, sure No,

4:17

I get it. Yeah Yeah,

4:20

do they yeah, is it like that's not your

4:22

word to use Right

4:25

exactly exactly that that's our word and

4:30

I'm racist. I hate immigrants I'm

4:32

a xenophobe and I like this

4:34

kink and so I why are

4:36

you robbing me of my identity?

4:40

Just in order to insult our political

4:42

adversaries also I I would say With

4:46

no real it with no

4:48

data or evidence to back this up, but

4:50

based on pure speculation I would

4:52

guess that that kink is more prevalent in In

4:56

racist communities because kinks have a

4:58

tendency to reflect deep

5:01

seated fear or anxieties and

5:03

be And

5:06

so the idea of someone like a group of

5:08

black guys having sex

5:10

with your With your white wife

5:12

or when you're a white racist is

5:14

I feel like that's more likely to

5:16

happen than It is in someone who

5:18

sees all races as equal Mmm,

5:23

you know, they're taking all our bull

5:25

jobs. They're moving in they're taking our

5:27

bull Ramming

5:29

our wives What

5:33

you just said Matt is is probably

5:36

science that is probably nice That is

5:38

that is as close to accuracy as

5:40

we ever get so listen you're there

5:43

and it's also the subject of most his new

5:45

book Yeah But

5:48

but there are a bunch of other Subcultures

5:52

so that you are involved that it that is by the

5:55

way Are you I'm sure you're aware of this

5:57

because there's no way you haven't googled or

5:59

check this out Cause.

6:01

You're a human being who lives in the world, but

6:03

are you aware that there are. Three

6:06

books about your life that on

6:08

Amazon. Ah, One of

6:10

them is Catherine the Right which came

6:12

out a few years ago. Great read

6:14

x of about your early is one

6:16

of them is the brand new book

6:18

Sub Culture Vulture which we gonna talk

6:20

about which is just come out and

6:22

then there's also most a Casa the

6:24

unauthorized biography tells Had a Dixon an

6:26

adolescent sixteen by Adam seems weeks. You've.

6:30

Gotta be kidding. I did not know that fit

6:32

into this is a I book. What is this

6:34

like? It feels pretty ai it feels like Adam

6:36

things weeks I've it doesn't exist or. Has.

6:41

Will. No need to out my nom de

6:43

plume. I worked really hard on this book

6:45

about motion and. You. Know

6:47

that yeah I see this, I water. I want

6:49

a bad here. I'm given own author has I

6:51

Just the fact that he doesn't seem a little

6:53

say the unauthorized biography on I'm just going to

6:55

assume it was unauthorized even before you said you

6:57

hadn't heard of it based on the fact that

6:59

you have written. To author barbers

7:01

his yourself being a professional rights us

7:04

ah the what he does it off

7:06

If I married the. That's

7:08

a funny idea that an Ai factory

7:10

somewhere if turn a draft of the

7:12

unbelievable success of my day. We had

7:15

a difficult enough time selling copies of

7:17

the book written by the author elbow

7:19

I will say this me this year

7:22

ten years after it with published it'd

7:24

well when it came out but this

7:26

year weirdly enough due to a. To.

7:29

A viral tic toc from my I'm

7:31

Bialik. It became a bestseller a decade

7:33

after. Oh, that's all mouth And so

7:35

right now as my next book is

7:37

about to come out or has already

7:39

come out depending on this episode, drove

7:42

I am getting tons and tons of

7:44

Diva Dmz messages from people who just

7:46

read the book. It's a very strange

7:48

experience of the sprinklers after something happens

7:50

If very very cool. but the maybe

7:52

I'll get maybe that's why Adams A

7:54

Week's did it. To be honest, May.

7:57

Be Did you realize you know?

8:00

Did you get the code? a bump? When. That came out

8:02

Did you get a go to bump? I was

8:04

all you know we had your movie can know the movie

8:06

Cota right? right? Oh, that's where you do cope with a

8:08

bunch of people. deaf parents, Yeah. Yeah,

8:11

I've done that for sir. Yeah, the old feel

8:13

center and sign. We've. All been there

8:15

are. the signing gets very aggressive in

8:17

very. Very fast

8:19

as a successful and what? What is

8:21

the sign for a bitcoin? I

8:26

can't tell you that, but I can tell

8:28

you the sign for cocaine is exactly what

8:30

you think. Get his. Arms

8:33

or so at Adam James Week has

8:35

also published Ron Howard and Said Howard

8:37

Biography by Howard Brothers of Journey to

8:39

Hollywood that is that that is The

8:42

title says the how his brothers over

8:44

Johnny Rotten have you entered his success.

8:46

That is the grammar as aren't to

8:48

get away. I'm sorry to

8:50

get a weird feeling about this.

8:52

This Adam same squeaks and he

8:55

is also contributed to have. A.

8:57

Book about The Incredible Hulk and a Book

8:59

about Robin Of of Back of A Batman

9:01

and Robin. And handle

9:03

know the dion often arteriography. The

9:07

unauthorized biography of the Incredible Hulk assess

9:09

assess it's was again. The Incredible Hulk

9:11

has his own books that he's written.

9:15

Lot now. I have

9:17

high mass or know, like me when

9:19

I'm angry as being green thus coauthored

9:21

with Kermit the Frog. Ah,

9:25

if you really want to screw with this guy, you should

9:27

authorized this. Know I

9:29

really honestly say I wonder what

9:31

I've probably a nearby fi authorized

9:33

your Adam Adam Day Weeks has

9:35

now been fully authorized to penn

9:37

a book. called a cancer

9:39

in the guy says that i put i

9:42

put a link to it in the on

9:44

the website by the way you can look

9:46

at it in the announcement on cause large

9:48

masses have you did you look at the

9:50

rent the the ron howard ron and clint

9:52

howard is a biographies not even spelled correctly

9:54

on the cover if you give our looks

9:57

oh i miss oh it isn't i miss

9:59

not that it's the biography.

10:02

Oh my

10:04

god. And also the word the word

10:06

the name is also arranged so it

10:08

looks like it says Ron and Howard

10:10

Clint. Yep. You

10:13

know, I once saw Ron. I

10:16

once saw Ron Howard in a this isn't a

10:19

great story. I'm going to warn you and your

10:21

listeners. But I once saw Ron

10:23

Howard in a parking lot and

10:25

I had one of these living in

10:27

LA has this very common experience

10:30

where you look at someone and you're like,

10:32

do I know you from the like the

10:34

Bay Area from Burning

10:37

Man from AA or are you

10:39

Brad Pitt? Like you never when

10:41

you see someone familiar you go

10:44

and I saw Ron Howard and my

10:46

brain couldn't compute fast enough who

10:49

he was but I knew that I knew him so

10:51

I waved at him like a little boy and he

10:54

completely ignored me. Oh,

10:56

I feel like and then about an hour later

10:58

I was like that was that was the

11:01

subject of Adam J Weeks is seminal

11:03

classic. Well, 50% of the subject. Let's

11:06

not forget that

11:11

he shares the credit with Clint, the

11:14

two brothers of Journey to Hollywood. Right.

11:17

And you guys have both have the same

11:19

person as pinned unauthorized biographies. You guys, you

11:22

know, if you see him again, you could talk about that. Next

11:26

time you bump in. Oh, yeah. I'll go. Hey,

11:28

Ron, let's not talk

11:30

about happy days or your 40 year

11:32

career as a director. Are you familiar

11:34

with the works of Adam J. We.

11:36

And he's like, I never authorized that

11:40

biography. I

11:43

did not. As an aside about

11:45

seeing celebrities on the same block

11:48

that I accidentally saw Ron Howard.

11:50

I once walked into a restaurant

11:53

and Arnold Schwarzenegger was there.

11:55

And I walked in

11:57

and we made eye contact and he gave me a

11:59

look. that I can only

12:01

describe as, Hi,

12:05

yeah, it's me, Arnold

12:07

Schwarzenegger. This is pretty

12:09

fucking awesome for you, isn't it? Right,

12:11

right. Congrats. It

12:15

was definitely like, this is the look he gives everybody.

12:17

This is awesome. He didn't even need to speak. He

12:19

just kind of looked at me and nodded and I

12:21

was like, yup, you

12:23

got it. It's me. Right.

12:26

And then you gave him the look you always give

12:28

celebrities. And then he said, y'all fuck your wife. And

12:33

I said, I said for me, I'm a

12:35

conservative, so it's more

12:37

of a racial thing. So that's not going to work

12:39

for me, Arnold. But

12:41

having an Austrian would be good. I mean, oh

12:44

yeah, you're right. You're right. I'm

12:48

sorry, Jesse. I said, correct it. That would

12:50

be, that is the ultimate cuck. That's the

12:52

ultimate. I'll do it, I'll

12:54

fuck her. Should I bring the

12:56

uniform? No, I have it. I have it. It's

12:59

literally Mr. Universe, who is the

13:01

son of a Nazi. It could

13:03

not get better. Right.

13:05

I'll fuck your wife. Yeah.

13:11

So look, you, let's talk about, you briefly

13:13

name checked some of the subcultures that you

13:15

have been a part of that is the

13:17

subject of this book. But

13:20

let's go through this, because this is maybe

13:22

some of the stuff that Adam didn't manage

13:24

to get in his, let's face

13:26

it, probably pretty thorough biography. Yeah.

13:31

Okay. Yeah. So you start, number one,

13:34

child of deaf parents. That's, that was

13:36

probably, I'm going to guess that was the first subculture

13:38

you're part of on account for that having been the

13:40

case from birth. Yes,

13:42

I would say that I

13:44

was born, well, okay,

13:47

yes, because you don't get circumcised. And by the way,

13:49

the main thing I want to talk about here on

13:51

Probably Science is the moral

13:54

imperative for all

13:56

baby men to get circumcised. I

14:00

really wanted to discuss that. I think

14:02

that it's an absolute rule and every

14:04

single male baby needs to be circumcised.

14:06

I really wanted, that's really the ax

14:08

I wanted to grind today. But you

14:11

don't get circumcised until you're

14:13

eight days old and that

14:15

really is the symbolic welcoming into the

14:17

Jewish community. It's like a death toll.

14:20

Yeah. Yeah,

14:22

they sign closer and closer to your penis

14:25

until finally you don't have a foreskin anymore.

14:28

Yeah. You really don't want to

14:30

know what blind parents do. That's right. Yeah,

14:33

it's 10 days and it's gnarly. I'm

14:36

just saying that you don't get circumcised until you're

14:39

eight days old. So I would say technically I

14:41

was in the deaf world before I was in

14:43

the Jewish world maybe. Okay.

14:48

I get, but they're pretty simultaneous. They're pretty

14:50

much the same. That's how you know you've

14:52

made a good point on a podcast when

14:54

all the hosts simultaneously say, okay. Sure.

14:59

Yes and period. So

15:07

you're born, your parents are

15:09

deaf. You don't know yet,

15:12

you know, because you don't know what that means. You

15:16

get brissed up, all right. You're brissed out.

15:19

I'm brissed out. I, we have a little brissed up.

15:21

You have a little brissed up. Yeah. Do

15:23

you want to know actually the way that I

15:26

was born into a lineage

15:29

of ultra, Orthodox

15:31

Hasidic Judaism, like pretty hardcore in a

15:33

way that I think most people wouldn't

15:35

really fully understand. And that hardcore.

15:39

Well, that's a very unique and very

15:41

recent facet of the Hasidic community. By

15:43

which I mean literally this week, I'm

15:45

still trying to wrap my brain around

15:48

the particulars of that tunnel. But what I

15:50

can say is that, yes. Oh

15:52

no, I was gonna say, I read last

15:54

night, a long explainer on

15:57

Twitter from someone who is

16:00

Hubbard member who was explaining

16:02

roughly what was going on there and

16:04

like I got but I was thinking

16:07

when I was reading that Oh, we've

16:09

got Moshe on the show tomorrow and

16:11

he was raised partly in ultra Orthodox

16:13

Brooklyn Judaism But this was ultra ultra

16:15

like this is more because wasn't it they

16:19

The the previous rabbi they thought he was

16:21

the Messiah so they were digging well Here's it

16:23

here's the complicated thing about the bod who are

16:25

the people that dug the tunnel, right? Um, I

16:27

don't want to lose the thread of my circumcision

16:29

you guys please bring me back to that We'll

16:32

get you back to it. We'll get you back.

16:34

Okay, great The

16:36

thing about Chabad Specifically is

16:39

that they actually of all the

16:41

Hasidic Jewish groups. They are by

16:43

far the least hardcore

16:46

at least when it comes to

16:49

interfacing with the non-jouish and

16:51

non-religious Jewish community they are

16:55

The the diplomats of the Hasidic Jewish

16:58

world They do outreach into into the

17:00

though They're the guys on the corner

17:02

that come up to you and say

17:04

are you Jewish? Have you ever any

17:06

of you ever had this experience? I

17:09

mean I have as a as a Jewish first both in

17:12

I think I've had it in America and I certainly

17:14

had it when I Was in Israel because

17:16

they're all yeah go and visit the Wailing Wall

17:18

there there and that yeah The deal is because

17:20

Judaism is not Evangelical

17:23

outside of the faith like it's almost aggressively

17:25

non evangelical. It's quite is hard to correct

17:28

Yes, but but they are even more acidic

17:32

But but they sort of are evangelical within Judaism

17:34

in that they will try to convert Secular

17:37

or less religious Jews into being

17:39

more observant. Is that fair to

17:41

say? Well most It's

17:44

sort of fair to say most

17:46

Hasidic Jewish groups specifically In

17:49

particular the ones that I grew up

17:51

in do not do that. They don't

17:53

care about non-religious Jews I

17:55

mean, I guess they abstractly care about them,

17:57

but part of their mission is death definitely

18:00

not to go out into the world,

18:02

find non-religious Jews and bring them into

18:04

the fold. The thing about a

18:06

lot of the Hasidic Jewish groups, specifically

18:09

the ones that get a lot

18:11

of news reports and

18:14

attention paid to them for moving to

18:16

a small community and taking it

18:18

over, taking over a school board, those

18:21

are the kinds of groups that generally,

18:23

after the war, after

18:26

World War II, moved to America

18:28

kind of in pieces. They were

18:30

a shattered people and they looked

18:32

around at the world surrounding them

18:34

and they thought, okay, we've been

18:36

living amongst wolves for the last

18:39

thousand years and we just almost

18:41

became completely destroyed. So the way

18:43

to salvage all that's left

18:45

of who we are and what we

18:47

are is to build a wall around

18:49

the remaining shards

18:52

of holiness that still exist in our

18:54

community and essentially create little

18:57

Wakandas inside of the society they

18:59

live in. So these are the

19:01

worlds that I grew up in.

19:03

My father married into a Satmar as

19:06

one of the sects of Hasidic Judaism

19:08

and the other one that my family's

19:10

connected to is called New Square. Now

19:13

New Square is very interesting in

19:15

that they are a village in upstate New York

19:17

and in Hillary Clinton's

19:20

Senate race, 100%

19:22

or statistically

19:24

close enough to 100% of the citizens

19:28

of New Square, New York voted

19:30

for Hillary Clinton for Senate and

19:33

in an unrelated story, one of

19:35

their rabbis was offered

19:37

a pardon by Bill Clinton due to

19:39

a Pell Grant scandal. So that's the

19:41

way that they kind of like operate.

19:44

They're like little rings,

19:46

like villages that don't ever leave the

19:48

walls of their little village and New

19:50

Square women don't drive. This

19:53

is upstate New York, upstate New York, women

19:55

do not drive in this community. So like

19:57

that's the universe that I come from. there

20:00

was one, yes go ahead.

20:02

No, no I just said that. No, I was just

20:05

saying and you know Andy and I when we lived

20:08

in Valley Village it was bananas.

20:10

It was like the house. Valley

20:13

Village got nothing on New Square. Oh no, no

20:15

I know, I know. I'm saying because I'm saying

20:17

like we were even like we were on the

20:19

block. We were the only I'd say Gentile house

20:21

on the block. So

20:24

oftentimes you know it

20:26

would just I'd be the only one driving on a Saturday you

20:28

know and everyone would look

20:31

angry. You know like we're walking home

20:33

Friday night. Yeah, yeah. Yeah

20:35

I mean a big part of that is

20:37

due to the graffiti that you have on the side of

20:39

your car that the anti-semitic stuff. That

20:41

was a weird choice. Yeah,

20:44

but you know you have to establish, they say

20:46

they say come to town and make a splash.

20:48

And yeah you definitely did. Yeah. With

20:51

pig's blood. You did it. You did make a

20:53

splash with pig's blood. So

20:56

no I'm not I'm not comparing it to a

20:58

community that's like this is the community you know.

21:01

So that yeah that's the universe

21:03

of Hasidic Judaism mostly is that

21:05

they're like we're going to just

21:07

live just a degree

21:09

outside of society and make these

21:11

little villages inside of the dominant

21:13

society but there was one sect

21:16

of Hasidic Judaism that

21:18

went the opposite direction. They

21:20

said let's get into the

21:22

community let's be friendly let's go interface

21:24

with with other with other non-Jewish communities

21:26

let's go out into the world and

21:28

find all the Jews that we can

21:31

that aren't affiliated and bring them back

21:33

into the fold. And the

21:35

reason that they did that is they

21:37

had a really brilliant charismatic leader Menachem

21:39

Mendel Schneerson who was their

21:41

Rebbe. Every Hasidic community has a Rebbe

21:44

like a king at the top of

21:46

the hierarchy and their Rebbe Menachem Mendel

21:48

Schneerson was truly a one-of-a-kind leader he

21:51

was a genius and he said

21:53

his main message to the Chabad

21:56

world was if we if

21:58

we do one more mitzvah one more

22:00

good deed if one more Jew puts on

22:02

the reason they're asking Matt or anybody are

22:05

you Jewish in the street is to try

22:07

to get you to put on the

22:10

kind of the morning prayer they're called to fill in

22:12

there these like let have you ever seen them guys

22:14

these like leather straps that you wrap around your arm

22:16

and put on your head and I like and then

22:18

you recite the prayer yeah

22:22

so no things we

22:24

were asked I was asked once

22:26

right you said no and then they were like have a

22:28

nice day right yeah but we

22:30

had a muzzoza on the door right

22:33

that had just been there so it wasn't

22:35

it wasn't like off-base but I

22:37

didn't know what was my point is I didn't know what

22:39

was happening though look if it

22:41

wasn't for you it was they come to you

22:43

they say are you Jewish you say no and

22:45

they go thank you have a nice day and

22:47

now if you say yes I am Jewish the

22:50

interaction goes much much right no it wasn't

22:52

it wasn't like a problem I had just

22:55

never experienced that with Judaism is always like

22:57

Mormons and shit yeah you know I'm saying

22:59

right I had never so I was like

23:02

I was like what an interesting question almost like

23:05

I was like a you

23:07

know taking a census or something I was just like no

23:10

and that was here's the thing

23:12

if there's one thing that Jews

23:14

find comforting it's people going door-to-door

23:16

knocking and saying are you Jewish

23:18

we love that historically that's yeah

23:20

historically that's been a good yeah

23:23

so so so Khabad started with this

23:26

charismatic leader and he said if we

23:28

do one more good deed we don't

23:30

know that good deed that will bring

23:32

the Messiah and so with

23:35

that two things happened Khabad started to

23:37

spread around the world literally

23:40

there's Khabad offices

23:43

in every big city in the world the most the

23:46

biggest Passover meal in the world is

23:48

held in Kathmandu Nepal because there's so

23:50

many Israeli tourists there they set up

23:52

a Khabad in Kathmandu and there's like

23:55

a thousand people that come to this

23:57

Passover Seder every city you go to

24:00

there will be a Chabad rabbi and

24:02

trying to get one more good deed

24:04

done. The other weird thing that happened

24:06

is that because he

24:09

was saying Menachem Mendel sneerson, you know

24:11

one more deed and the Messiah will

24:13

reveal himself They very

24:15

quickly started to think wait a minute.

24:18

It's you isn't it? You're the guy

24:20

you're waiting you're waiting

24:22

for us to do the good deed so you

24:24

can reveal yourself as the Messiah and

24:27

and then Menachem

24:29

Mendel sneerson did an interesting thing which

24:31

is he did not say no, I'm

24:33

not the Messiah now whether he was

24:36

Thought he was the Messiah or he just wanted more

24:38

good deeds to get done and thought he could use

24:40

that I don't think anybody really knows but then a

24:44

Thing that you will not believe happened.

24:46

He got very old and he died

24:49

and then Messiah is not Supposed

24:51

to die. That's a big thing You

24:55

know key ingredient I'd say it's a key

24:58

ingredient the Messiah is not supposed to die

25:00

There's another religion that says he did and

25:03

we have had some issues with that religion over the

25:05

years. So So

25:07

the community kind of split very

25:09

quickly had a crisis of faith because their

25:11

whole mission was to was

25:14

to bring about this guy's revelation of himself

25:16

as a Messiah and now he's dead and

25:19

so a Large

25:21

portion of that community thought to themselves.

25:23

Wait a minute. What if he's

25:25

not dead? What if he is hiding

25:27

and he's gonna come back from the dead and

25:29

reveal himself to be the Messiah does this sound

25:31

familiar to anybody? Right. Sure.

25:34

Sure this. Yes. Yes Yes,

25:38

George Carlin so

25:42

So now now we have a very

25:44

tricky situation in the Hasidic world Which

25:46

is that the main infrastructure of Orthodox

25:48

Judaism around the world the ones that

25:50

have the kosher butchers and the the

25:52

synagogues And they do the circumcision and

25:54

they conduct all the Orthodox Jewish life

25:56

around the world is now being run

25:59

by at least half of

26:01

the people who think that the Messiah is

26:03

still walking around in the world and is

26:05

going to re-reveal himself, it created this like

26:07

massive crisis of faith in the entire Orthodox

26:09

world, which is what

26:11

are we going to do about these Messiah nuts,

26:13

right? And

26:16

over time, very slowly, the

26:19

demographic of people in that world that

26:22

still think he's the Messiah got smaller,

26:24

but not small, but smaller and smaller.

26:26

And I think we are finding out

26:28

this week, they got more and more

26:30

hardcore. And this week, for reasons I

26:32

still don't quite understand, they built a

26:34

tunnel into their main synagogue and have

26:37

been camping out in it. And there

26:39

were near riots in the main synagogue.

26:41

This is I put a link to this thread explainer,

26:43

and we'll put it in the show notes as well. It's

26:47

a long we are, it's far too

26:49

long to go through in this show. It's about

26:51

sort of 30 or so tweets long. But the

26:54

gist of it of what I remember is there

26:56

is literally so the building where

26:58

the synagogue is, is attached to 770. There

27:01

we go. It's called 770. Yeah. And I've

27:03

been there, by the way, I've been to

27:05

770. My dad took me on a field

27:07

trip to 770 to meet

27:10

the Messiah himself, Manaka Mando Sneerson, and

27:12

he gave me a dollar. Oh, all

27:15

right. What did you

27:17

keep it? Did you spend it? What did you do with that dollar? I

27:20

guess I wish I had it. I that

27:23

was his thing, you would line up for

27:25

hours to see him, he would give you

27:28

a blessing, and then he would give you

27:30

a dollar. I'm not exactly sure why. You

27:32

can insert anti-Semitic joke here, but that was

27:34

his ritual. All right. I mean, this

27:36

is so so

27:39

by understanding from the thread is there is a literal

27:42

turf war over the

27:44

ownership of that space. And

27:46

the hardcore few who you've

27:49

been talking about, is

27:51

a hardcore group have been

27:53

literally digging their way into the into

27:57

the space from a next found

28:00

out about it and so they brought in

28:02

cement trucks to fill in the holes and

28:05

stop it like the main Khabad

28:07

people. So they brought

28:09

in cement trucks and

28:11

this group basically attacked the cement trucks and disabled

28:13

them and that's when the police were called. And

28:16

the police came in and this

28:18

group scattered and part of the, and so the

28:20

video you saw of the guy climbing up through

28:22

the drain and running away, that was basically them

28:24

running away from the police who were called after

28:26

they tried to dismantle the cement truck that was

28:28

brought in to fill the hole. So

28:32

that was being attacked. It's

28:35

also the origin story of the Hasidic mutant

28:37

Ninja Turtles. I'm not sure if you even

28:39

know that. Right. The

28:41

secret of the ooze. That's right. The

28:43

ooze is... There it is. If

28:51

we eat one more pizza, the Messiah

28:53

will reveal himself. But

28:55

here's the part I don't understand, Matt. When people

28:57

say radical, we mean it in the cool way.

29:00

They're radical Jews. Look

29:02

at them. They're

29:05

karate chopping and skateboarding. Yeah, cow and fungal.

29:07

I don't get the part I don't get.

29:09

I get every detail of the story, but

29:12

I don't still understand why the tunnel. What

29:16

was the tunnel for? Does

29:19

it have something to do? And you'll have

29:21

to forgive me for knowing

29:23

nothing about any of this. But

29:25

for instance, our Andy and I's old neighborhood, there

29:27

was a thread, like a literal thread going around

29:30

the whole thing. No, this isn't that. Yeah. So

29:33

this wasn't to connect domiciles? Like it wasn't

29:35

like a... Does

29:37

that make sense? I mean, I'm just asking. It's called

29:39

an arrow. Yeah, no, it's not

29:41

that. I mean, maybe it's... I don't know. It

29:44

wouldn't make sense because that community is already... What

29:47

that is... I mean, this is going

29:49

to get into the arcana of Orthodox law,

29:51

but the arrow is like an imaginary legal

29:53

fiction of a wall surrounding a community so

29:55

that you can carry things on Shabbat. And

29:57

I don't see how a tunnel... I

30:00

understand that. I just mean if it's technically

30:02

like if you bought the... So

30:04

people are like, okay, we're kind of... The

30:09

770 folks think we're freaks. What

30:12

if we buy the Chick-fil-A

30:14

next door and connect them

30:18

without them knowing? You know

30:21

what I mean? And then it would

30:23

be a part of... The Chick-fil-A would have the

30:25

spiritual essence of 770. Yeah, it's something. I just

30:27

didn't know if it was... Yeah, it seems like

30:29

they were trying to connect it for probably non-violent

30:31

reasons. Yeah, no, so it wasn't a full tunnel.

30:34

So I think basically

30:36

the deal is that it

30:38

isn't actually like a long

30:40

tunnel in the sense that we would understand that

30:42

to be. It's more like

30:46

a sort of bank heist type tunnel where to

30:49

get into the main building, they've started from the

30:51

building next door and they've been gradually just trying

30:53

to knock through the basement wall to

30:55

get... But why? What are they trying

30:57

to get? So yeah, I just

30:59

didn't know if it was a weird loop, like

31:01

a weird domicile loophole thing or something. Jesse's

31:04

guest so far is the most compelling one. Do you

31:06

know Matt? Why did they do it? Okay,

31:08

so I'm going by this thread. So

31:11

it says, since the Revvie's passing, 770 has been a

31:14

disputed territory. There are many

31:16

details in this and there's some characters in

31:18

this saga and I haven't cared enough to

31:20

really find out about most of them. However,

31:22

who controls the synagogue has practical and emotional

31:24

and religious significance. The practical part being things

31:26

like, do we proclaim the

31:28

Revvie to be the Messiah during and after

31:30

prayers? So this

31:33

post says, in short, the legal and official ownership

31:36

of the building is one group, but they have

31:38

not been able over the years, over years of uneasy

31:40

truce to

31:43

deal with a radical...

31:45

I'm just going to say people because

31:47

there's a Yiddish word I can't pronounce clearly, who

31:49

claim the turf. So this

31:51

radical group, mostly

31:54

Israelis and are known as S'vatim after

31:56

the city of Safed where they have

31:58

a larger Shiva. They're not above a

32:00

bit of violence and defending that 770 turf. Do

32:05

you know how passionate people are about 770 by

32:07

the way? 770

32:09

is the address of the place in Crown Heights. Have

32:12

you guys ever driven down the main

32:14

Jew boulevard on Pico and seen the

32:16

big krabat center? You might not

32:18

even notice, but if there's an odd building that looks a little

32:20

out of that. They shouldn't have

32:22

named it that by the way. Yeah, Jew boulevard.

32:24

Yeah, it seems like that's going to inspire some

32:26

enthusiasm. Well, it was already named that. That was

32:29

just coincidence. Well, actually, that's interesting. You say that.

32:31

Yeah, that's interesting. You

32:33

say that because I when I first moved to

32:36

LA, I looked on the map and I saw

32:38

where all the unhoused people live was called skid

32:40

row on the map and I go, Oh, this

32:42

must be where the term skid row comes from.

32:44

And I looked it up and it's not. It

32:46

comes from like Seattle. So they just called it

32:48

that after the homeless people like

32:51

they looked at an unhoused population and thought,

32:53

okay, let's call that shantytown. I think that

32:55

that that kind of blew my mind. But

32:58

wait, so it's a way

33:00

there are there this apologies

33:03

to anyone listening with their children, but there

33:05

are several there are multiple streets in London

33:07

and some other cities around the UK that

33:09

are now called things like Great Plain, which

33:13

is a charming contraction and rewriting because it

33:15

was originally the sex district

33:18

and it was originally called Grope

33:20

Cunts Lane. Right.

33:25

Which I don't think they should have. That's the

33:27

reason they renamed it you Boulevard because it was

33:29

also called Grope Cunt Lane and that couldn't do.

33:32

So anyway, if you drive down if you

33:34

drive down if you drive down 770, if you drive

33:36

down to

33:39

Boulevard in Los Angeles, you will see a

33:42

building which is the headquarters, which is an

33:44

exact brick for brick

33:46

recreation of 770 in Crown Heights.

33:49

And there's also an exact recreation of

33:51

770 built in Jerusalem. They

33:54

care about this building that much.

33:58

So so that's a very. LA

34:00

thing though to just be like that's not the

34:02

real Millennium Falcon. Yeah That's

34:05

like a backup yeah, they need a 770 recreation

34:07

is just like some wood flats It looks exactly

34:09

the same from the front and then behind it

34:11

right Right so

34:13

this put this thread says that the

34:16

S is

34:28

a ritual bath 770

34:30

is too small for the massive number of

34:33

people who wish to pray there study there etc

34:35

Something that more and more has said them have been

34:37

seeking a proper solution to for years However a bunch

34:39

bunch of teenagers breaking down walls in your

34:42

free time you be the judge So in any in any case the

34:44

actual ownership of 770 called in the cement trucks

34:46

to repair the damp this damage and stop progress on the

34:50

Expansion the Svetym responded territorially the police became

34:52

involved and that's how you have videos of

34:54

yeshiva's security Students escaping

34:56

arrest through sewer grades, so they were trying to

34:58

expand 770 by Knocking

35:04

down the wall through an a room that was once the

35:07

amikva that was attached to the synagogue in the building next

35:09

to 770 So

35:11

anyway my circumcision was yeah Yeah,

35:15

oh you want me to tell you about that. I'll tell you about that,

35:17

but then In my dad

35:19

sect of acidic Judaism the city of the city of the city of the city of

35:22

the city Judaism

35:25

the the the circumcision ceremony takes place in

35:27

a very ritualized way. It's not a

35:29

doctor doing it and it

35:32

you basically get put on a silver

35:34

platter and you're surrounded by like garlic

35:37

and other weird like garlands and paraded

35:39

around a room on a silver platter like

35:41

kind of like Temple of doom style like

35:44

you're about to be the main course so

35:46

that was in the garlic to make sure

35:48

it's there's no vampires to make sure that's

35:50

right, yeah You're

35:52

a baby vampire Yeah

35:56

Okay very interesting

35:58

I will detect linked to in that

36:00

thread. So you can see, it's in

36:04

your text right now, but you can see the, you

36:06

can see where the expansion is and where the tunnel

36:08

was. What,

36:10

Moshe, what other subcultures

36:13

are we talking about? Because so far these

36:15

are subcultures that were not your

36:17

choice. Not that you wouldn't make that choice.

36:19

Like you were born into. But I'm saying

36:22

you were born into these subcultures. No, exactly.

36:24

And in fact, these two subcultures,

36:26

and by the way, the book itself, it

36:29

goes through it's

36:31

not just memoir. It's like a comedic history

36:33

of each of these worlds and literally starts

36:35

at the beginning of the world and goes

36:38

until I enter that universe. And then it

36:40

becomes more like traditional memoir. So it's like

36:42

one part comedic history and one part memoir

36:44

of my time in these worlds. And I

36:47

kind of, yeah, I separate them out just

36:49

like you guys have. There are two subcultures

36:52

that you wouldn't even really call

36:54

them necessarily classic subcultures, which are,

36:56

of course, deafness. And

37:00

Hasidic Judaism. By the time

37:02

I subculture within Judaism, it is like

37:04

a very specific thing, rather than just

37:06

the sort of general faith. But

37:08

I do agree with you. Yeah. No,

37:11

but that's totally fair. Like, in

37:13

fact, Hasidic Judaism, when

37:15

it first appeared in

37:18

the Jewish landscape was extremely unpopular.

37:20

Nobody wanted anything to do with

37:22

it. They were all called heretics.

37:24

And the main body of the

37:26

Jewish community tried to excommunicate the

37:28

Hasidic Jews because they were just

37:30

too fucking weird. They danced too

37:32

much. They dressed too strangely. And

37:35

all the mainstream Jewish people, and this is in like

37:37

the 1700s, I think, or maybe

37:39

even much earlier than that. I could be wrong about that. They

37:42

just wanted nothing to

37:45

do with Hasidic Jews, but they just stuck

37:47

around long enough to become mainstream themselves and

37:49

as hardcore as the people that wanted

37:51

to excommunicate them in the first place. So

37:55

all of these kind of all these world, these

37:57

two worlds that I was born into made me

38:00

feel this kind of bizarre

38:02

feeling of never quite fitting in.

38:05

My life, it was not a

38:07

Hasidic upbringing. My life was I

38:09

was nine months a year in

38:11

Oakland, California with my deaf mother, a

38:14

totally secular kid in public schools,

38:16

completely non-religious in really any way

38:19

at all. And then on my

38:21

summer vacations, I would

38:23

fly back to the old country

38:25

to Brooklyn and literally cosplay as

38:27

a Hasidic Jew for two months

38:29

a year. So that was my

38:31

summer vacation. And all that back

38:33

and forth and sort of split

38:35

identity created a feeling

38:38

of like incredible feeling

38:41

like I never fit in, which is what

38:43

made getting high and getting drunk

38:45

with the kids, the bad kids at the

38:47

back of the school feel so incredibly medicinal,

38:50

which is who I fell in with, which

38:52

is what led me to going to rehab

38:54

three times by the time I turned 16,

38:56

which is the subject of my first book,

38:59

Casher and the Rye. And when I finally

39:01

got sober at 15, almost 16 years old,

39:04

I was like this 16 year old kid who needed

39:06

to recreate a social life. And

39:09

the way that I did that, the

39:11

first big choice that I made other than going to

39:13

12 step groups in AA, which is what the

39:15

first chapter of the book is about, it's all

39:17

about the history of Alcoholics Anonymous and

39:20

Young People's AA and the Just Say No campaign

39:22

and the rehab culture that led a whole

39:24

generation of people about my age to get sent

39:27

to rehab when they were 12, 13, 14,

39:29

15 years old. Yeah, I did that for a long

39:31

time. But then

39:33

I found when I was about a year

39:35

sober, I found I

39:38

saw a flyer on a pole saying

39:40

that there was a big rave

39:43

coming to town, Cyberfest 95. And

39:45

I bought a ticket to that rave. And

39:47

I walked in and I changed my

39:49

life once again and fell in with

39:52

that. I could

39:54

keep going on me to tell you the other subcultures

39:56

we could go. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'll do the

39:58

best version. You're already so But you're going

40:00

to raves now you stayed sober for the rave

40:04

Call I in fact not only did I stay

40:06

sober I went to an NA

40:08

meeting across the street from that first rave and

40:11

Told a bunch of like middle-aged drug addicts

40:13

like you know the the beauty of this

40:15

program is it's allowed me the freedom To

40:17

go to that you see that guy

40:19

with the cat in the hat hat and the right

40:21

right size is too big for me I

40:23

get those were huge. Yeah. Yeah, they were literally huge

40:26

and I wore them. I wore them well And

40:29

I fell in I fell into the rave

40:31

world and we can go back and talk about any of

40:33

these worlds you want or we Can go through some stuff,

40:35

but I fell into the rave world so hard that

40:38

I it became my my full identity

40:40

It was this like you know I

40:42

came from such like chaotic background like

40:45

with disabled parents and identity crisis And

40:47

then drug addiction and then crime and

40:50

arrest and violence and when I walked

40:52

into that first rave and

40:54

met that culture it was such

40:56

a I don't know if you guys have been to raves,

40:59

but especially in San Francisco It

41:01

was such a soft and welcoming and warm

41:03

kind of hippie like all the things that

41:05

people roll their eyes About raves

41:07

about was the thing that I needed more than

41:09

anything in the world It's like I was getting

41:11

I was getting healthy warm

41:14

that warm chemical brothers embrace Come

41:22

on. I'm no stranger to a Jim Marra quay hat By

41:28

the way I almost immediately after the

41:30

first party I was like kind of a

41:32

like wannabe gangster that was my thing when

41:34

I when I Got was in

41:36

rehab and when I first got sober. I

41:39

was like you know speaking about the identity

41:41

crisis I didn't just think I was deaf

41:43

and Hasidic. I also definitely was African-American and

41:46

and After

41:48

that first rave I literally like went to

41:50

the store bought a bunch of

41:53

goofy ass like jinko pants Like

41:55

bleach my hair blonde put barrettes in it

41:57

sprinkle glitter my hair and and

42:00

became a completely new human being,

42:02

like almost overnight. And

42:05

the thing I'm most ashamed about,

42:07

slash most proud about in terms

42:10

of accessories, was in

42:12

the 90s people would suck on

42:14

pacifiers at raves, because when

42:16

you take Molly, you like grind your teeth. And

42:18

so people would suck on pacifiers to discourage

42:21

grinding your teeth into little rave nubs. And

42:24

I bought a pacifier, but you'll have

42:26

to remember I was clean and sober.

42:28

So I didn't do it to avoid

42:30

grinding my teeth. I did it because

42:32

they looked so fucking cool. Yeah.

42:36

Yeah, well, I mean, you staying sober is how you

42:38

can afford those jinkos. What'd you hit at a Gatsby?

42:40

Gatsby? Or what? Were you

42:42

doing Gatsby? Ross, baby. It's all about Ross. What?

42:44

Okay, because I remember I had

42:47

like a pair of jinko, but

42:49

I, which is the

42:51

singular. It's like Lego, right?

42:53

Yeah, it's like Lego. Yeah, I had several jinko. You

42:56

had one jinko that you'd put on and then a regular size

42:58

pant leg on the other? No, I

43:01

mean, cause you could get those, like you

43:03

could get like utility at Target, like the

43:05

knockoff jinko. And. That's

43:07

funny because jinko is a knockoff of kick wear.

43:09

So we're really down the ladder. Oh,

43:11

yes. Yes. It

43:13

is, yes. Kick wear were the expensive ones for

43:15

the real rich raver kids. Yeah,

43:19

I'm constantly like finding out. I mean,

43:22

I watched a lot of Antiques Roadshow and

43:26

I'm constantly finding out the

43:28

stuff that I thought was like the nicest

43:30

thing you could get is nowhere close. Does

43:33

that make sense? Like, when I grew

43:35

up, like the best watch you could get was like

43:37

a Rolex, like everyone knows about it. Like, oh man,

43:39

if I had like Rolex money, but it's like, as

43:42

far as like rich people watches go, it's

43:44

like in the bottom 1% of. Is

43:48

it really? I mean, they're like $50,000. Yeah,

43:51

but that's nothing. You get like a

43:53

Philippe Patek or whatever, you know. I

43:56

have one of those. Two million bucks on a watch.

43:59

But it's like. You

44:02

know when you're when you're growing up and you're

44:04

like Lamborghini I need a Lamborghini, but it's like

44:06

that's not even That's

44:08

that's like a poor person's rich thing.

44:11

Does that make sense? Yeah, like

44:13

you're saying you're saying the jinko is

44:15

the Lamborghini It

44:17

was like I didn't know there was a nicer

44:20

absurd pant Yeah

44:25

What trauma we've been through yeah,

44:28

okay, okay, I'll keep pushing So

44:31

I went to raves I became a rave promoter. I

44:33

started throwing my own parties in the 90s I

44:35

became a DJ with some sort of

44:38

recognition and then like hardware sets. What

44:40

were you doing? You have a computer going? How was

44:42

your setup? No the hardware said

44:44

it wasn't a hardware sets like

44:46

you have like a 909 and a 303 Oh

44:51

No, I wouldn't I was a

44:53

vinyl DJ because okay got it we had

44:55

back then and I became a

44:57

DJ And then I became an ecstasy dealer.

45:00

So now I'm a clean and sober rave

45:02

promoting DJ drug dealer and

45:06

And at about at about a

45:08

year in or two years into raving. I

45:12

Heard about a big rave that was happening in

45:14

the desert Somebody said

45:16

oh, yeah, there's a rave in the desert. It's

45:18

called Burning Man. And so I drove

45:20

out to Burning Man for the first

45:22

time in 1996 when I was I think 16 or 17 years old

45:24

and This

45:28

last year I became

45:30

it was my 24th time

45:33

at going to Burning Man I

45:35

started working at Burning Man and helping to put the

45:37

festival on And

45:40

and then eventually one time a year you can

45:42

fuck other guys waves That's

45:44

right No, there's no

45:46

there's no cucking like watching the Burning Man

45:48

fuck your wife The

45:51

effigy himself you ever seen your wife get dicked

45:53

by an effigy man 60-foot

45:57

flammable effigy Man,

46:00

I've never been so hard. And

46:03

then eventually I started doing stand-up comedy

46:05

and that

46:07

brings us to today. So that's all of

46:09

them. That's all six of the worlds that

46:11

I describe and go through in this

46:13

book. Wow. Do

46:16

you feel like this is, I'm

46:20

guessing most of your friends are aware of

46:23

most of all of these, but is this sort of an outing?

46:26

The Burning Man thing, I think,

46:29

correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't talk about it

46:31

a ton in the comedy part of your life or

46:34

maybe that's changed. No, I think that's right.

46:36

Like, you look at these worlds separate and is

46:39

there any like worry or just

46:41

like, oh, this will be interesting now that everybody knows about

46:44

all these other parts of me. No,

46:46

I think that's right. I've

46:48

definitely been a person for whom

46:50

compartmentalization was a part of my

46:52

life. I would

46:54

say I'm more

46:58

in writing this book, realize that like

47:00

all of these worlds that feel totally

47:02

disparate, raves and Burning Man

47:04

and stand-up and Judaism and

47:07

spent ASL and deafness

47:10

and I became a sign language interpreter for 15

47:12

years and I write about my experiences in that

47:14

world too. They don't feel like they go together.

47:16

And the obvious conclusion is that like I'm the

47:19

connective tissue that brings all these things together. But

47:22

also having written this book, it's

47:24

really interesting to see that like I wouldn't

47:27

say they go together, but in

47:29

terms of what they've offered to

47:31

my life, like they are not

47:33

as diametrically opposed as

47:36

they seem. They've all given me this

47:38

kind of consciousness and understanding that first

47:40

of all, they're all people from outside

47:42

the margins of society that are like

47:44

struggling in one way or another to

47:46

change the world and to survive. And

47:49

I like that. Those are the kinds of people

47:51

that I like. I like people that are weird.

47:53

I like people that are outside the lines. I

47:56

like small groups that like raise the

47:58

middle finger to anybody. that

48:00

tells them they don't belong and there

48:03

is a lot of connective tissue that

48:06

connects these worlds together and that's really what the

48:08

book's about. And just to be clear, raising the

48:10

middle finger, what letter is that signing? That,

48:13

by the way, is perfect

48:16

American Sign Language for fuck you. Just

48:18

so you know, middle

48:21

finger up doesn't have a different meaning. That's

48:23

a universal right there. Is

48:26

that universal in other countries sign language as well?

48:29

Because I remember hearing – I didn't realise until

48:31

having a chat with you a few years ago

48:33

that how completely different

48:35

British Sign Language is from American Sign Language.

48:37

Like it's a whole different language group. Well,

48:40

throwing in all those extra U's alone is going

48:42

to be a nightmare. Right. And

48:44

all that Cockney rhyme slang is very difficult

48:47

in British Sign Language. Yes. In

48:49

fact, French Sign

48:51

Language is much more intelligible apparently

48:53

to an American Sign Language user

48:55

than is British Sign Language because

48:57

American Sign Language comes directly from

48:59

the French Sign Language language school.

49:03

There was a guy named Laurent Clerc that was almost

49:06

literally purchased from the

49:08

Institute for the

49:11

Deaf in Paris and exported to

49:13

America to create American Sign Language.

49:16

So what you have when you look at American

49:19

Sign Language is a kind of

49:21

bouillabaisse of French Sign Language

49:23

and all of the kind of native

49:26

signs that he discovered once he landed in America,

49:28

you know, what the communities had come up with

49:31

on their own. And

49:33

interestingly, there was an incredibly

49:35

large deaf community on Martha's Vineyard

49:37

for many years. There

49:40

was something like 25% of the people

49:42

on Martha's Vineyard before it became like

49:44

a weird vacation destination for Kennedys to

49:46

fuck their mistresses. It used to be

49:48

a really

49:50

high concentration of deaf people. And so everybody

49:53

on Martha's Vineyard knew sign language because everybody

49:55

was either deaf themselves or was related to

49:57

or married to someone who was deaf. community

50:00

spoke sign and they took that sign

50:02

system and French sign language and a

50:04

little bit of the pleans Indian sign

50:06

language. It's called PISL which is like

50:08

not from deaf people but in fact

50:11

from the Native American tribes that had

50:13

created you know that kind of like

50:15

cowboys and Indians movie thing you might see

50:18

where a Native American is like doing signals

50:20

to each other. Have you seen that before?

50:23

To be able to attack and quiet or something? Yes

50:25

exactly. But in fact the reason that they

50:27

created that system was that in

50:30

a Native American pre-United

50:32

States Native American world

50:34

all these tribes were

50:38

linguistically different from one another. So they were right

50:40

next to each other but a lot of them

50:42

couldn't communicate with one another. And

50:44

so to create like a tribal trade language

50:46

they created a kind of universal sign system

50:49

that would allow you know a Sioux to communicate

50:51

with a Lakota

50:53

or whatever those are both Sioux whatever it

50:55

is you know these two different tribes and

50:58

so clerk took French sign language this Martha's

51:00

Vineyard sign language, pleans Indian sign language

51:02

and kind of mashed it all together

51:04

and created American sign language and the

51:06

British sign system has a completely different

51:08

linguistic journey and that's why I do

51:11

not understand British people both when they

51:13

speak regular spoken English and when they

51:15

do sign. Did

51:18

American sign language become the world

51:20

dominating language? I'm not to say

51:22

that this is good. The

51:25

way that English you know if you go to any

51:27

touristy country that you can assume you probably don't have

51:29

to learn their language they're going to have learned some

51:31

English to be able to have that's like. That

51:35

is a great question and one that I've never

51:37

been asked. Usually people ask me if sign language

51:39

is universal and

51:41

it like blows their minds to think that

51:43

why didn't they just create a universal sign

51:45

language as if it's like why

51:47

didn't we create a universal spoken language the same

51:49

reason they were far away. There

51:52

is an Esperanto no ASL

51:56

is not the lingua franca is that what it's called that

51:58

is what it's called right. That's another. I

52:00

wasn't sure what that meant. I think it is. I

52:02

think so. That English has become in

52:04

the world. But

52:06

that literally means French. French,

52:09

right. Confusingly. English

52:12

is not the French language that English is. But

52:16

there is a kind of Esperanto

52:18

of sign language that people have

52:20

been trying to get off the

52:22

ground. And it is about as

52:25

successful as Esperanto. Right, right. So

52:27

it's hard to travel as a deaf person. By the

52:29

way, correction. No. Wait,

52:32

I'm now worried that I actually have

52:34

given misinformation. The

52:37

term is taken from the Mediterranean lingua franca,

52:39

which is a romance-based pidgin language

52:41

used by traders in the Mediterranean

52:43

basis. Basin rather. So

52:46

it's a generic Romance language. It's

52:53

Proto-Esperanto. Yeah. Yeah.

52:57

What was your question? I thought it was a good one, but

53:00

I've lost it. Oh, you were starting to

53:02

say something like, but when you're traveling

53:04

there is... Oh, it's

53:06

not that difficult actually. Because

53:08

while sign systems are not

53:11

universal, what is universal is

53:13

the experience of the deaf

53:16

at becoming masters of figuring

53:18

out a way to have

53:20

themselves understood. And

53:23

so when two deaf people who

53:25

do not share a common language find each

53:27

other internationally, I've seen it happen with

53:29

my mother, they are able

53:31

to communicate on a level that if

53:34

you went to China and

53:36

met a Chinese speaker that didn't know any

53:38

English would not have. There is

53:40

an ability for them to find ways to

53:43

understand each other using, I would

53:45

say, almost

53:47

meta-language because they are used to

53:50

that kind of communication that's really

53:52

impressive and amazing to watch. Wow.

53:56

I can't picture what that entails, but I believe

53:58

you. Well they're used

54:00

to using gesture to make

54:02

themselves understood and when you have two

54:04

masters of gesture even though they don't

54:06

share an actual language they do share

54:08

the experience of making themselves understood through

54:10

gesture and hand signals and they have

54:12

an almost an acuity with their eyes

54:14

and their ability to process language through

54:16

their eyes that you just don't have

54:18

and I don't have it either to

54:20

be frank. I mean I bet I'd

54:22

be better at it than you would

54:24

Andy. Jesse, I think you'd

54:27

nail it. Jesse would

54:29

really nail it. It would be no problem for

54:31

him. But I still... What do you mean? No,

54:33

I'm joking. That was a joke. That was

54:35

a riff on a comedy podcast guys. Okay,

54:38

no I was just imagining... I'm

54:41

trying to think... I'm just trying to imagine more connective

54:43

tissue. Sorry, that's where I was off in my... I

54:46

was like okay. Judaism

54:48

and the deaf community, lot

54:51

of hand gestures but you

54:53

have a pacifier in. You're wearing a

54:55

pacifier. So there's no lip reading. It's

54:58

just... Oh that's fair. I'm

55:00

trying to imagine what

55:04

you were accidentally rebelling against as a

55:06

16 year old getting in the rave

55:08

community because it's like okay

55:11

this is very loud music and

55:14

everyone has pacifiers. Lot

55:16

of glow sticks happening in the hands. There's

55:18

not much of a signability at

55:20

a rave. What's the point? If you have two

55:23

people who are fluent in sign language, isn't that

55:25

kind of perfect in a loud like club setting?

55:29

And not only that Matt, that's a great

55:31

point. That's a great point but not only

55:33

that, deaf people, I am not kidding, of

55:35

all the music scenes in the world, the

55:37

one they love the most is definitely the

55:39

electronic music. I would assume. That would be

55:41

like heavy... You feel the bass,

55:44

you feel the rhythmic... And simple. Heavy

55:47

and simple rhythms too. Just like forward

55:49

to the floor disco beats, they can

55:51

feel that very simply as opposed to

55:53

going to see like Ginger Baker

55:56

and Cream with a percussion that they don't

55:58

quite understand because they can't hear it. Right,

56:01

right. Yeah, no that makes sense to

56:04

me. But I

56:06

will say this Jesse, when I started

56:08

DJing, I had a massive advantage as

56:11

a 16 year old bedroom DJ having

56:13

deaf parents because I could absolutely fucking

56:16

flare my sound system as I learned

56:18

how the DJ and my mother never

56:20

said a single word. Wow,

56:23

very interesting. Well

56:26

it is very interesting and that is the whole

56:29

thing written about it. No,

56:31

I'm such a music gear head. I'm like how much

56:33

different... I'm

56:37

like that's interesting to not

56:39

have to worry about volume like that at

56:41

3am or whatever. That's a unique

56:43

advantage. I'm not trying

56:45

to spin it like it's

56:47

some big... I'm not saying like worth

56:50

it. Sorry you felt alienated, worth it though. That's

56:52

not what I'm saying. No it wasn't worth it.

56:55

One of the weird things about deaf people

56:57

that people don't know and don't understand is

56:59

like if you guys had kids and they

57:01

were deaf you'd probably think oh no my

57:04

kid is deaf. But when

57:06

deaf people have kids and they're deaf they're lighting

57:08

cigars and high fiving. If there's

57:10

one thing about the deaf community that is pretty

57:13

close to universally true, while the deaf

57:15

are frustrated by the inability of hearing

57:18

people to communicate with them and the frustrations

57:21

and barriers they have to leap over in order

57:23

to be understood and interact equally in society. I've

57:25

never met a deaf person that was like I

57:27

wish I was hearing except maybe my dad. But

57:30

every other deaf person I've ever known is fiercely,

57:33

fiercely proud of being deaf and wouldn't have it

57:35

any other way. Right, no

57:37

for sure. Were your parents born deaf? They

57:41

were, yeah both of my parents were. Well

57:43

yeah both of my parents were born deaf. I used to think

57:45

that that wasn't true. I used to

57:47

think that my mom got sick when she was young

57:49

and then I had a 23andMe

57:52

done and I carry a dormant gene

57:54

for deafness and I confronted my mom

57:56

about it, screamed at her, she started

57:58

crying and admitting. this isn't true,

58:00

but we found out that actually she had

58:03

a genetic predisposition to deafness as well. Okay.

58:07

Has that come into play with, have you considered,

58:09

I mean it's a totally different issue, but like

58:11

your own children, things like that? Or

58:13

should you have them? When

58:18

I have, I do have them, I

58:20

have one. What? I'm

58:22

so sorry, congrats, I'm sorry. I know

58:25

nothing. I know nothing. I didn't know

58:27

you guys, you know, congrats man. Thanks.

58:31

It's been, she's six. And

58:35

when we were pregnant with her and I got

58:37

those DNA results back, I had like an hour

58:39

long existential crisis. Like, wow, I might

58:41

have a deaf kid. What will that be? And

58:43

then I'm one of the most ready

58:46

for that experience people on earth.

58:48

And, but emotionally I just didn't,

58:51

I never thought of it as a possibility because

58:53

my brother's hearing and I'm hearing, and I did

58:56

play this whole tape out where I had this

58:58

whole emotional journey about like what it would be

59:00

to have deaf kids and teach them sign and

59:02

them having to deal with the same frustrations that

59:05

my mother has had to deal with and making

59:07

sure there was a positive environment both linguistically and

59:09

just supporting my child and

59:11

their deafness. And then I called my stepfather

59:13

who's a scientist and he was like, no, you both have

59:15

to be curious of the gene for this to have any

59:18

possibility. Stand down anxiety, stand

59:20

down. So my child hears and does not

59:22

sign and that's a great frustration. Wow.

59:26

Oh yeah, because then like communicating

59:28

with your mum

59:30

is an issue. One

59:34

of my great failures as a parent, one of many,

59:36

my child also smokes. Yeah,

59:42

every, well, working those minds are hard, man.

59:45

Yeah, no, no, young people,

59:47

man. I know,

59:49

I know. Well I feel awkward that I had.

59:51

It's probably gonna get her on a jewel. Yeah,

59:53

I feel, yeah. Definitely six

59:55

years ago I was going through some stuff, but I feel bad that

59:57

I missed it. No, you know what?

1:00:00

Jesse, you and I talked about German Shepherds

1:00:02

over the pandemic while I had a child and you

1:00:04

didn't realize it and it was very helpful. And guess

1:00:07

what I got lying on my floor right now? A

1:00:11

Golden Doodle? An

1:00:14

Epidemic of Burning Man and a bunch of

1:00:17

death prisoners. No, I got it. I have

1:00:19

a German Shepherd here. So you've been very

1:00:21

you've helped me a great deal. Jesse feel

1:00:23

no. Yes. Yes. They're yeah, they're

1:00:25

they're wonderful. I got one last

1:00:28

one last death question before because

1:00:32

you are my go-to person. If I well one

1:00:34

of a couple of go-to people if I have questions about

1:00:36

deafness that I want to take brains out. But I remember

1:00:38

when Coda came out seeing a couple

1:00:40

of people who like

1:00:43

a couple of deaf people saying that Troy Cotser is

1:00:45

that he pronounced his last name? The

1:00:48

male is in it was

1:00:50

a really beautiful signer. So

1:00:52

I presume that sort of analogous to being you

1:00:55

know, an actor having a really great

1:00:58

speaking voice. But like what is what

1:01:00

does that mean? Is that he'd say that someone's a beautiful

1:01:02

signer? That's a

1:01:05

great question. You

1:01:07

know, there's a part in the book where

1:01:09

I describe the comparison

1:01:13

literally ranking English

1:01:16

versus American Sign Language. What's

1:01:19

better right? And if you put them up

1:01:21

against one another there

1:01:24

there are advantages to English and every

1:01:27

spoken language and advantages to sign language.

1:01:29

English has a gigantic advantage over sign

1:01:31

language in terms of vocabulary. There's something

1:01:33

like I don't know 300,000 words or

1:01:36

something in English and sign

1:01:38

language has something like between 10,000 and 60,000

1:01:40

unique signs for specific words, right? So

1:01:46

that's a 500% no, which is weird. I

1:01:50

feel like they really over get it on the snow.

1:01:55

Well, actually because sign language borrowed

1:01:57

from the Plains Indian Sign

1:01:59

Language. language in sign, there's over 300 ways

1:02:01

to say never trust the white man. So

1:02:07

that's a giant advantage for English and

1:02:09

any spoken language. Vocabulary doesn't even

1:02:11

compare. Spoken language beats

1:02:14

the sign language down easy. But

1:02:17

what sign language has a massive advantage on

1:02:20

spoken language and English in particular

1:02:22

is the ability to use the

1:02:24

language in ways that don't adhere

1:02:27

to rules. They

1:02:29

have rules, but you can

1:02:31

go off in a way that you

1:02:33

never could with spoken language. You

1:02:36

can go off the vocabulary page to

1:02:38

such a degree that you can tell

1:02:40

an entire story and

1:02:44

never use a single

1:02:48

vocabulary word using

1:02:50

what are called classifiers, which

1:02:52

is essentially making up

1:02:55

signs that are completely intelligible and

1:02:57

completely understandable to an American Sign

1:02:59

Language user, and I would assume

1:03:01

every other sign system user, but

1:03:03

you're not using vocabulary words. You're

1:03:05

almost as if painting a picture in

1:03:07

the air. In the

1:03:10

book, I describe a

1:03:13

teacher saying the sentence in

1:03:18

a lone village, a

1:03:21

group of anarchists was surrounded by

1:03:23

the government forces who rushed in

1:03:25

and destroyed them. Now

1:03:28

in spoken language, there's only

1:03:30

so many ways you can say that.

1:03:33

You have to use the words in a lone

1:03:35

village, a group of ants. You have to use

1:03:37

some combination of those words. You

1:03:39

can use synonyms or metaphors to an

1:03:41

extent, but yes. But

1:03:44

yeah, you're still going to come back to you. You're

1:03:48

bound by the rules of spoken language. But

1:03:50

in sign language, I can show you,

1:03:52

and this would not be like somebody, a deaf

1:03:55

person, going, what are you talking about? I could

1:03:57

show you in, I could sign

1:03:59

maybe. three words but paint a picture

1:04:01

showing the village with my hands. I

1:04:04

use the word village and I show you... Hippies,

1:04:08

fire, yeah. Yeah,

1:04:11

exactly. Burning Man, effigy, he

1:04:14

fucks your wife. I

1:04:18

could show you the village, I can

1:04:20

show you with my fingers all of

1:04:22

the government forces lined up by literally

1:04:24

just showing them in space. I can

1:04:26

show those forces running in, I can

1:04:28

show the little band of anarchists in

1:04:30

the middle of the field looking

1:04:32

scared, I show with my facial expressions

1:04:34

their fear and then I go toggle

1:04:36

over to the government forces and I

1:04:38

show the fierceness in their faces and

1:04:40

then my fingers show them running in and

1:04:43

then I go back to the anarchists and

1:04:45

more fear and then I sign the word

1:04:47

destroy and I've maybe used five words but

1:04:49

I've said, told the exact story of what

1:04:51

happened to those. Actually, how do we know

1:04:54

their anarchists? It's the

1:04:56

anarchist part. Well

1:04:58

it's funny that you say that because in

1:05:00

the book I actually, that is the word

1:05:03

that I

1:05:05

use to prove the point of how fluid

1:05:07

sign language can be. There is no sign

1:05:10

for anarchy in sign language and so if

1:05:12

I sat down as a sign language interpreter

1:05:14

and there was a deaf student who was

1:05:16

hearing a lecture on anarchy,

1:05:19

there's another way in which sign language

1:05:21

is superior to spoken language because there's

1:05:23

no vocabulary word for anarchists, I would

1:05:25

engage in a negotiation with the deaf

1:05:27

student. I would say, I would spell

1:05:29

the word, I would say using

1:05:31

the word anarchy and

1:05:33

I would offer a suggestion. Okay, he's going

1:05:35

to be saying anarchy a lot. What do

1:05:37

you think if I do

1:05:39

like metal horns and flick my tongue back

1:05:41

and forth like I'm eating air pussy and

1:05:43

the person would say, no, I don't really

1:05:45

like that. That seems a little inappropriate and

1:05:47

immature. What if you put your A in

1:05:49

the air but you match

1:05:52

it to the sign for revolution which is a fist

1:05:54

in the air, kind of a black

1:05:56

power fist if you can picture that but you make it

1:05:58

into an A instead of a fist, right? and

1:06:00

you would say, that's the sign

1:06:02

for anarchy for the next hour, right? So

1:06:05

now I've got my sign established for anarchy

1:06:07

and we have agreed that that's what's going

1:06:09

to be anarchy. So when I describe the

1:06:12

anarchist, I would use that sign, but that's

1:06:14

the only thing I'd have to say. Anarchists,

1:06:16

and then from then on, you know who

1:06:18

they are and I can literally almost, it's

1:06:21

almost a Brian Regan-esque act out to describe

1:06:23

what it is that's happening in that village.

1:06:25

But then you get the negotiation, so then

1:06:27

the student thinks that these people are eating

1:06:30

air pussy in the village. The

1:06:35

government agent ate a bunch of pussy and...

1:06:38

Yup, went to Burning Man. Right.

1:06:41

But Matt, to answer your question, a

1:06:44

beautiful signer is

1:06:46

someone who, yes, in a way,

1:06:49

somebody with a beautiful, I wouldn't say speaking

1:06:51

voice, I would say a beautiful

1:06:53

way with words, a

1:06:55

good public speaker, and someone

1:06:58

who does sign crisp and beautifully,

1:07:00

but also signs creatively and artistically

1:07:02

and uses that flexibility that American

1:07:04

Sign Language and other sign systems

1:07:07

have to create a

1:07:09

beautiful kind of landscape of language, which

1:07:11

is a huge advantage that sign systems

1:07:14

have over spoken. So that's great. So

1:07:16

it almost plays into also just being

1:07:18

a really great actor and

1:07:20

conveying the scene that he's presenting. Well,

1:07:24

in fact, deaf people, I would say,

1:07:26

have an advantage in

1:07:28

terms of certainly silent film style

1:07:31

acting because a big part of

1:07:34

sign language, just literally

1:07:36

when you're communicating, is using

1:07:38

big expressive facial expressions and

1:07:41

gestures in order to

1:07:43

tell a story and to be understood.

1:07:45

So much so that my father, who

1:07:48

was a performance artist and modern art

1:07:50

abstract impressionist painter and

1:07:52

filmmaker before he became an ultra-orthodox Jew,

1:07:55

was spotted on the street by

1:07:57

Marcel Marceau, according to family legend.

1:08:00

Marcel Marceau, the world's most famous mime, tried

1:08:02

to take my dad on the road as

1:08:04

like a mime intern. I could have had

1:08:06

a very different life if my father had

1:08:08

become the other most famous mime on earth.

1:08:11

Wow. Wow.

1:08:14

I mean, but he just swapped out the comedy world for the mime world

1:08:16

and the rest would have been the same. Yeah,

1:08:18

exactly. Exactly. Then he got himself

1:08:21

into the different invisible box of

1:08:23

religion. And folks... No,

1:08:27

in that mime performance, you're

1:08:30

feeling on the wall and then you find a tunnel and

1:08:32

you run into it. Right. Folks.

1:08:37

Man, well, do we have... What

1:08:40

do we have going on here? What are we doing? I don't

1:08:42

know. Do we do a story? I think we've learned

1:08:44

a lot. We could also do just a bonus episode

1:08:46

with an actual science story. Up to you guys. What

1:08:48

do you feel like? I

1:08:51

think we could cram one in there. We could cram

1:08:53

one in there. Not everyone's on the Patreon and they

1:08:55

should be. That's

1:08:57

reason a quick story though. Let's squeeze one in.

1:08:59

Was this... Who sent this one? Well, let

1:09:02

me say to the listeners out

1:09:04

there that all these stories and more are

1:09:06

available for pre-order or post-order, depending on when

1:09:08

this story comes out. It's Random House, Subculture

1:09:10

Vulture. It's on every bookseller you could possibly

1:09:12

find. Go to motioncaster.com and you can get

1:09:14

this book. Get it. I am very proud

1:09:16

of that. I love

1:09:18

the first book. It was a very, very

1:09:21

enjoyable read. So I have no

1:09:23

doubt this new one is going to be excellent. Well,

1:09:26

you're in it, Matt. You're in it. Oh

1:09:29

yeah. I think you... Did you mention the alien

1:09:31

story? One

1:09:34

of Matt's Burning Man stories

1:09:36

with permission was included.

1:09:38

That's right. I forgot about that. And so

1:09:40

the story of Matt's

1:09:43

funniest moment at Burning Man has been

1:09:45

included. Nice. Very

1:09:48

cool. Oh, and before we get to a story,

1:09:51

and we will, I'm sorry. Got

1:09:53

a new Spatz entry. Oh. Yep.

1:09:56

This comes... Motion. Should

1:09:58

we get motion up to speed on this? We'll get motion up to speed. up

1:10:00

to speed on spats real quick. Mocha spats

1:10:02

is a thing that's completely made up. It's

1:10:04

an acronym SP ATS

1:10:07

and it has to do with vehicles

1:10:11

that actors have piloted.

1:10:15

So in a movie right to get it as the new

1:10:17

eagles. Yes. Okay. Got it.

1:10:19

Got it. You have to have been on a

1:10:21

spaceship, a plane, an

1:10:24

automobile, a train and

1:10:26

a ship like a sailing vessel. That's the

1:10:29

space. Now it doesn't

1:10:31

have to be the same movie. Right. So like Brad

1:10:34

Pitt has

1:10:36

Brad Pitt been to space. Has he been? Oh

1:10:38

yeah. At Astra. Yeah. At Astra. Yeah. At Astra.

1:10:40

There you go. At Astra. Yeah.

1:10:44

So yeah, there are the classics

1:10:46

like the easy and easy spats

1:10:48

like Will Smith, Tom Hanks. Sure.

1:10:51

Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks not

1:10:53

only has a spats, but each of

1:10:55

the letters of the spats, there is

1:10:57

a movie just about that. You know

1:11:00

what I mean? Like he was in

1:11:02

a Captain Phillips, Sully, Apollo 13. And

1:11:04

we've had a few like say

1:11:07

single movie spats or single franchise

1:11:09

spats where someone's spats to the

1:11:11

character. So Kevin

1:11:14

over on Twitter, due to an

1:11:16

off forgotten, but classic children's film

1:11:19

from the eighties explorers, Ethan

1:11:21

Hawke, new spats member. Explorers.

1:11:24

Yeah.