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1:32

["Cirque du Soleil"] Hello

1:38

and welcome to Psychic Teachers. I'm your

1:40

host Deb Bowen. And I'm Samantha Faye.

1:43

And we are so excited that you

1:45

have joined us this week to

1:47

talk about a topic, of course, that is near

1:49

and dear to both our hearts, but

1:51

mine perhaps for a little longer than it has

1:54

been for Samantha's. But

1:56

before we get started on that wonderful

1:58

topic of Tarot, need

2:00

to start with a moment of silence

2:02

please and send up some light

2:05

for our lovely friend Kat, who

2:08

owned a Facebook page called the

2:10

original Tarot on Point. If

2:13

you follow Kat's page, you know she

2:15

had lung cancer for some time. She was

2:17

very talkative about her

2:19

journey through lung cancer and

2:22

she died suddenly on June

2:24

9th and my heart is

2:26

just broken. Kat took my

2:28

introductory Tarot course back when I

2:30

taught in my living room. In

2:34

fact, we think that she and Samantha were in the

2:36

same class together and we think the year was 2007.

2:39

She taught me

2:41

so very much. Kat was the person

2:43

who taught me that there

2:45

are many, many ways to work

2:47

with and relate to and fall in

2:49

love with Tarot. You didn't have to

2:51

just use them as a tool for

2:53

divination. In fact, Kat didn't. She,

2:55

for the most part, used her keys

2:58

in terms of learning about history and

3:00

myths and culture and just

3:02

wonderful how she evolved in

3:04

her Tarot journey. In addition

3:06

to that, she was

3:08

my guru in all

3:10

things social media. She walked

3:12

me through learning that whole

3:15

Facebook land madness and so

3:17

much more. I loved

3:19

her appreciation for music too and the

3:21

way she would take lyrics and

3:24

correlate them with different Tarot cards. Yeah,

3:26

she did do that for a while, didn't

3:29

she? Yeah, it was really beautiful. She sure

3:31

did. Yeah, Kat really loves some music. So

3:33

if you all are Stevie Nicks fans, play

3:37

a Stevie Nicks song in honor of Kat at some

3:39

point this week, please. And she kind of looks like

3:41

her. Oh yeah, oh yeah,

3:43

she and she dressed like her. I

3:45

mean, she could have been mistaken for

3:48

Stevie Nicks. But anyway,

3:50

she's an amazing woman and I'm

3:52

honored to call her my friend. So let's

3:56

hold her in light, shall we? Yes.

4:00

So this episode is an honor of Kat and

4:02

an honor of all the Tarot teachers who

4:04

have paved the way for all of us

4:07

who love Tarot and its symbols so much.

4:09

Most of all, this episode is for you, who

4:12

want to dip your toe into learning the

4:14

meaning of Tarot and its symbols, but

4:17

may be hesitant to do so. So you

4:20

want to start off Samantha? Sure.

4:22

So the richness, the mystery of Tarot

4:24

symbols are what draw most of us

4:26

to this arcane tool. Even

4:29

the language of Tarot is mysterious.

4:31

Words like arcana, wands, cups,

4:33

swords, pentacles, Celtic cross spread.

4:35

And who is this being

4:37

called the fool? And

4:39

what or who is a hierophant? Should

4:42

you be frightened of the death or devil cards?

4:44

And who are these angels? And of course, there's

4:46

more. So most of you

4:48

who are listening to psychic teachers podcasts

4:50

know that I've been teaching Tarot for

4:53

more than 40 years. And you know

4:55

that Samantha and I met when she took my course,

4:57

we can't remember when but we think it was 2007,

4:59

as I said. So if you've

5:02

taken a Tarot course with me, or

5:05

any course really, or are currently

5:07

enrolled in myself paced Tarot

5:09

course, then you know how

5:11

much I love and respect the symbolism

5:13

found on Tarot. And while

5:15

there are some aspects of Tarot that

5:17

are overtly as they appear to be,

5:20

that is not the case with much

5:22

of the information that appears on the

5:24

cards. It's the layers

5:26

and layers of symbolism that

5:29

give Tarot the its richness. If

5:32

you're working with a deck for divination, knowing

5:34

the depth of symbolism will enhance

5:36

the information you glean for your

5:39

readings so much. And

5:41

if you're working with the keys as they're

5:43

rightly called, not cards, for meditation

5:45

or inspiration or journaling or a

5:48

zillion other things that you could be doing

5:50

and working with these keys, you will find

5:52

that that the deck enhances

5:54

those activities as well.

5:58

So tell us about the history of Tarot Samantha. Sure,

6:01

well, it's kind of a difficult summation

6:03

because we don't actually know the beginnings

6:05

of tarot. But many

6:07

scholars believe it originated in India

6:10

in some form many centuries ago.

6:13

Theorists believe the Romani people brought

6:15

tarot from India, down across Asia

6:17

Minor, Egypt, and then westward through

6:20

Europe. Some of the earliest

6:22

texts we know about were found in Italy in the

6:24

late 1300s and 1400s and

6:27

may have been created for wealthy families. Again,

6:30

perhaps as entertainment or in likeness of

6:32

various family members to honor them. Remember,

6:35

these decks were drawn and painted by

6:38

hand on a variety of mediums. There

6:40

was no mass marketing like we have today. For

6:43

example, a deck of what is now

6:45

called the Visconti Trumps was created for

6:47

the Visconti's Farza family. There

6:49

is some indication that the fact that

6:52

there are 22 cards in the major

6:54

arcana are attributed to correlations with the

6:56

number 22 in this family. In

7:00

1650, the Tarot of Merci was

7:02

created and most of it is on display

7:04

in France. This deck is

7:06

considered to be the foundation of tarot as

7:08

we know it today. Some

7:11

evidence indicates that during the Middle Ages,

7:13

tarot was a tool used to hide

7:15

esoteric knowledge in plain sight. The

7:17

court jesters and troubadours protected such

7:19

knowledge, perhaps even the whereabouts of

7:22

the Holy Grail in the symbols

7:24

of tarot. Between

7:26

1650 and 1900, many

7:29

decks were created and tarot became

7:31

linked with mysticism and esoteric thought

7:33

from many cultures around the world.

7:36

Then in 1910, A.E. Waite

7:38

commissioned visionary artist Pamela Coleman-Smith to

7:40

create his now famous deck, which

7:42

is based generally on the Merci

7:45

deck. Today there is

7:47

a great controversy about how much Pixie was

7:49

paid for her work and how much say

7:51

she had in creating their artwork. There

7:54

is an active movement to rename this deck

7:56

the Waite-Smith deck. It's still

7:58

considered the gold standard of Tarot. symbolism.

8:01

And there are hundreds, thousands of decks

8:03

available these days. Many of them are

8:05

beautiful and deeply meaningful and Deb and

8:08

I own a lot of them. Our

8:10

discussion in this episode and in

8:13

Deb's courses focuses on the classic

8:15

Waite-Smith deck and its symbols that

8:17

are so steeped in history and

8:20

culture. Deb, hasn't Joel

8:22

bought you some ancient decks through

8:24

the years for birthday and Christmas

8:26

gifts? He has indeed. Absolutely. I

8:28

have several really old decks

8:30

that Joel has found for me and I'm

8:33

very grateful to have those. I just want to point out

8:36

one interesting little thing here and I'll come back to that.

8:39

The deck that we are talking about for

8:41

over a hundred years has been called

8:44

the Waite Rider deck and the

8:46

name of the deck was because of A.E. Waite who

8:48

created it of course, sort

8:51

of, and the Rider

8:53

Publishing Company. So the publisher got half

8:55

of the credit for this deck and

8:57

Pixie, as she was better known, Pamela

9:00

Coleman-Smith, was left out of the equation

9:02

overtly for a very long time

9:05

and I love the fact that

9:07

there is a movement to really

9:09

honor her and her work and

9:12

to really dive into how much

9:15

of her work on

9:18

creating this deck was

9:20

from herself and not from instruction from

9:23

Waite. She really was quite mystical herself

9:25

in many ways. She was paid

9:27

a pittance. She died in

9:29

abject poverty and is buried in Cornwall,

9:31

by the way. She's just,

9:34

I just really want to be sure that we

9:36

will take a moment to honor the artist as

9:38

well as the writer of this

9:40

deck, the A.E. Waite as well. So

9:44

this deck, as Samantha is pointing

9:46

out to us, is so

9:49

steeped in incredible

9:53

world cultures and histories and

9:55

mythologies. That's really the

9:57

thing I love the most about to wrote. I

10:00

truly believe that if we come

10:03

together and look

10:05

at our world through the lens of

10:07

our similarities and our connections, it would

10:09

be a really great thing. So

10:12

this deck particularly includes

10:15

symbols from Christianity,

10:18

Judaism, Hinduism, Roman,

10:20

Greek, and Egyptian mythology, Celtic

10:23

mythologies, and esoteric

10:25

thoughts and theories such as

10:27

numerology, sacred geometry, chakra work,

10:30

astrology, and so much more

10:33

all come together to

10:35

create both the foundation and

10:38

the mysteries that make tarot

10:40

tarot. It is

10:42

this richness of blending of cultures

10:44

and beliefs that speak so, so

10:46

deeply to me. By

10:49

definition, what makes tarot

10:52

tarot as opposed to what we

10:54

now have as modern oracle decks

10:58

is its structure. True

11:00

tarot is composed of 78 keys

11:05

divided into two overarching

11:07

sections. The

11:09

major arcana from

11:11

the word arcane meaning hidden has

11:13

22 keys and it tells several stories,

11:18

one of which is the

11:20

story of the fool's journey

11:23

to enlightenment. Rather than

11:25

thinking about the fool as being foolish, think

11:27

of the fool as being innocent

11:29

and excited and exuberant

11:31

to begin this new phase of

11:34

the fool's life. The

11:36

other section, the minor arcana,

11:38

has four suits, wands,

11:41

cups, swords, and pentacles, and

11:43

those four suits became our modern

11:46

playing card. What happened over time

11:49

is that the fool key from the major arcana

11:52

became the joker and

11:54

the pages and nights of those four

11:56

suits collapsed into one key

11:58

called the joker. Jack in the

12:01

modern playing cards. One

12:03

of the things that I think is

12:05

important here when we talk about tarot

12:08

structure, these 78 keys, two sections, major

12:10

arcana and minor arcana is that the

12:12

language makes us think one is more

12:15

important than the other, major arcana more

12:17

important than minor arcana. And

12:19

I disagree with that. I

12:22

think that every key in the deck is there

12:24

for a reason and that they

12:26

all have importance and

12:29

valid information to share with us, including

12:32

their position when they are reversed in

12:34

a reading. I agree. I think

12:36

that the minor arcana is the

12:38

fullness and the richness. It gives you a

12:41

breadth and a depth to the reading. That's

12:43

why I'm not a big fan of the

12:45

Marseille deck because the minor arcana keys and

12:48

that deck don't have a lot on them. And

12:50

that's true actually for, as we

12:52

were talking about other decks in general, a while

12:55

ago. I

12:57

got so excited some years ago about

13:00

a new deck that came out and

13:02

I rushed to buy it. And

13:04

it was packaged very nicely. The

13:07

picture on the cover of the box was very nice. And

13:10

I opened it up. And

13:14

inside were the most boring

13:16

cards I'd ever seen, particularly

13:18

with the minor arcana. Whereas

13:20

in the minor arcana in the Waite-Smith

13:22

deck, there's such richness. I'm

13:25

thinking, for example, as I'm talking, I'm seeing the

13:27

six of cups in my mind, the lovely

13:30

young people standing there with the cups with

13:32

the lovely castle and

13:34

background and flowers and so forth. And the

13:36

deck that I'm referring to, that I bought

13:38

that I was so disappointed in, the six

13:40

of cups just had six cups on it. I

13:43

had bought so many decks like

13:45

that early on before social media

13:47

and YouTube. You really didn't know

13:49

what was inside them. No,

13:51

you didn't. And that was such

13:53

a pet peeve of mine. Now, when

13:56

you go into metaphysical stores, most

13:58

of them will have a copy. be open,

14:00

which I really appreciate. I

14:03

do too. I know that's true in local bookstores here,

14:05

is that the decks that they sell have

14:07

an open one that you can actually look

14:09

at all the cards as you go through

14:12

them. Really important. I do too. All

14:14

right, so let's talk about some of the

14:16

symbols in the deck that are often the

14:18

most perplexing, particularly to people

14:20

just beginning their tarot journey. And

14:23

probably the one that produces the

14:25

most fear to the uninitiated is

14:27

the death card. How many

14:30

times has someone said, oh, I don't want to get

14:32

the death card? And usually

14:34

what Deb will say is, I know

14:36

she has said this to me when I was learning, oh,

14:38

I hope you do, because that will give

14:40

an opportunity to teach you the deeper

14:43

meaning of that key. And

14:45

so death will often show up in those readings

14:47

where people are like, no, no, no, I don't

14:49

want to see that card. I

14:51

know I had that feeling so

14:54

much early on until I learned

14:56

what that card really means. Do

14:59

you want to talk about what it means in general

15:01

and to you? Absolutely. And we

15:03

could go on and on and

15:05

on about how we bring to

15:07

bear in our perspective

15:09

of the symbolism on the keys,

15:12

our own history, our own culture,

15:14

our own beliefs. And

15:16

what I would invite folks to do is to

15:18

just put those aside and

15:20

really look at how

15:22

that key evolved and how it

15:24

might be seen from other perspectives.

15:26

The death key, the tower key,

15:28

the devil, those cards are always

15:30

really scary to people. And I

15:32

always say, oh no, these are

15:34

our greatest teachers. So I

15:37

often say that the death key should

15:39

be renamed the resurrection or the renewal key.

15:42

It sometimes appears in a reading

15:45

or in a meditation when

15:47

the querent, that's the term that's used for those

15:49

who are actually working with the keys, needs

15:53

to release or let go of something that

15:55

is not for that person's highest good. It

15:58

is truly only. when we let go of

16:01

that which does not serve us, that we make

16:03

room in our lives for something new to come

16:05

in. If we hold on

16:08

so tightly to things that are not good

16:10

for us, there's no space for something new.

16:12

So we need to let that old stuff

16:14

die away. Yeah, it

16:17

usually means an ending is coming so

16:19

that a new beginning can appear. The

16:22

card that usually does mean

16:24

something kind of not so great is

16:26

coming is the Tower card. Do you

16:28

agree with that? Well,

16:32

it depends on your definition of great. I

16:34

mean, there have certainly been times in my

16:36

life where I felt

16:38

like the world was just coming to an end

16:41

and life was toppling and all sorts

16:43

of things were going on that

16:45

were really frightening in some way to me. And

16:49

you work your way through it. You

16:53

figure out a way, whatever the situation

16:55

is, that you indeed can come out

16:57

on the other side. I

16:59

remember I recently

17:02

was arranging hundreds

17:04

of CDs in my collection.

17:07

And I have a set of

17:10

CDs converted from cassette tape to

17:12

CDs. I said, but they're still rolling their

17:14

eyes and even that's old now I know. But

17:16

I did that. Cassette tapes were when I had

17:18

had readings with several psychics many

17:21

years ago. And one of them was

17:23

that wonderful woman that I love so much who's now gone, whose

17:26

name is Marion Starnes, who was explaining to

17:29

me about that I could be reading to

17:31

Robe. And she said to

17:33

me, if the

17:35

Tower card appears, what's most important

17:37

to know is we

17:40

build a new. And

17:42

when I listened to her, I listened to the CD the other

17:44

day after, you know, some years

17:46

of not having heard it. And when

17:48

she said that, I thought, wow, that

17:51

has always been true. There is always a

17:53

way to build a new. And

17:56

that's the bottom line message

17:58

of the Tower key. Once again,

18:00

there's a positive spin on it. Going back

18:02

to the Fool's Journey to Enlightenment, I mean,

18:05

what's the card that comes after the tower?

18:08

Is it the star? It is

18:10

the star. It's the star card,

18:12

which reminds us that after you

18:14

have that not so great period

18:16

in your life, you

18:18

have this moment of light

18:21

and balance and time to have

18:23

that renewal. And

18:26

a reminder that you are responsible for

18:28

aligning those chakras and making that happen.

18:31

You build anew. Yeah, indeed. Back

18:34

to the death card here for a minute. In my

18:36

self-paced story, of course, it is ongoing that you

18:38

can sign up for any time. I

18:40

teach all the minute images

18:42

in this key. And

18:45

I invite students to really

18:47

pay attention to some of

18:49

the symbols that reinforce the

18:51

notion of renewal in

18:53

our lives. For example,

18:56

one of the things that often gets overlooked in the death

18:58

key is that flowing river behind

19:01

the horse. That's that

19:04

same water that started as snow

19:06

on the mountaintop in the Fool

19:08

key. And the water is continuing

19:10

to move, reminding that there is

19:13

always continuity and transition in our

19:15

lives. In the

19:17

background, there are two towers

19:20

that reappear on several different

19:22

keys that represent connection

19:25

to something bigger than ourselves

19:27

and rising between those

19:29

two towers is a sign.

19:32

There's, again, there's so much hope on that.

19:35

And the banner that the death key carries is

19:40

a five-pointed rose. That's

19:42

one of those symbols that we

19:44

think may take us back to the

19:46

Middle Ages in connection to the

19:48

Holy Grail. It just goes on and on and

19:51

on the layers. I just love it. So

19:53

would you say there are evil or

19:55

dark cards in the tarot? No.

20:00

How's that for a quick short answer?

20:02

But let me embellish a little bit.

20:05

Okay, there is nothing inherently evil in

20:07

tarot as it was originally envisioned. Now

20:10

there are however difficult lessons, and

20:12

some of these lessons are not necessarily ones we

20:15

want to learn. You take

20:17

the devil key, for example, which is one of the other

20:19

keys that really frightens people because

20:21

of that Western thought of

20:23

what that devil means that

20:26

key is really all about choices. That

20:28

it represents aspects of ourselves or

20:30

situations in our lives that

20:33

need to be changed, and that we

20:35

are either unwilling or unable

20:37

or believe we're unable to change those

20:41

chains around the figures next that are chained to

20:43

that block that the devil is stretched

20:46

on. Look how loose they

20:48

are. And I know folks are rolling their

20:50

eyes because they know what I'm getting ready

20:52

to say, because I've said it so many

20:54

times on this show, and back to cat

20:56

and her connection to music and and

20:58

to row. I will say

21:00

that's true for me too. And this is when the

21:02

Eagles start playing in my head. Oftentimes

21:05

it happens that we live our lives and change and

21:07

never even know we hold the key. And

21:09

I have many others of those but that's, but that's

21:11

just one. Conversely,

21:14

to the keys that that frighten us. And

21:16

if you can get work your way through those and and

21:19

get asked the

21:23

stories that we really are probably many of us brought

21:25

up with about the stereotypes of

21:27

those images. There are some

21:29

beautiful, gentle keys in

21:32

the deck. Yeah, so

21:34

let's look at for example the beautiful gentle

21:36

high priestess key. Here we see

21:38

the coming together of beliefs myths and

21:41

cultures from around the world and across

21:43

time to reinforce the meaning of the

21:45

key. For example, we

21:47

see the equal arms solar cross on her

21:49

breastplate. She holds the scroll

21:52

of the Hebraic Torah in her arms, and

21:54

her chair is flanked by two pillars from

21:56

the Hebrew Temple of Solomon. And

21:59

here we see the back pillar of Boaz. represents negative life

22:01

force, the white pillar of

22:03

Jachin. Am I saying that right?

22:06

There's various ways of saying it, Joaquin,

22:09

Jachin. Okay. Represents

22:11

positive life force. And the pomegranates

22:13

on the veil are from the

22:15

Greek myth of Persephone and Demeter.

22:18

The crown on the high priestess's

22:20

head represents the Egyptian goddess Hathor

22:22

and Isis. The high

22:24

priestess is symbolic of virgin,

22:27

meaning one under herself goddesses

22:29

of many cultures, including Greek

22:31

and Roman virgin goddesses such

22:33

as Diana, Artemis, and Athena.

22:36

So this is just one example

22:39

of the overarching lessons

22:41

that Tarot offers us.

22:45

Something that I like to do a lot, Deb,

22:47

too, is to look at the

22:49

symbols on a card and then

22:51

find those symbols in

22:54

the other cards and try to

22:56

see how they're used in that

22:58

card and how I can draw

23:01

similarities. So like, for example,

23:03

if you're doing a reading for someone and you do like

23:05

a Celtic cross spread, I

23:08

think it's so important to be comfortable

23:10

enough to sit for a while in

23:12

silence as you just stare at those

23:14

cards because you want to

23:17

look at so much. You want to look at

23:19

the color, you want to look at the placement,

23:21

what's reversed, but you also want to look at

23:24

any common themes that are popping up in terms

23:26

of the symbols on all of the cards in

23:28

front of you. Absolutely,

23:31

you do. One

23:34

of the ways that I teach students to

23:37

learn the intent and the symbolism on

23:40

keys is to do exactly what you've

23:42

said. For example, I will say lay

23:44

all the cards out and go through

23:46

and find all

23:48

of those double towers, all

23:51

those columns, find all

23:53

the horses.

23:55

They all mean something, and then there are

23:57

different positions. Go through and look.

24:00

look for all of those. Find

24:02

the red feather. That red feather on the

24:04

fool's cap appears two more times in the

24:06

deck. Where and why?

24:08

And the more you begin to group

24:10

those symbols together, the

24:13

better you can learn them. Yeah.

24:16

And if I'm doing a reading for someone, rather

24:19

than telling them right away what

24:21

I'm seeing and feeling, I

24:24

like to ask them, hey,

24:26

what color do you see predominantly on

24:28

this board? And

24:30

usually they'll go, there's a lot of gray. I'm

24:32

like, yeah, that's because you're still very confused about

24:35

this decision and that's okay. The tarot is just

24:37

reflecting that to you. What figure

24:39

or image stands out to you the

24:41

most? And I think it's, to

24:43

me, I find it helpful when you're doing

24:46

a reading to kind of invite the queer

24:48

into the interpretation of the cards, rather than

24:51

having them sit passively as you just tell

24:53

them everything. In my

24:57

introductory to divination tarot,

25:00

course, it's entitled, Unlocking the

25:02

Mysteries of Tarot. In that course, I have

25:04

a checklist that

25:06

I teach students to use that

25:08

they can, as they become more practiced,

25:10

that they can do it much more

25:13

quickly, but it's to do a checklist

25:15

of what do you see before you ever say a

25:18

word to the querit after you've laid out the

25:20

cross or whatever pattern

25:23

you're using. And you

25:25

think exactly that. What are the predominant colors?

25:28

What numbers are you seeing? How many

25:30

court cards are there? Just

25:33

a list of things that you just know,

25:35

help you learn and for

25:37

yourself and inform the information that

25:39

you're getting from that reading. Yeah,

25:43

and it might sound like a lot, but

25:45

like anything that you learn, in the beginning, you're

25:47

gonna move slowly through it and that's okay, but

25:50

eventually it's going to become like second nature and

25:52

you're just gonna pull those out. You're gonna go,

25:54

oh, wow, there's more of these and

25:56

there's a lot of this color and this is what

25:58

that means. So I think it's important. to remember

26:00

that you're not going to learn this

26:02

overnight, but you will learn it and

26:05

it will start to become a part

26:07

of your intuitive toolbox. Absolutely.

26:09

I will tell you this. I

26:13

believe many things about Tarot, but

26:15

one of the things I believe is

26:17

that if you really love it and work with

26:20

it, you never stop learning.

26:22

When I teach my intro

26:25

class, I tell my students the

26:27

one thing I promised them isn't

26:29

that they'll learn to row. The one thing I

26:32

promised them is that I will learn something

26:34

new with every class. Here's

26:36

an example. Several

26:39

courses ago, I had

26:42

a student who said, Deb, do you see the

26:44

Hebrew word in the folds

26:46

of the gown of the figure in

26:48

the temperance key? And I said, no, what?

26:50

What are you talking about? She said, blow it up.

26:54

And as clear as day, when

26:56

you really blow it up and look at

26:58

it, there's the Hebrew

27:01

word for Yahweh. That

27:03

is so cool. It is cool. I

27:06

mean, just this, it just goes

27:09

on and on and on and on. The

27:11

learning never stops with this particular deck, I

27:13

will have to say. So, so there's

27:15

we go. Well, let's take a

27:17

quick break. And when we come back,

27:19

let's talk about some of the overarching

27:21

lessons that Tarot is waiting to teach

27:23

us. I'm

27:28

so honored that so many of

27:30

you are enrolled in my self-paced

27:32

Tarot course. It's entitled

27:35

The Fool's Calling. It's never too

27:37

late to register and you can begin

27:39

whenever you'd like. This

27:41

course helps you to understand your

27:44

own life journey through the symbols,

27:46

myths, cultures, and beliefs of traditional

27:48

Tarot. Each week

27:50

for 38 weeks, you

27:53

get an in-depth lesson about

27:55

the cards as we make our way

27:57

from the Fool through the Minor Arboretum.

28:00

Kanna Keys. So details about

28:02

this are on my website

28:04

debbowen.com. And plan ahead

28:07

for my offerings coming in August.

28:10

I'll teach my Unlocking the Mysteries of

28:12

Tarot course again. This is

28:14

my course that teaches divination methods.

28:17

And I've heard your request

28:19

for my Crow Nose course

28:22

again, which will have updated

28:24

materials. And finally, I hope you will

28:26

subscribe to my free newsletter,

28:28

which is packed full of

28:31

interesting information and upcoming events.

28:33

Thanks so very much. Welcome

28:39

back. So Deb, do you want to talk

28:41

about what you feel are some of the

28:43

main lessons that Tarot is here and ready

28:45

and willing to offer us? Absolutely.

28:48

And I've touched on this briefly, but it

28:50

just bears repeating. Tarot

28:52

teaches us that when we explore

28:55

our similarities and realize that

28:58

our similarities as human beings

29:00

are far more prevalent than

29:02

our differences, we can

29:04

find common ground. We can find a way

29:07

to learn from each other and to teach each other.

29:10

Tarot is a perfect vehicle for

29:12

bringing us to a place of

29:14

deep abiding connection in our lives.

29:17

If we are willing to learn from each other. I

29:20

remember years ago saying

29:22

to my students

29:24

on a trip to the reservation, and I

29:26

said, you know, the two most powerful words

29:29

in the English language are teach me. When

29:32

you say that to someone who's different

29:35

from you, the world

29:37

is a different place. And I think Tarot

29:39

gives us a melting pot for that. I

29:42

think Tarot always teaches us that we have hope. The

29:46

keys remind us over and over and

29:48

over again, that change

29:50

is possible, that there is

29:52

always a way forward. There is

29:54

always and always will be an ever

29:57

turning wheel of promise and hope. Just

30:00

if you spend time with the wheel of fortune

30:02

key, for example, you can see

30:04

that so incredibly clearly.

30:08

Tarot is also a vehicle for symbols

30:10

in other ways connected to world

30:12

beliefs, myths and cultures. For

30:14

example, Tarot is filled with and

30:17

in some ways has become synonymous

30:19

with the concept of art types.

30:22

And we can talk about the full key here. You want to jump

30:24

us off on that one, Samantha? Yes, I

30:27

love the full card. It's this

30:29

card. Now the gender is unknown. And

30:33

so it's just this image of

30:35

an every person who's embarking on

30:37

a journey of self-discovery or enlightenment.

30:40

The fool can be like a Harry

30:42

Potter, a Luna Lovegood, a Don Quixote

30:44

or a Deb Bowen. I

30:46

love the full card because you've got the image

30:48

of this person and he's got his faithful

30:50

little loyal dog behind him. He has

30:53

everything he needs in his knapsack. And

30:55

you don't really know, is he

30:58

jumping off that cliff or

31:00

is he jumping over the cliff

31:03

and do a brand new chapter? And

31:06

I love that possibility that's there.

31:08

Everything is in that card. Indeed

31:12

it is. And when you look at the colors

31:15

there, except for one shoe, I

31:19

have never found anything in the

31:21

deck that is there by

31:23

accident. Everything has meaning right down

31:25

to the pumpkin and the snail

31:27

on various keys in the corner.

31:31

One of the questions I often get asked is

31:33

what is that little scribbly looking thing on the

31:36

corner of every key? That's pixie signature.

31:39

But everything has meaning. The colors of

31:41

the flowers matter. The kinds of flowers.

31:43

Are they roses or are they irises?

31:46

Is there a myrtle tree or a cedar

31:49

tree? All of those

31:51

have meanings. How many stars are

31:53

in the empress's crown? Why

31:55

is the empress sitting on

31:57

a throne with ram's heads on it?

32:00

What is the meaning of the scales and

32:02

the justice key? Is the

32:05

woman on the strength key opening or

32:07

closing the lion's mouth? We will never

32:09

know the answer to that. And that's

32:11

a part of the importance of

32:13

that key. It just goes on and

32:15

on and on. The weather, the season

32:18

depicted in the background of the

32:20

card, the placement of the feet, if

32:23

it's in water or on dry land. So what

32:25

were you going to say about the full shoe?

32:28

No, it was not the full shoe. And

32:31

I can never remember. It's a minor arcana

32:33

key. There is one figure

32:36

where the figure is wearing two different

32:38

shoes. And

32:41

I have never been able to find an

32:43

explanation for that that I felt was a

32:45

valid explanation from any reputable

32:48

source. But I

32:50

don't know whether she was just busy and quick. You know,

32:52

one of the things that I have to remember is that

32:54

these cards were

32:57

paintings. Pixie painted

32:59

paintings of these. These are paintings

33:01

and nobody knows where the paintings went.

33:04

Really? They're not in a museum somewhere? There

33:07

is no original paintings. Wow. We

33:10

don't know. Yeah, Steve Kaplan

33:13

writes about that in his Tarot Encyclopedia.

33:16

It's just fascinating. So each

33:18

of these figures is an art type

33:21

in some way. The Hermit,

33:23

for example. I mean, we

33:25

all know who Hermit figures

33:27

are. Gandalf, Dumbledore, Yoda. These

33:30

are wise figures. Debouin. Samantha

33:33

Fay. And

33:37

then in that need

33:39

to talk, not just about major

33:41

arcana folks, but minor arcana folks,

33:44

each of the suits, which are

33:47

by the way, why are in the pouch

33:49

that the fool is carrying on

33:51

that stick as the fool goes

33:53

forth on this journey. Each

33:56

of those four suits is connected to

33:58

a compass. direction, an

34:00

element, a season, a color, various

34:02

animal people, various human traits. Take

34:05

for example the suit of wands. In

34:08

the Waitsmith deck, every

34:10

single key in the wand suit, all

34:12

14 of them, have

34:14

green buds sprouting from the wands,

34:17

an indication of growth and

34:19

change and learning and

34:22

action in our lives. So

34:24

given that, it might stand to

34:26

reason that wands are connected to

34:28

the compass direction of south, the

34:31

element of fire, the color

34:33

red, the season of

34:35

summer, connected with heat-seeking

34:38

animals such as snakes and lizards and

34:41

salamanders. It's

34:43

about movement, it's about growth and change.

34:45

And so you know that when wands

34:48

show up in a reading

34:50

or in your meditation, that there's

34:53

a new opportunity to

34:55

learn and to do and to be active

34:57

in some way connected to

34:59

whatever your question may be. That's

35:01

true with the

35:03

other three suits as well. Another

35:07

way to approach the symbolism in the

35:09

minor arcana is to examine the court

35:11

keys. Now for many

35:13

who are just learning to row, these four

35:15

keys of each suit are the most difficult

35:18

components of the deck. They

35:21

still are for me in some way. Sometimes I still

35:23

don't know how to interpret them when they show up.

35:25

You know, is it a person? Is it an aspect

35:28

of you? When you're trying

35:30

to develop your divination skills, it'd be

35:32

helpful if there weren't so many possible

35:34

meanings of the keys, particularly these court

35:37

keys. However, this is not

35:39

the case. For example,

35:41

when the Queen of Cup appears, does

35:43

she represent the querent regardless of the

35:46

querent's gender? Does she represent a woman

35:48

in the querent's energy field like a

35:50

mother, sister, friend? Does she

35:52

represent the archetype of the intuitive introspective

35:54

person? Does she represent deep emotion or

35:57

does she stand for a treat related

35:59

to the querent? to royalty? Does

36:01

it matter where she's positioned in the spread?

36:04

And to complicate matters, the answer to

36:06

any of these questions is, yeah, maybe.

36:09

There are many factors that influence

36:11

your answer to all keys in

36:13

a spread. I think, Deb,

36:15

and you might disagree because you're such a traditionalist

36:17

with the tarot, but I do think this is

36:19

where your intuition has to come in. Okay,

36:22

that's one way to look at it. Another

36:25

way to look at it is to

36:27

ask. You know, there's always

36:31

this thing, and particularly folks who are just beginning

36:33

to learn this, where you feel like you've always

36:35

got to be right, and you've got to know,

36:37

and you've got to be on it,

36:39

and you've got to be... Know

36:42

all the answers. Absolutely. It's okay

36:44

to ask. And so, and

36:47

maybe this is the teacher in me

36:49

again, but if I'm doing a reading

36:51

and the queen of cups shows up in

36:53

the future position, for example, I

36:56

may say to the person in front of me, this

36:59

queen of cups can represent several

37:02

things. And I explain all of

37:04

what I just said, what you've

37:06

just said. And I will say,

37:08

does any of that resonate with

37:10

you? And a lot of times the person

37:13

will know exactly who that key

37:15

represents for her, him or her in this

37:17

reading. And she's likely to say, oh,

37:19

you know, that is my mother-in-law, and

37:22

she just is this wonderful

37:24

person who does blah, blah, blah. I'm worried about

37:26

her health and so forth. She knows who it is.

37:29

The quarant knows. That's a

37:31

really good point. It reminds me of one

37:33

of my favorite Chinese proverbs that says, he

37:36

who asks a question is a fool

37:38

for a minute. He who never asks

37:40

a question is a fool forever. That's

37:43

right. So I often, I will ask, and I

37:45

will say, these are the possible meanings, and this

37:47

is the position the card is in. Does this

37:49

resonate for you in any way? I

37:52

almost always the quarant knows who that person is,

37:54

or whether it's a part of themselves. I know.

37:57

So we mentioned earlier the connection

37:59

between Tarot and other metaphysical

38:01

concepts. For example, so important

38:04

to pay attention to the numerology

38:06

in Tarot. It's no accident that

38:08

the solid, dependable, stable emperor is

38:10

the key four, or that

38:12

the image of a square and a triangle,

38:14

which together are seven, is the symbol of

38:17

Tarot, and that this symbol

38:19

appears on the temperance key 14. There

38:22

are images of sacred geometry in the

38:24

keys as well, most notably on the

38:26

three of pentacles and the five of

38:29

pentacles. I think learning

38:31

the numbers, Deb, also helps with

38:33

understanding, especially the minor arcana. You

38:37

look at the two of cups, and it's two

38:39

people coming together over

38:41

that one cup, and so you know

38:43

it's a card about partnership and love

38:45

and union. We know

38:48

that the number two is about partnership

38:50

and love and union and balance. So

38:53

I think that's a really great way to

38:55

start, because for people who are really new

38:57

to Tarot, I think listening to us right

38:59

now is probably making their head spin a

39:01

little. I

39:04

hope what it's doing is making them say, I want to learn all

39:06

that stuff. True.

39:12

Let's talk about some of the

39:14

connections between Tarot and astrology and

39:16

Tarot and the Kabbalah, which is

39:19

way more complex than we have

39:21

time to delve into in this episode, but can

39:23

you give us kind of a brief overview? Probably

39:26

not very well, in all honesty,

39:29

but I will tell you this,

39:31

that there are certainly folks who

39:33

do understand how to connect to

39:36

Row and astrology and do readings,

39:38

for example, rather than laying out

39:41

the 10 keys in the Celtic cross-sale

39:43

layout 12 and look at the various

39:47

houses of the zodiac to connect

39:50

with the keys. And there are

39:52

zodiac symbols on

39:54

the keys, for example, in the

39:57

Wheel of Fortune. and

40:00

key, those four animal

40:03

people being people in the

40:05

corners of that key represent the four cardinal

40:09

signs of the zodiac. So

40:11

there's a lot of that woven into it. Lots

40:14

of connections between Turo and Kabbalah. And

40:17

Samantha, I have tried. And

40:19

learning Kabbalah is like water going through

40:21

a colander for me. So I will just

40:23

say that there are folks who do it, there are books about it.

40:26

I am not your girl for that. Yeah, I've

40:28

tried to. I love studying it, though. It

40:30

just doesn't really stick in my head. No,

40:33

mine either. So here's

40:35

some other ways you can work with Turo,

40:37

other than divination. And I've talked a little

40:39

bit about this, but sit with them and

40:41

use them in meditation. Just sit with a

40:44

key and really look at it. Look

40:46

at some of the more obscure objects on the

40:48

keys and in their backgrounds. For

40:51

example, find the snail, what's up with

40:53

that snail? What's up with the pumpkin?

40:55

Why does the

40:58

queen of wands have a

41:00

black cat at her feet? What is that about? No

41:03

one really knows the answer about those two shoes, as

41:05

I said, but use

41:08

a trusted guide. I mean, there are several

41:11

folks that we certainly recommend as

41:13

you've taken courses with me and

41:15

are currently taking one. You

41:17

know that I recommend Eden Gray's work. Her

41:20

work is classic in the history of Turo

41:22

and Teresa Reid, who is coming back on

41:24

our show. I'm so excited about that. Me

41:26

too. Oh, Teresa's work is just

41:29

a basic. So I certainly recommend her.

41:31

So really

41:33

use a valid source. Get

41:35

off of the world

41:37

of looking at videos on the

41:40

computer that might not be accurate

41:42

information. It's honestly about that. Talk

41:44

about Crystal's source with us, Samantha. Well,

41:47

that's a great way you can

41:49

combine your meditation of a

41:51

Turoki with a crystal. And

41:54

Deb, you have an e-booklet on your

41:56

website where you talk about correlating a

41:58

certain crystal a major

42:00

arcana key. So you can

42:03

hold a key card and it's

42:05

corresponding crystal at the same time.

42:07

And it can really open new

42:09

doors in your meditation. It's a

42:11

great tool to use as a

42:13

journal prompt. I think it's

42:15

a wonderful way. Like let's say, for example, I

42:18

follow a woman on Instagram, who's a

42:20

great potter up in the mountains of

42:22

North Carolina, and she'll often post how

42:24

she'll pull a Tarot key and use

42:27

it to inspire what she's going to

42:29

put and what she's going to create

42:31

on the pottery wheel that day, which

42:33

I think is so cool. That's wonderful.

42:36

So you just never really know what

42:39

you can do with the Tarot.

42:41

Sometimes I like to just say, what do

42:43

I need to know today and pull

42:46

a card? You can use them

42:48

in crystal grids, for example, if

42:50

you're trying to manifest a

42:52

brand new start, you could use

42:54

the full card in a crystal

42:56

grid about starting a brand new

42:59

chapter of your life. If you're

43:01

trying to manifest love, pull

43:03

out the lover's card and the two

43:05

of cups card, for example, and

43:07

put that in a crystal grid to help amp

43:10

up your manifestation. There are lots of

43:12

lots of different ways you can work

43:14

with the Tarot other than using it

43:16

for readings. Absolutely. I

43:18

just celebrated the summer solstice

43:21

and the full moon with a

43:23

group of folks, and we each

43:25

had created altars at our homes and took

43:27

pictures of them and shared them. Several

43:30

folks in the group had put

43:32

the sun key in

43:35

the foreground mixed with crystals

43:37

and flowers and some other things on their altars.

43:39

So that's another way to do it. Yeah.

43:44

One thing I love to do is color

43:46

the Tarot. There's lots of

43:48

great coloring books out there. There

43:50

are a lot of great coloring books out

43:52

there that are based on the Waitwriter Smith

43:55

deck. That's a wonderful way

43:57

to really get to know the intricacies of a

43:59

card. It's a lovely way to meditate

44:01

as well. And of

44:03

course, we always recommend that you

44:05

read, read about the tarot, but

44:07

also read about things that

44:11

work with tarot in

44:13

different ways. For

44:15

example, Deb mentioned earlier the connection to

44:17

the representation of the Greek myth of

44:19

Demeter and Persephone on the high priestess

44:21

key. Well, the more you

44:24

study mythology, the richer the tarot becomes

44:26

for you. Read Ken Follett's

44:28

The Pillars of the Earth to learn about

44:30

the building of the European cathedrals and sacred

44:32

geometry. Deb, that is still

44:35

one of my all-time favorite books. It's

44:37

ginormous, anyone who hasn't read it, but

44:39

I love it. I read

44:41

it three times throughout my adult life.

44:44

And if you have stars, they did

44:46

an adaptation, an adaptation of that book.

44:48

And I am such a snob about

44:51

movie or show at adaptions of books,

44:53

and that one was phenomenal. Anyway,

44:57

my digress. Okay, so

44:59

let's just wrap this up here, Samantha. Well,

45:01

can I wrap it up, Deb, by asking

45:03

if, okay, what I would like to do

45:05

is pick a card for our listeners. Sure.

45:09

And have you tell us about it. So

45:11

I'm gonna shuffle and ask, what

45:13

do our listeners need to know as

45:15

they go forth into their week? And

45:18

you tell me when to stop shuffling. All

45:20

right, let me take a deep breath. Okay. Okay,

45:24

stop. Okay. Stop

45:27

shuffling, I'm cutting. All

45:29

right, I have the king of

45:31

cups. Oh,

45:33

wow, all right. So remember

45:35

that cups are the suit

45:38

of intuition, of

45:41

introspection. Cups teach

45:43

us to go within into that

45:45

unconscious place in ourselves and

45:48

learn what may not be overt lessons.

45:51

So if you're working with the suit of

45:53

cups in general, then that

45:55

is an indication that, I

45:58

can't believe you've done this, Samantha. What

46:00

am I going to say next? Meditate, meditate, meditate,

46:02

right? Of course you're not going to say that.

46:05

But really to sit quietly and

46:08

let the flow of information

46:11

and intuition come to you. That's what

46:13

cups invite us to do. Cups

46:16

also invite us to go with the flow in our

46:18

lives. If we're coming up on

46:20

adversities or problem

46:23

situations in our lives, cups remind us that

46:25

there is always a flow, there is always

46:28

a rhythm and that we can

46:30

follow along with it. So he's

46:32

wearing a blue tunic and

46:34

a gold cape with this small fish

46:37

amulet thing around his neck. Right.

46:40

What does that symbolize? Okay, I'm getting there.

46:42

So the

46:44

blue is of course connected

46:46

not only to water and

46:48

intuition, but of course it's

46:50

also about how we speak.

46:53

It's throat chakra work. So

46:55

he is reminding us

46:57

to be careful of our words,

46:59

to speak clearly, to listen to

47:01

what is spoken to us. He

47:04

is a very kind and thoughtful

47:06

and methodical king. He is

47:09

not somebody who is impulsive in

47:11

any way. He is

47:13

truly listening and paying

47:15

attention. The fish

47:18

reminds us that in

47:20

one way, there are several ways of looking at the fish. For

47:23

one thing, that is a Christian symbol. And

47:25

so there's the notion there of

47:27

the connection to spirit through Christianity.

47:29

But the fish is also about

47:32

learning to live our lives in elements

47:34

different than the ones that we're used

47:36

to. That we really

47:38

can swim and evolve

47:40

in our lives in

47:43

ways that swim symbolically in our lives.

47:45

Let me just tell you what Eden

47:47

Gray says about him real quickly. She

47:50

says that this is a man who is

47:52

skilled in both law and

47:55

trades. He may be

47:57

connected with either a church or.

48:00

worldly institution. He is

48:02

kind and considerate and

48:04

willing to take responsibility.

48:07

I just love that about you

48:09

know, because he's sitting on this

48:11

like solid granite stone in the

48:13

middle of this pretty

48:15

rough sea it looks like you see

48:17

the monster in the background. Yeah. Yeah.

48:20

He looks like an eel or I wouldn't know

48:22

that I'd call him a monster. He's a little

48:24

more than a little monster guy. But

48:27

yeah, but he's on this throne and on

48:29

this solid piece of granite. So to me,

48:31

it's also about like using

48:33

your creativity and your connection to

48:36

your emotions and your intuition to

48:39

really overcome any turbulent times to it's

48:41

to me, it's like a symbol of

48:43

because he's got the scepter in one

48:45

hand and the cup in the other.

48:47

So it's about kind of, you

48:50

know, as empath, sometimes we can feel overwhelmed

48:52

by our emotion, but the king of cups

48:55

is kind of about being, being

48:57

in charge of your emotions in a way

48:59

that you use your empathy to really

49:02

feel grounded and sure of yourself

49:05

even during a stormy

49:07

sea time and balanced

49:09

Eden says he represents balance

49:11

and peace, arts

49:13

and sciences. And

49:16

I just I love that. Again,

49:18

once again, that overarching message of

49:20

balance and finding solid

49:23

ground and knowing that you will be

49:25

just fine because he is in the midst of that turbulent

49:27

sea with a sea monster on one side of him in

49:29

a ship that's probably in deep

49:31

trouble on the other side. He is

49:33

calm and cool and collected and he reminds

49:35

us we can be the same thing. Does

49:38

it matter that one foot is pointing

49:40

one way and another is pointing another

49:43

way? It might. I mean,

49:45

it almost looks like the foot in the foreground is

49:47

kind of dipping his toe almost yeah

49:50

water. And don't we do that every

49:52

day in our lives too? Yeah. I

49:55

mean, he is also us. So

49:57

if I were pulling this card as

49:59

a message for me for the week,

50:01

I would say it's a message to

50:03

stay in touch with your emotions

50:05

and your intuition, to

50:07

be honest and truthful with your

50:10

communication. To me, this

50:12

card's also a reminder to do something

50:14

creative this week, because cups

50:16

is always about emotions, but it's

50:19

also about creativity. And

50:21

I think it could also

50:23

be a message to some

50:25

listeners that a wonderful leader-type

50:28

person might be entering their life,

50:30

or you will be

50:32

that leadership person to someone

50:34

else going through a turbulent time. All

50:38

of the above. Isn't that great? I

50:40

love that. From a man sitting on a

50:42

chair in the middle of the water. There you go.

50:44

Really, there's so much depth that

50:46

we don't always see at

50:49

first glance. That is

50:51

so very true. Well, we

50:53

hope you guys have enjoyed this little

50:55

lockdown, Tarot symbolism. I know I have.

50:57

Thank you, Deb, for sharing your wisdom

51:00

of the cards with us once again.

51:03

My pleasure. I mean, good golly, you know, I could

51:06

go on and on and on and on. So there's

51:08

that. I know. And we're

51:10

so excited because next week we're going to have

51:12

Deborah Blake on the show. She's going to be

51:14

talking about her oracle deck of

51:17

the witches familiar and some of her new

51:19

books coming up. She hasn't been on our

51:21

show for a couple of years, so we're

51:23

super happy to have her back on. In

51:25

the meantime, we hope you have

51:28

a fantastic week. Be the light

51:30

for yourself and others. Take

51:32

care, everyone. Thank

51:40

you for listening to Psychic Teachers,

51:42

your podcast for seekers, lightworkers, mystics,

51:44

and magical thinkers. If you

51:47

like the show, please tell a friend or leave us

51:49

a review wherever you listen to your podcast. For

51:51

more information, check out our Facebook page,

51:53

Psychic Teachers, or our

51:56

websites, samanthafay.com and debbowen.com.

51:59

I have a new book out. called The Awake Dreamer,

52:01

Lucid Dreaming, Astel Travel, and Mastering

52:03

the Dreamscape. You can find

52:05

it wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening

52:08

and have a great week!